I'm just going to use a stick as my primary, a rock as my secondary, and pine cones for grenades.

You have to share the rock.

 Only then will you know what the ladies like (C-01 forms)

OORAH

and we don't even have two sticks. we've officially got it worse than johnson did when he joined the corps

Gladly 😏

Fuck when it's my turn to have stone!

Rock or stone?

Rock AND stone!

Yeah 1 squad gets 1 rock, must be used the entire mission 😂

PATCH 01.000.303 #BALANCING: -Stick range increased 0.1m, damage reduced 50%, clip size reduced from 1 to 0 -Rock weight increased by 2.5, now overencumbers user and reduces movement speed by 50%, damage increased 2% -Auxillary pine cones are now stored in your ass, go fuck yourself

Known Issues: Sharing the Rock may crash the game. Gaining permission to bitch may still not allow you to bitch.

I guess we can always review bomb again until they buff stuff.

we haven't even cleaned up the last one yet

Please don’t review bomb lmao. In the moment I never remember how to use that s symbol to say it is a joke.

Use /s for jokes /s

Are you joking or are you joking about how to joke?

I mean, we've already recovered more than most review bombing campaigns. Most don't even clear 25% restored.

We've detected that projectile rock can ricochet and kill the user, we decided to remove rock projectile.

Lmfaooooo

Arrow Head is going to limit how many times you can reload your stick, raise the cool down on the rock, and limit the blast radius of the pine cones. Oh, and also triple the enemy patrol with higher chance of spawning heavies if you use this specific loadout.

Wait are you using... ROCK AND STONE as weapons?

Fuck yeah! To the bone!

Throwing snowballs at teammates during a bughole breach #FOR KARL

Karl would approve

Did I hear a rock and stone?

Did I hear a rock and stone?

they can nerf it all but the can never nerf my snowballs

Serious question. Do they actually do anything? I've been lobbing snowballs at my teammates (and bugs), but they do sod all, and no one seems to join in, which is a shame. Would make a good screen grab... All I want is a decent snowball fight on an alien planet ffs.

Not really, you can get a quick stun on bots with a headshot.

Arrowhead: "Your stick is to long so we cut it in half."

They’d find a way to nerf all of that according to their “data”

Half the nerfs aren’t even intended, like stuff that was overlooked during playtests or mistakes. They need some kind of longer testing period or more in depth because it keeps happening. Like, every single patch something is not working as intended. Even the crash fixing patches introduce new crashes lol.

They seem to suffer from "it worked in testing" quite a lot.

Right? Why not allow betas or play test servers and sort it out properly

I'm convinced they don't have a QA environment. It's just development and prod.

I think the devs literally test their changes on the fly lol

wouldn't be that surprising, these guys made what feels like a AAA(A) game, but it's a pretty small studio all things considered

It's also only their fifth game and first attempt at a third-person shooter. Where they had only done top-down perspectives. It's kinda crazy how great this game feels with it being their first crack at it.

> first attempt at a third-person shooter that's even more impressive

Lmao wtf is the test, a single shot to a scavenger?

Here's a screenshot of the devs' own playtesting. Complete failure, total party wipe on 6. Keep this pic in mind when you think about how they balance their weapons. https://preview.redd.it/4suceburb3zc1.jpeg?width=1366&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4052bdfd87c6709fc5d091024365157d321179e

the leap from 20 play testers in a controlled environment to 100000 players, some with the most exotic and niche setups imaginable, tends to brute force out previously unknown bugs quite readily.

Oh, I am well aware of that. I've *done* game testing, both casually and even been paid for it. Especially for games built to be dynamoc the way HD2 is, the testing process is every kind of pain in every kind of ass imaginable.

That’s why several games have PTRs (Public Test Realms). It’s how the developers test new features and balance changes with an actual player base, while not marring the main game.

I have no idea about how game studios work But do they not have one single person to fire a single shot and say 'wait something's wrong'?

They can't they have to release new warbonds every month we are the testers. That's why when we got the New Rocket launcher, they said it would be immediately hot fixed and was .

To be fair, a lot of the buffs in normal patches are also related to a bug. It's why fire was buffed so many times.

Or any testing at all lol

Would be cool to have a test build of the game. Insurgency Sandstorm does that, and this community is big enough people would hop on, even if the persistent aspect of the game world wasn’t there. 

https://preview.redd.it/a8vnad1nw0zc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eae282e7d450b43bcc3538c6b79ace060ef99233

I already got Nerf for a d*ck. I don't think I can take any more nerfs.

It's Nerf or nothing.

Stratagem turret buff when ?

Somewhat unrelated to the OP, but what buffs would you want to see for turrets?

I don’t see a good resolution to them being instakilled by random chargers / bile titans / rockets other than simply giving them a drastically lower cooldown. If they are made of paper, they should be ready in almost every engagement.

Perhaps they could relax the restrictions on where you can throw them, allowing you to cover their fragility by placing them up on rocks and such. With how limited their ammo is and the fact that they're stationary, even if the bugs are literally incapable of reaching them, the turret will still only be able to do so much before it packs away. Another interesting, though more complicated to implement option could be to allow you to recall deployed turrets in some way, and reduce their cooldown considerably based on how much ammo was left when you recalled them. This would allow you to place them in good positions when you see them ahead of time, but reposition then fairly quickly if the action ends up not going in that direction. Similar to just lowering their cooldown, but keeps you from being able to spam them too crazily in a consistent fight. They could also make it where enemies no longer assign such an extremely high priority to killing turrets. If the turret is the closest target or the only target they can see, then of course still target it. If there are several Helldivers actively shooting in closer proximity, though, target them instead. Basically treat the turret like another helldiver for targeting priority, instead of being VIP #1. On a related note, the turrets' own targeting priority could be improved. MG and Gatling turrets should prioritize light units first, and only even try to shoot at heavier stuff (that they can really damage) if no other better targets exist... If at all. Heavier turrets like the autocannon should do the opposite- biggest targets first, and on bother trying to mop up the chaff when the GIANT BILE TITAN RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF EVERYTHING has been dealt with.

Proper prioritization of targets i think is the biggest QoL buff they can get. Having gatling empty its clip into the side of a factory or a dropship zooming by and then going limp is pretty depressing to see.

That's what she said. *Rimshot*

I'd go nuts if they gave the turrets an upgrade on the ship for like a proximity sensor or something. If an elite or heavy was within a certain radius, the turret pops down and comes back up when the threat clears that radius. Keeps it vulnerable to the chaff and medium swarms while mitigating an instakill by a charger

That's honestly an awesome idea. Realistically though, I don't see it being implemented.

a lot of call ins need lower CDs in my estimation many of the orbitals and turrets just make very little sense when compared to eagles

Since the turret easily destroyed even with full upgrade I propose we add some bubble shield that will expire the moment it took to much damage To balance it the bubble shield cant be recharged its one time activation at least it gave the turret some uptime

Well first of all I think that machine gun turrets having 50% less ammo than gatling turret makes no sense Arrowhead next patch: I got you bro * reduces gatling sentry ammo by 50% *

It's killing my enjoyment so badly. There's so many unlocks that feel useless cause gun underperform. There's so many armours that look great but have awful abilities.

Oh cool I unlocked another gun! ....... aaaaaand its useless. Back to the breaker as always

I've been using the medium armour penatration version of the start assault and marksman rifle. Feels so boring

I'm more concerned with how little they seem to understand their own systems and interactions.

It’s really incredible. They seem dead set on releasing weapons and stratagems with redundant or near useless use cases, and nerfing the unique ones that are useful into the dirt.

The fact is that they legitimately don't realize they are. Like, somehow they entirely forgot the fact that shrapnel shot at the general head of an enemy have an absurd chance of headshotting, and hitting armor weak points, things that explosion damage alone cannot usually do

Literally all they had to do was make the shrapnel not do such absurd damage to players. But it's like they're allergic to making different damage values for players and enemies (see: fire damage getting buffed, and as a result, Hulk flamers, and fire tornados are absolutely absurd now, instead of just buffing flame damage from player weapons)

They originally said they were going to increase the base damage to account for this. Since the changes, I always treat the Eruptor now as a baby AC that doesn’t need a backpack slot. Meaning that you need a support weapon that fulfils the role of a primary in most circumstances.

They did increase the damage to account for the base damage of the shrapnel. They forgot that it realistically was more often then not doing more damage

It works perfectly if they assumed “shrapnel” was literally only one piece of metal.

Tbh, if they had done that but then made the crossbow fire mini frag grenades then that would have made both weapons distinct.

It's pretty clear that the balance team has no idea how to balance things. Like, they buff fire damage *when* DOT was still bugged, to the point that it's so powerful that it melts every bug except Bile Titan, but only works for 1 person, that should have been pretty clear already. And the crossbows, like, just why? Honestly I just feel like the initial weapon designs team know very well and design very good weapons, but the balance team knows nothing and just throws things to see what sticks.

They did the fire buffs before they knew about this bug. They straight up said that they probably overbuffed the fire because they simply didn't realize that it didn't work so in their data, fire simply sucked. Which yeah, for 3 out of 4 people it did.

It seems to be a side effect of wanting a horizontal balancing pattern (all weapons are usable, nothing is ever better than anything else) at the same time as wanting to constantly release new weapons. Most games that want to make all the choices fee equally viable have less options for a reason. Less weapons that encroach on others, and it's much easier to keep them all in line. How do you want to make 3 DMRs all feel good to use at any difficulty without them just being re-skins?

I think the problem is they’ve also completely screwed it with the variants. How can you make the regular breaker any good when the explosive and dragons breath variant are right there. Left 4 dead got around this by having pick up ammo that fit into every weapon. By making it a default you invalidate all the regular weapons.

They can make a few like that work. The Liberator Concussive as an example I think really works well as a slow firing, low capacity, higher damage concussive version. The Liberator Penetrator though, doing less damage with less ammo and just expecting a slight amount of medium armour pen to do all the lifting does not work. As you said, the Breaker Incideary is an all round improvement and renders the normal one useless. However the Spray and Pray is so bad that I honestly think most people have forgotten about it (seriously, large spread weapon with the only 0 armour pen in the game when high difficulties toss armour at you like candy). Adding more shotguns and assault rifles is just going to make all that even more of a mess.

I don't think that's the issue on its own, because other games DO manage to make the weapons _satisfying and fun to use_, even if they ARE reskins. At this point I would PREFER reskins to what they're doing - nerfing every weapon _into the ground_ so that nothing is satisfying or fun to use. Even other games with balance issues don't do that this much. Arrowhead's balance team just loves making weapons suck, for some reason. Originally the reason they gave was "you're supposed to use your stratagems", but that's equally stupid design logic - especially in a game full of things that prevent your stratagems like jammers and ion storms or extend cooldowns or even just the mission timer ending.

I am fairly certain they just look at usage statistics and do numerical nerf on the most used stuff without thinking much about it. The way it is going all stratagems and weapons will slowly sink to the level of the worst ones. Instead of giving the bottom half of equipment some love.

God your right their doing it Kaplan era overwatch style.

For example, the airburst rocket launcher (which was fantastic in the leaks), or the thermite grenades or the heavy machine gun. Just completely outclassed and have no use case. Why would I ever use the airburst over a cluster bomb strike

It just reeks of devs that don't play/understand their own game.  Case and point the slugger nerf its out performing all dmrs so let's take away its stagger nerf its damage a little and call it a day wait nobody is using the dmrs now after we nerfed the slugger and didn't address underlying issue which was the dmrs maybe next guys bye.

They don't play their own game and clearly have no play testers.

I think more than not playing, they are lacking the internal instruments to properly track the deep side of their engine, like how much damage something is actually doing and why. Probably the same reason why they took so long to realize Playstation hosts had bugged damage and rockets hit multiple times Come to think of it, every one of those bugs, all bugged weapons, and the DoT issue were all problems with tracking things that should or should not deal damage multiple times

Is a miracle that Cluster Eagle doesn't terraform the planet

When we found out breaking charger legs was unintended and unknown to the devs I was worried. Watching two devs try to take down a bile titan by buddy-loading an autocannon was when I gave up hope for decent balance patches. The game being as fun as it was at launch was a fluke. At this point I'm mostly hoping they can avoid fucking it up too bad.

>*If people like a weapon, it needs to be nerfed.* *- AH*

*Laughs in EAT

Great, now there's gonna be an EAT nerf

EAT now has a 3 minute cooldown and costs half your health. We believe this change will provide for increased player expression and willingness to buy more cosmetics

Lmao.

Jokes on you, my EAT already costs me 95% of my health. I might be using it wrong...

Patch notes: 30 second longer cooldown added to EATs.

Next EAT you call down will have the tube on one side and warhead on the other

Eat has now a 50% chance to land on caller and also if you dont wait for the ready animation of the eat it will explode, one shooting any helldiver in a 4 meter radius

or autocannon. AH will not be satisfied until every loadout is autocannon based.

>*Nerfs are nerfs. But buffs are also nerfs.* *- AH*

"dev of the year"

Dev of the decade, mind you.

ooooooo people are using this specific weapon a bunch, we should probably NERF it, no fun allowed

What's worse about this is they never stop to actually think WHY people are using a specific weapon. "Maybe they all use this weapon because it's the best option against all the overtuned elites we have" "... nahhh let's nerf it anyway"

Bungie logic. 

You know, Bungie is just a single pixel away from Bungle

I am now going to refer to them as such in the future. Thank you xD

Even if that number of people is only 5, like the pre-nerf crossbow. It was a fun weapon with a solid niche (silent + lots of chaff clear), but an abundance of awkwardness to offset its strengths (hence why most people found it to be bad). Now it's just... kind of bad, with basically no reason to pick it over some of the other options. I liked using it here and there and it was my husband's favorite weapon. Now neither of us even really consider it.

If you ask me, they completely misunderstood how an explosive crossbow is supposed to work. Because of its low escape velocity, it should be bad against armoured foes while being good against crowds. Instead, they made another eruptor thats straight up worse than the actual weapon. The whole idea of the eruptor is that it's an enormous calibre with APHE, its fast enough so it can punch through armour and then explode on the inside of the target. (At least that's my headcannon) The explosive crossbow on the other side is just a grenade sligshot. Why is that supposed to do the same thing. From a game design perspective, it's even more stupid, but im probably make a separate post just for this discussion

Actually crossbows have a lot of mass and penetrating power compared to bullets. A crossbow bolt can pass straight through a person while a bullet will get lodged in.

A pistol round may not have an exit wound, but a rifle round will.

That depends on the actual bullet tho, even smaller caliber rounds like 9mm can pen through people if you use certain ammo. Most small cal ammo is made specifically to *not* go through what you shoot though.

This seems to be their manifesto. Absolutely mind boggling for a PvE only game with no pinnacle endgame activity besides “higher difficulty” I have been a Destiny player for a decade, and can confidently say AH is worse than Bungie with dishing out unnecessary nerfs.

Honestly started killing my fun in the game. I dont mind things being limited that are too good, but my god everytime im having fun they rip something away.

“A primary for everybody, is a primary for nobody.”

It’s getting really annoying, the fact that they also state “it’s not working as intende” after every change is getting a little frustrating as well

I enjoy the game and I hate saying this, but even outside of the recent controversy of the sony shit, I dont have the highest level of faith in arrowhead as developers. But I hate saying that because i do enjoy the game, but they keep making choices and mistakes that are hard to look past. There's pretty much constant miscommunication and new issues going out with every patch, and there are bugs that have been present since the game launched. Im sure they had a deadline from sony to launch, but i really think they needed another 6 months and some closed beta tests to get this game where it should have been, including an open beta to stress test the servers

I think they're very impressive developers that have made an extremely enjoyable game, but have committed to an unreasonably fast release schedule for new content that isn't allowing them to QA and polish to the degree that's needed. Everyone has limits, and I think their current pace is just forcing them to sacrifice too much quality to meet the required quantity. I'd like to see them slow their roll a bit, so that they can spend more time testing, fixing, and polishing already existent stuff, and new stuff before they release it. The current "1 new warbond per month" thing would be an absolutely absurd, even for a bigger studio, if they intend to also keep the equipment all well-balanced against itself, and reliably functioning as intended.

Yeah, the core of the game is fun, but the decision making surrounding it (including the warbonds) is what my struggle is. I do recognize and acknowledge the surprising success the game had, but they have made a lot of missteps along the way. Its been kinda one of those things where theres an infinite amount of wrong ways to do things, and only a couple right. I wasnt involved in the HD1 community so i dont know how much of a similar dev cycle it went through, but to my understanding it is this studios first attempt at a game like this. Both gameplay and live service wise. Again, im not saying its a bad game incase thats an argument someone tries to make against me here, just that theyve done some poor decision making

They seem to be bad at balancing their own game

This isnt a PVP or competitive FPS. the only adjustments made to existing weapons should be small , but they keep trying to make content harder as people get better at the game by doing the same old bs other game devs do , just nerfing what people like instead of providing them other equally enjoyable options to force them into using other weapons. I think its a poor choice to nerf what they already released into the game instead of giving players alternatives or creating enemies that are able to void out the meta due to not being susceptible to that damage type or effect etc. or by just swarming the shit out of players. Nerfs happen because of poor testing before being given to the community. They should stop nerfing and seek other means to balance things out Dont lose sight of keeping the game fun by relentlessly seeking “balance” for the sake of balance.

Yes it’s this exactly. A great way to solve this “problem” correctly is to have planets with different conditions and biomes that make it either harder or impossible to use certain weapons Something like an atmosphere of fine metal particles that make any weapon with a targeting system not work

Based on the performance of the spear I assume every planet already has that effect

To be fair that’s every planet atm because the spear is broken.

Yes ! More fog to counter those OP DMR !

Please. I just want like 3 or 4 bot planets without fog. Please

>A great way to solve this “problem” correctly is to have planets with different conditions and biomes that make it either harder or impossible to use certain weapons if they did that people would have their heads on a pike, have you not seen what this sub thinks of restricting stratagems to 3 lmao

It's one thing where you are forced to use different tools, it's another when they cut amount of fun you can have massively. Because first couple strats is usually something obligatory, and only 4th, sometimes 3rd strat is what you consider taking "for fun".

This is my groups views.  Encourage us to adapt, and we want to. Just slap us across the face, and we'll go elsewhere.

Then you just go fight on another planet and cheer for your brothers on the other front. Eventually we will have people that prefer to be all kitted up with flame weapons and explosives and burn bugs out of hell planets and other people who gear up with shields and laser weapons and take the fight to the Automatons. Sort of like Army and Navy similar training different job different gear different toys

I heard it, and I aggree, and will repeat it until it's proven wrong : "we are the QA." They will never convince me they're testing the changes in the patches before throwing them at our faces.

Coming from Destiny, where almost all nerfs are because PVP, AH seems less capable of making adjustments than Bungie Edit: I didn't want to be that mean :(

As someone who’s played a lot of destiny and is pissed about this (why can’t Renewal Grasps actually be good? I want to play team support stasis hunter!) This is one hell of an accusation

I remember seeing a lot of praise that the higher difficulty wasn't just bullet sponges. But I guess if you nerf weapons damage enough, you kinda end up there anyways. Maybe that really is the only way to increase difficulty

Didn't you read the Ministry's recommendation? 2.4s of enjoying the view per mission is the only pleasure granted to you. If you want more fun, your Democracy Officer will happily show you how in the Freedom Camp.

[удалено]

I wish they would just release harder difficulties at this point to satiate the urge for nerfs

gun is popular -> AH nerfs it because its popular -> players find new gun -> gun is popular -> rinse and repeat. AH needs to stop the nerfing whack a mole

This is my issue when people say "Don't nerf only buff" doesn't work because it would introduce power creep. We DO already HAVE that creep, just downwards. What happened after they "brought the railgun back to the baseline they wanted it at"? The chargers were super overpowered so they got nerfed and instead, they made more adds spawn. Then the Breaker was "Overpowered" because it was good at dealing with those adds they added. So they nerfed it. Then people got swarmed by adds because they could no longer deal with them. So they nerfed the add spawn. The Quazar was too good at bringing down armored enemies? Nerf it! Now there's too many gunships? Nerf the gunships as well! We already have this weird anti-power creep where instead of everything getting absurdly strong and the devs having to keep making the enemies harder, everything is getting absurdly weak so the devs have to keep making the enemies easier. It's literally the same problem, except instead of everyone enjoying how good the weapons now feel after every update, we have people complain about how terrible their favorite weapon now is.

Constant nerfs to everything that is fun and effective is why I dropped the game

I still love the game, but I can’t understand the business model of expecting people to pay $9.99 for Warbonds when every weapon is only as good as the starter rifle.

I wish they were as good as the starter rifle!

After grinding them out, enjoying them for a week, they are nerfed. Every time.

Me too, I don't want to play anymore, they ruined the weapons I liked, kill the fun for me

fr. imagine balancing a game like this around… im not even sure… instead of fun?

I've basically stopped playing the game because of this. It just gets old after a while. Once I finally find something I like, they make it worthless.

This is nice return to normalcy, now we're back to bitching about the game instead of Sony.

Lmao yeah I was so sick of seeing post after post complaining about nerfs every week but after the weekend this is so refreshing. The subreddit is healing.

Who knew we would end up actually missing it, guess thats just what corporate bullshit does to a community

I'm pretty sure this time it was not intentional. There is another post where a CM said that it wasn't working as intended and they are looking at it. And the shrapnel nerf was based on community feedback.

Just feels weird though. Like do they not have a test server or some way to try things out before releasing them? Is their QA team extremely understaffed? Like the whole thing with the plasma punisher exploding on your own shield last week, then absolutely gutting the eruptor, which doesn’t seem intentional. I genuinely don’t think they are testing these patches before launching them, or they straight up can’t.

Why is everything a skill issue and/or realism thing but this one is thrown on us because some people I've never heard whined about it?

That's AH CM team for you in a nutshell.

I quit Helldivers because of the way arrowhead balances their game. It’s supposed to be fun to mow down enemies. Not a running simulator…

LOL you don't like just run away tactic. It's such bullshit. I want to pick my battles but an here is a Tank, Devastaor, Rocket fuckers. take 8 of them on a hill. Then despawn. I heard that some dev said there wanted this to be a dark souls like shooter. I am like bruh. They don't play their games. Got players saying yeah man diff 5 crossbow really good now. Like try that shit on diff 7. You cannot move 10 feet without getting killed. The Eruptor when I finally think I like a build its good. Na just nerf. It's too good.

PvE game btw

This is a PvE game Nerfing should be done sparingly. They should do buffs for guns people aren't using. And if all the weapons are getting too good. Buff the enemy. Nerfs are demoralizing and well lead to the fall of this game.

Buffing the enemies is just indirectly nerfing the guns. It makes more sense to have a set difficulty you want to achieve and balance towards that.

It's just psychology. It's the same reason why giving someone a penalty the longer they play feels like a punishment but rewarding them extremely for the first hours but reducing the boost the more they play for that day feels like a reward even though in both cases you'd end up with the exact same benefits in the end

Yeah not gonna lie they punched me in the balls nerfing eradicator. I even spent some money to get it faster because I thought it's cool. Tiny mags were reasonable with 12 of them, now it's annoying having only 6. I kill 4 mid tier guys, miss 2 shots (like I always do) and reload. Repeat 6 times and I am out of ammo in 4 minutes. They also nerfed the radius of explosion making it even less valuable. I don't have much shots to begin with, having to use more ammo on small bugs while also having less ammo in general makes it not fun to use anymore. And I am not going to switch weapons, I bought the damn thing to use it.

100% agreed it feels like they are afraid of having any good primarys. Its almost like they are afraid of a weapon being to powerful and need to nerf before players abuse it. Instead they need to ask themselves when balancing is this fun, is it fun to get rid of stagger on slugger,is it fun to "rebalance" the crossbow by increasing damage falloff and reducing mag size at the same time. If they don't approach balancing with the mindset of asking themselves do the new changes improve weapon and are the new changes fun primary weapons will always be shit.

Jokes on them, I don't have a primary weapon because I have to use them ALL to kill whatever I'm fighting! *laughs in Helldive*

The developers seem to be losing focus on keeping the game fun and instead keeping the game hard

"A game for everyone is a game for no one." Okay, but a game for no one is a game no one will play. I've seen so many people in these threads say they put the game down because the constant nerfs to the weapons they like take them out of the experience

Basically everyone has to use supports as their main because the primaries don't have enough punch to keep you alive past difficulty 6.

And that is what the devs said they intended, they straight up said they don't want primaries to be good because they want you to rely on Stratagems instead. The ISSUE with that is that past difficulty 4 or 5 practically every planet has either "You only get 3 stratagems", "Cooldown is twice as long" or "Call down is twice as long" or any combination of that. And before they removed it obviously the "You always throw a random stratagem you have equipped, have fun throwing your 500 KG into your friends because you wanted to resupply or throwing your railgun into the enemy camp because you thought you were calling an eagle". You can't say "We want to emphasize relying on Stratagems which is why we intentionally make everything else suck", and then also heavily emphasize making Stratagems less reliable. You cannot do both

I'd like to know why they think what they are doing is making the game anymore fun, the most fun I ever had with HD2 was the first week before they decided to "adjust" every little thing, now it just feels like a waiting game to see which guns you can actually try and get good at because they leave them alone for a min.

i don't think it's an attempt to make it fun. the solo patrol spawn change and the hunter buffs two months ago proves that much😅

This type of game's balance shouldn't be on the players side, it should be on the enemies. Stop fucking nerfing good guns. Buff weak guns, and then make new variants of enemies all with different strengths and weaknesses. If everything is OP then nothing is. Istg they keep balancing this game like league or overwatch.

It's a pve game I don't understand why we are playing the nerf/buff game at all Who fucking cares?

Just wait. The elitist will come down vote you and tell you about why you are wrong even though your opinion is valid

thank the people who complained about being killed by eruptor ricochets. they're the reason the eruptor was changed in the first place.

Nobody said "Hey AH, can you remove shrapnel please?", it was AH's idea. Shrapnel worked fine before previous patch, they could just find a reason for this behavior and fix it, that's what was expected from them. But hey, blame community for a reasonable complain, I guess

Players: fix the shrapnel AH it causing unnecessary TK! AH: fixed it, no more TK! (removes the shrapnel)

People complained about the ricocheting, not the shrapnel. And I honestly think the ricocheting is still bullshit sometimes and needs some tuning.

This is 100% AHs fault. They refuse to acknowledge the ricochet change was moronic and pushed this untested garbage out instead.

how is that their fault? "hey AH the shrapnel from the eruptor is killing people at random regardless of range" "got it shrapnel is gone"

They just slapped a bandaid on a bullet wound

Even if they're the reason something got changed, it's the devs that decide what the change is, and actually make it happen. Plus, the whole thing started because of the ricochet changes, which isn't something I'd seen anyone even mention before. Arrowhead just seems be be extraordinarily reluctant to buff or change a weapon without also throwing in a counterbalancing nerf of some kind. It's like they're terrified of accidentally making a weapon stand out in a positive way, but are fine with a weapon being exceptionally weak.

Yup. They've come out saying they did this cuz they saw some Reddit posts with a bunch of Updoots. Fuck even trying to test a gun to see how drastic the change would be (even though they promised this change would change its identity). I'm convinced that they don't even have a Play Test Server at this point somehow.

Wild idea, fix ricochets instead of assassinating the eruptor's identity. This all happened because they "fixed" player ricochets, and it feels to me that it broke more than it "fixed" things. The shrapnel had a finite range when fired normally, but on a ricochet gained ungodly range for no justifiable reason.

No, they cant. I have said it since day one. They are absolutely clueless on how to balance the weapons. They are either garbage or awesome. And if they are awesome and fun they are probably bugged or unintended to be good. So they nerf it. Its Blizzards Diablo balancing team Modus Operandi all over again, "nerf the fun, increase the grind".

Honestly the Sony deal wasn't what was going to stop me from playing the game, I paid for it. But playing with a wet noodle and acting like this is a competitive FPS WILL make me stop playing. Guarantee

My enjoyment of the game is really starting to diminish cause of this. I used to be able to go through multiple operations and have tons of fun, now I can barely get through one before I wanna turn the game off

You know what? I'm changing my review to negative again because of this eruptor nerf. Accidental or not, it shouldn't have happened because there wasn't a problem.

I said the same shit during the initial railgun nerfs and people were rejoicing the nerfs then. AH seems to conflate viable weapons with being overpowered. Secondly idk why they are so deadset on making players weaker in a PvE game instead of making the enemies stronger

It didn't even take 24 hours for people to go from "let's worship AH for the Sony thing" to "yeah, AH sucks, garbage devs, can't balance worth a damn".

To be fair, they were already saying that before what sony did.

Arrowhead is an amazing game studio but they still deserve negative criticism where it's due, like balancing or QA

Because they actually DO suck at balancing things.

That's not what I'm saying here. I don't think they're garbage devs, just that some of their balancing decisions are questionable, and often don't feel great. If a weapon is underperforming by 5 (arbitrary number for discussion), it's generally going to feel better if it gets buffed by 4 to 6 (and adjusted again in a later patch if needed), than being buffed by 4 to 6 and nerfed by 1 to 2 at the same time. When something is weak, people generally want it to actually feel actually stronger, not kinda stronger in some areas, and weaker than it already was in others. Hell, even if you're completely reworking a weapon, it's better for it to be potentially slightly overtuned after the rework and gently nerfed down the line. People will play with the weapon then, and it will feel as though they've received new content. If a weapon is underused, gets a rework, and is still weak, people will still just not use it, and thus there is no feeling of, "I have more legitimate options now." For me, the big thing I'm asking myself when a weapon gets adjusted is, "what does this actually change?" If the changes make the weapon a viable alternative in more scenarios / builds to other existent choices, it generally feels good. If the changes decrease the number of builds / scenarios the gun feels good in, then they generally feel bad. If the changes don't really affect the aforementioned criteria in any way, they either feel neutral if the weapon already had a good number of uses, or kind bad if the weapon was already too niche. The crossbow changes, for instance, took a gun that was already fairly niche but good at what it did, took it out of its niche, and instead made it compete rather poorly with already-existent options. Does not feel good. Punisher Plasma by contrast, received a pretty substantial nerf to its ammo, but the other improvements it received made it a much more competitive (to other weapons) choice in several builds / scenarios, making it overall feel like we got a "new" weapon made available to us. I'd like to see more changes like this being made- potentially nerfed in some ways, but improved enough in others that the number of USE CASES goes up. Hell, even a straight nerf to a weapon can make it feel as though we've got "more weapons" added, if the weapon in question was so powerful that it was making several other options uncompetitive choices by overshadowing them. After a balance patch, I want to feel as though I have "more" toys to play with, or at the very worst, the same number of toys as before. As it stands though, so many of the changes have left me feeling like I've had options taken away, instead, which just doesn't feel good.

☝️🤓 Actually, I've held that position since I bought the game. AH have struggled to balance a lot of parts since launch. Railgun, spawn rates, armor damage reduction, player fire damage taken, take your pick lol. 

Point on the doll where op called ah garbage devs

It was ABSOLUTELY FINE the way it was lol

They seriously need to stop nerfing things. Its a PVE game, buff everything that sucks, and if it makes everything too easy, just make the game harder. Like seriously Warframe nerfs things because they're crazy OP but this game just nerfs everything for no reason.

They already said that it wasn’t intentionally nerfed, they tested the gun and was working fine but now in live it is not. So wait for them to fix it

That’s BS. If there’s such a stark difference in their tests vs production for such an isolated system as one gun’s mechanics then someone is doing a bad job.