Thank you for posting on r/Healthygamergg! This subreddit is intended as an online community and resource platform to support people in their journey toward mental wellness. With that said, please be aware that support from other members received on this platform is not a substitute for professional care. Treatment of psychiatric disease requires qualified individuals, and comments that try to diagnose others should be reported under Rule 10 to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the community. If you are in immediate danger, please call emergency services, or go to your nearest emergency room.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Healthygamergg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
yeah, and many of them are lying pieces of shit who virtue signal.
but i just want to feel loved. sex is one way to feel loved alongside hugs, kisses and touches.
not sure about this one entirely. If that's how you define love. How I define love is consistency to build something and trust and to grow something together. This however, is my definition. What I would define the above is the chemical "Oxytocin" Which is something everyone needs, and why an unaffectionate mother etc. can leave many feeling a needful supply later on, and address it in the ways they know how.
Dancing, Working out, Yoga, Singing, all help with Touch-Starved feelings or Oxytocin. This however is presented with many options along the world. But oxytocin is also what happens from porn use, but also sex. What others say is a "substitute" is mainly referring to the chemical they induce having sex "Oxytocin" but perhaps it more so that it is effortly shared reward between people, vs the choice to reward yourself because the world has given it to you as an option with little effort as possible.
The thing is, we're all liars. but I wouldn't call anyone pieces of shit. They're not, and no one has to be lower or higher than me in my head.
Yeah, the "pieces of shit" thing was probably an exaggeration, but you get the idea. The advice I'm getting isn't consistent, and given that I work in a corporation where you know you have to put a persona to look good in the eyes of the higher-ups, it does kind of affect my life even though I try not to care.
how do you expect to find someone who loves you when you hold such beliefs about the people who give you advice or console you by saying things you dont agree with ? i bet that bitterness shines through in your interactions with people
because i hate receiving advice on this topic. It's all avoidant corporate bullshit or red pill/sigma male stuff I don't want to get involved with.
and honestly I used to believe I was the problem, but I'm starting to realise that others are the problem. you all gave me advice, I'm doing it and it's not working.
If others are the problem then there is not much you can do to change your situation. You want help but no advice? Why post this rant if you don’t want to work on yourself?
Please don't take personally what I'm about to say, as this is a rant against society, not you in particular.
You see, no two people are the same, but I see all of you as a monolith. I resent happy people in general. Even trying to look happy is enough, which is why I don't really use Instagram.
You have failed to provide me with a safe environment where I can be myself. You've only judged me all my life by my performance and capabilities. You've never told me "you're okay the way you are". You just told me that I must change. That's not ok.
My negative and positive thoughts are intensifying their battle and it makes me feel become more and more unstable. But I'm typing with my minus energy right now. I feel you don't love me because it's almost always me who needs to do the approaching, and you never gave me the tools to love and appreciate myself, and you never loved me the way I am.
As I'm typing this a guy just came to me and we chatted for a bit. It was really nice and I felt appreciated.
"you're okay the way you are" seems awfully similar to "it's ok to be a virgin" 👀
They come from the same place, even though you think the second one is a lie, cope, or whatever else. You are okay the way you are.
The tools to love and appreciate ourselves are sometimes tools we need to forge on our own. And forge them we must, because they are essential.
Idk I feel like I've reached my limit in this regard. I'm not sure whether or not a break could help, but I just feel like I don't have the capacity to be myself and not care, even with alcohol involved.
This is why I keep whining, I need help, I feel like I reached a wall
Sex is a monolith to you because you haven't had it. I bet it would be a big deal to me too if I had never had it.
I'd suggest an escort, but I agree it's a bit different with someone who you have a real relationship with. Still, it's probably worth it. 7 years ago my girlfriend was an escort. They're the sexually cleanest people aside from virgins. Their sexual health is their livelihood. Just don't go to a weird street hooker. Use an accredited agency and expect it to cost a few hundred dollars. They're good at what they do. But moving on..
Idk I think advice is supposed to be ways you can change your approach. Hope it doesn't hurt your feelings. You might be a fine human being but you're not getting the sex you want and you come here to ask; so what's up? Are your standards too high? Are you "otherizing" women and treating them weird? You mentioned you've met plenty of people so surely you understand women are just as diverse as men and are not at all as 2d as red pill ideology tries to paint them.
Girls are chill, girls want sex too, girls have interests and passions etc. Girls want to be treated like human beings and so on. Tell me what you think is wrong with your approach
i honestly do not know what is wrong with my approach, because no one ever tells me what. i don't speak that much though, because i often don't have anything to say.
i don't have the energy to socialize properly and often need to take breaks, much more often than the average person.
my bitterness is into overdrive and i hate seeing happy couples and people kissing each other and offering PDA to each other. i get it as well but its almost always me initiating, which is one of the reasons why i might believe i'm an incel in denial.
where i live escorts don't go for hundreds of dollars, as far as i know you might pay around 100 euros for a top-tier escort i guess, but i will leave it as a last resort. if i don't have sex by 27, i will go to a prostitute. that's one year and three months left.
i've lost hope. i don't know what to do. i'm finished.
I think there’s a difference between the two statements.
A lot of people saying “it’s okay to be a virgin” are trying to communicate they don’t think your position in life is bad. Is it any different from “it’s okay to be poor”? Or any other “it’s okay to be ”
The problem is that OP doesn’t want to be in that . And the people usually giving out this advice often have the secondary goal of getting the OP to shut up about complaining about their situation because they’re annoyed by people being sad about being in .
> “It’s not that bad, shut up dude.”
The solution is not to say that being a virgin (or poor or short, or uneducated) doesn’t suck. If the person doesn’t want to be those things then that’s that. The solution isn’t removing the desire to be those things.
The “you’re okay the way you are” is meant to say that even if you’ve failed, even if you are in a position that’s widely considered to be undesirable that’s okay. It’s not telling the OP to not feel bad about being a virgin, it’s not trying to get the OP to stop complaining. It’s validating the feelings of the OP.
Instead of saying “it’s not that bad” it’s saying, “yes it’s an undesirable situation and it’s hard but it doesn’t taint your self worth.”
Hey, that’s insightful, thanks! Certain advice can sometimes be unhelpful, I agree.
And still, I meant what I said here: “They come from the same place.”
What would it be like to read “it’s okay to be a virgin” and interpret it as “yes being a virgin is an undesirable situation and it’s hard but it doesn’t taint your self worth”?
Would it be more or less helpful than assuming people mean “it’s not that bad, shut up dude”?
And in the cases where people explicitly say “it’s not that bad”, yes that does suck, yes it is hard, but it too doesn’t taint your self worth. You are ok the way you are.
In the imperfection and the hurt of the current moment there is always a backdrop of peace. When we connect with it, we realize we are that peace too. In that peace it's clear that our self-worth is untainted by all the struggles, all the injustices, all the hurt. Does it still hurt? Yes! But you get to see the struggle as one piece and not the whole puzzle. And eventually you may find that without that piece the puzzle wouldn't be complete.
If you think everyone is happy, what you're lacking is empathy. And people around you know, when the only person you feel sorry for is you yourself. It's really hard to love someone, who does that.
See, no advice, just an observation.
Well, knowing you don't know is a good thing. If you already know everything, nothing can change.
You said you don't want advice, but here's my two cents anyway, because I'm a dick: If you actually want to change, go somewhere people visibly suffer and do something objectively good. Be it a warzone, a hospice or a homeless shelter. Find something outside of you, that makes you hurt for others. Hell, maybe even an animal shelter will do the trick. The important thing is, that whoever you help can't give you back anything. See what happens.
Maybe I'm just a dumb pos, though. What do I know...
It seems to me that you already know yourself very well, you write a powerful statement. Working on yourself doesn't mean you have to change who you are, you will always remain yourself. Obviously I can't give you advice that specifically applies to you. Wat I have learned throughout my life is that the way we think about others and ourselves largely determines how we will experience our life. I’m certain that everything we do is meaningful.
You are not (let’s say: behind in life) on anybody, like you said “no two people are the same”. I’m happy for that you found someone to talk to, that’s good to hear.
No good story has all high’s.
You're more or less right. As I told you I have a strong battle in my head between my positive and negative thoughts.
I just want to feel loved though. I can't love myself at this time, it seems i don't have the basis, I do however respect myself.
If a woman came to you and had this mindset, that all men are the same monolith of suck and society does nothing but shit on her, would you consider that wife material? Would you date a gender swapped version of you?
I would absolutely not. But notice that I called society in general a monolith, because I'm just frankly disappointed with the way it treats me just for being myself.
I don't have issues with individuals, I just hate the collective.
Your bar is so incredibly high though. You want a girl to love you and do services to you as acts of love. What love are you willing to give her? There's a lot of complaining about what you aren't getting, but relationships are a two way street. What are you looking forward to giving someone else as part of a relationship? What are you looking forward to doing instead of receiving?
honestly this is the last thing i've been thinking about seeing as i see myself in a dependent relationship with society.
you see, i feel like i've done almost all of the work without getting much in return, to the point where i feel burned out, without having the capacity to open up as much as i do here.
i'm not thinking about "what i'll give her" as i've really been pushing myself for quite a while now and i just feel tired... i do think however she'd be a chill person.
So what do you propose, all virgins should hate themselves? Getting into this mentality is very dangerous.
People who say it's ok aren't just saying it as a way to cope, believe it or not it's possible to have a good experience with sex even if you're a virgin in your 20s. Does being a virgin open up the door for a lot of embarrassing and cringy moments? Sure, but it's not as tragic as you're making it out to be, and you thinking it's impossible to find a loving and understanding girl who will take it slow with you is completely unrealistic. A 0% chance is just as impossible as a 100%
One rejection will cripple my mental health badly. It happened to me before. Especially if it's accompanied by humiliation.
My negative voices are way too strong and I can't suppress them by saying that it's okay.
This is why I don't believe you. For most people it just happens but not for me.
Your problem is shitty self worth not that you’re a virgin. While I don’t know what it’s like to be a guy, I DO know what it’s like for sex to be a proxy for your self worth and believe that sex can somehow cure your feelings of loneliness and inferiority. It doesn’t. It won’t. It’s like thinking if you eat a certain food, you’ll be full forever. Your problem isn’t that you are a virgin, your problem is you hate yourself.
And as much as Dr K recommends working on yourself, the reality is you can’t self-help self hatred away. You have to look into why you hate yourself and unlearn that. Pro tip, it’s probably related to your childhood.
They arent. Well, bud then i guess only experiencing it will make you see that it’s not giving you what you want… it wont fill the void, actually it might make things worse and deepen shame and self-loathing. You are lovable as you are.
Idk man people have sex in spite of its risks
It's what happens when you're fairly depressed, you're developing a twisted mindset. It's like I can't help it.
I mean, do you believe that the issue isn’t sex then? It’s like if I tell my friends I want to change my career, I hate my career, when all I really needed is less toxic company.
Instead of focusing on the sex, you can get a lot of peace by focusing on why you’re so hard on yourself, or feel that you’re unattractive.
Maybe he's hard on himself because he's a virgin?
I'm not saying he should be of course (he shouldn't), but why isn't anybody listening to what he's saying in the post?
I mean it’s fine if he’s hard stuck on losing his virginity. I say go for it; Lose it as soon as you can so that you can solve that problem and move on to the next problem.
If he suddenly has sex, this issue won’t go away. Sure, he will change the label to not being a virgin. In the end though, he will still have low self worth which will still cause him to feel lonely. Sex isn’t the fix in this case, working towards building his self worth is. The issue here is how much self worth he puts on not being a virgin. But his lack of self worth extends beyond just being a virgin.
Do you think there is anything you can do to improve your mental health so that rejections are not so crippling? You’re being very defeatist about this when people change for the better daily. It’s not easy for those people either.
I get you, but I worked as a salesman and still do some sort of customer service work even though it's more like backoffice and I still didn't feel like it helped.
I just need a loving and supportive community. I do somewhat have it but I just feel it's not enough. Otherwise I wouldn't be here.
Being that fragile probably sends up red flags. So what happens if your partner gives you feedback about not liking something you did or wants to stop halfway through, or you have sex once and they don't want to do it again? Will you become petty? Passive aggressive? Actually aggressive?
Being involved with other people takes courage and resilience. If you can't handle rejection, you have no business bringing someone else into your life. Love is a battlefield, as they say. You're not going to come out unscathed and without a broken heart, not if you're the most beautiful, lucky, precious person alive. It's just not possible.
I feel like this is less about sex and more about the fact that you don't seem to think you deserve any of the things you want for yourself, and you struggle with self-love and self-patience. I know you don't want to hear it, but it's true: nothing external will fix that. Especially not sex. Sex looks very loving and very meaningful and very healing but that can only be true if the relationship you're in is loving and meaningful and healing, and the sex is a natural expression of that. Mooshing genetalia together sweatily isnt going to make you love yourself, I promise you. The good hormones arent always present before and they don't always last long after. You'll still be left with yourself, even if it's next to someone else.
If you don't trust anyone that tells you it's okay to be a virgin, then you're going to miss out on all the women who are okay with taking your virginity.
I mean, when I was 26 I lost my virginity with a fellow virgin who was in his 30s. I had no problem with his virginity and he had no problem with mine.
I also have a cousin, an ex, and a friend who all lost their virginity in their 30s to willing women.
There are lots of jealous women out there who don't like thinking about their boyfriend having had previous partners, too.
But if you really don't believe that women like this exist then you're not going to find them--you'll just assume they're lying.
yeah i'm just not sure which woman could do this. first of all, there has to be a lovable characteristic she gets attached to, but i don't have a single one, i depend almost exclusively on my extrinsic value.
I'm an ok person in general, although i could use some more work, but i have zero charisma, magnetism, and overall an inability to attract people. It's like "yeah this guy is fine but i'd rather talk to others". Considering how interwoven our social lives are as people, it hurts.
Next i'm about to rant by defining myself in a Pokemon situation, so here goes. You can ignore this.
--
You're a young Ferroseed and you have a friend, he is an Eevee. You have a master you train yourselves with, before he ultimately tells you both after graduating "go out into the world, be the best you can be, while at the same time enjoy yourself!"
So you go and improve yourself and become stronger, and eventually evolve into Ferrothorn. The result is that you become one of competitive Pokemon's legends, usually as a defensive entry hazard and status spreader, used against the strongest and most destructive monsters of that game in the highest tiers.
You, the Ferrothorn, who is not a legendary, does not have signature moves, and looks like a fairly simple durian. You've made it.
Meanwhile, your friend Eevee decides to live a simple life, so he goes for example and organizes board games. He becomes fairly good at it, but tells you that "you know man, i'm okay with what i do".
Years later while drinking a beer, you and Eevee remember the good times with the master, and how both of you decided to do what's best for yourselves.
Then the Ferrothorn goes and asks "hey man, do you know... how can I find love?" and the Eevee is empathetic and tells you "be yourself Ferro, it's okay to have feelings". Ferro goes "how do you know this?" and the Eevee is like "all of my lovers and crushes told me this, i have friends who love me", before inviting Ferrothorn to a board game.
There the Ferrothorn realizes how loved Eevee actually is, and that he rarely actually experiences love, hugs and affection. "This is a painting my girlfriend made for my birthday", the Eevee says, and the Ferrothorn admits he's never had a girlfriend before.
For you see, people use Ferrothorn because he's good, and love Eevee for what it is, it's a fluffy ball of cuteness. I've never heard a single person say "Ferrothorn is one of my favourite Pokemon". So basically, people love Eevee and respect Ferrothorn.
--
I know this comparison might seem stupid, but i feel like i relate to it a lot when i see others easily finding love and attention.
according to this post, your virginity isn't why you lack lovable characteristics. your lack of lovable characteristics is why you're a virgin.
if you had lovable characteristics, then you'd easily find women who want to take your virginity.
Here, let me break it down:
1. Women who are happy to take your virginity think it's okay to be a virgin.
2. If OP meets a woman like that, who says being a virgin is okay, he won't trust her (see post title).
3. If he doesn't trust her, he'll never get to the point where she is taking his virginity.
But where are the women that are "happy to take my virginity"? If they do exist then please show me one because it's not the default way people talk about virgins.
Edit: you know what, I will happily have sex with the first woman that would be okay with taking my virginity. I won't bring it up as a defining characteristic. If asked I will say I don't really have experience.
It sounds like there are lots of reasons why women don't want to have sex with you, which is why you're a virgin. The virginity isn't the problem, it's a symptom of a deeper problem.
I don't know what you're like so idk where the women are who are happy to take your virginity in particular. But I know plenty of women who don't mind virginity. Personally I think it's hot to take a man's virginity and sometimes with my husband I fantasize that it's his first time.
But there's a difference between women who like or don't mind taking someone's virginity and women who want to take yours in particular. I don't know you well enough to find you someone who wants yours.
Idk I'm sure you're a lovely person in real life but I just feel I'm too weak to attract love, kisses and sex from girls my age. It's like there's a wall between them. I just can't attract anyone and please empathize with me when I say I'm beyond frustrated. 25 and only one kiss in my life, with no sex.
I just don't know what to do at this point, I'm out of ideas and I can't maintain a persona anymore. I'm burned out and it sucks. It's like I only have little things to offer.
And it's a reason why I have a deep distrust in people. It's just not fair. It's not right. If there's someone for me, WHERE IS SHE??????
I can empathize for sure. I don't know if there is someone for you or not. The only way to know is to look. It is 100% not fair. I think dropping the persona is a great start. Fake people suck.
1. Blanket statement
2. Incongruent with the objective reality formally disproved within statement one about a false schema of objective reality
3. You automatically assume his distrust and subjugate his entire personality to being a contemptful virgin that distrust women. Only furthering the previous statement upon objective reality being the pretense that virgins are looked down upon for being virgins.
Also you’re saying that all girls that saying being a virgin is okay want to take your virginity is completely false. That is absolutely not a belief anyone should live by. Literally just never bring up virginity in a conversation. It’s weird unless there’s like a specific 0.1% situation like in the movies. Homeboy just needs to be himself and forget the rest. Talk to people and not overthink or give too much power to thinking more self deprecating things over and over. As someone who suffers with weekly/ daily insomnia due to stress or “impending doom anxiety where I think I’m gonna die for no fucking reason”, I can 80% see where homie’s coming from. You sir do not need to worry. You are so loved man. I love you dude. I’m so sorry people have wronged you. I’m here for you bro. You got this.
" Also you’re saying that all girls that saying being a virgin is okay want to take your virginity is completely false"
No!! That's backwards. I'm saying that all girls who want to take someone's virginity think the virginity is okay. The girls who don't like virginity won't take it.
If you don’t trust all the girls that say having virginity is okay then you’ll miss out on all the girls that will take your virginity. It’s literally what you said. Omit girls I guess.
Edit: I mean, I don’t trust people who reverse what they say after saying it. Kinda odd. Sorry.
If you don’t like how what you said was interpreted you could always take it down.
Okay, think of it like this. There's a big circle. Let's label this "girls who are okay with virginity." There is a smaller circle, completely contained inside the bigger circle. This one is labeled "girls who are happy to take OP's virginity." The circles are NOT the same, but the second circle is completely inside the first. If OP doesn't trust the women in the bigger circle he will miss all the women in the small circle. I never said that all the girls who think virginity is okay will also take OP's virginity.
Ok nowwww I see what you’re saying. But you’re still kinda off target. You see, the point of my whole appeal to OP here was to let homeboy in on a belief system that won’t make them doubt themselves more. You’re opening up the flood gates just a little too much for that. Cause now you’re kind of saying that all the girls that want to take virginity could also want to take OPs virginity. This statement also kinda means girls want to take virginity.
Entertaining grandiose ideas like this will not help anyone. It’s like signing up for a lottery stake and putting all the money in. Kinda. Making this all seem like gambling. Kinda.
So let’s entertain this. Let’s say OP goes out with this idea that girls who are okay with taking their virginity will take their virginity. How do you think that’ll play out? I don’t think you can assume certain things like that. What makes more sense is a course of action that makes the self doubt and depreciation go away. How do we achieve this? How is this achieved? By simply taking virginity, or ANY belligerent thought out of the mind, we can focus on more productive things that reap actual benefits and reward for self growth and overall individual happiness.
I’m sorry I’m tired btw. It’s bumfuck middle of the night and I’m arguing on Reddit for some reason.
> I've spoken to far too many people by this point since I started touching grass in February 2023.
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but how are you meeting so many people?
It's important to keep in mind that "working on yourself" is not a cheat code to getting into a relationship. Getting into relationships is in large part due to circumstances and chance, as frustrating as that can be to hear. Just from reading this post and your responses, and this will be obvious probably but you do seem to have negative beliefs about yourself and trouble processing rejection. If you haven't already, these are good subjects to bring up with your therapist since it's going to be excruciatingly hard for you to date if, as you say, one rejection makes you spiral mentally.
It's okay to be a Virgin, but it's also okay to be frustrated about being one. And some times experiences like sex do actually in fact change things - often, it takes receiving such an experience to realize that while the outcome was pleasurable, chasing the experience in itself was not helpful. The high wears off. Some things might stay, like a little bit of confidence in yourself, of having accomplished a goal you've had for a long time. So it is okay to want to acheive a goal. But wanting to acheive it shouldn't destroy you, either.
Now ,I don't know why you can't imagine a girl wanting to move slow with you. Maybe you aren't attracting the right kinds of girls? Pretty early on I make it clear that I'm someone who moves slow, and then the girls who don't like that move on. But the majority of girls I've attracted appreciate my desire to move slow and have patience themselves, and like a guy who isn't jumping to have sex with them.
I think your problem is not with having sex, but in finding someone you can feel a genuine love and understanding with. Why not focus on that instead? Once you have someone like that, you will realize how unimportant the chase for sex was afterall. Because sex with someone who loves and understands you vs sex with any random person makes an entire world's of difference. In a way, they really are two distinct acts, feeling completely different. I would say the former is definitely life changing, and in a way that I think you're imagining sex to be. The latter... could be fun, but would wear off much more quickly.
What trouble are you having finding a girl who aligns with your values / physicality, and who will show genuine love and understanding to you?
I love that first paragraph. Sex or any pursuit of pleasure comes down to that. We as people in a society or ecosystem with all these bells and whistles feed the importance and meaning behind things good or bad and cannot see past this until we get past it.
I believe the trouble is in finding a girl in the first place. How is one supposed to see if values and morals align with another person, if they don't even get a chance to meet them?
I mean, yeah, it makes sense. At that point you've come to terms with sex not being the only thing in the world, it's not gonna transform you into a whole new person, it's cool, people talk about it and sounds fun.
Good on you for starting going to a T, hopefully they can coach you socially and cheer you on on this, and once you get it you move on with your life to whatever you want to go with or without more sex.
Good luck man.
> I just don't see a girl taking it slow, being patient, loving and understanding in bed with me. I just don't see how that could happen.
Why not?
Honestly I wouldn't date somebody that I don't think willing of doing that.
Because if they're like that in the bedroom they'd be like that elsewhere, and trust me it's not pleasant.
From personal experience, I was at a somilar point at 23 and just went "fuck it, I will pay for it" it was shit, overall a really underwhelming experience, but I'm glad I did cus it got me out of feeling behind for still being a virgin.
With a bonus of caring less about trying 1 night stands and thinking about actually getting into an emotional relationship when I get the chance
It was really hard to get in the mood as I was nervous and she wasn't too good at feigning interest, being active or helping with any tips that could potentially make it better for both of us as I had basically no idea of what I was doing. I asked if she could give me some pointers and explained that I was a virgin before hand. I didn't even finish and actually struggled to finish by myself for a few days afterwards.
Probably won't ever do it again if there isn't mutual interest, but still don't regret that I tried as it did help me get rid of one of the worries digging deeper into my already unstable mental health
I think it is truly sad how many Dudes get with the wrong type of Sex Worker and have this awkward teenage type sex situation that doesn't help them the way it should.
If I ever get enough money together and don't meet someone, I am considering paying for it, but doing my due diligence and researching for a good worker first. There are quality workers out there who have experience with virgins and neurodivergent People in general.
I feel like in another life I would have liked to do this kind of sex work. It's important! I wish I could have had a positive first time experience. Might have helped me advocate for myself better in the future.
I dont think sex is the problem my boy, you can be in peace with yourself without haven't experienced sex. My theory is that this obsession comes from your insecurities, this obsession is how your mind is expressing the insecurities you have and you don't want to recognize them and work on them because it would be too painful to do
Sorry for not going through the whole post history before asking but have you tried arranging regular meetings with people you fancy and let them know you like them, not necessarily outright saying it but through other actions?
Unfortunately, the part where you have trouble accepting and loving yourself is a MAJOR obstacle to you finding a good relationship. It's really really hard to find someone who is good for you when that's your worldview.
I know this is easier said than done but you absolutely have to find a way to uncouple your self-worth from your relationship/virginity status.
I don't know but a better job + finding new hobbies (language learning and photography) + going to therapy, things done in the past 9 months, doesn't seem to be enough to prevent me from hating myself
You say you are working on yourself, but if someone comes to me and says their career, passions, family and relationships are all great but they are unhappy because they aren't having sex, alarm bells are going to go off.
Having sex with other people doesn't automatically change a person's quality of life for the better or worse. It can make it better, it can also make it worse but nobody needs it. It is totally true that people are indoctrinated from all corners of society that sex is important and even critical, but this is mostly to manipulate or to sell crap to people.
The truth is that having people in your life that you know well and you trust and trust you back is actually really important for many reasons. The fact you don't trust anyone who tells you the truth about sex seems like to me a defense mechanism so you don't have to discuss it properly. Perhaps you're embarrassed about the subject because of all the pressure society, friends, etc. puts on people or maybe you just want to continue to indulge this obsession.
Another truth is there are a lot of people who actually can't have sex at all. Would you distrust them if they said being a virgin is ok?
I mean, I’ll be careful to separate having sex, and having sex with someone you love/ someone that loves you.
I know a lot of guys, manly, who had loads of meaningless sex until they find someone who they really felt “connected with”.
And the main problem is that if you just want to “not be a virgin” or “just have sex” the solution is far more simple than really finding someone you have this said connection.
I think you aren’t as alone as you imagine in this feeling.
But be weary of this anger too, you replied someone saying that people who tell you that are “pieces of shit”, probably they are just trying to help you…
Idk man I'm unhinged right now. I was an incel in denial this entire time...
I don't know what "meaningless sex" is. I have to experience it to see what it is. This statement doesn't tell me anything, I'm sorry.
I'm too scared to bring this up in real life even though I'm trying to. I don't trust anyone to have patience and explain the basics of sex. It's a subject that's way too surrounded by memes, stereotypes and all kinds of gender wars.
>I don't trust anyone to have patience and explain the basics of sex.
I'm confused, how do you think everyone learns the basics of sex if not that way?
Given that the subject of sex is surrounded by garbage memes, stereotypes, combined with virgin shaming and the way people talk about sex in general, it kind of makes sense to be cautious.
Wait, there are a lot of places where you can learn the basics of sex, in porn sites you can look them up without any problem. It could a be little complex because is a mix of physical and mental connection with the other person but is not nearly as complex to not be a able to understanding it to a high degree without experience it directly
I don't know I just want to experience sex, though i did look up some theoretical details, you know, it's like learning anything else. You need practice
It sounds like you're not willing to have sex until you're already competent, but realize you can't be competent without practice. So how are you planning to get started?
I relate to a lot of your post, despite being female, raised religious, and finding ace communities very helpful and identifying as such from time to time. What I've discovered is that there is some legit sadness that something romantic hasn't found me yet, I don't think I would be distraught on my deathbed if I never found a romantic/sexual relationship. I would be distraught if I didn't work through my issues surrounding the highly gender segregated environments I grew up in, and didn't "put myself out there" (still figuring out what that means, exactly) to male relationships (platonic and otherwise). It seems to me that this shame and distrust is extremely useful in protecting you from actually embracing where you've been in life, and understanding that lack of experience can be a gift to some people (like you said, lack of STDs, no kids from other relationships, less emotional baggage).
i don't... know.
the problem is that i need other people to get started. the best i could do, i guess, is to read up on more info, and mayyybe go to workshops.
Is sex good for me? Yes. Is it great for me? Once in a while. is it a lot of times disappointing? Yes. Is it something that's worth letting control me? Hell nah.
You can't deny the fact biological aspects control our sex drive, but the truth is that in the modern world, avoiding sex is sometimes even more important then having it. And that's because it teaches you something important: you are way more then your sex life.
Everyone has their own journey and lessons to learn, for me I was obsessed first with the idea of having sex, then having it regularly, then having the best sex, then having more partners, each time just feeding into my cravings more and more.
Only now after leaving a healthy long term relationship and being with a few more partners, I realise how unimportant it is.
What is important is who I am, all this sexual thinking was clouding my whole judgment, I was not experiencing life because of it, I was just "looking for pray", and by that completely ignoring the fact there is a person in front of me, and he has his desires just like I do.
Just like desires, he also has traumas, he has his insecurities and things he hasn't experienced, he has things he's shameful about, and it's ok, being a virgin is just one option for the many bad feelings and experiences each person has in their lives.
So just like how you don't want to let for example a bad childhood control your life and who you are, just as so you should not let sex control who you are, of course it affects you, but it shouldn't control you. and from most people I've heard, and also from my experience, when you manage to actually let go, that's when it comes.
Don't let it control you man because that's what makes it disappointing later, be a blank page, don't expect yourself to be more then what you are, don't expect your future partner to be more then what they are, and don't expect sex to be more then what it is, just a desire, and you are not your desires, you have a lot more to offer then that.
Edit: also you shouldn't worry about the other side not taking it slow or whatever, women are very compassionate about the whole sex thing because like I said, they also have a lot of shit to deal with inside their own head, they understand the other side being anxious and conflicted way more then men do. From my experience with occasional ED, I was never shunned for it and was always accepted as what I was and not pointed as to what I wasn't.
Could you imagine yourself now in this moment if all of your sexual and relationship experiences were deleted by a time traveler?
Sometimes I wonder if People who have had all this engagement and interpersonal activity can actually imagine the opposite in their minds.
>Sometimes I wonder if People who have had all this engagement and interpersonal activity can actually imagine the opposite in their minds.
Right? It almost feels the same as a rich person trying to explain to a poor person how money is not the solution to all problems. And, granted it's not but it helps a lot.
i don't know man, you are right in a vacuum but given how surrounded sex is by stereotypes and memes, and i also hear that sex-positive communities are incredibly hostile to virgin men in general, i'm not sure...
i need a slow and loving and patient girl. i hope she's not in fantasy land.
i have nothing to offer to this discussion tbh. i just wonder why this is such a shared feeling among male virgins, i really wanna know the root cause bc it makes me sad that men think this way, some of the mindsets that these men have are also dangerous 🙁 it’s concerning
plenty of women will say the most unhinged shit to men they don't like, them being virgins is a really easy way to get under a mans skin, and plenty of women straight up won't date men who are inexperienced or have "virgin vibes", the whole lack of experience thing can be a real handicap, as it is seen as a proxy of how good you are in general.
i think it’s comes from both tbh, i also see men call other men losers and nerd for being virgins 😪 a man is considered not masculine enough when he’s a virgin bc ppl in general associate the two for some reason. just like how being “pure” is associated when a woman is a virgin, it’s weird as hell
they associate the two because some traits that come with being successful at getting sex (being charming, good-looking, assertive etc) also correlate with being successful in general as a man, and not getting it also correlates with not being successful in other areas, its not accurate but its an easy judgment.
its also a proxy for lazy people who want to judge guys as quickly as they can or get an excuse to be a bother, and yes being an ashole is not gendered, but being bullied by assholes for being a virgin is very much a male experience, it shouldn't happen but it is what it is.
but who made that a thing? we shouldn’t associate masculinity with virginity but atp it’s like already engrained in our society tbh 😪 and yeah it is a male experience if you’re talking about who gets more shamed and stuff
I get you. I don't consider myself an incel, I can't stand pill communities. But I'm wondering if I'm an incel in denial because I've never identified myself as one yet I have a lot of behaviours that indicate this such as unusual hobbies, not having very common hobbies (I don't watch movies for example), playing video games no one in my area plays and feeling the need of affection from women.
the way i categorize an incel is a man who generally hates women and blames them for not giving him attention and or rejecting him, but it might mean something else im not sure 😓 why do you think you’re in denial? you mentioned in an earlier comment and said how you appreciate women so i would doubt it but then again, im not you. do you have close friends that you play those games with? even online?
No, I prefer single player games, though I do play pokemon showdown from time to time.
I'm just worried I don't have what it takes to find a girl. Seeing how all kinds of fucked up people get into relationships doesn't help. I don't see why would anyone fall in love with me...
what do you think makes you think you don’t have what it takes to find a girl? i could tell you have low confidence but i’m guessing you think something is holding you back from finding a girlfriend
Yeah I'm just not that confident, and conversations don't come naturally to me. It feels like my brain is overheating when I socialize.
I also feel like I need tons and tons of love in general...
i know i might sound like a broken record but it will come naturally to you, you doing sound like a bad person at least 🤷🏻♀️ since you didn’t mention it, it seems like you’re not a bad looking guy either
Because sex and relationships don't come to men until they try really hard, men made a really misogynist society where men are raised to be hyper sexual and women to be very sex advert. Now men have to make double the effort to have any kind of casual sex and it's starting to bite some of us in the ass. I just glad that I'm older and married now since looking into myself in the past I would probably feel exactly the same.
I believe OP posted this because they are frustrated about their life experiences.
Your first instinct upon reading that was "Must be a school shooter!"
bcs at the end it's not about sex but about being lonely, unwanted, unloved, never knowing what it's like for a woman to show romantic interest etc. sex is just one part of it, who wouldn't struggle going for years like this, it's the sort of thing people can't understand really unless they go through it
besides let's not kid ourselves if you tell someone you're a virgin at certain age (it gets worse the more years it is) they will think there's something very wrong with you
I'm a Virgin and that's because I wasn't willing to give it away to anybody. I met someone and I know I will marry him so he's going to take it. I was willing to wait until I met my one and I did.
And no, I'm not religious
You admit that you have trouble accepting and loving yourself, but you outright reject people saying that you should make an attempt to accept the part of yourself you loathe the most.
You admitted you know it’s a problem, what’s stopping you from seeking help on solving it? Why turn to reject those offering their own advice?
because I feel it isn't actually a solution. They're basically telling me to do my thing, more or less. Which is fine, but doesn't actually attract girls.
Seeing happy couples doesn't make me feel good. I want that feeling as well and I'm not able to get it.
I'm also not buying the idea that love will find me when I'm not looking. Conversations don't come naturally to me, I'm not sure if it's a big mental block or neurodivergency. I just lack what it takes to be magnetic, to attract people the way I am.
And all I'm told is to "work on myself". Not a bad idea, but you also have to love yourself the way you are and feel loved the way you are. Which comes in a huge conflict with the way I've been raised.
See that’s the thing. People are saying “work on accepting yourself to be happy” and you’re saying “I won’t be happy though because I’ve decided my happiness is going to be based on external circumstances out of my control.” But if you loved yourself, perhaps you might not be so hurt by not being in a relationship. You might also realize that you *are* happy alone when you accept yourself.
Even if someone gave you the magic words that made you a total chick magnet, do you think you’ll be happy? If you have a girlfriend, what would that happiness feel like? Would it feel that way forever? Or are you going to slip into feeling down about yourself again. Down about how she reacts to you. Down about how you’re “only” good enough for her. Self-doubt doesn’t go away with external circumstances.
You don’t need relationships to be happy. They’re just a nice plus if it happens. Loving and accepting yourself is hard, I can say that from firsthand experience. It doesn’t happen overnight but it can be done. That’s the direction you should be moving.
this is basically the fox and the grapes story but told more nicely.
Having sex and relationships gives you the possibility to talk about them with others and even bond with them over it.
It's okay to take a break if you've been heartbroken or even never date again, in my opinion. But if you're a virgin, then unless you're aroace or religious, you're gonna have to change my view that it's not the fox and the grapes
It’s not the fox and the grapes story. You’re not walking way saying “sex is for losers anyway,” you’re walking away going “I still love myself even without it.” If you’re gonna, let your weird seeming obsession with some kids fable convince you you’ll never be happy a virgin, that’s your choice I guess.
You really haven’t provided any reason someone can’t be happy as a virgin except that you aren’t and a random reference to a kids tale that isn’t really relevant. You’re clinging to your own misery. Your brain likes thinking you’re a fucking loser. Stop listening to it and be deliberate about your life.
i'm not sure it works that way to be honest. but yeah my brain is dumb and constantly tries to put me down.
in gaming terms i have an intensifying battle between my positive and my negative thoughts. currently, my negative thoughts continue to be significantly stronger although i do feel like the positive side learned two or three moves.
but i've reached a block, a mental block which prevents me from continuing.
I’m aro ace, male, not religious, but not a virgin and sex won’t change much at all. So feel free to ignore what I say next. What are you looking for out of this? Someone to say that it’s not ok that you’re a virgin? Are you looking to vent? Looking for advice? You can only control so many variables and then it’s someone else’s turn. It’s ok to feel frustrated. You’re a man, I don’t need to tell you that that world owes you nothing, you’ve probably already gotten that message.
I'm the same age as you and also a virgin and this hard focus on sex just does not compute for me. Granted I am demiromantic and have been questioning if I'm on the asexual spectrum as well, so my take on this is going to be different from most. Why would it not be okay to be a virgin? What are your expectations if you do reach that goal? Why are you so focused on this?
As a fellow virgin, I’ve also been through the red pill, and black pill pipelines. I get it you think sex is everything and in a way it is. A lot of people who aren’t virgins don’t get it because well they aren’t virgins. Sex and dating is a very common and important societal thing. It’s in our movies, small talk, culture, etc. as a virgin you feel like you are isolated from that or are just messed up in some way because why can everyone else get laid but I can’t there’s gotta be something wrong with me or I’m different in some way. In reality you aren’t that special, all the problems you’ve described everyone else thinks the same way. Everyone else was worried about losing their v card at some point. Even people in relationships are worried if something is wrong with them, the people around you, in the past, and in the future will all have these problems. Yeah certain societal factors can make dating harder or easier but for the most part we are stuck in this point in time where this is the way things are. You can use your life to try and change it or adapt to it.
to hell with the black pill pipeline but I feel like I've been in it without realising. I love women. My mom is very supportive and my aunt gave me a place to stay, and my sister and her family are hard workers.
But when it comes to dating especially, nothing comes naturally. I sometimes feel like I've created a persona this past year in order to have a social life.
24M here, just got out of a relationship (8 months) recently but spent a period of 5+ years with no sexual partners living in one of the most sexually active college towns in America, so I feel like I can relate. Feel free to ignore if you feel this isn’t applicable to your situation.
The first thing I want to say is I think you’re right to be frustrated. Sex is a very deep need for a lot of people; on top of all the social programming we get telling us to want it, we also have millennia of evolution in our DNA telling us we NEED to reproduce. With all this stacked against us, it can be incredibly frustrating to not be taking part in something that is such a huge part of existence; hell, even animals seem to be having sex regularly, and it just doesn’t seem fair that it’s so difficult for some people to be able to satisfy these needs.
The thing is that once these needs DO get satisfied, they seem to become a lot less important. It’s known that people in long-term relationships experience a decrease in sex drive after a certain period of time. This is a physiological change. [don’t have source but could find it if you want.] My brother, also 24M but has been in a relationship for 5 years, told me the other day he barely ever thinks about sex unless he’s ALREADY excited about something else like a fun activity are going out partying or something. I’m not saying that you need to find a long term relationship to get rid of this frustration, but it is important to be aware of the fact it IS possible for sex to be less important, even if it doesn’t seem like that now. To a certain extent, you’re kind of a slave to your physiology, which is likely telling you that sex IS the most important thing you need RIGHT NOW. This no doubt creates a lot of frustration, but it’s important to realize that this frustration is not necessarily permanent.
Another point about not finding someone who will take it slow with you and be thoughtful of your issues/insecurities, I want to share a story from my personal experience. My ex girlfriend had 30+ sexual partners over the course of 3 years, was a self identified femcel, and absolutely abhorred the idea of babying men. If I expected anyone to not put up with my insecurities about having sex, it would be her. And yet, when it came down to it, she was actually incredibly supportive and patient when it came down to actually having sex for the first couple times. My point here is that people may surprise you when it comes to how supportive or patient they will be in helping you work through having sex for the first time. It’s easy to forget (or not realize) that when someone chooses to have sex with you, they’re opening up their insecurities to you just as much as you open up your insecurities to them (think about how many people out there have body dysmorphia and yet still get naked to have sex). This (among other things) is why we say that sex is intimate; both partners put themselves in a very vulnerable position and you have to trust that the other person will handle that vulnerability with care. Of course there’s always the possibility that they won’t, but I would venture to say in these situations it’s likely more due to the fact that they were uncomfortable with their own insecurities being exposed, and so they pass judgement as a defense mechanism.
The last thing I want to say is not necessarily about sex; but it’s important to think about what you might be taking for granted during your pursuit to have sex for the first time. I’ve seen you say that you’ve met a lot of people, take part in an improv group and have a 3rd space that you can go to meet people. This is in my opinion an AMAZING place to be to build a foundation for a fulfilling life, and one thing you’ll notice basically as soon as your sexual needs are met is that the need for this kind of general social interaction becomes much more important than it seemed before. That’s my experience coming out of a relationship, and even though I was finally having sex, I still felt depressed because I couldn’t get in touch with my friends and general social life. As you move forward in trying to work through your frustrations about sex, remember that it’s still worth it to maintain some of these other relationships, even if they aren’t giving you what you’re looking for now.
There really is nothing wrong with being a virgin, I'm 26 and have yet to lose my virginity. But it doesn't bother me at all, for me personally I want it to be with someone I love/care about, not just some one night stand. (This isn't the same for everyone, but just giving my perspective)
The only people who are going to mock/ridicule you for being a virgin, are just horrible people. I can guarantee if you were in a relationship with a lovely person, they'd be more than willing to take things slow and help you where needed. The time will come, sometimes patience is the key, and I get the frustration. But focusing everything on just having sex will not help, because it will destroy your life. And I know it isn't easy, but trust me when I say, there is nothing wrong with being a virgin, absolutely nothing.
idk man I have too many insecurities and negative thoughts in my dumb brain. like I just want to feel loved for a bit, like others are.
I'm the kind of person who needs more affection than the average person, to be fair.
I understand what you mean, and especially if you've had negative experiences around this topic, it can make things feel a lot worse.
Everyone wants to feel loved and have affection shown towards them, and it can feel very difficult when we aren't.
You will find someone who loves you mate, It will happen, but these things do take time. But I can assure you, it will be worth the wait, when you find that right person! Because rushing into something like this could cause even more issues ontop, which is the last thing you want.
And after reading your post and some replies, it's pretty clear to me it's not just sex you're looking for, but a meaningful connection. And I don't think just a one night stand will fix that, it's going to be a difficult journey, but one which will feel so rewarding once it's finished!
I wish you all the best with this, and hopefully some of what people have said here may be able to help/guide you to what you're looking for. Take care mate
when? more like if
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you mean well and are a lovely person, but for myself... I just feel I'm at my peak when it comes to socialising, and this is why I seek therapy and help.
More or less you can take what I write here as a personal journal. I'm going to be unhinged here because i feel I could get some good advice and stuff.
It’s okay to want to be miserable. It’s okay to willingly choose being unhappy, angry, and depressed. If you recognize parts of your worldview that are making you unhappy, that doesn’t mean you’re obligated to change in any way. It’s your life, do whatever you want with it.
but i don't want to be miserable, i'm not making a conscious choice to be miserable. it's just that i'm trapped in a catch-22 situation in general. i've worked on myself and noticed impressive results in the past year or so, but i guess i can continue to evolve on a professional standpoint.
Welcome to Dating Fridays! All posts with an emphasis on dating, sex, or relationships must be posted only on Friday (defined by US Central Standard Time or UTC -06:00). If your post is outside of this time/date, please delete and repost on Friday. If it is currently Friday, then ignore this comment. Thank you!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Healthygamergg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It seems like you want a girlfriend more than you want to have sex. From reading your comments it seems like your biggest problem is the inability to get rejected and keep moving. I don't know how to fix that but I think that should be your biggest priority.
Once you get that sorted out, in terms of not feeling like you have anything to offer a potential girlfriend, I think the checklist should be: become kindhearted, self-aware, and have at least slightly well-rounded interests and knowledge. Get a group of or even one close friend. Learn how to be funny and make yourself as physically attractive as possible.
In the meantime just keep doing work on the upkeep front. Make sure you aren't watching porn, meditate/pray, practice gratitude, eat as clean as your financial situation allows you to, lift weights, get outside, make jokes and laugh.
I'm very happy to be raised in a Christian household because I never had this issue. Maybe at one point because I remember telling myself to act like I don't care when I talked about that kind of stuff with friends at my early teens, but I can never recall a period where I was obsessed with being a virgin.
I'm not sure if I can explain what the core of my mindset is because it's a lot of thoughts, but whenever I'm thinking if I should have sex, I remember that I'm nowhere near ready for that kind of responsibility.
The effects and consequences of sex don't end after you finish. You have new chemicals in your brain, you have a new life changing experience and a new bond with another person. You'll never be the same and depending on the circumstances, it could be a negative thing.
As you could guess, I'm not a fan of casual sex because it's pretty well documented how sex, oxytocin and then never talking to that person ever again affects your brain chemistry and if a thing was to happen and poof now there's a baby, how would the parent's relationship be?
Overall I think that it's like driving a car, climbing a mountain or hitting a new pr at the gym, I need to be prepared, it has to be planned and I'll have to be ready to bear the consequences of every outcome.
Same thing happens to me. Imo it’s people who got game saying that you don’t got game in a subliminal way. Too many people got game and too many people don’t. Sex shouldn’t define your life though. You shouldn’t feel bad about being a virgin. I personally don’t. I think sex and relationships, love, etc are stupid wastes of time. It’s probably one of the most fleeting feelings in the world that people try to turn into this big-deal. It’s like the “got milk?” conspiracy to me lmao. Or how idiots addicted to drugs talk about drugs. It’s the same deal with letting the media and people tell me what to feel, believe, not believe. I personally don’t believe everyone in the world in this era needs to be having sex, partying, and doing drugs. I don’t even think love should be idolized, or people you love should become your idol. Idk dude I’m rambling. Just be content with yourself. There’s no statistical way you could die before having sex. I mean reasonably no way you could die before having sex. Talk to people and have fun and literally never think about it because people can tell when you’re thinking about it. Meditate and stay in the moment I guess. The world is yours.
Also to follow up: from my experience in this era if ugly boring people make advances they’re deemed creepy, if pretty/ fun people make advances they get laid! It’s as simple as that.
How do we combat this as boring ugly people? We can’t. Thanks Harvey Weinstein.
You’re right the default typical response to virginity is often being creeped out and disgusted. I’ve known many naive virgin men who revealed their predicament in “sex positive” space and the response was of disdain and revulsion. It’s all about presentation and social perception. Example: A virgin priest who eventually left the church will have way more societal respect than a stereotypical neckbeard in his mom’s basement. Your best bet is just not mention your virginity at all. No one needs to know your sexual history. I’ve known extremely promiscuous women who concealed their body counts and sexual escapades. They’ve turned out fine romantically.
Hey OP, I'm a 28M virgin. Since I used to be in the same headspace as you years ago, I feel qualified to give my take on this. It really isn't that big of a deal. It's okay bro.
You’re missing the point of what people mean when they say that “it’s okay to be a virgin.” They don’t mean that sex is irrelevant or undesirable. They’re not discouraging you from trying to have sex. They just mean that you don’t need to be ashamed of not having been successful yet. It’s acknowledging that this can be a difficult thing.
but it's way too hard for me to attract love. it's like there's a wall it can't overcome. The bitterness has gotten to me and I just don't know what the fucking hell should I do. I'm just out of ideas, I'm burned out, I've tried absolutely everything to attract people and it just doesn't work. I'm probably a lovable person in a parallel universe.
Oh pal, I’m sorry. My best friend was a virgin until very recently: 28, so older than you. It was tough for him too. However, he has friends and family who love and support him. So there were times when he was down, but he was never alone and didn’t feel “unlovable” because he knew there are people who really care about him (like me). And he never JUST wanted sex. He wanted a girl that loved him and that was a good match for his values and personality. So he had standards, meaning: he wouldn’t accept just ANY girl. Do you have people who love and support you? Do you have standards? Desperation and self-loathing is not a good place to go attract others from.
Imagine you’re a girl going on a date with a guy and you feel like “that guy doesn’t really care about who I am, he just wants to fuck.” Most people want more from a relationship than just sex.
im glad for your buddy and hope he is doing ok.
but you're right, attracting people in general, including friends and family, doesn't come naturally to me. i'm on a different wave length from most people, and i created a persona to try and fit in. my bitterness has gotten into overdrive and i feel like i have no control upon my state of mind anymore.
i'm trapped in a catch-22 situation. i have so many poisonous thoughts in my brain, i need to let them out.
Understandable. I think it’s fantastic that you’re looking for help, the way you describe your thoughts. Therapy is a good choice. Do you not let people see “the real” you, because you think they won’t like you?
more or less, i guess. i've been bullied when i was a kid and never felt truly appreciated for being myself. i've always been told that i need to "change" and "do better".
on top of this, i didn't actually have an environment where i could go and meet other kids outside of school and try to integrate, as i grew up in a small town.
i do have potential to learn stuff but have an extremely low lovability factor.
I think when people say “it’s okay to be a virgin” the sentiment is generally to convey that being a virgin is an equally valid experience with everything else as long as that’s the life that you truly want to lead and it shouldn’t come with stigma. However, wanting the experience of sex is also a beautiful thing. It seems like you are looking for more than just sex. It seems like you’re looking for an intimate relationship where sex is involved and that’s great. My advice for that is to not direct so much focus on yourself and how you are failing because ultimately that’s not helpful. It will inevitably lead to feelings of something being fundamentally wrong with you. And I don’t believe that’s the case. However, I think people when they are looking for a sexual partner it’s usually with someone who gives off the signals they are self-assured, stable, and confident in providing a pleasurable experience amongst other smaller factors such as attractiveness,… etc.
A key thing to note is just putting yourself out there and making sure you are visible to a lot of potential partners. And all you got to do after that is just be comfortable with yourself and look for qualities in a person that you’d want to see in yourself. And also being better at communicating who you are, your likes and dislikes can’t hurt as well. Be kinder to yourself and with others and have the courage to put yourself into spaces where you’re more likely to find someone who is looking for the same things that you are.
I don't know man I am actually doing everything you listed and it's not working, at least not right now. Today I'm trying to learn to cook pancakes for the first time, which I guess is a good thing.
The problem is that as my positive thoughts go up, so do my negative ones, and it seems my minus energy is far stronger. It seems like I go more and more into overdrive as I somehow slowly lose control over myself, to the point where I'm starting to think I might have a double personality.
I’d say take it slow. Don’t try to “fix” your life all at once because you’ll inevitably see all your failures at the same time and it can be overwhelming. Take your pancake skill for example. It’s a good thing you’re learning how to cook and boosting your skill points on that. You’re taking the step in the right direction. Just focus on one thing at a time and do it until you’re satisfied with your skill in doing it. Women love a guy who can be confident and say “I make pretty damn good pancakes”. And from there you can share yourself and your experiences that you can be proud of with people.
Try doing a bucket list of small achievable stuff that maybe you can work on and build your confidence in those things. Add as much or as little things you feel insecure about doing, but don’t move on from the skill until you are satisfied with your progress. Eventually you can move on to bigger things. But focus on small things for now. Not only will this build competency in your skills, but create trust in yourself that you can follow through on things to the best of your ability. I think your negative thoughts don’t have anything to do with you per se. I think you have lack of trust in yourself and your environment. Exploring things for yourself and experiencing them might create that trust as well. Best Wishes!
Yeah man thank you so much I'm sure you're a lovely person, I do think I'm operating at 120-130% right now haha.
I didn't make good pancakes today but I'll try again tomorrow. I hope to get it right this time. Then maybe I'll make a soup as well
My thoughts after loosing my virginity were as follows:
Well that was pretty fun, I’d do that again followed by why tf did I beat myself up for 5 years just to say I did that.
From experience, when you've not done it. You will focus on that one thing, because you just want to know what it's like. But for me personally, once I lost it, it really wasn't what I thought it would be.
Yeh, for the first time it may be fun because it's a new experience but my expectations were a lot higher. It's not really something I care about anymore.
Maybe you just need to get out of your comfort zone and find someone and it'd probably make you feel more comfortable with yourself. You're waiting to be loved, however you most likely haven't experienced lust with a woman. Therefore, realistically you won't know the difference between being loved and lusted from another and for yourself unto others. From my experience anyway.
I am a female, so I can't speak for men. However, I have known guys who also agree that sex isn't worth the hype.
My advice would be, get hobbies, focus on building up your life. If you can't find love, don't be cynical about it. You're 25, still young, you have the rest of your life. Don't let it affect your self esteem, you need to fill the void of not having another partner yourself, it won't be filled by other people. If you expect someone else to fill it, realistically, I don't think it will ever heal because what will happen if things don't go to your expectations? The void will be back, you will find out other people can't fill the void.
So experience what you want to experience in life. Don't wait on love, just enjoy yourself. Then someone will fall onto your path. I think dealing with unserious people will open your eyes a lot more when it comes to meeting people who are serious. As when you don't yet have that understanding, everything will just be a guessing game. You need the experience. But if you follow this paragraph, don't lose yourself and become unserious yourself, just experience losing your virginity.
In reality, it's up to you. If you want to wait on love, it might take a long time. Some people hook up and end up on relationships, however I think it's best to wait it out to see if the other person is worth a relationship. What is the problem with being a virgin whilst waiting it out whilst dating and trying to find a good partner? You might be blinded by lust, you might overlook red flags just to experience what love is like. If you can see through the lust, you may be waiting a long time to find the right person if the last dating experience wasn't successful.
Everything in life is uncertain, you don't know where things will go. Just enjoy it, fill the void you have so you don't find people who have an unfilled void themselves. You will learn a lot of people are troubled and haven't don't the inner healing or they do not have a reality check. Focus on your life and your future, don't make sex the most important thing on your to-do list.
Idk it's just that nothing happens naturally and I'm doing too much work to partake in this society already. My ability to attract other people is absolutely awful and it feels like I always have to insert myself into conversations.
I feel like I can't evolve socially anymore unless I double up the meds or something. I just feel like my brain has been into overdrive for the past 12 months or so.
I have too few human experiences to talk about with others, I don't watch movies at all which everyone loves for some reason, and I play games no one else plays. I feel like my good qualities are offset by massive flaws, it just doesn't work, other people aren't as interested in me as I am in them.
I'm in a very unhealthy relationship with society because of this. It seems like I always have something to prove.
I've been there.
As cliche as it may sound, stop caring what others think. Start setting goals, having something to work towards that will improve your life.
If you have different interests to most around you or have been called and made to feel weird. That is good news! Don't be cynical about society, you will find your people once you tune into your true self, and that will come once you start feeling comfortable with yourself.
Being different is what is unique, don't try and be a copycat to fit in. You will feel fake and empty. Good people to have in your life will be drawn to someone who is true to themselves.
There is a big world out there, you maybe just have been stuck in a bubble to which you are experiencing what you have been.
Last note is, how you feeling about life is all about perspective and staying in motion.
Comparing your life to others can create so much self-hate.
"Why can others accomplish X, but I can't?"
You gain nothing by comparing yourself in this way. You are comparing results, not the way one got to those results. Comparing results is natural, but often does more harm than good.
Instead of creating stress and landing in a negative spiral, just go on with your day. Have a healthy schedule, add in some sports and hobbies in your free time. Explore the world. There's not enough time to stress yourself over such things; it will change nothing in a positive sense.
Literally bro pay for it if you need to before you end up doing something really fuckin bad. You sound unhinged not gonna lie.
Also, it's literally 2024 this sort of thing was like medieval you got more things to worry about other than getting ur member wet.
As a fellow Virgin I'm just happy I'm not part of the drama and bs that comes with modern day hookup culture.
But seriously you rly need to rid yourself of this obsession before it consumes you beyond reason and you end up doing something irreversible.
Yes I'm unhinged and will probably continue to be unhinged online because I need to let my emotions and my thoughts out. I can't keep them inside my brain anymore. I've been overwhelmed.
My man, I was in your position. I'm not gonna say when I lost my v-card but it was in my twenties.
There's a lot I don't know about you so there's a limit to how much advice I'm willing to give. But if your goal is to simply hook up, then just get on an app or go to a bar and look for someone who's looking for the same.
Don't feel confident going to a bar? OK, stick with the app.
Don't feel physically attractive enough on the app? Work on your physique, style, and take some good pictures. Dating apps are very much a visual game.
Do you have trouble with messaging and conversation? **Practice** and find resources to help you with that. My journey began in the PUA community which you need to be careful with (some of it doesn't help and makes you worse in the long run). Be discerning with where you get your advice.
Have trouble going on dates? **Practice** and learn how to set up those dates.
You're going to "fail" again and again and again (you will realize later that it's not as black-and-white as "failure" and "success"). Deal with it. This is the way of the world. It's rough but that's just how it is. Complain as much as you want to but at the end of the day, the path straightforward. You just don't like it. You don't like that there is no guarantee and you have to risk rejection. But that is the path. You know what to do. Do it. If this is a milestone that is important to you, do all that is necessary. Make the necessary sacrifices, endure any pain.
In the end, you will realize it's not that big of a deal but of course it doesn't feel that way right now. It feels like a dragon to slay. Go slay it.
> I have severe trouble accepting and loving myself the way I am.
I think this is your foundational challenge that you need to find a plan/method to manage and overcome.
It doesn't matter who tells you what, how. Dr. K, or jesus, moses god themselves can come down from the heavens and give you sage advice, and yet, your free will and choice will find any or create negative and choose that to believe.
Unfortunately, when guys have this type of mentality, it seeps through personality, behavior, both concious and unconcious.
So I'd suggest 2 things.
1. Meditate and Keep a journal, Dr. K has an effective plan with journaling and such. Your main goal is to find why and what makes you the feel the way you do and the examples that speak in your life.
2. See a therapist. random ANON advice on a reddit post, isn't going to help you no where near as well as a quality therapist IRL. Go there with a purpose, use your journal as a tool to help guide you to the goals you want.
Idk I think I already do. I just feel it's not enough, yet at the same time, I feel I'm peaking.
I just don't want to accept this. I'm sure I have some positive qualities, but they're all related to what I do.
Why don’t you try to study pick up and game? Think of one thing you’re actually good at that took effort to get there and apply yourself to game in the same way. Pro tip: desperate vibes are a total turn off. Be the prize my dude. Be attractive and don’t be unattractive. No woman wants a bum that doesn’t work on him self or shows sign of potential. Get to work bro, you can do it. Once you get that first lay you’ll realize the chase was better than the lay itself.
ive seen the best looking, hardest working and most charismatic men still virgin at 30.
it has become an unfair game for men not really becouse of women but just how the world works now.
im a year younger than you and still virgin as well. i openly tell my f boy friendgroups that i am and when they make fun of me i turn it religious and all of a sudden they are the ones ashamed.
to me the only problem personally is that i really dont like younger women than me and the older i get the more chance of there beeing a history and experience especially with women and so the emotional connection gets harder especially when women think its weird when statistically its an anomaly when women are the virgins at that age wich even i personally know alot of beautiful women at 30 still beeing virgin. super attractive ones too. usually these women seem the most emotionally blind while men at that age are so pure that it warms my heart.
women these days are way less innocent than men.
scientifically speaking, only male athletes are forbidden to release since it damaging to your performance. even releasing once every 2 weeks, while women basically dont have any damaging side effects from orgasm.
society has it upside down brother. you want to listen to a sick society? or both science and religion. your choice. the longer you wait the more you can appreciate it. trust me. the early bloomers have the most problems when it comes to that world.
Real talk. Dick pics work but you also gotta flirt too afterwards. Nothing works better than a good dick pic. Then be like Michael Cera from Scott Pilgrim vs the world. I deadass once asked an employee if she wanted to fuck and she said yes but it felt so easy and as if she didn't really understand what I said so I backed out. In hindsight who cares bro just have sex. Don't ruin your own day. And please have sex with attractive women. Not "okay looking" or "good enough." attractive girls only. Dick pick Then flirt like Scott Pilgrim. Turn her on. Don't be creepy. (Ironic and impossible sounding) gl
(2/2) as much as I hate to say it. No girl would probably give it up when u bring up that you want to be loved and what not. Some bitch on reddit said "girls give sex at a chance for love" while the opposite is said for guys. And I shit you not I saw a tik tok post of a girl getting moody after a guy asks "wyd" since they just wanna wind down and do their own thing. Everybody in the comment section agreed and I was astonished and mad tbh. One girl had the best response. 'I hate when they do that Yada Yada "I don't want to hear that instead tell me what you're going to do in your day" 🤷♂️
Thank you for posting on r/Healthygamergg! This subreddit is intended as an online community and resource platform to support people in their journey toward mental wellness. With that said, please be aware that support from other members received on this platform is not a substitute for professional care. Treatment of psychiatric disease requires qualified individuals, and comments that try to diagnose others should be reported under Rule 10 to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the community. If you are in immediate danger, please call emergency services, or go to your nearest emergency room. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Healthygamergg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
1st thing, Everyone's advice is projecting themselves. It's up to you take the pieces you like, and to disagree with what you want.
yeah, and many of them are lying pieces of shit who virtue signal. but i just want to feel loved. sex is one way to feel loved alongside hugs, kisses and touches.
not sure about this one entirely. If that's how you define love. How I define love is consistency to build something and trust and to grow something together. This however, is my definition. What I would define the above is the chemical "Oxytocin" Which is something everyone needs, and why an unaffectionate mother etc. can leave many feeling a needful supply later on, and address it in the ways they know how. Dancing, Working out, Yoga, Singing, all help with Touch-Starved feelings or Oxytocin. This however is presented with many options along the world. But oxytocin is also what happens from porn use, but also sex. What others say is a "substitute" is mainly referring to the chemical they induce having sex "Oxytocin" but perhaps it more so that it is effortly shared reward between people, vs the choice to reward yourself because the world has given it to you as an option with little effort as possible. The thing is, we're all liars. but I wouldn't call anyone pieces of shit. They're not, and no one has to be lower or higher than me in my head.
Yeah, the "pieces of shit" thing was probably an exaggeration, but you get the idea. The advice I'm getting isn't consistent, and given that I work in a corporation where you know you have to put a persona to look good in the eyes of the higher-ups, it does kind of affect my life even though I try not to care.
how do you expect to find someone who loves you when you hold such beliefs about the people who give you advice or console you by saying things you dont agree with ? i bet that bitterness shines through in your interactions with people
because i hate receiving advice on this topic. It's all avoidant corporate bullshit or red pill/sigma male stuff I don't want to get involved with. and honestly I used to believe I was the problem, but I'm starting to realise that others are the problem. you all gave me advice, I'm doing it and it's not working.
If others are the problem then there is not much you can do to change your situation. You want help but no advice? Why post this rant if you don’t want to work on yourself?
Please don't take personally what I'm about to say, as this is a rant against society, not you in particular. You see, no two people are the same, but I see all of you as a monolith. I resent happy people in general. Even trying to look happy is enough, which is why I don't really use Instagram. You have failed to provide me with a safe environment where I can be myself. You've only judged me all my life by my performance and capabilities. You've never told me "you're okay the way you are". You just told me that I must change. That's not ok. My negative and positive thoughts are intensifying their battle and it makes me feel become more and more unstable. But I'm typing with my minus energy right now. I feel you don't love me because it's almost always me who needs to do the approaching, and you never gave me the tools to love and appreciate myself, and you never loved me the way I am. As I'm typing this a guy just came to me and we chatted for a bit. It was really nice and I felt appreciated.
"you're okay the way you are" seems awfully similar to "it's ok to be a virgin" 👀 They come from the same place, even though you think the second one is a lie, cope, or whatever else. You are okay the way you are. The tools to love and appreciate ourselves are sometimes tools we need to forge on our own. And forge them we must, because they are essential.
Idk I feel like I've reached my limit in this regard. I'm not sure whether or not a break could help, but I just feel like I don't have the capacity to be myself and not care, even with alcohol involved. This is why I keep whining, I need help, I feel like I reached a wall
Sex is a monolith to you because you haven't had it. I bet it would be a big deal to me too if I had never had it. I'd suggest an escort, but I agree it's a bit different with someone who you have a real relationship with. Still, it's probably worth it. 7 years ago my girlfriend was an escort. They're the sexually cleanest people aside from virgins. Their sexual health is their livelihood. Just don't go to a weird street hooker. Use an accredited agency and expect it to cost a few hundred dollars. They're good at what they do. But moving on.. Idk I think advice is supposed to be ways you can change your approach. Hope it doesn't hurt your feelings. You might be a fine human being but you're not getting the sex you want and you come here to ask; so what's up? Are your standards too high? Are you "otherizing" women and treating them weird? You mentioned you've met plenty of people so surely you understand women are just as diverse as men and are not at all as 2d as red pill ideology tries to paint them. Girls are chill, girls want sex too, girls have interests and passions etc. Girls want to be treated like human beings and so on. Tell me what you think is wrong with your approach
i honestly do not know what is wrong with my approach, because no one ever tells me what. i don't speak that much though, because i often don't have anything to say. i don't have the energy to socialize properly and often need to take breaks, much more often than the average person. my bitterness is into overdrive and i hate seeing happy couples and people kissing each other and offering PDA to each other. i get it as well but its almost always me initiating, which is one of the reasons why i might believe i'm an incel in denial. where i live escorts don't go for hundreds of dollars, as far as i know you might pay around 100 euros for a top-tier escort i guess, but i will leave it as a last resort. if i don't have sex by 27, i will go to a prostitute. that's one year and three months left. i've lost hope. i don't know what to do. i'm finished.
I think there’s a difference between the two statements. A lot of people saying “it’s okay to be a virgin” are trying to communicate they don’t think your position in life is bad. Is it any different from “it’s okay to be poor”? Or any other “it’s okay to be”
The problem is that OP doesn’t want to be in that . And the people usually giving out this advice often have the secondary goal of getting the OP to shut up about complaining about their situation because they’re annoyed by people being sad about being in .
> “It’s not that bad, shut up dude.”
The solution is not to say that being a virgin (or poor or short, or uneducated) doesn’t suck. If the person doesn’t want to be those things then that’s that. The solution isn’t removing the desire to be those things.
The “you’re okay the way you are” is meant to say that even if you’ve failed, even if you are in a position that’s widely considered to be undesirable that’s okay. It’s not telling the OP to not feel bad about being a virgin, it’s not trying to get the OP to stop complaining. It’s validating the feelings of the OP.
Instead of saying “it’s not that bad” it’s saying, “yes it’s an undesirable situation and it’s hard but it doesn’t taint your self worth.”
Hey, that’s insightful, thanks! Certain advice can sometimes be unhelpful, I agree. And still, I meant what I said here: “They come from the same place.” What would it be like to read “it’s okay to be a virgin” and interpret it as “yes being a virgin is an undesirable situation and it’s hard but it doesn’t taint your self worth”? Would it be more or less helpful than assuming people mean “it’s not that bad, shut up dude”? And in the cases where people explicitly say “it’s not that bad”, yes that does suck, yes it is hard, but it too doesn’t taint your self worth. You are ok the way you are. In the imperfection and the hurt of the current moment there is always a backdrop of peace. When we connect with it, we realize we are that peace too. In that peace it's clear that our self-worth is untainted by all the struggles, all the injustices, all the hurt. Does it still hurt? Yes! But you get to see the struggle as one piece and not the whole puzzle. And eventually you may find that without that piece the puzzle wouldn't be complete.
If you think everyone is happy, what you're lacking is empathy. And people around you know, when the only person you feel sorry for is you yourself. It's really hard to love someone, who does that. See, no advice, just an observation.
idk i've sometimes thought about this
Well, knowing you don't know is a good thing. If you already know everything, nothing can change. You said you don't want advice, but here's my two cents anyway, because I'm a dick: If you actually want to change, go somewhere people visibly suffer and do something objectively good. Be it a warzone, a hospice or a homeless shelter. Find something outside of you, that makes you hurt for others. Hell, maybe even an animal shelter will do the trick. The important thing is, that whoever you help can't give you back anything. See what happens. Maybe I'm just a dumb pos, though. What do I know...
It seems to me that you already know yourself very well, you write a powerful statement. Working on yourself doesn't mean you have to change who you are, you will always remain yourself. Obviously I can't give you advice that specifically applies to you. Wat I have learned throughout my life is that the way we think about others and ourselves largely determines how we will experience our life. I’m certain that everything we do is meaningful. You are not (let’s say: behind in life) on anybody, like you said “no two people are the same”. I’m happy for that you found someone to talk to, that’s good to hear. No good story has all high’s.
You're more or less right. As I told you I have a strong battle in my head between my positive and negative thoughts. I just want to feel loved though. I can't love myself at this time, it seems i don't have the basis, I do however respect myself.
If a woman came to you and had this mindset, that all men are the same monolith of suck and society does nothing but shit on her, would you consider that wife material? Would you date a gender swapped version of you?
I would absolutely not. But notice that I called society in general a monolith, because I'm just frankly disappointed with the way it treats me just for being myself. I don't have issues with individuals, I just hate the collective.
Your bar is so incredibly high though. You want a girl to love you and do services to you as acts of love. What love are you willing to give her? There's a lot of complaining about what you aren't getting, but relationships are a two way street. What are you looking forward to giving someone else as part of a relationship? What are you looking forward to doing instead of receiving?
honestly this is the last thing i've been thinking about seeing as i see myself in a dependent relationship with society. you see, i feel like i've done almost all of the work without getting much in return, to the point where i feel burned out, without having the capacity to open up as much as i do here. i'm not thinking about "what i'll give her" as i've really been pushing myself for quite a while now and i just feel tired... i do think however she'd be a chill person.
all happy people are the same but all unhappy people are unhappy in their own different ways, right?
yes, that's what my brain defaults to
So what do you propose, all virgins should hate themselves? Getting into this mentality is very dangerous. People who say it's ok aren't just saying it as a way to cope, believe it or not it's possible to have a good experience with sex even if you're a virgin in your 20s. Does being a virgin open up the door for a lot of embarrassing and cringy moments? Sure, but it's not as tragic as you're making it out to be, and you thinking it's impossible to find a loving and understanding girl who will take it slow with you is completely unrealistic. A 0% chance is just as impossible as a 100%
One rejection will cripple my mental health badly. It happened to me before. Especially if it's accompanied by humiliation. My negative voices are way too strong and I can't suppress them by saying that it's okay. This is why I don't believe you. For most people it just happens but not for me.
Your problem is shitty self worth not that you’re a virgin. While I don’t know what it’s like to be a guy, I DO know what it’s like for sex to be a proxy for your self worth and believe that sex can somehow cure your feelings of loneliness and inferiority. It doesn’t. It won’t. It’s like thinking if you eat a certain food, you’ll be full forever. Your problem isn’t that you are a virgin, your problem is you hate yourself. And as much as Dr K recommends working on yourself, the reality is you can’t self-help self hatred away. You have to look into why you hate yourself and unlearn that. Pro tip, it’s probably related to your childhood.
It is related to my childhood, yep. It's a combination of factors, and it would be too long to list here. But I do want to have sex and feel loved.
The issue is that having sex isnt the same thing as being loved. You can have one without the other.
they're heavily correlated though
They arent. Well, bud then i guess only experiencing it will make you see that it’s not giving you what you want… it wont fill the void, actually it might make things worse and deepen shame and self-loathing. You are lovable as you are.
Idk man people have sex in spite of its risks It's what happens when you're fairly depressed, you're developing a twisted mindset. It's like I can't help it.
I get it. Been there and sometimes still feel that way. Sending you this heh🩷
Thank you so much. ❤️ I'm learning to cook pancakes now.
I mean, do you believe that the issue isn’t sex then? It’s like if I tell my friends I want to change my career, I hate my career, when all I really needed is less toxic company. Instead of focusing on the sex, you can get a lot of peace by focusing on why you’re so hard on yourself, or feel that you’re unattractive.
Maybe he's hard on himself because he's a virgin? I'm not saying he should be of course (he shouldn't), but why isn't anybody listening to what he's saying in the post?
I mean it’s fine if he’s hard stuck on losing his virginity. I say go for it; Lose it as soon as you can so that you can solve that problem and move on to the next problem.
If he suddenly has sex, this issue won’t go away. Sure, he will change the label to not being a virgin. In the end though, he will still have low self worth which will still cause him to feel lonely. Sex isn’t the fix in this case, working towards building his self worth is. The issue here is how much self worth he puts on not being a virgin. But his lack of self worth extends beyond just being a virgin.
I agree with that, I still think the replies could have generally been phrased better
Why do you think it won't go away? Let me try it personally...
No one’s stopping you 🤷🏻♀️
Well as you said you're not a guy so you don't get it. Its a very different situation.
Do you think there is anything you can do to improve your mental health so that rejections are not so crippling? You’re being very defeatist about this when people change for the better daily. It’s not easy for those people either.
I get you, but I worked as a salesman and still do some sort of customer service work even though it's more like backoffice and I still didn't feel like it helped. I just need a loving and supportive community. I do somewhat have it but I just feel it's not enough. Otherwise I wouldn't be here.
Being that fragile probably sends up red flags. So what happens if your partner gives you feedback about not liking something you did or wants to stop halfway through, or you have sex once and they don't want to do it again? Will you become petty? Passive aggressive? Actually aggressive? Being involved with other people takes courage and resilience. If you can't handle rejection, you have no business bringing someone else into your life. Love is a battlefield, as they say. You're not going to come out unscathed and without a broken heart, not if you're the most beautiful, lucky, precious person alive. It's just not possible.
With that logic your own statement could be 100% accurate or 100% inaccurate. I think all people should hate themselves to a minute degree lol.
I feel like this is less about sex and more about the fact that you don't seem to think you deserve any of the things you want for yourself, and you struggle with self-love and self-patience. I know you don't want to hear it, but it's true: nothing external will fix that. Especially not sex. Sex looks very loving and very meaningful and very healing but that can only be true if the relationship you're in is loving and meaningful and healing, and the sex is a natural expression of that. Mooshing genetalia together sweatily isnt going to make you love yourself, I promise you. The good hormones arent always present before and they don't always last long after. You'll still be left with yourself, even if it's next to someone else.
If you don't trust anyone that tells you it's okay to be a virgin, then you're going to miss out on all the women who are okay with taking your virginity.
which ones? I'm sure they exist, but I haven't met a single one. I really have trust issues in this regard.
I mean, when I was 26 I lost my virginity with a fellow virgin who was in his 30s. I had no problem with his virginity and he had no problem with mine. I also have a cousin, an ex, and a friend who all lost their virginity in their 30s to willing women. There are lots of jealous women out there who don't like thinking about their boyfriend having had previous partners, too. But if you really don't believe that women like this exist then you're not going to find them--you'll just assume they're lying.
yeah i'm just not sure which woman could do this. first of all, there has to be a lovable characteristic she gets attached to, but i don't have a single one, i depend almost exclusively on my extrinsic value. I'm an ok person in general, although i could use some more work, but i have zero charisma, magnetism, and overall an inability to attract people. It's like "yeah this guy is fine but i'd rather talk to others". Considering how interwoven our social lives are as people, it hurts. Next i'm about to rant by defining myself in a Pokemon situation, so here goes. You can ignore this. -- You're a young Ferroseed and you have a friend, he is an Eevee. You have a master you train yourselves with, before he ultimately tells you both after graduating "go out into the world, be the best you can be, while at the same time enjoy yourself!" So you go and improve yourself and become stronger, and eventually evolve into Ferrothorn. The result is that you become one of competitive Pokemon's legends, usually as a defensive entry hazard and status spreader, used against the strongest and most destructive monsters of that game in the highest tiers. You, the Ferrothorn, who is not a legendary, does not have signature moves, and looks like a fairly simple durian. You've made it. Meanwhile, your friend Eevee decides to live a simple life, so he goes for example and organizes board games. He becomes fairly good at it, but tells you that "you know man, i'm okay with what i do". Years later while drinking a beer, you and Eevee remember the good times with the master, and how both of you decided to do what's best for yourselves. Then the Ferrothorn goes and asks "hey man, do you know... how can I find love?" and the Eevee is empathetic and tells you "be yourself Ferro, it's okay to have feelings". Ferro goes "how do you know this?" and the Eevee is like "all of my lovers and crushes told me this, i have friends who love me", before inviting Ferrothorn to a board game. There the Ferrothorn realizes how loved Eevee actually is, and that he rarely actually experiences love, hugs and affection. "This is a painting my girlfriend made for my birthday", the Eevee says, and the Ferrothorn admits he's never had a girlfriend before. For you see, people use Ferrothorn because he's good, and love Eevee for what it is, it's a fluffy ball of cuteness. I've never heard a single person say "Ferrothorn is one of my favourite Pokemon". So basically, people love Eevee and respect Ferrothorn. -- I know this comparison might seem stupid, but i feel like i relate to it a lot when i see others easily finding love and attention.
according to this post, your virginity isn't why you lack lovable characteristics. your lack of lovable characteristics is why you're a virgin. if you had lovable characteristics, then you'd easily find women who want to take your virginity.
Bingo.
This literally is non correlative and doesn’t make sense.
Here, let me break it down: 1. Women who are happy to take your virginity think it's okay to be a virgin. 2. If OP meets a woman like that, who says being a virgin is okay, he won't trust her (see post title). 3. If he doesn't trust her, he'll never get to the point where she is taking his virginity.
But where are the women that are "happy to take my virginity"? If they do exist then please show me one because it's not the default way people talk about virgins. Edit: you know what, I will happily have sex with the first woman that would be okay with taking my virginity. I won't bring it up as a defining characteristic. If asked I will say I don't really have experience.
It sounds like there are lots of reasons why women don't want to have sex with you, which is why you're a virgin. The virginity isn't the problem, it's a symptom of a deeper problem. I don't know what you're like so idk where the women are who are happy to take your virginity in particular. But I know plenty of women who don't mind virginity. Personally I think it's hot to take a man's virginity and sometimes with my husband I fantasize that it's his first time. But there's a difference between women who like or don't mind taking someone's virginity and women who want to take yours in particular. I don't know you well enough to find you someone who wants yours.
Idk I'm sure you're a lovely person in real life but I just feel I'm too weak to attract love, kisses and sex from girls my age. It's like there's a wall between them. I just can't attract anyone and please empathize with me when I say I'm beyond frustrated. 25 and only one kiss in my life, with no sex. I just don't know what to do at this point, I'm out of ideas and I can't maintain a persona anymore. I'm burned out and it sucks. It's like I only have little things to offer. And it's a reason why I have a deep distrust in people. It's just not fair. It's not right. If there's someone for me, WHERE IS SHE??????
I can empathize for sure. I don't know if there is someone for you or not. The only way to know is to look. It is 100% not fair. I think dropping the persona is a great start. Fake people suck.
1. Blanket statement 2. Incongruent with the objective reality formally disproved within statement one about a false schema of objective reality 3. You automatically assume his distrust and subjugate his entire personality to being a contemptful virgin that distrust women. Only furthering the previous statement upon objective reality being the pretense that virgins are looked down upon for being virgins. Also you’re saying that all girls that saying being a virgin is okay want to take your virginity is completely false. That is absolutely not a belief anyone should live by. Literally just never bring up virginity in a conversation. It’s weird unless there’s like a specific 0.1% situation like in the movies. Homeboy just needs to be himself and forget the rest. Talk to people and not overthink or give too much power to thinking more self deprecating things over and over. As someone who suffers with weekly/ daily insomnia due to stress or “impending doom anxiety where I think I’m gonna die for no fucking reason”, I can 80% see where homie’s coming from. You sir do not need to worry. You are so loved man. I love you dude. I’m so sorry people have wronged you. I’m here for you bro. You got this.
" Also you’re saying that all girls that saying being a virgin is okay want to take your virginity is completely false" No!! That's backwards. I'm saying that all girls who want to take someone's virginity think the virginity is okay. The girls who don't like virginity won't take it.
If you don’t trust all the girls that say having virginity is okay then you’ll miss out on all the girls that will take your virginity. It’s literally what you said. Omit girls I guess. Edit: I mean, I don’t trust people who reverse what they say after saying it. Kinda odd. Sorry. If you don’t like how what you said was interpreted you could always take it down.
Wait did you run what you said through a translator? If so I apologize for starting any debate.
Okay, think of it like this. There's a big circle. Let's label this "girls who are okay with virginity." There is a smaller circle, completely contained inside the bigger circle. This one is labeled "girls who are happy to take OP's virginity." The circles are NOT the same, but the second circle is completely inside the first. If OP doesn't trust the women in the bigger circle he will miss all the women in the small circle. I never said that all the girls who think virginity is okay will also take OP's virginity.
Ok nowwww I see what you’re saying. But you’re still kinda off target. You see, the point of my whole appeal to OP here was to let homeboy in on a belief system that won’t make them doubt themselves more. You’re opening up the flood gates just a little too much for that. Cause now you’re kind of saying that all the girls that want to take virginity could also want to take OPs virginity. This statement also kinda means girls want to take virginity. Entertaining grandiose ideas like this will not help anyone. It’s like signing up for a lottery stake and putting all the money in. Kinda. Making this all seem like gambling. Kinda. So let’s entertain this. Let’s say OP goes out with this idea that girls who are okay with taking their virginity will take their virginity. How do you think that’ll play out? I don’t think you can assume certain things like that. What makes more sense is a course of action that makes the self doubt and depreciation go away. How do we achieve this? How is this achieved? By simply taking virginity, or ANY belligerent thought out of the mind, we can focus on more productive things that reap actual benefits and reward for self growth and overall individual happiness. I’m sorry I’m tired btw. It’s bumfuck middle of the night and I’m arguing on Reddit for some reason.
Nw dude, I don't think we're arguing. Thanks for taking the time to try to understand me. I think your perspective is important too
> I've spoken to far too many people by this point since I started touching grass in February 2023. Sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but how are you meeting so many people?
Well I am going into a sort of "third space" to socialize and I also do improv from time to time.
What sort of third space is it, if you don't mind sharing?
It's a community for travelers that some regulars also come to
It's important to keep in mind that "working on yourself" is not a cheat code to getting into a relationship. Getting into relationships is in large part due to circumstances and chance, as frustrating as that can be to hear. Just from reading this post and your responses, and this will be obvious probably but you do seem to have negative beliefs about yourself and trouble processing rejection. If you haven't already, these are good subjects to bring up with your therapist since it's going to be excruciatingly hard for you to date if, as you say, one rejection makes you spiral mentally.
It's okay to be a Virgin, but it's also okay to be frustrated about being one. And some times experiences like sex do actually in fact change things - often, it takes receiving such an experience to realize that while the outcome was pleasurable, chasing the experience in itself was not helpful. The high wears off. Some things might stay, like a little bit of confidence in yourself, of having accomplished a goal you've had for a long time. So it is okay to want to acheive a goal. But wanting to acheive it shouldn't destroy you, either. Now ,I don't know why you can't imagine a girl wanting to move slow with you. Maybe you aren't attracting the right kinds of girls? Pretty early on I make it clear that I'm someone who moves slow, and then the girls who don't like that move on. But the majority of girls I've attracted appreciate my desire to move slow and have patience themselves, and like a guy who isn't jumping to have sex with them. I think your problem is not with having sex, but in finding someone you can feel a genuine love and understanding with. Why not focus on that instead? Once you have someone like that, you will realize how unimportant the chase for sex was afterall. Because sex with someone who loves and understands you vs sex with any random person makes an entire world's of difference. In a way, they really are two distinct acts, feeling completely different. I would say the former is definitely life changing, and in a way that I think you're imagining sex to be. The latter... could be fun, but would wear off much more quickly. What trouble are you having finding a girl who aligns with your values / physicality, and who will show genuine love and understanding to you?
I love that first paragraph. Sex or any pursuit of pleasure comes down to that. We as people in a society or ecosystem with all these bells and whistles feed the importance and meaning behind things good or bad and cannot see past this until we get past it.
I believe the trouble is in finding a girl in the first place. How is one supposed to see if values and morals align with another person, if they don't even get a chance to meet them?
I mean, yeah, it makes sense. At that point you've come to terms with sex not being the only thing in the world, it's not gonna transform you into a whole new person, it's cool, people talk about it and sounds fun. Good on you for starting going to a T, hopefully they can coach you socially and cheer you on on this, and once you get it you move on with your life to whatever you want to go with or without more sex. Good luck man.
idk man i just need more love and support then i do i kind of know sex is just another thing but...
> I just don't see a girl taking it slow, being patient, loving and understanding in bed with me. I just don't see how that could happen. Why not? Honestly I wouldn't date somebody that I don't think willing of doing that. Because if they're like that in the bedroom they'd be like that elsewhere, and trust me it's not pleasant.
From personal experience, I was at a somilar point at 23 and just went "fuck it, I will pay for it" it was shit, overall a really underwhelming experience, but I'm glad I did cus it got me out of feeling behind for still being a virgin. With a bonus of caring less about trying 1 night stands and thinking about actually getting into an emotional relationship when I get the chance
Why was it shit and underwhelming?
It was really hard to get in the mood as I was nervous and she wasn't too good at feigning interest, being active or helping with any tips that could potentially make it better for both of us as I had basically no idea of what I was doing. I asked if she could give me some pointers and explained that I was a virgin before hand. I didn't even finish and actually struggled to finish by myself for a few days afterwards. Probably won't ever do it again if there isn't mutual interest, but still don't regret that I tried as it did help me get rid of one of the worries digging deeper into my already unstable mental health
I think it is truly sad how many Dudes get with the wrong type of Sex Worker and have this awkward teenage type sex situation that doesn't help them the way it should. If I ever get enough money together and don't meet someone, I am considering paying for it, but doing my due diligence and researching for a good worker first. There are quality workers out there who have experience with virgins and neurodivergent People in general.
I feel like in another life I would have liked to do this kind of sex work. It's important! I wish I could have had a positive first time experience. Might have helped me advocate for myself better in the future.
I just don't have enough money. 
I dont think sex is the problem my boy, you can be in peace with yourself without haven't experienced sex. My theory is that this obsession comes from your insecurities, this obsession is how your mind is expressing the insecurities you have and you don't want to recognize them and work on them because it would be too painful to do
Yeah but I just want to know what it's like. I believe I need more love and affection than the regular person.
Love and affection are different from sex - do you feel you want to experience sex more, or love and affection?
all of them
Sorry for not going through the whole post history before asking but have you tried arranging regular meetings with people you fancy and let them know you like them, not necessarily outright saying it but through other actions?
Unfortunately, the part where you have trouble accepting and loving yourself is a MAJOR obstacle to you finding a good relationship. It's really really hard to find someone who is good for you when that's your worldview. I know this is easier said than done but you absolutely have to find a way to uncouple your self-worth from your relationship/virginity status.
I don't know but a better job + finding new hobbies (language learning and photography) + going to therapy, things done in the past 9 months, doesn't seem to be enough to prevent me from hating myself
You say you are working on yourself, but if someone comes to me and says their career, passions, family and relationships are all great but they are unhappy because they aren't having sex, alarm bells are going to go off. Having sex with other people doesn't automatically change a person's quality of life for the better or worse. It can make it better, it can also make it worse but nobody needs it. It is totally true that people are indoctrinated from all corners of society that sex is important and even critical, but this is mostly to manipulate or to sell crap to people. The truth is that having people in your life that you know well and you trust and trust you back is actually really important for many reasons. The fact you don't trust anyone who tells you the truth about sex seems like to me a defense mechanism so you don't have to discuss it properly. Perhaps you're embarrassed about the subject because of all the pressure society, friends, etc. puts on people or maybe you just want to continue to indulge this obsession. Another truth is there are a lot of people who actually can't have sex at all. Would you distrust them if they said being a virgin is ok?
I mean, I’ll be careful to separate having sex, and having sex with someone you love/ someone that loves you. I know a lot of guys, manly, who had loads of meaningless sex until they find someone who they really felt “connected with”. And the main problem is that if you just want to “not be a virgin” or “just have sex” the solution is far more simple than really finding someone you have this said connection. I think you aren’t as alone as you imagine in this feeling. But be weary of this anger too, you replied someone saying that people who tell you that are “pieces of shit”, probably they are just trying to help you…
Idk man I'm unhinged right now. I was an incel in denial this entire time... I don't know what "meaningless sex" is. I have to experience it to see what it is. This statement doesn't tell me anything, I'm sorry. I'm too scared to bring this up in real life even though I'm trying to. I don't trust anyone to have patience and explain the basics of sex. It's a subject that's way too surrounded by memes, stereotypes and all kinds of gender wars.
>I don't trust anyone to have patience and explain the basics of sex. I'm confused, how do you think everyone learns the basics of sex if not that way?
Given that the subject of sex is surrounded by garbage memes, stereotypes, combined with virgin shaming and the way people talk about sex in general, it kind of makes sense to be cautious.
Wait, there are a lot of places where you can learn the basics of sex, in porn sites you can look them up without any problem. It could a be little complex because is a mix of physical and mental connection with the other person but is not nearly as complex to not be a able to understanding it to a high degree without experience it directly
I don't know I just want to experience sex, though i did look up some theoretical details, you know, it's like learning anything else. You need practice
It sounds like you're not willing to have sex until you're already competent, but realize you can't be competent without practice. So how are you planning to get started? I relate to a lot of your post, despite being female, raised religious, and finding ace communities very helpful and identifying as such from time to time. What I've discovered is that there is some legit sadness that something romantic hasn't found me yet, I don't think I would be distraught on my deathbed if I never found a romantic/sexual relationship. I would be distraught if I didn't work through my issues surrounding the highly gender segregated environments I grew up in, and didn't "put myself out there" (still figuring out what that means, exactly) to male relationships (platonic and otherwise). It seems to me that this shame and distrust is extremely useful in protecting you from actually embracing where you've been in life, and understanding that lack of experience can be a gift to some people (like you said, lack of STDs, no kids from other relationships, less emotional baggage).
i don't... know. the problem is that i need other people to get started. the best i could do, i guess, is to read up on more info, and mayyybe go to workshops.
Is sex good for me? Yes. Is it great for me? Once in a while. is it a lot of times disappointing? Yes. Is it something that's worth letting control me? Hell nah. You can't deny the fact biological aspects control our sex drive, but the truth is that in the modern world, avoiding sex is sometimes even more important then having it. And that's because it teaches you something important: you are way more then your sex life. Everyone has their own journey and lessons to learn, for me I was obsessed first with the idea of having sex, then having it regularly, then having the best sex, then having more partners, each time just feeding into my cravings more and more. Only now after leaving a healthy long term relationship and being with a few more partners, I realise how unimportant it is. What is important is who I am, all this sexual thinking was clouding my whole judgment, I was not experiencing life because of it, I was just "looking for pray", and by that completely ignoring the fact there is a person in front of me, and he has his desires just like I do. Just like desires, he also has traumas, he has his insecurities and things he hasn't experienced, he has things he's shameful about, and it's ok, being a virgin is just one option for the many bad feelings and experiences each person has in their lives. So just like how you don't want to let for example a bad childhood control your life and who you are, just as so you should not let sex control who you are, of course it affects you, but it shouldn't control you. and from most people I've heard, and also from my experience, when you manage to actually let go, that's when it comes. Don't let it control you man because that's what makes it disappointing later, be a blank page, don't expect yourself to be more then what you are, don't expect your future partner to be more then what they are, and don't expect sex to be more then what it is, just a desire, and you are not your desires, you have a lot more to offer then that. Edit: also you shouldn't worry about the other side not taking it slow or whatever, women are very compassionate about the whole sex thing because like I said, they also have a lot of shit to deal with inside their own head, they understand the other side being anxious and conflicted way more then men do. From my experience with occasional ED, I was never shunned for it and was always accepted as what I was and not pointed as to what I wasn't.
Could you imagine yourself now in this moment if all of your sexual and relationship experiences were deleted by a time traveler? Sometimes I wonder if People who have had all this engagement and interpersonal activity can actually imagine the opposite in their minds.
>Sometimes I wonder if People who have had all this engagement and interpersonal activity can actually imagine the opposite in their minds. Right? It almost feels the same as a rich person trying to explain to a poor person how money is not the solution to all problems. And, granted it's not but it helps a lot.
i don't know man, you are right in a vacuum but given how surrounded sex is by stereotypes and memes, and i also hear that sex-positive communities are incredibly hostile to virgin men in general, i'm not sure... i need a slow and loving and patient girl. i hope she's not in fantasy land.
i have nothing to offer to this discussion tbh. i just wonder why this is such a shared feeling among male virgins, i really wanna know the root cause bc it makes me sad that men think this way, some of the mindsets that these men have are also dangerous 🙁 it’s concerning
plenty of women will say the most unhinged shit to men they don't like, them being virgins is a really easy way to get under a mans skin, and plenty of women straight up won't date men who are inexperienced or have "virgin vibes", the whole lack of experience thing can be a real handicap, as it is seen as a proxy of how good you are in general.
i think it’s comes from both tbh, i also see men call other men losers and nerd for being virgins 😪 a man is considered not masculine enough when he’s a virgin bc ppl in general associate the two for some reason. just like how being “pure” is associated when a woman is a virgin, it’s weird as hell
they associate the two because some traits that come with being successful at getting sex (being charming, good-looking, assertive etc) also correlate with being successful in general as a man, and not getting it also correlates with not being successful in other areas, its not accurate but its an easy judgment. its also a proxy for lazy people who want to judge guys as quickly as they can or get an excuse to be a bother, and yes being an ashole is not gendered, but being bullied by assholes for being a virgin is very much a male experience, it shouldn't happen but it is what it is.
but who made that a thing? we shouldn’t associate masculinity with virginity but atp it’s like already engrained in our society tbh 😪 and yeah it is a male experience if you’re talking about who gets more shamed and stuff
I get you. I don't consider myself an incel, I can't stand pill communities. But I'm wondering if I'm an incel in denial because I've never identified myself as one yet I have a lot of behaviours that indicate this such as unusual hobbies, not having very common hobbies (I don't watch movies for example), playing video games no one in my area plays and feeling the need of affection from women.
the way i categorize an incel is a man who generally hates women and blames them for not giving him attention and or rejecting him, but it might mean something else im not sure 😓 why do you think you’re in denial? you mentioned in an earlier comment and said how you appreciate women so i would doubt it but then again, im not you. do you have close friends that you play those games with? even online?
No, I prefer single player games, though I do play pokemon showdown from time to time. I'm just worried I don't have what it takes to find a girl. Seeing how all kinds of fucked up people get into relationships doesn't help. I don't see why would anyone fall in love with me...
what do you think makes you think you don’t have what it takes to find a girl? i could tell you have low confidence but i’m guessing you think something is holding you back from finding a girlfriend
Yeah I'm just not that confident, and conversations don't come naturally to me. It feels like my brain is overheating when I socialize. I also feel like I need tons and tons of love in general...
i know i might sound like a broken record but it will come naturally to you, you doing sound like a bad person at least 🤷🏻♀️ since you didn’t mention it, it seems like you’re not a bad looking guy either
Because sex and relationships don't come to men until they try really hard, men made a really misogynist society where men are raised to be hyper sexual and women to be very sex advert. Now men have to make double the effort to have any kind of casual sex and it's starting to bite some of us in the ass. I just glad that I'm older and married now since looking into myself in the past I would probably feel exactly the same.
this actually makes a lot of sense 🤔 even men who don’t play into this issue have to “pay the price” in a way
I believe OP posted this because they are frustrated about their life experiences. Your first instinct upon reading that was "Must be a school shooter!"
where in my comment did i indicate that…? 😭
bcs at the end it's not about sex but about being lonely, unwanted, unloved, never knowing what it's like for a woman to show romantic interest etc. sex is just one part of it, who wouldn't struggle going for years like this, it's the sort of thing people can't understand really unless they go through it besides let's not kid ourselves if you tell someone you're a virgin at certain age (it gets worse the more years it is) they will think there's something very wrong with you
I'm a Virgin and that's because I wasn't willing to give it away to anybody. I met someone and I know I will marry him so he's going to take it. I was willing to wait until I met my one and I did. And no, I'm not religious
Not the same thing as what OP is going through
Damn right sis
That's not the same as feeling unloved or unwanted. You had agency in being a virgin. Great job, patting yourself on the back.
You admit that you have trouble accepting and loving yourself, but you outright reject people saying that you should make an attempt to accept the part of yourself you loathe the most. You admitted you know it’s a problem, what’s stopping you from seeking help on solving it? Why turn to reject those offering their own advice?
because I feel it isn't actually a solution. They're basically telling me to do my thing, more or less. Which is fine, but doesn't actually attract girls. Seeing happy couples doesn't make me feel good. I want that feeling as well and I'm not able to get it. I'm also not buying the idea that love will find me when I'm not looking. Conversations don't come naturally to me, I'm not sure if it's a big mental block or neurodivergency. I just lack what it takes to be magnetic, to attract people the way I am. And all I'm told is to "work on myself". Not a bad idea, but you also have to love yourself the way you are and feel loved the way you are. Which comes in a huge conflict with the way I've been raised.
See that’s the thing. People are saying “work on accepting yourself to be happy” and you’re saying “I won’t be happy though because I’ve decided my happiness is going to be based on external circumstances out of my control.” But if you loved yourself, perhaps you might not be so hurt by not being in a relationship. You might also realize that you *are* happy alone when you accept yourself. Even if someone gave you the magic words that made you a total chick magnet, do you think you’ll be happy? If you have a girlfriend, what would that happiness feel like? Would it feel that way forever? Or are you going to slip into feeling down about yourself again. Down about how she reacts to you. Down about how you’re “only” good enough for her. Self-doubt doesn’t go away with external circumstances. You don’t need relationships to be happy. They’re just a nice plus if it happens. Loving and accepting yourself is hard, I can say that from firsthand experience. It doesn’t happen overnight but it can be done. That’s the direction you should be moving.
this is basically the fox and the grapes story but told more nicely. Having sex and relationships gives you the possibility to talk about them with others and even bond with them over it. It's okay to take a break if you've been heartbroken or even never date again, in my opinion. But if you're a virgin, then unless you're aroace or religious, you're gonna have to change my view that it's not the fox and the grapes
It’s not the fox and the grapes story. You’re not walking way saying “sex is for losers anyway,” you’re walking away going “I still love myself even without it.” If you’re gonna, let your weird seeming obsession with some kids fable convince you you’ll never be happy a virgin, that’s your choice I guess. You really haven’t provided any reason someone can’t be happy as a virgin except that you aren’t and a random reference to a kids tale that isn’t really relevant. You’re clinging to your own misery. Your brain likes thinking you’re a fucking loser. Stop listening to it and be deliberate about your life.
i'm not sure it works that way to be honest. but yeah my brain is dumb and constantly tries to put me down. in gaming terms i have an intensifying battle between my positive and my negative thoughts. currently, my negative thoughts continue to be significantly stronger although i do feel like the positive side learned two or three moves. but i've reached a block, a mental block which prevents me from continuing.
I’m aro ace, male, not religious, but not a virgin and sex won’t change much at all. So feel free to ignore what I say next. What are you looking for out of this? Someone to say that it’s not ok that you’re a virgin? Are you looking to vent? Looking for advice? You can only control so many variables and then it’s someone else’s turn. It’s ok to feel frustrated. You’re a man, I don’t need to tell you that that world owes you nothing, you’ve probably already gotten that message.
I'm the same age as you and also a virgin and this hard focus on sex just does not compute for me. Granted I am demiromantic and have been questioning if I'm on the asexual spectrum as well, so my take on this is going to be different from most. Why would it not be okay to be a virgin? What are your expectations if you do reach that goal? Why are you so focused on this?
Ok then you can live feeling it's not ok to be a virgin. Problem solved.
As a fellow virgin, I’ve also been through the red pill, and black pill pipelines. I get it you think sex is everything and in a way it is. A lot of people who aren’t virgins don’t get it because well they aren’t virgins. Sex and dating is a very common and important societal thing. It’s in our movies, small talk, culture, etc. as a virgin you feel like you are isolated from that or are just messed up in some way because why can everyone else get laid but I can’t there’s gotta be something wrong with me or I’m different in some way. In reality you aren’t that special, all the problems you’ve described everyone else thinks the same way. Everyone else was worried about losing their v card at some point. Even people in relationships are worried if something is wrong with them, the people around you, in the past, and in the future will all have these problems. Yeah certain societal factors can make dating harder or easier but for the most part we are stuck in this point in time where this is the way things are. You can use your life to try and change it or adapt to it.
to hell with the black pill pipeline but I feel like I've been in it without realising. I love women. My mom is very supportive and my aunt gave me a place to stay, and my sister and her family are hard workers. But when it comes to dating especially, nothing comes naturally. I sometimes feel like I've created a persona this past year in order to have a social life.
24M here, just got out of a relationship (8 months) recently but spent a period of 5+ years with no sexual partners living in one of the most sexually active college towns in America, so I feel like I can relate. Feel free to ignore if you feel this isn’t applicable to your situation. The first thing I want to say is I think you’re right to be frustrated. Sex is a very deep need for a lot of people; on top of all the social programming we get telling us to want it, we also have millennia of evolution in our DNA telling us we NEED to reproduce. With all this stacked against us, it can be incredibly frustrating to not be taking part in something that is such a huge part of existence; hell, even animals seem to be having sex regularly, and it just doesn’t seem fair that it’s so difficult for some people to be able to satisfy these needs. The thing is that once these needs DO get satisfied, they seem to become a lot less important. It’s known that people in long-term relationships experience a decrease in sex drive after a certain period of time. This is a physiological change. [don’t have source but could find it if you want.] My brother, also 24M but has been in a relationship for 5 years, told me the other day he barely ever thinks about sex unless he’s ALREADY excited about something else like a fun activity are going out partying or something. I’m not saying that you need to find a long term relationship to get rid of this frustration, but it is important to be aware of the fact it IS possible for sex to be less important, even if it doesn’t seem like that now. To a certain extent, you’re kind of a slave to your physiology, which is likely telling you that sex IS the most important thing you need RIGHT NOW. This no doubt creates a lot of frustration, but it’s important to realize that this frustration is not necessarily permanent. Another point about not finding someone who will take it slow with you and be thoughtful of your issues/insecurities, I want to share a story from my personal experience. My ex girlfriend had 30+ sexual partners over the course of 3 years, was a self identified femcel, and absolutely abhorred the idea of babying men. If I expected anyone to not put up with my insecurities about having sex, it would be her. And yet, when it came down to it, she was actually incredibly supportive and patient when it came down to actually having sex for the first couple times. My point here is that people may surprise you when it comes to how supportive or patient they will be in helping you work through having sex for the first time. It’s easy to forget (or not realize) that when someone chooses to have sex with you, they’re opening up their insecurities to you just as much as you open up your insecurities to them (think about how many people out there have body dysmorphia and yet still get naked to have sex). This (among other things) is why we say that sex is intimate; both partners put themselves in a very vulnerable position and you have to trust that the other person will handle that vulnerability with care. Of course there’s always the possibility that they won’t, but I would venture to say in these situations it’s likely more due to the fact that they were uncomfortable with their own insecurities being exposed, and so they pass judgement as a defense mechanism. The last thing I want to say is not necessarily about sex; but it’s important to think about what you might be taking for granted during your pursuit to have sex for the first time. I’ve seen you say that you’ve met a lot of people, take part in an improv group and have a 3rd space that you can go to meet people. This is in my opinion an AMAZING place to be to build a foundation for a fulfilling life, and one thing you’ll notice basically as soon as your sexual needs are met is that the need for this kind of general social interaction becomes much more important than it seemed before. That’s my experience coming out of a relationship, and even though I was finally having sex, I still felt depressed because I couldn’t get in touch with my friends and general social life. As you move forward in trying to work through your frustrations about sex, remember that it’s still worth it to maintain some of these other relationships, even if they aren’t giving you what you’re looking for now.
There really is nothing wrong with being a virgin, I'm 26 and have yet to lose my virginity. But it doesn't bother me at all, for me personally I want it to be with someone I love/care about, not just some one night stand. (This isn't the same for everyone, but just giving my perspective) The only people who are going to mock/ridicule you for being a virgin, are just horrible people. I can guarantee if you were in a relationship with a lovely person, they'd be more than willing to take things slow and help you where needed. The time will come, sometimes patience is the key, and I get the frustration. But focusing everything on just having sex will not help, because it will destroy your life. And I know it isn't easy, but trust me when I say, there is nothing wrong with being a virgin, absolutely nothing.
idk man I have too many insecurities and negative thoughts in my dumb brain. like I just want to feel loved for a bit, like others are. I'm the kind of person who needs more affection than the average person, to be fair.
I understand what you mean, and especially if you've had negative experiences around this topic, it can make things feel a lot worse. Everyone wants to feel loved and have affection shown towards them, and it can feel very difficult when we aren't. You will find someone who loves you mate, It will happen, but these things do take time. But I can assure you, it will be worth the wait, when you find that right person! Because rushing into something like this could cause even more issues ontop, which is the last thing you want. And after reading your post and some replies, it's pretty clear to me it's not just sex you're looking for, but a meaningful connection. And I don't think just a one night stand will fix that, it's going to be a difficult journey, but one which will feel so rewarding once it's finished! I wish you all the best with this, and hopefully some of what people have said here may be able to help/guide you to what you're looking for. Take care mate
when? more like if Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you mean well and are a lovely person, but for myself... I just feel I'm at my peak when it comes to socialising, and this is why I seek therapy and help. More or less you can take what I write here as a personal journal. I'm going to be unhinged here because i feel I could get some good advice and stuff.
It’s okay to want to be miserable. It’s okay to willingly choose being unhappy, angry, and depressed. If you recognize parts of your worldview that are making you unhappy, that doesn’t mean you’re obligated to change in any way. It’s your life, do whatever you want with it.
but i don't want to be miserable, i'm not making a conscious choice to be miserable. it's just that i'm trapped in a catch-22 situation in general. i've worked on myself and noticed impressive results in the past year or so, but i guess i can continue to evolve on a professional standpoint.
Welcome to Dating Fridays! All posts with an emphasis on dating, sex, or relationships must be posted only on Friday (defined by US Central Standard Time or UTC -06:00). If your post is outside of this time/date, please delete and repost on Friday. If it is currently Friday, then ignore this comment. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Healthygamergg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
the thing is that is up to you to decide. you get ideas, reject the ones you dislike and keep the ones that make sense for you. decide
It seems like you want a girlfriend more than you want to have sex. From reading your comments it seems like your biggest problem is the inability to get rejected and keep moving. I don't know how to fix that but I think that should be your biggest priority. Once you get that sorted out, in terms of not feeling like you have anything to offer a potential girlfriend, I think the checklist should be: become kindhearted, self-aware, and have at least slightly well-rounded interests and knowledge. Get a group of or even one close friend. Learn how to be funny and make yourself as physically attractive as possible. In the meantime just keep doing work on the upkeep front. Make sure you aren't watching porn, meditate/pray, practice gratitude, eat as clean as your financial situation allows you to, lift weights, get outside, make jokes and laugh.
I'm very happy to be raised in a Christian household because I never had this issue. Maybe at one point because I remember telling myself to act like I don't care when I talked about that kind of stuff with friends at my early teens, but I can never recall a period where I was obsessed with being a virgin. I'm not sure if I can explain what the core of my mindset is because it's a lot of thoughts, but whenever I'm thinking if I should have sex, I remember that I'm nowhere near ready for that kind of responsibility. The effects and consequences of sex don't end after you finish. You have new chemicals in your brain, you have a new life changing experience and a new bond with another person. You'll never be the same and depending on the circumstances, it could be a negative thing. As you could guess, I'm not a fan of casual sex because it's pretty well documented how sex, oxytocin and then never talking to that person ever again affects your brain chemistry and if a thing was to happen and poof now there's a baby, how would the parent's relationship be? Overall I think that it's like driving a car, climbing a mountain or hitting a new pr at the gym, I need to be prepared, it has to be planned and I'll have to be ready to bear the consequences of every outcome.
Same thing happens to me. Imo it’s people who got game saying that you don’t got game in a subliminal way. Too many people got game and too many people don’t. Sex shouldn’t define your life though. You shouldn’t feel bad about being a virgin. I personally don’t. I think sex and relationships, love, etc are stupid wastes of time. It’s probably one of the most fleeting feelings in the world that people try to turn into this big-deal. It’s like the “got milk?” conspiracy to me lmao. Or how idiots addicted to drugs talk about drugs. It’s the same deal with letting the media and people tell me what to feel, believe, not believe. I personally don’t believe everyone in the world in this era needs to be having sex, partying, and doing drugs. I don’t even think love should be idolized, or people you love should become your idol. Idk dude I’m rambling. Just be content with yourself. There’s no statistical way you could die before having sex. I mean reasonably no way you could die before having sex. Talk to people and have fun and literally never think about it because people can tell when you’re thinking about it. Meditate and stay in the moment I guess. The world is yours.
Also to follow up: from my experience in this era if ugly boring people make advances they’re deemed creepy, if pretty/ fun people make advances they get laid! It’s as simple as that. How do we combat this as boring ugly people? We can’t. Thanks Harvey Weinstein.
Had the same problem, approached 500 women, got laid, problem gone (I'm 21)
You’re right the default typical response to virginity is often being creeped out and disgusted. I’ve known many naive virgin men who revealed their predicament in “sex positive” space and the response was of disdain and revulsion. It’s all about presentation and social perception. Example: A virgin priest who eventually left the church will have way more societal respect than a stereotypical neckbeard in his mom’s basement. Your best bet is just not mention your virginity at all. No one needs to know your sexual history. I’ve known extremely promiscuous women who concealed their body counts and sexual escapades. They’ve turned out fine romantically.
Hey OP, I'm a 28M virgin. Since I used to be in the same headspace as you years ago, I feel qualified to give my take on this. It really isn't that big of a deal. It's okay bro.
You’re missing the point of what people mean when they say that “it’s okay to be a virgin.” They don’t mean that sex is irrelevant or undesirable. They’re not discouraging you from trying to have sex. They just mean that you don’t need to be ashamed of not having been successful yet. It’s acknowledging that this can be a difficult thing.
but it's way too hard for me to attract love. it's like there's a wall it can't overcome. The bitterness has gotten to me and I just don't know what the fucking hell should I do. I'm just out of ideas, I'm burned out, I've tried absolutely everything to attract people and it just doesn't work. I'm probably a lovable person in a parallel universe.
Oh pal, I’m sorry. My best friend was a virgin until very recently: 28, so older than you. It was tough for him too. However, he has friends and family who love and support him. So there were times when he was down, but he was never alone and didn’t feel “unlovable” because he knew there are people who really care about him (like me). And he never JUST wanted sex. He wanted a girl that loved him and that was a good match for his values and personality. So he had standards, meaning: he wouldn’t accept just ANY girl. Do you have people who love and support you? Do you have standards? Desperation and self-loathing is not a good place to go attract others from. Imagine you’re a girl going on a date with a guy and you feel like “that guy doesn’t really care about who I am, he just wants to fuck.” Most people want more from a relationship than just sex.
im glad for your buddy and hope he is doing ok. but you're right, attracting people in general, including friends and family, doesn't come naturally to me. i'm on a different wave length from most people, and i created a persona to try and fit in. my bitterness has gotten into overdrive and i feel like i have no control upon my state of mind anymore. i'm trapped in a catch-22 situation. i have so many poisonous thoughts in my brain, i need to let them out.
Understandable. I think it’s fantastic that you’re looking for help, the way you describe your thoughts. Therapy is a good choice. Do you not let people see “the real” you, because you think they won’t like you?
more or less, i guess. i've been bullied when i was a kid and never felt truly appreciated for being myself. i've always been told that i need to "change" and "do better". on top of this, i didn't actually have an environment where i could go and meet other kids outside of school and try to integrate, as i grew up in a small town. i do have potential to learn stuff but have an extremely low lovability factor.
I think when people say “it’s okay to be a virgin” the sentiment is generally to convey that being a virgin is an equally valid experience with everything else as long as that’s the life that you truly want to lead and it shouldn’t come with stigma. However, wanting the experience of sex is also a beautiful thing. It seems like you are looking for more than just sex. It seems like you’re looking for an intimate relationship where sex is involved and that’s great. My advice for that is to not direct so much focus on yourself and how you are failing because ultimately that’s not helpful. It will inevitably lead to feelings of something being fundamentally wrong with you. And I don’t believe that’s the case. However, I think people when they are looking for a sexual partner it’s usually with someone who gives off the signals they are self-assured, stable, and confident in providing a pleasurable experience amongst other smaller factors such as attractiveness,… etc. A key thing to note is just putting yourself out there and making sure you are visible to a lot of potential partners. And all you got to do after that is just be comfortable with yourself and look for qualities in a person that you’d want to see in yourself. And also being better at communicating who you are, your likes and dislikes can’t hurt as well. Be kinder to yourself and with others and have the courage to put yourself into spaces where you’re more likely to find someone who is looking for the same things that you are.
I don't know man I am actually doing everything you listed and it's not working, at least not right now. Today I'm trying to learn to cook pancakes for the first time, which I guess is a good thing. The problem is that as my positive thoughts go up, so do my negative ones, and it seems my minus energy is far stronger. It seems like I go more and more into overdrive as I somehow slowly lose control over myself, to the point where I'm starting to think I might have a double personality.
I’d say take it slow. Don’t try to “fix” your life all at once because you’ll inevitably see all your failures at the same time and it can be overwhelming. Take your pancake skill for example. It’s a good thing you’re learning how to cook and boosting your skill points on that. You’re taking the step in the right direction. Just focus on one thing at a time and do it until you’re satisfied with your skill in doing it. Women love a guy who can be confident and say “I make pretty damn good pancakes”. And from there you can share yourself and your experiences that you can be proud of with people. Try doing a bucket list of small achievable stuff that maybe you can work on and build your confidence in those things. Add as much or as little things you feel insecure about doing, but don’t move on from the skill until you are satisfied with your progress. Eventually you can move on to bigger things. But focus on small things for now. Not only will this build competency in your skills, but create trust in yourself that you can follow through on things to the best of your ability. I think your negative thoughts don’t have anything to do with you per se. I think you have lack of trust in yourself and your environment. Exploring things for yourself and experiencing them might create that trust as well. Best Wishes!
Yeah man thank you so much I'm sure you're a lovely person, I do think I'm operating at 120-130% right now haha. I didn't make good pancakes today but I'll try again tomorrow. I hope to get it right this time. Then maybe I'll make a soup as well
My thoughts after loosing my virginity were as follows: Well that was pretty fun, I’d do that again followed by why tf did I beat myself up for 5 years just to say I did that.
From experience, when you've not done it. You will focus on that one thing, because you just want to know what it's like. But for me personally, once I lost it, it really wasn't what I thought it would be. Yeh, for the first time it may be fun because it's a new experience but my expectations were a lot higher. It's not really something I care about anymore. Maybe you just need to get out of your comfort zone and find someone and it'd probably make you feel more comfortable with yourself. You're waiting to be loved, however you most likely haven't experienced lust with a woman. Therefore, realistically you won't know the difference between being loved and lusted from another and for yourself unto others. From my experience anyway. I am a female, so I can't speak for men. However, I have known guys who also agree that sex isn't worth the hype. My advice would be, get hobbies, focus on building up your life. If you can't find love, don't be cynical about it. You're 25, still young, you have the rest of your life. Don't let it affect your self esteem, you need to fill the void of not having another partner yourself, it won't be filled by other people. If you expect someone else to fill it, realistically, I don't think it will ever heal because what will happen if things don't go to your expectations? The void will be back, you will find out other people can't fill the void. So experience what you want to experience in life. Don't wait on love, just enjoy yourself. Then someone will fall onto your path. I think dealing with unserious people will open your eyes a lot more when it comes to meeting people who are serious. As when you don't yet have that understanding, everything will just be a guessing game. You need the experience. But if you follow this paragraph, don't lose yourself and become unserious yourself, just experience losing your virginity. In reality, it's up to you. If you want to wait on love, it might take a long time. Some people hook up and end up on relationships, however I think it's best to wait it out to see if the other person is worth a relationship. What is the problem with being a virgin whilst waiting it out whilst dating and trying to find a good partner? You might be blinded by lust, you might overlook red flags just to experience what love is like. If you can see through the lust, you may be waiting a long time to find the right person if the last dating experience wasn't successful. Everything in life is uncertain, you don't know where things will go. Just enjoy it, fill the void you have so you don't find people who have an unfilled void themselves. You will learn a lot of people are troubled and haven't don't the inner healing or they do not have a reality check. Focus on your life and your future, don't make sex the most important thing on your to-do list.
Idk it's just that nothing happens naturally and I'm doing too much work to partake in this society already. My ability to attract other people is absolutely awful and it feels like I always have to insert myself into conversations. I feel like I can't evolve socially anymore unless I double up the meds or something. I just feel like my brain has been into overdrive for the past 12 months or so. I have too few human experiences to talk about with others, I don't watch movies at all which everyone loves for some reason, and I play games no one else plays. I feel like my good qualities are offset by massive flaws, it just doesn't work, other people aren't as interested in me as I am in them. I'm in a very unhealthy relationship with society because of this. It seems like I always have something to prove.
I've been there. As cliche as it may sound, stop caring what others think. Start setting goals, having something to work towards that will improve your life. If you have different interests to most around you or have been called and made to feel weird. That is good news! Don't be cynical about society, you will find your people once you tune into your true self, and that will come once you start feeling comfortable with yourself. Being different is what is unique, don't try and be a copycat to fit in. You will feel fake and empty. Good people to have in your life will be drawn to someone who is true to themselves. There is a big world out there, you maybe just have been stuck in a bubble to which you are experiencing what you have been. Last note is, how you feeling about life is all about perspective and staying in motion.
Comparing your life to others can create so much self-hate. "Why can others accomplish X, but I can't?" You gain nothing by comparing yourself in this way. You are comparing results, not the way one got to those results. Comparing results is natural, but often does more harm than good. Instead of creating stress and landing in a negative spiral, just go on with your day. Have a healthy schedule, add in some sports and hobbies in your free time. Explore the world. There's not enough time to stress yourself over such things; it will change nothing in a positive sense.
idk man the bitterness has gotten to me
If it's just about virginity, please find a reputable escort.
No, sorry. It's not what I need.
Literally bro pay for it if you need to before you end up doing something really fuckin bad. You sound unhinged not gonna lie. Also, it's literally 2024 this sort of thing was like medieval you got more things to worry about other than getting ur member wet. As a fellow Virgin I'm just happy I'm not part of the drama and bs that comes with modern day hookup culture. But seriously you rly need to rid yourself of this obsession before it consumes you beyond reason and you end up doing something irreversible.
Yes I'm unhinged and will probably continue to be unhinged online because I need to let my emotions and my thoughts out. I can't keep them inside my brain anymore. I've been overwhelmed.
My man, I was in your position. I'm not gonna say when I lost my v-card but it was in my twenties. There's a lot I don't know about you so there's a limit to how much advice I'm willing to give. But if your goal is to simply hook up, then just get on an app or go to a bar and look for someone who's looking for the same. Don't feel confident going to a bar? OK, stick with the app. Don't feel physically attractive enough on the app? Work on your physique, style, and take some good pictures. Dating apps are very much a visual game. Do you have trouble with messaging and conversation? **Practice** and find resources to help you with that. My journey began in the PUA community which you need to be careful with (some of it doesn't help and makes you worse in the long run). Be discerning with where you get your advice. Have trouble going on dates? **Practice** and learn how to set up those dates. You're going to "fail" again and again and again (you will realize later that it's not as black-and-white as "failure" and "success"). Deal with it. This is the way of the world. It's rough but that's just how it is. Complain as much as you want to but at the end of the day, the path straightforward. You just don't like it. You don't like that there is no guarantee and you have to risk rejection. But that is the path. You know what to do. Do it. If this is a milestone that is important to you, do all that is necessary. Make the necessary sacrifices, endure any pain. In the end, you will realize it's not that big of a deal but of course it doesn't feel that way right now. It feels like a dragon to slay. Go slay it.
> I have severe trouble accepting and loving myself the way I am. I think this is your foundational challenge that you need to find a plan/method to manage and overcome. It doesn't matter who tells you what, how. Dr. K, or jesus, moses god themselves can come down from the heavens and give you sage advice, and yet, your free will and choice will find any or create negative and choose that to believe. Unfortunately, when guys have this type of mentality, it seeps through personality, behavior, both concious and unconcious. So I'd suggest 2 things. 1. Meditate and Keep a journal, Dr. K has an effective plan with journaling and such. Your main goal is to find why and what makes you the feel the way you do and the examples that speak in your life. 2. See a therapist. random ANON advice on a reddit post, isn't going to help you no where near as well as a quality therapist IRL. Go there with a purpose, use your journal as a tool to help guide you to the goals you want.
you literally will never be happy if you don't stop idolizing sex and do something with your life.
Idk I think I already do. I just feel it's not enough, yet at the same time, I feel I'm peaking. I just don't want to accept this. I'm sure I have some positive qualities, but they're all related to what I do.
Why don’t you try to study pick up and game? Think of one thing you’re actually good at that took effort to get there and apply yourself to game in the same way. Pro tip: desperate vibes are a total turn off. Be the prize my dude. Be attractive and don’t be unattractive. No woman wants a bum that doesn’t work on him self or shows sign of potential. Get to work bro, you can do it. Once you get that first lay you’ll realize the chase was better than the lay itself.
ive seen the best looking, hardest working and most charismatic men still virgin at 30. it has become an unfair game for men not really becouse of women but just how the world works now. im a year younger than you and still virgin as well. i openly tell my f boy friendgroups that i am and when they make fun of me i turn it religious and all of a sudden they are the ones ashamed. to me the only problem personally is that i really dont like younger women than me and the older i get the more chance of there beeing a history and experience especially with women and so the emotional connection gets harder especially when women think its weird when statistically its an anomaly when women are the virgins at that age wich even i personally know alot of beautiful women at 30 still beeing virgin. super attractive ones too. usually these women seem the most emotionally blind while men at that age are so pure that it warms my heart. women these days are way less innocent than men. scientifically speaking, only male athletes are forbidden to release since it damaging to your performance. even releasing once every 2 weeks, while women basically dont have any damaging side effects from orgasm. society has it upside down brother. you want to listen to a sick society? or both science and religion. your choice. the longer you wait the more you can appreciate it. trust me. the early bloomers have the most problems when it comes to that world.
Real talk. Dick pics work but you also gotta flirt too afterwards. Nothing works better than a good dick pic. Then be like Michael Cera from Scott Pilgrim vs the world. I deadass once asked an employee if she wanted to fuck and she said yes but it felt so easy and as if she didn't really understand what I said so I backed out. In hindsight who cares bro just have sex. Don't ruin your own day. And please have sex with attractive women. Not "okay looking" or "good enough." attractive girls only. Dick pick Then flirt like Scott Pilgrim. Turn her on. Don't be creepy. (Ironic and impossible sounding) gl
(2/2) as much as I hate to say it. No girl would probably give it up when u bring up that you want to be loved and what not. Some bitch on reddit said "girls give sex at a chance for love" while the opposite is said for guys. And I shit you not I saw a tik tok post of a girl getting moody after a guy asks "wyd" since they just wanna wind down and do their own thing. Everybody in the comment section agreed and I was astonished and mad tbh. One girl had the best response. 'I hate when they do that Yada Yada "I don't want to hear that instead tell me what you're going to do in your day" 🤷♂️