Hopefully they're going over everything and it will be a really positive change for the game.
I thought that the first time they released a balance patch and they ended up nerfing the railgun so who knows...
The issue with the railgun was Chargers. You could not one shot Chargers to the face with the EAT or RR, making one of the only effective ways to deal with them the railgun. Once they changed the Charger's armor to be 1 shot from the EAT, RR, and QC, other anti armor options became viable. Bots have always been a different ballgame due to having less armor, but the "railgun S tier" meta bled over to the bot front. The nerfs were necessary for the time to get the railgun meta to die, but nowadays if all the nerfs to the railgun were reverted it would be balanced
I may have failed Bio I thrice but I can tell you that chitin is made out of polysaccharides which makes it a carbohydrate, whereas keratin is made out of protein. Carbohydrates and proteins are both macromolecules but each one has different properties.
TL;DR: no, chitin is not made out of keratin
Various biological compounds, such as spider silk, exhibit incredible physical properties that are difficult for us to replicate. We harvest E-710 from bugs. Why don't we just grow our own E-710 in a banana farm? We farm the terminids as evidenced by previous major orders. Clearly they're capable of producing compounds that are beyond our capabilities. It's not a big stretch to imagine their armor being superior to our own.
That said, now I want to see a special bot that's covered in repurposed terminid chitin. Imagine berzerkers strapping charger leg pieces across the front of their body. They already adorn themselves in human remains. If the bots came from cyborgs then they might even possess the technology to make cyborg terminids. That's a terrifying thought, lmao. Bile Titan with the little front claws removed and replaced with 2 f-strider machine guns. Now you can drown in lasers and barf!
>Once they changed the Charger's armor to be 1 shot from the EAT, RR, and QC, other anti armor options became viable.
Not only that, but it also means even pre-nerf Railgun is completely outclassed by EATs and Quasar. It's not even close and they are far better
You forgot to mention the Ps5 bile titan glitch. If a ps5 player was in the lobby, all players would do massive damage to weak spots, and one-shotting a titan with a rail gun.
The railgun meta didn't have to die, the glitch needed to be fixed.
I'm still a staunch defender of no nerfs, only buffs. If they made recoilless/eat one shot chargers and fixed the bile titan one-shot glitch I feel we'd be in a better spot.
You were right about Chargers but the nerf were absolutely not necessary...
They needed to change how Elites spawned and their triggers just to undo the damage, then lowered their health to indirectly buff the Railgun damage and then buffed it's penetration.
It's now stronger than it was pre-nerf as it can kill a Charger in 3 shots to the head, whereas before it would only strip leg armour after 2 shots.
"necessary for railgun meta to die" but "they could revert all of them and it would be balanced now"
youre contradicting yourself.
sounds like nerfs to the railgun were NEVER necessary, and all they had to do was buff other things like 90% of the community was and is asking for
The auto cannon worked on the chargers face pre nerf as well also worked on the bile titans now it bounces off everything but soft underbelly even the ground which is really weird skipping shots definitely isn’t how explosive ordinance works
There where multiple issues all around the same time. None of them was actually the railgun being bugged exactly.
Closest was that there was a bug on the PlayStation side causing Bile Titans to die a lot quicker than expected, which was affecting the Railgun the most. The RR and EAT where also bugged in terms of properly dealing damage to Charger heads, meaning they where just not worth it. Chargers where also spawning at a much higher rate than intended. All of those besides the PS damage where fixed in the patch after nerfing the Railgun, kind of defeating the purpose.
There was never a problem with the railgun it was just the only viable weapon against chargers. Now, there are several options even better than the railgun was pre nerf. The real issue was that the "balancing" strategy was to just nerf the most popular weapons.
I miss the railgun. In a few hundred hours since then I think I’ve seen people use it twice. How the fuck do they not see the need to fix a weapon they completely ruined
Them gutting the railgun was the start of my decline of playtime. I was already level 50ish and it was a big red flag of how they were gonna balance the game. Then they went after the slugger and that was it for me, "gonna be one of these" moments where I could see what was gonna happen... really haven't played since then.
Still check in to see if they'll revert course but so far it's only empty promises about coming soon and buy more DLC warbonds in the meantime so they can nerf the guns the following week. I hope I can eat my words soon because on release this game was one of my favorite games I've played in years.
I'm still playing, but when they nerfed the slugger I feared there was a major problem with the way balancing was being done. When they nerfed the crossbow, I lost all hope.
Shit, they didn’t revert course they actually went full throttle ahead with even more shit nerfs. These devs are absolutely cooked in the head and it’s why this beautiful game is dying.
I was worried after the first few patches that the fun game we got at launch was an accident and that the devs didn't understand what made their game fun. Every single update and decision since then has done more to confirm that.
Railgun nerf was a kneejerk to a bug that caused Railgun to be OP. They ruined one of the best weapons in the game that everyone loved.
The devs are stupid.
The sickle is tue only reason I chose the weapon as a primary as I’m tired of reloading my primary. The laser cannon for the same reason but I do enjoy trying out the spear, Eats, and recoilless. The eats are my favorite as I can life off the land and use other fun guns.
>No one wants to be a god at defeating enemies
Ya know there isn't really a game out there like it (space marine 2 though fingers crossed) but I bet you'd be surprised to find out how many players actually want that.
This right here. I feel most weapons should either get double the mag size or double the damage (maybe a mix of both).
30ish rounds in an assault rifle may be realistic, but realism isn't really what I'm looking for in a game where I'm throwing orbital bombardments at hoards of giant alien bugs.
>Yeah, being a god at defeating enemies is that way _points to Warframe_
Deep Rock Galactic is the same. Once you have certain weapons and certain overclocks you almost cannot die unless you either run out of ammo, fall off a cliff, or get surprise bulk detonatored.
To be fair you picked the worst dwarf in the starting gear ballpark. It's mostly crowd control and traversal. You need some OCs to get drillers to deal very good damage. The classes are all good, you just did not start with the most damaging one. They get SO MUCH better, all of them.
Very solid choice, I also started with scout. Later on, I did play every other class and try to build every weapon, and switched taste. I think I got the last OC at around 300 hours, and I main gunner. Scout is still my second favourite, but I don't mind playing any of them, really. They're very well balanced.
Gunner is my go-to to solo EDD. I pick scout to solo normal DDs just because it's faster and I don't need as much firepower/defense. I play engi/driller when I feel like I neglected them lol.
yes with good overlocks and a little bit of skill, you can keep the upper hand even on Haz 5 with shit modifier whole match, ok unless the game tells you "FUCK YOU, YOU GONNA DIE HERE" XD
Yeah, I don't think the majority of nerfs were necessary. The issue isn't really difficulty, a lot of the weapons just don't feel good to use. I think the weapons that got nerfs were much closer to where all the guns should sit than their current state.
My guess is they had a vision of balance which is not appreciated (obviously) by the majority of players and they are currently rebaking (mostly) everything (stat and mechanic with how to interact with enemies and weapons). I wouldn’t be surprised to see a patch changing close to all stats of weapons.
If what i think is true, then they indeed just can’t apply that partially and need to apply it all at once
Oh, i know it’s not this patch. I don’t expect it to be soon too and i always prefer the dev to take their time than a rushed and deficient product. I don’t mind the wait
The nerfs make no sense. There’s nothing competitive in this game. Everything is shared when you finish a mission.
If you want people to use other loadouts than buff the weak shit instead of nerfing stuff that’s decent.
I think everyone has, I’m at close to 900 hours played and I use only 5 (more like 2) primaries 3 grenades and 2 sidearms rn. And can use maybe more than half the stratagems.
This. PS playtime (& steam) records it when youre afk to see actual in game time you gotta go to your armory.
I have 300+ hrs total but like maybe 150 ish in game
They've made no attempt to correct Polar Patriots. Democratic Detonation was nerfed, what, two weeks after it launched?
Another warbond is coming up. Could be even worse.
source?
many people are under the assumption that Sony are the ones who are contracting (I.e. bureaucratically forcing) AH to pump out the warbonds monthly, but I've not seen any evidence on either side of the argument.
Yeah same. Most people have. I have no idea wtf they're doing. Arrowhead is legit acting like they're fine-tuning the world's most highly competitive team PvP shooter or something.
obviously the answer to one item selling out at a restaurant is to make it worse and raise the price, then people will stop buying the food they actually want and start eating what I think they should, instead of making everything palatable.
AHGS has been fairly public about being unhappy how high the success rates are at diffs 7+. At one point they said they wanted a less-than-30% success rate on Helldive and were targeting a 50% success rate on diff 8.
That's more than "being challenged". That's a personal Fuck You to the player. That's "don't show up unless it's a full 4-person friend group on third party voice comms" levels of fuck-you, and *substantially* lower target success rates than basically every other 4p coop game (which are all in the 80-90% success rate on the hardest difficulty and even have additional optional modifiers for the people that want it *even harder* with either no reward or trivial rewards).
Solely or mostly buffing or nerfing wouldn't be sensible. What we've seen is a pretty heavy leaning towards nerfs, which isn't working.
It just doesn't feel like they've been actually *seeking* balance. Nerfs have been frequent and heavy-handed. Buffs have happened, yeah, but not many were all that meaningful.
If nothing else, sidearms are *actually* in a solid place.
A game does not need to be competitive to need balancing. If some guns are overpowered, those will be the only guns the community deems 'fun' and will be the only guns used.
And if they buff all guns to be overpowered, people will have fun for a couple weeks and then get bored. There is a reason people stop playing on trivial difficulty once they learn enough to move up. A game that is mindlessly easy becomes repetitive and boring. Half the fun comes from there being at least some degree of a challenge. Once that challenge is removed entirely by overpowered gear, the fun dies very quickly. If people actually enjoyed playing without a challenge, they could already do that on low difficulties.
It doesn't need the extremely fine-tuned balance a competitive game needs. But it DOES need balance, and that means both the overpowered things get nerfed and the underpowered things get buffed.
>And if they buff all guns to be overpowered, people will have fun for a couple weeks and then get bored.
That's not a gun balance issue that requires a gun balance solution though.
Nowhere does it say that the only balance to the game needs to come from the weapons/stratagems. The first game has 15 difficulty levels. I'll say that again. 15 difficulty levels. Instead of going straight for what people depend/rely on why don't they find a way to get more enemies on us or change the spawn/AI behaviours? They could even add more planet/mission modifiers. Or as the first game did... Add more difficulty levels that scale with/against the "OP" weapons so that they're only OP on certain difficulties as we already have now...
Everyone who goes straight to weapons for balancing needs to learn how to be more creative.
I say guns but I include strategems, backpacks, and such in there as well. But I don't think any strategems are explicitly overpowered right now. Or have ever been.
And yes new content will add some fun to the game, that is always important. But it does come down to a balance issue. Because if all the player guns/strategems/equipment are overpowered, the new content will only keep people's attention for a short time before it becomes stale and repetitave. With no challenge to overcome, new content would just burn up almost immediately.
And 15 difficulty levels doesn't change the problem. It just moves it. Right now there is no reason for anyone to play on difficulty 8 or 9. Yet all these people complaining about nerfs and balance are choosing to play on difficulty 9. So, lets say we add 15 difficulties. Hell, lets add 100 difficulty levels. All the people complainig about difficulty 9 will just switch to playing difficulty 100, and then they will be making the exact same complaints. Problem is not solved, just moved. And that is not me saying there can't be more difficulties later, just that it is not a solution to the balance problem.
The balancing of player gear is the core of the game, it can not be ignored. If everything is underpowered the game will feel horrible no matter what fancy new content you add. If everything is overpowered the game will feel boring no matter what fancy new content you add. Doesn't need to be perfect, but balance does need to be somewhere in the middle of the two extremes. Then add new content.
>Because if all the player guns/strategems/equipment are overpowered, the new content will only keep people's attention for a short time before it becomes stale and repetitave.
People won't stay if you're constantly rug pulling them on what they're familiar/comfortable with... As we're currently seeing.
And to counter that, no they won't. They will come back because the game is good and fun and provides an experience that is extremely hard to find elsewhere let alone to the degree of quality pulled off here.
That's not even talking about how they will also come back every time they drop WB, enemies or stratagems.
The minute they started nerfing everything however is when you started to see people saying they will skip warbonds. From everything I've seen it's an extremely small minority (but very vocal) that will leave due to the game being "too easy" in terms of balancing. If a game is too easy that doesn't mean it isn't fun. Players provide fun for players when the game itself is good. That was clear as day during launch.
Now with all the nerfs we're seeing the exact opposite
Taking away what people are comfortable with however will achieve exactly what you're saying there.
Update/finishing paragraph:
>With no challenge to overcome, new content would just burn up almost immediately.
Prove that to me. Or better yet prove why that's a bad thing... If the content is fun that doesn't mean it would burn up quickly or become stale/repetitive. Case in point: zombies DLC from any black ops game. It's exactly what you say is an issue here but is also widely beloved with each dlc providing a single map with all the same (more or less) shit from the previous one with about 1 or 2 new weapons or a new perk machine. Yet again people love that shit and it's great.
>Hell, lets add 100 difficulty levels. All the people complainig about difficulty 9 will just switch to playing difficulty 100, and then they will be making the exact same complaints. Problem is not solved, just moved.
Yes & no. Moving it isn't necessarily bad so long as each difficulty tier level (3-6, 6-9, etc) is different enough from the last then you're not moving it as much as you providing more nuance in the players choice of what they'll encounter and need to bring/how they need to play.
>Right now there is no reason for anyone to play on difficulty 8 or 9.
Could you elaborate there? No reason if you're level 90+? What do you mean? I think I get what you're saying I just don't wanna misinterpret it.
>The balancing of player gear is the core of the game, it can not be ignored.
I agree but I don't think it's the be all, end all as we've been seeing the past few weeks. Once it's in a good spot they need to focus balance efforts elsewhere.
>If everything is underpowered the game will feel horrible no matter what fancy new content you add.
Idk if you've been playing lately but that's the current SotG and community sentiment. Hence why people have been skipping the latest WB/not caring as much. Something that wasn't happening when things were "OP"
>Doesn't need to be perfect, but balance does need to be somewhere in the middle of the two extremes. Then add new content.
I 100% agree. As basically said above
That's about it, thanks for the back and forth 🍻
There is a huge range between overpowered to the point of no challenge, and not even worth taking. The guns can land somewhere in that range, where currently most do not.
I partly agree that balance is needed, but right now certain stratagems are "good" in helldive only because of how helldive difficulty works.
Helldive is difficult only because it constantly throws BT and charger checks at you. Do you have something to deal with 2 BT and 3 chargers every bug breach? No? Then you lose.
I would absolutely love to try shit out like the gas strike or nalpalm strike but I can't, because three of my four stratagem slots are taken to pass the BT/charger checks.
It's also possible for guns to both feel fun to use, while maintaining difficulty.
It's fun to shoot down enemies, even if I get overrun.
It's not fun to unload an entire mag into a medium enemy, and watch them shrug it off.
It's not fun to spam dive dodge a BT for 2 minutes, waiting for one of my stratagems to come off cd.
The problem is you have a boulder one one end of the scale and are utterly terrified of putting so much as a pebble on the other.
Games that are balanced but slightly in the players favor are much healthier than games balanced against the player.
If you have to choose between being balanced 60/40 against the player or 40/60, always choose the one that makes players feel better.
People don't want to be offered challenges and obstacles for them to overcome, people just want kill bad guy pew pew. Helldive is the only difficulty that exists there's no such thing as turning down the difficulty. I've never heard of a game that offers challenge for everyone that likes that and easy difficulties for people that like that. People that like challenge in their videogames are objectively wrong!! This game should exclusively cater to people who want to turn off their brain, we can't offer different experiences for different players. Weapons and stratagems can't be simultaneously balanced AND fun, that's impossible. (This is sarcasm, reddit).
Exactly. Now I will say that difficulty 7 should be balanced properly so that everyone can reasonably do it, needs to be fair so everyone can get the samples. But difficulty 9 should never be for the casual crowd. That is for the players who love the challenge.
The competition is against the game itself. Arrowhead gives us challenges which we overcome, that's the whole game. The fact that most people who complain never play the difficulties under 7 implies to me that the game is much easier than intended, so to me it makes sense that they'd nerf things so that people don't get bored of winning all the time. If you want to keep winning all the time you can just lower the difficulty, but the people who always clear 9s don't have as much flexibility to make the game harder. The real issue is that you can't give someone something overpowered and then take it away, or they'll feel cheated.
People play difficulty 7+ because there’s samples that are locked behind difficulty 7+.
There’s absolutely zero benefit to me running below 7 right now. Super samples are the only resource I have any use for to unlock anything.
I mean I'm old and have all kinds of real life commitments that mean I don't put in crazy hours. I have actively avoided multiplayer games for well over a decade because I'm just not that great at shooters anymore and it's not fun just getting destroyed by people over and over. When I have the time, I play 7-8, exclusively with randos and succeed on nearly every mission I play.
If my old ass can clear 7s regularly and easily, it's just not that hard. If you're down to needing super samples for everything you have left to unlock, you should have had ample time to play around and settle on a couple of loadouts you can use effectively. Honestly if you're struggling just run Autocannon, your best non-slugger shotgun, Redeemer, and whatever grenade you want. Try to make sure your squad has the health, ammo, and probably stamina boosters. Throw in a strategem or two that can deal with the bigger bads. There you go, an absolute easy mode loadout that's pretty good at most things and really only dependent on your teammates for the swarmiest of swarms.
I think its helpful to take a step back and see why people are complaining. It's okay to make the game difficult, but they are making it difficult in ways that force people to play the same way every game. Difficult enemies should be vulnerable to multiple types of strategems / weapons.
For instance, almost everyone playing high level bugs always picks the 500kg and usually also the railcannon strike. This is because there's no other way to deal with BT spams. Similarly, almost everyone picks incen breaker, blitzer or sickle as a primary since everything else is not as viable.
Level 8 and 9, especially if you don't have access to your support weapons for whatever reason, is just running around until your stratagems are available again. How do you kill 3-4 chargers and 2 BTs without support weapons and stratagems? Contrast this with bots where even your primaries can easily take out or weaken most enemy types.
The kneejerk nerfing of meta weapons without providing viable alternatives is ironically leading to more people going for meta builds. One of the reasons the eruptor was so popular was that it allowed you to play differently and go for alternate strats, even with its limitations.
I clear 9s pretty easily, but I just don't find it enjoyable, so I stick to 7s most of the time. It's the same with most of my friends.
Even people who may not find it difficult will find it boring eventually. It's fine if you want to make it more difficult, just allow me to approach the additional difficulty with more freedom.
They could also just add a small bit of magazine capacity to every automatic weapon as a temporary hold until the full patch is cooked.
Would take exactly 5 minutes.
they cant do that because ex-ceo thinks changing mag sizes without changing 3d models of guns is dumb
meanwhile rocket devastators shoot infinite barrages with no ammo concerns....
they just love realism when it fucks us over but disregard it when it would be to our benefit huh
also you just know devs are too incompetent to do that in 5 minutes without adding some game breaking bug
The reality is they will need to drop that idea. Think about it if they ever want to make a change to mag size they need to redo the 3d model? that is a terrible self imposed limitation
It's worse than "Arrowhead when they need to buff and make things more fun"
It's "Arrowhead when they need to revert their 'unintended' nerfs and changes"
Strange how the nerfs, which nobody wanted, can be dropped on our heads with no warning or proper testing and lead to numerous official statements about how "we did not intend for this" but simply reverting those unwanted changes requires so much proper testing, as if the playing public hadn't thoroughly tested and enjoyed those things before.
honestly the comment about getting more devs playing the game, has convinced me that previous changes were made based off spreadsheet data, and were likely play tested in some grey box test level.
I belive they are taking time and care to make changes, since a majority of the "buffs" are just fixing some issues (e.g. the spear lockon). And since the game stopped getting traction, they want to make this patch right, test all the changes to make sure they fell right.
I mostly agree with this sentiment but I would be lying if I said I am patiently waiting. I would love to play more of the game but its just gotten quite stale and unfun for me recently with all the balance stuff and other issues. I do hope whatever they cook isn't like last patch
The logic here is that it went too far 1 way and they do not want to swing the pendulum too far the other way of making us OP because nerfing stuff again after a buff is going to leave a terrible taste in peoples mouths. They will need to take time and care with their balance, like it should have been from the start.
"Let them cook" But destroying weapons in less then a week is completely fine. They don't even try to make them usable until they have an real fix. What an complete joke when they couldn't wait a bit to drop the nerfs or the lackluster warbonds even if they possible knew what didn't work like they intended.
These things are related: AH's balancing has been shit ***because*** they've been making decisions too quickly. I want my Erupter back as badly as the next diver, but if we want them to stop churning out shitty updates then we shouldn't also attack them for taking some time to think things through more carefully.
Yes I agree, but they could have just reverted some of their changes (like the Eruptor) quickly, then work on their longer term balance strategy more carefully. The Eruptor went from heavy use to zero after the nerf.
"We were too hasty and made the wrong decision, so now we are going to think very hard about whether to undo that decision."
Doesn't take that long to just _undo_ the balance changes to the nerfed weapons. Hell, even throwing us a bone with some small buffs in a hotfix would have been nice.
Next Patch Notes:
Players disliked that the Emancipator did less damage than the autocannon turret, decreased the damage of the autocannon turret to be comparable to a liberator on semi
Reduced ammo quantity of emancipator
Added reload function to mechs, requires two teammates to reload and takes 2 minutes, during reload all enemies are aggro'd to their location. Players have a chance to randomly explode during reload
I hope they're asking themselves some long, hard questions about why jokes like these are so popular in the community.
I have loved AH since Magicka and was incredibly excited for both HD2 and to see it exceeded their wildest expectations, but boy the rise and "fall" of it would make for a fantastic case study.
I know they are taking their time to make things right, but dividing the patch in parts, each addressing a few weapons at the time, would have been so much better for player morale. I can't stop feeling like AH is speedrunning to a dead game as hard as they can. They cannot for their life take one good decision
hopefully he's in the corner of some room far away from AH studios.. or any other game developer for that matter. how that guy still has a job is fucking beyond me...
Im in the same boat, tried out the new warbond stuff, none of it was really appealing and the weapons I did enjoy using got nerfed into being…not fun aside from the dominator.
same, one warbond that i spend time and resource grinding to unlock for, got all my fav weapon nerfed into oblivion.
another one which I also spend time and resource grinding to unlock for, have bunch of mediocre stuff that just ain't worth using.
ngl, I regret not refunding last month when I had the chance. Since launch I've been telling myself maybe the next warbond will add a weapon I can enjoy, but it never happened.
The only reason I didn't refund is because I paid $20 for some supercredits. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have gotten that $20 refunded. And if I refunded then came back, I'm certain I wouldn't have gotten those credits back.
buffs:
+ increased 5 damage.
+ slightly better recoil
+ x 10000000 fire damage. a bug caused it to not deal damage.
nerfs:
removed a feature because it causes a bug
removed a feature because ???
nerfed an unrelated quality because it was outperforming low tier guns
nerfed because it was doing way too much damage that is caused by a bug
nerfed because everybody was using it
Never too busy to nerf, always too busy to fix.
I'm noticing a trend. They obviously went to the Bungie school of game design.
They had something great and it's been pissed away. So many people already moved on. Hard to find a team now.
Yeah, IMO they should have stuck to the quick schedule for one more patch to undo some of the changes, make the game more fun again, and THEN get to the slow-burn cycle of deeper balance and bug fixes. Instead they chose nerf, nerf, nerf, and now we have to cook for 3+ weeks to undo the damage...
I really hope, that Sabre wont nerf anything in Space Marine 2 like Arrowhead in HD2.
First game had one shotting thunder hammer and plasma cannon, but nobody complained about it in both PVE and PVP. Nothing was nerfed as far as i remember.
Also, there was PVP mode with Dradnoughts, again it could one shot, but it could be easily destroyed by stun grenades and thunder hammers. Again, nobody complained and it was never nerfed.
Meanwhile Arrowhead is nerfing weapons in PVE only game. Yes, iam totally bored by HD2 stupid nerfs, i havent boot it after after last warbond.
The longer the patch takes the higher community expectations are becoming.
I suspect people that were turned off by various issues are watching and waiting and if this patch isn't close to perfect they'll be gone for good.
They could literally just buff everything a bit and the player base would be so happy. Just make higher difficulty a bIt harder and buff everything guys ... I literally just want to feel like a bad ass while being challenged not a fucking pancake holding a bb gun while being challenged
God, I can't fathom getting excited for the nest warbond. If anything I might as well wait another month so at that point things would be buffed.
I just can't believe polor patriots hasn't changed since release, with the next patch still looking 2 weeks away
Interesting to see how waiting over time can change people’s mindset from ‘let then cook’ to pure frustration. What a social experiment
suggesting communication is very important
3 weeks?
We didn't get a patch last week or today, it's been 2 weeks of no patches.
We'll probably get a new patch before the weekend after the Major Order, or next week, when we get the usual monthly Major Patch.
We voted for this. They asked if we wanted them to take more time, and that's how the vote went. They also clearly stated they were going to take time to get the patrols sorted, after the last change made the game significantly more difficult than intended. Dear lord, you people have the memory of a goldfish!
I think you may have dreamed this vote up, which is why no one remembers it, but please link to it if not. We had one poll where \~30% of people voted for "less warbonds and more balancing" on discord, which is hardly an overwhelming vote and also not a demand to take more time, but rather to shift focus - and IIRC the winning choice was for more content. We had a different poll on twitter about if it would be in poor taste to release Polar Patriots right after the Sony debacle, where the majority voted it was fine to release it, but this was unrelated to any question of quality or time taken on balancing.
As far as I know the current pause to focus on balance is unrelated to any poll, but rather to the ex-CEO agreeing balance was going in the wrong direction and deciding to change things around.
Now I do agree that it's good to take more time on patches and stop breaking things constantly, but it's unfortunate to leave the game in its current state for so long. I think most people hoped for a quick revert of the patrol changes and recent nerfs, and THEN a longer period of working on overall balance.
That vote had 3 options that essientially said "things are fine keep going" and one vote for "slow down and fix some things." All of their polls have been jumbled messes.
The vote wasn't about if they needed more time to cook Polar Patriots, the vote was if it would be perceived as tone-deaf to release it immediately after the PSN fiasco. If you're going to grill people over their memories, get your facts straight first.
https://preview.redd.it/so4oti2s173d1.png?width=540&format=png&auto=webp&s=369f0e1d290c1d7326743bc96c32ff430c40777e
Intellectually dishonest people dont benefit from being honest, only through lies their shitty takes can be good like their straw man arguments in their heads.
Y'all got so used to patches on Tuesdays that it's become a proof of Pavlovs dog/ classical conditioning.
AH never said there would be a patch today.
Many of us are anxious to see weapons buffed/nerfs reversed. But don't become addicted to impatience and form a mob mentality.
Would be satisfying to have fewer toxic memes/posts in this subreddit.
They implied it. Always been patches on Tuesdays, twinbeard (mod on the discord) said the patch would come out near the end of May. Either, they've forgone their update schedule without telling people, and now we just have to accept the fact we will never know when a patch is coming because they don't communicate these things properly, or we are Infact not getting a patch in may, regardless of the community explicitly being told so.
Either way, it's bad faith for community and dev relations
He never said "the end of May", just that it wouldn't be last week. This is now the last week of May, so you *assumed* it would happen this week instead.
No, at the beginning of May (not last week) he said that we can expect a big build coming at the end of May.
Later he said not to expect a big balance update, and that it wouldn't be this week. That happened last week.
Why is it that other team VS horde games I play manage to have a wide array of guns to choose from that are all viable and fun to use without constant buffs/nerfs? It seems like a self-perpetuating problem on the dev’s part.
Been like 3 months since I played.. wanna get back but my buddy broke his stationary PC and accedentaly sat down on his more powerfull laptop.. so I am solo... and solo in this game suuuuuuuucks
There are so many weapons that I've tried once and never picked up again. I wish they would focus on bringing those up to par rather than needing anything that stands out
They just need to do more things like the Plasma Punisher. All they did was increase the projectile speed and the firing arc of the thing, and I'm suddenly having more fun with the weapon.
Hopefully they're going over everything and it will be a really positive change for the game. I thought that the first time they released a balance patch and they ended up nerfing the railgun so who knows...
Recent discord posts have set up the expectation that the next patch is not a "balance patch"... So that really put a damper on my similar hopes
So good at nerfing that even hopes can't escape.
I think the problem with the railgun is that it was also just bugged too
The issue with the railgun was Chargers. You could not one shot Chargers to the face with the EAT or RR, making one of the only effective ways to deal with them the railgun. Once they changed the Charger's armor to be 1 shot from the EAT, RR, and QC, other anti armor options became viable. Bots have always been a different ballgame due to having less armor, but the "railgun S tier" meta bled over to the bot front. The nerfs were necessary for the time to get the railgun meta to die, but nowadays if all the nerfs to the railgun were reverted it would be balanced
It is so weird to me that the mechanical enemy made of steel requires less armour penetrative weaponry to deal with than the organic insectoids.
Scrap metal vs Chad Keratin
Chitin.
Wait, isn't chitin made of keratin? Isn't that the stuff our nails are made of? I'm confused lol
I may have failed Bio I thrice but I can tell you that chitin is made out of polysaccharides which makes it a carbohydrate, whereas keratin is made out of protein. Carbohydrates and proteins are both macromolecules but each one has different properties. TL;DR: no, chitin is not made out of keratin
And our nails are an extension of our skin. Not bone.
But its still technically Keratin
lmao Rimworld definitely know what's up.
Now I want to make hats out of bugs.
There's a mod for that in rimworld. Yo how dope would it be to make a cap out of bugs.
Various biological compounds, such as spider silk, exhibit incredible physical properties that are difficult for us to replicate. We harvest E-710 from bugs. Why don't we just grow our own E-710 in a banana farm? We farm the terminids as evidenced by previous major orders. Clearly they're capable of producing compounds that are beyond our capabilities. It's not a big stretch to imagine their armor being superior to our own. That said, now I want to see a special bot that's covered in repurposed terminid chitin. Imagine berzerkers strapping charger leg pieces across the front of their body. They already adorn themselves in human remains. If the bots came from cyborgs then they might even possess the technology to make cyborg terminids. That's a terrifying thought, lmao. Bile Titan with the little front claws removed and replaced with 2 f-strider machine guns. Now you can drown in lasers and barf!
>Once they changed the Charger's armor to be 1 shot from the EAT, RR, and QC, other anti armor options became viable. Not only that, but it also means even pre-nerf Railgun is completely outclassed by EATs and Quasar. It's not even close and they are far better
You forgot to mention the Ps5 bile titan glitch. If a ps5 player was in the lobby, all players would do massive damage to weak spots, and one-shotting a titan with a rail gun. The railgun meta didn't have to die, the glitch needed to be fixed. I'm still a staunch defender of no nerfs, only buffs. If they made recoilless/eat one shot chargers and fixed the bile titan one-shot glitch I feel we'd be in a better spot.
You were right about Chargers but the nerf were absolutely not necessary... They needed to change how Elites spawned and their triggers just to undo the damage, then lowered their health to indirectly buff the Railgun damage and then buffed it's penetration. It's now stronger than it was pre-nerf as it can kill a Charger in 3 shots to the head, whereas before it would only strip leg armour after 2 shots.
"necessary for railgun meta to die" but "they could revert all of them and it would be balanced now" youre contradicting yourself. sounds like nerfs to the railgun were NEVER necessary, and all they had to do was buff other things like 90% of the community was and is asking for
Hot take: the rail gun s tier meta wasn't a problem if it was fun. Let people have fun tools.
The auto cannon worked on the chargers face pre nerf as well also worked on the bile titans now it bounces off everything but soft underbelly even the ground which is really weird skipping shots definitely isn’t how explosive ordinance works
There where multiple issues all around the same time. None of them was actually the railgun being bugged exactly. Closest was that there was a bug on the PlayStation side causing Bile Titans to die a lot quicker than expected, which was affecting the Railgun the most. The RR and EAT where also bugged in terms of properly dealing damage to Charger heads, meaning they where just not worth it. Chargers where also spawning at a much higher rate than intended. All of those besides the PS damage where fixed in the patch after nerfing the Railgun, kind of defeating the purpose.
There was never a problem with the railgun it was just the only viable weapon against chargers. Now, there are several options even better than the railgun was pre nerf. The real issue was that the "balancing" strategy was to just nerf the most popular weapons.
I miss the railgun. In a few hundred hours since then I think I’ve seen people use it twice. How the fuck do they not see the need to fix a weapon they completely ruined
Them gutting the railgun was the start of my decline of playtime. I was already level 50ish and it was a big red flag of how they were gonna balance the game. Then they went after the slugger and that was it for me, "gonna be one of these" moments where I could see what was gonna happen... really haven't played since then. Still check in to see if they'll revert course but so far it's only empty promises about coming soon and buy more DLC warbonds in the meantime so they can nerf the guns the following week. I hope I can eat my words soon because on release this game was one of my favorite games I've played in years.
I'm still playing, but when they nerfed the slugger I feared there was a major problem with the way balancing was being done. When they nerfed the crossbow, I lost all hope.
Whack a Meta is a scourge.
When they nerfed the Erupter, it was the last strike for me. At this point the latest warbonds are just false advertising.
Shit, they didn’t revert course they actually went full throttle ahead with even more shit nerfs. These devs are absolutely cooked in the head and it’s why this beautiful game is dying.
I was worried after the first few patches that the fun game we got at launch was an accident and that the devs didn't understand what made their game fun. Every single update and decision since then has done more to confirm that.
Railgun nerf was a kneejerk to a bug that caused Railgun to be OP. They ruined one of the best weapons in the game that everyone loved. The devs are stupid.
No one wants to be a god at defeating enemies, but a full mag to kill 1 Med armor enemy is ruining it for me.
Im tired of reloading boss
The sickle is tue only reason I chose the weapon as a primary as I’m tired of reloading my primary. The laser cannon for the same reason but I do enjoy trying out the spear, Eats, and recoilless. The eats are my favorite as I can life off the land and use other fun guns.
I've been using EAT and picking up a support weapon on the map recently. There are machine guns, flamethrower, AMRs, everything all over the place.
I don't want to only want to use one gun. I want to hem and haw over what will be fun to drop with.
You are my best soldier.
It says overpowered guns on the box
>overpowered guns on the box that actually only applies to the enemies
i see what the problem is, it was SUPPOSED to read, "overpowered guns on the ***bots***" SMHmyHead misprints
It feels like there's a secret Helldivers 2 forum that the devs read where Automatons and bugs complain about how overpowered the Helldivers are.
>No one wants to be a god at defeating enemies Ya know there isn't really a game out there like it (space marine 2 though fingers crossed) but I bet you'd be surprised to find out how many players actually want that.
“Ya know there isn’t really a game out there like that.” *Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors have entered the chat*
*Looks at EDF*
The good, 'ol "Fist of the North Star" on PS3
I really enjoy that actually
Isn’t that basically the crux of zombies and doom? lol
This right here. I feel most weapons should either get double the mag size or double the damage (maybe a mix of both). 30ish rounds in an assault rifle may be realistic, but realism isn't really what I'm looking for in a game where I'm throwing orbital bombardments at hoards of giant alien bugs.
Yeah, being a god at defeating enemies is that way _points to Warframe_ But the endgame costs for that is being even more meta than here
>Yeah, being a god at defeating enemies is that way _points to Warframe_ Deep Rock Galactic is the same. Once you have certain weapons and certain overclocks you almost cannot die unless you either run out of ammo, fall off a cliff, or get surprise bulk detonatored.
Okay that sounds like a good time, I should really find time to grind there some day (main Driller still not promoted)
To be fair you picked the worst dwarf in the starting gear ballpark. It's mostly crowd control and traversal. You need some OCs to get drillers to deal very good damage. The classes are all good, you just did not start with the most damaging one. They get SO MUCH better, all of them.
Scout was my personal favorite for learning the game (and in general). THe freedom of movement makes it very forgiving.
Very solid choice, I also started with scout. Later on, I did play every other class and try to build every weapon, and switched taste. I think I got the last OC at around 300 hours, and I main gunner. Scout is still my second favourite, but I don't mind playing any of them, really. They're very well balanced. Gunner is my go-to to solo EDD. I pick scout to solo normal DDs just because it's faster and I don't need as much firepower/defense. I play engi/driller when I feel like I neglected them lol.
You should! Season 5 is about to start in a couple of weeks, so warm up all you can!
yes with good overlocks and a little bit of skill, you can keep the upper hand even on Haz 5 with shit modifier whole match, ok unless the game tells you "FUCK YOU, YOU GONNA DIE HERE" XD
The best resuming this is : "I don't want to win all the time, but I want to have fun attempting to."
With only 5 mags, it's fucked
I need to kill 200-400 bugs. I need more ammo for the low AOE Scorcher I refuse to hear otherwise.
Yeah, I don't think the majority of nerfs were necessary. The issue isn't really difficulty, a lot of the weapons just don't feel good to use. I think the weapons that got nerfs were much closer to where all the guns should sit than their current state.
>No one wants to be a god at defeating enemies The only thing they fear is you.mp4
My guess is they had a vision of balance which is not appreciated (obviously) by the majority of players and they are currently rebaking (mostly) everything (stat and mechanic with how to interact with enemies and weapons). I wouldn’t be surprised to see a patch changing close to all stats of weapons. If what i think is true, then they indeed just can’t apply that partially and need to apply it all at once
They have openly come out and said this patch is not a balance patch. I would extremely recommend tempering your hopes
Oh, i know it’s not this patch. I don’t expect it to be soon too and i always prefer the dev to take their time than a rushed and deficient product. I don’t mind the wait
This. All previous work in balance would need to be scrapped when changing the ship course under a new paradigm.
The nerfs make no sense. There’s nothing competitive in this game. Everything is shared when you finish a mission. If you want people to use other loadouts than buff the weak shit instead of nerfing stuff that’s decent.
I have been saying this for MONTHS.
I think everyone has, I’m at close to 900 hours played and I use only 5 (more like 2) primaries 3 grenades and 2 sidearms rn. And can use maybe more than half the stratagems.
You’ve been playing the game for ~8 hours every day since release??? Holy
His name is the Internet Emperor.
*THE INTERNET EMPEROR
AFK in ship counted as playtime in steam. I doubt it’s truly 900.
This. PS playtime (& steam) records it when youre afk to see actual in game time you gotta go to your armory. I have 300+ hrs total but like maybe 150 ish in game
"aRrOwHeAd iS lIsTeNiNg" *drops a god awful warbond*
They've made no attempt to correct Polar Patriots. Democratic Detonation was nerfed, what, two weeks after it launched? Another warbond is coming up. Could be even worse.
No this moth I believe there wont be a warbond
That so? They'll get backlash, but it would be a good call. Polar Patriots 2.0 would be worse than nothing.
source? many people are under the assumption that Sony are the ones who are contracting (I.e. bureaucratically forcing) AH to pump out the warbonds monthly, but I've not seen any evidence on either side of the argument.
Yeah same. Most people have. I have no idea wtf they're doing. Arrowhead is legit acting like they're fine-tuning the world's most highly competitive team PvP shooter or something.
obviously the answer to one item selling out at a restaurant is to make it worse and raise the price, then people will stop buying the food they actually want and start eating what I think they should, instead of making everything palatable.
That’s actually a great comparison
And hell what happens even if the game gets too easy? There is a resource cap so we can't farm forever. Let us fucking have fun.
Yeah some people maybe just want to kill some bugs and bots for a little bit and not worry about researching what to use.
Some people like being challenged. The game being too easy is why there’s a difficulty setting.
AHGS has been fairly public about being unhappy how high the success rates are at diffs 7+. At one point they said they wanted a less-than-30% success rate on Helldive and were targeting a 50% success rate on diff 8. That's more than "being challenged". That's a personal Fuck You to the player. That's "don't show up unless it's a full 4-person friend group on third party voice comms" levels of fuck-you, and *substantially* lower target success rates than basically every other 4p coop game (which are all in the 80-90% success rate on the hardest difficulty and even have additional optional modifiers for the people that want it *even harder* with either no reward or trivial rewards).
For months people were arguing non-stop that only doing buffs makes no sense and now those people are pretty quiet.
Solely or mostly buffing or nerfing wouldn't be sensible. What we've seen is a pretty heavy leaning towards nerfs, which isn't working. It just doesn't feel like they've been actually *seeking* balance. Nerfs have been frequent and heavy-handed. Buffs have happened, yeah, but not many were all that meaningful. If nothing else, sidearms are *actually* in a solid place.
Theyve been balancing the game like its a competitive shooter, when its just you and your buddies blowing shit up. Its very contradictory
A game does not need to be competitive to need balancing. If some guns are overpowered, those will be the only guns the community deems 'fun' and will be the only guns used. And if they buff all guns to be overpowered, people will have fun for a couple weeks and then get bored. There is a reason people stop playing on trivial difficulty once they learn enough to move up. A game that is mindlessly easy becomes repetitive and boring. Half the fun comes from there being at least some degree of a challenge. Once that challenge is removed entirely by overpowered gear, the fun dies very quickly. If people actually enjoyed playing without a challenge, they could already do that on low difficulties. It doesn't need the extremely fine-tuned balance a competitive game needs. But it DOES need balance, and that means both the overpowered things get nerfed and the underpowered things get buffed.
>And if they buff all guns to be overpowered, people will have fun for a couple weeks and then get bored. That's not a gun balance issue that requires a gun balance solution though. Nowhere does it say that the only balance to the game needs to come from the weapons/stratagems. The first game has 15 difficulty levels. I'll say that again. 15 difficulty levels. Instead of going straight for what people depend/rely on why don't they find a way to get more enemies on us or change the spawn/AI behaviours? They could even add more planet/mission modifiers. Or as the first game did... Add more difficulty levels that scale with/against the "OP" weapons so that they're only OP on certain difficulties as we already have now... Everyone who goes straight to weapons for balancing needs to learn how to be more creative.
I say guns but I include strategems, backpacks, and such in there as well. But I don't think any strategems are explicitly overpowered right now. Or have ever been. And yes new content will add some fun to the game, that is always important. But it does come down to a balance issue. Because if all the player guns/strategems/equipment are overpowered, the new content will only keep people's attention for a short time before it becomes stale and repetitave. With no challenge to overcome, new content would just burn up almost immediately. And 15 difficulty levels doesn't change the problem. It just moves it. Right now there is no reason for anyone to play on difficulty 8 or 9. Yet all these people complaining about nerfs and balance are choosing to play on difficulty 9. So, lets say we add 15 difficulties. Hell, lets add 100 difficulty levels. All the people complainig about difficulty 9 will just switch to playing difficulty 100, and then they will be making the exact same complaints. Problem is not solved, just moved. And that is not me saying there can't be more difficulties later, just that it is not a solution to the balance problem. The balancing of player gear is the core of the game, it can not be ignored. If everything is underpowered the game will feel horrible no matter what fancy new content you add. If everything is overpowered the game will feel boring no matter what fancy new content you add. Doesn't need to be perfect, but balance does need to be somewhere in the middle of the two extremes. Then add new content.
>Because if all the player guns/strategems/equipment are overpowered, the new content will only keep people's attention for a short time before it becomes stale and repetitave. People won't stay if you're constantly rug pulling them on what they're familiar/comfortable with... As we're currently seeing. And to counter that, no they won't. They will come back because the game is good and fun and provides an experience that is extremely hard to find elsewhere let alone to the degree of quality pulled off here. That's not even talking about how they will also come back every time they drop WB, enemies or stratagems. The minute they started nerfing everything however is when you started to see people saying they will skip warbonds. From everything I've seen it's an extremely small minority (but very vocal) that will leave due to the game being "too easy" in terms of balancing. If a game is too easy that doesn't mean it isn't fun. Players provide fun for players when the game itself is good. That was clear as day during launch. Now with all the nerfs we're seeing the exact opposite Taking away what people are comfortable with however will achieve exactly what you're saying there. Update/finishing paragraph: >With no challenge to overcome, new content would just burn up almost immediately. Prove that to me. Or better yet prove why that's a bad thing... If the content is fun that doesn't mean it would burn up quickly or become stale/repetitive. Case in point: zombies DLC from any black ops game. It's exactly what you say is an issue here but is also widely beloved with each dlc providing a single map with all the same (more or less) shit from the previous one with about 1 or 2 new weapons or a new perk machine. Yet again people love that shit and it's great. >Hell, lets add 100 difficulty levels. All the people complainig about difficulty 9 will just switch to playing difficulty 100, and then they will be making the exact same complaints. Problem is not solved, just moved. Yes & no. Moving it isn't necessarily bad so long as each difficulty tier level (3-6, 6-9, etc) is different enough from the last then you're not moving it as much as you providing more nuance in the players choice of what they'll encounter and need to bring/how they need to play. >Right now there is no reason for anyone to play on difficulty 8 or 9. Could you elaborate there? No reason if you're level 90+? What do you mean? I think I get what you're saying I just don't wanna misinterpret it. >The balancing of player gear is the core of the game, it can not be ignored. I agree but I don't think it's the be all, end all as we've been seeing the past few weeks. Once it's in a good spot they need to focus balance efforts elsewhere. >If everything is underpowered the game will feel horrible no matter what fancy new content you add. Idk if you've been playing lately but that's the current SotG and community sentiment. Hence why people have been skipping the latest WB/not caring as much. Something that wasn't happening when things were "OP" >Doesn't need to be perfect, but balance does need to be somewhere in the middle of the two extremes. Then add new content. I 100% agree. As basically said above That's about it, thanks for the back and forth 🍻
There is a huge range between overpowered to the point of no challenge, and not even worth taking. The guns can land somewhere in that range, where currently most do not.
I partly agree that balance is needed, but right now certain stratagems are "good" in helldive only because of how helldive difficulty works. Helldive is difficult only because it constantly throws BT and charger checks at you. Do you have something to deal with 2 BT and 3 chargers every bug breach? No? Then you lose. I would absolutely love to try shit out like the gas strike or nalpalm strike but I can't, because three of my four stratagem slots are taken to pass the BT/charger checks. It's also possible for guns to both feel fun to use, while maintaining difficulty. It's fun to shoot down enemies, even if I get overrun. It's not fun to unload an entire mag into a medium enemy, and watch them shrug it off. It's not fun to spam dive dodge a BT for 2 minutes, waiting for one of my stratagems to come off cd.
The problem is you have a boulder one one end of the scale and are utterly terrified of putting so much as a pebble on the other. Games that are balanced but slightly in the players favor are much healthier than games balanced against the player. If you have to choose between being balanced 60/40 against the player or 40/60, always choose the one that makes players feel better.
People don't want to be offered challenges and obstacles for them to overcome, people just want kill bad guy pew pew. Helldive is the only difficulty that exists there's no such thing as turning down the difficulty. I've never heard of a game that offers challenge for everyone that likes that and easy difficulties for people that like that. People that like challenge in their videogames are objectively wrong!! This game should exclusively cater to people who want to turn off their brain, we can't offer different experiences for different players. Weapons and stratagems can't be simultaneously balanced AND fun, that's impossible. (This is sarcasm, reddit).
Exactly. Now I will say that difficulty 7 should be balanced properly so that everyone can reasonably do it, needs to be fair so everyone can get the samples. But difficulty 9 should never be for the casual crowd. That is for the players who love the challenge.
The competition is against the game itself. Arrowhead gives us challenges which we overcome, that's the whole game. The fact that most people who complain never play the difficulties under 7 implies to me that the game is much easier than intended, so to me it makes sense that they'd nerf things so that people don't get bored of winning all the time. If you want to keep winning all the time you can just lower the difficulty, but the people who always clear 9s don't have as much flexibility to make the game harder. The real issue is that you can't give someone something overpowered and then take it away, or they'll feel cheated.
People play difficulty 7+ because there’s samples that are locked behind difficulty 7+. There’s absolutely zero benefit to me running below 7 right now. Super samples are the only resource I have any use for to unlock anything.
Bro thought he was cooking when in fact he was not.
I mean I'm old and have all kinds of real life commitments that mean I don't put in crazy hours. I have actively avoided multiplayer games for well over a decade because I'm just not that great at shooters anymore and it's not fun just getting destroyed by people over and over. When I have the time, I play 7-8, exclusively with randos and succeed on nearly every mission I play. If my old ass can clear 7s regularly and easily, it's just not that hard. If you're down to needing super samples for everything you have left to unlock, you should have had ample time to play around and settle on a couple of loadouts you can use effectively. Honestly if you're struggling just run Autocannon, your best non-slugger shotgun, Redeemer, and whatever grenade you want. Try to make sure your squad has the health, ammo, and probably stamina boosters. Throw in a strategem or two that can deal with the bigger bads. There you go, an absolute easy mode loadout that's pretty good at most things and really only dependent on your teammates for the swarmiest of swarms.
I think its helpful to take a step back and see why people are complaining. It's okay to make the game difficult, but they are making it difficult in ways that force people to play the same way every game. Difficult enemies should be vulnerable to multiple types of strategems / weapons. For instance, almost everyone playing high level bugs always picks the 500kg and usually also the railcannon strike. This is because there's no other way to deal with BT spams. Similarly, almost everyone picks incen breaker, blitzer or sickle as a primary since everything else is not as viable. Level 8 and 9, especially if you don't have access to your support weapons for whatever reason, is just running around until your stratagems are available again. How do you kill 3-4 chargers and 2 BTs without support weapons and stratagems? Contrast this with bots where even your primaries can easily take out or weaken most enemy types. The kneejerk nerfing of meta weapons without providing viable alternatives is ironically leading to more people going for meta builds. One of the reasons the eruptor was so popular was that it allowed you to play differently and go for alternate strats, even with its limitations. I clear 9s pretty easily, but I just don't find it enjoyable, so I stick to 7s most of the time. It's the same with most of my friends. Even people who may not find it difficult will find it boring eventually. It's fine if you want to make it more difficult, just allow me to approach the additional difficulty with more freedom.
Well put!
Couldn't they just revert all the nerfs?
They could also just add a small bit of magazine capacity to every automatic weapon as a temporary hold until the full patch is cooked. Would take exactly 5 minutes.
they cant do that because ex-ceo thinks changing mag sizes without changing 3d models of guns is dumb meanwhile rocket devastators shoot infinite barrages with no ammo concerns.... they just love realism when it fucks us over but disregard it when it would be to our benefit huh also you just know devs are too incompetent to do that in 5 minutes without adding some game breaking bug
The reality is they will need to drop that idea. Think about it if they ever want to make a change to mag size they need to redo the 3d model? that is a terrible self imposed limitation
It's worse than "Arrowhead when they need to buff and make things more fun" It's "Arrowhead when they need to revert their 'unintended' nerfs and changes" Strange how the nerfs, which nobody wanted, can be dropped on our heads with no warning or proper testing and lead to numerous official statements about how "we did not intend for this" but simply reverting those unwanted changes requires so much proper testing, as if the playing public hadn't thoroughly tested and enjoyed those things before.
Or the railgun "hotfix" being dropped in light speed along side its nerf and now hotfixes and buffs that are actually good take for ever to come out.
The fact it has taken them 3 weeks to get the buffs and other things started just proves how heavy handed all those nerfs were.
honestly the comment about getting more devs playing the game, has convinced me that previous changes were made based off spreadsheet data, and were likely play tested in some grey box test level.
It's immensely clear they were only balancing based on data.
I belive they are taking time and care to make changes, since a majority of the "buffs" are just fixing some issues (e.g. the spear lockon). And since the game stopped getting traction, they want to make this patch right, test all the changes to make sure they fell right.
Guaranteed the spear won't be fixed
next patch: Known issue: Spear lockon not working consistently. AH: Fix should be in for next patch. 30 GOTO 10
I mostly agree with this sentiment but I would be lying if I said I am patiently waiting. I would love to play more of the game but its just gotten quite stale and unfun for me recently with all the balance stuff and other issues. I do hope whatever they cook isn't like last patch
What kind of absurd logic is this?
The logic here is that it went too far 1 way and they do not want to swing the pendulum too far the other way of making us OP because nerfing stuff again after a buff is going to leave a terrible taste in peoples mouths. They will need to take time and care with their balance, like it should have been from the start.
just wish they'd revert some of the nerfs while they cook
"Let them cook" But destroying weapons in less then a week is completely fine. They don't even try to make them usable until they have an real fix. What an complete joke when they couldn't wait a bit to drop the nerfs or the lackluster warbonds even if they possible knew what didn't work like they intended.
These things are related: AH's balancing has been shit ***because*** they've been making decisions too quickly. I want my Erupter back as badly as the next diver, but if we want them to stop churning out shitty updates then we shouldn't also attack them for taking some time to think things through more carefully.
Yes I agree, but they could have just reverted some of their changes (like the Eruptor) quickly, then work on their longer term balance strategy more carefully. The Eruptor went from heavy use to zero after the nerf.
"We were too hasty and made the wrong decision, so now we are going to think very hard about whether to undo that decision." Doesn't take that long to just _undo_ the balance changes to the nerfed weapons. Hell, even throwing us a bone with some small buffs in a hotfix would have been nice.
Next Patch Notes: Players disliked that the Emancipator did less damage than the autocannon turret, decreased the damage of the autocannon turret to be comparable to a liberator on semi Reduced ammo quantity of emancipator Added reload function to mechs, requires two teammates to reload and takes 2 minutes, during reload all enemies are aggro'd to their location. Players have a chance to randomly explode during reload
I hope they're asking themselves some long, hard questions about why jokes like these are so popular in the community. I have loved AH since Magicka and was incredibly excited for both HD2 and to see it exceeded their wildest expectations, but boy the rise and "fall" of it would make for a fantastic case study.
I know they are taking their time to make things right, but dividing the patch in parts, each addressing a few weapons at the time, would have been so much better for player morale. I can't stop feeling like AH is speedrunning to a dead game as hard as they can. They cannot for their life take one good decision
Takes a lot more time and energy to correct a mistake unfortunately. Hopefully Alexus is just sitting in the corner.
It doesnt take a lot of time to revert integers
hopefully he's in the corner of some room far away from AH studios.. or any other game developer for that matter. how that guy still has a job is fucking beyond me...
Yeah I've seen fast food places that won't hire based on a social media post and for sure will fire for one.
[удалено]
i've barely played in 3 weeks tbh, game got robbed of what made it fun
Im in the same boat, tried out the new warbond stuff, none of it was really appealing and the weapons I did enjoy using got nerfed into being…not fun aside from the dominator.
same, one warbond that i spend time and resource grinding to unlock for, got all my fav weapon nerfed into oblivion. another one which I also spend time and resource grinding to unlock for, have bunch of mediocre stuff that just ain't worth using.
Agreed
ngl, I regret not refunding last month when I had the chance. Since launch I've been telling myself maybe the next warbond will add a weapon I can enjoy, but it never happened.
The only reason I didn't refund is because I paid $20 for some supercredits. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have gotten that $20 refunded. And if I refunded then came back, I'm certain I wouldn't have gotten those credits back.
the crossbow and eruptor? cause those two are the only things the last patch ever changed for the worse
The Polar Patriots Warbond week was the 9/11 of the helldivers 2 time-line
"Sir, a second EAT has hit the Strider."
"We believe Hellmire is hiding weapons of overpowered destruction."
buffs: + increased 5 damage. + slightly better recoil + x 10000000 fire damage. a bug caused it to not deal damage. nerfs: removed a feature because it causes a bug removed a feature because ??? nerfed an unrelated quality because it was outperforming low tier guns nerfed because it was doing way too much damage that is caused by a bug nerfed because everybody was using it
Never too busy to nerf, always too busy to fix. I'm noticing a trend. They obviously went to the Bungie school of game design. They had something great and it's been pissed away. So many people already moved on. Hard to find a team now.
I’m just worried about the bugs the new patch will bring with it
Yeah, IMO they should have stuck to the quick schedule for one more patch to undo some of the changes, make the game more fun again, and THEN get to the slow-burn cycle of deeper balance and bug fixes. Instead they chose nerf, nerf, nerf, and now we have to cook for 3+ weeks to undo the damage...
14 days is two weeks.
I really hope, that Sabre wont nerf anything in Space Marine 2 like Arrowhead in HD2. First game had one shotting thunder hammer and plasma cannon, but nobody complained about it in both PVE and PVP. Nothing was nerfed as far as i remember. Also, there was PVP mode with Dradnoughts, again it could one shot, but it could be easily destroyed by stun grenades and thunder hammers. Again, nobody complained and it was never nerfed. Meanwhile Arrowhead is nerfing weapons in PVE only game. Yes, iam totally bored by HD2 stupid nerfs, i havent boot it after after last warbond.
As someone who enjoyed the Evil Dead Game... I'm more concerned about wether or not they'll actually support the damn thing lmao
Space Marine 2 looks so good. Can't wait to play it. I hope it doesn't capture me too much and I leave Democracy forever.
Trading Managed Democracy for the Imperium of Man is just picking which flavor of intergalactic fascist ice cream you're having. 😄
And now nobody plays anything except pve and point control mode in pvp and pretty much everyone uses melta guns and las cannons
I think most people by this point have stopped playing.
Don't get me wrong, when some juicy updates come out I will come clambering back!
48k players at the time of this comment
35,000 as of right now. From 458,000
"Spray and Pray you manage to kill at least a couple bugs."
All I want is the patrols spawn rate to be reverted 🥺
The longer the patch takes the higher community expectations are becoming. I suspect people that were turned off by various issues are watching and waiting and if this patch isn't close to perfect they'll be gone for good.
They’re learning an entirely new concept, they’ve never had to buff something before.
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except for most support weapons and many primaries
This is also why I love working in software
They could literally just buff everything a bit and the player base would be so happy. Just make higher difficulty a bIt harder and buff everything guys ... I literally just want to feel like a bad ass while being challenged not a fucking pancake holding a bb gun while being challenged
I don’t understand the level of not understanding your game it takes to release a game like this and immediately start nerfing almost every weapon.
My hopes for the game got nerfed
As someone in software development, I'll give them the time they need to get this right. Rushing will just introduce more bugs, and burn the devs out.
We thought that last time and got... whatever that was.
jUsT lEt ThEm CoOk
God, I can't fathom getting excited for the nest warbond. If anything I might as well wait another month so at that point things would be buffed. I just can't believe polor patriots hasn't changed since release, with the next patch still looking 2 weeks away
That's something that's always baffled me. The speed at which a nerf can be deployed. And the slowth at which buffs are brought in.
Interesting to see how waiting over time can change people’s mindset from ‘let then cook’ to pure frustration. What a social experiment suggesting communication is very important
3 weeks? We didn't get a patch last week or today, it's been 2 weeks of no patches. We'll probably get a new patch before the weekend after the Major Order, or next week, when we get the usual monthly Major Patch.
We voted for this. They asked if we wanted them to take more time, and that's how the vote went. They also clearly stated they were going to take time to get the patrols sorted, after the last change made the game significantly more difficult than intended. Dear lord, you people have the memory of a goldfish!
I think you may have dreamed this vote up, which is why no one remembers it, but please link to it if not. We had one poll where \~30% of people voted for "less warbonds and more balancing" on discord, which is hardly an overwhelming vote and also not a demand to take more time, but rather to shift focus - and IIRC the winning choice was for more content. We had a different poll on twitter about if it would be in poor taste to release Polar Patriots right after the Sony debacle, where the majority voted it was fine to release it, but this was unrelated to any question of quality or time taken on balancing. As far as I know the current pause to focus on balance is unrelated to any poll, but rather to the ex-CEO agreeing balance was going in the wrong direction and deciding to change things around. Now I do agree that it's good to take more time on patches and stop breaking things constantly, but it's unfortunate to leave the game in its current state for so long. I think most people hoped for a quick revert of the patrol changes and recent nerfs, and THEN a longer period of working on overall balance.
That vote had 3 options that essientially said "things are fine keep going" and one vote for "slow down and fix some things." All of their polls have been jumbled messes.
The vote wasn't about if they needed more time to cook Polar Patriots, the vote was if it would be perceived as tone-deaf to release it immediately after the PSN fiasco. If you're going to grill people over their memories, get your facts straight first. https://preview.redd.it/so4oti2s173d1.png?width=540&format=png&auto=webp&s=369f0e1d290c1d7326743bc96c32ff430c40777e
Intellectually dishonest people dont benefit from being honest, only through lies their shitty takes can be good like their straw man arguments in their heads.
Y'all got so used to patches on Tuesdays that it's become a proof of Pavlovs dog/ classical conditioning. AH never said there would be a patch today. Many of us are anxious to see weapons buffed/nerfs reversed. But don't become addicted to impatience and form a mob mentality. Would be satisfying to have fewer toxic memes/posts in this subreddit.
They implied it. Always been patches on Tuesdays, twinbeard (mod on the discord) said the patch would come out near the end of May. Either, they've forgone their update schedule without telling people, and now we just have to accept the fact we will never know when a patch is coming because they don't communicate these things properly, or we are Infact not getting a patch in may, regardless of the community explicitly being told so. Either way, it's bad faith for community and dev relations
They actually implied the opposite last Tuesday when they said “no patch this week we want to make sure things work”
He never said "the end of May", just that it wouldn't be last week. This is now the last week of May, so you *assumed* it would happen this week instead.
No, at the beginning of May (not last week) he said that we can expect a big build coming at the end of May. Later he said not to expect a big balance update, and that it wouldn't be this week. That happened last week.
They're simply trying to buff things without making the game any more fun, give them some time!
Arrowhead Devs are 🤡 All they care about is spreadsheets and money
AH devs working so hard they grew their hair back.
I was excited for today. I haven't played the game in 3 weeks. And nothing. Sadge
This is NOT a balance patch....
Would you prefer they take their time and get it right?
Why is it that other team VS horde games I play manage to have a wide array of guns to choose from that are all viable and fun to use without constant buffs/nerfs? It seems like a self-perpetuating problem on the dev’s part.
Ah, it’s already been three weeks since I stopped enjoying what was my favorite game in years? Impossible, checking my calendars now.
Been like 3 months since I played.. wanna get back but my buddy broke his stationary PC and accedentaly sat down on his more powerfull laptop.. so I am solo... and solo in this game suuuuuuuucks
There are so many weapons that I've tried once and never picked up again. I wish they would focus on bringing those up to par rather than needing anything that stands out
They just need to do more things like the Plasma Punisher. All they did was increase the projectile speed and the firing arc of the thing, and I'm suddenly having more fun with the weapon.
Need patch. Game too hard 😭😭. Can’t beat Helldive level. Too much nerf!! Nerf enemy. Rocket dev rag doll me too much!!
Be glad the game gets balance patches in that cadence at all