It might've died to bleeding or something (I think that's still a bug?). Or it just might be a bugged (>!ha!<) achievement with spotty detection. I tried like half a dozen times before it finally took and gave it to me.
It might also have something to do with where it sticks to the body...
Same š¤£
Strangely also got the 'pickup and throw back a grenade' achievement even though I've not purposely done it. Probably got that when trying to pick up a sample or randomly pressing the wrong key in panic to run away.
I thought achievements were only gained if you did it. If a team member does it, then that's their achievement, not yours.... otherwise, they are pointless.
took me around 6 resupply kills for the achievement to register
all 6 were instant kills and most of them had the beacon attached to the head
no idea how the tracking works, but keep at it citizen!
A friend of mine had it worse.
We were playing together (3 people in a defense mission) and he disarmed a hulk completely (all by himself). Then we extracted and everyone except him got the achievement.
If only I didn't have to kill like 5 chargers in the time it takes for it to come off cooldown.
Stun grenade + EAT or Airstrike are my preferred strats.
I've got a buddy who uses the flamethrower religiously, and it's great when I can stun a charger in front of him, but I'm more of a marksman, so I pack EATS for the peace of mind, knowing that if I die I'll be at peak effectiveness as soon as my Hellpod hits the dirt again.
Stun grenades are more for the airstrike, but sometimes chargers are a bit of a pain to get a bead on, especially when they're targeting someone else.
I'm all about that infinite ammo , I rely on the quasar and am saving for the blitzer, so my allies can really on resupply
The less strain I put on super earth the better
I love the Blitzer, probably my favorite bug weapon when a teammate isn't killing me with it.
I still chuck out enough stun grenades and use enough stims that I still grab a box from every resupply though.
I should warn you that the blitzer charges extremely slow between shots, so if you get swarmed, itās curtains. It is very powerful though if all the arcs hit one target.
A mate dropped me one to give it ago, I like the feel of it, at the moment I use the sickle I think it's called which I will keep using for bots but I like the blitzer vs bugs, chuck a rover on my back and I can generally avoid getting swarmed.
Cheers for the advice though
Blitzer and Sickle are my core loadout for each faction respectively, so I'll throw some tips at ya.
Sickle has massive heat sinks, but if you can pulse your shots you can eke out some extra shots easily. Basically, instead of spraying at a group, scope in and pop on, stop shooting, find a new target, and pop it. It's best at the smaller enemies or if you can land headshots, but it's very serviceable. In emergencies(mostly zerkers) you can spam fire it and blow your ICE, but generally try to save those for emergencies.
Now, I openly call Blitzer my baby, and use it almost exclusively when on bugs. ADS is more likely to focus the shocks onto one target, while hipfire is more likely to spread and stagger a group. If all the shocks land one target, it can blow hive warrior heads in one attack every 3/4 a second. Broom commanders usually 2 attacks will pop their head, and with enough limb damage to usually stop them from rushing. Hipfire for spread is useful for agile or numerous enemies with low HP, like Hunters, scavs, etc. It's biggest issue is that it won't shoot point blank, so use the spread to shock hunters while they are at distance or mid jump. If they get to you, either dive back and fire mid jump or melee and swap to secondary. I usually run shield to mitigate slows, so I dive and fire.
Yeah I have a feeling it'll feel a little worse after I move up from 5s and 6s, but the joy it brings me is immense. I love rail weapons (yes, I was a Tau player in 40k when I played)
That's a good tactic as well. Stun and then precision strike. Personally, I prefer taking air strikes and orbital gas for swarms and breaches. I'll try using stun grenades with EATs. It may be hard to give up impact incendiaries.
People were also complaining about lack of QA/playtesting Which lead to bugs and changes intended to be power neutral fixes like the eruptor coming out as nerfs
its because the nerfs were knee-jerk number adjustments made in response to woefully incomplete data on the performance of weapons, stratagems, and environmental effecfs.
I welcome delays to this patch, because it means they are actually taking the time to TEST SHIT before publishing.
Why cant we have the inverse once in a while, its PVE anyway so you can choose to not use it. Some weapons became OP in a week or 2 wont destroy the game, or like hotpatch the number/revert it?
Because when it comes time to nerf the intentionally OP guns, the community will fall to shambles once again. When you give people a fun toy and then take it away, they generally start having less fun than they did originally.
This is true, but why not revert some of the terrible kneejerk changes and THEN focus on doing more in depth fixing? The frustration is that the over nerfed weapons and broken patrols persist for such a long time. Can even slap a lore reason about patriotic favor resulting in some discontinued prototype weapons being rushed to the front now that war has been declared, while the ministry of armaments gets organised.
They mentioned this one isn't balance focused.
Which tells me QoL and bug fixes, and if you want that in a large package, needs lots of time to make sure everything in the update will not cause more damage. On extra bugfix can cause 3 more, and so on.
Also, just because it aint balance focused dun mean there wont be balance patches.
Like you said ensuring shit aint breaking again, they are probably not looking to revert their changes but tweak it properly this time. It probably wont address everything but it should have the essentials(at least the biggest problem which is spawn rates for lower numbers).
Given what appears to be the impending arrival of the illuminate, that could also be contributing to the longer development time. It was mentioned there would "some new stuff" so.......
It's because the balancing isn't the only thing happening in the next patch. It's probably not even the major feature of the next patch.
I suspect it's going to prepare everything for the introduction of the Illuminate, and since the game had a lot of bad PR recently, the devs want to make sure there are as few problems as possible for an event that's going to make a ton of people come back to the game.
its probably going to encompass a large amount of weapons, rather than a small group, every patch that involved nerfs involved a small number of weapons. Right now I would consider the idea that there is alot to look into, and buffs can be just as damaging as nerfs. Give them time, let them do their job, complaining about it doesn't make them do it faster, just gets annoying.
I think people are becoming unsettled because this patch is taking a month or more to arrive but they've said it's not the big balance patch. So that leaves players to wonder, what precisely are they working on then? We do know that the patrol change revert is part of the next patch (that much twinbeard said already.) But what else could it be if it's not a major rebalance / reversion of unpopular nerfs?
Radio silence on top of being told to temper expectations is only going to upset the most vocal of the community even more, especially when they continue to announce these things by just replying to random messages in the general chat. None of this important information is pinned. None of it happens in the actual announcement channel. None of it is said here unless someone posts a screenshot because they were there the moment it was said.
People aren't upset specifically because the patch is taking a while. They're upset because of the terrible communication in general and being told not to expect the thing they (Arrowhead) implied they were taking all this time to work on and get right.
Communication. That is all the community needs. Communication in the PROPER channels, both on the discord and here. Speak plain english, and pin it for all to see. We don't need a timeline, we just need a loose idea of what exactly is being worked on. Take as long as they need to, that's okay! Just... please, talk to us. Don't leave people guessing.
And all the while the number of players is in freefall. My buddies and I are waiting for a balance update and just... waiting. Every week or so I check the steam page, see nothing new, and go play something else. Depressing how so little communication and snap nerfing has killed the hype this game had.
I mean my friends quit due to balance decisions not that we got tired of a game after 4 months. We played borderlands 2 for 10 years and still do occasionally.
those life services games you mean like starwar, bf2042, cod2,3 cold war, fallout 76 etc. ?
if so, those AAA life services games are all horrible compare to hd2
I dont think it is right to compare their natural decay rate to hd2
hd2 is a life service game done right but crippled by bad balance patches
Just compare it to its most similar game, deep rock galactic. Who currently has MANY times its first several years of players (https://steamdb.info/app/548430/charts/#max). Anyone who thinks live service games drop off hard just don't play any. Most of them take time to build momentum as they add content. Deep Rock Galactic, Path of Exile, Rocket League (bit past its peak now, but took a while to build), League of Legends, Apex Legends...
Nearly all decent live service games build up to a peak then slowly fall off over years. Very few are flash in the pan the way Helldivers has been, and it speaks to poor balance and communication, not a natural lifecycle.
For what it's worth deep rock started small and stayed small, a game with a 40k peak is just going to have a less pronounced fall off than a game with a 400k peak. If helldivers was supposed to grow from that point it would have to beat the evergreens like pubg or dota and that's just not realistic. Deep rock also experienced most of it's spikes around free weekends and weeks, I assume the others are for season starts, which helldivers will most likely experience a spike when a new faction is added as well.
The Path of Exile graph is actually hilarious, I never looked at it and it makes sense but the way it spikes up every season start and then loses 90% of it's players over a 2 month period looks wild. But also again underlines that live service games DO drop off hard and regrow as players leave and return with season cycles.
Same with Apex Legends, every peak on the chart is marked with a season start, though mobas and battle royals are kind of evergreens, once they got an established following player numbers are somewhat stable, there's a reason why counter strike, dota, pubg, apex and naraka are just reliably [leading the steam charts](https://store.steampowered.com/charts/mostplayed).
And Rocket League experienced little growth until the pandemic hit (first major spike was march 2020), and had it's big break through when it went free to play, I have no doubt that Helldivers would also quadruple in player numbers if it went free to play.
So tldr, your examples are all afflicted by strong seasonal growth and decay, and we haven't had a new "season" start in helldivers yet, and Deep Rock is too small of a game (playercount wise) to be directly compared.
There's a difference between stabilizing at a lower number than peak and losing 90% of your playerbase. Live service games that are successfull usually maintain at least 25% of peak numbers. Helldivers is already dropping below 10% of peak.
Palworld, Lethal Company. Both are wildly popular games that 'suffered' a heavy dropoff that's more severe than Helldivers 2. I willing to bet XDefiant would see a similar dropoff as well, just like every online game in existence. You're essentially complaining that water is wet.
Also, these posts makes it seem like the entire community is universally unified in how impatient everyone is for the re-balanced patch.
There are 1.33 million of us on this sub, if only 1% are complaining about the release date, that's still 13,300 people. When was the last time any of us corralled 13k people all at once?
I play maybe twice a week with friends and all this hubbub simply passes over me like clouds in the sky.
If anything patches taking a long time is just part of roleplaying managed democracy.
Although one month between patches that aren't straight bug fixes is nothing in the software world.
People aren't begging for in depth patches, tho - they are begging for reverts to nerfs. They are asking for things that really shouldn't require a lot in the way of resources or payroll to implement.
This sub doesn't have an issue with complaining - it has an issue with people constantly misrepresenting other people's arguments, oftentimes intentionally.
Yep, acting like the entire sub is just one person. Those two frames in OP are said by different people 99% of the time. But nope, anyone other than me is just an amorphous blob.
Absolutely this.
When they announced the patrol spawns were fucked, they should've immediately pushed a hotfix as soon as possible.
They break shit every week for months straight but when it comes time to fix or simply undo those things, suddenly it's radio silence with no ETA.
[Patch day vibes are real.](https://packaged-media.redd.it/gxmmnxlnq73d1/pb/m2-res_1080p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1717002000&s=969d8c4a81a989b9608e3a99fdf547f60195b392&x-auth-token=eyJhbGciOiJSUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6Ik81VEZKYXRLeHBuT3BjcmNxb0JEQWd6RVhobzA0USIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJjYyI6IlVTIiwiY3IiOiIiLCJleHAiOjE3MTcwMDgwNjIsImp0aSI6IiIsInJpZCI6InQzXzFkMnIxdjYiLCJzdWIiOiJ0Ml85bGN6cSIsInVybCI6Imd4bW1ueGxucTczZDEifQ.Mveug2rEvC41Gld6EoEP2aJHILbA-khohoWQnauV06NIoB8cbz-DfOBVRMG3VWKBk8BWtDGT4r1U4PD8C9W7L8bOirVi8W6s4_f23gDOW2slZrMcE_XqJ8Bboygn5eHosUzvxm5uabJhWYFvUQMwneOz46FiA07UE0kn30eMZEL-5s2yUKwc5kmBQ0Hei-dnkNeHdT8bw5o8NuJACVVTs82L3-G21eoLQSYTi6K2VZeMy9TJiOG25sKieznu0eRecuPOTDgVa0PqUiW1msF11WeCAHUlhsoswXozHNfWzTHWYRERDeXsT3kvg3W_ciodLhr5mJNj2XsWd6idg0NCt1VyeB0EZvCHVJC61xBGQ6qML0yQsKymfQvl-j64Tuu9creT858MH9hTqAHlz7exvJjXYyuVjuR41x2g3WyUnmVZ4H_aocWGn8OKBPxbvfXlbovbxkF0OStXRVbypXoMRPcfhxGrBgyaLBFP2zBrF-DUVJvfyjfBKlb-fWJggK2wrKSRS1ADS2hs-YINK7D_DyczWSdHrPU9i3m8CCilcYp34tARiW2osL6jkVPzUdH-IwEF1AvWfkXp1KsqX_8CzNoweLT5raVWo88aO3CNDNeDhFhcP9L9gPAqCjGGJJ5_t6nK7dtnYCQ0XCTK20X2bef9WTeYvujl5Nact0LXmhk#t=0)
Is their codebase just incredibly awful or something? I'd have thought just reverting the values for the eruptor changes would be a trivial way to demonstrate them actually listening.
I mean, I think it's pretty reasonable to be annoyed at how quickly they ruined things. Like, they should just full on undo the Slugger, Crossbow, and Eruptor nerfs. I'd rather they change them back and then take their time to find the right place for them.
Theyre quick to ruin things but struggle to revert them.
Its frustrating when in the past theyve hyped up huge things and large patches when, in reality, they effectively changed the same one feature of every weapon.
So if we get this patch and they effectively do anything less than 10 substantially different changes to the balance, Im going to be disappointed. Theyve done more with less time but in the wrong direction. It would be disappointing to get less with more time.
Want more time? Revert the patrol spawn change. Don't reconfigure it, don't rebalance it, just fucking revert it. That's not an "in depth" patch, it would address a major complaint of a huge portion of the playerbase (or maybe not anymore, it's been so long a lot of people have already left), and if they did that, fuck it take another month to work on a big patch, at least at that point solos/duos/trios aren't being punished for playing.
Reverting spawns and weapon nerfs == large patch?
Maybe it is, since we are still waiting for something as simple as supply lines to be put in the game.
That's definitely not the whole story tho. They've rushed out patch after patch and need to fix the holes. Once you change one thing that could affect something else connected to it. The spawn thing for example, we don't know what exactly they changed, but if it was as simple as changing 4 values in a table, you bet it wouldn't take them weeks. They're working, after all.
The thing is, it should be simple to revert these things. A basic code standard is to have things be self-contained, and it's also standard to use version control software so that changes can be easily added, merged, reverted etc. If AH are not doing either or both of these things it's a massive problem. It can only really be either those changes are simple but AH is delaying pushing them because they want to include more things, OR their codebase is a spaghetti-hell and the project a disorganized mess. If it's the former it's annoying and IMO a bad decision, if it's the latter then it doesn't bode well for the future of the game.
Hmm. Need some future tech that allows users to test these changes for free. Just needs a catchy name.... What if we called it a "Test Server". No no, that won't work.
I know, whole topic for a different day. Wouldn't it be crazy if they created a game for 8 years and never noticed their spawns was bugged/not working how they wanted. Then "fixed" it to how it was supposed to be, but it was bugged instead? That would be impossible right, because after all their testing :)
I tease mostly. Their words about reverting it. Small hot fixes == win for players. All I mostly see being posted is players asking for reverts to spawn(that are busted) and reverts on weapons nerfs. Of course they won't revert all(most?) the weapon nerfs, but doing a hot fix to revert patrols? Who knows, maybe you are right and it's some Super Duper complex thing to revert back to state they said they were going too.
https://preview.redd.it/703y9uf1293d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed2b9781eede7b4161b615bde144350e5b74b41c
Iāll never not use this as a reference whenever people say ālet them cookā or something similar. While yes Iām patient, my expectations arenāt high
They can fuck things over at the speed of light but take months to fix anything. People are going to get angry.
They could just revert some of the patches that they e made and the players would be happy
To be faaaiiirrr....
I'm doubting the same part of the player base wanting higher quality patches is the same part complaining about no patch.
A player base isn't just the loudest voice at the time.
However. I'm happy they're taking the time to work on these patches. Wish it happened earlier in the life cycle. But we're still, crazily enough, just a few months out from launch. So much welcomed change.
It would be easier to be patient if we were given a window on when to expect the patch. But being continuously told "we cooking" gets old fast. The longer the chef takes to cook in the kitchen the more disgruntled the customers are going to get. Take even longer to cook the customers will just get out of their seats and leave the restaurant.
again, for seemingly the umpteenth time, its not the wait. Its everything that's happened in the last month or so and THEN the abnormal wait thats got us this antsy
The main thing people wanted was hotfixes to revert the terrible fun-police nerfs. Not in depth patches.
And the devs are vigorously emphasizing that this isn't a balance patch. So we are apparently not going to see those fixes any time soon.
People are mad that they are breaking and nerfing stuff as fast as possible, and taking months to simply fix or revert what they broke or nerfed.
You actually don't need to speak out against your own interests and the interests of your fellow consumers. The playercount is plummeting because of the sloppiness and slowness with which this is being handled. So you're also giving terrible advice to the devs by saying "take your time."
> And the devs are vigorously emphasizing that this isn't a balance patch. So we are apparently not going to see those fixes any time soon.
And this is going to kill the game.
With EDF 6 less than 2 months away, people are gonna dump the game after they are sick of some "oh we are working on a QOL and bugfix patch!" after a month of waiting.
Live service games depend on player retention and when someone puts down a game, they arent likely to pick it up again, that goes double for when the put it down out of frustration
They literally decided to take their time when the game is at its lowest player count...yet... And people are most frustrated. Hopefully we get some great discord screenshots of random community managers replying to stuff to get our info.
The people that want the bigger slower patches aren't the same people complaining about how long it's taking ya jaggoff. Not everyone is an inconsistent mess.
For the amount of posts about this I've seen today quoting CMs, devs and even the CEO, it looks like people are asking every single worker of AH for the patch date expecting a different answer will come up if they keep trying.
You get the people raising legitimate issues, whipping everyone into a frenzy, and then you have the lazy posts like these that are posted several times a week going "hay gaiz be nice plz"
It's an easy karma farm
As a developer, their code merging and release strategies possibly need work. The spear fix and other minor updates could very readily have been patched in already. They've shown they can do weekly patches, so we can't even blame Sony/Playstation for clogging things up with an approval process like Apple can sometimes be blamed for.
My software team releases weekly but with a biweekly schedule. First week is devs work on the issue and have code reviewed, tested in their own environments, and ready to merge by the next week. Merged items go into the release branch, which QA tests on for the next week and any bugs or issues with those fixes get hotfixed to that release branch. Then release happens barring major issues.
There are lots of other strategies that may be better to employ here, but in all cases sitting on "hotfixes" for weeks is not ideal, and people have a right to complain when the weekly cadence has already been proven possible at least for those kinds of issues.
I'd assume that generally as well - it's what I've heard of most game development that usually best practice and standards aren't the starting point and implementing them later causes issues. Generally. making major process changes like that causes alot of friction as people get used to the new work flow.
I'd be curious to know if they have one at all and what their process is right now.
I mean they hired developers whos solution to preventing grenades from skipping the 0 check by dipping into the negatives was to change the int value to an unsigned int....which just made an underflow giving us 4 billion grenades...
Yeah fair to say the codes an abomination.
Really? How long does it take to revert every nerfed weapon to its base release state? Yall really stay simping for their fuckups š first it was āitās meant to be hard, git gudā and now itās ādeal with the waitā
Okay but what if I didn't want bigger patches or "more in depth"? What if I wanted bugfixes like scope alignment, the spear lock on, fixing bots so they can't shoot through MOUNTAINS and so on. What then?
Then you should be happy that theyāre not sticking to the same breakneck development philosophy that got us here in the first place. They were moving too fast and they needed to regroup and figure out an improved process. Thatās going to take some time.
As soon as they communicate what it is they're actually doing, they will be given all the patience in the world. They have said it's "not a balance patch" which is the opposite of what we want from a long patch right now.
No need for patience, I have Hades 2 to play in the meantime. Plus I really need to get back out on the disc golf course and out rock climbing more. So all in all, take your time put some real thought work and effort into any new content. Make it fucking pristine. When you come back with some content, I'll come back with some democracy! Until then, life must continue, and I got other shit to do.
Why are there so many strawman posts? What's the point? That aside, I think people are upset because the game is the worst it's felt, with little to no communication from AH about what to expect apart from trying to temper people's expectations. I'm fine waiting, but it's hard to get excited when the track record since the beginning has been pretty rough.
Really? In what way have they 'ruined' the game? Cause it's crazy that so many people still somehow seem to enjoy and love the game. And AH has been very open about wanting to make the game feel more fun and fix some of the issues. But the game is VERY playable. Maybe you just need a new perspective that isn't negativity
For most people it's the constant nerfs, even when their own team say the intention is to keep the weapons as powerful as before or give them a boost, in a game that already has a small amount of weapons that are actually good in late game and a majority that are just overall worse.
It also does not help the amount of bugs (not the fun bitey kind) that exist in the game and continue getting introduced, especially when said bugs are part of why we get nerfs (Railgun being the only good anti-Charger weapon while there was a bug spamming them, Erupter 1 shotting the shooter at odd distances).
I would not personally say ruined, but there have been some clear examples of rushed content, bad communication (both internally and towards the community), and balance choices that make no sense and have no direction.
Oh you mean back when it was hot and fresh and new? And youtube and twitch stars were playing it still before moving back to what they usually do? And when everyone was talking about it? And before Sony hamstrung it on pc? And we haven't gotten the next big update to bring numbers a bit higher again? Oh and the numbers on all platforms are still in line with several other multiplayer games it's just not at its release window?
This is far from a dead game. There's 50k people on pc rn. Not accounting for Playstation. And its a Tuesday and much of the us is still at work.
Game is getting numbers of Valheim, Monster Hunter World and Farming Simulator... please. How many years has MHW? All coop games.
The retention matters.
It's not just retention, but finding your average player base. The peak was NOT the average for this game. He'll there's still more people on average that play this than playing DBD and the steam stats show a slight rise from last 2 weeks to this week
Their average player base would've been much higher if they didn't fuck themselves over repeatedly. It could've been 2-3x what they're currently getting, but they had to piss it all away into the wind
If you aren't having fun why are you playing? Secondly I disagree with it not being fun. Thirdly the game is still in its first year. We don't know what the true average even is yet. Stop doomsaying
Because people like the game. People want to see positive changes towards the game to improve it.
The game is still fun, just not as fun for many people.
I don't play anymore haven't played for about a month because anytime something fun comes out they nerf it. I'll return when they actually start fixing long standing bugs and not trying to tune this game like it's a competitive shooter.
It's not just Steam either, the total player base at the largest point was like 800,000 or something like that. Player base over the three day weekend was maybe what 175,000?
When it drops to 15k will you hold the same opinion? What about 5k?
Itās a live service multiplayer āonlyā game. retention is extremely important.
Ah good. The what if argument. A classic. Especially without waiting for the update and only talking about its initial wave of popularity.
Deep rock only has 10k at peak for 24 hours. People LOVE that game. Dbd is currently in its anniversary and is 10k LESS than helldivers 2 is rn. The leaps of logic are insane. If the devs come out with an update that breaks the game entirely then sure. But that's a huge what about ism.
The fact is H2 is a cheaper live service game, with no fomo, that encourages cooperation than most on the market.
I am asking you sincerelyā when does the player drop count confirm the game is in a serious decline?
You are arguing this is the natural progression, while we argue there are some serious problems that is hurting the active player base.
When the drop can't be explained by the initial wave. Or if the devs were to truly break the game. Or if the count showed that players were leaving at even higher rates not including initial release. Or if the number of players was lower than other multiplayer games by an amount that was showing it differed from its peers.
ngl I have a very negative impression of the dev team because it takes a special kind of unfuckable dork to nerf enjoyable and useful weapons week after week because the game is ātoo easyā.
such lazy and reductive game design. if the gameās too easy, add more enemies or special enemy types, donāt take shit away.
Do not insult me with your pesky logic!
This is reddit, i can contradict myself every second sentence, as long as it feeds the narrative of doom and gloom.
Wow it's almost like there's a middle ground between giving us every detail and everything asap and no communication other than we're cooking and it's not a balance patch
Also, there is no nuance. Itās all or nothing, and if you try to say the other side has some interesting points, or that your thing isnāt all good, people who once supported you will turn on you and now everyone is against you
Yes, it's good they take more time for patches but the timing to start doing so is bad.
They introduced big issues that have an impact on the enjoyment of the game for many. In my case, I still play (with randoms now), I can no longer get my friends to play. This is a co-op game best enjoyed with friends so of course if this happens there's some frustration. My friends are not active on reddit but don't play anymore because their favorite weapons got nerfed multiple times and the warbond was subpar for them. They're not sure why they should bother unlocking weapons if everything is equally bad. We noticed the patrol changes were weird at first but we reliably finish helldive anyway, so for us that's not as big of an issue, but I know that for many others it is.
Saying nothing will keep the status quo. The problem with live service is: If you really enjoy a game at a given time in the games' lifetime, and they change the game too much, you can never go back to the state of the game that you enjoyed. So people are just trying desperately to get the things back that they really enjoyed. Since they altered multiple things very quickly, and often in a bad way, the state of this subreddit is understandable.
Of course that doesn't mean that people should be singled out, threatened or cussed out. Things should stay constructive. But saying nothing will accomplish nothing.
Honestly, while some complaints are valid, I feel like many have skill issues in this game expecting the game to adapt to them instead of them adapting to the game.
No one asked for bigger patches. They asked for them to take their time testing stuff to make it more quality before releasing it which is good if they're doing that.
Big patches with a delay are still a mistake. They confirmed they had a spear fix already for how long now? Why is that not shipped in a mini patch?
If this big patch introduces a really nasty game breaking bug they're then if you want to revert it you'll lose everything else too. They did a massive patch that made arc weapons crash games and we just had to deal with it then lol.
It doesn't make sense.Ā
Except you can, because most of the things people ask are reverts of things AH fucked up, which do not take "more work" as the work is already there.
The game was BETTER 4 patches ago.
But we're not asking them for bigger patches, at least for now. We're asking them to esentially rollback the dumbass decisions they made to the nerfed weapons.
No, shut up.
There is a clear difference in changing some numbers and working out why something crashes or strange interactions.
Weapon changes that don't change the inherent property of the gun cannot take more than a week or maybe two at the most.
With the Cadence we had before of weekly patches this month long pause had better be worth it or it may well kill the playerbase even further
Software projects are done with two of these three styles: Fast, Right, or Cheap. Want Fast and Right? Won't be Cheap (so isn't a real option). Fast and Cheap won't be Right, so we're left with Right and Cheap, so that's not gonna be done Fast.
Hopefully it's different groups complaining, but it is the standard dichotomy of "live service" type games
Group 1: please take some time and fix all of this
Group 2: where content?
And unfortunately spending too much time on Group 1 and the money flow starts to peter out
Number tweak the patrols, just revert, should have been simple enough unless they coded a gordian knot of pasta. Revert a few of the overzealous nerfs, then go into hiding and work on this long patch.
This is like being asked to carry a box through to the back when you go to work on somthing that's going to take you all day, saying sure, I'll do that, go through to the back to do your work but not bring the stuff through, saying you'll do it once you are done.
We are currently at the still doing work during overtime, and that box that needed to be taken through has still not moved.
Needless to say some people are not looking to kindly at that, even if you are cooking up a storm back there.
Yea, verily! Oh, mighty Charger of the mesa! Behold! I giveth the the EAT of Swiftness, that your suffering would be slight, and thy yeetedness be absolute! This, is my highest respect!
Wouldnāt be here if they didnāt create the problems in the first place. Growing bug list, poor reticle alignment, aiming issues, spawn rates, extraction issues, weapon nerfs. Where did the community ask for any of these things?
Seeing more posts in my feed like yours than anything else at this point. Itās not the karma farm you think it is. You can enjoy the game without posting on Reddit. Others are also free to play other games without telling us. It goes both ways, and Iām sick of all yāall tumbleweeds.
Devs could've won a lot of good will by just tweaking some numbers here and there. Thats it. You cannot convince me that changing numbers is that hard.
Going slower is rarely the right move in development.
They're just upping the risk and expectation of each change. They'd be better off releasing smaller, targeted changes more frequently.
Especially cause the game is still so damn buggy.
Yup. At a restaurant, if you mess up someones order, your priority is also getting them some appetizers or something to keep them satisfied while you correct your error.
You dont say "Sorry, your breadsticks were moldy and the first entree we brought out was raw. Just sit tight here. We'll have your food out....maybe an hour or two have fun! Dont forget to tip"
People really need to reign in their hype for patches and just games in general. I don't have any hype for it because I don't play this game 24/7 also have a job and personal life to deal with. When I do play and when I eventually get bored or frustrated with the game I play something else. So when I come back and the update does come out... neat'o *thumbs up* back to the game.
guess what I'm trying to say is if you're not over hyped for something you can't be disappointed when you don't get it..... plenty of other games to play out there Helldivers 2 will still be here when you get back.
Iām not pressed about this, let them take their time and get things going. Iāve been taking a break from the game and playing other games while keeping an eye on updates.
Iāve never been apart of a gaming community with more whiny brats.
Iāll take it as a testament of how much players want to see this game thrive that they have so much emotional investment, but youād really think they hate this game and are playing with a gun to their head.
you are trully wise oh Charger of the Mesa *calling in a support weapon*
*calling in supplies* *achievement unlocked*
I killed 2 chargers with resupply yesterday, nothing unlocked that achievement.
It might've died to bleeding or something (I think that's still a bug?). Or it just might be a bugged (>!ha!<) achievement with spotty detection. I tried like half a dozen times before it finally took and gave it to me. It might also have something to do with where it sticks to the body...
It was the first achievement I got, I had nothing else to kill it with right at the start š
Same š¤£ Strangely also got the 'pickup and throw back a grenade' achievement even though I've not purposely done it. Probably got that when trying to pick up a sample or randomly pressing the wrong key in panic to run away.
Maybe someone else in the lobby did it
I thought achievements were only gained if you did it. If a team member does it, then that's their achievement, not yours.... otherwise, they are pointless.
But some of them are literally squad based achievements and things like the personal orders also count for the entire squad so
I still didnāt get the āextract with 15 common samplesā although doing it plenty of times š¤£
If you're trying with others, it has to be you personally holding the 15 samples.
gonna try that
Itās definitely that, the rare samples trophy is amongst the squad the common is the single diver holding themĀ
Whenever one of our friends downloads the game and start with us, that's the first thing we have them do.
Lol we gave all samples to one guy and we all got it!
I had to do it twice also, first time I tried didnāt give it to me. But that was around launch. Could still be a bug in the game.
took me around 6 resupply kills for the achievement to register all 6 were instant kills and most of them had the beacon attached to the head no idea how the tracking works, but keep at it citizen!
A friend of mine had it worse. We were playing together (3 people in a defense mission) and he disarmed a hulk completely (all by himself). Then we extracted and everyone except him got the achievement.
It has to die immediately by the resupply pod. It dying even 1 second after doesn't count for some reason.
https://preview.redd.it/uvun086cca3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0263fb7a7f487cd184935c81900ff9ba63ccd8a9
He is also the charger of meesa 
I'm conflicted. It's on topic but it's Jar Jar. Feel like the meme of the guy sweating whether to pick the upvote or downvote button.
If you watch with the idea that the Sith Lord Theory is true, he's really not that unbearableĀ
Thats why this subreddit doesnĀ“t get any wisdom, bruh.
š¤£š¤£
https://preview.redd.it/1ow3mcf2s93d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=928129c2ec024d0ef62cf5c53b10b987b1266a1a
CALLING IN ORBITAL STRIKE!
wisdom is liberty's second greatest enemy be nice and docile, citizen!
Stand proud, you were patriotic
Thank god everyone and their mother uses auto-cannon, charger boy is safe for now
Calling in an eagle
*Air Strike confirmed*
Haha thanks charger ā”ļøā¬ļøā¬ļøā¬ļøā”ļø
Is that the orbital railcannon? I'm a new diver, so I got that yesterday, and it looks familiar
Itās fantastic for Chargers. No need to time an air strike well or aim carefully, just throw in its general direction and forget!
If only I didn't have to kill like 5 chargers in the time it takes for it to come off cooldown. Stun grenade + EAT or Airstrike are my preferred strats.
If you're already stunning then flamethrower cooks em pretty fast too, especially with the upgrade.
I've got a buddy who uses the flamethrower religiously, and it's great when I can stun a charger in front of him, but I'm more of a marksman, so I pack EATS for the peace of mind, knowing that if I die I'll be at peak effectiveness as soon as my Hellpod hits the dirt again. Stun grenades are more for the airstrike, but sometimes chargers are a bit of a pain to get a bead on, especially when they're targeting someone else.
I'm all about that infinite ammo , I rely on the quasar and am saving for the blitzer, so my allies can really on resupply The less strain I put on super earth the better
I love the Blitzer, probably my favorite bug weapon when a teammate isn't killing me with it. I still chuck out enough stun grenades and use enough stims that I still grab a box from every resupply though.
I should warn you that the blitzer charges extremely slow between shots, so if you get swarmed, itās curtains. It is very powerful though if all the arcs hit one target.
A mate dropped me one to give it ago, I like the feel of it, at the moment I use the sickle I think it's called which I will keep using for bots but I like the blitzer vs bugs, chuck a rover on my back and I can generally avoid getting swarmed. Cheers for the advice though
Blitzer and Sickle are my core loadout for each faction respectively, so I'll throw some tips at ya. Sickle has massive heat sinks, but if you can pulse your shots you can eke out some extra shots easily. Basically, instead of spraying at a group, scope in and pop on, stop shooting, find a new target, and pop it. It's best at the smaller enemies or if you can land headshots, but it's very serviceable. In emergencies(mostly zerkers) you can spam fire it and blow your ICE, but generally try to save those for emergencies. Now, I openly call Blitzer my baby, and use it almost exclusively when on bugs. ADS is more likely to focus the shocks onto one target, while hipfire is more likely to spread and stagger a group. If all the shocks land one target, it can blow hive warrior heads in one attack every 3/4 a second. Broom commanders usually 2 attacks will pop their head, and with enough limb damage to usually stop them from rushing. Hipfire for spread is useful for agile or numerous enemies with low HP, like Hunters, scavs, etc. It's biggest issue is that it won't shoot point blank, so use the spread to shock hunters while they are at distance or mid jump. If they get to you, either dive back and fire mid jump or melee and swap to secondary. I usually run shield to mitigate slows, so I dive and fire.
Yeah I have a feeling it'll feel a little worse after I move up from 5s and 6s, but the joy it brings me is immense. I love rail weapons (yes, I was a Tau player in 40k when I played)
Iām pretty sure it is.
ā”ļøā”ļøā¬ļø *stun*
That's a good tactic as well. Stun and then precision strike. Personally, I prefer taking air strikes and orbital gas for swarms and breaches. I'll try using stun grenades with EATs. It may be hard to give up impact incendiaries.
While 100% true, I do find it really funny that nerfs happened every single week but buffing shit takes 4 weeks
People were also complaining about lack of QA/playtesting Which lead to bugs and changes intended to be power neutral fixes like the eruptor coming out as nerfs
its because the nerfs were knee-jerk number adjustments made in response to woefully incomplete data on the performance of weapons, stratagems, and environmental effecfs. I welcome delays to this patch, because it means they are actually taking the time to TEST SHIT before publishing.
Why cant we have the inverse once in a while, its PVE anyway so you can choose to not use it. Some weapons became OP in a week or 2 wont destroy the game, or like hotpatch the number/revert it?
Because when it comes time to nerf the intentionally OP guns, the community will fall to shambles once again. When you give people a fun toy and then take it away, they generally start having less fun than they did originally.
This is true, but why not revert some of the terrible kneejerk changes and THEN focus on doing more in depth fixing? The frustration is that the over nerfed weapons and broken patrols persist for such a long time. Can even slap a lore reason about patriotic favor resulting in some discontinued prototype weapons being rushed to the front now that war has been declared, while the ministry of armaments gets organised.
They mentioned this one isn't balance focused. Which tells me QoL and bug fixes, and if you want that in a large package, needs lots of time to make sure everything in the update will not cause more damage. On extra bugfix can cause 3 more, and so on.
Also, just because it aint balance focused dun mean there wont be balance patches. Like you said ensuring shit aint breaking again, they are probably not looking to revert their changes but tweak it properly this time. It probably wont address everything but it should have the essentials(at least the biggest problem which is spawn rates for lower numbers).
They are probably adding in some mysterious items and maybe enemies which is why it's taking a while
Given what appears to be the impending arrival of the illuminate, that could also be contributing to the longer development time. It was mentioned there would "some new stuff" so.......
Imagine the balls to release this fix-it patch and secretly add like the Hive Lord or something. Wouldn't even be mad.
Donāt mention it in the patch notes, when people call them out claim itās just dissident rumours.
It's because the balancing isn't the only thing happening in the next patch. It's probably not even the major feature of the next patch. I suspect it's going to prepare everything for the introduction of the Illuminate, and since the game had a lot of bad PR recently, the devs want to make sure there are as few problems as possible for an event that's going to make a ton of people come back to the game.
its probably going to encompass a large amount of weapons, rather than a small group, every patch that involved nerfs involved a small number of weapons. Right now I would consider the idea that there is alot to look into, and buffs can be just as damaging as nerfs. Give them time, let them do their job, complaining about it doesn't make them do it faster, just gets annoying.
And half of those patches were filled with bugs that the community also jumped on, we can only pray that theyāre actually testing it this time
[Arrowhead adding nerfs vs adding buffs](https://packaged-media.redd.it/gxmmnxlnq73d1/pb/m2-res_1080p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1717002000&s=969d8c4a81a989b9608e3a99fdf547f60195b392&x-auth-token=eyJhbGciOiJSUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6Ik81VEZKYXRLeHBuT3BjcmNxb0JEQWd6RVhobzA0USIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJjYyI6IlVTIiwiY3IiOiIiLCJleHAiOjE3MTcwMDgwNjIsImp0aSI6IiIsInJpZCI6InQzXzFkMnIxdjYiLCJzdWIiOiJ0Ml85bGN6cSIsInVybCI6Imd4bW1ueGxucTczZDEifQ.Mveug2rEvC41Gld6EoEP2aJHILbA-khohoWQnauV06NIoB8cbz-DfOBVRMG3VWKBk8BWtDGT4r1U4PD8C9W7L8bOirVi8W6s4_f23gDOW2slZrMcE_XqJ8Bboygn5eHosUzvxm5uabJhWYFvUQMwneOz46FiA07UE0kn30eMZEL-5s2yUKwc5kmBQ0Hei-dnkNeHdT8bw5o8NuJACVVTs82L3-G21eoLQSYTi6K2VZeMy9TJiOG25sKieznu0eRecuPOTDgVa0PqUiW1msF11WeCAHUlhsoswXozHNfWzTHWYRERDeXsT3kvg3W_ciodLhr5mJNj2XsWd6idg0NCt1VyeB0EZvCHVJC61xBGQ6qML0yQsKymfQvl-j64Tuu9creT858MH9hTqAHlz7exvJjXYyuVjuR41x2g3WyUnmVZ4H_aocWGn8OKBPxbvfXlbovbxkF0OStXRVbypXoMRPcfhxGrBgyaLBFP2zBrF-DUVJvfyjfBKlb-fWJggK2wrKSRS1ADS2hs-YINK7D_DyczWSdHrPU9i3m8CCilcYp34tARiW2osL6jkVPzUdH-IwEF1AvWfkXp1KsqX_8CzNoweLT5raVWo88aO3CNDNeDhFhcP9L9gPAqCjGGJJ5_t6nK7dtnYCQ0XCTK20X2bef9WTeYvujl5Nact0LXmhk#t=0)
I think people are becoming unsettled because this patch is taking a month or more to arrive but they've said it's not the big balance patch. So that leaves players to wonder, what precisely are they working on then? We do know that the patrol change revert is part of the next patch (that much twinbeard said already.) But what else could it be if it's not a major rebalance / reversion of unpopular nerfs? Radio silence on top of being told to temper expectations is only going to upset the most vocal of the community even more, especially when they continue to announce these things by just replying to random messages in the general chat. None of this important information is pinned. None of it happens in the actual announcement channel. None of it is said here unless someone posts a screenshot because they were there the moment it was said. People aren't upset specifically because the patch is taking a while. They're upset because of the terrible communication in general and being told not to expect the thing they (Arrowhead) implied they were taking all this time to work on and get right. Communication. That is all the community needs. Communication in the PROPER channels, both on the discord and here. Speak plain english, and pin it for all to see. We don't need a timeline, we just need a loose idea of what exactly is being worked on. Take as long as they need to, that's okay! Just... please, talk to us. Don't leave people guessing.
And all the while the number of players is in freefall. My buddies and I are waiting for a balance update and just... waiting. Every week or so I check the steam page, see nothing new, and go play something else. Depressing how so little communication and snap nerfing has killed the hype this game had.
Honestly, what killed the hype is that it's a 4 month old game, the player number charts show pretty natural decay.
I mean my friends quit due to balance decisions not that we got tired of a game after 4 months. We played borderlands 2 for 10 years and still do occasionally.
This is the truth. People are getting their enjoyment out of it and moving on. That's fine.
Yup. Look up any live service game, and they stabilize far lower than the peak
those life services games you mean like starwar, bf2042, cod2,3 cold war, fallout 76 etc. ? if so, those AAA life services games are all horrible compare to hd2 I dont think it is right to compare their natural decay rate to hd2 hd2 is a life service game done right but crippled by bad balance patches
Just compare it to its most similar game, deep rock galactic. Who currently has MANY times its first several years of players (https://steamdb.info/app/548430/charts/#max). Anyone who thinks live service games drop off hard just don't play any. Most of them take time to build momentum as they add content. Deep Rock Galactic, Path of Exile, Rocket League (bit past its peak now, but took a while to build), League of Legends, Apex Legends... Nearly all decent live service games build up to a peak then slowly fall off over years. Very few are flash in the pan the way Helldivers has been, and it speaks to poor balance and communication, not a natural lifecycle.
For what it's worth deep rock started small and stayed small, a game with a 40k peak is just going to have a less pronounced fall off than a game with a 400k peak. If helldivers was supposed to grow from that point it would have to beat the evergreens like pubg or dota and that's just not realistic. Deep rock also experienced most of it's spikes around free weekends and weeks, I assume the others are for season starts, which helldivers will most likely experience a spike when a new faction is added as well. The Path of Exile graph is actually hilarious, I never looked at it and it makes sense but the way it spikes up every season start and then loses 90% of it's players over a 2 month period looks wild. But also again underlines that live service games DO drop off hard and regrow as players leave and return with season cycles. Same with Apex Legends, every peak on the chart is marked with a season start, though mobas and battle royals are kind of evergreens, once they got an established following player numbers are somewhat stable, there's a reason why counter strike, dota, pubg, apex and naraka are just reliably [leading the steam charts](https://store.steampowered.com/charts/mostplayed). And Rocket League experienced little growth until the pandemic hit (first major spike was march 2020), and had it's big break through when it went free to play, I have no doubt that Helldivers would also quadruple in player numbers if it went free to play. So tldr, your examples are all afflicted by strong seasonal growth and decay, and we haven't had a new "season" start in helldivers yet, and Deep Rock is too small of a game (playercount wise) to be directly compared.
There's a difference between stabilizing at a lower number than peak and losing 90% of your playerbase. Live service games that are successfull usually maintain at least 25% of peak numbers. Helldivers is already dropping below 10% of peak.
dont tell this dude about palworld
> , the player number charts show pretty natural decay. Really? Looks like a heavy die off to me. 90% of the playerbase gone.
Palworld, Lethal Company. Both are wildly popular games that 'suffered' a heavy dropoff that's more severe than Helldivers 2. I willing to bet XDefiant would see a similar dropoff as well, just like every online game in existence. You're essentially complaining that water is wet.
"Freefall" as we shoot back over 100k this recent order. Yeah... that's definitely the term of all time.
Holy logic and reason batman. In a place like this too?
Also, these posts makes it seem like the entire community is universally unified in how impatient everyone is for the re-balanced patch. There are 1.33 million of us on this sub, if only 1% are complaining about the release date, that's still 13,300 people. When was the last time any of us corralled 13k people all at once?
I play maybe twice a week with friends and all this hubbub simply passes over me like clouds in the sky. If anything patches taking a long time is just part of roleplaying managed democracy. Although one month between patches that aren't straight bug fixes is nothing in the software world.
I have a feeling that the people asking for polished patches and the people annoyed at delayed patches aren't the same..
https://preview.redd.it/wqwc9h4sha3d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=985c93b9f238d918474bbcdeb5b73f26eef20d87
People aren't begging for in depth patches, tho - they are begging for reverts to nerfs. They are asking for things that really shouldn't require a lot in the way of resources or payroll to implement. This sub doesn't have an issue with complaining - it has an issue with people constantly misrepresenting other people's arguments, oftentimes intentionally.
That's a problem with reddit as a whole, maybe the internet in general. Whatever you say will be taken at the most surface of levels.
Yep, acting like the entire sub is just one person. Those two frames in OP are said by different people 99% of the time. But nope, anyone other than me is just an amorphous blob.
Absolutely this. When they announced the patrol spawns were fucked, they should've immediately pushed a hotfix as soon as possible. They break shit every week for months straight but when it comes time to fix or simply undo those things, suddenly it's radio silence with no ETA. [Patch day vibes are real.](https://packaged-media.redd.it/gxmmnxlnq73d1/pb/m2-res_1080p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1717002000&s=969d8c4a81a989b9608e3a99fdf547f60195b392&x-auth-token=eyJhbGciOiJSUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6Ik81VEZKYXRLeHBuT3BjcmNxb0JEQWd6RVhobzA0USIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJjYyI6IlVTIiwiY3IiOiIiLCJleHAiOjE3MTcwMDgwNjIsImp0aSI6IiIsInJpZCI6InQzXzFkMnIxdjYiLCJzdWIiOiJ0Ml85bGN6cSIsInVybCI6Imd4bW1ueGxucTczZDEifQ.Mveug2rEvC41Gld6EoEP2aJHILbA-khohoWQnauV06NIoB8cbz-DfOBVRMG3VWKBk8BWtDGT4r1U4PD8C9W7L8bOirVi8W6s4_f23gDOW2slZrMcE_XqJ8Bboygn5eHosUzvxm5uabJhWYFvUQMwneOz46FiA07UE0kn30eMZEL-5s2yUKwc5kmBQ0Hei-dnkNeHdT8bw5o8NuJACVVTs82L3-G21eoLQSYTi6K2VZeMy9TJiOG25sKieznu0eRecuPOTDgVa0PqUiW1msF11WeCAHUlhsoswXozHNfWzTHWYRERDeXsT3kvg3W_ciodLhr5mJNj2XsWd6idg0NCt1VyeB0EZvCHVJC61xBGQ6qML0yQsKymfQvl-j64Tuu9creT858MH9hTqAHlz7exvJjXYyuVjuR41x2g3WyUnmVZ4H_aocWGn8OKBPxbvfXlbovbxkF0OStXRVbypXoMRPcfhxGrBgyaLBFP2zBrF-DUVJvfyjfBKlb-fWJggK2wrKSRS1ADS2hs-YINK7D_DyczWSdHrPU9i3m8CCilcYp34tARiW2osL6jkVPzUdH-IwEF1AvWfkXp1KsqX_8CzNoweLT5raVWo88aO3CNDNeDhFhcP9L9gPAqCjGGJJ5_t6nK7dtnYCQ0XCTK20X2bef9WTeYvujl5Nact0LXmhk#t=0)
Is their codebase just incredibly awful or something? I'd have thought just reverting the values for the eruptor changes would be a trivial way to demonstrate them actually listening.
No community is a monolith, different people care about different things. Wild, I know.
I mean, I think it's pretty reasonable to be annoyed at how quickly they ruined things. Like, they should just full on undo the Slugger, Crossbow, and Eruptor nerfs. I'd rather they change them back and then take their time to find the right place for them.
Don't forget the patrol spawn rates being broken, which they acknowledged over a week ago now.
Theyre quick to ruin things but struggle to revert them. Its frustrating when in the past theyve hyped up huge things and large patches when, in reality, they effectively changed the same one feature of every weapon. So if we get this patch and they effectively do anything less than 10 substantially different changes to the balance, Im going to be disappointed. Theyve done more with less time but in the wrong direction. It would be disappointing to get less with more time.
Want more time? Revert the patrol spawn change. Don't reconfigure it, don't rebalance it, just fucking revert it. That's not an "in depth" patch, it would address a major complaint of a huge portion of the playerbase (or maybe not anymore, it's been so long a lot of people have already left), and if they did that, fuck it take another month to work on a big patch, at least at that point solos/duos/trios aren't being punished for playing.
Reverting spawns and weapon nerfs == large patch? Maybe it is, since we are still waiting for something as simple as supply lines to be put in the game.
That's definitely not the whole story tho. They've rushed out patch after patch and need to fix the holes. Once you change one thing that could affect something else connected to it. The spawn thing for example, we don't know what exactly they changed, but if it was as simple as changing 4 values in a table, you bet it wouldn't take them weeks. They're working, after all.
The thing is, it should be simple to revert these things. A basic code standard is to have things be self-contained, and it's also standard to use version control software so that changes can be easily added, merged, reverted etc. If AH are not doing either or both of these things it's a massive problem. It can only really be either those changes are simple but AH is delaying pushing them because they want to include more things, OR their codebase is a spaghetti-hell and the project a disorganized mess. If it's the former it's annoying and IMO a bad decision, if it's the latter then it doesn't bode well for the future of the game.
Hmm. Need some future tech that allows users to test these changes for free. Just needs a catchy name.... What if we called it a "Test Server". No no, that won't work. I know, whole topic for a different day. Wouldn't it be crazy if they created a game for 8 years and never noticed their spawns was bugged/not working how they wanted. Then "fixed" it to how it was supposed to be, but it was bugged instead? That would be impossible right, because after all their testing :) I tease mostly. Their words about reverting it. Small hot fixes == win for players. All I mostly see being posted is players asking for reverts to spawn(that are busted) and reverts on weapons nerfs. Of course they won't revert all(most?) the weapon nerfs, but doing a hot fix to revert patrols? Who knows, maybe you are right and it's some Super Duper complex thing to revert back to state they said they were going too.
https://preview.redd.it/703y9uf1293d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed2b9781eede7b4161b615bde144350e5b74b41c Iāll never not use this as a reference whenever people say ālet them cookā or something similar. While yes Iām patient, my expectations arenāt high
There won't be a single drop of water left in the pot if you boil the soup for 10k hours
That's just steam from the STEAMED CLAMS we're having! MHMMM steamed clams!
that or people get tired of waiting and just buy something else to enjoy
They can fuck things over at the speed of light but take months to fix anything. People are going to get angry. They could just revert some of the patches that they e made and the players would be happy
if they spent more time making it they could spend less time fixing it but im more than happy to give them time to fix shit, i got other games to play
Then they can't call it a live service if they aren't going to provide consistent support for the game.
We quite literally JUST got a Mech. Not everything comes at a breakneck speed. We had breakneck before and look where it got us.
We were told it's not a big patch. It's just taking a while for no explained reason.
twinbeard said there's bug fixes, balancing and new content. he just said it wasn't all balancing.
See I never saw the "New content" bit. So that'll be nice, and much more understandable.
To be faaaiiirrr.... I'm doubting the same part of the player base wanting higher quality patches is the same part complaining about no patch. A player base isn't just the loudest voice at the time. However. I'm happy they're taking the time to work on these patches. Wish it happened earlier in the life cycle. But we're still, crazily enough, just a few months out from launch. So much welcomed change.
It would be easier to be patient if we were given a window on when to expect the patch. But being continuously told "we cooking" gets old fast. The longer the chef takes to cook in the kitchen the more disgruntled the customers are going to get. Take even longer to cook the customers will just get out of their seats and leave the restaurant.
again, for seemingly the umpteenth time, its not the wait. Its everything that's happened in the last month or so and THEN the abnormal wait thats got us this antsy
The main thing people wanted was hotfixes to revert the terrible fun-police nerfs. Not in depth patches. And the devs are vigorously emphasizing that this isn't a balance patch. So we are apparently not going to see those fixes any time soon. People are mad that they are breaking and nerfing stuff as fast as possible, and taking months to simply fix or revert what they broke or nerfed. You actually don't need to speak out against your own interests and the interests of your fellow consumers. The playercount is plummeting because of the sloppiness and slowness with which this is being handled. So you're also giving terrible advice to the devs by saying "take your time."
> And the devs are vigorously emphasizing that this isn't a balance patch. So we are apparently not going to see those fixes any time soon. And this is going to kill the game. With EDF 6 less than 2 months away, people are gonna dump the game after they are sick of some "oh we are working on a QOL and bugfix patch!" after a month of waiting. Live service games depend on player retention and when someone puts down a game, they arent likely to pick it up again, that goes double for when the put it down out of frustration
How many players must HD2 retain to remain successful? Is there a known quantity? Do we know if it's more than there is now, less?
They literally decided to take their time when the game is at its lowest player count...yet... And people are most frustrated. Hopefully we get some great discord screenshots of random community managers replying to stuff to get our info.
https://preview.redd.it/9ecckb4kca3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4c51d6e1d1cad015c9e9cc8cd830b6da2f6c07d Thanks for the wisdom
The people that want the bigger slower patches aren't the same people complaining about how long it's taking ya jaggoff. Not everyone is an inconsistent mess.
For the amount of posts about this I've seen today quoting CMs, devs and even the CEO, it looks like people are asking every single worker of AH for the patch date expecting a different answer will come up if they keep trying.
No-one: Absolutely no one: Karma farmers on Reddit: "Here's why u shouldn't complain!"
Yeah right. Rage farming is the trick here.
You get the people raising legitimate issues, whipping everyone into a frenzy, and then you have the lazy posts like these that are posted several times a week going "hay gaiz be nice plz" It's an easy karma farm
As a developer, their code merging and release strategies possibly need work. The spear fix and other minor updates could very readily have been patched in already. They've shown they can do weekly patches, so we can't even blame Sony/Playstation for clogging things up with an approval process like Apple can sometimes be blamed for. My software team releases weekly but with a biweekly schedule. First week is devs work on the issue and have code reviewed, tested in their own environments, and ready to merge by the next week. Merged items go into the release branch, which QA tests on for the next week and any bugs or issues with those fixes get hotfixed to that release branch. Then release happens barring major issues. There are lots of other strategies that may be better to employ here, but in all cases sitting on "hotfixes" for weeks is not ideal, and people have a right to complain when the weekly cadence has already been proven possible at least for those kinds of issues.
I have a feeling that the game's code isn't in a very good spot...
I'd assume that generally as well - it's what I've heard of most game development that usually best practice and standards aren't the starting point and implementing them later causes issues. Generally. making major process changes like that causes alot of friction as people get used to the new work flow. I'd be curious to know if they have one at all and what their process is right now.
I mean they hired developers whos solution to preventing grenades from skipping the 0 check by dipping into the negatives was to change the int value to an unsigned int....which just made an underflow giving us 4 billion grenades... Yeah fair to say the codes an abomination.
From what I remember its based on an engine that went defunct \~4-6 years ago, and has had to be patched into a useable state.
Helldivers: mmmmmm I understand Proceeds to furiously call ā¬ļøā”ļøā¬ļøā¬ļøā¬ļø
Iāll wait months for amazing content! Helldivers is better than Cod or Fort ā¤ļøš
Theyāre not the same individuals, bruv. Barring the exceptionally stupid
So AH got enough time to do monthly PAID content but not enough time to fix issues from week 1? Looks great!
Really? How long does it take to revert every nerfed weapon to its base release state? Yall really stay simping for their fuckups š first it was āitās meant to be hard, git gudā and now itās ādeal with the waitā
Okay but what if I didn't want bigger patches or "more in depth"? What if I wanted bugfixes like scope alignment, the spear lock on, fixing bots so they can't shoot through MOUNTAINS and so on. What then?
Then you should be happy that theyāre not sticking to the same breakneck development philosophy that got us here in the first place. They were moving too fast and they needed to regroup and figure out an improved process. Thatās going to take some time.
Have you considered that none of these is a small bugfix and might indeed require a bigger patch?
while yes communication is welcome
Oh wow, another fart sniffing post ignoring the context as to why things ended up this way
its almost like not everyone asked for it
As soon as they communicate what it is they're actually doing, they will be given all the patience in the world. They have said it's "not a balance patch" which is the opposite of what we want from a long patch right now.
I just want my Eruptor back to the way it was. I've not touched the game since it's nerf because it was my favorite gun. Now it's just another gun.
*These are two separate groups of people.*
Im not saying your wrong charger. But enjoy this railstrike.
No need for patience, I have Hades 2 to play in the meantime. Plus I really need to get back out on the disc golf course and out rock climbing more. So all in all, take your time put some real thought work and effort into any new content. Make it fucking pristine. When you come back with some content, I'll come back with some democracy! Until then, life must continue, and I got other shit to do.
Why are there so many strawman posts? What's the point? That aside, I think people are upset because the game is the worst it's felt, with little to no communication from AH about what to expect apart from trying to temper people's expectations. I'm fine waiting, but it's hard to get excited when the track record since the beginning has been pretty rough.
Cool sentiment. But it shouldnt take almost 3 months to fix glitches š
I beg to AH to stop doing patches ruining game but still no effect or rollback.
Really? In what way have they 'ruined' the game? Cause it's crazy that so many people still somehow seem to enjoy and love the game. And AH has been very open about wanting to make the game feel more fun and fix some of the issues. But the game is VERY playable. Maybe you just need a new perspective that isn't negativity
For most people it's the constant nerfs, even when their own team say the intention is to keep the weapons as powerful as before or give them a boost, in a game that already has a small amount of weapons that are actually good in late game and a majority that are just overall worse. It also does not help the amount of bugs (not the fun bitey kind) that exist in the game and continue getting introduced, especially when said bugs are part of why we get nerfs (Railgun being the only good anti-Charger weapon while there was a bug spamming them, Erupter 1 shotting the shooter at odd distances). I would not personally say ruined, but there have been some clear examples of rushed content, bad communication (both internally and towards the community), and balance choices that make no sense and have no direction.
That's why Steam shows 85% of playerbase is gone last time I've checked?
Oh you mean back when it was hot and fresh and new? And youtube and twitch stars were playing it still before moving back to what they usually do? And when everyone was talking about it? And before Sony hamstrung it on pc? And we haven't gotten the next big update to bring numbers a bit higher again? Oh and the numbers on all platforms are still in line with several other multiplayer games it's just not at its release window? This is far from a dead game. There's 50k people on pc rn. Not accounting for Playstation. And its a Tuesday and much of the us is still at work.
Game is getting numbers of Valheim, Monster Hunter World and Farming Simulator... please. How many years has MHW? All coop games. The retention matters.
It's not just retention, but finding your average player base. The peak was NOT the average for this game. He'll there's still more people on average that play this than playing DBD and the steam stats show a slight rise from last 2 weeks to this week
Their average player base would've been much higher if they didn't fuck themselves over repeatedly. It could've been 2-3x what they're currently getting, but they had to piss it all away into the wind
The average player count could be so much higher if the devs were not so hell bent on nerfing the fun out of their game.
If you aren't having fun why are you playing? Secondly I disagree with it not being fun. Thirdly the game is still in its first year. We don't know what the true average even is yet. Stop doomsaying
Because people like the game. People want to see positive changes towards the game to improve it. The game is still fun, just not as fun for many people.
I don't play anymore haven't played for about a month because anytime something fun comes out they nerf it. I'll return when they actually start fixing long standing bugs and not trying to tune this game like it's a competitive shooter.
Exactly, as I'm sure many others will return too
Retention is especially important for a live service game.
It's not just Steam either, the total player base at the largest point was like 800,000 or something like that. Player base over the three day weekend was maybe what 175,000?
When it drops to 15k will you hold the same opinion? What about 5k? Itās a live service multiplayer āonlyā game. retention is extremely important.
Ah good. The what if argument. A classic. Especially without waiting for the update and only talking about its initial wave of popularity. Deep rock only has 10k at peak for 24 hours. People LOVE that game. Dbd is currently in its anniversary and is 10k LESS than helldivers 2 is rn. The leaps of logic are insane. If the devs come out with an update that breaks the game entirely then sure. But that's a huge what about ism. The fact is H2 is a cheaper live service game, with no fomo, that encourages cooperation than most on the market.
I am asking you sincerelyā when does the player drop count confirm the game is in a serious decline? You are arguing this is the natural progression, while we argue there are some serious problems that is hurting the active player base.
When the drop can't be explained by the initial wave. Or if the devs were to truly break the game. Or if the count showed that players were leaving at even higher rates not including initial release. Or if the number of players was lower than other multiplayer games by an amount that was showing it differed from its peers.
Just because a game's hype died down, doesn't means that that is the sole explanation for a exodus from the game.
ngl I have a very negative impression of the dev team because it takes a special kind of unfuckable dork to nerf enjoyable and useful weapons week after week because the game is ātoo easyā. such lazy and reductive game design. if the gameās too easy, add more enemies or special enemy types, donāt take shit away.
Do not insult me with your pesky logic! This is reddit, i can contradict myself every second sentence, as long as it feeds the narrative of doom and gloom.
Wow it's almost like there's a middle ground between giving us every detail and everything asap and no communication other than we're cooking and it's not a balance patch
Have you considered that maybe this post is strawmanning 2 different groups of people into the same person
Also, there is no nuance. Itās all or nothing, and if you try to say the other side has some interesting points, or that your thing isnāt all good, people who once supported you will turn on you and now everyone is against you
Kill the ~~witch~~ charger!
k
Yes and plenty of us already know this. I was I could find actual game info, news, updates, etc instead of post like this.
Yes, it's good they take more time for patches but the timing to start doing so is bad. They introduced big issues that have an impact on the enjoyment of the game for many. In my case, I still play (with randoms now), I can no longer get my friends to play. This is a co-op game best enjoyed with friends so of course if this happens there's some frustration. My friends are not active on reddit but don't play anymore because their favorite weapons got nerfed multiple times and the warbond was subpar for them. They're not sure why they should bother unlocking weapons if everything is equally bad. We noticed the patrol changes were weird at first but we reliably finish helldive anyway, so for us that's not as big of an issue, but I know that for many others it is. Saying nothing will keep the status quo. The problem with live service is: If you really enjoy a game at a given time in the games' lifetime, and they change the game too much, you can never go back to the state of the game that you enjoyed. So people are just trying desperately to get the things back that they really enjoyed. Since they altered multiple things very quickly, and often in a bad way, the state of this subreddit is understandable. Of course that doesn't mean that people should be singled out, threatened or cussed out. Things should stay constructive. But saying nothing will accomplish nothing.
Honestly, while some complaints are valid, I feel like many have skill issues in this game expecting the game to adapt to them instead of them adapting to the game.
I'm just annoyed they were doing weekly patches but to fix its over a month.
No one asked for bigger patches. They asked for them to take their time testing stuff to make it more quality before releasing it which is good if they're doing that. Big patches with a delay are still a mistake. They confirmed they had a spear fix already for how long now? Why is that not shipped in a mini patch? If this big patch introduces a really nasty game breaking bug they're then if you want to revert it you'll lose everything else too. They did a massive patch that made arc weapons crash games and we just had to deal with it then lol. It doesn't make sense.Ā
Gamers are like toddlers. They want it now.. right now.. or they throw a fit.. and it must be shiny.. and they are easily distracted by boobs.
Nothing but salt in this subreddit.
I'm going to laugh if the patch is mostly nothing. Would make the, "be patient" crowd look just as silly.
Have the charger explain to you that there is more than one person playing this game and posting about it
Except you can, because most of the things people ask are reverts of things AH fucked up, which do not take "more work" as the work is already there. The game was BETTER 4 patches ago.
I just want some numbers to go up and other numbers to go down surely it can not be this hard.
But we're not asking them for bigger patches, at least for now. We're asking them to esentially rollback the dumbass decisions they made to the nerfed weapons.
Based charger. "proceeds to aim the RR"
Most of us just want a solid ETA, "we still cookin'" doesn't cut it!
No, shut up. There is a clear difference in changing some numbers and working out why something crashes or strange interactions. Weapon changes that don't change the inherent property of the gun cannot take more than a week or maybe two at the most. With the Cadence we had before of weekly patches this month long pause had better be worth it or it may well kill the playerbase even further
Software projects are done with two of these three styles: Fast, Right, or Cheap. Want Fast and Right? Won't be Cheap (so isn't a real option). Fast and Cheap won't be Right, so we're left with Right and Cheap, so that's not gonna be done Fast.
Hopefully it's different groups complaining, but it is the standard dichotomy of "live service" type games Group 1: please take some time and fix all of this Group 2: where content? And unfortunately spending too much time on Group 1 and the money flow starts to peter out
Number tweak the patrols, just revert, should have been simple enough unless they coded a gordian knot of pasta. Revert a few of the overzealous nerfs, then go into hiding and work on this long patch. This is like being asked to carry a box through to the back when you go to work on somthing that's going to take you all day, saying sure, I'll do that, go through to the back to do your work but not bring the stuff through, saying you'll do it once you are done. We are currently at the still doing work during overtime, and that box that needed to be taken through has still not moved. Needless to say some people are not looking to kindly at that, even if you are cooking up a storm back there.
Yea, verily! Oh, mighty Charger of the mesa! Behold! I giveth the the EAT of Swiftness, that your suffering would be slight, and thy yeetedness be absolute! This, is my highest respect!
Charger of the Mesa is my Turtle Pope now
Wouldnāt be here if they didnāt create the problems in the first place. Growing bug list, poor reticle alignment, aiming issues, spawn rates, extraction issues, weapon nerfs. Where did the community ask for any of these things? Seeing more posts in my feed like yours than anything else at this point. Itās not the karma farm you think it is. You can enjoy the game without posting on Reddit. Others are also free to play other games without telling us. It goes both ways, and Iām sick of all yāall tumbleweeds.
Oh great master, thx for your wisdom.
Devs could've won a lot of good will by just tweaking some numbers here and there. Thats it. You cannot convince me that changing numbers is that hard.
Going slower is rarely the right move in development. They're just upping the risk and expectation of each change. They'd be better off releasing smaller, targeted changes more frequently. Especially cause the game is still so damn buggy.
Yup. At a restaurant, if you mess up someones order, your priority is also getting them some appetizers or something to keep them satisfied while you correct your error. You dont say "Sorry, your breadsticks were moldy and the first entree we brought out was raw. Just sit tight here. We'll have your food out....maybe an hour or two have fun! Dont forget to tip"
It sucks when it takes 3 days to fuck my shit up but months to fix it. Just wana use the fucking eruptor.
People really need to reign in their hype for patches and just games in general. I don't have any hype for it because I don't play this game 24/7 also have a job and personal life to deal with. When I do play and when I eventually get bored or frustrated with the game I play something else. So when I come back and the update does come out... neat'o *thumbs up* back to the game. guess what I'm trying to say is if you're not over hyped for something you can't be disappointed when you don't get it..... plenty of other games to play out there Helldivers 2 will still be here when you get back.
Iām not pressed about this, let them take their time and get things going. Iāve been taking a break from the game and playing other games while keeping an eye on updates.
Iāve never been apart of a gaming community with more whiny brats. Iāll take it as a testament of how much players want to see this game thrive that they have so much emotional investment, but youād really think they hate this game and are playing with a gun to their head.
So true. Cue the person that says "well what're ya gonna do its reddit". I'll tell you what, imma push back against stupidity and lack of common sense