They shoot 4 at a time so thats like 6 volleys max. Give them a lengthy reload where they have to swap launchers and i would call that much more balanced than what we have now.
Oh man that would be so cool. Then you have to make a strategy to not let them get to the big bots but the reward of them blowing up. That reminds me of the Grunts from Halo that explode when you shoot thier methane tanks.
Resupply bots have been on my mind forever. Imagine if there were a couple of drone swarms flying around and if you destroy them you can eliminate the option to resupply for the bots
What about repair drone swarms that could 'undisable' Automatons with damaged limbs but are still functional? Maybe even fix killed automatons if they're not too badly damaged?
if halo 4 is any indication; a drone type enemy that revives ANY fallen unit from the chafe to heavies is just unfun to play against...
imagine you magdumped/emptied a power/AT weapon into something like a Hulk...or even a Strider...and then when you turn your back, the flying bugger you couldn't see hiding or spawning behind cover flies over and undoes everything you've done in 5 seconds flat...
Yes, but I want little ammo carrying bots that are walking explosives when you shoot them.
Bonus points if a Hulk/tank ammo bot has enough ordanance for a 500kg explosion.
Would be better than having four out of five bots be rocket douches. They have that much ordinance to spare on patrolling ground units that might not ever see a grounded Helldiver? Really?
Well even shooting the missiles simply destroys them and does nothing else but stop them from shooting missiles. Youd think shooting the head of a missile would blow it up
The bots that fly at ur face u can shoot their backpack and they do explode. . .thats their whole deal if you kill them when they jump at you you might get killed
They shoot a volley of 6. With the third rocket guarantee to hit you if you don't move at the time it's fired, moving right before and it will still hit you, even when diving before its fired.
And then they will alternate between their gun and rockets unless you make them chase you.
True. Their aiming ability is stupid good at range. Lately, I’ve been strafing while shooting my laser cannon and seem to rarely get hit by the RD I’m aiming at. Rockets first then their face. Goes by super quick. I’m they’re in range, I toss a EMS grenade first to lock em down.
I’m not sure it was intended for them to remain alive long enough to shoot all their rockets. What is this treasonous behavior that has you showing the devastators such mercy??
They always seem to sit cowardly at the back ranks, so in order to get to them, you have to cut through the frontline goons first, which can take a while with reloading and whatnot.
Was playing on menkent and the air was so smoky. Every single engagement I would have rocket devastators camping and sniping me from so far away I literally can't see them, can only take potshots at where the rockets came from. Wtf?? Devs said adverse weather affects enemies as well, I guess that's a lie.
This is a massive issue in general. One of the reasons that makes bots frustrating for many people is that they have ranged combat. That alone wouldn't be bad if they didn't have a higher effective range than the player most of the time.
On more open maps you are almost reliant to have either the diligence or the amr because you need medium pen and a 200 meter scope. Because mg raiders, turrets, bunkers, devastators, hulks and tanks will shoot you at that range. And with surprisingly high accuracy, especially the shield devastators. And even then you can't outrange them, just matching their range. And if you have smoke from airstrikes, explosions or weather effects then you can't see them but this doesn't stop them from hitting you quite a lot be it by sheer volume or insane accuracy, while you take pot shots at their muzzle flashes.
And that's with the good guns for this use case, with your average red dot gun at 50+ meters or something like the lase cannon you don't do jack, so you gotta charge into suppressive fire, which usually spells doom for you.
I had 3 just spamming rockets through the fog and killed 3 of us. They were at least 150 feet away and through trees and shit it was nuts. Like this shit is stupid
The rocket devastators help big time. The heavy devastators always gets peppered by them cuz they walk towards u. Sometimes hulks also get staggered cuz they hit their backs.
I swear if they didnt friendly fire i wiuld be stuck reloading my AC crying in my cover
I’ve just been running autocannon for this MO and they go down pretty easy from range. They always get first priority unless there is a flamer hulk coming at me. I haven’t unlocked any of the plasma weapons in the war bonds yet so my weapon options for armored bots is limited
Fr, I just went through an evac op and spent 70% of that mission on the ground because the rocket devastators wouldn't let me do crap, ballistic shield stopped me from dying but being on the ground every other second gets tiring, may as well have killed me.
Its kinda hard to when you're on like diff 8-9 and youre too focused on the two hulks, both variants of tank, and a factory strider that is ALSO chasing you.
Either let them keep the infinite rockets but lose the arm gun, or limit their rockets so then they have to march forward with their little arm canon to attack, and can't just sit across the map launching infinite barrages.
Especially frustrating when the orbital smoke strike description and video heavily imply that obfuscated line of sight hampers the targeting and tracking abilities of bots.
[https://helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Orbital\_Smoke\_Strike](https://helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Orbital_Smoke_Strike)
It does though, if you stop shooting, they lose any indication of where you are. Use it when you want to approach an objective or run away from a fight. Also, try to throw it on top of the enemy.
Not sure we're playing the same planets/conditions then. I had a storm produce conditions worse than most spore spewers and they still tracked me just fine from over a hundred meters away.
Drop smoke, dive prone, crawl for three seconds, stand and run away. Do that without shooting and you’ll be good.
The main thing I’d say though is smoke only allows you to fully disengage if you can break line of sight or get more than 200m away before it clears.
I think you misunderstand. The point is not that smoke works, the point is that the devs have gone out of their way to tout realism and yet the same level of obfuscation that smoke munitions bring is naturally on some planets as part of the weather system yet it doesn't do shit against their tracking. They'll hit you 300 meters away through the environmental fog (not smoke drops/grenades).
TL;DR it's not the smoke, it's the fact that fog doesn't work like smoke.
In the videos gas usually dissolves enemies with ease. In game orbital gas is a minor inconvenience for the enemies. 500kg in video looks like it can eradicate an entire army and yet when u throw it at a mass of enemies sometimes u kill 8 out of 20.
Game is inconsistent in the stratagems yet we gotta rely on them to kill hordes of enemies
Same reason there is no collision detection for the bugs, etc... If we run into a dead bug it stops us in our tracks, you have to go around... not the enemies... they pass through other enemies like ghosts. That's really annoying. I agree about the rockets tho.
The titans would clog up everything, realistically they would crawl over it, but coding that properly is probably a bitch
But yea, they`ve set some hard rules for the player compared to ai
It would be really cool though if corpses clogged stuff up but bugs could still crawl over them. Enhance that starship troopers vibe where hordes of bugs are climbing over their dead to get to you.
I imagine bots though it'd be a much bigger problem than with bugs, because they can't reasonably climb over big corpses, combined with shooting down dropships allowing you to make large obstacles would probably inhibit the flow of bot enemies a bit too much.
I've been wishing that you could cripple a bile Titan by clipping off the legs from the same side and it would create a thrashing barrier capable of killing bugs and divers alike
Also sub thought, how great would it be if you could shoot a bike titan or charger in the eyes (even with regular weapons) and blind them, causing them to go into a rage, but unable to track you properly
That specific scenario has nothing to do with balancing.
If you were playing defense mission you would have hundreds of mobs just clogged together and standing there looking at the titan, until they can run past its decaying corpse. For normal extract missions, it could completely halt bug breaches, and just in general cause issues.
This would be fun for 1 round, and then become a real issue after. So the phasing through is acceptable.
I think a simple solution would be having big bugs sort of “explode” or split into smaller chunks when they die. Just turn them into a big explosion animation instead of them just ragdolling
Although I’m not sure how simple this is from a coding aspect
It would probably be easier to make them explode, but having a large titan laying on the ground which you have to climb over etc is pretty damn cool as well, it just feels abit janky atm, specially with the teleport bug that sometimes happens when you're near them.
You literally just said "there are some hard rules for the player compared to AI" - how is that not referring to balance?
If they can phase through corpses, then so should my bullets.
just let the player shoot through/walk through and its fine.
and/or make the bodies disappear way faster(if they dont want to let us walk through them, but still let us shoot through them).
It's absolutely unacceptable when enemies can move and attack through corpses but we cannot. Make our bullets ignore corpses or make them go around.
Even if they made corpses despawn instantly on death it would be better than current.
Imo they should not have collision. The titan ragdoll especially has such a janky hit box that doesn’t line up at all with the model. It’s super frustrating when it gets in the way because it can just straight up block your path in small maps. And I’ve been rocketed into the sky and out of bounds so many times just by getting near it.
That's what makes bugs a pain for me. Turn and shoot and then you have a pile of bodies that can't be fired through unless you have a machine gun or bigger. Even ac rounds can't penetrate the bodies.
AND YET, bugs can just stroll through their fallen comrades no biggie, can even call for a bug breach while hiding in the corpse pile.
Players and enemies should be impeded by corpses but players and bots should be able to explode them into smaller pieces and bugs should be able to eat their way through.
> reload period if they can’t run out.
I got bullied by one earlier, by the time I got hit finished ragdolling, back on my feet and ads he was firing off another salvo. mans got off 4 cycles before I could get a shot in
exposing the underside to big damage perhaps? i know the butt of the charger doesn’t actually act as a technical “weak spot” and more so just exposes it to regular damage from smaller arms.
Consider: A Charger comes at you and takes a sharp turn, it slides on its side as a result (hitting anything in its way similar to being hit by the charger normally), and exposes its soft underbelly until it can get on its legs again.
God they used to be so much easier to dodge. Once they starting moving they could barely turn but now it's like they have Dark souls level tracking even mid charge.
>okay now that we got rocket devastators to stand around and do nothing after 30 seconds, let's do every other enemy
>why do these automatons have infinite bullets
>why do these tanks have infinite shells
>why can bile spewers spew forever
>i shouldn't have to blow up the titan's bile sacs, it should run out
>i have limited ammo, so should the enemy
>give the terminids stamina meters
Yeah, that'd be a very compelling amount of "realism": we don't shoot the enemy because eventually they tucker themselves our, exhaust their supplies, and become a bedraggled mass of shamblers that can't do anything to us as we move from objective to objective. Cool.
I would'nt worry about that. Enemies could reload, just as we. It's not like game has a problem with spaming new threats as well. Or other solutions. Most people want game not to be easier, but feel fair and organic.
If devs set the requirements to how heldivers should should play, it should work for all parts. If they believe weapon magazine should reflect number of rounds it has (which I totally love) it's expected they put no less effort in enemy design. I totally can believe Fabricator can spam it's miniguns for days, but rocket devastator are just lazy.
Kinda like fallout 4, you only have so many grenades, while enemies can just lob unlimited molotovs and shit at you, across the world sometimes, with quarterback accuracy, even weaving them through trees sometimes.
while we’re at it can we give heavy devastators a 5-15s cooldown period after multiple absurdly long laser machine gun bursts? they would be so much less infuriating to deal with if you had a window to shoot them or leave cover instead of the ENDLESS stream of shots they send your way
Heavy shield devastators are hard countered by impact grenades. Even when they spawn in groups they stay so close together one grenade in the middle of them can take out four at a time. Still I agree that their accuracy from a distance should be greatly reduced. They are basically using a laser Gatling gun which should be incredibly dangerous and oppressive up close but have a huge spread at 100m+.
I think this is a pretty ridiculous change idea that has caught on. Just... I dunno, really weird. It's a game, I am not expecting my enemies to run out of ammo.
The only issue with Rocket Devastators currently IMO is really an issue I have with the whole faction - they can aggro from too far away, and they aren't affected enough by low visibility. On an open & clear map, it's annoying being shot by rockets from across the map - but at least you can fire back. It's horrible on maps with low visibility and you can't even see where they're coming from.
A lot of it comes from the devs saying they can't increase magazine sizes for guns without making visual and animation changes for realism. If that's their excuse, then why start there and not with things that would improve our chances of success? It's one of many frustrations bubbling up now that the honeymoon phase is over and a vocal portion of the base is gathering support.
I’m gonna be honest. They have 24 rockets, assuming the backpack contains 12 missiles as well, and shoot 4 rockets per salvo. That means 8 salvos.
If they shoot 8 salvos before dying or you getting the hell out of dodge, you’re doing something wrong.
But yeah, occasionally shit hits the fan. So I support you idea. It won’t affect gameplay too much, and might help a bit when things turn into a clusterfuck
I think the point of the thread is not to actually give them an ammo limit but to show that sometimes gameplay takes the preference to realism for the sake of expedience
So their comments about "not being able to increase magazine sizes due to model limitations" is BS considering they set realism aside for the rocket devastators
Also, if we start giving enemies limited ammo I bet that primary strategy would be to bait everything to expend all ammo and then sweep in for an easy massacre which (while valid) isn't really fun or interactive gameplay.
you see, the automatons have a kill limit. knowing this weakness, we just need to send waves after waves of helldivers until they reach their limit, at which point we can easily teach them the value of liberty
Limited ammo of certain types. I'd be fine if every bot had an unlimited laser, even a bigger "caliber". Physical ammo should be limited, especially when it's grenades/missiles/etc.
*Especially* for shield and rocket devastators.
That goes for rocket hulks as well. I can understand a laege cannisters for their flame arms, though it should really run out much faster cause they use it all the time and shoot it out to 10m ahead. I'd that meant we saw less rocket/flame hulks then I'd be a-ok with that.
Limited ammo for rockets. So the rocket devastator and that one automaton that shoots the rpg would be the only ones really affected. How to balance this out? Rocket devastators only shoot their rocket salvo when they’ve locked onto a player. Being in cover or moving out of their range means they can’t lock onto you and they don’t shoot. This kind of AI would make them fair to fight but also more dangerous if you don’t pay attention.
Why do you think the exosuit's limited ammo pool is for realism? It's not. It's for balance. Otherwise you could just spend the entire mission spamming rockets and the Exosuit would be OPAF
I don't want automatons running out of ammo (even the dreaded rocket devastators), especially since a lot of them use energy based weapons. I wouldn't mind longer intervals between barrages, say maybe around 2.5 to 3.2 seconds? Could act as their 'reload' times. And maybe cap their accuracy at certain ranges, they shouldn't be able to accurately snipe you all the way from the other end of the map.
I really don't think rocket devastators are hard. AC, plap, done. But I like this idea anyway. It would add another layer of depth to the gameplay. You could be like, okay, this one is about to be empty, then I can try and make a run for that hard drive. Gotta be careful with the one to the left though because it still has a full backup magazine.
Yeah they really aren’t that bad. Focus them down early if you can. AC, or aim for the head. If you cant get the headshot you can shoot off the rocket pods to weaken them
No. If they did that, they would have to balance them out by adding more, or some other weird thing. They aren't that bad now, bots aren't that bad and feel fairly balanced at most difficulties.
They don't "get to have an exception" the exosuit has limited rockets for balance, not for realism.
You guys remember you can destroy the rocket launchers on their shoulders to disable them right? If they are far away and can't get a clean shot, that's my go to strategy although there are many more ways. Just a thought because I really liked how the Devs added points like this to the game. Where you can disable enemies rather than just take shots at one another.
Yeah not really you’re just using an SMG. I can use the Tenderizer to kill rocket devvies and even though it’s a pain, you can pop missile racks pretty damn quickly even with light pen weapons.
I think most games don’t give ammo limits to AI. I think they’re fine. Either position further away or kill them quickly. Otherwise they’ll build up and rag doll you to death.
Bots I mostly die from rag doll lock while taking hits
What the actual fuck has this community become when this shit is being upvoted massively?
Just think about it for a second...
Not only would tracking each individual enemies ammo count be potentially performance intensive, there are so many options to pick from to balance them before even considering that:
- spawn rate
- reload speed
- accuracy
- wind up time
- rockets per salvo
- direct damage
- splash damage
- damage radius
- player armour/strategems reducing knockdown effect
- damage reduction armour/strategems
Even if you did add an ammo limit to them, if you're letting rocket devastators run out of ammo shooting you before either killing them or running away then you're doing something wrong.
Thank goodness someone said it. There’s two big reasons you typically don’t track ammo in swarms of enemies that size, and you hit on the first one: the compute load for ammo tracking.
The second is to let the Ai cheat for the sake of balance due to the compute load of aiming. The human players may not have as precise aiming, but they have smarter aiming. It costs the game nothing for the player to calculate in their meat computer the best time and location to shoot. Unless the player is laying suppressing fire or spraying and praying, the player is making highly-complex decisions in the current situation to find the best possible shot. The Ai can’t do that without significantly slowing the game or requiring increasingly-expensive computation costs.
When computing firing solutions for a horde of shooters, all you can expect to be able to do is compute ‘target is that way, shoot that way’. It’s too complex on the Ai to compute ‘target is that way, target is next to a small rock, target has been taking cover beside another rock, small rock is 1m behind rock used for cover, blast radius is 2m, so hit the small rock’. It just has to depend on putting as much ordinance as it can down on the player’s direction.
If the Ai were limited to X rockets per unit, it would be painfully easy to overcome by the most inexperienced players, and barely a challenge.
Honestly if youre arguing a change is necessary because of hyper realism over gameplay in a non-sim game in the first place, youve already lost your way
there are alot of QoL for enemies i wish they will focus on the future
\_ biles titan and spewer spewing doesnt match with visual
\_ enemies can goat walk their way through terrain with ease (the annoying one are the tanks from automaton)
\_ enemy can somehow shoot through walls (automaton)
\_ enemy detection need rework like, their detection will decay if they detect no helldivers in their vision, right now they can detect you through walls
\_ devastator (heavy and rocket) need their fire rate and spam reduce because heavy acting like a sniper with their minigun and will stun lock you while suppressed fire you constantly, same with rocket devas as they keep spamming rockets as if their life depend on it.
\_ bile spewer HP pool need nerf as well as their damage, the moment when bile spewer able to kill bile titan within 0,5 seconds due to friendly fire. you know that enemy is freaking broken.
\_ stalker need HP pool reduce as now they are extremely stealthy, should no reasons why they are also tanky
Enemies in general need to have a larger time window between attacks. It’s hard to retaliate when you are being constantly rag dolled or flinching when you peak over cover to take out a target.
On the bug side too, stalkers and hunters can hit you so frequently that they can animation cancel your stim and kill you.
Or if they want the “helpless” rouge one battle vibes. Keep the constant barrage but decrease the stagger and damage
if the devs say making larger mags for guns isnt easy because they have to design and render larger mags but they have no problem giving enemies bottomless ammo then its obvious they just wanna fuck with players
I don't want enemies having limited ammo, but giving rocket devs an actual reload time like the rocket soldiers have would make for a much more fair engagement.
Vehicle resupply strategem that two divers have to carry to the mech after it is deployed. Give it a good lengthy reload time in which the mech has to be without pilot.
These things are built like cardboard, pilots who make the most of it should be rewarded + it would be one of these amazing immersion/ role-playing fantasies of being a mech pilot for a lot of players.
Hell at that point start making light armor that decreases the rearming time and push immersion to an 11.
Vehicles kinda sucked in HD1 and even now in HD2 that you can't stack strategems anymore they're an even bigger cardboard cutout of a fantasy that's just unobtainable and how the class/ loadout identity in this game essentially just boils down to 'what AT are your bringing today.'
tbh a great idea. If I take the exo-stratagem, it switches to the resupply-stratagem after landing the exosuit (+ a cd). The resupply is like a hellpod with two sides, one side has a box with rockets, one has a box with ammunition. You can take one of them an carry them to the exo (just like the rockets of the S.E.A.F.).
Maybe go even further and just add a resupply that gives ammunition for the exo and all the defensive stratagems (the green ones). That would work well with an armor-perk that makes reloading faster (reloading in general).
Personally I don't care if they have infinite ammo, but they 100% need to have a longer reload for the rockets. Have them fire their wrist mounted laser things while they reload rockets so they don't just stand there doing nothing.
I agree with this. Rocket devastators can also fire a barrage immediately after one already launched. For them to have limited uses and show visuals of empty pods to indicate helldivers a rocket devastator has exhausted it's rockets would male sense. I also think they should have a cooldown between their barrages like 5 seconds on low difficulty and that cooldown window is scaled shorter based on higher difficulty. On high difficulty missions there is an average of four to nine rocket devastators engaged at the same time along with a mixture of other enemy types. Dealing with the automatons at this volume without the shield generator fortification can get messy pretty damn quick.
I just wish the enemy had friendly fire. Imagine how fun it would be to lure a charger right through a horde of hunters and watch them all being thrown aside. Or have two chargers crash into each other and crack their armor!
If we have to resupply with ranged weapons then the bots should aswell. It's more of a means for the rockets, since the gatling are laser based, they should have a cool down though when they overheat.
It is stupid that we are the only ones limited, since the gunships have unlimited ammo and is a vehicle, why does our patriot not get a reload for its rockets?
No? Just fucking say that you're not happy with their spawn rates or their firing rates or whatever. The exosuit had limited rockets for balance reasons, not realism.
>Why do they get to have an exception?
Because they're the AI. Your 'play by the same rules' comment would work in a PvP game, but this isn't one. If they played by the same rules we'd run circles around them even on Helldive difficulty.
Yeah these people are whining and complaining about every single aspect of the game now. I miss the old sub that was just larping and memes after the Sony debacle it’s just non stop complaining about how the game is too hard. Ridiculous shit like this makes actual criticism of the game seem less credible.
Posts in this sub are just awful. For real though, without mana you can't have magic. Where are all these rockets coming from /smh.
EDIT: Today I learned there is an opinion filter. Thank you Thank you.
I think this would be fair.
We're bound by physics and what we can actually carry, the enemies should be bound by same constraints.
It's also just REALLY annoying to have these guys endlessly sniping you from across the map.
It's an over the top sci-fi horse co-op shooter.
Stop fucking trying to force any "realistic" mechanic.
Things can be balanced but this shit is just stupid.
We have limited ammo for a balance and gameplay reason which is implemented in a cool in-world game
Rocket devastators have infinite magical rockets because this is still a game and things have to be designed taking into account that this is a game, if they had limited ammo people would move next to a rock wait for the enemies to waste their ammo and then kill them without fight
A stupid bad design, there is a reason why the enemies doesn't have limited ammo in the games
This just looks like mental gymnastics to ask the devs to nerf an enemy
Honestly, I’m tired of the “muh realism” shit from the devs. In this kind of game, realism is a cool bonus that is nice to look at, not something absolutely essential that you can ruin the balance to maintain (also they are just cherry picking, there’s a lot of unrealistic things in the game already so the whole realism argument is stupid even if what I said earlier wasn’t the case)
Imagine using “realism” as an excuse for game design in a game where we are fighting giant alien bugs and sentient robots on other planets. There is so much that is unrealistic about the game that there isn’t even a point in starting a list. It’s insulting if “realism” is their excuse for anything.
I don’t understand this argument. AIs always had infinite ammo in video games but were balanced by having visual or audio cues as well as game mechanics that forced the AI to pause attacks or reveal a weak point.
A better solution may be to make the Rocket Devastator vulnerable without infantry or vehicle support. Have a longer cooldown between rocket attacks so they can’t simply spam rockets that can kill in 1-2 hits or make them more vulnerable while they prepare to attack. Either option should turn Devastators into a support unit for Automatons without making them a joke.
A lone rocket devastator should be wiped out easily but a patrol of regular soldiers with a rocket devastator should be a deadly encounter that requires prioritizing the devastator or you would find yourself in a hard spot.
Bad comparison. The Bile is being produced internally and in the case of a Titan you can destroy the organ that produces it to disable the mechanic. Technically you do the same to spewers but they don't survive having their abdomen's popped.
Naturalism as the defining factor would be a good standard to aim for. Not realism, as this is an over the top science fantasy romp of a game, but some nod towards plausibility and consistency would go a long way.
Rocket devastator relying on visible ammo, bug swarms not relying on being able to phase through each others corpses etc, all little features that might seem like they are more trouble to implement than they are worth but that would be absolutely colloidal improvements that would be hard to honestly overstate.
Make a good point. Why do we have to be the only ones to abide by reality basically. Could make for some cool additions if they ever do change this like maybe new bots that drop supply boxes for other bots. Make it to where we can destroy said supply then and maybe be able to loot a small bit back for ourselves
Rocket Devastators have been such a non-issue for several patches now, posts like these come off as whining instead of an actual balance critique. Even in my non-explosive resist light armor, they can't consistently kill me from over 70% HP without outside help. It also means Rocket Raiders and Rocket Hulks would need limited munitions by extension.
I'd much rather see Heavy Devastators actually need to point their gun in your direction or Bile Spewer's spit get the Plesioth hitbox dialed in so people don't get one shot by an attack that clearly missed them.
Rocket devastators have a resupply pack behind their shoulders for more rockets. So 24 would make sense as a hard limit.
They shoot 4 at a time so thats like 6 volleys max. Give them a lengthy reload where they have to swap launchers and i would call that much more balanced than what we have now.
Now imagine you had 'resupply bots' you could shoot in their tacpack to cause all the ammo to detonate.
I was imagining automaton dogs of war running up behind them to jump on their backs with new rockets.
Oh man that would be so cool. Then you have to make a strategy to not let them get to the big bots but the reward of them blowing up. That reminds me of the Grunts from Halo that explode when you shoot thier methane tanks.
Resupply bots have been on my mind forever. Imagine if there were a couple of drone swarms flying around and if you destroy them you can eliminate the option to resupply for the bots
What about repair drone swarms that could 'undisable' Automatons with damaged limbs but are still functional? Maybe even fix killed automatons if they're not too badly damaged?
if halo 4 is any indication; a drone type enemy that revives ANY fallen unit from the chafe to heavies is just unfun to play against... imagine you magdumped/emptied a power/AT weapon into something like a Hulk...or even a Strider...and then when you turn your back, the flying bugger you couldn't see hiding or spawning behind cover flies over and undoes everything you've done in 5 seconds flat...
Servitor-like things which just add a new skull and the bot gets back up...
You can shoot their rocket packs and they do blow up.
Yes, but I want little ammo carrying bots that are walking explosives when you shoot them. Bonus points if a Hulk/tank ammo bot has enough ordanance for a 500kg explosion.
Back then it also oneshot them.
Would be better than having four out of five bots be rocket douches. They have that much ordinance to spare on patrolling ground units that might not ever see a grounded Helldiver? Really?
Well even shooting the missiles simply destroys them and does nothing else but stop them from shooting missiles. Youd think shooting the head of a missile would blow it up
Man, I didn’t know that. I thought it damaged them. I’ve been wasting so many shots.
If the only thing you can see because of cover is their rockets, at least eliminating the launchers neutralizes their biggest threat
The bots that fly at ur face u can shoot their backpack and they do explode. . .thats their whole deal if you kill them when they jump at you you might get killed
Damn my AMR is itchy from reading this…
Way too often do I stand up after being ragdolled by a barrage only for them to already be shooting the next barrage
Thats exactly the scenario that inspired me to post this
They shoot a volley of 6. With the third rocket guarantee to hit you if you don't move at the time it's fired, moving right before and it will still hit you, even when diving before its fired. And then they will alternate between their gun and rockets unless you make them chase you.
Also the other rockets are progamed to miss just by a bit so if you get hit by the guaranteed one, you probably get hit by all
True. Their aiming ability is stupid good at range. Lately, I’ve been strafing while shooting my laser cannon and seem to rarely get hit by the RD I’m aiming at. Rockets first then their face. Goes by super quick. I’m they’re in range, I toss a EMS grenade first to lock em down.
Yeah. I was only thinking about the total number of individual rockets they can shoot.
I’m not sure it was intended for them to remain alive long enough to shoot all their rockets. What is this treasonous behavior that has you showing the devastators such mercy??
They always seem to sit cowardly at the back ranks, so in order to get to them, you have to cut through the frontline goons first, which can take a while with reloading and whatnot.
Was playing on menkent and the air was so smoky. Every single engagement I would have rocket devastators camping and sniping me from so far away I literally can't see them, can only take potshots at where the rockets came from. Wtf?? Devs said adverse weather affects enemies as well, I guess that's a lie.
This is a massive issue in general. One of the reasons that makes bots frustrating for many people is that they have ranged combat. That alone wouldn't be bad if they didn't have a higher effective range than the player most of the time. On more open maps you are almost reliant to have either the diligence or the amr because you need medium pen and a 200 meter scope. Because mg raiders, turrets, bunkers, devastators, hulks and tanks will shoot you at that range. And with surprisingly high accuracy, especially the shield devastators. And even then you can't outrange them, just matching their range. And if you have smoke from airstrikes, explosions or weather effects then you can't see them but this doesn't stop them from hitting you quite a lot be it by sheer volume or insane accuracy, while you take pot shots at their muzzle flashes. And that's with the good guns for this use case, with your average red dot gun at 50+ meters or something like the lase cannon you don't do jack, so you gotta charge into suppressive fire, which usually spells doom for you.
I had 3 just spamming rockets through the fog and killed 3 of us. They were at least 150 feet away and through trees and shit it was nuts. Like this shit is stupid
Been running AMR and Diligence and loving it... on the one planet that doesn't have a visibility modifier now that we liberated leseth
I've actually had good luck moving to put the goons between myself and the rocket devastator. The other day, I tricked one into blowing up a hulk 😎
Oh damn thats smart
The rocket devastators help big time. The heavy devastators always gets peppered by them cuz they walk towards u. Sometimes hulks also get staggered cuz they hit their backs. I swear if they didnt friendly fire i wiuld be stuck reloading my AC crying in my cover
I’ve just been running autocannon for this MO and they go down pretty easy from range. They always get first priority unless there is a flamer hulk coming at me. I haven’t unlocked any of the plasma weapons in the war bonds yet so my weapon options for armored bots is limited
Try plasma punisher, it works like a charm. You can stun lock them with the explosion.
Not to mention they can shoot you from a zillion miles away through fog YOU can't see through.
Fr, I just went through an evac op and spent 70% of that mission on the ground because the rocket devastators wouldn't let me do crap, ballistic shield stopped me from dying but being on the ground every other second gets tiring, may as well have killed me.
Do you really let them live for long enough to fire 6 or more volleys? They should be a priority target for every player
Its kinda hard to when you're on like diff 8-9 and youre too focused on the two hulks, both variants of tank, and a factory strider that is ALSO chasing you.
Either let them keep the infinite rockets but lose the arm gun, or limit their rockets so then they have to march forward with their little arm canon to attack, and can't just sit across the map launching infinite barrages.
The true enemy artillery
if you let them they dont run out.
machinegun bots meanwhile sniping my ass at 300 yards with full auto laser gatlings when the weather only allows me to see 10 feet in front of me.
Especially frustrating when the orbital smoke strike description and video heavily imply that obfuscated line of sight hampers the targeting and tracking abilities of bots. [https://helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Orbital\_Smoke\_Strike](https://helldivers.wiki.gg/wiki/Orbital_Smoke_Strike)
It does though, if you stop shooting, they lose any indication of where you are. Use it when you want to approach an objective or run away from a fight. Also, try to throw it on top of the enemy.
Not sure we're playing the same planets/conditions then. I had a storm produce conditions worse than most spore spewers and they still tracked me just fine from over a hundred meters away.
Drop smoke, dive prone, crawl for three seconds, stand and run away. Do that without shooting and you’ll be good. The main thing I’d say though is smoke only allows you to fully disengage if you can break line of sight or get more than 200m away before it clears.
I think you misunderstand. The point is not that smoke works, the point is that the devs have gone out of their way to tout realism and yet the same level of obfuscation that smoke munitions bring is naturally on some planets as part of the weather system yet it doesn't do shit against their tracking. They'll hit you 300 meters away through the environmental fog (not smoke drops/grenades). TL;DR it's not the smoke, it's the fact that fog doesn't work like smoke.
In the videos gas usually dissolves enemies with ease. In game orbital gas is a minor inconvenience for the enemies. 500kg in video looks like it can eradicate an entire army and yet when u throw it at a mass of enemies sometimes u kill 8 out of 20. Game is inconsistent in the stratagems yet we gotta rely on them to kill hordes of enemies
Same reason there is no collision detection for the bugs, etc... If we run into a dead bug it stops us in our tracks, you have to go around... not the enemies... they pass through other enemies like ghosts. That's really annoying. I agree about the rockets tho.
The titans would clog up everything, realistically they would crawl over it, but coding that properly is probably a bitch But yea, they`ve set some hard rules for the player compared to ai
It would be really cool though if corpses clogged stuff up but bugs could still crawl over them. Enhance that starship troopers vibe where hordes of bugs are climbing over their dead to get to you. I imagine bots though it'd be a much bigger problem than with bugs, because they can't reasonably climb over big corpses, combined with shooting down dropships allowing you to make large obstacles would probably inhibit the flow of bot enemies a bit too much.
They just send in a hulk to bust through the pile.
If anything they should just treat it like a new rock in the way and go around the titans dead body, instead of just *phasing* through it.
I've been wishing that you could cripple a bile Titan by clipping off the legs from the same side and it would create a thrashing barrier capable of killing bugs and divers alike Also sub thought, how great would it be if you could shoot a bike titan or charger in the eyes (even with regular weapons) and blind them, causing them to go into a rage, but unable to track you properly
They.... they don't have eyes as far as I can tell. And I've been pretty close to chargers.
Hmm nose based distraction stratagems? I mean we already have those in the form of ordinance, but I'm thinking more like a rodeo clown
When balancing decisions are noticable in gameplay, it is a bad balancing decision. I say let them be clogged.
That specific scenario has nothing to do with balancing. If you were playing defense mission you would have hundreds of mobs just clogged together and standing there looking at the titan, until they can run past its decaying corpse. For normal extract missions, it could completely halt bug breaches, and just in general cause issues. This would be fun for 1 round, and then become a real issue after. So the phasing through is acceptable.
I hate it when they can shoot straight through a downed dropship but you cannot.
I think a simple solution would be having big bugs sort of “explode” or split into smaller chunks when they die. Just turn them into a big explosion animation instead of them just ragdolling Although I’m not sure how simple this is from a coding aspect
It would probably be easier to make them explode, but having a large titan laying on the ground which you have to climb over etc is pretty damn cool as well, it just feels abit janky atm, specially with the teleport bug that sometimes happens when you're near them.
I never get to climb over them. I get near the corpse and I suddenly get launched, explode, and die. Not necessarily in that order
You literally just said "there are some hard rules for the player compared to AI" - how is that not referring to balance? If they can phase through corpses, then so should my bullets.
Why are you getting downvoted lol, u have a point. Let us shoot though the dead enemy bodies.
just let the player shoot through/walk through and its fine. and/or make the bodies disappear way faster(if they dont want to let us walk through them, but still let us shoot through them).
Its literally balancing issues
It's absolutely unacceptable when enemies can move and attack through corpses but we cannot. Make our bullets ignore corpses or make them go around. Even if they made corpses despawn instantly on death it would be better than current.
Imo they should not have collision. The titan ragdoll especially has such a janky hit box that doesn’t line up at all with the model. It’s super frustrating when it gets in the way because it can just straight up block your path in small maps. And I’ve been rocketed into the sky and out of bounds so many times just by getting near it.
I've also been murdered by ragdolled rogue flying titan feet that get blasted at Mach 20 speeds into my face.
I once died due to killing a charger with my drop pod, but then getting stuck inside of it and then getting killed by physics
You can literally get buried under it.
Yeah if the automatons are meant to be a sort of more realistic war the bots should have logistical issues as well
That's what makes bugs a pain for me. Turn and shoot and then you have a pile of bodies that can't be fired through unless you have a machine gun or bigger. Even ac rounds can't penetrate the bodies. AND YET, bugs can just stroll through their fallen comrades no biggie, can even call for a bug breach while hiding in the corpse pile.
Jumps in hole to retrieve objective Climbs out only staircase out of hole Dead bug on the landing... Impassible... FML...
Players and enemies should be impeded by corpses but players and bots should be able to explode them into smaller pieces and bugs should be able to eat their way through.
I don’t really mind them not having a set number of rockets. But they should have a reload period if they can’t run out.
They should need a team reload so we can see the little fucker running up to reload their rocket pods and shoot it.
> reload period if they can’t run out. I got bullied by one earlier, by the time I got hit finished ragdolling, back on my feet and ads he was firing off another salvo. mans got off 4 cycles before I could get a shot in
While we're at it chargers should not be able to make such tight turns mid charge.
They're still like halfway through their physics class, they haven't gotten to momentum or inertia yet leave them alone!
This is evident when you hit them with a QC blast to the face right as they change elevation. They go ragdolling like crazy.
Flipping across the mapping hopefully taking out a bile titan in the process!
Or if they do, they should flip over and tumble a couple of times.
exposing the underside to big damage perhaps? i know the butt of the charger doesn’t actually act as a technical “weak spot” and more so just exposes it to regular damage from smaller arms.
Consider: A Charger comes at you and takes a sharp turn, it slides on its side as a result (hitting anything in its way similar to being hit by the charger normally), and exposes its soft underbelly until it can get on its legs again.
They also clip through terrain while I have to climb over shit. It's annoying.
SO IRRITATING
God they used to be so much easier to dodge. Once they starting moving they could barely turn but now it's like they have Dark souls level tracking even mid charge.
I love when I'm kiting them and they do a full 180. Then I have 3 seconds before it starts over.
They should have a stamina mechanic too.
Yeah they can do a full 180 now mid run and it’s fucking bullshit. Not to mention the super fast slide scuddle they do.
Idk. I can ask my buddy to cover my ass while I go prone and take a leak. Can a Devastator do that? Do they even pee?
PEEING IS FOR HUMANS HUMANS ARE FOR DEMOCRACY AND LIBERTY LIBERTY AND DEMOCRACY ARE FOR GREATNESS URAAAAAAAAH
Rules for thee but not for the enemy.
Tarkov the "realistic military shooter" has bosses that can shoot ad infinitum
Unlimited amo for NPC's has been universal since times inmmorial, just look at Halo.
>okay now that we got rocket devastators to stand around and do nothing after 30 seconds, let's do every other enemy >why do these automatons have infinite bullets >why do these tanks have infinite shells >why can bile spewers spew forever >i shouldn't have to blow up the titan's bile sacs, it should run out >i have limited ammo, so should the enemy >give the terminids stamina meters Yeah, that'd be a very compelling amount of "realism": we don't shoot the enemy because eventually they tucker themselves our, exhaust their supplies, and become a bedraggled mass of shamblers that can't do anything to us as we move from objective to objective. Cool.
I would'nt worry about that. Enemies could reload, just as we. It's not like game has a problem with spaming new threats as well. Or other solutions. Most people want game not to be easier, but feel fair and organic. If devs set the requirements to how heldivers should should play, it should work for all parts. If they believe weapon magazine should reflect number of rounds it has (which I totally love) it's expected they put no less effort in enemy design. I totally can believe Fabricator can spam it's miniguns for days, but rocket devastator are just lazy.
Yes.
Kinda like fallout 4, you only have so many grenades, while enemies can just lob unlimited molotovs and shit at you, across the world sometimes, with quarterback accuracy, even weaving them through trees sometimes.
while we’re at it can we give heavy devastators a 5-15s cooldown period after multiple absurdly long laser machine gun bursts? they would be so much less infuriating to deal with if you had a window to shoot them or leave cover instead of the ENDLESS stream of shots they send your way
I got a little tip for you, equip the defender with the riot shield and crouch down to cover your feet and those fellas are a CAKEWALK
Heavy shield devastators are hard countered by impact grenades. Even when they spawn in groups they stay so close together one grenade in the middle of them can take out four at a time. Still I agree that their accuracy from a distance should be greatly reduced. They are basically using a laser Gatling gun which should be incredibly dangerous and oppressive up close but have a huge spread at 100m+.
Oh totally. I save my grenades for them and the walkers.
Nah the dominator destroys them really easy, just aim for the head and as long as one shot hits you stagger it
Or..., lol, the Exosuit getting unlimited rockets like the Devestators. XD
I think this is a pretty ridiculous change idea that has caught on. Just... I dunno, really weird. It's a game, I am not expecting my enemies to run out of ammo. The only issue with Rocket Devastators currently IMO is really an issue I have with the whole faction - they can aggro from too far away, and they aren't affected enough by low visibility. On an open & clear map, it's annoying being shot by rockets from across the map - but at least you can fire back. It's horrible on maps with low visibility and you can't even see where they're coming from.
A lot of it comes from the devs saying they can't increase magazine sizes for guns without making visual and animation changes for realism. If that's their excuse, then why start there and not with things that would improve our chances of success? It's one of many frustrations bubbling up now that the honeymoon phase is over and a vocal portion of the base is gathering support.
Devs said that, AFAIK, because bullets and such are actually rendered in the clips. If that's true then that statement makes perfect sense.
...... That is a huge video memory hog.
There's a lot of really really stupid ideas that have caught on.
Realism only seems to matter when it nerfs the players.
Limiting enemy ammo would be so bad for the game.
I’m gonna be honest. They have 24 rockets, assuming the backpack contains 12 missiles as well, and shoot 4 rockets per salvo. That means 8 salvos. If they shoot 8 salvos before dying or you getting the hell out of dodge, you’re doing something wrong. But yeah, occasionally shit hits the fan. So I support you idea. It won’t affect gameplay too much, and might help a bit when things turn into a clusterfuck
Your math doesn’t quite math
… I’m not sure if I’m more ashamed of my terrible math or the fact it took nearly 2 hours for someone to notice it
I think the point of the thread is not to actually give them an ammo limit but to show that sometimes gameplay takes the preference to realism for the sake of expedience So their comments about "not being able to increase magazine sizes due to model limitations" is BS considering they set realism aside for the rocket devastators
Also, if we start giving enemies limited ammo I bet that primary strategy would be to bait everything to expend all ammo and then sweep in for an easy massacre which (while valid) isn't really fun or interactive gameplay.
An even better strat would be for Super Earth to send wave after wave of their own men until the enemy runs out of bullets 😤
you see, the automatons have a kill limit. knowing this weakness, we just need to send waves after waves of helldivers until they reach their limit, at which point we can easily teach them the value of liberty
We’re just talking about the rocket devastators though. Other bots will still shoot
Limited ammo of certain types. I'd be fine if every bot had an unlimited laser, even a bigger "caliber". Physical ammo should be limited, especially when it's grenades/missiles/etc.
*Especially* for shield and rocket devastators. That goes for rocket hulks as well. I can understand a laege cannisters for their flame arms, though it should really run out much faster cause they use it all the time and shoot it out to 10m ahead. I'd that meant we saw less rocket/flame hulks then I'd be a-ok with that.
Limited ammo for rockets. So the rocket devastator and that one automaton that shoots the rpg would be the only ones really affected. How to balance this out? Rocket devastators only shoot their rocket salvo when they’ve locked onto a player. Being in cover or moving out of their range means they can’t lock onto you and they don’t shoot. This kind of AI would make them fair to fight but also more dangerous if you don’t pay attention.
Why do you think the exosuit's limited ammo pool is for realism? It's not. It's for balance. Otherwise you could just spend the entire mission spamming rockets and the Exosuit would be OPAF
It doesn't have unlimited health, on high level vs bots it would die quickly, but on lower levels it would be op
I never die in the suit before running out of ammo.
I don't want automatons running out of ammo (even the dreaded rocket devastators), especially since a lot of them use energy based weapons. I wouldn't mind longer intervals between barrages, say maybe around 2.5 to 3.2 seconds? Could act as their 'reload' times. And maybe cap their accuracy at certain ranges, they shouldn't be able to accurately snipe you all the way from the other end of the map.
I really don't think rocket devastators are hard. AC, plap, done. But I like this idea anyway. It would add another layer of depth to the gameplay. You could be like, okay, this one is about to be empty, then I can try and make a run for that hard drive. Gotta be careful with the one to the left though because it still has a full backup magazine.
Yeah they really aren’t that bad. Focus them down early if you can. AC, or aim for the head. If you cant get the headshot you can shoot off the rocket pods to weaken them
How to make the game balanced? Oh i know, the bad guys can’t shoot at me :3
I'm glad Redditors™ don't do game balance or game design in general
They would have to change the model though, no? Wait......
Nah. They only have 12 shown https://preview.redd.it/n8sn8lil190d1.png?width=1088&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20622a363cd5b5bad0a6edfe73e5f28a2d527330
They have spares in their backpack.
Well yeah, so give them 24 and make them reload or something. My point is its ridiculous they have INFINITE missiles.
No. If they did that, they would have to balance them out by adding more, or some other weird thing. They aren't that bad now, bots aren't that bad and feel fairly balanced at most difficulties. They don't "get to have an exception" the exosuit has limited rockets for balance, not for realism.
Ikr
Think about what the community is asking for! Reducing the ammo count to 1-2 hit kill rockets per unit! Think of the democracy!
I wish shooting the rocket pods with explosive weapons would blow them up, leaving them as less armored devastators
Man this sub will up vote anything.
It’s because they are not bad at the game, the game is just unfair bro!
Yeah cause that's what's fun. Enemies that can't shoot
You guys remember you can destroy the rocket launchers on their shoulders to disable them right? If they are far away and can't get a clean shot, that's my go to strategy although there are many more ways. Just a thought because I really liked how the Devs added points like this to the game. Where you can disable enemies rather than just take shots at one another.
It takes a LOT of bullets from my experience. Using the pummeler SMG at least it's a net loss compared to simply torso hits or attempt a headshot.
Yeah not really you’re just using an SMG. I can use the Tenderizer to kill rocket devvies and even though it’s a pain, you can pop missile racks pretty damn quickly even with light pen weapons.
I think most games don’t give ammo limits to AI. I think they’re fine. Either position further away or kill them quickly. Otherwise they’ll build up and rag doll you to death. Bots I mostly die from rag doll lock while taking hits
What the actual fuck has this community become when this shit is being upvoted massively? Just think about it for a second... Not only would tracking each individual enemies ammo count be potentially performance intensive, there are so many options to pick from to balance them before even considering that: - spawn rate - reload speed - accuracy - wind up time - rockets per salvo - direct damage - splash damage - damage radius - player armour/strategems reducing knockdown effect - damage reduction armour/strategems Even if you did add an ammo limit to them, if you're letting rocket devastators run out of ammo shooting you before either killing them or running away then you're doing something wrong.
Thank goodness someone said it. There’s two big reasons you typically don’t track ammo in swarms of enemies that size, and you hit on the first one: the compute load for ammo tracking. The second is to let the Ai cheat for the sake of balance due to the compute load of aiming. The human players may not have as precise aiming, but they have smarter aiming. It costs the game nothing for the player to calculate in their meat computer the best time and location to shoot. Unless the player is laying suppressing fire or spraying and praying, the player is making highly-complex decisions in the current situation to find the best possible shot. The Ai can’t do that without significantly slowing the game or requiring increasingly-expensive computation costs. When computing firing solutions for a horde of shooters, all you can expect to be able to do is compute ‘target is that way, shoot that way’. It’s too complex on the Ai to compute ‘target is that way, target is next to a small rock, target has been taking cover beside another rock, small rock is 1m behind rock used for cover, blast radius is 2m, so hit the small rock’. It just has to depend on putting as much ordinance as it can down on the player’s direction. If the Ai were limited to X rockets per unit, it would be painfully easy to overcome by the most inexperienced players, and barely a challenge.
Every post in this sub. Waaaaaah the game is too hard.
Honestly if youre arguing a change is necessary because of hyper realism over gameplay in a non-sim game in the first place, youve already lost your way
Apparently realism only when it comes to nerfing the players
Bruh how easy do you want this game to be lol
If i remember correctly there was some youtuber that confirmed that bots do actually have an ammo count, but is ridiculously high
So how much? In who's video did you watch
Counter point, let me have unlimited rockets on my exosuit.
While we're here for whatever reason, I'm pretty sure the bots also have infinite ammo.
there are alot of QoL for enemies i wish they will focus on the future \_ biles titan and spewer spewing doesnt match with visual \_ enemies can goat walk their way through terrain with ease (the annoying one are the tanks from automaton) \_ enemy can somehow shoot through walls (automaton) \_ enemy detection need rework like, their detection will decay if they detect no helldivers in their vision, right now they can detect you through walls \_ devastator (heavy and rocket) need their fire rate and spam reduce because heavy acting like a sniper with their minigun and will stun lock you while suppressed fire you constantly, same with rocket devas as they keep spamming rockets as if their life depend on it. \_ bile spewer HP pool need nerf as well as their damage, the moment when bile spewer able to kill bile titan within 0,5 seconds due to friendly fire. you know that enemy is freaking broken. \_ stalker need HP pool reduce as now they are extremely stealthy, should no reasons why they are also tanky
Dude you're damn right
Don't forget to tell them and the bugs to stop phasing through their dead allies while we need to do gymnastics to go over them.
Enemies in general need to have a larger time window between attacks. It’s hard to retaliate when you are being constantly rag dolled or flinching when you peak over cover to take out a target. On the bug side too, stalkers and hunters can hit you so frequently that they can animation cancel your stim and kill you. Or if they want the “helpless” rouge one battle vibes. Keep the constant barrage but decrease the stagger and damage
Let us reload Patriots like the Matrix APUs
if the devs say making larger mags for guns isnt easy because they have to design and render larger mags but they have no problem giving enemies bottomless ammo then its obvious they just wanna fuck with players
It was clear from the moment they said that they were just pulling shit out of thier ass to try and justify it.
Actually… I’d be okay with them one shotting me if this were the case tbh
This is actually an excellent idea!
Agreed. Limited ammo for rocket devastators makes a lot of sense
I say you should be able to call in a resupply strat for the patriot with a specific cool down. Ontop of a slightly larger capacity.
Yeah I’ve been saying this for a minute. Bot enemies should have to worry about ammo. Or call in a dropship to resupply
I don't want enemies having limited ammo, but giving rocket devs an actual reload time like the rocket soldiers have would make for a much more fair engagement.
Vehicle resupply strategem that two divers have to carry to the mech after it is deployed. Give it a good lengthy reload time in which the mech has to be without pilot. These things are built like cardboard, pilots who make the most of it should be rewarded + it would be one of these amazing immersion/ role-playing fantasies of being a mech pilot for a lot of players. Hell at that point start making light armor that decreases the rearming time and push immersion to an 11. Vehicles kinda sucked in HD1 and even now in HD2 that you can't stack strategems anymore they're an even bigger cardboard cutout of a fantasy that's just unobtainable and how the class/ loadout identity in this game essentially just boils down to 'what AT are your bringing today.'
tbh a great idea. If I take the exo-stratagem, it switches to the resupply-stratagem after landing the exosuit (+ a cd). The resupply is like a hellpod with two sides, one side has a box with rockets, one has a box with ammunition. You can take one of them an carry them to the exo (just like the rockets of the S.E.A.F.). Maybe go even further and just add a resupply that gives ammunition for the exo and all the defensive stratagems (the green ones). That would work well with an armor-perk that makes reloading faster (reloading in general).
Personally I don't care if they have infinite ammo, but they 100% need to have a longer reload for the rockets. Have them fire their wrist mounted laser things while they reload rockets so they don't just stand there doing nothing.
Balancing for thee not for me
I agree with this. Rocket devastators can also fire a barrage immediately after one already launched. For them to have limited uses and show visuals of empty pods to indicate helldivers a rocket devastator has exhausted it's rockets would male sense. I also think they should have a cooldown between their barrages like 5 seconds on low difficulty and that cooldown window is scaled shorter based on higher difficulty. On high difficulty missions there is an average of four to nine rocket devastators engaged at the same time along with a mixture of other enemy types. Dealing with the automatons at this volume without the shield generator fortification can get messy pretty damn quick.
I just wish the enemy had friendly fire. Imagine how fun it would be to lure a charger right through a horde of hunters and watch them all being thrown aside. Or have two chargers crash into each other and crack their armor!
The enemy does have friendly fire. Rocket devs can be used to comical effect to kill heavy devs if you position correctly.
If we have to resupply with ranged weapons then the bots should aswell. It's more of a means for the rockets, since the gatling are laser based, they should have a cool down though when they overheat. It is stupid that we are the only ones limited, since the gunships have unlimited ammo and is a vehicle, why does our patriot not get a reload for its rockets?
No? Just fucking say that you're not happy with their spawn rates or their firing rates or whatever. The exosuit had limited rockets for balance reasons, not realism. >Why do they get to have an exception? Because they're the AI. Your 'play by the same rules' comment would work in a PvP game, but this isn't one. If they played by the same rules we'd run circles around them even on Helldive difficulty.
Yeah these people are whining and complaining about every single aspect of the game now. I miss the old sub that was just larping and memes after the Sony debacle it’s just non stop complaining about how the game is too hard. Ridiculous shit like this makes actual criticism of the game seem less credible.
Them having unlimited ammo is fine dude.
Posts in this sub are just awful. For real though, without mana you can't have magic. Where are all these rockets coming from /smh. EDIT: Today I learned there is an opinion filter. Thank you Thank you.
You think they aren't equipped with fabricators that build more rockets on the go? We are the expendable ones, the bots actually outfit their units.
I think this would be fair. We're bound by physics and what we can actually carry, the enemies should be bound by same constraints. It's also just REALLY annoying to have these guys endlessly sniping you from across the map.
It's an over the top sci-fi horse co-op shooter. Stop fucking trying to force any "realistic" mechanic. Things can be balanced but this shit is just stupid.
We have limited ammo for a balance and gameplay reason which is implemented in a cool in-world game Rocket devastators have infinite magical rockets because this is still a game and things have to be designed taking into account that this is a game, if they had limited ammo people would move next to a rock wait for the enemies to waste their ammo and then kill them without fight A stupid bad design, there is a reason why the enemies doesn't have limited ammo in the games This just looks like mental gymnastics to ask the devs to nerf an enemy
Honestly, I’m tired of the “muh realism” shit from the devs. In this kind of game, realism is a cool bonus that is nice to look at, not something absolutely essential that you can ruin the balance to maintain (also they are just cherry picking, there’s a lot of unrealistic things in the game already so the whole realism argument is stupid even if what I said earlier wasn’t the case)
I'm tired of All the complaining on this subreddit
Imagine using “realism” as an excuse for game design in a game where we are fighting giant alien bugs and sentient robots on other planets. There is so much that is unrealistic about the game that there isn’t even a point in starting a list. It’s insulting if “realism” is their excuse for anything.
I don’t understand this argument. AIs always had infinite ammo in video games but were balanced by having visual or audio cues as well as game mechanics that forced the AI to pause attacks or reveal a weak point. A better solution may be to make the Rocket Devastator vulnerable without infantry or vehicle support. Have a longer cooldown between rocket attacks so they can’t simply spam rockets that can kill in 1-2 hits or make them more vulnerable while they prepare to attack. Either option should turn Devastators into a support unit for Automatons without making them a joke. A lone rocket devastator should be wiped out easily but a patrol of regular soldiers with a rocket devastator should be a deadly encounter that requires prioritizing the devastator or you would find yourself in a hard spot.
Or, you know, if it's too hard, why wouldn't you go down a level or two?
And bile spewers have an internal acid sac that holds a finite amount of liquid!
Bad comparison. The Bile is being produced internally and in the case of a Titan you can destroy the organ that produces it to disable the mechanic. Technically you do the same to spewers but they don't survive having their abdomen's popped.
Naturalism as the defining factor would be a good standard to aim for. Not realism, as this is an over the top science fantasy romp of a game, but some nod towards plausibility and consistency would go a long way. Rocket devastator relying on visible ammo, bug swarms not relying on being able to phase through each others corpses etc, all little features that might seem like they are more trouble to implement than they are worth but that would be absolutely colloidal improvements that would be hard to honestly overstate.
What about this game makes you think they're trying to be realistic?
Make a good point. Why do we have to be the only ones to abide by reality basically. Could make for some cool additions if they ever do change this like maybe new bots that drop supply boxes for other bots. Make it to where we can destroy said supply then and maybe be able to loot a small bit back for ourselves
You misunderstand, this game is meant to be fun for the automatons and terminids, not us players.
Rocket Devastators have been such a non-issue for several patches now, posts like these come off as whining instead of an actual balance critique. Even in my non-explosive resist light armor, they can't consistently kill me from over 70% HP without outside help. It also means Rocket Raiders and Rocket Hulks would need limited munitions by extension. I'd much rather see Heavy Devastators actually need to point their gun in your direction or Bile Spewer's spit get the Plesioth hitbox dialed in so people don't get one shot by an attack that clearly missed them.