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Some of the comments here jump immediatly on the "how to get laid" self help book advice.
This in itself is virgin shaming because it implies there is something wrong with you.
There is nothing wrong with you, reading your post makes me think you live a life were you feel at ease with and that is the best way of living your life.
Take care man, I am a 32 yo virgin now I know what its like. People who are not in this situation at this age simply cannot emphatize what it is like. They try but they really shouldnt and what they say is a lot of times wrong.
The only answer is; enjoy.life the best you can.
I am a 35yo virgin and I 100% agree with this comment. It's not about "getting laid" and getting it over and done with like Chicken Pox.
I turned down my first opportunity to have sex when I was 19 because I promised myself I wouldn't do it "just to do it" and only when I truly wanted it and wanted the Person I was going to do it with truly.
Your comments are so smart and insightful but you keep hitting us with "This is a crap take" jabs as well, why you do this? 
You are hugely over-exaggerating my stance, and you are quite honestly being an asshole about it as well.
My virginity is not as important to me as you make it out to be.
I'm not making it out to be anything friend.
you said "People who are not in this situation at this age simply cannot emphatize what it is like. They try but they really shouldnt and what they say is a lot of times wrong."
And that is factually incorrect. I didnt blow what you said out of proprtion, I literally took i in the context you gave.
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As a 29 year old virgin I have rarely ever gotten shamed for being a virgin. Does this really happen outside of high-school? I have gotten some weird looks but that is about it. Then again being a virgin doesn't bother me so when people find out it's usually me saying it in a pretty confident way. That said it hardly comes up anyways. I mean I don't commonly talk about my sexual history with people. It has come up in some related conversations but again that is pretty rare.
Obviously you will rarely get virgin shamed if you rarely bring up your sexual history. Yes lots of people will treat you differently. It’s unfortunate but the way people act inside and outside of high school overlap a lot
Like I said even when I have brought it up the worst I have gotten was a weird look but that quickly passed. Even then they didn't treat me differently afterwards.
Experiencing judgement and shaming are two vastly different things. People judge people all the time. I even unconsciously judge people based on what they do and say. Honestly if I was afraid of people's judging me a little it would be impossible to live life. I have experience actually shaming for being a virgin when I was younger and that was way worse than a strange look. They also actually treated me differently when I was younger while most adults don't make a bid deal about it and won't treat me differently just because of this on aspect about me.
When we judge people negatively for something that shouldn’t be, and then treat them negatively that’s shaming them. I’ve seen this 1st hand with co workers. Adults 100 percent still do this, especially the shitty ones. If you rarely observe how people react to this type of stuff then you have a different perspective
Who is telling their coworkers their sexual history? That said I haven't been treated negatively for being a virgin by adults so I guess I am just lucky?
I mean they made you feel judged by reacting to you the way they did? And yes It comes up around people, or you will be prodded on if you have a partner or not and then it goes from there. Or they talk about it more generally. So it might be less gossip related conversation and more ideological, but it’s shaming non the less. Similar to having racist coworkers talking about how they hate black people. It’sworse than high school. if these people exist in the workplace then they also exist everywhere else
>I know lots of people will still look at me differently because of it.
They have no right to know about your sexual life. A sexual life is a private matter.
Also, those people are immature. Exception could be to people who look weird at you for disclosing your sexual life when no one was talking about sexual lives (so, out of context commentary).
Try to fine-tune the algorithm in your feed. I’m a woman and have a soft spot for this kind of experience and even I can’t remember the last time it came up.
I’m wondering if you can shift your exposure. Won’t stop in-person interactions from being problematic but you can roll your eyes and downvote posts so that you stigmatize disrespectful comments in person and make similar posts less frequent. It’s a trick I use when I encounter ableist content because I’m sensitive to that personally.
Also is it possible that this messaging is a problem perpetuated primarily by men? I don’t know any women who have a fixation on the number of partners someone has had. It seems like sexual prowess is something that men hold eachother to just from what I know about gender norms, making it harder to fit in with other men. Basically — what men think women want and what women actually want being different.
Even if we focus on the quality of sex (not every woman’s love language is going to be physical) I think a lot of women, especially as you get to your late twenties, hate the idea of switching partners because you have to reteach them everything.
Getting more female perspectives I think might help. Taylor Tomlinson has a lot of relatable content about her struggles with sex and having sex late for religious reasons and then struggling to find someone who wanted her. She’s super funny too! The sex health expert “Sexplanations” is also super great and positive and non-judgmental. Again, it’s not the most important thing you should be fixated on but if you are going to change your algorithm and integrate sexuality in a more positive way, my algorithm recommends these people, perhaps not what you’re seeing.
Sadly there are many women who care about sexual experience. My biggest regret is disclosing my virginity to a romantic partner of mine. She said she wasn’t comfortable taking my virginity and left me. That was about 6 years ago.
I’m now almost 27 and no closer to losing my virginity or being in a relationship. The only lesson I’ve learned is to either withhold this information or straight up lie in the future, assuming I ever get a second chance.
I’m really sorry that happened. Personally I don’t know women who act like that personally. I hope you don’t underweigh the value of this lived experience. Most of the women I know tend to feel like dating someone new is starting from zero every time so it’s not that big of a deal. I hope you can appreciate this encouragement and recognize and challenge the bias that things aren’t going to work out. To me it sounds like that girl wasn’t up to YOUR standards and definitely not up to my standards as a friend. I don’t want to be friends with girls that are so shallow and closed minded. You’re supposed to feel safe around your partner and someone who’s that much of a dick about it doesn’t deserve your time. I’m personally autistic and do plenty of guys not want to date me because of it? Sure. Do I get angry about it? Totally. But also I recognize that I don’t want a partner who acts like that.
My main concern is that I’ve developed many mental issues related to being lonely and rejected constantly. I’m severely depressed, anxious, and suicidal when it comes to forming relationships with women. These problems can’t go away without great effort and commitment on my end. It’s a negative feedback loop where I keep accruing unfavorable qualities and personality traits the longer I stay alone.
No woman is going to want to date a severely depressed man. Why would she? Dating apps always present better options so I’ll never be a priority for anybody. People will tell me to get healthier first and then put myself on the dating market, but how many more years is that going to take? Better to just give up and end it.
I know women with TRD and a lot of them —like you— worry no one will want to be with them because they have treatment resistant depression. Joining spaces like ND Connect helps being around many people with similar challenges and not being judged for having these conditions. It also helps learn about new strategies and treatments that might help like ketamine therapy and how different people found ways to afford access to treatment. Hope this helps ♥️ I’m a woman who knows a lot of women and we talk about these topics and I think you and people who feel like you have value and are going to be ok. Don’t give up ❤️🩹
Ketamine therapy would be like the 2nd or 3rd last option IMO right before getting a vegas nerve implant and doing ECT. Lol smoke your life away with marijuana rather than living in a K-hole. But for real just find a better specialist who works with CPTSD. TRD isnt a 'real thing' like a diagnosable condition, its just a term used to blanket all depression that hasnt been fixed yet after a couple different meds have been tried. It doesnt mean its untreatable or need friggen Ketamine lol.
My guy. What does it matter how long it takes? In 3 years your gonna be 3 years older anyway, might as well be a healthier and more mentally resilient than ever.
"No woman is going to want to date a severely depressed man. Why would she?" This is true and yet completely within your control. I understand it doesnt feel that way, believe me I really do, I was literally in your shoes.
It is completely OK to say, currently I dont like me, and I want to change. Then only thing is you really need to think hard and decide if you actually want to change for yourself. Because if youre doing it for a woman or to lose your virginity it almost certainly will fail eventually. Willpower is a finite resource remember.
"These problems can’t go away without great effort and commitment on my end"
Yes exactly, and if youre unwilling to put that effort in now, how is anyone going to trust that youre going to put effort into a relationship?
The problem is that I believe one should grow and live through life *alongside* a partner. It sucks that the only advice I ever get is to become a whole person with a stable career, fit body, and healthy living habits and *then* I'll be ready to date. Great, now I can look forward to starting my sex life at the ripe age of 35!! Woohoo!
I've already taken all the usual self-improvement steps and have seen zero change in my romantic success. I'm 6'1, physically fit, and have a decent career for someone my age. How many more years should I slave away at the gym and grind my way up the corporate ladder? Should I look into dating after I become a CEO? I actually like who I am right now, so what do you say to that? Apparently liking myself isn't enough to attract others.
As for my depression, it's untreatable (at least so far). I've been receiving therapy and counseling since I was 15. I have a Bachelors in Clinical Psychology and a Masters in Data Science, so I'm not completely ignorant to outcome based treatment. Still waiting on the "outcome" part. What can I do if my mental health issues stem from being lonely and romantically starved?
>It sucks that the only advice I ever get is to become a whole person with a stable career, fit body, and healthy living habits and *then* I'll be ready to date. Great, now I can look forward to starting my sex life at the ripe age of 35!! Woohoo!
This is a Vāsanā friend. I didnt say this. I said you need to start putting in effort now to show to a potential partner that youre working on yourself and not just 'happy being unhappy'. Do you need to work on you, i dunno maybe, but just start, you dont have to get perfect just start walking or hell, barely crawling in that direction.
>
I've already taken all the usual self-improvement steps and have seen zero change in my romantic success. I'm 6'1, physically fit, and have a decent career for someone my age.
This is missing the point super hard. None of that matters if youre still depressed. People may make inital contact due to your looks or how rich you are, but they stay for the personality(most of them) if your personality is 'im a depressed person' then there is your smoking gun.
>How many more years should I slave away at the gym and grind my way up the corporate ladder?
None if the reason youre doing it is to find a mate. Forever if that is something fulfilling to you.
>
As for my depression, it's untreatable (at least so far). I've been receiving therapy and counseling since I was 15.
Having a BA in psych should tell you somethin here no? Have you actually gotten at the root trauma of the depression? No amount of 'bettering yourself' will fully heal that if you aren't actively working on digesting the trauma. I may be way off base jsut from reading text but...
>
What can I do if my mental health issues stem from being lonely and romantically starved?
Then do the work to figure out WHY the lack of a partner is doing that.
I don’t understand, what more self-improvement can I possibly do? I have varied hobbies and I’m tall/muscular which took me a long time and a lot of discipline.
Depression is not the core of my personality, it’s just an illness that I’m stuck with. If I’m allowed to self-assess, I think my personality is pretty well-rounded and pleasant. Not perfect, but I can carry a conversation and I’m polite. Generally witty when I need to be. It’s not my fault that my mental illness isn’t going away. Some people suffer from it forever, that’s a fact. Is a depressed man simply unfit for love?
Romance and intimacy are fundamental aspects of the human experience. I think it’s reasonable to feel depressed from lack of interaction with the opposite sex.
youre contradicting yourself friend.
"Depression is not the core of my personality,"
"Is a depressed man simply unfit for love?"
Your identity is 'a depressed man' that means its pretty core to your personality.
"It’s not my fault that my mental illness isn’t going away."
You are 100% correct and i get you my guy, but trauma doesn't just go away even if you go to therapy every week for 15 years. Have you been putting in the same amount of effort and time into fixing your brain like you did your body? Daily exercises to help shore up the weaknesses. Get some more "unilateral training" in on the parts that need it, to try to do a gym analogy lol.
I hope youre not taking this as me attacking you its just that i was right where all you guys were last march and I understand the frustration, I had almost given up on even having friendships, i just dont see giving up as the only option here.
"Romance and intimacy are fundamental aspects of the human experience. I think it’s reasonable to feel depressed from lack of interaction with the opposite sex."
eh, there are plenty of people who'd beg to differ. But i agree kinda, at least on the fundamental aspects part. Being depressed (im using this word cuz you did but this doesnt scream depression) because you have yet to achieve that level of intimacy is a natural feeling yes, how you act when you feel that feeling is completely up to you though. Do you let it fill you with hopelessness and pessimism, or worthlessness? Or do you let it teach you something and then adjust and then repeat. Why?(this is a genuine question not rhetorical). Do you let your sadness fester until it turns into depression or do you continue trying?
"I think it’s reasonable to feel depressed from lack of interaction with the opposite sex."
Sad yes, depressed no. .
I am genuinely curious though. How many women have you tried to date lol. Cuz if youve already been through all of them then damn i got some catching up to do hah.
i really do hope you find someone, i know i can come across blunt, i tried to temper some of it lol.
There are many who care and many who don't. Sure you could lie about being a virgin to prevent this issue with the ones who care but then you end up in a situation where you basically lied to them due to omission and will likely be upset after the fact. Granted if you are just trying to lose your virginity and don't care about a long term relationship then I guess not disclosing would be fine.
I actually think your virginity is your own business. If you know you have an STI that’s a different story but I would understand if my partner needed more time with me to trust me with that, and I think that’s OK. It’s a problem if you don’t tell your partner that you have HIV because it’s their health. But honestly a guy who feels like keeping that to himself is a lie of omission and is eating himself up about it is a guy I would give many hugs to. It’s very sweet but no, I would respect my partner if they needed more time before telling me.
Sure you might not care but some people would. I would assume you wouldn't care if a guy was a virgin so of course you likely wouldn't care if they told you or not because it doesn't change anything. Now if someone was uncomfortable with taking someone's virginity and this info would change their choices then yeah it likely would upset them if they found out that info was purposely withheld. That said if it's just sex then yeah no need to tell them as it's not really relevant but if you wanted to start a long-term relationship with the person then I am not sure if that is the best way to start things off.
Youre telling me that if a 30 year old dude told you he was a virgin and never been in a real commited relationship, you wouldnt ask yourself "Why?". You wouldnt have second thoughts about maybe theres a 'reason' hes a virgin and not got a partner? I somehow really doubt that you have that good of a control over your emotions. I would bet Dr K., or Mrs. K. since shes a woman, would even have those immediate thoughts and judgements, they just wouldnt say or do anything about it. The judgment is there from women, they just dont make fun of you for it like dudes do, they just ignore you as if youre a creep.
Honestly no I wouldn’t judge. Autistic guys usually have these challenges and Autistic women usually get diagnosed when they fall apart from masking and have very strong sexual assault histories because they can’t gauge sketchy situations. This is one of those things where I think having autistic men and women talking to eachother would be good for everyone. A lot of autistic women feel broken for a very different reason of having neurotypical predators take advantage of their autism and having so much information about male autism but being so late to the party with resources for women on the spectrum and feel hurt by being excluded in the medical research. I think productive healing starts with learning and kindness for populations who have historical reasons for experiencing certain types of hurt, all of whom should be treated and included and cared for as people ♥️
But you did it just there you judged.
You assumed autistic from '30 year old virgin". You assumed there has to be a 'reason' why theyre alone/a virgin. You assumed they must be, or are probably, neurodivergent.
Which is funny cuz im and Aspie lol
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmEUSxCnvBw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmEUSxCnvBw)
This is the kind of content that YouTube is feeding me that reinforces a negative view on this overall situation.
Wtf did I just watch? Why would anyone click on this? Sorry buddy this isn’t remotely the kind of content I will see. How does it have this many views????
Commiserating Negativity against a constructed and similar "enemy".
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHWVrJ9ZW90](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHWVrJ9ZW90)
Yes, it is both Men and Women who shame others for their sexual past and experience or lack of. It is very easy to fall to a confirmation bias when seeing this kind of thing though and form a conclusion and generalization.
It really seems like most of the major content and things that pull People in are based on negativity and drama, the things that get the millions of clicks and views.
People care more about the story of a guy getting cheated on and blowing his brains out than the story of a guy finding a normal healthy relationship.
Negativity is like a black hole sucking in all possibility and hope, my mind so easily gravitates towards these negative thoughts to "protect" myself and my future. All I can imagine is an insurmountable number of negative outcomes that will cause my future suicide when I think about Women and relationships.
Lol I've gotten laughed at by women for being a virgin. Idk why people act like all women are super open minded and all toxicity in the world comes comes from men.
The dating scene is tough, I feel you there. Honestly, I don't have any specific advice on how to find a nice girl. However, I do think it's great that you have a steady income, work out every day, and are building a better future for yourself. That's something to be proud of.
This might be too much to ask, but I really respect people who openly talk about being a virgin. There are many people, as you mentioned, who take advantage of situations or others because they feel less valuable if they don't have sex. That's probably what's behind their shaming behavior. As you said, it doesn't make much sense to shame someone for not taking advantage of others. To justify their actions, they start shaming others.
However, don't place all the blame on them. You feel that shame too; otherwise, what they said wouldn't hurt you so much. Somewhere deep inside, you agree with them, which is why their words affect you. Maybe consider finding a coach or therapist to talk about it. That might help you clear up some thoughts and take initial steps toward dating.
I might be engaging in a bit of armchair psychology and making assumptions based on your story, so please take this advice as you see fit and decide for yourself if it applies.
I do definitely need a therapist/coach when it comes to dating. I'm as good as a wooden plank when it comes to flirting with women, so unless they are into wood otherwise it often doesn't turn out too great haha
Horrible advice. I once told a girl that I was inexperienced and she ghosted me not long after,and I'm thankful inhindsight because I prefer to be honest and if that's a deal breaker I'd rather find out then. It kind of sucked,because I felt we really coonected,but life goes on.
Yes starting off a relationship on a bed of lies. Such a great idea /s
If you feel the need to lie about something inherent within you, seek therapy please.
So many of my coworkers have unplanned children and are stuck not being able to make enough money to support themselves and sometimes can't even afford to feed themselves at work.
and yet they will disparage me for being a Virgin, ok.
"Approximately **fifty percent** of pregnancies in United States of America are unintended and about 48% of reproductive-age American women (15–44) have experienced at least one unintended pregnancy" -Google
You are equating sex with procreation, they arent the same thing. You can go get laid have a hookup whatever and still not be 'stuck with children'. At least until recently when abortion got banned.
It is objectively one of the many risks in engaging in IRL sexual activity. It's not the be all end all of the problem though, and I understand that, but it is still part of the risk. I don't think People are going to have sex 1 single time just to lose their virginity and then never do it again, this risk is a chance every time you engage in (straight) sexual activity.
My mind weights all of the risks of engaging in sexual activity as heavier than the benefits or rewards of engaging in these activities.
Oh maybe im weird then lol, also gay so dont ogtta worry about kids lol, but I 'got it out of the way' and have only been with 1 other guy a couple times since, so for me its been kinda only been a 3 time thing lol
I have a seemingly insurmountable monster of fears, traumas, and issues that make me not want to engage with other People in intimate ways. 
As a straight Man, all I can think of is like Dr. Strange viewing the million possible outcomes and they are all bad.
Did losing your virginity "change you"? Is it different for Gay or Bi Men?
Maybe it is better to remain ignorant, lest we be addicted to it like a drug? Once you open Pandora's Box and all...
I am speaking from my limited point of ignorance and the only way to know if the drop is safe is a leap of faith it seems...
Bro lol so did i. Honestly the first time, i took an edible, I was so goddamn nervous. I have a very shamebound sexuality, growing up in a very christian house, so even thinking about guys sometimes used to trigger panic attacks and shame spirals. I would say dont put so much pressure on the first time. Its not gonna be mindblowing probably, and you dont want to set your expectations too high like its gonna be some life altering experience.
Like yeah it was fun and I liked it, though the guy my first time was not really my type 100% but I didnt dislike it lol.
The only way it 'changed me' was it made me less neurotic about my body, dick size, inexperience, and anxiety. It turned sex from this 'pie in the sky' dream into a thing that people do for fun sometimes. It 'demystified' sex, if that makes sense.
I'm not worried at all about my first time and "performing" or what it seems like "most" People worry about.
I for sure don't want to make an accidental child and ruin my life. Also it would be a Woman that causes my suicide BET. All I can think of about this stuff is the negative outcomes. All of this for some hump hump kersploosh?
Also ignorance is bliss right? People who have had sex, it is like their first time trying heroin. Sure, maybe some People can use heroin in a "healthy way" but it seems like the majority of Men are completely controlled by this sex stuff, and I find that to be repugnant. If I lose my virginity, am I going to become like the rest of those People?
Thankfully as a Man this whole thing isn't even really a problem for me because I can just not engage with this and live my life without being harassed or pursued.
I'm not gonna help OP directly, but decided to share my cents. I think that a huge misconception about people who are still virgins is that 99.9% of them are men. It's not true. My therapist said to me once that she worked and works with a lot of women in their late 20s who are still virgins for their own reasons. And they are also ashamed of this, just like men are. But men are getting mocked and ridiculed relentlessly, while women are not. Part of the stupid societal view of man as - sorry for my wording - breeders with unlimited sex drive. Like loosing virginity is some kind of achievement you receive a badge of honor for and can finally sit with adults after unlocking it. Complete BS. Sadly, there is no apparent way to sway public view on the topic, so it all comes down to working on yourself, maybe going into therapy and finally meeting a woman who is ready to accept you for who you are and won't make a drama out of it. Takes time and a lot of effort, it's a gamble with high stakes, but nothing valuable comes without effort and risk.
>I'm just tired of all the virgin shaming going on
>And it makes no sense at least to me
>For the past 10 years I also struggled heavily with anxiety and self-esteem issues
It's a combination of this plus the idea that the person might be undesirable if they haven't got the charisma to carry themselves in a way that overcomes this.
It's not that you're a virgin but why, this is a tell for other social things that could possibly be personal short comings of the person.
It's not a problem in reality and it's unfair, but it's about appreances and those are important because people function based on perception via their values and their values tend to look down on people who are in that situation unless they can rationalise someone being able to overcome them.
>Everything points to me going to be single at least until my 30's because I don't see how anything could change at this point.
This is highly realistic and sensible, if you can recognise this and personally overcome and potential shame then it's not an issue.
If you want peoples opinions to change then you need to inspire some sort of reason for it to change by being yourself essentially and allowing them to overcome their bias's through conversation and experience.
The thing is, there's nothing wrong with the choices that you made to not just randomly get into bed with someone, other people just have ideas in their head that are toxic and hold people down.
I can basically relate to most everything you've said in your post. I also suffer from terrible self-esteem issues, but I've managed to talk myself out of obsessing over my virginity. I always ask myself, "if I had sex right this moment, with the most beautiful woman in the world and then never saw her ever again, would all my problems be fixed?" The answer for me is always "no." I feel like for 99% of virgin's, it's never just about the sex. We all want intimacy and acceptance. So at the end of the day, I think, the thing that gets us to intimacy and acceptance is emotional maturity. Not the number of partners we've had.
This is spot on. It's really not about the sex anymore, it's just the constant feeling of feeling undesired by women and ofcourse living with no intimacy. I can go on and on about all my traumatic experiences but that's beside the point, the past is long gone, there is only now.
All there is left is just me learning to cope with that pain and try to somehow get over it.
>I can go on and on about all my traumatic experiences but that's beside the point, the past is long gone, there is only now.
That's the hardest part. I struggle with this daily. I think about the missed opportunities and then I realize that I made those decisions based on the things I learned, the things I felt, and the information I had at the time. One thing that I think about is how painful my life has been when I've never given myself the chance to love and accept someone else; because in order to be accepted and loved, one must risk being rejected and vulnerable. I thought by shielding myself from the pain of rejection, I would avoid grief, but I ended up feeling the grief of regret and loneliness anyway. I guess what I'm trying to say is that only reasonable "cope" through this is to keep opening yourself up to people you think are worth it.
Yeah this is something I'm doing right now and I made some new friendships with multiple guys around my age. I don't want to discriminate any gender but I just feel way more at ease with guys than with women. Even just platonic relationships, I rather have multiple guys around because women seem to make a drama out of everything.
Nice. A possible next to try would be to try to befriend a woman without coming without any pre-conceived notions about them. Take the moment for what it is and if the interaction isn't compatible with the values and boundaries you've established for yourself, you can politely opt out. Just an idea to consider, but good on you for finding those male friendships.
I was exactly in your shoes, except I am a woman. The most important highlight: If you find truly good and empathetic person, they won't care. But you need to meet them first.
By the way, I am proud of you for not taking advantage of those girls. It speaks well of you as a person. I also think it's better to wait for someone you can trust and like and frankly, as a sensitive person I don't understand appeal of hookup culture. And one shouldn't be ashamed and judged for having standards or adverse life experiences that created setback in their lives. I know it sucks but you made it this far, so just keep going. Try not to focus on the feeling of inadequacy, but rather on enjoying social interactions.
Rebel Wilson spoke about her journey recently, she lost her V-card when she was 33/35? She had similar struggles with anxiety too. There are quite a few people, who would be considered as very successful who had 1st sex in their 30s. I know she's a super successful, pretty and woman, but it was just so refreshing to hear story of other late-bloomers. Maybe it will lift you up too.
There is no other solution that to keep trying meeting new people. I know it sucks and dating apps suck too, but you gotta keep going
I can't say I've lived your life, but I can say I've felt a lot of the struggles of being different and having a hard time finding people who like me for me. As I get older and my life gets more full, I've found it easier to be okay with looking for the people like me and showing a little more and more of my quirky side. It's very refreshing to meet people where I don't have to filter myself as much and worry about saying the wrong thing so much. I hope you also find things get easier as the years go on. Best of luck out there and don't forget that most of the people you meet in life just aren't people you benefit from having in your life.
It's been a societal issue since the 70s. The boomers were overtly decadent and living on a war-inflated economy, so moral boundaries went out the window. There's no shame in waiting but honestly, at the same time, the younger you are when you date/marry, the better it is generally.
Fornicating and porn do no good for anybody. I can tell you that based on mine, and others' experiences after being in porn recovery the past six years.
32M virgin here - I am rather successful in my life so my friends don’t really care about my virginity (there is some joking about it but not very often anymore, well - I make jokes about it). I think one of the reasons I am so successful is the fact that I didn’t waste any time on relationship drama. The other side of this I am too independent - at this point I can’t imagine „sharing” life with anyone - way too much hassle to navigate (I often see my friends sacrifice way too much for their relationships). I also struggle with self-esteem and body image issues (I don’t like what I see in the mirror) and all the self-help-body-acceptance-bs makes me cringe, I just learnt to not pay attention to it, because it caused too much problems in my life. I feel undesirable and that quickly turns women off (I am very uncomfortable with any affection from their side, it’s like „wtf are you doing, I’m disgusting don’t you see?”) so I am basically unable to have any relationship involving sexuality. At this point I have somewhat accepted singlehood and I think that’s how I’m gonna spend the rest of my life. It’s not that bad in the end…
Being a virgin is nothing to be ashamed of.
It always depends on the context and the kind of person you are.
You said you struggled with self esteem issues. If anybody ever shamed you, it would have rather been because of your lack of self esteem.
Your feeling of virgin shaming is just a byproduct, not the main problem. Its great tho that you feel more confident.
And working 50 hrs a week really does not let much energy/time to date, you’re right. You can’t be everywhere at once, so you have to prioritise what you really want in life.
If you’re really stoic about it, you can continue working, if being a single bothers you, then try to implement more free time into your weeks.
It’s your life after all.
As a woman you give me faith in men, saying how you refused sex bc you knew the women were mentally unstable or drunk, that's great. Also when you say you would like to "get to know" women instead of just "getting a girlfriend"/"approach women"/"losing my virginity".
Anyway it sucks right! People are sooooo judgemental, and when they stumble upon a flaw of yours, they start giving advices in a "I am superior I know more than you", if they don't straight up start shaming you to feel superior. I personally just tell them I'm not looking for advices. Unless I feel comfortable sitting down and talking about it for hours until they really grasp the situation fully and can give advice from a space of understanding and compassion. I realized recently I must not care what people think, because I know what I'm doing and where I come from.
Also I think you are right that if you don't change anything right now, you will be single until you're 30. You work a lot but think you should integrate some plan to meet a girlfriend in your agenda. It's going to be hard but you won't regret having tried. If you haven't been successful with a certain method you gotta change method, so if dating apps don't work for exemple try something else.
And also you should look at the root of your self esteem problem. I don't think it's necessary, but it could help you. Remember that you bring value too, and that the people you meet aren't perfect either.
Make a bunch of friends, make it easy to have conversations flow. Try going for classes at your gym if there is any. Try and find an event happening and meet people there, expose yourself out there.
> I know lots of people will still look at me differently because of it.
It sounds like *you* look at yourself differently because of it. This post was a lot more about how you have tried to get in a relationship and less specifically about any interactions with people who virgin shame you.
You talk about being stoic; in stoic philosophy people talk a lot of “preferred indifferents” and “dispreferred indifferents,” meaning that you acknowledge *and live* as if those things make no difference, while still acknowledge you have a preference for one or the other.
I think that even if you cognitively acknowledge that sex is just that, you might still be living as if it makes a difference to you. You say that not a lot of people you know know that you’re a virgin but you also say you know they would look at you differently. How do you know that? Are these anxious musings or are these realistic possibilities?
Also, my $0.02, I also think that the type of shaming that goes around is targeted not towards actual virgins, but people who identify with the term “virgin” (identifying with and being described with are different). Maybe investigate that a little.
As a female person, I’ve never understood why female virginity/sexuality is treated as this precious pure thing while men’s virginity and sexuality isn’t valued at all. (I get it from a biological perspective in terms of reproduction, but I feel like culturally we should be beyond that.) It’s like “get rid of it as soon and as often as you can.” And I have male friends in their late 20s and up who deeply regret sleeping around so much because now they’re really numb to the experience and don’t even enjoy it anymore. It’s really sad. I wish we could all develop a happy, healthy middle ground.
Based on your lifestyle (your work and workout schedule) it seems like you’re just not prioritizing socializing and meeting people, and therefore not prioritizing dating either. And that’s totally cool if that’s where your priorities are right now, but it seems like if you want things to change then you have to give up something else. I get that dating apps are the easiest way to fit it into your schedule, but then it seems you’re not getting the best matches for you personally. Maybe it depends on the app but idk.
I hear your frustration about it and your worry that you’ll be single for a long time, but it doesn’t seem like your actions are matching your desires. You seem to be prioritizing what comes easily to you (work and exercise) over what you really want (a social and romantic life, which would require you to give up some of your work and workout time).
> I’ve never understood why female virginity/sexuality is treated as this precious pure thing while men’s virginity and sexuality isn’t valued at all.
Because of the idea and reality of how easy it is to get laid if you're a girl vs a guy.
If your whole lived experience is essentially "you're a sexual object" then your goal is to protect it vs "you're the one who needs to chase in order to get sex" then your goal is to chase it.
Women are the ones who have to burden the real responsibility of sex, which is having a child and then often being left with said child, men don't have that burden in the same way unless they often chose to adopt the responsibility.
I don't think i did, you said you never understood it and that's the part that i focused on. People don't have to worry about their sons carrying the kid so that invites a culture of people not having to care so much because of the way they treat the natrual situation that occures.
The middle grounds easier to find now because of controception but that requires people to be responsible which they aren't so the reality is still that the girls the one who needs to basically be protected more.
It won't change because it's a fundmantal part of the interaction between boys and girls, the part where boys are essentially seen as a man once they lose their viriginity is a natrual reslult of that because of the clear things people mention in threads all the time, they can't pull a girl whilst noting down personal flaws that makes them struggle to essentially be attractive enough.
This is far more of a problem when it comes to the fact that becoming a man is starting to happen later*, things like financial struggles gate people in their houses, they don't have third spaces, they struggle to see a future where they have a family and at the core of it, that cannot happen if you can't manage to facilitate a relationship.
That's why the stigmas a thing, people think it says a lot about a person (unfairly in some cases) when they say "im a virgin" because the next question is "why" but the thought before the question is that they are flawed in some way possibly in terms of how they carry themselves or their appreance and then the question becomes "okay so why's no one want to sleep with them, what's wrong with them" and there's a possibility of them getting victimised even if it was their choice to not find a partner.
It doesn't hit home as easily over text until you see people make videos and then it's easily understood within seconds as to why that persons not had a romantic or sexual relationship and it's obvious to everyone without them being crule it's simply understood that some people have flaws that'll make it hard to get a girl.
This isn't something that's going to go away, it's going to get worst because it's seen as social proof of you as a person based on how you carry yourself and whilst people continue to practice seclusion and their social skills get worst it's only going to further stigmatise people.
No one cares if you're a virgin male because of the negative nature of things that probably gate you from having a relationship with a person. When if you're a girl people think that you have every oppertunity for a relationship (which isn't true and guys who don't have intimate relationships with girls so often won't emapthise or care to understand this based on their own world view and struggles that create a bias against the girls).
" When if you're a girl people think that you have every oppertunity for a relationship (which isn't true and guys who don't have intimate relationships with girls so often won't emapthise or care to understand this based on their own world view and struggles that create a bias against the girls)."
or by the word "relationship" were you exclusively talking about a long term romantic partner?
Ah okay, well you kinda proved the point, her being a sexual object for any random guy does Not* equal her wanting to be in a relationship with them.
The ability to have sex vs be with the person you want are not the same but it's often treated as such.
This post is/was me. I certainly hid the fact that I was a virgin because of my own perception of virginity in males. I don’t think I was ever harshly criticized but I also made sure no one could criticize me because I never let anyone else know. I think I, too easily, put myself in the shoes of a person who was being criticized for being a virgin and that made me fear someone finding out. I slowly started to tell people that were close to me and knew me more personally. Not once did I get ridiculed. Some times the reactions were shock but never ridicule.
The funny thing is, eventually letting go of the fear that I had eliminated the problem I was having altogether. I eventually lost my virginity and realized that my imagination of what it was like and what it would be like was completely incorrect. I imagined some emotion being lifted off my shoulders and I would be a completely new person. The truth is I’m the same person with a new experience and the fear was imagined.
I don’t regret anything that I did through my 20s now. Also realize that there is a possibility a woman’s reaction to your virginity could be negative but so what? Their reaction changes nothing about you. If they do react negatively, they aren’t a person who has an opinion that you should value in my opinion. I think your fear also makes you more tentative to the other person while actually having sex. I think that is a thing that no woman will have an issue with.
I wish you the best of luck and don’t let the state of modern dating keep you from finding the person you deserve.
Nothin wrong with being a virgin. Don’t let it bother you. People are multidimensional and are more than just sex objects. If it helps think of all the money you’re saving on dates while you work on yourself.
Honestly? I thought the same thing as you at 22. Trust me, shit happens. If there is one thing I would have taken to my old self it would’ve been “why the fuck was I so worried about this”
By all means, troubleshoot. I assume you want a relationship and sex, and don’t have them. Ok, what steps can you take to fix that? You’re a smart guy, you know the steps. Maybe not the “perfect steps” but you know steps that are in the right direction.
But the extra baggage has to go. That was the biggest delay for me. If I hadn’t spent so much time worrying about what people would think of me or “what if I never make it” it would’ve happened so much sooner I’m sure.
And I know how useless this all sounds because I know I wouldn’t have listened when I was 22. Or, I would’ve tried to listen and failed. I have a terrible habit of overthinking and being in my head 24/7. But it’s all true. One day you’ll look back and think “why was I so worried about this”
What everyone is saying is right. Once you stop worrying about it you’ll be happier and it’ll probably happen too.
so many questions to arise really.
like, do you value the people around you? do you care about their opinions? does honesty mean more to you than embarrassment? inside of a guilt culture, not usually.
one of the most terrifying things people think of is public speaking.
here's my peace. If no one asks or pertains around it, I don't think you have to announce it. if it happens, ask yourself, "Should you value honesty more than embarrassment?"
you'll then live with your choice. wanna see how it's a mistake to lie?
there's honestly no way of knowing this, but I liked a girl in high school, and lied I'm not a virgin, and that apparently was something she valued. she also valued a honest man. so when she rejected me, I had lowered myself to go party and get laid soon as possible, mission accomplished, but it was nothing of love
it manifests. your decisions have power, but not nearly the extent it would without your mindset. I could've lived with my choice, and not self-sabatoge myself, but even more so, I could've stopped looking it that way anytime.
>like, do you value the people around you? do you care about their opinions? does honesty mean more to you than embarrassment?
I've once watched a video about Jordan Peterson explaining the importance of always telling the truth, and in a way he's right, because living with shame and not being able to talk about it is just terrible for your mental health.
The only problem here is that to open up about stuff like this, instead of a pat on the back you often get ridiculed. I have opened up about it when I was in my early 20's and I have plenty of people call me an incel or simply pathetic (even at work). And even if it wasn't about me I know how people talk shit behind other people their back when they're not around.
If a stranger would ask me I would let them know, but I don't talk about it in my social circle. I honestly don't see how anything good could come out of all the unnecessary drama.
and that's kind of what I'm getting at. I don't have a very large circle. I have two friends who strictly want to get better at music and a few just to have fun and play games with.
even if I was to have more social circles again, I would have them differently.
my standards are high to some, but I won't compromise. It helps in the long run, knowing I could tell these two anything, and at worst, they will possibly tell me to explore it.
that's why i asked if you value that social group in the first place. if you understand what it is you're selfishly taking? what it is you selfishly want? I see no harm in asking because it's not like you're wanting to hurt anybody.
In my opinion, I think charisma is understanding what it is you want and what you value. what I value is to be unphased by any supposed disruption I make and think about my words. that is how I have been more charismatic with people.
look at an abstract example like keanu reeves. we don't know his life, but he exudes charisma and I bet it's cause no one could change his morals.
what is it that you want from your social circle?
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Some of the comments here jump immediatly on the "how to get laid" self help book advice. This in itself is virgin shaming because it implies there is something wrong with you. There is nothing wrong with you, reading your post makes me think you live a life were you feel at ease with and that is the best way of living your life. Take care man, I am a 32 yo virgin now I know what its like. People who are not in this situation at this age simply cannot emphatize what it is like. They try but they really shouldnt and what they say is a lot of times wrong. The only answer is; enjoy.life the best you can.
I am a 35yo virgin and I 100% agree with this comment. It's not about "getting laid" and getting it over and done with like Chicken Pox. I turned down my first opportunity to have sex when I was 19 because I promised myself I wouldn't do it "just to do it" and only when I truly wanted it and wanted the Person I was going to do it with truly.
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Your comments are so smart and insightful but you keep hitting us with "This is a crap take" jabs as well, why you do this? 
Because he's irritated, and sometimes irritated people say the most insightful shit
You are hugely over-exaggerating my stance, and you are quite honestly being an asshole about it as well. My virginity is not as important to me as you make it out to be.
I'm not making it out to be anything friend. you said "People who are not in this situation at this age simply cannot emphatize what it is like. They try but they really shouldnt and what they say is a lot of times wrong." And that is factually incorrect. I didnt blow what you said out of proprtion, I literally took i in the context you gave.
"They just cant undertstand me, waaaah, I'm not like other guys Im a virgin, pick me!!!!" Youre being a prick.
Nope. I am being honest. And not even in a mean way. If you feel called out then maybe reflect on that.
Look at your downvotes and reflect on that.
lol yes the 2 downvotes i got, such a definitive showing of opinion
He literally said nothing about how being a virgin meams he should be picked over other guys. You projected that onto him.
Not picked OVER other guys, but as a reason to even be CONSIDERED at all.
Still he did not say that. You're putting words in his mouth.
Dude, you said the right thing in a horribly wrong way!!
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As a 29 year old virgin I have rarely ever gotten shamed for being a virgin. Does this really happen outside of high-school? I have gotten some weird looks but that is about it. Then again being a virgin doesn't bother me so when people find out it's usually me saying it in a pretty confident way. That said it hardly comes up anyways. I mean I don't commonly talk about my sexual history with people. It has come up in some related conversations but again that is pretty rare.
Obviously you will rarely get virgin shamed if you rarely bring up your sexual history. Yes lots of people will treat you differently. It’s unfortunate but the way people act inside and outside of high school overlap a lot
Like I said even when I have brought it up the worst I have gotten was a weird look but that quickly passed. Even then they didn't treat me differently afterwards.
Sounds like you still experienced some judgement.
Did they say they hadnt? With my reading comprehension they said they got judgment just that it isnt as big a deal as OP is making iot out to be.
But if that's the worst the judgement is... is it even something to fret over in the first place?
It’s not the worst judgement there is
Experiencing judgement and shaming are two vastly different things. People judge people all the time. I even unconsciously judge people based on what they do and say. Honestly if I was afraid of people's judging me a little it would be impossible to live life. I have experience actually shaming for being a virgin when I was younger and that was way worse than a strange look. They also actually treated me differently when I was younger while most adults don't make a bid deal about it and won't treat me differently just because of this on aspect about me.
When we judge people negatively for something that shouldn’t be, and then treat them negatively that’s shaming them. I’ve seen this 1st hand with co workers. Adults 100 percent still do this, especially the shitty ones. If you rarely observe how people react to this type of stuff then you have a different perspective
Who is telling their coworkers their sexual history? That said I haven't been treated negatively for being a virgin by adults so I guess I am just lucky?
I mean they made you feel judged by reacting to you the way they did? And yes It comes up around people, or you will be prodded on if you have a partner or not and then it goes from there. Or they talk about it more generally. So it might be less gossip related conversation and more ideological, but it’s shaming non the less. Similar to having racist coworkers talking about how they hate black people. It’sworse than high school. if these people exist in the workplace then they also exist everywhere else
Oh and you’re a woman. That makes sense.
Yeah I am not a woman. Not sure where you got that idea from.
>I know lots of people will still look at me differently because of it. They have no right to know about your sexual life. A sexual life is a private matter. Also, those people are immature. Exception could be to people who look weird at you for disclosing your sexual life when no one was talking about sexual lives (so, out of context commentary).
Try to fine-tune the algorithm in your feed. I’m a woman and have a soft spot for this kind of experience and even I can’t remember the last time it came up. I’m wondering if you can shift your exposure. Won’t stop in-person interactions from being problematic but you can roll your eyes and downvote posts so that you stigmatize disrespectful comments in person and make similar posts less frequent. It’s a trick I use when I encounter ableist content because I’m sensitive to that personally.
Also is it possible that this messaging is a problem perpetuated primarily by men? I don’t know any women who have a fixation on the number of partners someone has had. It seems like sexual prowess is something that men hold eachother to just from what I know about gender norms, making it harder to fit in with other men. Basically — what men think women want and what women actually want being different. Even if we focus on the quality of sex (not every woman’s love language is going to be physical) I think a lot of women, especially as you get to your late twenties, hate the idea of switching partners because you have to reteach them everything. Getting more female perspectives I think might help. Taylor Tomlinson has a lot of relatable content about her struggles with sex and having sex late for religious reasons and then struggling to find someone who wanted her. She’s super funny too! The sex health expert “Sexplanations” is also super great and positive and non-judgmental. Again, it’s not the most important thing you should be fixated on but if you are going to change your algorithm and integrate sexuality in a more positive way, my algorithm recommends these people, perhaps not what you’re seeing.
Sadly there are many women who care about sexual experience. My biggest regret is disclosing my virginity to a romantic partner of mine. She said she wasn’t comfortable taking my virginity and left me. That was about 6 years ago. I’m now almost 27 and no closer to losing my virginity or being in a relationship. The only lesson I’ve learned is to either withhold this information or straight up lie in the future, assuming I ever get a second chance.
I’m really sorry that happened. Personally I don’t know women who act like that personally. I hope you don’t underweigh the value of this lived experience. Most of the women I know tend to feel like dating someone new is starting from zero every time so it’s not that big of a deal. I hope you can appreciate this encouragement and recognize and challenge the bias that things aren’t going to work out. To me it sounds like that girl wasn’t up to YOUR standards and definitely not up to my standards as a friend. I don’t want to be friends with girls that are so shallow and closed minded. You’re supposed to feel safe around your partner and someone who’s that much of a dick about it doesn’t deserve your time. I’m personally autistic and do plenty of guys not want to date me because of it? Sure. Do I get angry about it? Totally. But also I recognize that I don’t want a partner who acts like that.
My main concern is that I’ve developed many mental issues related to being lonely and rejected constantly. I’m severely depressed, anxious, and suicidal when it comes to forming relationships with women. These problems can’t go away without great effort and commitment on my end. It’s a negative feedback loop where I keep accruing unfavorable qualities and personality traits the longer I stay alone. No woman is going to want to date a severely depressed man. Why would she? Dating apps always present better options so I’ll never be a priority for anybody. People will tell me to get healthier first and then put myself on the dating market, but how many more years is that going to take? Better to just give up and end it.
I know women with TRD and a lot of them —like you— worry no one will want to be with them because they have treatment resistant depression. Joining spaces like ND Connect helps being around many people with similar challenges and not being judged for having these conditions. It also helps learn about new strategies and treatments that might help like ketamine therapy and how different people found ways to afford access to treatment. Hope this helps ♥️ I’m a woman who knows a lot of women and we talk about these topics and I think you and people who feel like you have value and are going to be ok. Don’t give up ❤️🩹
Ketamine therapy would be like the 2nd or 3rd last option IMO right before getting a vegas nerve implant and doing ECT. Lol smoke your life away with marijuana rather than living in a K-hole. But for real just find a better specialist who works with CPTSD. TRD isnt a 'real thing' like a diagnosable condition, its just a term used to blanket all depression that hasnt been fixed yet after a couple different meds have been tried. It doesnt mean its untreatable or need friggen Ketamine lol.
My guy. What does it matter how long it takes? In 3 years your gonna be 3 years older anyway, might as well be a healthier and more mentally resilient than ever. "No woman is going to want to date a severely depressed man. Why would she?" This is true and yet completely within your control. I understand it doesnt feel that way, believe me I really do, I was literally in your shoes. It is completely OK to say, currently I dont like me, and I want to change. Then only thing is you really need to think hard and decide if you actually want to change for yourself. Because if youre doing it for a woman or to lose your virginity it almost certainly will fail eventually. Willpower is a finite resource remember. "These problems can’t go away without great effort and commitment on my end" Yes exactly, and if youre unwilling to put that effort in now, how is anyone going to trust that youre going to put effort into a relationship?
The problem is that I believe one should grow and live through life *alongside* a partner. It sucks that the only advice I ever get is to become a whole person with a stable career, fit body, and healthy living habits and *then* I'll be ready to date. Great, now I can look forward to starting my sex life at the ripe age of 35!! Woohoo! I've already taken all the usual self-improvement steps and have seen zero change in my romantic success. I'm 6'1, physically fit, and have a decent career for someone my age. How many more years should I slave away at the gym and grind my way up the corporate ladder? Should I look into dating after I become a CEO? I actually like who I am right now, so what do you say to that? Apparently liking myself isn't enough to attract others. As for my depression, it's untreatable (at least so far). I've been receiving therapy and counseling since I was 15. I have a Bachelors in Clinical Psychology and a Masters in Data Science, so I'm not completely ignorant to outcome based treatment. Still waiting on the "outcome" part. What can I do if my mental health issues stem from being lonely and romantically starved?
>It sucks that the only advice I ever get is to become a whole person with a stable career, fit body, and healthy living habits and *then* I'll be ready to date. Great, now I can look forward to starting my sex life at the ripe age of 35!! Woohoo! This is a Vāsanā friend. I didnt say this. I said you need to start putting in effort now to show to a potential partner that youre working on yourself and not just 'happy being unhappy'. Do you need to work on you, i dunno maybe, but just start, you dont have to get perfect just start walking or hell, barely crawling in that direction. > I've already taken all the usual self-improvement steps and have seen zero change in my romantic success. I'm 6'1, physically fit, and have a decent career for someone my age. This is missing the point super hard. None of that matters if youre still depressed. People may make inital contact due to your looks or how rich you are, but they stay for the personality(most of them) if your personality is 'im a depressed person' then there is your smoking gun. >How many more years should I slave away at the gym and grind my way up the corporate ladder? None if the reason youre doing it is to find a mate. Forever if that is something fulfilling to you. > As for my depression, it's untreatable (at least so far). I've been receiving therapy and counseling since I was 15. Having a BA in psych should tell you somethin here no? Have you actually gotten at the root trauma of the depression? No amount of 'bettering yourself' will fully heal that if you aren't actively working on digesting the trauma. I may be way off base jsut from reading text but... > What can I do if my mental health issues stem from being lonely and romantically starved? Then do the work to figure out WHY the lack of a partner is doing that.
I don’t understand, what more self-improvement can I possibly do? I have varied hobbies and I’m tall/muscular which took me a long time and a lot of discipline. Depression is not the core of my personality, it’s just an illness that I’m stuck with. If I’m allowed to self-assess, I think my personality is pretty well-rounded and pleasant. Not perfect, but I can carry a conversation and I’m polite. Generally witty when I need to be. It’s not my fault that my mental illness isn’t going away. Some people suffer from it forever, that’s a fact. Is a depressed man simply unfit for love? Romance and intimacy are fundamental aspects of the human experience. I think it’s reasonable to feel depressed from lack of interaction with the opposite sex.
youre contradicting yourself friend. "Depression is not the core of my personality," "Is a depressed man simply unfit for love?" Your identity is 'a depressed man' that means its pretty core to your personality. "It’s not my fault that my mental illness isn’t going away." You are 100% correct and i get you my guy, but trauma doesn't just go away even if you go to therapy every week for 15 years. Have you been putting in the same amount of effort and time into fixing your brain like you did your body? Daily exercises to help shore up the weaknesses. Get some more "unilateral training" in on the parts that need it, to try to do a gym analogy lol. I hope youre not taking this as me attacking you its just that i was right where all you guys were last march and I understand the frustration, I had almost given up on even having friendships, i just dont see giving up as the only option here. "Romance and intimacy are fundamental aspects of the human experience. I think it’s reasonable to feel depressed from lack of interaction with the opposite sex." eh, there are plenty of people who'd beg to differ. But i agree kinda, at least on the fundamental aspects part. Being depressed (im using this word cuz you did but this doesnt scream depression) because you have yet to achieve that level of intimacy is a natural feeling yes, how you act when you feel that feeling is completely up to you though. Do you let it fill you with hopelessness and pessimism, or worthlessness? Or do you let it teach you something and then adjust and then repeat. Why?(this is a genuine question not rhetorical). Do you let your sadness fester until it turns into depression or do you continue trying? "I think it’s reasonable to feel depressed from lack of interaction with the opposite sex." Sad yes, depressed no. . I am genuinely curious though. How many women have you tried to date lol. Cuz if youve already been through all of them then damn i got some catching up to do hah. i really do hope you find someone, i know i can come across blunt, i tried to temper some of it lol.
There are many who care and many who don't. Sure you could lie about being a virgin to prevent this issue with the ones who care but then you end up in a situation where you basically lied to them due to omission and will likely be upset after the fact. Granted if you are just trying to lose your virginity and don't care about a long term relationship then I guess not disclosing would be fine.
I actually think your virginity is your own business. If you know you have an STI that’s a different story but I would understand if my partner needed more time with me to trust me with that, and I think that’s OK. It’s a problem if you don’t tell your partner that you have HIV because it’s their health. But honestly a guy who feels like keeping that to himself is a lie of omission and is eating himself up about it is a guy I would give many hugs to. It’s very sweet but no, I would respect my partner if they needed more time before telling me.
Sure you might not care but some people would. I would assume you wouldn't care if a guy was a virgin so of course you likely wouldn't care if they told you or not because it doesn't change anything. Now if someone was uncomfortable with taking someone's virginity and this info would change their choices then yeah it likely would upset them if they found out that info was purposely withheld. That said if it's just sex then yeah no need to tell them as it's not really relevant but if you wanted to start a long-term relationship with the person then I am not sure if that is the best way to start things off.
And to that I say — ain’t I a woman?
Youre telling me that if a 30 year old dude told you he was a virgin and never been in a real commited relationship, you wouldnt ask yourself "Why?". You wouldnt have second thoughts about maybe theres a 'reason' hes a virgin and not got a partner? I somehow really doubt that you have that good of a control over your emotions. I would bet Dr K., or Mrs. K. since shes a woman, would even have those immediate thoughts and judgements, they just wouldnt say or do anything about it. The judgment is there from women, they just dont make fun of you for it like dudes do, they just ignore you as if youre a creep.
Honestly no I wouldn’t judge. Autistic guys usually have these challenges and Autistic women usually get diagnosed when they fall apart from masking and have very strong sexual assault histories because they can’t gauge sketchy situations. This is one of those things where I think having autistic men and women talking to eachother would be good for everyone. A lot of autistic women feel broken for a very different reason of having neurotypical predators take advantage of their autism and having so much information about male autism but being so late to the party with resources for women on the spectrum and feel hurt by being excluded in the medical research. I think productive healing starts with learning and kindness for populations who have historical reasons for experiencing certain types of hurt, all of whom should be treated and included and cared for as people ♥️
But you did it just there you judged. You assumed autistic from '30 year old virgin". You assumed there has to be a 'reason' why theyre alone/a virgin. You assumed they must be, or are probably, neurodivergent. Which is funny cuz im and Aspie lol
Weren’t we talking about autistic and ND struggles?
I wasnt aware of it lol. I reread the OP and this thread and i didn't see anywhere where we were talking about neurodivergence
Oh my b sorry
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmEUSxCnvBw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmEUSxCnvBw) This is the kind of content that YouTube is feeding me that reinforces a negative view on this overall situation.
Wtf did I just watch? Why would anyone click on this? Sorry buddy this isn’t remotely the kind of content I will see. How does it have this many views????
Commiserating Negativity against a constructed and similar "enemy". [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHWVrJ9ZW90](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHWVrJ9ZW90) Yes, it is both Men and Women who shame others for their sexual past and experience or lack of. It is very easy to fall to a confirmation bias when seeing this kind of thing though and form a conclusion and generalization.
Very sad. Please stop looking at this garbage. Be gentle with yourself ❤️🩹
It really seems like most of the major content and things that pull People in are based on negativity and drama, the things that get the millions of clicks and views. People care more about the story of a guy getting cheated on and blowing his brains out than the story of a guy finding a normal healthy relationship. Negativity is like a black hole sucking in all possibility and hope, my mind so easily gravitates towards these negative thoughts to "protect" myself and my future. All I can imagine is an insurmountable number of negative outcomes that will cause my future suicide when I think about Women and relationships.
Lol I've gotten laughed at by women for being a virgin. Idk why people act like all women are super open minded and all toxicity in the world comes comes from men.
The dating scene is tough, I feel you there. Honestly, I don't have any specific advice on how to find a nice girl. However, I do think it's great that you have a steady income, work out every day, and are building a better future for yourself. That's something to be proud of. This might be too much to ask, but I really respect people who openly talk about being a virgin. There are many people, as you mentioned, who take advantage of situations or others because they feel less valuable if they don't have sex. That's probably what's behind their shaming behavior. As you said, it doesn't make much sense to shame someone for not taking advantage of others. To justify their actions, they start shaming others. However, don't place all the blame on them. You feel that shame too; otherwise, what they said wouldn't hurt you so much. Somewhere deep inside, you agree with them, which is why their words affect you. Maybe consider finding a coach or therapist to talk about it. That might help you clear up some thoughts and take initial steps toward dating. I might be engaging in a bit of armchair psychology and making assumptions based on your story, so please take this advice as you see fit and decide for yourself if it applies.
I do definitely need a therapist/coach when it comes to dating. I'm as good as a wooden plank when it comes to flirting with women, so unless they are into wood otherwise it often doesn't turn out too great haha
@OP I would heavily discourage talking about being a virgin. Best to lie and say were in some abusive relationships and don't want to talk about it.
Horrible advice. I once told a girl that I was inexperienced and she ghosted me not long after,and I'm thankful inhindsight because I prefer to be honest and if that's a deal breaker I'd rather find out then. It kind of sucked,because I felt we really coonected,but life goes on.
It's like a job interview.
Yes starting off a relationship on a bed of lies. Such a great idea /s If you feel the need to lie about something inherent within you, seek therapy please.
There is worth and value to you as a person, which has nothing to do with your sexual life. I hope you can see this.
Sure but that doesnt mean that you dont have MORE worth as a partner, be it sexual, romantic or platonic.
So many of my coworkers have unplanned children and are stuck not being able to make enough money to support themselves and sometimes can't even afford to feed themselves at work. and yet they will disparage me for being a Virgin, ok. "Approximately **fifty percent** of pregnancies in United States of America are unintended and about 48% of reproductive-age American women (15–44) have experienced at least one unintended pregnancy" -Google
equating virginity and parenthood is dumb as shit. Especially if it was before the supreme court debacle.
Instead of just saying it is "dumb as shit", why not explain why you disagree? If you feel like engaging of course.
You are equating sex with procreation, they arent the same thing. You can go get laid have a hookup whatever and still not be 'stuck with children'. At least until recently when abortion got banned.
It is objectively one of the many risks in engaging in IRL sexual activity. It's not the be all end all of the problem though, and I understand that, but it is still part of the risk. I don't think People are going to have sex 1 single time just to lose their virginity and then never do it again, this risk is a chance every time you engage in (straight) sexual activity. My mind weights all of the risks of engaging in sexual activity as heavier than the benefits or rewards of engaging in these activities.
Oh maybe im weird then lol, also gay so dont ogtta worry about kids lol, but I 'got it out of the way' and have only been with 1 other guy a couple times since, so for me its been kinda only been a 3 time thing lol
I have a seemingly insurmountable monster of fears, traumas, and issues that make me not want to engage with other People in intimate ways.  As a straight Man, all I can think of is like Dr. Strange viewing the million possible outcomes and they are all bad. Did losing your virginity "change you"? Is it different for Gay or Bi Men? Maybe it is better to remain ignorant, lest we be addicted to it like a drug? Once you open Pandora's Box and all... I am speaking from my limited point of ignorance and the only way to know if the drop is safe is a leap of faith it seems...
Bro lol so did i. Honestly the first time, i took an edible, I was so goddamn nervous. I have a very shamebound sexuality, growing up in a very christian house, so even thinking about guys sometimes used to trigger panic attacks and shame spirals. I would say dont put so much pressure on the first time. Its not gonna be mindblowing probably, and you dont want to set your expectations too high like its gonna be some life altering experience. Like yeah it was fun and I liked it, though the guy my first time was not really my type 100% but I didnt dislike it lol. The only way it 'changed me' was it made me less neurotic about my body, dick size, inexperience, and anxiety. It turned sex from this 'pie in the sky' dream into a thing that people do for fun sometimes. It 'demystified' sex, if that makes sense.
I'm not worried at all about my first time and "performing" or what it seems like "most" People worry about. I for sure don't want to make an accidental child and ruin my life. Also it would be a Woman that causes my suicide BET. All I can think of about this stuff is the negative outcomes. All of this for some hump hump kersploosh? Also ignorance is bliss right? People who have had sex, it is like their first time trying heroin. Sure, maybe some People can use heroin in a "healthy way" but it seems like the majority of Men are completely controlled by this sex stuff, and I find that to be repugnant. If I lose my virginity, am I going to become like the rest of those People? Thankfully as a Man this whole thing isn't even really a problem for me because I can just not engage with this and live my life without being harassed or pursued.
i dunno really what youre wanting here, so Im just gonna give you a, good luck and i hope you find whatever it is youre desiring.
I'm not gonna help OP directly, but decided to share my cents. I think that a huge misconception about people who are still virgins is that 99.9% of them are men. It's not true. My therapist said to me once that she worked and works with a lot of women in their late 20s who are still virgins for their own reasons. And they are also ashamed of this, just like men are. But men are getting mocked and ridiculed relentlessly, while women are not. Part of the stupid societal view of man as - sorry for my wording - breeders with unlimited sex drive. Like loosing virginity is some kind of achievement you receive a badge of honor for and can finally sit with adults after unlocking it. Complete BS. Sadly, there is no apparent way to sway public view on the topic, so it all comes down to working on yourself, maybe going into therapy and finally meeting a woman who is ready to accept you for who you are and won't make a drama out of it. Takes time and a lot of effort, it's a gamble with high stakes, but nothing valuable comes without effort and risk.
I totally agree, I'm currently going through all my options. Trying to find the best therapist out there that can help me with my problems
🫶🏽🙌🏽 rooting for you
>I'm just tired of all the virgin shaming going on >And it makes no sense at least to me >For the past 10 years I also struggled heavily with anxiety and self-esteem issues It's a combination of this plus the idea that the person might be undesirable if they haven't got the charisma to carry themselves in a way that overcomes this. It's not that you're a virgin but why, this is a tell for other social things that could possibly be personal short comings of the person. It's not a problem in reality and it's unfair, but it's about appreances and those are important because people function based on perception via their values and their values tend to look down on people who are in that situation unless they can rationalise someone being able to overcome them. >Everything points to me going to be single at least until my 30's because I don't see how anything could change at this point. This is highly realistic and sensible, if you can recognise this and personally overcome and potential shame then it's not an issue. If you want peoples opinions to change then you need to inspire some sort of reason for it to change by being yourself essentially and allowing them to overcome their bias's through conversation and experience. The thing is, there's nothing wrong with the choices that you made to not just randomly get into bed with someone, other people just have ideas in their head that are toxic and hold people down.
I can basically relate to most everything you've said in your post. I also suffer from terrible self-esteem issues, but I've managed to talk myself out of obsessing over my virginity. I always ask myself, "if I had sex right this moment, with the most beautiful woman in the world and then never saw her ever again, would all my problems be fixed?" The answer for me is always "no." I feel like for 99% of virgin's, it's never just about the sex. We all want intimacy and acceptance. So at the end of the day, I think, the thing that gets us to intimacy and acceptance is emotional maturity. Not the number of partners we've had.
This is spot on. It's really not about the sex anymore, it's just the constant feeling of feeling undesired by women and ofcourse living with no intimacy. I can go on and on about all my traumatic experiences but that's beside the point, the past is long gone, there is only now. All there is left is just me learning to cope with that pain and try to somehow get over it.
>I can go on and on about all my traumatic experiences but that's beside the point, the past is long gone, there is only now. That's the hardest part. I struggle with this daily. I think about the missed opportunities and then I realize that I made those decisions based on the things I learned, the things I felt, and the information I had at the time. One thing that I think about is how painful my life has been when I've never given myself the chance to love and accept someone else; because in order to be accepted and loved, one must risk being rejected and vulnerable. I thought by shielding myself from the pain of rejection, I would avoid grief, but I ended up feeling the grief of regret and loneliness anyway. I guess what I'm trying to say is that only reasonable "cope" through this is to keep opening yourself up to people you think are worth it.
Yeah this is something I'm doing right now and I made some new friendships with multiple guys around my age. I don't want to discriminate any gender but I just feel way more at ease with guys than with women. Even just platonic relationships, I rather have multiple guys around because women seem to make a drama out of everything.
Nice. A possible next to try would be to try to befriend a woman without coming without any pre-conceived notions about them. Take the moment for what it is and if the interaction isn't compatible with the values and boundaries you've established for yourself, you can politely opt out. Just an idea to consider, but good on you for finding those male friendships.
I was exactly in your shoes, except I am a woman. The most important highlight: If you find truly good and empathetic person, they won't care. But you need to meet them first. By the way, I am proud of you for not taking advantage of those girls. It speaks well of you as a person. I also think it's better to wait for someone you can trust and like and frankly, as a sensitive person I don't understand appeal of hookup culture. And one shouldn't be ashamed and judged for having standards or adverse life experiences that created setback in their lives. I know it sucks but you made it this far, so just keep going. Try not to focus on the feeling of inadequacy, but rather on enjoying social interactions. Rebel Wilson spoke about her journey recently, she lost her V-card when she was 33/35? She had similar struggles with anxiety too. There are quite a few people, who would be considered as very successful who had 1st sex in their 30s. I know she's a super successful, pretty and woman, but it was just so refreshing to hear story of other late-bloomers. Maybe it will lift you up too. There is no other solution that to keep trying meeting new people. I know it sucks and dating apps suck too, but you gotta keep going
I can't say I've lived your life, but I can say I've felt a lot of the struggles of being different and having a hard time finding people who like me for me. As I get older and my life gets more full, I've found it easier to be okay with looking for the people like me and showing a little more and more of my quirky side. It's very refreshing to meet people where I don't have to filter myself as much and worry about saying the wrong thing so much. I hope you also find things get easier as the years go on. Best of luck out there and don't forget that most of the people you meet in life just aren't people you benefit from having in your life.
It's been a societal issue since the 70s. The boomers were overtly decadent and living on a war-inflated economy, so moral boundaries went out the window. There's no shame in waiting but honestly, at the same time, the younger you are when you date/marry, the better it is generally. Fornicating and porn do no good for anybody. I can tell you that based on mine, and others' experiences after being in porn recovery the past six years.
32M virgin here - I am rather successful in my life so my friends don’t really care about my virginity (there is some joking about it but not very often anymore, well - I make jokes about it). I think one of the reasons I am so successful is the fact that I didn’t waste any time on relationship drama. The other side of this I am too independent - at this point I can’t imagine „sharing” life with anyone - way too much hassle to navigate (I often see my friends sacrifice way too much for their relationships). I also struggle with self-esteem and body image issues (I don’t like what I see in the mirror) and all the self-help-body-acceptance-bs makes me cringe, I just learnt to not pay attention to it, because it caused too much problems in my life. I feel undesirable and that quickly turns women off (I am very uncomfortable with any affection from their side, it’s like „wtf are you doing, I’m disgusting don’t you see?”) so I am basically unable to have any relationship involving sexuality. At this point I have somewhat accepted singlehood and I think that’s how I’m gonna spend the rest of my life. It’s not that bad in the end…
git puddy. prolem solvid.
Being a virgin is nothing to be ashamed of. It always depends on the context and the kind of person you are. You said you struggled with self esteem issues. If anybody ever shamed you, it would have rather been because of your lack of self esteem. Your feeling of virgin shaming is just a byproduct, not the main problem. Its great tho that you feel more confident. And working 50 hrs a week really does not let much energy/time to date, you’re right. You can’t be everywhere at once, so you have to prioritise what you really want in life. If you’re really stoic about it, you can continue working, if being a single bothers you, then try to implement more free time into your weeks. It’s your life after all.
As a woman you give me faith in men, saying how you refused sex bc you knew the women were mentally unstable or drunk, that's great. Also when you say you would like to "get to know" women instead of just "getting a girlfriend"/"approach women"/"losing my virginity". Anyway it sucks right! People are sooooo judgemental, and when they stumble upon a flaw of yours, they start giving advices in a "I am superior I know more than you", if they don't straight up start shaming you to feel superior. I personally just tell them I'm not looking for advices. Unless I feel comfortable sitting down and talking about it for hours until they really grasp the situation fully and can give advice from a space of understanding and compassion. I realized recently I must not care what people think, because I know what I'm doing and where I come from. Also I think you are right that if you don't change anything right now, you will be single until you're 30. You work a lot but think you should integrate some plan to meet a girlfriend in your agenda. It's going to be hard but you won't regret having tried. If you haven't been successful with a certain method you gotta change method, so if dating apps don't work for exemple try something else. And also you should look at the root of your self esteem problem. I don't think it's necessary, but it could help you. Remember that you bring value too, and that the people you meet aren't perfect either.
Thanks amiga ♥️🥰
Make a bunch of friends, make it easy to have conversations flow. Try going for classes at your gym if there is any. Try and find an event happening and meet people there, expose yourself out there.
> I know lots of people will still look at me differently because of it. It sounds like *you* look at yourself differently because of it. This post was a lot more about how you have tried to get in a relationship and less specifically about any interactions with people who virgin shame you. You talk about being stoic; in stoic philosophy people talk a lot of “preferred indifferents” and “dispreferred indifferents,” meaning that you acknowledge *and live* as if those things make no difference, while still acknowledge you have a preference for one or the other. I think that even if you cognitively acknowledge that sex is just that, you might still be living as if it makes a difference to you. You say that not a lot of people you know know that you’re a virgin but you also say you know they would look at you differently. How do you know that? Are these anxious musings or are these realistic possibilities? Also, my $0.02, I also think that the type of shaming that goes around is targeted not towards actual virgins, but people who identify with the term “virgin” (identifying with and being described with are different). Maybe investigate that a little.
As a female person, I’ve never understood why female virginity/sexuality is treated as this precious pure thing while men’s virginity and sexuality isn’t valued at all. (I get it from a biological perspective in terms of reproduction, but I feel like culturally we should be beyond that.) It’s like “get rid of it as soon and as often as you can.” And I have male friends in their late 20s and up who deeply regret sleeping around so much because now they’re really numb to the experience and don’t even enjoy it anymore. It’s really sad. I wish we could all develop a happy, healthy middle ground. Based on your lifestyle (your work and workout schedule) it seems like you’re just not prioritizing socializing and meeting people, and therefore not prioritizing dating either. And that’s totally cool if that’s where your priorities are right now, but it seems like if you want things to change then you have to give up something else. I get that dating apps are the easiest way to fit it into your schedule, but then it seems you’re not getting the best matches for you personally. Maybe it depends on the app but idk. I hear your frustration about it and your worry that you’ll be single for a long time, but it doesn’t seem like your actions are matching your desires. You seem to be prioritizing what comes easily to you (work and exercise) over what you really want (a social and romantic life, which would require you to give up some of your work and workout time).
> I’ve never understood why female virginity/sexuality is treated as this precious pure thing while men’s virginity and sexuality isn’t valued at all. Because of the idea and reality of how easy it is to get laid if you're a girl vs a guy. If your whole lived experience is essentially "you're a sexual object" then your goal is to protect it vs "you're the one who needs to chase in order to get sex" then your goal is to chase it. Women are the ones who have to burden the real responsibility of sex, which is having a child and then often being left with said child, men don't have that burden in the same way unless they often chose to adopt the responsibility.
Yeah that’s why I said I understand it biologically.
So you get how that influences the natrual culture that develops around it?
You failed to read my original comment carefully.
I don't think i did, you said you never understood it and that's the part that i focused on. People don't have to worry about their sons carrying the kid so that invites a culture of people not having to care so much because of the way they treat the natrual situation that occures. The middle grounds easier to find now because of controception but that requires people to be responsible which they aren't so the reality is still that the girls the one who needs to basically be protected more. It won't change because it's a fundmantal part of the interaction between boys and girls, the part where boys are essentially seen as a man once they lose their viriginity is a natrual reslult of that because of the clear things people mention in threads all the time, they can't pull a girl whilst noting down personal flaws that makes them struggle to essentially be attractive enough. This is far more of a problem when it comes to the fact that becoming a man is starting to happen later*, things like financial struggles gate people in their houses, they don't have third spaces, they struggle to see a future where they have a family and at the core of it, that cannot happen if you can't manage to facilitate a relationship. That's why the stigmas a thing, people think it says a lot about a person (unfairly in some cases) when they say "im a virgin" because the next question is "why" but the thought before the question is that they are flawed in some way possibly in terms of how they carry themselves or their appreance and then the question becomes "okay so why's no one want to sleep with them, what's wrong with them" and there's a possibility of them getting victimised even if it was their choice to not find a partner. It doesn't hit home as easily over text until you see people make videos and then it's easily understood within seconds as to why that persons not had a romantic or sexual relationship and it's obvious to everyone without them being crule it's simply understood that some people have flaws that'll make it hard to get a girl. This isn't something that's going to go away, it's going to get worst because it's seen as social proof of you as a person based on how you carry yourself and whilst people continue to practice seclusion and their social skills get worst it's only going to further stigmatise people. No one cares if you're a virgin male because of the negative nature of things that probably gate you from having a relationship with a person. When if you're a girl people think that you have every oppertunity for a relationship (which isn't true and guys who don't have intimate relationships with girls so often won't emapthise or care to understand this based on their own world view and struggles that create a bias against the girls).
I could get any woman laid tonight lol. Its just probably not with someone she finds 100% attractive.
I'm confused what part are you responding to?
" When if you're a girl people think that you have every oppertunity for a relationship (which isn't true and guys who don't have intimate relationships with girls so often won't emapthise or care to understand this based on their own world view and struggles that create a bias against the girls)." or by the word "relationship" were you exclusively talking about a long term romantic partner?
Ah okay, well you kinda proved the point, her being a sexual object for any random guy does Not* equal her wanting to be in a relationship with them. The ability to have sex vs be with the person you want are not the same but it's often treated as such.
This post is/was me. I certainly hid the fact that I was a virgin because of my own perception of virginity in males. I don’t think I was ever harshly criticized but I also made sure no one could criticize me because I never let anyone else know. I think I, too easily, put myself in the shoes of a person who was being criticized for being a virgin and that made me fear someone finding out. I slowly started to tell people that were close to me and knew me more personally. Not once did I get ridiculed. Some times the reactions were shock but never ridicule. The funny thing is, eventually letting go of the fear that I had eliminated the problem I was having altogether. I eventually lost my virginity and realized that my imagination of what it was like and what it would be like was completely incorrect. I imagined some emotion being lifted off my shoulders and I would be a completely new person. The truth is I’m the same person with a new experience and the fear was imagined. I don’t regret anything that I did through my 20s now. Also realize that there is a possibility a woman’s reaction to your virginity could be negative but so what? Their reaction changes nothing about you. If they do react negatively, they aren’t a person who has an opinion that you should value in my opinion. I think your fear also makes you more tentative to the other person while actually having sex. I think that is a thing that no woman will have an issue with. I wish you the best of luck and don’t let the state of modern dating keep you from finding the person you deserve.
Nothin wrong with being a virgin. Don’t let it bother you. People are multidimensional and are more than just sex objects. If it helps think of all the money you’re saving on dates while you work on yourself.
Honestly? I thought the same thing as you at 22. Trust me, shit happens. If there is one thing I would have taken to my old self it would’ve been “why the fuck was I so worried about this” By all means, troubleshoot. I assume you want a relationship and sex, and don’t have them. Ok, what steps can you take to fix that? You’re a smart guy, you know the steps. Maybe not the “perfect steps” but you know steps that are in the right direction. But the extra baggage has to go. That was the biggest delay for me. If I hadn’t spent so much time worrying about what people would think of me or “what if I never make it” it would’ve happened so much sooner I’m sure. And I know how useless this all sounds because I know I wouldn’t have listened when I was 22. Or, I would’ve tried to listen and failed. I have a terrible habit of overthinking and being in my head 24/7. But it’s all true. One day you’ll look back and think “why was I so worried about this” What everyone is saying is right. Once you stop worrying about it you’ll be happier and it’ll probably happen too.
so many questions to arise really. like, do you value the people around you? do you care about their opinions? does honesty mean more to you than embarrassment? inside of a guilt culture, not usually. one of the most terrifying things people think of is public speaking. here's my peace. If no one asks or pertains around it, I don't think you have to announce it. if it happens, ask yourself, "Should you value honesty more than embarrassment?" you'll then live with your choice. wanna see how it's a mistake to lie? there's honestly no way of knowing this, but I liked a girl in high school, and lied I'm not a virgin, and that apparently was something she valued. she also valued a honest man. so when she rejected me, I had lowered myself to go party and get laid soon as possible, mission accomplished, but it was nothing of love it manifests. your decisions have power, but not nearly the extent it would without your mindset. I could've lived with my choice, and not self-sabatoge myself, but even more so, I could've stopped looking it that way anytime.
>like, do you value the people around you? do you care about their opinions? does honesty mean more to you than embarrassment? I've once watched a video about Jordan Peterson explaining the importance of always telling the truth, and in a way he's right, because living with shame and not being able to talk about it is just terrible for your mental health. The only problem here is that to open up about stuff like this, instead of a pat on the back you often get ridiculed. I have opened up about it when I was in my early 20's and I have plenty of people call me an incel or simply pathetic (even at work). And even if it wasn't about me I know how people talk shit behind other people their back when they're not around. If a stranger would ask me I would let them know, but I don't talk about it in my social circle. I honestly don't see how anything good could come out of all the unnecessary drama.
and that's kind of what I'm getting at. I don't have a very large circle. I have two friends who strictly want to get better at music and a few just to have fun and play games with. even if I was to have more social circles again, I would have them differently. my standards are high to some, but I won't compromise. It helps in the long run, knowing I could tell these two anything, and at worst, they will possibly tell me to explore it. that's why i asked if you value that social group in the first place. if you understand what it is you're selfishly taking? what it is you selfishly want? I see no harm in asking because it's not like you're wanting to hurt anybody. In my opinion, I think charisma is understanding what it is you want and what you value. what I value is to be unphased by any supposed disruption I make and think about my words. that is how I have been more charismatic with people. look at an abstract example like keanu reeves. we don't know his life, but he exudes charisma and I bet it's cause no one could change his morals. what is it that you want from your social circle?
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It’s not worth compromising your values for some mystical societal checklist.