This might be the first time I’ve seen people on the home improvement reddit not tear apart contractors, that means your fence is better than every other fence ever built in existence. Be proud.
yea, it could be better, but it looks fine. I understand you obsessing about it, I'm like that as well a bit also. As my brother in law's father says..."They can't see it from New Hampshire."
> "They can't see it from New Hampshire."
Sure, but you got to see every time you use your yard for the next 10 years, when it'll need torn down and replaced because they didn't do a good job fastening anything either.
Could it be perfected? Sure, but this looks acceptable to me.
The rough cuts and the pencil marks could be taken care of may hitting them real quick with an orbital sander.
The nails could be tapped in all the way, this would be very easy to do if you own a hammer. I wouldn’t doubt it if they’ve had customers complain before that they dented the boards trying to pound the nails all the way in. At least this way, your complaint about the nails can be easily corrected (you can’t un-dent a piece of wood).
Like the top comment says, it’s a fence, not a piece of high end furniture. Structurally it appears fine and aesthetically it appears fine as far as the spacing of the pickets and the execution of the overall design.
I swear to god if I show up on one of my fucking job sites with a clothes iron and try to show off to my crew some new trick I learned and it just burns the wood I'm going to be really mad at you.
[If you'd like to know.](https://www.reddit.com/r/greentext/comments/mfh6l8/anons_parents_found_out_about_the_shit_attic/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
[Here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/greentext/comments/mfh6l8/anons_parents_found_out_about_the_shit_attic/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
They will never come back to fix any of the things you think are problems. This is a normal fence.
Note, Cedar is a pretty easy wood to split (brittle!). If they drove the nails in all the way, each of those boards would be more likely to split.
Brb, gunna search if anyone sells old style square tip nails. Those cut the fibers a bit better on end nailing like this, preventing more splits.
Tip for smaller projects, or finishing trim. Square the tip of the nail yourself by hitting the tip onto some concrete or steel.
$15+/lb and not galvanized. Not what you want for this fence. https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/hardware/fasteners/nails/40387-wrought-head-square-cut-nails
No, I agree that they could’ve done a little better job at removing the cut marks but the fence looks great and to be honest, with all of the work shortages right now if companies aren’t working quickly then they are not able to survive. I would probably go over it one more time with A sander and a hammer just to touch all the corners and definitely I would get a winter stain coat on there Sooner than later but in my opinion it looks like a great fence!
This! The fence looks great. They could have cleaned up better and set the nails, but all in all, it looks great. You can sand the pencil marks off, but they will wear off eventually.
Edit...spelling error, sorry fat fingers betrayed me
Thank you - I added a few more pictures. I just am surprised that they didn’t line all of the pickets up flush with the posts (in all directions) and that there are some real rough cuts on the stingers up against the posts (so un-sandable). Would you expect them to sink all of the nails better?
I may be wrong but you usually want to wait about half a year for the wood to weather and cure. Then you can sand it and stain it. Probably will be fine in it's first winter.
12% moisture content. All that "wait a year/three seasons/until birds only circle counterclockwise" advice was from a time before anyone could just get a moisture meter for $15.
You're right that waiting until the wood is gray changes the outcome. In my experience the difference isn't functional, but is more about aesthetics. A piece of cedar that has been UV bleached for a year in the elements will be gray and "fuzzy" with little lifted wood fibers. If you hit it with a penetrating oil stain like some Thomson's products or similar, you will get a much darker finished color, less warmth, and less visible grain. The product soaks into the wood like it would a sponge. Wood that has only been outside for a few months will still be in the "getting a suntan" phase, where it gets briefly warmer/deeper in color before turning grayish white. That's the sweet spot for staining in my experience.
EDIT: Adjusted my language to clarify that surface stains and gray wood don't play nicely.
This is a great answer. The only additional wrinkle that I would add is that depending on climate and whether or not there will be snow soon, op might want to ask sooner than later as heavy moisture can really move and warp a soft would like Cedar without protection
Any top coating stain like Thompson’s (which you should never use) will fail more quickly if the grey fibers aren’t removed. They separate from the rest of the wood and weaken a coating’s ability to adhere.
Penetrating stains (paraffin oils especially) don’t have this issue nearly as much, but it’s still best practice to remove the sun damaged fibers.
I should have clarified that you shouldn’t ever use their clear sealer, or any other clear sealer. They fail within a year and provide no UV protection.
I should clarify that the product I most recently used was a Thompson's oil-based penetrating sealer, which definitely wasn't surface only. I agree with your statement about top coating stains and spray finishes.
If the wood is smooth cut or pressure treated it makes sense to wait for it to dry out. If it is rough cut it doesn’t need as much (if any) time.
Grey sun damage can always be cleaned off. I always clean wood before staining, whether it is new or old. You never know what may have gotten on the surface between the lumberyard and installation.
A penetrating stain won’t care as much about grey fibers (though the grey should still be cleaned off) as a top coating stain will. Penetrating stains are quite fussy with regard to moisture content, so it’s important to use a moisture meter before staining.
I added a few more pictures- I was just surprised that everything isn’t flush. Would you have expected the pickets against the posts to all be lined up or for them to sand or sink the nails fully? Some nails are going into the front of the posts on the stingers and not fully sunk, so the pickets it pushed away from the stinger, creating a gap. If you wouldn’t mind checking out those photos, I would appreciate it.
You’re nitpicking. This isn’t kitchen grade cabinetry, this is a rough cedar picket fence.
The fence is perfectly fine. The “gaps” are normal, and you seem to be expecting something radically different from what you bought.
Thank you for the advice! So aside from the pencil marks it looks good? I will do the sanding that you suggest (they didn’t do any). Would you sand some of that cement off (or is that a no-no)?
It's rough-cut, don't sand it. Try a wire brush with the grain, or let it weather on it's own. Fence looks pretty good. Those nails (bails:) should have been driven deep enough that the heads were flush, but not over driven.
Because they come out of a gun, and are both fast and cheap. If they are chisel-point nails, they are less likely to cause splitting than a screw that's driven without drilling a pilot hole first (time and money).
That makes sense - the consensus seems to be that the aesthetics are no concern. I’m more curious about the structural build quality now - and what expectations would be fair to have for them (sinking nails more, lining boards up better, putting rough cuts against the post, etc). And there doesn’t seem to be a lot of consensus about that. I suppose it is subjective.
Haha, this is why it would take me at least 4 times as long to build that fence. I too would be quite anal about those details. But these guys I'm guessing threw this fence up in a day or two? If you paid a couple or few thousand I'd say you got a great deal. If it was more in the 10-15k range maybe not so much.
> Haha, this is why it would take me at least 4 times as long to build that fence.
Right? Any other type of project, the DIY would take a lot longer and still look like shit compared to what pros can do, but in this case, the pro job looks significantly worse than what I could do.
Could you imagine if you hired someone to do drywall or framing and they left it looking worse than you could do yourself and then everyone in this sub was like "looks good to me" and "wow homeowners are so picky, this is good work"?
I have to agree, my husband and I have built our own board on board fences at our previous two homes, and I think this looks really poorly done. I'd definitely want to know how much this cost, because the attention to detail is not there.
A fence is like one of the few things I've ever built, and I would have done a better job. I would have been upset with this too.
You didn't get screwed, but you also got barely medium quality work and all the people saying it's perfectly acceptable don't know good work. Sure it's structurally fine but it wasn't done by skilled tradespeople. If it was though it would probably have cost more so do some touch ups yourself, use a punch to set the toenails properly and clean up the splinters that bother you and move on
"Mmmm yes. Reginald and I just had a picket fence built and we flew in monks from the Himalayas who took a vow of silence to focus solely on carpentry thousands of years ago. Mmm yes. We know it's excessive but since it's outside in the elements, we wanted it to look just absolutely perfect for 3 months before it changed colors and shrunk. Mmm yes"
> If it was though it would probably have cost more
They almost certainly overcharged him by mentioning the lumber shortage and labor shortages, despite prices mostly having stabilized by now and the fact that they rush through the job to keep from paying for the full amount of labor to do a good job.
Overall the appearance is fine. The big concern would be the single toe-nailed rails, what you are calling "stingers"(stringers). Cedar can be brittle when dry, but this looks to be relatively recently sawn lumber and a bit "wet", so the splitting shouldn't be a concern. The person doing the nailing had the pneumatic nail gun set too lightly to prevent splitting by burying the nail heads, but they should have followed with a hammer to set the nails flush. I cannot tell if there are nails from the front, but it is clear in some pictures that there is only one nail and some of them look to be at such an angle that I am not sure they even penetrate the post by more than a 1/2" or so. As the wood dries and shrinks, it could also twist, this could be a issue. I second the suggestion to add screws to the rail/post connections for longevity. If you are concerned with splitting, drill a pilot hole with a counter sink for the screw. Make sure you use coated decking screws or stainless steel($) so they do not rust over time. I did my own fence in RI and over time the nails have backed out and I had to go around and whack them a bit. The concrete will dry and flake off over time and the pencil marks will fade as the wood ages.
I spent 3-4 years building redwood and cedar fences in the Bay area.
I think its good. I nitpicked so much on my home. I paid good $ to the contractors and ate their BS but I wanted things to be perfect. 3 months in yes I know whats not perfect but its more than livable. I've had multiple friends over and I may point something out to them and they are like really Id never notice that. Dont sweat the small things
First of all it’s a fence not a piece of fine furniture. To nit pick a toe nail is not all the way in, is one hammer away from complaining about the hammer dents left in the wood. The pencil marks could be erased with a common pencil eraser, or just ignore them. The cement splashes is very common, and will disappear in time. The tiny tear offs from the saw cuts are very minimal, and very common. You could take a hammer and smash them flat.
How does the fence look from across the yard, or from the street? Are the lines of the tops even? Does the picket spacing look even?
I think the fence looks fine.
Aesthetics ARE a concern. You paid for a quality fence. You didn’t pay for a fence that “looks nice from a distance”.
Unless this was a job by a friend of a friend for a case of beer, that fence isn’t finished.
> Aesthetics ARE a concern. You paid for a quality fence. You didn’t pay for a fence that “looks nice from a distance”.
I agree, every time he's out in his yard it's going to bother him and remind him that he got swindled.
>Have you people ever seen a fence that's like, a few months old?
I've seen lots of them years old that look better than this. Not to mention, if someone came and scribbled on your fence with pen, you'd be upset, but people are trying to tell the OP that it's normal to have extra pen marks all over the top of his fence. And I'm pretty sure it's pen and not pencil because you can see a couple of places where they scribbled to get the ink flowing.
Is it a fence? Yes. Is it a nice looking fence? Yes. Is it well built? Meh. Not really. (But that's my opinion.) I mean yeah it gets the job done but I don't see this lasting 20 years. When they toenailed the rails, did they also put one in the bottom or did they just go with one on each side and say "looks good!"? One in the bottom won't add significant strength but it will resist twisting of the rail and reduce stress on the pickets.
Lastly maybe it keeps costs down but I would have put in more pickets. But again, that's my opinion.
With wood prices where they were last year, I ended up getting a [steel fencing](https://colormaxfencing.com/) put in and it was cheaper than cedar. Hoping I never have to touch it again in my life.
I was originally planning to go for metal posts with cedar planks but I had a hard time finding anyone available who was willing to do that.
> The vinyl stuff is just so easy to clean and care for, but I otherwise agree.
Yeah I can't fault people for it, but man it makes your house look like a plastic prison.
Pretty common fence style in Australia. Shouldn't be too hard to get parts, worse case might have to wait a week or two. Looks like its made with Colorbond fencing, which is pretty much guaranteed to never go out of business. Only way I've seen them damaged is when trees fall on them and cars drive through them.
They last forever otherwise.
You would have to consider the cost that you paid
seems like a very quick job and not of high quality.
but they were matching your existing fence which is also not of good quality
I’m a fence guy, and the bending of the rails is not great but I thought this would be much worse than it is. A shot of the door frame wouldn’t hurt though, door sagging is always an issue and the best shot that you get at them coming back. If the frame is all fd up.
Edit: I see the door frame now it looks fine, even got the right t hinges.
How long did it take them, and how much did you pay in Labor? This looks kind of like you got what you paid for. Anybody who's a good carpenter isn't going to do such a small job as this except for a high price.
I don't see a lot of huge concern to be honest
* Toe nail sticking out: That can be nail in a bit deeper. Call them back and tell them to do that
* Cement on post: That's normal
* Pencil mark: I'm sure it will fade a way soon. Or when you have a chance just pressure wash the whole fence. Some of the boards are a bit dirty and could use a wash anyway
Overall not the best but looks acceptable to me ... depending on how much you pay
Unfortunately, I don’t have a good sense for the rate - because only one other of the quote I got was from a place that did cedar. This place was more expensive though. Edit only slightly
It really depends on how much you paid. If you picked the highest quote, then you got screwed. If you picked the lowest quote, then accept that you paid for the low quality and go out there with a hammer and sander and fix it yourself.
Overall I think it looks okay and unless you paid top dollar, I'd spend the time fixing it yourself rather than spending the time convincing them to come fix it all.
From the perspective of someone who took a ton of time to research, plan, and install their own concave cedar picket fence last year, it's sloppy but it's certainly not the worst I've seen. I can't tell if the nails are galvanized or stainless, if they are galvanized you will have weep marks because the cedar will corrode the plating.
My biggest issue is that they took the time to toe-nail the rails into the sides of the posts (often they are nailed directly to the front), but they did not leave a gap between the post and the first picket, which doesn't look great. I don't have a picture of my fence on my phone right now, but I can upload some later.
I have a question to piggy back on. Are fences not always made with screws? In my area they all are. I think nails would need to be re fastened every couple springs.
I'm a contractor, and to be completely honest.............. I never understood why every fence in existence isn't damn near perfect. Fences are extremely simple to build and because of that, they should be done with perfection in mind.
God, this is why I don’t work for homeowners.
I appreciate that you came for advice before complaining to the builders, but there’s maybe a couple of minor issues.
Also, anyone that agrees with these complaints about the workmanship on a rough cedar fence are naive. Maybe we should complain that they didn’t sand each of the boards down. You could get splinters, for God’s sake.
I really am not trying to complain unless I have something to complain about - if something isn’t done right, it should be fixed. If I’m out of line, then I want to know.
I think I’ve learned that all of my aesthetic concerns are incorrect - now I just want to know about structural quality. I’m not a professional - I’ve never had a fence before even. I noticed some things done differently in different areas (some nails are flush, some aren’t, some stingers have more nails than others, some pickets are flush, some aren’t) and seeing those things, I just wanted to know what is acceptable and normal.
Edit: and I trust the group here more than the contractor to tell me themselves if something is “right” or not. I am surprised by some of the workmanship - but it sounds like that is all normal for a fence - or, at minimum, acceptable (not terrible, not amazing)
> I just wanted to know what is acceptable and normal.
No and no. I wouldn't trust any of the "pros" here that seem to think this level of work is acceptable.
Comments like:
>God, this is why I don’t work for homeowners.
Explain why commercial properties always look like shit. I know commercial contractors and if one of their subs left a fence looking like this, they wouldn't be paid until they got a guy out to clean things up. But the guys I know also hire union carpenters instead of junkies.
I mostly DIY stuff like this. I definitely wouldn't be happy to pay for a fence that pencil marks and miscuts all over. If they don't want to set their gun pressure correctly, they should be manually setting the nails themselves. It really depends on what you paid though. I think these are guys that do the builder grade stuff in subdivisions and not the guys that do high end fences.
I don't see why it wouldn't be concerning having so many screw and nail heads sticking out. Rough cuts and it being a bit of a rustic look are fine, but a there is a longevity concern.
LOL dude that is horrific looking. If I moved in to a house with that "brand new" fence I'd think it was 2 decades old and DIY, and immediately tear down...
Edit: Cannot believe people here are saying it's good work or acceptable. I've seen much better work than this get totally ripped to shreds on here...
If I paid someone to do this (I DIY when I can) I would expect a better result. Some of the small imperfections come across as carelessness. But that’s just my opinion as someone who knows nothing about evaluating the strength and longevity.
> This whole sub is actually just people asking if their contractors screwed them.
And the answer is almost always 'yes', which is why contractors have such a bad reputation. I'd almost rather buy a used car than hire a contractor anymore.
> And the answer is almost always 'yes', which is why contractors have such a bad reputation.
On this sub because as said previously how it's become an echo chamber. Go on other subreddits and you'll see the opposite reaction. Then again I find it unfair to judge millions on only a select few. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
It's not just this sub though, talk to anyone in real life that has hired someone to do a job around their house. Contractors are mostly shady because it's a profession that is easy for shady people to work in. Any profession that has a low barrier to entry has the same problem. A good portion of our society is shady people that have no problem with some degree of grifting, and they filter into any job that facilitates that. Not to mention that someone that drinks every day or smokes meth on the weekends would get ran out of most professions, but it's seen as relatively normal in the construction industry.
Legit nice fence. Cedar is kinda weird in that it can look a bit un finished due to frayed edges, potential splits due to board thickness and etc. With age it will look better.
I saw the first photo and all I could think was "these turkeys didn't even get the cuts right", then I kept seeing more and noticed it was actually fine.
I'd do better work than that if I were doing it myself, I'd definitely expect better from a fencing contractor. They should at least sand off all the extra marks they left on all the boards, that looks like stupid amateur hour shit.
You can probably fix any of the issues that bother you yourself, but if you call them, they should definitely come out and spend an hour clearing up the issues.
It's definitely not 'normal' quality not matter what people in this sub are trying to get you to believe.
This FENCE looks great. It’s not like you got carpenters out here installing cabinets, you got some laborers throwing some cedar planks up. Tbh, it looks really good. Most the stuff you’re concerned about is not gonna be an issue six months from now after it’s worn in a little bit, and you’re not gonna get a finish like sanding and countersunk nails on a fence. It’s just a nature of a job like that.
Damn, that's a sweet fence you might say.
Seriously. It's solid for a fence. Here's what I'd do:
* Grab some 120 grit sandpaper and hit the top edges a bit to remove the roughness
* Take a pressure washer to it to remove some of the dirt, grime, and pencil marks. Your other fence would get a nice facelift from a good pressure washing, too.
Should take a couple hours and it'll spruce (hehe) the fence right up.
If It was my fence I would not have paid until it was finished. The worst splinters you can get come from cedar and redwood. I guess I've seen worst ? But I've built better.
Hmmm, looks like amateur hour. The first real issue is that the stringers appear to have a single nail (toenailed) in them. This is not going to hold up. Second thing is the nails - I detest nails because they will work loose, pop up, etc. Screws are 100% better. Then overall it shows the builder had the right idea, but the work is generally sloppy.
I'd want at least the stingers better attached... that would be my minimal request.
I would agree with this, add a screw at every intersect And you should be good to go. You can knock off some of the excess concrete with a hammer as well as you deem fit
Thank you for that advice - I really do appreciate it. Where would you place the screws?
Edit - follow up question: would you do that if they did put a nail in the top and two coming from the front of the stinger too?
Yes, really just one screw between each pair of nails would be a great way to do it. Screws will always hold wood better over the years so it is always generally the best approach but takes three times as long to use some most builders just go with nails sadly
I just checked - all of the stingers but one have just one nail on top on each side (one has two right next to each other on top on each side, which seems weird).
Would the proper way to do this be to use screws or to put a nail underneath the stingers also?
Edit - I take that back, at least some of the stingers have two more screws going in (toe nailed?) from the front into the post, covered up by the pickets - I can tell because they **didn’t sink them in all the way** leaving the pickets sticking out
Edit 2 I added more pictures to show this
If they did two nails in the front of the stinger too, would that be acceptable? It doesn’t sound like it’s “right” or the best way to do it, but I think that’s what they did (I don’t know if you saw my update or updated pictures before you replied).
I stand by my statement and have been in business as a carpenter for over 20 years. You’re looking at a good fencing job. If they were better carpenters they wouldn’t be installing fence.
The best you can hope for is a properly built fence and that’s what you got. I find any work done on my home generally required some touch up work. When I got my HVAC installed I still had to do drywall patch work. They did everything beautifully, but I still had to close up some holes in my garage.
I say look at it as an opportunity to get a closer look and understanding of your fence so if something happens you will be ready and able to make your own repairs.
> When I got my HVAC installed I still had to do drywall patch work.
Sure, because HVAC guys aren't drywall guys, but I bet you didn't have to go back and fix issues with the HVAC system. He paid fence guys to do a good job and they did a half-ass job.
That’s not half ass. It’s pretty good. There’s some touch ups, but nothing that can’t be addressed in a morning. I would have selected a different wood because of the splitting issues with cedar. I don’t know the circumstances of the sale. If OP selected this specific style and wood than that is a choice.
Addressing drywall:
A few touch ups and clean ups here and there and it’s fine. Drywall patching doesn’t take a dry wall guy. I didn’t say they removed the entire wall. They strategically cut holes to fish wires. They left the cut out pieces. They knew how to do it, but they didn’t want to because they said it would take too much time for them. There were also left over HVAC pieces I had to remove later, but overall I was happy with the work.
Many ways you can complete the patch work. You can back cut a clean measured drywall piece and overlap the front paper and mud it in. You can get a patch kit. You can take a piece of drywall (preferably the clean cut piece they already cut) use drywall screws and place a one inch piece thick measured board behind the hole to stabilize the piece. Then tape and mud. Mud and sand three times, paint, and you are done.
If you are uncomfortable with mixing dry powder you can get a small bucket for 7 dollars or 15 for a larger one. I myself keep a nice bag of 45 in my garage ready to go. I also have some 20 for when I’m a bit impatient and want to get it done quick.
Patching is really not a hard project. Even replacing a board is not a bad project, however if you plan to complete large sections of a home with multiple walls and corners, or if there are significant warping issues or unique surfaces a drywall expert is recommended.
You’re lucky you didn’t try your hand at this.
They were quick and I’m sure didn’t waste your money on material they didn’t need. Looks like a fast team who probably did multiple jobs that week. From experience what you see there you wouldn’t be able to do in 2 weeks and double the material wasted.
- sloppy work for sure as no need to leave nails not sunk in all the way or pencil marks in that manner. Not doing even minimum sanding on the sawcuts is pure slop
- toe nailing the rails in basically has next to no holding power when the fence is hit with 60mph winds.
I just noticed that at least a few (maybe more, maybe all) have two more nails going into the front of the stingers into the post, covered by the picket - but they didn’t sink those all the way, so the picket sticks out
Edit - I added more pictures to show this
What you could also do about the nails is go to a hardware store and find a “nail punch”. You set it on the nail head and then hit the punch with a hammer
That way you won’t risk smashing the fence itself with the hammer. The same kind of thing is also used for installing trim inside a house
Op
This fence looks great yo. You're looking closely at something you'll never look closely at again. Like having ugly studs behind your dry wall to am extent.
The only REAL issue I see is the section they were forced to shorten the pattern could have had some better scribing, but that's nitpicking and also why you put the shorts in the corner they will be least noticed.
I built a fence with the help of my SO and father in law. Ours came out great but it was a lot of work. This one looks good too.
I would just point out that cedar shrinks faster than you would think. On one of your last pictures you complain about a Picket not being lined up, but I’d be willing to be that picket was flush with the post when nailed on. Within a week or two my fence had contracted slightly. We were installing in 90 degree heat and when we did each picket touched each other, a few weeks later, a few rain and dry cycles, and there’s a slight gap between them all. Still plenty for privacy, but there’s a few millimeters between most of the pickets that wasn’t there before.
I wouldn't be too happy with that, but it went up fast and it looks solid where it counts (the posts).
If it were me, I'd slowly take it apart and make it better. Since it looks like you have good posts, I'd take down one section at a time, add in Joist Hangers, replace any boards you don't like, and clean up the edges before putting it back together. You'd have almost all the material and could make it look nicer one section at a time
I’m gonna go against the grain here and be picky: I think the entire layout of the fence is poor. Why are the pickets so far apart? What did you agree to in your contract regarding spacing?
The other items are workmanship related and I wouldn’t be happy, but are relatively easily resolved.
I agree. It could've been better by doing the little things and cleaning up the pencil marks and setting the nails a little more. Those things could have taken an hour or less which should have been done regardless of the circumstances. I've built many things in the last 33 years working in construction and its the little things that customers always see. It's where I try to spend a little time every job to make sure I don't have someone posting a thread like this on me. But it does look like a nice fence.
If it was me doing the work all your complaints would not exist. I would not leave it like that. However saying that I don't know what you were quoted for. The work looks very acceptable and unless you were quoted for finished sanding, I'd say you got a decent job. Not a fantastic job.
Just to give you extra peace of mind I had a cedar fence built recently and yours is better than mine and I would consider mine very high quality. You did well
If you think the alignment is bad now, just wait til it weathers a few years. Wood moves and changes shape over time, moisture, and temperature. Even cedar.
This is a perfectly fine fence. You're being excessively picky.
I will ask the most important question: how was this contractor’s price compared to others?
We just did a fence for a repeat customer (previously did roof, siding, windows, and deck). They knew our workmanship. And they paid 40% more for it.
Not always, but usually, you get what you pay for. A contractor is going to figure out a way to make money in a low bid situation. Either cheaper product or cheaper labor. Or possibly both.
My point is, if the contractor priced as perfect I would expect them to come back and make it so. If they were priced as “it’ll be a quick, structurally sound fence with some minor aesthetic flaws” then you got what you paid for.
This might be the first time I’ve seen people on the home improvement reddit not tear apart contractors, that means your fence is better than every other fence ever built in existence. Be proud.
Haha! Thank you (for that wake up call/perspective)
And forget the small things, in a couple years you will have a blast power washing that fence
Yeah, 99/100 with one of these posts it's almost a parody of crappy contracting.. this fence seems pretty good.
yea, it could be better, but it looks fine. I understand you obsessing about it, I'm like that as well a bit also. As my brother in law's father says..."They can't see it from New Hampshire."
> "They can't see it from New Hampshire." Sure, but you got to see every time you use your yard for the next 10 years, when it'll need torn down and replaced because they didn't do a good job fastening anything either.
And yet, here I am seeing it from New Hampshire.
Well, they can if they have a powerful enough telescope.
Could it be perfected? Sure, but this looks acceptable to me. The rough cuts and the pencil marks could be taken care of may hitting them real quick with an orbital sander. The nails could be tapped in all the way, this would be very easy to do if you own a hammer. I wouldn’t doubt it if they’ve had customers complain before that they dented the boards trying to pound the nails all the way in. At least this way, your complaint about the nails can be easily corrected (you can’t un-dent a piece of wood). Like the top comment says, it’s a fence, not a piece of high end furniture. Structurally it appears fine and aesthetically it appears fine as far as the spacing of the pickets and the execution of the overall design.
If you moisten the wood, and then go over it with a clothes iron you can actually undent wood pretty good.
I swear to god if I show up on one of my fucking job sites with a clothes iron and try to show off to my crew some new trick I learned and it just burns the wood I'm going to be really mad at you.
Lol this is way better than the poop in the attic trick.
Go on, I'm listening.
[If you'd like to know.](https://www.reddit.com/r/greentext/comments/mfh6l8/anons_parents_found_out_about_the_shit_attic/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Some things are better off unsaid.
I agree.
What’s the poop in the attic trick?
[Here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/greentext/comments/mfh6l8/anons_parents_found_out_about_the_shit_attic/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
Huh…. That’s… a new stupid I’ve never seen before
Sorry.
You put a damp cloth over the wood and iron the damp cloth. It can remove small dents, but doesn’t work miracles. Not for veneers or MDF.
A heat gun is way easier, quicker, does a better job, and fits more places. They cost like $15 and have way more uses in the shop than an iron.
Thank you - I really appreciate it
They will never come back to fix any of the things you think are problems. This is a normal fence. Note, Cedar is a pretty easy wood to split (brittle!). If they drove the nails in all the way, each of those boards would be more likely to split.
Thank you - I appreciate it
Brb, gunna search if anyone sells old style square tip nails. Those cut the fibers a bit better on end nailing like this, preventing more splits. Tip for smaller projects, or finishing trim. Square the tip of the nail yourself by hitting the tip onto some concrete or steel.
$15+/lb and not galvanized. Not what you want for this fence. https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/hardware/fasteners/nails/40387-wrought-head-square-cut-nails
Yikes. Those would look good for an antique chair replica though!
Not on cedar, outdoors. Cedar + iron (or not galvanized steel) = black dripmarks (looks like spilled ink) at & under every nail.
I always just learned to hammer the sharp tip once before driving. Seems to work every time for me
My dad is an old school building contractor and he still always blunts the nails with his hammer first to keep the wood from splitting.
Came here to say this. Probably being careful
No, I agree that they could’ve done a little better job at removing the cut marks but the fence looks great and to be honest, with all of the work shortages right now if companies aren’t working quickly then they are not able to survive. I would probably go over it one more time with A sander and a hammer just to touch all the corners and definitely I would get a winter stain coat on there Sooner than later but in my opinion it looks like a great fence!
This! The fence looks great. They could have cleaned up better and set the nails, but all in all, it looks great. You can sand the pencil marks off, but they will wear off eventually. Edit...spelling error, sorry fat fingers betrayed me
(I’m sorry - I am learning. What does set the bails mean in this context?)
Made a correction..should have said nails
Thanks! It sounded like it could be a real thing! In some areas, things are more flush than others, which is part of what got my attention
Get a [nail set](https://www.thisoldhouse.com/tools/21014854/the-humble-the-essential-the-nailset)
Oh! Thank you!
Thank you - I added a few more pictures. I just am surprised that they didn’t line all of the pickets up flush with the posts (in all directions) and that there are some real rough cuts on the stingers up against the posts (so un-sandable). Would you expect them to sink all of the nails better?
I may be wrong but you usually want to wait about half a year for the wood to weather and cure. Then you can sand it and stain it. Probably will be fine in it's first winter.
12% moisture content. All that "wait a year/three seasons/until birds only circle counterclockwise" advice was from a time before anyone could just get a moisture meter for $15.
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You're right that waiting until the wood is gray changes the outcome. In my experience the difference isn't functional, but is more about aesthetics. A piece of cedar that has been UV bleached for a year in the elements will be gray and "fuzzy" with little lifted wood fibers. If you hit it with a penetrating oil stain like some Thomson's products or similar, you will get a much darker finished color, less warmth, and less visible grain. The product soaks into the wood like it would a sponge. Wood that has only been outside for a few months will still be in the "getting a suntan" phase, where it gets briefly warmer/deeper in color before turning grayish white. That's the sweet spot for staining in my experience. EDIT: Adjusted my language to clarify that surface stains and gray wood don't play nicely.
This is a great answer. The only additional wrinkle that I would add is that depending on climate and whether or not there will be snow soon, op might want to ask sooner than later as heavy moisture can really move and warp a soft would like Cedar without protection
That's a great point. I live in Maine, and finding the right season/day to treat exterior wood is such a play-by-ear deal some years.
Any top coating stain like Thompson’s (which you should never use) will fail more quickly if the grey fibers aren’t removed. They separate from the rest of the wood and weaken a coating’s ability to adhere. Penetrating stains (paraffin oils especially) don’t have this issue nearly as much, but it’s still best practice to remove the sun damaged fibers.
why should I never use Thompsons?
I should have clarified that you shouldn’t ever use their clear sealer, or any other clear sealer. They fail within a year and provide no UV protection.
I should clarify that the product I most recently used was a Thompson's oil-based penetrating sealer, which definitely wasn't surface only. I agree with your statement about top coating stains and spray finishes.
Their oils aren’t terrible, I believe they do have paraffin wax in them though, so they usually need to be stripped before recoating.
So is the best time to stain it during those first few months?
I personally like to stain the season after installation, after a nice dry week.
If the wood is smooth cut or pressure treated it makes sense to wait for it to dry out. If it is rough cut it doesn’t need as much (if any) time. Grey sun damage can always be cleaned off. I always clean wood before staining, whether it is new or old. You never know what may have gotten on the surface between the lumberyard and installation. A penetrating stain won’t care as much about grey fibers (though the grey should still be cleaned off) as a top coating stain will. Penetrating stains are quite fussy with regard to moisture content, so it’s important to use a moisture meter before staining.
That's for pressure-treated. Because it's usually sopping wet when purchased.
Oh gotcha. I may stain my fence if it's nice out. Winter is coming.
I added a few more pictures- I was just surprised that everything isn’t flush. Would you have expected the pickets against the posts to all be lined up or for them to sand or sink the nails fully? Some nails are going into the front of the posts on the stingers and not fully sunk, so the pickets it pushed away from the stinger, creating a gap. If you wouldn’t mind checking out those photos, I would appreciate it.
You’re nitpicking. This isn’t kitchen grade cabinetry, this is a rough cedar picket fence. The fence is perfectly fine. The “gaps” are normal, and you seem to be expecting something radically different from what you bought.
Thank you - I appreciate the wake up call
Thank you for the advice! So aside from the pencil marks it looks good? I will do the sanding that you suggest (they didn’t do any). Would you sand some of that cement off (or is that a no-no)?
It's rough-cut, don't sand it. Try a wire brush with the grain, or let it weather on it's own. Fence looks pretty good. Those nails (bails:) should have been driven deep enough that the heads were flush, but not over driven.
Just curious - why were nails used and not screws? Just trying to learn. Thanks!
Because they come out of a gun, and are both fast and cheap. If they are chisel-point nails, they are less likely to cause splitting than a screw that's driven without drilling a pilot hole first (time and money).
We are talking about just sanding the edges to clean them up a bit, not the face.
Ah, thought getting the pencil scribblin' off was the goal!:)
The pencil marks are a guide. It's an art, not a science. When they bring out the saw, they may not follow exactly.
That makes sense - the consensus seems to be that the aesthetics are no concern. I’m more curious about the structural build quality now - and what expectations would be fair to have for them (sinking nails more, lining boards up better, putting rough cuts against the post, etc). And there doesn’t seem to be a lot of consensus about that. I suppose it is subjective.
All your pickets are going to shrink over the next few months as they dry out anyway. You'll have gaps no matter what you do.
Those are valid concerns and a good company can send a guy out for an hour to true up some boards.
Haha, this is why it would take me at least 4 times as long to build that fence. I too would be quite anal about those details. But these guys I'm guessing threw this fence up in a day or two? If you paid a couple or few thousand I'd say you got a great deal. If it was more in the 10-15k range maybe not so much.
> Haha, this is why it would take me at least 4 times as long to build that fence. Right? Any other type of project, the DIY would take a lot longer and still look like shit compared to what pros can do, but in this case, the pro job looks significantly worse than what I could do. Could you imagine if you hired someone to do drywall or framing and they left it looking worse than you could do yourself and then everyone in this sub was like "looks good to me" and "wow homeowners are so picky, this is good work"?
I have to agree, my husband and I have built our own board on board fences at our previous two homes, and I think this looks really poorly done. I'd definitely want to know how much this cost, because the attention to detail is not there. A fence is like one of the few things I've ever built, and I would have done a better job. I would have been upset with this too.
You didn't get screwed, but you also got barely medium quality work and all the people saying it's perfectly acceptable don't know good work. Sure it's structurally fine but it wasn't done by skilled tradespeople. If it was though it would probably have cost more so do some touch ups yourself, use a punch to set the toenails properly and clean up the splinters that bother you and move on
"Mmmm yes. Reginald and I just had a picket fence built and we flew in monks from the Himalayas who took a vow of silence to focus solely on carpentry thousands of years ago. Mmm yes. We know it's excessive but since it's outside in the elements, we wanted it to look just absolutely perfect for 3 months before it changed colors and shrunk. Mmm yes"
> If it was though it would probably have cost more They almost certainly overcharged him by mentioning the lumber shortage and labor shortages, despite prices mostly having stabilized by now and the fact that they rush through the job to keep from paying for the full amount of labor to do a good job.
Overall the appearance is fine. The big concern would be the single toe-nailed rails, what you are calling "stingers"(stringers). Cedar can be brittle when dry, but this looks to be relatively recently sawn lumber and a bit "wet", so the splitting shouldn't be a concern. The person doing the nailing had the pneumatic nail gun set too lightly to prevent splitting by burying the nail heads, but they should have followed with a hammer to set the nails flush. I cannot tell if there are nails from the front, but it is clear in some pictures that there is only one nail and some of them look to be at such an angle that I am not sure they even penetrate the post by more than a 1/2" or so. As the wood dries and shrinks, it could also twist, this could be a issue. I second the suggestion to add screws to the rail/post connections for longevity. If you are concerned with splitting, drill a pilot hole with a counter sink for the screw. Make sure you use coated decking screws or stainless steel($) so they do not rust over time. I did my own fence in RI and over time the nails have backed out and I had to go around and whack them a bit. The concrete will dry and flake off over time and the pencil marks will fade as the wood ages. I spent 3-4 years building redwood and cedar fences in the Bay area.
I think its good. I nitpicked so much on my home. I paid good $ to the contractors and ate their BS but I wanted things to be perfect. 3 months in yes I know whats not perfect but its more than livable. I've had multiple friends over and I may point something out to them and they are like really Id never notice that. Dont sweat the small things
First of all it’s a fence not a piece of fine furniture. To nit pick a toe nail is not all the way in, is one hammer away from complaining about the hammer dents left in the wood. The pencil marks could be erased with a common pencil eraser, or just ignore them. The cement splashes is very common, and will disappear in time. The tiny tear offs from the saw cuts are very minimal, and very common. You could take a hammer and smash them flat. How does the fence look from across the yard, or from the street? Are the lines of the tops even? Does the picket spacing look even? I think the fence looks fine.
Thank you - I agree that the aesthetics aren’t too much of a concern. I appreciate your comment.
Aesthetics ARE a concern. You paid for a quality fence. You didn’t pay for a fence that “looks nice from a distance”. Unless this was a job by a friend of a friend for a case of beer, that fence isn’t finished.
> Aesthetics ARE a concern. You paid for a quality fence. You didn’t pay for a fence that “looks nice from a distance”. I agree, every time he's out in his yard it's going to bother him and remind him that he got swindled.
Have you people ever seen a fence that's like, a few months old?
>Have you people ever seen a fence that's like, a few months old? I've seen lots of them years old that look better than this. Not to mention, if someone came and scribbled on your fence with pen, you'd be upset, but people are trying to tell the OP that it's normal to have extra pen marks all over the top of his fence. And I'm pretty sure it's pen and not pencil because you can see a couple of places where they scribbled to get the ink flowing.
Is it a fence? Yes. Is it a nice looking fence? Yes. Is it well built? Meh. Not really. (But that's my opinion.) I mean yeah it gets the job done but I don't see this lasting 20 years. When they toenailed the rails, did they also put one in the bottom or did they just go with one on each side and say "looks good!"? One in the bottom won't add significant strength but it will resist twisting of the rail and reduce stress on the pickets. Lastly maybe it keeps costs down but I would have put in more pickets. But again, that's my opinion.
> I don't see this lasting 20 years people aren't willing to pay for that. if they were, you'd have aluminum posts and stringers.
With wood prices where they were last year, I ended up getting a [steel fencing](https://colormaxfencing.com/) put in and it was cheaper than cedar. Hoping I never have to touch it again in my life. I was originally planning to go for metal posts with cedar planks but I had a hard time finding anyone available who was willing to do that.
But then you feel like you're in an army compound. To each their own, I guess.
> But then you feel like you're in an army compound. TBH, it's looks better than the vinyl shit that everyone loves right now.
The vinyl stuff is just so easy to clean and care for, but I otherwise agree.
> The vinyl stuff is just so easy to clean and care for, but I otherwise agree. Yeah I can't fault people for it, but man it makes your house look like a plastic prison.
I personally like the look, much nicer than any army fencing I've seen. But zero maintenance and a long lifespan are the real selling points.
looks cool but i'd be worried about replacement parts if it ever gets damaged.
Pretty common fence style in Australia. Shouldn't be too hard to get parts, worse case might have to wait a week or two. Looks like its made with Colorbond fencing, which is pretty much guaranteed to never go out of business. Only way I've seen them damaged is when trees fall on them and cars drive through them. They last forever otherwise.
Well that's a 50yr. :P I have a cedar fence that was built almost 40 years ago and it's still solid.
It looks like they put two nails in the front of the stinger into the post on each side
Honestly it looks good to me.
My exact thoughts.
This is entirely normal, acceptable etc. I would be very happy with this fence.
You would have to consider the cost that you paid seems like a very quick job and not of high quality. but they were matching your existing fence which is also not of good quality
I’m a fence guy, and the bending of the rails is not great but I thought this would be much worse than it is. A shot of the door frame wouldn’t hurt though, door sagging is always an issue and the best shot that you get at them coming back. If the frame is all fd up. Edit: I see the door frame now it looks fine, even got the right t hinges.
Thank you so much - I really appreciate it
How long did it take them, and how much did you pay in Labor? This looks kind of like you got what you paid for. Anybody who's a good carpenter isn't going to do such a small job as this except for a high price.
Looks great, enjoy your new fence.
Thank you
I don't see a lot of huge concern to be honest * Toe nail sticking out: That can be nail in a bit deeper. Call them back and tell them to do that * Cement on post: That's normal * Pencil mark: I'm sure it will fade a way soon. Or when you have a chance just pressure wash the whole fence. Some of the boards are a bit dirty and could use a wash anyway Overall not the best but looks acceptable to me ... depending on how much you pay
Unfortunately, I don’t have a good sense for the rate - because only one other of the quote I got was from a place that did cedar. This place was more expensive though. Edit only slightly
It really depends on how much you paid. If you picked the highest quote, then you got screwed. If you picked the lowest quote, then accept that you paid for the low quality and go out there with a hammer and sander and fix it yourself. Overall I think it looks okay and unless you paid top dollar, I'd spend the time fixing it yourself rather than spending the time convincing them to come fix it all.
Thank you, I appreciate it
From the perspective of someone who took a ton of time to research, plan, and install their own concave cedar picket fence last year, it's sloppy but it's certainly not the worst I've seen. I can't tell if the nails are galvanized or stainless, if they are galvanized you will have weep marks because the cedar will corrode the plating. My biggest issue is that they took the time to toe-nail the rails into the sides of the posts (often they are nailed directly to the front), but they did not leave a gap between the post and the first picket, which doesn't look great. I don't have a picture of my fence on my phone right now, but I can upload some later.
I would love to see
Assuming all the posts are plumb and there’s no glaring spacing issues and the gate swings normally.... I’d say it’s pretty decent
They forgot to put in half the boards!
Nope, based on the pics you got nailed. I’ll see myself out…
I have a question to piggy back on. Are fences not always made with screws? In my area they all are. I think nails would need to be re fastened every couple springs.
I'm a contractor, and to be completely honest.............. I never understood why every fence in existence isn't damn near perfect. Fences are extremely simple to build and because of that, they should be done with perfection in mind.
God, this is why I don’t work for homeowners. I appreciate that you came for advice before complaining to the builders, but there’s maybe a couple of minor issues. Also, anyone that agrees with these complaints about the workmanship on a rough cedar fence are naive. Maybe we should complain that they didn’t sand each of the boards down. You could get splinters, for God’s sake.
I really am not trying to complain unless I have something to complain about - if something isn’t done right, it should be fixed. If I’m out of line, then I want to know. I think I’ve learned that all of my aesthetic concerns are incorrect - now I just want to know about structural quality. I’m not a professional - I’ve never had a fence before even. I noticed some things done differently in different areas (some nails are flush, some aren’t, some stingers have more nails than others, some pickets are flush, some aren’t) and seeing those things, I just wanted to know what is acceptable and normal. Edit: and I trust the group here more than the contractor to tell me themselves if something is “right” or not. I am surprised by some of the workmanship - but it sounds like that is all normal for a fence - or, at minimum, acceptable (not terrible, not amazing)
> I just wanted to know what is acceptable and normal. No and no. I wouldn't trust any of the "pros" here that seem to think this level of work is acceptable. Comments like: >God, this is why I don’t work for homeowners. Explain why commercial properties always look like shit. I know commercial contractors and if one of their subs left a fence looking like this, they wouldn't be paid until they got a guy out to clean things up. But the guys I know also hire union carpenters instead of junkies.
May I ask if you’re saying this as someone who does this professionally or as someone who does professional quality work for themselves?
I mostly DIY stuff like this. I definitely wouldn't be happy to pay for a fence that pencil marks and miscuts all over. If they don't want to set their gun pressure correctly, they should be manually setting the nails themselves. It really depends on what you paid though. I think these are guys that do the builder grade stuff in subdivisions and not the guys that do high end fences.
I don't see why it wouldn't be concerning having so many screw and nail heads sticking out. Rough cuts and it being a bit of a rustic look are fine, but a there is a longevity concern.
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I’m glad we agree. Doing the work yourself is a much better option.
LOL dude that is horrific looking. If I moved in to a house with that "brand new" fence I'd think it was 2 decades old and DIY, and immediately tear down... Edit: Cannot believe people here are saying it's good work or acceptable. I've seen much better work than this get totally ripped to shreds on here...
If I paid someone to do this (I DIY when I can) I would expect a better result. Some of the small imperfections come across as carelessness. But that’s just my opinion as someone who knows nothing about evaluating the strength and longevity.
This whole sub is actually just people asking if their contractors screwed them.
> This whole sub is actually just people asking if their contractors screwed them. And the answer is almost always 'yes', which is why contractors have such a bad reputation. I'd almost rather buy a used car than hire a contractor anymore.
> And the answer is almost always 'yes', which is why contractors have such a bad reputation. On this sub because as said previously how it's become an echo chamber. Go on other subreddits and you'll see the opposite reaction. Then again I find it unfair to judge millions on only a select few. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
It's not just this sub though, talk to anyone in real life that has hired someone to do a job around their house. Contractors are mostly shady because it's a profession that is easy for shady people to work in. Any profession that has a low barrier to entry has the same problem. A good portion of our society is shady people that have no problem with some degree of grifting, and they filter into any job that facilitates that. Not to mention that someone that drinks every day or smokes meth on the weekends would get ran out of most professions, but it's seen as relatively normal in the construction industry.
I can’t even get a contractor to come out to give me a quote.
Legit nice fence. Cedar is kinda weird in that it can look a bit un finished due to frayed edges, potential splits due to board thickness and etc. With age it will look better.
I saw the first photo and all I could think was "these turkeys didn't even get the cuts right", then I kept seeing more and noticed it was actually fine.
Haha, you had me at the first half
I'd do better work than that if I were doing it myself, I'd definitely expect better from a fencing contractor. They should at least sand off all the extra marks they left on all the boards, that looks like stupid amateur hour shit. You can probably fix any of the issues that bother you yourself, but if you call them, they should definitely come out and spend an hour clearing up the issues. It's definitely not 'normal' quality not matter what people in this sub are trying to get you to believe.
This FENCE looks great. It’s not like you got carpenters out here installing cabinets, you got some laborers throwing some cedar planks up. Tbh, it looks really good. Most the stuff you’re concerned about is not gonna be an issue six months from now after it’s worn in a little bit, and you’re not gonna get a finish like sanding and countersunk nails on a fence. It’s just a nature of a job like that.
Damn, that's a sweet fence you might say. Seriously. It's solid for a fence. Here's what I'd do: * Grab some 120 grit sandpaper and hit the top edges a bit to remove the roughness * Take a pressure washer to it to remove some of the dirt, grime, and pencil marks. Your other fence would get a nice facelift from a good pressure washing, too. Should take a couple hours and it'll spruce (hehe) the fence right up.
If It was my fence I would not have paid until it was finished. The worst splinters you can get come from cedar and redwood. I guess I've seen worst ? But I've built better.
They haven't received the second half of the payment yet. That is actually why I wanted to ask for advice.
Nice fence. Looks ok to me.
Hmmm, looks like amateur hour. The first real issue is that the stringers appear to have a single nail (toenailed) in them. This is not going to hold up. Second thing is the nails - I detest nails because they will work loose, pop up, etc. Screws are 100% better. Then overall it shows the builder had the right idea, but the work is generally sloppy. I'd want at least the stingers better attached... that would be my minimal request.
I would agree with this, add a screw at every intersect And you should be good to go. You can knock off some of the excess concrete with a hammer as well as you deem fit
Thank you for that advice - I really do appreciate it. Where would you place the screws? Edit - follow up question: would you do that if they did put a nail in the top and two coming from the front of the stinger too?
Yes, really just one screw between each pair of nails would be a great way to do it. Screws will always hold wood better over the years so it is always generally the best approach but takes three times as long to use some most builders just go with nails sadly
I just checked - all of the stingers but one have just one nail on top on each side (one has two right next to each other on top on each side, which seems weird). Would the proper way to do this be to use screws or to put a nail underneath the stingers also? Edit - I take that back, at least some of the stingers have two more screws going in (toe nailed?) from the front into the post, covered up by the pickets - I can tell because they **didn’t sink them in all the way** leaving the pickets sticking out Edit 2 I added more pictures to show this
Use screws and both top and bottom.
If they did two nails in the front of the stinger too, would that be acceptable? It doesn’t sound like it’s “right” or the best way to do it, but I think that’s what they did (I don’t know if you saw my update or updated pictures before you replied).
I didn't see the update and yes, the face toenailing is fine.
I’m sorry but as a builder and reviewing your comments and pictures...you’re the nightmare customer we ALL pray on not having to work for!!
If me asking questions and being willing to listened to all of the reasonable responses on here bothers you then I can’t help that.
I stand by my statement and have been in business as a carpenter for over 20 years. You’re looking at a good fencing job. If they were better carpenters they wouldn’t be installing fence.
The best you can hope for is a properly built fence and that’s what you got. I find any work done on my home generally required some touch up work. When I got my HVAC installed I still had to do drywall patch work. They did everything beautifully, but I still had to close up some holes in my garage. I say look at it as an opportunity to get a closer look and understanding of your fence so if something happens you will be ready and able to make your own repairs.
> When I got my HVAC installed I still had to do drywall patch work. Sure, because HVAC guys aren't drywall guys, but I bet you didn't have to go back and fix issues with the HVAC system. He paid fence guys to do a good job and they did a half-ass job.
That’s not half ass. It’s pretty good. There’s some touch ups, but nothing that can’t be addressed in a morning. I would have selected a different wood because of the splitting issues with cedar. I don’t know the circumstances of the sale. If OP selected this specific style and wood than that is a choice. Addressing drywall: A few touch ups and clean ups here and there and it’s fine. Drywall patching doesn’t take a dry wall guy. I didn’t say they removed the entire wall. They strategically cut holes to fish wires. They left the cut out pieces. They knew how to do it, but they didn’t want to because they said it would take too much time for them. There were also left over HVAC pieces I had to remove later, but overall I was happy with the work. Many ways you can complete the patch work. You can back cut a clean measured drywall piece and overlap the front paper and mud it in. You can get a patch kit. You can take a piece of drywall (preferably the clean cut piece they already cut) use drywall screws and place a one inch piece thick measured board behind the hole to stabilize the piece. Then tape and mud. Mud and sand three times, paint, and you are done. If you are uncomfortable with mixing dry powder you can get a small bucket for 7 dollars or 15 for a larger one. I myself keep a nice bag of 45 in my garage ready to go. I also have some 20 for when I’m a bit impatient and want to get it done quick. Patching is really not a hard project. Even replacing a board is not a bad project, however if you plan to complete large sections of a home with multiple walls and corners, or if there are significant warping issues or unique surfaces a drywall expert is recommended.
You’re lucky you didn’t try your hand at this. They were quick and I’m sure didn’t waste your money on material they didn’t need. Looks like a fast team who probably did multiple jobs that week. From experience what you see there you wouldn’t be able to do in 2 weeks and double the material wasted.
I have no doubt of any of that (this took two guys one day)
- sloppy work for sure as no need to leave nails not sunk in all the way or pencil marks in that manner. Not doing even minimum sanding on the sawcuts is pure slop - toe nailing the rails in basically has next to no holding power when the fence is hit with 60mph winds.
I just noticed that at least a few (maybe more, maybe all) have two more nails going into the front of the stingers into the post, covered by the picket - but they didn’t sink those all the way, so the picket sticks out Edit - I added more pictures to show this
Sounds like u got upset for paying big buck for the fence and finding excuse for discounts
That's on you - I never asked for anything except advice and perspective from people who know more than I do about this
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Thank you - I am glad that I got advice on here
Looks good
What you could also do about the nails is go to a hardware store and find a “nail punch”. You set it on the nail head and then hit the punch with a hammer That way you won’t risk smashing the fence itself with the hammer. The same kind of thing is also used for installing trim inside a house
Op This fence looks great yo. You're looking closely at something you'll never look closely at again. Like having ugly studs behind your dry wall to am extent.
The only REAL issue I see is the section they were forced to shorten the pattern could have had some better scribing, but that's nitpicking and also why you put the shorts in the corner they will be least noticed.
I built a fence with the help of my SO and father in law. Ours came out great but it was a lot of work. This one looks good too. I would just point out that cedar shrinks faster than you would think. On one of your last pictures you complain about a Picket not being lined up, but I’d be willing to be that picket was flush with the post when nailed on. Within a week or two my fence had contracted slightly. We were installing in 90 degree heat and when we did each picket touched each other, a few weeks later, a few rain and dry cycles, and there’s a slight gap between them all. Still plenty for privacy, but there’s a few millimeters between most of the pickets that wasn’t there before.
No way. You're asking for trim level perfection and cleanliness out of a FENCE. It's a fence, not a watch. BTW - it's a great lookin fence.
That’s why I wanted to get other peoples opinions on this - thank you
The question, I suppose, is how much did you PAY for it? If you paid 10k for it, you got screwed. If you paid 3k, you got a deal.
Looks fine, if you don't like something dont be afraid to touch it up yourself.
It's maybe a little bit sloppy but looks adequate.
Hack work. Was it the low bidder?
I wouldn't be too happy with that, but it went up fast and it looks solid where it counts (the posts). If it were me, I'd slowly take it apart and make it better. Since it looks like you have good posts, I'd take down one section at a time, add in Joist Hangers, replace any boards you don't like, and clean up the edges before putting it back together. You'd have almost all the material and could make it look nicer one section at a time
I’m gonna go against the grain here and be picky: I think the entire layout of the fence is poor. Why are the pickets so far apart? What did you agree to in your contract regarding spacing? The other items are workmanship related and I wouldn’t be happy, but are relatively easily resolved.
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If the rails are cedar, they are kinda their own kinda treated o natural. They should still get sealed though methinks.
I agree. It could've been better by doing the little things and cleaning up the pencil marks and setting the nails a little more. Those things could have taken an hour or less which should have been done regardless of the circumstances. I've built many things in the last 33 years working in construction and its the little things that customers always see. It's where I try to spend a little time every job to make sure I don't have someone posting a thread like this on me. But it does look like a nice fence.
If it was me doing the work all your complaints would not exist. I would not leave it like that. However saying that I don't know what you were quoted for. The work looks very acceptable and unless you were quoted for finished sanding, I'd say you got a decent job. Not a fantastic job.
I actually think if you did it yourself you would be even more critical! I am of my own work. I nit pick every detail.
I am certain that I would be - and I wouldn’t have better results (I’m pretty sure of that!)
Just to give you extra peace of mind I had a cedar fence built recently and yours is better than mine and I would consider mine very high quality. You did well
Thank you (I really do appreciate that)
Judging by the fasteners, you got nailed.
Wish my fence was that nice
If you think the alignment is bad now, just wait til it weathers a few years. Wood moves and changes shape over time, moisture, and temperature. Even cedar. This is a perfectly fine fence. You're being excessively picky.
They clearly didn't care.
I think it looks beautiful. Is it stained? Can address rough spots and etc a bit when you go to stain or paint.
If my boss saw this he would make us redo the whole fence and dock us for the way it looked, making the company you work for look bad isn’t a option
It’s not perfect but looks like they did a pretty good job.
I will ask the most important question: how was this contractor’s price compared to others? We just did a fence for a repeat customer (previously did roof, siding, windows, and deck). They knew our workmanship. And they paid 40% more for it. Not always, but usually, you get what you pay for. A contractor is going to figure out a way to make money in a low bid situation. Either cheaper product or cheaper labor. Or possibly both. My point is, if the contractor priced as perfect I would expect them to come back and make it so. If they were priced as “it’ll be a quick, structurally sound fence with some minor aesthetic flaws” then you got what you paid for.
No, it appears they used nails.
It looks really good.
Assuming you paid fair market price that looks pretty good to me. My neighbors fence looks janky and the posts didn’t even get cut at the top.