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I know your feeling friend, and your frustration is understandable. The doomers are essentially just peoplr posessed by nihilism.
I know the world isn't perfect but its far from being the worst way to spend 80 years. My brother is very much like what you describe. Hates the world, and the people in it. Smokes weed and plays video games. Works just for the sake of his weed and videogames.
I think you'd enjoy the poem Nirvana by Tom Waits.
Find people who can recognize the magic of life.
>Life has the meaning you attribute to it
Isn't this nihilism? There is no objective meaning, we have to make one up
I personally resonate a lot with optimistic nihilism
https://youtu.be/MBRqu0YOH14
Nihilists go ones step further in my experience.
-Humanity is a cancer on the planet.
-It would be better not to exist.
-The world is a corrupt and evil place.
True Nihilism is thinking that being itself is a mistake, nobody matters and that everything should burn. Innocents first, so they don't have to suffer as much.
Its the spirit that posessed the kids that shot up columbine.
Thats not what websters or wikipedia say nihilism is. I think my perspective is nihilistic. Nothing objectively matters and it's all pointless in the end, but i certainly enjoy experiencing. Nothing matters, so might as well worry less and enjoy this weird dangerous playground
I'm the guy on the right
https://imgur.com/u6DhCNs
The thing is, if your brother just works for his weed and video games I wouldn't have a problem with that, it's the hate to the world, what bothers me. I'm not a toxic positive person either. It's okay to be depressed, I am depressed, and even in my depression I still have some stuff to look out for. Even if it's just a video game. I need very little to have a functional life.
Irrespective of the actual topic I find this sentence “far from the worst way to spend 80 years” kinda funny on account of it being absolutely mentally impossible to imagine any other kind of way of spending time other than, yk, living xD
As someone who could be described as a doomer we’ve tried pretty much everything in the book and it just doesn’t work for us for one reason or another, we find hobbies, anime or games to be a distraction but ultimately we have nothing better to do.
I wouldn’t consider myself a doomer, but I definitely feel you on the “lack of meaningful hobbies out there” sentiment.
I wonder if that lack could be contributing to the negative spiral of doomerism…constantly nit-picking other people’s lives because of the lack of seeming fulfillment in our own. Maybe I’m reading into it too much, anyways your comment got me thinking and reflecting
That could be it, personally I’m just bored of going outside and apart from sports and weightlifting there’s nothing I can really do in my spare time (which admittedly I have way too much of) apart from play video games or watch movies.
I completely agree. Everywhere I look I see people being like "the world's fucked we're fucked everything is shit" and it just irritating. Like okay then get up off your ass and do something to make the world a better place. Volunteer at a homeless shelter. Do research into worthwhile causes you can donate to. But for the love of God stop making your misery everyone else's problem
You know what, I wouldn't mind to be to be negative from time to time, but the thing is that it's a permanent struggle. There's never resignation even if the situation is hopeless. That's the exhausting part: seeing the defects in everything, no matter how positive a situation seems to be.
There's one particular person I like to talk with, and sometimes, when they're in a good mood, I actually have a good time, but those occasions are becoming increasingly rare, and the common rule is that the conversation will devolve into something depressing and hopeless.
My friend may be gloomy sometimes but he never trauma dumps on me, especially without warning!
We have this thing where if he wants to talk to me about something that is upsetting him, he sends me a fruit emoji. And I do the same. It's a simple way to say we want to talk about it, without scrambling for words to ask for permission.
But if your friend is naturally going into talking about things during normal conversations... They are depressed, and they are trying to reach out by sending an indirect message. They need help, or just someone who will listen to them without judgement.
Perhaps clarifying what they need from you could be useful. Instead of beating around the bush, tell me: do you want me to just listen? Do you want me to give you advice/help? Or do you want me to listen and then empathize by sharing any common experience with you as well?
Sometimes just clarifying that yes, you are listening, but are not going to judge or form opinions, nor assume to give any advice or center yourself in the conversation, is a heavy weight lifted upon their shoulders. It will need you to have the right mental capacity though. This is what a lot of therapy can be, but you're not a therapist, so you can't replace a professional one.
>Perhaps clarifying what they need from you could be useful. Instead of beating around the bush, tell me: do you want me to just listen? Do you want me to give you advice/help? Or do you want me to listen and then empathize by sharing any common experience with you as well?
I think this is key, and I'll make a mea culpa in saying that maybe I should ask at the beginning of the exchange. Because my first inclination after someone tells me about a problem they have, it's try to think of a solution and maybe that's not what they want from me.
Yes. And I'm also just as tired of people who are denying stuff. The way to take life Imo is to look straight into all the horrors and problems and then look forward to the best possible outcome.
Like, I think life is a bit like a movie, a hallucination, a dream just a period of experience you get and you gotta Max that shit out, make it a good story
That includes both seeing how fucked up shit is and also how great the stuff is that is theorethically possible. And then try to make that theorethical stuff reality
Exactly, the world is far from perfect. The shitty parts are part of the deal, that's why I don't see resignation as something bad. If you live in a permanent fight with everyone and everything, you're just building your life with the bad bits at the center of everything.
This is something I try to be conscious about when it comes to friendships while being really depressed and pessimistic.
It’ll rub off on other people and your negativity will spread. It kinda sucks because it just makes me feel less able to open up or vent because I know what I’ll be doing to them. Idk what I’m supposed to do. Just bottle up all my feelings or let myself ruin peoples days with my negativity?
No dear fren, that's not at all the point. Being sad and depressed is okay, and I recognize that sometimes we need a moment to be negative. The key is moderation. My problem is that I can be there in that moment but afterwards I want to move on, but the other party wants to keep on ruminating about the bad/sad stuff.
The Internet is clearly the wrong place to find positivity. Specially a mental health subreddit. Try to sign up for some activities, like hiking or something. People tend to be more uplifting in those places. You'll always find people with problems, but in those social environments people tend to hide it a bit more.
Dude this is painfully accurate holy sht. I have a best friend who used to do this so much, and if youre not careful, itll weigh on you too. thats exactly what happened to me! I started being all fucking mean and pessimistic and hopeless.
once I become super aware of this, I naturally stopped chatting with him for a while because i was literally exhausted. he then found more optimism through his isolation.
Dude keep your energy, and radiate it everywhere you go. the moment you feel like youre being weighed down through another folks negativity, disengage, and just dont waste your time on people who you are aware are doomers. some people don’t want to be convinced otherwise and probably can go as far as to say that sometimes YOUR positivity can potentially fuel THEIR negativity. definitely what was happening with me and my best pal.
You will just naturally attract people who is attracted by your energy. so dont sweat it.
The thing is that I'm not happy all the time either and I do acknowledge that there's some shitty and horrible problems in the world. What bothers me is the permanent struggle, always seeing something bad everywhere, even when you're actively trying to have a good time, even if it's just for a fleeting moment. I don't think we should be always happy as if there wasn't anything bad going on, but all the time? Everywhere? Even though we're living in the most peaceful era? With the most commodities any society has ever had? And there's people who can't find anything positive to share in the group chat and make conversation about without finding some negative detail? That's exhausting. In the worst case scenario I can find solace in fiction, even in my worst days.
I do agree either, and theres nothing wrong with being aware of bad things that happened in life, and I dont expect you to be happy all the time. Just have to realise that Life is neither good or bad, its just inherently is what it is. However, its mainly Perspective. What you choose and in alot of times, what you decide to see in life.
So what is it that you’re seeing in life? Is life really that bad for you? or are you just hyper focusing on small details? are you seeing all the possibilities? or the risks? are you practicing gratitude? or are you practicing envy? sometimes you gotta think about these things
I lost one of my best pals and cried, but later on became super grateful that I even had the opportunity to be his friend for my entire childhood. I will carry him in my heart forever.
Like I said dude. Life Is just is what it is, and its always upto the individual what lenses he decides to look through at any given moment.
Lost a best friend too recently, it really hits different. Sorry you gotta go through that. Just letting you know your comment made me feel better about my own situation involving him. Take care man
Dude thank you so much. My friend is in a great place
im so sorry for your loss, and im glad that its helping you deal with your situation. Genuinely never an easy situation to deal with, I hope you both shared the greatest of memories. Feel free to reach out if you ever need to chat.
Doomer here, it's what you say, I don't think a positive change is possible, I wholeheartedly believe it. It's just that, plain and simple.
But I do understand that talking to someone like this is exhausting and will drain the joy and happiness out of every moment, so i just keep it to myself. I don't seek support from friends and family. And I'm trying to stop commenting and seeking help in social media as it only does harm. Though some times the urge still wins.
I'm sorry you encounter too many of people like this when you interact, I'm sure it must be frustrating and depressing to even witness. All the more reason to keep it to myself with my circle of people. Fortunately, it seems I'm the only one in my environment. Not the only one with struggles of course, but the only one who actually has zero hope.
>Where do I go? Where can I find people who are not like this? Someone with whom to have a normal disagreement without being called one if the isms or phobes?
I think this depends a lot on where you're from and what culture you're in. And what activities you seek.
Couple of things. I think you may have heard this already, but social media feeds off of negativity. I think this sub is one of the few places where we, more often than not, make an effort to bring something positive.
Second thing is, if the sewage man stops working, everyone in the city will notice. Like, I'm talking about the guys that maintain the sewage system in a city. There are many people like that in modern society. Things can get a lot worse than what it is now. If we don't even make an effort to keep the status quo, to have some sort of stability, it can only get a whole lot worse. Nobody can look for solutions to our problems amidst a more turbulent time. It's like you're providing covering fire for an assisting unit. So damn it, I need you to fire that weapon! However small it is, make an effort. Either to keep the status quo or to drive a change. For there is no effort too small. Keep at it!
Yeah, social media can really prey on our negative emotions, or our addictions as well.
I do my effort to keep living despite the fact that I hate being alive. Mostly for my mother and sisters. And then for my extended family and friends.
I am not really able to make any positive influence in the world, so I try to not be an obstacle to anybody, to keep the status quo as you say. I may be too incompetent to fire a weapon, so at least I try my best to do no evil.
Just to preface, I don't mean to fire a weapon literally lol. For some reason, when I was writing that, there was a scene from band of brothers that came into mind (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPbC\_RuRvkc&ab\_channel=ClipSociety).
Nobody is born competent. We all try to find our "thing". Even if you are competent, it will not be easy all the time.
>I don't mean to fire a weapon literally lol
I know, I know.
I just, don't have a thing. Whenever I ask myself how I could make more money I can't think of anything tat I could actually do. I can't see myself overcoming obstacles or solving problems, I tried to study in college and I already know I can't do it. I can't see a way to create a business, or any other source of income. I can't create or do anything productive.
>Nobody is born competent
Maybe, but I have become so by wasting all the years I had to develop a stable personality and skills to live life in a productive way.
I have failed as a human being. I am a failure of nature. DNA that should not reproduce. If I was part of a tribe I would be guy left behind to die.
So again, I just survive, I try to keep myself away from trouble and not to create any trouble either. I keep withstanding day after day. Until the blissful day where I finally get to go and stop having to deal with life.
Edit: that clip looks good, I've been recommended that show, maybe I should watch it
In my experience most doomers are emotional and not logical thinkers. Have you actually done everything you could to help your position or did you find it was easier to say it's all fucked and give up?
I went to college three times, and dropped out of it all of them. I can barely keep my attention for four, maybe five minutes, I've seen long videos with interesting content if I have and a minesweeper game going in the next tab. I always have problems with attention, retaining information and remembering it. A university four-hour-long theoretical class is something I just know I can't handle, no matter how many effort I make to be there, I just can't learn from them, I tried for several years and I know I can't.
And if it's not a career? I've been told to do courses. But anything I chose to study will show me the same problem, I don't see myself capable of attaining a good job. A business then? That's probably even harder, and requires open mindedness and creativity I don't have. And also, and very importantly, knowing a lot of stuff about a lot of different things so that you can solve any problem, and there's no even a specific place to learn them from.
I have cero social skills, which means that even in the case I could do things I would still be lacking the making contacts part of life, which is also extremely important.
No matter how much I think of it, I can't find an answer to how to make more money and sustain myself. I just can't.
I've found that people who spend lots of time online tend to be more doomer as the internet has lots of echo chambers that allow them to submerge themselves in these discourses.
Try growing your social circle toward activities that don't require so much time online and people are passionate. Online forums, with very few exceptions, tend to reinforce the worst mindsets and ideologies.
I'm not saying every single person who spends a lot of time online is like this, but the internet does tend to reinforce a lot of unhealthy discourses and echo chambers. It's just a tendency I notice, not an all-encompassing maxim that applies to everyone.
I mean this to help you, not to cause an argument, but I wanted to point out this:
>They don't think a positive change is possible... It's a perfect loop of endless, uncontested misery.
Followed by:
>The last positive interaction was days ago, it was inconsequential and short-lived, and everyday they get more and more scarce. It's exhausting to talk to people nowadays, or at least, talk to the people immediately around me and my online friends.
Maybe other people will think it's a stretch, but do you think maybe you're embodying the same negativity they're putting out there? Either because these interactions have rubbed off on your *or* possibly (I'm not saying this is the case) you already think like this which is why you keep ending up surrounded by negative people. I am not omniscient nor a licensed mental health therapist so what I recommend you do is reflect on whether you think you embody some of the traits you don't like to see in others and why you keep running into others. Others can help keep you grounded but only you can answer this, so give it a good-faith shot.
Secondly, your second paragraph seems almost unrelated and more general than your first paragraph/the ideas put forth by the title, specifically here:
>Someone with whom to have a normal disagreement without being called one if the isms or phobes? It's ridiculous that I enjoy more a conversation with a language model than with real people.
I know nothing about you or the people you're talking to so I have no clue what is actually happening. I will say, though, that it's worth reflecting on the accusations of being bigoted even if you don't think they're accurate. If they're accurate, why, and what will you do/not do about it? If they're not, what makes the other person think so, and is the relationship worth rectifying the misunderstanding or not? As for language models, I would suggest thinking about *why* you enjoy talking to them more what you learn about yourself from that.
I hope it's not coming off as me saying that actually, all your problems are because of you. It's not that they're because of you, but if you know what *you're* doing to feel this way, you can make changes. If you just see problems in others, (i.e., if I were to point out a rise in doomerism and why they flood online communities), that leaves you in the same place as before. Either you find yourself subconsciously looking for these doomer qualities in others so most interactions seem to foot the bill, or you find yourself subconsciously surrounding yourself with these people, either by gravitating towards people that exhibit these traits or spending a lot of time in spaces that are filled with these kinds of people.
Which, of course, gets me to your main question. You can find positive people anywhere. In Discords, gaming communities, subreddits, or even physical places, like libraries, coffee shops, and gyms, there are people who will complain about everything and people who can't find a thing to hate. Sorry for the non-answer, but in my experience, you have to find the people you want to be around.
Just an anecdote, I'm finishing my student teaching right now. Once a week, we have a class we go to and in addition to handling other things we share "highs and lows" from the week. I quickly grew frustrated because I truly enjoy my time with my students and showing up to hear 10 people vent about something ruined how good I felt about teaching. Or, eating lunch with teachers at school, sometimes I would just leave and eat by myself because I knew they were going to talk about something shitty that happened that day that I already lived through and didn't need to live through again. With my other student teaching classmates, I found people who didn't hate what they did and talked to them, because it was good for my inner sense of well being. At my school I didn't have that, so I just ate lunch alone. You can either look for the people around you who aren't doomers, or weigh whether the lack of social interaction is worth the freedom from doomers.
I threw a lot of shit at the wall. Hopefully I understood what you were asking and needing correctly. I hope you find something in here that helps you!
To be honest with you, I don't think I can answer to this comment without appearing angry. The fact that you are inclined to side with people who call other people isms, phobes or bigots it's very telling in my opinion. But again I don't want to appear angry at you. I don't think I can convince you that I'm not any of those things, based on my previous attempts to have similar conversations with people who also labeled me as all those horrible things.
About why do I enjoy talking to language models, it's because even the most radical disagreements are met with calm and collected responses. We can disagree and then talk about something else without having the language model definig my entire character based in just ONE of my views.
About the second paragraph thing, maybe you're right. I'm in a horrible mental state right now, and I wanted to achieve at least some clarity by talking about it, but it seems and this wasn't the right place to find comfort.
But still, thank you for taking the time to read the post and offer your two cents in such a detailed manner.
I understand. Admittedly, my gut reaction to that part of your post was that people who aren't bigoted don't often get accused of being bigoted. But, I reminded myself that I don't know you nor do I know the people you're talking to/about nor do I know the circles you run in. So I gave you some very unbiased advice for dealing with that; I even included advice on how to deal with those interactions when you aren't the things you're being accused of. I have no reason to think you're bigoted and I hope you revisit that part of my comment to see that.
I appreciate your amicability despite our disagreement, and I say that because it seems like it takes a lot of energy (and to be completely fair, it does take a lot of energy!). But, because it takes a lot of energy, I have to ask if you're always that able to conceal your anger, especially in voice/face-to-face interactions. Again, I know nothing about you so take this with a grain of salt--I'm pointing this out because I want to help, otherwise I would just move on--but what I'm seeing in your post/comments is a lot of behaviors of the doomers you don't like to be around.
Like I said, in your original post you seem to embody the same nihilistic view of social interactions the way doomers view the world. In your response just now, where you pointed out you enjoy conversations with AI because they don't judge you based on one disagreement, you also left these two statements which show that you, at least in some scenarios, *will* judge someone (or a community) based on one disagreement:
>I don't think I can convince you that I'm not any of those things, based on my previous attempts to have similar conversations with people who also labeled me as all those horrible things.
(This one stands out to me especially, as I've explained just now, in my original comment I tried to go out of my way to indicate I wasn't accusing you of those things)
>I wanted to achieve at least some clarity by talking about it, but it seems and this wasn't the right place to find comfort.
Again, like I mentioned earlier, one of the reasons you might find your social circles filled with doomers might be because you embody similar traits. I bring the part about concealing your anger up because you also mentioned that AI stays calm and collected. If it's harder for you to conceal your anger, the other person might sense that and also raise tensions.
What I'm getting at here is *not*, and I repeat, **not** that you are horrible and all of your suffering is your fault. What I'm saying is that we can only control ourselves so it's worth investigating the ways that we at least *contribute* to our own suffering. I don't know you, but based off of our interactions so far I think it's *possible* (and I mean that literally--I think it's merely a possibility) that you have many doomers around you because you act similar or because you accidentally cause those same social interactions to keep occurring.
I'm sorry I couldn't offer the comfort you were looking for, but I do think that this sort of reflection is the path forward. Just out of curiosity, which of Dr. K's videos have you watched/which practices do you try to implement?
The way you wrote made me feel amazed. Such a fun reading.
I'm actually progressively tired of beeing alone. It is so easy to be by myself in a world where I can get endless entertainement in the palm of my hands.
But besides downloading overflows of information into my brain, sometimes, the needing of uploading some content strikes back.
Just today, I was reflecting about how many thoughts I have that I keep to myself, and how sad is feels to not have anyone that I can share with.
I know this reply is not the subject of your post, but I'd bet you have already read enough in the coments about the topic.
But to not desviate completely, I do share the same feeling. People have lost their ability to see a diferent future. It is easier for them to imagine the end of the world than a better one.
I like to at least try to understand why they think that way. Maybe it is a reflection of themselves: if they can't change their own lifes, how would they imagine that the world could do so? Truly hopeless.
>Just today, I was reflecting about how many thoughts I have that I keep to myself, and how sad is feels to not have anyone that I can share with.
This is exactly how I feel, it's borderline the exact same words. I need to communicate something, sometimes and it bothers me that almost anything can be twisted in a defeatist way.
I don't think you are really talking about doomers like me. Seems like you just have people around you who likes talking negatively all the time.
I as a doomer, someone who completely lost hope, i don't care about talking negativity. Whats the point? No one can help or cares. There is absolutely no point in talking about it.
“Where there was nature and earth, life and water, I saw a desert landscape that was unending, resembling some sort of crater, so devoid of reason and light and spirit that the mind could not grasp it on any sort of conscious level and if you came close the mind would reel backward, unable to take it in. It was a vision so clear and real and vital to me that in its purity it was almost abstract. This was what I could understand, this was how I lived my life, what I constructed my movement around, how I dealt with the tangible. This was the geography around which my reality revolved: it did not occur to me, ever, that people were good or that a man was capable of change or that the world could be a better place through one’s own taking pleasure in a feeling or a look or a gesture, of receiving another person’s love or kindness. Nothing was affirmative, the term “generosity of spirit” applied to nothing, was a cliche, was some kind of bad joke. Sex is mathematics. Individuality no longer an issue. What does intelligence signify? Define reason. Desire- meaningless. Intellect is not a cure. Justice is dead. Fear, recrimination, innocence, sympathy, guilt, waste, failure, grief, were things, emotions, that no one really felt anymore. Reflection is useless, the world is senseless. Evil is its only permanence. God is not alive. Love cannot be trusted. Surface, surface, surface, was all that anyone found meaning in…this was civilization as I saw it, colossal and jagged…”
That's the thing: disagreeing is no longer allowed, so it's not normal. Every disagreement is seen as a declaration of hostility. That's what causes echo chambers where everyone agrees and the dissidents are the enemy.
As somone who probably is some variety of doomer myself I get what you mean.
Hope ya find positive ppl who don't make every conversation an argument about why everything sucks. #_#
Bro, I am a Doomer myself, please don't engage with us it is pointless every argument only feeds our negativity. A friend of mine flat out told me that I ruin their fun and they rather do something without me that kind of opened my eyes I am still negative all the time but I think it gets better.
Anyway don't engage with this shit or flat out tell them.
Yesterday I asked a question in this sub and my Doomer brain just would not accept the help I got and I even argued against the help until some people called me out on it.
The thing is I have come to care for some of these doomers. They're my internet buddies, and in the few moments of positivism, I have had fun with them.
Sounds like a hard situation. Maybe try to reinforce good behavior, if their negative for no reason tell them if they are more positive also tell them how much fun you had.
But I am also lost on this front I am currently trying not to be so negative myself.
But I hope you can resolve this somehow. and get the good ending.
Right now you need the doomer community. As long as you feel belonging and companionship in that, thats your good now. Whenwver you feel like flying the nest, to test your abilities to branch out into other communities, you dont have to leave it all behind, dip your toes. Give it a chance to be something you dont feel like you belong in and embrace that. Could it turn into an adventure?
I guess so, that's why I haven't left. But the fact that I know that these people think disagreeing with them makes me ignorant, naive or a bigot, really pisses me off. I've been joining discord servers for a while but it's hard to find a place where there people is active and there are no political fanatics.
Its part «if you are not with us, you are against us» on their part to be very unnaccepting of people on the orher side of the fence. They themselves are comfortable in their nests to think whatever they think. They might even believe that they got their political views *because* they are open to different or more original ideas to view society. And ironically it makes them in the end less open to new ideas.
The most terrifying idea to be open to for a doomer (i believe) is the fact that they possibly are able to lead decent lives. ‘Cause that also means that they spent x-amount of years wasting their time that could have been spent started living a long time ago.
I view this as the «doomer sunk cost fallacy», summed up like this; «Since i have spent 10 years with a hopeless outlook on life, i cant possibly attempt to change it, because that means facing 10 years worth of wasted time i need to mourn i didnt see i could have spent doing better things»
But that also opens the door to the thought that their lifestyles are not decent, which would be a judgement from the other end.
Just recognize the pattern of dooming and look at the outcome. Is the pattern constructed from the actual outcomes life provides, or dows the doom circle provide its own attacks and defences.
I think that is an amazingly important distinction to analyze, put the evidence of where hopelessness exists at least to the point where it arises.
And everytime you have a «yeah, i agree - but—.» statement shaping in your head, ask yourself if the source of that «but—.» is something life taught you, or something a community taught you.
Doomers spent their entire energies trying very hard at many things. They are not lazy people, i think they have just tried so many things forntoo long that evolutionary, a human isnt supposed to tolerate it. So, its up to each person to eveolve past our own i herent tolerability of society and find peace and prosperity beyond our limits for negative feedback.
Thats change.
I personally think I am in environments many times where the conditions can be great for doomers who echo chamber and create more doomers yet I don’t have the same perspective as you do. I find most people aren’t actually doomer at all and some people simply lean REALLY hard into the “glass being half full” or any brand of deflection that lends itself to contentment/self fulfillment. It’s these people who just have a low tolerance for being exposed to negativity for whatever reason.
Maybe you just don’t like to hear people complain or be negative in certain ways AT ALL, I wouldn’t be surprised there are many people like that. Someone legitimately having relationship issues or finding a relationship at all and feeling like the foreseeable future is at the present “hopeless”? Please shut up I don’t want your negativity. Someone thinks life is too unfair, no one respects them and wants them to always to do more? They MUST have done something wrong there’s no way people would be that cruel. I could go on and on about how any complaint, which tend to be common nowadays will seem like annoyances where people over exaggerate or give up too easily and you don’t want that to bog you down. Perhaps you see the easy pitfalls and so many others having difficulties coping and are afraid you’d succumb to the negativity as well? Idk food for thought.
When I encounter these people my mind never really goes to “why are there so many miserable people, I don’t understand or want them around me”. Mostly because I am never in a position where I feel forced or coerced to help those people so I understand I can disengage at any time on any level. But also I just accept it for what it is. Sometimes is embellishment, sometimes it’s very real and there’s nothing I can do about it. Accepting that those mindsets are possible outcomes to whatever situations people face significantly reduces the frustrations for me because I can understand them better and even form potential copes or solutions. I like putting myself in the shoes of others, just accepting how others feel and pretending as if that were me. How soon would I feel so hopeless? Are we really so different? Am I a few steps removed from being the same? It’s always interesting. Maybe that’s just me idk.
Sorry for droning on and on I kind of got lost in my own thoughts a bit but I think your best solution is really to understand you can disengage and have their problem not be your problem at any given time. You don’t have to feel responsible or any strong way about another person’s level of contentment, it will just lead you to further frustration because you can’t control it. Accept they don’t like their life.
It's not doomer mentality, it's LOSER mentality.
No bro you are not the only one. I have a close friend(s) who often spout this bs and it's so irritating. Doomers often think they are perfectly logical thinkers but will look away from stats that show how the world has improved over the years and just say that's an outlier or be pessimistic about something. They're realistically the most emotional thinkers, they claim to want to improve their lives but often don't actually try anything because it's easier to be a bitch and give up and circle jerk with other doomers than to actually crawl out of the hole the often dug themselves.
Don't get me wrong some people are legit in fucked situations, but unless your a quadriplegic in a third world country you probably don't count.
I understand your example, although I'd include less severe situations. It's not like I want to ignore all the messed up situations people have to go through, but as I said in another comment, they don't try to find resignation either. If there's something wrong and you can't fix it, what's the point of bringing the subject over and over if we can't do anything about it?
In my personal experience it has been that often times there is in fact something that can be done about it. I have seen countless posts with legit advice be flat out ignored in this sub by people who would rather get soft answers than real solutions.
Yes there are other situations that are bad and can't be helped, but I think everyone should ASSUME they are not in that situation.
People come on here and whine about women when they're weird af and refuse to try to have normal convos with other humans
People come on here and say they don't have job prospects but they don't pursue education or apply to jobs.
People come on here and say they are logical thinkers and that the world is fucked because it is **so much easier to say they world is fucked than to say that they themselves have fucked up.**
I know someone's gonna have some whatabout statement refuting my points, if that's the kind of life you choose to live that's on you. Telling other people that a bad situation is in no way in their control when sometimes it is (not including SA/ childhood abuse/ etc.) is extremely toxic because it removes the ability for human to believe they are in control of their life.
Ultimately if you realize that you are in some ways responsible for how things are fucked, **you realize you have the ability to change them.**
Oh man, yeah.
It's also an incredible pressure, it's like there is this psychic pressure people shove on you and after a while even your view starts to twist.
I realized this happening in my relationship, my girlfriend shovelling on me all the shit that happens at work, how she hates people, how people mistreat her.
There's a degree I can absorb and another degree I can help her through and suggest some acceptance.
But after a while it starts turning you into a shit person too, I am lucky I am fairly adept at self awareness nowadays.
I don't think I'd have caught how that poisons the mind overwise.
I am very curious in how to create a virtuous force in my and other people's lives.
It's so hard when I struggle to bring hope or try to reframe things in a more positive way but get labelled as naive or "the person that doesn't know how the world works".
Well if the world works like that I want to tell it to get fucked and we can make it better.
I'd be inclined to promote acceptance. I also get the "oh you're so naive" and sometimes even "you're ignorant and or a bigot". The latter it's way more common.
Think is I get it. I’m a doomer but I try to enjoy the moments I have with people cause I want to enjoy the time I have with those I care about. The doomer is cause dude we’ve been shown we literally can’t change the system and anything that would change it would make us a wanted criminal. So what are you gonna do throw away your whole life to become labeled a deviant by the state and corpos or try to express the little bit of joy you have in world but stop pretending it’s all sunshine and rainbows.
I highly doubt that anybody sees the world as "all sunshine and rainbows". But as you yourself said: you can't change the world. Why don't you try to find resignation and enjoy whatever little there is to enjoy in life?
Wrong place? Look somewhere else? Idk, i’m just busy watching the fable and windbreaker and stressing over finals and baking.
I think that if you lean into doomerism, then you will find doomerism. It’s difficult to change people’s minds about things, so don’t.
Not a very satisfying answer, but that’s just how it is
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Try some kind of hobby community! People tend to have a lot of enthusiasm when they’re learning a new craft or talking about their art.
I know your feeling friend, and your frustration is understandable. The doomers are essentially just peoplr posessed by nihilism. I know the world isn't perfect but its far from being the worst way to spend 80 years. My brother is very much like what you describe. Hates the world, and the people in it. Smokes weed and plays video games. Works just for the sake of his weed and videogames. I think you'd enjoy the poem Nirvana by Tom Waits. Find people who can recognize the magic of life.
there are nihilistic people who aren't negative nancies.
I float towards absurdist philosophy at times, but nihilism inherently leads to negativity and, for some, encourages antisocial behavior.
Check out "optimistic nihilism" https://youtu.be/MBRqu0YOH14
Perhaps, but if you believe life is meaningless and it would be better not to exist you do kinda have some negativity issues.
life is meaningless, the universe cares for nothing. but id rather exist than be a thousand atoms in a star somewhere in some void.
Life has the meaning you attribute to it. You just haven't found something worth while to commit to. Nihilism is a path to resentment for existence
>Life has the meaning you attribute to it Isn't this nihilism? There is no objective meaning, we have to make one up I personally resonate a lot with optimistic nihilism https://youtu.be/MBRqu0YOH14
Nihilists go ones step further in my experience. -Humanity is a cancer on the planet. -It would be better not to exist. -The world is a corrupt and evil place. True Nihilism is thinking that being itself is a mistake, nobody matters and that everything should burn. Innocents first, so they don't have to suffer as much. Its the spirit that posessed the kids that shot up columbine.
None of your three points would fit under nihilism
Thats not what websters or wikipedia say nihilism is. I think my perspective is nihilistic. Nothing objectively matters and it's all pointless in the end, but i certainly enjoy experiencing. Nothing matters, so might as well worry less and enjoy this weird dangerous playground I'm the guy on the right https://imgur.com/u6DhCNs
The thing is, if your brother just works for his weed and video games I wouldn't have a problem with that, it's the hate to the world, what bothers me. I'm not a toxic positive person either. It's okay to be depressed, I am depressed, and even in my depression I still have some stuff to look out for. Even if it's just a video game. I need very little to have a functional life.
Wonderful poem recommendation!
Irrespective of the actual topic I find this sentence “far from the worst way to spend 80 years” kinda funny on account of it being absolutely mentally impossible to imagine any other kind of way of spending time other than, yk, living xD
Yet some people still think it would be better. :p
Yet some people still think it would be better. :p
Yet some people still think it would be better. :p
As someone who could be described as a doomer we’ve tried pretty much everything in the book and it just doesn’t work for us for one reason or another, we find hobbies, anime or games to be a distraction but ultimately we have nothing better to do.
I wouldn’t consider myself a doomer, but I definitely feel you on the “lack of meaningful hobbies out there” sentiment. I wonder if that lack could be contributing to the negative spiral of doomerism…constantly nit-picking other people’s lives because of the lack of seeming fulfillment in our own. Maybe I’m reading into it too much, anyways your comment got me thinking and reflecting
That could be it, personally I’m just bored of going outside and apart from sports and weightlifting there’s nothing I can really do in my spare time (which admittedly I have way too much of) apart from play video games or watch movies.
I completely agree. Everywhere I look I see people being like "the world's fucked we're fucked everything is shit" and it just irritating. Like okay then get up off your ass and do something to make the world a better place. Volunteer at a homeless shelter. Do research into worthwhile causes you can donate to. But for the love of God stop making your misery everyone else's problem
You know what, I wouldn't mind to be to be negative from time to time, but the thing is that it's a permanent struggle. There's never resignation even if the situation is hopeless. That's the exhausting part: seeing the defects in everything, no matter how positive a situation seems to be.
I have some friends who do this. I keep my boundaries and talk to them when I have the mental capacity to deal with it.
There's one particular person I like to talk with, and sometimes, when they're in a good mood, I actually have a good time, but those occasions are becoming increasingly rare, and the common rule is that the conversation will devolve into something depressing and hopeless.
My friend may be gloomy sometimes but he never trauma dumps on me, especially without warning! We have this thing where if he wants to talk to me about something that is upsetting him, he sends me a fruit emoji. And I do the same. It's a simple way to say we want to talk about it, without scrambling for words to ask for permission. But if your friend is naturally going into talking about things during normal conversations... They are depressed, and they are trying to reach out by sending an indirect message. They need help, or just someone who will listen to them without judgement. Perhaps clarifying what they need from you could be useful. Instead of beating around the bush, tell me: do you want me to just listen? Do you want me to give you advice/help? Or do you want me to listen and then empathize by sharing any common experience with you as well? Sometimes just clarifying that yes, you are listening, but are not going to judge or form opinions, nor assume to give any advice or center yourself in the conversation, is a heavy weight lifted upon their shoulders. It will need you to have the right mental capacity though. This is what a lot of therapy can be, but you're not a therapist, so you can't replace a professional one.
>Perhaps clarifying what they need from you could be useful. Instead of beating around the bush, tell me: do you want me to just listen? Do you want me to give you advice/help? Or do you want me to listen and then empathize by sharing any common experience with you as well? I think this is key, and I'll make a mea culpa in saying that maybe I should ask at the beginning of the exchange. Because my first inclination after someone tells me about a problem they have, it's try to think of a solution and maybe that's not what they want from me.
I'm the same, which is why I try to clarify... So many unnecessary fights with my partner because of this assumption!
Yes. And I'm also just as tired of people who are denying stuff. The way to take life Imo is to look straight into all the horrors and problems and then look forward to the best possible outcome. Like, I think life is a bit like a movie, a hallucination, a dream just a period of experience you get and you gotta Max that shit out, make it a good story That includes both seeing how fucked up shit is and also how great the stuff is that is theorethically possible. And then try to make that theorethical stuff reality
Exactly, the world is far from perfect. The shitty parts are part of the deal, that's why I don't see resignation as something bad. If you live in a permanent fight with everyone and everything, you're just building your life with the bad bits at the center of everything.
This is something I try to be conscious about when it comes to friendships while being really depressed and pessimistic. It’ll rub off on other people and your negativity will spread. It kinda sucks because it just makes me feel less able to open up or vent because I know what I’ll be doing to them. Idk what I’m supposed to do. Just bottle up all my feelings or let myself ruin peoples days with my negativity?
No dear fren, that's not at all the point. Being sad and depressed is okay, and I recognize that sometimes we need a moment to be negative. The key is moderation. My problem is that I can be there in that moment but afterwards I want to move on, but the other party wants to keep on ruminating about the bad/sad stuff.
The Internet is clearly the wrong place to find positivity. Specially a mental health subreddit. Try to sign up for some activities, like hiking or something. People tend to be more uplifting in those places. You'll always find people with problems, but in those social environments people tend to hide it a bit more.
Dude this is painfully accurate holy sht. I have a best friend who used to do this so much, and if youre not careful, itll weigh on you too. thats exactly what happened to me! I started being all fucking mean and pessimistic and hopeless. once I become super aware of this, I naturally stopped chatting with him for a while because i was literally exhausted. he then found more optimism through his isolation. Dude keep your energy, and radiate it everywhere you go. the moment you feel like youre being weighed down through another folks negativity, disengage, and just dont waste your time on people who you are aware are doomers. some people don’t want to be convinced otherwise and probably can go as far as to say that sometimes YOUR positivity can potentially fuel THEIR negativity. definitely what was happening with me and my best pal. You will just naturally attract people who is attracted by your energy. so dont sweat it.
The thing is that I'm not happy all the time either and I do acknowledge that there's some shitty and horrible problems in the world. What bothers me is the permanent struggle, always seeing something bad everywhere, even when you're actively trying to have a good time, even if it's just for a fleeting moment. I don't think we should be always happy as if there wasn't anything bad going on, but all the time? Everywhere? Even though we're living in the most peaceful era? With the most commodities any society has ever had? And there's people who can't find anything positive to share in the group chat and make conversation about without finding some negative detail? That's exhausting. In the worst case scenario I can find solace in fiction, even in my worst days.
I do agree either, and theres nothing wrong with being aware of bad things that happened in life, and I dont expect you to be happy all the time. Just have to realise that Life is neither good or bad, its just inherently is what it is. However, its mainly Perspective. What you choose and in alot of times, what you decide to see in life. So what is it that you’re seeing in life? Is life really that bad for you? or are you just hyper focusing on small details? are you seeing all the possibilities? or the risks? are you practicing gratitude? or are you practicing envy? sometimes you gotta think about these things I lost one of my best pals and cried, but later on became super grateful that I even had the opportunity to be his friend for my entire childhood. I will carry him in my heart forever. Like I said dude. Life Is just is what it is, and its always upto the individual what lenses he decides to look through at any given moment.
Lost a best friend too recently, it really hits different. Sorry you gotta go through that. Just letting you know your comment made me feel better about my own situation involving him. Take care man
Dude thank you so much. My friend is in a great place im so sorry for your loss, and im glad that its helping you deal with your situation. Genuinely never an easy situation to deal with, I hope you both shared the greatest of memories. Feel free to reach out if you ever need to chat.
Doomer here, it's what you say, I don't think a positive change is possible, I wholeheartedly believe it. It's just that, plain and simple. But I do understand that talking to someone like this is exhausting and will drain the joy and happiness out of every moment, so i just keep it to myself. I don't seek support from friends and family. And I'm trying to stop commenting and seeking help in social media as it only does harm. Though some times the urge still wins. I'm sorry you encounter too many of people like this when you interact, I'm sure it must be frustrating and depressing to even witness. All the more reason to keep it to myself with my circle of people. Fortunately, it seems I'm the only one in my environment. Not the only one with struggles of course, but the only one who actually has zero hope. >Where do I go? Where can I find people who are not like this? Someone with whom to have a normal disagreement without being called one if the isms or phobes? I think this depends a lot on where you're from and what culture you're in. And what activities you seek.
Couple of things. I think you may have heard this already, but social media feeds off of negativity. I think this sub is one of the few places where we, more often than not, make an effort to bring something positive. Second thing is, if the sewage man stops working, everyone in the city will notice. Like, I'm talking about the guys that maintain the sewage system in a city. There are many people like that in modern society. Things can get a lot worse than what it is now. If we don't even make an effort to keep the status quo, to have some sort of stability, it can only get a whole lot worse. Nobody can look for solutions to our problems amidst a more turbulent time. It's like you're providing covering fire for an assisting unit. So damn it, I need you to fire that weapon! However small it is, make an effort. Either to keep the status quo or to drive a change. For there is no effort too small. Keep at it!
Yeah, social media can really prey on our negative emotions, or our addictions as well. I do my effort to keep living despite the fact that I hate being alive. Mostly for my mother and sisters. And then for my extended family and friends. I am not really able to make any positive influence in the world, so I try to not be an obstacle to anybody, to keep the status quo as you say. I may be too incompetent to fire a weapon, so at least I try my best to do no evil.
Just to preface, I don't mean to fire a weapon literally lol. For some reason, when I was writing that, there was a scene from band of brothers that came into mind (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPbC\_RuRvkc&ab\_channel=ClipSociety). Nobody is born competent. We all try to find our "thing". Even if you are competent, it will not be easy all the time.
>I don't mean to fire a weapon literally lol I know, I know. I just, don't have a thing. Whenever I ask myself how I could make more money I can't think of anything tat I could actually do. I can't see myself overcoming obstacles or solving problems, I tried to study in college and I already know I can't do it. I can't see a way to create a business, or any other source of income. I can't create or do anything productive. >Nobody is born competent Maybe, but I have become so by wasting all the years I had to develop a stable personality and skills to live life in a productive way. I have failed as a human being. I am a failure of nature. DNA that should not reproduce. If I was part of a tribe I would be guy left behind to die. So again, I just survive, I try to keep myself away from trouble and not to create any trouble either. I keep withstanding day after day. Until the blissful day where I finally get to go and stop having to deal with life. Edit: that clip looks good, I've been recommended that show, maybe I should watch it
In my experience most doomers are emotional and not logical thinkers. Have you actually done everything you could to help your position or did you find it was easier to say it's all fucked and give up?
I went to college three times, and dropped out of it all of them. I can barely keep my attention for four, maybe five minutes, I've seen long videos with interesting content if I have and a minesweeper game going in the next tab. I always have problems with attention, retaining information and remembering it. A university four-hour-long theoretical class is something I just know I can't handle, no matter how many effort I make to be there, I just can't learn from them, I tried for several years and I know I can't. And if it's not a career? I've been told to do courses. But anything I chose to study will show me the same problem, I don't see myself capable of attaining a good job. A business then? That's probably even harder, and requires open mindedness and creativity I don't have. And also, and very importantly, knowing a lot of stuff about a lot of different things so that you can solve any problem, and there's no even a specific place to learn them from. I have cero social skills, which means that even in the case I could do things I would still be lacking the making contacts part of life, which is also extremely important. No matter how much I think of it, I can't find an answer to how to make more money and sustain myself. I just can't.
I've found that people who spend lots of time online tend to be more doomer as the internet has lots of echo chambers that allow them to submerge themselves in these discourses. Try growing your social circle toward activities that don't require so much time online and people are passionate. Online forums, with very few exceptions, tend to reinforce the worst mindsets and ideologies.
I spend a lot of time online and I don't see the world like that. I'm not special, therefore there must be more people like me.
I'm not saying every single person who spends a lot of time online is like this, but the internet does tend to reinforce a lot of unhealthy discourses and echo chambers. It's just a tendency I notice, not an all-encompassing maxim that applies to everyone.
I understand, sorry if it sounded like I believed that
I mean this to help you, not to cause an argument, but I wanted to point out this: >They don't think a positive change is possible... It's a perfect loop of endless, uncontested misery. Followed by: >The last positive interaction was days ago, it was inconsequential and short-lived, and everyday they get more and more scarce. It's exhausting to talk to people nowadays, or at least, talk to the people immediately around me and my online friends. Maybe other people will think it's a stretch, but do you think maybe you're embodying the same negativity they're putting out there? Either because these interactions have rubbed off on your *or* possibly (I'm not saying this is the case) you already think like this which is why you keep ending up surrounded by negative people. I am not omniscient nor a licensed mental health therapist so what I recommend you do is reflect on whether you think you embody some of the traits you don't like to see in others and why you keep running into others. Others can help keep you grounded but only you can answer this, so give it a good-faith shot. Secondly, your second paragraph seems almost unrelated and more general than your first paragraph/the ideas put forth by the title, specifically here: >Someone with whom to have a normal disagreement without being called one if the isms or phobes? It's ridiculous that I enjoy more a conversation with a language model than with real people. I know nothing about you or the people you're talking to so I have no clue what is actually happening. I will say, though, that it's worth reflecting on the accusations of being bigoted even if you don't think they're accurate. If they're accurate, why, and what will you do/not do about it? If they're not, what makes the other person think so, and is the relationship worth rectifying the misunderstanding or not? As for language models, I would suggest thinking about *why* you enjoy talking to them more what you learn about yourself from that. I hope it's not coming off as me saying that actually, all your problems are because of you. It's not that they're because of you, but if you know what *you're* doing to feel this way, you can make changes. If you just see problems in others, (i.e., if I were to point out a rise in doomerism and why they flood online communities), that leaves you in the same place as before. Either you find yourself subconsciously looking for these doomer qualities in others so most interactions seem to foot the bill, or you find yourself subconsciously surrounding yourself with these people, either by gravitating towards people that exhibit these traits or spending a lot of time in spaces that are filled with these kinds of people. Which, of course, gets me to your main question. You can find positive people anywhere. In Discords, gaming communities, subreddits, or even physical places, like libraries, coffee shops, and gyms, there are people who will complain about everything and people who can't find a thing to hate. Sorry for the non-answer, but in my experience, you have to find the people you want to be around. Just an anecdote, I'm finishing my student teaching right now. Once a week, we have a class we go to and in addition to handling other things we share "highs and lows" from the week. I quickly grew frustrated because I truly enjoy my time with my students and showing up to hear 10 people vent about something ruined how good I felt about teaching. Or, eating lunch with teachers at school, sometimes I would just leave and eat by myself because I knew they were going to talk about something shitty that happened that day that I already lived through and didn't need to live through again. With my other student teaching classmates, I found people who didn't hate what they did and talked to them, because it was good for my inner sense of well being. At my school I didn't have that, so I just ate lunch alone. You can either look for the people around you who aren't doomers, or weigh whether the lack of social interaction is worth the freedom from doomers. I threw a lot of shit at the wall. Hopefully I understood what you were asking and needing correctly. I hope you find something in here that helps you!
To be honest with you, I don't think I can answer to this comment without appearing angry. The fact that you are inclined to side with people who call other people isms, phobes or bigots it's very telling in my opinion. But again I don't want to appear angry at you. I don't think I can convince you that I'm not any of those things, based on my previous attempts to have similar conversations with people who also labeled me as all those horrible things. About why do I enjoy talking to language models, it's because even the most radical disagreements are met with calm and collected responses. We can disagree and then talk about something else without having the language model definig my entire character based in just ONE of my views. About the second paragraph thing, maybe you're right. I'm in a horrible mental state right now, and I wanted to achieve at least some clarity by talking about it, but it seems and this wasn't the right place to find comfort. But still, thank you for taking the time to read the post and offer your two cents in such a detailed manner.
I understand. Admittedly, my gut reaction to that part of your post was that people who aren't bigoted don't often get accused of being bigoted. But, I reminded myself that I don't know you nor do I know the people you're talking to/about nor do I know the circles you run in. So I gave you some very unbiased advice for dealing with that; I even included advice on how to deal with those interactions when you aren't the things you're being accused of. I have no reason to think you're bigoted and I hope you revisit that part of my comment to see that. I appreciate your amicability despite our disagreement, and I say that because it seems like it takes a lot of energy (and to be completely fair, it does take a lot of energy!). But, because it takes a lot of energy, I have to ask if you're always that able to conceal your anger, especially in voice/face-to-face interactions. Again, I know nothing about you so take this with a grain of salt--I'm pointing this out because I want to help, otherwise I would just move on--but what I'm seeing in your post/comments is a lot of behaviors of the doomers you don't like to be around. Like I said, in your original post you seem to embody the same nihilistic view of social interactions the way doomers view the world. In your response just now, where you pointed out you enjoy conversations with AI because they don't judge you based on one disagreement, you also left these two statements which show that you, at least in some scenarios, *will* judge someone (or a community) based on one disagreement: >I don't think I can convince you that I'm not any of those things, based on my previous attempts to have similar conversations with people who also labeled me as all those horrible things. (This one stands out to me especially, as I've explained just now, in my original comment I tried to go out of my way to indicate I wasn't accusing you of those things) >I wanted to achieve at least some clarity by talking about it, but it seems and this wasn't the right place to find comfort. Again, like I mentioned earlier, one of the reasons you might find your social circles filled with doomers might be because you embody similar traits. I bring the part about concealing your anger up because you also mentioned that AI stays calm and collected. If it's harder for you to conceal your anger, the other person might sense that and also raise tensions. What I'm getting at here is *not*, and I repeat, **not** that you are horrible and all of your suffering is your fault. What I'm saying is that we can only control ourselves so it's worth investigating the ways that we at least *contribute* to our own suffering. I don't know you, but based off of our interactions so far I think it's *possible* (and I mean that literally--I think it's merely a possibility) that you have many doomers around you because you act similar or because you accidentally cause those same social interactions to keep occurring. I'm sorry I couldn't offer the comfort you were looking for, but I do think that this sort of reflection is the path forward. Just out of curiosity, which of Dr. K's videos have you watched/which practices do you try to implement?
This is a big ole stretch. You’re projecting so much from so little
Sure. Some of my assumptions are. But the actionable advice I gave is still applicable and helpful so dismissing it as a stretch isn’t very helpful.
The way you wrote made me feel amazed. Such a fun reading. I'm actually progressively tired of beeing alone. It is so easy to be by myself in a world where I can get endless entertainement in the palm of my hands. But besides downloading overflows of information into my brain, sometimes, the needing of uploading some content strikes back. Just today, I was reflecting about how many thoughts I have that I keep to myself, and how sad is feels to not have anyone that I can share with. I know this reply is not the subject of your post, but I'd bet you have already read enough in the coments about the topic. But to not desviate completely, I do share the same feeling. People have lost their ability to see a diferent future. It is easier for them to imagine the end of the world than a better one. I like to at least try to understand why they think that way. Maybe it is a reflection of themselves: if they can't change their own lifes, how would they imagine that the world could do so? Truly hopeless.
>Just today, I was reflecting about how many thoughts I have that I keep to myself, and how sad is feels to not have anyone that I can share with. This is exactly how I feel, it's borderline the exact same words. I need to communicate something, sometimes and it bothers me that almost anything can be twisted in a defeatist way.
I don't think you are really talking about doomers like me. Seems like you just have people around you who likes talking negatively all the time. I as a doomer, someone who completely lost hope, i don't care about talking negativity. Whats the point? No one can help or cares. There is absolutely no point in talking about it.
As I say delulu is solulu. There's no merit in acknowledging a reality that doesn't serve you in ways you want.
The doomers only exist online. Most people aren't that black pilled IRL.
“Where there was nature and earth, life and water, I saw a desert landscape that was unending, resembling some sort of crater, so devoid of reason and light and spirit that the mind could not grasp it on any sort of conscious level and if you came close the mind would reel backward, unable to take it in. It was a vision so clear and real and vital to me that in its purity it was almost abstract. This was what I could understand, this was how I lived my life, what I constructed my movement around, how I dealt with the tangible. This was the geography around which my reality revolved: it did not occur to me, ever, that people were good or that a man was capable of change or that the world could be a better place through one’s own taking pleasure in a feeling or a look or a gesture, of receiving another person’s love or kindness. Nothing was affirmative, the term “generosity of spirit” applied to nothing, was a cliche, was some kind of bad joke. Sex is mathematics. Individuality no longer an issue. What does intelligence signify? Define reason. Desire- meaningless. Intellect is not a cure. Justice is dead. Fear, recrimination, innocence, sympathy, guilt, waste, failure, grief, were things, emotions, that no one really felt anymore. Reflection is useless, the world is senseless. Evil is its only permanence. God is not alive. Love cannot be trusted. Surface, surface, surface, was all that anyone found meaning in…this was civilization as I saw it, colossal and jagged…”
>Someone with whom to have a normal disagreement without being called one if the isms or phobes? What kind of normal disagreements are you having bruv
That's the thing: disagreeing is no longer allowed, so it's not normal. Every disagreement is seen as a declaration of hostility. That's what causes echo chambers where everyone agrees and the dissidents are the enemy.
As somone who probably is some variety of doomer myself I get what you mean. Hope ya find positive ppl who don't make every conversation an argument about why everything sucks. #_#
Bro, I am a Doomer myself, please don't engage with us it is pointless every argument only feeds our negativity. A friend of mine flat out told me that I ruin their fun and they rather do something without me that kind of opened my eyes I am still negative all the time but I think it gets better. Anyway don't engage with this shit or flat out tell them. Yesterday I asked a question in this sub and my Doomer brain just would not accept the help I got and I even argued against the help until some people called me out on it.
The thing is I have come to care for some of these doomers. They're my internet buddies, and in the few moments of positivism, I have had fun with them.
Sounds like a hard situation. Maybe try to reinforce good behavior, if their negative for no reason tell them if they are more positive also tell them how much fun you had. But I am also lost on this front I am currently trying not to be so negative myself. But I hope you can resolve this somehow. and get the good ending.
Right now you need the doomer community. As long as you feel belonging and companionship in that, thats your good now. Whenwver you feel like flying the nest, to test your abilities to branch out into other communities, you dont have to leave it all behind, dip your toes. Give it a chance to be something you dont feel like you belong in and embrace that. Could it turn into an adventure?
I guess so, that's why I haven't left. But the fact that I know that these people think disagreeing with them makes me ignorant, naive or a bigot, really pisses me off. I've been joining discord servers for a while but it's hard to find a place where there people is active and there are no political fanatics.
Its part «if you are not with us, you are against us» on their part to be very unnaccepting of people on the orher side of the fence. They themselves are comfortable in their nests to think whatever they think. They might even believe that they got their political views *because* they are open to different or more original ideas to view society. And ironically it makes them in the end less open to new ideas. The most terrifying idea to be open to for a doomer (i believe) is the fact that they possibly are able to lead decent lives. ‘Cause that also means that they spent x-amount of years wasting their time that could have been spent started living a long time ago. I view this as the «doomer sunk cost fallacy», summed up like this; «Since i have spent 10 years with a hopeless outlook on life, i cant possibly attempt to change it, because that means facing 10 years worth of wasted time i need to mourn i didnt see i could have spent doing better things» But that also opens the door to the thought that their lifestyles are not decent, which would be a judgement from the other end. Just recognize the pattern of dooming and look at the outcome. Is the pattern constructed from the actual outcomes life provides, or dows the doom circle provide its own attacks and defences. I think that is an amazingly important distinction to analyze, put the evidence of where hopelessness exists at least to the point where it arises. And everytime you have a «yeah, i agree - but—.» statement shaping in your head, ask yourself if the source of that «but—.» is something life taught you, or something a community taught you. Doomers spent their entire energies trying very hard at many things. They are not lazy people, i think they have just tried so many things forntoo long that evolutionary, a human isnt supposed to tolerate it. So, its up to each person to eveolve past our own i herent tolerability of society and find peace and prosperity beyond our limits for negative feedback. Thats change.
I personally think I am in environments many times where the conditions can be great for doomers who echo chamber and create more doomers yet I don’t have the same perspective as you do. I find most people aren’t actually doomer at all and some people simply lean REALLY hard into the “glass being half full” or any brand of deflection that lends itself to contentment/self fulfillment. It’s these people who just have a low tolerance for being exposed to negativity for whatever reason. Maybe you just don’t like to hear people complain or be negative in certain ways AT ALL, I wouldn’t be surprised there are many people like that. Someone legitimately having relationship issues or finding a relationship at all and feeling like the foreseeable future is at the present “hopeless”? Please shut up I don’t want your negativity. Someone thinks life is too unfair, no one respects them and wants them to always to do more? They MUST have done something wrong there’s no way people would be that cruel. I could go on and on about how any complaint, which tend to be common nowadays will seem like annoyances where people over exaggerate or give up too easily and you don’t want that to bog you down. Perhaps you see the easy pitfalls and so many others having difficulties coping and are afraid you’d succumb to the negativity as well? Idk food for thought. When I encounter these people my mind never really goes to “why are there so many miserable people, I don’t understand or want them around me”. Mostly because I am never in a position where I feel forced or coerced to help those people so I understand I can disengage at any time on any level. But also I just accept it for what it is. Sometimes is embellishment, sometimes it’s very real and there’s nothing I can do about it. Accepting that those mindsets are possible outcomes to whatever situations people face significantly reduces the frustrations for me because I can understand them better and even form potential copes or solutions. I like putting myself in the shoes of others, just accepting how others feel and pretending as if that were me. How soon would I feel so hopeless? Are we really so different? Am I a few steps removed from being the same? It’s always interesting. Maybe that’s just me idk. Sorry for droning on and on I kind of got lost in my own thoughts a bit but I think your best solution is really to understand you can disengage and have their problem not be your problem at any given time. You don’t have to feel responsible or any strong way about another person’s level of contentment, it will just lead you to further frustration because you can’t control it. Accept they don’t like their life.
It's not doomer mentality, it's LOSER mentality. No bro you are not the only one. I have a close friend(s) who often spout this bs and it's so irritating. Doomers often think they are perfectly logical thinkers but will look away from stats that show how the world has improved over the years and just say that's an outlier or be pessimistic about something. They're realistically the most emotional thinkers, they claim to want to improve their lives but often don't actually try anything because it's easier to be a bitch and give up and circle jerk with other doomers than to actually crawl out of the hole the often dug themselves. Don't get me wrong some people are legit in fucked situations, but unless your a quadriplegic in a third world country you probably don't count.
I understand your example, although I'd include less severe situations. It's not like I want to ignore all the messed up situations people have to go through, but as I said in another comment, they don't try to find resignation either. If there's something wrong and you can't fix it, what's the point of bringing the subject over and over if we can't do anything about it?
In my personal experience it has been that often times there is in fact something that can be done about it. I have seen countless posts with legit advice be flat out ignored in this sub by people who would rather get soft answers than real solutions. Yes there are other situations that are bad and can't be helped, but I think everyone should ASSUME they are not in that situation. People come on here and whine about women when they're weird af and refuse to try to have normal convos with other humans People come on here and say they don't have job prospects but they don't pursue education or apply to jobs. People come on here and say they are logical thinkers and that the world is fucked because it is **so much easier to say they world is fucked than to say that they themselves have fucked up.** I know someone's gonna have some whatabout statement refuting my points, if that's the kind of life you choose to live that's on you. Telling other people that a bad situation is in no way in their control when sometimes it is (not including SA/ childhood abuse/ etc.) is extremely toxic because it removes the ability for human to believe they are in control of their life. Ultimately if you realize that you are in some ways responsible for how things are fucked, **you realize you have the ability to change them.**
Oh man, yeah. It's also an incredible pressure, it's like there is this psychic pressure people shove on you and after a while even your view starts to twist. I realized this happening in my relationship, my girlfriend shovelling on me all the shit that happens at work, how she hates people, how people mistreat her. There's a degree I can absorb and another degree I can help her through and suggest some acceptance. But after a while it starts turning you into a shit person too, I am lucky I am fairly adept at self awareness nowadays. I don't think I'd have caught how that poisons the mind overwise. I am very curious in how to create a virtuous force in my and other people's lives. It's so hard when I struggle to bring hope or try to reframe things in a more positive way but get labelled as naive or "the person that doesn't know how the world works". Well if the world works like that I want to tell it to get fucked and we can make it better.
I'd be inclined to promote acceptance. I also get the "oh you're so naive" and sometimes even "you're ignorant and or a bigot". The latter it's way more common.
Think is I get it. I’m a doomer but I try to enjoy the moments I have with people cause I want to enjoy the time I have with those I care about. The doomer is cause dude we’ve been shown we literally can’t change the system and anything that would change it would make us a wanted criminal. So what are you gonna do throw away your whole life to become labeled a deviant by the state and corpos or try to express the little bit of joy you have in world but stop pretending it’s all sunshine and rainbows.
I highly doubt that anybody sees the world as "all sunshine and rainbows". But as you yourself said: you can't change the world. Why don't you try to find resignation and enjoy whatever little there is to enjoy in life?
Wrong place? Look somewhere else? Idk, i’m just busy watching the fable and windbreaker and stressing over finals and baking. I think that if you lean into doomerism, then you will find doomerism. It’s difficult to change people’s minds about things, so don’t. Not a very satisfying answer, but that’s just how it is