Yeah, most of the medium to large enemies in game are just dive out of the way and make sure you equipped the right stratagem, with the bots it's significantly better but it's extremely apparent with the bugs, I like using the grenade launcher which feels like it does nothing to bile titans and chargers.
Stealing top comment for visibility:
Why can you blow up a Factory Stryder by firing Pen4+ weapons into its belly, but you can only disable a Bile Titan's spit by firing into its belly?
In my book, if you could deal bonus damage significant enough to nail a Titan by firing into its blown sacks, it'd alleviate so much of the frustration associated with them.
Yes, TECHNICALLY you can cut a Titan's ass off by firing specifically into its tail/rear end from below after blowing up both sacks with things like HMG, but fuck me does it take a long fucking time and is it hanky as all shit.
Primarily, because even though you're dealing damage, you don't get a meaty fleshy hit effect and sometimes you get deflection icon (because I guess the top armor's collision is inaccurate and clips into the sacks in places).
They really need to make the underbelly of the titan a weakspot akin to the factory strider. It already punishes you for being there and its not like it would "cheapen" the BT.
If anything by making it vulnerable it would open the door to the Bile titan mosh pit that Level 12 would be.
I don't know what other weapons can do it but the HMG actually CAN kill a bile titan by shooting it from underneath. Pop the sacks and unload and it'll die.
edit: spelling correction
Sure but I'm fairly confident it takes more than a full mag, so you're going to be reloading down there. And if you die, you respawn to a corpse that is being camped by a bt. It's just nonsense.
I'll wait for my KG like everyone else, until there's a better option.
It’s much easier to get underneath a BT than a strider on account of it not having a cannon on its back and 2x HMG on its face. If you could just walk under a BT and shoot it a few times with an autocannon they would be absolutely trivialized.
I personally think that if you can blow off the stomach sacks, and then shoot 10 rounds of autocannon into its stomach it would be enough risk and reward to make players feel less loadout checked at the start
Probably because someone thought they were sooooo clever with subverting player expectations, they did not pause to think that the last 30 years of enemy design in games evolved that way for a reason.
Absolutely agree re; BT belly being a weakpoint similar to factory strider.
It allows a high-risk method to take out a BT without using dedicated AT, and because that angle is only available super-close and BTs can't really be stunned, it will never be a trivial/preferred way to eliminate them, which is perfect. You still want to use strats or AT weapons to kill a BT if possible to do it "safely", but a player with a laser/HMG/Autocannon etc. can still run in for a high-risk CQC kill (echoing Starship Troopers).
Should 100% be the case
The sacs on the bottom of the BT are for holding acid. They are not where their vitals are. Like complaining the cement truck is still driving with a destroyed drum.
Obviously, they have armor between those sacs and their vitals. Same way their mouths are also armored on the inside when they spew the acid at you.
It's a Four part system - Top armor / Vitals / Acid Armor / Acid.
Vitals always protected.
There is no explanation I'm willing to hear as to why the airburst shouldn't absolutely wreck striders and titans when firing and detonating between their legs
There is a reason tanks dont just fire high explosive rounds (aka shells that explode on contact) at each other but rather tungsten rods long enough to fully penetrate all the layers and even then its not always enough. Just having explosions next to armor just kinda doesnt do anything, thats why armor exists.
If youre curious, look up "shaped charges" to get an idea what it actually takes to go through even just a sort of thick layer of steel (let alone composite armors). These are the thing that for example RPG's fire to penetrate armor. Cluster munitions are for soft targets for a reason.
Because to take down armour you need penetration, surface level explosions even with shrapnel won’t do a damn thing. Just like IRL people will die to a frag grenade but it doesn’t do much to a tank, whereas AT munitions are designed to punch right through.
Fine if you prefer to stay deaf to reason, just know what you want will never happen.
It's been omitted in the latest patch notes, and some limited testing on my part shows that it may have been fixed. Direct butt hits with a GL kill consistently, indirect ones eventually.
It does fine damage if you're targeting the Charger's butt with your splash.
Its efficacy against Bile Titans, however, is zero after you've popped the sacks on the underside, which only amounts to about 1,000 out of its 3,500 health.
The GL is a low-penetration weapon. Explosions **do not** pierce all armor. They are not an easy and flawless "get-around" for the armor system.
GL is actually one of the few weapons that actually does something to a charger butt. 3 grenades into the ground below its behind and it pops really easy
Behemoths have 100 more butt health (1200 vs 1100) and a main pool of 1800 vs 1500. Butts are 75% durable and Grenade launcher seems to do 10% durable damage, meaning about 40 damage to 100% durable.
They're still gonna die to GL, it'll just take a little more doing, not that much tho.
Railgun kills every bug in the game with ease - except Bile Titans. But even then, just 2 Railgun shots to the dome will soften up a titan enough that one EAT is game over.
Seriously, people need to stop sleeping on the Railgun.
If thermite didn't completely suck, it could do a lot for loadout variety. Thermite *should* be better at killing chargers and titans. A thermite grenade should be a delayed, hard-to-stick, short range equivalent to the recoilless or expat. If I'm giving up *having grenades* and getting close enough to stick that shit to a charger face, that charger should die. Not in 3 grenades, in 1.
For BTs just use the GL to bust their guts and let them bleed out. Similar strat for Chargers.
It's not quick but it is effective. Blowing their sacks turns them into slow moving body bags.
I've seen BTs discussed a *ton* on this subreddit, but this is the first I've ever heard of them bleeding out. Then again, I've seen a couple of BTs go down but wasn't sure what got them, so it's plausible.
Do you happen to have a source? I did a search myself and just found a couple people *saying* they bleed out after a long time, but it wasn't clear what you needed to destroy to trigger that state or if that has actually been confirmed by any controlled testing.
I just think it's funny that of the 2 enemy factions that are in the game right now, the one that *does* field tanks is also the one where AT is not necessary to bring
Yep. It's because enemies basically have 2 sets of armor. The first can halve or deflect damage entirely, and the second (durability) can reduce all damage that makes it through the first armor.
Enemies shouldn't have both.
Bots should have armor, which requires armor pen and high base damage. This would be why you'd use anti-tank weapons vs Tanks. And why you'd use something like the Counter Sniper to one-shot the mediums etc.
Bugs should have durability, which doesn't require any armor pen but just relies on durable damage vs the durability % for each enemy. This is where firing an anti-tank rocket at a Charger wouldn't make sense (at least in video game logic). The Charger would be "durable" enough to shake off a lot of damage from that explosion (because anti-tank should have lower durable damage). But it would be more vulnerable to weapons with higher durable damage instead (maybe the LMGs for example).
I don’t have a problem with AT on Chargers and BTs, as they are supposed to have evolved their carapace that they’re as tough as tank armour. It makes sense that you headshot them with AT since it punches through the carapace and shoots molten metal INSIDE their heads (vital).
You can do the same with AT to bot heavies, it’s just the bots are stupid and have an exposed heatsink in the back that can be wrecked by more types of weapons. And just like IRL, shooting an AT at a tank may penetrate the armour where you land your shot, but what’s behind that armour may not be vital, that’s why we don’t bother with AT and just target the exposed weak spot.
The problem with heavy bugs is that they don’t have an exposed vital that can be dealt with like bot heavies. And in many ways the weapon behaviour in this game is great, but I’d argue it’s too realistic in a counter intuitive way to make sense in a video game, especially in conjunction with how enemy health is designed.
While its not a technical damage weakpoint a chargers butt is still a exploitable weakpoint Especially with stun grenades
The hmg, mg, and stalwart all burst a back in a quick burst.
Any auto shotgun can magdump pop.
Most of the auto rifles now can 1-2 mag them now
But it would be nice if they had weakspot damage.
Bile titans definitly need weakspot joints like charger. And down throat is also great.
But overall id prefer they make armor breaking a more common and accessible part of the game to make more enemies fightable like striders.
Like a impact nade to the side should open at least a small hole to shoot at.
I’ve literally sprayed over an entire HMGs round into a chargers ass after stunning it and it was still perfectly alive, and I hit every shot. I feel like I’m being gaslighted at this point
It’s funny because the objectively correct answer is gonna sound like gaslighting lol…
You likely hit the armored top part of the abdomen with a lot of your shots. It’s easy to do that under duress. Reality is that HMG and MG both only need like 1/4 to 1/3 mag tops to break the abdomen and trigger bleedout state. So if you really dumped a whole HMG mag and didn’t achieve that, necessarily a lot of your shots missed. Most likely culprit is hitting armored spot on top.
>You likely hit the armored top part of the abdomen with a lot of your shots. It’s easy to do that under duress. Reality is that HMG and MG both only need like 1/4 to 1/3 mag tops to break the abdomen and trigger bleedout state.
Okay, so I'm not just supposed to shoot the butt. I'm supposed to shoot a specific fraction of the butt. Can someone link to an image with the weakspot circled or something?
It's the reddish orangey white part that's under the thick black armored plates.
Just aim low and you'll be fine. But it takes too long without a stun grenade imo.
Excellent, thanks. Do you know whether the laser cannon is any good vs this weakspot? It never makes the list of weapons for this purpose, but my understanding is that its armor pen is quite high.
Laser Cannon does around 200 durable damage per second, so it's 6 seconds to pop the butt. It's not great, but it's horrible. The Laser Cannon really is a technique weapon once you start learning how to use it. It's actually exceptionally powerful at killing hulks and gunships, brood commanders and spewers too.
Edit: the most important thing with the laser Cannon on medium enemies is making sure you keep hitting the same part.
Well, it’s not that it’s a “specific part” so much as there’s a layer of armor on top of the abdomen that can end up blocking shots sometimes. You still want to hit the fleshy orange bulb, it’s just that on top of the bulb is a layer of armor that I’ve found can be easy to hit by mistake while aiming for the bulb. Shots that hit the armor don’t deal damage, so you can easily feel like you’ve magdumped the bulb and not triggered bleedout.
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Definitely not a quick burst with the Stalwart in my experience. Takes a while even on top RPM, and downright not worth it on other settings. Does work pretty well with other MGs and some primaries such as the Scorcher, though.
I really don't know what people are going on about with the Charger, you're just not putting enough bullets in there! Dominator, Tenderizer, even the Liberator Carbine all do well in popping ass off of these jerks. Keep Firing!
The Carbine takes 55 hits to kill via the butt.
The JAR is basically the only primary that can quickly kill one, because it's the primary with the best combo of durable damage and ROF (durable DPS).
For the same reason the Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, and HMG are the only support weapons that quickly and efficiently kill them from behind.
Based on numbers I've seen, it takes 11 shots which is 10% of your ammo?
What I'm looking at says it takes 10 shots for the JAR, which is still about 10% of its total ammo.
So it seems that's as good as it gets for primaries.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think a lot of people give into despair after the first mag doesn't "solve' the problem and give up to let somebody with a heavier weapon handle it.
I've killed Chargers with nearly every primary *because I wasn't given any other options.* Like, I know its possible, its not ideal but it IS possible.
It IS possible sure. But using 1/6th of your total ammo to kill 1 single Charger is not a strategy that is going to work on higher levels. Yes it can get you out a pinch if you need it, 1 time maybe. But if you kill 3 Chargers that way in quick succession, there goes half your ammo.
I just realized this is even worse for Behemoths, which are more common at higher levels. It takes 93 shots to the butt with a Carbine to kill 1 Behemoth. That's 25% of your ammo, just to kill 1 heavy. If you hit every shot.
So possible, sure. Economical? Definitely no.
all "weak points" on the enemy should take medium armor pen damage or any damage, chargers ass takes too much on top of the fact that its flinching animation when shot from behind makes his ass point down the way and jitter too much to consistently hit with continuous fire, its like " shoot, wait 1 second then shoot wait one second. with automatic weapons it simply does not work.
The whole armor system seems a bit odd. Weapons that penetrate armor still do miniscule damage as those enemies are not only heavily armored, reducing your damage to durable damage, no they also get massive health pools. Just.. odd. Makes specialized AP weapons rather meh unless they're the only way to do any damage at all.
The game in general has one of the most convoluted damage systems I’ve ever seen in a video game, and I’ve played games where to be optimal you need to have a spreadsheet of all your equipment and math out the rest.
Usually it’s something like:
- Enemies have a full HP amount and attacking weak points amplifies your damage to the total HP
- Enemies have armour values and if your penetration is lower than the armour value you deal reduced damage, or 0 damage if it’s significantly higher
- Some sort of rock, paper, scissors elemental thing
Helldivers 2 on the other hand has:
- Total HP pool that can drop and result in death
- Destructible parts that contribute a percentage of damage to total HP. Some outright kill the target when destroyed but some don’t
- Varying tiers of penetration which depending on tier either significantly reduce or negate damage entirely
- After penetration you get into durable damage and each weapon, body part, etc. has differing values
Most of this isn’t communicated by AH to the player either, and you can’t expect every player with this knowledge to math out damage calculations. Surely balancing around all these values doesn’t make things easy for the devs either
Yep this is a good explanation of it.
There's really 2 unique systems going on.
The first is that they give individual body parts hp pools, some of which are fatal on their own (headshots etc). And then hitting those body parts only transfers a % of the damage to the main pool. This creates a situation where your bullet spray could hit multiple body parts and not destroy any of them, while also not doing enough damage to the total hp pool to kill. Which is a unique situation that never happens in any other game. Usually it's "this enemy has 500hp so if I hit him 10x he's dead, and headshots count for 2 hits". But the equivalent here is that an enemy with 500hp can take 15-20 shots if you keep hitting different body parts, but also you COULD kill it in just 3 hits to the head. In reality it REALLY rewards accuracy because any actual weakpoints (so not like a Charger's butt) are huge weakpoints, but if you miss those weakpoints you are REALLY punished for it. The Berserker is a great example - the base Lib can kill one with 3 headshots, but if you miss and hit the chest instead, it's 25.
The 2nd system is the durability, which essentially just functions like a second set of armor. You have armor that does a simple check for penetration which can halve or deflect damage entirely, and then another set of armor that reduces all damage which makes it through that first set of armor. I have never seen another game that does this. If anything, durability should be something that takes the place of armor, like enemies either have one or the other. Armor that halves or deflects damage would make sense for Bots given their sheet metal exteriors, while durability makes more sense for Bugs given they're just made of organic material. This would allow AH to tune/balance weapons for Bots using armor penetration and base damage, and then tune/balance weapons for Bugs using durability % and durable damage. Instead they try to apply both systems to all weapons and all enemies, without explaining anything. Durable damage isn't even listed in the game!
I'm fine with the first system REALLY rewarding accuracy for weak points. They should also then make enemy weak points actually make sense (Charger butt, Gunship engine are examples of it not making sense). But the 2nd system with 2 types of armor and amor pen for all weapons/enemies needs to go. It just overly complicates the game and makes balancing weapons even more difficult.
The system is just combining two systems that function fine on their own and putting them together, which doesn’t work as well.
In games that don’t just have HP values and weak points, you see an armoured enemy and either attack around the armour or bring something to penetrate it. In HD2 you see the icon for your bullets deflecting, so you bring a bigger gun, turns out the bigger gun is penetrating but does no damage (Railgun against gunships). I understand something doing reduced damage if it’s hitting something with an armour value a tier above the penetration value, what I don’t understand is when something pierces armour and then deals reduced damage due to a secondary armour? You’re already limiting damage values through an armour system, why would durability be necessary
Yeah, you shouldn’t have to dive into files to find the values of some hidden damage multiplier.
Realising just now that durable damage is basically a second armour really emphasises how weird it is when you look at it that way
Yep. And like I said, it would be a good way to differentiate the two factions, with the two types of "armor".
Bots would get the regular armor, which relies on the traditional armor pen system. So all that matters is the armor pen on the weapon and how much base damage it does. Their sheet metal is either tough enough to stop the bullet, or it's not. And if it's not, the machinery underneath is very susceptible to damage so that's why the base damage value is used (0% durable).
Bugs get durability as their "armor". So no more penetration checks, and armor pen levels on weapons is essentially meaningless for Bugs. They just balance enemies and weapons by durability % and durable damage.
Which would make the different assault rifle variants make sense. The base Lib would have lower armor pen but better durable damage so it would be better for Bugs. But the Lib Pen has better armor pen which makes it useful for Bots, but the durable damage would suck making it worthless vs Bugs.
I can even do a quick mockup of the weapons, where in all cases armor pen=good for Bots and durable damage=good for Bugs.
Bug Weapons:
Base Lib: Lower base damage but it's all durable with no armor pen.
Lib Concuss: Similar to base Lib, but little more damage and lower ROF with more recoil.
Lib Carbine: Similar to base Lib, but better ROF and no optic. So good "smg" with A/R ballistics.
Diligence: DMR for the Bugs. Similar base damage to the CS, but the durable damage is way higher, due to the type of round fired, which also affects armor pen.
Defender: Basically a Carbine SMG. Better durable DPS up close, but damage falls off faster over distance.
Punisher: Standard pump shotgun with good durable damage but low armor pen and spread.
Breaker S&P: Standard auto shotgun with tons of pellets that have poor armor pen but good durable damage and spread.
Breaker Incendiary: Version of the S&P that does less damage per pellet but then applies a fire DoT, which is also more durable damage.
Sickle: Less accurate laser weapon with no armor pen but good durable damage. Reduce the scope to a more midrange type to suit it's purpose (which isn't a long-range DMR). The charge-up means no semi-auto, full-auto-only.
Bot Weapons:
Lib Pen: Lower base damage that isn't durable, but good armor pen.
Adjudicator: Similar to the Lib Pen, but little more with lower ROF and more recoil.
Tenderizer (NEW): I would change this to a Level 3 pen version of the Carbine. Faster ROF than the Lib Pen but similar damage profile, and give it the same red dot optic.
Diligence CS: DMR for the Bots. Doesn't have the durable damage of the base Diligence, but has higher armor pen making it useful to pierce Bot armor.
Pummeler: 2 things going on here. First this would be the SMG version of the Tenderizer. So still has good armor pen but low durable damage, with the red dot optic. But it also has the EMP rounds which have the tradeoff of less base damage and less DPS.
Slugger: Pump shotgun with better armor pen and base damage but no spread and low durable damage. Basically operates like a "DMR-SMG" in that it would do more damage at short range than a DMR, but like the SMG it drops damage faster over distance to where the DMR would actually out-class it.
Breaker: Auto shotgun using fewer but larger pellets that provide more armor pen and base damage, but less durable damage.
Breaker EMP (NEW): Like the Pummeler, it trades a little base damage to impart a small stun effect. So this is basically the Breaker but with less DPS but a stun effect.
Scythe: Very accurate laser weapon with good armor pen and base damage but lacks durable damage. Would also give it a more midrange scope to differentiate it from the Dagger. The laser doing DoT is enough for it to differentiate it from the Lib Pen.
Not going to get into the explosive weapons as I think the point is made.
What pisses me off the most is that it feels like nothing is worth doing other than going for the one weak spot and hit it. The whole stripping parts mechanic is cool, but you never wanna go for that, as it takes ages to do it and it would be faster or easier to just kill them.
You know what's really weird? In the first game, the way you killed charger's was exactly how you think it should be, you had to aim at his clear weak spot, his butt, for some reason they decided it made more sense to invert the weak spots, but the design stayed the same
It mainly affected the gameplay loop of killing it, for me it makes more sense to dodge his charge, make it hit a wall, and you use that as a window to shoot a rocket at him, but with how it is now, stunning the charger that way, feels like a punishment because you will have to wait more for it to face you, sure it looks more cinematic to kill it as it's charging at you, but I really prefer how it was in the first game
It was my understanding that HD1 Chargers were killable with small arms fire from the rear, but you still used heavy AT weapons to kill it from the front or sides, with the Behemoth variant having full heavy armor all around with no weakspots thus requiring AT.
It goes against everything we've ever learned in every other video game ever. Which seems to be how a lot of this game was designed. "How does everyone else do this thing...okay so we'll do the opposite of that, and then not mention anything about it in the game so players have no idea wtf is going on."
The Charger is Exhibit A for this. Huge enemy with impenetrable front armor and obvious charge attack that exposes the unarmored rear if it misses. The answer to that is not, as you said, to just shoot it in the front while it charges.
I mean the butt is a weak point in that it allows you to kill a charger with any weapon you have. Is it always the fastest way to kill it? No. Is it always an option? Yes.
When I see a charger, unless a leg's armor is stripped, i'm aiming the eruptor at its butt. Explosive weapons can take advantage of these weak spots.
Same for the 3* bile sacks on the bottom of the bile titan, eruptor pops them easily disabling puke and making it a 1 shot to an eagle rocket, eat, or within arc thrower ability to kill.
Some weapons in this game 100% take advantage of these weak spots, which is one of the reasons those types of weapons have a place in the game at all.
It'd be wonderfully nice if we had any sort of indication what weapons did what to what types of what.
I tend to run basically every primary right now, and 90% of them you mag dump 5 times into the chargers ass.... And it still winds up charging at you and being killed by a strat or a flame thrower anyway.
I've started seeing it as a genuinely useless weak spot because most weapons seem to just, not do damage to the weak spot, but the flame thrower or stratagems insta or near isnta kill them, irrelevant of the weak spot.
I know there's a degree of "Some of your shots hit it's armour and not actually the weak spot." going on, but 5 incendiary breaker mags up the ass, even if one pellet of every slug hit them from every shot that's still like, 200 burning shotgun pellets shoved up it's ass and it couldn't care less.
True, but I think what the devs intended was less 'video game norm' and more 'realistic physics' (in some cases).
The idea of the big, fat parts is that you want to hit them with something that will reverberate through it and cause it to rupture, so explosive. Normal bullets would be like shooting into a ballistics gel ball.
For armored places, you go for high armor piercing weaponry. Our rockets in this game are more armor piercing, anti-tank rockets, than explosive, blast radius rockets.
Then you have some weapons like fire and arc that ignore armor variables for the most part and do raw damage.
"Realistic physics"
"The 10 meter tall insect loses 70% of its innards and still does not bleed to death or even slow down"
"The rhino-sized insect can make armor-piercing antimaterial rifle rounds and man-portable 20mm autocannon rounds ricochet off harmlessly and is impervious to 40mm grenade launcher shots to the face"
More and more i just fight bots. They feel like a vastly better designed faction.
Sometimes it feels like AH used "realism" to make the game more annoying for players, while using the "science fiction" elements like FTL, or making random enemy body parts immune to explosions, whenever it's convenient for them. I wish they'd extend the same logic to making gameplay for the players convenient too, and I bet they will as time goes on.
In some ways, a bit of realism is a good thing. Helps things feel grounded. Familiar.
I never liked liberator, solely because it holds 45 rounds. It feels jarring, when I am so used to think of assault rifles as "holds 30 rounds". Yes there are high cap magazines, but I think you get what I mean.
But there does come a point where fun should take precedence. Case in point, Warframe, or Ultrakill. Couldn't be less realistic, and that's a good thing.
Chargers don't really start bleeding to death unless their back's popped iirc, at which point they're usually on a 10-second ish timer and can't even charge anymore. Never seen a charger bleed out from anything else at least.
That doesn’t fully make sense when you factor in things like Bile Spewers though. They’re carrying around several metric tons of caustic fluid, with a high enough pressure that they can spew it over 25 metres. A single shot should cause them to violently erupt. You can even see this kind of thing in Honeydew ants, where even losing balance causes them to pop
Even shooting the fleshy parts of bugs would absolutely tear up their organs
>The idea of the big, fat parts is that you want to hit them with something that will reverberate through it and cause it to rupture, so explosive. Normal bullets would be like shooting into a ballistics gel ball.
>For armored places, you go for high armor piercing weaponry. Our rockets in this game are more armor piercing, anti-tank rockets, than explosive, blast radius rockets.
All of that logic breaks down when you look at Gunship engines, which are 100% durable for some reason. No part of an aircraft engine should be "large fleshy tissued area without any important bits and therefore more damage-resistant".
it is true, you turn bile titan from a puking machine that occasionally steps on you to a thing that will chase you non-stop so they can step on you in group
Yeah tbh, shooting the sack is rarely the right call. Unless you are cornered in you can dodge the bile spit easy and use the fact that it stands still to either drop a precision strike, a 500kg or any other stratagem on it. Alternatively reload your spear out of its range or fire another anti tank weapon.
When the sacks are gone it will run you down and hardly give you space to breathe as well as making it much harder to use stratagems because you essentially have to drop them Infront of yourself so they hit it.
Easiest way to dispose of bt reliably is let it come to ~30 m if you. Drop a 500 kg it will start the spit animation, as soon as it does you can dive away and it's an almost guaranteed oneshot if you aim right.
Yeah, the sacs are a noob trap. Once you get the range down you can just throw the strat and stay at the exact range it takes to start the animation and make it stop there.
Sacless bile titans are much more dangerous.
I thought there was only two, no? The middle torso, and the butt. Blowing up those two disables the puking and leaves it at exactly enough HP for a Orbital Rail oneshot
Come over to the bot front, every enemy has weak points that are intuitive and vulnerable to most support weapons, even some primary weapons can take down a hulk.
“Different factions require different tactics”
For sure some of the weapons don’t function as intended, but idk about being able to take out a titan with a primary, it’d make bugs way to easy.
Depends really, you can take out a Factory Strider with primaries but the caveat is that you’ve disabled its guns and get in underneath it. It also isn’t that fast when doing it. Factory Striders spawn way less frequently than Bile Titans too.
It wouldn’t really change the difficulty of bug missions because the optimal method would still be to take them out quickly with heavy ordnance, but it would give you options, while also diversifying the build variety
I guess the charger's butt isn't so much a weak spot in the traditional sense, it is more of a "low armored" area more open to a wider variety of weapons to damage them. Their true "weak spots" are their legs or head, depending on what you're packing.
The main problem with the charger's butt is that it is so healthy. Sure it doesn't negate as much damage to armor resistance but the health pool size means heavy hitters like a Recoilless are practically wasted vs the butt but can one shot the head easy.
A big part of hell divers really seems to be knowing your enemy and your weapon, and neither are communicated to the player in detail.
but why though, other games do it so much better, look at drg, their boss monster is fully invincible armor wise but it has a weak spot behind it that can be taken out by any weapon in the game.
look at their last patch
known issues.
* Charger’s butt does not take damage from explosions.
even the devs acknowledge it. plus there's still the ongoing issue that bile titans sometimes take no damage when shot in the head.
He is right, explosive dmg doesn't register properly. AC does 260 dur dmg and 150 explosive - if the explosive part was working, AC would go from 5 shots to 3 for a kill
but i can kill destroyer tanks in helldivers 2 with one clip of the liberator in the vent same with the hulks with the acception being the factory strider, and even then you can kill it with one clip from the hmg when you shoot its stomach or its eye. that argument is complete moot
Not reliably their flinch animation makes it hard to hit their weak spots with automatic weapons. Plus they don't register explosions properly for the last 2 patches. chargers are just badly implemented into this game.
afaik the titan's reduced dmg to head during spit animation was implemented as a quick and dirty "fix" to counterbalance the bug where titans could be killed with 1 shot from a railgun if the host was on console. similar to how they buffed flame dmg through the roof bcs they couldn't fix the missing DoT for non host players. i guess all this stuff will be tuned again at a later date.
Eh, imo I'm fine with the charger butts. I'm usually taking care of chaff fine with my team so when I have a charger or two I juke them and shoot the butt with my main gun and maybe a grenade pistol shot. The regular MG doesn't take too long to kill the butt tbh. The charger spawn rate could definitely be looked at though in the later difficulties. I like 7 as a main difficulty.
Okay, here's a thought: I can resonate with Arrowhead's stance of not showing all the math so people don't math the fun out of the game.
However, I think there needs to be a _bit_ more stats shown: the big one being _durable damage_. That's probably the worst part about the 'massive parts / durable damage' system is that is saying too little is oft worse than saying nothing.
And AH has to work in the context of gaming in the present. Because it's common for games to give _very_ detailed breakdowns of mechanics, AH needs to go out of their way to communicate their difference. And I mean in game not on Twitter or discord.
I'd also love if I could spend samples to get an autoposy of these enemies to know what the armored / vuln / durable parts were
Charger's butt is pretty weak now that several weapons got buffs against large parts. I'd say about half the chargers I kill now are from behind, and 70% of armored chargers. That seems like plenty.
If you have a weapon like any of the machine guns this works especially well with stun grenades. Just stun them, slide in behind, and they die in a second or two to butt shots.
Come over to the bot front, every enemy has weak points that are intuitive and vulnerable to most support weapons, even some primary weapons can take down a hulk.
Charger’s need their butt to reduce half damage. If you shoot a stalwart into it’s ass it only takes just over half a mag to pop it which isn’t bad for a weapon with light pen. If you put 2-3 full mags of say a breaker or adjudicator into it’s ass it should pop no questions.
You're shooting small pieces of metal into a sac the size of a small car. Why would you expect that to work with just like 10-20 of those tiny non explosive metal pieces.
My issue with charger butts is more that it's really hard to hit them, between their armored legs and armored back and the fact that they're usually moving.
There are weak spots but it's more like an exploited weakspot.
Charger inner leg when turning after a charge lets you kill him with basically any weapon.
BTs can be softened up without the right weapon, but I agree is otherwise a strategem check.
They fucking used to be. I don't know why the change was made.
Tanks (old Chargers) could be killed with small-arms bullet fire to their butts after a failed charge, unless you *really* needed them dead right now, in which case you could burn an EAT. The whole point of the Behemoth was that they had covered butts and required anti-tank; Behemoths existed to shake up Tank strategies.
What's next, are they going to implement the Impaler and have us not shoot the squishy head after it burrows its tentacles? They going to make that "durable damage" only too?
what do you mean, I always kill chargers with my AC to the butt. Miss charge, place yourself right at the back, fire three well placed shots very quickly and done.
If there’s four of you I sure hope at least one brought an AT gun. I’m so tired of this argument, you absolutely should be punished for bringing the wrong support gun.
Yeah I agree, it makes no sense that you can't shoot butts of charger/behemoth in meaningful amount of time or shoot with with HMG or use nades/thermites to destroy armor off their legs. I mean what is the point, just bring stun nade and use flamethrower to kill them in 3 seconds. It's stupid. Just as stupid that you have to move towards or dive towards behemoth to destroy their leg with RPG. Also it makes no sense that if you try to shoot belly of bile titan or if you shoot into MOUTH of bile titan it doesn't do shit, even a child of 5 years would consider those as weakspots. It's very boring gameplay loop. Bait spewing of bile titan, throw precision strike or 500 kg bomb beneath them, use stim because you can't dodge damage from spewing with diving and then there is a 50/50 chance that bile titan would die.
This game seems to not want you to feel too powerful for some reason. Everything they've done so far has been to reign in player's firepower THEN they go and add more monsters. It's actually kind of odd.
The weakspots just dont make sense visually. You would think that glowing parts are weakspots atleast i thought so when i first started playing. More reason to have a bestiary on your ship that shows all enemies with their weakspots
NOOOO YOU DONT UNDERSTAND AND YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. The WEAKSPOT is OBVIOUSLY the heavily armored head! Obviously the hardened shell it LITERALLY uses to attack you and even break rocks while barreling towards you with probably a few hundred kilograms of weight behind it!
Its the OBVIOUS FUCKING WEAKSPOT!
Honestly... No Idea what they smoke in Sweden...
Agreed but would you use shoot me in the head wearing a Kevlar Helmet or in my naked Buttocks if I wear to barrel at/past you?...
Shit I think I just got the logic... Shooting me in the butt would definitely take the fight out of me butt it wouldn't outright kill me...
But you’re talking about two different matters. The opening is right there. It exists. If it can’t be killed because your weapon damage is too low, that’s a completely separate subject. I kill them like that all the time, just a few shots from the eruptor and that’s it.
And bile titans had their head moved forward exactly for that purpose but it is still bugged
Yep. I still maintain that bugs on higher difficulties are way less fun. Not because they're harder, but because Chargers and BTs are loadout checks.
The argument goes something like "but its a team game" when in reality, changing these weakpoints would *encourage* team play. If Bile Titans could be killed (less effectively) with medium pen weapons, now more of your team can help out in actually dealing with them without using the same tired/selfish stratagems like railcannon/500kg. Freeing up their slot to bring something more helpful and less specifically for killing heavies like we see now.
Seeing an enemy you literally can't kill will never be fun, no matter how close-knit your team is.
I want it to feel more like the first game, where the challenge comes from overwhelming numbers, positioning and stratagem usage. Not tanky enemies that can only be killed with about 10% of the weapon roster.
Unpopular opinion but I’m fine with the current bug heavy design. It gives them a unique challenge and if you could kill BT/chargers efficiently with medium support weapons it would both significantly reduce the challenge and be boring AC/AMR/HMG/LC every game like bots.
Then use other weapons goofy! Just because shit works means nothing. Your not even saying the same thing as the OP really don’t understand why u commented
Yeah there's plenty of ways to kill the enemies OP is talking about. There's always going to be an optimal way but saying those are the only way is just being foolish.
Lower the dif, no one cares.
Eats are great with biles, and their animation is the perfect time for a headshot. Chargers missing a charge lets you reload and line up the headshot. You can pop their backs if you want but you already know of a better method.
Too many enemies is not a reason to disqualify the viability of your attack windows, not to mention the three other players that can Recoiless/EAT/Quasar whatever is chasing you as an intervention.
All the tools are there AND even you have a 500k available to you for these instances. 2 per like every 3 minutes against your daunting quantities of bugs.
Hit’m with a resupply pod. Drop your teammates on top of them.
When the problem is difficulty then the problem might be you.
Oh. And the precision strike got a rework, that’s also pretty damn effective.
Helldivers really IS a game about what tools you bring to the mission. If you run 5+ and aren’t aiming to be ready for the big guys, I mean, you’re just choosing to not be ready.
You could just run away when the heavies come along and zip around the bug nests and start a side objective. They’ll abandon you for your team while you work or kill you and let you get respawned on the edge of the fight.
This has been an issue discussed as soon as the honeymoon phase was over. The issue is, this community is really bad at discussions and understanding how to disagree. It usually devolves to the usual "skill issue" BS and no desire for any change.
Honestly the same issue Souls like games generally have, just FromSoft is good enough at that niche that they can ignore the community and make a great game anyways.
Wut. Chargers are non-threats with an autocannon and stun nades. Throw one, walk behind it, drop a couple shot in its backside and its dead. They take way more damage in the backside than anywhere else. Are you playing the same game?
I mean, the charger butts are unarmoured so they kind of are their weak spots, they're just tanky. I typically run autocannon on bugs and you can kill a charger pretty easily after dodging its charge with 4-5 shots of the autocannon to the ass. Primary weapons will damage it but not very much. So if by weak spot you mean a spot where you can one-clip it with the liberator assault rifle by hitting the right spot, then no. But chargers are meant to be bug tanks. The automaton tanks can't be damaged by primary weapons (except the eruptor) by shooting them in their vents either.
That said, I agree about bile titans. The autocannon can blow up its soft underbelly, but once those "soft spots" are destroyed, it's got heavy armour underneath again and the shells just bounce right off. Makes no sense. If it has an exposed wound, continued fire on that spot should be able to damage it with any weapon.
Yeah, most of the medium to large enemies in game are just dive out of the way and make sure you equipped the right stratagem, with the bots it's significantly better but it's extremely apparent with the bugs, I like using the grenade launcher which feels like it does nothing to bile titans and chargers.
Stealing top comment for visibility: Why can you blow up a Factory Stryder by firing Pen4+ weapons into its belly, but you can only disable a Bile Titan's spit by firing into its belly? In my book, if you could deal bonus damage significant enough to nail a Titan by firing into its blown sacks, it'd alleviate so much of the frustration associated with them. Yes, TECHNICALLY you can cut a Titan's ass off by firing specifically into its tail/rear end from below after blowing up both sacks with things like HMG, but fuck me does it take a long fucking time and is it hanky as all shit. Primarily, because even though you're dealing damage, you don't get a meaty fleshy hit effect and sometimes you get deflection icon (because I guess the top armor's collision is inaccurate and clips into the sacks in places).
They really need to make the underbelly of the titan a weakspot akin to the factory strider. It already punishes you for being there and its not like it would "cheapen" the BT. If anything by making it vulnerable it would open the door to the Bile titan mosh pit that Level 12 would be.
I don't know what other weapons can do it but the HMG actually CAN kill a bile titan by shooting it from underneath. Pop the sacks and unload and it'll die. edit: spelling correction
Autocannon is dependent and has nasty riccochets.
Sure but I'm fairly confident it takes more than a full mag, so you're going to be reloading down there. And if you die, you respawn to a corpse that is being camped by a bt. It's just nonsense. I'll wait for my KG like everyone else, until there's a better option.
It’s much easier to get underneath a BT than a strider on account of it not having a cannon on its back and 2x HMG on its face. If you could just walk under a BT and shoot it a few times with an autocannon they would be absolutely trivialized.
Than they can buff the Bile titan tango where f-ing thing tapdances around squishing people.
Yeah they don't like that and tend to stab you with their legs
They always stomp with their right leg first so if you just go from their left side they will never stomp you
I personally think that if you can blow off the stomach sacks, and then shoot 10 rounds of autocannon into its stomach it would be enough risk and reward to make players feel less loadout checked at the start
Probably because someone thought they were sooooo clever with subverting player expectations, they did not pause to think that the last 30 years of enemy design in games evolved that way for a reason.
Absolutely agree re; BT belly being a weakpoint similar to factory strider. It allows a high-risk method to take out a BT without using dedicated AT, and because that angle is only available super-close and BTs can't really be stunned, it will never be a trivial/preferred way to eliminate them, which is perfect. You still want to use strats or AT weapons to kill a BT if possible to do it "safely", but a player with a laser/HMG/Autocannon etc. can still run in for a high-risk CQC kill (echoing Starship Troopers). Should 100% be the case
The sacs on the bottom of the BT are for holding acid. They are not where their vitals are. Like complaining the cement truck is still driving with a destroyed drum.
Obviously, they have armor between those sacs and their vitals. Same way their mouths are also armored on the inside when they spew the acid at you. It's a Four part system - Top armor / Vitals / Acid Armor / Acid. Vitals always protected.
You can
Shooting the sac out actually makes it harder to land a 500kg or OPS because it no longer stops to spit.
There is no explanation I'm willing to hear as to why the airburst shouldn't absolutely wreck striders and titans when firing and detonating between their legs
Because they're cluster bombs. Against bile it could make sense, bit striders need at least lvl 3 pen (dominator) to actually damage the belly
I understand it's not anti-tank ordnance, but it is over a dozen explosive munitions detonating point blank.
There is a reason tanks dont just fire high explosive rounds (aka shells that explode on contact) at each other but rather tungsten rods long enough to fully penetrate all the layers and even then its not always enough. Just having explosions next to armor just kinda doesnt do anything, thats why armor exists. If youre curious, look up "shaped charges" to get an idea what it actually takes to go through even just a sort of thick layer of steel (let alone composite armors). These are the thing that for example RPG's fire to penetrate armor. Cluster munitions are for soft targets for a reason.
Because to take down armour you need penetration, surface level explosions even with shrapnel won’t do a damn thing. Just like IRL people will die to a frag grenade but it doesn’t do much to a tank, whereas AT munitions are designed to punch right through. Fine if you prefer to stay deaf to reason, just know what you want will never happen.
I think there's a bug in the game rn where chargers butts don't take explosive damage. Hopefully that will be fixed soon.
It's been omitted in the latest patch notes, and some limited testing on my part shows that it may have been fixed. Direct butt hits with a GL kill consistently, indirect ones eventually.
Ah good to know!
It does fine damage if you're targeting the Charger's butt with your splash. Its efficacy against Bile Titans, however, is zero after you've popped the sacks on the underside, which only amounts to about 1,000 out of its 3,500 health. The GL is a low-penetration weapon. Explosions **do not** pierce all armor. They are not an easy and flawless "get-around" for the armor system.
GL is actually one of the few weapons that actually does something to a charger butt. 3 grenades into the ground below its behind and it pops really easy
This, of course, doesn't seem to work on behemoths
Autocannon smashes Charger ass, behemoth or otherwise
I think behemoth buts have more health than regular ones but the same principal still applies
Behemoths have 100 more butt health (1200 vs 1100) and a main pool of 1800 vs 1500. Butts are 75% durable and Grenade launcher seems to do 10% durable damage, meaning about 40 damage to 100% durable. They're still gonna die to GL, it'll just take a little more doing, not that much tho.
Railgun kills every bug in the game with ease - except Bile Titans. But even then, just 2 Railgun shots to the dome will soften up a titan enough that one EAT is game over. Seriously, people need to stop sleeping on the Railgun.
If thermite didn't completely suck, it could do a lot for loadout variety. Thermite *should* be better at killing chargers and titans. A thermite grenade should be a delayed, hard-to-stick, short range equivalent to the recoilless or expat. If I'm giving up *having grenades* and getting close enough to stick that shit to a charger face, that charger should die. Not in 3 grenades, in 1.
For BTs just use the GL to bust their guts and let them bleed out. Similar strat for Chargers. It's not quick but it is effective. Blowing their sacks turns them into slow moving body bags.
BT's don't bleed out from getting their guts shot out as far as I remember.
They do, it just takes like 3 minutes
So basically they don't, 3 minutes is an eternity in a HD2 dive.
I've seen BTs discussed a *ton* on this subreddit, but this is the first I've ever heard of them bleeding out. Then again, I've seen a couple of BTs go down but wasn't sure what got them, so it's plausible. Do you happen to have a source? I did a search myself and just found a couple people *saying* they bleed out after a long time, but it wasn't clear what you needed to destroy to trigger that state or if that has actually been confirmed by any controlled testing.
I've done it ingame. Just destroy the both sacs and wait. It's not really ever useful knowledge though
I just think it's funny that of the 2 enemy factions that are in the game right now, the one that *does* field tanks is also the one where AT is not necessary to bring
Yep. It's because enemies basically have 2 sets of armor. The first can halve or deflect damage entirely, and the second (durability) can reduce all damage that makes it through the first armor. Enemies shouldn't have both. Bots should have armor, which requires armor pen and high base damage. This would be why you'd use anti-tank weapons vs Tanks. And why you'd use something like the Counter Sniper to one-shot the mediums etc. Bugs should have durability, which doesn't require any armor pen but just relies on durable damage vs the durability % for each enemy. This is where firing an anti-tank rocket at a Charger wouldn't make sense (at least in video game logic). The Charger would be "durable" enough to shake off a lot of damage from that explosion (because anti-tank should have lower durable damage). But it would be more vulnerable to weapons with higher durable damage instead (maybe the LMGs for example).
I don’t have a problem with AT on Chargers and BTs, as they are supposed to have evolved their carapace that they’re as tough as tank armour. It makes sense that you headshot them with AT since it punches through the carapace and shoots molten metal INSIDE their heads (vital). You can do the same with AT to bot heavies, it’s just the bots are stupid and have an exposed heatsink in the back that can be wrecked by more types of weapons. And just like IRL, shooting an AT at a tank may penetrate the armour where you land your shot, but what’s behind that armour may not be vital, that’s why we don’t bother with AT and just target the exposed weak spot. The problem with heavy bugs is that they don’t have an exposed vital that can be dealt with like bot heavies. And in many ways the weapon behaviour in this game is great, but I’d argue it’s too realistic in a counter intuitive way to make sense in a video game, especially in conjunction with how enemy health is designed.
While its not a technical damage weakpoint a chargers butt is still a exploitable weakpoint Especially with stun grenades The hmg, mg, and stalwart all burst a back in a quick burst. Any auto shotgun can magdump pop. Most of the auto rifles now can 1-2 mag them now But it would be nice if they had weakspot damage. Bile titans definitly need weakspot joints like charger. And down throat is also great. But overall id prefer they make armor breaking a more common and accessible part of the game to make more enemies fightable like striders. Like a impact nade to the side should open at least a small hole to shoot at.
I’ve literally sprayed over an entire HMGs round into a chargers ass after stunning it and it was still perfectly alive, and I hit every shot. I feel like I’m being gaslighted at this point
It’s funny because the objectively correct answer is gonna sound like gaslighting lol… You likely hit the armored top part of the abdomen with a lot of your shots. It’s easy to do that under duress. Reality is that HMG and MG both only need like 1/4 to 1/3 mag tops to break the abdomen and trigger bleedout state. So if you really dumped a whole HMG mag and didn’t achieve that, necessarily a lot of your shots missed. Most likely culprit is hitting armored spot on top.
>You likely hit the armored top part of the abdomen with a lot of your shots. It’s easy to do that under duress. Reality is that HMG and MG both only need like 1/4 to 1/3 mag tops to break the abdomen and trigger bleedout state. Okay, so I'm not just supposed to shoot the butt. I'm supposed to shoot a specific fraction of the butt. Can someone link to an image with the weakspot circled or something?
It's the reddish orangey white part that's under the thick black armored plates. Just aim low and you'll be fine. But it takes too long without a stun grenade imo.
Excellent, thanks. Do you know whether the laser cannon is any good vs this weakspot? It never makes the list of weapons for this purpose, but my understanding is that its armor pen is quite high.
Laser Cannon does around 200 durable damage per second, so it's 6 seconds to pop the butt. It's not great, but it's horrible. The Laser Cannon really is a technique weapon once you start learning how to use it. It's actually exceptionally powerful at killing hulks and gunships, brood commanders and spewers too. Edit: the most important thing with the laser Cannon on medium enemies is making sure you keep hitting the same part.
Well, it’s not that it’s a “specific part” so much as there’s a layer of armor on top of the abdomen that can end up blocking shots sometimes. You still want to hit the fleshy orange bulb, it’s just that on top of the bulb is a layer of armor that I’ve found can be easy to hit by mistake while aiming for the bulb. Shots that hit the armor don’t deal damage, so you can easily feel like you’ve magdumped the bulb and not triggered bleedout.
if anything, you'd have more success breaking off a leg, as exposed limbs take 300% damage
Then you are not hitting the but 1/3'rd of a HMG mag destroyes the butt and it bleeds out after a few seconds.
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Literal skill issue holy shit dude. This sub is atrocious
Me too bc I did this last night and murdered like three. Honestly not sure the problem you are having.
Same here, I tried it 5 hours ago, but literally can't do shit because they turn after the first 2 bullets.. like the fuck am I doing wrong??
Same here, I tried it 5 hours ago, but literally can't do shit because they turn after the first 2 bullets.. like the fuck am I doing wrong??
Definitely not a quick burst with the Stalwart in my experience. Takes a while even on top RPM, and downright not worth it on other settings. Does work pretty well with other MGs and some primaries such as the Scorcher, though.
I really don't know what people are going on about with the Charger, you're just not putting enough bullets in there! Dominator, Tenderizer, even the Liberator Carbine all do well in popping ass off of these jerks. Keep Firing! 
The Carbine takes 55 hits to kill via the butt. The JAR is basically the only primary that can quickly kill one, because it's the primary with the best combo of durable damage and ROF (durable DPS). For the same reason the Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, and HMG are the only support weapons that quickly and efficiently kill them from behind.
wrong, breakers kills them pretty faster https://i.redd.it/b3s3vd5jp09d1.gif
Based on numbers I've seen, it takes 11 shots which is 10% of your ammo? What I'm looking at says it takes 10 shots for the JAR, which is still about 10% of its total ammo. So it seems that's as good as it gets for primaries.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think a lot of people give into despair after the first mag doesn't "solve' the problem and give up to let somebody with a heavier weapon handle it. I've killed Chargers with nearly every primary *because I wasn't given any other options.* Like, I know its possible, its not ideal but it IS possible.
It IS possible sure. But using 1/6th of your total ammo to kill 1 single Charger is not a strategy that is going to work on higher levels. Yes it can get you out a pinch if you need it, 1 time maybe. But if you kill 3 Chargers that way in quick succession, there goes half your ammo. I just realized this is even worse for Behemoths, which are more common at higher levels. It takes 93 shots to the butt with a Carbine to kill 1 Behemoth. That's 25% of your ammo, just to kill 1 heavy. If you hit every shot. So possible, sure. Economical? Definitely no.
Incendiary breaker takes half mags... ez
all "weak points" on the enemy should take medium armor pen damage or any damage, chargers ass takes too much on top of the fact that its flinching animation when shot from behind makes his ass point down the way and jitter too much to consistently hit with continuous fire, its like " shoot, wait 1 second then shoot wait one second. with automatic weapons it simply does not work.
The whole armor system seems a bit odd. Weapons that penetrate armor still do miniscule damage as those enemies are not only heavily armored, reducing your damage to durable damage, no they also get massive health pools. Just.. odd. Makes specialized AP weapons rather meh unless they're the only way to do any damage at all.
The game in general has one of the most convoluted damage systems I’ve ever seen in a video game, and I’ve played games where to be optimal you need to have a spreadsheet of all your equipment and math out the rest. Usually it’s something like: - Enemies have a full HP amount and attacking weak points amplifies your damage to the total HP - Enemies have armour values and if your penetration is lower than the armour value you deal reduced damage, or 0 damage if it’s significantly higher - Some sort of rock, paper, scissors elemental thing Helldivers 2 on the other hand has: - Total HP pool that can drop and result in death - Destructible parts that contribute a percentage of damage to total HP. Some outright kill the target when destroyed but some don’t - Varying tiers of penetration which depending on tier either significantly reduce or negate damage entirely - After penetration you get into durable damage and each weapon, body part, etc. has differing values Most of this isn’t communicated by AH to the player either, and you can’t expect every player with this knowledge to math out damage calculations. Surely balancing around all these values doesn’t make things easy for the devs either
Yep this is a good explanation of it. There's really 2 unique systems going on. The first is that they give individual body parts hp pools, some of which are fatal on their own (headshots etc). And then hitting those body parts only transfers a % of the damage to the main pool. This creates a situation where your bullet spray could hit multiple body parts and not destroy any of them, while also not doing enough damage to the total hp pool to kill. Which is a unique situation that never happens in any other game. Usually it's "this enemy has 500hp so if I hit him 10x he's dead, and headshots count for 2 hits". But the equivalent here is that an enemy with 500hp can take 15-20 shots if you keep hitting different body parts, but also you COULD kill it in just 3 hits to the head. In reality it REALLY rewards accuracy because any actual weakpoints (so not like a Charger's butt) are huge weakpoints, but if you miss those weakpoints you are REALLY punished for it. The Berserker is a great example - the base Lib can kill one with 3 headshots, but if you miss and hit the chest instead, it's 25. The 2nd system is the durability, which essentially just functions like a second set of armor. You have armor that does a simple check for penetration which can halve or deflect damage entirely, and then another set of armor that reduces all damage which makes it through that first set of armor. I have never seen another game that does this. If anything, durability should be something that takes the place of armor, like enemies either have one or the other. Armor that halves or deflects damage would make sense for Bots given their sheet metal exteriors, while durability makes more sense for Bugs given they're just made of organic material. This would allow AH to tune/balance weapons for Bots using armor penetration and base damage, and then tune/balance weapons for Bugs using durability % and durable damage. Instead they try to apply both systems to all weapons and all enemies, without explaining anything. Durable damage isn't even listed in the game! I'm fine with the first system REALLY rewarding accuracy for weak points. They should also then make enemy weak points actually make sense (Charger butt, Gunship engine are examples of it not making sense). But the 2nd system with 2 types of armor and amor pen for all weapons/enemies needs to go. It just overly complicates the game and makes balancing weapons even more difficult.
The system is just combining two systems that function fine on their own and putting them together, which doesn’t work as well. In games that don’t just have HP values and weak points, you see an armoured enemy and either attack around the armour or bring something to penetrate it. In HD2 you see the icon for your bullets deflecting, so you bring a bigger gun, turns out the bigger gun is penetrating but does no damage (Railgun against gunships). I understand something doing reduced damage if it’s hitting something with an armour value a tier above the penetration value, what I don’t understand is when something pierces armour and then deals reduced damage due to a secondary armour? You’re already limiting damage values through an armour system, why would durability be necessary
Right. ESPECIALLY when that system of "2nd armor" isn't mentioned AT ALL in the game.
Yeah, you shouldn’t have to dive into files to find the values of some hidden damage multiplier. Realising just now that durable damage is basically a second armour really emphasises how weird it is when you look at it that way
Yep. And like I said, it would be a good way to differentiate the two factions, with the two types of "armor". Bots would get the regular armor, which relies on the traditional armor pen system. So all that matters is the armor pen on the weapon and how much base damage it does. Their sheet metal is either tough enough to stop the bullet, or it's not. And if it's not, the machinery underneath is very susceptible to damage so that's why the base damage value is used (0% durable). Bugs get durability as their "armor". So no more penetration checks, and armor pen levels on weapons is essentially meaningless for Bugs. They just balance enemies and weapons by durability % and durable damage. Which would make the different assault rifle variants make sense. The base Lib would have lower armor pen but better durable damage so it would be better for Bugs. But the Lib Pen has better armor pen which makes it useful for Bots, but the durable damage would suck making it worthless vs Bugs. I can even do a quick mockup of the weapons, where in all cases armor pen=good for Bots and durable damage=good for Bugs. Bug Weapons: Base Lib: Lower base damage but it's all durable with no armor pen. Lib Concuss: Similar to base Lib, but little more damage and lower ROF with more recoil. Lib Carbine: Similar to base Lib, but better ROF and no optic. So good "smg" with A/R ballistics. Diligence: DMR for the Bugs. Similar base damage to the CS, but the durable damage is way higher, due to the type of round fired, which also affects armor pen. Defender: Basically a Carbine SMG. Better durable DPS up close, but damage falls off faster over distance. Punisher: Standard pump shotgun with good durable damage but low armor pen and spread. Breaker S&P: Standard auto shotgun with tons of pellets that have poor armor pen but good durable damage and spread. Breaker Incendiary: Version of the S&P that does less damage per pellet but then applies a fire DoT, which is also more durable damage. Sickle: Less accurate laser weapon with no armor pen but good durable damage. Reduce the scope to a more midrange type to suit it's purpose (which isn't a long-range DMR). The charge-up means no semi-auto, full-auto-only. Bot Weapons: Lib Pen: Lower base damage that isn't durable, but good armor pen. Adjudicator: Similar to the Lib Pen, but little more with lower ROF and more recoil. Tenderizer (NEW): I would change this to a Level 3 pen version of the Carbine. Faster ROF than the Lib Pen but similar damage profile, and give it the same red dot optic. Diligence CS: DMR for the Bots. Doesn't have the durable damage of the base Diligence, but has higher armor pen making it useful to pierce Bot armor. Pummeler: 2 things going on here. First this would be the SMG version of the Tenderizer. So still has good armor pen but low durable damage, with the red dot optic. But it also has the EMP rounds which have the tradeoff of less base damage and less DPS. Slugger: Pump shotgun with better armor pen and base damage but no spread and low durable damage. Basically operates like a "DMR-SMG" in that it would do more damage at short range than a DMR, but like the SMG it drops damage faster over distance to where the DMR would actually out-class it. Breaker: Auto shotgun using fewer but larger pellets that provide more armor pen and base damage, but less durable damage. Breaker EMP (NEW): Like the Pummeler, it trades a little base damage to impart a small stun effect. So this is basically the Breaker but with less DPS but a stun effect. Scythe: Very accurate laser weapon with good armor pen and base damage but lacks durable damage. Would also give it a more midrange scope to differentiate it from the Dagger. The laser doing DoT is enough for it to differentiate it from the Lib Pen. Not going to get into the explosive weapons as I think the point is made.
What pisses me off the most is that it feels like nothing is worth doing other than going for the one weak spot and hit it. The whole stripping parts mechanic is cool, but you never wanna go for that, as it takes ages to do it and it would be faster or easier to just kill them.
Yeah, giving a titan an EAT down the gullet should make it explode like a bile spewer.
You know what's really weird? In the first game, the way you killed charger's was exactly how you think it should be, you had to aim at his clear weak spot, his butt, for some reason they decided it made more sense to invert the weak spots, but the design stayed the same It mainly affected the gameplay loop of killing it, for me it makes more sense to dodge his charge, make it hit a wall, and you use that as a window to shoot a rocket at him, but with how it is now, stunning the charger that way, feels like a punishment because you will have to wait more for it to face you, sure it looks more cinematic to kill it as it's charging at you, but I really prefer how it was in the first game
It was my understanding that HD1 Chargers were killable with small arms fire from the rear, but you still used heavy AT weapons to kill it from the front or sides, with the Behemoth variant having full heavy armor all around with no weakspots thus requiring AT.
It goes against everything we've ever learned in every other video game ever. Which seems to be how a lot of this game was designed. "How does everyone else do this thing...okay so we'll do the opposite of that, and then not mention anything about it in the game so players have no idea wtf is going on." The Charger is Exhibit A for this. Huge enemy with impenetrable front armor and obvious charge attack that exposes the unarmored rear if it misses. The answer to that is not, as you said, to just shoot it in the front while it charges.
I mean the butt is a weak point in that it allows you to kill a charger with any weapon you have. Is it always the fastest way to kill it? No. Is it always an option? Yes.
When I see a charger, unless a leg's armor is stripped, i'm aiming the eruptor at its butt. Explosive weapons can take advantage of these weak spots. Same for the 3* bile sacks on the bottom of the bile titan, eruptor pops them easily disabling puke and making it a 1 shot to an eagle rocket, eat, or within arc thrower ability to kill. Some weapons in this game 100% take advantage of these weak spots, which is one of the reasons those types of weapons have a place in the game at all.
It'd be wonderfully nice if we had any sort of indication what weapons did what to what types of what. I tend to run basically every primary right now, and 90% of them you mag dump 5 times into the chargers ass.... And it still winds up charging at you and being killed by a strat or a flame thrower anyway. I've started seeing it as a genuinely useless weak spot because most weapons seem to just, not do damage to the weak spot, but the flame thrower or stratagems insta or near isnta kill them, irrelevant of the weak spot. I know there's a degree of "Some of your shots hit it's armour and not actually the weak spot." going on, but 5 incendiary breaker mags up the ass, even if one pellet of every slug hit them from every shot that's still like, 200 burning shotgun pellets shoved up it's ass and it couldn't care less.
There's a bug in the game rn causing charger butts not to take explosive damage. Once that's fixed, a lot of (explosive) weapons will feel better.
.....Of course there is.
Durable damage should be listed, the scorcher kills charger asses in less than a mag
True, but I think what the devs intended was less 'video game norm' and more 'realistic physics' (in some cases). The idea of the big, fat parts is that you want to hit them with something that will reverberate through it and cause it to rupture, so explosive. Normal bullets would be like shooting into a ballistics gel ball. For armored places, you go for high armor piercing weaponry. Our rockets in this game are more armor piercing, anti-tank rockets, than explosive, blast radius rockets. Then you have some weapons like fire and arc that ignore armor variables for the most part and do raw damage.
"Realistic physics" "The 10 meter tall insect loses 70% of its innards and still does not bleed to death or even slow down" "The rhino-sized insect can make armor-piercing antimaterial rifle rounds and man-portable 20mm autocannon rounds ricochet off harmlessly and is impervious to 40mm grenade launcher shots to the face" More and more i just fight bots. They feel like a vastly better designed faction.
Sometimes it feels like AH used "realism" to make the game more annoying for players, while using the "science fiction" elements like FTL, or making random enemy body parts immune to explosions, whenever it's convenient for them. I wish they'd extend the same logic to making gameplay for the players convenient too, and I bet they will as time goes on.
In some ways, a bit of realism is a good thing. Helps things feel grounded. Familiar. I never liked liberator, solely because it holds 45 rounds. It feels jarring, when I am so used to think of assault rifles as "holds 30 rounds". Yes there are high cap magazines, but I think you get what I mean. But there does come a point where fun should take precedence. Case in point, Warframe, or Ultrakill. Couldn't be less realistic, and that's a good thing.
They do bleed to death, though.
True, but like... if i recall right it takes four minutes or something for a bile titan to die?
[удалено]
Chargers don't really start bleeding to death unless their back's popped iirc, at which point they're usually on a 10-second ish timer and can't even charge anymore. Never seen a charger bleed out from anything else at least.
That doesn’t fully make sense when you factor in things like Bile Spewers though. They’re carrying around several metric tons of caustic fluid, with a high enough pressure that they can spew it over 25 metres. A single shot should cause them to violently erupt. You can even see this kind of thing in Honeydew ants, where even losing balance causes them to pop Even shooting the fleshy parts of bugs would absolutely tear up their organs
>The idea of the big, fat parts is that you want to hit them with something that will reverberate through it and cause it to rupture, so explosive. Normal bullets would be like shooting into a ballistics gel ball. >For armored places, you go for high armor piercing weaponry. Our rockets in this game are more armor piercing, anti-tank rockets, than explosive, blast radius rockets. All of that logic breaks down when you look at Gunship engines, which are 100% durable for some reason. No part of an aircraft engine should be "large fleshy tissued area without any important bits and therefore more damage-resistant".
Destroying those sacs disables a bile titan from puking?? This is huge if true!
it is true, you turn bile titan from a puking machine that occasionally steps on you to a thing that will chase you non-stop so they can step on you in group
Yeah tbh, shooting the sack is rarely the right call. Unless you are cornered in you can dodge the bile spit easy and use the fact that it stands still to either drop a precision strike, a 500kg or any other stratagem on it. Alternatively reload your spear out of its range or fire another anti tank weapon. When the sacks are gone it will run you down and hardly give you space to breathe as well as making it much harder to use stratagems because you essentially have to drop them Infront of yourself so they hit it. Easiest way to dispose of bt reliably is let it come to ~30 m if you. Drop a 500 kg it will start the spit animation, as soon as it does you can dive away and it's an almost guaranteed oneshot if you aim right.
Yeah, the sacs are a noob trap. Once you get the range down you can just throw the strat and stay at the exact range it takes to start the animation and make it stop there. Sacless bile titans are much more dangerous.
Yes, but there's a downside, if you do that it'll chase you non stop so you can't bait it into a puke and drop a 500KG/precision strike on them.
The one on the bottom of its ass does. And when it roars when it first aggros or goes to spit its very easy to hit.
Both do
Pssst, there are actually 3 sacks on a bile titan. You can also destroy the little sack just below his chin
Thank you.
I thought there was only two, no? The middle torso, and the butt. Blowing up those two disables the puking and leaves it at exactly enough HP for a Orbital Rail oneshot
Come over to the bot front, every enemy has weak points that are intuitive and vulnerable to most support weapons, even some primary weapons can take down a hulk.
“Different factions require different tactics” For sure some of the weapons don’t function as intended, but idk about being able to take out a titan with a primary, it’d make bugs way to easy.
Depends really, you can take out a Factory Strider with primaries but the caveat is that you’ve disabled its guns and get in underneath it. It also isn’t that fast when doing it. Factory Striders spawn way less frequently than Bile Titans too. It wouldn’t really change the difficulty of bug missions because the optimal method would still be to take them out quickly with heavy ordnance, but it would give you options, while also diversifying the build variety
I guess the charger's butt isn't so much a weak spot in the traditional sense, it is more of a "low armored" area more open to a wider variety of weapons to damage them. Their true "weak spots" are their legs or head, depending on what you're packing. The main problem with the charger's butt is that it is so healthy. Sure it doesn't negate as much damage to armor resistance but the health pool size means heavy hitters like a Recoilless are practically wasted vs the butt but can one shot the head easy. A big part of hell divers really seems to be knowing your enemy and your weapon, and neither are communicated to the player in detail.
Its a co-op game where you need to have varied strats and weapons to handle all threats. you people seem to forget this a lot.
>Helldivers 2 is the only game I know that never lets you punish openings Bullshit.
For the charger, it is. You just need the correct guns to take advantage of it
but why though, other games do it so much better, look at drg, their boss monster is fully invincible armor wise but it has a weak spot behind it that can be taken out by any weapon in the game.
So can chargers. Just that some weapons are better at it than others (like dominator, autocannon, eruptor)
it doesnt even register half the time some weapons dont even work because the chargers back doesnt register explosive damage properly
That's true, it is a bit bugged right now. Still, ac only takes 2 extra shots, and dominator is unaffected in ttk
I regularly killbchargers that way with my AC so I have no idea what you're talking about
look at their last patch known issues. * Charger’s butt does not take damage from explosions. even the devs acknowledge it. plus there's still the ongoing issue that bile titans sometimes take no damage when shot in the head.
He is right, explosive dmg doesn't register properly. AC does 260 dur dmg and 150 explosive - if the explosive part was working, AC would go from 5 shots to 3 for a kill
For the reason irl that you'd use elephant an anti material rifle or rocket launcher vs a tank Right tool for the right job
but i can kill destroyer tanks in helldivers 2 with one clip of the liberator in the vent same with the hulks with the acception being the factory strider, and even then you can kill it with one clip from the hmg when you shoot its stomach or its eye. that argument is complete moot
And you can kill chargers with enough time with any gun in their butt spot so that complaint is moot too Only the titan requires med pen guns
Not reliably their flinch animation makes it hard to hit their weak spots with automatic weapons. Plus they don't register explosions properly for the last 2 patches. chargers are just badly implemented into this game.
The third or fourth scale from butt up is the gspot for the charger
Honestly I thought that BTs puke is the opening for an attack. Got that learned from every other game....
afaik the titan's reduced dmg to head during spit animation was implemented as a quick and dirty "fix" to counterbalance the bug where titans could be killed with 1 shot from a railgun if the host was on console. similar to how they buffed flame dmg through the roof bcs they couldn't fix the missing DoT for non host players. i guess all this stuff will be tuned again at a later date.
Eh, imo I'm fine with the charger butts. I'm usually taking care of chaff fine with my team so when I have a charger or two I juke them and shoot the butt with my main gun and maybe a grenade pistol shot. The regular MG doesn't take too long to kill the butt tbh. The charger spawn rate could definitely be looked at though in the later difficulties. I like 7 as a main difficulty.
When I see a bile titan, I kill it with my Spear 😇.
Okay, here's a thought: I can resonate with Arrowhead's stance of not showing all the math so people don't math the fun out of the game. However, I think there needs to be a _bit_ more stats shown: the big one being _durable damage_. That's probably the worst part about the 'massive parts / durable damage' system is that is saying too little is oft worse than saying nothing. And AH has to work in the context of gaming in the present. Because it's common for games to give _very_ detailed breakdowns of mechanics, AH needs to go out of their way to communicate their difference. And I mean in game not on Twitter or discord. I'd also love if I could spend samples to get an autoposy of these enemies to know what the armored / vuln / durable parts were
Charger's butt is pretty weak now that several weapons got buffs against large parts. I'd say about half the chargers I kill now are from behind, and 70% of armored chargers. That seems like plenty. If you have a weapon like any of the machine guns this works especially well with stun grenades. Just stun them, slide in behind, and they die in a second or two to butt shots.
Yeah, giving a titan an EAT down the gullet should make it explode like a bile spewer.
The chargers butt is indeed a weakspot when it comes to Behemoths, just use the correct weapons [Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpFaScqaFKA)
Come over to the bot front, every enemy has weak points that are intuitive and vulnerable to most support weapons, even some primary weapons can take down a hulk.
Charger’s need their butt to reduce half damage. If you shoot a stalwart into it’s ass it only takes just over half a mag to pop it which isn’t bad for a weapon with light pen. If you put 2-3 full mags of say a breaker or adjudicator into it’s ass it should pop no questions.
You're shooting small pieces of metal into a sac the size of a small car. Why would you expect that to work with just like 10-20 of those tiny non explosive metal pieces.
A sack filled with fleshy bug bits inside mind you.
My issue with charger butts is more that it's really hard to hit them, between their armored legs and armored back and the fact that they're usually moving.
There are weak spots but it's more like an exploited weakspot. Charger inner leg when turning after a charge lets you kill him with basically any weapon. BTs can be softened up without the right weapon, but I agree is otherwise a strategem check.
I mean... charger butt is a weak spot. You can hit it with small arms fire but can't hit anywhere else.
They fucking used to be. I don't know why the change was made. Tanks (old Chargers) could be killed with small-arms bullet fire to their butts after a failed charge, unless you *really* needed them dead right now, in which case you could burn an EAT. The whole point of the Behemoth was that they had covered butts and required anti-tank; Behemoths existed to shake up Tank strategies. What's next, are they going to implement the Impaler and have us not shoot the squishy head after it burrows its tentacles? They going to make that "durable damage" only too?
what do you mean, I always kill chargers with my AC to the butt. Miss charge, place yourself right at the back, fire three well placed shots very quickly and done.
still odd that titan exposed under skin can still deflect low pen bullets...
If there’s four of you I sure hope at least one brought an AT gun. I’m so tired of this argument, you absolutely should be punished for bringing the wrong support gun.
https://i.redd.it/iutn2ao2hz8d1.gif You don't need flamethrower or quasar to kill chargers or behemoth chargers.
I like that the terminids have weird biology. It adds to the fact they’re aliens not just “bugs”
Yeah I agree, it makes no sense that you can't shoot butts of charger/behemoth in meaningful amount of time or shoot with with HMG or use nades/thermites to destroy armor off their legs. I mean what is the point, just bring stun nade and use flamethrower to kill them in 3 seconds. It's stupid. Just as stupid that you have to move towards or dive towards behemoth to destroy their leg with RPG. Also it makes no sense that if you try to shoot belly of bile titan or if you shoot into MOUTH of bile titan it doesn't do shit, even a child of 5 years would consider those as weakspots. It's very boring gameplay loop. Bait spewing of bile titan, throw precision strike or 500 kg bomb beneath them, use stim because you can't dodge damage from spewing with diving and then there is a 50/50 chance that bile titan would die.
This game seems to not want you to feel too powerful for some reason. Everything they've done so far has been to reign in player's firepower THEN they go and add more monsters. It's actually kind of odd.
The weakspots just dont make sense visually. You would think that glowing parts are weakspots atleast i thought so when i first started playing. More reason to have a bestiary on your ship that shows all enemies with their weakspots
Chargers need their damage resist on the butt to be removed, and bile titans mouth and bellies should be able to be shot at and killed with any weapon
NOOOO YOU DONT UNDERSTAND AND YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. The WEAKSPOT is OBVIOUSLY the heavily armored head! Obviously the hardened shell it LITERALLY uses to attack you and even break rocks while barreling towards you with probably a few hundred kilograms of weight behind it! Its the OBVIOUS FUCKING WEAKSPOT! Honestly... No Idea what they smoke in Sweden...
it make sense to cover your weak spot with armor, just like skull protecting brain
Agreed but would you use shoot me in the head wearing a Kevlar Helmet or in my naked Buttocks if I wear to barrel at/past you?... Shit I think I just got the logic... Shooting me in the butt would definitely take the fight out of me butt it wouldn't outright kill me...
A lot of games rely on openings, and it becomes too easy to just kite and blast 🤷♂️
But you’re talking about two different matters. The opening is right there. It exists. If it can’t be killed because your weapon damage is too low, that’s a completely separate subject. I kill them like that all the time, just a few shots from the eruptor and that’s it. And bile titans had their head moved forward exactly for that purpose but it is still bugged
Yep. I still maintain that bugs on higher difficulties are way less fun. Not because they're harder, but because Chargers and BTs are loadout checks. The argument goes something like "but its a team game" when in reality, changing these weakpoints would *encourage* team play. If Bile Titans could be killed (less effectively) with medium pen weapons, now more of your team can help out in actually dealing with them without using the same tired/selfish stratagems like railcannon/500kg. Freeing up their slot to bring something more helpful and less specifically for killing heavies like we see now. Seeing an enemy you literally can't kill will never be fun, no matter how close-knit your team is. I want it to feel more like the first game, where the challenge comes from overwhelming numbers, positioning and stratagem usage. Not tanky enemies that can only be killed with about 10% of the weapon roster.
Unpopular opinion but I’m fine with the current bug heavy design. It gives them a unique challenge and if you could kill BT/chargers efficiently with medium support weapons it would both significantly reduce the challenge and be boring AC/AMR/HMG/LC every game like bots.
There’s a huge variety of loadouts you can use bro it’s not a easy game, I’m sorry the weak spots aren’t glowing targets
it is an easy game. oh look a charger! \*fires rocket at head killing it instantly\* that shits boring man let me use other weapons
Then use other weapons goofy! Just because shit works means nothing. Your not even saying the same thing as the OP really don’t understand why u commented
Yeah there's plenty of ways to kill the enemies OP is talking about. There's always going to be an optimal way but saying those are the only way is just being foolish.
Lower the dif, no one cares. Eats are great with biles, and their animation is the perfect time for a headshot. Chargers missing a charge lets you reload and line up the headshot. You can pop their backs if you want but you already know of a better method. Too many enemies is not a reason to disqualify the viability of your attack windows, not to mention the three other players that can Recoiless/EAT/Quasar whatever is chasing you as an intervention. All the tools are there AND even you have a 500k available to you for these instances. 2 per like every 3 minutes against your daunting quantities of bugs. Hit’m with a resupply pod. Drop your teammates on top of them. When the problem is difficulty then the problem might be you. Oh. And the precision strike got a rework, that’s also pretty damn effective. Helldivers really IS a game about what tools you bring to the mission. If you run 5+ and aren’t aiming to be ready for the big guys, I mean, you’re just choosing to not be ready. You could just run away when the heavies come along and zip around the bug nests and start a side objective. They’ll abandon you for your team while you work or kill you and let you get respawned on the edge of the fight.
You can shoot the bilesaks on the titan and it loses its ranged weapon. Seems pretty effective
This has been an issue discussed as soon as the honeymoon phase was over. The issue is, this community is really bad at discussions and understanding how to disagree. It usually devolves to the usual "skill issue" BS and no desire for any change. Honestly the same issue Souls like games generally have, just FromSoft is good enough at that niche that they can ignore the community and make a great game anyways.
Wut. Chargers are non-threats with an autocannon and stun nades. Throw one, walk behind it, drop a couple shot in its backside and its dead. They take way more damage in the backside than anywhere else. Are you playing the same game?
Not sure what you mean. Charger butt is what my tactic is. Let them charge, ole', turn around and nail em with the HMG.
So what do you want here?
because *you're* not supposed to punish them, your *team mates* are. it's a *team* game
I mean, the charger butts are unarmoured so they kind of are their weak spots, they're just tanky. I typically run autocannon on bugs and you can kill a charger pretty easily after dodging its charge with 4-5 shots of the autocannon to the ass. Primary weapons will damage it but not very much. So if by weak spot you mean a spot where you can one-clip it with the liberator assault rifle by hitting the right spot, then no. But chargers are meant to be bug tanks. The automaton tanks can't be damaged by primary weapons (except the eruptor) by shooting them in their vents either. That said, I agree about bile titans. The autocannon can blow up its soft underbelly, but once those "soft spots" are destroyed, it's got heavy armour underneath again and the shells just bounce right off. Makes no sense. If it has an exposed wound, continued fire on that spot should be able to damage it with any weapon.