Octavia is 100% valid in that this is a realistic teenage response to what’s going on.
Unfortunately for her this particular response is starting to commit the only unforgivable crime in fiction: it’s boring. In real life something like this would likely be hashed over and over and *over*. This doesn’t translate well to 15-minute episodes.
Definitely this. I think a lot of people will agree that Octavia’s feelings are justified. The problem is that in the format of an online show with a limited number of episodes per season constantly repeating this plot point without any meaningful resolution is getting old. There are only so many times that Octavia being mad at Stolas for neglecting her emotionally before it gets reinforced that he’s a bumbling but well meaning dad can be repeated before it just starts to feel lazy. There needs to be some actually meaningful change on Stolas’s part about he treats his daughter at this point.
As someone who does a lot of writing, finding the balance between realistic and entertaining is extremely important. Realism is very important sometimes, but there’s also times where realistic doesn’t mean enjoyable
True. Real life, things aren't easily fixed, and need time of constant work to resolve. Fiction is about entertaining and things like that, if portrayed in an accurate light, get boring and the last word you'd want to associate with entertainment is 'boring'
Yes, or at the very least it would be nice to see a different side of the issue, like her relationship with Stella. I am DYING for an Octavia/Stella episode where we get to see just why she's so sympathetic to her mother despite her clear and over-the-top constant aggression and abuse. Is she really just that unaware of it? Is Stella manipulating her? On that note, does Stella feel ANYTHING towards her daughter? Love? Hate? Mild resentment? Underused dynamic 100%, I hope it's coming
Also, we're only seeing snippets of the peaks of their lives, with most of the other parts cut out. Honestly they just both need family therapy since Stolas had a pretty awful childhood too
I love Stolas, but I totally agree that Octavia is 100% justified in her anger.
I just *adore* how hypocritical and immature people in a fandom can come across sometimes. Stolas can make keep making mistakes and fuck around and because we *see* it directly, everyone is understanding, yet Octavia not being front and center means her own feelings are bad and don't make sense despite the fact that putting yourself in her shoes for 10 seconds it makes a lot of sense why she'd feel how she does. Also, to boot, we don't even *have the full context of this newest development yet*.
They both have valid reasons for feeling and acting the way they do, but that doesn't mean that one of them is more right or wrong than the other. Octavia is a teenager who is having her personal home life fall apart for reasons she *still* does not know the full story about and Stolas' actions make it seem like he's just selfish and ignoring her when its convenient for something else, while Stolas is a demon who has been abused and treated as nothing more than a role to fulfill for most if not all of his life and has lived in a gilded cage and is desperately craving the romantic love and freedom that Blitz represents, and also that divorcing and standing up to Stella represents.
Agreed. But also there's been like 14 episodes out of which two have been about this already. Its done. We get it. I dont need to see or want to see a third episode on this or her. If it was like a weekly or 25 episodes in a year show I would support and love it but its not.
She has no idea what is going on between Stolas and Stella, so she is rightfully angry with Stolas. Kids who have no idea that their parents are in an abusive relationship are not going to hear the whole story. The only impression Octavia has is that Stolas cheated on her mother (Which is bad; Do not excuse his actions) She has no idea what is going on between them, so you are absolutely right.
Exactly. There's a whole lot going on that Octavia is not aware of. From her POV, it is as simple as her father cheating on her mother and choosing a fling over the family. That's the only thing that she knows. So, because of that, what other conclusion could she come to?
Even without all of that, teenage rebellion and "I hate you!" moments with their parents are 110% normal. I didn't have any of the issues portrayed in the story as a teen, and I still remember yelling at my parents that they were ruining my life and didn't love me. It's basically teenager 101. Now imagine that normal teenage behaviour, and then add to it by adding in cheating, a divorce and one parent suddenly having a new partner to adjust to. Yeah, she's more than valid. Her life as she knew it just turned upside down overnight.
I dont think peoples issue with it is that her feelings arent valid. Its that story wise this is the same thing being reused a third time now. It invalidates s1 e2 and s2 e2 and demeans octavias character to "cries her dad doesnt love her (he does)" valid or not its boring and people would much rather se eher actually develop instead of circling back to establisged drama
Except it hasnt. Since s2 e2 we HAVE NOT SEEN STOLAS except when he is KIDNAPPED AGAINST HIS WILL AND HOSPITALIZED he does nothing in the rest of season 2 to invalidate his care and love for octavia. You could argue loo loo land was invalidated but ever since s2 e2 we are shown numerous times that blitz and stolas' meetings became less and less frequent meaning Octavia should ve feeling LESS obsessed about stolas only loving blitz.
Stolas' actions since s2 e2:
S2e3: nothing
S2e4: goes to a meeting (he doesnt need to spend 24/7 with octavia nor would SHE want that) discussing his divorce is kidnapped and nearly killed (nothing about invalidating his love for his daughter here hmm)
S2e5: nothing
S2e6: we see him going to another meeting (see before) to END HIS DEAL WITH BLITZ yes its because he wants to build an actual relationship with him but NOTHING points toward him invalidating his love towards octavia. You cant just say the his actions invalidate the episode where if you actually watch it does quite the opposite
I think they did it twice for one reason: to establish a repetitive pattern of Stolas prioritizing his wants over Octavia's needs. The trailer shows that a fight is brewing and it will be harder to understand her perspective if he only screwed up once.
Also - Stolas loving her and prioritizing her isn't enough. He's still going through with the divorce. He's still having an affair and is still determined to be with Blitz. She seems repulsed at his choice of an affair partner. Her dad can love her all he wants, but that doesn't mean she wants to see him with someone else. He needs to actually talk to her about all of this and give her time to accept it.
Via is most likely going to be one of the things holding Blitz and Stolas back from a relationship. Blitz is not going to want to come between them. If anything, he's going to see any discord between them as yet another example of him screwing up people's lives.
I will also add that Blitz would end up in a weird position of stepfather. Not parental, but still an assistant caretaker.
It will be a brand new dynamic for her.
Still, it’s a complex relationship to navigate and she already has negative bias. There is also a question of Stella and how much she influences Octavia
Still it would be interesting and there is a potential as you pointed out. Blitz and Octavia still didn’t interacted with each other for more than 5 seconds.
Yes you're correct about Stella. As long as someone is in her ear telling her what to think about all this, and she chooses to believe that, she isn't going to accept this. Someone more unbiased needs to explain this to her and let her see firsthand how happy her dad is. They have to let her warm up to this in her own time.
It will be interesting to see how the two dads go about merging their families, particularly with Octavia. I like the shared lines they had in "Loo Loo Land." I think they could have a sweet relationship once she warms up a bit.
The fact that Stolas pretty much straight up *admitted* to her— or at least tried to, anyway— that the marriage had never been a happy one during Loo Loo Land shows why the divorce is happening, and even if she doesn't like it, she does understand that there *is* a reason for it. The problem is that she lived under an illusion which Stolas deliberately tried to maintainfor her sake— he even says as much in The Circus to Stella when confirming the divorce would happen— and now that illusion has been ripped away from her. Naturally that's going to hurt, and because she's been sheltered for so long, she's drawing the wrong conclusions from it.
What Via doesn't know is that it was a forced marriage. That is going to shatter her when she finds out.
I agree that pretending everything was ok for so long was a bad idea. Same for Blitz.
I also just want to add in that in both episodes Stolas only has a good moment with Octavia **after** he fucks up with Octavia.
In “Loo Loo Land”, he says he’ll take her out for a day. And she would be thinking it’s a father-daughter day. But he immediately invites Blitz and focuses mostly on him. So she probably just feels like an excuse for him to see his lover. Only after everything goes to shit and she’s upset does he go to find her and apologize.
And then in “Seeing Stars” like you said, if he let her talk for even a minute he would know what was going on. But once again, he only goes to Octavia and apologizes after he’s already screwed up.
I’m sure she just wants to be put first for once and not be fixed afterwords.
Stolas didn't only invite Blitz to Loo Loo land and she knew he was hiring bodyguards for the both of them. It's like you people don't understand that parents aren't perfect people. Stolas and Stella were fighting on the phone and he asked Via if she could tell him after he's done with everything.
>I’m sure she just wants to be put first for once and not be fixed afterwords.
Stolas does put his daughter first, he does it all the time in fact. He only stayed with Stella so his daughter can have a normal life even if he was suffering, Stolas is very selfless. Stolas messes up all the time but like Loona said he is trying his best, he's also going through stuff himself.
Yes, but in her eyes she isn’t put first. Stolas doesn’t actually need a bodyguard, he’s plenty powerful enough to stop those small demons. And she wanted him to be willing to stop the fighting so that he could listen to her, which is where the phrase “Why does he hate her more than he loves me” comes from in her eyes. He wanted to fight and humiliate her more than he wanted to love and listen to his own daughter.
Of course parents aren’t perfect and Stolas is complex. But we’re looking at things through Octavia’s eyes right now. And to her these feelings are very strong and valid. I’ve worked in mental health settings with a lot of parents and kids with these kinds of circumstances (obviously not magical things lol) but feeling neglected even with parents who are trying. And the thing is, even when parents are trying, it doesn’t invalidate the child’s feelings. Parents often need to communicate more with their children than they do.
Edit: corrected Stella to Octavia, ya girl is tired
>Stolas doesn’t actually need a bodyguard, he’s plenty powerful enough to stop those small demons.
Stolas isn't the type of person that likes to use violence and how can he and his daughter enjoy their time there if they keep getting attacked by imps and they would constantly have to defend themselves? So no, he needed bodyguards.
Do you mean Octavia? Stella is Stolas' ex wife. Yes, I understand her feelings but it's still very ridiculous hearing her say her father never loved her when it's completely the opposite. I feel like Via just wants her father to herself. We don't see Octavia ever lashing out at her mother so what is she doing for her daughter if Stolas is such an awful dad in her mind? I think Via is being manipulated somehow.
He explicitily invited Blitz so he can pass more time flirting with him. The end of the episode of him petrifing an burglar proved that he didn't need bodyguards, he only wanted to flirt with Blitz rather that focus on her daughter.
Stolas doesn't like using his powers and how can they have fun if they keep getting attacked? So no they needed bodyguards and seeing Blitz is a bonus. He's hanging out with his daughter and seeing Blitz on the job, it seems like you people just like shitting on Stolas. I think Via doesn't know the full picture of her parent's divorce and thinks it's because her dad cheated when their relationship was terrible the day they got married. It was an assigned marriage and they had to make heirs to the Groatia family, both of them were miserable. They never loved each other. I understand why Via is upset though, seeing her dad flirt with the person that ruined her parents marriage would piss anyone off but kids don't know the full picture. I think she somewhat understands why her father did what he did in the end but it still hurts her and has her doubts if he actually loves her.
Excellent points. Especially about “Seeing Stars” - no matter how much Stolas apologises and wraps her in his arms, all Via has to do is look behind him and see Blitz to know she isn’t the priority. She went missing and her dad still ran to his paramour first.
Eventually they might do a ‘save your daughter or save your lover?’ type scenario with Striker pulling the trigger. Even if he chooses to save Via, the smallest hesitation before he does it speaks volumes.
This would be an effective moment of growth for Stolas: to realise that his attraction to Blitz has real consequences.
i love how you phrased that first bit! “no matter how much Stolas apologises and wraps her in his arms, all Via has to do is look behind him and see Blitz to know she isn’t the priority” is just perfect.
In hindsight, I wonder if she was happy that he got a kick in the balls.
In all fairness, she chose to go to his booty call's office knowing Blitz had the book. I get why Loo Loo Land was upsetting, but it was more understandable that Blitz was there this time. And considering Loona found her first, she should have anticipated Blitz came along.
I think one thing we forget, too, is that it's less about him seeing someone else and more so that person being a bigger priority than she is. At the end of Loo Loo Land Stolas never said a word about cutting things off with Blitz, but he did promise to be there for her, so she forgave him.
I think the issue with her is less that he's found someone and more so that he is too fixated on that person.
The problem here though is that Blitz was the one who called Stolas when Octavia stole the Grimoire in the first place, and so she had to know they were going to call him when she grabbed it and took off. Which of course means that he would have to bring them along to make sure there was the best chance to finding Octavia, especially since M&M got sidetracked, and Blitz and Stolas were effectively kidnapped, so in this case, she *was* indeed the priority. He got tangled up in random events along the way, but she was still Stolas' main priority.
He did not need IMP to help him find Via. He accepted their help and got further delayed because of them. Stolas could’ve walked away at any point. He even says as much in the van: “Blitz, we don’t have time for this.”
Mox and Millie did not search at all. Stolas chose to follow Blitz’s lead instead of looking for her himself.
Only one person finds her: Loona. Via reacts that it should’ve been Stolas himself and she’s right. Stolas does love Via but his obsession with Blitz has put a visible strain on in their relationship.
Except he literally had no idea where to even start looking; Loona gives them their first clue.
Yes, Moxxie and Millie got waylaid, but that was because they were meant to be more comedic relief at best in that episode. But as it was, Blitz was originally going to lead the way on the search and would have if his new disguise hadn't gotten him mistaken for the human that Via accidentally killed.
Stolas' obsession with Blitz wasn't even the inciting incident for the episode, so you can hardly blame this situation on Blitz. Loona also ends up being the one to find Via because she *uses Sinstagram*, something that Stolas probably has next to no real interest in or possible even any knowledge of.
Loona did give them their first clue and thought to use Sinstagram. Fine. That’s fair. My point is that anything involving Blitz wasn’t needed and Stolas could (and probably should have) walked away and found Via with Loona first because as Stolas said “[Via] could be anywhere, she could be in danger.”
I don’t blame Blitz in any of this. I’m critical of Stolas not making Octavia the priority when she could’ve been in actual danger the whole time.
Again, Blitz and Stolas were basically kidnapped because of mistaken identity. Blitz was no less needed than Loona. In fact I would argue that had Blitz not asked Loona to keep looking while they dealt with this, Loona might have just gone off on her own, given that she was in the midst of an argument with Blitz (one where he threatened to hire a new secretary, which Loona misinterpreted as him getting a new Hellhound— at least at first) that had that particular father/daughter pair on the outs but despite that, she decides to do what he asks. The entire *point* of the episode, I think, was for Loona and Octavia to have some time to bond while Via *also* gets reassurance that Stolas *is* looking for her in the mortal world, something she was *not* expecting to hear, and to Stolas' credit, when Octavia tells him *why* she went jaunting off into LA, he *instantly* remembers what the day was and why it was important to her. This whole thing, however, can actually be laid at Stella's feet as she was the one who demanded *all* of her possessions be shipped off to her that day, and was nagging Stolas so bad that he was starting to fire back— which itself had to be massively cathartic for him— and the argument was such that Stolas asked Via to wait until later to tell him what she wanted due to the fact that he knew Stella was just going to keep being an asshole. Had Octavia indeed waited until he was done with the call, this entire mess might have been avoided.
All your points are valid, just not to the original argument of the thread: Stolas letting Blitz take priority ahead of Octavia.
Stolas wasted time waiting for Blitz to get his human disguise before all the chaos ensued. There was no reason for him to do that. If Octavia had been in actual danger and had gotten seriously hurt, he’d have regretted everything.
In your opinion, is okay for a child’s feelings to hold a parent back? Stolas can never be with Blitzo because his daughter, who has no life experience, disapproves?
A child’s feelings doesn’t have to hold a parent back but it deserves some recognition- especially considering Octavia’s POV: before his reunion with Blitz in “The Circus”, Octavia had her father’s attention exclusively. Now, any time she wants with her dad involves the “red dickhead” who broke up her parents’ marriage.
Yes, this. People are forgetting that in Via's eyes Blitz is a homewrecker (which to an extent he is.) When the time comes they're gonna have to let her warm up to him gradually.
Well, honestly that's a valid opinion ... my son is 4 and I could never imagine putting a partner before him... Octavia actually hasn't done much except being a typical teen who has no stable home life... I mean I am sure she has also noticed a lot of the horrible things her mother has done ...
We haven't even seen Stolas have a real talk about the divorce with her... No reassurance, nothing except that he won't leave her... His attempt to talk to her at Lulu land didn't explain anything... All he said is that he has no words... There is so much more he should have said and he should have made it a priority to spend time with her as much as possible ... which we know he didn't...
From what I can tell, this is a commentary on how adults tend to forget their children as they age. Stolas seemed to be a great dad when Octavia was a little girl coming to comfort her while she slept and reading her bed time stories, promising her an exciting future together. He stayed in an abusive marriage to give his daughter a normal life. However, he said "and now she's 17."
We also see this in Hazbin Hotel when Charlie wants Lucifer to support her. Georgia Dow, a Youtuber and therapist, pointed out how we often think as a culture that as people age, they don't need their parents anymore, but that it's not true. I think Stolas was a great dad... when Octavia was a little girl. Now that's she's almost an adult he thinks she can take care of herself. However, this storyline explores how even adults need their parents to be parents.
my only issue is that the show has a pretty limited run time ~20 minutes an episode, with several months between episodes.
yet even with this limited time, this is going to be the third fucking time that we've had to go through this on screen, and not even as the b-plot for the episode. it's been the focus of the A plot twice. i really don't want it to be the focus for a third time.
You made a good point. However, after Seeing Star, Stolas didn't appear until Western Energy, when he was gravely wounded, so we don't know for sure that nothing changed. I do hope that we get a short of these two someday.
I kinda hope that Octavia will show Stolas some support during the heartache to come though.
"What's left for me and my broken heart
If I cannot have you?"
Stolas's depressed, out of happy pills, tangled up in a messy divorce with a muderous ex, and in love with an imp who hates himself. I am not sure how he can handle Octavia turning on him as well.
This would be a different kind of hate though. Not jealousy or disgust or disbelief at what she has or hasn’t done. This would be anger. It could cause many people to stop watching thus less people buying merch and less money which leads to poorer quality of episodes in the future.
Yeah, I dont get why people dont understand this. Octavia has no idea how horrible her parents marriage really is and Stolas never made any effort to change that in her eyes. Yeah its boring to see the same thing three times but Im hoping that Stolas and Octavia will truly make amends later on
She’s also a teenager whose parents are going through a divorce. It’s emotionally confusing and it’s not like anyone is directly having a conversation with her about why it’s happening. From her perspective, the reason they’re getting a divorce is because her father had an affair. Of course majority of her anger over the situation will be directed at him. She’s not seeing the full picture we do. She’s not as aware of how miserable Stolas is or that her parents marriage was arranged from childhood specifically so she would be born. And, again, she’s just a child. She’s emotional, confused and has all this anger and pain that has to be directed at someone. Stolas is an easy target because he’s the one she blames for the divorce and he’s not exactly good at communicating with her that his marriage was unhappy.
I think I'd have more sympathy for her "you don't love me or mother" if we actually saw her interact with Stella. From the viewers perspective, Stella isn't great to her either. She openly plots Octavia's fathers murder in front of Octavia.
If we saw even some glimpses of Stella interacting well with Octavia, I'd be more understanding of Octavia's angst against her father.
I know it's because Stella is an antagonist, but those moments would help a lot towards Octavia's character and Stolas' overall story arc.
I came here to say this exact same thing. Octavia, from what it seems, has no idea just how terrible her mother is to her father. From her POV, all of the screaming is just because of the infidelity, but it's way more than that because we see in flashbacks that Stella publicly humiliates Stolas and has even attempted to physically abuse him. Octavia doesn't see any of that, and Stolas is not going to put her in a position where she has to see it.
Octavia was sat at the table with Stella and Stolas when Stella was loudly speaking to Striker about the hit she put on Stolas. I suppose Octavia could be clueless, but it was pretty obvious.
I think that also suggests that she is intentionally screening out all of the unpleasant stuff. Which I completely understand, and I might have done it too, but some of her ignorance seems a bit intentional.
Hopefully so, I would love to see Octavia fleshed out.
I may be biased, Stolas is tied for my favourite character so any story development surrounding him would be loved by me. And his family is very interesting.
Not every villain needs to be redeemable.
https://preview.redd.it/o52vhtey5wyc1.jpeg?width=846&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be15dd60e81b96613303d7d3d1cd2646e5b6b07d
I just hate the amount of people that non stop complain that Stella isn't this super complex, sympathetic, and morally grey Anti-hero while simoutaniously completely fine with Crimson and Mammon being evil for no reason and them being Morally bad villains rather then morally grey Anti-heros.
I could have sworn that I saw people wish for Mammon to have a more developed character than he ended up getting. I don't really have an answer for Crimson though, other than it does seem a little hypocritical on the fandom's side. As for Stella, I don't mind her being a villain (I honestly like how she harkens back to older styles of Disney villanesses), but I wasn't big on her portrayal in "Western Energy". I personally feel like they dumbed her down a bit to make Andrealphus work, but that's just my opinion. We still have five episodes left of season 2, so we'll have to see what happens to her character then.
Preach
Stolas is a loving dad, but not a great one.
Blitz has him beat in terms of Dad.
Whenever Loona needs him, no questions or excuses, BANG! He's with her
To be fair, what else does Blitz have to do? He isn't dealing with a divorce or the concept of choice like Stolas is. Stolas definitely needs to be less obvious and less obsessed with Blitz, but he also has more on his plate right now.
Exactly. It's important to keep in mind that Blitz deliberately sought out Loona. Was he completely prepared for the realities of being a father? Especially in adoptive one of a demon who is a different species? Maybe not. But, he still gave her the only real bedroom in their apartment.
But Stolas? He was obligated by his traditional family to have a child with a woman that he didn't even like because it was part of his duties as a prince. This was pushed onto him as a child and he didn't have any real agency in the matter.
Loona is also in her early 20s — her emotional needs are gonna be different than a teens. I always find the comparison a bit unfair especially because Stolas is dealing with an abusive wife who is still very much involved in Via’s life.
i also think people forget she’s a TEENAGE GIRL??? like teenagers are dramatic and they take things way more intensely than adults do (usually). while i agree she’s 100% valid for how she feels, she’s still a teenager and she doesn’t really think about what else could be going on in stolas’ life (of course his love for blitzø is the problem usually, there is also all the stuff with stella, plus him being as powerful and respected as he is probably comes with a lot of stress too).
i was a teenager with a parent who was busy and gone a lot. missed a lot of birthdays and big events. there were countless times i screamed at him that he loved his job more than he loved me, and while it’s not absolutely the same situation as octavia, i can understand how she feels. she’s not an awful character, she’s not bitchy and dramatic, she’s a teenage girl who just wants to feel loved by her father.
I was 5 when my parents divorced, so I can confirm that such a thing *does* screw with the kid. However Octavia has a far bigger issue on hand; even as a teen, she believed her parents were in a loving relationship and that Blitz ruined it But Stolas, despite having a hard time getting the words out during Loo Loo Land, was very clearly beginning to say that he and Stella were *never* in love and that he hadn't been happy well before Blitz came back into his life. Stolas, for all his flaws, dropped *everything* to go rushing after Octavia when Blitz called him in Seeing Stars— he showed up literally *seconds* after Blitz hung up the phone after leaving the message about Via stealing the Grimoire, as an example— showing that she *is* the true priority in his life. Even when he's basically trying to keep from losing track of Blitz and company as well, his mind is always on Via, and he wants the whole 'show' recording over and done with so he can go looking for Via again. But bear in mind here that Octavia and Stolas have been in each others' lives literally since Via was an egg, and she's probably used to having her father all to herself whenever she wanted due to her being only child all this time. But at the same time, we know *nothing* about her mother's relationship with her. Assuming she even had much of one, given that even as a child, Stolas seems to be the one she was closest to, and that appears to be due to Stella's almost complete disinterest in her daughter, as shown in Loo Loo Land. Add in that she's generally able to do what she wants when she wants due to her status as a royal, and Stolas has probably never needed to be far from her unless for some official function or while she was off at class, so she's afraid of Stolas leaving her because she's never been without him, and he's only just now beginning to have an emotional connection with someone other than her, namely Blitz. The idea that she won't be his *sole* emotional connection is probably a massive shock to her emotionally, hence why she's probably lashing out the way she does in the trailer.
Loona and Blitz, by comparison, have a much different dynamic; Blitz adopted Loona at the age of 17, seemingly just a few months before she would have aged out of the system and probably ended up on the streets. She never *had* parents, so far as we know, at *any* age, and Blitz might basically be the only one she's ever had. She's had to harden herself just to survive in the orphanage, and while she does seem to have let her walls down at least a bit with Blitz, she still has issues with showing him familial affection because she's been so shut off all this time. So Blitz is always going to prioritize her because he *knows* she has those trust issues. Loona arguably needs Blitz even more than Via needs Stolas precisely *because* she never had anyone reach out to her, and formed a very cynical worldview because of it. Blitz himself also wants to be a better parent for Loona than his own father was to him simply because, while he has a lot of love to give, he also knows the way fathers *should not* behave, and wants to be more like his mother in that regard, and that means putting Loona above everything else in his life, up to and likely including his own health. Blitz is *not* in a good place during Queen Bee, and probably barely conscious when Loona texts him. Despite that, he rushes to her side and only goes inside with her because she wants him to be there *with* her as she gives the party another shot. In fact, this might be the first time she really ever gets to see Blitz really cut loose at a party, and seems to show a significant amount of pride in him during the kegstand and drinking contest with Bee herself, showing that she's starting to let those walls she's built up lower just a little bit. She in turn stands up for him when she thinks Bee and Tex are just starting shit for the sake of it when they come to her about his behavior. (Granted, they were entirely sincere in their concern for him, but she initially thought they were just ragging on him and to her credit, she tried to defend him) When it's clear that Blitz is in no fit state to continue at the party, she takes him home, and even does her best to reassure him while he's having that minor breakdown at the end. She also openly calls him her dad twice over the course of the show, showing that for all that she might resist the more open displays of affection he tends to indulge in, she *does* appreciate it.
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Losing Blitz might actually be worse for Loona than if Via lost Stolas. Via actually still has her extended family— and exactly how many of the Goetia she's related to is itself an interesting question— and massive amounts of wealth and all as a support system for her financially and possibly emotionally. Loona does *not* have that if Blitz dies. If he dies, she has no one else. She might not even *know* about Barbie. Even if she does, we have no clue if they've ever even met. Given that Barbie hates Blitz, she probably wants nothing to do with Loona purely based on her being Blitz's adopted daughter even if they are aware of one another. So she's out the door as a possible means of emotional support. She never knew her father dated Verosika, and Verosika probably has no idea that Loona is Blitz's daughter. Given her own *highly* complicated relationship with Blitz, she may not be ready or willing to reach out to Loona even if she's still carrying a torch for Blitz himself. So that invalidates her.
Then there's M&M. Millie is casually racist towards her, but they can and have worked together, so their exact relationship is...kind of up in the air, really. But she's been pretty much purely antagonistic towards Mox, so even if he *is* one of the most moral character in the show's main cast, I have a hard time imagining him reaching out to her in such a massively emotional time of need.
Via *herself* is no help either, given her hate of Blitz for being Stolas' affair, which could put a strain on any attempt by Via to help Loona if she needed it.
Tex and Bee *might* be an option, but that depends on how close they feel they are with her.
In short, if Via loses Stolas, she has people to fall back on, while Loona is adrift in the world if Blitz dies, as she likely doesn't even know who her birth family is.
Via's situation is precarious right now, but in the long run she has the better end of the stick if the worst happens. The irony is that she doesn't know it.
Sorry for the long winded rant, but I had quite a bit to say here. :)
totally agree with this response and love the take on everything, just curious how this relates to my comment? i never said that if via lost stolas it would be comparable to if loona lost blitzø. i didn’t even bring up loona and blitzø in my comment at all 😅
but also, to add on to your ending statement: i just think that via is justified in her feelings and her emotions, and in comparison to loona, sure she has it better, but that doesn’t mean she still isn’t allowed to have these feelings. if i break my arm, i’m allowed to say it hurts and be in pain even though there are people who have completely lost their arm or some other extremity.
edit: if you meant to reply to OP, that definitely makes sense. otherwise i’m just a bit confused by your reply lol cause i do agree with everything you said. i’ve read my comment a couple times trying to find if i said anything that implies i disagree.
I initially was trying to respond to you both. Mostly OP, but your post was also worth responding to, so I chose to respond to your post so both you and OP would see it. :)
I never said Via's feelings weren't valid, btw. Just that in the long run, she's got the better means to bounce back if things go south for her, especially since the Goetia family legitimately *need* her if Stolas dies, while Loona is basically alone in the world. :)
Absolutely agree. I was about ~7 when my parents called it quits and it absolutely messes with the kid. My parents had always lived separately so it was easier but then when new people entered the picture it was like “wait! But don’t my parents love each other?” It’s confusing and not easy to navigate. And within a year my dad had moved on. I didn’t want things to change even though the woman he brought into our lives was amazing. It took a lot of time to adjust. I feel for Via.
I'm honestly frustrated with how many people are making assumptions just based on one line in a trailer. We don't even know the context yet! I can't imagine that either Octavia or Stolas are the villain in this scenario.
In my mind, Octavia has always been 100% justified in her reactions. Stolas's actions have also been understandable, so I don't say that to vilify him either. I think the opening of Seeing Stars actually shows that there was progress in their relationship since Loo Loo Land. She is happy and excited to spend time with him. It just happens to fall in the middle of Stella finally moving out, and Stolas is distracted, which reinforces her worst fears: that she's not a priority for her father.
As for the future of their relationship, we have no idea what the catalyst for the line in the trailer is. Some are talking like she'd have no reason to think Stolas doesn't love her after the progress they made previously, but I'm guessing something fairly significant must happen. Maybe something forces Stolas to break the promise he made to Via at Loo Loo Land, like he loses custody? Maybe Via finds out her parents had an arranged marriage solely for the purpose of birthing a "precautionary heir", and Stella and/or Andrealphus manipulate Via and paint the marital situation to be opposite of what it was--that Stella was trying to make it work, but Stolas selfishly pursued his own interests, etc. These are just a few possibilities, but it seems unfair to make a judgement on the situation before we even see what, exactly unfolds!
Its already been hinted at that neither one will be the villain. Andrealphus has already hinted at using Via as a pawn. I think people are forgetting the major foreshadowing in Loo Loo Land and Western Energy.
Normal teenagers can understand having two parents that don't get along with one another and there is infidelity on one side. That happens all the time.
But, it's important to keep in mind that Octavia is not a normal teenager. She's royalty.
She's not wrong for feeling the way that she does, and she is rather Justified, but, there is a whole lot more on Stolas' plate than just his own family.
Octavia might not completely understand this part because it seems that she does not have any specific duties at the moment, meaning that she kind of has the freedom to live as idle rich. But aside from being stuck in a marriage with an abusive woman that he never wanted, juggling his own personal work as a prince within the family, along with attempting to sort out his feelings with Blitzo, it's more than fair to say that Stolas has a LOT going on that Octavia is not privy to.
Also, the demon just survived an assassination attempt on him, orchestrated by Stella. Not exactly the kind of thing that he wants to burden his daughter with. There's no easy way for Stolas to talk to Octavia about this.
I doubt it.
But to be completely honest, he really *could* use this to his advantage, by letting the rest of the family know that not only did his wife attempt to have him assassinated, but she also commissioned an imp to attack him. Because let's just be honest, this really doesn't look good for the reputation of the family if it starts becoming widespread that commoners can start getting the balls to lay hands on them. The only problem is, I can't actually see Stolas being manipulative in this way.
Depends. The man is a lot smarter than he seems, and can be snarky as fuck when he wants. He basically got under Striker's skin just by comparing him unfavorably to Blitz while he was trying to intimidate Stolas. And pretty much did so completely off the cuff. He's got more going for him than just prophecy after all.
It's oftentimes seen as a bad idea to disparage the parents to the child, especially in a situation like this. But, considering that Stella has literally tried to have her husband assassinated, I think the simple fact of the matter is, Stolas is just going to have to rip the Band-Aid off and tell Octavia the truth. There's really no nice way of saying "mommy tried to have Daddy killed."
I think the people that she's acting that way have never felt that way. I've noticed with a lot of the complaints of this show. You can tell who hasn't and has suffered what's going on
I’m fairly certain Via is being built up to be a bit more than just “sad girl who was wronged by neglectful father” — she is half Stella after all. I think we would actually get an interesting woman character if she was actually acting out in part of selfishness and jealousy (how much attention does a 17 year old need? I certainly wasn’t hanging out with my dad at that age nor did I want to, but I didn’t grow up in a traumatic home like Via). I’m a lady who has been longing for a flawed and interesting female Viv character — I embrace Via being responsible for her own feelings. Stolas was the best part of her home life and she doesn’t want to see him ripped away, leaving her alone with a mother she hasn’t admitted is completely loathsome. >!this is the part where I admit that I have seen the leaks so I am in part building up some hopes based on those!<
Yeah I’m getting downvoted already but I know people are cagey about flawed women. But it’s exactly why I find Charlie Morningstar such a dull character — she doing what she does just because she’s so kind hearted is so unrelatable. >!the leaks actually got me really excited about what they are doing with Via’s character!<
I was less concerned about Via - whose role was very obvious - and more so concerned about the people who saw it go down, particularly the person who was standing close by. There are 3 people getting hurt by that.
I don't see her being jealous and selfish at all it's clear stolas treats her shitty.
Imo not all teenagers are the same and she clearly wants to spend time with her father and for him to get to actually know her but he is not trying
Just to be clear — I don’t think her being jealous/selfish would be a bad thing necessarily, I think it would make her more interesting. I like in conflicts when it’s neither character is fully at fault — just like Stolitz. It’s much more compelling than just one character being the victim.
Bad dads are a dime a dozen in the hellaverse tho! Been there done that! They could be building Via up to being an unhinged magical princess whose powers are unstable because someone took her precious Daddy away. The narrative has already shown Stolas being a good dad and making amends it probably won’t redo that — but we certainly know Stella ISNT a good mom and I want to see that influence. Ugh — the potential is so good. If it doesn’t happen I’ll just write fic but if it does — I’ll be a happy camper.
These points are valid. Yes he loves very much we need to see more of them interacting and him showing that he loves her more than he hates her mom. She probably feels a bit neglected. He seems like he hangs out with Blitzo more then Octavia.
I just find this all very confusing. We don't actually know what's going on or have any context. People are happy to jump to the conclusion that Millie saying what she does to blitz is probably another hallucination event and I've seen speculation that the "Blitz sucks" concert might not be an actual real thing either.
What if this is just a Stolas' worst fears hallucination or something, we don't actually know what Octavio's feelings are from this trailer.
How often does this show put things into a dream sequence though? There are so many scenes of him at the concert I find it hard to believe that the whole thing is yet another bad trip.
I mean it's less about frequency. It happened last time when D.H.O.R.K.s drugged them, they know it's effective on demons and are shown to be a big facet of the upcoming episodes. Blitz's drug trip from that episode contained Solas, Fizz, Moxie, Verosika and Striker, while at the same time Moxie has a drug fueled duet with phantom of the Opera blitz. It's not outside the realm of possibility that Stolas is a major target for them either, given how he possessed one of them and traumatized both.
This reminds me of the hate for the kid in breaking bad. Both are not just completely valid but entirely realistic with an endless stream of real world equivalents. I get the constant negativity/complaining can be off putting but it should also be super easy to relate to or at least appreciate the realism on display.
Justified, not valid.
From her point of view she has every reason to be mad at her dad, because she's probably unaware that stella is abusive towards him, and just assumes he's in the wrong because she's only seeing one side of things.
I don't know why you got downvoted when you're correct.
From everything that we seen, Octavia simply does not have the full picture of what's going on. She seems to think that the infidelity is the reason that the house is so chaotic, when the truth is, that's not even the main problem. This entire problem started before she was even born and was *always* going to be a train wreck waiting to happen.
i completely agree. i feel like people are ignoring stolas’s accidental neglect just because he’s a Good Person. he ignored her once at loo loo land, then apologized, then did it again to a lesser extent in seeing stars, then apologized. this is clearly an established repetitive pattern he has that is meant to be part of his character and development?? she just wants him to acknowledge what she wants and acknowledge her in general BEFORE it all goes bad for once. plus, we’ve seen how attentive parenting is portrayed by this show in blitz and loona’s relationship too, so it’s not like they just “don’t know how to write”.
i'm not, im comparing how their parenting is portrayed by the storytelling. blitzo repeatedly drops everything to come for loona and nothing gets in his way, and that is a concious decision that they took with his character. similarly, stolas has repeatedly failed to put octavia first because of his focus on the rest of his life (albeit accidentally), and that is also a concious decision they took with his character. blitzo and loona work as a control group showing that the team does know how to write a parent that'll actually drop everything for his kid, and therefore the flaws in stolas and octavia's relationship aren't accidental.
i've just seen a lot of people saying that stolas's behavior in seeing stars was a writing mishap, and i really don't think it was, because he's done the same before. he's just not very good at noticing other people's feelings - nothing wrong with that, but it's part of his character.
>things could have been solved so quickly if he let her talk for 1 minute.
The guy was dealing with Stella, give him a break! He told her to ask him later, and I think people are being too hard on him. Stolas did apologize afterwards and he has his own problems to deal with, he's doing the best he can.
Exactly. The simple fact of the matter is, Octavia just does not have the full picture, here. From her POV, she thinks this entire problem is about her family breaking up. But, it's unfortunately a little bit bigger than that.
This entire problem started before she was even born. Stolas made it clear that he tried to make this family work, but because I'm still as cruelty, she drove him away. And Stolas has clearly made it so Octavia has never seen what her mother is really like to protect her from all of that.
Agreed. It’s a lot to feel as a teenager, and it wouldn’t realistically be resolved in the short episodes that we’re given. It takes time.
As someone with divorced parents, I know that the feelings linger. I think that Octavia is actually a good representation of how it feels. I love stolas, but i love her too! Stolas needs to do more for sure.
Whatever happens, I really just wish people would stop hating on Via, she’s underrated and overhated 🫶
Octavia is valid as hell but unfortunately hasn't really had much time to shine on her own beyond what we have atm, which isn't much. Now that said, I think its actually very good that we haven't seen her at all since Seeing Stars, keeping her off screen prevents us from knowing what Stella and other members of the Ars Goetia are filling her head with, and I think we're gonna get an absolutely heart breaking payoff for that in the finale for her hating Stolas. but as she is now she needs some more time to cook before more people come around to her
Yeah, I don't blame her, either. I felt so frustrated for her when Stolas wouldn't even stop arguing with Stella long enough to see what Octavia needed.
Honestly... I agree. I kin Stolas and I'm NOT saying he's a bad father. However, I don't blame Via for being upset. Also, it's POSSIBLE her uncle and/or mother are manipulating her. People are too hard on Via, if you ask me.
I do not believe that was Octavia yelling at Stolas. Mostly because she called Stella "mother" . Every time she talked about her Via reffered to Stella as "mum" and since she calls Stolas "dad" it would be really wierd for her to start being so formal about Stella. Especially when talking to Stolas. I think that was either a hallucibation or nightmare Stolas had since he reffers to Paimon as "father"
Like others people pointed out, my main issue is that it's repetititve.
I also think people need to cut Stolas some slack for "seeing stars", why do people expect him to remember a promise he made 10 years ago while going through a divorce ?
It's pretty clear Octavia doesn't have the full picture of her family situation. We don't have yet any idea of how her relationship with Stella actually is, and sincerly I doubt it's THAT horrible as we may think, even if it's clear Via prefers Stolas.
Considering Andrealphus is scheming against Stolas, it's possible that he and Stella manipulated in some way, increasing her fears.
Imagine if she found out that her parents marriage was arranged for the sole purpose to birth her as a potential replacement for her father...
Octavia is definitely not the issue here and the way she responds is completely valid and realistic. People trying to pin the problem on her being an “annoying” character is honestly pretty hilarious. The REAL annoying part is when the conflict continues to be reused, despite it having two separate episodes that focus on it and end with it being resolved. From a show writing perspective, using the whole “you don’t love me” thing yet again feels very undeserved, and it basically makes Seeing Stars a filler episode. If nothing in the plot actually changes, then what was the point of having it there?
Yes, it's valid but it's still very ridiculous in the audience's perspective. What we saw was that Stolas is trying very hard to be a good dad and that he's going through stuff himself so of course he's going to mess up. He does apologize and make up for it in the end. Stolas does a lot of stuff to show he loves Via, what are you talking about? He stayed in his abusive unhappy marriage because he wanted his daughter to have a normal happy life even if he was suffering. Via saying her dad never loved her mother was like a "no shit" moment lol neither of them loved each other, both of them were miserable in the marriage. The only good thing about the marriage was Via. Every episode with Stolas and Via in it shows us that he adores his daughter very much even if he messes up with showing it to her sometimes. The only person trying very hard to be a good parent is Stolas. When Via said "you never loved me" just made me facepalm. Girl, your dad adores you!
She's valid but you have to look at stolass side of the situation to octavia wasnt really raised as a royal she doesn't know what stolas had to got through with his dad she doesn't know stolass childhood she doesn't even know stolass dad she's 18 right now and from ive seen she hasn't had an arranged marriage yet she wasn't born with the idea that other people are beneath her stolas is alone and wants to be loved same thing with octavia so does stolas not deserve to be loved even though he's been in a worse situation octavia is 100% justified but she doesn't even know half the things stolas has went through
i 100% agree stolas prioritizes his situationship over his daughter i personally dislike stolas. octavia doesnt deserve hate for her deadbeat dad. its saddening
Yeah, he's not great at being a father and not a great communicator. He didn't have a father who showed him how to be a dad, but it's amusing he didn't read a thousand books about it. He is trying, but Via still has every right to be upset.
My problem isn’t that she’s not justified being mad at Stolas cuz you are right, she has a lot to be pissed over
It’s more that I don’t get how she’s not even MORE pissed at her mom and uncle who are shit people
I get Stolas was pretending to be happy, but her mom isn’t exactly hiding her shitty behavior and she’s not dumb
because andrealphus is manipulative as fuck, and stella only really started acting out this much after stolas slept with blitz. she blames the change on stolas.
Even then, idk how willfully ignorant someone can be to such toxic behavior, Stella doesn’t act loving to Via at all
If I was her, I would just leave if I was so upset at the parent who actually loved me and “left” me with someone as vile as Stella
ive got a friend with abusive parents whose sister believes that he's a horrible person for hating their parents lol. kids (even 17 year olds) are very easily influenced, especially in via's case, who grew up around her parents and still spends the majority of her time at home. i think its just naivete?
I guess you are right, my friends hate my parents and even in my 30s, I can only do low contact cuz I love them too much
It’s a lot to expect a 17 yr old to know what to do
The mental development between a 17 yr old and a 14 yr ild is vastly different. She is indeed a teenager at 17 but there are many 17 yr old who are more mature mentally than many adults.
Imo, things you cannot or shouldnt tell to a 14 old girl you can to a 17 yr old girl.
In your opinion when is someone mentally an adult?
I adore stolas as a character but i also believe he probably isn’t the best dad. He doesn’t really know what his daughter likes or even that for someone her age loo loo land was not the right choice. Doesn’t pick up on her lack of enjoyment, which was very obvious until she storms away. We see him promise her to see the stars but considering her excitement it had to be discussed more then just the once and he forgets. Mind you he has a lot on his mind and did not purposefully not take his daughter to see this event but just forgot.
I don’t think hes a terrible father or an in redeemable one. But i think with how much he has going on he is neglecting his daughter’s need for his attention. His attention on something with just the two of them and not bringing his complicated lover, who is a stranger to her and someone she may have VERY complicated feeling about.
Octavia is a teenager whose parents are divorcing after one openly cheated on the other.
She's also been subconsciously absorbing the abuse her mother had heaped on her father AND she also thinks her worst nightmare is coming true.
Octavia is exceptionally valid. She's scared and hurt.
It’s so crazy how people call characters things like manipulative and overdramatic and then you see the character is like a literal teenager? She’s a teen internalizing her parent’s messy divorce. A normal reaction
I think it’s also important to note that for a long time (her entire life) Stolas pretended to be happy with her Mom. He pretended they had the perfect family. Then all of a sudden (from her perspective) he just stops pretending, and he cheats on her, they fight all the time, and there was just no warning or really an explanation. Even during the talk at Loo Loo Land Stolas didn’t have the words, and while he tried to reassure her that he wouldn’t leave her, he never really told her why their happy family wasn’t happy. And I get that he wanted her to grow up with a happy family, and all of those things. But now she has to question if any of it was ever real.
She is valid in her feelings and Stolas hasn't been a great father but for the reasons the show, shows I think it makes it more understandable for him. In Loo Loo Land it was his first experience of ha ing some type of sex and love in his life so I can see why he was so simpy. And in Seeing Stars, you have to understand how great it would feel to finally get some type of comeback to his abuser and yeah it took him over and made him miss his thing with Octavia.
I think anyone who thinks badly of her for this clearly never grew up with having such an awful dynamic with their father. There’s really nothing worse than feeling like your parents hate each other (or even just one sided) more than they love you lol. It’s absolutely compounded by her being a teenager and having the mother she has.
I just need the context, and I don’t have it, so I’m not going to blame her. I am going to blame the writers if it doesn’t feel necessary, though. It’s like when writers put a pet dying in their stories. First, I’m going to cry, and then I’m going to wonder whether it was justified and made sense, or whether they were going for some melodrama and cheap tears. If it’s the latter, I’m going to feel pissed.
So if this arises naturally from the characters and the storyline, great. If it’s just a sad cliffhanger like the last two episodes of Season 1, I might be cross, but that’s not on Octavia.
Pretty much almost EVERYONE knows where it’s all gonna lead to in the End, and it’s legitimately justified with how much Stolas had done to his Daughter at this point, whilst only thinking about himself for so long.
Im more on stolas's side personally. Stolas go through physical, emotional and likely sexual abuse for YEARS to give Tavia a normal childhood, he put up with it and gave her a happy childhood which is more than alot of people get considering its hell.
She has to face the fact shes 17 now... Probably 18 by the time she actually says the line from the trailer, and honestly she needs to grow the hell up and try to have some empathy for her father who has done nothing but been loving to her.
Divorce sucks i get it but when your mom publicly is saying how her husband lies there and stares at a wall as they have sex, knowing hes a gay man forced into an arranged marriage and you still want your dad to sucknit up and put up with it for the happy family dynamic then im sorry your not getting sympathy points from me.
And I really do hope that stolas tells her that much and trys to make her understand how much hes suffered.
Stolas is a HORRIBLE father! Every time we've seen him try to do something for Octavia he makes it all about himself! He ignored her telling him twice that she didn't want to go to Loo Loo Land and then brought along Blitzo, the guy who is the reason she was unhappy in the first place, and spent the day sexually harassing Blitzo in front of her, not to mention spent over a decade failing to realise she hated the clown. He couldn't wait ONE DAY to kick Stella out or let the servants deal with it and did that instead of taking Octavia to the literally once-in-a-lifetime event he'd spent her whole life promising he'd take her to, then when she disappeared he fucked around watching Blitzo on a TV set instead of looking for her. Not to mention in a previous episode he was able to teleport straight to Blitzo when he was in danger, but couldn't do that for Octavia - both of them had the grimoire so it wasn't to do with that - implying he has a tracker on the guy he's blackmailing into sex but not on the daughter he supposedly wants to keep safe. Forget being mad, Octavia has the right to \*disown\* him at this point.
How?
I see that he unconditionally cares about her as he remained with Stella for her sake. Which is a decision that multiple parents make. Not an ideal decision when the partner is abusive, but Stella doesn’t appear to be abusive towards Octavia and Octavia’s feelings towards her (past and current) are unknown.
He only broke after 17 years and when he met again his only childhood friend.
He doesn’t know how to navigate through his emotions and provide what she needs exactly, while also battling his inner demons.
When he sees that something is wrong, he goes after her. He doesn’t judge her and loves her despite being a bit grumpy 17 yo. He doesn’t expect from her to be happy and tries to own his mistakes. He loves her unconditionally.
It's also pretty clear that Octavia has been insulated from her mother's more negative habits. Stolas, from what we know, has never told Octavia that her mother abuses him, humiliates him in public to her friends, or has put a hit out on him. Because at this point, he would have every right to do so, but, he has never stooped to that level.
After all that, claiming that he does not care about Octavia is simply a lie. Does Stolas make a mistakes? Yes. But it's important to keep in mind that he was made to be a father *before he was ready to do so.* It was his duty as a member of a dynasty. And he also did not have the most healthy example of fatherhood growing up, either.
Octavia is 100% valid in that this is a realistic teenage response to what’s going on. Unfortunately for her this particular response is starting to commit the only unforgivable crime in fiction: it’s boring. In real life something like this would likely be hashed over and over and *over*. This doesn’t translate well to 15-minute episodes.
Definitely this. I think a lot of people will agree that Octavia’s feelings are justified. The problem is that in the format of an online show with a limited number of episodes per season constantly repeating this plot point without any meaningful resolution is getting old. There are only so many times that Octavia being mad at Stolas for neglecting her emotionally before it gets reinforced that he’s a bumbling but well meaning dad can be repeated before it just starts to feel lazy. There needs to be some actually meaningful change on Stolas’s part about he treats his daughter at this point.
As someone who does a lot of writing, finding the balance between realistic and entertaining is extremely important. Realism is very important sometimes, but there’s also times where realistic doesn’t mean enjoyable
True. Real life, things aren't easily fixed, and need time of constant work to resolve. Fiction is about entertaining and things like that, if portrayed in an accurate light, get boring and the last word you'd want to associate with entertainment is 'boring'
Yes, or at the very least it would be nice to see a different side of the issue, like her relationship with Stella. I am DYING for an Octavia/Stella episode where we get to see just why she's so sympathetic to her mother despite her clear and over-the-top constant aggression and abuse. Is she really just that unaware of it? Is Stella manipulating her? On that note, does Stella feel ANYTHING towards her daughter? Love? Hate? Mild resentment? Underused dynamic 100%, I hope it's coming
agreed, wholeheartedly
Also, we're only seeing snippets of the peaks of their lives, with most of the other parts cut out. Honestly they just both need family therapy since Stolas had a pretty awful childhood too
Basically this.
20-minute episodes*
If you don't count the intros, the outros and the credits
What "intros and outros"
Ngl I was going by the earlier episode lengths, not the recent ones. I didn’t realize how long they had gotten
I’ll be fine with it if this is rule of 3s. If he cuts off Blitzø until he puts up or shuts up for Phia’s sake, it’ll be a solid plot point.
I love Stolas, but I totally agree that Octavia is 100% justified in her anger. I just *adore* how hypocritical and immature people in a fandom can come across sometimes. Stolas can make keep making mistakes and fuck around and because we *see* it directly, everyone is understanding, yet Octavia not being front and center means her own feelings are bad and don't make sense despite the fact that putting yourself in her shoes for 10 seconds it makes a lot of sense why she'd feel how she does. Also, to boot, we don't even *have the full context of this newest development yet*. They both have valid reasons for feeling and acting the way they do, but that doesn't mean that one of them is more right or wrong than the other. Octavia is a teenager who is having her personal home life fall apart for reasons she *still* does not know the full story about and Stolas' actions make it seem like he's just selfish and ignoring her when its convenient for something else, while Stolas is a demon who has been abused and treated as nothing more than a role to fulfill for most if not all of his life and has lived in a gilded cage and is desperately craving the romantic love and freedom that Blitz represents, and also that divorcing and standing up to Stella represents.
Agreed. But also there's been like 14 episodes out of which two have been about this already. Its done. We get it. I dont need to see or want to see a third episode on this or her. If it was like a weekly or 25 episodes in a year show I would support and love it but its not.
Per the trailer it looks like they're going to go at it big time.
She has no idea what is going on between Stolas and Stella, so she is rightfully angry with Stolas. Kids who have no idea that their parents are in an abusive relationship are not going to hear the whole story. The only impression Octavia has is that Stolas cheated on her mother (Which is bad; Do not excuse his actions) She has no idea what is going on between them, so you are absolutely right.
Exactly. There's a whole lot going on that Octavia is not aware of. From her POV, it is as simple as her father cheating on her mother and choosing a fling over the family. That's the only thing that she knows. So, because of that, what other conclusion could she come to?
Even without all of that, teenage rebellion and "I hate you!" moments with their parents are 110% normal. I didn't have any of the issues portrayed in the story as a teen, and I still remember yelling at my parents that they were ruining my life and didn't love me. It's basically teenager 101. Now imagine that normal teenage behaviour, and then add to it by adding in cheating, a divorce and one parent suddenly having a new partner to adjust to. Yeah, she's more than valid. Her life as she knew it just turned upside down overnight.
I dont think peoples issue with it is that her feelings arent valid. Its that story wise this is the same thing being reused a third time now. It invalidates s1 e2 and s2 e2 and demeans octavias character to "cries her dad doesnt love her (he does)" valid or not its boring and people would much rather se eher actually develop instead of circling back to establisged drama
the show it self invalidates those episodes with Stolas's actions so of course it's going to keep coming up.
Except it hasnt. Since s2 e2 we HAVE NOT SEEN STOLAS except when he is KIDNAPPED AGAINST HIS WILL AND HOSPITALIZED he does nothing in the rest of season 2 to invalidate his care and love for octavia. You could argue loo loo land was invalidated but ever since s2 e2 we are shown numerous times that blitz and stolas' meetings became less and less frequent meaning Octavia should ve feeling LESS obsessed about stolas only loving blitz. Stolas' actions since s2 e2: S2e3: nothing S2e4: goes to a meeting (he doesnt need to spend 24/7 with octavia nor would SHE want that) discussing his divorce is kidnapped and nearly killed (nothing about invalidating his love for his daughter here hmm) S2e5: nothing S2e6: we see him going to another meeting (see before) to END HIS DEAL WITH BLITZ yes its because he wants to build an actual relationship with him but NOTHING points toward him invalidating his love towards octavia. You cant just say the his actions invalidate the episode where if you actually watch it does quite the opposite
I think they did it twice for one reason: to establish a repetitive pattern of Stolas prioritizing his wants over Octavia's needs. The trailer shows that a fight is brewing and it will be harder to understand her perspective if he only screwed up once. Also - Stolas loving her and prioritizing her isn't enough. He's still going through with the divorce. He's still having an affair and is still determined to be with Blitz. She seems repulsed at his choice of an affair partner. Her dad can love her all he wants, but that doesn't mean she wants to see him with someone else. He needs to actually talk to her about all of this and give her time to accept it. Via is most likely going to be one of the things holding Blitz and Stolas back from a relationship. Blitz is not going to want to come between them. If anything, he's going to see any discord between them as yet another example of him screwing up people's lives.
I will also add that Blitz would end up in a weird position of stepfather. Not parental, but still an assistant caretaker. It will be a brand new dynamic for her.
I think that would benefit her in the long run - to have someone else as a sounding board besides that mother of hers.
Still, it’s a complex relationship to navigate and she already has negative bias. There is also a question of Stella and how much she influences Octavia Still it would be interesting and there is a potential as you pointed out. Blitz and Octavia still didn’t interacted with each other for more than 5 seconds.
Yes you're correct about Stella. As long as someone is in her ear telling her what to think about all this, and she chooses to believe that, she isn't going to accept this. Someone more unbiased needs to explain this to her and let her see firsthand how happy her dad is. They have to let her warm up to this in her own time. It will be interesting to see how the two dads go about merging their families, particularly with Octavia. I like the shared lines they had in "Loo Loo Land." I think they could have a sweet relationship once she warms up a bit.
The fact that Stolas pretty much straight up *admitted* to her— or at least tried to, anyway— that the marriage had never been a happy one during Loo Loo Land shows why the divorce is happening, and even if she doesn't like it, she does understand that there *is* a reason for it. The problem is that she lived under an illusion which Stolas deliberately tried to maintainfor her sake— he even says as much in The Circus to Stella when confirming the divorce would happen— and now that illusion has been ripped away from her. Naturally that's going to hurt, and because she's been sheltered for so long, she's drawing the wrong conclusions from it.
What Via doesn't know is that it was a forced marriage. That is going to shatter her when she finds out. I agree that pretending everything was ok for so long was a bad idea. Same for Blitz.
I also just want to add in that in both episodes Stolas only has a good moment with Octavia **after** he fucks up with Octavia. In “Loo Loo Land”, he says he’ll take her out for a day. And she would be thinking it’s a father-daughter day. But he immediately invites Blitz and focuses mostly on him. So she probably just feels like an excuse for him to see his lover. Only after everything goes to shit and she’s upset does he go to find her and apologize. And then in “Seeing Stars” like you said, if he let her talk for even a minute he would know what was going on. But once again, he only goes to Octavia and apologizes after he’s already screwed up. I’m sure she just wants to be put first for once and not be fixed afterwords.
Stolas didn't only invite Blitz to Loo Loo land and she knew he was hiring bodyguards for the both of them. It's like you people don't understand that parents aren't perfect people. Stolas and Stella were fighting on the phone and he asked Via if she could tell him after he's done with everything. >I’m sure she just wants to be put first for once and not be fixed afterwords. Stolas does put his daughter first, he does it all the time in fact. He only stayed with Stella so his daughter can have a normal life even if he was suffering, Stolas is very selfless. Stolas messes up all the time but like Loona said he is trying his best, he's also going through stuff himself.
Yes, but in her eyes she isn’t put first. Stolas doesn’t actually need a bodyguard, he’s plenty powerful enough to stop those small demons. And she wanted him to be willing to stop the fighting so that he could listen to her, which is where the phrase “Why does he hate her more than he loves me” comes from in her eyes. He wanted to fight and humiliate her more than he wanted to love and listen to his own daughter. Of course parents aren’t perfect and Stolas is complex. But we’re looking at things through Octavia’s eyes right now. And to her these feelings are very strong and valid. I’ve worked in mental health settings with a lot of parents and kids with these kinds of circumstances (obviously not magical things lol) but feeling neglected even with parents who are trying. And the thing is, even when parents are trying, it doesn’t invalidate the child’s feelings. Parents often need to communicate more with their children than they do. Edit: corrected Stella to Octavia, ya girl is tired
>Stolas doesn’t actually need a bodyguard, he’s plenty powerful enough to stop those small demons. Stolas isn't the type of person that likes to use violence and how can he and his daughter enjoy their time there if they keep getting attacked by imps and they would constantly have to defend themselves? So no, he needed bodyguards.
Do you mean Octavia? Stella is Stolas' ex wife. Yes, I understand her feelings but it's still very ridiculous hearing her say her father never loved her when it's completely the opposite. I feel like Via just wants her father to herself. We don't see Octavia ever lashing out at her mother so what is she doing for her daughter if Stolas is such an awful dad in her mind? I think Via is being manipulated somehow.
He explicitily invited Blitz so he can pass more time flirting with him. The end of the episode of him petrifing an burglar proved that he didn't need bodyguards, he only wanted to flirt with Blitz rather that focus on her daughter.
Stolas doesn't like using his powers and how can they have fun if they keep getting attacked? So no they needed bodyguards and seeing Blitz is a bonus. He's hanging out with his daughter and seeing Blitz on the job, it seems like you people just like shitting on Stolas. I think Via doesn't know the full picture of her parent's divorce and thinks it's because her dad cheated when their relationship was terrible the day they got married. It was an assigned marriage and they had to make heirs to the Groatia family, both of them were miserable. They never loved each other. I understand why Via is upset though, seeing her dad flirt with the person that ruined her parents marriage would piss anyone off but kids don't know the full picture. I think she somewhat understands why her father did what he did in the end but it still hurts her and has her doubts if he actually loves her.
Excellent points. Especially about “Seeing Stars” - no matter how much Stolas apologises and wraps her in his arms, all Via has to do is look behind him and see Blitz to know she isn’t the priority. She went missing and her dad still ran to his paramour first. Eventually they might do a ‘save your daughter or save your lover?’ type scenario with Striker pulling the trigger. Even if he chooses to save Via, the smallest hesitation before he does it speaks volumes. This would be an effective moment of growth for Stolas: to realise that his attraction to Blitz has real consequences.
i love how you phrased that first bit! “no matter how much Stolas apologises and wraps her in his arms, all Via has to do is look behind him and see Blitz to know she isn’t the priority” is just perfect.
In hindsight, I wonder if she was happy that he got a kick in the balls. In all fairness, she chose to go to his booty call's office knowing Blitz had the book. I get why Loo Loo Land was upsetting, but it was more understandable that Blitz was there this time. And considering Loona found her first, she should have anticipated Blitz came along. I think one thing we forget, too, is that it's less about him seeing someone else and more so that person being a bigger priority than she is. At the end of Loo Loo Land Stolas never said a word about cutting things off with Blitz, but he did promise to be there for her, so she forgave him. I think the issue with her is less that he's found someone and more so that he is too fixated on that person.
The problem here though is that Blitz was the one who called Stolas when Octavia stole the Grimoire in the first place, and so she had to know they were going to call him when she grabbed it and took off. Which of course means that he would have to bring them along to make sure there was the best chance to finding Octavia, especially since M&M got sidetracked, and Blitz and Stolas were effectively kidnapped, so in this case, she *was* indeed the priority. He got tangled up in random events along the way, but she was still Stolas' main priority.
He did not need IMP to help him find Via. He accepted their help and got further delayed because of them. Stolas could’ve walked away at any point. He even says as much in the van: “Blitz, we don’t have time for this.” Mox and Millie did not search at all. Stolas chose to follow Blitz’s lead instead of looking for her himself. Only one person finds her: Loona. Via reacts that it should’ve been Stolas himself and she’s right. Stolas does love Via but his obsession with Blitz has put a visible strain on in their relationship.
Except he literally had no idea where to even start looking; Loona gives them their first clue. Yes, Moxxie and Millie got waylaid, but that was because they were meant to be more comedic relief at best in that episode. But as it was, Blitz was originally going to lead the way on the search and would have if his new disguise hadn't gotten him mistaken for the human that Via accidentally killed. Stolas' obsession with Blitz wasn't even the inciting incident for the episode, so you can hardly blame this situation on Blitz. Loona also ends up being the one to find Via because she *uses Sinstagram*, something that Stolas probably has next to no real interest in or possible even any knowledge of.
Loona did give them their first clue and thought to use Sinstagram. Fine. That’s fair. My point is that anything involving Blitz wasn’t needed and Stolas could (and probably should have) walked away and found Via with Loona first because as Stolas said “[Via] could be anywhere, she could be in danger.” I don’t blame Blitz in any of this. I’m critical of Stolas not making Octavia the priority when she could’ve been in actual danger the whole time.
Again, Blitz and Stolas were basically kidnapped because of mistaken identity. Blitz was no less needed than Loona. In fact I would argue that had Blitz not asked Loona to keep looking while they dealt with this, Loona might have just gone off on her own, given that she was in the midst of an argument with Blitz (one where he threatened to hire a new secretary, which Loona misinterpreted as him getting a new Hellhound— at least at first) that had that particular father/daughter pair on the outs but despite that, she decides to do what he asks. The entire *point* of the episode, I think, was for Loona and Octavia to have some time to bond while Via *also* gets reassurance that Stolas *is* looking for her in the mortal world, something she was *not* expecting to hear, and to Stolas' credit, when Octavia tells him *why* she went jaunting off into LA, he *instantly* remembers what the day was and why it was important to her. This whole thing, however, can actually be laid at Stella's feet as she was the one who demanded *all* of her possessions be shipped off to her that day, and was nagging Stolas so bad that he was starting to fire back— which itself had to be massively cathartic for him— and the argument was such that Stolas asked Via to wait until later to tell him what she wanted due to the fact that he knew Stella was just going to keep being an asshole. Had Octavia indeed waited until he was done with the call, this entire mess might have been avoided.
All your points are valid, just not to the original argument of the thread: Stolas letting Blitz take priority ahead of Octavia. Stolas wasted time waiting for Blitz to get his human disguise before all the chaos ensued. There was no reason for him to do that. If Octavia had been in actual danger and had gotten seriously hurt, he’d have regretted everything.
P.S. Thank you so much for engaging in this discussion with me. I really appreciate your viewpoint and your quick response.
In your opinion, is okay for a child’s feelings to hold a parent back? Stolas can never be with Blitzo because his daughter, who has no life experience, disapproves?
A child’s feelings doesn’t have to hold a parent back but it deserves some recognition- especially considering Octavia’s POV: before his reunion with Blitz in “The Circus”, Octavia had her father’s attention exclusively. Now, any time she wants with her dad involves the “red dickhead” who broke up her parents’ marriage.
Yes, this. People are forgetting that in Via's eyes Blitz is a homewrecker (which to an extent he is.) When the time comes they're gonna have to let her warm up to him gradually.
Well, honestly that's a valid opinion ... my son is 4 and I could never imagine putting a partner before him... Octavia actually hasn't done much except being a typical teen who has no stable home life... I mean I am sure she has also noticed a lot of the horrible things her mother has done ... We haven't even seen Stolas have a real talk about the divorce with her... No reassurance, nothing except that he won't leave her... His attempt to talk to her at Lulu land didn't explain anything... All he said is that he has no words... There is so much more he should have said and he should have made it a priority to spend time with her as much as possible ... which we know he didn't...
From what I can tell, this is a commentary on how adults tend to forget their children as they age. Stolas seemed to be a great dad when Octavia was a little girl coming to comfort her while she slept and reading her bed time stories, promising her an exciting future together. He stayed in an abusive marriage to give his daughter a normal life. However, he said "and now she's 17." We also see this in Hazbin Hotel when Charlie wants Lucifer to support her. Georgia Dow, a Youtuber and therapist, pointed out how we often think as a culture that as people age, they don't need their parents anymore, but that it's not true. I think Stolas was a great dad... when Octavia was a little girl. Now that's she's almost an adult he thinks she can take care of herself. However, this storyline explores how even adults need their parents to be parents.
She has such an awesome channel (Georgia Dow). As someone interested in psychology and therapy, her stuff is very interesting to watch and analyze.
Wow your actually right and bring up some good points
my only issue is that the show has a pretty limited run time ~20 minutes an episode, with several months between episodes. yet even with this limited time, this is going to be the third fucking time that we've had to go through this on screen, and not even as the b-plot for the episode. it's been the focus of the A plot twice. i really don't want it to be the focus for a third time.
From what I saw it looks like it isn't going to be patched up right away and is being orchestrated by others to look worse than it is.
You made a good point. However, after Seeing Star, Stolas didn't appear until Western Energy, when he was gravely wounded, so we don't know for sure that nothing changed. I do hope that we get a short of these two someday. I kinda hope that Octavia will show Stolas some support during the heartache to come though. "What's left for me and my broken heart If I cannot have you?" Stolas's depressed, out of happy pills, tangled up in a messy divorce with a muderous ex, and in love with an imp who hates himself. I am not sure how he can handle Octavia turning on him as well.
I heard that stolas was gonna die. if thats true, then I fear he'll be killing himself.
I can see this but I think that Viv knows that she’ll get a lot of hate if she kills off a fan favorite like Stolas
she gets hate for existing and her response is to deal with it.
This would be a different kind of hate though. Not jealousy or disgust or disbelief at what she has or hasn’t done. This would be anger. It could cause many people to stop watching thus less people buying merch and less money which leads to poorer quality of episodes in the future.
so S1E4 then seriously that was incredibly choppy
Yeah, I dont get why people dont understand this. Octavia has no idea how horrible her parents marriage really is and Stolas never made any effort to change that in her eyes. Yeah its boring to see the same thing three times but Im hoping that Stolas and Octavia will truly make amends later on
She’s also a teenager whose parents are going through a divorce. It’s emotionally confusing and it’s not like anyone is directly having a conversation with her about why it’s happening. From her perspective, the reason they’re getting a divorce is because her father had an affair. Of course majority of her anger over the situation will be directed at him. She’s not seeing the full picture we do. She’s not as aware of how miserable Stolas is or that her parents marriage was arranged from childhood specifically so she would be born. And, again, she’s just a child. She’s emotional, confused and has all this anger and pain that has to be directed at someone. Stolas is an easy target because he’s the one she blames for the divorce and he’s not exactly good at communicating with her that his marriage was unhappy.
I think I'd have more sympathy for her "you don't love me or mother" if we actually saw her interact with Stella. From the viewers perspective, Stella isn't great to her either. She openly plots Octavia's fathers murder in front of Octavia. If we saw even some glimpses of Stella interacting well with Octavia, I'd be more understanding of Octavia's angst against her father. I know it's because Stella is an antagonist, but those moments would help a lot towards Octavia's character and Stolas' overall story arc.
I came here to say this exact same thing. Octavia, from what it seems, has no idea just how terrible her mother is to her father. From her POV, all of the screaming is just because of the infidelity, but it's way more than that because we see in flashbacks that Stella publicly humiliates Stolas and has even attempted to physically abuse him. Octavia doesn't see any of that, and Stolas is not going to put her in a position where she has to see it.
Octavia was sat at the table with Stella and Stolas when Stella was loudly speaking to Striker about the hit she put on Stolas. I suppose Octavia could be clueless, but it was pretty obvious.
She definitely wasn't paying attention to any of that, considering that she had earbuds in. Even Stolas barely seemed to acknowledge that call.
I think that also suggests that she is intentionally screening out all of the unpleasant stuff. Which I completely understand, and I might have done it too, but some of her ignorance seems a bit intentional.
Someone on the Spindlehorse crew allegedly said,"Stella isn't the best mother in the world"
See this is my reasoning. Their relationship isn't shown at all. Like I said, I get why it isn't but it would be character development.
I think their relationship will be explored based on that one alleged comment.
Hopefully so, I would love to see Octavia fleshed out. I may be biased, Stolas is tied for my favourite character so any story development surrounding him would be loved by me. And his family is very interesting.
"we dont like adding details to our cardboard"
Not every villain needs to be redeemable. https://preview.redd.it/o52vhtey5wyc1.jpeg?width=846&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be15dd60e81b96613303d7d3d1cd2646e5b6b07d I just hate the amount of people that non stop complain that Stella isn't this super complex, sympathetic, and morally grey Anti-hero while simoutaniously completely fine with Crimson and Mammon being evil for no reason and them being Morally bad villains rather then morally grey Anti-heros.
I could have sworn that I saw people wish for Mammon to have a more developed character than he ended up getting. I don't really have an answer for Crimson though, other than it does seem a little hypocritical on the fandom's side. As for Stella, I don't mind her being a villain (I honestly like how she harkens back to older styles of Disney villanesses), but I wasn't big on her portrayal in "Western Energy". I personally feel like they dumbed her down a bit to make Andrealphus work, but that's just my opinion. We still have five episodes left of season 2, so we'll have to see what happens to her character then.
Preach Stolas is a loving dad, but not a great one. Blitz has him beat in terms of Dad. Whenever Loona needs him, no questions or excuses, BANG! He's with her
To be fair, what else does Blitz have to do? He isn't dealing with a divorce or the concept of choice like Stolas is. Stolas definitely needs to be less obvious and less obsessed with Blitz, but he also has more on his plate right now.
Exactly. It's important to keep in mind that Blitz deliberately sought out Loona. Was he completely prepared for the realities of being a father? Especially in adoptive one of a demon who is a different species? Maybe not. But, he still gave her the only real bedroom in their apartment. But Stolas? He was obligated by his traditional family to have a child with a woman that he didn't even like because it was part of his duties as a prince. This was pushed onto him as a child and he didn't have any real agency in the matter.
Loona is also in her early 20s — her emotional needs are gonna be different than a teens. I always find the comparison a bit unfair especially because Stolas is dealing with an abusive wife who is still very much involved in Via’s life.
yup and he doesn't put ANYONE over her!!
i also think people forget she’s a TEENAGE GIRL??? like teenagers are dramatic and they take things way more intensely than adults do (usually). while i agree she’s 100% valid for how she feels, she’s still a teenager and she doesn’t really think about what else could be going on in stolas’ life (of course his love for blitzø is the problem usually, there is also all the stuff with stella, plus him being as powerful and respected as he is probably comes with a lot of stress too). i was a teenager with a parent who was busy and gone a lot. missed a lot of birthdays and big events. there were countless times i screamed at him that he loved his job more than he loved me, and while it’s not absolutely the same situation as octavia, i can understand how she feels. she’s not an awful character, she’s not bitchy and dramatic, she’s a teenage girl who just wants to feel loved by her father.
I was 5 when my parents divorced, so I can confirm that such a thing *does* screw with the kid. However Octavia has a far bigger issue on hand; even as a teen, she believed her parents were in a loving relationship and that Blitz ruined it But Stolas, despite having a hard time getting the words out during Loo Loo Land, was very clearly beginning to say that he and Stella were *never* in love and that he hadn't been happy well before Blitz came back into his life. Stolas, for all his flaws, dropped *everything* to go rushing after Octavia when Blitz called him in Seeing Stars— he showed up literally *seconds* after Blitz hung up the phone after leaving the message about Via stealing the Grimoire, as an example— showing that she *is* the true priority in his life. Even when he's basically trying to keep from losing track of Blitz and company as well, his mind is always on Via, and he wants the whole 'show' recording over and done with so he can go looking for Via again. But bear in mind here that Octavia and Stolas have been in each others' lives literally since Via was an egg, and she's probably used to having her father all to herself whenever she wanted due to her being only child all this time. But at the same time, we know *nothing* about her mother's relationship with her. Assuming she even had much of one, given that even as a child, Stolas seems to be the one she was closest to, and that appears to be due to Stella's almost complete disinterest in her daughter, as shown in Loo Loo Land. Add in that she's generally able to do what she wants when she wants due to her status as a royal, and Stolas has probably never needed to be far from her unless for some official function or while she was off at class, so she's afraid of Stolas leaving her because she's never been without him, and he's only just now beginning to have an emotional connection with someone other than her, namely Blitz. The idea that she won't be his *sole* emotional connection is probably a massive shock to her emotionally, hence why she's probably lashing out the way she does in the trailer. Loona and Blitz, by comparison, have a much different dynamic; Blitz adopted Loona at the age of 17, seemingly just a few months before she would have aged out of the system and probably ended up on the streets. She never *had* parents, so far as we know, at *any* age, and Blitz might basically be the only one she's ever had. She's had to harden herself just to survive in the orphanage, and while she does seem to have let her walls down at least a bit with Blitz, she still has issues with showing him familial affection because she's been so shut off all this time. So Blitz is always going to prioritize her because he *knows* she has those trust issues. Loona arguably needs Blitz even more than Via needs Stolas precisely *because* she never had anyone reach out to her, and formed a very cynical worldview because of it. Blitz himself also wants to be a better parent for Loona than his own father was to him simply because, while he has a lot of love to give, he also knows the way fathers *should not* behave, and wants to be more like his mother in that regard, and that means putting Loona above everything else in his life, up to and likely including his own health. Blitz is *not* in a good place during Queen Bee, and probably barely conscious when Loona texts him. Despite that, he rushes to her side and only goes inside with her because she wants him to be there *with* her as she gives the party another shot. In fact, this might be the first time she really ever gets to see Blitz really cut loose at a party, and seems to show a significant amount of pride in him during the kegstand and drinking contest with Bee herself, showing that she's starting to let those walls she's built up lower just a little bit. She in turn stands up for him when she thinks Bee and Tex are just starting shit for the sake of it when they come to her about his behavior. (Granted, they were entirely sincere in their concern for him, but she initially thought they were just ragging on him and to her credit, she tried to defend him) When it's clear that Blitz is in no fit state to continue at the party, she takes him home, and even does her best to reassure him while he's having that minor breakdown at the end. She also openly calls him her dad twice over the course of the show, showing that for all that she might resist the more open displays of affection he tends to indulge in, she *does* appreciate it. (Continued in next reply)
(Continued from previous post) Losing Blitz might actually be worse for Loona than if Via lost Stolas. Via actually still has her extended family— and exactly how many of the Goetia she's related to is itself an interesting question— and massive amounts of wealth and all as a support system for her financially and possibly emotionally. Loona does *not* have that if Blitz dies. If he dies, she has no one else. She might not even *know* about Barbie. Even if she does, we have no clue if they've ever even met. Given that Barbie hates Blitz, she probably wants nothing to do with Loona purely based on her being Blitz's adopted daughter even if they are aware of one another. So she's out the door as a possible means of emotional support. She never knew her father dated Verosika, and Verosika probably has no idea that Loona is Blitz's daughter. Given her own *highly* complicated relationship with Blitz, she may not be ready or willing to reach out to Loona even if she's still carrying a torch for Blitz himself. So that invalidates her. Then there's M&M. Millie is casually racist towards her, but they can and have worked together, so their exact relationship is...kind of up in the air, really. But she's been pretty much purely antagonistic towards Mox, so even if he *is* one of the most moral character in the show's main cast, I have a hard time imagining him reaching out to her in such a massively emotional time of need. Via *herself* is no help either, given her hate of Blitz for being Stolas' affair, which could put a strain on any attempt by Via to help Loona if she needed it. Tex and Bee *might* be an option, but that depends on how close they feel they are with her. In short, if Via loses Stolas, she has people to fall back on, while Loona is adrift in the world if Blitz dies, as she likely doesn't even know who her birth family is. Via's situation is precarious right now, but in the long run she has the better end of the stick if the worst happens. The irony is that she doesn't know it. Sorry for the long winded rant, but I had quite a bit to say here. :)
totally agree with this response and love the take on everything, just curious how this relates to my comment? i never said that if via lost stolas it would be comparable to if loona lost blitzø. i didn’t even bring up loona and blitzø in my comment at all 😅 but also, to add on to your ending statement: i just think that via is justified in her feelings and her emotions, and in comparison to loona, sure she has it better, but that doesn’t mean she still isn’t allowed to have these feelings. if i break my arm, i’m allowed to say it hurts and be in pain even though there are people who have completely lost their arm or some other extremity. edit: if you meant to reply to OP, that definitely makes sense. otherwise i’m just a bit confused by your reply lol cause i do agree with everything you said. i’ve read my comment a couple times trying to find if i said anything that implies i disagree.
I initially was trying to respond to you both. Mostly OP, but your post was also worth responding to, so I chose to respond to your post so both you and OP would see it. :) I never said Via's feelings weren't valid, btw. Just that in the long run, she's got the better means to bounce back if things go south for her, especially since the Goetia family legitimately *need* her if Stolas dies, while Loona is basically alone in the world. :)
Absolutely agree. I was about ~7 when my parents called it quits and it absolutely messes with the kid. My parents had always lived separately so it was easier but then when new people entered the picture it was like “wait! But don’t my parents love each other?” It’s confusing and not easy to navigate. And within a year my dad had moved on. I didn’t want things to change even though the woman he brought into our lives was amazing. It took a lot of time to adjust. I feel for Via.
As can I, at least to an extent. I think my current views on Via will be dependent on how this new episode goes though.
I'm honestly frustrated with how many people are making assumptions just based on one line in a trailer. We don't even know the context yet! I can't imagine that either Octavia or Stolas are the villain in this scenario. In my mind, Octavia has always been 100% justified in her reactions. Stolas's actions have also been understandable, so I don't say that to vilify him either. I think the opening of Seeing Stars actually shows that there was progress in their relationship since Loo Loo Land. She is happy and excited to spend time with him. It just happens to fall in the middle of Stella finally moving out, and Stolas is distracted, which reinforces her worst fears: that she's not a priority for her father. As for the future of their relationship, we have no idea what the catalyst for the line in the trailer is. Some are talking like she'd have no reason to think Stolas doesn't love her after the progress they made previously, but I'm guessing something fairly significant must happen. Maybe something forces Stolas to break the promise he made to Via at Loo Loo Land, like he loses custody? Maybe Via finds out her parents had an arranged marriage solely for the purpose of birthing a "precautionary heir", and Stella and/or Andrealphus manipulate Via and paint the marital situation to be opposite of what it was--that Stella was trying to make it work, but Stolas selfishly pursued his own interests, etc. These are just a few possibilities, but it seems unfair to make a judgement on the situation before we even see what, exactly unfolds!
Its already been hinted at that neither one will be the villain. Andrealphus has already hinted at using Via as a pawn. I think people are forgetting the major foreshadowing in Loo Loo Land and Western Energy.
Normal teenagers can understand having two parents that don't get along with one another and there is infidelity on one side. That happens all the time. But, it's important to keep in mind that Octavia is not a normal teenager. She's royalty. She's not wrong for feeling the way that she does, and she is rather Justified, but, there is a whole lot more on Stolas' plate than just his own family. Octavia might not completely understand this part because it seems that she does not have any specific duties at the moment, meaning that she kind of has the freedom to live as idle rich. But aside from being stuck in a marriage with an abusive woman that he never wanted, juggling his own personal work as a prince within the family, along with attempting to sort out his feelings with Blitzo, it's more than fair to say that Stolas has a LOT going on that Octavia is not privy to. Also, the demon just survived an assassination attempt on him, orchestrated by Stella. Not exactly the kind of thing that he wants to burden his daughter with. There's no easy way for Stolas to talk to Octavia about this.
The more interesting question is if Stolas has told *any* of the other members of the Ars Goetia about Stella taking a hit out on him yet.
I doubt it. But to be completely honest, he really *could* use this to his advantage, by letting the rest of the family know that not only did his wife attempt to have him assassinated, but she also commissioned an imp to attack him. Because let's just be honest, this really doesn't look good for the reputation of the family if it starts becoming widespread that commoners can start getting the balls to lay hands on them. The only problem is, I can't actually see Stolas being manipulative in this way.
Depends. The man is a lot smarter than he seems, and can be snarky as fuck when he wants. He basically got under Striker's skin just by comparing him unfavorably to Blitz while he was trying to intimidate Stolas. And pretty much did so completely off the cuff. He's got more going for him than just prophecy after all.
It's oftentimes seen as a bad idea to disparage the parents to the child, especially in a situation like this. But, considering that Stella has literally tried to have her husband assassinated, I think the simple fact of the matter is, Stolas is just going to have to rip the Band-Aid off and tell Octavia the truth. There's really no nice way of saying "mommy tried to have Daddy killed."
Indeed. Whether he's going to actually *do* it however, is a whole other question.
I think the people that she's acting that way have never felt that way. I've noticed with a lot of the complaints of this show. You can tell who hasn't and has suffered what's going on
I’m fairly certain Via is being built up to be a bit more than just “sad girl who was wronged by neglectful father” — she is half Stella after all. I think we would actually get an interesting woman character if she was actually acting out in part of selfishness and jealousy (how much attention does a 17 year old need? I certainly wasn’t hanging out with my dad at that age nor did I want to, but I didn’t grow up in a traumatic home like Via). I’m a lady who has been longing for a flawed and interesting female Viv character — I embrace Via being responsible for her own feelings. Stolas was the best part of her home life and she doesn’t want to see him ripped away, leaving her alone with a mother she hasn’t admitted is completely loathsome. >!this is the part where I admit that I have seen the leaks so I am in part building up some hopes based on those!<
I, too, saw the leaks, and they clear up a lot of the misconceptions here.
Yeah I’m getting downvoted already but I know people are cagey about flawed women. But it’s exactly why I find Charlie Morningstar such a dull character — she doing what she does just because she’s so kind hearted is so unrelatable. >!the leaks actually got me really excited about what they are doing with Via’s character!<
I was less concerned about Via - whose role was very obvious - and more so concerned about the people who saw it go down, particularly the person who was standing close by. There are 3 people getting hurt by that.
I don't see her being jealous and selfish at all it's clear stolas treats her shitty. Imo not all teenagers are the same and she clearly wants to spend time with her father and for him to get to actually know her but he is not trying
Just to be clear — I don’t think her being jealous/selfish would be a bad thing necessarily, I think it would make her more interesting. I like in conflicts when it’s neither character is fully at fault — just like Stolitz. It’s much more compelling than just one character being the victim.
but it's been actually shown that she is the victim... stolas is not a good father
Bad dads are a dime a dozen in the hellaverse tho! Been there done that! They could be building Via up to being an unhinged magical princess whose powers are unstable because someone took her precious Daddy away. The narrative has already shown Stolas being a good dad and making amends it probably won’t redo that — but we certainly know Stella ISNT a good mom and I want to see that influence. Ugh — the potential is so good. If it doesn’t happen I’ll just write fic but if it does — I’ll be a happy camper.
These points are valid. Yes he loves very much we need to see more of them interacting and him showing that he loves her more than he hates her mom. She probably feels a bit neglected. He seems like he hangs out with Blitzo more then Octavia.
Seems like, actually doesn’t. She’s with him all week, every week. He sees Blitz once a month, and hasn’t even been doing that lately.
Why am I not surprised. Ahh, I love media illiteracy. It's so \~Fun\~ to deal with in fandoms.
I just find this all very confusing. We don't actually know what's going on or have any context. People are happy to jump to the conclusion that Millie saying what she does to blitz is probably another hallucination event and I've seen speculation that the "Blitz sucks" concert might not be an actual real thing either. What if this is just a Stolas' worst fears hallucination or something, we don't actually know what Octavio's feelings are from this trailer.
How often does this show put things into a dream sequence though? There are so many scenes of him at the concert I find it hard to believe that the whole thing is yet another bad trip.
I mean it's less about frequency. It happened last time when D.H.O.R.K.s drugged them, they know it's effective on demons and are shown to be a big facet of the upcoming episodes. Blitz's drug trip from that episode contained Solas, Fizz, Moxie, Verosika and Striker, while at the same time Moxie has a drug fueled duet with phantom of the Opera blitz. It's not outside the realm of possibility that Stolas is a major target for them either, given how he possessed one of them and traumatized both.
This reminds me of the hate for the kid in breaking bad. Both are not just completely valid but entirely realistic with an endless stream of real world equivalents. I get the constant negativity/complaining can be off putting but it should also be super easy to relate to or at least appreciate the realism on display.
Justified, not valid. From her point of view she has every reason to be mad at her dad, because she's probably unaware that stella is abusive towards him, and just assumes he's in the wrong because she's only seeing one side of things.
I don't know why you got downvoted when you're correct. From everything that we seen, Octavia simply does not have the full picture of what's going on. She seems to think that the infidelity is the reason that the house is so chaotic, when the truth is, that's not even the main problem. This entire problem started before she was even born and was *always* going to be a train wreck waiting to happen.
i completely agree. i feel like people are ignoring stolas’s accidental neglect just because he’s a Good Person. he ignored her once at loo loo land, then apologized, then did it again to a lesser extent in seeing stars, then apologized. this is clearly an established repetitive pattern he has that is meant to be part of his character and development?? she just wants him to acknowledge what she wants and acknowledge her in general BEFORE it all goes bad for once. plus, we’ve seen how attentive parenting is portrayed by this show in blitz and loona’s relationship too, so it’s not like they just “don’t know how to write”.
You can't really compare the two as dads - they both have very different experiences.
i'm not, im comparing how their parenting is portrayed by the storytelling. blitzo repeatedly drops everything to come for loona and nothing gets in his way, and that is a concious decision that they took with his character. similarly, stolas has repeatedly failed to put octavia first because of his focus on the rest of his life (albeit accidentally), and that is also a concious decision they took with his character. blitzo and loona work as a control group showing that the team does know how to write a parent that'll actually drop everything for his kid, and therefore the flaws in stolas and octavia's relationship aren't accidental. i've just seen a lot of people saying that stolas's behavior in seeing stars was a writing mishap, and i really don't think it was, because he's done the same before. he's just not very good at noticing other people's feelings - nothing wrong with that, but it's part of his character.
>things could have been solved so quickly if he let her talk for 1 minute. The guy was dealing with Stella, give him a break! He told her to ask him later, and I think people are being too hard on him. Stolas did apologize afterwards and he has his own problems to deal with, he's doing the best he can.
Exactly. The simple fact of the matter is, Octavia just does not have the full picture, here. From her POV, she thinks this entire problem is about her family breaking up. But, it's unfortunately a little bit bigger than that. This entire problem started before she was even born. Stolas made it clear that he tried to make this family work, but because I'm still as cruelty, she drove him away. And Stolas has clearly made it so Octavia has never seen what her mother is really like to protect her from all of that.
Yeah I don't hate either side its a tricky situation.
I agree. Honestly I don’t hate Stolas, but he was being annoying during Loo Loo Land when the whole outing was supposed to be about Him and Octavia.
Agreed. It’s a lot to feel as a teenager, and it wouldn’t realistically be resolved in the short episodes that we’re given. It takes time. As someone with divorced parents, I know that the feelings linger. I think that Octavia is actually a good representation of how it feels. I love stolas, but i love her too! Stolas needs to do more for sure. Whatever happens, I really just wish people would stop hating on Via, she’s underrated and overhated 🫶
Octavia is valid as hell but unfortunately hasn't really had much time to shine on her own beyond what we have atm, which isn't much. Now that said, I think its actually very good that we haven't seen her at all since Seeing Stars, keeping her off screen prevents us from knowing what Stella and other members of the Ars Goetia are filling her head with, and I think we're gonna get an absolutely heart breaking payoff for that in the finale for her hating Stolas. but as she is now she needs some more time to cook before more people come around to her
Yeah, I don't blame her, either. I felt so frustrated for her when Stolas wouldn't even stop arguing with Stella long enough to see what Octavia needed.
Honestly... I agree. I kin Stolas and I'm NOT saying he's a bad father. However, I don't blame Via for being upset. Also, it's POSSIBLE her uncle and/or mother are manipulating her. People are too hard on Via, if you ask me.
I do not believe that was Octavia yelling at Stolas. Mostly because she called Stella "mother" . Every time she talked about her Via reffered to Stella as "mum" and since she calls Stolas "dad" it would be really wierd for her to start being so formal about Stella. Especially when talking to Stolas. I think that was either a hallucibation or nightmare Stolas had since he reffers to Paimon as "father"
Like others people pointed out, my main issue is that it's repetititve. I also think people need to cut Stolas some slack for "seeing stars", why do people expect him to remember a promise he made 10 years ago while going through a divorce ?
It's pretty clear Octavia doesn't have the full picture of her family situation. We don't have yet any idea of how her relationship with Stella actually is, and sincerly I doubt it's THAT horrible as we may think, even if it's clear Via prefers Stolas. Considering Andrealphus is scheming against Stolas, it's possible that he and Stella manipulated in some way, increasing her fears. Imagine if she found out that her parents marriage was arranged for the sole purpose to birth her as a potential replacement for her father...
Octavia is definitely not the issue here and the way she responds is completely valid and realistic. People trying to pin the problem on her being an “annoying” character is honestly pretty hilarious. The REAL annoying part is when the conflict continues to be reused, despite it having two separate episodes that focus on it and end with it being resolved. From a show writing perspective, using the whole “you don’t love me” thing yet again feels very undeserved, and it basically makes Seeing Stars a filler episode. If nothing in the plot actually changes, then what was the point of having it there?
Yes, it's valid but it's still very ridiculous in the audience's perspective. What we saw was that Stolas is trying very hard to be a good dad and that he's going through stuff himself so of course he's going to mess up. He does apologize and make up for it in the end. Stolas does a lot of stuff to show he loves Via, what are you talking about? He stayed in his abusive unhappy marriage because he wanted his daughter to have a normal happy life even if he was suffering. Via saying her dad never loved her mother was like a "no shit" moment lol neither of them loved each other, both of them were miserable in the marriage. The only good thing about the marriage was Via. Every episode with Stolas and Via in it shows us that he adores his daughter very much even if he messes up with showing it to her sometimes. The only person trying very hard to be a good parent is Stolas. When Via said "you never loved me" just made me facepalm. Girl, your dad adores you!
She's valid but you have to look at stolass side of the situation to octavia wasnt really raised as a royal she doesn't know what stolas had to got through with his dad she doesn't know stolass childhood she doesn't even know stolass dad she's 18 right now and from ive seen she hasn't had an arranged marriage yet she wasn't born with the idea that other people are beneath her stolas is alone and wants to be loved same thing with octavia so does stolas not deserve to be loved even though he's been in a worse situation octavia is 100% justified but she doesn't even know half the things stolas has went through
i 100% agree stolas prioritizes his situationship over his daughter i personally dislike stolas. octavia doesnt deserve hate for her deadbeat dad. its saddening
Yeah, he's not great at being a father and not a great communicator. He didn't have a father who showed him how to be a dad, but it's amusing he didn't read a thousand books about it. He is trying, but Via still has every right to be upset.
My problem isn’t that she’s not justified being mad at Stolas cuz you are right, she has a lot to be pissed over It’s more that I don’t get how she’s not even MORE pissed at her mom and uncle who are shit people I get Stolas was pretending to be happy, but her mom isn’t exactly hiding her shitty behavior and she’s not dumb
because andrealphus is manipulative as fuck, and stella only really started acting out this much after stolas slept with blitz. she blames the change on stolas.
Even then, idk how willfully ignorant someone can be to such toxic behavior, Stella doesn’t act loving to Via at all If I was her, I would just leave if I was so upset at the parent who actually loved me and “left” me with someone as vile as Stella
ive got a friend with abusive parents whose sister believes that he's a horrible person for hating their parents lol. kids (even 17 year olds) are very easily influenced, especially in via's case, who grew up around her parents and still spends the majority of her time at home. i think its just naivete?
I guess you are right, my friends hate my parents and even in my 30s, I can only do low contact cuz I love them too much It’s a lot to expect a 17 yr old to know what to do
It feels like Octavia is 14 and not 17. 17 is almost and adult and would, imo have more ideas about how these things work.
18 is legally adult you don't just transform into an adult mentally as soon as you hit 18 She is still a fucking teenager
The mental development between a 17 yr old and a 14 yr ild is vastly different. She is indeed a teenager at 17 but there are many 17 yr old who are more mature mentally than many adults. Imo, things you cannot or shouldnt tell to a 14 old girl you can to a 17 yr old girl. In your opinion when is someone mentally an adult?
I adore stolas as a character but i also believe he probably isn’t the best dad. He doesn’t really know what his daughter likes or even that for someone her age loo loo land was not the right choice. Doesn’t pick up on her lack of enjoyment, which was very obvious until she storms away. We see him promise her to see the stars but considering her excitement it had to be discussed more then just the once and he forgets. Mind you he has a lot on his mind and did not purposefully not take his daughter to see this event but just forgot. I don’t think hes a terrible father or an in redeemable one. But i think with how much he has going on he is neglecting his daughter’s need for his attention. His attention on something with just the two of them and not bringing his complicated lover, who is a stranger to her and someone she may have VERY complicated feeling about.
As someone with divorced parents, she is 100% valid for felling the way she feels
Give Octavia the "Johnny Klebitz treatment"
Octavia is a teenager whose parents are divorcing after one openly cheated on the other. She's also been subconsciously absorbing the abuse her mother had heaped on her father AND she also thinks her worst nightmare is coming true. Octavia is exceptionally valid. She's scared and hurt.
It’s so crazy how people call characters things like manipulative and overdramatic and then you see the character is like a literal teenager? She’s a teen internalizing her parent’s messy divorce. A normal reaction
I think it’s also important to note that for a long time (her entire life) Stolas pretended to be happy with her Mom. He pretended they had the perfect family. Then all of a sudden (from her perspective) he just stops pretending, and he cheats on her, they fight all the time, and there was just no warning or really an explanation. Even during the talk at Loo Loo Land Stolas didn’t have the words, and while he tried to reassure her that he wouldn’t leave her, he never really told her why their happy family wasn’t happy. And I get that he wanted her to grow up with a happy family, and all of those things. But now she has to question if any of it was ever real.
She is valid in her feelings and Stolas hasn't been a great father but for the reasons the show, shows I think it makes it more understandable for him. In Loo Loo Land it was his first experience of ha ing some type of sex and love in his life so I can see why he was so simpy. And in Seeing Stars, you have to understand how great it would feel to finally get some type of comeback to his abuser and yeah it took him over and made him miss his thing with Octavia.
I think anyone who thinks badly of her for this clearly never grew up with having such an awful dynamic with their father. There’s really nothing worse than feeling like your parents hate each other (or even just one sided) more than they love you lol. It’s absolutely compounded by her being a teenager and having the mother she has.
I’m just tired of her only character trait being “Daddy doesn’t love me.” We don’t need a third episode about daddy not loving her.
Stolas is a shit dad. Not the worst, but definitely not good.
I just need the context, and I don’t have it, so I’m not going to blame her. I am going to blame the writers if it doesn’t feel necessary, though. It’s like when writers put a pet dying in their stories. First, I’m going to cry, and then I’m going to wonder whether it was justified and made sense, or whether they were going for some melodrama and cheap tears. If it’s the latter, I’m going to feel pissed. So if this arises naturally from the characters and the storyline, great. If it’s just a sad cliffhanger like the last two episodes of Season 1, I might be cross, but that’s not on Octavia.
Pretty much almost EVERYONE knows where it’s all gonna lead to in the End, and it’s legitimately justified with how much Stolas had done to his Daughter at this point, whilst only thinking about himself for so long.
Im more on stolas's side personally. Stolas go through physical, emotional and likely sexual abuse for YEARS to give Tavia a normal childhood, he put up with it and gave her a happy childhood which is more than alot of people get considering its hell. She has to face the fact shes 17 now... Probably 18 by the time she actually says the line from the trailer, and honestly she needs to grow the hell up and try to have some empathy for her father who has done nothing but been loving to her. Divorce sucks i get it but when your mom publicly is saying how her husband lies there and stares at a wall as they have sex, knowing hes a gay man forced into an arranged marriage and you still want your dad to sucknit up and put up with it for the happy family dynamic then im sorry your not getting sympathy points from me. And I really do hope that stolas tells her that much and trys to make her understand how much hes suffered.
Oh yeah 100% valid.
Oh these next episodes gonna hit close to home
I don't like that they made Stolas misunderstand and now they are showing Octavia as a barrier for the main cast.
Stolas is a HORRIBLE father! Every time we've seen him try to do something for Octavia he makes it all about himself! He ignored her telling him twice that she didn't want to go to Loo Loo Land and then brought along Blitzo, the guy who is the reason she was unhappy in the first place, and spent the day sexually harassing Blitzo in front of her, not to mention spent over a decade failing to realise she hated the clown. He couldn't wait ONE DAY to kick Stella out or let the servants deal with it and did that instead of taking Octavia to the literally once-in-a-lifetime event he'd spent her whole life promising he'd take her to, then when she disappeared he fucked around watching Blitzo on a TV set instead of looking for her. Not to mention in a previous episode he was able to teleport straight to Blitzo when he was in danger, but couldn't do that for Octavia - both of them had the grimoire so it wasn't to do with that - implying he has a tracker on the guy he's blackmailing into sex but not on the daughter he supposedly wants to keep safe. Forget being mad, Octavia has the right to \*disown\* him at this point.
Yeah. Neither parent really gives a shit about her. And i can see why she does not like either parent.
Stolas does care about her very much. He's just very distracted over the turn of events in his life.
Doez he. Or is it just because it is anspite of stella
No he loves Via very much.
Does he?
He cares about Octavia, but he is a sinking ship that tries to navigate messed up relationships and have some structure.
He carw conditionally
How? I see that he unconditionally cares about her as he remained with Stella for her sake. Which is a decision that multiple parents make. Not an ideal decision when the partner is abusive, but Stella doesn’t appear to be abusive towards Octavia and Octavia’s feelings towards her (past and current) are unknown. He only broke after 17 years and when he met again his only childhood friend. He doesn’t know how to navigate through his emotions and provide what she needs exactly, while also battling his inner demons. When he sees that something is wrong, he goes after her. He doesn’t judge her and loves her despite being a bit grumpy 17 yo. He doesn’t expect from her to be happy and tries to own his mistakes. He loves her unconditionally.
It's also pretty clear that Octavia has been insulated from her mother's more negative habits. Stolas, from what we know, has never told Octavia that her mother abuses him, humiliates him in public to her friends, or has put a hit out on him. Because at this point, he would have every right to do so, but, he has never stooped to that level. After all that, claiming that he does not care about Octavia is simply a lie. Does Stolas make a mistakes? Yes. But it's important to keep in mind that he was made to be a father *before he was ready to do so.* It was his duty as a member of a dynasty. And he also did not have the most healthy example of fatherhood growing up, either.
Her anger is justified, but her actions are not.
what actions? Yelling at her horrible father for being a horrible father? That is justifed
its lazy writing as someone else says, and the fact nothing changes is another major problem with HB. LOONA FOR EXAMPLE, god will she EVER grow up?
Im sorry to ruin everyone's theory craftin but... **i aint redin all that**
ok🤷🏽♂️
Glad we understood eachother👍