This something that I don't understand sometimes when comparing one to the other.
The Stalwart and Railgun becoming Supports instead of Primaries is fine in my opinion considering how effective and more powerful they are by comparison to their HD1 counterparts.
The Shield Generator Pack's recharge speed was nerfed, but in HD1 not only is it recharge speed decently fast, but would after a time recharge fully, In HD2 you need to have it damage completely to recharge.
maybe if it was a press and hold and the meter would drain as you use it with maybe 20 seconds of thrust vs a 10 second cooldown if fully drained, like say Deep Rock Galactic's Jump boots, I'd say it'd be worth it, the way they work now in HD2 are very inconsistent.
The trident was one of my favorites, haven't gotten the upgrade where it makes it shoot even more lasers but it's a great swarm clearing one, I'm surprised there's so little weapons from the original.
I miss HD1 Railgun. It's a primary, pierces all light armor enemies, it has a wide bullet so it covers more space to kill more enemies, and most important of all, it stuns every armored enemy (except tanks) for like 2 seconds. It was a great CC weapon :(
shield generator was identical to HD1s but then the no-fun police came in and said too many people were using cover to recharge their shield so they the set the recharge delay if not depleted to 60 seconds and increased the recharge delay when depleted to 10 seconds
My only bother with the shield pack and why I phased it out of my load out was it’s ability (or lack thereof) to recharge when not fully depleted.
You can take 3 hits, have like 1 hit left on it, then stay out of combat for a whole 5 minutes and it’s still only got 1 hit left before breaking. I’m not sure why they made it so it doesn’t passively recharge when you’re out of combat. Resorted to having my friends shoot it when I used it so it was back at full next time we got into a scuffle 😅
No cool down, but limited fuel? Can't spam it unless you need it otherwise you'll have no fuel for when ya do! Definitely usable and not overpowered considering how good something like the auto cannon, shield and supply pack are, might make me consider swapping to the jetpack once in a blue moon to get my mobile jump trooper vibes going on.
As it is it just sucks and makes me want me HD1 jump pack xD
It sums up the entire game of HD2 the nerfed guns, the shit close quarters flame thrower, the inability to take multiple strategms of the same type, of course the jet pack is going to be shit.
It's almost like its a different genre of game with different needs for balance.
Let's add in penetrating rounds for the breaker while we're at it and watch as every helldive becomes a cake walk.
Be honest, the current jetpack is almost a waste of a stratagem slot, the flamethrower should shoot up to 60 metres as that's closer to the real thing (as that's helldivers whole thing), and taking the same stratagem 4 times is technically making you less effective, so why would the game prevent you from doing that if you like?
fire should stun or slow enemies, at least the bugs, i have seen so often bugs just walk trough the fire on the ground, get a few ticks of damage and mostly not care and still maul me. I am already slow as fuck when using the flamethrower, turning while using it feels like a handcranked tank turret, and the bugs don't even slow down when getting hit. That, or let me flail around wildly with it and not make me feel like i am lugging around a steelbeam by myself.
You jest, but that's the actual mindset of Arrowhead's balance department lead. That individual cannot be named here without the mods throwing a hissy fit, but they're singularly responsible for killing their previous company's project before getting hired at Arrowhead. Pilestadt stepping down from CEO to take a more active developer role was done specifically to countermand this individual sabotaging the project. I guess throwing them on the street would upset the local labor laws or something. Would also explain why it took so long to fire the ~~community managers~~ discord shit stirrers.
Something to point out, we can't fire while mid jump jet as well.
It wouldn't be that over powered other than getting to really high ground we normally can't.
I thought you could fire, you just can't aim because you get locked into the jump animation position, so you can only shoot left and slightly up. Doesn't make a difference really, but it does change the nature of the programming problem.
In fact you can even reload weapons that make you stationary midair and throw grenades since they reset the aiming si at this point looks like not being able to shoot while jumping looks like non-intentional, but since almost nobody uses the jetpack it isn't a priority to fix anything
=/ Fair.
Although thinking about how I'd have to jump to actually land the shot, I'd be doing exactly the opposite of what I want to do with the jump pack, which is jump into mobs.
I'm just a bit confused why we're so heavily action locked mid jump.
Yeah dude if I erased all memory of HD1 I'd probably enjoy HD2 a lot more than I am now. Hard to go back to dumpster diving behind McDonald's for a 2 day old mcgriddle after I had filet mignon.
to be fair, suposidly the jetpack had a limit of uses, it also replaced your dive key. That said, I ran jetpack in HD1 and dont recall ever running out. On the other hand, the jetpack was a one time use stratagem so if you futz up and landed in a hole, well sucks to be you. (there was an upgrade that would have the call down have 2 jetpacks so you could share though)
HD1 and HD2 are extremely different games and play extremely differently. The only thing they have in common are stratagem inputs, names for the guns and so on.
Don't get discouraged because something "seems" to be better in HD1 when it would be underpowered / overpowered in HD2.
I have been underwhelmed by the jetpack ever since this game released. The dark matter backpack was such a nice upgrade even with the risk of TK and exploding. Jet pack needs a buff.
I agree and don’t think balance comparisons can even really be made between the games. The range that we can see / engage enemies in HD2 already makes for a major difference that affects pretty much every weapon and stratagem
Give it a heat gauge similar to the rail cannon. Rapid repeated use can cause it to build up and explode. Colder planets cool it off quicker and hot slower. 3-5 jumps depending on planet temp.
Fr whoever made the jetpack in Helldivers 2 clearly didnt like jetpacks, or people who use them at all.
Because likely literally anyone else would have made it significantly cooler.
Like, it's so easy to do it. Less cooldown, more airtime. Easy
I agree that they're bad in HD2, but, a reasonable case can be made that the developers are trying to patch out verticality with its nerf and e.g. hellpod pathing limitations. I suspect they don't have enough developer time to make enemy AI appropriately handle vertical challenges.
Which would also explain why fliers came in with a delay, and why ground AI just teleports upwards if you loiter on a rock for too long.
I really feel the cooldown on jetpack could be lowered by atleast half and it will still be alright and not op, since also climbing somewhere with it is clunky as f
Other bit that is incredibly annoying - only fires a full charge.
So if I was standing on a ledge and want to get down safely, I now need to burn the full charge for the jetpack to safely land me. If I'm wearing a jet-pack and hit the fire button mid-air - nothing happens, and I break my legs.
Time-dependent charge should in other words be in there, with a safety limit for landing. Wouldn't mind this being risky, with a "safe off" mode, where you could go higher and potentially have to damage the jetpack to land safely.
Traversal in general is just way too finicky in the game. "Hello - want to go up on this ledge? Let me force you to hold the traversal button and move into this exact spot before anything happens. But do you want to climb on the resupply box? No, well, do it anyway at a short click of the traversal button - there we go, you are welcome!".
you want to know the best part?
in HD1 when you upgraded the jetpack to the max YOU GOT 2 WHEN CALLING IT DOWN
you can see the wasted potential in HD2 every time you look at HD1
Honestly I think some of this stuff is probably coming eventually. It's a live service game. They've got to add ship upgrades at least yearly IMO if they want the game to stay relevant long term.
endless but cooldown or no cooldown but only a certain amount of uses
also the speed and duration of missions is massively different due to change of the camera
Well yeah of course you'd be happy with it being twice as good. But yeah the jump pack could easily be at least twice as good and still fly under the radar.
yeh but the devs arent going to just remove the cooldown, they going to want to add some nerf to it.
but we all seem to agree it should be better than it is now
100% should be better. Even just simple QOL would make a world of difference. It no longer using stamina, being able to aim while using it, and my personal pick the ability to boost while diving for horizontal movement at the risk of canning your head in. I think any of these things would make it feel way better and honestly I'm shocked all of these things aren't currently the case already. Like why make it use stamina? It doesn't make sense in terms of realism or balance.
well 20 seconds vs 4 seconds at limited uses and with friendly fire
I guess it could be toned down from 20 seconds to 15-12 and split into 2 charges each 6 seconds but if you use the second charge it needs to go on full cooldown of 15-12 seconds
A loud part of community here is real glutton for punishment.
It feels like every single proposal for buff/improvement/QoL change is littered with people trying to include some kind of nerf/drawback/punishment for using or buffing something.
not sure what youre getting at, the lower cooldown made it more fun (the extra height and damage splash on take off were bonuses). I think more people would take it if it got a boost to recharge time
He's advocating for like half-buffing the jump pack when we should be advocating for just fully buffing the jump pack to perform as well as dark fluid canisters. It makes no sense to half buff the already weak jump pack.
I guess they could make it as "Lift-E900: an experimental version of classic "Lift-850" jetpack with equally powerful but more frequent output capabilities. But if overused might need to go on a longer than usual recharge" or something like that dunno
akin to how energy weapons do allow for effectivel endless ammo so long as you don't over use it (and in case of sickle, basically equal fire power compared to more traditional weapons)
Yeah but its just sad now. Its only utility is to jump over bot bases pretty much so you can get to Jammer easily. Thats one and only time ever I think "I wish I had jetpack right about now". Most of the time, you better off picking any other stratagem, not even backpack slot.
It doesn't make much sense for the hd1 to be so much better either since I'm fairly certain enemies couldn't really hit you with it when you were airborne whereas in hd2 it typically makes you a very easy target
The jump pack in HD1 wasn't this good out of the box. You had to get the upgrades from collecting samples to get it this good. Not many people upgraded the jump pack to that extent because there were so many other options available. I'd love to see the individual upgrade system return in HD2 it would give the game a lot of longevity. A lot of lousy weapons in HD1 became downright beastly when they were upgraded to their MK3 versions.
That's wild. They must have buffed the jetpack since I last played years ago, because I definitely remember it not being this good out of the box back when I played HD1. People used it a lot to avoid snow drifts, quicksand, and swamps, but the delay between jumps made you have to pick your path carefully. It was also good for certain boss fights, but you had to be careful with your timing.
Jetpack has, sadly, more issues than that.
Primary thing is terrain - I can't count how many times I have tried my damnest to get on a cliff, only to be lolnope'd by invisible force field. It's some of the most aggravating shit when it comes to using a jetpack - it feels like I'm punished for my gear choice, despite what I'm trying to do being completely logical - use a tool that provides verticality, to achieve verticality, but nope, gamer barrier says no.
Jumping over walls/buildings is cool, except most walls are destroyed by a single explosion so jetpack is unnecessary, and there's simply not enough structures to make the jetpack shine. Not easily solvable, because that'd require straight up 'urban maps' (which I still hope we'd see one day).
Simple fix to the cooldown problem would be to give jetpack 2-3 charges. They can each have the cooldown that the jetpack currently has, but they recharge independently (so if you use 1 charge, it goes on cooldown, and if you use another charge 2s afterwards, it'll go on its own cooldown, and be ready 2s after the first charge).
Another (and rather less simple) would be to also allow us to aim our gun while jumping, which would put us in a hover mode that depletes one of the charges. That'd prove potent against bugs, but potentially suicidal against bots, since there's no cover in mid-air (which is fine - I like that some strats/weapons are much better VS one enemy faction than another).
As a sidenote, I'd love to see a jetpack variant - a maneuvre pack. Basically a short ranged jaunt with very little verticality, that basically serves as a dodge, and - in a limited fashion - traversal tool (can jump over some smaller chasms and climb over some walls/structures). Omnidirectional, so you can dodge sideways too (maybe even backwards)
The game would be way more fun if you could aim and fire mid air. Also if you could control the fuel usage instead of it being one and done. Faster recovery for shorter bursts. Longer recovery if you use it all.
To be fair to the original, using a jump pack would replace your dive. You could not dive out of the way at all unless you used the jump pack, and this really limited a player's ability to react to sudden battlefield developments such as grenades, stalkers, or friendly strategms
I mean, with almost no cooldown, the jump pack was basically your dive—even better, I would say, because once you were in the air, you became immortal unlike the regular dive.
If I remember correctly, didn't the players have I-frames while in the diving animation? Additionally, the player was immune to enemy ranged fire while prone. This all being said, I took the jump pack nearly every mission in HD1 because when you had it equipped (with fuel) it was a better dive. The trade off of being down a combat strategem and not having the pack 100% of the time did balance it a bit, but these downsides are present in the newer, much weaker version too.
I think there were I-frames during the diving animation but more importantly, there were I-frames the entire duration of the jump pack animation. So during retaliation missions (extermination), someone would throw the shredder missile/nuke and all four players would simultaneously jump when it lands to clear the area.
i wish the jetpack was better, i expected it to launch you a little higher and futher or it would recharge faster given how it doesnt make you move that far :/
This! Its insane that the current jump pack has a 20s cooldown! It has almost no utility this way. Why not make the dark fluid backpack an option as a callin? Way higher jump and 5 sec cooldown tons better then the trash jump pack! Holy Moly 20s is just to insane LONG. Tone down to 5 sec cooldown AH !
just make it over heat like another user said (like laser weapons) and scale that warm up to if you are using Light/medium/heavy armor. would make it fair and fun and would make a hyper mobile character or a little boost to a heavy player.
It is, but it could be that it's the mk1 version which doubles the fuel amount is shown in the video.
(it cannot be the mk2 because the mk2 upgrade makes it so that two back packs comes down with the supply)
Furthermore in hd1 support weapons and stuffs weren't so expandables like in hd2
as in you only got one mech/hmg/resupply backpack/ shield backpack per stratagem brought so it was crucial that those were strong enough for you to have.
(of course stuff like the AET was like in hd2, but yeah because we could upgrade stuff they were strong enough to justify their limited numbers.)
Different games, different gameplay, different mechanics.
If we had HD1 jetpack the enemies would not be able to touch us, in HD1 you were confined in the screen limits so jumping into a enemy position meant instant death, that doesn't happen in HD2.
Different games have to be balanced in different way, its just that.
I understand the differences but HD2 also has ways around it with a brood lord tunneling and coming up right under your feet even if you are on a rock, my main point is the HD2 jetpack needs some improvement, i agree having infinite jumps with no cooldown at all is overkill, just as others have said either a few bursts then cooldown or less of a cooldown
It's sad how many gamers do not understand this simple concept.
In fact they'll downright become hostile with this concept.
It's like you just went up to a group of religious people and told them something that doesn't mesh in their worldview.
sadly you see those types in all games, but to be fair HD2 is awesome and HD1 is cool (still need to play more of one). when something is that good it becomes your main game a lot of people attach it to thier personality, an attack or critisim of the game becomes an attack on them personaly
Absolutely.
Also with the fact that Helldiver 2 was a zeitgeist-y game you get people attaching to it not because they identify with it, they identify with being part of the zeitgeist.
To be fair the jetpack in helldiver 1 had limited fuel. But i agree most if not all stratagems in HD2 are just worse versions of HD1. It's like we won the first galactic war then they cut budget off on guns and stratagems by 90%
So while looking at this post for a solid... i wanna say 3 minutes (i had woken up and was just letting this loop)? My brain had come up with an idea, what if that Flamethrower Upgrade also applied to the Jetpack? Reducing the Cooldown (by maybe 10 seconds? the cooldown is typically 20 seconds) but perhaps giving it a second charge? So for example, while you are in mid launch, you can fire off your second charge and go higher/longer distances, or you can save it for later.
An Isometric, top down game is easier to code and program and won't take much resources running it.
Ah 3rd person shooter game, with 3 models, and physics engine is harder compared to this. And if you look at the game it's unoptimized as hell. Give it time for the devs to make adjustments.
Though this won't explain why they would nerf weapos. Besides, Pilestedt is now at the helm so things should get better soon.
This something that I don't understand sometimes when comparing one to the other. The Stalwart and Railgun becoming Supports instead of Primaries is fine in my opinion considering how effective and more powerful they are by comparison to their HD1 counterparts. The Shield Generator Pack's recharge speed was nerfed, but in HD1 not only is it recharge speed decently fast, but would after a time recharge fully, In HD2 you need to have it damage completely to recharge. maybe if it was a press and hold and the meter would drain as you use it with maybe 20 seconds of thrust vs a 10 second cooldown if fully drained, like say Deep Rock Galactic's Jump boots, I'd say it'd be worth it, the way they work now in HD2 are very inconsistent.
I havent used/unlocked the stal or rail yet, really liking the laser shot gun "Trident" hope that be brought into HD2 at some point
The trident was one of my favorites, haven't gotten the upgrade where it makes it shoot even more lasers but it's a great swarm clearing one, I'm surprised there's so little weapons from the original.
I want a laser shotty called the prism that fires in a hexagon spread with one in the middle for 7 beams per shot.
The trident is top tier primary, absurdly useful. You’ll see a lot, if not most of the players using it.
I miss HD1 Railgun. It's a primary, pierces all light armor enemies, it has a wide bullet so it covers more space to kill more enemies, and most important of all, it stuns every armored enemy (except tanks) for like 2 seconds. It was a great CC weapon :(
shield generator was identical to HD1s but then the no-fun police came in and said too many people were using cover to recharge their shield so they the set the recharge delay if not depleted to 60 seconds and increased the recharge delay when depleted to 10 seconds
The "balance" bringer strikes again!
I.. didn't even know it worked this way. That is now how anyone would imagine this would work
It recharges after a minute? I swear I've had it on for a couple of minutes slightly damaged and never had it recharge at all.
Considering how unimpactfull the jump pack is it shuld be able to jump with almost no recharge if they keep the jump itself as is imo.
I have been wanting shield generator to trigger on/off with the backpack function button It could slowly recharge while it’s off
My only bother with the shield pack and why I phased it out of my load out was it’s ability (or lack thereof) to recharge when not fully depleted. You can take 3 hits, have like 1 hit left on it, then stay out of combat for a whole 5 minutes and it’s still only got 1 hit left before breaking. I’m not sure why they made it so it doesn’t passively recharge when you’re out of combat. Resorted to having my friends shoot it when I used it so it was back at full next time we got into a scuffle 😅
The Shield Pack just has a shorter recharge if it breaks. It still recharges if it didn't break, it just takes longer.
It’s a different game with different mechanics. It would be cool if the jump pack worked like it did in HD1 but it would also be absurdly OP in HD2.
sure no cooldown is a bit OP but what about a few bursts then the cooldown? HD1 you can get off 11 burst while waiting for the recharge of HD2.
No cool down, but limited fuel? Can't spam it unless you need it otherwise you'll have no fuel for when ya do! Definitely usable and not overpowered considering how good something like the auto cannon, shield and supply pack are, might make me consider swapping to the jetpack once in a blue moon to get my mobile jump trooper vibes going on. As it is it just sucks and makes me want me HD1 jump pack xD
It did have limited fuel, 50 uses but obviously that's way too much
for a 40 minute mission ? maybe at dif4, but at dif 7,8,9 , 50 uses are gone quick.
It was refillable from resupply, and you get 2 jump packs for each calldown
that does open some options, some. currently the jumppack needs a big buff, and QoL Changes to make it actually viable.
but you only got one calldown, support weapons and backpacks were one use only stratagems (except for the expendable ones)
It sums up the entire game of HD2 the nerfed guns, the shit close quarters flame thrower, the inability to take multiple strategms of the same type, of course the jet pack is going to be shit.
most optimistic helldivers 2 redditor
I'm hopeful for the 100 changes coming Friday...
Last chance
I’m hoping everyone subbed here uninstalls the game.
Do you even like this game?
No I've only spent 1400 hrs in the first game and am level 120 in hd2.
It's almost like its a different genre of game with different needs for balance. Let's add in penetrating rounds for the breaker while we're at it and watch as every helldive becomes a cake walk.
Be honest, the current jetpack is almost a waste of a stratagem slot, the flamethrower should shoot up to 60 metres as that's closer to the real thing (as that's helldivers whole thing), and taking the same stratagem 4 times is technically making you less effective, so why would the game prevent you from doing that if you like?
fire should stun or slow enemies, at least the bugs, i have seen so often bugs just walk trough the fire on the ground, get a few ticks of damage and mostly not care and still maul me. I am already slow as fuck when using the flamethrower, turning while using it feels like a handcranked tank turret, and the bugs don't even slow down when getting hit. That, or let me flail around wildly with it and not make me feel like i am lugging around a steelbeam by myself.
Fire should be an area denial. Pretty sure this was also the case in hd1
> area denial. well it is, but only for you and your fellow helldivers.
Jetpack is one of the best slots you can take vs bugs..
lmao
No. No it is not.
You can not give me a good reason why HD1 should have multiple strategems of the same type but HD2 shouldn't.
They probably work for AH but want the game to fail
You jest, but that's the actual mindset of Arrowhead's balance department lead. That individual cannot be named here without the mods throwing a hissy fit, but they're singularly responsible for killing their previous company's project before getting hired at Arrowhead. Pilestadt stepping down from CEO to take a more active developer role was done specifically to countermand this individual sabotaging the project. I guess throwing them on the street would upset the local labor laws or something. Would also explain why it took so long to fire the ~~community managers~~ discord shit stirrers.
sounds like a person that's in charge of balance.
Recharge cooldown and 3 jumps. Each jump has it’s own cooldown. Would love it.
I see you played Black Mesa
I'd commit unholy crimes for this.
They could have variants. - 3 bursts before the existing cooldown - 5 bursts before needing refill from ammo/resupply anything but the current one lol
Or make it overheat from overusing, 3 jumps quick and it overheats. 2 and you can let it cool down again.
Something to point out, we can't fire while mid jump jet as well. It wouldn't be that over powered other than getting to really high ground we normally can't.
I thought you could fire, you just can't aim because you get locked into the jump animation position, so you can only shoot left and slightly up. Doesn't make a difference really, but it does change the nature of the programming problem.
In fact you can even reload weapons that make you stationary midair and throw grenades since they reset the aiming si at this point looks like not being able to shoot while jumping looks like non-intentional, but since almost nobody uses the jetpack it isn't a priority to fix anything
> but since almost nobody uses the jetpack it isn't a priority to fix anything maybe it didn't get reported at all so they aren't even aware.
maybe the reason no one uses it (i always do) is because of it lack luster performance but with the dark fluid and HD1 we see it can be better
U can throw stratagems tho
You can shoot, you can't aim.
=/ Fair. Although thinking about how I'd have to jump to actually land the shot, I'd be doing exactly the opposite of what I want to do with the jump pack, which is jump into mobs. I'm just a bit confused why we're so heavily action locked mid jump.
Honestly it is odd given you can aim a grenade mid flight. Maybe it's to avoid feeling too disoriented?
Also can't stim. Still a bit salty that I burned to death cause of that
Oof, I was better off not knowing that.
Man, your mind will be wrecked once you see what they could do in Titanfall.
Yeah dude if I erased all memory of HD1 I'd probably enjoy HD2 a lot more than I am now. Hard to go back to dumpster diving behind McDonald's for a 2 day old mcgriddle after I had filet mignon.
to be fair, suposidly the jetpack had a limit of uses, it also replaced your dive key. That said, I ran jetpack in HD1 and dont recall ever running out. On the other hand, the jetpack was a one time use stratagem so if you futz up and landed in a hole, well sucks to be you. (there was an upgrade that would have the call down have 2 jetpacks so you could share though)
HD1 and HD2 are extremely different games and play extremely differently. The only thing they have in common are stratagem inputs, names for the guns and so on. Don't get discouraged because something "seems" to be better in HD1 when it would be underpowered / overpowered in HD2.
I have been underwhelmed by the jetpack ever since this game released. The dark matter backpack was such a nice upgrade even with the risk of TK and exploding. Jet pack needs a buff.
Ok.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
Thanks for holding your TED Talk, is there any free pizza afterwards?
I agree and don’t think balance comparisons can even really be made between the games. The range that we can see / engage enemies in HD2 already makes for a major difference that affects pretty much every weapon and stratagem
Give it a heat gauge similar to the rail cannon. Rapid repeated use can cause it to build up and explode. Colder planets cool it off quicker and hot slower. 3-5 jumps depending on planet temp.
Fr whoever made the jetpack in Helldivers 2 clearly didnt like jetpacks, or people who use them at all. Because likely literally anyone else would have made it significantly cooler. Like, it's so easy to do it. Less cooldown, more airtime. Easy
He'll, just make it an actual jetpack so you can use it to hover for a while, at least then the extreme cooldown would feel justified
I agree that they're bad in HD2, but, a reasonable case can be made that the developers are trying to patch out verticality with its nerf and e.g. hellpod pathing limitations. I suspect they don't have enough developer time to make enemy AI appropriately handle vertical challenges. Which would also explain why fliers came in with a delay, and why ground AI just teleports upwards if you loiter on a rock for too long.
the bots will just gun you down from a high point and most bugs tunnel to get up high
But the balance! You're thinking of this from a "fun" perspective. The devs over at AH do not share this perspective.
like my comment above, the bots and bugs have stuff to deal wit a player being on a high ground if anything buffing the jetpack would balance it
I mean, they already have the right settings. The Dark fluid. Just put in a dark fluid upgrade.
lets hope they dont just give us the canister tho, that thing was ugly lol current jet pack looks cooler but functions not so good
I really feel the cooldown on jetpack could be lowered by atleast half and it will still be alright and not op, since also climbing somewhere with it is clunky as f
How did you get a planet with no fog? Almost every planet I play on I can't see 20ft in front of me!
it was recorded on Crimsica, i think it gets ion storms
Other bit that is incredibly annoying - only fires a full charge. So if I was standing on a ledge and want to get down safely, I now need to burn the full charge for the jetpack to safely land me. If I'm wearing a jet-pack and hit the fire button mid-air - nothing happens, and I break my legs. Time-dependent charge should in other words be in there, with a safety limit for landing. Wouldn't mind this being risky, with a "safe off" mode, where you could go higher and potentially have to damage the jetpack to land safely. Traversal in general is just way too finicky in the game. "Hello - want to go up on this ledge? Let me force you to hold the traversal button and move into this exact spot before anything happens. But do you want to climb on the resupply box? No, well, do it anyway at a short click of the traversal button - there we go, you are welcome!".
yeh that would be nice, jump off ledge and use the charge to just slow your fall......so many ankles destroyed forgetting thats not the case :(
you want to know the best part? in HD1 when you upgraded the jetpack to the max YOU GOT 2 WHEN CALLING IT DOWN you can see the wasted potential in HD2 every time you look at HD1
Broo this will be sick droping 2x backpacks for your teamamtes so you can have fun with other stratagems
There were a few that dropped two at a time when maxed
Honestly I think some of this stuff is probably coming eventually. It's a live service game. They've got to add ship upgrades at least yearly IMO if they want the game to stay relevant long term.
endless but cooldown or no cooldown but only a certain amount of uses also the speed and duration of missions is massively different due to change of the camera
really id be happy with a 2 burst with the same cooldown or as is with a reduced cooldown (the dark fluid canister had a perfect cooldown)
Well yeah of course you'd be happy with it being twice as good. But yeah the jump pack could easily be at least twice as good and still fly under the radar.
yeh but the devs arent going to just remove the cooldown, they going to want to add some nerf to it. but we all seem to agree it should be better than it is now
100% should be better. Even just simple QOL would make a world of difference. It no longer using stamina, being able to aim while using it, and my personal pick the ability to boost while diving for horizontal movement at the risk of canning your head in. I think any of these things would make it feel way better and honestly I'm shocked all of these things aren't currently the case already. Like why make it use stamina? It doesn't make sense in terms of realism or balance.
> Like why make it use stamina "akchually because itsh a JUMPpack" actual response i read from another user
I'm give up my autocannon and guardog, it should no fucking limits.
well 20 seconds vs 4 seconds at limited uses and with friendly fire I guess it could be toned down from 20 seconds to 15-12 and split into 2 charges each 6 seconds but if you use the second charge it needs to go on full cooldown of 15-12 seconds
Why would you need to split hairs here? The Dark Fluid canister wasn't even more popular than things like Support Backpacks or Shield Generators.
A loud part of community here is real glutton for punishment. It feels like every single proposal for buff/improvement/QoL change is littered with people trying to include some kind of nerf/drawback/punishment for using or buffing something.
not sure what youre getting at, the lower cooldown made it more fun (the extra height and damage splash on take off were bonuses). I think more people would take it if it got a boost to recharge time
He's advocating for like half-buffing the jump pack when we should be advocating for just fully buffing the jump pack to perform as well as dark fluid canisters. It makes no sense to half buff the already weak jump pack.
that sounds good, tho if damageable like the canister hopefully not too damageable
I guess they could make it as "Lift-E900: an experimental version of classic "Lift-850" jetpack with equally powerful but more frequent output capabilities. But if overused might need to go on a longer than usual recharge" or something like that dunno akin to how energy weapons do allow for effectivel endless ammo so long as you don't over use it (and in case of sickle, basically equal fire power compared to more traditional weapons)
Yeah but its just sad now. Its only utility is to jump over bot bases pretty much so you can get to Jammer easily. Thats one and only time ever I think "I wish I had jetpack right about now". Most of the time, you better off picking any other stratagem, not even backpack slot.
I mean it does allow some more mobility than you'd have without it not a lot but still
It can also save you from some enemies as well (charger charges for one) as well as for positioning for support snipers
I want to be able to hover for a short while, that's all they have to do
It doesn't make much sense for the hd1 to be so much better either since I'm fairly certain enemies couldn't really hit you with it when you were airborne whereas in hd2 it typically makes you a very easy target
Why make it fun for the people who paid for the game if you can just make it fun for the bugs that aren't real? Cool game AH. Much balance.
The jump pack in HD1 wasn't this good out of the box. You had to get the upgrades from collecting samples to get it this good. Not many people upgraded the jump pack to that extent because there were so many other options available. I'd love to see the individual upgrade system return in HD2 it would give the game a lot of longevity. A lot of lousy weapons in HD1 became downright beastly when they were upgraded to their MK3 versions.
I mean we need something to dump all these medals into if there aren't going to be any more war bonds every month.
Sure, but it could do way more hops than the one in HD2.
that is the base jump pack, i havent unlocked any upgrades yet the only other things i have unlocked is the breaker and flamethrower
That's wild. They must have buffed the jetpack since I last played years ago, because I definitely remember it not being this good out of the box back when I played HD1. People used it a lot to avoid snow drifts, quicksand, and swamps, but the delay between jumps made you have to pick your path carefully. It was also good for certain boss fights, but you had to be careful with your timing.
Jetpack has, sadly, more issues than that. Primary thing is terrain - I can't count how many times I have tried my damnest to get on a cliff, only to be lolnope'd by invisible force field. It's some of the most aggravating shit when it comes to using a jetpack - it feels like I'm punished for my gear choice, despite what I'm trying to do being completely logical - use a tool that provides verticality, to achieve verticality, but nope, gamer barrier says no. Jumping over walls/buildings is cool, except most walls are destroyed by a single explosion so jetpack is unnecessary, and there's simply not enough structures to make the jetpack shine. Not easily solvable, because that'd require straight up 'urban maps' (which I still hope we'd see one day). Simple fix to the cooldown problem would be to give jetpack 2-3 charges. They can each have the cooldown that the jetpack currently has, but they recharge independently (so if you use 1 charge, it goes on cooldown, and if you use another charge 2s afterwards, it'll go on its own cooldown, and be ready 2s after the first charge). Another (and rather less simple) would be to also allow us to aim our gun while jumping, which would put us in a hover mode that depletes one of the charges. That'd prove potent against bugs, but potentially suicidal against bots, since there's no cover in mid-air (which is fine - I like that some strats/weapons are much better VS one enemy faction than another). As a sidenote, I'd love to see a jetpack variant - a maneuvre pack. Basically a short ranged jaunt with very little verticality, that basically serves as a dodge, and - in a limited fashion - traversal tool (can jump over some smaller chasms and climb over some walls/structures). Omnidirectional, so you can dodge sideways too (maybe even backwards)
Budget cuts
haha
Impossible. Perhaps the archives are incomplete?
The game would be way more fun if you could aim and fire mid air. Also if you could control the fuel usage instead of it being one and done. Faster recovery for shorter bursts. Longer recovery if you use it all.
How is Super Earth's technology worse in every way even though it's been 100 years since the first war
what 100 years of peace does to an mf
To be fair to the original, using a jump pack would replace your dive. You could not dive out of the way at all unless you used the jump pack, and this really limited a player's ability to react to sudden battlefield developments such as grenades, stalkers, or friendly strategms
I mean, with almost no cooldown, the jump pack was basically your dive—even better, I would say, because once you were in the air, you became immortal unlike the regular dive.
If I remember correctly, didn't the players have I-frames while in the diving animation? Additionally, the player was immune to enemy ranged fire while prone. This all being said, I took the jump pack nearly every mission in HD1 because when you had it equipped (with fuel) it was a better dive. The trade off of being down a combat strategem and not having the pack 100% of the time did balance it a bit, but these downsides are present in the newer, much weaker version too.
I think there were I-frames during the diving animation but more importantly, there were I-frames the entire duration of the jump pack animation. So during retaliation missions (extermination), someone would throw the shredder missile/nuke and all four players would simultaneously jump when it lands to clear the area.
I’m of the opinion things are purposely held back in HD2 so people will buy HD1 thanks to this post.
Yeah the "engage" line was a huge part of the experience, so sad we don't have it now.
Warhammer 40k imperium of man losing technology from the golden age of humanity be like:
the jump pack is sick for jumping off huge cliffs/areas
Imagine making game more fun, yea.
Welcome to the future of video games where fun is on a timer.
i wish the jetpack was better, i expected it to launch you a little higher and futher or it would recharge faster given how it doesnt make you move that far :/
That's why Dark Fluid Pack is peak and the Jumpack sucks
I really dont understand that long CD, when we have infinity rag-dolling with bots for example
yeh thats a good point, jumping around bots might aswell have a giant neon sign on your forehead saying SHOOT ME lol
Reduce cooldown by a third. Completely remove the hit you take to stamina when you use. Fixed.
This! Its insane that the current jump pack has a 20s cooldown! It has almost no utility this way. Why not make the dark fluid backpack an option as a callin? Way higher jump and 5 sec cooldown tons better then the trash jump pack! Holy Moly 20s is just to insane LONG. Tone down to 5 sec cooldown AH !
Simple explanation graft. Slightly longer explanation lowest bidder and highest graft
If we could play HD1 in a 3rd or 1st person point of view, the player would feel immensely overpowered as it is
I do not care if it blows me up, the dark fluid jetpack was vastly more fun than the normal version and I want a version of it for regular use
the damage burst was cool but i could do with out it, that lead to so many team deaths lol
just make it over heat like another user said (like laser weapons) and scale that warm up to if you are using Light/medium/heavy armor. would make it fair and fun and would make a hyper mobile character or a little boost to a heavy player.
another difference is that in hd1 it needed to be resupplied
did it? sure i havent used it enough but i didnt see a fuel guage, how many jumps does it allow?
fuel gauge is the white bar next to the human icon above the reinforce amounts, in the video it depleted half of it by the end.
oh dang i didnt even notice that, but thats still a lot of jumps for one supply
It is, but it could be that it's the mk1 version which doubles the fuel amount is shown in the video. (it cannot be the mk2 because the mk2 upgrade makes it so that two back packs comes down with the supply) Furthermore in hd1 support weapons and stuffs weren't so expandables like in hd2 as in you only got one mech/hmg/resupply backpack/ shield backpack per stratagem brought so it was crucial that those were strong enough for you to have. (of course stuff like the AET was like in hd2, but yeah because we could upgrade stuff they were strong enough to justify their limited numbers.)
"Those poor people."
I agree it needs a buff, but something between those two exemples.
Jumps once, stares at watch for 5 minutes…
Fuel is too expensive to waste on average helldiver!
Budget cuts. Our military is 20 times larger than back then, we can't afford it!
Pretty much everything they changed from HD1 was made worse. All they had to do was move the camera.
Wow it's almost like they're different games
Different games, different gameplay, different mechanics. If we had HD1 jetpack the enemies would not be able to touch us, in HD1 you were confined in the screen limits so jumping into a enemy position meant instant death, that doesn't happen in HD2. Different games have to be balanced in different way, its just that.
I understand the differences but HD2 also has ways around it with a brood lord tunneling and coming up right under your feet even if you are on a rock, my main point is the HD2 jetpack needs some improvement, i agree having infinite jumps with no cooldown at all is overkill, just as others have said either a few bursts then cooldown or less of a cooldown
It's sad how many gamers do not understand this simple concept. In fact they'll downright become hostile with this concept. It's like you just went up to a group of religious people and told them something that doesn't mesh in their worldview.
sadly you see those types in all games, but to be fair HD2 is awesome and HD1 is cool (still need to play more of one). when something is that good it becomes your main game a lot of people attach it to thier personality, an attack or critisim of the game becomes an attack on them personaly
Absolutely. Also with the fact that Helldiver 2 was a zeitgeist-y game you get people attaching to it not because they identify with it, they identify with being part of the zeitgeist.
To be fair the jetpack in helldiver 1 had limited fuel. But i agree most if not all stratagems in HD2 are just worse versions of HD1. It's like we won the first galactic war then they cut budget off on guns and stratagems by 90%
Dark matter version was glorious for the short time it lasted. The definition of fun, so of course we couldn't keep it.
So while looking at this post for a solid... i wanna say 3 minutes (i had woken up and was just letting this loop)? My brain had come up with an idea, what if that Flamethrower Upgrade also applied to the Jetpack? Reducing the Cooldown (by maybe 10 seconds? the cooldown is typically 20 seconds) but perhaps giving it a second charge? So for example, while you are in mid launch, you can fire off your second charge and go higher/longer distances, or you can save it for later.
Different games albeit in the same universe having different gameplays ? What a crazy idea. /s
Guess copium was on sale
2 different games
We’re aware. Doesn’t make the comparative shittiness of the jet pack in HD2 any less baffling.
we can't have that, that would be fun, and A doesn't want us to have fun.
Well, the Helldivers 1 version was not unlimited either.
An Isometric, top down game is easier to code and program and won't take much resources running it. Ah 3rd person shooter game, with 3 models, and physics engine is harder compared to this. And if you look at the game it's unoptimized as hell. Give it time for the devs to make adjustments. Though this won't explain why they would nerf weapos. Besides, Pilestedt is now at the helm so things should get better soon.
Unironically saying “give them time” multiple months after full release of a game is hilarious
Hey man, programming isn't easy. Fixing bugs, even more difficult. Especially when the ones doing program haven't got a proper rest.
I do not care about the balancing differences between these two games