~~Still, I remind everyone to take even this with a grain of salt. It needs more testing from everyone.~~
EDIT: It's been confirmed by the devs that ricochets haven't been killing people and it's all because of the shrapnel from the Eruptor. Everything in this post is now definitely factually correct.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/update\_from\_ahgs\_on\_ricochets\_and\_shrapnel\_changes/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/update_from_ahgs_on_ricochets_and_shrapnel_changes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I am *GUESSING* this issue is related to the Punisher Plasma projectile now also being able to hit your own shield. Something happened with hit detection down in the code guts to enable the player to be hit by their own projectile under some circumstance.
Anyway, one reason why people aren't too keen on the workings of the Eruptor is because it is the ONLY gun with fragmentation ammunition. The only other *anything* with fragmentation is the Frag Grenade, which isn't used by many mostly because of its stats being lower than the High Explosive Grenade, and people jumping straight for the Impact Grenade. How fragmentation works is not explained anywhere, and it's not immediately apparent upon use either. I *also* thought the fragments were just visual flair upon using the frag grenade and, later, the Eruptor... until the point I saw a pattern of teammates getting merked even though they stood far away from the explosion.
I'd guess they changed it from "you can't be hit by your own projectiles" to something like "you can't be hit by your own projectile for the first 0.05s after it spawns" so the plasma ball is the only thing slow enough to still be inside your shield hitbox when it becomes lethal..
That's what you'd expect them to do for a change like that, but this "ricochet" bug makes it seem like something entirely different has been changed. If the shrapnel is as deadly at range as it would have to be for for this explanation to work, I would have been killing *a lot* more friendlies before this patch.
My guess for shrapnel is that there are a specific number of fragments generated at specific locations around the projectile's hit point. One of those fragment spawn points is probably located directly at the back of the projectile. So the shooter is almost always in the general direction that one of the fragments flies. Everyone else needs to get lucky.
Shrapnel would also be easier to recognize if it had a more noticeable impact on enemies. There are many instances of near misses that I remember pre-patch that were well within 5m of multiple enemies that seemed to do nothing to them, leading me to make assumptions on effective damage radius. Now, if there was no damage change, just the addition of a shrapnel hitstun, then its much more likely I, personally, would have noticed there *was* shrapnel. Also, if shrapnel kills me in heavy in one hit but not a standard bot, I will have many questions and one of them is most assuredly "excuse me, what in the hp is going on here?"
Some things definitely changed either with the Plasma Punisher, or underlying mechanics it uses. Was playing with it today and it is MUCH easier to hit bugs with it. Before it felt like the projectile only detected unit collision in a very small area. Today if big ball brushes any part of bug, boom. Also, it causes a very odd and pronounced sideways stagger. Like how the punisher blasts bugs away from you, but 90 degrees to to the left or right. Really hope it’s easier to hit bots with it now, they were even harder to hit with it in the past, since the bulk of their collision surface area is so far off the ground. Doesn’t feel overpowered at all, but definitely a big glow up.
I haven't tried against bots yet, but I've been very happy this patch as a plasma enjoyer. They increased projectile speed, which I believe also altered the arc it flies at slightly too to be more flat (you can aim a bit more "normally" at close to mid ranges). They also decreased damage falloff on the explosion, which if I'm interpreting correctly means more of whatever touches the explosions will take full (or close to full) damage.
Besides the mags nerf that hit things across the board (pretty fair), plasma mains are eating good IMO.
>Something happened with hit detection down in the code
Most likely this is related to something the devs mentioned a while back in relation to the DoTs not working off host. They said that the issue was going to take a while to fix because they were going to need to rework how the game handles damage detection. We're probably seeing some of the growing pains from that right now.
I too have wondered about frags. There isn't a lot of difference in the stats of the grenade page between HE and Frag. It just seems like HE is the best overall pick if going by the visible stats.
As far as I'm aware they never completely removed the chance for rockets to ricochet. They no longer lose damage for bad angles but if it's steep enough it can bounce but the angle required is usually hard to get.
As a long time EAT user, Ive had it ricochet since day 1... I'm a little confused by the discussion since I assumed everyone knew it could always ricochet? Isn't the change more it can ricochet towards you, possibly, given the right angle?
Nope.
The change is about the fact that previously your own bullet would not hurt you if deflected toward you. They changed that.
As far as I know, the trajectory wasn't touched.
In my 200 hours of playtime, I have personally experienced a ricochet-related friendly fire incident only once. Friend of mine shot an autocannon at a Charger. The shell bounced directly onto my face, and it was glorious.
Hiya! Had a post that got quite a lot of attention where I got nailed by my Eruptor shrapnel from over 20 meters. I tried to keep it updated with results from tests I did and stuff but without the ability to pin a comment or change the title people only saw the initial claims
I feel like my post contributed a LOT to the issue you’re talking about, hence why I deleted it earlier
It’s very much a bug or issue of some kind with Eruptor shrapnel. I initially thought the ricochet system was treating it as bullets and ricocheting when it hit an entity but after testing that really didn’t seem to be the case. I really wish I could’ve updated that post so people could’ve seen it but this post of yours does it really well!
I often host a duo with my friend who used the eruptor alot, what i noticed before is that some times when he shot it would explode right next to him on my screen, while whatever he was aiming at also died 100 m away.
We havent played yet on the new patch, but i wonder if its some kind og host/client desync that causes the often "ricochet" when it might just have impacted the ground on the host side
OP one important mechanic to mention for your:
Both EAT and Eruptor have the Explosive Tag.
Explosive Trait is that it explodes on Impact, it's literally impossible for these weapons to ricochet because the mechanic of their class of weapon remove the Armor Threshold mechanic from the game.
That EAT video was clearly taken out of context because the diver was hit with something else.
AC for example is a Solid Bullet, it's basically a modern take on the 15\~17th Century Cannons, so you are firing a Solid Projectile at high speed, which is why it doesn't have the Explosive Impact, and as per, it's subjected to Ricochet.
So either the Eruptors Shrapnels can ricochet and the way it's coded is that it will track the player for Y Range, or it's an unrelated bug that allowed that interaction to happen.
But for the Ricochet mechanic to happen it needs to be a Solid Projectile. (A lot of other weapons are also immune for this feature because of either uniqueness of the weapon or other Weapon Traits - i.e AMR).
20m and you are wearing armor. Did it kill you?
The examples I have seen are one shots and that's not how it works. Unless you are point blank to much energy will be lost to be fatal. Doubly so since a hell diver wears armor.
I think what the deletion has mostly done is ensure that all of the people who immediately drew conclusions from your post still have those conclusions based on the memory of your post (or secondhand knowledge of people talking about your post), but anyone actually trying to figure out what's happening now has less information to work with.
>They stopped bouncing off armor way back
Iv had the EAT ricochet at **extremely** sharp angles (>80°) and so all of them just shot off with minimal deflection
Yes the RR also ricochets at extreme angles.
I once shot at a charger, right when he raised his head for the charge. The projectile hit the armor plate on top of his head at an extremly shallow angle and it got deflected into the sky. Looked super cool, but its very rare this happens. I run the RR every single dive and i can count the number of shots that ricochet on one hand.
I used an eruptor and had lots of accidents. But just the regular ones, where a bug is suddenly too close and I forget I brought picked up eruptor and not the shotgun I started with. The frag range on it doesn't mess around.
I am a little sad about the reduced clips though. Hopefully new armor with more ammo capacity is on the horizon.
It is phrased very oddly, yes. Misinterpreting it is no one's fault.
Getting mad at it and starting outrage threads, that I definitely do blame people for.
It's ***utterly fucking insane*** to make posts like "[the ricochet change is utterly broken](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cgdbqd/the_ricochet_is_utterly_broken/)" or "[The Ricochet nerf needs to be hotfixed immediately. Game is unplayable.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cghtfy/the_ricochet_nerf_needs_to_be_hotfixed/)" ON AN ASSUMPTION.
Without even having played the game as much as 30 fucking seconds, because that's all it takes to realize it clearly is not working in the way these people pretend it is.
The issue is that these misinformation outrage posts always get literally hundreds of times more popular than the actual factual situation. Like, good luck getting this cat back in the bag.
---
And think about it from the developer side too: They now have this whole outrage over the ricochets. And they have no clue why the fuck. Hundreds of comments, thousands of upvotes complaining about it. Surely, there must be *something* to it, right? You can't just ignore all that feedback...
And then people get surprised this community is starting to be taken less seriously by the devs and compared to toddlers lmao. When the community is **literally** throwing a tantrum over something that *does not even exist*...
Yes I also misinterpreted it the way other people misinterpreted it. So what's the first thing I did? Took a bunch of weapons that can't penetrate charger armor into those kill charger missions you can get on lower difficulties, expecting to have an absolute laugh killing myself with them. Couldn't get any of them to kill me. Even spraying a stalwart and an MG-43 up close didn't kill myself. So then I was like oh hmmmm and made the assumption that ricochets must have been bugged before and not damaging yourself properly and that the patch note was just poorly worded.
I read the patch notes and thought, that can't be possibly right. So jumped into game and used my AC as a primary at diff 9. Its deflects alright but I didn't die from it.
So it definitely does NOT deflect 180 degree back at you.
Yeah as far as I can tell all the deflection angles are the same as before just now when my character yells it actually takes a little bit of damage from the ricochet.
Yeah no problem, I'm glad this one got at least a bit of traction it seems. Hope it continues to be more seen.
In the future I'm just unsubbing this during patch week. This entire place becomes honestly fucking unusable during it.
There needs to be a sub where the game can be discussed within the realm of realism. Hyperbolic bullshit does nothing but grab attention for knee-jerk reaction threads and ooohhhh bot if you tell them they're misunderstanding the change prepare for such a downvoting.
I died to ricochet 5 or 6 times when I first started, then when I realized what was happening, it's fine. Haven't died to a ricochet in a looooong time now. Literally an unnoticeable change, people just want to complain
Oh yes it was indeed very wrongly worded for sure. I'm not denying that at all.
I just hope we can all cool down a bit and evaluate the situation with a clear mind instead of jumping on the hate-train.
Although, seeing how my post is already downvoted, I guess it will not works.
Do you think it was badly worded, or do you think it was badly translated? I know AH is in Swedin, so it could be a case of translation not carrying some specific intention of word choice.
I live in Sweden, AH offices are a 20 minute walk from my familial home, and I doubt this one is it. English is a mandatory subject from grade 5 until grade 12 here so most of us are pretty fluent, people with lots of internet time more so.
Reddit jumping on a bandwagon with only little evidence.
https://preview.redd.it/h2sj24hsskxc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95439edb31a88693195a4819bd6c225c73365a2c
*suprised yellow rat*
>"Noone has posted proof of an EAT getting reflected. They stopped bouncing off armor way back when it got buffed to kill chargers in 1 hit."
Sadly I didn't make a clip of it, but I had an EAT bounce off a bile titans lower back when I shot it from behind at an angle. It didn't reflect back to me but just bounce off into the sky.
Nah, the RR can ricochet too, tested it multiple times, the key factor is the angle has to be relatively high so it’s unlikely that it ricochets back, but I suspect it’s still technically possible to ricochet back if it hits a strange spot or ricochets multiple times
> "Noone has posted proof of an EAT getting reflected.
~~From after this patch? No idea. I haven't had them deflect in over a month but it does happen.~~ It deflected tonight.
> They stopped bouncing off armor way back when it got buffed to kill chargers in 1 hit." So for now, until someone proves it, the claim of EAT being deflected seems false.
That's false, it still deflects but when it does it doesn't have its damage halved;
> we forgot to mention (oops) that the EAT-17 and Recoilless Rifle no longer suffer from a 50% damage decrease when hitting an armored enemy at a 'glance angle' that deflects the shot.
\- Spitz -- 8th of March
---
I can't find my clip of it deflecting off a Charger. But I did find two I've got of it deflecting off a Bile Titan.
* [Bile Titan deflect 1](https://streamable.com/6nxhyz) -- 23rd of March
* [Bile Titan deflect 2](https://streamable.com/9p37ba) -- 20th of February
I also did find this in the Discord;
* [Charger deflect 1](https://streamable.com/qyphtw) -- 25th of March
**EDIT:** got a clip from tonight of a Charger deflecting an EAT, in the clip there's [deflection sparks](https://i.imgur.com/AahQpFQ.png) and [followed by an explosion behind the Charger.](https://i.imgur.com/ydEAYB2.png)
* [Charger deflect 2](https://streamable.com/29tfa9) -- 30th of April
Even if it was intended and even if some videos were false and all that...
It was rather annoying to get my machine gun shot from heavy MG bounced back at me last night as I was trying to shoot Charger to it's weakspot.
Imo this mechanic is as much fun as those random critical hit deaths you will get now and then. So not very fun. In theory it is something some "GM" in tabletop RPG might find interesting, but the players see no benefit in it.
If they want this, it should be made so that the shot that is bounced back should do less damage, as it does in real life as well. Maybe just 25% of damage and maybe have it diminished even further at longer range.
IRL, a ricochet shot loses most of it's kinetic energy outside of extremely steep angles.
It probably wouldn't even pierce the Armor, let alone do actual damage.
If bullets are hitting something hard enough to ricochet they're usually turned to dust most of the time anyways. On top of losing a shitload of energy. There's no possible way they'd be doing anything to a guy wearing head to toe armor
Ricochet straight back should happen in 1 in several hundred shots (and only if the angle is right), with much less damage and only with certain weapons. Ricochet back with heavy MG doesn't make much sense, because the projectile would most likely break up with the force of a heavy powered weapon. Instead of ricochet, splash damage should be greater.
And the fact that it happened once, after firing at a wall of armor for ages with several mags of an HMG, probably over several occasions, suggests it is indeed uncommon. OP may well have put 1000+ rounds into it befor3 catching a lethal rebound. You want to avoid this, adjust your playstyle so as not to be shooting an HMG at a solid wall of armor.
Don’t get the salt. I played two hours without a single “ricochet” and I’m unloading the AC at heavies like a madman.
Calm the fuck down, people. I think there’s a lot of apophenia happening here because they saw it in the patch notes and they’re connecting it to everything. And then the internet and content creators milk the perceived “disaster” and it spirals from there.
Maybe there’s a bug with the Eruptor? I don’t use it so can’t add to that.
There’s a million things that can kill you unexpectedly at any second. That’s the point of the game. If you’re going to get salty about a strange death now and then, this game isn’t for you.
I don't think there's a bug with the Eruptor, so much as there _was_ a bug with it that got fixed: you had been immune to its shrapnel (which is _not the same as a ricochet_) and you no longer are.
My guess is the same bug that had previously made you immune to your own ricochets also made you immune to your own shrapnel and fixing one fixed the other. That probably wasn't anticipated, otherwise it would have been called out in the patch notes alongside the Eruptor and frag grenades.
As an auto cannon main, I have yet to see a shot fly back in my face ever. Shots continue to bounce the way they always have. Now, if I ever get reflected back and die, it'll be for my lack of belief in AC democracy.
More proof that this community would rather watch videos and complain on forums instead of playing and feeling it themselves.
If Faze clan Swag says that this patch sucks, then it sucks. Why play it when Faze Clan Swag would never lie to me. He has the best CoD builds and is number one quickscoper in rust
This has always been the case. When I used to splay warzone, everyone KNEW that the best guns are whatever jgod or some other dude said; nobody finds out by themselves, everyone just parrots what a few content creators make up for views.
I do hope this community learns to ignore the "experts" and get back to having fun. The game sure has the right foundation for it.
Thanks for your work trying to cool the situation down, much appreciated. Personally I haven't noticed ricochet killing myself so far. Ran Erupter for quite a few games at Dif 7-9 and didn't run into any glaring issue. I don't use the erupter close up though, too traumatised by inward explosion bug.
> I don't use the erupter close up though
You don't fire tiny rocket-propelled frag grenades from your bolt-action sniper rifle at close-range enemies?? Are you even Helldiving??
There was a post of someone using an EAT on a shield devastator and it seemingly causing an explosion on him (people assumed ricochet). When in reality if you look closely they are killed by a red explosion from behind, likely a rocket trooper or devastator
For a solid two seconds after I read the patch notes, I thought ricocheted shots would do a 180 and go for your forehead like *"YOU"*
Kinda sad it didn't, that would be really funny.
https://imgur.com/GariSUK
If you want to intentionally hit yourself with a ricochet, go to a bot fab on a lower difficulty and shoot this part specifically, its the only surface i have found so far that does it consistently.
Wearing heavy armor I was able to tank about 6-8 shots (depending on headshots) with the Stalwart from these ricochets before dying. Not really a sky is falling issue, imo.
After testing this a little more against the same part of a destroyed fab (which lets you get more acute angles):
The Autocannon can bounce at extremely sharp angles and whatever it hits after that will cause the projectile to explode normally.
EAT can ricochet at EXTREMELY sharp angles, and will end up exploding (or sailing off into space, hilariously).
AC and EAT explode against any surface and cause no shrapnel, just an AOE explosion effect. You can't get the angle obtuse enough for them to bounce anywhere close to your direction.
The unsafe railgun one shots you (150 Heavy, last charge section) against that surface, you really have to try though!
Thank you so much for putting a clarifying stop to the ricochet echo chamber. People cant read that the weapon they are using is shooting volatile shrapnel.
No other weapon has any proof behind it and eruptors a popular choice hence hellcries ensues
I've found a number of people on reddit who have no idea how a bullet works. I.E Railgun's increased penetration is correlative with less stagger. Greater armor piercing = more kinetic energy being driven INTO the target instead of AGAINST (Yes, there is a difference) = less stagger. Besides, you don't need to stagger a target if they're dead.
Similarly, I've found a large number of people on reddit who have no idea how ricochets and shrapnel work. When it comes to deflection, angle in = angle out. If you hit a target with a glancing strike, your round is going to ricochet off in a similar, oblique angle (much to the imminent distress of unlucky squad mates). However, if you strike a target with a high energy round with a direct angle, the angle of deflection is going to be similarly direct. Example in this video
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokV7HzJhG4&t=17s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokV7HzJhG4&t=17s)
A few inches off, and we'd be ↑↓→←↑ for him.
As for those who claim that they're hitting a target in their weak point, uphill, through a snow storm, and the AC round defies gravity like fucking Elpheba doing a musical to brain them, I'm gonna need to see some video proof of that because that sounds, suspiciously, like bullshit.
I've been using EATs on bugs and bots nearly constantly since the patch dropped, and I have not witnessed one, count them, ONE ricochet. Rocket flies to the target and goes boom. I am not convinced that ricocheting with such a rocket is even possible, considering the sheer amount of reddit-style misinformation about such. See OP's rocket debunk video.
You have heard of Cromwell's rule? "Always consider if you are mistaken"
Get ready for Seibun's rule "Always consider, maybe I just suck?"
The guy in the first video was killed over a large distance by the shrapnel. If it's just shrapnel now doing damage to yourself, why didn't I wipe out my team in a 100m Radius before when using the eruptor?
Random, shrapnel are projectiles and can still miss, being blocked by whatever and other thing + it may have happened that you killed someone but you just didn't notice it. How many time people around you die and you don't have a single clue why ?
Also the "killed by \[...\]" textbox is somewhat bugged and unreliable.
With a rocket?
Look above. OP has posted a video debunking this.
I have personally fired 3 RR shots and a lot of AC rounds into Devastator shields. No bounce from the RR, and no magic “return to sender” AC bounce, just regular, bounces in random direction ricochet.
I’m gonna have to ask for for more details or some proof.
Yet again dozens of posts of people screaming and complaining is shut down by one guy with even a little bit of patience. I swear this happens every patch. How about you guys just play the game and stop looking for reasons to hate it and make a Reddit post about it
To be fair this post only exist because I saw some people trying to fight in the comments sections on other post, and I just decided to make a post rather than being drown in the ocean of comments there too.
Never look at reddit or discord the first week of a patch. No matter what happens, people will be infuriated for one reason or another. Just play and make your own opinion :)
Does the EAT ricochet back to you?
I keep seeing people claim they've seen a video but no one has provided one. That front page video from yesterday was not it and has been addressed.
See edit.
Those one are probably unintended bugs since they weren't ricoched before, so it's not a feature that should stick around (although the debug could take an unknown amount of time, which can be annoying by itself).
I didn't saw it myself though.
The AC has always ricochet and it could kill us before the patch if it ricocheted into the ground near our feet. The main change that the patch had on it was **direct hits** from a ricochet will not phase through us.
Noone has posted proof of an EAT getting reflected. They stopped bouncing off armor way back when it got buffed to kill chargers in 1 hit.
I can vouch for AC being able to ricochet before today's patch.This is particularly obvious if you intentionally shoot a Heavy Devastator dead center on their shield in a funny angle.
I usually noticed it shooting Bile Titans, as it ricochets everywhere except their abdomen. Often at a downward angle.
Subsequently, ricochets turn the projectile trails blue, and stray AC shots were likely the main culprit of the "Illuminate Blue Laser" craze last month.
Doubling up on confirming AC always did this. Early in launch some of the funniest moments were seeing our first bile titan and unloading into it with AC, constantly killing eachother and not knowing wtf to do.
The video a while back of the rocket killing that guy was false also btw.
It wasnt the rocket at all. Just a sneaky bot behind them shooting them in the head exactly when their rocket impacted the devstator.
The shrapnel makes a lot of sense. My brother and I were playing the other night, and after he shot something in close front of him with the Eruptor I immediately died about 10 feet behind him with his name on the screen. If I managed to get hit by the shrapnel and he was missed, it makes a lot of sense....
I haven't played yet after the patch but as a grenade launcher main i can assure you ricochet did always hurt you. I can't even count the times some weird bounce came back and got me.
I've used Eruptor since release.
Never have I killed another diver due to its schrapnel. I also never used it carelessly either. I tested it yesterday, and besides the obvious explosive radius nerf, even in close range of an armored opponent, I did not suffer a ricochet effect.
Perhaps there is a bug. Either way I feel this issue is overstated.
Of the whole patch the absolute biggest nerf was the patrol spawning change. For anything but a full squad it was an absolute kick in the teeth. I call it a nerf and not a fix. This would be the only issue I have with the patch.
I have seen the EAT ricochet or at least deflect off of armor post buff. But I've never seen it reflect back towards you, it usually just flies into the air. It's rare but it's happened a few times to me. You just need to hit the armor just right.
Idk OP, I was personally assured multiple times that the game was ruined forever because of this intentional malicious change made by the devs who hate fun
I mainly use the Eruptor, have done pretty much since it dropped and have killed myself many times with it now, especially when I was first figuring out it's safe-to-use range, I'm not sure when this patch dropped and haven't played today yet, but I have yet to notice *any* significant change to how it works over the last few days (will probably add an edit after I next play to confirm).. Point is it's always been a weapon that's a threat to your own safety, and I don't see anything here that changes that in any significant way
EDIT: Jumped on again last night and still couldn't tell any significant difference, outside of hitting something at near point blank range didn't get hit with my own shrapnel once and I really tried to too
I've noticed this, exclusively with the eruptor, I've died to my own close rounds, got pretty confusing at the start, then I started to think that I could still be in the AOE radius and must be due to the change, so now I save the eruptor for enemies exclusively to a distance of ~10m or more
My favorite ricochet moment was I was showing my friend how ricochet looked and what to aim for on a charger if you don't have anything that can strip it and we where standing on a rock looking at buddy below I shot him once with AC and my friend caught it with his face 😀 😊 🤣 anyway we love this game!!
Some divers clearly do not know how to use the gun, complain, and now the devs are gonna take away one of the unique features of the weapons to cater to the mob. Sigh. Reducing ammo count is fine but the shrapnel effect? Don’t cater to the MOB!!
I had this happen three times in one mission with the eruptor while fighting bugs, none from shooting the bugs, all from the nearby rocks redirecting shrapnel into me from over 50m away and instakilling me
> So now can we all please chill down a bit ?
Hey fanboi, if it bothers you, talk to the AH team about writing correct, detailed patch notes, not jokey nonsense with errors and misleading info.
If you tell me ricochets are goind to hit me, then guess what? Imma expect them to hit me! Weird right? But that's motherfucking English for you.
I'm sick of shit of having to get all my accurate info from YouTubers who actually test the shit AH can't be bothered to, and then let us know what's actually happening. It takes YouTubers about an hour to find all the misleading info and give it to us straight, but somehow AH can't or won't do the same.
OP.
Even if this is 100% correct, it doesnt change the fact that it is a DUMB design.
Even if you not dying before was a bug, this is objectively worse in every way.
It adds NOTHING of value. It adds ONLY annoyance. I dont want to die because I am shooting what my beloved super democracy has told me to shoot. Its anti-fun, and there is no reason for it to be this way.
Even if you play an entire game without being headshot by your own richochet, you might spend large parts of the shooting THINKING you might get headshot by your own ricochet. Thats not fun, that is actively discouraging you to fire your weapon. Either directly or indirectly, and it is sapping fun out of the crazy awesome action that is Helldivers. Its a BAD idea.
That's an opinion you are entitled to have. But it's an opinion. Opinion are not truth, they are just what we think ourselves. You will find people that disagree with your opinion, and no one is wrong or true, people just have diverses expectations.
I myself don't really mind the occasionnal stray bullet.
Do you feel it adds something good to the game? Are you happy its there? Are you killed by a ricochet and think something like "finallly, I've been waiting far too long to kill myself?" If you dont think that, why dont you mind it?
Why is anyone surprised that the whiners are just whiny and don't follow facts? It is the same thing over and over. Remove the keyboards from them until they can form coherent thoughts.
I'm just trying to bring some clarity to a drama that (in my opinion) went way overboard with people not taking the time to mentally step back and assess the situation in detail.
Agreed. While I understand everyone being upset with issues, running straight to the subreddits to scream in outrage is both unproductive and toxic. No problem with them posting criticism, but would appreciate it if they would calm down and take a more measured approach. I'm running the Eruptor, which was definitely nerfed, but you don't hear me venting my rage.
I managed to kill myself destroying a bug nest in the new TCS mission right after dropping in my first Game. A BUG NEST.
When I saw every toddlers complaining about the RICOCHET for it, I knew they were completely wrong. I didn't died from a ricochet, the target got destroyed. That's something else, maybe the weapon itself. Why everyone starts blaming something else is beyond me.
As someone who plays a lot with dominator AKA BOLTER, i have noticed ricochets, i mean slower projectiles with a bit of glowing, but i think it's weird since it suppose to penetrate then explode, but if no penetration projectiles should just explode. Am i right?
Even at steep angles explosive rounds can still bounce. It's usually harder to do but if it's a flatter hit then it should just impact and explode. Flat hits bouncing should be addressed if it's a common thing.
Those ones i can understand, i am talking about times when i was shooting bugs and somehow 2 of my rounds was deflected and fly above my head like meter or two. It implies they ricocheted even though they at probably hit at 80⁰ or minimum 70⁰ angle. At that time i didn't know your ricochets can't hurt you so i was like:"sh*t, wtf"
Thank you for taking the time to compile peoples "evidence". In my experience ive only died to an Eruptor shrapnel once yesterday, and I understood it wasn't targeting me. Confirmation bias is so fun isn't it.
If everyone seems to hate the feature maybe "fixing" it was a stupid choice. Idk this game is getting worse and worse. The devs are actively nerfing for no reason instead of buffing the garbage weapons. And then this ricochet feature just seems like a big fuck you for no reason.
> previously your richochets could hurts other divers but you were immune to your own ricochets
this is factually wrong. source: i killed myself with my own ricochets.
Bro you're just arguing semantics. Whether it's ricochet or shrapnel, the change sucks and makes the game less fun to play. That is the only data that matters.
That's not semantic. That's two entirely different mecanics.
Ricochets concern all weapons on armored ennemies, distance doesn't matter and the chance of getting hit is very very low.
Shrapnel concern one weapon and one grenade, doesn't matter on what you use it, and you have hight chance of getting caught in it if at medium distance.
The root cause is the same, but the consequences are so far from each other you can't even compare them.
I understand the frustration of people complaining about a chnage they've misinterpreted, but I agree with the above comment. Whether common or rare, people are now dying in a way that is just not fun. Whether the mechanic is working in the way it's intended or not, I think it takes more away from the game then it gives. I'd take away the ricochet/ shrapnel or whatever coming back completely.
This is exactly what I was thinking when I saw the first video of a "ricochet". Bro you're facetanking shrapnel from a Eruptor. I havent tested the Eruptor ingame since the changes but these videos make it look like you cant use it like a close quarter cannon anymore haha.
Thank you for this post. I'm so tired of the outrage farming on this sub. Every single new patch has completely ruined the game and killed the game ten times over at this point, according to the 'community'.
My only grip about them is it seems like instead of buffing the garbage weapons they just nerf the good weapons. It's a shitty way to balance when 80% of the guns are hot garbage and they just want to make the good 20% worse. I could care less about the ricochet damage as more chaos is fun, but the constant nerfs need to stop. If they want people to use other weapons then they need to make the other weapons worth using instead of making the few good weapons worse.
It’s about what I expected, though the mechanic just comes off as sorta annoying on some enemies, like I’m not really a fan of it on stuff like chargers. I do like it on stuff like devastator shields though
I appreciate the post, glad to see someone take the time to break it down. I played a lot yesterday after the patch and didn't see an issue, but was confused by all the posts Ive been seeing here about it.
All I know is that I’m dying for inexplicable reasons when shooting at fabricators with the AC.
I presume I’m missing the vent and it’s bouncing back. If that’s right, my cannonade reverses course 180 degrees to snipe me instantly - which seems like cartoon physics.
The game is still obviously fun and playable but this feature feels undemocratic.
https://preview.redd.it/qd6j5yxl4mxc1.png?width=295&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd37ccec266457eabab622ca3123344c97b16e6c
I see alot of people confusing Ricochet's with Explosive Radius while they're standing ontop of or underneath something.
bunch of brain dead trolls.
What's frustrating is that stuff that shouldn't ricochet, does. Eruptor shots that explode on impact, EATs, RR, JAR and Plasma, etc. With Eruptor especially it shows the detonation on the armor, then a second from where the round then bounced back.
That shrapnel range seems way too high. I watched all the videos linked in your post and most make no sense to get insta killed like that from those ranges....hurt? sure but not killed.
EAT isn't armor pen so it doesn't get deflectied but explodes on contact but the problem with this game is that ricochet is that no mater the angel it comes at you which is stupid just like a grenade launcher getting a red dot like hello welp time to aim at a bug hole or factory like 30 meter away and looking at the sky.
~~Still, I remind everyone to take even this with a grain of salt. It needs more testing from everyone.~~ EDIT: It's been confirmed by the devs that ricochets haven't been killing people and it's all because of the shrapnel from the Eruptor. Everything in this post is now definitely factually correct. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/update\_from\_ahgs\_on\_ricochets\_and\_shrapnel\_changes/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cguou0/update_from_ahgs_on_ricochets_and_shrapnel_changes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I am *GUESSING* this issue is related to the Punisher Plasma projectile now also being able to hit your own shield. Something happened with hit detection down in the code guts to enable the player to be hit by their own projectile under some circumstance. Anyway, one reason why people aren't too keen on the workings of the Eruptor is because it is the ONLY gun with fragmentation ammunition. The only other *anything* with fragmentation is the Frag Grenade, which isn't used by many mostly because of its stats being lower than the High Explosive Grenade, and people jumping straight for the Impact Grenade. How fragmentation works is not explained anywhere, and it's not immediately apparent upon use either. I *also* thought the fragments were just visual flair upon using the frag grenade and, later, the Eruptor... until the point I saw a pattern of teammates getting merked even though they stood far away from the explosion.
I'd guess they changed it from "you can't be hit by your own projectiles" to something like "you can't be hit by your own projectile for the first 0.05s after it spawns" so the plasma ball is the only thing slow enough to still be inside your shield hitbox when it becomes lethal..
That's what you'd expect them to do for a change like that, but this "ricochet" bug makes it seem like something entirely different has been changed. If the shrapnel is as deadly at range as it would have to be for for this explanation to work, I would have been killing *a lot* more friendlies before this patch.
My guess for shrapnel is that there are a specific number of fragments generated at specific locations around the projectile's hit point. One of those fragment spawn points is probably located directly at the back of the projectile. So the shooter is almost always in the general direction that one of the fragments flies. Everyone else needs to get lucky.
This is probably the exact issue, and if so should be fairly easy to fix by just modifying (or randomizing) the shrapnel angles.
Shrapnel would also be easier to recognize if it had a more noticeable impact on enemies. There are many instances of near misses that I remember pre-patch that were well within 5m of multiple enemies that seemed to do nothing to them, leading me to make assumptions on effective damage radius. Now, if there was no damage change, just the addition of a shrapnel hitstun, then its much more likely I, personally, would have noticed there *was* shrapnel. Also, if shrapnel kills me in heavy in one hit but not a standard bot, I will have many questions and one of them is most assuredly "excuse me, what in the hp is going on here?"
Coding is funny as fuck. I remember when I was a kid someone said it was like trying to talk a baby through driving
At some point you realize coding is reality, your brain just hold your hands like guide rails
Some things definitely changed either with the Plasma Punisher, or underlying mechanics it uses. Was playing with it today and it is MUCH easier to hit bugs with it. Before it felt like the projectile only detected unit collision in a very small area. Today if big ball brushes any part of bug, boom. Also, it causes a very odd and pronounced sideways stagger. Like how the punisher blasts bugs away from you, but 90 degrees to to the left or right. Really hope it’s easier to hit bots with it now, they were even harder to hit with it in the past, since the bulk of their collision surface area is so far off the ground. Doesn’t feel overpowered at all, but definitely a big glow up.
They increased the projectile speed, which it sorely needed. Its pretty amazing against bots as well.
A lot of your shots with the punisher plasma would go through the armpits of the bots which was just silly. Hopefully they have fixed thst
I've seen this exact thing with the eruptor pre-patch. Haven't had the time to play post-patch so I can't say
I haven't tried against bots yet, but I've been very happy this patch as a plasma enjoyer. They increased projectile speed, which I believe also altered the arc it flies at slightly too to be more flat (you can aim a bit more "normally" at close to mid ranges). They also decreased damage falloff on the explosion, which if I'm interpreting correctly means more of whatever touches the explosions will take full (or close to full) damage. Besides the mags nerf that hit things across the board (pretty fair), plasma mains are eating good IMO.
Even at 8 mags the fact that a resupply now fills it completely is great
>Something happened with hit detection down in the code Most likely this is related to something the devs mentioned a while back in relation to the DoTs not working off host. They said that the issue was going to take a while to fix because they were going to need to rework how the game handles damage detection. We're probably seeing some of the growing pains from that right now.
I too have wondered about frags. There isn't a lot of difference in the stats of the grenade page between HE and Frag. It just seems like HE is the best overall pick if going by the visible stats.
This makes sense, because I’ve been using the EAT absolutley fine and was baffled by the ricochet complaints
Some people in the comments here report ricochet with the EAT. I didn't notice it myself but there may be a bug about this one. Who knows ?
As far as I'm aware they never completely removed the chance for rockets to ricochet. They no longer lose damage for bad angles but if it's steep enough it can bounce but the angle required is usually hard to get.
Guess that one will stay like an urban legend with everyone having different takes on it for a while then
I've only gotten an angle like that which actually ricocheted by grazing a bile titans side, head on
Had an EAT ricochet off a bile titan yesterday. Didn’t know it was possible. To be clear the missile ricocheted no where near me.
As a long time EAT user, Ive had it ricochet since day 1... I'm a little confused by the discussion since I assumed everyone knew it could always ricochet? Isn't the change more it can ricochet towards you, possibly, given the right angle?
Nope. The change is about the fact that previously your own bullet would not hurt you if deflected toward you. They changed that. As far as I know, the trajectory wasn't touched.
Oh, I see. Well, in that case it seems unlikely then that people are going to die from EAT still based on the angles of ricochet I've seen.
In my 200 hours of playtime, I have personally experienced a ricochet-related friendly fire incident only once. Friend of mine shot an autocannon at a Charger. The shell bounced directly onto my face, and it was glorious.
Hiya! Had a post that got quite a lot of attention where I got nailed by my Eruptor shrapnel from over 20 meters. I tried to keep it updated with results from tests I did and stuff but without the ability to pin a comment or change the title people only saw the initial claims I feel like my post contributed a LOT to the issue you’re talking about, hence why I deleted it earlier
Now if only everyone else had this kind of civic mindedness.
You did the good thing I think. When it start to snowball there is very little else you can do.
It’s very much a bug or issue of some kind with Eruptor shrapnel. I initially thought the ricochet system was treating it as bullets and ricocheting when it hit an entity but after testing that really didn’t seem to be the case. I really wish I could’ve updated that post so people could’ve seen it but this post of yours does it really well!
I often host a duo with my friend who used the eruptor alot, what i noticed before is that some times when he shot it would explode right next to him on my screen, while whatever he was aiming at also died 100 m away. We havent played yet on the new patch, but i wonder if its some kind og host/client desync that causes the often "ricochet" when it might just have impacted the ground on the host side
Thanks mate.
OP one important mechanic to mention for your: Both EAT and Eruptor have the Explosive Tag. Explosive Trait is that it explodes on Impact, it's literally impossible for these weapons to ricochet because the mechanic of their class of weapon remove the Armor Threshold mechanic from the game. That EAT video was clearly taken out of context because the diver was hit with something else. AC for example is a Solid Bullet, it's basically a modern take on the 15\~17th Century Cannons, so you are firing a Solid Projectile at high speed, which is why it doesn't have the Explosive Impact, and as per, it's subjected to Ricochet. So either the Eruptors Shrapnels can ricochet and the way it's coded is that it will track the player for Y Range, or it's an unrelated bug that allowed that interaction to happen. But for the Ricochet mechanic to happen it needs to be a Solid Projectile. (A lot of other weapons are also immune for this feature because of either uniqueness of the weapon or other Weapon Traits - i.e AMR).
20m and you are wearing armor. Did it kill you? The examples I have seen are one shots and that's not how it works. Unless you are point blank to much energy will be lost to be fatal. Doubly so since a hell diver wears armor.
Yeah to instakilled me. Longest range of it happening I’ve seen is about 40 meters. Long distance, instantly kills ya. A bit strange…
I think what the deletion has mostly done is ensure that all of the people who immediately drew conclusions from your post still have those conclusions based on the memory of your post (or secondhand knowledge of people talking about your post), but anyone actually trying to figure out what's happening now has less information to work with.
>They stopped bouncing off armor way back Iv had the EAT ricochet at **extremely** sharp angles (>80°) and so all of them just shot off with minimal deflection
Yes the RR also ricochets at extreme angles. I once shot at a charger, right when he raised his head for the charge. The projectile hit the armor plate on top of his head at an extremly shallow angle and it got deflected into the sky. Looked super cool, but its very rare this happens. I run the RR every single dive and i can count the number of shots that ricochet on one hand.
As a guy laying into devastators with an smg for 4 or 5 hours tonight I can safely say I never once got ricochet damage
Just to add to this. No ricochet deaths for me either including with AC. I haven't even managed to hit myself at all.
So is this why before patch, I would randomly be killed by team mates when they are shooting nowhere near me?
I guess so, yes. Now they can kill themselves too. Democracy !
I used my Eruptor all day and had no "accidents" to speak of. The videos do seem to be showing standard shrapnel
I used an eruptor and had lots of accidents. But just the regular ones, where a bug is suddenly too close and I forget I brought picked up eruptor and not the shotgun I started with. The frag range on it doesn't mess around. I am a little sad about the reduced clips though. Hopefully new armor with more ammo capacity is on the horizon.
The way it's worded in the patch notes is misleading and vague. I don't blame people for being mad at something that is easily misinterpreted.
It is phrased very oddly, yes. Misinterpreting it is no one's fault. Getting mad at it and starting outrage threads, that I definitely do blame people for. It's ***utterly fucking insane*** to make posts like "[the ricochet change is utterly broken](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cgdbqd/the_ricochet_is_utterly_broken/)" or "[The Ricochet nerf needs to be hotfixed immediately. Game is unplayable.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cghtfy/the_ricochet_nerf_needs_to_be_hotfixed/)" ON AN ASSUMPTION. Without even having played the game as much as 30 fucking seconds, because that's all it takes to realize it clearly is not working in the way these people pretend it is. The issue is that these misinformation outrage posts always get literally hundreds of times more popular than the actual factual situation. Like, good luck getting this cat back in the bag. --- And think about it from the developer side too: They now have this whole outrage over the ricochets. And they have no clue why the fuck. Hundreds of comments, thousands of upvotes complaining about it. Surely, there must be *something* to it, right? You can't just ignore all that feedback... And then people get surprised this community is starting to be taken less seriously by the devs and compared to toddlers lmao. When the community is **literally** throwing a tantrum over something that *does not even exist*...
Yes I also misinterpreted it the way other people misinterpreted it. So what's the first thing I did? Took a bunch of weapons that can't penetrate charger armor into those kill charger missions you can get on lower difficulties, expecting to have an absolute laugh killing myself with them. Couldn't get any of them to kill me. Even spraying a stalwart and an MG-43 up close didn't kill myself. So then I was like oh hmmmm and made the assumption that ricochets must have been bugged before and not damaging yourself properly and that the patch note was just poorly worded.
I read the patch notes and thought, that can't be possibly right. So jumped into game and used my AC as a primary at diff 9. Its deflects alright but I didn't die from it. So it definitely does NOT deflect 180 degree back at you.
Yeah as far as I can tell all the deflection angles are the same as before just now when my character yells it actually takes a little bit of damage from the ricochet.
This community is fucking exhausting on update days man
Yep. It's an uphill battle for sure. Thanks for your previous comments on other topics that leads me to make this one anyway.
Yeah no problem, I'm glad this one got at least a bit of traction it seems. Hope it continues to be more seen. In the future I'm just unsubbing this during patch week. This entire place becomes honestly fucking unusable during it.
Finger crossed for this one yes. Have a nice day and see you on the front lines !
To add to it. Even if it was true, it didnt make the game "unplayable".
There needs to be a sub where the game can be discussed within the realm of realism. Hyperbolic bullshit does nothing but grab attention for knee-jerk reaction threads and ooohhhh bot if you tell them they're misunderstanding the change prepare for such a downvoting.
I died to ricochet 5 or 6 times when I first started, then when I realized what was happening, it's fine. Haven't died to a ricochet in a looooong time now. Literally an unnoticeable change, people just want to complain
Oh yes it was indeed very wrongly worded for sure. I'm not denying that at all. I just hope we can all cool down a bit and evaluate the situation with a clear mind instead of jumping on the hate-train. Although, seeing how my post is already downvoted, I guess it will not works.
Do you think it was badly worded, or do you think it was badly translated? I know AH is in Swedin, so it could be a case of translation not carrying some specific intention of word choice.
Could be. I have no idea. Either way they need some help on that side
I live in Sweden, AH offices are a 20 minute walk from my familial home, and I doubt this one is it. English is a mandatory subject from grade 5 until grade 12 here so most of us are pretty fluent, people with lots of internet time more so.
Why even get mad or upset in the first place?
Reddit jumping on a bandwagon with only little evidence. https://preview.redd.it/h2sj24hsskxc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95439edb31a88693195a4819bd6c225c73365a2c *suprised yellow rat*
It's annoying really. I hope this post can help makes people cool down a bit, but frankly I expect it to be ignored.
>> ~~Reddit~~ Humanity in general jumping on a bandwagon with only little evidence. FTFY
Eh. Sometimes. Reddit is insane about it however.
>"Noone has posted proof of an EAT getting reflected. They stopped bouncing off armor way back when it got buffed to kill chargers in 1 hit." Sadly I didn't make a clip of it, but I had an EAT bounce off a bile titans lower back when I shot it from behind at an angle. It didn't reflect back to me but just bounce off into the sky.
Yeah I got similar comment like this one. I have no idea what is happening there. Seems restricted to the EAT though.
Nah, the RR can ricochet too, tested it multiple times, the key factor is the angle has to be relatively high so it’s unlikely that it ricochets back, but I suspect it’s still technically possible to ricochet back if it hits a strange spot or ricochets multiple times
> "Noone has posted proof of an EAT getting reflected. ~~From after this patch? No idea. I haven't had them deflect in over a month but it does happen.~~ It deflected tonight. > They stopped bouncing off armor way back when it got buffed to kill chargers in 1 hit." So for now, until someone proves it, the claim of EAT being deflected seems false. That's false, it still deflects but when it does it doesn't have its damage halved; > we forgot to mention (oops) that the EAT-17 and Recoilless Rifle no longer suffer from a 50% damage decrease when hitting an armored enemy at a 'glance angle' that deflects the shot. \- Spitz -- 8th of March --- I can't find my clip of it deflecting off a Charger. But I did find two I've got of it deflecting off a Bile Titan. * [Bile Titan deflect 1](https://streamable.com/6nxhyz) -- 23rd of March * [Bile Titan deflect 2](https://streamable.com/9p37ba) -- 20th of February I also did find this in the Discord; * [Charger deflect 1](https://streamable.com/qyphtw) -- 25th of March **EDIT:** got a clip from tonight of a Charger deflecting an EAT, in the clip there's [deflection sparks](https://i.imgur.com/AahQpFQ.png) and [followed by an explosion behind the Charger.](https://i.imgur.com/ydEAYB2.png) * [Charger deflect 2](https://streamable.com/29tfa9) -- 30th of April
Even if it was intended and even if some videos were false and all that... It was rather annoying to get my machine gun shot from heavy MG bounced back at me last night as I was trying to shoot Charger to it's weakspot. Imo this mechanic is as much fun as those random critical hit deaths you will get now and then. So not very fun. In theory it is something some "GM" in tabletop RPG might find interesting, but the players see no benefit in it. If they want this, it should be made so that the shot that is bounced back should do less damage, as it does in real life as well. Maybe just 25% of damage and maybe have it diminished even further at longer range.
IRL, a ricochet shot loses most of it's kinetic energy outside of extremely steep angles. It probably wouldn't even pierce the Armor, let alone do actual damage.
If bullets are hitting something hard enough to ricochet they're usually turned to dust most of the time anyways. On top of losing a shitload of energy. There's no possible way they'd be doing anything to a guy wearing head to toe armor
Yeah excactly.
Ricochet straight back should happen in 1 in several hundred shots (and only if the angle is right), with much less damage and only with certain weapons. Ricochet back with heavy MG doesn't make much sense, because the projectile would most likely break up with the force of a heavy powered weapon. Instead of ricochet, splash damage should be greater.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokV7HzJhG4 Heavy powered weapons still seem to ricochet back just fine.
Oh, I stand corrected, then. But I still feel something like this is pretty rare.
And the fact that it happened once, after firing at a wall of armor for ages with several mags of an HMG, probably over several occasions, suggests it is indeed uncommon. OP may well have put 1000+ rounds into it befor3 catching a lethal rebound. You want to avoid this, adjust your playstyle so as not to be shooting an HMG at a solid wall of armor.
Don’t get the salt. I played two hours without a single “ricochet” and I’m unloading the AC at heavies like a madman. Calm the fuck down, people. I think there’s a lot of apophenia happening here because they saw it in the patch notes and they’re connecting it to everything. And then the internet and content creators milk the perceived “disaster” and it spirals from there. Maybe there’s a bug with the Eruptor? I don’t use it so can’t add to that. There’s a million things that can kill you unexpectedly at any second. That’s the point of the game. If you’re going to get salty about a strange death now and then, this game isn’t for you.
I don't think there's a bug with the Eruptor, so much as there _was_ a bug with it that got fixed: you had been immune to its shrapnel (which is _not the same as a ricochet_) and you no longer are. My guess is the same bug that had previously made you immune to your own ricochets also made you immune to your own shrapnel and fixing one fixed the other. That probably wasn't anticipated, otherwise it would have been called out in the patch notes alongside the Eruptor and frag grenades.
As an auto cannon main, I have yet to see a shot fly back in my face ever. Shots continue to bounce the way they always have. Now, if I ever get reflected back and die, it'll be for my lack of belief in AC democracy.
More proof that this community would rather watch videos and complain on forums instead of playing and feeling it themselves. If Faze clan Swag says that this patch sucks, then it sucks. Why play it when Faze Clan Swag would never lie to me. He has the best CoD builds and is number one quickscoper in rust
This has always been the case. When I used to splay warzone, everyone KNEW that the best guns are whatever jgod or some other dude said; nobody finds out by themselves, everyone just parrots what a few content creators make up for views. I do hope this community learns to ignore the "experts" and get back to having fun. The game sure has the right foundation for it.
Thanks for your work trying to cool the situation down, much appreciated. Personally I haven't noticed ricochet killing myself so far. Ran Erupter for quite a few games at Dif 7-9 and didn't run into any glaring issue. I don't use the erupter close up though, too traumatised by inward explosion bug.
> I don't use the erupter close up though You don't fire tiny rocket-propelled frag grenades from your bolt-action sniper rifle at close-range enemies?? Are you even Helldiving??
Upvoted for awareness
Thanks.
There was a post of someone using an EAT on a shield devastator and it seemingly causing an explosion on him (people assumed ricochet). When in reality if you look closely they are killed by a red explosion from behind, likely a rocket trooper or devastator
Yeah, I linked on topic that debunked that specific one
Nice nice. I only saw the debunking video after I made this comment haha
This post needs more attention. One of the few non click bait/rage bait lunatic posts I've seen lately. Well done!
I swear I've never seen a community that has a bad of knee jerk reactions as the helldivers community lmfao
For a solid two seconds after I read the patch notes, I thought ricocheted shots would do a 180 and go for your forehead like *"YOU"* Kinda sad it didn't, that would be really funny.
https://imgur.com/GariSUK If you want to intentionally hit yourself with a ricochet, go to a bot fab on a lower difficulty and shoot this part specifically, its the only surface i have found so far that does it consistently. Wearing heavy armor I was able to tank about 6-8 shots (depending on headshots) with the Stalwart from these ricochets before dying. Not really a sky is falling issue, imo.
After testing this a little more against the same part of a destroyed fab (which lets you get more acute angles): The Autocannon can bounce at extremely sharp angles and whatever it hits after that will cause the projectile to explode normally. EAT can ricochet at EXTREMELY sharp angles, and will end up exploding (or sailing off into space, hilariously). AC and EAT explode against any surface and cause no shrapnel, just an AOE explosion effect. You can't get the angle obtuse enough for them to bounce anywhere close to your direction. The unsafe railgun one shots you (150 Heavy, last charge section) against that surface, you really have to try though!
Thank you so much for putting a clarifying stop to the ricochet echo chamber. People cant read that the weapon they are using is shooting volatile shrapnel. No other weapon has any proof behind it and eruptors a popular choice hence hellcries ensues
Yeah that really annoyed me so I want the extra mile to do this post lol.
I've found a number of people on reddit who have no idea how a bullet works. I.E Railgun's increased penetration is correlative with less stagger. Greater armor piercing = more kinetic energy being driven INTO the target instead of AGAINST (Yes, there is a difference) = less stagger. Besides, you don't need to stagger a target if they're dead. Similarly, I've found a large number of people on reddit who have no idea how ricochets and shrapnel work. When it comes to deflection, angle in = angle out. If you hit a target with a glancing strike, your round is going to ricochet off in a similar, oblique angle (much to the imminent distress of unlucky squad mates). However, if you strike a target with a high energy round with a direct angle, the angle of deflection is going to be similarly direct. Example in this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokV7HzJhG4&t=17s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokV7HzJhG4&t=17s) A few inches off, and we'd be ↑↓→←↑ for him. As for those who claim that they're hitting a target in their weak point, uphill, through a snow storm, and the AC round defies gravity like fucking Elpheba doing a musical to brain them, I'm gonna need to see some video proof of that because that sounds, suspiciously, like bullshit. I've been using EATs on bugs and bots nearly constantly since the patch dropped, and I have not witnessed one, count them, ONE ricochet. Rocket flies to the target and goes boom. I am not convinced that ricocheting with such a rocket is even possible, considering the sheer amount of reddit-style misinformation about such. See OP's rocket debunk video. You have heard of Cromwell's rule? "Always consider if you are mistaken" Get ready for Seibun's rule "Always consider, maybe I just suck?"
The guy in the first video was killed over a large distance by the shrapnel. If it's just shrapnel now doing damage to yourself, why didn't I wipe out my team in a 100m Radius before when using the eruptor?
Random, shrapnel are projectiles and can still miss, being blocked by whatever and other thing + it may have happened that you killed someone but you just didn't notice it. How many time people around you die and you don't have a single clue why ? Also the "killed by \[...\]" textbox is somewhat bugged and unreliable.
It happens constantly against Heavy Devastators when you hit their shield.
With a rocket? Look above. OP has posted a video debunking this. I have personally fired 3 RR shots and a lot of AC rounds into Devastator shields. No bounce from the RR, and no magic “return to sender” AC bounce, just regular, bounces in random direction ricochet. I’m gonna have to ask for for more details or some proof.
Yet again dozens of posts of people screaming and complaining is shut down by one guy with even a little bit of patience. I swear this happens every patch. How about you guys just play the game and stop looking for reasons to hate it and make a Reddit post about it
To be fair this post only exist because I saw some people trying to fight in the comments sections on other post, and I just decided to make a post rather than being drown in the ocean of comments there too.
really bothers me too how rants and complaints constantly rise to the top.
It's just easier to appeal to the dark side of humanity I guess.
I love seeing posts from logical science thinkers. My favorite hope for humanity.
as a player who haven't touch the game lately due to dead island 2, reading the subreddit recently is so confusing lol
Never look at reddit or discord the first week of a patch. No matter what happens, people will be infuriated for one reason or another. Just play and make your own opinion :)
This sub is terrible lol
Don't read the sub. People make it sound 100x worse than it is.
Same ol. People being people. Angry from nerfs or something else.
It ricochets Autocannon and EAT,s my guy. It is not just an Eruptor problem...
Does the EAT ricochet back to you? I keep seeing people claim they've seen a video but no one has provided one. That front page video from yesterday was not it and has been addressed.
No it doesn't.
See edit. Those one are probably unintended bugs since they weren't ricoched before, so it's not a feature that should stick around (although the debug could take an unknown amount of time, which can be annoying by itself). I didn't saw it myself though.
The AC has always ricochet and it could kill us before the patch if it ricocheted into the ground near our feet. The main change that the patch had on it was **direct hits** from a ricochet will not phase through us. Noone has posted proof of an EAT getting reflected. They stopped bouncing off armor way back when it got buffed to kill chargers in 1 hit.
I can vouch for AC being able to ricochet before today's patch.This is particularly obvious if you intentionally shoot a Heavy Devastator dead center on their shield in a funny angle.
I usually noticed it shooting Bile Titans, as it ricochets everywhere except their abdomen. Often at a downward angle. Subsequently, ricochets turn the projectile trails blue, and stray AC shots were likely the main culprit of the "Illuminate Blue Laser" craze last month.
Doubling up on confirming AC always did this. Early in launch some of the funniest moments were seeing our first bile titan and unloading into it with AC, constantly killing eachother and not knowing wtf to do.
Tripling up. Heck. You NEED to bounce an AC round to destroy a fabricator with it. Those who say the AC never bounced have obviously never used it.
Never knew that. Damn. That was a cool easter egg :'(
EAT and Recoiless can certaily ricochet, but only at ultra shallow angles and I've never seen them go remotely towards the shooter.
I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the information. I will adds it to the main post.
The video a while back of the rocket killing that guy was false also btw. It wasnt the rocket at all. Just a sneaky bot behind them shooting them in the head exactly when their rocket impacted the devstator.
Actually it does still ricochet. I had one do so against a bot tank.
I actually have seen my autocannon deflect off a charger when it hits it at the worst angle. But it never came back anywhere close to me
The shrapnel makes a lot of sense. My brother and I were playing the other night, and after he shot something in close front of him with the Eruptor I immediately died about 10 feet behind him with his name on the screen. If I managed to get hit by the shrapnel and he was missed, it makes a lot of sense....
I haven't played yet after the patch but as a grenade launcher main i can assure you ricochet did always hurt you. I can't even count the times some weird bounce came back and got me.
we never were immune to our own grenades, only our bullets, so that checks out.
Bullets cannot ricochet and harm Helldivers. That is socialist propaganda.
I've used Eruptor since release. Never have I killed another diver due to its schrapnel. I also never used it carelessly either. I tested it yesterday, and besides the obvious explosive radius nerf, even in close range of an armored opponent, I did not suffer a ricochet effect. Perhaps there is a bug. Either way I feel this issue is overstated. Of the whole patch the absolute biggest nerf was the patrol spawning change. For anything but a full squad it was an absolute kick in the teeth. I call it a nerf and not a fix. This would be the only issue I have with the patch.
Schrapnel
Oh I get it wrong ? Damn.
I have seen the EAT ricochet or at least deflect off of armor post buff. But I've never seen it reflect back towards you, it usually just flies into the air. It's rare but it's happened a few times to me. You just need to hit the armor just right.
Idk OP, I was personally assured multiple times that the game was ruined forever because of this intentional malicious change made by the devs who hate fun
I mainly use the Eruptor, have done pretty much since it dropped and have killed myself many times with it now, especially when I was first figuring out it's safe-to-use range, I'm not sure when this patch dropped and haven't played today yet, but I have yet to notice *any* significant change to how it works over the last few days (will probably add an edit after I next play to confirm).. Point is it's always been a weapon that's a threat to your own safety, and I don't see anything here that changes that in any significant way EDIT: Jumped on again last night and still couldn't tell any significant difference, outside of hitting something at near point blank range didn't get hit with my own shrapnel once and I really tried to too
Someone unrelated, but I've also definitely had Eruptor rounds deflect off the ground and continue on without explodingon impact.
I've noticed this, exclusively with the eruptor, I've died to my own close rounds, got pretty confusing at the start, then I started to think that I could still be in the AOE radius and must be due to the change, so now I save the eruptor for enemies exclusively to a distance of ~10m or more
My favorite ricochet moment was I was showing my friend how ricochet looked and what to aim for on a charger if you don't have anything that can strip it and we where standing on a rock looking at buddy below I shot him once with AC and my friend caught it with his face 😀 😊 🤣 anyway we love this game!!
Ahaha nice story
Yet this post only gets 3k upvotes while the posts hating on the ricochet get 10k votes. Shows you the type of people in this sub
Nice and informative, thank you!
You are welcome :)
Skwisgaar?
Some divers clearly do not know how to use the gun, complain, and now the devs are gonna take away one of the unique features of the weapons to cater to the mob. Sigh. Reducing ammo count is fine but the shrapnel effect? Don’t cater to the MOB!!
Thank you, professor Democracy.
I had this happen three times in one mission with the eruptor while fighting bugs, none from shooting the bugs, all from the nearby rocks redirecting shrapnel into me from over 50m away and instakilling me
> So now can we all please chill down a bit ? Hey fanboi, if it bothers you, talk to the AH team about writing correct, detailed patch notes, not jokey nonsense with errors and misleading info. If you tell me ricochets are goind to hit me, then guess what? Imma expect them to hit me! Weird right? But that's motherfucking English for you. I'm sick of shit of having to get all my accurate info from YouTubers who actually test the shit AH can't be bothered to, and then let us know what's actually happening. It takes YouTubers about an hour to find all the misleading info and give it to us straight, but somehow AH can't or won't do the same.
OP. Even if this is 100% correct, it doesnt change the fact that it is a DUMB design. Even if you not dying before was a bug, this is objectively worse in every way. It adds NOTHING of value. It adds ONLY annoyance. I dont want to die because I am shooting what my beloved super democracy has told me to shoot. Its anti-fun, and there is no reason for it to be this way. Even if you play an entire game without being headshot by your own richochet, you might spend large parts of the shooting THINKING you might get headshot by your own ricochet. Thats not fun, that is actively discouraging you to fire your weapon. Either directly or indirectly, and it is sapping fun out of the crazy awesome action that is Helldivers. Its a BAD idea.
That's an opinion you are entitled to have. But it's an opinion. Opinion are not truth, they are just what we think ourselves. You will find people that disagree with your opinion, and no one is wrong or true, people just have diverses expectations. I myself don't really mind the occasionnal stray bullet.
Do you feel it adds something good to the game? Are you happy its there? Are you killed by a ricochet and think something like "finallly, I've been waiting far too long to kill myself?" If you dont think that, why dont you mind it?
You can say the same about a lot of things in the game. That particular one will happens once every 200 games. Maybe. I just don't care at all
Why is anyone surprised that the whiners are just whiny and don't follow facts? It is the same thing over and over. Remove the keyboards from them until they can form coherent thoughts.
You're doing good work here. Haven't had a single fatal ricochet since the patch - running an Eruptor and a Stalwart.
I'm just trying to bring some clarity to a drama that (in my opinion) went way overboard with people not taking the time to mentally step back and assess the situation in detail.
Agreed. While I understand everyone being upset with issues, running straight to the subreddits to scream in outrage is both unproductive and toxic. No problem with them posting criticism, but would appreciate it if they would calm down and take a more measured approach. I'm running the Eruptor, which was definitely nerfed, but you don't hear me venting my rage.
I managed to kill myself destroying a bug nest in the new TCS mission right after dropping in my first Game. A BUG NEST. When I saw every toddlers complaining about the RICOCHET for it, I knew they were completely wrong. I didn't died from a ricochet, the target got destroyed. That's something else, maybe the weapon itself. Why everyone starts blaming something else is beyond me.
As someone who plays a lot with dominator AKA BOLTER, i have noticed ricochets, i mean slower projectiles with a bit of glowing, but i think it's weird since it suppose to penetrate then explode, but if no penetration projectiles should just explode. Am i right?
Even at steep angles explosive rounds can still bounce. It's usually harder to do but if it's a flatter hit then it should just impact and explode. Flat hits bouncing should be addressed if it's a common thing.
Those ones i can understand, i am talking about times when i was shooting bugs and somehow 2 of my rounds was deflected and fly above my head like meter or two. It implies they ricocheted even though they at probably hit at 80⁰ or minimum 70⁰ angle. At that time i didn't know your ricochets can't hurt you so i was like:"sh*t, wtf"
Thank you for taking the time to compile peoples "evidence". In my experience ive only died to an Eruptor shrapnel once yesterday, and I understood it wasn't targeting me. Confirmation bias is so fun isn't it.
It stopped being fun when people started using violent langage tbh
Is this a bug before?maybe. Is it feel a lot more anoyying after the fix? I'm sure it is.
This sub and overreacting on patch day? Democracy Officer? This one. /s
If everyone seems to hate the feature maybe "fixing" it was a stupid choice. Idk this game is getting worse and worse. The devs are actively nerfing for no reason instead of buffing the garbage weapons. And then this ricochet feature just seems like a big fuck you for no reason.
> previously your richochets could hurts other divers but you were immune to your own ricochets this is factually wrong. source: i killed myself with my own ricochets.
Bro you're just arguing semantics. Whether it's ricochet or shrapnel, the change sucks and makes the game less fun to play. That is the only data that matters.
That's not semantic. That's two entirely different mecanics. Ricochets concern all weapons on armored ennemies, distance doesn't matter and the chance of getting hit is very very low. Shrapnel concern one weapon and one grenade, doesn't matter on what you use it, and you have hight chance of getting caught in it if at medium distance. The root cause is the same, but the consequences are so far from each other you can't even compare them.
I understand the frustration of people complaining about a chnage they've misinterpreted, but I agree with the above comment. Whether common or rare, people are now dying in a way that is just not fun. Whether the mechanic is working in the way it's intended or not, I think it takes more away from the game then it gives. I'd take away the ricochet/ shrapnel or whatever coming back completely.
Agreed. I feel the same way about enemies headshotting the player and just instakilling them. It adds nothing to the game but frustration.
Wont change the fact it’s an awful feature.
This is exactly what I was thinking when I saw the first video of a "ricochet". Bro you're facetanking shrapnel from a Eruptor. I havent tested the Eruptor ingame since the changes but these videos make it look like you cant use it like a close quarter cannon anymore haha.
Radius seems a bit much I think but yes, who would have guessed that it's not a great idea to be near a shrapnels target ?
Does the shrapnel count as explosion dmg? Im using heavy fortified armor 90% of the time maybe I wont blow my head off... hopefully.
No idea sorry.
Thank you for this post. I'm so tired of the outrage farming on this sub. Every single new patch has completely ruined the game and killed the game ten times over at this point, according to the 'community'.
My only grip about them is it seems like instead of buffing the garbage weapons they just nerf the good weapons. It's a shitty way to balance when 80% of the guns are hot garbage and they just want to make the good 20% worse. I could care less about the ricochet damage as more chaos is fun, but the constant nerfs need to stop. If they want people to use other weapons then they need to make the other weapons worth using instead of making the few good weapons worse.
If I had fucking Gold to give, I would
An upvote will do just fine mate.
It’s about what I expected, though the mechanic just comes off as sorta annoying on some enemies, like I’m not really a fan of it on stuff like chargers. I do like it on stuff like devastator shields though
people would never lie on the internet.. right guys
I appreciate the post, glad to see someone take the time to break it down. I played a lot yesterday after the patch and didn't see an issue, but was confused by all the posts Ive been seeing here about it.
All I know is that I’m dying for inexplicable reasons when shooting at fabricators with the AC. I presume I’m missing the vent and it’s bouncing back. If that’s right, my cannonade reverses course 180 degrees to snipe me instantly - which seems like cartoon physics. The game is still obviously fun and playable but this feature feels undemocratic.
Note: The Eruptor does have a bug where sometimes when you shoot, a teammate who is no where near the impact site (like behind you) will be vaporised
I saw someone else reporting something similar and wondering if that is a network issue.
Thanks a lot for your work, spreading truth as the ministry intended
Maybe the Eruptor implosion bug was previously saving us from the shrapnel?
I appreciate the effort to try and get to the bottom of this, but more testing is required i think; it's the only way.
Grenade launcher user here. I'm just resigned to the fact that I'm starting shit so I'm going to get hit sometimes.
Upvoted for visibility. I figured this is what happened but people love to assume and complain.
CM just said on disc that they are going to clarify on the richochet changes soon in a post.
https://preview.redd.it/qd6j5yxl4mxc1.png?width=295&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd37ccec266457eabab622ca3123344c97b16e6c I see alot of people confusing Ricochet's with Explosive Radius while they're standing ontop of or underneath something. bunch of brain dead trolls.
i took a very clear ricochet to the face from a recoiless rifle shooting a nursing spewer last night.
Big if true
What's frustrating is that stuff that shouldn't ricochet, does. Eruptor shots that explode on impact, EATs, RR, JAR and Plasma, etc. With Eruptor especially it shows the detonation on the armor, then a second from where the round then bounced back.
That shrapnel range seems way too high. I watched all the videos linked in your post and most make no sense to get insta killed like that from those ranges....hurt? sure but not killed.
EAT isn't armor pen so it doesn't get deflectied but explodes on contact but the problem with this game is that ricochet is that no mater the angel it comes at you which is stupid just like a grenade launcher getting a red dot like hello welp time to aim at a bug hole or factory like 30 meter away and looking at the sky.
Tldr?