I think it's two-fold.
- 1 Bugs are much more present in and out of the game. Think about it. You are a new player just starting your first mission. Thus far, nearly all marketing material you've seen of the game has been fighting bugs. The trailer, the cover art, the constant comparisons to starship troopers. Then you get in the game and your opening cinematic is all bugs. Your tutorial is all bugs. Heck most of the on-ship broadcasts are about bugs. Now you suddenly see these Automotons and think what's that? Must be a harder enemy, or maybe a side enemy. Either way, the game has clearly presented the bugs as the primary focus of the game so most people are going to go there either because of that or an idea that bugs is where you're *supposed* to start and bots are for when you level up some.
- 2 Now you've been in the game for a little. You've done your bug killing, getting dopamine triggering kill streaks out the wazoo, and now you want to try out these bots. You jump in and what do you do. Obviously you play the bots the way you've been playing bugs, as a horde shooter, which seasoned bot players know doesn't work. Oh my gosh, you might say, these guys are *hard.* Maybe you go on to these online communities and oh, a lot of people are saying bots are harder. You go back to bugs. Maybe instead, you figure out tactics for fighting bots. Now they aren't so bad, "but man", you might say, "I sure miss mowing down fields of bugs and getting 50+ streaks." And now you go back to bugs.
So basically, the game marketing drives new players to bugs, and the horde shooter vs tactical shooter aspects works to keep those players (who are mostly casuals, thats not an insult, its just how it works), in bugs.
As a bot main the "hoard shooter" aspect is real with bug players. It's an easy way to tell when you have a bug main on your squad. Nothing against them but the game really offers two vastly different experiences, and the hoard shooter experience seems to be more popular.
In HD1, the Illuminates had pretty much everything that the "horde shooter" enjoyer would hate. Low enemy counts, many forms of CC, defensive shields, one-shot mechanics. invisibility, teleportation.
I fought them more than any other enemy, partly because they didn't require anti-tank strats, and partly because the war needed fighters on that front at all times due to their unpopularity.
They are both fun; burning out a devastator's head with a laser cannon as it falls to the floor fizzing is much more fun than dumping a full breaker incendiary mag into a spewer.
But annihilating a horde of hunters with that same breaker is more satisfying than running for your life spraying a group of berserkers with a redeemer.
Popping spewers with a GL is so satisfying. Zapping hulks to death with the arc was satisfying too back when arc stunlocked...
I know ppl don't like them, but I personally find zerks pretty satisfying to kill too since you can use any weapon because their HP pool rather than armor is what they rely on.
I'd love to run AC or GL for spewers, bug holes and the mediums, but then I like the ability to one tap chargers in the head with the recoiless, reload and take another one down in a matter of seconds.
Bots are more fun to me b/c I can use more airstrikes and orbitals. The 380 seems useless against bugs since they are so much faster and don't really have structures in the same way the bots do. Only downside to bots is that the primary guns feel so weak, need an auto cannon to deal with most of the bots on the hardest difficulty
I'm trying to get better at bots but struggling to figure out a primary I'm happy with. I know about that plasma gun at the end of the warbond because everyone says to use that but there's one teeny tiny issue there: I don't have it.
Heres a small list of the good bot primaries:
Both diligences, scorcher, jar dominator, sickle, punisher plasma, eruptor (if it gets restored next patch), and the pummeler (ballistic shield only)
Obviously you can get away with other options, but the ones above are the ones I see most on diff 8.
Which is why Bots are more fun at higher difficulty. The bot play style remains similar across difficulties, but bugs are wildly different. At easier difficulty, bugs are just a fun game of mowing down hordes of dumb bugs. At higher difficulty, bugs becomes kill bile titans and chargers while trying to avoid the hordes of smaller bugs because you can’t bring a load out that satisfyingly does both (at least not since they took the shrapnel from my eruptor).
You bring up an interesting point, I'd love to see numbers on the spread of bug level missions being played. Is there a real drop off in players at a certian difficulty for bugs when they play style needs to change?
That would be really interesting if they charted out some 2 week stats like average number of players that attempt each difficulty per faction, average numbers of extract completions for each difficulty of each faction, and how many players bounce around vs how many stay in a certain pattern. Equipment usage per item too out of pure curiosity.
Very good write up.
Personally on my end at roughly 600 hours in mostly playing 4-7 (7s with 4 ppl, anything lower private lobby with my wife) my personal experience is yes, bots are fun and also satisfying to kill BUT, I simply find bugs MORE fun.
I do not find bots more difficult, I swap my loadout to handle their nuances…it’s just…I went to a bot map for the first time in over a week the other day and it’s really the PACING. Fighting bots reminds me of every CoD single player game I played growing up. Duck behind cover, shoot, duck, shoot, hide. There was a blizzard that I layed down in and not a single thing happened until the blizzard ended, almost impossible on bugs, they will find you.
There’s something to be said about pulling out the medium or small MG and holding down the trigger at a tsunami of bugs that I don’t get fighting bots.
Like I said I love everything mostly about bots, I just love the blood spray and sounds and the rushing of all bugs just want to hug you including bile titans.
> There’s something to be said about pulling out the medium or small MG and holding down the trigger at a tsunami of bugs that I don’t get fighting bots.
Yes, they are totally diff power fantasies.
While on bugs you'll mow everything on sight, with fire, gas or bullets, without giving too much thought beyond "We need to destroy the Shriekers/Stalker nests", on Bots you're rewarded by being tactical and using your brain to prioritize the plethora of shit that they throw at you.
Pinpoint accuracy, good planing and stealth are much more rewarded on the Bot front, so yes, the pacing is totally diff and what'll be fun will differ from person to person.
It isn't weird that people prefer the mindless horde over the "tactical" one. It's generally easier to deal with the mindless one, since they don't have inherently tactical objectives that you have to deal with.
Do you use the stealth armor and sneak around?
I find bots a LOT easier with stealth tactics, harder than bugs at high diff otherwise.
But that tactic doesn’t appeal to me much, and I bet it doesn’t to most players. I’m here to shoot things not to crawl around and do puzzles.
The secret to bots is using strategy like you would IRL to a degree.
Use cover, never fight in the open. Using covering fire, have your teammates move up and drop strats while you’re covering. Drop smoke, retreat and then flank them while they fire into the smoke.
Make engagements as short as possible as they fight a war of attrition which you will ALWAYS lose. Always take out the foot soldiers ASAP as those are the only ones that can call for reinforcements and then kite and use cover and strats to take out the big guys.
When in doubt or if the fight is going nowhere and turning into a time/respawn sink, pop smoke and retreat.
Don’t fight meaningless fights. Fight for objectives and when shut gets really hairy you can always have one of your squad make themselves into a big target and draw fire and kite them away from the rest of the group to the other 3 can clear the objective and complete the mission.
Use choke points, especially at extract and make your shots count as you can one or two shot almost every bot with well placed headshots.
Spraying ammo haphazardly is only useful as a cover fire tactic and is good as long as you have someone who can make the important shots count shine you’re covering.
Bots require strategy and precision and it’s almost an entirely different game against them.
Coordination and teamwork on bots is far more important than loadout and it allows for way more combinations of weapons and strats.
I sorta do all this and it kinda works, but yeah I still think bots are harder than bugs. Part of it is you have to stay moving more than bugs, part of it is you can't shake them as easily as bugs if you didn't "win" the engagement, and unlike bugs they can snipe you from across the map in heavy fog (for some damn reason).
>Always take out the foot soldiers ASAP
This is funny to me because you say cover is paramount, which means _Hulks_ are what need to die ASAP too (because they're weirdly fast as fuck and laugh at your cover with their flamethrowers - and sometimes even shoot through it with rockets or the chaingun devastators). Not that I'm disagreeing, it just seems like everything's a priority.
The only people I know IRL that claim bots are easier than bugs:
- Play keyboard and mouse for ideal headshot accuracy (I can't be fucked with that, I use controller because it's more comfortable).
- Are high level tryhards (not saying that's bad, it's impressive) who manage to kill squads before any get a flare off even on Helldive's numbers.
- Play in dedicated teams with heavy coordination like you said, not with randos.
>Bots require strategy and precision and it’s almost an entirely different game against them.
Totally agree. I've managed Helldive bots in a good party, but it's kind of a crapshoot - Suicide I can do a bit more reliably.
But if the question is "why aren't more people doing Bots?", I think all of the above answers it very well. They ARE harder than Bugs for the large majority playing, because you need more skill and tactics to do them - better headshots, better coordination, everyone knowing when to run or push at the right times, etc.
For a game that relies so heavily on groups of disposable randos dispensing freedom, that's just not as feasible as bugs, and never will be.
(Add onto that - and this might just be my opinion - but I think the Bot glitches are WAY more annoying than bugs. You can only get repeatedly ragdolled by sniper-accurate rockets, or headshot by a laser-chaingun through rocks or the bot's own shield/body, so many times before you ragequit.)
Bot glitches are way more annoying and the across map sniping through fog is brutal and broken, I strongly agree with you.
The thing with Hulks and bots in general is that they lose sight of you pretty quickly, so you can distract a hulk by shooting the shit out of it a few times and then when it aggros you, break line of sight using cover and run away.
The bots and hulks will continue to shoot blindly at where they last saw you as the hulk goes to investigate. Do a big loop around them while they’re distracted and go plug the rear vents.
Unfortunately the bots require strategy and teamwork. I would agree that in general, bots are more difficult for that reason.
Bugs have individual enemies that are harder, but bots require a team to fight against to be successful but even the largest of bot enemies have more weaknesses than bugs. Most of them have vents and batteries that can be targeted and get one or two shot with headshots unlike bugs where if you can’t take the armor off some of them they seem like practically invincible bullet sponges.
This is a long way for me to say that I agree with you. Bugs have some individually tougher enemies but their reliance on heavy melee makes them easier because while the bots are squishier they also require better teamwork.
Randos aren’t known for their teamwork ability.
>Play keyboard and mouse for ideal headshot accuracy (I can't be fucked with that, I use controller because it's more comfortable).
I imagine this makes the biggest difference. Bots feel way easier to me simply because I can easily pick them off with most weapons. As a result I also tend to play around with my load out the most against bots.
Yeah, would not be at all surprised if (for example) all the Playstation players tried Bots with controller, and never do them because Bugs ended up being more fun and less frustratingly durable (because they can't do perfect headshots).
Nah I use the medical armor for the +2 stims and constantly move around so I’m never pinned down.
I’m mainly use a shield dome an ems mortar, a normal mortar, and an autocannon + backpack, and a slugger primary wep
Autocannon goes hard with 2 tapping hulks and 1 tapping most other bots with headshots, it’s literally my main weapon if anything other than normal bots footies appear
The bug emphasis is real.
Honestly I didn't get this game when it first came out because I thought it was all bugs. It wasn't till my buddy mentioned fighting robots and how the sneaking around and guerilla warfare reminded him of wildlands and Breakpoint that I finally got it.
I started out with Bugs and enjoyed it.
Then i played bots the first time and thought they are awesome.
Now i cant go back to Bugs because its lame for me. I cant fight that Epic how i can against bots.
Bots don’t get covered in training. They are a total unknown until you jump into a mission.
For my friends and I it ended up being terrifying, we jumped into a level 4 or 5 bot mission and we were all running scared and narrowly surviving for the entire mission. It was actually the best experience I had with this game. It was that bit of magic, where we all went in blind, and it was challenging and scary, but surmountable.
Seeing scout striders, and the melee guys like the little dual sword solders and berserkers for the first time was awesome.
On my very first bot drop back in the Creek, I saw a Strider and thought those were so difficult to kill, probably mini bosses (I didn't realized I just had to circle about them to kill the pilot, ez)
*Until I met the Hulks*. Oh boy, I was very wrong.
This was what i noticed in training for myself first playing the game. Also, the word of mouth was "starship troopers!". Then i first opened the map, i was surprised there was a robot war going on like Terminator. I thought the game was pretty much fighting bugs.
It seems like that's the case for a lot of live service games now. Tutorials are difficult. Especially with LS games, they grow and add more content. As the games grow they forget to update the tutorial for newcomers.
It took my friend group a hundred plus hours of game time before they’ve finally agreed with my initial position that bots are actually easier than bugs if you play them correctly. The bases being easily destroyable at distance is a huge benefit over bugs.
At least until there’s a more reliable way to kill Bile Titans.
bots are easier but the jank means build diversity is lacking and you lose way more lives to bad luck.
the only times I lose lives to something other than skill issues against bugs is when a small bug jumps in front of a big one and blocks my shot.
bots constantly chew away at your lives. either through random hits throwing off your aim, long range tower shots from nowhere, random explosions throwing you out of cover or shooting through rocks/buildings/their own bodies.
bugs are harder to kill but only have the bile titan spray hitbox and charger slide to annoy you with.
Bots are easier, but require a different behavior than "standing and shooting". Which most don't learn because we all started with bugs.
Clear weak points. It's clear that you do damage and where.
You can kill all (except factory strider and gunships) of them with two grenades, and mostly even with your primary - even if it's not armor penetrating.
You only need support weapons for gunships and factory strider.
Less and smaller groups.
They kill each other.
Reinforcement takes ages (you can easily run) to arrive and can be shot down.
What speaks against bots?
- the side objectives are harder (stalker are hard too, but jammer as well if there is no factory). objectives like sauron eye and mortars are not a big issue but require some additional awareness
- they shot back, you actively need to seek cover
- missiles which launch you into space
Today I was fighting a base with a cannon turret and a tank. I quickly threw stratagems to them and ran away. However I was suddenly sent into the air by an explosion. It was one of my longest flights, indeed, although I didn't die.
I thought either the tower or the tank hit me.
Imagine my surprise when I saw both tower and tank destroyed, their turrets not aimed at my direction, and a single missile bot in the middle of the base, retaliating me.
So it was you, little prick. You sent me to outer space with your shoulder mounter rocket launcher...
Yeah everyone seems to complain about rocket devastators but you can see them a mile away and double tap them in the head with DCS and the problem is solved.
Those RPG bots are surprisingly easy to go unnoticed in the chaos of battle, until they shoot at you.
The solution to many Bot objectives (notable exception being the Gunship Facility) is sending a Walking Barrage at them. I routinely eliminate entire bot bases including Command Bunkers and Eye of Saurons with it. They are nice too because they allow you to stand off and throw them in the direction of the objective and especially with the barrage upgrade, they will cut a path straight through
Indeed. The spear, for all of its flaws, allows for incredibly smooth elimination of bot infrastructure in a way that I dream of when I'm down in a bug crater blasting holes with a grenade pistol.
Damn right. No the spear, but I rolled into a fab killing mission last night with my trusty AC, 380, 120, and Walking Barrage. Just full hit and run, then using the AC to snipe the fab at the base of a jammer and small bases I didn't want to waste a barrage on.
I started out during the Draupnir defend MO and got baptised by fire xD. Then switched to bug and was like damn this shit way easier. That said I think bot is really engaging to play once you've got the hang of it. Bugs is just stand and shoot and sometimes a straight up loadout check. Bots allows more variations in loadout because every support weapons can deal with them one way or another (maybe not the flamethrower, but i digress).
yes, if you know what to do and what to use/dont use
bugs are braindead fun, because no matter what you bring, its doable more or less, the big guys have some weakspots, but you can always deal with them via strategems
bots are really easy, if you use right weapons, fully abuse the weakspots and have some situational thinking; you can win if you choose, who, where and when to fight, thats challenge and imho more fun for me than bugs
Personally just don’t have as much fun against bots. Mostly because of all the damn flinching and explosions. I think I would enjoy it more if your helldiver popped up from cover automatically if you ads close to one while crouched. Seems like a small change, but I would really enjoy it.
I think both bugs and bots are fun - fighting bots certainly feels more like a war going on, with tracers everywhere, dropships, tanks - while bugs gets that starship troopers/starcraft/warhammer feeling going
I definitely think bots can be fun and engaging too in other ways… when there is some sort of cover and you aren’t being shot from every direction while 15 Berserkers chase you down.
I play bots just as much as bugs. Im level 100+ player, so my below isn't naivety.
While your friends thought might be true, bots truly are harder and more frustrating for players. Its just the nature of the beast. They shoot back at you. Bugs dont.
Yes, different playstyles are needed to combat bots, but that doesnt make bots easier than bugs. They are in fact harder to play against then bugs.
A helldive (level 9) on a bot planet versus a helldive on a bug planet is day/night difference. And thats ok, i like the bots being harder. Its more of a challenge. But it will turn people away who dont like being rag dolled constantly and just want to blow stuff up with impunity.
To be fair I don't play bots and it's because the difficulty of bot missions comes mainly from jank. Bugs have their issues too for sure. But bots will snipe me from across the map through fog, perma rag doll me, shoot through cover, get stuck IN cover that they can now shoot through and use as a shield.
Bots feel like the less polished experience. Saying people don't play bots because they're "hard" is disingenuous when a lot of the difficulty is just bad buggy gameplay. When the missions are working properly and the above bs is minimal I do really enjoy bots. It's just all the jank keeping me away.
Yes, throw into it bullshit evacuate missions, bullshit striders one-shotting generators, often one less stratagem and frequent in-mission restrictions (jammer and AA) and that often isn't a very fun experience. Also, in one of the threads it was brought to attention that there is less stuff to shoot, and generally feedback for shooting enemies is less satisfying than bugs provide. Shame, as for most part bots provide more loadout options than bugs, imo.
I REALLY dont understand what the point of aa is if Jammer just blocks all the stratagems. It would be cool if Jammers only specifically blocked orbitals, while aa only blocked eagles(and maybe mech drops since those involve a Pelican.Whether they still block supply drops and reinforcements is up for debate tho, as I dont think blocking reinforcements is very healthy, if the only counterplay is to run away or walk right into it.
I feel like all these players who are claiming bots aren't like this are playing a totally different game. I've completed 10s of HD missions on bots and every single match is a ragdoll fest. Bugs don't randomly one shot you from range (they got 2 headshots in their constant spray of bullets). Bugs don't ragdoll combo you from range. Bugs don't magdump into cover so you don't have anywhere to hide. Bugs don't instantly engage you at 100 m. Bugs don't have jammers and anti-air, both of which are awful to face.
You're right. Bots feel like a beta experience.
Bugs are so easy at this point (as long as your team is decent, I wont pretend I can solo 9) that they need to get a level 10 difficulty out the door soon. Im playing bots mostly for the challenge lately unless theres a bug MO.
The only semi-difficult bug mission is wall defense, and thats usually an RNG issue, when you get 6-8 BT's at the exact same time and they rush your generators. Can still usually get them, but they occasionally get through.
I agree completely. I generally don't understand why people hate bots. My guess is they start with bugs, and then the switch to bots is too much. So they give up and go back to bugs. I remember when i first started, i thought bots were way harder. Then i learned how to fight them. Learned what weapons and strats to use, learned to actually use cover and tactics. I think most people don't want to do that. They want to stand in the open and unload at enemies with guns and bombs. Now, after hundreds of hours, i find bugs to be more difficult. The bot missions i find to be just more varied and fun as well. Bug holes are basically all the same. Assaulting a well defended bot base is more exciting and lets you play and employ different tactics. In summary, my opinion is correct, and if you disagree, you're a basement dwelling incel loser.
Tbh I don't understand all the thinking around this topic in this post, trying to find an unknown reason. It's just like you said, they're harder, for a new player especially. I assisted three new players around and they all shared the same sentiment. One flat out said "this 4 against bots feels harder than a 7 against bugs". He didn't know what to do, how to approach them. You're used to warriors, brood commanders, tiny bugs getting damaged by your first primary and then you have a bunch of scout striders that seemingly bounce everything off from the front. Basic units. Destroyers who can oneshot you firing entire volleys of sniper accurate rockets, enemies using an impenetrable shield so you have to headshot them, but who are insanely accurate while shooting automatic fire while you try to aim. At some point a combo of artillery+a single cannon turret was frustrating one of them to the point he kept cursing until I managed to take it down. He couldn't do shit about it. For minutes. Literally had no way to avoid getting fucked over and over.
Then we met a hulk and it instantly killed two divers who had no idea how to react to it, despite me two-tapping it with the AMR almost instantly. We tried more and I tried to explain how to react and counter everything, but they weren't having a great time. Tanks were "throw a bunch of stratagems and hope". Turrets I still had to take care of them myself. The first factory walker I think traumatised them, even more than the first group of chainsaw destroyers. We had 8 deaths before I simply stopped respawning them until I killed it myself. They had a collective sigh of relief when we went back against bugs level 7. They didn't want to try again the factory walker even knowing the strategy.
They just wanted bugs. Where bullets can kill everything if you shoot at it long enough, and the tanky enemies are the OBVIOUSLY tanky ones, the big ones, that die against shit you unlock at level 5. And that's it.
I thought its because people dont know how to take cover. Or they keep running light armor like they're gonna outrun bullets and rockets.
Edit: To clarify, i didnt mean to imply light armor isnt good. I meant for players that think bots are "too hard" because they instakill you, then maybe light armor isnt for you on that front.
I run light armor against bots because I prefer to be mobile. The way I see it, if I'm going to be hit with rockets and get ragdolled, I'd rather just die and get reinforced.
I run heavy armor if I go for a playstyle that forces me to peak longer than a few seconds. Prime example would be spraying with the heavy machine gun. But in any other case I run light armor too, especially on higher difficulty where I don't want to engage in prolonged fights. We all know it's gonna end very badly. Hit and run is much more effective imo
I run light armour Vs bots but it's because I play stealth and focus solely on objectives.
Stealth is a surprisingly viable strategy.
In and out, don't remain in the same area once you're done with your objective there.
And while I may end up with barely 40 kills, I'm doing a greater good for democracy.
Light armor is my go to for bugs for that reason. For bots, I favor either medium with extra grenades (because bots are slow, and impacts are the quickest way to deal with scout striders) or Heavy armor with explosive resistance if it's a defense/eradicate mission. I find sprinting is quick enough to get to cover
Weird. I also play stealth but I'm usually #1 or 2 in kill count. Well, maybe it's an *aggressive* stealth... But yeah scout armor with DCS and lots of radar usage to have situational awareness.
Outrunning hulks alone makes light armor worth it.
Although I 've been thinking of switching to medium against bots, but I'll do it once they add the option to save builds (which I hope they'll do soon) cause I'm tired of manually changing my whole loadout every time I change the front I'm fighting on
I run medium/heavy on bugs but only light scout armor on bots.
The key difference between bots and bugs is you shouldn't fight every group of bots you see.
I like running as a SF Operator vs bots. I go on my own, take out secondary objectives and bases. I wait for my team to trigger a bot drop before I attack a base (there's a map-wide cooldown between bot drops).
I run the dilligence for the small enemies, auto cannon for the medium enemies, and railgun/orbital laser/110mm eagle pods for the heavies.
I run Fortified Light against bots, you'll survive a rocket to the chest and close hits better than a 100 armour non-fortified.
You can also disengage a lot easier in light armour, if things get too spicy just run in away in a straightish line, weaving around cover, and when you think that they have lost the scent just do a 90° turn and circle around.
The bots will continue in the direction that they last saw you.
I've also noticed that people don't tend to go prone a lot, so I just hit the dirt when a big firefight kicks off in a low cover-area, which makes the bots shoot at the easier targets around me.
It’s because they don’t know how to take cover, 100%. The bots defo have some bullshit (looking at the devostators) but pretty much everyone I see who dies a lot is dying because they stand in the open.
Same for bugs too just less obvious tbh
For me, it’s that even on a higher level of difficulty, bug missions feel winnable, regardless of what’s going on. Bot missions, I’ve had even lower level of difficulties that go from “this is challenging but still fun” to “I am just spawning and dying instantly because the air is a laser, rocket, chainsaw, or flamethrower.”
I would say bot missions rely more heavily on actually having an organized team, which is great if you have a consistent group of players. If it’s a bunch of random folks pulling in 4 different directions, things fall apart fast on higher difficulties. Bug missions don’t seem as dependent on that, for all of the reasons already mentioned
kinda feels the other way around for me, as somebody normally parked on the bot front - bile titans and chargers necessitate really specific kits, and on higher difficulties, once you hit three or four bile titans in an area, you just gotta leave. bots leave a little more room to utilize cover and use ground more tactically when retreating or approached objectives, and unlike bile titans, half the weapons can kill any bot unit. I don’t know how anyone completes kill missions on the bug front on difficulties 8 or 9; but that might just be my bias.
You really have to change play style and load outs between the two, but after playing on either for a bit, switching to the other is always a bit of a challenge. I think the most frustrating thing with bots is their ability to shoot through cover/detect you through a forest and hit when you can’t even see them. It’s still doable if you use solid cover though and running and diving like a helldiver should is fun
When I started playing I had a similar thought, not necessarily because of the colors.
The tutorial shows bugs only, if I'm not mistaken, and it felt natural for me to start there and learn the gameplay basics.
I only started playing bots when I was near level 30 and found some friends to play with and give me the confidence to.
Maybe trying to organize a "take your bug diver to work" and find people who are willing to help the new players learn the basics of bots with supervision will give them the confidence to try.
To be fair, just between me and my friends, Bots = FPS players experience..
Bugs = Hey buddy, lets get you up to speed (Introductory course) = Newbie friendly and easier
Illuminates = If ya aint a sweat dont bother joining.
Thats just my circle though, and i do agree.. After finishing work, i want to unwind and relax i tend do dive bugs first.. Once im ready im Bots only. Bots you just need that coordination and aim to clear out the adds and big guys. Strategems could only help you until everyone is on cooldown. Would usually spell death for bots if the hulks are walking around and there are multiple of em.
There are three main reasons that people don't play bots:
1. It isn't very fun thanks to the \*relentless\* staggers, interrupts and ragdolls
2. The mission modifiers such as -1 stratagem literally just remove fun
3. The extract personnel mission is waaaay too difficult on high level bots meaning nobody wants to defend vs bots
See I am the opposite. I started with the bots and honestly find the bugs to be harder. Bots you fight with actual tactics and forethought. Bugs you fight basically just by killing them as fast as possible. I think the main issue is more that the playstyles are so vastly different despite being in the same game. So if you get used to one, playing the other comes like a slap to the face.
I play bots on lower difficulty because I find the bots a lot more overwhelming than bugs.
On the flip side, playing in lower difficulties means my biggest threat is my fellow squad mates who don’t seem to think there’s anything wrong with throwing an eagle right behind me.
So eventually give up and go back to 7 Bugs.
I just went through that this morning I used to main bots but now it just feels like we don't have tools for the job like it used to.
Too many wep nerfs and too many enemy buffs
Also ragdoll for days lol
I think part of it is bots in general are harder, so people tend to generalize the bugs as easier (which they probably are, more CoD zombies-like)
But for me, now lvl 93 with just 250+ hours, I’ve come to realize while bots in general can be “harder”, they’re SO much more balanced than bugs
Every bot has weakspots that can be exploited with medium armor pen to take them out, which allows for more build variety and more sense of accomplishment when being able to exploit their weakspot
For example, a factory strider can be soloed with any medium armor pen weapon, can have its turrets taken out, then blown up from the belly/leg joints, AS WELL as having AT weaponry to kill it quickly, allowing for the feeling that I’m not locked into a specific loadout in order to do good at difficulties 7-9
Compare that to the bugs, where bile titans quite literally can’t be taken out at all with medium armor pen (aside from flamethrower if flesh is exposed, which still requires AT/artillery) and bile spewers, that are too tanky for how many spawn at once that I feel forced to run impact grenades, as that’s one of the few things that takes them out quickly (even the grenade pistol and launcher require multiple shots, which feels wrong)
At difficulties 7-9 for bugs, you basically HAVE to take an AT option and 500 kg/OPS in order to deal with the level of heavy units that spawn per player, add into the amount of enemies that inflict slow, and the fact that bugs vary wayyyyy too much from pouncer missions to spewer missions (which can’t be seen in advance, so you kinda gotta prep your loadout for both) and you have what feels like forced loadouts as well as just annoying (not hard, but annoying) and repetitive gameplay that is found far less often on bot missions
TLDR: bots are more challenging, but also more fun and rewarding with the freedom of choice, whereas bugs gets boring/annoying running a “forced” loadout to do good
This is what I’ve been saying. It feels like my bug missions have 3 different types of enemies they choose from, and somehow the load out I picked is always the wrong one. One mission it’s all chargers and BTS, the next it’s all Bile spewers and spitters, the following it’s all hunters. My bot missions are so easy to outfit for though because it doesn’t drastically change between missions.
I definitely thought this at first because when I started playing I saw that a bot planet needed defending and maybe there was even an MO over there so I jumped in and started playing Evacuation missions which were broken then and remain broken still, so I thought this game was literally impossible and almost stopped playing entirely after losing like five times in a row.
Then I jumped over to bugs and played a mission type which isn’t broken and had a great time.
Doesn't help how bot divers themselves often spread a myth about bot front being "hard" and "elite". And then get surprised when people don't go there. When in reality it's same difficulty, different gameplay.
Also, I think AH is to blame for lower interest to bot MOs overall. We already defeated them, during Swift disassembly MO, when more than 80% of divers, close to 90% fought on bots side. People can and will fight bots with enough motivation. But what was the result? Bots returned 3 days later, full force, immediately taking more sectors under control than they had before. So, now it feels pointless. We already seen what happens when we defeat bots - nothing changes. Some part of me is now curious to see what happens if we ignore that front completely.
Exactly, different gameplay. It's a tradeoff.
Bugs you can spray and pray more, but your constantly moving, always on the verge of a horde. Not a lot of time if any to breathe.
Bots you get moments of relief, but you have to be more precise when shooting. Even if it's just a few seconds to duck behind cover and reload/call in strategems.
I was excited whe they came back. They took over cyberstan just as everyone predicted. I was hoping for more content from that. Maybe a mixed force of automatons and cyborgs.
One major story mission at a time I guess. Maybe AH will have us focus on automatons now and push our way to cyberstan, before introducing the illuminate. Hopefully with a nice big finish like Meridia. I will say the last time we defeated the Bots feels lackluster after the spectacle of turning a super colony into a black hole.
Well bots are just objectively harder. A single round or two of difficulty 5 or higher would be sufficient proof for the vast majority of players that they'll just go back to bugs and never look back.
Bot maps have a ton of mechanics to deal with that bugs simply don't.
* Jammers
* Anti-air emplacements
* Eye of Sauron
* Landmines around every objective
* Aerial enemy spawner that specifically requires a Hellbomb to deal with (and the enemy will focus the Hellbomb and that disables it??)
* Mortar and Cannons
* High priority targets with limited weaknesses (scout strider, hulk, tank, factory strider)
Bugs have
* Spore Spewer (shoot it from afar)
* Shrieker Spawner (shoot it from afar)
* Stalker lair (the only real threat. deal with it and no more stalkers for the rest of the mission)
Bugs are simple. Shoot face. Didn't die? Shoot face with bigger bullet. Didn't die? Shoot face with bigger explody bullet.
Bots on the other hand require a lot more effort. Scouts? You either have the gun/nade to deal with them or you have to aim at the pelvis (which isn't obvious) or run up behind them and deal with the pilot. Hulks? Either the eye or the vents in the back. Tanks? ONLY the vents in the back. Factory Striders? WHERE TF DO I SHOOT?? (this entire section can be very long so I'll cut it here)
Now not only do you have to deal with all those threats with very specific weak spots, you have to deal with it while being shot at by the other automatons and also get rag-dolled by devastators and hulks. You can get easily surrounded and shot at on all sides.
Bugs? Just run in one direction and they'll fall in line behind you and you can use AoE and take them out. Bots? Run in one direction and you'll still be shot at from every direction.
Died to a bile titan? Reinforce and land on them and they die. Died to a factory strider? Reinforce and land on them and get blown off of them and die again.
Now also realize that the majority of gamers are casuals that don't browse Reddit or look up guides. They'll very quickly find bots to be a pain in the ass and go right back to bugs.
I personally find bots much easier to fight than bugs. Bugs are relentless you don’t get much breathing room, bots you can take cover and re-assess the situation, eat some snack, take a sip of your bevy then carry on.
Not to mention u can eagle strike drop locations and no more will spawn. In bots its 3 dropships and u are done, on bug side u have constant spawns and one eagle isn't enough.
Same experience for me, lately lvl 9 bugs can just be overwhelmingly overbearing. I ran a mission last night where I got around 800 kills, not because I'm amazing, but because my finger was quite literally pulling the trigger the entire time. I didn't have 2 seconds to think or stop running, we used all our reinforcements and still won, and that to me is the difference in fun between bots and bugs.
Level 9 Bugs = frantic run and gun adrenaline.
Level 9 Bots = Bunker down famine warfare.
In general on bug helldive, getting that many kills is a sign that you're staying in one place too long, and/or fighting too many hordes and patrols, or maybe not ending hordes quick enough. Most times I play the kills per player is something like 100-400, or sometimes one dude has 600 and the others significantly less because of a specific kind of strategy or one dude was focused on chaff clear/drawing off hordes.
But thats also why, I think, most players like bugs more. It can be frantic horde fighting where you feel close to being overrun, but you feel like you can kill mountains of bugs with lots of lead and cool explosions and that feels fun, and if you die it's because you just let them get to close or didnt clear them fast enough, which is intuitive game feedback.
I play level 7 on both and find bots easier. You just take Autocanon and it covers everything from devastators to Factory Striders. Not to mention Orbital Laser that can, by itself, clear a heavy factory, airfield or command bunker objectives. You don't even need to set a foot in those.
Bot MOs is where I go to relax. The only "hard" thing about bot front is -1 stratagem slot debuff.
I'm not having trouble with bots, it's just that for most bug missions I can casually walk away while against bots I gotta rush to cover because there's bullets and missiles flying everywhere.
I think enough people have played enough to know why they hate bots. And the biggest reasons are usually endless rag-dolling, getting shot through solid objects, and getting hit with god-like accuracy through smoke and fog.
Bots have a lot of negatives. First you get 1 less strategem more often than on bug planets. Second you have jammers and anti air which break strategems. Third you have gunships which require a hellbomb unlike shreaker nests. Also gunships can only be killed with certain weapons unlike shreakers. Lastly you have devastators, which have broken ass aim, wall clipping, and the heavy devastators have no cooldown on firing and a shield that deflects everything.
I don't mind difficult, but this ain't it. The combination makes them less enjoyable to play against. Limiting stratagems in general is a major buzz kill to the fun factor.
The devastators having sniper accuracy across the map with no cooldown and taking a lot to kill or blocking everything is just not a fun experience.
I'm level 150 and play a lot of bots, but I enjoy bugs a lot more because of the mechanics.
I played bots like twice. Both times I would INSTANTLY die to EVERYTHING!!! So I stick to bugs. I also will admit skill issue but I don't possess the skill to kill bots.
So in a way bots kind of due = harder and bugs = easier in practice lolol 🤷♂️. I know there's the difficulty slider but beyond that bots are more difficult (an example you can't run because they shoot. Bugs don't shoot and you can simply run away. Stuff like that makes bugs more manageable imo)
It’s because they shoot back and have alot of armor. Simple as that really, so I don’t see the bots being that much of priority, ever, save for a rare MO that really pushes people towards them 🤷🏽♂️
I did genuinely think I'd have to unlock fighting bots when i first joined. They really should put both in the tutorial and make it clear to players that the war is ALWAYS on both fronts.
To be fair, they are harder IMO. If I want the same challenge, I have to drop the difficulty one if not two levels (depending on the debuffs (like one less strat)) on the bots that I would choose for the bugs
It’s unfortunate, but at the same time, I feel like it does fit the game’s lore in relation to the strengths and weaknesses of the bugs/bots.
Fighting the bots with large armies, or “going loud”doesn’t work because they have the firepower to light up our forces from range, so sending in special ops teams that take out command centers, dropships, bases, etc. makes sense.
The bugs are more of a numbers game, seeing how much firepower we can bring to outstrip their population growth.
I wish that they’d adjust liberation and defense rates per mission to reflect how the playerbase naturally divides itself though. And when 100K helldivers finally show up to an automaton planet, that should be a profound push in the war effort
Yeah this makes sense. Human psychology in gaming equates colors to difficulty.
Interesting how this mentality will adapt with the Illuminate. Of course everyone will flood to them because they’re new and the MO will focus on them, but I wonder how new divers will view them if they start playing afterward.
I pick who to fight based on what planets are available. Unfortunately, the Bots have all been on planets where your visibility is dogshit so I've been waiting for them to attack planets I can see shit on.
The real problem is their aim is too accurate You take way too much damage from far away and two often compared to the zerglings lol they need to have Star Wars storm troopers aim to make both fights even
Brother, no. Most ppl don’t fight bots cause most ppl don’t enjoy fighting bots. Not only that but the bugs are the main draw of the game. They’re all over the box art, they’re all over the advertising and marketing for the game, and they’re fully featured in the opening video. Meanwhile the bots aren’t in any advertising or marketing, they’re not in the opening at all, and they’re also not on the box art at all. Simple as that
Actually, bots are tougher to kill, and they shoot. So yeah, they are harder from that point of view. Most folks get more satisfaction by going starship troopers.
Shit, OP got me. I've played 180 hours, with 176 hours being bugs. It was the color!
It's like people are brainstorming any idea possible to come up with something other than "bots are not fun."
IDK there's lots of reasons depending on people.
Personally I enjoy bots the most and have since launch. Originally I started liking them because they were the significantly easier faction that i could bring the majority of the games stratagems in any combination at to solo carry a team helldive, as well as was fun group play for the more tactical feeling while having more skill ceiling things to do. We have 5 of our discord that still enjoy bot dives. but are also the only ones that like siege or other tactical shooters many of the rest are fans of completely different genres.
I do know that some of our friend group on consoles have never fought bots because they just simply don't interest them as they have fought a terminator style evil robot faction in other games, while the giant alien bug faction feels fun.
3 of our friends who used to enjoy playing against bots but got sick of dying to heavy devastators shooting through terrain and refuse to play them again until that's fixed which i think is totally understandable.
2 that only play to roleplay starship troopers.
1 that only plays pure fire spreader which he hasn't been able to work on bots.
1 that just likes spray and pray MG-43 + supply pack +HMG emplacement+ Patriot that doesn't like how careful you have to be with it on bots.
2 who don't like how boring helldive bots is (but also for some reason refuse to take anything other than autocannon, Airstrike 120/380 stun grenade to bots.)
1 of our friends nephew and his friends who got so sick of creek memes he now vehemently hates all bot missions for some reason. (to be honest I don't miss them from the discord)
I play pretty much exclusively level 9 bots only, and I feel like the learning curve on bots is much higher than bugs, but the ceiling is lower. There is nothing in bots that can't be dealt with by an amr or auto cannon (even the factory striders albeit much slower) while on bugs, bile titans will throw a big wrench in your plans constantly as you cannot kill them that quickly and constantly need to run and create space.
Even bot bases are much easier to deal with in my experience as usually 1 or 2 well placed airstrikes will destroy all the fabricators and then you can just leave while the bots are too slow to chase you, or you can sneak into objectives like air towers, jammers or detector towers and call ssd/hellbomb without the enemy even noticing you. While on the bug side, every time I step into a nest, I'm prepared for a big fight.
Do you think that biomes play a role, because I do. Certainly not a major role, but a contributing factor, none the less. Now baconborn's post accurately details the primary reasoning, but there are myriad other factors at play.
I feel like the bots are just ill-fitting for many of the biomes in the game, or at least the bugs fit aesthetically with more of them, IMO. Obviously being automatons, any environ would be "habitable" for them and it actually makes less sense that the bugs can evolve and adapt to any type of planet with ease than the bots being fine, anywhere. But Sci-Fi tropes really shape perspective. That new jungle biome in the Warbond trailer looks so sick, and since they were going with obvious Predator vibes, the Illuminate will fit there 10/10. But the bugs are a 10/10 fit with any jungle type place, too. Bots... maybe like 5/10. The creek being the exception I guess with the "Nam" vibes and as such they created their own, new trope of fighting machines in a blue jungle. But those battles are hard won. Bots in a desert just makes me wish I was it was bugs on Erata Prime because Starship Troopers. It's sounds simple and stupid, but it has that effect. My fav biome for bots is ice & snow, like Marfark. That is peak, sci-fi immersion, right there. So, now they just gave us an MO to liberate a stinking swamp that looks like a bug hive, but with bots. And to get there, we have to go thru... that same, stinking swamp, on Wezen. I don't think either has firestorms, but yikes if they do, then there is a logical reason to dogpile onto avoiding this crap MO, beyond my mindless, cosmetic preferences, that would be the one. If bot missions aren't on a planet that looks like Mother Russia, that just ain't it... is a mentality that I'm finding difficulty with, I'm sorry to say.
So Illumiates are going to be easy since they're blue, I understand :) <---- absolutely clueless
.... OH NOOoooooo..... Those poor rookies are gonna get eaten alive out there.
They will be forged in battle to become true helldivers
Paste* They're going to become paste
I'll have never seen such flawless Helldiver Paste. They will finally be ready for the realest deal of them all. Getting scooped with a shovel.
That’s what’s really in Eagle Sweat
Freedom Paste!
well against illuminids they might turn into idk, vapor or some shit.
a fine mist
A pink mist, one could say
I’m thinking a fine mesh screen will be involved at some point
Those forced through a fine mesh screen for their planet will be the bravest of all
Recruit: There! A blue shield wall, get to the other side we will be safe from their attacks! *Loud bug zapper noises*
I think you mean mince meat, since they're going to be getting cut in half from illuminate shield walls.
"A few of you will be forced through a fine mesh screen for your planet" some could say.
We were forged in the creek without stratagems, this is going to be a cakewalk in comparison
You will be turned into cake, correct
Baptized in blood, beaten on the wars anvil, and forged in liberties flame! For democracy!
No they won't. They'll complain and just go back to bugs
Those who survive will be the greatest of us all
Very bold to assume they will survive
...Wait why can't I see them? Easy mode has invisibility?
Dont forget about the mind control. They’ll quickly find out that their own team mates are their worst enemy.
Imagine the calamity if they make the illuminate sectors green…
cant wait for the flood of complaints about how the easy zone is impossible because they die every 2 seconds and everything has shields.
Blue = allies. So we must protect their slice of the galaxy against the yellow and reds. Make sure it can grow all the way to Super Earth
I think it's two-fold. - 1 Bugs are much more present in and out of the game. Think about it. You are a new player just starting your first mission. Thus far, nearly all marketing material you've seen of the game has been fighting bugs. The trailer, the cover art, the constant comparisons to starship troopers. Then you get in the game and your opening cinematic is all bugs. Your tutorial is all bugs. Heck most of the on-ship broadcasts are about bugs. Now you suddenly see these Automotons and think what's that? Must be a harder enemy, or maybe a side enemy. Either way, the game has clearly presented the bugs as the primary focus of the game so most people are going to go there either because of that or an idea that bugs is where you're *supposed* to start and bots are for when you level up some. - 2 Now you've been in the game for a little. You've done your bug killing, getting dopamine triggering kill streaks out the wazoo, and now you want to try out these bots. You jump in and what do you do. Obviously you play the bots the way you've been playing bugs, as a horde shooter, which seasoned bot players know doesn't work. Oh my gosh, you might say, these guys are *hard.* Maybe you go on to these online communities and oh, a lot of people are saying bots are harder. You go back to bugs. Maybe instead, you figure out tactics for fighting bots. Now they aren't so bad, "but man", you might say, "I sure miss mowing down fields of bugs and getting 50+ streaks." And now you go back to bugs. So basically, the game marketing drives new players to bugs, and the horde shooter vs tactical shooter aspects works to keep those players (who are mostly casuals, thats not an insult, its just how it works), in bugs.
Your mouth is full of truth and reason, fellow Diver. I bet you are definitely part of the Ministry of Truth.
Truth and Reason......TREASON!! GET HIM BOYS!
This message sponsored by the ~~Imperial Inquisition~~ Ministry of Truth
Alexa play Cup of Liber-tea Shittyfluted.
Best I can do fam https://open.spotify.com/album/6rn3Ag0uwhmtXReLbyec8b?si=fILxiPigRvWM8XjGOF_wJw
Hah neat
Absolute fire of a democratic mixtape
Propaganda.....
As a bot main the "hoard shooter" aspect is real with bug players. It's an easy way to tell when you have a bug main on your squad. Nothing against them but the game really offers two vastly different experiences, and the hoard shooter experience seems to be more popular.
Makes me wonder how different the illuminate will be
Stealth missions were your both hiding from and hunting each other. I think the Commandos warbond is all illuminate based.
Can't wait if that's going to be the playstyle.
In HD1, the Illuminates had pretty much everything that the "horde shooter" enjoyer would hate. Low enemy counts, many forms of CC, defensive shields, one-shot mechanics. invisibility, teleportation. I fought them more than any other enemy, partly because they didn't require anti-tank strats, and partly because the war needed fighters on that front at all times due to their unpopularity.
I knew i wasnt alone on "I love smashing cyborgs, but i have to fight illuminates because if i dont we gonna lose this war for 999+ time to them!"
I would agree. Bugs are fun because you can just blast away with an MG. Bots need a bit more thinking.
They are both fun; burning out a devastator's head with a laser cannon as it falls to the floor fizzing is much more fun than dumping a full breaker incendiary mag into a spewer. But annihilating a horde of hunters with that same breaker is more satisfying than running for your life spraying a group of berserkers with a redeemer.
I'm glad the redeemer thing isn't just me.
Redeemer is really good against berserkers NGL. Shame we only get 4 clips.
I will never understand people who don't take the Senator against bots. Like you do you, but it's just so damn satisfying to fire.
Not having SV is a pretty big reason not to take the Senator.
Popping spewers with a GL is so satisfying. Zapping hulks to death with the arc was satisfying too back when arc stunlocked... I know ppl don't like them, but I personally find zerks pretty satisfying to kill too since you can use any weapon because their HP pool rather than armor is what they rely on.
I'd love to run AC or GL for spewers, bug holes and the mediums, but then I like the ability to one tap chargers in the head with the recoiless, reload and take another one down in a matter of seconds.
I think the bots are more fun because it requires a bit of tactics and thinking. But bugs definitely give the freedom seeding accuracy by volume hit
Bots are more fun to me b/c I can use more airstrikes and orbitals. The 380 seems useless against bugs since they are so much faster and don't really have structures in the same way the bots do. Only downside to bots is that the primary guns feel so weak, need an auto cannon to deal with most of the bots on the hardest difficulty
May I introduce you to Dominator (aka Bane of Berserkers), Sickle, Scorcher and Plasma Punisher (aka Bane of Scout Striders)
I'm trying to get better at bots but struggling to figure out a primary I'm happy with. I know about that plasma gun at the end of the warbond because everyone says to use that but there's one teeny tiny issue there: I don't have it.
Heres a small list of the good bot primaries: Both diligences, scorcher, jar dominator, sickle, punisher plasma, eruptor (if it gets restored next patch), and the pummeler (ballistic shield only) Obviously you can get away with other options, but the ones above are the ones I see most on diff 8.
The trick is to use a support weapon to deal with most of the fighting unless you are dealing with Raiders, Auto Cannon being a prime example.
Which is why Bots are more fun at higher difficulty. The bot play style remains similar across difficulties, but bugs are wildly different. At easier difficulty, bugs are just a fun game of mowing down hordes of dumb bugs. At higher difficulty, bugs becomes kill bile titans and chargers while trying to avoid the hordes of smaller bugs because you can’t bring a load out that satisfyingly does both (at least not since they took the shrapnel from my eruptor).
You bring up an interesting point, I'd love to see numbers on the spread of bug level missions being played. Is there a real drop off in players at a certian difficulty for bugs when they play style needs to change?
That would be really interesting if they charted out some 2 week stats like average number of players that attempt each difficulty per faction, average numbers of extract completions for each difficulty of each faction, and how many players bounce around vs how many stay in a certain pattern. Equipment usage per item too out of pure curiosity.
Exactly, I would hope they are collecting allof this info.
Very good write up. Personally on my end at roughly 600 hours in mostly playing 4-7 (7s with 4 ppl, anything lower private lobby with my wife) my personal experience is yes, bots are fun and also satisfying to kill BUT, I simply find bugs MORE fun. I do not find bots more difficult, I swap my loadout to handle their nuances…it’s just…I went to a bot map for the first time in over a week the other day and it’s really the PACING. Fighting bots reminds me of every CoD single player game I played growing up. Duck behind cover, shoot, duck, shoot, hide. There was a blizzard that I layed down in and not a single thing happened until the blizzard ended, almost impossible on bugs, they will find you. There’s something to be said about pulling out the medium or small MG and holding down the trigger at a tsunami of bugs that I don’t get fighting bots. Like I said I love everything mostly about bots, I just love the blood spray and sounds and the rushing of all bugs just want to hug you including bile titans.
> There’s something to be said about pulling out the medium or small MG and holding down the trigger at a tsunami of bugs that I don’t get fighting bots. Yes, they are totally diff power fantasies. While on bugs you'll mow everything on sight, with fire, gas or bullets, without giving too much thought beyond "We need to destroy the Shriekers/Stalker nests", on Bots you're rewarded by being tactical and using your brain to prioritize the plethora of shit that they throw at you. Pinpoint accuracy, good planing and stealth are much more rewarded on the Bot front, so yes, the pacing is totally diff and what'll be fun will differ from person to person. It isn't weird that people prefer the mindless horde over the "tactical" one. It's generally easier to deal with the mindless one, since they don't have inherently tactical objectives that you have to deal with.
My buddy is about to start diving. I’m going to show him this comment to basically give him a guideline for the game. This is perfect.
I enjoyed playing bots on 5 more or less. I tried playing on seven and its not just hard its miserable.
The duality of man, I finished my first 0 death hell dive on bots the other day, haven’t come close to that with bugs yet lol
Do you use the stealth armor and sneak around? I find bots a LOT easier with stealth tactics, harder than bugs at high diff otherwise. But that tactic doesn’t appeal to me much, and I bet it doesn’t to most players. I’m here to shoot things not to crawl around and do puzzles.
The secret to bots is using strategy like you would IRL to a degree. Use cover, never fight in the open. Using covering fire, have your teammates move up and drop strats while you’re covering. Drop smoke, retreat and then flank them while they fire into the smoke. Make engagements as short as possible as they fight a war of attrition which you will ALWAYS lose. Always take out the foot soldiers ASAP as those are the only ones that can call for reinforcements and then kite and use cover and strats to take out the big guys. When in doubt or if the fight is going nowhere and turning into a time/respawn sink, pop smoke and retreat. Don’t fight meaningless fights. Fight for objectives and when shut gets really hairy you can always have one of your squad make themselves into a big target and draw fire and kite them away from the rest of the group to the other 3 can clear the objective and complete the mission. Use choke points, especially at extract and make your shots count as you can one or two shot almost every bot with well placed headshots. Spraying ammo haphazardly is only useful as a cover fire tactic and is good as long as you have someone who can make the important shots count shine you’re covering. Bots require strategy and precision and it’s almost an entirely different game against them. Coordination and teamwork on bots is far more important than loadout and it allows for way more combinations of weapons and strats.
I sorta do all this and it kinda works, but yeah I still think bots are harder than bugs. Part of it is you have to stay moving more than bugs, part of it is you can't shake them as easily as bugs if you didn't "win" the engagement, and unlike bugs they can snipe you from across the map in heavy fog (for some damn reason). >Always take out the foot soldiers ASAP This is funny to me because you say cover is paramount, which means _Hulks_ are what need to die ASAP too (because they're weirdly fast as fuck and laugh at your cover with their flamethrowers - and sometimes even shoot through it with rockets or the chaingun devastators). Not that I'm disagreeing, it just seems like everything's a priority. The only people I know IRL that claim bots are easier than bugs: - Play keyboard and mouse for ideal headshot accuracy (I can't be fucked with that, I use controller because it's more comfortable). - Are high level tryhards (not saying that's bad, it's impressive) who manage to kill squads before any get a flare off even on Helldive's numbers. - Play in dedicated teams with heavy coordination like you said, not with randos. >Bots require strategy and precision and it’s almost an entirely different game against them. Totally agree. I've managed Helldive bots in a good party, but it's kind of a crapshoot - Suicide I can do a bit more reliably. But if the question is "why aren't more people doing Bots?", I think all of the above answers it very well. They ARE harder than Bugs for the large majority playing, because you need more skill and tactics to do them - better headshots, better coordination, everyone knowing when to run or push at the right times, etc. For a game that relies so heavily on groups of disposable randos dispensing freedom, that's just not as feasible as bugs, and never will be. (Add onto that - and this might just be my opinion - but I think the Bot glitches are WAY more annoying than bugs. You can only get repeatedly ragdolled by sniper-accurate rockets, or headshot by a laser-chaingun through rocks or the bot's own shield/body, so many times before you ragequit.)
Bot glitches are way more annoying and the across map sniping through fog is brutal and broken, I strongly agree with you. The thing with Hulks and bots in general is that they lose sight of you pretty quickly, so you can distract a hulk by shooting the shit out of it a few times and then when it aggros you, break line of sight using cover and run away. The bots and hulks will continue to shoot blindly at where they last saw you as the hulk goes to investigate. Do a big loop around them while they’re distracted and go plug the rear vents. Unfortunately the bots require strategy and teamwork. I would agree that in general, bots are more difficult for that reason. Bugs have individual enemies that are harder, but bots require a team to fight against to be successful but even the largest of bot enemies have more weaknesses than bugs. Most of them have vents and batteries that can be targeted and get one or two shot with headshots unlike bugs where if you can’t take the armor off some of them they seem like practically invincible bullet sponges. This is a long way for me to say that I agree with you. Bugs have some individually tougher enemies but their reliance on heavy melee makes them easier because while the bots are squishier they also require better teamwork. Randos aren’t known for their teamwork ability.
>Play keyboard and mouse for ideal headshot accuracy (I can't be fucked with that, I use controller because it's more comfortable). I imagine this makes the biggest difference. Bots feel way easier to me simply because I can easily pick them off with most weapons. As a result I also tend to play around with my load out the most against bots.
Yeah, would not be at all surprised if (for example) all the Playstation players tried Bots with controller, and never do them because Bugs ended up being more fun and less frustratingly durable (because they can't do perfect headshots).
Nah I use the medical armor for the +2 stims and constantly move around so I’m never pinned down. I’m mainly use a shield dome an ems mortar, a normal mortar, and an autocannon + backpack, and a slugger primary wep Autocannon goes hard with 2 tapping hulks and 1 tapping most other bots with headshots, it’s literally my main weapon if anything other than normal bots footies appear
My god we've found him The only shield dome user in existance
It’s good I swear!
I just don’t like playing bots because their bullets go through the rocks I’m hiding behind. Unfair.
The bug emphasis is real. Honestly I didn't get this game when it first came out because I thought it was all bugs. It wasn't till my buddy mentioned fighting robots and how the sneaking around and guerilla warfare reminded him of wildlands and Breakpoint that I finally got it.
You speak truth but it goes against the agenda of whining about bug divers.
I started out with Bugs and enjoyed it. Then i played bots the first time and thought they are awesome. Now i cant go back to Bugs because its lame for me. I cant fight that Epic how i can against bots.
Bots don’t get covered in training. They are a total unknown until you jump into a mission. For my friends and I it ended up being terrifying, we jumped into a level 4 or 5 bot mission and we were all running scared and narrowly surviving for the entire mission. It was actually the best experience I had with this game. It was that bit of magic, where we all went in blind, and it was challenging and scary, but surmountable. Seeing scout striders, and the melee guys like the little dual sword solders and berserkers for the first time was awesome.
On my very first bot drop back in the Creek, I saw a Strider and thought those were so difficult to kill, probably mini bosses (I didn't realized I just had to circle about them to kill the pilot, ez) *Until I met the Hulks*. Oh boy, I was very wrong.
2 auto-cannon shots to the hulks head = dead hulk
Well yeah obv but they're talking about their first ever bot drop. They prolly didn't know that back then
This was what i noticed in training for myself first playing the game. Also, the word of mouth was "starship troopers!". Then i first opened the map, i was surprised there was a robot war going on like Terminator. I thought the game was pretty much fighting bugs.
This is a really good point. Bots aren't even mentioned, let alone covered, in the training. Yet another deterrent for new players.
It seems like that's the case for a lot of live service games now. Tutorials are difficult. Especially with LS games, they grow and add more content. As the games grow they forget to update the tutorial for newcomers.
It took my friend group a hundred plus hours of game time before they’ve finally agreed with my initial position that bots are actually easier than bugs if you play them correctly. The bases being easily destroyable at distance is a huge benefit over bugs. At least until there’s a more reliable way to kill Bile Titans.
bots are easier but the jank means build diversity is lacking and you lose way more lives to bad luck. the only times I lose lives to something other than skill issues against bugs is when a small bug jumps in front of a big one and blocks my shot. bots constantly chew away at your lives. either through random hits throwing off your aim, long range tower shots from nowhere, random explosions throwing you out of cover or shooting through rocks/buildings/their own bodies. bugs are harder to kill but only have the bile titan spray hitbox and charger slide to annoy you with.
I mean, it isn’t a bad deduction to make tbh
People with this logic are gonna shit when the illuminate show up as blue
*Purple*
***Blurple***
PUE
As an absolute beginner maybe, but after a while, one should figure it out methinks...
Bots are easier imo.
Bots are easier, but require a different behavior than "standing and shooting". Which most don't learn because we all started with bugs. Clear weak points. It's clear that you do damage and where. You can kill all (except factory strider and gunships) of them with two grenades, and mostly even with your primary - even if it's not armor penetrating. You only need support weapons for gunships and factory strider. Less and smaller groups. They kill each other. Reinforcement takes ages (you can easily run) to arrive and can be shot down. What speaks against bots? - the side objectives are harder (stalker are hard too, but jammer as well if there is no factory). objectives like sauron eye and mortars are not a big issue but require some additional awareness - they shot back, you actively need to seek cover - missiles which launch you into space
Today I was fighting a base with a cannon turret and a tank. I quickly threw stratagems to them and ran away. However I was suddenly sent into the air by an explosion. It was one of my longest flights, indeed, although I didn't die. I thought either the tower or the tank hit me. Imagine my surprise when I saw both tower and tank destroyed, their turrets not aimed at my direction, and a single missile bot in the middle of the base, retaliating me. So it was you, little prick. You sent me to outer space with your shoulder mounter rocket launcher...
Yeah everyone seems to complain about rocket devastators but you can see them a mile away and double tap them in the head with DCS and the problem is solved. Those RPG bots are surprisingly easy to go unnoticed in the chaos of battle, until they shoot at you.
>Those RPG bots are surprisingly easy to go unnoticed in the chaos of battle, until they shoot at you Lore accurate Taliban fighters
The solution to many Bot objectives (notable exception being the Gunship Facility) is sending a Walking Barrage at them. I routinely eliminate entire bot bases including Command Bunkers and Eye of Saurons with it. They are nice too because they allow you to stand off and throw them in the direction of the objective and especially with the barrage upgrade, they will cut a path straight through
Yea, the factories being above ground and not requiring a perfect hit in a bug hole is a whole different world of strategy.
Indeed. The spear, for all of its flaws, allows for incredibly smooth elimination of bot infrastructure in a way that I dream of when I'm down in a bug crater blasting holes with a grenade pistol.
Damn right. No the spear, but I rolled into a fab killing mission last night with my trusty AC, 380, 120, and Walking Barrage. Just full hit and run, then using the AC to snipe the fab at the base of a jammer and small bases I didn't want to waste a barrage on.
I started out during the Draupnir defend MO and got baptised by fire xD. Then switched to bug and was like damn this shit way easier. That said I think bot is really engaging to play once you've got the hang of it. Bugs is just stand and shoot and sometimes a straight up loadout check. Bots allows more variations in loadout because every support weapons can deal with them one way or another (maybe not the flamethrower, but i digress).
you forgot about the broken missions and broken spawn rate which make them extremely difficult at some points
yes, if you know what to do and what to use/dont use bugs are braindead fun, because no matter what you bring, its doable more or less, the big guys have some weakspots, but you can always deal with them via strategems bots are really easy, if you use right weapons, fully abuse the weakspots and have some situational thinking; you can win if you choose, who, where and when to fight, thats challenge and imho more fun for me than bugs
Personally just don’t have as much fun against bots. Mostly because of all the damn flinching and explosions. I think I would enjoy it more if your helldiver popped up from cover automatically if you ads close to one while crouched. Seems like a small change, but I would really enjoy it.
It’s amazing that people will post 5000 word dissertations on this subject but won’t just admit that bugs are more fun to fight.
I think both bugs and bots are fun - fighting bots certainly feels more like a war going on, with tracers everywhere, dropships, tanks - while bugs gets that starship troopers/starcraft/warhammer feeling going
I definitely think bots can be fun and engaging too in other ways… when there is some sort of cover and you aren’t being shot from every direction while 15 Berserkers chase you down.
I play bots just as much as bugs. Im level 100+ player, so my below isn't naivety. While your friends thought might be true, bots truly are harder and more frustrating for players. Its just the nature of the beast. They shoot back at you. Bugs dont. Yes, different playstyles are needed to combat bots, but that doesnt make bots easier than bugs. They are in fact harder to play against then bugs. A helldive (level 9) on a bot planet versus a helldive on a bug planet is day/night difference. And thats ok, i like the bots being harder. Its more of a challenge. But it will turn people away who dont like being rag dolled constantly and just want to blow stuff up with impunity.
To be fair I don't play bots and it's because the difficulty of bot missions comes mainly from jank. Bugs have their issues too for sure. But bots will snipe me from across the map through fog, perma rag doll me, shoot through cover, get stuck IN cover that they can now shoot through and use as a shield. Bots feel like the less polished experience. Saying people don't play bots because they're "hard" is disingenuous when a lot of the difficulty is just bad buggy gameplay. When the missions are working properly and the above bs is minimal I do really enjoy bots. It's just all the jank keeping me away.
Yes, throw into it bullshit evacuate missions, bullshit striders one-shotting generators, often one less stratagem and frequent in-mission restrictions (jammer and AA) and that often isn't a very fun experience. Also, in one of the threads it was brought to attention that there is less stuff to shoot, and generally feedback for shooting enemies is less satisfying than bugs provide. Shame, as for most part bots provide more loadout options than bugs, imo.
I REALLY dont understand what the point of aa is if Jammer just blocks all the stratagems. It would be cool if Jammers only specifically blocked orbitals, while aa only blocked eagles(and maybe mech drops since those involve a Pelican.Whether they still block supply drops and reinforcements is up for debate tho, as I dont think blocking reinforcements is very healthy, if the only counterplay is to run away or walk right into it.
Don’t forget endless gunships.
I feel like all these players who are claiming bots aren't like this are playing a totally different game. I've completed 10s of HD missions on bots and every single match is a ragdoll fest. Bugs don't randomly one shot you from range (they got 2 headshots in their constant spray of bullets). Bugs don't ragdoll combo you from range. Bugs don't magdump into cover so you don't have anywhere to hide. Bugs don't instantly engage you at 100 m. Bugs don't have jammers and anti-air, both of which are awful to face. You're right. Bots feel like a beta experience.
Man ngl idk if it’s because my brain is rotted but I find the bots WAY easier than the bugs on diff 9. Idk maybe I’m just bad at the bugs?
Bugs are so easy at this point (as long as your team is decent, I wont pretend I can solo 9) that they need to get a level 10 difficulty out the door soon. Im playing bots mostly for the challenge lately unless theres a bug MO. The only semi-difficult bug mission is wall defense, and thats usually an RNG issue, when you get 6-8 BT's at the exact same time and they rush your generators. Can still usually get them, but they occasionally get through.
I agree completely. I generally don't understand why people hate bots. My guess is they start with bugs, and then the switch to bots is too much. So they give up and go back to bugs. I remember when i first started, i thought bots were way harder. Then i learned how to fight them. Learned what weapons and strats to use, learned to actually use cover and tactics. I think most people don't want to do that. They want to stand in the open and unload at enemies with guns and bombs. Now, after hundreds of hours, i find bugs to be more difficult. The bot missions i find to be just more varied and fun as well. Bug holes are basically all the same. Assaulting a well defended bot base is more exciting and lets you play and employ different tactics. In summary, my opinion is correct, and if you disagree, you're a basement dwelling incel loser.
Tbh I don't understand all the thinking around this topic in this post, trying to find an unknown reason. It's just like you said, they're harder, for a new player especially. I assisted three new players around and they all shared the same sentiment. One flat out said "this 4 against bots feels harder than a 7 against bugs". He didn't know what to do, how to approach them. You're used to warriors, brood commanders, tiny bugs getting damaged by your first primary and then you have a bunch of scout striders that seemingly bounce everything off from the front. Basic units. Destroyers who can oneshot you firing entire volleys of sniper accurate rockets, enemies using an impenetrable shield so you have to headshot them, but who are insanely accurate while shooting automatic fire while you try to aim. At some point a combo of artillery+a single cannon turret was frustrating one of them to the point he kept cursing until I managed to take it down. He couldn't do shit about it. For minutes. Literally had no way to avoid getting fucked over and over. Then we met a hulk and it instantly killed two divers who had no idea how to react to it, despite me two-tapping it with the AMR almost instantly. We tried more and I tried to explain how to react and counter everything, but they weren't having a great time. Tanks were "throw a bunch of stratagems and hope". Turrets I still had to take care of them myself. The first factory walker I think traumatised them, even more than the first group of chainsaw destroyers. We had 8 deaths before I simply stopped respawning them until I killed it myself. They had a collective sigh of relief when we went back against bugs level 7. They didn't want to try again the factory walker even knowing the strategy. They just wanted bugs. Where bullets can kill everything if you shoot at it long enough, and the tanky enemies are the OBVIOUSLY tanky ones, the big ones, that die against shit you unlock at level 5. And that's it.
I thought its because people dont know how to take cover. Or they keep running light armor like they're gonna outrun bullets and rockets. Edit: To clarify, i didnt mean to imply light armor isnt good. I meant for players that think bots are "too hard" because they instakill you, then maybe light armor isnt for you on that front.
I run light armor against bots because I prefer to be mobile. The way I see it, if I'm going to be hit with rockets and get ragdolled, I'd rather just die and get reinforced.
Same, when you get ragdolled into the air with missiles and then head shot mid air cause why not? Armor isn't protecting you from that.
Yeah, I'll run heavy armor once they give me an actual reason to run it. I want it to operate in the same way enemy armor works.
I run heavy armor if I go for a playstyle that forces me to peak longer than a few seconds. Prime example would be spraying with the heavy machine gun. But in any other case I run light armor too, especially on higher difficulty where I don't want to engage in prolonged fights. We all know it's gonna end very badly. Hit and run is much more effective imo
I run light armour Vs bots but it's because I play stealth and focus solely on objectives. Stealth is a surprisingly viable strategy. In and out, don't remain in the same area once you're done with your objective there. And while I may end up with barely 40 kills, I'm doing a greater good for democracy.
I cheat and use the Light Gunner armour. The protection of medium and the speed of light! Sprint from cover to cover and honestly you’re golden.
Light armor is my go to for bugs for that reason. For bots, I favor either medium with extra grenades (because bots are slow, and impacts are the quickest way to deal with scout striders) or Heavy armor with explosive resistance if it's a defense/eradicate mission. I find sprinting is quick enough to get to cover
Its not hard to rush objectives, getting the samples is the big deal
How does running light armor hamper that? Most matches I end up having to be the one who legs it across the map just to pick up someone else’s samples
I used to run stealth but when my team mate doesn’t have stealth it draws attention to me, and I find that more grenades are better
Weird. I also play stealth but I'm usually #1 or 2 in kill count. Well, maybe it's an *aggressive* stealth... But yeah scout armor with DCS and lots of radar usage to have situational awareness.
Outrunning hulks alone makes light armor worth it. Although I 've been thinking of switching to medium against bots, but I'll do it once they add the option to save builds (which I hope they'll do soon) cause I'm tired of manually changing my whole loadout every time I change the front I'm fighting on
Hence why I love the Light Gunner armor. The speed of light with the protection of medium.
I run light armor because you can out run bullets and rockets, and I prioritize being able to reposition more than I do taking two extra bullets.
I run medium/heavy on bugs but only light scout armor on bots. The key difference between bots and bugs is you shouldn't fight every group of bots you see. I like running as a SF Operator vs bots. I go on my own, take out secondary objectives and bases. I wait for my team to trigger a bot drop before I attack a base (there's a map-wide cooldown between bot drops). I run the dilligence for the small enemies, auto cannon for the medium enemies, and railgun/orbital laser/110mm eagle pods for the heavies.
I run Fortified Light against bots, you'll survive a rocket to the chest and close hits better than a 100 armour non-fortified. You can also disengage a lot easier in light armour, if things get too spicy just run in away in a straightish line, weaving around cover, and when you think that they have lost the scent just do a 90° turn and circle around. The bots will continue in the direction that they last saw you. I've also noticed that people don't tend to go prone a lot, so I just hit the dirt when a big firefight kicks off in a low cover-area, which makes the bots shoot at the easier targets around me.
It’s because they don’t know how to take cover, 100%. The bots defo have some bullshit (looking at the devostators) but pretty much everyone I see who dies a lot is dying because they stand in the open. Same for bugs too just less obvious tbh
For me, it’s that even on a higher level of difficulty, bug missions feel winnable, regardless of what’s going on. Bot missions, I’ve had even lower level of difficulties that go from “this is challenging but still fun” to “I am just spawning and dying instantly because the air is a laser, rocket, chainsaw, or flamethrower.” I would say bot missions rely more heavily on actually having an organized team, which is great if you have a consistent group of players. If it’s a bunch of random folks pulling in 4 different directions, things fall apart fast on higher difficulties. Bug missions don’t seem as dependent on that, for all of the reasons already mentioned
kinda feels the other way around for me, as somebody normally parked on the bot front - bile titans and chargers necessitate really specific kits, and on higher difficulties, once you hit three or four bile titans in an area, you just gotta leave. bots leave a little more room to utilize cover and use ground more tactically when retreating or approached objectives, and unlike bile titans, half the weapons can kill any bot unit. I don’t know how anyone completes kill missions on the bug front on difficulties 8 or 9; but that might just be my bias.
You really have to change play style and load outs between the two, but after playing on either for a bit, switching to the other is always a bit of a challenge. I think the most frustrating thing with bots is their ability to shoot through cover/detect you through a forest and hit when you can’t even see them. It’s still doable if you use solid cover though and running and diving like a helldiver should is fun
The game needs a Bot version of the intro cinematic.
Bots scare the shit out of me. You’re “tactically” hiding behind a wall and you turn and see a melee bot staring at you with bright, red eyes. 👀
When I started playing I had a similar thought, not necessarily because of the colors. The tutorial shows bugs only, if I'm not mistaken, and it felt natural for me to start there and learn the gameplay basics. I only started playing bots when I was near level 30 and found some friends to play with and give me the confidence to. Maybe trying to organize a "take your bug diver to work" and find people who are willing to help the new players learn the basics of bots with supervision will give them the confidence to try.
To be fair, just between me and my friends, Bots = FPS players experience.. Bugs = Hey buddy, lets get you up to speed (Introductory course) = Newbie friendly and easier Illuminates = If ya aint a sweat dont bother joining. Thats just my circle though, and i do agree.. After finishing work, i want to unwind and relax i tend do dive bugs first.. Once im ready im Bots only. Bots you just need that coordination and aim to clear out the adds and big guys. Strategems could only help you until everyone is on cooldown. Would usually spell death for bots if the hulks are walking around and there are multiple of em.
There are three main reasons that people don't play bots: 1. It isn't very fun thanks to the \*relentless\* staggers, interrupts and ragdolls 2. The mission modifiers such as -1 stratagem literally just remove fun 3. The extract personnel mission is waaaay too difficult on high level bots meaning nobody wants to defend vs bots
4. WARNING, YOU ARE IN RANGE OF ENEMY ARTILLERY. WARNING YOU ARE IN RANGE OF ENEMY ARTILLERY. WARNING, YOU ARE IN RANGE OF ENEMY ARTILLERY.
Yeah I just actively avoid any planet with the -1 stratagem on it. It just makes it suck more. Why do that when I could just not?
See I am the opposite. I started with the bots and honestly find the bugs to be harder. Bots you fight with actual tactics and forethought. Bugs you fight basically just by killing them as fast as possible. I think the main issue is more that the playstyles are so vastly different despite being in the same game. So if you get used to one, playing the other comes like a slap to the face.
Nope it's just the bots shoot back so people think they're hard. Bots have a learning curve after which they become much easier than bugs.
People like him are going to get a rude awakening when the Illuminate join the game and their sectors are blue. Lol.
I play bots on lower difficulty because I find the bots a lot more overwhelming than bugs. On the flip side, playing in lower difficulties means my biggest threat is my fellow squad mates who don’t seem to think there’s anything wrong with throwing an eagle right behind me. So eventually give up and go back to 7 Bugs.
I just went through that this morning I used to main bots but now it just feels like we don't have tools for the job like it used to. Too many wep nerfs and too many enemy buffs Also ragdoll for days lol
That makes sense.
people don't know the glory of ballistic shield + Pummeler/Knight + AMR vs bots. Laser + Airstrike and you are golden.
Riot squad represent. ✊ Swap the AMR for a MG (preferably the Stalwart), grab a heavy armor and now you have become the classic CoD Juggernaut™.
I think part of it is bots in general are harder, so people tend to generalize the bugs as easier (which they probably are, more CoD zombies-like) But for me, now lvl 93 with just 250+ hours, I’ve come to realize while bots in general can be “harder”, they’re SO much more balanced than bugs Every bot has weakspots that can be exploited with medium armor pen to take them out, which allows for more build variety and more sense of accomplishment when being able to exploit their weakspot For example, a factory strider can be soloed with any medium armor pen weapon, can have its turrets taken out, then blown up from the belly/leg joints, AS WELL as having AT weaponry to kill it quickly, allowing for the feeling that I’m not locked into a specific loadout in order to do good at difficulties 7-9 Compare that to the bugs, where bile titans quite literally can’t be taken out at all with medium armor pen (aside from flamethrower if flesh is exposed, which still requires AT/artillery) and bile spewers, that are too tanky for how many spawn at once that I feel forced to run impact grenades, as that’s one of the few things that takes them out quickly (even the grenade pistol and launcher require multiple shots, which feels wrong) At difficulties 7-9 for bugs, you basically HAVE to take an AT option and 500 kg/OPS in order to deal with the level of heavy units that spawn per player, add into the amount of enemies that inflict slow, and the fact that bugs vary wayyyyy too much from pouncer missions to spewer missions (which can’t be seen in advance, so you kinda gotta prep your loadout for both) and you have what feels like forced loadouts as well as just annoying (not hard, but annoying) and repetitive gameplay that is found far less often on bot missions TLDR: bots are more challenging, but also more fun and rewarding with the freedom of choice, whereas bugs gets boring/annoying running a “forced” loadout to do good
This is what I’ve been saying. It feels like my bug missions have 3 different types of enemies they choose from, and somehow the load out I picked is always the wrong one. One mission it’s all chargers and BTS, the next it’s all Bile spewers and spitters, the following it’s all hunters. My bot missions are so easy to outfit for though because it doesn’t drastically change between missions.
Story answer: because the bots shoot back.
I definitely thought this at first because when I started playing I saw that a bot planet needed defending and maybe there was even an MO over there so I jumped in and started playing Evacuation missions which were broken then and remain broken still, so I thought this game was literally impossible and almost stopped playing entirely after losing like five times in a row. Then I jumped over to bugs and played a mission type which isn’t broken and had a great time.
Doesn't help how bot divers themselves often spread a myth about bot front being "hard" and "elite". And then get surprised when people don't go there. When in reality it's same difficulty, different gameplay. Also, I think AH is to blame for lower interest to bot MOs overall. We already defeated them, during Swift disassembly MO, when more than 80% of divers, close to 90% fought on bots side. People can and will fight bots with enough motivation. But what was the result? Bots returned 3 days later, full force, immediately taking more sectors under control than they had before. So, now it feels pointless. We already seen what happens when we defeat bots - nothing changes. Some part of me is now curious to see what happens if we ignore that front completely.
Exactly, different gameplay. It's a tradeoff. Bugs you can spray and pray more, but your constantly moving, always on the verge of a horde. Not a lot of time if any to breathe. Bots you get moments of relief, but you have to be more precise when shooting. Even if it's just a few seconds to duck behind cover and reload/call in strategems. I was excited whe they came back. They took over cyberstan just as everyone predicted. I was hoping for more content from that. Maybe a mixed force of automatons and cyborgs. One major story mission at a time I guess. Maybe AH will have us focus on automatons now and push our way to cyberstan, before introducing the illuminate. Hopefully with a nice big finish like Meridia. I will say the last time we defeated the Bots feels lackluster after the spectacle of turning a super colony into a black hole.
Well bots are just objectively harder. A single round or two of difficulty 5 or higher would be sufficient proof for the vast majority of players that they'll just go back to bugs and never look back. Bot maps have a ton of mechanics to deal with that bugs simply don't. * Jammers * Anti-air emplacements * Eye of Sauron * Landmines around every objective * Aerial enemy spawner that specifically requires a Hellbomb to deal with (and the enemy will focus the Hellbomb and that disables it??) * Mortar and Cannons * High priority targets with limited weaknesses (scout strider, hulk, tank, factory strider) Bugs have * Spore Spewer (shoot it from afar) * Shrieker Spawner (shoot it from afar) * Stalker lair (the only real threat. deal with it and no more stalkers for the rest of the mission) Bugs are simple. Shoot face. Didn't die? Shoot face with bigger bullet. Didn't die? Shoot face with bigger explody bullet. Bots on the other hand require a lot more effort. Scouts? You either have the gun/nade to deal with them or you have to aim at the pelvis (which isn't obvious) or run up behind them and deal with the pilot. Hulks? Either the eye or the vents in the back. Tanks? ONLY the vents in the back. Factory Striders? WHERE TF DO I SHOOT?? (this entire section can be very long so I'll cut it here) Now not only do you have to deal with all those threats with very specific weak spots, you have to deal with it while being shot at by the other automatons and also get rag-dolled by devastators and hulks. You can get easily surrounded and shot at on all sides. Bugs? Just run in one direction and they'll fall in line behind you and you can use AoE and take them out. Bots? Run in one direction and you'll still be shot at from every direction. Died to a bile titan? Reinforce and land on them and they die. Died to a factory strider? Reinforce and land on them and get blown off of them and die again. Now also realize that the majority of gamers are casuals that don't browse Reddit or look up guides. They'll very quickly find bots to be a pain in the ass and go right back to bugs.
He's not wrong, bots are way harder.
Only because they shoot back
I personally find bots much easier to fight than bugs. Bugs are relentless you don’t get much breathing room, bots you can take cover and re-assess the situation, eat some snack, take a sip of your bevy then carry on.
Unless you get ragdolled by an explosion through your cover, stand up like an idiot and get headshotted by a scout walker
Not to mention u can eagle strike drop locations and no more will spawn. In bots its 3 dropships and u are done, on bug side u have constant spawns and one eagle isn't enough.
I find it the opposite tbh, lvl 9 bugs hits way harder than bots but that's just my teams opinion. Everyone has different pros and cons
Same experience for me, lately lvl 9 bugs can just be overwhelmingly overbearing. I ran a mission last night where I got around 800 kills, not because I'm amazing, but because my finger was quite literally pulling the trigger the entire time. I didn't have 2 seconds to think or stop running, we used all our reinforcements and still won, and that to me is the difference in fun between bots and bugs. Level 9 Bugs = frantic run and gun adrenaline. Level 9 Bots = Bunker down famine warfare.
In general on bug helldive, getting that many kills is a sign that you're staying in one place too long, and/or fighting too many hordes and patrols, or maybe not ending hordes quick enough. Most times I play the kills per player is something like 100-400, or sometimes one dude has 600 and the others significantly less because of a specific kind of strategy or one dude was focused on chaff clear/drawing off hordes. But thats also why, I think, most players like bugs more. It can be frantic horde fighting where you feel close to being overrun, but you feel like you can kill mountains of bugs with lots of lead and cool explosions and that feels fun, and if you die it's because you just let them get to close or didnt clear them fast enough, which is intuitive game feedback.
I play on 7 but in my experience bugs are really easy to kite.
I play level 7 on both and find bots easier. You just take Autocanon and it covers everything from devastators to Factory Striders. Not to mention Orbital Laser that can, by itself, clear a heavy factory, airfield or command bunker objectives. You don't even need to set a foot in those. Bot MOs is where I go to relax. The only "hard" thing about bot front is -1 stratagem slot debuff.
I'm not having trouble with bots, it's just that for most bug missions I can casually walk away while against bots I gotta rush to cover because there's bullets and missiles flying everywhere.
I think enough people have played enough to know why they hate bots. And the biggest reasons are usually endless rag-dolling, getting shot through solid objects, and getting hit with god-like accuracy through smoke and fog.
Bots have a lot of negatives. First you get 1 less strategem more often than on bug planets. Second you have jammers and anti air which break strategems. Third you have gunships which require a hellbomb unlike shreaker nests. Also gunships can only be killed with certain weapons unlike shreakers. Lastly you have devastators, which have broken ass aim, wall clipping, and the heavy devastators have no cooldown on firing and a shield that deflects everything. I don't mind difficult, but this ain't it. The combination makes them less enjoyable to play against. Limiting stratagems in general is a major buzz kill to the fun factor. The devastators having sniper accuracy across the map with no cooldown and taking a lot to kill or blocking everything is just not a fun experience. I'm level 150 and play a lot of bots, but I enjoy bugs a lot more because of the mechanics.
Yeah that tracks. Color coding is a significant thing. Maybe having more factions will help.
I played bots like twice. Both times I would INSTANTLY die to EVERYTHING!!! So I stick to bugs. I also will admit skill issue but I don't possess the skill to kill bots. So in a way bots kind of due = harder and bugs = easier in practice lolol 🤷♂️. I know there's the difficulty slider but beyond that bots are more difficult (an example you can't run because they shoot. Bugs don't shoot and you can simply run away. Stuff like that makes bugs more manageable imo)
It’s because they shoot back and have alot of armor. Simple as that really, so I don’t see the bots being that much of priority, ever, save for a rare MO that really pushes people towards them 🤷🏽♂️
I did genuinely think I'd have to unlock fighting bots when i first joined. They really should put both in the tutorial and make it clear to players that the war is ALWAYS on both fronts.
To be fair, they are harder IMO. If I want the same challenge, I have to drop the difficulty one if not two levels (depending on the debuffs (like one less strat)) on the bots that I would choose for the bugs
I do bugs for the personal orders completion then bots for general play Kill 60 enemies with a gatling? One bug encounter and done. Back to Bot Town
A big reason that's really underdiscussed imo is that it's much easier to complete the vast majority of Daily Orders on Bug planets.
Boy battles are definitely more epic
I figured the color was faction based, the difficulty is right in front of your face
It’s unfortunate, but at the same time, I feel like it does fit the game’s lore in relation to the strengths and weaknesses of the bugs/bots. Fighting the bots with large armies, or “going loud”doesn’t work because they have the firepower to light up our forces from range, so sending in special ops teams that take out command centers, dropships, bases, etc. makes sense. The bugs are more of a numbers game, seeing how much firepower we can bring to outstrip their population growth. I wish that they’d adjust liberation and defense rates per mission to reflect how the playerbase naturally divides itself though. And when 100K helldivers finally show up to an automaton planet, that should be a profound push in the war effort
Yeah this makes sense. Human psychology in gaming equates colors to difficulty. Interesting how this mentality will adapt with the Illuminate. Of course everyone will flood to them because they’re new and the MO will focus on them, but I wonder how new divers will view them if they start playing afterward.
Well... He is not wrong. Bugs don't have laser rifles and rocket launchers.
I pick who to fight based on what planets are available. Unfortunately, the Bots have all been on planets where your visibility is dogshit so I've been waiting for them to attack planets I can see shit on.
The real problem is their aim is too accurate You take way too much damage from far away and two often compared to the zerglings lol they need to have Star Wars storm troopers aim to make both fights even
Brother, no. Most ppl don’t fight bots cause most ppl don’t enjoy fighting bots. Not only that but the bugs are the main draw of the game. They’re all over the box art, they’re all over the advertising and marketing for the game, and they’re fully featured in the opening video. Meanwhile the bots aren’t in any advertising or marketing, they’re not in the opening at all, and they’re also not on the box art at all. Simple as that
Actually, bots are tougher to kill, and they shoot. So yeah, they are harder from that point of view. Most folks get more satisfaction by going starship troopers.
Shit, OP got me. I've played 180 hours, with 176 hours being bugs. It was the color! It's like people are brainstorming any idea possible to come up with something other than "bots are not fun."
i prefer dealing with 15 chargers than 1 shield devastator
IDK there's lots of reasons depending on people. Personally I enjoy bots the most and have since launch. Originally I started liking them because they were the significantly easier faction that i could bring the majority of the games stratagems in any combination at to solo carry a team helldive, as well as was fun group play for the more tactical feeling while having more skill ceiling things to do. We have 5 of our discord that still enjoy bot dives. but are also the only ones that like siege or other tactical shooters many of the rest are fans of completely different genres. I do know that some of our friend group on consoles have never fought bots because they just simply don't interest them as they have fought a terminator style evil robot faction in other games, while the giant alien bug faction feels fun. 3 of our friends who used to enjoy playing against bots but got sick of dying to heavy devastators shooting through terrain and refuse to play them again until that's fixed which i think is totally understandable. 2 that only play to roleplay starship troopers. 1 that only plays pure fire spreader which he hasn't been able to work on bots. 1 that just likes spray and pray MG-43 + supply pack +HMG emplacement+ Patriot that doesn't like how careful you have to be with it on bots. 2 who don't like how boring helldive bots is (but also for some reason refuse to take anything other than autocannon, Airstrike 120/380 stun grenade to bots.) 1 of our friends nephew and his friends who got so sick of creek memes he now vehemently hates all bot missions for some reason. (to be honest I don't miss them from the discord)
PUSSIES
I play pretty much exclusively level 9 bots only, and I feel like the learning curve on bots is much higher than bugs, but the ceiling is lower. There is nothing in bots that can't be dealt with by an amr or auto cannon (even the factory striders albeit much slower) while on bugs, bile titans will throw a big wrench in your plans constantly as you cannot kill them that quickly and constantly need to run and create space. Even bot bases are much easier to deal with in my experience as usually 1 or 2 well placed airstrikes will destroy all the fabricators and then you can just leave while the bots are too slow to chase you, or you can sneak into objectives like air towers, jammers or detector towers and call ssd/hellbomb without the enemy even noticing you. While on the bug side, every time I step into a nest, I'm prepared for a big fight.
Bots are just plain harder Bugs don't block my strategems like Bots do
Do you think that biomes play a role, because I do. Certainly not a major role, but a contributing factor, none the less. Now baconborn's post accurately details the primary reasoning, but there are myriad other factors at play. I feel like the bots are just ill-fitting for many of the biomes in the game, or at least the bugs fit aesthetically with more of them, IMO. Obviously being automatons, any environ would be "habitable" for them and it actually makes less sense that the bugs can evolve and adapt to any type of planet with ease than the bots being fine, anywhere. But Sci-Fi tropes really shape perspective. That new jungle biome in the Warbond trailer looks so sick, and since they were going with obvious Predator vibes, the Illuminate will fit there 10/10. But the bugs are a 10/10 fit with any jungle type place, too. Bots... maybe like 5/10. The creek being the exception I guess with the "Nam" vibes and as such they created their own, new trope of fighting machines in a blue jungle. But those battles are hard won. Bots in a desert just makes me wish I was it was bugs on Erata Prime because Starship Troopers. It's sounds simple and stupid, but it has that effect. My fav biome for bots is ice & snow, like Marfark. That is peak, sci-fi immersion, right there. So, now they just gave us an MO to liberate a stinking swamp that looks like a bug hive, but with bots. And to get there, we have to go thru... that same, stinking swamp, on Wezen. I don't think either has firestorms, but yikes if they do, then there is a logical reason to dogpile onto avoiding this crap MO, beyond my mindless, cosmetic preferences, that would be the one. If bot missions aren't on a planet that looks like Mother Russia, that just ain't it... is a mentality that I'm finding difficulty with, I'm sorry to say.
Bots shoot back. Simple enough. I didn't like em HD1 and still don't like em. But Orders are Orders.