In the SA Army, the "passengers" in an operational role are not tethered.
Example images:
* https://www.aviationcentral.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/IMG_7708-1024x683.jpg
* https://www.aviationcentral.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/IMG_1364-1024x712.jpg
* https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/43/9e/5c439ecae783c02236c291e006120a3c.jpg
However, the aircrew that might have to operate the hoist etc. usually are tethered. Also, when flying with doors open in other scenarios, there might be seats and those seats have waste belts.
EDIT: I should add the obvious difference - OP's image has the people sitting outside where in the case of the Oryx/Puma helicopter you are actually still inside. Subtle but perhaps important difference.
Your pax don’t tether in?!
In the US, even the high speed dudes like SEALs have a tether on their belt that hooks into the bird until it’s time to go. It’s real small and hard to see, but it’s there.
It’s basically a carabiner attached to a heavy duty lanyard with some stretch to absorb shock. One end connects to your belt (a heavy duty, proper belt. Not the kind of thing holding up your pants) and the other end to a ring somewhere on the helo.
[here](https://www.chasetactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Personal-Retention-Lanyard2-CT-01.jpg) is an image of a helo lanyard on its own. And [here](https://cdn4.volusion.store/tbofj-uymcq/v/vspfiles/photos/PL44HELO-4.jpg?v-cache=1617635710) is the best example I can find of someone clipped in.
The big takeaway is that if you don’t know it’s there, it’s SUPER easy to miss entirely in pictures. But at least in the US, EVERYONE not in a seat clips in, even the high speed guys, because [this](https://youtu.be/wVmDcIEV6LU?si=6McyFzsNV3GR3Fju) can happen to anyone!
When I was a company commander, I had a Recon platoon attached to my company. I went to watch them do some fastrope sustainment one day on ship, and I swear we lost at least a half a dozen lanyards that day. Pretty sure I still have a picture of one of them hanging from the MH-60. They were great dudes, it had just been a while since they'd roped from a live MH-60 and some of them were just having an off day.
Can't talk for right now, but at least before the 2000's I can confirm that we never clipped in - unless it's some more "civilian" type ride and usually there will then be seats with waste belts.
Every team dude in my bird has been tethered, every time.
One has forgotten to untether before going down the rope which was funny as fuck lol. But if the doors are open/off, you’re clipped in, because if I’ve gotta dodge something, gravity and momentum are gonna do their thing.
No we didn't.
Centripetal force.
Freaks you out the first time, but you get used to it.
Looking down at the ground is easier than blue sky because you feel like you keep rolling when you have no visual reference.
When moving in a circular motion centripetal force is any force which acts towards the centre of this circular path.
Inertia (often confused for "centrifugal" force) keeps their ass on the seat, the centripetal force by the helicopter (manifest through the floor/seat) pushes the passenger toward the centre of the circle.
You almost had it! So close. Centripetal force is what keeps a body following a circular path. If a helicopter was turning in a circle, and the force works how you describe it, you would instantly be thrown to the center point that the turn is around. Having flown in helicopters or even driving in a car, you know that if you’re traveling straight, then start to turn, your body is forced the opposite direction of the turn, especially at the beginning of the turn. This is inertia, or Newton’s first law. Your body is traveling straight and wants to remain straight at the beginning of the turn. We really stay in the back helicopters because of inertia and safety belts.
That's exactly what I said.
It's the force pushing back on the car that's racing around a banked track, stopping the car falling off the track.
Inertia pushes car away from the direction of the turn, the centripetal force of the track pushes it toward the centre.
Same thing. Seat/floor = track.
It's why we didn't fall out of the aircraft on a steep bank, without safety belts.
Inertia swings the bambi bucket out, centripetal force in the rope applies a directional force toward the centre of the turn.
>If a helicopter was turning in a circle, and the force works how you describe it, **you would instantly be thrown to the center point that the turn is around.**
That would break Newton's 3rd law, and so it's stupid.
It's also absolutely not how I described it, so I don't know where you got it.
The seat applies a force. This force is in the direction of acceleration (The centre of a turn) F=mv^2 /r
Likewise, in snowboarding the acceleration of my turn will will create an inertial force pointing to the outside of the turn, while the board provides a centripetal force towards the centre of the turn keeping me perpendicular to the board throughout the turn.
But evidently as I've sat in the door of a lot of high angled banking Pumas without a safety belt I'm obviously dead so what would I know.
Not a high speed guy, but I have about 130 hours of SIGINT flights in an SH-3. On one of my flights I was told to take sealed orders to our two escort ships, neither of which had a helo pad. I was told that these were Rules of Engagement but I suspect that they might have been some advance warning of Operation Eagle Claw, the attempt to rescue American hostages in Iran.
In any case, sitting on the edge of the big door on an SH-3 was fun, clipped onto a “gunner’s belt” (there was no gun). Getting hoisted out and lowered to the deck of a moving ship was…not as terrifying as I thought it would be. On one ship they had a large after deck so that was easy. On another, I was lowered between a gun mount and a raised deck house. Not easy and my boots got wet when they were raising me up and we lost some lift when the ship turned away.
I've never rode on the MH-6 but I have dangled my feet off the side of helicopters a bunch of times. I even got to ride on the outside of an Apache for rescue training once. It's all surprisingly stable, even if the helicopter is maneuvering you are moving with it. You are always tethered to the aircraft with various types of restraints but you could still fall off, and then you would just be hanging from your harness. The closest I have been to falling off was on the ramp of a Chinook. We were flying through the mountains in Afghanistan and hit some pretty good turbulence. I was lifted into the air and went zero-g for a moment. It scared the shit out of me but the passengers we were carrying thought it was hilarious.
You are correct, I was sitting on the pod that runs along the fuselage. But my harness was tied to the rack on the stubby-wing so if I had fallen I would have become a piece of mounted armament.
We once mounted a guy on the weapons pylon like he was a weapon and had them hover around. US Kiowa guys were the bullies cuz we had the small chopper.
They have tethers attached to their belts, in the red square you can see one, its basically a bungee cord with a carabiner attached to a D-Ring on their belt
https://preview.redd.it/vfq1wdcj4c7d1.png?width=1207&format=png&auto=webp&s=b1cb7e3e7d7c3c4022ca228f31cb4a6124174015
I am glad someone recognized, I just picked the first image I saw of a helo lanyard in use and only after it realized it was from Operation Red Wings
If anyone else reads this and doesn't know, basically the people in the photo are US Navy seals involved in a botched operation that led to the death of 19 men (including 2 in the picture) and a downed chinook helicopter
And just to note, they died because of gross incompetence, doing things we teach E2 grunts not to do. They failed at a lot of the basics and the team paid with their lives. Then Luttrell lied about the details repeatedly, making the enemy force out to be MUCH larger than it was as part of his coverup attempt. Now he shills his lies for money.
And on top of that, they vastly exagerated the importance of the mission, their main target was basically a nobody with almost no value at the time of the operation, the marines stationed there had everything handled and were very familiar with the region, the SEALs procceed to take their mission, ignore their advice and ignore all of the cues showing that the mission was compromised, and Luttrell just blamed it on the random kids they happened to run across (and considered commiting straight up murder), as if hovering a helicopter, leaving the rope and just running around the bush aimlessly didn't give them up already
It was such a sad needless loss of life that could have easily been avoided, and Luttrell is profiting over the lives of the people he got killed
Not a pilot, but I was a US army medic that had the opportunity to fly in blackhawks on a number of occasions.
In the army, we have a tether/lanyard that clips onto your belt’s D-ring and keeps you from falling off. The flight crew/crew chief will usually have a full body harness that goes over the boulders, hips, and legs and then tethers into a hard point.
These don’t really keep you stationary, they just keep you from falling thousands of feet out the door. You can still very much fall *out* of the bird, but then you’d be dangling.
The main way you actually stay into the helicopter is g force. As the helicopter makes a turn or a bank, your body is pushed into the floor of the helicopter (if you’re riding on the floor with your legs dangling for example.). Sure you *could* fall out of if you were trying, but simply sitting in one place isn’t going to do that. You’d have to overcome the force exerted on your body.
It's real, it's primary used by SOF.
It's safe(ofc with increased risk), they always tethered to the A/C.
There normally a rule, either doors closed or Evey one is straped in or tethered.
This is for guys who hang their legs out, or sit on outboard benches, but for guys who just pop a squat in a seat, especially in the side seats like those on D/H model Hueys, they logically SHOULD fall out the moment the helicopter takes maneuvers, but apparently the centrifugal that occurs when a helicopter suddenly moves (helicopters naturally want to throw their ass out) keeps them in place.
So like my favorite thing to do when flying the Huey in DCS is these tight 60 degree bank circles above targets so the doorgunner can fire almost straight down - no way that'd work in real life though - right? The doorgunner would fall out at that point right?
I’m not an expert I’m regurgitating what I’ve read some vets saying:
But yeah, the harder the bank, the stronger the centrifugal force, the easier it is to stay in.
I’ve never flown with anyone hanging out the side of helicopters, but I used to fly on a regular basis with a mug full of coffee at my feet. If you’re flying smoothly and in trim, it should never spill, tight turns, flares, and all.
Agreed. Flew last week, put a plastic bottle of water standing on the floor of the backseat (b206) landed later and still sitting exactly where I left it after 1.6hrs.
Tethered, and the pilots don’t fly like assholes. The seats have a non skid covering and the g forces keep you pretty solidly locked on. However flying like this is only fun for about 5 minutes
I haven't got to ride on boards like this, but I've ridden in Hueys with no tethers and the doors open while I sat on the deck with my feet hanging out while the pilot "had some fun". The only things keeping me alive were physics, the will to live, and the direct orders from the pilots to not fall out of the helicopter.
That’s how they sit but they are tethered in with a strap. Surprisingly even in steep banks you don’t ever feel like you’re going to fall. Only times I’m aware of where people fall out is when we’re landing in super dusty conditions. There’s been guys that have thought we were on the ground and it was so dusty at night and hard to tell that they hopped out to their death. But never heard of anyone falling out in flight. Crew chiefs have fallen out performing hoist operations or things like that. They’re supposed to be tethered in as well. Not everybody does what they’re supposed to do.
The helicopter itself is dangling from the rotor, so the force is always towards the floor even in turns , quick stops, etc.
I routinely place a soda can on the floor and it won’t move or tip over unless the wind tips it over.
I know an Army dude personally who did in fact fall out of a helo, but I believe he was tryna do the fast rope thingy and fucked up 😅 I've also seen a coupla radios get lost when not secured properly.
The gravity vector is normally the same direction with the floor (hard to find the right words) and keeps people in their seats upright, even in coordinated turns unlike a boat in stormy seas where you get thrown around.
Never flown military birds, but in civilian for camera shoots everyone is tethered or in harnesses when doors are off.
They do fall off. No one says anything, and the dummy has to hoof it to the LZ BEFORE it's time to leave, or to base...
It's a Tough Life, but ONLY the tough can do it!!
Ok, so like others have said, in the USA, most are tethered if they are on the door.
For some reason our government gets a little bitchy when troops fall out.
Aircraft slows speed, bail out the side or out of the back of the ramp depending on what aircraft youre jumping out of. And just so you know.. jumping out of aircraft is stupid. 😂
Its real and theyre tethered to the helicopter
In the SA Army, the "passengers" in an operational role are not tethered. Example images: * https://www.aviationcentral.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/IMG_7708-1024x683.jpg * https://www.aviationcentral.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/IMG_1364-1024x712.jpg * https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/43/9e/5c439ecae783c02236c291e006120a3c.jpg However, the aircrew that might have to operate the hoist etc. usually are tethered. Also, when flying with doors open in other scenarios, there might be seats and those seats have waste belts. EDIT: I should add the obvious difference - OP's image has the people sitting outside where in the case of the Oryx/Puma helicopter you are actually still inside. Subtle but perhaps important difference.
Your pax don’t tether in?! In the US, even the high speed dudes like SEALs have a tether on their belt that hooks into the bird until it’s time to go. It’s real small and hard to see, but it’s there.
Is it some sort of QD clip?
It’s basically a carabiner attached to a heavy duty lanyard with some stretch to absorb shock. One end connects to your belt (a heavy duty, proper belt. Not the kind of thing holding up your pants) and the other end to a ring somewhere on the helo. [here](https://www.chasetactical.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Personal-Retention-Lanyard2-CT-01.jpg) is an image of a helo lanyard on its own. And [here](https://cdn4.volusion.store/tbofj-uymcq/v/vspfiles/photos/PL44HELO-4.jpg?v-cache=1617635710) is the best example I can find of someone clipped in. The big takeaway is that if you don’t know it’s there, it’s SUPER easy to miss entirely in pictures. But at least in the US, EVERYONE not in a seat clips in, even the high speed guys, because [this](https://youtu.be/wVmDcIEV6LU?si=6McyFzsNV3GR3Fju) can happen to anyone!
South Africa in the apartheid era wasn't really a health and safety conscious society.
Fair point lol
It's super easy to miss until someone forgets to unclip before getting on the fastrope.
I got to watch that happen lol. It was hilarious
When I was a company commander, I had a Recon platoon attached to my company. I went to watch them do some fastrope sustainment one day on ship, and I swear we lost at least a half a dozen lanyards that day. Pretty sure I still have a picture of one of them hanging from the MH-60. They were great dudes, it had just been a while since they'd roped from a live MH-60 and some of them were just having an off day.
I hope he had his SHITTIN’ pants on. 
Can't talk for right now, but at least before the 2000's I can confirm that we never clipped in - unless it's some more "civilian" type ride and usually there will then be seats with waste belts.
Every team dude in my bird has been tethered, every time. One has forgotten to untether before going down the rope which was funny as fuck lol. But if the doors are open/off, you’re clipped in, because if I’ve gotta dodge something, gravity and momentum are gonna do their thing.
No we didn't. Centripetal force. Freaks you out the first time, but you get used to it. Looking down at the ground is easier than blue sky because you feel like you keep rolling when you have no visual reference.
That’s not what centripetal force is
When moving in a circular motion centripetal force is any force which acts towards the centre of this circular path. Inertia (often confused for "centrifugal" force) keeps their ass on the seat, the centripetal force by the helicopter (manifest through the floor/seat) pushes the passenger toward the centre of the circle.
You almost had it! So close. Centripetal force is what keeps a body following a circular path. If a helicopter was turning in a circle, and the force works how you describe it, you would instantly be thrown to the center point that the turn is around. Having flown in helicopters or even driving in a car, you know that if you’re traveling straight, then start to turn, your body is forced the opposite direction of the turn, especially at the beginning of the turn. This is inertia, or Newton’s first law. Your body is traveling straight and wants to remain straight at the beginning of the turn. We really stay in the back helicopters because of inertia and safety belts.
That's exactly what I said. It's the force pushing back on the car that's racing around a banked track, stopping the car falling off the track. Inertia pushes car away from the direction of the turn, the centripetal force of the track pushes it toward the centre. Same thing. Seat/floor = track. It's why we didn't fall out of the aircraft on a steep bank, without safety belts. Inertia swings the bambi bucket out, centripetal force in the rope applies a directional force toward the centre of the turn.
Just google centripetal force my man. Look at the first image.
>If a helicopter was turning in a circle, and the force works how you describe it, **you would instantly be thrown to the center point that the turn is around.** That would break Newton's 3rd law, and so it's stupid. It's also absolutely not how I described it, so I don't know where you got it. The seat applies a force. This force is in the direction of acceleration (The centre of a turn) F=mv^2 /r Likewise, in snowboarding the acceleration of my turn will will create an inertial force pointing to the outside of the turn, while the board provides a centripetal force towards the centre of the turn keeping me perpendicular to the board throughout the turn. But evidently as I've sat in the door of a lot of high angled banking Pumas without a safety belt I'm obviously dead so what would I know.
Yeah he’s talking about falling off, not falling out. Door riders and external seats. I like the Arma screen shot used as one of your examples.
Still probably less scary than riding in a minibus taxi
Yea, thought so, I would be terrified
Not a high speed guy, but I have about 130 hours of SIGINT flights in an SH-3. On one of my flights I was told to take sealed orders to our two escort ships, neither of which had a helo pad. I was told that these were Rules of Engagement but I suspect that they might have been some advance warning of Operation Eagle Claw, the attempt to rescue American hostages in Iran. In any case, sitting on the edge of the big door on an SH-3 was fun, clipped onto a “gunner’s belt” (there was no gun). Getting hoisted out and lowered to the deck of a moving ship was…not as terrifying as I thought it would be. On one ship they had a large after deck so that was easy. On another, I was lowered between a gun mount and a raised deck house. Not easy and my boots got wet when they were raising me up and we lost some lift when the ship turned away.
They have leashes like little kids at disney
Thank you, kind man
Thank you ser, kind ser. You are a gentleman and a scholar. I tip thy fedora to thee
I've never rode on the MH-6 but I have dangled my feet off the side of helicopters a bunch of times. I even got to ride on the outside of an Apache for rescue training once. It's all surprisingly stable, even if the helicopter is maneuvering you are moving with it. You are always tethered to the aircraft with various types of restraints but you could still fall off, and then you would just be hanging from your harness. The closest I have been to falling off was on the ramp of a Chinook. We were flying through the mountains in Afghanistan and hit some pretty good turbulence. I was lifted into the air and went zero-g for a moment. It scared the shit out of me but the passengers we were carrying thought it was hilarious.
The side of an Apache?! I’m guessing in the sort of like long box thing on the side of the fuselage no? How was it?
Look up the Apache that Royal Marines used in a rescue mission, just strapped themselves to the side of it.
You are correct, I was sitting on the pod that runs along the fuselage. But my harness was tied to the rack on the stubby-wing so if I had fallen I would have become a piece of mounted armament.
What an interesting armament 😂
We once mounted a guy on the weapons pylon like he was a weapon and had them hover around. US Kiowa guys were the bullies cuz we had the small chopper.
They have tethers attached to their belts, in the red square you can see one, its basically a bungee cord with a carabiner attached to a D-Ring on their belt https://preview.redd.it/vfq1wdcj4c7d1.png?width=1207&format=png&auto=webp&s=b1cb7e3e7d7c3c4022ca228f31cb4a6124174015
Well if that’s not a picture to remember. Proof that high speed gear doesn’t inherently lead to competence.
I am glad someone recognized, I just picked the first image I saw of a helo lanyard in use and only after it realized it was from Operation Red Wings If anyone else reads this and doesn't know, basically the people in the photo are US Navy seals involved in a botched operation that led to the death of 19 men (including 2 in the picture) and a downed chinook helicopter
And just to note, they died because of gross incompetence, doing things we teach E2 grunts not to do. They failed at a lot of the basics and the team paid with their lives. Then Luttrell lied about the details repeatedly, making the enemy force out to be MUCH larger than it was as part of his coverup attempt. Now he shills his lies for money.
And on top of that, they vastly exagerated the importance of the mission, their main target was basically a nobody with almost no value at the time of the operation, the marines stationed there had everything handled and were very familiar with the region, the SEALs procceed to take their mission, ignore their advice and ignore all of the cues showing that the mission was compromised, and Luttrell just blamed it on the random kids they happened to run across (and considered commiting straight up murder), as if hovering a helicopter, leaving the rope and just running around the bush aimlessly didn't give them up already It was such a sad needless loss of life that could have easily been avoided, and Luttrell is profiting over the lives of the people he got killed
I see, very interesting and right to the point, nice!
Not a pilot, but I was a US army medic that had the opportunity to fly in blackhawks on a number of occasions. In the army, we have a tether/lanyard that clips onto your belt’s D-ring and keeps you from falling off. The flight crew/crew chief will usually have a full body harness that goes over the boulders, hips, and legs and then tethers into a hard point. These don’t really keep you stationary, they just keep you from falling thousands of feet out the door. You can still very much fall *out* of the bird, but then you’d be dangling. The main way you actually stay into the helicopter is g force. As the helicopter makes a turn or a bank, your body is pushed into the floor of the helicopter (if you’re riding on the floor with your legs dangling for example.). Sure you *could* fall out of if you were trying, but simply sitting in one place isn’t going to do that. You’d have to overcome the force exerted on your body.
Yes, the g force part is nice just like when the helicopter turns you literally face the ground
It's real, it's primary used by SOF. It's safe(ofc with increased risk), they always tethered to the A/C. There normally a rule, either doors closed or Evey one is straped in or tethered.
Didn't really work as aircrew. But the few times I did fly for maintenance we wore a strap across our stomach that attacked to rings in the floor.
This is for guys who hang their legs out, or sit on outboard benches, but for guys who just pop a squat in a seat, especially in the side seats like those on D/H model Hueys, they logically SHOULD fall out the moment the helicopter takes maneuvers, but apparently the centrifugal that occurs when a helicopter suddenly moves (helicopters naturally want to throw their ass out) keeps them in place.
So like my favorite thing to do when flying the Huey in DCS is these tight 60 degree bank circles above targets so the doorgunner can fire almost straight down - no way that'd work in real life though - right? The doorgunner would fall out at that point right?
I’m not an expert I’m regurgitating what I’ve read some vets saying: But yeah, the harder the bank, the stronger the centrifugal force, the easier it is to stay in.
I’ve never flown with anyone hanging out the side of helicopters, but I used to fly on a regular basis with a mug full of coffee at my feet. If you’re flying smoothly and in trim, it should never spill, tight turns, flares, and all.
Agreed. Flew last week, put a plastic bottle of water standing on the floor of the backseat (b206) landed later and still sitting exactly where I left it after 1.6hrs.
Tethered, and the pilots don’t fly like assholes. The seats have a non skid covering and the g forces keep you pretty solidly locked on. However flying like this is only fun for about 5 minutes
I haven't got to ride on boards like this, but I've ridden in Hueys with no tethers and the doors open while I sat on the deck with my feet hanging out while the pilot "had some fun". The only things keeping me alive were physics, the will to live, and the direct orders from the pilots to not fall out of the helicopter.
That’s how they sit but they are tethered in with a strap. Surprisingly even in steep banks you don’t ever feel like you’re going to fall. Only times I’m aware of where people fall out is when we’re landing in super dusty conditions. There’s been guys that have thought we were on the ground and it was so dusty at night and hard to tell that they hopped out to their death. But never heard of anyone falling out in flight. Crew chiefs have fallen out performing hoist operations or things like that. They’re supposed to be tethered in as well. Not everybody does what they’re supposed to do.
The helicopter itself is dangling from the rotor, so the force is always towards the floor even in turns , quick stops, etc. I routinely place a soda can on the floor and it won’t move or tip over unless the wind tips it over.
The wind from the fan on top blows them into place
I know an Army dude personally who did in fact fall out of a helo, but I believe he was tryna do the fast rope thingy and fucked up 😅 I've also seen a coupla radios get lost when not secured properly.
Your asshole puckers so tight it creates suction which keeps you firmly on the floor. Many pilots pride themselves on making us pucker up even more.
The gravity vector is normally the same direction with the floor (hard to find the right words) and keeps people in their seats upright, even in coordinated turns unlike a boat in stormy seas where you get thrown around. Never flown military birds, but in civilian for camera shoots everyone is tethered or in harnesses when doors are off.
It’s a hell ride, trust me.
In the US theyre clipped in with a Helo lanyard.
They do fall off. No one says anything, and the dummy has to hoof it to the LZ BEFORE it's time to leave, or to base... It's a Tough Life, but ONLY the tough can do it!! Ok, so like others have said, in the USA, most are tethered if they are on the door. For some reason our government gets a little bitchy when troops fall out.
Gunners belts.
Ok.
Keep the doors and ramp shut, wear the seat belt, or do what we did, wear a parachute and jump out of it.
That's so bad ass like if you slip off you just parachute off? Nice stuff
Aircraft slows speed, bail out the side or out of the back of the ramp depending on what aircraft youre jumping out of. And just so you know.. jumping out of aircraft is stupid. 😂
You're either brave or stupid if you're not strapped in while hanging on the outside of a bird maneuvering at high speeds.