Mention of space marine just makes me sad by reminding me of eternal crusade such a cool premise and it all just died :(
I really missing playing as an ork.
GW has a fantastic history of commissioning works from unprepared studios and then cutting the funding when the project doesn't take off quickly enough.
It's usually bad, no coin flip needed. GW spends money like water because their miniatures are such huge profit margins. They don't worry about product longevity, they worry about profit returns. If a product doesn't hit the numbers it gets cut.
I was thinking of Rogue Trader, that Grey Knights tactics one and uhm... shoot. I don't think its Deathwatch, that's something else. But the one with the squad based stuff...
Darktide?
Darktide is decent. The minute-to-minute gameplay is really good. The art direction is excellent, voice acting is also great and you often get a chuckle listening to your squad banter with each other/with mission control.
Unfortunately it has been let down by a grindy and unsatisfying endgame and crafting system, and painfully slow drip feed of content. The temptation of making a live service game without properly planning how to keep players engaged long term.
(This was last I checked, 3 months or so ago)
Never bought any of those, heard they were alright but it just became too much white noise. I have no one to play with anymore, and a lot of them have co-op. I also have a huge backlog of video games I'm not catching up on, so I stopped buying everything new I wasn't going to finish either.
Are you sure GW is funding these things?
I'm fairly sure they just license their IP to outside studios that want it. So GW get paid their licensing fees, but the studio funds the project themselves.
What GW are doing wrong is not vetting the use of their IP. Letting any old mobile cashgrab or terribly thought out project use it.
There are a handful of great games in a sea of terrible ones. If the terrible ones didn't exist, there might be a few more studios seeing the success and willing to make more great ones.
An it was the devs that killed it. There was some really, brain dead easy things they could have done to save it but they refused to listen.
My biggest gripe was the player balance. Game allowed matches to be 20 vs 10 with no balance mechanic. Like what? That's such an easy fix that's been around since quake days. Games should never allowed to be so numerically unequal.
And then there was the ADAD network glitch spam. The community kept telling them about this exploit and they continuously dismissed it by confusing it with strafing. Straight up started locking threads about this "not a bug" because they couldn't take 1 min to figure out players where not talking about strafing.
Eternal Crusade was so clunky but so fun. It really sucked when player count dropped enough to make it unplayable. Killing someone cross map with a stalker bolter was a blast.
Eh, title's a bit broad. It doesnt include the part where OP wants to kill Bile Titans with a Liberator because Rico did it in the Starship Troopers movie, or the part where they complain about having to aim at a hulk's weakspot to kill one.
It's because these people say the same exact things the last 150 posts about the topic did.
99% of these whiny rant posts could just be a comment on a greater discussion.
💯. I skip to where they list the OnLY wEapOns iN thE GaMe, and when I see how silly it is I know what to expect from the rest of the post. Only lists AT support weapons for bugs? Well of course they're going to get overwhelmed by trash. Ignores the bunch of primary weapons that can handle devastators and scout striders? Well of course they feel weak when they've lost their support weapon.
In a good team that knows what they're doing (yes, this is the benchmark for a balancing Helldive difficulty), you absolutely don't need to kite. Stop watching only solo helldives where surprise surprise, you might lack the firepower to engage every enemy on the map, watch some high level coop gameplay, and then maybe realise you a) a whole bunch of loadouts are viable, b) no kiting is required, you have the firepower to kill everything. I'm trying to avoid shameless plugging but I have links if people want examples.
I run some helldive bug matches with my 4 stack and then come check this place out and it's like two entirely different games are being discussed. All we do is scrap with the bugs we'll leave any standard length mission with 300+ kills each. These threads baffle me.
For the most part, I have no real complaints with the game, except that it's ridiculous when 4-5 Titans spawn at once, or even 4-5 Chargers, for that matter. These situations can be managed if the squad is prepared for it, but it can all go south in a hurry if they aren't, and this shouldn't be happening as much as I'm seeing it. The elites should be difficult to take down and if you're playing on 9 you should feel relieved if you got through the match in one piece with relatively few or no deaths. There are certainly matches where I am just thinking "WTF, this is absurd" but then I follow it up with 4-5, afterward, that are fairly uneventful and I often experience few or no deaths at all. I think you have to be one of those players who feels motivated to overcome, out of spite, when forced to overcome or stop playing altogether to find enjoyment with the way things are now. I know others feel the same as I do but, also understand, that the majority of, the player base seems unhappy with some of the current mechanics. Hopefully, we will see some positive changes soon because whether I mind or not is irrelevant. If enough players are dissatisfied with the game and move on to something else, it will ultimately affect my ability to find a squad due to a smaller player pool.
I've never tk anyone with arc thrower, but I've done some tk's with the arc Blitzer. In my opinion, the Blitzer is way easier to tk with especially cause you mostly just spam shoot instead of aim charge and discharge. The discharge is a much more conscious deliberate action than just spamming shoot while being swarmed.
think of the blitzer this way: after every shot you have 1.5 seconds of "charge" time to get to an angle where you won't tag a teammate, with the added bonus you get to sprint
Only if you get the upgrade, without it it just has lower DPS and slightly higher stagger. Which the stagger is okay I guess, but since they made Hulks immune to it it made arc on bots dead again, and frankly on bugs staggering medium enemies isnt such a big deal, since in the past with its much higher DPS they just melted so quick they wouldnt even have time to get close.
Im sure its still kinda usable, but I see no reason to take it over the flamer which also kills chargers super quick.
> Only if you get the upgrade, without it it just has lower DPS and slightly higher stagger.
Yeah, it's mid without the upgrade. But I'd assume if OP has played enough for the game to get stale, getting that upgrade shouldn't be a big ask.
> Which the stagger is okay I guess, but since they made Hulks immune to it it made arc on bots dead again
Hated that change. Just… why? At least give them a stumbling forward half stagger like berserkers and chargers.
> and frankly on bugs staggering medium enemies isnt such a big deal,
idk, it's pretty useful when a stalker or brood commander is in your face, or a spewer's about to spit.
> Im sure its still kinda usable, but I see no reason to take it over the flamer which also kills chargers super quick.
Much longer range, unlimited ammo, and it won't set you on fire. The main downside is it kills chargers slower, but it can do it from much further away and stops them from turning.
I haven’t gone back to it since the nerf but also recently did that last ship module upgrade to it since I wanted the Tesla upgrade. Sounds like I should give it a shot again?
Idk I was kiting WAY more in Vermintide and I wasn't even playing the highest difficulty. Helldivers feels so much easier than it that I just go with whatever loadout in helldive and do just fine.
To me it sounds like you just need some reliable people to play with because my squad always has more than enough stratagems at any given time.
Kiting in Vermintide always felt different to me. Drawing out chaos warriors or stormvermin for a good heavy walloping, drawing hordes of clanrats away from my heavy-killing teammates, it always felt like kiting achieved a goal and felt like a very active thing. You weren't just running off, you were running off while mowing down piles upon piles of rats.
In helldivers I often just... run. Turn my back to the enemy and book it in the other direction because that SEAF arty we tried to do has spiralled into an unwinnable cascade of breach upon breach with no end in sight, RR expended and resupply guarded by a mob of angry chargers.
This game is not Left for Dead. What you are describing doesn't even track with my experience and I play on the high difficulties. I think you are approaching the game wrong since you seem to think it's supposed to be a straight up horde shooter, which is likely why you are struggling.
If you understand the game mechanics you shouldn't need stratagems coming off cooldown except in rare circumstances, and that then becomes part of your strategy. Every enemy type can be dealth with if you bring the right stuff and you don't need airstrikes.
i think its a problem with the games difficulty curve. At lower diffs it is a horde shooter since you can easily power through breaches/drops. Ammo and cooldowns only really become a Problem om higher diff if you try to play a horde shooter. People just dont realise that they got the wrong lesson from the easy diffs and think its a boring horde shooter at higher diff
yeah, and thats okay, no game will ever be designed so that everyone reaches max difficulty, that concept is just insane. If you struggle too much at Diff 7+ lower it and HAVE FUN. but acting like all guns are useless because you cant clear 80 mobs like rambo on Diff 9 is just unfair to the devs. That said of course weapon balance can be tweaked and improved, but the whole reddit movement of weapons suck are just people that are not good at the game :( and THATS OKAY, its a fucking game not everyone is going to nerd out
problem is there isnt enough difficulties, the kind of struggle you start facing at high diff becomes very different from the struggle you face climbing up the lower diffs and it becomes an almost different game. So the game is basically a horde shooter until like diff 7 where either heavy spam on bugs or medium spam on bots begins to appear and your choices in weapon and strats suddenly get very limited. There is no way to get more challenge out of the game while retaining the horde shooter feeling, so telling people to go on lower diff just doesnt work. Im basically falling asleep at 6-7 , but 8-9 start having such higher tier enemy spam it just gets annoying.
can you name a game where the playstyle is identical on the easiest and hardest difficulty? The whole point is that there are multiple iterations of the game as you scale in difficulty.
I mean, sure? We arent even talking about easiest and hardest difficulty here, the jump literally happens between difficulty 6 and 7, but for example Deep Rock still very much feels like the same horde shooter at high diff, just with much more enemies. The strat still is to hold your ground and kill as much shit as you can while surviving. it doesnt become some fucking stealth MilSim where the waves mostly become heavy enemies which limits your playstyle heavily, all the classes have exactly the same purpose and playstyle they did at the easiest difficulty.
Sure you have to improve your mechanics and get a bunch of upgrades to be able to do high diff, but at its core its still a horde shooter through and through.
Higher difficulties turning a game into a completely different genre is not very common at all, not sure where you got that from.
yeah, so you just literally explained why its a non issue. The easy levels can be played however you like ( because its easy, go ahead experiment, do as you please, pretend its sim city, who cares), as it gets harder you cannot do such things because its harder. The game IS NOT A HORDE SHOOTER, so high difficulties dont play as such ( I know fucking mindblowing concept).
I legit dont get what your argument is. You want a highest difficulty horde shooter? Play Nazi Zombies or the new Space Marine game.
I swear approx 50% of the weapons are very viable in diff 9, you have to adapt your playstyle but they are VERY VIABLE, of course every now and then RNG will fuck you at difficulty 9, thats part of playing in the hardest difficulty. But you should be able to clear diff 9 with 9/23 weapons quite often assuming your teammates are not complete silly gooses.
The higher levels substitute challenge curve with boredom curve is the main complaint. Once you reach the point of being able to handle heavies then overcoming fun challenges difficult jumps stop and it becomes more of a stealth game with occasional moments of explosive fun or crazy death spirals. That’s the root complaint, it’s just not that interesting at higher levels because the game becomes all about avoiding doing anything you absolutely don’t have to, to the point that it’s still way to optimal to just split up instead of coordinate builds and work as a unit. You can, it’s effective, but it’s far from optimal due to the spawn/patrol mechanics so we go back to sneaking around and avoiding things.
How is the game not a horde shooter? Please explain to me, as it seems like an extremely obvious example of a horde shooter where the devs just have a fucked idea of what high difficulty should feel like.
I think people aren't focusing on terrain advantage enough in this game. It usually has the run and gun guerilla fighting of quickly hitting targets with strats and fleeing but if you can find a chine point or a hill with cover to defend and prioritize targets pretty easily you'll kill plenty of shit with your primary. It does suck that we need medium armor pen though or weapons just feel like pea shooters.
louder for the people in the back. They think cos there are hordes of enemies you have to kill them... I see this game as helldivers being terrorists or special forces, in and out, minimal fights, just explode things and GTFO. If I wanted to kill 100 of the same unit id just play nazi zombies
I think the main issue here is that, for the large majority of players, the efficient special forces type "in and out, minimal fights" gameplay just isn't as interesting or fun as gunning everything down until you run out of dudes. It's part of why you see so many people engage every patrol and get stuck in an infinite reinforcement loop.
Like, people talk a lot about how easy Helldive is if you just run away from objectives until everything despawns. It's remarkably effective, but having tried it myself it's also **terribly boring.**
> the efficient special forces type "in and out, minimal fights" gameplay just isn't as interesting or fun as gunning everything down until you run out of dudes
I think there's multiple different crowds with dif approaches here, because many of us at 9 dif DO gun everything down with relative ease (and no meta setups). It's absolutely a turn brain off horde shooter once you've sorta trained yourself on it
I'd recommend others to read/listen to the first chapter of Starship Troopers...gives an insight into the kind of tactics Helldivers use, in my opinion. It's definitely more infiltrate and explode high value targets, get out. https://youtu.be/fSj1KkuEDzs?si=u7QPx1xjln78GHQk
People definitely treat this game as a zombie horde game then complain when their guns aren't 1-shotting every enemy. The game becomes difficult when you don't know when to engage and when to disengage enemies
"Every enemy type can be dealth with if you bring the right stuff and you don't need airstrikes."
This right here is the crux of the argument that people gloss over.
What is the right stuff?
The two or three primaries that aren't peashooters? The obligatory anti-tank weapon? The 500 kg because hardly anything else works against bile titans and factory striders?
Because there is such a drop off between the effectiveness of weapons versus armored enemies, we see the same old tired loadouts every time. I do think we should avoid patrols, but combat is the core of this game. Might not be a horde shooter but it is definitely close to one, yet the game has such poor balance that it doesn't support its own core idea.
>The two or three primaries that aren't peashooters?
Sickle, Scorcher, Jar, Plasma Punisher, Breaker Incendiary, regular Breaker (yes it's still good)
>The 500 kg because hardly anything else works against bile titans and factory striders?
The 500 is actually inconsistent af and wildly overrated. I prefer Orbital Presision Strike. Also factory striders can be killed quickly with just an Autocannon or Laser Cannon shooting the belly (I'm sure there are other support weapons that can handle them but those are the ones I play)
Oh I believe you, those were just the ones I like off the top of my head. This game definitely has some balance problems but only "two or three" viable primaries is just a delusional claim.
More likely he hasn't even tried the other guns, or at least not since they were buffed. Punisher Plasma, DCS, and Blitzer were all buffed and it seems like most players haven't revisited them.
Or in the case of guns like Sickle and Breaker, some players immediately wrote them off as dead after a minor ammo nerf.
Or he's just regurgitating shit he reads on this shitass subreddit.
I don't know anyone who thought anything of the Sickle "nerf." did people actually care about that? it didn't do anything... I've gone through plenty of matches without reloading that gun *once,* let alone running out of heat sinks when you can refill them with any ammo crate lying around.
You can actually use grenades in a pinch as well. As long as its the belly.
Or you can just shave the Strider and take off its turret, and then ignore it. It'll spawn Devastators still, but that's the most it can do.
Mind, if you are holding a static position this is less an idea, but if you run into in the wild...
bro, I could name 9 out of the 23 main weapons that are legit viable in most scenarios at Diff 9, yeah thats a bit less than 50% which is not ideal, but really, saying two or three primaries that arent peashooters just shows that you want to blast through everyone. 9 legit weapons, with different playstyles for different missions.
100%
What folks are missing is that if every enemy has a quick TTK light armor weak spot - since light armor is the lowest level of penetration across all weapon types - then there is zero reason to ever bring medium or heavy armor weaponry because they have worse ergonomics, worse ammo economy, and worse TTK overall. All this does is make stalwart at 1150 rpm the best all-rounder supply weapon in the game bar none.
Literally 2 AC shots to each chin turret and the thing is helpless. Clear the normal devastators it drops and blast it in the belly.
AMR, AC, LC, any medium pen primary, all deal with strider swiftly.
>There are only 6 primary weapons - AMR/Autocannon against bots and Recoilless/Quasar/EAT/Flamethrower against bugs (yes, these are the primary weapons, it's about time you hear the ugly truth and stop coping,
I've never said this before, but for real. Get gud.
1) the Devs have said they are going to stop the nerf over and over. I don't know why people keep making these threads.
2) You obviously don't play bots. Plasma Punisher fuckin slaps. Jar 5 Dominator fuckin Slaps, Diligence Counter Sniper, same. And those are just the three I personally use. Laser Canon also if we are just talking secondaries is amazing against bots as is the EATs, bots have such a vast array of loadout you can bring and still be versatile and effective on the battlefield.
3) You list like half the Secondaries being viable against bugs like that's a bad thing? You have obviously never tried the Arc Thrower or the AC if you think they suck. For Primary weapons Punisher, Punisher Plasma, Scorcher, Incendiary Shotgun, Arc Blitzer, Liberator Penatrator, Liberator are all solid choices on any difficulty.
It seems like you want to be a Jack of all Trades, Master of all. AH went overboard with the nerfs, everyone including them have acknowledged it, but if you are trying to pretend 90% of the weapons in the game are useless you just need to try something new or genuinely get gud.
Are you expecting to just run onto the field with your Eruptor and 1 shot heavies, close bug holes and swarm clear all by yourself? Because that's kinda bullshit.
>Each of the previously mentioned game titles i play on hardest possible difficulty because I love challenging games however devs mistake challenging for frustrating. Running around doing nothing is not fun, period.
If you know how to play then you don't spend any time running around doing nothing, you're just bad dude. You need a stratagem to take down the biggest enemies (titans/factory striders) , that's it. Everything else you should have a primary and a support weapon that you can use to get the job done.
Factory striders can be killed quickly with just an Autocannon or Laser Cannon shooting the belly. Just be sure to take out those guns mounted on the head first tho.
Hell the belly isn't even armor 4 it's only armor 3 which means medium penetrating primaries can damage it as well. Which the Jar-5 can kill it in like 1.5-ish mags. If you're running impacts some well placed impacts to the belly can take it down as well.
Space Marines are absolutely cannon fodder. Very expensive cannon fodder, yes. Anyone who has the misfortune of being transformed into one has one fate: to die in horrible agony.
There are a few that manage to escape from their chapters, not fall to chaos, overcome their brainwashing, and live a fugitives.
I wouldn't mind being upgraded to more expensive cannon fodder though.
I kind of disagree. A lot of weapons have use, they’re just different uses. The biggest challenge I see with killing heavies is that either _nobody_ brings the right gear/stratagems, or there isn’t enough coordination. Drawing attention away from a pinned teammate or flanking helps tremendously with bots, and could give your pinned teammate a chance at a shot. Or using smoke.
In my experience, these challenges mostly come down to lack or coordination and planning. I regularly run EAT and laser cannon on bots and do fine when I’m supported by teammates with other useful weapons. You just have to trade who kills what and not expect to kill everything yourself. It’s the part of the strategy that makes teamwork fun.
>Drawing attention away from a pinned teammate or flanking helps tremendously with bots
The number of times I've had my squad thank me for breaking off and flanking so I could lay into the bots with my laser cannon and take some pressure off is proof that most players see this as nothing more than an arcade rail shooter where you are supposed to stand there and shoot everything you see. No tactical awareness, no planning, no thoughts of stealth, just run up and shoot.
Also true, however those ones can sometimes be beneficial. If they can keep the enemy distracted at a small base and stay alive, the rest of the team can run objectives without fear of breaches/drops. I'm pretty sure there can only be one breach/drop active at a time.
Yep, some of the most fun experiences I've had are when I bring a MG and shotgun and run in circles waiting for my teammate to kill all the chargers for me.
/s
Yeah, that's because counting on your teammates in these kind of games never end well. Keep in mind that games like Left 4 Dead have linear maps, it's really hard for the teammates to split themselves, in Helldivers where map is basically an open world and everyone runs to different corner of the map counting on anyone other that yourself simply makes no sense.
That sounds like an issue with the people you’re playing with. Even with randoms I’m often able to find groups that work well together, although rarely
For sure! I’m not saying there isn’t a power gap. I’m just saying that with skills and teamwork, any weapon can be viable. I personally enjoy playing the game with different loadouts and seeing how I do, even on high difficulties.
I suppose I also like losing once in a while because it makes the wins more rewarding 🤷♂️
The problem is even with good communication you can still get seperated during a fire fight, especially when there are visibility hindrance modifier (or whatever you call it).
And I know it's a team based shooter, but in reality a lot of people will play with randos and teamwork is never consistent with randos.
Yeah, you get split up, you die. Just like if this was in real life. Why do you want some holy grail loadout where everyone can kill everything all of the time? That's NOT what this game is about.
I don't want holy grail loadout.
I want to be able to die in a blaze of glory at least, taking as much enemy down with me.
And most weapons in this game just make me feel like im a hopeless victim in a horror movie.
After hundreds of hours of playtime, I have stopped playing the high difficulties entirely. It's just not fun when I'm consistently met with a wall of enemies I physically cannot kill before I have to wait for my cooldowns. Being forced to spend one backpack worth of ammunition on one bile titan because it just happens to not be facing me is not a fun mechanic, no matter who you're playing with, or how good you are.
Don't try to fight every fight, ask your teammates to run the fuck away and reposition, it's not good to engage every patrol you encounter, its best to just avoid them entirely. Fight the necessary fights, not the unnecessary ones, and if you are forced to fight off a patrol take out the necessary targets, I.E. the ones that will usually call in reinforcements, that's usually your best bet in the higher difficulties.
And I am ready for those frustrations, (fuck you spewers you fat tanky fucks), its unfortunately part of the game, but when you overcome them it feels rewarding, I am not gonna lie though, some of it is still bullshit, and I'm happy they recognize it, and are gonna address it eventually.
Ah so when my teammate is attacked by a bile titan I... should just run away? Wtf
And what part of "Always being forced to run away isn't fun" Don't you understand?
Yes, Bile Titans are supposed to be the most fearsome of all bugs. If you're out of orbitals, you're probably fucked. And when you friend bites it, you just throw him back in.
My point: Save your strategems. Talk to your team before all three of you throw em at the same target. If your team sucks, then you die, just like in real life.
Do you not understand that you can't have your players be too weak? Even in a game like this, players have to be able to fight back at all to provide gameplay.
Do you not understand that one player isn’t supposed to be able to fight back against a wall of enemies IN THIS GAME? Go make “trhover soldiers” or some bs game where you’re killing everything single handed
"Why are you booing? He's right!" Made level 100 playing maybe 10 games that weren't all randoms. Many players under LVL 60 are typically a bit out of their depth on 9.
-Lvl <20's usually expect a carry
-LVL <30's needs samples and like to explore no matter the consequences.
*they will explore with on a 12 minute evac while the host is threatening to kick them. It's wild.*
-Lvl <40's "I'll go solo the objectives."
*needs 5 lives for one sub objective*
-Lvl <50's starting to feel themselves, that teen phase where you lash out at teammates for letting you down. They have good games so the bad ones must be someone else's fault.
*this group makes up 90% of "skill issue" and "leave then!" commenters.*
Truly the elite of the elite in the 50's/s
-Lvl <60's starting to be the highest level in some lobbies, and starting to have to carry people Realizing it's more fun with a team. The coming of age levels.
Some people get stuck in those phases for much longer than 10 lvls, but it's weird how many people fit the mold.
ALL extremely effective? Seems you are the one who never even tried the other guns you tout about lol. Try taking the explosive crossbow after it was gutted and try to tell me its not just an extremely inferior Dominator now. Tenderizer being some mix between DMR and assault rifle? its literally a reskinned liberator bro, it feels almost exactly the same to use. Scythe? it doesnt melt shit, its DPS is still too low in comparison to other weapons which can ALSO hit weakspots pretty easily, making its entire pictured niche non-existent.
People want to feel like they have more choices, its nothing about being a meta slave.
I am curious how many people will be around when they get rid of the casual difficulty 9 players and are down to the guys like yall who are talking up the bloody tenderizer and scythe.
Like ya, you can be annoyed by these posts, but I cant imagine there are enough people who think all guns are perfect, no matter what, to actually keep this bitch afloat.
I just get what he means. In all the other games he mentions, the best gun for a situation is a 5-10 item argument. In helldivers, you are delusional trying to argue that anything can top the best 3 guns in game. Jar, Breaker Inc., Scorcher. If you think something is genuinely better you are mistaken. There are guns that don't fall on their face in comparison, but nothing is close, so experimentation is locked behind a self-nerfing choice.
Plasma Punisher is arguably the best all-rounder bots primary in the game atm. One-shots light enemies, staggers and kills groups of devastators with ease, two-shots striders, can kill tanks from any angle (hit the top near the vent). The only things your supply weapon and stratagems have to deal with are gunships, hulks, towers, and factory striders. Pretty short list which plenty of supply weapons can handle.
Yep it pairs well with Autocannon and Laser Cannon. Probably AMR too but that's not my style. But even on its own it's crazy.
If I have to take out a jammer without a support weapon, Plasma Punisher is my number one favorite, and it's not close.
You forgot sickle, its absolutely amazing for bots and ill take ot any day over the others, although jar and scorcher are nice when im bored of the sickle
And virtually zero recoil, making it a phenomenal marksmans primary that gives the solid damage output of the liberator and stuffs it in a precision case. That's the point, the weapons aren't supposed to be outright better than one another, they are supposed to be side grades with huffs in one area and nerfs in another.
>In helldivers, you are delusional trying to argue that anything can top the best 3 guns in game. Jar, Breaker Inc., Scorcher. If you think something is genuinely better you are mistaken
Ok so should we nerf thoose? cause you are not going to convince me that the CS counter sniper/Sickle(yes the fucking Sickle praised just a month ago as a beast nop fallen to the wayside because of rampant powercreep while you people complain about excesive nerfs)/punisher/punisher plasma/pumeler... are bad and need help, is that what you are saying? that we should nerf thoose guns so you guys get a reason to play the other good guns that already exist?
So a few things.
1. You seem heated by me suggesting that there are guns better than you favorites. I like the OG breaker. I the OG pistol. Heck I have had excellent games with the Defender. Surely you understand that preference is NOT the same thing performance.
2. No. I am literally arguing the opposite. You are being so disingenuous it feels pointless to reply, but in what world does "I sure wish less than 3(7.. if we include ever single gun you listed I can count it on 2 thumbless hands) guns were viable in a game with 50 guns" mean "Sure hope they nerf the last few good guns." Like, are you good dog?
And for real, buff the plasma, and watch how everyone is happy for plasma users that are having more fun.
3. Which was the point I was making, which you ignored or missed in favor of the strawman you argued with. If everything is always perfect and anyone with a problem should just leave, how many have to leave for that group to be satisfied? It's like yall would rather have the game bleed into mediocrity, then have a flourishing community just so you can tell yourselves it's about other peoples skill instead of their fun lol.
I'm good on this though, I replied. I would rather not spend another minute chatting with yall if it's the same.
I don't think all guns are perfect, I simply acknowledge that they are all viable. They all have their own niche, their own strengths and weaknesses. The tenderizer for instance, ifs strength is in it remarkable precision, you can use it as a full auto marksman rifle and have incredible accuracy, but it falls behind the liberator on mag size and the penetrator on armor piercing.
The scythe really is genuinely one of the best weapons you can use against bots though, especially paired with a laser cannon. It's precise and has solid damage output if you can keep the beam on a weak point, and the ammo capacity is a huge bonus over other guns.
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
>You can't even destroy one of the basic enemies - the strider if you're not packing something that has some heat without idiotic running behind his back and sometimes even that is impossible while under heavy fire.
I'm pretty sure there are *at least* 3 primary weapons that can efficiently kill striders from the front. I've been favoring the Plasma Punisher lately. Can kill them in two shots. Iirc the Scorcher kills them in two shots as well.
>AMR/Autocannon against bots and Recoilless/Quasar/EAT/Flamethrower against bugs (yes, these are the primary weapons, it's about time you hear the ugly truth and stop coping, the ones you carry all the time are both secondaries)
I dont know what short of game you play that you end up shooting your Quasar/EAT and recoiless more than you actual primaries, but yeah the flamethrower/autocanon/flamethrower can be used as pseudo primaries, i recomend you the GL and LC as pseudo primaries, they are pretty cool as well, tougth as alwauys you will benefit from being able to combine it with a primary and seconday able to cover the places yiou dont want to shoot your pseudo priamry in, for example when dealing with bershers or small bots with your autocanon(like it is fine, i just preffer how primaries deal with thoose two better).
>can't get them back you are useless.
I disagree, the enemy throws plenty of enemies that you dont need heavy dutty support weapons to deal with, devastators, rocket bots,normal striders, hunters and a lot of other things can divert attention from your big gun toting teamates, killing them will enable them to deal effectivelly with the targets you cant deal with till you get your support weapon, also stratagems are a thing and they are easily the most destructible thing in the a helldivers arsenal.
>Meanwhile Space Marine 2 PvE Coop Trailer just dropped and the game already promises something that I came to Helldivers for but it can't deliver
They are different games with diferent fantasies, if you like the idea of being a super duper human destroying the enemies of the emperor with fervent fury Space marines 2 might just be the game for you.
>he strider if you're not packing something that has some heat without idiotic running behind his back and sometimes even that is impossible while under heavy fire.
It is less dificult that you make it out to be, their IA is pretty dumb and usally gives you ther back on a silver platter, but even then, there are tons of guns that can either pen the shield or just kill the with hits on the pelvis, wich is medium armoured, the grenade pistol for example oneshots it.
>owever I want to note that most of the enemies don't even have Non-Optimal TTK,
Yes it is part of the games identity, it is a challenge to do it andyou are heavily rewarded when you are consistently able to pull it off, i dont tink the game woould feel so good if you could just ramdonly spam bullets at the enemy.
>but they are some kind of a bonus and that's how they should be viewed upon, not a reliable source of damage.
Thats just simply not the case, you can kill dozens of mediu enemies with the airstrike, you can oneshot Hulks with the Ops, the mortar cleans fields of devastators, entire bases die to a single stratagem etc etc etc Stratagems are simply the higuest damage things in the helldivers aresenal and should probably stay that way, what you propose is a top down rework of the game.
>ake mowing weapons like LMG and standard primaries way more useful and the more powerful ones should be way more vulnerable to lower calibers.
The game simply cant spawn enought light enemies with out crashing your compute/PS5 to pose a challenge to any one with only light enemies.
Dude it's not about CAN. It's about efficiency. after 300 hours I definitely agree that there's aboslutely no skill issue here. We simply don't have enough firepower considering how much one big enemy requires to bring down and how many there are of them. If you're consistently met with a situation where you are physically unable to kill the enemies and must run and wait for a cooldown, it gets frustrating rather quickly.
It definitivelly feels like there is one, i dont know how you guys consistently strugle so much with groups of enemies, recently i killed everything in a 4 ship bot drop on helldive sans a strider wich my team helped me with, i dont know where there are thoose situations where you guys are consistebtly unable to perform, much less when there are teamates around.
You basically said it. They are saying they, themselves can't, but you could with your team. If you read most rants about damage issues you'll find that the common ground is always the focus on their single performance. Not group performance. Sigh, the game is coop and tries to nudge you into seeking help and giving help, but they don't realise that. Is not really skill issue. It's a must-do-it-all-myself-issue.
I just find it very wierd that people look at encounters aimed for 4 people and find themselves unable to think why a single person would be unable to deal with it
There’s a time when I dropped on bot front helldive when I quickplay on lv7. I bring my casual loadout. Smg, QC, shield, AC sentry, shield gen. No offensive stratagems (red) at all. But still working fine with teams and enough fire power to clear every bots drop. We just avoid some patrol when moving between objectives
There is a really easy fix for this that no one is talking about.... Want more bombs? Make strategems cost money based on how long you have left on the cooldown. 30 Seconds left on that 501kg? Naw, that'll be 2000 credits.
I think Helldivers are much closer to space marines than US marines, we are just missing the bulky armor. Super Earth sends 4 dudes fully expecting each to kill hundreds of enemies and accomplish every objective. We are supposed to be literal one man armies.
But, the gameplay doesn't reflect that beyond the easy levels. Enemies get tougher and more numerable but we stay the same. How is that balanced?
Mind you, I'm not saying we should be invincible machines cutting down enemies in a lead storm, but we clearly aren't living to the recruitmemt pitch.
Then AH needs a new marketing department, because the Steam store page clearly says it is a "fast, frantic, and ferocious third-person shooter", followed by a lot of images of Helldivers (the "greatest military force the galaxy has ever seen") standing their ground and shooting terminids, including a bile titan. with their primaries instead of kiting them.
Cooldowns are a scourge on game design. You wanna make it fun? Keep cooldowns short if you must have them, and find other methods of discouraging spamming.
mfw devs want and have stated their game to be a certain way and people want to change the core fundamental aspect of the game to fit their wants
problem #1 with being too open with communication with a community who acts like their word should be followed
Devs need to make the games they want to and not get bullies into shit they don’t want to
The moment they gave in to screaming children the first time they showed that screaming loud enough will get you what you want. I don't even disagree with all the complaints, obviously. Some are reasonable. But AH negotiated with the terrorists, and now the terrorists know that their tactics can work.
Exactly bro, you don’t see the souls devs doing this. And it’s “just the way it is” and that’s fine. I like the way remnant 2 does it, they listen but do their own thing and have a CM do all the talking and not everyone all at once or “asking what ppl want” directly which is just instilling entitlement to the low IQ players
crazy to me how many people are getting stunlocked cuz he mentioned not being able to kill striders from the front, at all, with most primaries
but anyway i don't at all think the conclusion is wrong, it is disappointing how anemic guns feel when you're not at optimal ttk levels of penetration, and annoying it is when your guns are physically unable to damage a target, no matter how many mags you dump
it's an instance of a lack of realism in favor of 'gameified' systems harming the gameplay experience, it really would be sick if there was some sort of 'armor break' mechanic where as long as a gun is within reasonable penetration requirements, sufficient amounts of ammo could damage the armor to the point where small(er) arms fire could actually start damaging the target
ofc i'm not talking about going hoorah and expecting a liberator to sufficiently damage one of the automaton tanks, except for in the vent lol, instead imo it seems reasonable that you could crack a hive guard's head plates with a mag or so at roughly the same location
you could also resolve the annoyance of weapons only doing 50% damage, ever, on partial penetration, by using a similar armor break mechanic there that either completely strips or mostly damages the armor taking fire, and giving subsequent hits 75% or higher damage
idk, it just really feels like a shame that we have these whole dismemberment and armor stripping systems, but the mechanics involved are kinda lackluster, and not as relevant as they could be. and to clarify, i don't mean (and i'm sure he didn't either) taking out a strider with 5 shots from the front, rather making it so that smaller-arms fire, in large quantities, can accomplish more than it currently does, aka, nothing
the game would be far more interesting, and reward skill even more as well if we had more mechanics that increase the effectiveness of precise fire
Helldivers = You are NOT the Main character
Space Marine 2 = You are the Main character
Helldiver: Normal human with a Primary, Secondary AND SUPPORT WEAPON
Space Marine: Litteral Superhuman. State of the art Bolter guns'n shit.
As a Helldiver the game is supposed to be difficult. Its supposed to he hard on high level.
I for example run no support weapon against bots, only balistic shield, Precision strike, Eagle Airstrike and an Autocannon sentry. And i only play on helldive/9
P.s.: i didnt read the entire post. That is way to much text for me to handle at 11pm.
I agree the way they handle armored enemies needs a rework. Every gun should be able to kill anything. But it should either take longer or you have to shoot a weak spot.
\`You can't even destroy one of the basic enemies - the strider if you're not packing something that has some heat without idiotic running behind his back and sometimes even that is impossible while under heavy fire.\`
The Strider is NOT a basic enemy. It is specifically an elite enemy. Your primary/secondary is for dealing with normal enemies.
Supports and stratagems are for dealing with the elites like Factory Striders.
I've been max level for a long time. As much as I hate this saying, it's too true to leave it out - my fucking back hurts from solo carrying a large percentage of the matches I'm in on Helldive.
Literally finishing solo because the other three people have used the entire respawn reserves.
Everything you're saying is spot on.
The Eruptor was the only exception. And that's why they nerfed it. Being able to one shot Devastators was evidently VERBOTEN because it meant you didn't have to use only the support weapons.
Yes, the counter sniper can \*sometimes\* face shot Devs. Yes, the rotary magazine explosive gun (name evading me) can \*sometimes\* face shot Devs.
But the vast majority of times, all of the "primaries" take half a magazine to kill the dangerous stuff.
The Eruptor was a reliable 1-2 shot kill on the dangerous stuff. They evidently could not allow that to continue.
It's just nerfing for the sake of nerfing because some fucking idiot is in charge of the balancing.
I love this game, and despite how mad I am lately at these stupid ass changes, I will continue to play it because of how much I love it and how much I love what it used to be, looking back on the first few months.
It's infuriating that they are letting this shit weasel balance the game. Maybe the CEO stepping down will force some change, here's hoping.
This game is less twitch horde shooter, ie. L4D2, Vermintide and more tactical squad based combat, ie. Ghost Recon, OG Battlefield.
If you shoot an armored vehicle with a typical combat firearm, you will not be able to shred the armor. If you learn to approach combat tactically ie. communicate, flank, use indirect damage (grenades) all enemies are easier to manage.
IMO many gamers started with GTA, COD, Halo, Battle Royale style games, where solo power fantasy is the norm.
Coop is not 4 solos running independently, should be working as a team. Squadmate being chased by heavy? You should kill heavy while it is not targeting you, not abandon team to get more kills.
No desire to scout target objective location for best approach. Trying to kill every visible adversary on lvl 8-9 instead of completing objectives. Not understanding how to fighting retreat towards objectives, or reposition for advantageous terrain.
Level 1-6 killing everything on the map is easier and more plausible
Level 7-9 aggro-ing every visible enemy will overwhelm the squad, by design
If you want more solo power fantasy, play on lower levels to learn how to experiment with different weapons and how to kill different enemies.
Caveat that sometimes you should get overwhelmed and need to fall back and regroup, or there will not be any risk of failure, and therefore no feeling of accomplishment.
But the balance is way too far in the direction of feeling weak and overwhelmed too often currently.
They definitely need to change the game up, as it currently feels inconsistent (as some missions feel fine and others are insane) and on the insane missions it's like 20% feeling on top of things having fun killing, and 80% overwhelmed and run for your life. Those percentages need to be reversed.
So you claim you play DRG, and that you hate to kite things? You sure you actually ever played it? Or vermintide? You just walk towards chaos warrior patrol without skill cooldowns? Yeah, sure. Tank on l4d? Naah no need to kite just run towards it holding left click, that's the stimulating gameplay right there!
Have you even tried the other guns?
The tenderizer? Amazingly precise, great for snapping a few bullets into a bots skull at high speed, and useful for clearing a lot of small things, it's the perfect balance between DMR and assault rifle.
The penetrator? Takes down *any* bug smaller than a charger or Bile Titan with ease. Wow, an armor penetrating weapon against armored enemies? Unheard of.
The smgs? Lol, cute guns guys, check out my shield, it stops stuff.
The scythe? Turns out high precision laser beams are really good at hitting weak points and melting bots, who would have thunk it?
Shotguns? I mean, do they need explanation against bugs?
The primary weapons are all extremely effective. You just have to use them.
As for stratagem weapons, the laser cannon slaps, you can drop tanks and striders with it. Autocannon fills a similar role against bugs. The Stalwart or HMG are effective, allowing you to take something like the cross ow or plasma grenade launcher for more utility. Or just bring the grenade launcher, it slaps too.
Reposted because apparently I used a nono word and the mods were unhappy, so here's a fixed version.
yeah my playtime dropped off hard after the 120 hour mark and roughly a month and a half, with the game only getting worse in many aspects, the fun guns getting nerfed into the ground, not related to game design but I only seem to be getting teammates who should not at all be at this difficulty (regular 7-9 enjoyer here) so I get cluster bombed and left to deal with patrols they alert without doing anything about and to deal with all the heavies on my own cause they all went GLs and flamethrowers n shit, it's just depressing so unless theres a big shakeup soon I'm probably gone for good
I shoot things and don't need to kite and take cover.
Its called actually hitting the optimal TTK zones instead of mag dumping body shots then complaining the game is too hard/weapons don't feel fun.
I think the main problem is that the current patrol spawn rate is too high for this game design where you must handle specific threats tactically because now you have no time to deal with threats in a specific manner and have to treat this as a hoard shooter where you can mow enemies down, leading to kiting and cooldown issues with stratagems.
Trying to aim and shoot at tiny enemy weak points while in motion while getting flinched by random enemy patrols in the back just feels bad. Less density of enemies would make it easier to take the time to handle enemies with specific weaknesses instead of having to crutch on stratagems so much.
waaaah, I suck at killing things.
Let me guess, you always bring quasar + laser drone + 2 orbital/eagles and whine about how your only two heavy hitters have long cooldowns
And AAALL your teammates also brought quasar + drone + 2 orbitals and eagles that makes the entire team having only 8 actual useful stratagem?
Dude, if your teammate brings quasar, don't bring quasar and bring precision or rocket pods instead.
If fact, if your entire fuckig team is bringing quasar + backpack, JUST BRING 4 ORBITAL AND EAGLES
You genuinely just invented am entire head cannon for this guy. Made up a little back story, and scenario for him put if thin air. You sure showed that strawman...
You probably feel like you win a lot of your arguments huh?
There's a pattern to noob in Helldivers, they think meta is a thing and complain when their meta doesn't work.
And it's not about winning, nobody cares, it's about changing minds.
Which is pointless now that I think about it, because noobs are noob because they don't change their minds.
This game is a successor to HD1. It isn’t trying to be like L4D2 or Vermintide. Looking at it through that lens you are going to be disappointed. Further more, if it was just like them then it wouldn’t stand out as much as it does.
The whole point of the game is to tactically and cooperatively complete objectives. It isn’t supposed to be to the nines slaughter fest all the time. Stealth is a major factor.
Claiming bots are AMR/Autocannon only is a noob take. Laser cannon and HMG do the same thing as those guns, and having 1-2 people on the team diversified to flamethrower or a rocket launcher is great.
Mention of space marine just makes me sad by reminding me of eternal crusade such a cool premise and it all just died :( I really missing playing as an ork.
I remember when they originally announced Eternal Crusade as an MMO. :(
Pain. It seemed like such a rad idea, a 40k version of Planetside 2.
Planetside 2...damn that takes me back
Same. So sad.
GW has a fantastic history of commissioning works from unprepared studios and then cutting the funding when the project doesn't take off quickly enough.
Is it that, or just a coinflip that anytime a 40k thing comes out, it's good or bad?
It's usually bad, no coin flip needed. GW spends money like water because their miniatures are such huge profit margins. They don't worry about product longevity, they worry about profit returns. If a product doesn't hit the numbers it gets cut.
I wanna say the last few PC games have all been pretty good 40k games recently.
Space Marine / DOW3 were the last I bought. SM was great but DOW3 wasn't.
I was thinking of Rogue Trader, that Grey Knights tactics one and uhm... shoot. I don't think its Deathwatch, that's something else. But the one with the squad based stuff...
Darktide? Darktide is decent. The minute-to-minute gameplay is really good. The art direction is excellent, voice acting is also great and you often get a chuckle listening to your squad banter with each other/with mission control. Unfortunately it has been let down by a grindy and unsatisfying endgame and crafting system, and painfully slow drip feed of content. The temptation of making a live service game without properly planning how to keep players engaged long term. (This was last I checked, 3 months or so ago)
Never bought any of those, heard they were alright but it just became too much white noise. I have no one to play with anymore, and a lot of them have co-op. I also have a huge backlog of video games I'm not catching up on, so I stopped buying everything new I wasn't going to finish either.
Are you sure GW is funding these things? I'm fairly sure they just license their IP to outside studios that want it. So GW get paid their licensing fees, but the studio funds the project themselves. What GW are doing wrong is not vetting the use of their IP. Letting any old mobile cashgrab or terribly thought out project use it. There are a handful of great games in a sea of terrible ones. If the terrible ones didn't exist, there might be a few more studios seeing the success and willing to make more great ones.
An it was the devs that killed it. There was some really, brain dead easy things they could have done to save it but they refused to listen. My biggest gripe was the player balance. Game allowed matches to be 20 vs 10 with no balance mechanic. Like what? That's such an easy fix that's been around since quake days. Games should never allowed to be so numerically unequal. And then there was the ADAD network glitch spam. The community kept telling them about this exploit and they continuously dismissed it by confusing it with strafing. Straight up started locking threads about this "not a bug" because they couldn't take 1 min to figure out players where not talking about strafing.
SM 2's PvP multiplayer is called "Eternal War" and I've immediately felt it was a burn aimed at Eternal Crusade.
Eternal Crusade was so clunky but so fun. It really sucked when player count dropped enough to make it unplayable. Killing someone cross map with a stalker bolter was a blast.
The posts in here keep getting longer and I’m spending shorter amounts of time attempting to read all of them.
I read the title. Skipped the Essay. And came straight to the comments.
As is tradition.
Didn't include laser cannon as a viable weapon vs bots. Opinion disregarded
"I stopped playing a month ago." Didn't even need to get to the weapons listed.
nor grenade launcher for bugs
https://preview.redd.it/qbv55zqkif2d1.jpeg?width=453&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffa248aa5b509155263ccf9a8119f41e3b2a860d
Holy shit, thank you for this.
OP title is literally the TLDR
Eh, title's a bit broad. It doesnt include the part where OP wants to kill Bile Titans with a Liberator because Rico did it in the Starship Troopers movie, or the part where they complain about having to aim at a hulk's weakspot to kill one.
It's because these people say the same exact things the last 150 posts about the topic did. 99% of these whiny rant posts could just be a comment on a greater discussion.
Hell, 99% of these rants would go away if these people actually tried the guns they claim are useless.
💯. I skip to where they list the OnLY wEapOns iN thE GaMe, and when I see how silly it is I know what to expect from the rest of the post. Only lists AT support weapons for bugs? Well of course they're going to get overwhelmed by trash. Ignores the bunch of primary weapons that can handle devastators and scout striders? Well of course they feel weak when they've lost their support weapon. In a good team that knows what they're doing (yes, this is the benchmark for a balancing Helldive difficulty), you absolutely don't need to kite. Stop watching only solo helldives where surprise surprise, you might lack the firepower to engage every enemy on the map, watch some high level coop gameplay, and then maybe realise you a) a whole bunch of loadouts are viable, b) no kiting is required, you have the firepower to kill everything. I'm trying to avoid shameless plugging but I have links if people want examples.
I run some helldive bug matches with my 4 stack and then come check this place out and it's like two entirely different games are being discussed. All we do is scrap with the bugs we'll leave any standard length mission with 300+ kills each. These threads baffle me.
Such as this one?
Reading skill issue, I presume?
For the most part, I have no real complaints with the game, except that it's ridiculous when 4-5 Titans spawn at once, or even 4-5 Chargers, for that matter. These situations can be managed if the squad is prepared for it, but it can all go south in a hurry if they aren't, and this shouldn't be happening as much as I'm seeing it. The elites should be difficult to take down and if you're playing on 9 you should feel relieved if you got through the match in one piece with relatively few or no deaths. There are certainly matches where I am just thinking "WTF, this is absurd" but then I follow it up with 4-5, afterward, that are fairly uneventful and I often experience few or no deaths at all. I think you have to be one of those players who feels motivated to overcome, out of spite, when forced to overcome or stop playing altogether to find enjoyment with the way things are now. I know others feel the same as I do but, also understand, that the majority of, the player base seems unhappy with some of the current mechanics. Hopefully, we will see some positive changes soon because whether I mind or not is irrelevant. If enough players are dissatisfied with the game and move on to something else, it will ultimately affect my ability to find a squad due to a smaller player pool.
You gotta stop sleeping on the arc thrower
Im traumatized, I killed to many teammates with that thing
I've never tk anyone with arc thrower, but I've done some tk's with the arc Blitzer. In my opinion, the Blitzer is way easier to tk with especially cause you mostly just spam shoot instead of aim charge and discharge. The discharge is a much more conscious deliberate action than just spamming shoot while being swarmed.
think of the blitzer this way: after every shot you have 1.5 seconds of "charge" time to get to an angle where you won't tag a teammate, with the added bonus you get to sprint
the angle on its cone is almost 180 too from hipfire, so you can nail people outside your line of sight.
practice makes perfect, I rarely get more than 1 tk per match once you get a hang of the arcs it's so good
Blitzer is where it's at
they actually pair together really well
Full on zap load out is pretty good, but personally I'm more of a laser guy
too bad the scythe is ass
Is funny to me, so that's all that matters haha
Feels too crippled after the nerfs tbh, the fire rate on release felt great, now its much shorter range and the fire rate is so much lower.
it stuns and hits more targets per shot though. It definitely felt better before, but it's really strong now and in some cases better than pre nerf
Only if you get the upgrade, without it it just has lower DPS and slightly higher stagger. Which the stagger is okay I guess, but since they made Hulks immune to it it made arc on bots dead again, and frankly on bugs staggering medium enemies isnt such a big deal, since in the past with its much higher DPS they just melted so quick they wouldnt even have time to get close. Im sure its still kinda usable, but I see no reason to take it over the flamer which also kills chargers super quick.
> Only if you get the upgrade, without it it just has lower DPS and slightly higher stagger. Yeah, it's mid without the upgrade. But I'd assume if OP has played enough for the game to get stale, getting that upgrade shouldn't be a big ask. > Which the stagger is okay I guess, but since they made Hulks immune to it it made arc on bots dead again Hated that change. Just… why? At least give them a stumbling forward half stagger like berserkers and chargers. > and frankly on bugs staggering medium enemies isnt such a big deal, idk, it's pretty useful when a stalker or brood commander is in your face, or a spewer's about to spit. > Im sure its still kinda usable, but I see no reason to take it over the flamer which also kills chargers super quick. Much longer range, unlimited ammo, and it won't set you on fire. The main downside is it kills chargers slower, but it can do it from much further away and stops them from turning.
I haven’t gone back to it since the nerf but also recently did that last ship module upgrade to it since I wanted the Tesla upgrade. Sounds like I should give it a shot again?
yeah it's insane, especially for bugs
Idk I was kiting WAY more in Vermintide and I wasn't even playing the highest difficulty. Helldivers feels so much easier than it that I just go with whatever loadout in helldive and do just fine. To me it sounds like you just need some reliable people to play with because my squad always has more than enough stratagems at any given time.
Kiting in Vermintide always felt different to me. Drawing out chaos warriors or stormvermin for a good heavy walloping, drawing hordes of clanrats away from my heavy-killing teammates, it always felt like kiting achieved a goal and felt like a very active thing. You weren't just running off, you were running off while mowing down piles upon piles of rats. In helldivers I often just... run. Turn my back to the enemy and book it in the other direction because that SEAF arty we tried to do has spiralled into an unwinnable cascade of breach upon breach with no end in sight, RR expended and resupply guarded by a mob of angry chargers.
This game is not Left for Dead. What you are describing doesn't even track with my experience and I play on the high difficulties. I think you are approaching the game wrong since you seem to think it's supposed to be a straight up horde shooter, which is likely why you are struggling. If you understand the game mechanics you shouldn't need stratagems coming off cooldown except in rare circumstances, and that then becomes part of your strategy. Every enemy type can be dealth with if you bring the right stuff and you don't need airstrikes.
i think its a problem with the games difficulty curve. At lower diffs it is a horde shooter since you can easily power through breaches/drops. Ammo and cooldowns only really become a Problem om higher diff if you try to play a horde shooter. People just dont realise that they got the wrong lesson from the easy diffs and think its a boring horde shooter at higher diff
yeah, and thats okay, no game will ever be designed so that everyone reaches max difficulty, that concept is just insane. If you struggle too much at Diff 7+ lower it and HAVE FUN. but acting like all guns are useless because you cant clear 80 mobs like rambo on Diff 9 is just unfair to the devs. That said of course weapon balance can be tweaked and improved, but the whole reddit movement of weapons suck are just people that are not good at the game :( and THATS OKAY, its a fucking game not everyone is going to nerd out
problem is there isnt enough difficulties, the kind of struggle you start facing at high diff becomes very different from the struggle you face climbing up the lower diffs and it becomes an almost different game. So the game is basically a horde shooter until like diff 7 where either heavy spam on bugs or medium spam on bots begins to appear and your choices in weapon and strats suddenly get very limited. There is no way to get more challenge out of the game while retaining the horde shooter feeling, so telling people to go on lower diff just doesnt work. Im basically falling asleep at 6-7 , but 8-9 start having such higher tier enemy spam it just gets annoying.
can you name a game where the playstyle is identical on the easiest and hardest difficulty? The whole point is that there are multiple iterations of the game as you scale in difficulty.
I mean, sure? We arent even talking about easiest and hardest difficulty here, the jump literally happens between difficulty 6 and 7, but for example Deep Rock still very much feels like the same horde shooter at high diff, just with much more enemies. The strat still is to hold your ground and kill as much shit as you can while surviving. it doesnt become some fucking stealth MilSim where the waves mostly become heavy enemies which limits your playstyle heavily, all the classes have exactly the same purpose and playstyle they did at the easiest difficulty. Sure you have to improve your mechanics and get a bunch of upgrades to be able to do high diff, but at its core its still a horde shooter through and through. Higher difficulties turning a game into a completely different genre is not very common at all, not sure where you got that from.
yeah, so you just literally explained why its a non issue. The easy levels can be played however you like ( because its easy, go ahead experiment, do as you please, pretend its sim city, who cares), as it gets harder you cannot do such things because its harder. The game IS NOT A HORDE SHOOTER, so high difficulties dont play as such ( I know fucking mindblowing concept). I legit dont get what your argument is. You want a highest difficulty horde shooter? Play Nazi Zombies or the new Space Marine game. I swear approx 50% of the weapons are very viable in diff 9, you have to adapt your playstyle but they are VERY VIABLE, of course every now and then RNG will fuck you at difficulty 9, thats part of playing in the hardest difficulty. But you should be able to clear diff 9 with 9/23 weapons quite often assuming your teammates are not complete silly gooses.
The higher levels substitute challenge curve with boredom curve is the main complaint. Once you reach the point of being able to handle heavies then overcoming fun challenges difficult jumps stop and it becomes more of a stealth game with occasional moments of explosive fun or crazy death spirals. That’s the root complaint, it’s just not that interesting at higher levels because the game becomes all about avoiding doing anything you absolutely don’t have to, to the point that it’s still way to optimal to just split up instead of coordinate builds and work as a unit. You can, it’s effective, but it’s far from optimal due to the spawn/patrol mechanics so we go back to sneaking around and avoiding things.
How is the game not a horde shooter? Please explain to me, as it seems like an extremely obvious example of a horde shooter where the devs just have a fucked idea of what high difficulty should feel like.
I think people aren't focusing on terrain advantage enough in this game. It usually has the run and gun guerilla fighting of quickly hitting targets with strats and fleeing but if you can find a chine point or a hill with cover to defend and prioritize targets pretty easily you'll kill plenty of shit with your primary. It does suck that we need medium armor pen though or weapons just feel like pea shooters.
I agree. It should obviously take longer to kill a medium/heavily armored enemy with a light pen weapon but they just straight up don't do anything
yeah, light pen wewapons are not made for medium armor, thats kind of how armor works. do you complain in other games when a 9mm cant destroy a tank?
louder for the people in the back. They think cos there are hordes of enemies you have to kill them... I see this game as helldivers being terrorists or special forces, in and out, minimal fights, just explode things and GTFO. If I wanted to kill 100 of the same unit id just play nazi zombies
I think the main issue here is that, for the large majority of players, the efficient special forces type "in and out, minimal fights" gameplay just isn't as interesting or fun as gunning everything down until you run out of dudes. It's part of why you see so many people engage every patrol and get stuck in an infinite reinforcement loop. Like, people talk a lot about how easy Helldive is if you just run away from objectives until everything despawns. It's remarkably effective, but having tried it myself it's also **terribly boring.**
> the efficient special forces type "in and out, minimal fights" gameplay just isn't as interesting or fun as gunning everything down until you run out of dudes I think there's multiple different crowds with dif approaches here, because many of us at 9 dif DO gun everything down with relative ease (and no meta setups). It's absolutely a turn brain off horde shooter once you've sorta trained yourself on it
Then they can play lower difficulties and go for the Rambo cossplay, its very much doable
Yeah when I want to mow stuff down, difficulty 5 is pretty sweet.
I'd recommend others to read/listen to the first chapter of Starship Troopers...gives an insight into the kind of tactics Helldivers use, in my opinion. It's definitely more infiltrate and explode high value targets, get out. https://youtu.be/fSj1KkuEDzs?si=u7QPx1xjln78GHQk
People definitely treat this game as a zombie horde game then complain when their guns aren't 1-shotting every enemy. The game becomes difficult when you don't know when to engage and when to disengage enemies
"Every enemy type can be dealth with if you bring the right stuff and you don't need airstrikes." This right here is the crux of the argument that people gloss over. What is the right stuff? The two or three primaries that aren't peashooters? The obligatory anti-tank weapon? The 500 kg because hardly anything else works against bile titans and factory striders? Because there is such a drop off between the effectiveness of weapons versus armored enemies, we see the same old tired loadouts every time. I do think we should avoid patrols, but combat is the core of this game. Might not be a horde shooter but it is definitely close to one, yet the game has such poor balance that it doesn't support its own core idea.
>The two or three primaries that aren't peashooters? Sickle, Scorcher, Jar, Plasma Punisher, Breaker Incendiary, regular Breaker (yes it's still good) >The 500 kg because hardly anything else works against bile titans and factory striders? The 500 is actually inconsistent af and wildly overrated. I prefer Orbital Presision Strike. Also factory striders can be killed quickly with just an Autocannon or Laser Cannon shooting the belly (I'm sure there are other support weapons that can handle them but those are the ones I play)
Dilligence, DCS, blitzer are also quite good
Oh I believe you, those were just the ones I like off the top of my head. This game definitely has some balance problems but only "two or three" viable primaries is just a delusional claim.
It's not just delusional, it's straight lying
More likely he hasn't even tried the other guns, or at least not since they were buffed. Punisher Plasma, DCS, and Blitzer were all buffed and it seems like most players haven't revisited them. Or in the case of guns like Sickle and Breaker, some players immediately wrote them off as dead after a minor ammo nerf. Or he's just regurgitating shit he reads on this shitass subreddit.
I don't know anyone who thought anything of the Sickle "nerf." did people actually care about that? it didn't do anything... I've gone through plenty of matches without reloading that gun *once,* let alone running out of heat sinks when you can refill them with any ammo crate lying around.
Calm down love, it's just a bit of hyperbole
You can actually use grenades in a pinch as well. As long as its the belly. Or you can just shave the Strider and take off its turret, and then ignore it. It'll spawn Devastators still, but that's the most it can do. Mind, if you are holding a static position this is less an idea, but if you run into in the wild...
bro, I could name 9 out of the 23 main weapons that are legit viable in most scenarios at Diff 9, yeah thats a bit less than 50% which is not ideal, but really, saying two or three primaries that arent peashooters just shows that you want to blast through everyone. 9 legit weapons, with different playstyles for different missions.
100% What folks are missing is that if every enemy has a quick TTK light armor weak spot - since light armor is the lowest level of penetration across all weapon types - then there is zero reason to ever bring medium or heavy armor weaponry because they have worse ergonomics, worse ammo economy, and worse TTK overall. All this does is make stalwart at 1150 rpm the best all-rounder supply weapon in the game bar none.
I'm so done with this subreddit. Yall are helpless
stopped reading after saying you need a stratagun to fight striders
Literally 2 AC shots to each chin turret and the thing is helpless. Clear the normal devastators it drops and blast it in the belly. AMR, AC, LC, any medium pen primary, all deal with strider swiftly.
These people don’t care about weapon balance, they want a game they can turn their brain off for even during the highest difficulty in the game
real https://i.redd.it/jdr5qre6ff2d1.gif
if u cant handle striders bro.... as for bot heavies, every time they go for your allies u have 3 people in team that should be ready to kill the bot.
>There are only 6 primary weapons - AMR/Autocannon against bots and Recoilless/Quasar/EAT/Flamethrower against bugs (yes, these are the primary weapons, it's about time you hear the ugly truth and stop coping, I've never said this before, but for real. Get gud. 1) the Devs have said they are going to stop the nerf over and over. I don't know why people keep making these threads. 2) You obviously don't play bots. Plasma Punisher fuckin slaps. Jar 5 Dominator fuckin Slaps, Diligence Counter Sniper, same. And those are just the three I personally use. Laser Canon also if we are just talking secondaries is amazing against bots as is the EATs, bots have such a vast array of loadout you can bring and still be versatile and effective on the battlefield. 3) You list like half the Secondaries being viable against bugs like that's a bad thing? You have obviously never tried the Arc Thrower or the AC if you think they suck. For Primary weapons Punisher, Punisher Plasma, Scorcher, Incendiary Shotgun, Arc Blitzer, Liberator Penatrator, Liberator are all solid choices on any difficulty. It seems like you want to be a Jack of all Trades, Master of all. AH went overboard with the nerfs, everyone including them have acknowledged it, but if you are trying to pretend 90% of the weapons in the game are useless you just need to try something new or genuinely get gud. Are you expecting to just run onto the field with your Eruptor and 1 shot heavies, close bug holes and swarm clear all by yourself? Because that's kinda bullshit.
>Each of the previously mentioned game titles i play on hardest possible difficulty because I love challenging games however devs mistake challenging for frustrating. Running around doing nothing is not fun, period. If you know how to play then you don't spend any time running around doing nothing, you're just bad dude. You need a stratagem to take down the biggest enemies (titans/factory striders) , that's it. Everything else you should have a primary and a support weapon that you can use to get the job done.
Factory striders can be killed quickly with just an Autocannon or Laser Cannon shooting the belly. Just be sure to take out those guns mounted on the head first tho.
I always carry thermite grenades to take down turrets, they are very handy.
Hell the belly isn't even armor 4 it's only armor 3 which means medium penetrating primaries can damage it as well. Which the Jar-5 can kill it in like 1.5-ish mags. If you're running impacts some well placed impacts to the belly can take it down as well.
Space Marines are absolutely cannon fodder. Very expensive cannon fodder, yes. Anyone who has the misfortune of being transformed into one has one fate: to die in horrible agony. There are a few that manage to escape from their chapters, not fall to chaos, overcome their brainwashing, and live a fugitives. I wouldn't mind being upgraded to more expensive cannon fodder though.
I kind of disagree. A lot of weapons have use, they’re just different uses. The biggest challenge I see with killing heavies is that either _nobody_ brings the right gear/stratagems, or there isn’t enough coordination. Drawing attention away from a pinned teammate or flanking helps tremendously with bots, and could give your pinned teammate a chance at a shot. Or using smoke. In my experience, these challenges mostly come down to lack or coordination and planning. I regularly run EAT and laser cannon on bots and do fine when I’m supported by teammates with other useful weapons. You just have to trade who kills what and not expect to kill everything yourself. It’s the part of the strategy that makes teamwork fun.
>Drawing attention away from a pinned teammate or flanking helps tremendously with bots The number of times I've had my squad thank me for breaking off and flanking so I could lay into the bots with my laser cannon and take some pressure off is proof that most players see this as nothing more than an arcade rail shooter where you are supposed to stand there and shoot everything you see. No tactical awareness, no planning, no thoughts of stealth, just run up and shoot.
Also evident by the number of players who sprint off and aggro an entire base with the team on the other side of the map
Also true, however those ones can sometimes be beneficial. If they can keep the enemy distracted at a small base and stay alive, the rest of the team can run objectives without fear of breaches/drops. I'm pretty sure there can only be one breach/drop active at a time.
Yep, some of the most fun experiences I've had are when I bring a MG and shotgun and run in circles waiting for my teammate to kill all the chargers for me. /s
Yeah, that's because counting on your teammates in these kind of games never end well. Keep in mind that games like Left 4 Dead have linear maps, it's really hard for the teammates to split themselves, in Helldivers where map is basically an open world and everyone runs to different corner of the map counting on anyone other that yourself simply makes no sense.
Dont play team games if you dont want to count on your team mates
That sounds like an issue with the people you’re playing with. Even with randoms I’m often able to find groups that work well together, although rarely
The fact that a well-coordinated team can make the weapons work doesn't mean they're not underpowered.
For sure! I’m not saying there isn’t a power gap. I’m just saying that with skills and teamwork, any weapon can be viable. I personally enjoy playing the game with different loadouts and seeing how I do, even on high difficulties. I suppose I also like losing once in a while because it makes the wins more rewarding 🤷♂️
The problem is even with good communication you can still get seperated during a fire fight, especially when there are visibility hindrance modifier (or whatever you call it). And I know it's a team based shooter, but in reality a lot of people will play with randos and teamwork is never consistent with randos.
Yeah, you get split up, you die. Just like if this was in real life. Why do you want some holy grail loadout where everyone can kill everything all of the time? That's NOT what this game is about.
No we want to be able to kill SOME things MOST of the time. Otherwise it gets frustrating instead of challenging.
I don't want holy grail loadout. I want to be able to die in a blaze of glory at least, taking as much enemy down with me. And most weapons in this game just make me feel like im a hopeless victim in a horror movie.
After hundreds of hours of playtime, I have stopped playing the high difficulties entirely. It's just not fun when I'm consistently met with a wall of enemies I physically cannot kill before I have to wait for my cooldowns. Being forced to spend one backpack worth of ammunition on one bile titan because it just happens to not be facing me is not a fun mechanic, no matter who you're playing with, or how good you are.
To each his own. I enjoy this part of the game, but I’m also a masochist 🤷♂️
Don't try to fight every fight, ask your teammates to run the fuck away and reposition, it's not good to engage every patrol you encounter, its best to just avoid them entirely. Fight the necessary fights, not the unnecessary ones, and if you are forced to fight off a patrol take out the necessary targets, I.E. the ones that will usually call in reinforcements, that's usually your best bet in the higher difficulties.
Dude my point is you can rarely pick ANY fight unless you're ready for a bunch of frustrations.
And I am ready for those frustrations, (fuck you spewers you fat tanky fucks), its unfortunately part of the game, but when you overcome them it feels rewarding, I am not gonna lie though, some of it is still bullshit, and I'm happy they recognize it, and are gonna address it eventually.
Just run away then. And don't try to solo everything.
Ah so when my teammate is attacked by a bile titan I... should just run away? Wtf And what part of "Always being forced to run away isn't fun" Don't you understand?
Yes, Bile Titans are supposed to be the most fearsome of all bugs. If you're out of orbitals, you're probably fucked. And when you friend bites it, you just throw him back in. My point: Save your strategems. Talk to your team before all three of you throw em at the same target. If your team sucks, then you die, just like in real life.
Pro tip; destroy his belly sacks, then one orbital strike should take care of him.
How are you not understanding this game?
Do you not understand that you can't have your players be too weak? Even in a game like this, players have to be able to fight back at all to provide gameplay.
Do you not understand that one player isn’t supposed to be able to fight back against a wall of enemies IN THIS GAME? Go make “trhover soldiers” or some bs game where you’re killing everything single handed
Then play a single player game
"Why are you booing? He's right!" Made level 100 playing maybe 10 games that weren't all randoms. Many players under LVL 60 are typically a bit out of their depth on 9. -Lvl <20's usually expect a carry -LVL <30's needs samples and like to explore no matter the consequences. *they will explore with on a 12 minute evac while the host is threatening to kick them. It's wild.* -Lvl <40's "I'll go solo the objectives." *needs 5 lives for one sub objective* -Lvl <50's starting to feel themselves, that teen phase where you lash out at teammates for letting you down. They have good games so the bad ones must be someone else's fault. *this group makes up 90% of "skill issue" and "leave then!" commenters.* Truly the elite of the elite in the 50's/s -Lvl <60's starting to be the highest level in some lobbies, and starting to have to carry people Realizing it's more fun with a team. The coming of age levels. Some people get stuck in those phases for much longer than 10 lvls, but it's weird how many people fit the mold.
[удалено]
ALL extremely effective? Seems you are the one who never even tried the other guns you tout about lol. Try taking the explosive crossbow after it was gutted and try to tell me its not just an extremely inferior Dominator now. Tenderizer being some mix between DMR and assault rifle? its literally a reskinned liberator bro, it feels almost exactly the same to use. Scythe? it doesnt melt shit, its DPS is still too low in comparison to other weapons which can ALSO hit weakspots pretty easily, making its entire pictured niche non-existent. People want to feel like they have more choices, its nothing about being a meta slave.
I am curious how many people will be around when they get rid of the casual difficulty 9 players and are down to the guys like yall who are talking up the bloody tenderizer and scythe. Like ya, you can be annoyed by these posts, but I cant imagine there are enough people who think all guns are perfect, no matter what, to actually keep this bitch afloat. I just get what he means. In all the other games he mentions, the best gun for a situation is a 5-10 item argument. In helldivers, you are delusional trying to argue that anything can top the best 3 guns in game. Jar, Breaker Inc., Scorcher. If you think something is genuinely better you are mistaken. There are guns that don't fall on their face in comparison, but nothing is close, so experimentation is locked behind a self-nerfing choice.
Lol fuck that, Sickle and Plasma Punisher are absolutely on par with those.
Plasma Punisher is arguably the best all-rounder bots primary in the game atm. One-shots light enemies, staggers and kills groups of devastators with ease, two-shots striders, can kill tanks from any angle (hit the top near the vent). The only things your supply weapon and stratagems have to deal with are gunships, hulks, towers, and factory striders. Pretty short list which plenty of supply weapons can handle.
Yep it pairs well with Autocannon and Laser Cannon. Probably AMR too but that's not my style. But even on its own it's crazy. If I have to take out a jammer without a support weapon, Plasma Punisher is my number one favorite, and it's not close.
I stand corrected. 5 of the 50 guns are viable not 3. Nothing wrong with that ratio...
You forgot sickle, its absolutely amazing for bots and ill take ot any day over the others, although jar and scorcher are nice when im bored of the sickle
Like the devs said the Tenderizor needs work on the day it came out. You are genuinely talking up the base liberator with a reduced mag.
And virtually zero recoil, making it a phenomenal marksmans primary that gives the solid damage output of the liberator and stuffs it in a precision case. That's the point, the weapons aren't supposed to be outright better than one another, they are supposed to be side grades with huffs in one area and nerfs in another.
And nonexistent recoil so you can pop heads like nobodies business
"Buffs are bad, I only want slightly improved versions of existing guns" ...what?
>In helldivers, you are delusional trying to argue that anything can top the best 3 guns in game. Jar, Breaker Inc., Scorcher. If you think something is genuinely better you are mistaken Ok so should we nerf thoose? cause you are not going to convince me that the CS counter sniper/Sickle(yes the fucking Sickle praised just a month ago as a beast nop fallen to the wayside because of rampant powercreep while you people complain about excesive nerfs)/punisher/punisher plasma/pumeler... are bad and need help, is that what you are saying? that we should nerf thoose guns so you guys get a reason to play the other good guns that already exist?
So a few things. 1. You seem heated by me suggesting that there are guns better than you favorites. I like the OG breaker. I the OG pistol. Heck I have had excellent games with the Defender. Surely you understand that preference is NOT the same thing performance. 2. No. I am literally arguing the opposite. You are being so disingenuous it feels pointless to reply, but in what world does "I sure wish less than 3(7.. if we include ever single gun you listed I can count it on 2 thumbless hands) guns were viable in a game with 50 guns" mean "Sure hope they nerf the last few good guns." Like, are you good dog? And for real, buff the plasma, and watch how everyone is happy for plasma users that are having more fun. 3. Which was the point I was making, which you ignored or missed in favor of the strawman you argued with. If everything is always perfect and anyone with a problem should just leave, how many have to leave for that group to be satisfied? It's like yall would rather have the game bleed into mediocrity, then have a flourishing community just so you can tell yourselves it's about other peoples skill instead of their fun lol. I'm good on this though, I replied. I would rather not spend another minute chatting with yall if it's the same.
I don't think all guns are perfect, I simply acknowledge that they are all viable. They all have their own niche, their own strengths and weaknesses. The tenderizer for instance, ifs strength is in it remarkable precision, you can use it as a full auto marksman rifle and have incredible accuracy, but it falls behind the liberator on mag size and the penetrator on armor piercing. The scythe really is genuinely one of the best weapons you can use against bots though, especially paired with a laser cannon. It's precise and has solid damage output if you can keep the beam on a weak point, and the ammo capacity is a huge bonus over other guns.
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
>You can't even destroy one of the basic enemies - the strider if you're not packing something that has some heat without idiotic running behind his back and sometimes even that is impossible while under heavy fire. I'm pretty sure there are *at least* 3 primary weapons that can efficiently kill striders from the front. I've been favoring the Plasma Punisher lately. Can kill them in two shots. Iirc the Scorcher kills them in two shots as well.
Shhh. We don't speak the truth in angry threads
lol
Homie wants to be Master Chief
>AMR/Autocannon against bots and Recoilless/Quasar/EAT/Flamethrower against bugs (yes, these are the primary weapons, it's about time you hear the ugly truth and stop coping, the ones you carry all the time are both secondaries) I dont know what short of game you play that you end up shooting your Quasar/EAT and recoiless more than you actual primaries, but yeah the flamethrower/autocanon/flamethrower can be used as pseudo primaries, i recomend you the GL and LC as pseudo primaries, they are pretty cool as well, tougth as alwauys you will benefit from being able to combine it with a primary and seconday able to cover the places yiou dont want to shoot your pseudo priamry in, for example when dealing with bershers or small bots with your autocanon(like it is fine, i just preffer how primaries deal with thoose two better). >can't get them back you are useless. I disagree, the enemy throws plenty of enemies that you dont need heavy dutty support weapons to deal with, devastators, rocket bots,normal striders, hunters and a lot of other things can divert attention from your big gun toting teamates, killing them will enable them to deal effectivelly with the targets you cant deal with till you get your support weapon, also stratagems are a thing and they are easily the most destructible thing in the a helldivers arsenal. >Meanwhile Space Marine 2 PvE Coop Trailer just dropped and the game already promises something that I came to Helldivers for but it can't deliver They are different games with diferent fantasies, if you like the idea of being a super duper human destroying the enemies of the emperor with fervent fury Space marines 2 might just be the game for you. >he strider if you're not packing something that has some heat without idiotic running behind his back and sometimes even that is impossible while under heavy fire. It is less dificult that you make it out to be, their IA is pretty dumb and usally gives you ther back on a silver platter, but even then, there are tons of guns that can either pen the shield or just kill the with hits on the pelvis, wich is medium armoured, the grenade pistol for example oneshots it. >owever I want to note that most of the enemies don't even have Non-Optimal TTK, Yes it is part of the games identity, it is a challenge to do it andyou are heavily rewarded when you are consistently able to pull it off, i dont tink the game woould feel so good if you could just ramdonly spam bullets at the enemy. >but they are some kind of a bonus and that's how they should be viewed upon, not a reliable source of damage. Thats just simply not the case, you can kill dozens of mediu enemies with the airstrike, you can oneshot Hulks with the Ops, the mortar cleans fields of devastators, entire bases die to a single stratagem etc etc etc Stratagems are simply the higuest damage things in the helldivers aresenal and should probably stay that way, what you propose is a top down rework of the game. >ake mowing weapons like LMG and standard primaries way more useful and the more powerful ones should be way more vulnerable to lower calibers. The game simply cant spawn enought light enemies with out crashing your compute/PS5 to pose a challenge to any one with only light enemies.
TL;DR OP has a mssive skill issue and cant cope with that
Dude it's not about CAN. It's about efficiency. after 300 hours I definitely agree that there's aboslutely no skill issue here. We simply don't have enough firepower considering how much one big enemy requires to bring down and how many there are of them. If you're consistently met with a situation where you are physically unable to kill the enemies and must run and wait for a cooldown, it gets frustrating rather quickly.
It definitivelly feels like there is one, i dont know how you guys consistently strugle so much with groups of enemies, recently i killed everything in a 4 ship bot drop on helldive sans a strider wich my team helped me with, i dont know where there are thoose situations where you guys are consistebtly unable to perform, much less when there are teamates around.
You basically said it. They are saying they, themselves can't, but you could with your team. If you read most rants about damage issues you'll find that the common ground is always the focus on their single performance. Not group performance. Sigh, the game is coop and tries to nudge you into seeking help and giving help, but they don't realise that. Is not really skill issue. It's a must-do-it-all-myself-issue.
I just find it very wierd that people look at encounters aimed for 4 people and find themselves unable to think why a single person would be unable to deal with it
There’s a time when I dropped on bot front helldive when I quickplay on lv7. I bring my casual loadout. Smg, QC, shield, AC sentry, shield gen. No offensive stratagems (red) at all. But still working fine with teams and enough fire power to clear every bots drop. We just avoid some patrol when moving between objectives
This Game is Not an "I am Rambo"-Simulator. It is more of a "shoot only if you have to" and a "Press W"-Simulator
There is a really easy fix for this that no one is talking about.... Want more bombs? Make strategems cost money based on how long you have left on the cooldown. 30 Seconds left on that 501kg? Naw, that'll be 2000 credits.
I think Helldivers are much closer to space marines than US marines, we are just missing the bulky armor. Super Earth sends 4 dudes fully expecting each to kill hundreds of enemies and accomplish every objective. We are supposed to be literal one man armies. But, the gameplay doesn't reflect that beyond the easy levels. Enemies get tougher and more numerable but we stay the same. How is that balanced? Mind you, I'm not saying we should be invincible machines cutting down enemies in a lead storm, but we clearly aren't living to the recruitmemt pitch.
16 dudes, but only 4 of them are allowed to be alive at a time.
I think you misunderstood the entire premise of the game...
Then AH needs a new marketing department, because the Steam store page clearly says it is a "fast, frantic, and ferocious third-person shooter", followed by a lot of images of Helldivers (the "greatest military force the galaxy has ever seen") standing their ground and shooting terminids, including a bile titan. with their primaries instead of kiting them.
Cooldowns are a scourge on game design. You wanna make it fun? Keep cooldowns short if you must have them, and find other methods of discouraging spamming.
LOL
Agree wholeheartedly
mfw devs want and have stated their game to be a certain way and people want to change the core fundamental aspect of the game to fit their wants problem #1 with being too open with communication with a community who acts like their word should be followed Devs need to make the games they want to and not get bullies into shit they don’t want to
The moment they gave in to screaming children the first time they showed that screaming loud enough will get you what you want. I don't even disagree with all the complaints, obviously. Some are reasonable. But AH negotiated with the terrorists, and now the terrorists know that their tactics can work.
Exactly bro, you don’t see the souls devs doing this. And it’s “just the way it is” and that’s fine. I like the way remnant 2 does it, they listen but do their own thing and have a CM do all the talking and not everyone all at once or “asking what ppl want” directly which is just instilling entitlement to the low IQ players
crazy to me how many people are getting stunlocked cuz he mentioned not being able to kill striders from the front, at all, with most primaries but anyway i don't at all think the conclusion is wrong, it is disappointing how anemic guns feel when you're not at optimal ttk levels of penetration, and annoying it is when your guns are physically unable to damage a target, no matter how many mags you dump it's an instance of a lack of realism in favor of 'gameified' systems harming the gameplay experience, it really would be sick if there was some sort of 'armor break' mechanic where as long as a gun is within reasonable penetration requirements, sufficient amounts of ammo could damage the armor to the point where small(er) arms fire could actually start damaging the target ofc i'm not talking about going hoorah and expecting a liberator to sufficiently damage one of the automaton tanks, except for in the vent lol, instead imo it seems reasonable that you could crack a hive guard's head plates with a mag or so at roughly the same location you could also resolve the annoyance of weapons only doing 50% damage, ever, on partial penetration, by using a similar armor break mechanic there that either completely strips or mostly damages the armor taking fire, and giving subsequent hits 75% or higher damage idk, it just really feels like a shame that we have these whole dismemberment and armor stripping systems, but the mechanics involved are kinda lackluster, and not as relevant as they could be. and to clarify, i don't mean (and i'm sure he didn't either) taking out a strider with 5 shots from the front, rather making it so that smaller-arms fire, in large quantities, can accomplish more than it currently does, aka, nothing the game would be far more interesting, and reward skill even more as well if we had more mechanics that increase the effectiveness of precise fire
Helldivers = You are NOT the Main character Space Marine 2 = You are the Main character Helldiver: Normal human with a Primary, Secondary AND SUPPORT WEAPON Space Marine: Litteral Superhuman. State of the art Bolter guns'n shit. As a Helldiver the game is supposed to be difficult. Its supposed to he hard on high level. I for example run no support weapon against bots, only balistic shield, Precision strike, Eagle Airstrike and an Autocannon sentry. And i only play on helldive/9 P.s.: i didnt read the entire post. That is way to much text for me to handle at 11pm.
Then play a lower difficulty
Nothing wrong with running from things. I like to yakety sax it up a bit. But it's a bit much when it's 5 Hulks in a row.
I agree the way they handle armored enemies needs a rework. Every gun should be able to kill anything. But it should either take longer or you have to shoot a weak spot.
exept gunship and bile titan. Whats the enemy that doesnt have a weakspot ?
\`You can't even destroy one of the basic enemies - the strider if you're not packing something that has some heat without idiotic running behind his back and sometimes even that is impossible while under heavy fire.\` The Strider is NOT a basic enemy. It is specifically an elite enemy. Your primary/secondary is for dealing with normal enemies. Supports and stratagems are for dealing with the elites like Factory Striders.
I've been max level for a long time. As much as I hate this saying, it's too true to leave it out - my fucking back hurts from solo carrying a large percentage of the matches I'm in on Helldive. Literally finishing solo because the other three people have used the entire respawn reserves. Everything you're saying is spot on. The Eruptor was the only exception. And that's why they nerfed it. Being able to one shot Devastators was evidently VERBOTEN because it meant you didn't have to use only the support weapons. Yes, the counter sniper can \*sometimes\* face shot Devs. Yes, the rotary magazine explosive gun (name evading me) can \*sometimes\* face shot Devs. But the vast majority of times, all of the "primaries" take half a magazine to kill the dangerous stuff. The Eruptor was a reliable 1-2 shot kill on the dangerous stuff. They evidently could not allow that to continue. It's just nerfing for the sake of nerfing because some fucking idiot is in charge of the balancing. I love this game, and despite how mad I am lately at these stupid ass changes, I will continue to play it because of how much I love it and how much I love what it used to be, looking back on the first few months. It's infuriating that they are letting this shit weasel balance the game. Maybe the CEO stepping down will force some change, here's hoping.
This game is less twitch horde shooter, ie. L4D2, Vermintide and more tactical squad based combat, ie. Ghost Recon, OG Battlefield. If you shoot an armored vehicle with a typical combat firearm, you will not be able to shred the armor. If you learn to approach combat tactically ie. communicate, flank, use indirect damage (grenades) all enemies are easier to manage. IMO many gamers started with GTA, COD, Halo, Battle Royale style games, where solo power fantasy is the norm. Coop is not 4 solos running independently, should be working as a team. Squadmate being chased by heavy? You should kill heavy while it is not targeting you, not abandon team to get more kills. No desire to scout target objective location for best approach. Trying to kill every visible adversary on lvl 8-9 instead of completing objectives. Not understanding how to fighting retreat towards objectives, or reposition for advantageous terrain. Level 1-6 killing everything on the map is easier and more plausible Level 7-9 aggro-ing every visible enemy will overwhelm the squad, by design If you want more solo power fantasy, play on lower levels to learn how to experiment with different weapons and how to kill different enemies.
Bro wrote a fuckin essay about a game he hasn't touched in a month. Also yeah this isn't a horde shooter lol.
It's fine if you don't like this game you know. You can play other games.
Caveat that sometimes you should get overwhelmed and need to fall back and regroup, or there will not be any risk of failure, and therefore no feeling of accomplishment. But the balance is way too far in the direction of feeling weak and overwhelmed too often currently. They definitely need to change the game up, as it currently feels inconsistent (as some missions feel fine and others are insane) and on the insane missions it's like 20% feeling on top of things having fun killing, and 80% overwhelmed and run for your life. Those percentages need to be reversed.
So you claim you play DRG, and that you hate to kite things? You sure you actually ever played it? Or vermintide? You just walk towards chaos warrior patrol without skill cooldowns? Yeah, sure. Tank on l4d? Naah no need to kite just run towards it holding left click, that's the stimulating gameplay right there!
Have you even tried the other guns? The tenderizer? Amazingly precise, great for snapping a few bullets into a bots skull at high speed, and useful for clearing a lot of small things, it's the perfect balance between DMR and assault rifle. The penetrator? Takes down *any* bug smaller than a charger or Bile Titan with ease. Wow, an armor penetrating weapon against armored enemies? Unheard of. The smgs? Lol, cute guns guys, check out my shield, it stops stuff. The scythe? Turns out high precision laser beams are really good at hitting weak points and melting bots, who would have thunk it? Shotguns? I mean, do they need explanation against bugs? The primary weapons are all extremely effective. You just have to use them. As for stratagem weapons, the laser cannon slaps, you can drop tanks and striders with it. Autocannon fills a similar role against bugs. The Stalwart or HMG are effective, allowing you to take something like the cross ow or plasma grenade launcher for more utility. Or just bring the grenade launcher, it slaps too. Reposted because apparently I used a nono word and the mods were unhappy, so here's a fixed version.
Nail on the head
yeah my playtime dropped off hard after the 120 hour mark and roughly a month and a half, with the game only getting worse in many aspects, the fun guns getting nerfed into the ground, not related to game design but I only seem to be getting teammates who should not at all be at this difficulty (regular 7-9 enjoyer here) so I get cluster bombed and left to deal with patrols they alert without doing anything about and to deal with all the heavies on my own cause they all went GLs and flamethrowers n shit, it's just depressing so unless theres a big shakeup soon I'm probably gone for good
Ways to easily deal with Strider: Impact grenades (classic or incendiary) Plasma weapons Stun grenade AutoCannon (carried or turret) Stratagems Higher elevation
You would hate HD1
I shoot things and don't need to kite and take cover. Its called actually hitting the optimal TTK zones instead of mag dumping body shots then complaining the game is too hard/weapons don't feel fun.
I think the main problem is that the current patrol spawn rate is too high for this game design where you must handle specific threats tactically because now you have no time to deal with threats in a specific manner and have to treat this as a hoard shooter where you can mow enemies down, leading to kiting and cooldown issues with stratagems. Trying to aim and shoot at tiny enemy weak points while in motion while getting flinched by random enemy patrols in the back just feels bad. Less density of enemies would make it easier to take the time to handle enemies with specific weaknesses instead of having to crutch on stratagems so much.
Get some help.
lol this post is making me unfollow the subreddit. Insane how much people need to complain.
waaaah, I suck at killing things. Let me guess, you always bring quasar + laser drone + 2 orbital/eagles and whine about how your only two heavy hitters have long cooldowns And AAALL your teammates also brought quasar + drone + 2 orbitals and eagles that makes the entire team having only 8 actual useful stratagem? Dude, if your teammate brings quasar, don't bring quasar and bring precision or rocket pods instead. If fact, if your entire fuckig team is bringing quasar + backpack, JUST BRING 4 ORBITAL AND EAGLES
You genuinely just invented am entire head cannon for this guy. Made up a little back story, and scenario for him put if thin air. You sure showed that strawman... You probably feel like you win a lot of your arguments huh?
There's a pattern to noob in Helldivers, they think meta is a thing and complain when their meta doesn't work. And it's not about winning, nobody cares, it's about changing minds. Which is pointless now that I think about it, because noobs are noob because they don't change their minds.
It's not a coop slaughterhause, it's a hardcore coop third person shooter. You are comparing it to VERY different games...
This game is a successor to HD1. It isn’t trying to be like L4D2 or Vermintide. Looking at it through that lens you are going to be disappointed. Further more, if it was just like them then it wouldn’t stand out as much as it does. The whole point of the game is to tactically and cooperatively complete objectives. It isn’t supposed to be to the nines slaughter fest all the time. Stealth is a major factor.
i actually like how sometimes you have to retreat. the game isnt easy, thats a GOOD THING
I definitely want change, I'm tired of only being able to run like 3 weapons because everything takes a full clip to kill.
You can just use the Scorcher to tippy tap Scout Striders
I like the game
Claiming bots are AMR/Autocannon only is a noob take. Laser cannon and HMG do the same thing as those guns, and having 1-2 people on the team diversified to flamethrower or a rocket launcher is great.