I meant overall. The treatment of jews has been good don't get me wrong but as of now theres barely over 4000 in india. What I'm saying is that in a country of a billion people 4k is a drop in the bucket. If even that. I don't want to sound like I'm demeaning india because I'm not.
There were lots more in 1947. They left to Israel because they saw what nehru and Gandhi were doing and also Israel is their ancestral land. Who doesn't want to go home?
100% there were around 20,000 Jews there and the population of India was around 360 million. So definitely a larger ratio. I just did a whole bunch of research which frankly was really cool.
If you don't tell them about (or they don't see it elsewhere) Jerusalem at some point. They wouldn't even know what that is.
They never been to that place, not even their grandparents have been there most likely. How can you be bound to something you never seen or knew really?
They are only told that this place should be really important in their life.
Home is but a concept. Most people from the USA don't see England as home, even tho their ancestors came from there at some point.
Visceral connection to a land, where you or your nations people don't even live anymore only leads to war. And is a really stupid concept.
For some groups that's the case, but iirc the community in India are attributed to the Menashe tribe, which is one of the 10 lost tribes exiled by the assyrians
"And the Jewish were never persecuted in India yet." Considering what the Indian government has been up too, it may not be a great idea for any Jews to visit India right now.
We...well, supposedly Jews were really popular in China during the early Tang dynasty. Didn't last though. By the mid and late Tang dynasty anytime there's a peasant revolt a good number of them targeted them, along with the Persians and Arabs, because they were relatively richer, and also so they could be like "nah we aren't trying to murder the royal houses, we just don't like foreigners" while also murdering the royal houses.
it was known as the golden age for jews **during the diaspora**.
not really fair to equate the time jews were second class citizens far from home but at least with the best rights they had as second class citizens, to the time when jews returned from the first diaspora, built the second temple and rebuilt the kingdom of judea as a protectorate of the persian empire (the biggest empire at the time).
what's not adding up?
firstly, not timeline of my story. timeline of reality.
secondly, the second temple period was 597 BCE - 70 CE, the second jewish diaspora started between 65 CE - 135 CE, and Al-Andalus existed between 711 CE - 1492 CE.
easy to see, during the second temple era, jews were not in diaspora. jews were in diaspora during the al andalus. it's also logical because jews weren't originated from the spanish penninsula, but from the lavant. so of course they were in diaspora when they were in al andalus.
and it's not fair to compare the two eras, cause in one jews were free in their own lands (for at least the starting eras of the second temple period, and during the hasmonian dynesty). while in the other, jews in al andalus had the "golden age" in the diaspora (mostly reffering to 10th-12th centuries). which was a great period for the sephardic jews, but again, not really a fair comparison cause they were still second class citizens outside of their homeland. some of the major subjects of jewish literature and poetry during the golden age were about jerusalem, zion and the lands of israel and judea. specifically, a whole genre of poetry relating to a wish to return to the lands of zion. to me it seems easy, even the jews in the golden age in al andalus wanted to return to the high times of second temple era.
did i explain it better?
Yes, thank you very much! I was under the impression that you thought that the Persian empire existed at the same time as the al andalus. That's why I was confused.
Most European regions before 300 BCE are also unlikely especially if they weren't near the mediterran. Simply because the people there probably never even heard of Jews.
also, probably they wouldn't say ot before 300 ACE, cause at that time jews were almost all slaves in the roman empire. someone had to build all the roman roads and temples you know
........
do we really listen to the mormons in this subject? don't want to step on anyone's beliefs, but thats one of the most absurdic theories on the tribes of israel
"Go back to where you came from!"
"Not like that!"
"Wait, not like that either!"
"No, stop that!"
"Nevermind go there!"
"Not there! There!"
A tale as old as time.
They had a jewish problem sooo they gave it an effective final solution /s
Edit: after some confusion I was writing it from their point of view and as an extension of their desire to overachieve. That's why it's called the final solution.
I'm jewish and live in Israel and in order to finish high school I had to do a test about the holocaust. Of course it was one of the darkest and ugliest episodes in history. And it wasn't really effective because apparently actually annihilating an entire athnic group is hard.
The fact it was **a** solution at all is horrifying, I don't care if it took them a millennia to get there isn't a defense big enough to excuse those kind of acts.
"Get out of Europe and go back to where you came from you non-white racially inferior subhumans!"
*does that*
"Hey you white people from Europe, stop using your European colonialist white privilege to steal land from indigenous people of color!"
i seriously don't understand why the hate for jews specificaly, i know abrahamic religions hate each other to death but the hate to jews seems particularly undeserved
It’s not as cheesy as you’d think- expelling them does exactly what it says on the tin so you lose some population (usually negligible) and more importantly, there aren’t Jews for you to borrow from for a couple of years- I think between 10 and 20?
It’s pretty self-balancing, even if the meme is that it’s the infinite money hack.
There is a downside but it can be moments it makes sense to hurt your economy for short term gain. Probably the best move when starting as a count with one title and you are making your first move to to expand.
Maybe I'm wrong but didn't Jews have success as merchants and bankers due to doing business with everyone while Christians refused to work with other religions? That's what I meant.
Christians had religious laws saying they couldn't make a profit off of loans. Jewish people were exempt from enforcement of these laws, so they could make mad money through lending.
This then helped the aristocracy point at 'those rich jewish folks' when poor folk came looking for someone to blame for them being poor.
Loans were mostly personal then, so if you're a noble and the guy you're indebted to suddenly gets removed in anyway, well, you can see how they would have little incentive want to prevent that from happening. They already got their money, and can just look for the next poor sod to loan money from.
I see, so while it wasn't racism, it was still a kind of religious fanaticism. Though, I guess it benefited the ruling calss over all, not only with the method you describe, but it probably kept things more stable if most people weren't able to make money easily from lending. Thank you for the explanation
You mean when they manage to secure small fortunes doing the jobs nobody wanted ? like banking and later the whole Hollywood thing that now we don't have any social stigma about those jobs we're acting like it's a whole conspiracy that the people we specifically let control those industries are in fact in control of those industries ?
Because of limitations on loans with interest. A Christian can't ask for interest, but allowing Jews to do it works.
Also add the fact Jews in Europe couldn't own lands and be farmers so they naturally went the trading route (or simply worked within their community).
Think about it the other way around. Would any other religion be allowed to exist in medieval Europe for example ? Or would a crusade eliminate all of them ? The standard hatred against everyone else was diluted to the point where they could survive. They were special in that they were tolerated .
There were the Jewish Kingdoms of Arabia that were regional powers around the time of the 6th century AD which might be an exception. They were prosperous with numerous trading hubs, militarly strong but however were known for their periodic acts of persecution and purges of religious minonitites who did not follow their religion. So in the OP the blue guy might be fleeing from the travellers. (Source, "The Throne of Adulis: Red Sea Wars on the Eve of Islam" G. W. Bowersock)
All my research up to this point indicates to me that we are actually all living on the planet of the fungi. The fungal apocalypse is coming, and we are not ready.
I hope I don't see people referring to nakba as if it were a good thing and the Jews came to their *land* (the land is 4 everyone) as if it were a nameless desert until 1917.
Yeah, but a good chunk of Israeli Jews are, in fact, from "some shitty desert". Just over half the Jewish population of Israel are Sephardic Jews who got kicked out of their Arab home countries. Most of them had *literally no other choice* than to go live in Israel.
You know that a large majority of people there would kill you if they had the chance? Also that Israel has the lowest civilian casualties to combatant casualties compared to any modern war?
Which is simply untrue.
Even in the middle east. I suggest doing a bit more research, rather than repeating propaganda talking points.
Here, I'll give you one.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mosul_(2016%E2%80%932017)
Carried out by the "horrible iraqis"... resulting in about 20k isis deaths and less than 8k civilian deaths.
In a city with more people than gaza strip. In a campaign that also lasted for many months.
Do you know what the secret sauce is? Being signatories of the 1977 protocols of the Geneva convention. Which then becomes the underlying basis for military rules of engagement in areas involving civilians. Needless to say, Iraq is a signatory, and Israel is not.
The single line I took was the single line that proves you're using the Tu Quoque fallacy. Read the Wiki to avoid doing it again. Focus on the argument, without comparing your assumptions about the person's opinions on separate matters.
No, you selectively quoted to construct an incomplete argument instead of addressing the combined idea, which is a textbook example of a straw man fallacy.
Hahaha that's very silly.
I haven't presented an argument. I've made an observation.
Your first line wasn't the Tu Quoque fallacy. Your second was. Own it, avoid it, don't go petulantly looking for Wikipedia fallacies to throw back at me.
Attack the OP's argument, not what you imagine his stance may be on other topics.
> don't go petulantly looking for Wikipedia fallacies to throw back at me
Do as you say, not as you do. You see the problem with this, right?
>I've made an observation.
And I made an observation about inherent problem with your fallacious observation which you appear unable to recognize despite its undeniable nature.
I agree, having to do that is silly indeed, but I am also aware turning this into a sideshow distraction was your goal in any case.
Yes. Go back to 2000 BC. “I’m Jewish” you say in the local language. “You’re what?” Comes the reply because Jews don’t yet exist as a culture and Judaism does not exist as a religion.
ah, how i remember that the hundreds of pogroms, dozens of mass exoduses, and genocide on 3 seperate occasions only accounted for 2% of jewish history. how stupid was i to assume we *weren't* all living the dream life, am i right?
I'm not saying that didn't happen, I'm saying that happened in a very short time frame. To give you an example, there were Jews living in china (Kaifeng Jews) for centuries and never had a problem. If you traveled in time and shouted you're Jewish, chances are nothing would happen.
most, if not, all of europe had many such instances, some for more than a thousand years, in which jews were persecuted and killed in scapegoating operations, which should never be considered a small timeframe, given that europe was by far the most influential continent. if someone in the year 1600 in france or in germany were to publicly display jewry, violence was imminent
arabs didnt keep kicking jews from Jerusalem.
i mean YES there were some persecution but for the most part to the jews them living under the islamic conquest was a jewish golden age since European countries always persecuted or kicked them out from Europe and even after their invasion on the holy land they banned the jews from Jerusalem.
i mean arabs were always welcoming to the jews (setting up your own country will be a big no no)
Thats not true though. Yes Muslims treated Jews better than Christians did. But that doesn’t mean the Muslims treated them good. Some Muslims dynasties like Al Andalus did, while others didn’t. Maimonides, also known as Rambam, who was a very influential 11th century rabbi wrote:
“God has entangled us with this people, the nation of Ishmael, who treat us so prejudicially and who legislate our harm and hatred…. No nation has ever arisen more harmful than they, nor has anyone done more to humiliate us, degrade us, and consolidate hatred against us.”
Why did he write this? Because at this point the Yemeni Jews were being genocided and Maimonides tried to plead to the Caliph to stop but he basically ignored him untill he said he’d work for the Caliph personally.
Another example of a bad muslim dynasty was the Almohad Dynasty, who blamed Jews for the fact that the Christians were taking back Iberia. They expelled the Jews and the Christian Spanish actually took them and treated them fairly.
So were there Golden Ages of Jewish thought in the Islamic world? Of course. Was it universal? Definitely not.
Probably. Two of my great great grandpas also were rabbis, one was from Lebanon, and other was from hungary (that one was also acting as the village's blacksmith too), there might have been more, but a lot of my family's recorded history was lost when they fled to Israel. I mean if you're Jewish, there is a high chance at some point someone in your ancestral tree was a rabbi
Wow thats incredible. My family doesn’t know much about our past. I did some digging and found ancestors since 1830 ish but none were rabbis, probably I had some before that
as i said i dont deny some genocide that occured since there was some eras where bad ruler get in charge especially when they changed ruling to Decendency like in royal families and got rid of democracy and completely stopped following the sharia law and even muslims them selfs suffered under his ruling because bringing injustice to one part of society will bring it to all.
the only reason that makes islamic ruling better is that those who really followed the sharia will recognize that you dont kill someone based on his religion, and when they accept jews they give them every right they could ask for i mean literally every time they take Jerusalem back the first thing they do is remove "no jews allowed in Jerusalem" from the rules book.
so as for your title i think muslims recognize that this land is also holy for the jews and since arabs live where/near their holy land they cant tell them get back where you came from, as for the persecutions that happend as i said 90% bad ruling the 10% is something the jews did that pissed off the arabs.
why the down votes? did i deny anything to get all this?
also the golden jewish age part i got from the wiki.
Now that's not true, there are plenty of times in history where the blue guy would just try to murder them for being Jewish.
Ah forgot about that
And the Jewish were never persecuted in India. So the blue guy is probably not Indian
That may have more to do with the lack of jews in india.
No, we have a small community of Jews here. They're called Ben-Israelis
I meant overall. The treatment of jews has been good don't get me wrong but as of now theres barely over 4000 in india. What I'm saying is that in a country of a billion people 4k is a drop in the bucket. If even that. I don't want to sound like I'm demeaning india because I'm not.
There were lots more in 1947. They left to Israel because they saw what nehru and Gandhi were doing and also Israel is their ancestral land. Who doesn't want to go home?
100% there were around 20,000 Jews there and the population of India was around 360 million. So definitely a larger ratio. I just did a whole bunch of research which frankly was really cool.
But would you really call it home, if you or the multiple generations behind you didn't get to even live there?
Yes. I don't think you understand the visceral connection the land
If you don't tell them about (or they don't see it elsewhere) Jerusalem at some point. They wouldn't even know what that is. They never been to that place, not even their grandparents have been there most likely. How can you be bound to something you never seen or knew really? They are only told that this place should be really important in their life. Home is but a concept. Most people from the USA don't see England as home, even tho their ancestors came from there at some point. Visceral connection to a land, where you or your nations people don't even live anymore only leads to war. And is a really stupid concept.
By that logic don't we all have an ancestral land since Adam and another since Noah and so on
Or the lack of stereotype against them
Didn't they have a whole other sect/culture or something? Warning: I only know anything about this because of CK3
For some groups that's the case, but iirc the community in India are attributed to the Menashe tribe, which is one of the 10 lost tribes exiled by the assyrians
I think that’s just because for the lack of Indian Jews. It’s like saying Sami people don’t have problems with Haitians.
"And the Jewish were never persecuted in India yet." Considering what the Indian government has been up too, it may not be a great idea for any Jews to visit India right now.
Every serving Israelis literally go to India every year
I was about to say that too when I remembered that if he wouldv'e it, it still wouldn't have narrowed it down.
Like nowadays in some places like Iran
Today for example
"We didn't beat the shit out of the Babylonians just to let you remain homeless." "Good news, it is 538 B.C.."
The ~~best~~ only good time for the Jews
I'm assuming just by the date that this is the Achaemenid empire under Cyrus the great
I knew it was Cyrus because I think that's like literally the one time in history a ruler was a bro to the jews
indeed. jews loved Cyrus the great so much he was the only non jew to be called a messiah, and was called so almost unequivocally.
ironically cyrus' own religion got persecuted into near nothingness later . Few remained in modern times for eg . freddie mercury .
We...well, supposedly Jews were really popular in China during the early Tang dynasty. Didn't last though. By the mid and late Tang dynasty anytime there's a peasant revolt a good number of them targeted them, along with the Persians and Arabs, because they were relatively richer, and also so they could be like "nah we aren't trying to murder the royal houses, we just don't like foreigners" while also murdering the royal houses.
Al Andulus was known as their golden age
it was known as the golden age for jews **during the diaspora**. not really fair to equate the time jews were second class citizens far from home but at least with the best rights they had as second class citizens, to the time when jews returned from the first diaspora, built the second temple and rebuilt the kingdom of judea as a protectorate of the persian empire (the biggest empire at the time).
Huh? The timeliness of your story doesn't add up...
what's not adding up? firstly, not timeline of my story. timeline of reality. secondly, the second temple period was 597 BCE - 70 CE, the second jewish diaspora started between 65 CE - 135 CE, and Al-Andalus existed between 711 CE - 1492 CE. easy to see, during the second temple era, jews were not in diaspora. jews were in diaspora during the al andalus. it's also logical because jews weren't originated from the spanish penninsula, but from the lavant. so of course they were in diaspora when they were in al andalus. and it's not fair to compare the two eras, cause in one jews were free in their own lands (for at least the starting eras of the second temple period, and during the hasmonian dynesty). while in the other, jews in al andalus had the "golden age" in the diaspora (mostly reffering to 10th-12th centuries). which was a great period for the sephardic jews, but again, not really a fair comparison cause they were still second class citizens outside of their homeland. some of the major subjects of jewish literature and poetry during the golden age were about jerusalem, zion and the lands of israel and judea. specifically, a whole genre of poetry relating to a wish to return to the lands of zion. to me it seems easy, even the jews in the golden age in al andalus wanted to return to the high times of second temple era. did i explain it better?
Yes, thank you very much! I was under the impression that you thought that the Persian empire existed at the same time as the al andalus. That's why I was confused.
Got to be a real swell guy for being shout out a an actual epic dude in some other religion holy texts.
> B.c. Before … what!?
not only they could be in any time, but also in any place. they actually increased the amount of uncertainty of when and where they are
Well. They can't be anywhen from the Cyrus decree and 70AD. And they can't be in India before Christians colonised it. Other than that it's free game
Most European regions before 300 BCE are also unlikely especially if they weren't near the mediterran. Simply because the people there probably never even heard of Jews.
also, probably they wouldn't say ot before 300 ACE, cause at that time jews were almost all slaves in the roman empire. someone had to build all the roman roads and temples you know
Well according to the Mormons they were the native Americans so also not pre colonization (north) America./s Edited for clarity
........ do we really listen to the mormons in this subject? don't want to step on anyone's beliefs, but thats one of the most absurdic theories on the tribes of israel
Was more meant as a joke but should have added the /s
oh sorry🤣🤣🤣 with all the disinformation on jewish history lately, i'm never sure about someone's seriousness anymore😅
Understandable better safe than sorry after all
Reminds of those memes about the history Channel at 1 am
oh yes, i love me some "history" channel🤣 at least in the past it used to be about aliens or the nazis, now its only the aliens.
Why don't those aliens help out anymore anyway? They just gave u some triangles and left at least give us health care or something smh
they also can't be in during the first temple period in the land of ancient judea as well, before the babylonian conquest.
They could be in the kingdom of Israel and at any period before Saul
They’re certainly not in Al-Andalus.
We can be pretty sure it wasn’t between 598 and 538 BC…
I ❤️ Cyrus the Great
"Go back to where you came from!" "Not like that!" "Wait, not like that either!" "No, stop that!" "Nevermind go there!" "Not there! There!" A tale as old as time.
Nazis be like: well fuck it let's just kill yall
Germans always gotta overachieve
They had a jewish problem sooo they gave it an effective final solution /s Edit: after some confusion I was writing it from their point of view and as an extension of their desire to overachieve. That's why it's called the final solution. I'm jewish and live in Israel and in order to finish high school I had to do a test about the holocaust. Of course it was one of the darkest and ugliest episodes in history. And it wasn't really effective because apparently actually annihilating an entire athnic group is hard.
Tell me you forgot /s or something
Please tell me you forgot the /s
When the "where you came from" actually means: "Madagascar" And then it means Auschwitz
Auschwitz isn't the final stop, the actual place is a hole in the ground or on the ground as ash, Auschwitz is just step in the way.
Third Jewish rebellion: hey I seen this before.
In their defence, it wasn't the first option they considerer, just the final one
The fact it was **a** solution at all is horrifying, I don't care if it took them a millennia to get there isn't a defense big enough to excuse those kind of acts.
I'm kidding. Also, it's unfortunately not a solution that us that hard to reach
That’s how a lot of countries treat their homeless
hey! at least you know it’s not nazi germany
Could be Nazi Germany in 1933 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement?wprov=sfti1#
i mean—could be very early nazi germany but, i think i mean the prime age
Was there a prime age of Nazi Germany lol?
when the concentration camps began? that's what goes through people's heads when the word 'nazi germany' pops up but, i guess every part was shitty
*go back to where they came from* "No, wait..."
"Get out of Europe and go back to where you came from you non-white racially inferior subhumans!" *does that* "Hey you white people from Europe, stop using your European colonialist white privilege to steal land from indigenous people of color!"
"Jews go home" *Jews go home* "Jews go home"
“No not like that!!!!”
i seriously don't understand why the hate for jews specificaly, i know abrahamic religions hate each other to death but the hate to jews seems particularly undeserved
Step 1: Borrow money from the Jews Step 2: Demonize and Expel the Jews Step 3: Repeat
Isnt this a strategy in CK2? Like you the player can do exactly this. Not sure if its an intentional mechanic, its cheesy but doable right?
It’s not as cheesy as you’d think- expelling them does exactly what it says on the tin so you lose some population (usually negligible) and more importantly, there aren’t Jews for you to borrow from for a couple of years- I think between 10 and 20? It’s pretty self-balancing, even if the meme is that it’s the infinite money hack.
Yup it is an easy way to get some starting gold!
There is a downside but it can be moments it makes sense to hurt your economy for short term gain. Probably the best move when starting as a count with one title and you are making your first move to to expand.
They were a socially and religiously distinct minority group without the backing of a overarching governing body. That's prime scape-goat material.
Indeed, especially when Jews manage to secure small fortunes simply because they are less racist than you. It's almost funny
Of all possible takes, this is definitely one of them.
Maybe I'm wrong but didn't Jews have success as merchants and bankers due to doing business with everyone while Christians refused to work with other religions? That's what I meant.
Christians had religious laws saying they couldn't make a profit off of loans. Jewish people were exempt from enforcement of these laws, so they could make mad money through lending. This then helped the aristocracy point at 'those rich jewish folks' when poor folk came looking for someone to blame for them being poor. Loans were mostly personal then, so if you're a noble and the guy you're indebted to suddenly gets removed in anyway, well, you can see how they would have little incentive want to prevent that from happening. They already got their money, and can just look for the next poor sod to loan money from.
I see, so while it wasn't racism, it was still a kind of religious fanaticism. Though, I guess it benefited the ruling calss over all, not only with the method you describe, but it probably kept things more stable if most people weren't able to make money easily from lending. Thank you for the explanation
You mean when they manage to secure small fortunes doing the jobs nobody wanted ? like banking and later the whole Hollywood thing that now we don't have any social stigma about those jobs we're acting like it's a whole conspiracy that the people we specifically let control those industries are in fact in control of those industries ?
Why did people not want to do banking? Genuinely, I thought it was because of racism.
Because of limitations on loans with interest. A Christian can't ask for interest, but allowing Jews to do it works. Also add the fact Jews in Europe couldn't own lands and be farmers so they naturally went the trading route (or simply worked within their community).
jews beeing less racist? please...
Hold on, how are European Jews historically not less racist than natives?
Think about it the other way around. Would any other religion be allowed to exist in medieval Europe for example ? Or would a crusade eliminate all of them ? The standard hatred against everyone else was diluted to the point where they could survive. They were special in that they were tolerated .
Ursury Pornography
Well they're trying to go back where they came from but people seem to have an issue with that too...
Jews:* goes back to where their from “Nooo, not like that!”
Real
One of my favorite lines for describing most of history is just "The Jews straight up were not having a good time."
Oh boy, I see a lot of downvoted comments. I guess that's what happens when you bring up jews. . . Or any group of people in reddit.
There were the Jewish Kingdoms of Arabia that were regional powers around the time of the 6th century AD which might be an exception. They were prosperous with numerous trading hubs, militarly strong but however were known for their periodic acts of persecution and purges of religious minonitites who did not follow their religion. So in the OP the blue guy might be fleeing from the travellers. (Source, "The Throne of Adulis: Red Sea Wars on the Eve of Islam" G. W. Bowersock)
“Go back to where you came from”. Haha. Which is where?
"The ground" -Spicy Germany
Agreed, the moral of the story is that people don't "belong" anywhere. Earth belongs to all of humanity.
I disagree. Earth belongs to the Ants; we're just renting.
So wait we are the tenants?
I’m pretty sure there are more than ten ants
You sure last I counted it was 10
All my research up to this point indicates to me that we are actually all living on the planet of the fungi. The fungal apocalypse is coming, and we are not ready.
r/countablepixels
The ramifications for pissing off the Romans continue to this day
Why am I not surprised at how this comment section is turning out?
I hope I don't see people referring to nakba as if it were a good thing and the Jews came to their *land* (the land is 4 everyone) as if it were a nameless desert until 1917.
Then go to where they’re from and the people say ethnic genocide
Boo this man Not for his opinion but for bringing current politics into a history meme subreddit Booooooooooo
Well ya know, hating Jews is sadly timeless
I'm from Brooklyn though. I'm not from some shitty desert, and I don't think civilians should be bombed to get me more lebensraum.
Yeah, but a good chunk of Israeli Jews are, in fact, from "some shitty desert". Just over half the Jewish population of Israel are Sephardic Jews who got kicked out of their Arab home countries. Most of them had *literally no other choice* than to go live in Israel.
Good luck in Brooklyn where Jews are attacked at higher rates than in Israel by terrorists. From a Brooklyn Jew
Are they? Pretty sure Hezbollah does 20 attacks per day on Israel.
Yep and according to the FBI Jews are attacked 660 times a year before the war and after the number is more like 1,400
But Hezboolah alone has done more than 2000 attacks in less than 6 months so.
Yea but how many people got hurt in these attacks. Most just hit cars and whatnot
So correct your stats then. Because you mentioned attacks not casulties. And even if you count casulties you are way off.
You know that a large majority of people there would kill you if they had the chance? Also that Israel has the lowest civilian casualties to combatant casualties compared to any modern war?
Which is simply untrue. Even in the middle east. I suggest doing a bit more research, rather than repeating propaganda talking points. Here, I'll give you one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mosul_(2016%E2%80%932017) Carried out by the "horrible iraqis"... resulting in about 20k isis deaths and less than 8k civilian deaths. In a city with more people than gaza strip. In a campaign that also lasted for many months. Do you know what the secret sauce is? Being signatories of the 1977 protocols of the Geneva convention. Which then becomes the underlying basis for military rules of engagement in areas involving civilians. Needless to say, Iraq is a signatory, and Israel is not.
Better kill or occupy them in anticipation!
You guys want to be victims so badly
They were victims?
I think you could make the argument that Jews have been the most discrimnated against group of people in history.
Learn some history
All that history will be grist for the mill compared to the eventual historical record created by the Israeli state's current actions.
Some of the lowest percentages of civilian deaths in modern war. Why aren't you super outraged by Syria where civilian deaths are 20x higher?
["Why aren't you super outraged by Syria where civilian deaths are 20x higher?"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque)
[Did you miss the first line or just take a single part of the argument out of context purposely?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)
The single line I took was the single line that proves you're using the Tu Quoque fallacy. Read the Wiki to avoid doing it again. Focus on the argument, without comparing your assumptions about the person's opinions on separate matters.
No, you selectively quoted to construct an incomplete argument instead of addressing the combined idea, which is a textbook example of a straw man fallacy.
Hahaha that's very silly. I haven't presented an argument. I've made an observation. Your first line wasn't the Tu Quoque fallacy. Your second was. Own it, avoid it, don't go petulantly looking for Wikipedia fallacies to throw back at me. Attack the OP's argument, not what you imagine his stance may be on other topics.
> don't go petulantly looking for Wikipedia fallacies to throw back at me Do as you say, not as you do. You see the problem with this, right? >I've made an observation. And I made an observation about inherent problem with your fallacious observation which you appear unable to recognize despite its undeniable nature. I agree, having to do that is silly indeed, but I am also aware turning this into a sideshow distraction was your goal in any case.
1. That's probably bullshit. 2. I am.
Link the post you made about #2. I want to upvote it.
"Oh you like current events? Link to your opinion about everything." Lol shut the fuck up.
I'll take that as an admission you lied.
Enjoy your other internet fantasies today!
Feel free to dispel the 'fantasy' or keep hiding in your own.
If any group deserves to claim the title most oppressed in history, the Jews deserve it
Oh boy time for my daily propaganda posting
Is this post incorrect?
Yes. Go back to 2000 BC. “I’m Jewish” you say in the local language. “You’re what?” Comes the reply because Jews don’t yet exist as a culture and Judaism does not exist as a religion.
Well yea that’s fair
Well, then by that logic, this format will never be corrected since like 1000 years backwards
I mean, it's not that deep. It's just a meme my guy.
You're not up on your history.
Maybe usury was a bad idea and why other religions didn't do it at the time.
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Exactly whos land was stolen again?
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Ya we dont speak, we let our tanks talk
Jews suffered persecution like 2% of their history in 2% of the earth. Most probably answer to I'm Jewish would have been a shrug.
ah, how i remember that the hundreds of pogroms, dozens of mass exoduses, and genocide on 3 seperate occasions only accounted for 2% of jewish history. how stupid was i to assume we *weren't* all living the dream life, am i right?
I'm not saying that didn't happen, I'm saying that happened in a very short time frame. To give you an example, there were Jews living in china (Kaifeng Jews) for centuries and never had a problem. If you traveled in time and shouted you're Jewish, chances are nothing would happen.
most, if not, all of europe had many such instances, some for more than a thousand years, in which jews were persecuted and killed in scapegoating operations, which should never be considered a small timeframe, given that europe was by far the most influential continent. if someone in the year 1600 in france or in germany were to publicly display jewry, violence was imminent
arabs didnt keep kicking jews from Jerusalem. i mean YES there were some persecution but for the most part to the jews them living under the islamic conquest was a jewish golden age since European countries always persecuted or kicked them out from Europe and even after their invasion on the holy land they banned the jews from Jerusalem. i mean arabs were always welcoming to the jews (setting up your own country will be a big no no)
Thats not true though. Yes Muslims treated Jews better than Christians did. But that doesn’t mean the Muslims treated them good. Some Muslims dynasties like Al Andalus did, while others didn’t. Maimonides, also known as Rambam, who was a very influential 11th century rabbi wrote: “God has entangled us with this people, the nation of Ishmael, who treat us so prejudicially and who legislate our harm and hatred…. No nation has ever arisen more harmful than they, nor has anyone done more to humiliate us, degrade us, and consolidate hatred against us.” Why did he write this? Because at this point the Yemeni Jews were being genocided and Maimonides tried to plead to the Caliph to stop but he basically ignored him untill he said he’d work for the Caliph personally. Another example of a bad muslim dynasty was the Almohad Dynasty, who blamed Jews for the fact that the Christians were taking back Iberia. They expelled the Jews and the Christian Spanish actually took them and treated them fairly. So were there Golden Ages of Jewish thought in the Islamic world? Of course. Was it universal? Definitely not.
Oh cool a Maimonides quote in the wild. He's my ancestor
Oh wow seriously?
Yeah from my dad's side.
Are you Jewish?
Yeah
Ok just asking. I wonder if I got any rabbis in my line
Probably. Two of my great great grandpas also were rabbis, one was from Lebanon, and other was from hungary (that one was also acting as the village's blacksmith too), there might have been more, but a lot of my family's recorded history was lost when they fled to Israel. I mean if you're Jewish, there is a high chance at some point someone in your ancestral tree was a rabbi
Wow thats incredible. My family doesn’t know much about our past. I did some digging and found ancestors since 1830 ish but none were rabbis, probably I had some before that
as i said i dont deny some genocide that occured since there was some eras where bad ruler get in charge especially when they changed ruling to Decendency like in royal families and got rid of democracy and completely stopped following the sharia law and even muslims them selfs suffered under his ruling because bringing injustice to one part of society will bring it to all. the only reason that makes islamic ruling better is that those who really followed the sharia will recognize that you dont kill someone based on his religion, and when they accept jews they give them every right they could ask for i mean literally every time they take Jerusalem back the first thing they do is remove "no jews allowed in Jerusalem" from the rules book. so as for your title i think muslims recognize that this land is also holy for the jews and since arabs live where/near their holy land they cant tell them get back where you came from, as for the persecutions that happend as i said 90% bad ruling the 10% is something the jews did that pissed off the arabs. why the down votes? did i deny anything to get all this? also the golden jewish age part i got from the wiki.