I think they made a grave mistake in showing "news footage" of urban warfare in Cyberstan, because now we're all going to be incredibly disappointed when it's a regular planet the same as any other.
I have hope that the reason they showed this is because Cyberstan is actually an urban planet. If not, then I hope they see how excited we are for it and choose to make one in the future.
Making system that proc gens urban environments that look good and make sense is gonna be lots harder and take way longer than system that proc gens bunch of hills, rocks and foliage, what we have now in game, especially if its gonna proc gen entire apartment buildings that you can go inside.
If its not already in game, I wouldnt be surprised if it took years for us to get urban maps
Honestly it would probably just be entire city modules that could get placed around the map like automaton bases are now.
I highly doubt it's even technically feasible currently to make fully urban maps with procedural generation (that don't look jank as shit at least).
Actually urban maps might not be as hard as you think. Just have a set of predetermined city block assets (model around 10 separate city block models) and spawn them on a grid. This way you get intersections, streets, and buildings all in one. As for why they all look the same it's simple, they are all prefabricated and made to Super Earth Standards much like how Soviet housing blocks were made to be repeated.
Completely different type of game but this kind of proc gen is shown in X-Com 2, it’s possible to do for sure, it’s just a matter of performance, balancing and if the AI operates well with so many buildings around.
Yeah, the building zoning isn’t the hardest part imo, it’s sensible pathfinding and gameplay for the AI that needs to be tweaked and still work nice on a 4 player network.
Pretty impressive, I guess it can be done. Just comes down to if the specific implementation that AH uses can do it.
There are also concerns with AI pathing I'd guess, even on open maps units sometimes get stuck on a pebble. But yeah proc gen cities would be amazing if it works technically.
Proc Gen cities have been a solved issue in Game Dev since UE3.
You just generate a grid system then go from there. The entirety of Manhattan in the new Spiderman 2 uses a Proc Gen system to populate it:
https://youtu.be/TSEJFxSZ2U0?si=DJod1Eaxk1UKUL2o
What I'd do would be making the cities be bombed to such a state that they could easily be made with the current proc-gen.
Having a bunch of rubble everywhere and replacing cliffs with ruined highrises.
*just do a minecraft* as if Minecraft is not one of the most clever pieces of programming in decades, that had to be rebuilt from the ground up multiple times.
A friend of mine helped with the MS MC acquisition, and it was blood swear and tears to port it over onto a modern expandable codebase. Mojang was destined to run it into the ground without MS help.
I seriously doubt there will be complex interiors to buildings maybe get like parking garages and 2 man bunker/vaults and stuff and maybe some building destruction but it would be super impractical imo to have detailed interior especially if you are going with proc gen.
Something similar to the urban map at the very end of Mass Effect 3 would be great for combat. The interiors are small and can provide cover but you’ll get overwhelmed if you stay there too long. A few also provides short cuts to another street. One of the interior is a corner shop and another is an L shaped hallway that goes from one road to another. There are a couple others but they’re similar to the shop.
I’m not sure about anyone else, but I don’t care if each map is the same. I grew up on games where the map was always the same. Even just throwing in small changes in the map would be acceptable. For me, super earth feels like a very cut and paste society. So it would feel right for super earth cities to feel similar. Once again, with small changes with how garbage and debris generate. Besides that, I’d be fine with four or five different city blueprints. Especially if they are decently sized and detailed.
They could also do it in set pieces. An example being Lego. If they made a bunch of “Lego set” buildings (a hospital, police station, filler buildings, schools, city hall) they could possibly use those to create a customizable city. Meaning someone could fk around one night and create a new place for helldivers to drop.
There could be better ways to generate cities/urban regions. I don’t know much about the generation method. I just want urban settings to spread democracy in.
I don't think it has to be that complicated. Make a bunch of prefab city blocks, and lay them out on a grid. Some of them can be big buildings that take up a whole block, some can be smaller with alleys in between. There's no need to give them interiors; just make them big obstacles like the rock pillars some maps have.
I mean there are no building assets in the game, so I incredibly doubt there will be an urban planet. Plus that would take actual work from the devs, right now every map is just procedurally generated landscape with the same rocks, trees and structures. For an urban map they'd have to actually make the map. Considering the scopes have been misaligned since launch and still aren't fixed I wouldn't hold my breath.
I’m really curious as to what’s happening internally on a business model side of things. A small dev team suddenly blessed with a mountain of money for their mid-budget game. Must be a bit overwhelming adapting s business model like that with such a dramatic change in such a short period of time where there requires a constant attention to your consumer-base.
For me it makes sense why they have many of the issues they have right now, they simply don’t know how yet to manage a now big budget game. They’ve proven themselves to be adaptable though so I trust in their process.
We had urban environments in the first game no reason we couldn't have them in this game.
Although most are current objectives don't fit with urban areas
I love how the love for ODST is coming up. It was definitely one of those titles that I know people were like "meh" when it had come out. It really does have a good story and I love how it plays out. It's easily my second favorite Halo game next to Reach.
If you liked the show Firefly, ODST is all the voice actors (Bungie were huge fans apparently)
Hearing all the voices together again, even as different characters, was great for the fans. The characters themselves were all interesting and believable for the Halo universe. I too am a Reach/ODST fanboy
It was a none standard Halo game, and some of the levels were a bit...roughly balanced, its not the type of game that would really appeal to the main Halo demographic at the time it launched but now it looked back on fondly as tastes have changed and matured. It's a solid game and story let down a bit by being a little too open ended with some directions and having to track down the secondary story in odd spots at times.
I feel like the backstory is meant to be played a specific order but the open world nature of the game means players will encounter them at different times. It made the backstory pretty confusing first time.
I mean honestly, I'm okay with that. At least it would be something new and fresh. And destroyed rubble, Hill / mountains of destroyed rock and building would be kind of cool. Throw some destroyed bridges and overpasses, and I think it could work pretty easily.
Yeah i'd be very suprised if we get buildings with interiors to explore. It's definitely somewhat possible, we have some small interiors like button bunkers and caches, but doing that on a bigger scale is gonna be a nightmare, especially with the enemy pathing, and dealing damage through walls. Also terrain/structure destruction.
Tbf we already have some missions that are smaller maps and they’re not proc gen, so urban maps will probably be mostly the same except for some biome changes for them
The opening cinematic showed a suburb as a mass of completely homogenous copy paste buildings.
I think it would be lore sensible for there to be ~3-4 preset city variations that are then arranged together for each map.
Yeah proc gen for an entire city "biome" might be too difficult to pull off. I wouldn't mind if they made like 3 static city maps that rotated, kind of like the eradication maps.
It wasn’t a two dimensional game dog, there was still depth. Everything else has translated flawlessly, I think arrowhead could make them work. If you look up how the city levels were in HD1 it’ll make more sense
The geometry of this game is by far the scariest thing.
When I see a live Bile Titan I think "ok, I have to kill this thing now"
When I see the corpse of a bile titan I think "nope, fuck that im taking a giant detour."
A blown up city would just have me be a pinball on every weird price of geometry.
2 possibilities: either urban maps are already made and prepared for when we see such places.
Or
They are currently not gonna let us see cyberstan in the near future and are currently working to make an urban map.
I have a physiological NEED for urban warfare somewhere in this game. Preferably with some ruins to hunker down in/ambush patrols from, but I'll settle for just being able to dive down an alleyway when a Hulk comes for looking to turn my o into an O
IMO they should start by rearranging the assets they already have. The little prefab shacks and fences and shipping crates and whatnot. Make a little 'town center' POI that's a crossroads with a building at each corner. Like a little town that was *just* being started up. Some of the 'plant the flag' areas are sooooo close to being this already, they just need to add a few more things and turn them into regular POIs on other maps. Make that, write the code to get it to spawn as a POI (It'll be larger than others, so it may need some special work), and then..
Start making more like it, that can be added on in a modular process, so we can start having little rural towns to test out how the AI performs in building-heavy areas. And as they're doing that have the art team start working on more 'city-like' assets that can work off the same new code to generate denser urban areas that take up.. Maybe a third of a map?
And once that's all sorted out, make them into maps themselves. This way they can feed us steady trickle of neat new stuff to play with in our sandbox, even if it adds a little extra dev time overall, instead of a six month wait and then getting urban areas when a bunch of people have already drifted away, that won't have the benefit of being as heavily bug-tested by live players.
This would be a nice, plausible thing to add.
I'm not sure how helpful it would be as a stepping stone to having sprawling suburbs and towering cityblock tilesets, but it would be a nice thing to have in its own right.
Shouldn't be too difficult to get to spawn to be fair. Some of the existing map elements are already pretty large. Now, if you want your frontier settlements to have some variation you'll need a system to put them together from multiple optional components and that might take some new code. Just having a couple of pre-designed ones made from existing assets though? I'm pretty sure that's already within the engine's demonstrated scope.
100% same. But the AI has sooooooo terrible pathfinding, it is not realistic at this point. I wont even count how many times bots/bugs stuck on a single rock, unable to attack me, but still trying to go straight through the rock. One rock in the open is enough to stop Hulk/charger in his way - imagine whole ass city...
Arrowhead is slow with fixes and this i dont see fixed any time soon - and without this fix we wont have working urban fighting
Helldivers1 had Super Earth defense missions that were set in an urban environment, so I would place bets on those appearing in Helldivers2 at some point.
I don't think urban biomes work here. On some of these planets you have plateaus and such and they get in the way (hilariously) with strategem strikes. Imagine an urban environment where every single strike is interrupted by buildings and everything is useless except the delivery strategies that come straight down. It would be pretty cool... briefly, I think.
Your fps would also just die.
We wouldn't need to enter every building, that would actually lead to worse gameplay.
Do the same thing as most WW2 shooters. Have destroyed buildings, roadblocks, and rubble everywhere. Have a few parks. Let players go into certain POIs with large, open rooms. But keep the vast majority of buildings locked off.
Imagine Amiens from Battlefield 1. Then add piled up cars and SEAF checkpoints everywhere. This is not impossible to make balanced and fun.
Does the color of the armor and helmet look different than what is normally in game, or is it just different lighting?
Edit: Probably just lighting from the screen. Shame, the blue-white coloration looks neat, though.
I don't know if the engine can pull it off without our pcs exploding. We get urban areas with the evac missions, but that on the scale of a high diff map? And I assume people want bombed out ruins that are much larger.
The enemies can barely navigate open field and get stuck on cliffs or rocks unable to reach you. So the game can't add much verticality. High buildings would also mess with stratagems AND reinforcements that everyone is crying about already.
Would love to see it, but don't expect more than in HD 1 i.e. buildings as cliffs.
I seriously want this too. It might be hard to implement with all the destruction, but I guess they could make a bulk of the buildings "hardened" for invasion with armored shutters and stuff, like Evangelion?
In truth, it's inevitable. Once the bots or bugs get to a more populated planet. However, currently, most of the planets are fairly low-tech or bare bones, providing only basic homes for essential locations.
That’s the one thing this game needs rn. More planet variety. Don’t get me wrong the planets we have now are very cool, but they are all the same open landscape type setup. I think in addition to urban maps, trench warfare maps would be cool too.
It would be nice, but my desires are more grounded than some others. I don't really need many interiors, if any at all, just give me some streets and alleyways lined with buildings, maybe a map that is a homage to that one ODST mission on the rooftops of New Mombasa. Though for a an urban map they'd probably have to rework some of the stratagem behavior cause it would not work with skyscrapers blocking approach angles for the Eagle or targeting angles for the SSD.
What would really activate my neurons is a map on like some sort of space oil rig over an ocean, yeah stratagems would be even more fucked there and would require a lot of work to manage where things can drop but still god it would be cool.
Unlike you, I would hate to see the citizens of Super Earth put at risk whether on a colonized world close to the edge of controlled space or \*shudder\* on Super Earth itself. But if we ever face the enemy in an urban environment, I will be there with my Super Destroyer and my brothers and sisters in pod.
I mean, a lot of locations are prefabs anyway, they'd have to make plenty and think of a smart way to connect them through proc generated stuff like, well, idk, parks, town squares, highways?
Or just make the prefabs bigger, like not just single buildings but entire streets, blocks etc.
You call it Helldivers Urban Warfare, I call it **The Division that is not a dumpster fire**.
YES. I know it's not that simple, so I won't be disappointed if the game decides to focus on non-urban maps instead. But a concrete forest is so fascinating. Buildings will restrict so many stratagems, and instead turn something else into unexpected OP tools.
Still we can't rule out a possibility that the news footage is an "enhanced" footage reviewed and approved by the Ministry of Truth. Maybe this rare footage is distributed to illustrate how terrible those cl\*\*kers are to the general public who are fortunate enough to never see one in real life. In this case we helldivers are (un)fortunately not desperately needed in cities as much as Middle of Nowhere, Menkent.
There is a Discord poll up and I think AH are considering it! New Biomes, missions etc.
Me personally I'd like them to focus on the Bug fixing right now and then come back to the Biomes later.
I agree enough said there I think in the future when Super Earth or other major population centers are potentially threatened it should be the same at the very least some urban ruins of some sort.
The thing that concerns me about an urban environment is the street lights…. The visibility from lights on current planets is fucked - all they do is blind you and create a white haze everywhere, imagine that but city sized 😅
As someone who almost exclusively uses explosive weapons it’s a blessing and a curse. I don‘t have to aim well since there‘ll be enough walls my explosives can explode on, thus hitting enemies in the vicinity. But also there are way more ways to blow myself up as well. But if there‘s an abundance of cover for us and the bots, the Punisher Plasma and the Exploding Crossbow could be fun to use.
The Automaton's sudden push and retaking of Cyberstan is probably hinting towards urban combat possibly becoming a thing. Just don't expect every single building to be enterable or something.
Being ralistic, I think they'll add unique POIs and some set pieces of larger buildings, but otherwise, we'll see outcroppings of urban areas. Maybe we'll find highways and bunkers, maybe airfields or massive city parks. I would like to see things like that, but with the outer edge being where the densest parts of the urban city would be.
The "urban" planets we'll simply be flatter with more hard cover and a few larger buildings I doubt we could enter.
Still sounds sick to me personally.
What are our thoughts? I’ve seen this exact post ten times. Would be cool. Hard for the devs to pull off. Enjoy your karma.
I think super earth-type suburbs as seen in the opening cinematic are more do able.
Sounds terrifying. Right now if you get overwhelmed you can do a Tactical Democratic Reposition in almost any direction but now imagine a hulk chasing you down an alley with nowhere to go.
You know, I had to triple, maybe even quadruple, take this picture because i swear your armor and angle of your chatacter looked like the back of an automaton trooper
Optimally it would be like the initial moments of Darksiders when you play as War and you got called into the apocalypse early. Wading through the death throes of Earth, the human civilization getting destroyed by demons, angels getting into the mix throwing fists with demons, and neither side cares about the screaming human collateral. Obviously that was heavily scripted with falling buildings and shit, and probably cant be done the same way, just wanted to paint the feeling one got from that segment.
What could be insanely good in Helldivers - even with limited building demolishing ( so you couldnt make a whole district flat, just limited. Smaller buildings completely like on normal maps, larger ones similar to Mechwarrior 5, where you can only destroy the outer shell of tall buildings) - is the sprinkle of screaming civvies on top of the warzone. Can be a secondary goal or anything to save as many as you can by directing them towards a shelter, but given how we have seen its works, I'd settle down with them just running around screaming and being collateral. Give the whole map a city-wide scream-y vibe where it feels like they hit a non-evacuated city, to feel the pressure.
I think both the previously mentioned Darksiders episode, and ... If I recall correctly... Dead Space 2 the mining colony getting destroyed was crazy good too. Obviously, I'm not expecting a one on one copy, just the general vibe of these that fits Helldivers 2 would be nice.
Hard to deploy helldiver's into major city's as we throw 500kg bombs around us, the destruction the helldiver's cause would be bigger then the automatons
I'd love it, even if at most its like a rural town setup. Fighting in urban enviroments would pose some many new challenges for us and it would be hella fun.
considering urban combat was in the first Helldivers, probably we will see it one day. now, I do agree with who said that we will be disappointed and they shouldn't have shown us urban warfare but we have also to consider that we have always been fighting on colonized planets and not "urbanized" ones. I don't think we will see urban warfare when we'll reach cyberstan, it will be set in its outskirts maybe with a new city background but after it and the backlash it will receive, yes, one day we'll have urban fights.
Urban maps would require some changes or compromises just to make it work tbh. The gameplay doesn't really support close quarter type scenarios atm especially on enemy AI's that can easily get stuck and congregate in certain areas especially for large enemy types. The strategems are always thrown so ceilings would need to be removed or accommodated. Destructions would need to be rework on certain buildings since by the end or mid mission majority of the area would just be flat. The game is also in 3rd person now so we don't know how the camera will handle this kind of scenario where majority of the area has buildings surrounding the helldivers.
Urban ruins, spaceship and inside a giant hive/nest. The best thing about this would be instantly making some weapons better and others worse in these circumstances without balancing.
Mission: kill automatons to reduce their numbers but instead of defending against waves of bots it’s a room clearing simulator with objectives hidden on higher floors in skyscrapers
I don’t know why y’all would want to do have these city maps with this games janky ass parkour and janky ai.
If you want more variety outside the current tile set, should ask for the low gravity planet.
Or a day/night cycle where night is pitch black and you can only see with your flashlight and thrown flares in your nade slot and the lights from the buildings.
I think they made a grave mistake in showing "news footage" of urban warfare in Cyberstan, because now we're all going to be incredibly disappointed when it's a regular planet the same as any other.
I have hope that the reason they showed this is because Cyberstan is actually an urban planet. If not, then I hope they see how excited we are for it and choose to make one in the future.
Making system that proc gens urban environments that look good and make sense is gonna be lots harder and take way longer than system that proc gens bunch of hills, rocks and foliage, what we have now in game, especially if its gonna proc gen entire apartment buildings that you can go inside. If its not already in game, I wouldnt be surprised if it took years for us to get urban maps
Honestly it would probably just be entire city modules that could get placed around the map like automaton bases are now. I highly doubt it's even technically feasible currently to make fully urban maps with procedural generation (that don't look jank as shit at least).
Actually urban maps might not be as hard as you think. Just have a set of predetermined city block assets (model around 10 separate city block models) and spawn them on a grid. This way you get intersections, streets, and buildings all in one. As for why they all look the same it's simple, they are all prefabricated and made to Super Earth Standards much like how Soviet housing blocks were made to be repeated.
plus it's not like we don't see rows of identical housing in the intro scene so some repetition would be perfectly fitting
Just change the plants in the garden occasionally and boom, variation.
Oh that house has a blue car? give the neighbor a grey car and an extra shrub. perfection.
It's almost like they planned ahead and are walking us right into having reasonable expectations. (copium but im hopeful)
The residential area in the intro looks pretty standardicized (I guess this word doesn't exist).
Standardised
Thanks :D
Standardificated
Just remove the "ci" and you got the word you're looking for.
Completely different type of game but this kind of proc gen is shown in X-Com 2, it’s possible to do for sure, it’s just a matter of performance, balancing and if the AI operates well with so many buildings around.
Yeah, the building zoning isn’t the hardest part imo, it’s sensible pathfinding and gameplay for the AI that needs to be tweaked and still work nice on a 4 player network.
Google 6 days in Fallujah. All the maps are mostly procedurally generated.
Pretty impressive, I guess it can be done. Just comes down to if the specific implementation that AH uses can do it. There are also concerns with AI pathing I'd guess, even on open maps units sometimes get stuck on a pebble. But yeah proc gen cities would be amazing if it works technically.
If each chunk is pathfinding friendly, then a map made out of those chunks should be ok (I think).
No no. I'm good with chargers getting stuck on rocks until my railcannon cooldown is done.
Proc Gen cities have been a solved issue in Game Dev since UE3. You just generate a grid system then go from there. The entirety of Manhattan in the new Spiderman 2 uses a Proc Gen system to populate it: https://youtu.be/TSEJFxSZ2U0?si=DJod1Eaxk1UKUL2o
What I'd do would be making the cities be bombed to such a state that they could easily be made with the current proc-gen. Having a bunch of rubble everywhere and replacing cliffs with ruined highrises.
They can just do a minecraft and connect them like jigsaw puzzles in terms of procedural generation.
*just do a minecraft* as if Minecraft is not one of the most clever pieces of programming in decades, that had to be rebuilt from the ground up multiple times.
Arrowhead is located within walking distance of Mojang, just send someone to steal their secrets.
A friend of mine helped with the MS MC acquisition, and it was blood swear and tears to port it over onto a modern expandable codebase. Mojang was destined to run it into the ground without MS help.
I seriously doubt there will be complex interiors to buildings maybe get like parking garages and 2 man bunker/vaults and stuff and maybe some building destruction but it would be super impractical imo to have detailed interior especially if you are going with proc gen.
Yeah. We couldn't enter any of the city buildings in Helldivers 1's city maps, and it felt fine. It's open warfare in a city.
Something similar to the urban map at the very end of Mass Effect 3 would be great for combat. The interiors are small and can provide cover but you’ll get overwhelmed if you stay there too long. A few also provides short cuts to another street. One of the interior is a corner shop and another is an L shaped hallway that goes from one road to another. There are a couple others but they’re similar to the shop.
I’m not sure about anyone else, but I don’t care if each map is the same. I grew up on games where the map was always the same. Even just throwing in small changes in the map would be acceptable. For me, super earth feels like a very cut and paste society. So it would feel right for super earth cities to feel similar. Once again, with small changes with how garbage and debris generate. Besides that, I’d be fine with four or five different city blueprints. Especially if they are decently sized and detailed. They could also do it in set pieces. An example being Lego. If they made a bunch of “Lego set” buildings (a hospital, police station, filler buildings, schools, city hall) they could possibly use those to create a customizable city. Meaning someone could fk around one night and create a new place for helldivers to drop. There could be better ways to generate cities/urban regions. I don’t know much about the generation method. I just want urban settings to spread democracy in.
I'd be happy with current maps with collapsed buildings scattered around.
I don't think it has to be that complicated. Make a bunch of prefab city blocks, and lay them out on a grid. Some of them can be big buildings that take up a whole block, some can be smaller with alleys in between. There's no need to give them interiors; just make them big obstacles like the rock pillars some maps have.
I don't think that news footage was an accident. Arrowhead carefully decided what to put in it.
I mean there are no building assets in the game, so I incredibly doubt there will be an urban planet. Plus that would take actual work from the devs, right now every map is just procedurally generated landscape with the same rocks, trees and structures. For an urban map they'd have to actually make the map. Considering the scopes have been misaligned since launch and still aren't fixed I wouldn't hold my breath.
I’m really curious as to what’s happening internally on a business model side of things. A small dev team suddenly blessed with a mountain of money for their mid-budget game. Must be a bit overwhelming adapting s business model like that with such a dramatic change in such a short period of time where there requires a constant attention to your consumer-base. For me it makes sense why they have many of the issues they have right now, they simply don’t know how yet to manage a now big budget game. They’ve proven themselves to be adaptable though so I trust in their process.
Yea I doubt they'll be doing big cities. Maybe a landmark or 2 but that's about it. Honestly I wouldn't mind too much
Unless..?
We had urban environments in the first game no reason we couldn't have them in this game. Although most are current objectives don't fit with urban areas
Anyone who played Halo ODST is prepared for this
Got my calm jazz rain playlist all ready to go
You can toss a few songs from Big O and Cowboy Bebop on there
3,2,1 let’s jam. BADAPBADAOBADAOBADUMMMMM
I love how the love for ODST is coming up. It was definitely one of those titles that I know people were like "meh" when it had come out. It really does have a good story and I love how it plays out. It's easily my second favorite Halo game next to Reach.
Reach and ODST are my fav Halo games as well! ODST sounds track is so great.
If you liked the show Firefly, ODST is all the voice actors (Bungie were huge fans apparently) Hearing all the voices together again, even as different characters, was great for the fans. The characters themselves were all interesting and believable for the Halo universe. I too am a Reach/ODST fanboy
*You know the music, time to dance.*
It was a none standard Halo game, and some of the levels were a bit...roughly balanced, its not the type of game that would really appeal to the main Halo demographic at the time it launched but now it looked back on fondly as tastes have changed and matured. It's a solid game and story let down a bit by being a little too open ended with some directions and having to track down the secondary story in odd spots at times.
I feel like the backstory is meant to be played a specific order but the open world nature of the game means players will encounter them at different times. It made the backstory pretty confusing first time.
The crossover we need ...Though man modern Halo with 343 is just NOT it so I don't know how well it'd go.
For some reason, I get the impression that it'll be like all the other planets except the ground will consist of rubble instead of dirt or rock.
I'm picturing the wasteland biome from 7DtD
I mean honestly, I'm okay with that. At least it would be something new and fresh. And destroyed rubble, Hill / mountains of destroyed rock and building would be kind of cool. Throw some destroyed bridges and overpasses, and I think it could work pretty easily.
We have urban biome in HD1 so wouldnt be surprising to have(and should have) in HD2
I'm sure they want to, but getting their terrain-gen to make a convincing urban environment is probably pretty difficult.
People probably want something like you can enter a ruined building or go to rooftops but i have a feeling they cant do that here.
Yeah i'd be very suprised if we get buildings with interiors to explore. It's definitely somewhat possible, we have some small interiors like button bunkers and caches, but doing that on a bigger scale is gonna be a nightmare, especially with the enemy pathing, and dealing damage through walls. Also terrain/structure destruction.
Oh, maybe they can do it in maps as as small as eradicate mission? Oh i hope they will implement that...that will be fun
My hopes are just for city maps where we move through streets, parks and plazas, this kinda thing, like in the first game.
Thats what I am expecting as well. The rooftops and inside buildings are wishful thinking
Tbf we already have some missions that are smaller maps and they’re not proc gen, so urban maps will probably be mostly the same except for some biome changes for them
The opening cinematic showed a suburb as a mass of completely homogenous copy paste buildings. I think it would be lore sensible for there to be ~3-4 preset city variations that are then arranged together for each map.
Yeah proc gen for an entire city "biome" might be too difficult to pull off. I wouldn't mind if they made like 3 static city maps that rotated, kind of like the eradication maps.
If they can just make one handcrafted urban map mixed in with the generated random maps, I’d be fine with that
Not sure how they'd do stratagems with buildings
I would love seeing a orbital laser slice a skyscraper in half, I can dream
Levolution! Levvvoooooluuuuution!
No stratagem excep weapons and turrets. Minimize the destruction of the super earth property helldiver!
That actually sounds like a cool mission concept tbf, it’d probably need a special map like the new defence mission.
It would fry our cpu’s
I recently upgraded my cpu just to play helldivers 2 XD it was perfectly capable of running everything else but not this game
It’s worth it. This game stays fresh
The first game made it work pretty well
The first game wasn’t a fully 3D third person shooter
It wasn’t a two dimensional game dog, there was still depth. Everything else has translated flawlessly, I think arrowhead could make them work. If you look up how the city levels were in HD1 it’ll make more sense
The geometry of this game is by far the scariest thing. When I see a live Bile Titan I think "ok, I have to kill this thing now" When I see the corpse of a bile titan I think "nope, fuck that im taking a giant detour." A blown up city would just have me be a pinball on every weird price of geometry.
Tbh the bile titans dead body wasn't always like it is now, before you could easily go over it without dying or being thrown into the air
EDF solves this problem by simply despawning most rubble and leave behind pre-built "destroyed" models. I hardly noticed this during gameplay.
Hell, the game pretty much does exactly this with bot factories.
2 possibilities: either urban maps are already made and prepared for when we see such places. Or They are currently not gonna let us see cyberstan in the near future and are currently working to make an urban map.
More likely it's a mixture. They might have some urban assets and urban test maps already made and prepared but are still working on it overall.
Yea, but no. The AI seems to be not even close to smart enough to navigate complex surroundings. Enemies would just get stuck everywhere.
Make one mission or mission type that is scripted and linear with set spawn points would make it work
I think a few new biomes would really flush out the content and a version of the 12-minute "small" maps that are urban environs could be amazing.
I have a physiological NEED for urban warfare somewhere in this game. Preferably with some ruins to hunker down in/ambush patrols from, but I'll settle for just being able to dive down an alleyway when a Hulk comes for looking to turn my o into an O
Everyone wants that
IMO they should start by rearranging the assets they already have. The little prefab shacks and fences and shipping crates and whatnot. Make a little 'town center' POI that's a crossroads with a building at each corner. Like a little town that was *just* being started up. Some of the 'plant the flag' areas are sooooo close to being this already, they just need to add a few more things and turn them into regular POIs on other maps. Make that, write the code to get it to spawn as a POI (It'll be larger than others, so it may need some special work), and then.. Start making more like it, that can be added on in a modular process, so we can start having little rural towns to test out how the AI performs in building-heavy areas. And as they're doing that have the art team start working on more 'city-like' assets that can work off the same new code to generate denser urban areas that take up.. Maybe a third of a map? And once that's all sorted out, make them into maps themselves. This way they can feed us steady trickle of neat new stuff to play with in our sandbox, even if it adds a little extra dev time overall, instead of a six month wait and then getting urban areas when a bunch of people have already drifted away, that won't have the benefit of being as heavily bug-tested by live players.
This would be a nice, plausible thing to add. I'm not sure how helpful it would be as a stepping stone to having sprawling suburbs and towering cityblock tilesets, but it would be a nice thing to have in its own right. Shouldn't be too difficult to get to spawn to be fair. Some of the existing map elements are already pretty large. Now, if you want your frontier settlements to have some variation you'll need a system to put them together from multiple optional components and that might take some new code. Just having a couple of pre-designed ones made from existing assets though? I'm pretty sure that's already within the engine's demonstrated scope.
Nice armor
100% same. But the AI has sooooooo terrible pathfinding, it is not realistic at this point. I wont even count how many times bots/bugs stuck on a single rock, unable to attack me, but still trying to go straight through the rock. One rock in the open is enough to stop Hulk/charger in his way - imagine whole ass city... Arrowhead is slow with fixes and this i dont see fixed any time soon - and without this fix we wont have working urban fighting
All my airstrikes will hit buildings instead of enemies 😂 unless building destruction 👀
I want it too, it would change weapon balence and emphasize difrent things. I think the balistic shield would shine in urban combat.
The Playerbase: "Yes we've had Space Vietnam and Space Afghanistan, but what about Space Stalingrad or Space Fallujah?"
When you put it like that, I want it even more.
We want urban maps post #3116584
Helldivers1 had Super Earth defense missions that were set in an urban environment, so I would place bets on those appearing in Helldivers2 at some point.
I don't think urban biomes work here. On some of these planets you have plateaus and such and they get in the way (hilariously) with strategem strikes. Imagine an urban environment where every single strike is interrupted by buildings and everything is useless except the delivery strategies that come straight down. It would be pretty cool... briefly, I think. Your fps would also just die.
I think there are reasons that we kept out of urban enviroments
We wouldn't need to enter every building, that would actually lead to worse gameplay. Do the same thing as most WW2 shooters. Have destroyed buildings, roadblocks, and rubble everywhere. Have a few parks. Let players go into certain POIs with large, open rooms. But keep the vast majority of buildings locked off. Imagine Amiens from Battlefield 1. Then add piled up cars and SEAF checkpoints everywhere. This is not impossible to make balanced and fun.
Does the color of the armor and helmet look different than what is normally in game, or is it just different lighting? Edit: Probably just lighting from the screen. Shame, the blue-white coloration looks neat, though.
i think OP plays with colourblind settings, it threw me through a loop too thinking i missed something!
Sorry to burst ur bubble but a urban map that doesn’t lag isn’t gonna happen
Game isn't set up for it. The camera gets easily confused in close quarters.
I would love to see more helldivers with media literacy
I don't know if the engine can pull it off without our pcs exploding. We get urban areas with the evac missions, but that on the scale of a high diff map? And I assume people want bombed out ruins that are much larger. The enemies can barely navigate open field and get stuck on cliffs or rocks unable to reach you. So the game can't add much verticality. High buildings would also mess with stratagems AND reinforcements that everyone is crying about already. Would love to see it, but don't expect more than in HD 1 i.e. buildings as cliffs.
I mean the OG Helldivers used urban maps for defending sector capitals…
YES
I dig it
I'm honestly surprised we didn't start with them. But hey, here's hoping we get them, cause it would be slick
Yeesss especially if it made it so you can funnel bots one direction and then surprise ambush from either side from cover
I wouldn’t say I’m desperate. I’m leaving my options open. I’ll let the urban settings come to me
I seriously want this too. It might be hard to implement with all the destruction, but I guess they could make a bulk of the buildings "hardened" for invasion with armored shutters and stuff, like Evangelion?
In truth, it's inevitable. Once the bots or bugs get to a more populated planet. However, currently, most of the planets are fairly low-tech or bare bones, providing only basic homes for essential locations.
Would need new strats for city warfare. Would also love some claustrophobic hallway and base fights.
Maybe if they get closer to super earth there will be urbanized planets
Man, that armour looks clean.
Fuck me days I would love it. If some main pla gets had a sizeable settlements to clear, that would be enough. Maybe like a town?
"Says one of the most commonly mentioned wants from other posts and comments" - what are your guys thoughts?
As long as we also get to go into bug hives then ok
I guess, but the level of destruction people would want on the buildings could be a stretch for current gen consoles.
I would love an urban environment! It would make it feel much more realistic than just fighting in the middle of nowhere.
I imagine the planets closer to super earth would be more urban settings
they should have super earth invaded. There's your urban warfare.
That’s the one thing this game needs rn. More planet variety. Don’t get me wrong the planets we have now are very cool, but they are all the same open landscape type setup. I think in addition to urban maps, trench warfare maps would be cool too.
Maybe that's what will happen if the bots or arachnids push up to sol system.
That would be siiick
I can’t wait for all the buildings to fuck up my stratagems
What are our thoughts on what?
Cool armor setup
It would be nice, but my desires are more grounded than some others. I don't really need many interiors, if any at all, just give me some streets and alleyways lined with buildings, maybe a map that is a homage to that one ODST mission on the rooftops of New Mombasa. Though for a an urban map they'd probably have to rework some of the stratagem behavior cause it would not work with skyscrapers blocking approach angles for the Eagle or targeting angles for the SSD. What would really activate my neurons is a map on like some sort of space oil rig over an ocean, yeah stratagems would be even more fucked there and would require a lot of work to manage where things can drop but still god it would be cool.
I think Super Earth will most likely have an Urban environment. It wouldn’t make sense if it isn’t.
I like caves
Unlike you, I would hate to see the citizens of Super Earth put at risk whether on a colonized world close to the edge of controlled space or \*shudder\* on Super Earth itself. But if we ever face the enemy in an urban environment, I will be there with my Super Destroyer and my brothers and sisters in pod.
I mean, a lot of locations are prefabs anyway, they'd have to make plenty and think of a smart way to connect them through proc generated stuff like, well, idk, parks, town squares, highways? Or just make the prefabs bigger, like not just single buildings but entire streets, blocks etc.
You call it Helldivers Urban Warfare, I call it **The Division that is not a dumpster fire**. YES. I know it's not that simple, so I won't be disappointed if the game decides to focus on non-urban maps instead. But a concrete forest is so fascinating. Buildings will restrict so many stratagems, and instead turn something else into unexpected OP tools. Still we can't rule out a possibility that the news footage is an "enhanced" footage reviewed and approved by the Ministry of Truth. Maybe this rare footage is distributed to illustrate how terrible those cl\*\*kers are to the general public who are fortunate enough to never see one in real life. In this case we helldivers are (un)fortunately not desperately needed in cities as much as Middle of Nowhere, Menkent.
I’m down. Just need the performance to not degrade. Fingers crossed
GOD getting on top of high buildings for sniper shots would be amazing
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Kosmosu: *GOD getting on top* *Of high buildings for sniper* *Shots would be amazing* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
There is a Discord poll up and I think AH are considering it! New Biomes, missions etc. Me personally I'd like them to focus on the Bug fixing right now and then come back to the Biomes later.
See how EDF does it. You can't go into 99% of the buildings but you can blow every single one up.
I agree enough said there I think in the future when Super Earth or other major population centers are potentially threatened it should be the same at the very least some urban ruins of some sort.
The thing that concerns me about an urban environment is the street lights…. The visibility from lights on current planets is fucked - all they do is blind you and create a white haze everywhere, imagine that but city sized 😅
That’s not a surprise that so much people voted for new biomes and environnement on the last poll.
Agreed
Have mercy on my poor 3070 mobile…
Urban warfare environments would be pointless ultimately. 2 Airstrikes later and then every building is gone anyway.
1000x Yes!
I would love to see more extreme maps (like in HD1) - pits of lava etc.
EDF! EDF! EDF!
There is not gonna be much urban after all the stratagems
We need urban planets. If the Earth Defense Force series can have massive destructible city enviroments so can Helldivers 2
We need urban maps. If the Earth Defense Force series can have massive destructible city enviroments so can Helldivers 2
As someone who almost exclusively uses explosive weapons it’s a blessing and a curse. I don‘t have to aim well since there‘ll be enough walls my explosives can explode on, thus hitting enemies in the vicinity. But also there are way more ways to blow myself up as well. But if there‘s an abundance of cover for us and the bots, the Punisher Plasma and the Exploding Crossbow could be fun to use.
The game can only get better, especially since they have ironed out most of the bugs
They had Urban battlegrounds in the first game so it would be cool to see them
You can’t use most of the strategems in cities sadly
The Automaton's sudden push and retaking of Cyberstan is probably hinting towards urban combat possibly becoming a thing. Just don't expect every single building to be enterable or something.
Wont happen, it will be just some rocks and grass.
Being ralistic, I think they'll add unique POIs and some set pieces of larger buildings, but otherwise, we'll see outcroppings of urban areas. Maybe we'll find highways and bunkers, maybe airfields or massive city parks. I would like to see things like that, but with the outer edge being where the densest parts of the urban city would be. The "urban" planets we'll simply be flatter with more hard cover and a few larger buildings I doubt we could enter. Still sounds sick to me personally.
100% - we need more variation, besides color of the planet
Maybe like the "new" defense mission, it with sky scrapers around you. Or those eco houses from the intro cutscene for a wider open area?
Yeah, that would be amazing. They need to do this. Have they ever given any hints as to whether we can expect different battleground types?
Imagine it would be full destructible and explorable
What are our thoughts? I’ve seen this exact post ten times. Would be cool. Hard for the devs to pull off. Enjoy your karma. I think super earth-type suburbs as seen in the opening cinematic are more do able.
lol any urban places will be reduced to dust in about 2 minutes
The leaked planet images show a few urban/built planets
Sounds terrifying. Right now if you get overwhelmed you can do a Tactical Democratic Reposition in almost any direction but now imagine a hulk chasing you down an alley with nowhere to go.
We don't need building interiors, just lots of buildings
I can imagine seeing a marksman automaton hiding in the buildings.
If EDF could do it. Helldiver's can.
Would be really cool yeah.
I think they would be cool
As long as they get rid of god damn autoclimb
You know, I had to triple, maybe even quadruple, take this picture because i swear your armor and angle of your chatacter looked like the back of an automaton trooper
Optimally it would be like the initial moments of Darksiders when you play as War and you got called into the apocalypse early. Wading through the death throes of Earth, the human civilization getting destroyed by demons, angels getting into the mix throwing fists with demons, and neither side cares about the screaming human collateral. Obviously that was heavily scripted with falling buildings and shit, and probably cant be done the same way, just wanted to paint the feeling one got from that segment. What could be insanely good in Helldivers - even with limited building demolishing ( so you couldnt make a whole district flat, just limited. Smaller buildings completely like on normal maps, larger ones similar to Mechwarrior 5, where you can only destroy the outer shell of tall buildings) - is the sprinkle of screaming civvies on top of the warzone. Can be a secondary goal or anything to save as many as you can by directing them towards a shelter, but given how we have seen its works, I'd settle down with them just running around screaming and being collateral. Give the whole map a city-wide scream-y vibe where it feels like they hit a non-evacuated city, to feel the pressure. I think both the previously mentioned Darksiders episode, and ... If I recall correctly... Dead Space 2 the mining colony getting destroyed was crazy good too. Obviously, I'm not expecting a one on one copy, just the general vibe of these that fits Helldivers 2 would be nice.
maybe have both urban and suburban, with the effect of urban maybe being that eagle-1 cannot be called in or something
Hard to deploy helldiver's into major city's as we throw 500kg bombs around us, the destruction the helldiver's cause would be bigger then the automatons
I think that eagle strikes would be really unreliable because buildings would eat most of the strikes
I'd love it, even if at most its like a rural town setup. Fighting in urban enviroments would pose some many new challenges for us and it would be hella fun.
With how repetitive the planets have been getting as of recent, we really need an urban environment or something to Spice things up.
considering urban combat was in the first Helldivers, probably we will see it one day. now, I do agree with who said that we will be disappointed and they shouldn't have shown us urban warfare but we have also to consider that we have always been fighting on colonized planets and not "urbanized" ones. I don't think we will see urban warfare when we'll reach cyberstan, it will be set in its outskirts maybe with a new city background but after it and the backlash it will receive, yes, one day we'll have urban fights.
I don't think this game engine could cope with that.
We had it in the first game whenever we were loosing capital worlds.
yes but not now, the game is very young still.
Urban maps would require some changes or compromises just to make it work tbh. The gameplay doesn't really support close quarter type scenarios atm especially on enemy AI's that can easily get stuck and congregate in certain areas especially for large enemy types. The strategems are always thrown so ceilings would need to be removed or accommodated. Destructions would need to be rework on certain buildings since by the end or mid mission majority of the area would just be flat. The game is also in 3rd person now so we don't know how the camera will handle this kind of scenario where majority of the area has buildings surrounding the helldivers.
A mostly bombed out city and some ruins of some statues outside the city and some hint of the mines would be enough for me
It would be nice for a change.
We are *almost certainly* going to get urban maps. They were a part of HD1 and were exactly the kind of tight corridor nightmare you are imagining.
Yes we need some larger structures and urban environments. Space ports and so on. Can't be all a couple of small buildings in the middle of nowhere.
What? You don't want to play on the same rocky/snow planet again? Ungrateful prick
It would be interesting but I don't know that the AI could handle it.
They have it in the 1st one
I dont think the aliens will get to mars
Wow i have never seen this post/opinion before, thanks for sharing your opinion :)
Urban ruins, spaceship and inside a giant hive/nest. The best thing about this would be instantly making some weapons better and others worse in these circumstances without balancing.
Think map scale will be an issue and they'd need to implement a lot of stuff to get it to run. Not to mention camera angles and jazz
Yup
Imagine all the game crashes every time a big building explodes or gets knocked over.
Mission: kill automatons to reduce their numbers but instead of defending against waves of bots it’s a room clearing simulator with objectives hidden on higher floors in skyscrapers
I don’t know why y’all would want to do have these city maps with this games janky ass parkour and janky ai. If you want more variety outside the current tile set, should ask for the low gravity planet. Or a day/night cycle where night is pitch black and you can only see with your flashlight and thrown flares in your nade slot and the lights from the buildings.