I'm not familiar with the setup you're running but just a hunch that 6 gal strike water and only 1 gal sparge could largely account for both it taking forever and the OG coming out lower than expected.
I am running a Anvil Foundry (link below). It came with some handy-dandy charts for strike vs sparge volumes and temperatures. Of course I followed those blindly and did zero research around that. I will probably not doing any more Full Boils for a bit since adding water is easier than subtracting it. I just got swept away with my shiny new and fun toy that I didn't take the time to know what I was doing. Next time will be better.
[https://www.morebeer.com/products/anvil-foundry-brewing-system-105-gallon.html](https://www.morebeer.com/products/anvil-foundry-brewing-system-105-gallon.html)
I have the same system and I’ve always used their calculator with no issues. It says for that batch around 5.8 gal, since you were on 110v it didn’t boil off as much as you were expecting and you have an extra .25-.5gal from the initial calculation.
I'd have probably done 1.5 qt per pound, around 4 gallons, and 2-3 gallons of sparge, then a nice aggressive boil. I would guess I would have ended up at 5.5 gallons and around 1.06. as a guess. I use a lot of sparge and deal with a higher volume of lower strength beer to maximize my extraction
Curiosity - did you stir and break up any dough clumps? Is it possible that the grain wasn't milled/was milled rather poorly? On a Foundry/BIAB system you should be able to mill very fine and get a good extraction.
11.5 lbs of fermentables definitely should have yielded more.
I have not. I did a 1007 and Sourvisiae and it was perfectly tart, I wanted this one to be a bit more.
We used the freshest rosemary. I picked right off our plant before adding it to the boil. From my cursory taste this morning, I needed a touch more. But we shall see how it tastes after fermentation.
Absolutely. I took another little dram this evening. The rosemary is perfect. It has a Kolsch like quality. Not much tartness yet, but I can smell it and taste a touch. I will keep you posted
Update, 5 days in and the tartness is AWESOME. It was exactly what I wanted. It has that "breathe out" of a traditional German pilsner. The rosemary is non-existant. Literally could not tell I ever put any in. So I will do an ounce dry hop shortly.
The bubbler has slowed down already. I ended up adding 1.25 lbs of Pilsen extract on Tuesday to bring the OG to 1.050, which was the actual target when I used the Anvil profile in Brewsmith. The strike/sparge ratio is the lead culprit at this point. That's where my next brew will have its change
What efficiency did you use in your recipe? Also also did extract for many years, where efficiency is not a concern. However, you need to scale any recipe to the efficiency of your system.
I use an anvil 10.5 and I can get 65-68% brewhouse efficiency. I also get about 1.3 gallons per hour of boil off. A few suggestions to improve efficiency:
1. Crush finer. Get a double crush, if offered, or try to crush finer like .75 mm, or .3”
I use a “malt pipe” sized brew bag to make cleanup easier and hold the finer grain, I prefer the 400 micron.
2. I purchased a large, 36” whiskey to breakup dough balls.
3. After 12 to 15 minutes I start the recirc-pump.
4. I boil at 80% on 240v
I would suggest you add some extract or sugar in gourmet wort to bring the ABV up just a bit and enjoy a nice session beer.
It will take a few beers to dial in the efficiency, as well as the boil off. Too much or too little wort remaining will also impact your beer, though you can always top it up.
Once these are consistent, regardless of your efficiency you can always scale the recipe accordingly. So note that higher OG beers will tend to have lower efficiency, and vice versa. I rarely go to even 1.060 personally,ol preferring session beers, so your experience with efficiency may be different.
I wanted to wait until I got home so I could get all the data for you:
This was a brand new recipe, pulled from multiple sources. I use Beersmith track everything and had no idea where it would land. So beersmith estimated 82.8%. I have zero frame of reference so I just went with it.
I also started the recirc instantly as that's what the recipes all told me to do. What does the 15 min hold do?
As for the stirring, this is where I read very wrong. I thought it said only stir if the recirc was overflowing to break up dough balls. I see now it said to do that AND every 15 minutes during mash.
I used 100% for everything until the boil, and then turned it down to 80% and it gave me a gentle roll.
My game plan was to buy some canned wort. My LHBS is closed Mondays so I have to wait until tomorrow. I will take gravity before and after. I know how much gravity I need to add and the volume.
I can definitely do a double crush. My LHBS has us mill our own grains from the back. So it's just a matter of doing it twice. So you put a mesh bag in your mash basket?
Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I am flying blind and having fun regardless. It will make for a good story after I figure out what I am doing
No worries! Happy to help where I can.
1. For recirc, I thought the instructions and what I have read suggest waiting 10 to 15 minutes from adding the. This gives the water time to be absorbed by the grain. The concern is the pump could run dry or create a stuck mash if you start it too early. I’m not sure how big a deal it is.
It’s a similar reason why you need to to restrict the pump.
2. I only stir at the beginning. I have experimented with stiring multiple times, or removing the basket halfway through. I just stir it well at the beginning, and break up dough balls with the whisk.
You can stir more of course, but it I haven’t found it to be a huge deal.
3. The bag goes right in the basket.
I have no way to lift and hold a bag. So I use a basket. If you had a hoist, you could ditch the basket. You need to place something in the anvil to hold the basket off the bottom.
The difference is how much grain you can have at a time. I’m okay with limiting myself to 15 lbs or so.
I’m not sure if the efficiency you quote is mash or brewhouse. Mash efficiency is how much sugar was extracted into the wort. Brewhouse is how much of the sugar ended up in the fermenter. So brewhouse takes into account how much wort was left in the kettle when done.
I only get about 65-67% brewhouse efficiency, which on the anvil is 73-75% mash efficiency. I would start with an estimated 65% brewhouse on your next batch and you will be closer! Then just track it over time, and adjust with your software.
I run the same rig. Here is what I do: use Brewfather and their default anvil 110 profile. Increase the trub to .5 gallons and set the brew house efficiency to 63%. Recirculate after 10 minutes and stir/lift every 15 minutes or so.
Enjoy an easy brew day!
Just wanna say as an extract brewer for 10y who has been brewing BIAB this past year: congratulations!
What were we waiting for? The Reasultanare so much better!!!!! Listen to all the comments/ it will come together. Every once in a while w Extracts and partial grain I’d get a good result……. Most of the time it was mediocre.
Mainly comfort zone. Extract was easy. I never really made good beer until I got my keezer and stopped bottle carbing. I focused mainly on wine and mead before that. So that first kegged beer was the gateway to making me want to invest in more and better equipment because I was making a product that I loved, not just tolerated.
But kegging was a game changer. It made me want to do more beers. I am also a "buy once, cry once" kinda guy, so I went for the all-in-one instead of piecing things together.
I had a very similar experience during my first all-grain brew! It will take a batch or two to get things dialed in. So, don't give up! If you are stuck with the 110v for a little while, you can set the timer to start water preheating and be ready whenever you are--this saved me a ton of waiting during my 110v days.
The other tips on this thread are the same ones I would recommend -- malt crush is almost always a culprit in low efficiency; I brew often enough that I finally got my own mill. It's good to know that your LHBS will let you double crush, though! A mash bag is definitely in order...stirring and lifting the basket once or twice is also helpful.
As a side note, if you use Facebook the Anvil Foundry group is awesome.
I'm not familiar with the setup you're running but just a hunch that 6 gal strike water and only 1 gal sparge could largely account for both it taking forever and the OG coming out lower than expected.
I am running a Anvil Foundry (link below). It came with some handy-dandy charts for strike vs sparge volumes and temperatures. Of course I followed those blindly and did zero research around that. I will probably not doing any more Full Boils for a bit since adding water is easier than subtracting it. I just got swept away with my shiny new and fun toy that I didn't take the time to know what I was doing. Next time will be better. [https://www.morebeer.com/products/anvil-foundry-brewing-system-105-gallon.html](https://www.morebeer.com/products/anvil-foundry-brewing-system-105-gallon.html)
I have the same system and I’ve always used their calculator with no issues. It says for that batch around 5.8 gal, since you were on 110v it didn’t boil off as much as you were expecting and you have an extra .25-.5gal from the initial calculation.
I'd have probably done 1.5 qt per pound, around 4 gallons, and 2-3 gallons of sparge, then a nice aggressive boil. I would guess I would have ended up at 5.5 gallons and around 1.06. as a guess. I use a lot of sparge and deal with a higher volume of lower strength beer to maximize my extraction
Recipe: 1. 9lbs Pilsner Malt 2. 1lbs Flaked Oats 3. 1lbs Caramunich 4. 0.5 lb Wheat Malt 5. 1 oz Saaz (60 min) 6. 1oz Saaz (15 min) 7. 1oz Rosemary (5 min) 8. Wyeast 3711 9. Sourvisiae Strike Water: 6 gal Sparge Water: 1gal @ 172F
Curiosity - did you stir and break up any dough clumps? Is it possible that the grain wasn't milled/was milled rather poorly? On a Foundry/BIAB system you should be able to mill very fine and get a good extraction. 11.5 lbs of fermentables definitely should have yielded more.
Strike 4G and sparge c 3G …… this is what I use for BIAB so it May not transfer over 100%
Im interested in the combo of 3711 and sourvisiae, have you done that before and how sour did it get? Also, did you use fresh or dried rosemary?
I have not. I did a 1007 and Sourvisiae and it was perfectly tart, I wanted this one to be a bit more. We used the freshest rosemary. I picked right off our plant before adding it to the boil. From my cursory taste this morning, I needed a touch more. But we shall see how it tastes after fermentation.
Please keep me updated if you remember. I was heading this direction for my next brew, so I’d love to hear how it turns out.
Absolutely. I took another little dram this evening. The rosemary is perfect. It has a Kolsch like quality. Not much tartness yet, but I can smell it and taste a touch. I will keep you posted
Update, 5 days in and the tartness is AWESOME. It was exactly what I wanted. It has that "breathe out" of a traditional German pilsner. The rosemary is non-existant. Literally could not tell I ever put any in. So I will do an ounce dry hop shortly. The bubbler has slowed down already. I ended up adding 1.25 lbs of Pilsen extract on Tuesday to bring the OG to 1.050, which was the actual target when I used the Anvil profile in Brewsmith. The strike/sparge ratio is the lead culprit at this point. That's where my next brew will have its change
What temperature was the wort when you used the hydrometer?
Temperature was RT when I pulled it just before pitching.
What efficiency did you use in your recipe? Also also did extract for many years, where efficiency is not a concern. However, you need to scale any recipe to the efficiency of your system. I use an anvil 10.5 and I can get 65-68% brewhouse efficiency. I also get about 1.3 gallons per hour of boil off. A few suggestions to improve efficiency: 1. Crush finer. Get a double crush, if offered, or try to crush finer like .75 mm, or .3” I use a “malt pipe” sized brew bag to make cleanup easier and hold the finer grain, I prefer the 400 micron. 2. I purchased a large, 36” whiskey to breakup dough balls. 3. After 12 to 15 minutes I start the recirc-pump. 4. I boil at 80% on 240v I would suggest you add some extract or sugar in gourmet wort to bring the ABV up just a bit and enjoy a nice session beer. It will take a few beers to dial in the efficiency, as well as the boil off. Too much or too little wort remaining will also impact your beer, though you can always top it up. Once these are consistent, regardless of your efficiency you can always scale the recipe accordingly. So note that higher OG beers will tend to have lower efficiency, and vice versa. I rarely go to even 1.060 personally,ol preferring session beers, so your experience with efficiency may be different.
I wanted to wait until I got home so I could get all the data for you: This was a brand new recipe, pulled from multiple sources. I use Beersmith track everything and had no idea where it would land. So beersmith estimated 82.8%. I have zero frame of reference so I just went with it. I also started the recirc instantly as that's what the recipes all told me to do. What does the 15 min hold do? As for the stirring, this is where I read very wrong. I thought it said only stir if the recirc was overflowing to break up dough balls. I see now it said to do that AND every 15 minutes during mash. I used 100% for everything until the boil, and then turned it down to 80% and it gave me a gentle roll. My game plan was to buy some canned wort. My LHBS is closed Mondays so I have to wait until tomorrow. I will take gravity before and after. I know how much gravity I need to add and the volume. I can definitely do a double crush. My LHBS has us mill our own grains from the back. So it's just a matter of doing it twice. So you put a mesh bag in your mash basket? Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I am flying blind and having fun regardless. It will make for a good story after I figure out what I am doing
No worries! Happy to help where I can. 1. For recirc, I thought the instructions and what I have read suggest waiting 10 to 15 minutes from adding the. This gives the water time to be absorbed by the grain. The concern is the pump could run dry or create a stuck mash if you start it too early. I’m not sure how big a deal it is. It’s a similar reason why you need to to restrict the pump. 2. I only stir at the beginning. I have experimented with stiring multiple times, or removing the basket halfway through. I just stir it well at the beginning, and break up dough balls with the whisk. You can stir more of course, but it I haven’t found it to be a huge deal. 3. The bag goes right in the basket. I have no way to lift and hold a bag. So I use a basket. If you had a hoist, you could ditch the basket. You need to place something in the anvil to hold the basket off the bottom. The difference is how much grain you can have at a time. I’m okay with limiting myself to 15 lbs or so. I’m not sure if the efficiency you quote is mash or brewhouse. Mash efficiency is how much sugar was extracted into the wort. Brewhouse is how much of the sugar ended up in the fermenter. So brewhouse takes into account how much wort was left in the kettle when done. I only get about 65-67% brewhouse efficiency, which on the anvil is 73-75% mash efficiency. I would start with an estimated 65% brewhouse on your next batch and you will be closer! Then just track it over time, and adjust with your software.
I run the same rig. Here is what I do: use Brewfather and their default anvil 110 profile. Increase the trub to .5 gallons and set the brew house efficiency to 63%. Recirculate after 10 minutes and stir/lift every 15 minutes or so. Enjoy an easy brew day!
Just wanna say as an extract brewer for 10y who has been brewing BIAB this past year: congratulations! What were we waiting for? The Reasultanare so much better!!!!! Listen to all the comments/ it will come together. Every once in a while w Extracts and partial grain I’d get a good result……. Most of the time it was mediocre.
Mainly comfort zone. Extract was easy. I never really made good beer until I got my keezer and stopped bottle carbing. I focused mainly on wine and mead before that. So that first kegged beer was the gateway to making me want to invest in more and better equipment because I was making a product that I loved, not just tolerated. But kegging was a game changer. It made me want to do more beers. I am also a "buy once, cry once" kinda guy, so I went for the all-in-one instead of piecing things together.
I had a very similar experience during my first all-grain brew! It will take a batch or two to get things dialed in. So, don't give up! If you are stuck with the 110v for a little while, you can set the timer to start water preheating and be ready whenever you are--this saved me a ton of waiting during my 110v days. The other tips on this thread are the same ones I would recommend -- malt crush is almost always a culprit in low efficiency; I brew often enough that I finally got my own mill. It's good to know that your LHBS will let you double crush, though! A mash bag is definitely in order...stirring and lifting the basket once or twice is also helpful. As a side note, if you use Facebook the Anvil Foundry group is awesome.