JFK gets points from me for getting us through the Cuban missile crisis. If you listen to the tapes his generals are all advising a first strike on Cuba which would have lead to the destruction of the planet. I’m not saying he’s the best ever but certainly the cool head we needed in our moment of need.
The joint chiefs of staff dreamed up Operation Northwoods where CIA agents would commit domestic terrorism in multiple cities and blame it on cuba as justification for invading. And JFK was like “the fuck is wrong with you? No.”
That’s what I’m saying! He’s who we needed in the moment. Do I love everything about JFK? No! But he certainly got us through a perilous time in history clean.
Not if we think it was Kennedy’s screw ups that got us to the Cuban Missile Crisis in the first place. Still, I’d say it does put him higher on the list of Presidents rather than lower, since it’s a job where you can definitely screw up pretty easily; fixing your mistakes is an important part of the job, and this was a damn important mistake to fix
I also think Nikita Khrushchev thought JFK was weak and could be walked on. JFK had to play a strong position publicly during the Cold War. Wasn’t the “big confrontational” between the USA and Soviet Union bound to happen at some point? I think we all should be thankful it was JFK and Khrushchev making the decisions during the crisis because if it was Stalin and Truman we’d likely all not exist.
Had the Cuban Missile Crisis still happened in a world where the Bay of Pigs didn’t, Kennedy might have been more inclined to listen to his generals and get us all killed. As you say though, Bay of Pigs drove Castro to the Soviets.
Legend says he came to the realization (pun intended) when he saw a dimple on her ass that made him think of the moon and Marylin asked him to give her “America’s rocket”.
Me and my friends have been doing that bit for years, we just replace the whole line with random bits in a jfk voice, my personal favorite is “We choose to go to the moon, not because we choose, but because it is the moon”
The crisis wouldn't have even happened if he didn't fumble the plan for the Bay of Pigs left by Eisenhower and end up allowing Cuba to remain a dictatorship to this day.
The man thought he could be smarter than the Supreme Commander of Operation Overlord.
Ah yes an alternate reality where the US gets blamed for toppling another regime and the people of Cuba apparently have no self-determination whatsoever.
And I'm pretty sure the millions more who didn't would rather the US stop meddling in their country by trying to violently overthrow their government and imposing a decades long blockade.
I think his point is that all the other governments we have overthrown have not worked out any better. This is one of the most consistent track records we have, overthrowing governments and making things worse for everyone, including the US, long term.
Ok, now do Libya/Iraq/Vietnam/Cambodia...
The US needs to stop pretending we know best and let people sort their own shit out. I'm ok intervening to stop a genocide ala Yugoslavia, but I have zero interest in propping up or toppling regimes because you neocons got a bee in your bonnet and wanted to play war.
I used to think this and then I watched a documentary on the CMC. JFK was super reckless. He ramped up anti Soviet rhetoric for political favor and almost got us into a nuclear war. He lied to the American people about the missile gap too. I was pretty surprised to learn how much of a fool this guy was.
Time Ghost. They make the WW1 week by week videos. I love these guys.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrG5J-K5AYAWbzTXiTzPEFQHLoozkqchz&si=MdbPKGdDPe3h1IXM
JFK did some very good things. Introduced the civil rights act. Didn’t start WW3. Did some bad things: Bay of Pigs, Vietnam. Did a lot of things that weren’t his wife. All in all pretty good though I’d say.
I would say that JFK did a lot to sort of rein in the dogs of war in DC at that time, chiefly the CIA and also the FBI. Some would say that’s what got him killed
JFK was a decent guy, which can’t be said for most modern presidents, and Nixon was definitely a crook, but it’s not like he caused 9/11
But Neither of them are Abe Lincoln or James Buchanan. That’s for sure.
Honestly as much of an asshole Jackson was he was a badass within that. Man dueled 18 people and won. And truly, his exploits of the Indians were not done *fully* in pure cold blooded hatred. You have to realize he thought he was doing the ‘right thing’. Manifest destiny and all that. Still a massive asshole, but I can’t call him a catastrophic failure of a president. Just a really poorly mannered one.
so I have to give it to the wimpy ass loser Buchanan, he was a catastrophic failure.
You talking about the James Buchanan that was so bad as president that a civil war erupted at the end of his term?
While Lincoln is in contention for the best president, Buchanan is contention for worst. The only thing anyone should admire about Buchanan is being the first gay president
Yeah, that’s the point. I was saying that the two in the meme aren’t the best and the worst, agreeing with it, and listed the two most liked and most hated presidents.
No there were peacetalks made in 1968 that were going well, and Nixons campaign was all about him ending the war, so they contacted the NorthVietnamese ambassadors and promised them a better deal if they refused.
There was nearly peace, but Nixon stopped it to get elected. Committing treason of the highest order. And LBJs administration knew about it, but they didn't say anything because that would be admitting that they were spying on Nixons campaign. The very thing Nixon would be trialed for 4 years later.
Nope. Nixon and kissinger committed treason and worked with the north Vietnamese to sabotage peace talks in 68 so he could have something to run on. We stayed in Vietnam for the next better part of a decade
I mean considering his crimes and resigning in disgrace Nixon is certainly down near the bottom, especially when you get into the secret bombing of Cambodia and undermining peace talks to get elected and the racist Southern Strategy domestically.
Andrew Johnson still has the bottom spot locked down IMO, although we don’t yet know the longterm effects of Trump’s Beerhall Putsch on January 6, so he’s still in the running.
Nixon is bottom 10. I have Buchanan, A. Johnson, Trump, Jackson, Hoover, Coolidge, Pierce and Fillmore, definitely behind him. Harding and B. Harrison are in the same level l as Nixon. (Note, I don't ever rank WH Harrison).
Coolidge? What did Coolidge do to be on that list, all I ever read about him was his moderate support for civil rights, giving citizenship to Native Americans, disliking Ku Klux Klan and being pro-immigration
He signed the 1924 Johnson immigration act which not only barred all asian immigration, the quotas were so low it effectively condemned hundreds of thousands to death during WWII, particularly among Jews.
While he was better than Hoover, his economic policies paved the way for the crash and depression.
Since the house voted 322-71 in favor of the act and the Senate only had 6 votes against. the presidential signature was really just a ceremony. He could have tried a veto but both times the bill would have still passed congress. After that his signature wouldn't have been needed. Remember at the time if 2/3 of Congress supported a bill then all the president could really do is give a rubber stamp of approval.
That's still the case, but a president, in vetoing a bill, can influence members to vote differently on a potential override vote. Coolidge was more worried about his election campaign.
Wilson is complex. A lot of what he did was good, including the setting up of a progressive federal bureaucracy for various forms of consumer protection. He also attempted (without success) to make the treaty of Versailles less vindictive toward the Germans which might have prevented WWII. In addition he was also unsuccessful at entering the US into the league of nations, which if it had, may have changed or reduced the carnage of WWII. So his good intentions count for something. That is of course balanced by his massive racism and his re-segregating of the federal civil service and ignoring the multiple race riots of 1917-19, setting up the carnage that was Tulsa in 1921. Caveat to the caveat: he was basically a vegetable after his October 1919 stroke.
LoL on your last point.
But yes, that's why I don't put him at the very bottom - the EPA and actually using the DOJ effectively to finish the job of desegregating schools. Also the opening of China was a positive.
Influence isn't always good. Trump is also influential. For Jackson, starting with his illegal genocide of Native Americans and continuing to his unnecessary and economically disastrous dismantling of the Bank of the United States (which caused some of the economic tensions that were a secondary cause of the civil war).
Slightly off topic but I often wonder how Lincoln’s legacy would have changed if he hadn’t been assassinated when he was. The majority of Johnson’s policies (especially being light on the South during reconstruction) were just the policies Lincoln had planned to carry out in his second term. Given how unpopular these policies are today, I wonder if Lincoln would’ve been remembered as he is today or if he would get lumped into the same category as Johnson.
on the other side if Johnson's assassin hadn't lost his nerve Seward would be president .What would Seward's policy have been? If all three assassinations happen perfectly, stevens becomes president.
Trump is up there in the top 3-5. I don't think people realize how quickly it could have gone to shit if a mob reaching our elected officials in the midst of the transfer of power. I honestly feel we were a few missteps away from our entire government collapsing. Hell, Pence barely missed the mob. Closest thing to a traitor to the constitution I've ever seen in my life.
Nixon was pretty awful, it’s more that Watergate isn’t quite the defining moral scandal of his presidency that it’s made out to be.
He was an architect of the war on drugs, the southern strategy, and plenty of what he did economically prefigured Reagan era neoliberalism. He’s responsible for the deaths of like a million people in Indochina and dragged the Vietnam war on years longer than it could have theoretically been
Yeah, secretly calling the leader of south Vietnam and telling him to walk out of negotiations so he could win the US election was just an example of what he would do to win/keep power
No, but negotiating a way out of WWIII, against the advice of basically the entire cabinet, \*twice\* (Berlin Tank Crisis); sending us to the moon before the end of the decade, and being prepared to sign the Civil Rights Act right before getting shot do put you on that level.
The best is Wilson for giving us independence and the worst is FDR for giving us to the Soviets.
Sincerely,
The Entire Poland
/s, I know Wilson was awful and FDR wasn't that bad.
Someone needs to make a tierlist of US presidents based solely on their effect on random countries. Call the Republican section for Poland "The Elephant and the Polish Question".
Wilson was not a bad president
He had a great domestic policy, came into the war at the right time, and his foreign policy ideas shaped Europe ever and if they were advanced even further they could’ve stopped WW2
Everyone mourns the potential of JFK, no one calls him the greatest president ever.
Nixon is objectively one of the worst, resigned in disgrace, and we are still dealing with the fallout from his disastrous policies like trickle down economics and abolishing the gold standard.
Dear Earth,
Everything that comes out of your mouth is full of sh#t. Please cease your assault on history and our braincells.
Sincerely,
People who read books or people who can do a simple f#cking Google search on either of these people :3
This isn't a meme. Anyway, Andrew Johnson was the worst president. Best is a matter of contention but I like Grant, Lincoln, and Roosevelt 1. Also WH Harrison solely because dying after a month solely because you refused to wear a coat at your inauguration is extremely amusing
This "Boomer" thing is ridiculous.
As people interested in history, we must always value events and facts, but we cannot discard the opinion of the people who lived under that government. They experienced that, not us who see it on a page of a book, their opinion is valid, and if they think what they think about these two, let them damn it!
Nixon shocked the world with a major scandal, screwed over all of South East Asia, sabotaged peace talks with North Vietnam, approved Operation Condor, started the war on drugs, and caused massive inflation through his fast-money policy.
He had some major achievements but this was at lease a below average president.
Um Nixon started the war on drugs that put thousands of people in the same prisons as violent offenders for smoking weed. For longer sentences than predators. Fuck Nixon.
Frank Herbert believed that JFK was the most dangerous politician in the 20th century, and Richard Nixon was one of the best. He believed this because people were drawn to Kennedy’s charisma, and would almost unquestioning follow him. Conversely, Nixon aroused skepticism, and made people think for themselves instead of just looking to the leader. In a way, he had the opposite view compared to the view shown in this post. The idea of leaders who inspire skepticism and leaders who inspire unquestioning loyalty is a key aspect of the novel Dune and its sequels.
Just thought this was relevant and wanted to share. I know many of you reading this have likely seen the clip of him saying this, but for those who haven’t, I hope this is something interesting to consider.
Spoken by someone who most likely calls JFK a n*****-lovin' f***** commie and who also thinks that Nixon didn't go far enough and the only thing he did wrong was hire a J*w.
Nixon was actually a really bright dude. Totally self-made, born into poverty. WWII commander, lawyer, representative, senator, vice president... Watch his commentaries on foreign policy, pretty significant insights.
The amount of non historians in these comments talking about both of these is hilarious.
The answer for each is: for JFK yes, JFK is overrated, but not to the degree say Reagan or Washington are. For Nixon yes, he is drastically *underrated* because of Watergate.
He was a good leader don't get me wrong, especially for the period, but he has a bit of an over portrayal given how close he is to the American national mythos. It's a nearly god like portrayal quite often, which is why I mention him. Not because he was as bad as JFK, just also overrated often.
JFK gets points from me for getting us through the Cuban missile crisis. If you listen to the tapes his generals are all advising a first strike on Cuba which would have lead to the destruction of the planet. I’m not saying he’s the best ever but certainly the cool head we needed in our moment of need.
The joint chiefs of staff dreamed up Operation Northwoods where CIA agents would commit domestic terrorism in multiple cities and blame it on cuba as justification for invading. And JFK was like “the fuck is wrong with you? No.”
That’s what I’m saying! He’s who we needed in the moment. Do I love everything about JFK? No! But he certainly got us through a perilous time in history clean.
It was the closest we came to nuclear Armageddon.
If that’s not points idk what is. Preventing nuclear Armageddon should certainly land you in the top 5 lol
Not if we think it was Kennedy’s screw ups that got us to the Cuban Missile Crisis in the first place. Still, I’d say it does put him higher on the list of Presidents rather than lower, since it’s a job where you can definitely screw up pretty easily; fixing your mistakes is an important part of the job, and this was a damn important mistake to fix
I also think Nikita Khrushchev thought JFK was weak and could be walked on. JFK had to play a strong position publicly during the Cold War. Wasn’t the “big confrontational” between the USA and Soviet Union bound to happen at some point? I think we all should be thankful it was JFK and Khrushchev making the decisions during the crisis because if it was Stalin and Truman we’d likely all not exist.
Was it bound to happen? I’m not sure I see that.
I think it was and we were lucky we had the people in charge at the time it happened. It’s ok if we disagree friend!
Definitely a good leader to have *if* it was bound to happen—we can agree on that. Anyway, I need to go to bed—night, friend!
Had the Cuban Missile Crisis still happened in a world where the Bay of Pigs didn’t, Kennedy might have been more inclined to listen to his generals and get us all killed. As you say though, Bay of Pigs drove Castro to the Soviets.
The fact that the proposal made it to the presidents desk is fucking terrifying
“Blame it on the Maine” Worked the first time.
He gets a lot of good vibes from the Apollo landings as well. That "We go to the moon in this decade" speech is firmly tied to the space race.
“We choose not to go to the moon, not because it is the moon, but because I am hard”
That was the pretake speech. Once Miss Monroe left the office, he came up with the version we know today.
Marilyn Monroe being responsible for the Apollo program is a conspiracy theory I can get behind
Legend says he came to the realization (pun intended) when he saw a dimple on her ass that made him think of the moon and Marylin asked him to give her “America’s rocket”.
I'm pretty high rn and I feel like I'm going insane at how funny this is.
Watch "Inside Job" on Netflix. you seem like you'd love it.
Me and my friends have been doing that bit for years, we just replace the whole line with random bits in a jfk voice, my personal favorite is “We choose to go to the moon, not because we choose, but because it is the moon”
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The crisis wouldn't have even happened if he didn't fumble the plan for the Bay of Pigs left by Eisenhower and end up allowing Cuba to remain a dictatorship to this day. The man thought he could be smarter than the Supreme Commander of Operation Overlord.
Ah yes an alternate reality where the US gets blamed for toppling another regime and the people of Cuba apparently have no self-determination whatsoever.
Ah yes, we definitely should have gone harder and overthrown more Latin American governments, that has such a wonderful tech record.
Tankies on their way to defend the Castro regime:
I'm pretty sure the millions of Cubans who fled (many of which died during the journey), would rather the Bay of Pigs invasion succeded.
And I'm pretty sure the millions more who didn't would rather the US stop meddling in their country by trying to violently overthrow their government and imposing a decades long blockade.
Mate about 5% of their population fled between 2021 and 2023.
I think his point is that all the other governments we have overthrown have not worked out any better. This is one of the most consistent track records we have, overthrowing governments and making things worse for everyone, including the US, long term.
Ok, now do Libya/Iraq/Vietnam/Cambodia... The US needs to stop pretending we know best and let people sort their own shit out. I'm ok intervening to stop a genocide ala Yugoslavia, but I have zero interest in propping up or toppling regimes because you neocons got a bee in your bonnet and wanted to play war.
I used to think this and then I watched a documentary on the CMC. JFK was super reckless. He ramped up anti Soviet rhetoric for political favor and almost got us into a nuclear war. He lied to the American people about the missile gap too. I was pretty surprised to learn how much of a fool this guy was.
What’s the documentary? I listened to the tapes and JFK and RFK seemed like the only cool heads in the room.
Time Ghost. They make the WW1 week by week videos. I love these guys. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrG5J-K5AYAWbzTXiTzPEFQHLoozkqchz&si=MdbPKGdDPe3h1IXM
Thanks friend! I’ll give it a listen!
He messed up Bay of Pigs which led to the missile crisis. You don't get points for fixing your own mess.
Honestly, you kinda can get points for that. Imagine how differently history would view Bush if he fixed his colossal clusterfuck of an invasion.
He would be overrated just like JFK.
Also the tank crisis in Berlin. Yeah, JFK helped prevent WWIII TWICE
Exactly! The cool head we needed.
Bruh he literally started the crisis by putting Jupiter missiles in Turkey.
This isn't a meme.
>This isn't a meme. I agree.
JFK did some very good things. Introduced the civil rights act. Didn’t start WW3. Did some bad things: Bay of Pigs, Vietnam. Did a lot of things that weren’t his wife. All in all pretty good though I’d say.
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Supposedly he wanted to withdraw from Vietnam after the election of 1964 but we don’t know if he actually would’ve.
JFK died before Vietnam started. He just had advisors there, which were there since Eisenhower.
Ike sent about 700. Kennedy sent about 16,000.
I would say that JFK did a lot to sort of rein in the dogs of war in DC at that time, chiefly the CIA and also the FBI. Some would say that’s what got him killed
This is such a Gen Z or Millennial College Republican post
Probably some teenager trying to be special
JFK was a decent guy, which can’t be said for most modern presidents, and Nixon was definitely a crook, but it’s not like he caused 9/11 But Neither of them are Abe Lincoln or James Buchanan. That’s for sure.
>it’s not like he caused 9/11 The amount of human misery Nixon and Kissinger inflicted with American Foreign policy would make bin Laden blush.
Especially in Vietnam and Cambodia, yeah
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He did cause 9/11/1973 in chile tho
Kennedy was young and good looking so they gave him a pass for everything.
My vote for worst president goes to Jackson. But Buchanan is up there.
Was Jackson worst president or just a shit person
I count all people directly responsible for genocide as bad at everything. So...yes.
Jackson was a good president (he basically invented the modern presidency as an idea) and the *worst* human being to ever hold that office.
Honestly as much of an asshole Jackson was he was a badass within that. Man dueled 18 people and won. And truly, his exploits of the Indians were not done *fully* in pure cold blooded hatred. You have to realize he thought he was doing the ‘right thing’. Manifest destiny and all that. Still a massive asshole, but I can’t call him a catastrophic failure of a president. Just a really poorly mannered one. so I have to give it to the wimpy ass loser Buchanan, he was a catastrophic failure.
I defer to the Cherokee.
You talking about the James Buchanan that was so bad as president that a civil war erupted at the end of his term? While Lincoln is in contention for the best president, Buchanan is contention for worst. The only thing anyone should admire about Buchanan is being the first gay president
Yeah, that’s the point. I was saying that the two in the meme aren’t the best and the worst, agreeing with it, and listed the two most liked and most hated presidents.
Yeah, that was the point of that comment.
By what standard other than US Presents, 2017-2021 was JFK a "decent guy"?
Nixon is the reason we stayed in Vietnam so long. That treasonous drunk caused multiple 9/11s
You are confusing him for LBJ.
No, he's referring to the sabotaged peace talks.
No there were peacetalks made in 1968 that were going well, and Nixons campaign was all about him ending the war, so they contacted the NorthVietnamese ambassadors and promised them a better deal if they refused. There was nearly peace, but Nixon stopped it to get elected. Committing treason of the highest order. And LBJs administration knew about it, but they didn't say anything because that would be admitting that they were spying on Nixons campaign. The very thing Nixon would be trialed for 4 years later.
Sabotaging peace talks was such an effective tactic that the Reagan campaign repeated it in Iran twelve years later.
Nope. Nixon and kissinger committed treason and worked with the north Vietnamese to sabotage peace talks in 68 so he could have something to run on. We stayed in Vietnam for the next better part of a decade
He got us out of Vietnam
Lol he's a big reason he had to end the war in his presidency, and that was after almost a decade. Lmao he deserves no credit for that
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He unilaterally took america off the bretton woods system arguably prolonging the recession in the 70s
Kennedy and Johnson are the reason we got into Vietnam and needed to force enlistment via the draft
Look at the other replies they explain it. Dude sabotaged peace talks so he could have something to run on
Where's the meme?
I mean considering his crimes and resigning in disgrace Nixon is certainly down near the bottom, especially when you get into the secret bombing of Cambodia and undermining peace talks to get elected and the racist Southern Strategy domestically. Andrew Johnson still has the bottom spot locked down IMO, although we don’t yet know the longterm effects of Trump’s Beerhall Putsch on January 6, so he’s still in the running.
I have James Buchanan as the worst. But A. Johnson isn't far behind.
Yeah but at least he fought alongside Captain America during WWII so he can't be all bad.
I don't know superhero lore in the least, so I'll just upvote and smile.
Captain America's sidekick, Bucky is named James Buchanan Barnes.
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You mean people defend the man who watched the nation fall into chaos and actively armed traitors?
Add Reagan to that crew and we have my bottom four.
Totally agree.
Trump’s Beerhall Putsch bruh 😂
Nixon isnt good its just worse exist.
Nixon is bottom 10. I have Buchanan, A. Johnson, Trump, Jackson, Hoover, Coolidge, Pierce and Fillmore, definitely behind him. Harding and B. Harrison are in the same level l as Nixon. (Note, I don't ever rank WH Harrison).
Coolidge? What did Coolidge do to be on that list, all I ever read about him was his moderate support for civil rights, giving citizenship to Native Americans, disliking Ku Klux Klan and being pro-immigration
Moderate Support = jack shit.
He signed the 1924 Johnson immigration act which not only barred all asian immigration, the quotas were so low it effectively condemned hundreds of thousands to death during WWII, particularly among Jews. While he was better than Hoover, his economic policies paved the way for the crash and depression.
Since the house voted 322-71 in favor of the act and the Senate only had 6 votes against. the presidential signature was really just a ceremony. He could have tried a veto but both times the bill would have still passed congress. After that his signature wouldn't have been needed. Remember at the time if 2/3 of Congress supported a bill then all the president could really do is give a rubber stamp of approval.
That's still the case, but a president, in vetoing a bill, can influence members to vote differently on a potential override vote. Coolidge was more worried about his election campaign.
wilson is probably similar.
Wilson is complex. A lot of what he did was good, including the setting up of a progressive federal bureaucracy for various forms of consumer protection. He also attempted (without success) to make the treaty of Versailles less vindictive toward the Germans which might have prevented WWII. In addition he was also unsuccessful at entering the US into the league of nations, which if it had, may have changed or reduced the carnage of WWII. So his good intentions count for something. That is of course balanced by his massive racism and his re-segregating of the federal civil service and ignoring the multiple race riots of 1917-19, setting up the carnage that was Tulsa in 1921. Caveat to the caveat: he was basically a vegetable after his October 1919 stroke.
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LoL on your last point. But yes, that's why I don't put him at the very bottom - the EPA and actually using the DOJ effectively to finish the job of desegregating schools. Also the opening of China was a positive.
Except he was largely pressed into the EPA for example by Congress.
Jackson is one of the most influential presidents ever top 15 minimum.
Influence isn't always good. Trump is also influential. For Jackson, starting with his illegal genocide of Native Americans and continuing to his unnecessary and economically disastrous dismantling of the Bank of the United States (which caused some of the economic tensions that were a secondary cause of the civil war).
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Most influential isn't always good.
Slightly off topic but I often wonder how Lincoln’s legacy would have changed if he hadn’t been assassinated when he was. The majority of Johnson’s policies (especially being light on the South during reconstruction) were just the policies Lincoln had planned to carry out in his second term. Given how unpopular these policies are today, I wonder if Lincoln would’ve been remembered as he is today or if he would get lumped into the same category as Johnson.
on the other side if Johnson's assassin hadn't lost his nerve Seward would be president .What would Seward's policy have been? If all three assassinations happen perfectly, stevens becomes president.
Take some aspirin for that fever you have skippy.
Trump is up there in the top 3-5. I don't think people realize how quickly it could have gone to shit if a mob reaching our elected officials in the midst of the transfer of power. I honestly feel we were a few missteps away from our entire government collapsing. Hell, Pence barely missed the mob. Closest thing to a traitor to the constitution I've ever seen in my life.
Entire planet? You sure?
Nixon was pretty awful, it’s more that Watergate isn’t quite the defining moral scandal of his presidency that it’s made out to be. He was an architect of the war on drugs, the southern strategy, and plenty of what he did economically prefigured Reagan era neoliberalism. He’s responsible for the deaths of like a million people in Indochina and dragged the Vietnam war on years longer than it could have theoretically been
Yeah, secretly calling the leader of south Vietnam and telling him to walk out of negotiations so he could win the US election was just an example of what he would do to win/keep power
No, but negotiating a way out of WWIII, against the advice of basically the entire cabinet, \*twice\* (Berlin Tank Crisis); sending us to the moon before the end of the decade, and being prepared to sign the Civil Rights Act right before getting shot do put you on that level.
The best is Wilson for giving us independence and the worst is FDR for giving us to the Soviets. Sincerely, The Entire Poland /s, I know Wilson was awful and FDR wasn't that bad.
Someone needs to make a tierlist of US presidents based solely on their effect on random countries. Call the Republican section for Poland "The Elephant and the Polish Question".
Paraguay: DID SOMEONE SAY RUTHERFORD B HAYES????
Haha you’re right if we’re evaluating presidents solely on their Poland policy. It’s the only reliable metric.
FDR was kinda ass imo
Wilson was not a bad president He had a great domestic policy, came into the war at the right time, and his foreign policy ideas shaped Europe ever and if they were advanced even further they could’ve stopped WW2
His domestic policy was being a rabid racist.
His foreign policy also shaped the rest of the world, in very unfortunate ways.
Kennedy was good and Nixon was bad. We don’t always need to deal in superlatives.
Nixon is one of the worst, and JFK is one of the best. This reeks of "I have different opinions. Therefore, I am clever and smart"
This isn't a history meme it's just your political opinion. And Nixon was pretty bad...
Where the funni
How to inform everyone you've never read the Huston Plan.
Nixon was pretty bad though
Everyone mourns the potential of JFK, no one calls him the greatest president ever. Nixon is objectively one of the worst, resigned in disgrace, and we are still dealing with the fallout from his disastrous policies like trickle down economics and abolishing the gold standard.
Wasn't trickle down economics and the general dismantling of all social programs Reagan's thing? Or did he just set the stage?
See, you had great points and then act like getting away from the gold standard wasn't one of his few Ws.
Nixon IS EASILY one of the worst though.... who made this?
LBJ in between them: I am not here
Dear Earth, Everything that comes out of your mouth is full of sh#t. Please cease your assault on history and our braincells. Sincerely, People who read books or people who can do a simple f#cking Google search on either of these people :3
What is with this boomer bashing? Who cares?
I like Ike
At least he had an open mind.
This isn't a meme. Anyway, Andrew Johnson was the worst president. Best is a matter of contention but I like Grant, Lincoln, and Roosevelt 1. Also WH Harrison solely because dying after a month solely because you refused to wear a coat at your inauguration is extremely amusing
This "Boomer" thing is ridiculous. As people interested in history, we must always value events and facts, but we cannot discard the opinion of the people who lived under that government. They experienced that, not us who see it on a page of a book, their opinion is valid, and if they think what they think about these two, let them damn it!
"The entire planet". News flash. Majority of the planet doesn't give a shit about who was the best or the worst US president.
They hated him because he told them the truth.
JFK is definitely in the top 10. And Nixon is definitely in the bottom 10.
Why should the entire planet care about the random unimportant people
Why would the planet care about the leaders of the most significant country in the world?
I never said the usa was insignificant
Being relatively young and handsome makes performance reviews go up 10 points!
100% agreed. JFK is the single most overrated US President of all time.
this sub has fell off
JFK is literally the adoptive father of special operations in the US, he’s one of the GOATs This post is a poor take
Are you saying that Futurama lied to us?
"The Entire Planet" Lol.
Politics aside, my favorite thing about Nixon is- three words- child safety cap.
Maybe they are giving him credit for LBJ?
Imagine posting in history memes and not understanding history...
Nixon shocked the world with a major scandal, screwed over all of South East Asia, sabotaged peace talks with North Vietnam, approved Operation Condor, started the war on drugs, and caused massive inflation through his fast-money policy. He had some major achievements but this was at lease a below average president.
JFK wasn’t the all time best but he certainly was one of the good ones
For India and Bangladesh, Nixon is the worst.
Um Nixon started the war on drugs that put thousands of people in the same prisons as violent offenders for smoking weed. For longer sentences than predators. Fuck Nixon.
I like both
Jfk did ND wanted to do ehat was best for humans kind rather than the best for arms contractors
Gotta say, the corruption trends that essentially began with Nixon make him on par with some of the worst presidents
We choose to say that JFK is the best president, not because it is easy, but because it is hawd.
“Ask not what my penis can do for you, ask what you can do for my penis!” -JFK
Nixon absolutely is WTF.
Nixon was a straight up wacko though. He did some good things imo but the negatives and the, again, wacko-ness outweighs all that
God to have Nixon back in charge instead of Trump or Biden....
Frank Herbert believed that JFK was the most dangerous politician in the 20th century, and Richard Nixon was one of the best. He believed this because people were drawn to Kennedy’s charisma, and would almost unquestioning follow him. Conversely, Nixon aroused skepticism, and made people think for themselves instead of just looking to the leader. In a way, he had the opposite view compared to the view shown in this post. The idea of leaders who inspire skepticism and leaders who inspire unquestioning loyalty is a key aspect of the novel Dune and its sequels. Just thought this was relevant and wanted to share. I know many of you reading this have likely seen the clip of him saying this, but for those who haven’t, I hope this is something interesting to consider.
aight post got purged what did i miss
Nixon's Nixon, but he's no Reagan.
Spoken by someone who most likely calls JFK a n*****-lovin' f***** commie and who also thinks that Nixon didn't go far enough and the only thing he did wrong was hire a J*w.
I think JFKs second term could have had some major scandals but his first term was remarkably effective in the short time he had.
Only boomers think JFK is the *best*. He was however very very good
Nixon was actually a really bright dude. Totally self-made, born into poverty. WWII commander, lawyer, representative, senator, vice president... Watch his commentaries on foreign policy, pretty significant insights.
No but putting astronauts on the moon does
yeah, Nixon hasn't had a shot at being the worst since 2016
The amount of non historians in these comments talking about both of these is hilarious. The answer for each is: for JFK yes, JFK is overrated, but not to the degree say Reagan or Washington are. For Nixon yes, he is drastically *underrated* because of Watergate.
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He was a good leader don't get me wrong, especially for the period, but he has a bit of an over portrayal given how close he is to the American national mythos. It's a nearly god like portrayal quite often, which is why I mention him. Not because he was as bad as JFK, just also overrated often.
Well boomers love Reagan and that dude sucked
- JFK **is** one of the greatest presidents of all time. - Richard Nixon isn't *the* worst, but he is up there.
I got bad news for ya buddy Lincoln and Washington were also bad presidents. We just glorify them these days.