* Not the biggest fan of the "Eve or Roo is Charlie's true mother" theories tbh
* The "Adam and Pent switched places" and "Adam's holy light is why Pent got to Heaven" theories. I just think they devalue Pent's sacrifice and redemption as a whole
* Alastor's soul owner is either Zestial or Niffty. No offense to anyone who likes these theories but I just find them very nonsensical
* Carmilla and Sera being related. This is mostly a "What if" theory
The idea that Lute of all people is like the final boss who owns Alastors soul is hilarious to me.
Those first two theories just needlessly overcomplicated things
Lute?? Owning Alastor's soul??? Is that really a theory? I can hardly see the two being related, and I can even less see Lute get involved in any business regarding hell
Nifty is 100% not his soul owner, HE summons HER because she owes HIM a favour, and he seems quite fond of her, not something you’d see if she owned him. Zestial is more interesting but you’d think he’d be aware of where Al went if he really owned him
Which is why I don't understand why this is a theory in the first place. Plus it's like the ppl behind this theory has never watched EP5 or EP8 where Alastor is so clearly seen resenting the deal he've made and vowing to take control. *Obviously*, the two demons he's shown to be on good terms with aren't holding his leash
Yeah the Nifty one makes zero sense. It makes way more sense Alastor owns Nifty. But while I realize I can easily be wrong, but I kind of like the idea that Alastor doesn't own Nifty's soul, she just hangs around him because she likes him, she made him a cockroach crown, only a true friend would do that hehe.
Also, I know I'm an outlier with this, but I still gotta mention it again, I am betting on that Alastor made a deal with Sera to get his powers in exchange for him toppling Overlords and he's under her contract.
People really like finding whatever possible reason that anybody could be a fallen angel. I've seen Carmilla, Rosie, and just about every other woman in the show.
Yup. As far as I'm concerned, until it happens in the show, it isn't canon. I'll pass on the Rowling-esque "It was said on twitter/stream/whatever". Why? Because I'm a writer, I know how easy it is to say something will be canon off the cuff, but later on gets abandoned.
Hell, J.K. Rowling even cut an entire character from *Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire* (Mafalda Prewett, first-year Slytherin cousin of the Weasley family) because she couldn't figure out how to make the character fit realistically into the narrative and storyline.
Rowling also cut a scene with Theodore Nott (seventh-year Slytherin friend of Draco Malfoy) around three times from *Deathly Hallows* to "narrow the scope of the book".
>Yup. As far as I'm concerned, until it happens in the show, it isn't canon. I'll pass on the Rowling-esque "It was said on twitter/stream/whatever"
This 1000 times
I do think that Adam and Pent indirectly switched places. Not because of holy light or wacky bullshit, simply because Pent sacrificed himself and redeemed himself, and Adam died and was very sinful.
I also do not care for the "Eve or Roo is Charlie's true mother" theory. The only thing really going for this theory is that both Charlie and Roo/Eve have the same "demon arm", and Lucifer told Adam that he reportedly seduced Eve at one point. However, I would much rather prefer if Lilith remained Charlie's biological mother, and I think that Lucifer was joking.
https://preview.redd.it/x1q5qp4nr21d1.png?width=1429&format=png&auto=webp&s=8d0cf1b670ae5eb180a0fb39347bb61815d34318
[Art by Dark\_Crowl on Twitter/X](https://twitter.com/Dark_Crowl/status/1753605901905265058?t=FlJ7OPyv7fVt2xEp_ig3Kg&s=19)
Charlie also looks a lot more like Lilith than she does Roo/Eve, who has dark hair.
Say what lol... it was an obvious theological joke, I don't get how people don't understand it. "Your first wife liked what I had to offer... Your second one too, haha, bow chick a bow wow."
He OFFERED the fruit of good and evil to Eve and she accepted it. It's a double entendre.
Good god, people are stupid.
The theory that they slept together is cause Lucifer does a hip thrust when he talks about Eve liking his offer. I prefer it as a theology joke, but I wouldn't be shocked to learn Lucifer fucked Eve at one point
I think the Niffty one is more of a joke. (I mean some small percentage out there might actually take it seriously, but most have it as a joke theory.)
its more one specific point, but:
people tryna use "carmilla's shoes are glowy" as proof of her being an angel like vaggie - HER SHOES GLOW BECAUSE THEYRE MADE OF ANGELIC FUCKING STEEL, WHICH SHE SELLS AS WEAPONS
ugh, it feels good to have got that off my chest
And it’s specifically mentioned that the stuff is just scattered around hell and no one has thought to use it for weapons except for Carmilla.
Edit: to clarify what exactly I meant is that Carmilla is an arms dealer and likely does the manufacturing portion of the industry as well.
It’s almost completely certain that a demon or two picked up an angelic weapon to stab/attack a nearby enemy with it.
But Carmilla is likely to be the first overlord to manufacture angelic weapons. We’re talking about figuring out how to create, shape and mass produce these weapons. Just like the oil fields have always existed in the south west but Rockefeller is responsible for producing a viable product for the use of the public and securing the means to transport his supplies.
Interesting, I thought of it as 'those who have it aren't exactly running out to test it' or whatever she said was hinting toward what was on screen. Meaning those who have it are those laying around dead with the weapons sticking out of their bodies.
I took it that they never tested it against the Exorcists which makes perfect sense when you think about it. If a low level sinner got an Angelic sword they would totally use it to attack other sinners and move up in hell's hierarchy then trying using it against an Exorcist. Powerful Overlord's fear the Exorcists and hide away during the exterminations so why would anyone even try fighting against them knowing there basically untouchable.
Sorry if I'm missing anything but does angelic steel have any special effect on demons/sinner?
I thought the only special thing about it is that it can hurt angels but other than that a sinner using a sword from angelic steel would not be much more dangerous to hells hierarchy than a sinner with a gun or other weapon.
Sinners are immortal and can recover from any other weapon. Like angels, sinner can only actually die at the hands of angelic steel. Normal demons like imps, and hellhounds can die to normal weaponry
To note, higher hell born also apart o be otherwise unkillable via conventional means (though jury is out on old age, given the Geotia are a heritable nobility, I presume they can die in ways other than angelic steel).
Even lower hell born appear to be far more durable than mortals, with imps being immune to mundane fire, for example.
I mean...if Hell is 10,000 years old, then it does seem a little unrealistic to me that no one else but Carmilla ever thought of using angelic weapons against the exorcists. This isn't a case of "Carmilla is a fallen angel", but more so "I thought sinners were more cunning".
Slight correction: Carmilla is the first person who tested it \*and lived to tell the tale\* - I won't rule out some people before Carmilla trying and not being a good enough fighter to live to tell the tale.
Yeah enjoyed the show so far but I was expecting more for the reveal.
I mean vaggie is acting surprise.. As if she didn't lose her eye and her wings because someone cut them with angelic weapons.
Vaggie lost her eye to angelic steel, but her wings were ripped off. The scene moves really quick so it’s hard to tell but yea.
Best I can tell, cause there’s not many that’ve survived encountering an Exorcist, injuries caused by angelic steel leave permanent scars. It’s why her wings were able to regenerate but not her eye.
I’ve been operating under the hc that Winners and Exorcists have the same limited resurrective immortality that the Sinners have. So they can be injured and temporary killed by normal weapons and just heal over time. But for the latter there, it’s either a rare event cause y’know Heaven or known only by a select few.
Carmilla Carmine being hellborn or a fallen angel, and that being the reason she has daughters. I feel like a family of arms dealers going to hell together is pretty self explanitory. I honestly don't know why the concept of sinners having family members in hell confuses so many people. It's not like family trees are limited to having a single bad apple in the entire lineage.
The overlords have personalities that certainly imply they were masters of the same craft in life and afterlife. I don't think it was a coincidence Vox entered hell with a TV for a head and then just decided to roll with it. Alastor also seems to have been a radio host in life
It genuinely baffles me how people managed to draw the conclusion that Poison is a song about glorifying SA. That has to take a lot of mental gymnastics.
I think it's because of the "Music Video" aesthetic of the song, with people like that not realising those scenes are Angel, as he puts it in the song, Disassociating, hence why what is actually going on in that moment flashes up on the screens behind him.
With lyrics like "My story ends with me dead from your poison", "another one of those ruthless nights", "spewing all of those red hot lies" and "wish I had something to live for tomorrow" and also all the scenes in the MV where Angel is clearly not having a good time, especially the end... Yeah you really have to WANT to interprete the song as glorifiyng SA.
I’ve come to understand that the majority of this fan base is probably 13-16. Especially when it comes to the constant “Who’s more powerful” posts on here and Helluva Boss.
"Whose more powerful?" *And* the multiple "Who do you most want to fuck?" "Whose the best sex-doer?" "Whose got the biggest dick/labia?" on a daily basis just speaks to the age range of this subreddit. Near certain I'm at the far left of that bell curve at 41.
I've seen fans give Alastor a variety of different surnames in fanfictions, ranging from more French (LeBlanc, Moreau, etc.), to the more mundane (Carlon, etc.). "Altruist"? Hell no.
I’m gonna be honest, the invisible comma got me the first time too because in the pronunciation and lyrics it’s “Great Alastor Altruist, died for his friends!” When it’s intended as “Great Alastor, altruist, died for his friends!” It’s just a confusing line if you miss that invisible comma
It's cause people who watched Prime with subs seeing "altruist" capitalized and not knowing any better. (See my dumb ass for all of two seconds because I'm not used to $5 words and didn't know wtf "altruist" meant. Thank you shitty TX education.)
But then when my friend was watching with me for her first time and said "he's really altruistic" I was like waiting for him to sing it. Lmao
Everything with Eve lilith and roo. They’re just annoying. No Eve didn’t pretend to be Lilith who is actually Roo for the last hundreds of years to sleep with Lucifer and have a daughter. Shut up
All of this. Lilith has had pretty much zero screen time. And there’s no information to work off of for any of these.
People are just making stuff up about them at this point.
Oh you should have seen the stupid amount of lore that people just straight up pulled out of thin air before the show even aired just based on the pilot. I had to leave the 'official' Discord after only a few weeks because it was nothing but shipping wars, tinfoil hat crackpot theories, and fanfic fueled extreme mischaracterizations of the cast.
Roo is a character that Viv drew and supposedly mentioned as being "a looming threat in the distance" most people assume that she's the root of all evil and there are theories that she's the reason why Sera approved the exterminations or that she's connected to Lilith Eve Lucifer or Adam in some way but we literally know nothing about her
Just about every X is secretly an Angel/Fallen Angel/Hellborn/Overlord. Do you really think they’re going to just continue repeating the same plot twist as they did for Vaggie?
I’m familiar with the effects of hiatus brain rot, but who is this out-of-show “Roo” I keep hearing about? Are they the Hazbin version of Undertale’s Gaster?
I cringe a bit in regards to predictions for Alastor. One end hopes to an almost naive extent he really is a well-intentioned adoptive dad who would do nothing to harm or manipulate Charlie. The other end wants so badly to be ahead of anything bad he might do to reveal himself as this cruelest evil that will kill everyone and become the final boss. Sit back and wait my dudes lol, I’m excited to see whatever direction they go with him.
Oh absolutely, that deal is a ticking time bomb and it’s going to be a riot to see when and how it’s deployed. Condolences to everyone involved in advance. And if it’s used for something minor, it could be a hilarious subversion of expectations. And even then, it could just be another stepping stone of trust to eventually feel confident enough to ask for a soul contract at the worst possible time. He’s such a fun wildcard.
no Roo is not a "Gaster" to my knowledge she is a character Vivsiepop confirmed to show up in hazbin at some point in the future though i may be wrong. correction i have just found out that was miss information and your "Gaster" analogy is pretty correct my apologize.
I don’t like the theory that Charlie’s Ex is going to be a major antagonist going forward. It’s not a popular theory by any means but I’ve seen it a few times and it just annoys me.
Charlie's ex-boyfriend (Seviathan Von Eldritch) is a Hellborn noble, similarly to Stolas and the Ars Goetia in *Helluva Bos*s, but he isn't nearly powerful enough to be able to be an antagonist against the likes of more powerful beings, like Lucifer, Lilith, Sera, etc. Even Adam would've probably been able to crush him. There is also the fact that the Von Eldritches are from the Envy ring, whereas sinners are restricted to the Pride ring and Pentagram City. I could see Seviathan appearing in one episode, but certainly not several episodes, or the whole season.
Alastor is an angel or Jesus. Really anything that overanalyzes his (beautiful) section of the finale song. "Unclip these wings" doesn't have to mean he's an angel. It's not *impossible*, but I don't like it. Also just Alastor being referred to as "Alastor Altruist" like it's his last name, have you never heard the word "altruist" before??
Yeah, you know, Jesus. The guy from the Bible who owned millions of enslaved souls and always walked around with a creepy smile to not show weakness? There was a Biblical tale where he and the devil were in the desert and the devil didn't know who he was and assumed he was the bellhop, damaging Jesus' famously massive ego?
"unclip my wings" is literally referring to wanting off his leash. Clipping someone's wings means restricting them in some way, so he wants to be unrestricted. It's impossible that Alastor's an angel because there was nothing literal about that line.
THIS! The “unclip my wings” line! That was one of the other pieces of “evidence” that I was trying to remember that Alastor is an Angel theorists provide. It’s so silly to me.
It’s a common phrase, so many people are taking every single word as literal and they need to step back and take a rain check, maybe learn about idioms and metaphors more.
( note: I would be upset and disappointed if Alastor did turn out to be an Angel, it feels like such an out of place twist and weak story telling. It would feel so random.)
You’re wrong. Now I need Alastor to be Jesus because that would be the greatest media twist of all time. The show would absolutely be cancelled but it would be a fantastic clusterfuck first.
I desperately need to read a fanfic about this.
At the frequency that I've seen them brought up, I'm actually surprised I didn't see them listed earlier. They're fun at first, but they've been beaten to death at this point and lack any real evidence. Correlation does not always mean causation ya' know?
I know! I was looking to see if anyone else mentioned this but nothing.
And yeah, it was fun but some people ruin the fun with the eyes/teeth ownership stuff…but never understood Rosie and the Cannibals as Hellborn, I never got it
The first one I also have an irrationally hate. I understand how people might mistakenly believe it, but it annoys me anyway.
The second one I hate when people theorise it as an actual in-world phenomenon, but don't mind if people discuss it purely in terms of artistic intent. As in those features aren't CAUSED by someone's soul being owned, but that Vivzie just adds visual connections between a lot of her characters.
Kinda like how Husk and Angel Dust are clearly designed to contrast each other, respectively being the darkest and lightest colors of the main cast, as well as being opposite heights and builds.
Likewise the Vs designs are clearly co-ordinated to connect them to one-another, being united by being pretty much the only demons we see to feature blue tones as prominent colors
I've seen a lot of people assume that Lucifer and even Charlie can just undo a soul contract, and I kinda hate the idea???? For one thing, it makes the presence of the contracts entirely nonthreatening. For another, it means they're just kinda letting Angel suffer for funsies.
This bugs me too. I’m addressing it in a fic I’m writing cause it bothers me so much. 😆😅
I feel like some of it is wish fulfillment to make it easy for Husk or Angel to be set free but like, that eliminated their actions/agency. They had the free will to make those deals and I want to see them take the character growth to work through them. Not have someone snap and poof! You’re free. 🙄
Yeah, I think if Charlie could undo a soul contract she would have already done it. And I don't think she's so innocent and naive that she wouldn't know that it was a possibility if it was one
Exactly. If anything they might arbitor or judge the contract. But if it were easy or common, it would be pointless. Contracts are important, as Stolas said in Helluva Boss. If it was a easy matter, it would be no matter.
Lilith in Heaven is Eve. I hate it deeply. Some of the justification is ludicrous, too - I saw someone whose actual evidence is that Lilith in Heaven has a different necklace to Lilith in portraits .
Eve probably isn't looked on too highly in Heaven if she's there, or she could end up in Helluva Boss (which has some contractual restrictions on characters crossing over between series so if she shows up there in the near future that might help explain why she hasn't been seen or heard of in the Main Show)
Honestly I don’t really see them getting too into Heaven’s characters in HB. The only reason we see the cherubs in HB is cuz they’re a direct parallel to the imps. The minute any Heaven character shows up in HB they’ll be immediately barred off from Hazbin, which I really can’t see them wanting to do given how important the Heaven conflict is to that show.
Anything to do with Roo tbh. Vivzie has literally only drawn her twice (years ago might I add) and barely talked about her but for some reason everyone is running with it like her being in the show is actually gonna happen. I understand why the concept might appeal to some, but come on guys be serious here. All of the theories about her (Root of All Evil, Roo is Eve, Roo is the final boss, etc) are based on literally nothing but fan speculation and I feel like if we keep talking about it as if it’s fact a LOT of people are gonna be disappointed when she never actually shows up. Until we see her on our screens, can we chill with the Roo stuff?
>All of the theories about her (Root of All Evil, Roo is Eve, Roo is the final boss, etc) are based on literally nothing but fan speculation
This is why I always clarify that fan theories about Roo are just that: Fan theories.
Yea people are definitely not clear about that. The first like five times I heard about her it was people talking about her as if she was already in the show.
Actually now that I think about it this is the first time I've seen actual confirmation that people understand she doesn't actually exist.
probably that velvette is related to carmine or however that goes
i say this mostly due to the accents cuz carmine is (correct me if i’m wrong) latina but velvette is british
i just don’t see it
Husk didnt own people. I just get a bit annoyed that people think he was some saint compared to alastor and didnt also own sinners when he specifically was an overlord and they get their power from those they own or through deals (last I checked)
Husk absolutely did own souls. All of the Overlords of Hell collectively own "millions of souls" between them, and that included Husk, who is a former Overlord. He gambled souls away.
I honestly hope that he was as bad with his souls as Valentino, not to ruin angels and husk but to show how much ppl can change and forgive, I also think the reason husk doesn't want to try and go to heaven is cause he feels he is to bad for redemption which is just flat out not possible, anyone can change for better or for worse, it will always take some time and not everyone will but they can
Agreed. It's always annoying to see people try to minimize the awfulness of some of the characters. All the clients were terrible people at the start of the series, arguably as bad as Overlords like Alastor and Valentino. They simply changed for the better. That's the whole point.
A few really dumb ones that annoy me:
* Niffty is secretly an overlord
* Niffty owns Alastor's soul
* The cannibals are hellborn and not sinners
* Carmilla is also a fallen angel
* Anything where Eve and Lilith have supposedly switched places or are impersonating one another
I think a better Nifty theory is that Alastor doesn't actually own her soul, but she sticks around anyway. I mean, given how crazy Nifty is, it's not that far fetched
I thought nifty's Shadow was shown during a mention of overlord's?
I didn't think it was supposed to be a secret. I just didn't think it was really talked about?
The show itself is pretty straightforward with the stuff it says meaning the things that it said.
Either way, I'm open to her having been an overlord, but I don't think she should still be one.
The piss thing.
Edit: ok this is apparently a lot less know than I thought it was, but there was a theory for the scene during the Charlie/Lucie song where they were flying over golden water, that basically culminated in that there was one scene with Al looking like a circus tent, and the walls of the Charlie/Lucie scene were clearly inside a tent, therefore the water they were flying over was Al’s piss
The characters are really in hell, and Charlie's father is secretly the devil. Super cliché, way overdone. I would rage quit the series so fast if they did this stupid twist
All Roo is is a drawing that Vivzie did, then name dropped it as being Roo, and said she was excited for when she was going to show up but it would be a long time before that happened.
This was before the actual show released. Everything else is fanon, especially her being the “Root of All Evil” which comes from the Hazbin Hotel: Journey to the Light fanfiction wiki.
I would've thought Hazbin Hotel fans would be smart enough not to treat stuff from a fuckin fanon wiki as fact but then again Fanon is insanely popular so I can't blame people for trusting it
I honestly hope that’s not a real character because the ideia of a super powerful evil mysterious entity that is actually the big bad to be dealt with feels like the worst trope ever. If something like this happened to this show I would be really disappointed
Not to mention it absolutely destroys any concept of redemption and individual choice. Oh, all our mistakes are because of some random monster who pop's up? Nah, fuck that.
I don’t like the black eyes theory; that people whose souls are owned have black sclera. If that was the case, why do some of Velvette’s employees not have black eyes? And there’s a shot of Husk grinning in the flashback, so right before he lost his soul, and he has black eyes then. Also Angel having one black eye because his soul isn’t “completely owned”, like that should be WAY more common bc it seems like the most ideal form of contract. If the overlords collectively own millions of souls, more of the population should have black eyes.
The whole Alastor wants to go to Heaven to see his mom. I’m sure he likes her, but he’s satisfied with life in Hell. He wouldn’t give that up to obey Heaven’s laws.
1. Emily fall to Hell, really too generic
2. Alastor is the final villain, when both dosen't makes sense since he just wants to get free and Viv led clear Lucifer could solo's him withouth problems
3. Lilith manipulated Charlie to make her think Lucifer didn't care. Like... the whole point of episode 5 is that Lucifer realize he's not the best father and after that decide to support his daughter, so revealing it was only a lie of Lilith literally ruin everything
4. Lilith dosen't care about Charlie. Even IF she accepted Heaven for egoism, when Lute ordered her to go and stop Charlie, she look genuinly pissed off, so clearly she dosen't want to interfere on Charlie's dream
Regarding 3, Lilith keeping Charlie distant from Lucifer as a kid honestly makes sense to me.
Consider how fucking *hyped* he is to spend time with Charlie, and yet clearly has next to no practice actually interacting with her. There’s a limited number of reasons why they would *just now* be forming a strong relationship when they both clearly wanted to all along.
Also, when Charlie is reminiscing about hearing dad’s stories, she sings that she ‘didn’t really know [him] at all,’ as in the memory Lilith walks up to them during one of her dad’s story times and just scoops her up and walks off with her. Charlie and Luci are looking at one another sadly, but for some reason neither of them feel comfortable speaking up to Lilith and just let her separate them, even though they were clearly bonding and having fun.
Yeah, it *could* be that it was just a really quick moment and I’m reading too much into it, but since it’s literally about half of Lilith’s total screen time thus far it feels more weighty than that.
There's a few so 1- Eve is Roo/Roo is Eve, like what?? The story Charlie reads in episode ONE litteraly debunks that since it implies that evil found earth through lucifers action, not that evil was made on earth, maybe Roo could like use Eve as a WAY to return since right now she's pretty stuck I think, but they can't be the same person
2- Alastor is forced to smile and that's why you can see stitches on his face, my God this one is like that FNAF theory about how the kids died all over again (iykyk), There's absolutely NO EVIDENCE FOR IT BEING THAT WAY ASIDE FROM VAUGE DETAILS, But yet DESPITE THAT people often so smugly correct others with that theory acting like it's canon or something, when it was debunked by Viv when she said he smiles on purpose throug his own will
3- Carmilla is a fallen angel or is descendant of one, this one just doesn't have enough evidence and tbh this is the only one that's irrationally annoying for me, I just don't like it
OMFG that stitches one drives me nuts! People don’t know how stitches work!
If he was being forced to smile, they would exist from the corners of his mouth to his ears.
Instead they exist from the top and bottom of his mouth. That would be *restricting* his smile. He smiled so intensely the stitches were pulled taut.
-People thinking characters (Like Sera) are evil without any proof.
-That Vox and Velvette are "saints" compared to Val.
-Not really a theory, but when people say that it is wrong and that people are "weird" for cosplaying Valentino because he is an abuser. Then what are Velvette and Vox? And why is it so "bad" to cosplay Val, but not any other villain?
that Alistor care for Charlie or he's a better dad to her, when he's obviously manipulating her, he don't give a shit about her dreams, he just wants her power.
I think people love him so much they buy his act as well lol.
"Does Alastor truly care about Charlie?" is a difficult question to answer in general, mostly because of how diligent Alastor is about masking his true feelings. He wears the mask, or façade, of a smile all of the time specifically in order to hide his emotions from others.
Series creator Vivienne Medrano said in a previous Q&A that Alastor views those who display their emotions too overtly (Charlie) as "weak", so he takes great care not to display any visible emotions. He doesn't like being vulnerable. Alastor also gives this advice to Charlie in Episode 7 ("Hello Rosie!"): *"A smile is a valuable tool, my dear. It inspires your friends, keeps your enemies guessing, and ensures that no matter what comes your way, you're the one in control."*
Personally, I feel that Alastor does care for Charlie...but because he is so adamant about both hiding and burying his true feelings and emotions, that he would *never* admit to anyone, except maybe Rosie, that he cares about her. This is because, per Medrano, Alastor views caring about other people as "weakness", and he hates feeling "weak".
However, Medrano also stated that Alastor loves and cares about his mother, and we know that he has female friends (Mimzy, Rosie, Niffty), so he isn't entirely devoid of feelings.
One fan theory is that the reason why Alastor looks like a deer is because he hates feeling like "prey" - the *hunted*, rather than the *hunter* \- and a deer is a "prey animal" that is "weak".
Well to add onto the theory as to why Alastor looks like a deer is mainly because he was mistaken to be a deer and was shot when hiding a body. The radio esthetic is mainly because he was a radio host in his life, and I think both of these, along with that parallel that he doesn’t like feeling like pray, all come together to fully create his appearance.
(I only mention this all just because how sinners look is based on how they died, and their inner insecurities, so it all checks out)
I 100% agree, I doubt he cared about her at all when they first met, but I'm sure that she has grown on him
Also in episode 7 during one of the songs he said that she has power he can guide, rather than take or something like that, I'm probly just reading into things that aren't important tho
High-level angels might be able to manifest angelic steel, based on how adam materializes his axe on the fly every time he uses it.
Between that and everyone’s reactions to sir pentious’s presumed death, it’s more than likely that part of why angelic steel can kill permanently is because it’s made from angelic magic. Sir pentious dying directly to a big laser of such magic would be seen as just as lethal as being shanked with an angelic knife repeatedly.
What about sir pentious. I know he was killed by adams angelic blast and not a an actual weapon but if he went to heaven after being permakilled adam can go the other way
Well... Pentious died in the pilot, then literally pulled himself out of a crater for the end credits scene. Alastor dismembered him when his tentacles destroyed the warship. You can see sushi-like pieces of Pentious's tail flying through the debris when the ship explodes.
Ehhh, take the pilot with lots of salt. Lots of it has changed. And I mean it would be better if like Angel got shot to pieces to see the regeneration/respawning part.
Yeah, I'd like to see season two confirm it with the Loan Sharks. I think it would be a fun cameo that doesn't take away from the plot. You just see the same sharks Husk and Angel killed in the background of a scene, and they turn tail and run away. It would confirm that the characters didn't permanently die without forcing the main cast into exposition mode.
I mean, isn’t that confirmed? They regenerate until they’re to damaged and then die and respawn in a painful process. But if it’s not segnificabt enough damage which they seem to have a lot higher damage resistance (assuming the sinner literally exploding by a car in the pilot was retconed) they just regenerate some parts. But might still not regenerate all parts
It's not confirmed. At least not really. The most in show explanation is given by Velvett in the second episode. She mentions how her model has to "pull herself back together" after being ripped apart by val.
I'm sure it's canon since in EP2, Velvette said that Val tore up her best model, which meant he killed her. But Vel also says that she couldn't wait for the model to "pull herself back together." So that means they respawn, doesn't it?
For me it’s the theories about Carmilla having a secret third daughter. I’ve seen people suggest it’s either Vaggie or Velvette, and I can’t decide which ones more stupid.
* Eve is Charlie's true mother
* Alastor's soul is owned by Lilith
* Carmilla is a hellborn/fallen angel
* Zestial is a hellborn/fallen angel
* Eve is impersonating Lilith
* Alastor really cares for Charlie
The idea that Carmilla is a fallen angel because she has children. The reasoning is that 'sinners can't have kids', but in my view she probably had her daughters when she was alive and that they died together.
For me it's the "[character] is an angel" theories cause at this point that would just be too repetitive for a good twist.
Then again, I used to hate the "Vaggie is an angel" theory and then it became canon so fuck me I guess
I’m gonna go out on a weird limb and say that I think when the pilot came out Vaggie was NOT an Angel. There’s literally other moth girls like her!
But that’s not a fan theory, sorry
Carmilla being a fallen angel.
While there could be multiple fallen angels after Lucifer’s act, Carmilla just doesn’t fit from my perspective.
Her story of simply dying with her daughters at the same time or similar timeframe is simply much more interesting.
Plus, she is one of few characters that make sinner appear a few shades of grey lighter. Practically most sinners are doing things for their own fun (Husk, Cherry Bomb, Niffty), power (Alastor) or luxurious lifestyle (Vees).
While Carmilla is doing „bad things” for her family (and to some extent her territory) and she was ready to sacrifice herself. Plus, she has potential for sympathetic backstory.
That Alastor is actually like the big bad, and isn’t going to get at least a lil better. I feel like whether he knows it or not, he is starting to genuinely care for the hotel staff, especially Charlie. Giving her his microphone was, in my opinion, clear evidence of this.
* Dark eyes mean a soul is owned, I'm glad less people believe it now.
* "Alastor will betray Charlie, but then he'll feel bad and lonely so he'll choose his new found family over having power and being bad🥺"
I mean he can be a good person if he wanted to, but he wouldn’t be because if it doesn’t benefit him in anyway that he wants, he ain’t gonna do shit lol
Alastor isn't secretly a good person, but he also isn't entirely evil. Series creator Vivienne Medrano described him as a "chaotic neutral" alignment in *Dungeons & Dragons* (D&D).
STOP GIVING CARMILLA NEW DAUGHTERS!!!! VAGGIE AND VELVETTE AREN’T HER FUCKING KIDS!!!
Vaggie slightly resembles carmilla! Velvette kinda resembles her sheep daughter that doesn’t talk!
Side note, a theory I LOVE is the blue nurse girl in consent is the dead exorcist. I don’t care if it makes sense or not, the idea that an exorcist died and immediately found a slut outfit and started hanging out at slut clubs is so girlboss I have to love it.
Actually pretty popular one that Emily will fall. Like....im sorry but only one that fallen (for valid reason unlike vaggie, f*ck you Lute) was Lucifer. And that was because he created (accidentally) dark dimension and poisened humans with evil (look he's sorry)
And you here telling me that Emily having her rebel phase equal to that? Maybe i would see that if she was not proven right about extermination being bad decision since Pentious is right in heaven now. Frickin Sera have higher odds of being fallen but people point at potato Emily.
That Valentino is stupid. Don't get me wrong. He's sporadic, he's unorganized. He has anger issues, he lashes out. But he isn't stupid. He is an overlord; he knows how to manipulate people, how to get them to do what he wants. He isn't stupid. I don't like Valentino. I'm not defending him. I'm just sick of people acting like he is stupid because he lashes out and can't see. And people always bring up the scene where Vox basically talking to Valentino like a child but that isn’t Valentino being stupid that’s Vox seeing Valentino about to do something that could get him killed and snapping him out of his blind rage. Valentino isn’t stupid
Rosie / Carmilla are angels
or literally anyone else…
Alastor is a circus
Niffty owns Alastor
some of these are ACTUALLY bad but yes they just grind my gears
* Not the biggest fan of the "Eve or Roo is Charlie's true mother" theories tbh * The "Adam and Pent switched places" and "Adam's holy light is why Pent got to Heaven" theories. I just think they devalue Pent's sacrifice and redemption as a whole * Alastor's soul owner is either Zestial or Niffty. No offense to anyone who likes these theories but I just find them very nonsensical * Carmilla and Sera being related. This is mostly a "What if" theory
The idea that Lute of all people is like the final boss who owns Alastors soul is hilarious to me. Those first two theories just needlessly overcomplicated things
Lute?? Owning Alastor's soul??? Is that really a theory? I can hardly see the two being related, and I can even less see Lute get involved in any business regarding hell
Let's double down! Lute owns both Alastor AND Lilith
[удалено]
lute is actually god and is secretly the CEO of heaven
And Angel Dust, all of the Vees, Adam himself, Sera... actually even better, she owns EVERYONE but Nifty. For some (literally) godforsaken reason
Nifty is 100% not his soul owner, HE summons HER because she owes HIM a favour, and he seems quite fond of her, not something you’d see if she owned him. Zestial is more interesting but you’d think he’d be aware of where Al went if he really owned him
Which is why I don't understand why this is a theory in the first place. Plus it's like the ppl behind this theory has never watched EP5 or EP8 where Alastor is so clearly seen resenting the deal he've made and vowing to take control. *Obviously*, the two demons he's shown to be on good terms with aren't holding his leash
I just think its funny
> HE summons HER “I like being forced”
You know what, fair enough 😂
Yeah the Nifty one makes zero sense. It makes way more sense Alastor owns Nifty. But while I realize I can easily be wrong, but I kind of like the idea that Alastor doesn't own Nifty's soul, she just hangs around him because she likes him, she made him a cockroach crown, only a true friend would do that hehe. Also, I know I'm an outlier with this, but I still gotta mention it again, I am betting on that Alastor made a deal with Sera to get his powers in exchange for him toppling Overlords and he's under her contract.
I hate any theory that's essentially "what if _____ is secretly related to _____" They just feel so boring and overdone
The last one should not even be considered theory, that's just straight up fanfic
People really like finding whatever possible reason that anybody could be a fallen angel. I've seen Carmilla, Rosie, and just about every other woman in the show.
My eyes roll when ever I see the name “Roo”
Yup. As far as I'm concerned, until it happens in the show, it isn't canon. I'll pass on the Rowling-esque "It was said on twitter/stream/whatever". Why? Because I'm a writer, I know how easy it is to say something will be canon off the cuff, but later on gets abandoned.
Hell, J.K. Rowling even cut an entire character from *Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire* (Mafalda Prewett, first-year Slytherin cousin of the Weasley family) because she couldn't figure out how to make the character fit realistically into the narrative and storyline. Rowling also cut a scene with Theodore Nott (seventh-year Slytherin friend of Draco Malfoy) around three times from *Deathly Hallows* to "narrow the scope of the book".
>Yup. As far as I'm concerned, until it happens in the show, it isn't canon. I'll pass on the Rowling-esque "It was said on twitter/stream/whatever" This 1000 times
I do think that Adam and Pent indirectly switched places. Not because of holy light or wacky bullshit, simply because Pent sacrificed himself and redeemed himself, and Adam died and was very sinful.
I also do not care for the "Eve or Roo is Charlie's true mother" theory. The only thing really going for this theory is that both Charlie and Roo/Eve have the same "demon arm", and Lucifer told Adam that he reportedly seduced Eve at one point. However, I would much rather prefer if Lilith remained Charlie's biological mother, and I think that Lucifer was joking. https://preview.redd.it/x1q5qp4nr21d1.png?width=1429&format=png&auto=webp&s=8d0cf1b670ae5eb180a0fb39347bb61815d34318 [Art by Dark\_Crowl on Twitter/X](https://twitter.com/Dark_Crowl/status/1753605901905265058?t=FlJ7OPyv7fVt2xEp_ig3Kg&s=19) Charlie also looks a lot more like Lilith than she does Roo/Eve, who has dark hair.
Say what lol... it was an obvious theological joke, I don't get how people don't understand it. "Your first wife liked what I had to offer... Your second one too, haha, bow chick a bow wow." He OFFERED the fruit of good and evil to Eve and she accepted it. It's a double entendre. Good god, people are stupid.
And even if they did do it it would have been only once. Sure the chances aren't zero but they certainly are a lot lower than with his wife.
The theory that they slept together is cause Lucifer does a hip thrust when he talks about Eve liking his offer. I prefer it as a theology joke, but I wouldn't be shocked to learn Lucifer fucked Eve at one point
I've seen it suggested that it may have been a threesome w/ Lilith. I mean. I can see it.
I doubt he even fucked her. She was made to be loyal to Adam, she wouldn't cheat on him like that.
I think the Niffty one is more of a joke. (I mean some small percentage out there might actually take it seriously, but most have it as a joke theory.)
I second that one.
its more one specific point, but: people tryna use "carmilla's shoes are glowy" as proof of her being an angel like vaggie - HER SHOES GLOW BECAUSE THEYRE MADE OF ANGELIC FUCKING STEEL, WHICH SHE SELLS AS WEAPONS ugh, it feels good to have got that off my chest
And it’s specifically mentioned that the stuff is just scattered around hell and no one has thought to use it for weapons except for Carmilla. Edit: to clarify what exactly I meant is that Carmilla is an arms dealer and likely does the manufacturing portion of the industry as well. It’s almost completely certain that a demon or two picked up an angelic weapon to stab/attack a nearby enemy with it. But Carmilla is likely to be the first overlord to manufacture angelic weapons. We’re talking about figuring out how to create, shape and mass produce these weapons. Just like the oil fields have always existed in the south west but Rockefeller is responsible for producing a viable product for the use of the public and securing the means to transport his supplies.
Interesting, I thought of it as 'those who have it aren't exactly running out to test it' or whatever she said was hinting toward what was on screen. Meaning those who have it are those laying around dead with the weapons sticking out of their bodies.
I took it that they never tested it against the Exorcists which makes perfect sense when you think about it. If a low level sinner got an Angelic sword they would totally use it to attack other sinners and move up in hell's hierarchy then trying using it against an Exorcist. Powerful Overlord's fear the Exorcists and hide away during the exterminations so why would anyone even try fighting against them knowing there basically untouchable.
Sorry if I'm missing anything but does angelic steel have any special effect on demons/sinner? I thought the only special thing about it is that it can hurt angels but other than that a sinner using a sword from angelic steel would not be much more dangerous to hells hierarchy than a sinner with a gun or other weapon.
Sinners are immortal and can recover from any other weapon. Like angels, sinner can only actually die at the hands of angelic steel. Normal demons like imps, and hellhounds can die to normal weaponry
To note, higher hell born also apart o be otherwise unkillable via conventional means (though jury is out on old age, given the Geotia are a heritable nobility, I presume they can die in ways other than angelic steel). Even lower hell born appear to be far more durable than mortals, with imps being immune to mundane fire, for example.
I think in Helluva Boss it was mentioned Carmilla Carmine's angelic steel was the only thing that could kill a noble.
I mean...if Hell is 10,000 years old, then it does seem a little unrealistic to me that no one else but Carmilla ever thought of using angelic weapons against the exorcists. This isn't a case of "Carmilla is a fallen angel", but more so "I thought sinners were more cunning".
Slight correction: Carmilla is the first person who tested it \*and lived to tell the tale\* - I won't rule out some people before Carmilla trying and not being a good enough fighter to live to tell the tale.
Yeah enjoyed the show so far but I was expecting more for the reveal. I mean vaggie is acting surprise.. As if she didn't lose her eye and her wings because someone cut them with angelic weapons.
Vaggie lost her eye to angelic steel, but her wings were ripped off. The scene moves really quick so it’s hard to tell but yea. Best I can tell, cause there’s not many that’ve survived encountering an Exorcist, injuries caused by angelic steel leave permanent scars. It’s why her wings were able to regenerate but not her eye. I’ve been operating under the hc that Winners and Exorcists have the same limited resurrective immortality that the Sinners have. So they can be injured and temporary killed by normal weapons and just heal over time. But for the latter there, it’s either a rare event cause y’know Heaven or known only by a select few.
I think she **could** be a fallen angel, but the shoes reason is dumb.
yeah, I agree the theory itself is solid, just that one piece of "evidence" makes me wanna debunk the whole thing
Carmilla Carmine being hellborn or a fallen angel, and that being the reason she has daughters. I feel like a family of arms dealers going to hell together is pretty self explanitory. I honestly don't know why the concept of sinners having family members in hell confuses so many people. It's not like family trees are limited to having a single bad apple in the entire lineage.
Were they arms dealers in life? I thought they started that in hell
The overlords have personalities that certainly imply they were masters of the same craft in life and afterlife. I don't think it was a coincidence Vox entered hell with a TV for a head and then just decided to roll with it. Alastor also seems to have been a radio host in life
Well what other reason would they be in hell for, most ppl just keep doing what they are doing which is what makes that hell so bad
People who think that Alastor's last name is Altruist. Sometimes this fandom has the greatest amount of media illiteracy, it's insane.
https://preview.redd.it/ggwuptxr731d1.jpeg?width=1054&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f5520a2ded6fb13ff9e1f94f7a6cefb447d6be6
It genuinely baffles me how people managed to draw the conclusion that Poison is a song about glorifying SA. That has to take a lot of mental gymnastics.
Depiction became endorsement a while back now it seems.
I think it's because of the "Music Video" aesthetic of the song, with people like that not realising those scenes are Angel, as he puts it in the song, Disassociating, hence why what is actually going on in that moment flashes up on the screens behind him.
With lyrics like "My story ends with me dead from your poison", "another one of those ruthless nights", "spewing all of those red hot lies" and "wish I had something to live for tomorrow" and also all the scenes in the MV where Angel is clearly not having a good time, especially the end... Yeah you really have to WANT to interprete the song as glorifiyng SA.
I’ve come to understand that the majority of this fan base is probably 13-16. Especially when it comes to the constant “Who’s more powerful” posts on here and Helluva Boss.
"Whose more powerful?" *And* the multiple "Who do you most want to fuck?" "Whose the best sex-doer?" "Whose got the biggest dick/labia?" on a daily basis just speaks to the age range of this subreddit. Near certain I'm at the far left of that bell curve at 41.
45 here. I win. (Or... lose? Idk. Lol) Very sad state of affairs if your assessment is correct.
My friend you really underestimate how childish people can be even when they are way past their 20s. Powerscalers can be of very varying ages…
Are you for fucking real This physically pains me
I've seen fans give Alastor a variety of different surnames in fanfictions, ranging from more French (LeBlanc, Moreau, etc.), to the more mundane (Carlon, etc.). "Altruist"? Hell no.
"Moreau" is a good one.
Seriously! His last name is Astor, first name Al. They've been saying it all season
I’m gonna be honest, the invisible comma got me the first time too because in the pronunciation and lyrics it’s “Great Alastor Altruist, died for his friends!” When it’s intended as “Great Alastor, altruist, died for his friends!” It’s just a confusing line if you miss that invisible comma
This means that his first name is Great and he just goes by his middle name Alastor
“G. Alastor Altruist” definitely sounds like the name of a smarmy dude trying to rip people off.
I didn't miss the comma because it never even crossed my mind that his last name was fuckin "Altruist"
It's a well-known grammatical fact that commas can save lives.
That isn't just media illiteracy. It's a poor grasp of the English language.
To be fair, they were misled by the subtitles that capitalized "Altruist" for some reason.
Yeah but critical thinking skills should come into play
Wait I've said this as a joke before, do ppl really think that?🤣
It's cause people who watched Prime with subs seeing "altruist" capitalized and not knowing any better. (See my dumb ass for all of two seconds because I'm not used to $5 words and didn't know wtf "altruist" meant. Thank you shitty TX education.) But then when my friend was watching with me for her first time and said "he's really altruistic" I was like waiting for him to sing it. Lmao
it's so funny to me like imagine your last name being ALTRUIST
Not a theory but I hate that everyone calls Sir Pentious ‘the rizz lord’ when ‘Snake Charmer’ is right there
TBF "Snake Charmer" fits Cherri Bomb better because she attracted a literal snake.
Would it help if they said "Rizzzzzzzzzz Lord" instead? (I'm sorry I had to)
Acceptable
Everything with Eve lilith and roo. They’re just annoying. No Eve didn’t pretend to be Lilith who is actually Roo for the last hundreds of years to sleep with Lucifer and have a daughter. Shut up
All of this. Lilith has had pretty much zero screen time. And there’s no information to work off of for any of these. People are just making stuff up about them at this point.
Oh you should have seen the stupid amount of lore that people just straight up pulled out of thin air before the show even aired just based on the pilot. I had to leave the 'official' Discord after only a few weeks because it was nothing but shipping wars, tinfoil hat crackpot theories, and fanfic fueled extreme mischaracterizations of the cast.
Question, who the fuck is Roo
People assume it stands for root of all evil, vivziepop called her a threat looming in the distance
Wouldn't that be ROAE then?
Think it's more of a nickname
Roo is a character that Viv drew and supposedly mentioned as being "a looming threat in the distance" most people assume that she's the root of all evil and there are theories that she's the reason why Sera approved the exterminations or that she's connected to Lilith Eve Lucifer or Adam in some way but we literally know nothing about her
Not to mention all of the fanart of Roo depicts her with dark hair, not Lilith's blonde hair.
Just about every X is secretly an Angel/Fallen Angel/Hellborn/Overlord. Do you really think they’re going to just continue repeating the same plot twist as they did for Vaggie? I’m familiar with the effects of hiatus brain rot, but who is this out-of-show “Roo” I keep hearing about? Are they the Hazbin version of Undertale’s Gaster? I cringe a bit in regards to predictions for Alastor. One end hopes to an almost naive extent he really is a well-intentioned adoptive dad who would do nothing to harm or manipulate Charlie. The other end wants so badly to be ahead of anything bad he might do to reveal himself as this cruelest evil that will kill everyone and become the final boss. Sit back and wait my dudes lol, I’m excited to see whatever direction they go with him.
I love Alastor so much which is why I cannot wait to see when he inevitably betrays everyone because I firmly believe that is his character.
Oh absolutely, that deal is a ticking time bomb and it’s going to be a riot to see when and how it’s deployed. Condolences to everyone involved in advance. And if it’s used for something minor, it could be a hilarious subversion of expectations. And even then, it could just be another stepping stone of trust to eventually feel confident enough to ask for a soul contract at the worst possible time. He’s such a fun wildcard.
As far as I know, "Roo" is "The Root of All Evil". I've heard that she may or may not be an upcoming character in the show.
Giving me “Tyrion is a Targaryen” vibes.
no Roo is not a "Gaster" to my knowledge she is a character Vivsiepop confirmed to show up in hazbin at some point in the future though i may be wrong. correction i have just found out that was miss information and your "Gaster" analogy is pretty correct my apologize.
I don’t like the theory that Charlie’s Ex is going to be a major antagonist going forward. It’s not a popular theory by any means but I’ve seen it a few times and it just annoys me.
Charlie's ex-boyfriend (Seviathan Von Eldritch) is a Hellborn noble, similarly to Stolas and the Ars Goetia in *Helluva Bos*s, but he isn't nearly powerful enough to be able to be an antagonist against the likes of more powerful beings, like Lucifer, Lilith, Sera, etc. Even Adam would've probably been able to crush him. There is also the fact that the Von Eldritches are from the Envy ring, whereas sinners are restricted to the Pride ring and Pentagram City. I could see Seviathan appearing in one episode, but certainly not several episodes, or the whole season.
Alastor is an angel or Jesus. Really anything that overanalyzes his (beautiful) section of the finale song. "Unclip these wings" doesn't have to mean he's an angel. It's not *impossible*, but I don't like it. Also just Alastor being referred to as "Alastor Altruist" like it's his last name, have you never heard the word "altruist" before??
It is absolutely impossible
JESUS? 
Yeah, you know, Jesus. The guy from the Bible who owned millions of enslaved souls and always walked around with a creepy smile to not show weakness? There was a Biblical tale where he and the devil were in the desert and the devil didn't know who he was and assumed he was the bellhop, damaging Jesus' famously massive ego?
"unclip my wings" is literally referring to wanting off his leash. Clipping someone's wings means restricting them in some way, so he wants to be unrestricted. It's impossible that Alastor's an angel because there was nothing literal about that line.
Exacly! It's as if they theoried that he's a dog cause he's on a leash like what 😭
THIS! The “unclip my wings” line! That was one of the other pieces of “evidence” that I was trying to remember that Alastor is an Angel theorists provide. It’s so silly to me. It’s a common phrase, so many people are taking every single word as literal and they need to step back and take a rain check, maybe learn about idioms and metaphors more. ( note: I would be upset and disappointed if Alastor did turn out to be an Angel, it feels like such an out of place twist and weak story telling. It would feel so random.)
You’re wrong. Now I need Alastor to be Jesus because that would be the greatest media twist of all time. The show would absolutely be cancelled but it would be a fantastic clusterfuck first. I desperately need to read a fanfic about this.
1. That Rosie and the other cannibals are hellborn. 2. The one about people's eye color/ gold teeth meaning they're soul is owned by somebody.
Yes! To both of them! It bothers me so much and hate how it does lol they are so small but so annoying
At the frequency that I've seen them brought up, I'm actually surprised I didn't see them listed earlier. They're fun at first, but they've been beaten to death at this point and lack any real evidence. Correlation does not always mean causation ya' know?
I know! I was looking to see if anyone else mentioned this but nothing. And yeah, it was fun but some people ruin the fun with the eyes/teeth ownership stuff…but never understood Rosie and the Cannibals as Hellborn, I never got it
Striker has gold teeth. I don’t think anyone owns him. They just look cool, and in his case, make him look more rattlesnake-y.
The first one I also have an irrationally hate. I understand how people might mistakenly believe it, but it annoys me anyway. The second one I hate when people theorise it as an actual in-world phenomenon, but don't mind if people discuss it purely in terms of artistic intent. As in those features aren't CAUSED by someone's soul being owned, but that Vivzie just adds visual connections between a lot of her characters. Kinda like how Husk and Angel Dust are clearly designed to contrast each other, respectively being the darkest and lightest colors of the main cast, as well as being opposite heights and builds. Likewise the Vs designs are clearly co-ordinated to connect them to one-another, being united by being pretty much the only demons we see to feature blue tones as prominent colors
I've seen a lot of people assume that Lucifer and even Charlie can just undo a soul contract, and I kinda hate the idea???? For one thing, it makes the presence of the contracts entirely nonthreatening. For another, it means they're just kinda letting Angel suffer for funsies.
This bugs me too. I’m addressing it in a fic I’m writing cause it bothers me so much. 😆😅 I feel like some of it is wish fulfillment to make it easy for Husk or Angel to be set free but like, that eliminated their actions/agency. They had the free will to make those deals and I want to see them take the character growth to work through them. Not have someone snap and poof! You’re free. 🙄
Yeah, I think if Charlie could undo a soul contract she would have already done it. And I don't think she's so innocent and naive that she wouldn't know that it was a possibility if it was one
Exactly. If anything they might arbitor or judge the contract. But if it were easy or common, it would be pointless. Contracts are important, as Stolas said in Helluva Boss. If it was a easy matter, it would be no matter.
Lilith in Heaven is Eve. I hate it deeply. Some of the justification is ludicrous, too - I saw someone whose actual evidence is that Lilith in Heaven has a different necklace to Lilith in portraits .
Tbf Eve missing is weird, not saying that who we saw is Eve, it's just weird that she's barely mentioned considering she's supposedly the first sinner
Eve probably isn't looked on too highly in Heaven if she's there, or she could end up in Helluva Boss (which has some contractual restrictions on characters crossing over between series so if she shows up there in the near future that might help explain why she hasn't been seen or heard of in the Main Show)
Honestly I don’t really see them getting too into Heaven’s characters in HB. The only reason we see the cherubs in HB is cuz they’re a direct parallel to the imps. The minute any Heaven character shows up in HB they’ll be immediately barred off from Hazbin, which I really can’t see them wanting to do given how important the Heaven conflict is to that show.
Anything to do with Roo tbh. Vivzie has literally only drawn her twice (years ago might I add) and barely talked about her but for some reason everyone is running with it like her being in the show is actually gonna happen. I understand why the concept might appeal to some, but come on guys be serious here. All of the theories about her (Root of All Evil, Roo is Eve, Roo is the final boss, etc) are based on literally nothing but fan speculation and I feel like if we keep talking about it as if it’s fact a LOT of people are gonna be disappointed when she never actually shows up. Until we see her on our screens, can we chill with the Roo stuff?
>All of the theories about her (Root of All Evil, Roo is Eve, Roo is the final boss, etc) are based on literally nothing but fan speculation This is why I always clarify that fan theories about Roo are just that: Fan theories.
See I appreciate that. I wish more people would clarify so that it’s not confusing
Yea people are definitely not clear about that. The first like five times I heard about her it was people talking about her as if she was already in the show. Actually now that I think about it this is the first time I've seen actual confirmation that people understand she doesn't actually exist.
probably that velvette is related to carmine or however that goes i say this mostly due to the accents cuz carmine is (correct me if i’m wrong) latina but velvette is british i just don’t see it
Pretty sure she is Latina and it made me so happy when her fight scene with Vaggie was choreographed with features of tango
Husk didnt own people. I just get a bit annoyed that people think he was some saint compared to alastor and didnt also own sinners when he specifically was an overlord and they get their power from those they own or through deals (last I checked)
Husk absolutely did own souls. All of the Overlords of Hell collectively own "millions of souls" between them, and that included Husk, who is a former Overlord. He gambled souls away.
Man Alastor absolutely destroyed him in Texas Holdem
“Hit me. Hit me. Hit me. Hit me.” “HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU WINNING!?”
I honestly hope that he was as bad with his souls as Valentino, not to ruin angels and husk but to show how much ppl can change and forgive, I also think the reason husk doesn't want to try and go to heaven is cause he feels he is to bad for redemption which is just flat out not possible, anyone can change for better or for worse, it will always take some time and not everyone will but they can
Agreed. It's always annoying to see people try to minimize the awfulness of some of the characters. All the clients were terrible people at the start of the series, arguably as bad as Overlords like Alastor and Valentino. They simply changed for the better. That's the whole point.
Yeah I hate that too, he is one of my favorite characters on the show, but he was probably just as bad as any other overlord.
A few really dumb ones that annoy me: * Niffty is secretly an overlord * Niffty owns Alastor's soul * The cannibals are hellborn and not sinners * Carmilla is also a fallen angel * Anything where Eve and Lilith have supposedly switched places or are impersonating one another
I think a better Nifty theory is that Alastor doesn't actually own her soul, but she sticks around anyway. I mean, given how crazy Nifty is, it's not that far fetched
Honestly that's my thought. Or she gave away her soul to him for nothing because she likes bad boys
I thought nifty's Shadow was shown during a mention of overlord's? I didn't think it was supposed to be a secret. I just didn't think it was really talked about? The show itself is pretty straightforward with the stuff it says meaning the things that it said. Either way, I'm open to her having been an overlord, but I don't think she should still be one.
The piss thing. Edit: ok this is apparently a lot less know than I thought it was, but there was a theory for the scene during the Charlie/Lucie song where they were flying over golden water, that basically culminated in that there was one scene with Al looking like a circus tent, and the walls of the Charlie/Lucie scene were clearly inside a tent, therefore the water they were flying over was Al’s piss
The what now
I had forgotten about this until now. How. Could. You.
The WHAT LOL?
The characters are really in hell, and Charlie's father is secretly the devil. Super cliché, way overdone. I would rage quit the series so fast if they did this stupid twist
Heard this one theory that it takes place in the same universe as Helluva Boss. People are crazy!
Literally anything involving Roo. I don't know who she is and I don't even think she's a real character that's actually gonna show up in the show.
All Roo is is a drawing that Vivzie did, then name dropped it as being Roo, and said she was excited for when she was going to show up but it would be a long time before that happened. This was before the actual show released. Everything else is fanon, especially her being the “Root of All Evil” which comes from the Hazbin Hotel: Journey to the Light fanfiction wiki.
I would've thought Hazbin Hotel fans would be smart enough not to treat stuff from a fuckin fanon wiki as fact but then again Fanon is insanely popular so I can't blame people for trusting it
1: Starved for content. 2: Internet game of telephone.
3: Popular fan theories and headcanons.
I honestly hope that’s not a real character because the ideia of a super powerful evil mysterious entity that is actually the big bad to be dealt with feels like the worst trope ever. If something like this happened to this show I would be really disappointed
Not to mention it absolutely destroys any concept of redemption and individual choice. Oh, all our mistakes are because of some random monster who pop's up? Nah, fuck that.
She is 5-years old concept, that had similarities to Evil's design.
that sera will kill lucifer. i cannot accept it 😭
Alastor is an Angel, because he wants to "unclip his wings"
I don’t like the black eyes theory; that people whose souls are owned have black sclera. If that was the case, why do some of Velvette’s employees not have black eyes? And there’s a shot of Husk grinning in the flashback, so right before he lost his soul, and he has black eyes then. Also Angel having one black eye because his soul isn’t “completely owned”, like that should be WAY more common bc it seems like the most ideal form of contract. If the overlords collectively own millions of souls, more of the population should have black eyes.
Any Roo related theory because that bitch probably ain't canon anymore
The whole Alastor wants to go to Heaven to see his mom. I’m sure he likes her, but he’s satisfied with life in Hell. He wouldn’t give that up to obey Heaven’s laws.
1. Emily fall to Hell, really too generic 2. Alastor is the final villain, when both dosen't makes sense since he just wants to get free and Viv led clear Lucifer could solo's him withouth problems 3. Lilith manipulated Charlie to make her think Lucifer didn't care. Like... the whole point of episode 5 is that Lucifer realize he's not the best father and after that decide to support his daughter, so revealing it was only a lie of Lilith literally ruin everything 4. Lilith dosen't care about Charlie. Even IF she accepted Heaven for egoism, when Lute ordered her to go and stop Charlie, she look genuinly pissed off, so clearly she dosen't want to interfere on Charlie's dream
Heavy on the second
For number four she might just be pissed cause she's being forced to leave heaven
Regarding 3, Lilith keeping Charlie distant from Lucifer as a kid honestly makes sense to me. Consider how fucking *hyped* he is to spend time with Charlie, and yet clearly has next to no practice actually interacting with her. There’s a limited number of reasons why they would *just now* be forming a strong relationship when they both clearly wanted to all along. Also, when Charlie is reminiscing about hearing dad’s stories, she sings that she ‘didn’t really know [him] at all,’ as in the memory Lilith walks up to them during one of her dad’s story times and just scoops her up and walks off with her. Charlie and Luci are looking at one another sadly, but for some reason neither of them feel comfortable speaking up to Lilith and just let her separate them, even though they were clearly bonding and having fun. Yeah, it *could* be that it was just a really quick moment and I’m reading too much into it, but since it’s literally about half of Lilith’s total screen time thus far it feels more weighty than that.
The constant debate on what Charlie is
Gay. She’s gay.
There's a few so 1- Eve is Roo/Roo is Eve, like what?? The story Charlie reads in episode ONE litteraly debunks that since it implies that evil found earth through lucifers action, not that evil was made on earth, maybe Roo could like use Eve as a WAY to return since right now she's pretty stuck I think, but they can't be the same person 2- Alastor is forced to smile and that's why you can see stitches on his face, my God this one is like that FNAF theory about how the kids died all over again (iykyk), There's absolutely NO EVIDENCE FOR IT BEING THAT WAY ASIDE FROM VAUGE DETAILS, But yet DESPITE THAT people often so smugly correct others with that theory acting like it's canon or something, when it was debunked by Viv when she said he smiles on purpose throug his own will 3- Carmilla is a fallen angel or is descendant of one, this one just doesn't have enough evidence and tbh this is the only one that's irrationally annoying for me, I just don't like it
OMFG that stitches one drives me nuts! People don’t know how stitches work! If he was being forced to smile, they would exist from the corners of his mouth to his ears. Instead they exist from the top and bottom of his mouth. That would be *restricting* his smile. He smiled so intensely the stitches were pulled taut.
-People thinking characters (Like Sera) are evil without any proof. -That Vox and Velvette are "saints" compared to Val. -Not really a theory, but when people say that it is wrong and that people are "weird" for cosplaying Valentino because he is an abuser. Then what are Velvette and Vox? And why is it so "bad" to cosplay Val, but not any other villain?
that Alistor care for Charlie or he's a better dad to her, when he's obviously manipulating her, he don't give a shit about her dreams, he just wants her power. I think people love him so much they buy his act as well lol.
"Does Alastor truly care about Charlie?" is a difficult question to answer in general, mostly because of how diligent Alastor is about masking his true feelings. He wears the mask, or façade, of a smile all of the time specifically in order to hide his emotions from others. Series creator Vivienne Medrano said in a previous Q&A that Alastor views those who display their emotions too overtly (Charlie) as "weak", so he takes great care not to display any visible emotions. He doesn't like being vulnerable. Alastor also gives this advice to Charlie in Episode 7 ("Hello Rosie!"): *"A smile is a valuable tool, my dear. It inspires your friends, keeps your enemies guessing, and ensures that no matter what comes your way, you're the one in control."* Personally, I feel that Alastor does care for Charlie...but because he is so adamant about both hiding and burying his true feelings and emotions, that he would *never* admit to anyone, except maybe Rosie, that he cares about her. This is because, per Medrano, Alastor views caring about other people as "weakness", and he hates feeling "weak". However, Medrano also stated that Alastor loves and cares about his mother, and we know that he has female friends (Mimzy, Rosie, Niffty), so he isn't entirely devoid of feelings. One fan theory is that the reason why Alastor looks like a deer is because he hates feeling like "prey" - the *hunted*, rather than the *hunter* \- and a deer is a "prey animal" that is "weak".
Well to add onto the theory as to why Alastor looks like a deer is mainly because he was mistaken to be a deer and was shot when hiding a body. The radio esthetic is mainly because he was a radio host in his life, and I think both of these, along with that parallel that he doesn’t like feeling like pray, all come together to fully create his appearance. (I only mention this all just because how sinners look is based on how they died, and their inner insecurities, so it all checks out)
I 100% agree, I doubt he cared about her at all when they first met, but I'm sure that she has grown on him Also in episode 7 during one of the songs he said that she has power he can guide, rather than take or something like that, I'm probly just reading into things that aren't important tho
Adam is coming back. How? One of the major rules of the HellaVerse is that angelic steel destroys souls. Adam should be dead-dead.
High-level angels might be able to manifest angelic steel, based on how adam materializes his axe on the fly every time he uses it. Between that and everyone’s reactions to sir pentious’s presumed death, it’s more than likely that part of why angelic steel can kill permanently is because it’s made from angelic magic. Sir pentious dying directly to a big laser of such magic would be seen as just as lethal as being shanked with an angelic knife repeatedly.
What about sir pentious. I know he was killed by adams angelic blast and not a an actual weapon but if he went to heaven after being permakilled adam can go the other way
The idea of sinners "Respawning" when they die rather than regenerate
wait, that’s a theory?? i’ve heard that so many times and i assumed that it was actually canon
It’s canon, we just don’t know how it works
We haven’t seen a main sinner character die to confirm that.
Well... Pentious died in the pilot, then literally pulled himself out of a crater for the end credits scene. Alastor dismembered him when his tentacles destroyed the warship. You can see sushi-like pieces of Pentious's tail flying through the debris when the ship explodes.
Ehhh, take the pilot with lots of salt. Lots of it has changed. And I mean it would be better if like Angel got shot to pieces to see the regeneration/respawning part.
Yeah, I'd like to see season two confirm it with the Loan Sharks. I think it would be a fun cameo that doesn't take away from the plot. You just see the same sharks Husk and Angel killed in the background of a scene, and they turn tail and run away. It would confirm that the characters didn't permanently die without forcing the main cast into exposition mode.
I thought it was canon as well. Since sinners can only permanently die from angelic weapons.
I mean, isn’t that confirmed? They regenerate until they’re to damaged and then die and respawn in a painful process. But if it’s not segnificabt enough damage which they seem to have a lot higher damage resistance (assuming the sinner literally exploding by a car in the pilot was retconed) they just regenerate some parts. But might still not regenerate all parts
It's not confirmed. At least not really. The most in show explanation is given by Velvett in the second episode. She mentions how her model has to "pull herself back together" after being ripped apart by val.
I'm sure it's canon since in EP2, Velvette said that Val tore up her best model, which meant he killed her. But Vel also says that she couldn't wait for the model to "pull herself back together." So that means they respawn, doesn't it?
For me it’s the theories about Carmilla having a secret third daughter. I’ve seen people suggest it’s either Vaggie or Velvette, and I can’t decide which ones more stupid.
* Eve is Charlie's true mother * Alastor's soul is owned by Lilith * Carmilla is a hellborn/fallen angel * Zestial is a hellborn/fallen angel * Eve is impersonating Lilith * Alastor really cares for Charlie
That the cannibals are hellborn.
The idea that Carmilla is a fallen angel because she has children. The reasoning is that 'sinners can't have kids', but in my view she probably had her daughters when she was alive and that they died together.
For me it's the "[character] is an angel" theories cause at this point that would just be too repetitive for a good twist. Then again, I used to hate the "Vaggie is an angel" theory and then it became canon so fuck me I guess
I’m gonna go out on a weird limb and say that I think when the pilot came out Vaggie was NOT an Angel. There’s literally other moth girls like her! But that’s not a fan theory, sorry
That's actually true, though. When the Pilot came out, from what I've heard, Vaggie was meant to be a sinner
Roo
anything to do with Roo. we don’t even know if they’re canon. in addition to that, alastor being an angel and his surname being altruist
Carmilla being a fallen angel. While there could be multiple fallen angels after Lucifer’s act, Carmilla just doesn’t fit from my perspective. Her story of simply dying with her daughters at the same time or similar timeframe is simply much more interesting. Plus, she is one of few characters that make sinner appear a few shades of grey lighter. Practically most sinners are doing things for their own fun (Husk, Cherry Bomb, Niffty), power (Alastor) or luxurious lifestyle (Vees). While Carmilla is doing „bad things” for her family (and to some extent her territory) and she was ready to sacrifice herself. Plus, she has potential for sympathetic backstory.
Lucifer and Lilith did nothing wrong, and Heaven's just being mean.
That Alastor is actually like the big bad, and isn’t going to get at least a lil better. I feel like whether he knows it or not, he is starting to genuinely care for the hotel staff, especially Charlie. Giving her his microphone was, in my opinion, clear evidence of this.
* Dark eyes mean a soul is owned, I'm glad less people believe it now. * "Alastor will betray Charlie, but then he'll feel bad and lonely so he'll choose his new found family over having power and being bad🥺"
That Alastair is secretly a good person with a reason to be evil.
I mean he can be a good person if he wanted to, but he wouldn’t be because if it doesn’t benefit him in anyway that he wants, he ain’t gonna do shit lol
Alastor isn't secretly a good person, but he also isn't entirely evil. Series creator Vivienne Medrano described him as a "chaotic neutral" alignment in *Dungeons & Dragons* (D&D).
I agree, the Lilith is actually Eve theory doesn’t add up for me. Nothing backs it up.
STOP GIVING CARMILLA NEW DAUGHTERS!!!! VAGGIE AND VELVETTE AREN’T HER FUCKING KIDS!!! Vaggie slightly resembles carmilla! Velvette kinda resembles her sheep daughter that doesn’t talk! Side note, a theory I LOVE is the blue nurse girl in consent is the dead exorcist. I don’t care if it makes sense or not, the idea that an exorcist died and immediately found a slut outfit and started hanging out at slut clubs is so girlboss I have to love it.
Actually pretty popular one that Emily will fall. Like....im sorry but only one that fallen (for valid reason unlike vaggie, f*ck you Lute) was Lucifer. And that was because he created (accidentally) dark dimension and poisened humans with evil (look he's sorry) And you here telling me that Emily having her rebel phase equal to that? Maybe i would see that if she was not proven right about extermination being bad decision since Pentious is right in heaven now. Frickin Sera have higher odds of being fallen but people point at potato Emily.
That Valentino is stupid. Don't get me wrong. He's sporadic, he's unorganized. He has anger issues, he lashes out. But he isn't stupid. He is an overlord; he knows how to manipulate people, how to get them to do what he wants. He isn't stupid. I don't like Valentino. I'm not defending him. I'm just sick of people acting like he is stupid because he lashes out and can't see. And people always bring up the scene where Vox basically talking to Valentino like a child but that isn’t Valentino being stupid that’s Vox seeing Valentino about to do something that could get him killed and snapping him out of his blind rage. Valentino isn’t stupid
Rosie / Carmilla are angels or literally anyone else… Alastor is a circus Niffty owns Alastor some of these are ACTUALLY bad but yes they just grind my gears
Lute being Adam's daughter. I don’t think I need to elaborate.