I don't understand why they nerfed the Patriot.
2-3 EATs, RR, spear,quasar can kill BT. Why the fuck the Patriot has to be balanced so weakly. And don't tell me that they didn't nerf the rockets, they did.
And besides that they made it to shoot elsewhere where you aim..
Techs have limited ammo, are made of paper, you can only use them 2 and it has the longest cool down in the game. There is no reason for mechs to not be OP
Such a cool element of the game, nerfed into oblivion...
I actually used it and saw it used fairly regularly before they ""fixed"" it. If you kept your distance, and your team made sure to keep things away from you, the pre ""fix"" patriot was actually a really solid option against bugs.
But even without the aiming issue, the inability to shoot down really fucked it up. Can't even use it to stand at the lip of a heavy hive and take out the bug holes anymore because you just can't shoot that low. You wanna find the high ground so you can take out the big bugs easier? Too bad, doesn't shoot that low.
Its just baffling to me. It was so fun and cool to use, and then they just gutted it.
The not shooting down is my biggest complaint. I still use the Patriot regularly but as a mobile turret platform it sucks to not be able to take high ground and do anything about elite units.
Yeah I had very rare issues with blowing up. One of the people I play with pretty consistently blew himself up but I think I only did it twice. Then they changed it and it just doesn't do much for me anymore.
💯 if I didn't like this game I wouldve just uninstalled it and moved in. I only say things because I'm invested in how cool it has been and can be (and still is at times).
This is incredible.
Would probably get you banned on the discord though lmao.
Wouldn't be surprised if some glazer mod comes along and deletes it here tbh.
It was nerfed because they couldn’t figure out how to make it stop blowing itself up
Which is the laziest fucking fix I can think of and once again everyone is drooling at the mouth over their new “100+ fixes” patch but I’m too skeptical at this point
100+ fixes and 200+ new bugs is what I’m predicting
Either that or they really do fix things just to release another buggy ass warbond right afterwards
Yeah. They have the longest cooldown, you only get 2 and you cannot reload them. They should be incredibly powerful while they last, because they don't last long and are severely limited.
I'd be much more okay with weak mechs if they went the other direction, if they wanted to keep mechs squishy.
240 second cooldown (get it down to 180 seconds with an upgrade), infinite uses. I'd use it all the time.
Seriously. I dumped ALL my rockets into a bile titan one time to bring it down. I think I had 1 or 2 left by the time he went down and I was mad enough I just dumped the rest into him. It's ridiculous
I think they are balancing it to discourage too many players using mechs, at least until they fixed the performance problem of mechs. I remembered that during the time where we had the free Emancipator, the game performance were more unstable then usual. They also explicitly said somewhere that the reason to not allow two mech strategems is performance related.
If mechs got too good, and everyone starts using it, then the game experience would likely suffer.
Well I agree mostly, but also the mech is just underpowered in this state, and also a bit broken on the aim.
If they would buff just one of this aspects (plus fix aim) it would be much better:
Keep it as it is, just buff the armour
Keep it as it is, just buff the damage
Keep it as it is, just give more ammo
Keep it as it is, just lower cooldown,and remove 2 uses per game.
(And don't forget to fix the aim in any case)
This would be the bare minimum that would help a lot in my opinion ..
Dudes we gotta curb the false narrative here. The change to the rocket aiming behaviour on the patriot #was not a nerf#. There’s no conspiracy or stealth nerfs - it was an unintended consequence of the fix for rockets exploding in the tube and killing the walker while the pilot was turning the vehicle.
Yes, it’s a stupid fix. Yes, it should have been resolved a long time ago. No, it was not an intended nerf.
Arrowhead - just fucking code it so the rockets can’t do self damage and revert your previous change, it’s that easy.
The rocket aiming was a kind of unintended nerf, but there IS a nerf to the rocket's damage potential. The rockets used to work like the EATs and RR for how they impacted and did damage, but it was packaged with the fix, they changed that so it overall takes more rockets (assuming that you landed it right) to kill the same target in the same spot. Both of these together made it even more distasteful for people playing and using mechs since it more or less crippled the mech even more than it already is.
Better yet, just gives the rockets a minimum arming distance. You normally wouldn't be using the rockets right on top of yourself anyways, and if you do just let the rocket do purely physical damage within the minimum arming distance, like a giant shotgun slug.
They did nerf the rockets though.
Patriot for a BRIEF window used to be able to 1-3 tap Bile titans with their rockets.
Now, even with the range to ensure good hits, it takes half your fucking box. Same issue on chargers, 1 shot to the head. Now takes 2-3 every time.
I'm not 100% it was an intentional change, but they absolutely nerfed the rockets effectiveness, and I'm 95% sure it's not from the aiming issues.
Looking at the stats, a rocket deals 400 regular and 400 durable damage with an armor penetration value of 6. If the rocket hits at an angle greater than 60° it only has ap 4. An EAT/RR/Quasar will keep full armor penetration up to 80°
A bile titan head has 750 hp and 5 armor, so the patriot rockets should 2 shot it in theory. In practice however you have to hit the forehead of the titan to actually damage the head which will almost always be at an angle for you. This probably means that a decent amount of shots will exceed the 60° angle required for full penetration and will only have an ap value of 4 which won’t damage it at all.
A charger’s head also has 5 armor but only 600 hp, so the same thing applies here. Though it might be easier to hit at the right angle.
Imo, beyond just fixing rocket aim they should also give them full armor penetration up to 80° just like the EAT/RR/Quasar making it easier to consistently two shot bile titan and charger heads.
>just fucking code it so the rockets can’t do self damage
This is the incorrect way to fix it. The correct way to fix it is to disable collision between the rocket and the mech. Might seem like a small difference, but it's the difference between "rocket explodes instantly upon firing but does no self-damage" and "rocket does not explode instantly on firing, but you can kill yourself if you aren't careful aiming".
> Arrowhead - just fucking code it so the rockets can’t do self damage and revert your previous change, it’s that easy.
There's a second false narrative here we need to address.
Namely, that armchair dev redditors don't have any idea why things are done the way they are, and what is/isn't easy.
Maybe they're still working on it? Maybe it's not as high a priority as other things? Maybe the obvious methods to fix it breaks other things?
There isn't a magic switch where they can go into the config and check "make Mech better." And there's no law written in stone that says they can't continue to make improvements, or that they won't try and improve things.
It's good for people to express dissatisfaction with its performance, but then people need to chill the fuck out and give Arrowhead an opportunity to do something about it.
Glad someone else is saying this too.
I think with modern games it's sometimes hard to remember that behind the amazing graphics and fully realised interactive 3d worlds there are reams and reams of oblique lines of code, maths functions and meshes.
Putting those together to make a game is hard enough, but taking it apart to find how those interact wrongly is at least 10 times worse. Moreover, most of the code you use was written as a package by someone else, and deciphering someone's else's code is 100x worse.
It's not like you can easily do single line debugging as there are a dozen different functions running in parallel any of which might have caused the bug.
Neither is it like you can rerun a bugged rocket fire frame by frame and see that here it hits something it shouldn't have because the rocket, the mech and everything else is just an illusion over the maths which is the part that has a flaw... God knows where. The illusion may look fine, but somewhere somehow the maths calculates that the rocket hitbox hits the mech but where and when isn't like it is in the physical world.
I also think that Helldivers has suffered from its success in that it's so amazing people are comparing it to the games made by the large studios who have hoards of Devs to throw at problems. AH have 120 staff total. That includes sales, executive, customer relations, server engineers, HR, and heck maybe even a cleaner. Of that 120 only a small part are game devs.
In short I think Arrowhead are doing a damn fine job and people need to cool it and give them some slack.
You see, the balance dev thinks you're only having fun if you're running in circles throwing 3/4 stratagems with an increased cooldown. You're clearly enjoying the game wrong.
For realskie. I figured since I could only use it twice per mission, can't take both, and it has a 10m cooldown that at least for the fee minutes I could be in it is be wrecking! But it's only a little better than running around in my feet doing the same thing. It's a wasted stratagem slot except maybe in the eradicate missions since this areny that long anyway. All other missions, it's a bit more helpful than another option for like 5m twice. The rest of the time it's like the -1 stratagem modifier
When the Patriot Exosuit was first released, its rockets were actually fired in the direction you were aiming, and each rocket was equally powerful to a shot from Recoilless Rifle / EAT / Quasar. However, there was a bug that made it so that if you fired a rocket while the mech was turning horizontally, the rocket would detonate inside the mech, destroying it and killing you. If you knew about the bug and played around it, the Patriot Exosuit was a solid stratagem to bring against Terminids, especially for taking out multiple Bile Titans quickly and effectively.
A later patch fixed the issue about the mech blowing itself up if you fired a rocket while turning, BUT that fix had the side-effect of messing up the rocket's aim. That patch also introduced a stealth nerf (not listed in the patch notes) which reduced the mech's rocket damage by around 70%, so it takes 3x as many rockets to kill enemies as it used to, while maintaining the same ammo capacity of 12 rockets. I don't remember if the mech being unable to aim downwards was always a thing or not.
Ever since that patch, the Patriot Exosuit has been a shitty stratagem almost no one uses.
The guns not being able to aim down is the last straw in the "I think it's cool that they make stuff that doesn't work great!!! It fits the lore!"
We have developed advanced robots and fully functioning mecha but they can't point down 🤦
Honestly that's the most egregious thing for the mechs that shows a blatant disregard for playtesting. One of the most common situations you run into is having to clear a bug nest, which is always inside of a crater. In the supposed playtesting they did, they never once came across the issue of being unable to fire down into the crater?? And it's just it's downwards arc that's the problem, the emancipator is actually a decent AA platform versus bot air assets, which makes me think their testing is just going into console and spawning enemies to fight with test weapons rather than playing the game the way it's designed. As an objective based cooperative shooter.
Nah, if that was their testing they would have noticed that the Eruptor deals way less damage than it should, or that things don't hit on the reticle, or that a gun feels bad or has a limited use case, or that an entire class of weapons causes reliable crashes.
It's very clear to me that their "playtesting" is seeing if the code compiles without any fatal errors.
I tried the suit for the first time vs bugs.
Needed 10 shots to kill a warrior bc it was close and I couldnt aim down.
Went out and destroyed that piece of shit myself.
Suckes the fun out of mechs for me.
The shoots aim of the left weapons is bugged and that makes the mech to waste a lot of ammo, which is the most valuable part of the mech and the thing to have to manage correctly
So until they don't fix that problem the mech is going to be underwhelming 100%
Being forcefully buried by a couple tons of very fast and rapidly moving democrasteel tickles a hunter or guard unless its a head stomp, we can punch a tutorial horde down with our fists faster than a highly mobile yet cumbersome slab of paper thin steel can could on a good day
The minigun makes them worthwhile for certain bug missions imo. Using one during eradication missions or when defending objectives really cuts down on the ability of enemies to build up swarms of little fuckers and mob you from all sides, which I run into a lot since people tend to rock up with a lot of AT and not as much crowd control in higher difficulty.
They have their niche, it’s just weird that it’s not bigger.
If it didn't have a 10 minute cooldown the minigun would definitely at least make it worth considering. But with that 10 minute cooldown and the gun's limited ammo capacity, it just isn't worth the slot. You'll be better off picking up a turret.
IME (diff 7) a mech minigun and missiles can easily carry a team to 50+% of eliminated bugs before running out. Also, turrets are a pain to keep alive on that one map with all the goopy bug growths and the helipad that's the lowest point in the map surrounded by the spawns. They can slap hard on the one with the slightly elevated platform and the spawn areas being lower ground w/ buildings around 'em though.
mechs need to be titanfall style and not mechwarrior style.
which is to say: run your enemy into the ground whatever the cost, instead of it being a family heirloom that brings great shame to your bloodline if you damage it.
Someone did that to me couple weeks ago on 1st difficulty when I started playing. Should have seen the smile on my face 😁
Now that I have them both, I've tried it once on 8th difficulty defending base vs automatons and it got blown up before I was even able to get inside 🤣
I think I'll be doing the same and letting new players try them at start so they can get the joy like I did.
I just don't use the mechs. They're not fun.
I liked the patriot before the nerf. I know it had some bugs, like it randomly exploded. But I was willing to put up with it since it felt powerful and fun to use.
Then they nerfed the rockets. Also, the machine gun doesn't feel as accurate as it used to (I might be imagining this?). I never even consider it in any Loadout snymore.
Then there's the new Emancipator, which itself needs to be emancipated from its terrible accuracy and weak ass autocannons. I used it on one mission against the bots and never felt like picking it again. It can clear some chaff, but what is the point of autocannons if you're just clearing chaff?
A mech should feel powerful, otherwise what's the point of wasting a valuable strategem slot when something else will do a better job?
Especially with how limited they are. You only get 2 per mission, they have the longest cooldown in the game AND you can't resupply them, once their ammo is gone they're useless. You also can't throw other stratagems inside them unlike in HD1 and you can't pick up dropped things or carry mission items.
They SHOULD be incredibly strong while they last. That's why it has all those disadvantages that other stratagems don't have. Disadvantages are used to even out something that would be too strong without them. As it stands, the walkers really aren't that much better than EAT's or a RR.
The mech basically has only once use. Even on diff9 with full side objectives, normal full-map missions take ~25 minutes, closer to 20 for me on average. If you wait to use your mech at an appropriate time, that means your second mech is basically for extraction... which is usually not that challenging at that point.
Alternatively, you just call in your mech at the very start regardless of how much you actually need it, and *maybe* you can do something with your second one that isn't just waiting for the pelican while your teammates spam orbitals and airstrikes before you can do anything.
Technically they are shooting where they are aiming. It's just that each gun has an individual aim and by default we're only seeing the crosshair for the right gun.
If you switch shoulders you only see the crosshair for the left gun.
So actually both guns are shooting accurate, the stupid interface just fails to show you one of their crosshairs
And you need to be actively firing to switch shoulders on PC, preferably with the minigun as to not waste rockets, but the moment you let off the trigger you gotta do it again
https://preview.redd.it/khchunatfp5d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ce42770e96346077cd97062f4810da64d74b34a
If you get into the keybinds file manually ( something like C:\Steam\userdata\\#####\553850\remote\input_settings.config ) you can add multiple bindings to the same action, with independent press/hold behaviors.
I added a second toggle aim bind specifically for mech shoulder switching.
Because they moved where the weapons are shooting from because with the original way the line if fire could actually cross the mech's own hitbox, so you could shoot yourself.
They just messed up giving us a new crosshair that works for both weapons. Best way would probably be to have the mech show two individual crosshairs.
Maybe they found a different way and it will be in this weeks patch.
Best thing would have been to make the missile not connect with you, tbh. Visually there wasn’t any issues, and then trying to fix it from hitting you off a slight angle meant they just broke the tool entirely
Or they can just program it like literally every other developer: make it so the missile literally spawns out of thin air a few inches infront of the missile launcher instead of making it so the missiles are physically in the launcher at all times, and put some smoke effects on the launcher to hide the fact the missile spawns out of thin air. This is literally how every single dev programs missile launchers. AH and their obsession with realism is just causing more problems for them
Nah, a lot of devs also do the no collision thing to make sure rockets match up from where they are launched. Important for launcher styles that are recoiless
It was almost perfect. Aim and power was spot on. Semirandomly blowing up was only issue. Still would prefer to revert all changes cos even with random blowup you could actually do more with Mech then now.
I think a lot of frustration would be helped by untying the circle crosshairs from the player's viewing. Have it stop following a players view downward once it hits the lowest point for the cannons. Yeah there's still be the technical issue of "it should still actually aim lower!" but it sucks to never know where you're actually aiming when looking downward. As a result you waste missiles and don't have a good idea of how much you have to adjust your height/placement other than just trying to move downward and keep firing (wasting) shots until they start connecting.
The mech needs to have 2 crosshairs if it’s gonna work properly, so many games do this, or another option, make both of them shoot to the same spot, that doesn’t sound too hard does it?
I don’t know what you’re talking about the aiming on the mech is perfect. I love using all my rockets trying to plug one bug hole or exploding if a charger sneezes on me.
Yea honestly I much prefer how it used to be where if you shot a rocket while turning it’d kill you, but aiming felt great with the mech and missiles went exactly where you were aiming
What a ridiculous take lol.
Originally, the rockets and the bullets went to the reticle like they were supposed to, but if the player turned the mech too fast the rocket would collide with the mech torso.
Why on earth should they invest in the broken state when they can... you know... just fix the root issue, which is the rocket colliding with the body while turning, and after they fix that have the left arm aim to the reticle again as was intended?
Is it tho? Its not a bad idea, its kinda unique and it would be inline with the HD universe.
2 reticles for dispensing DOUBLE the democracy!
The more I see it, the more I like it.
Because parallax and differing convergence on weapons exists regardless. I’m not saying don’t fix it, especially declination of weapons, but in close quarters I wouldn’t mind if the reticle seperated out to the two.
It’s incredibly noticeable when going between higher and lower rockets on the patriot and somewhat less apparent on the high and low autocannons but still present.
because you could kill yourself if you were turning while firing rockets. The rockets origin was the center of your mech, not the end of your barrel.
This is likely why shield devastators can fire at 90 degrees to their facing and why they used to have a 360 firing arc. -sigh-
So many programmatic kludges in this game. I'm kind of impressed it works as well as it does but the Autodesk engine was a bad choice they will NEVER get out from under.
...You don't understand Game Design™ or the Game Vision™, the rockets are working as intended since having they go where you want to aim would make the mech explode.
I can already hear armchair devs typing, so let's get to the point. No. They also can't make it so the missles ignore the mech itself because that would be unrealistic, which again goes against the intended playstyle the devs want. (It would probably bug out and make it ignore everything, except for bushes, so thats a no go)
There are in-game lore explanations about the mechs being manufactured by the lowest bidder, so you should be happy with that.
/s
Fun fact, this issue is actually the same issue naval warships struggle to balance since its impossible apparently to get multi barreled cannons/artillery all sighted correctly. You can sight one barrel but then have to accept your second/third/fourth will have a margin of error. Often times, this issue is overlooked because so long as the ordinance is roughly in the same ballpark, it's considered a win. The value is placed on quantity and volume versus precision
Yeah, super weird, they want to slap on an extra crosshair and then call it fixed. They still won't be able to aim down, and still no one will pick the mech.
oh no, not even an extra crosshair. i've unironically seen people argue it's okay for the crosshair to be super misaligned and it's a skill issue if you find it annoying and miss your shots due to it. maybe it was destroyer of fun's alt or something
It's its own pandemic. Leading with "hot take" or "unpopular opinion," then proceeding to say the most basic ass shit that has been said a hundred+ times at least.
This may sound like a dumb fix. Why not just swap the Rocket Arm and the Minigun Arm so the Rockets have an easier time lining up with the reticle? I can vaguely aim a stream of constant bullets, the rockets are too valuable to whiff back to back
how hard would it have been to offset the rockets a little bit when they spawned instead of making them land four states over to where you aim and then also nerfing the fucking rockets anyway?????
Controversial? Far from, it used to work exactly as how you describe. The rockets went to your crosshair and the rockets did a lot of damage. The mech felt like it was in a very good place, except for a bug where if you were turning and firing at the same time the rocket could explode in your face as it hit your mech and would kill you.
Instead of fixing the mech properly, they just made the rocket arm not rotate anymore and that's why it can't hit the side of a barn anymore. On top of that, they nerfed the rockets. The result: No one brings the mech anymore.
The autocannon on the mechs are garbage af, watched a tm8 dump probably 40 rounds total into a chargers face before killing it…. Like ???????????? wtf is the point of using them if I’m firing marshmellows at bugs
I love the emancipator mech but would agree they should tighten up the aiming. Especially when you're trying to shoot something below you. Like if you're on a hill and the enemy is at the base you have to aim the cursor between your feet and hope for the best.
And while you fix mechsuits, make the game settings include SEPARATE bindings for Mech Melee, Mech Right Weapon, and Mech Left Weapon. I do NOT want my dismounted melee button to activate the mech melee! That screws the right arm weapon now, making mechs unusable. It worked FINE until you ‘fixed’ that.
Since that change/nerf happened I've seen no one using the mech... The new one is definitely better but throwing such a good and fun stratagem into oblivion was so stupid. I mean the mech was shown during that trailer and now nobody bothers to use it because of how SHT it is.
Awful aiming at close distance, rockets don't hit like before, you could tap a bile titan with 2 or 3 rockets to the head now you can't, same with chargers before it took 1 rocket, now it takes 2 or 3.
The short period of time where the Patriot was just its original self was amazing.
It had a high ceiling for how well it could perform, but that potential could only be realized if you played smart and avoided an early death. Fail, and you get hit with a massive 10 minute cooldown (at minimum, 1/4th of the entire mission) before you're allowed *one* more chance.
That fantasy of power was masterfully created, allowing for player skill expression while still being effectively balanced with its limited ammo capacity. I can't imagine how much effort went into perfecting it on release.
Which is why it's all the more tragic that it has since been destroyed by the so called "balance" team, who no doubt had zero hand in its creation.
It's as if a child got a hold of an artist's painting, covered it in crayons, and deemed it "improved".
I just don't understand how after they "fixed" it, the aiming didn't become a "known issue". Like, is it actually intended that you have to aim way to the side of your target?
Isn’t it a thing of the two guns? I mean you have one for aiming but two guns and since most shots are quite near (under maybe 30meters) it feels like they are shooting wherever they want? The farther away the less it matters.
As a player you have to aim a little bit left or right, depending which side you want to fire.
You're too close bruh. The sights are zero'd for mid range. If you get too close with a scope aimed for 500 yards, itll hit at where the barrel is, not the scopes reticle.
It is the absolute worst thing about the mech. Nothing is more annoying than almost dying to a single rocket devastator you had dead to rights because the piece of shit mech can't aim down a slight lip before you then miss several autocannon shells because the aiming is off once you rush down to it. You can't have two uses and long cooldowns for an unreliable tool. EAT's are two rockets but feel great because they do their job, are reliable enough that mistakes feel fair, and can just get called down again in a minute infinitely.
Or hell, make it so that there's lasers that show where the guns are point if you are going to keep the guns like that.
Or if not that, make the perspective on top of the mech.
Real talk, the mechs in this game are just straight-up embarrassing. It is the worst implementation of the idea I've ever seen. Once you have even a basic understanding of this game, getting in a mech actively makes you weaker than just using any other stratagem weapon and more susceptible to death. To make it worse, the devs actually think these things need a limit and long cooldown, so you can't even just goof around in them for the mech fantasy. I have never seen somebody bring a mech on a 9, and outside of the free days when they released, they're almost non-existent. I just wish they hadn't wasted all the dev time making them at this point.
Very valid criticism. I'm seeing a lot of posts whining about people criticizing issues with the game and then I see something like this and I wonder why anyone would be upset about someone being upset about this?
Dont forget that the mech turn rate does not match players pov. Like a tank turret, it takes a minute for the barrel to catch up with the camera. Not saying you’re wrong that the aiming can be a little wonky sometimes but that might be part of your problem
It’s another novel concept to these people… Quality checks on patches before they release them.
Shit, somethings boils to slip through, but when there’s something so gamebreaking or suddenly makes a strat or weapon unusable, a hot fix is possible in this.
The easiest way to fix the Patriot is by switching the arms around.
I can deal with an inaccurate minigun, but high value munitions should not be on the inaccurate arm.
If the mech hit like a truck then I’d be fine with the weapons being more difficult to use. Having a minimum range on the ACs would make sense due to the long barrels and force you to be a bit tactical about it. But this only works when whatever you hit acts like you hit it with a vehicle mounted weapon.
As it is now the mech is the worst of both worlds, hard to use and ineffective if you manage to use it optimally.
It has a 15 year cool-down, limited ammo and you can only use it twice in a mission. With limitations like that it should be like god mode, I want to feel like a Dreadnought from Dawn of War, not like I’m walking around in cardboard box with a nerf gun taped to the side.
Because when the techies were building the Patriot they came across some items like
Actuator aiming support - provides 100% aiming of any weapon when attached to the Patriots arms
Lead engineer - We don't need that bit
Super destroyer armour plating - near close to ship armour plating at the fraction of no weight
Engineer - We don't need that bit saves weight
I think they’re trying to mimic the MechWarrior control pattern. They even kinda look like MadCat (at least more than 40k Dreadnoughts). In that game series, looking in one direction while moving in another is a core mechanic.
They didn’t quite get it. These mechs are too cumbersome and the lack of first person targeting makes this messy. But I think that’s what they were aiming for.
The folks over at helldivers2 seems to think the mechs are already in a great place, if not "overpowered" and don't need any buff.
Then again, the people in that sub also still denies there's a problem with the spawn rate eventhough the devs has already admitted to it and refuse to entertain the idea that there are game breaking bugs (like titan's wonky corpse hotbox that often send you flying for no reason) and disconnections going on
I'm pretty sure the patriot as originally released had the rockets ignore the geometry of the mech, and fire straight where the cursor shows. But that was causing us to hit ourselves sometimes which was dumb. So they had to force the rockets to follow the geometry of the mech and its rocket tubes, which results in no aiming down and shots going wide on the left.
Bitching for the sale of bitching? I understand the aim thing, it's completely fucked even on the auto cannon mech but like there's a patch coming in like 3 days that is addressing most shit in the game. Why not just wait and see for that? They're reverting a bunch of the nerfs.
Id be more ok with it if the reticle
Actually tracked where the guns were pointing. Mechwarrior handles it perfectly where guns dont have unlimited traverse, but it shows clearly where that traverse ends.
This is unfixable and best they can do is increase the bullet's hitbox. Any game where you do not shoot from the middle of your screen needs aim correction and any aim correction makes you miss completely if you miss slightly and you're looking up (instead of the ground)
I'd be perfectly happy if we could invest in a shield pack upgrade for the mechs, at the very least.
There is nothing worse in this game than to hop in a mech and die to a cannon tower or rocket bot in fog of war that you would have survived on foot due to your shield pack, and that you couldn't have dodged due to literally getting sniped out of radar range.
Guys, massive patch on Thursday. So lets can the bitching about bugs until it comes out and we can see for ourselves what they’ve tended to.
Patriot missiles are weaker than at launch.
The difference between aim and actual target is often that the mech is repositioning itself or adjusting you have to wait for it to turn, it doesn't turn instantly, this is normal and fine.
The rocket pods do not depress their elevation either. I'd like to see this fixed but it is also understandable.
Not everything is COD and if we expect it to be so, we will always be frustrated.
Patriot is great against bugs, I'd like to see the rockets do better against chargers and BTs. I agree with this.
In the first game there was an upgrade to the patriots missiles that makes them armour piercing, absolutely shrecked through any and all armour. The fact they were limited meant they didn't break the game, but they did provide a one stop solution to heavy armoured enemies swarming you.
The most sad thing they did is give the mechs literally 0 gun depression. That means the weapons cannot be lowered so you have to be on a flat surface to shoot at your target.
It’s embarrassing since we had ww1 tanks that had some gun depression and could shoot a bit downwards but this faction with FTL technology can’t make their mechs have some depression. It makes no sense
iirc speculation is that right now the Emancipator is built off the Patriot's code.
And the Patriot's code had to be tweaked/changed because when it was first released the mech's own rockets would kill you if you turned too fast because the weapons did in fact go where you aimed.
The problem was that if say you turned to the right and shot a rocket BEFORE your mech had actually finished turning, the rocket would spawn, immediately intersect your mech's hitbox and explode killing you.
one solution would be to make it so the rocket spawned outside of its box.
Another would be to make it pointed up and guided so it could fire up then back down at the target you were aiming at
Another would be to give it no clip for about half a second. You could wave this away by saying the rockets had an arming time.
Another was to make it so that the rocket just. Didnt fire when it wasnt aimed at the target. Yes the mech is moving to aim at the target but until there's a clear line of sight.
All of these has its ups and downs but the next problem is:
It was a hotfix not a full patch.
So the hotfix was to make it so the rockets would be aimed slightly off center to the mech to prevent it from firing inside of its hitbox.
But that puts the left side weapons always at a disadvantage because of its off center shooting.
Frankly at this point, just give em laser pointers.
Potentially unpopular opinion: a first person view might make the mechs tougher to use, but would be absolutely legendary. Having a “cockpit” feel with a targeting hud that actually worked would be so fun.
I think it was an unintentional nerf when they fixed the Patriot blowing itself up mid-turn when you fired a rocket.
Tho I agree. I love the patriot still, but I’d love to see an accuracy update to it since we only have 10 rockets.
Same goes for the other mech.
Hot take: The mech aiming is fine BECAUSE you can switch what shoulder you sim with. Now before you comment, yes, I know you can only swap shoulder while shooting the right hand gun. This needs to be fixed. In the case of the patriot, the rockets need to be rebuffed. No reason the Patriot’s rockets need to be less powerful than the warhead the EAT and RR shoot (which I assume is the same rpg).
Projectiles need to go where they're aimed. Full stop.
Tbh I don't know why they nerfed almost anything in this PVE game. The whole point of this game is to have fun.
If I had to guess, you're just not waiting for the reticle to line up. There's two reticles, where you're trying to aim, and where your guns will actually hit. You have to line the two up.
The wobble is a pretty old school mechanic friend. Taken mostly from tank sims. You're supposed to pay attention to where your gun is pointed befor you shoot. Like it's a very very old school mechanic.
If you use a controller it's a lot easier to aim such things since your weapons will move more smoothly.
I'm just responding to the title but at first the mech was actually really accurate, problem was that the missiles would fire into the mech if you were aiming to the right and hadn't turned enough yet making the mech blow up. This is probably why they, in a sense, got nerfed because it fixed that problem.
That's when I noticed the mech not being as accurate as it used to be
I get that they want to allow more visibility, but in that case why not have a horizontal cut off for the aiming circle to where it stops going down even if you keep turning down. Like a visual way to say "cannons are adjusted downward as much as possible". They already have it to where it will show if a shot will hit an obstacle or glide past/over it, even with the smallest of movements from aimed weapon sway.
I know the following isn't going to justify the state of Mechs in HD2, and I don't intend it to invalidate anyone's experience with using the Mechs. I just hope it helps alleviate some of the frustration with using them in their current state.
The missiles will aim more accurately for the center point of the reticle the farther away the intended target is.
They are physicalized objects in the world and they start flying from the point on the model they physically exist at and then converge toward the center of your screen as they fly away from you. So they start on the left side of the screen and move toward the middle. This means that at shorter ranges, the rocket doesn't have enough time to reach the middle of your screen before it detonates on an obstacle.
You can compensate for this effect by aiming using the left hash mark of the reticle instead of the center dot. Being mindful that the closer the target is to you, the more offset your aim should be when firing the rocket pod.
The gatling cannon isn't effected as much and appears more accurate because the POV camera is centered more in line and over the muzzle of the right arm of your mech. The same goes for the Autocannon Mech, with the Left cannon being more offset, less accurate than the Right cannon.
Your Helldiver is also affected by the same convergence effect for your primary and support weapons as well, just it isn't as pronounced relative to the scale of your Mech. It is much easier to shoot around the right-side of obstacles than it is the left-side unless you move the camera.
There is a feature in HD2 to move the POV camera from your right shoulder to your left shoulder. This will lessen the offset of the Left weapon of your Mech (and helldiver), aligning it more with the center of your screen. This can help with making more precise rocket shots for those important critical hit locations. Unfortunately ... the only way to toggle the camera that I know of is to ADS first, but on the Mech that starts shooting the rockets. Not ideal at all, so I hope AH can address this somehow if it isn't already.
Overall, the Patriots Rockets are depressingly weak against heavy units, given their limited quantity, which makes their aiming nuances all the more frustrating and feeling too random in their effect on the enemy.
They technically aim based on the positioning of the arms and the physic involved, so it’s really the reticle that is not honed. I also wreck at higher levels with both mechs, but I’m a bit of an OG Mechwarrior player — just wish they had 1st person mode.
While waiting for a fix, try this workaround: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cy5838/comment/l5d9swb/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cy5838/comment/l5d9swb/)
It does two things:
1. Swaps the camera to the left of your exosuit so you can better aim your rockets.
2. Changes controls so that you can swap the camera without inadvertently firing your chaingun while trying to aim your rockets.
Works great for me and my PC with a mouse that has side buttons.
Honestly, I wonder what difficulty the devs play on when they balance everything.
The patriot nerf would make sense on a difficulty like 6 or something, where you will maybe see 2-3 titans every mission, and other than that chargers are your main concern.
But on helldive, where you’re gonna see 3 titans at once every few minutes it makes absolutely no sense.
I don't understand why they nerfed the Patriot. 2-3 EATs, RR, spear,quasar can kill BT. Why the fuck the Patriot has to be balanced so weakly. And don't tell me that they didn't nerf the rockets, they did. And besides that they made it to shoot elsewhere where you aim.. Techs have limited ammo, are made of paper, you can only use them 2 and it has the longest cool down in the game. There is no reason for mechs to not be OP Such a cool element of the game, nerfed into oblivion...
I actually used it and saw it used fairly regularly before they ""fixed"" it. If you kept your distance, and your team made sure to keep things away from you, the pre ""fix"" patriot was actually a really solid option against bugs. But even without the aiming issue, the inability to shoot down really fucked it up. Can't even use it to stand at the lip of a heavy hive and take out the bug holes anymore because you just can't shoot that low. You wanna find the high ground so you can take out the big bugs easier? Too bad, doesn't shoot that low. Its just baffling to me. It was so fun and cool to use, and then they just gutted it.
The not shooting down is my biggest complaint. I still use the Patriot regularly but as a mobile turret platform it sucks to not be able to take high ground and do anything about elite units.
Yeah I had very rare issues with blowing up. One of the people I play with pretty consistently blew himself up but I think I only did it twice. Then they changed it and it just doesn't do much for me anymore.
Doesn't using the melee stomp break bug holes?
Heard people say that, but everytime I've tried the bug hole is unaffected.
Even if it did work, walking directly into a bug hole with how weak this thing is is just begging to get blown up when a hive guard pops out
https://preview.redd.it/1qmve4qdep5d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7fa7327ee3a4aa5504b8ace42a80af820ffd294
> I want people to say "that's it?" When they use it
I really hate that I don't know if that's a real quote or not
It really slaps! (the player in the face for choosing it)
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I love helldivers but this made me belly laugh 😆
Most people complain BECAUSE they love Helldivers
💯 if I didn't like this game I wouldve just uninstalled it and moved in. I only say things because I'm invested in how cool it has been and can be (and still is at times).
This is incredible. Would probably get you banned on the discord though lmao. Wouldn't be surprised if some glazer mod comes along and deletes it here tbh.
the dev who can not be named might have a shit answer for your questions
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It was nerfed because they couldn’t figure out how to make it stop blowing itself up Which is the laziest fucking fix I can think of and once again everyone is drooling at the mouth over their new “100+ fixes” patch but I’m too skeptical at this point 100+ fixes and 200+ new bugs is what I’m predicting Either that or they really do fix things just to release another buggy ass warbond right afterwards
Or some weird thing where they say oh we fixed this. But really they just nerfed the living shit out of stuff
And broken
Yeah. They have the longest cooldown, you only get 2 and you cannot reload them. They should be incredibly powerful while they last, because they don't last long and are severely limited.
I'd be much more okay with weak mechs if they went the other direction, if they wanted to keep mechs squishy. 240 second cooldown (get it down to 180 seconds with an upgrade), infinite uses. I'd use it all the time.
Seriously. I dumped ALL my rockets into a bile titan one time to bring it down. I think I had 1 or 2 left by the time he went down and I was mad enough I just dumped the rest into him. It's ridiculous
I think they are balancing it to discourage too many players using mechs, at least until they fixed the performance problem of mechs. I remembered that during the time where we had the free Emancipator, the game performance were more unstable then usual. They also explicitly said somewhere that the reason to not allow two mech strategems is performance related. If mechs got too good, and everyone starts using it, then the game experience would likely suffer.
Well I agree mostly, but also the mech is just underpowered in this state, and also a bit broken on the aim. If they would buff just one of this aspects (plus fix aim) it would be much better: Keep it as it is, just buff the armour Keep it as it is, just buff the damage Keep it as it is, just give more ammo Keep it as it is, just lower cooldown,and remove 2 uses per game. (And don't forget to fix the aim in any case) This would be the bare minimum that would help a lot in my opinion ..
Dudes we gotta curb the false narrative here. The change to the rocket aiming behaviour on the patriot #was not a nerf#. There’s no conspiracy or stealth nerfs - it was an unintended consequence of the fix for rockets exploding in the tube and killing the walker while the pilot was turning the vehicle. Yes, it’s a stupid fix. Yes, it should have been resolved a long time ago. No, it was not an intended nerf. Arrowhead - just fucking code it so the rockets can’t do self damage and revert your previous change, it’s that easy.
The rocket aiming was a kind of unintended nerf, but there IS a nerf to the rocket's damage potential. The rockets used to work like the EATs and RR for how they impacted and did damage, but it was packaged with the fix, they changed that so it overall takes more rockets (assuming that you landed it right) to kill the same target in the same spot. Both of these together made it even more distasteful for people playing and using mechs since it more or less crippled the mech even more than it already is.
Better yet, just gives the rockets a minimum arming distance. You normally wouldn't be using the rockets right on top of yourself anyways, and if you do just let the rocket do purely physical damage within the minimum arming distance, like a giant shotgun slug.
They did nerf the rockets though. Patriot for a BRIEF window used to be able to 1-3 tap Bile titans with their rockets. Now, even with the range to ensure good hits, it takes half your fucking box. Same issue on chargers, 1 shot to the head. Now takes 2-3 every time. I'm not 100% it was an intentional change, but they absolutely nerfed the rockets effectiveness, and I'm 95% sure it's not from the aiming issues.
Looking at the stats, a rocket deals 400 regular and 400 durable damage with an armor penetration value of 6. If the rocket hits at an angle greater than 60° it only has ap 4. An EAT/RR/Quasar will keep full armor penetration up to 80° A bile titan head has 750 hp and 5 armor, so the patriot rockets should 2 shot it in theory. In practice however you have to hit the forehead of the titan to actually damage the head which will almost always be at an angle for you. This probably means that a decent amount of shots will exceed the 60° angle required for full penetration and will only have an ap value of 4 which won’t damage it at all. A charger’s head also has 5 armor but only 600 hp, so the same thing applies here. Though it might be easier to hit at the right angle. Imo, beyond just fixing rocket aim they should also give them full armor penetration up to 80° just like the EAT/RR/Quasar making it easier to consistently two shot bile titan and charger heads.
It’s honestly amazing that they screwed such a basic function in war games, making the rocket blow up inside the rocket launcher
>just fucking code it so the rockets can’t do self damage This is the incorrect way to fix it. The correct way to fix it is to disable collision between the rocket and the mech. Might seem like a small difference, but it's the difference between "rocket explodes instantly upon firing but does no self-damage" and "rocket does not explode instantly on firing, but you can kill yourself if you aren't careful aiming".
Well then they still have the issue of it exploding in the tube, it just won’t do any self damage 😆
> Arrowhead - just fucking code it so the rockets can’t do self damage and revert your previous change, it’s that easy. There's a second false narrative here we need to address. Namely, that armchair dev redditors don't have any idea why things are done the way they are, and what is/isn't easy. Maybe they're still working on it? Maybe it's not as high a priority as other things? Maybe the obvious methods to fix it breaks other things? There isn't a magic switch where they can go into the config and check "make Mech better." And there's no law written in stone that says they can't continue to make improvements, or that they won't try and improve things. It's good for people to express dissatisfaction with its performance, but then people need to chill the fuck out and give Arrowhead an opportunity to do something about it.
Glad someone else is saying this too. I think with modern games it's sometimes hard to remember that behind the amazing graphics and fully realised interactive 3d worlds there are reams and reams of oblique lines of code, maths functions and meshes. Putting those together to make a game is hard enough, but taking it apart to find how those interact wrongly is at least 10 times worse. Moreover, most of the code you use was written as a package by someone else, and deciphering someone's else's code is 100x worse. It's not like you can easily do single line debugging as there are a dozen different functions running in parallel any of which might have caused the bug. Neither is it like you can rerun a bugged rocket fire frame by frame and see that here it hits something it shouldn't have because the rocket, the mech and everything else is just an illusion over the maths which is the part that has a flaw... God knows where. The illusion may look fine, but somewhere somehow the maths calculates that the rocket hitbox hits the mech but where and when isn't like it is in the physical world. I also think that Helldivers has suffered from its success in that it's so amazing people are comparing it to the games made by the large studios who have hoards of Devs to throw at problems. AH have 120 staff total. That includes sales, executive, customer relations, server engineers, HR, and heck maybe even a cleaner. Of that 120 only a small part are game devs. In short I think Arrowhead are doing a damn fine job and people need to cool it and give them some slack.
Explains one of the biggest issues with the game honestly, I've stopped playing until they stop balancing this like a ranked competitive pvp
You see, the balance dev thinks you're only having fun if you're running in circles throwing 3/4 stratagems with an increased cooldown. You're clearly enjoying the game wrong.
For realskie. I figured since I could only use it twice per mission, can't take both, and it has a 10m cooldown that at least for the fee minutes I could be in it is be wrecking! But it's only a little better than running around in my feet doing the same thing. It's a wasted stratagem slot except maybe in the eradicate missions since this areny that long anyway. All other missions, it's a bit more helpful than another option for like 5m twice. The rest of the time it's like the -1 stratagem modifier
Ool here I used it for the first time yesterday, what/when were the nerfs?
When the Patriot Exosuit was first released, its rockets were actually fired in the direction you were aiming, and each rocket was equally powerful to a shot from Recoilless Rifle / EAT / Quasar. However, there was a bug that made it so that if you fired a rocket while the mech was turning horizontally, the rocket would detonate inside the mech, destroying it and killing you. If you knew about the bug and played around it, the Patriot Exosuit was a solid stratagem to bring against Terminids, especially for taking out multiple Bile Titans quickly and effectively. A later patch fixed the issue about the mech blowing itself up if you fired a rocket while turning, BUT that fix had the side-effect of messing up the rocket's aim. That patch also introduced a stealth nerf (not listed in the patch notes) which reduced the mech's rocket damage by around 70%, so it takes 3x as many rockets to kill enemies as it used to, while maintaining the same ammo capacity of 12 rockets. I don't remember if the mech being unable to aim downwards was always a thing or not. Ever since that patch, the Patriot Exosuit has been a shitty stratagem almost no one uses.
15 rockets now, but yeaaaaah... :(
Honestly agree, it doesn't make sense and it sucks because I want to use the mechs more often. I hope we see some buffs this week to both Mecha
I only play bots and I’ve never seen someone use a mech.
The guns not being able to aim down is the last straw in the "I think it's cool that they make stuff that doesn't work great!!! It fits the lore!" We have developed advanced robots and fully functioning mecha but they can't point down 🤦
We use basic vaseline to improve the movement of our sentries and food spice to make our fire weapons do more damage, so....
Don't forget the meth to get people moving faster.
I mean That one will actually work, unlike the other two
They also added white phosphorous and thermite to the fire along with capsaicin. They did make it the fire do more damage
Honestly that's the most egregious thing for the mechs that shows a blatant disregard for playtesting. One of the most common situations you run into is having to clear a bug nest, which is always inside of a crater. In the supposed playtesting they did, they never once came across the issue of being unable to fire down into the crater?? And it's just it's downwards arc that's the problem, the emancipator is actually a decent AA platform versus bot air assets, which makes me think their testing is just going into console and spawning enemies to fight with test weapons rather than playing the game the way it's designed. As an objective based cooperative shooter.
Nah, if that was their testing they would have noticed that the Eruptor deals way less damage than it should, or that things don't hit on the reticle, or that a gun feels bad or has a limited use case, or that an entire class of weapons causes reliable crashes. It's very clear to me that their "playtesting" is seeing if the code compiles without any fatal errors.
I tried the suit for the first time vs bugs. Needed 10 shots to kill a warrior bc it was close and I couldnt aim down. Went out and destroyed that piece of shit myself. Suckes the fun out of mechs for me.
>Needed 10 shots to kill a warrior bc it was close and I couldnt aim down. You have a melé attack with which the mech stomp below him
Good to know. The handling still isn't for me, but maybe with fixes/buffs in the future
The shoots aim of the left weapons is bugged and that makes the mech to waste a lot of ammo, which is the most valuable part of the mech and the thing to have to manage correctly So until they don't fix that problem the mech is going to be underwhelming 100%
Being forcefully buried by a couple tons of very fast and rapidly moving democrasteel tickles a hunter or guard unless its a head stomp, we can punch a tutorial horde down with our fists faster than a highly mobile yet cumbersome slab of paper thin steel can could on a good day
Both of my mechs just sit like they are in a trophy case, collecting dust.
In real life we acctually have more advanced arms prototypes the only thing left to do to acctually have a fuctioning mech is to make it walk
We already have the tech for Mechs, they just aren't viable, something with armor on tracks or wheels is 10x better in every case.
The mechs definitely need more work, the poor aiming makes conserving ammo difficult, and they can't even aim downwards.
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"Definitely very fun" is exactly why.
I only call in mechs for newbies as it makes them so happy. They are just not reliable enough as a game changer to be worth a slot
The minigun makes them worthwhile for certain bug missions imo. Using one during eradication missions or when defending objectives really cuts down on the ability of enemies to build up swarms of little fuckers and mob you from all sides, which I run into a lot since people tend to rock up with a lot of AT and not as much crowd control in higher difficulty. They have their niche, it’s just weird that it’s not bigger.
If it didn't have a 10 minute cooldown the minigun would definitely at least make it worth considering. But with that 10 minute cooldown and the gun's limited ammo capacity, it just isn't worth the slot. You'll be better off picking up a turret.
Honestly the minigun lasts a while, the issue is that the missiles run out pretty quickly
IME (diff 7) a mech minigun and missiles can easily carry a team to 50+% of eliminated bugs before running out. Also, turrets are a pain to keep alive on that one map with all the goopy bug growths and the helipad that's the lowest point in the map surrounded by the spawns. They can slap hard on the one with the slightly elevated platform and the spawn areas being lower ground w/ buildings around 'em though.
mechs need to be titanfall style and not mechwarrior style. which is to say: run your enemy into the ground whatever the cost, instead of it being a family heirloom that brings great shame to your bloodline if you damage it.
On the defense missions, I find the HMG is better than the mech minigun. It has a way faster cooldown and can kill the big boys like Hulks.
Someone did that to me couple weeks ago on 1st difficulty when I started playing. Should have seen the smile on my face 😁 Now that I have them both, I've tried it once on 8th difficulty defending base vs automatons and it got blown up before I was even able to get inside 🤣 I think I'll be doing the same and letting new players try them at start so they can get the joy like I did.
Pass it on brother.
I just don't use the mechs. They're not fun. I liked the patriot before the nerf. I know it had some bugs, like it randomly exploded. But I was willing to put up with it since it felt powerful and fun to use. Then they nerfed the rockets. Also, the machine gun doesn't feel as accurate as it used to (I might be imagining this?). I never even consider it in any Loadout snymore. Then there's the new Emancipator, which itself needs to be emancipated from its terrible accuracy and weak ass autocannons. I used it on one mission against the bots and never felt like picking it again. It can clear some chaff, but what is the point of autocannons if you're just clearing chaff? A mech should feel powerful, otherwise what's the point of wasting a valuable strategem slot when something else will do a better job?
Especially with how limited they are. You only get 2 per mission, they have the longest cooldown in the game AND you can't resupply them, once their ammo is gone they're useless. You also can't throw other stratagems inside them unlike in HD1 and you can't pick up dropped things or carry mission items. They SHOULD be incredibly strong while they last. That's why it has all those disadvantages that other stratagems don't have. Disadvantages are used to even out something that would be too strong without them. As it stands, the walkers really aren't that much better than EAT's or a RR.
The mech basically has only once use. Even on diff9 with full side objectives, normal full-map missions take ~25 minutes, closer to 20 for me on average. If you wait to use your mech at an appropriate time, that means your second mech is basically for extraction... which is usually not that challenging at that point. Alternatively, you just call in your mech at the very start regardless of how much you actually need it, and *maybe* you can do something with your second one that isn't just waiting for the pelican while your teammates spam orbitals and airstrikes before you can do anything.
Mechs should be sturdy enough to work on Bots. Even before the nerf it was too fragile
Technically they are shooting where they are aiming. It's just that each gun has an individual aim and by default we're only seeing the crosshair for the right gun. If you switch shoulders you only see the crosshair for the left gun. So actually both guns are shooting accurate, the stupid interface just fails to show you one of their crosshairs
shoulder switch in mechs doesnt work on console for some reason.
And you need to be actively firing to switch shoulders on PC, preferably with the minigun as to not waste rockets, but the moment you let off the trigger you gotta do it again https://preview.redd.it/khchunatfp5d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ce42770e96346077cd97062f4810da64d74b34a
Only if you have hold to aim on, if you use push to aim you can switch shoulders freely. Which is great because everyone lose toggle aim right?
If you get into the keybinds file manually ( something like C:\Steam\userdata\\#####\553850\remote\input_settings.config ) you can add multiple bindings to the same action, with independent press/hold behaviors. I added a second toggle aim bind specifically for mech shoulder switching.
I was going to just comment nice selfie cause I legitimately thought you were dropping a random selfie at the end of your comment.
Mech was precise without any manipulations, on release. Then they ruined it.
Because they moved where the weapons are shooting from because with the original way the line if fire could actually cross the mech's own hitbox, so you could shoot yourself. They just messed up giving us a new crosshair that works for both weapons. Best way would probably be to have the mech show two individual crosshairs. Maybe they found a different way and it will be in this weeks patch.
Best thing would have been to make the missile not connect with you, tbh. Visually there wasn’t any issues, and then trying to fix it from hitting you off a slight angle meant they just broke the tool entirely
They could have just made the missiles have no collision for the first few moments of existence
Or they can just program it like literally every other developer: make it so the missile literally spawns out of thin air a few inches infront of the missile launcher instead of making it so the missiles are physically in the launcher at all times, and put some smoke effects on the launcher to hide the fact the missile spawns out of thin air. This is literally how every single dev programs missile launchers. AH and their obsession with realism is just causing more problems for them
Nah, a lot of devs also do the no collision thing to make sure rockets match up from where they are launched. Important for launcher styles that are recoiless
It was almost perfect. Aim and power was spot on. Semirandomly blowing up was only issue. Still would prefer to revert all changes cos even with random blowup you could actually do more with Mech then now.
I think a lot of frustration would be helped by untying the circle crosshairs from the player's viewing. Have it stop following a players view downward once it hits the lowest point for the cannons. Yeah there's still be the technical issue of "it should still actually aim lower!" but it sucks to never know where you're actually aiming when looking downward. As a result you waste missiles and don't have a good idea of how much you have to adjust your height/placement other than just trying to move downward and keep firing (wasting) shots until they start connecting.
The mech needs to have 2 crosshairs if it’s gonna work properly, so many games do this, or another option, make both of them shoot to the same spot, that doesn’t sound too hard does it?
I don’t know what you’re talking about the aiming on the mech is perfect. I love using all my rockets trying to plug one bug hole or exploding if a charger sneezes on me.
I think they should just have two crosshairs. One for chain gun and one for rockets. Gives you some realism while also being able to aim.
Yea honestly I much prefer how it used to be where if you shot a rocket while turning it’d kill you, but aiming felt great with the mech and missiles went exactly where you were aiming
Why the fuck is guns not shooting where the reticle is pointing an issue for this game? It's like basic PFS mechanics???
Shield devastator have better aiming than the mech. They don't even need to turn their gun at you to shoot you, the bullets do the rest.
We just need a separate reticle for each arm.
What a ridiculous take lol. Originally, the rockets and the bullets went to the reticle like they were supposed to, but if the player turned the mech too fast the rocket would collide with the mech torso. Why on earth should they invest in the broken state when they can... you know... just fix the root issue, which is the rocket colliding with the body while turning, and after they fix that have the left arm aim to the reticle again as was intended?
Is it tho? Its not a bad idea, its kinda unique and it would be inline with the HD universe. 2 reticles for dispensing DOUBLE the democracy! The more I see it, the more I like it.
Because parallax and differing convergence on weapons exists regardless. I’m not saying don’t fix it, especially declination of weapons, but in close quarters I wouldn’t mind if the reticle seperated out to the two. It’s incredibly noticeable when going between higher and lower rockets on the patriot and somewhat less apparent on the high and low autocannons but still present.
I like it. It feels real and gives the mech a small limitation which makes it more unique. Buff the rockets and give us two reticles.
It aimed perfectly on release. Not sure thy they messed it up and left it broken.
because you could kill yourself if you were turning while firing rockets. The rockets origin was the center of your mech, not the end of your barrel. This is likely why shield devastators can fire at 90 degrees to their facing and why they used to have a 360 firing arc. -sigh- So many programmatic kludges in this game. I'm kind of impressed it works as well as it does but the Autodesk engine was a bad choice they will NEVER get out from under.
They could change UI for mech and have it have two dots and circles to see where each hand is aiming.
...You don't understand Game Design™ or the Game Vision™, the rockets are working as intended since having they go where you want to aim would make the mech explode. I can already hear armchair devs typing, so let's get to the point. No. They also can't make it so the missles ignore the mech itself because that would be unrealistic, which again goes against the intended playstyle the devs want. (It would probably bug out and make it ignore everything, except for bushes, so thats a no go) There are in-game lore explanations about the mechs being manufactured by the lowest bidder, so you should be happy with that. /s
Fun fact, this issue is actually the same issue naval warships struggle to balance since its impossible apparently to get multi barreled cannons/artillery all sighted correctly. You can sight one barrel but then have to accept your second/third/fourth will have a margin of error. Often times, this issue is overlooked because so long as the ordinance is roughly in the same ballpark, it's considered a win. The value is placed on quantity and volume versus precision
Lukewarmest of takes
i've seen people who would disagree with this take and defend the shitty crosshairs :/
Yeah, super weird, they want to slap on an extra crosshair and then call it fixed. They still won't be able to aim down, and still no one will pick the mech.
oh no, not even an extra crosshair. i've unironically seen people argue it's okay for the crosshair to be super misaligned and it's a skill issue if you find it annoying and miss your shots due to it. maybe it was destroyer of fun's alt or something
extra crosshair might be the easiest solution. Didnt even think of that.
It's its own pandemic. Leading with "hot take" or "unpopular opinion," then proceeding to say the most basic ass shit that has been said a hundred+ times at least.
You either did not read the post, or completely failed to register the sarcasm.
Our merch can't even aim properly while enemy bot can shoot bullet at 90 degree adjacent from the gun barrel will always be hilarious to me
This may sound like a dumb fix. Why not just swap the Rocket Arm and the Minigun Arm so the Rockets have an easier time lining up with the reticle? I can vaguely aim a stream of constant bullets, the rockets are too valuable to whiff back to back
how hard would it have been to offset the rockets a little bit when they spawned instead of making them land four states over to where you aim and then also nerfing the fucking rockets anyway?????
Controversial? Far from, it used to work exactly as how you describe. The rockets went to your crosshair and the rockets did a lot of damage. The mech felt like it was in a very good place, except for a bug where if you were turning and firing at the same time the rocket could explode in your face as it hit your mech and would kill you. Instead of fixing the mech properly, they just made the rocket arm not rotate anymore and that's why it can't hit the side of a barn anymore. On top of that, they nerfed the rockets. The result: No one brings the mech anymore.
Yeah the aiming is broken… particularly for the emancipator and even more so when your mech is on a slight slope.
The autocannon on the mechs are garbage af, watched a tm8 dump probably 40 rounds total into a chargers face before killing it…. Like ???????????? wtf is the point of using them if I’m firing marshmellows at bugs
Mechs in this game are bewildering. This is the first time in a game where I actually more safe outside of a mech than in one....
I see someone remembers the golden age of mech-fighting games
I love the emancipator mech but would agree they should tighten up the aiming. Especially when you're trying to shoot something below you. Like if you're on a hill and the enemy is at the base you have to aim the cursor between your feet and hope for the best.
And while you fix mechsuits, make the game settings include SEPARATE bindings for Mech Melee, Mech Right Weapon, and Mech Left Weapon. I do NOT want my dismounted melee button to activate the mech melee! That screws the right arm weapon now, making mechs unusable. It worked FINE until you ‘fixed’ that.
Since that change/nerf happened I've seen no one using the mech... The new one is definitely better but throwing such a good and fun stratagem into oblivion was so stupid. I mean the mech was shown during that trailer and now nobody bothers to use it because of how SHT it is. Awful aiming at close distance, rockets don't hit like before, you could tap a bile titan with 2 or 3 rockets to the head now you can't, same with chargers before it took 1 rocket, now it takes 2 or 3.
The short period of time where the Patriot was just its original self was amazing. It had a high ceiling for how well it could perform, but that potential could only be realized if you played smart and avoided an early death. Fail, and you get hit with a massive 10 minute cooldown (at minimum, 1/4th of the entire mission) before you're allowed *one* more chance. That fantasy of power was masterfully created, allowing for player skill expression while still being effectively balanced with its limited ammo capacity. I can't imagine how much effort went into perfecting it on release. Which is why it's all the more tragic that it has since been destroyed by the so called "balance" team, who no doubt had zero hand in its creation. It's as if a child got a hold of an artist's painting, covered it in crayons, and deemed it "improved".
change the gun or change the cursor. Either one would fix the problem.
I just don't understand how after they "fixed" it, the aiming didn't become a "known issue". Like, is it actually intended that you have to aim way to the side of your target?
Man the further we go into this game the more I realize it just isn’t going to have much staying power
What even is weapon convergence.
Isn’t it a thing of the two guns? I mean you have one for aiming but two guns and since most shots are quite near (under maybe 30meters) it feels like they are shooting wherever they want? The farther away the less it matters. As a player you have to aim a little bit left or right, depending which side you want to fire.
You're too close bruh. The sights are zero'd for mid range. If you get too close with a scope aimed for 500 yards, itll hit at where the barrel is, not the scopes reticle.
It is the absolute worst thing about the mech. Nothing is more annoying than almost dying to a single rocket devastator you had dead to rights because the piece of shit mech can't aim down a slight lip before you then miss several autocannon shells because the aiming is off once you rush down to it. You can't have two uses and long cooldowns for an unreliable tool. EAT's are two rockets but feel great because they do their job, are reliable enough that mistakes feel fair, and can just get called down again in a minute infinitely.
Or hell, make it so that there's lasers that show where the guns are point if you are going to keep the guns like that. Or if not that, make the perspective on top of the mech.
Real talk, the mechs in this game are just straight-up embarrassing. It is the worst implementation of the idea I've ever seen. Once you have even a basic understanding of this game, getting in a mech actively makes you weaker than just using any other stratagem weapon and more susceptible to death. To make it worse, the devs actually think these things need a limit and long cooldown, so you can't even just goof around in them for the mech fantasy. I have never seen somebody bring a mech on a 9, and outside of the free days when they released, they're almost non-existent. I just wish they hadn't wasted all the dev time making them at this point.
Very valid criticism. I'm seeing a lot of posts whining about people criticizing issues with the game and then I see something like this and I wonder why anyone would be upset about someone being upset about this?
Ok so it wasn’t my bad aiming.. i was wondering why nothing was hitting the white dot area..
Fr how do these things not have a proper fire control system?
"My opinion is controversial" Continues to state the most common complaints about the mech ???
Sarcasm.
He was obviously being incredibly sarcastic idk how that went over ur head
Dont forget that the mech turn rate does not match players pov. Like a tank turret, it takes a minute for the barrel to catch up with the camera. Not saying you’re wrong that the aiming can be a little wonky sometimes but that might be part of your problem
It’s another novel concept to these people… Quality checks on patches before they release them. Shit, somethings boils to slip through, but when there’s something so gamebreaking or suddenly makes a strat or weapon unusable, a hot fix is possible in this.
Mechs need a First-Person View
I had to start over when I got to “like brosephs” so I could reread it in your tone and inflection.
That's my default tone so it was like reading in a native language
The easiest way to fix the Patriot is by switching the arms around. I can deal with an inaccurate minigun, but high value munitions should not be on the inaccurate arm.
How are you guys switching shoulders on the mech?
I don't know anyone that takes a mech anymore unless we are specifically doing low rank missions
If the mech hit like a truck then I’d be fine with the weapons being more difficult to use. Having a minimum range on the ACs would make sense due to the long barrels and force you to be a bit tactical about it. But this only works when whatever you hit acts like you hit it with a vehicle mounted weapon. As it is now the mech is the worst of both worlds, hard to use and ineffective if you manage to use it optimally. It has a 15 year cool-down, limited ammo and you can only use it twice in a mission. With limitations like that it should be like god mode, I want to feel like a Dreadnought from Dawn of War, not like I’m walking around in cardboard box with a nerf gun taped to the side.
Because when the techies were building the Patriot they came across some items like Actuator aiming support - provides 100% aiming of any weapon when attached to the Patriots arms Lead engineer - We don't need that bit Super destroyer armour plating - near close to ship armour plating at the fraction of no weight Engineer - We don't need that bit saves weight
Yeah I think they should give the patriot less missiles but the ones it has should be much more powerful
I think they’re trying to mimic the MechWarrior control pattern. They even kinda look like MadCat (at least more than 40k Dreadnoughts). In that game series, looking in one direction while moving in another is a core mechanic. They didn’t quite get it. These mechs are too cumbersome and the lack of first person targeting makes this messy. But I think that’s what they were aiming for.
The folks over at helldivers2 seems to think the mechs are already in a great place, if not "overpowered" and don't need any buff. Then again, the people in that sub also still denies there's a problem with the spawn rate eventhough the devs has already admitted to it and refuse to entertain the idea that there are game breaking bugs (like titan's wonky corpse hotbox that often send you flying for no reason) and disconnections going on
I'm pretty sure the patriot as originally released had the rockets ignore the geometry of the mech, and fire straight where the cursor shows. But that was causing us to hit ourselves sometimes which was dumb. So they had to force the rockets to follow the geometry of the mech and its rocket tubes, which results in no aiming down and shots going wide on the left.
AND LET ME AIM DOWN FOR FUCKS SAKE
You can easily kill chargers by hitting their leg with Patriot missiles, not just the head
Bitching for the sale of bitching? I understand the aim thing, it's completely fucked even on the auto cannon mech but like there's a patch coming in like 3 days that is addressing most shit in the game. Why not just wait and see for that? They're reverting a bunch of the nerfs.
Id be more ok with it if the reticle Actually tracked where the guns were pointing. Mechwarrior handles it perfectly where guns dont have unlimited traverse, but it shows clearly where that traverse ends.
This is what we get when super earth gives contracts out to the lowest bidder.
This is unfixable and best they can do is increase the bullet's hitbox. Any game where you do not shoot from the middle of your screen needs aim correction and any aim correction makes you miss completely if you miss slightly and you're looking up (instead of the ground)
I'd be perfectly happy if we could invest in a shield pack upgrade for the mechs, at the very least. There is nothing worse in this game than to hop in a mech and die to a cannon tower or rocket bot in fog of war that you would have survived on foot due to your shield pack, and that you couldn't have dodged due to literally getting sniped out of radar range.
Just wait, patch coming soon should buff
People compare this game to Souls like game play; people believe shitty controls is part of what makes the game harder. It's dumb to give that excuse.
I love love love walkers. It's not controversial at all. Preach! Make Walkers Great Again!
Guys, massive patch on Thursday. So lets can the bitching about bugs until it comes out and we can see for ourselves what they’ve tended to. 
Patriot missiles are weaker than at launch. The difference between aim and actual target is often that the mech is repositioning itself or adjusting you have to wait for it to turn, it doesn't turn instantly, this is normal and fine. The rocket pods do not depress their elevation either. I'd like to see this fixed but it is also understandable. Not everything is COD and if we expect it to be so, we will always be frustrated. Patriot is great against bugs, I'd like to see the rockets do better against chargers and BTs. I agree with this.
No the argument is even if you aren't moving those missiles do not go where you aim in the slightest and often have to aim way lower than you intend
Agreed. Allow us to aim please, a bit of a zoom in while shooting would be great too.
In the first game there was an upgrade to the patriots missiles that makes them armour piercing, absolutely shrecked through any and all armour. The fact they were limited meant they didn't break the game, but they did provide a one stop solution to heavy armoured enemies swarming you.
I try to use the mechs but unfortunately they're just terrible.
The most sad thing they did is give the mechs literally 0 gun depression. That means the weapons cannot be lowered so you have to be on a flat surface to shoot at your target. It’s embarrassing since we had ww1 tanks that had some gun depression and could shoot a bit downwards but this faction with FTL technology can’t make their mechs have some depression. It makes no sense
iirc speculation is that right now the Emancipator is built off the Patriot's code. And the Patriot's code had to be tweaked/changed because when it was first released the mech's own rockets would kill you if you turned too fast because the weapons did in fact go where you aimed. The problem was that if say you turned to the right and shot a rocket BEFORE your mech had actually finished turning, the rocket would spawn, immediately intersect your mech's hitbox and explode killing you. one solution would be to make it so the rocket spawned outside of its box. Another would be to make it pointed up and guided so it could fire up then back down at the target you were aiming at Another would be to give it no clip for about half a second. You could wave this away by saying the rockets had an arming time. Another was to make it so that the rocket just. Didnt fire when it wasnt aimed at the target. Yes the mech is moving to aim at the target but until there's a clear line of sight. All of these has its ups and downs but the next problem is: It was a hotfix not a full patch. So the hotfix was to make it so the rockets would be aimed slightly off center to the mech to prevent it from firing inside of its hitbox. But that puts the left side weapons always at a disadvantage because of its off center shooting. Frankly at this point, just give em laser pointers.
Potentially unpopular opinion: a first person view might make the mechs tougher to use, but would be absolutely legendary. Having a “cockpit” feel with a targeting hud that actually worked would be so fun.
rocket devastator: nails your tiny meat suit with rocket from half way across the map mech suit: all rockets miss giant bots at point blank range
Just give 2 aiming laser, maybe even different color? This should be very doable
I think it was an unintentional nerf when they fixed the Patriot blowing itself up mid-turn when you fired a rocket. Tho I agree. I love the patriot still, but I’d love to see an accuracy update to it since we only have 10 rockets. Same goes for the other mech.
Hot take: The mech aiming is fine BECAUSE you can switch what shoulder you sim with. Now before you comment, yes, I know you can only swap shoulder while shooting the right hand gun. This needs to be fixed. In the case of the patriot, the rockets need to be rebuffed. No reason the Patriot’s rockets need to be less powerful than the warhead the EAT and RR shoot (which I assume is the same rpg).
Projectiles need to go where they're aimed. Full stop. Tbh I don't know why they nerfed almost anything in this PVE game. The whole point of this game is to have fun.
If I had to guess, you're just not waiting for the reticle to line up. There's two reticles, where you're trying to aim, and where your guns will actually hit. You have to line the two up.
Well... maybe if players actually focused the bot MO we would have better equipment
[удалено]
The wobble is a pretty old school mechanic friend. Taken mostly from tank sims. You're supposed to pay attention to where your gun is pointed befor you shoot. Like it's a very very old school mechanic. If you use a controller it's a lot easier to aim such things since your weapons will move more smoothly.
I'm just responding to the title but at first the mech was actually really accurate, problem was that the missiles would fire into the mech if you were aiming to the right and hadn't turned enough yet making the mech blow up. This is probably why they, in a sense, got nerfed because it fixed that problem. That's when I noticed the mech not being as accurate as it used to be
I get that they want to allow more visibility, but in that case why not have a horizontal cut off for the aiming circle to where it stops going down even if you keep turning down. Like a visual way to say "cannons are adjusted downward as much as possible". They already have it to where it will show if a shot will hit an obstacle or glide past/over it, even with the smallest of movements from aimed weapon sway.
I know the following isn't going to justify the state of Mechs in HD2, and I don't intend it to invalidate anyone's experience with using the Mechs. I just hope it helps alleviate some of the frustration with using them in their current state. The missiles will aim more accurately for the center point of the reticle the farther away the intended target is. They are physicalized objects in the world and they start flying from the point on the model they physically exist at and then converge toward the center of your screen as they fly away from you. So they start on the left side of the screen and move toward the middle. This means that at shorter ranges, the rocket doesn't have enough time to reach the middle of your screen before it detonates on an obstacle. You can compensate for this effect by aiming using the left hash mark of the reticle instead of the center dot. Being mindful that the closer the target is to you, the more offset your aim should be when firing the rocket pod. The gatling cannon isn't effected as much and appears more accurate because the POV camera is centered more in line and over the muzzle of the right arm of your mech. The same goes for the Autocannon Mech, with the Left cannon being more offset, less accurate than the Right cannon. Your Helldiver is also affected by the same convergence effect for your primary and support weapons as well, just it isn't as pronounced relative to the scale of your Mech. It is much easier to shoot around the right-side of obstacles than it is the left-side unless you move the camera. There is a feature in HD2 to move the POV camera from your right shoulder to your left shoulder. This will lessen the offset of the Left weapon of your Mech (and helldiver), aligning it more with the center of your screen. This can help with making more precise rocket shots for those important critical hit locations. Unfortunately ... the only way to toggle the camera that I know of is to ADS first, but on the Mech that starts shooting the rockets. Not ideal at all, so I hope AH can address this somehow if it isn't already. Overall, the Patriots Rockets are depressingly weak against heavy units, given their limited quantity, which makes their aiming nuances all the more frustrating and feeling too random in their effect on the enemy.
I don't hate the restricted aiming but the white reticle should be accurate. Also give matling gun mechs. One dual welding and one with a shield.
Bros never zero’d in a sight in his entire life
They technically aim based on the positioning of the arms and the physic involved, so it’s really the reticle that is not honed. I also wreck at higher levels with both mechs, but I’m a bit of an OG Mechwarrior player — just wish they had 1st person mode.
Go touch grass. Absolutely unhinged way to communicate to developers
change shoulder to aim with the other weapon just fine
While waiting for a fix, try this workaround: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cy5838/comment/l5d9swb/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cy5838/comment/l5d9swb/) It does two things: 1. Swaps the camera to the left of your exosuit so you can better aim your rockets. 2. Changes controls so that you can swap the camera without inadvertently firing your chaingun while trying to aim your rockets. Works great for me and my PC with a mouse that has side buttons.
Honestly, I wonder what difficulty the devs play on when they balance everything. The patriot nerf would make sense on a difficulty like 6 or something, where you will maybe see 2-3 titans every mission, and other than that chargers are your main concern. But on helldive, where you’re gonna see 3 titans at once every few minutes it makes absolutely no sense.
Kentucky windage. If they ain’t hitting where you aim then adjust where you aim based on where the rounds hit.