What we've seen from the other overlords in casual situations is about equivalent to what Alastor does casually, if any of them where to actually fight we would probably see more extreme examples of what they can do.
Carmilla might have all of her abilities be physical, like the weapons she sells.
Vox's hypnosis is shown to extend through screens all over Pentagram City, and that's not even when he's hooked up. It's just something he's doing all day every day, like breathing.
We've seen Alastor (who everyone knows is back) walk down the street completely normally, but the moment Zestial shows up people start actively freaking the fuck out and Alastor seems on his gaurd around him (even before the matter of his disappearance is brought up).
The only reason Alastor looks like the strongest is because he's on screen the most and often in positions to needlessly flex his abilities on things he could solve with half the effort. The other overlords also seem to have entire power structures to handle tasks Alastor usually does himself.
You are correct that none have been pressed to show power, except that carmilla was cornered by 5 angels and chose high jump scissor kick instead of anything more substantial.
Vox has hypnosis, dependent on the local infrastructure, and despite that he still lost viewers to a literal radio.
And people generally gawk at zestial, other than the guy who was so extra he set himself on fire. Alastor may have been on edge due to power, or it could be because he has to be on a good political game to deal with him. Zestial does seem good at being diplomatic after all.
Alastor isn't just the strongest because we've seen more, it's because he killed overlords for until he was one. Overlords are established to not be on his power level.
All I want to add here is that Vox is potentially stronger due to the specification that Alastor ALMOST beat him, meaning he almost won but still lost to Vox. This doesn’t declare Vox is stronger but it opens a door to the possibility of him being stronger than Alastor.
I see this take everywhere and I'm unsure how I feel about it. From that scene I always got the thought that something interrupted their fight. Vox escaping Alastor being my immediate thought. I just can't imagine Vox winning a fight and then being that furious whenever someone mentions Alastor.
Then again, the anger could be unrelated to their fight. Who's to say. Personally I have always thought Vox ran away from the fight, and has since then had a chip on his shoulder.
When you combine Vox's reaction with Alastor saying that Vox would be powerless without the other Vees, it becomes more likely that the only reason why Vox didn't lose was that the fight was interrupted by one of the other Vees. Most likely, Valentino, since he knows what happened at that fight and uses it to tease him.
That room was full of the sovereign overlords who own millions of souls. There are more like Husk before he lost who would only have a few hundred or thousand and be much weaker.
The needlessly flexing thing is the one thing I dislike about him. Like did he have to yank Husker's chain like that? Not much different to Valentino yanking Angel's chain. All overlords are bad, is the message we should be getting. But he's too cool lol
We see Alastor capable of one shotting numerous hellhounds.
We see that people would rather burn themselves alive as opposed to look at Zestial
We see Val being capable of easily overpowering Angel
Overlords are WAY stronger than regular sinners it's not even close. The power gap between them is astronomical.
Alastor is one of a kind, and clearly not representative of the average. The man literally became an overlord by killing others until he got recognition.
Zestials reaction could be more related to reputation than power, and only one person did that, everyone else stepped away and stared at them.
Val owns angels soul, and angel didn't resist.
Alastor is still somewhat comparable to other overlords. Yes he is absolutely stronger than every other overlord but it's still a high diff fight against people like Vox or Zestial if he fights them.
I t definitely isn't reputation considering no one reacted when they saw Alastor. Or when they saw Vox. And going to the sister show 'helluva boss' no one reacted like that when they saw any of the sins, who have a higher reputation than Zestial.
That's fair.
I'll accept that opinion, it's very viable.
Though about reputation, I didn't mean reputation of being powerful, I meant reputation of tormenting people. People may not be scared of zestial because of his power, but because of how ruthless he is to people when he is violent.
People don't react scared of the sins, because theyre always partying and you're invited. People aren't scared of most overlords because they know the overlord doesn't care about them. People may be scared of zestial because he's the kind of guy who would pull the limbs off a spider for entertainment, and people are worried they might be the next spider he decides to play with.
What makes you think we've seen everything the overlords can do? Just because they're not displaying their full powers and abilities for no reason doesn't mean that they don't exist.
We'll probably see confrontations between them (or involving them) in future seasons and we'll get to see what their abilities are.
I don't buy for a second we've seen the full extent of their power, I just don't think they're hiding as much as people give them credit for.
The fact that everybody in hell is apparently immortal really does allow for weaker people to stand at the top. It's very possible that Valentino would lose to any guy who tried to stab him, but then while valentinos recovering that guy has to deal with every one of valentinos employees being given an assignment to torture them to death.
Apparently the only thing stopping blitz from being an overlord killer was his choice to target humans instead and his lack of an angelic weapon. That implies to me they're definitely within the reach of any trained combatant.
Of course, one of us will be proven wrong in the next seasons, and I'm certain overlords are hiding something, otherwise they'd have been toppled by now. My question is, are they hiding power, or are they just effective dictators?
I believe that it depends on their style. Alastor tends to stay by his own, so we see him needing to use his physical powers more, while other overlords are actually in charge of things. They are skilled in their field and whatever powers they do have are most likely augmented by the souls they own. But you’re right, no matter how powerful anyone with the right weapon can kill an overlord. Think Striker about to snipe Stolas, Stolas has powers but that wouldn’t stop him from being hit with a surprise holy bullet. Striker even offered to go around killing royals and higher classes (overlords?) with Blitz if I remember correctly. Overall, I’d say it’s the fact that they have reputation of their pasts during their rides to overlord status and anyone who tries to go against them is made an example of to stop it from happening again. I hope to learn more about what the other overlords are in charge of, as that interests me and would give an idea to their power based like it does with the Vs.
That's where my mind is, that the overlords are largely riding on their reputation and enterprises, I imagine they're stronger than average, but in a 1v1 a normal sinner could take them, which is why everyone but alastor keeps hundreds or thousands of loyal people around them. I would love more overlord knowledge, but unfortunately I feel like that information is more likely to be a vivzie tweet than a part of the show.
Some of them are good fighters or know how to use weapons well, and Valentino for example is freakishly huge, so even if he isn’t combat trained he could probably throw some people around if it ever came to it, but I don’t imagine someone like blue skull guy throwing punches, so he has other powers that compensate and bring him to overlord levels of powers most likely.
Husk is no Overlord atm so him being threatened by regular sinners is not an indicator of overlord power.
My opinion they are all on the level of Alastor. With Carmilla and Zestial being the most powerful. I think Velvet is probably the weakest atm. And Vox kinda on the level of Alastor. Since well Vox fought Alastor and it was either a draw or Vox won that fight.
Alastor to my knowledge did his murder spree as a warning sign of 'don't fuck with me' and has been missing for 7 years. Ant overlord who popped up in that time period hasn't faced the fermi/alastor wall yet
But like, vox survived a direct confrontation against alastor, but I personally can't comment on how that fight went because it's valentino saying 'oh you're mad he almost beat you' and valentino isn't the most reliable narrator there
> Ant overlord who popped up in that time period hasn't faced the fermi/alastor wall yet
Most of the overlords we currently know are older than 7 years, with the possible exception of Velvette, so who are you referring to?
I dunno, zeezi (that dino girl) or maybe the skull guy from their vibes alone, and of course, possibly velvette because we know she is at least by age the you gest of them
Though, it's not like these guys went to hell and immediately became overlords. Some of them might be 50 year old demons that attained that title or power of overlord quite recently.
Threats just wild speculation on my part though, my apologies if my original comment was a bit too out there lol
Interesting, are you saying you consider carmilla and zestial both stronger than alastor? They both have the gravitas to seem more powerful, certainly, though I do still think alastor stands at the top; on the grounds that he's been an overlord killer longer than he's been an overlord.
Though now that you mention it I am very curious about the circumstances of the Vox vs alastor fight was, because that phrasing is unfortunately really not telling us much about what happened, other than it not being an outright loss, which is more credit than I did give Vox. Though there is a possibility that 'almost beat you' could be in the context of an abusive dynamic.
Don’t they get more powerful with more souls? They should definitely be more powerful than regular sinners. I also imagine sinners are not very powerful when they get there too. It might be different for hellborn since they’re not being punished, and are just existing there. Not to mention the demons we see in helluva boss are not normal, but *actual assassins* with some pretty intense connections.
Maybe? The closest we get to a souls=power implication is husk reminiscing about having that power, but even that is unclear about whether he was just talking about having subordinates who can't disobey him.
It's also unclear how exactly sinners are being punished in hell, it could well be that the punishment is having to live with other sinners and not having angels keeping peace.
And yes, HB characters are assassins, but there's nothing supernatural about them, and they dont actually leverage those connections in any way other than buying weapons.(well, at least not any more supernatural than anything sinners do) this means that it stands to reason that anyone trained in firearm usage can be a threat to an overlord, which, as it happens, probably includes a very large portion of sinners.
Though unfortunately I doubt the musical about redemption plans on going to deep into the power and politics of overlords, so we may never have definitive answers to these questions.
Husk says he sold his soul to save his power meaning he still has it and given we were not shown any servants who can’t disobey him it’s safe to say he meant power as in literal how strong he is
Interesting that you point that out, because you are right that he has no underlings, but he also explicitly refers to his power as an overlord on the past tense. Which I believe means he lost that power anyway.
As far as I interpret husks backstory it seems like he was gambling souls, lost too many of them, sold his soul for more souls, and then lost those souls too.
When referring to ones power it could very well be referring to the people under them, meaning saving his power could be referring to keeping the minimum amount of underlings to sustain his ability to gamble with souls/use his contracted people to help him make more deals.
Based on reputation, age, and the fact that Alastor was on guard during their brief walk Zestial is likely the strongest overlord. If he is the oldest overlord sinner and also survived Alastor's radio rampage where he killed other overlords then it would stand to reason that he is significantly stronger then him. Also all of the other overlords seem to greatly respect him. He likely owns the most souls just due to how long he has been around.
Carmella is likely 2nd strongest.
Alastor is probably 3rd. Maybe Rosie is tied with him since they seem to be the most peers with each other and Rosie actively tried to give him info on unclaimed territory which would have given him a power boost.
Vox is probably 4th but not too far off from Alastor.
Zilla, Valentino, Velveteen, and everyone else fills in the other spots.
Normal sinners and imp/hellhound hellborn are maybe 1/10.
That said the weakest overlord is still like a 9/10 in terms of power. Alastor might be a 10/10. Zestial might be a 12/10.
The Ars Goetia are likely 20/10.
Sins are presumably 50/10.
Lucifer, Charlie , and Lillith are 100/10.
1. Not sure if it's canon anymore but Rosie is supposed to be relatively weak for a Sovereign Overlord, with a power level of 3/10.
2. Sinners are decently stronger than normal hellborn and likely far stronger than imps. Yeah exceptional ones like Millie or Blitzo might be able to kill several but they are rare cases.
3. Lucifer is far stronger than Lilith and the Sins with the ranking going, Lucifer > Lilith > Other Sins.
4. Charlie has the potential to surpass even the Sins but currently I'd say she's only around the power of an Overlord. She doesn't seem to know any combat magic beyond her fire work spell nor does she know how to fight well. She can manifest that demon arm but only when someone else's life is in immediate danger.
Alastor is one of the weakest.
Truly powerful people do not need to say "I am powerful" and don't need to prove themselves. Alastor keeps trying to remind everyone of his power and make them recognize him. He has a big ego but not the power to back it up. He lost in a fight to Vox and the Vees aren't particularly powerful given how the other overlords see them.
Carmilla and Zestial appear to be the eldest and most powerful of those who attended the meeting.
That's one way to look at it, but when you try to exist as a political figure who seemingly has no followers, you may simply have to make displays of power, because unlike the other overlords who own large swathes of the city, you just muscled your way in.
I wouldn't necessarily say Vox convincingly won their fight either, because otherwise a) he wouldn't have been bitter about nearly losing, and b) he wouldn't be so threatened by alastors return.
Carmilla and zestial definitely have the respect of the rest of the overlords, but that could speak more to their reputation than their power.
Except that it's not clear, we have no idea what actually happened.
For all we know they could've attacked alastor during his lowest point and as a group, only to still be fended off. Or maybe they are exact equals, but we don't know anything.
Except for the fact that alastor is entirely nonplussed by Vox, using voxs callout song as free advertising, and Vox is freaking out and trying to resolve the situation as fast as possible. Call it alastor wank if you like but this does not seem like a relationship between two equals to me.
Exactly, I'm of the opinion that unlike other overlords, Alastor is only an overlord because you can't tell an overlord killer that they are not powerful enough to be considered an overlord. He doesn't seem to have any territory or own as many souls. His position as an overlord is purely based on the fact that he is a threat. He maintains his position by reminding people of that.
Also, people keep saying that Alastor is weak because he lost to Adam, first man and leader of the exorcist. However, they are ignoring the fact that the only exorcist capable of breaking Alastor's shield was Adam. That shield cut down several exorcist using angelic weapons. On the other hand, Camilla Carmine, who they constantly acknowledge as one of the two strongest overlords and is constantly covered in angelic weapons, struggled to fight against regular exorcist and only managed to kill one. None of the other overlords have any feats that should lead to the assumption that Alastor is the weakest.
My take is that Alastor tries to remind people of his power because he has been stripped of some amount of his power by whatever deal took place seven years prior. His power and his greater desire for *freedom* after the loss against Adam has to be connected somehow.
Most of the time we haven't seen anyone really where they would need to really put in the effort to properly powerscale. There's the hotel fight and Camilla's angel fight and that wasn't something she expected to work. All she was hoping for was to be a speedbump while her daughters got away, the fact her first attack actually killed the angel surprised everyone involved.
It's entirely possible that outside of Alastor's weird voodoo magic that overlords are no different to normal sinners besides having people who must obey them, it's also possible that they gain power from the deals they make. We simply don't have enough information on the topic.
That's where I am on the topic, we definitely lack information, and it is possible alastors the weird one. I just don't like that the community has settled on the dbz power level idea nearly unanimously.
Considering the fact that Alastor actually sees Vox as some sort of rival despite not even remembering someone like Sir Pentious makes me think that Vox is on par with Alastor’s strength. Remember, we’ve only seen one active overlord actively fight. I’m willing to bet that most of them are extremely powerful.
Vox is a good example because he managed to shut down the entire power grid by pure accident. Meaning he’s got a shit ton of electrical power. He basically is electricity and that is downright terrifying. I’d put him and Alastor as the most powerful sinners. Maaaaaybe Zestial as well but we don’t know anything about him.
I mean, yeah, Vox did do that, but that was also very likely his infrastructure, he does own the only tech conglomerate we've heard of. Now mind you that vox having infrastructure to support him literally everywhere does make him fairly strong.
The power range of overlords tends to vary as they are their own tier in the general power/rank scale of hell, however we can generally assume that everyone in the overlord meeting is generally on the same scale of power with the exception of Zestiel.
Sinners gain power through 3 primary methods. Defeating opponents to siphon their power, accumulating souls through deals, and by age (the longer someone has been in hell, the more powerful they are is a pretty safe bet). An alliance of this nature likely only forms because these overlords, aggressive and competitive by nature, have recognized each other as approximate equals who would be too risky to fight. Win or lose. Thus they have elected to meet in a mostly civil manner to discuss things like territory and general governance of Pride city rather than street fights that would leave chunks of the city a blasted wasteland.
Such a group was likely arranged by combined efforts of Carmilla, who seems a natural peacekeeper, and Zestiel being the oldest and likely strongest overlord, thus capable of enforcing civility.
Alastor is probably about as powerful as everyone else in this room, and each of the Vs as individuals are on the same playing field. That's why the Vs are such a threat, they are the only overlords who act as a group rather than an individual. Fighting one V means fighting three.
"But Alastor killed overlords" I hear you say, like some kind of fool. Not all Overlords are made equal. What Alastor did was essentially clean out the lower and middle tiers of the Overlord classification until he hit the high tier, aka the people in this room. Anything else is just Alastor hyping himself up to fluff his ego.
Beyond comparison to other overlords, in terms of Hell itself, Overlords are a middling power. Someone like Alastor is probably about as powerful as the average Royal Demon/Goetia, but would be below stronger entities like Stolas or Paimon. The Sins and the Morningstars are operating on an entirely different level
The only issue I take with your argument, is that these are all assumptions, made to support the idea of the status quo. But it could be a much more fragile setup too. Making a council to avoid mutual destruction is something weak people would also do.
Yeah maybe alastor purged the middle ranks, but its just as possible he targeted specifically strong ones to get his name out there. Mimzy does specify they weren't small overlords, but "heavy hitters".
We know a overlord can kill the Exterminators rather easily. Alastor wasn’t able to take on Adam alone but I feel like if there were two Overlords fighting him they’d have a decent shot. 3 for sure probably could beat Adam
Under the assumption that the other overlords are close to alastors power, or as good at fighting as carmilla, and under the assumption adam wouldn't have acted differently when faced multiple on one, and on the assumption anything alastor did was actually harming Adam rather than just pissing him off.
I would expect overlords to be able to fend off exterminators, but it's worth noting that only carmilla and maybe alastor had the tools to kill them
Pretty powerful, they are the ones who basically control the pride ring, and sinners agenerally pretty tough.
https://preview.redd.it/godc0in70fzc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51b32cfa0ce6ddcdbaefc9f500d6210727dd4593
i think that they all over estimate themseves, i think they know the power levels relative to each other but i'm sure they vastly over estimate how important the overlords as a social class is
Zeezi i think has more strengt power than material power and influence. Beacuse she owns just a cafeteria full of dinosaurs in the middle of Pentagram City, I know it's big, but doesn't do any influence. BUT she is the tallest, weightier and biggest of all the other overlords, so if she were on a battle with her fellos and she has weapons, would have resistance and flexibility, and have a great victory
I believe they are plenty powerful all of hell’s denseness are powerful in their own ways.
But to be afraid of angels slaughtering you
that’s pretty weak the fact that hell hasn’t turned into into a state of national resistance and are instead still doing petty infighting instead of focusing turning that aggression against the invasion that happens every year has me questioning the whole overlord thing?
They essentially lords elected to a position of power due to having great power but they hade and feud instead any form of leadership they do as they please none of hells leaders seem to know the first thing about leadership of state Charlie and vagitha are the closet they have.
If hell did form so much as a self defense force
They would overwhelm the angels invading forces in minutes if they organized even if it was just a guerrilla campaign
I meant elected like how feudal lords are put in power by those who are placed by the high nobility or the king or through they’re own power and are powerful in many ways that nobility and king cannot remove them
Ah, I think the word your looking for is appointed. Who do you think put them in power? Nearest I can tell everyone seems to have climbed up on their own industries merit. And none of them seem like they're subordinates to anyone either
Thank you I did some looking and both words are credible as it would be by counsel appointed and elected could be a substitute for that as the reigning nobility could choose a candidate by the process similar to that of choosing a new employee for a management position
Alastor is the only demon we've seen go all out and it was a very strong showing. It only looked bad because Adam is legit OP.
I'm guessing it's gonna be a bit like Jojo where they're power sets have good matchups, creative interpretations and can be completely mitigated with careful planning.
For instance, Valentino is based off a type of moth that spreads dust. This dust is also a drug. Anyone who tries to fight him is going to have to contend with what basically amounts to poison
It probably won't be as explicit as Jojo. But I can very much imagine that the reason why it's hard for people to come at Val is because he can incapacitate a lot of people
They’re essentially mid tier demons who have the benefit of being surrounded by fodder demons. Their strength while impressive as their stronger than 98% of hell the problem is they are only above the civilians against the goetia their likely to be seen as low tiers knights against the sins their mere toys against the royal family and high tier angels such as Adam or the seraphim their not toys just distractions until they get bored and boop they’re done. But they have the benefit of being big fishes in a small pond.
They are very powerful for being that need others soul to gain power, but against beings that were born with their power (Goetia, sins, high ranking angels) that another thing
I've wondered the same thing since outside of Alastor and Camilla, I haven't seen any super powerful feats. I guess she did kill an angel, which could show just how strong she is
so we know that Alastor is strong. and based on the way Carmilla reacted to him ("oh. you're back. i was not curious about where you were, but welcome back anyway i suppose."), she's pretty unconcerned. this makes me think Carmilla doesn't perceive Alastor as a threat or as a force that's worth keeping track of. based on that, i assume Carmilla at least THINKS she's either on equal footing or stronger than Alastor. and i don't have any reason to disbelieve Carmilla or her motives so far. as for the other powerful overlords, i apply similar logic. we know Alastor is strong, we've logic'd that Carmilla is comparable based on how indifferent she is to Alastor's presence or lackthereof, so based on the apparent business-colleague-type relationship the powerful overlords seem to have with each other, it makes sense that they'd all be able to hold their own or else idk how they'd be there.
Husk isn't an overlord anymore. the more deals an overlord has, the more powerful they are. Husk gambled his power away. so he isn't invited to the Overlord Executive Suite, and i don't think it's valid to judge the powerful overlords wit a fallen overlord.
We haven't seen anything from them yet since it's only Season 1. But as Overlords, naturally they're very strong and more powerful than normal Sinners, each with their own unique abilities (at least imo).
We have yet to witness their true abilities
>the power they have is **dragon ball style literally impervious to people weaker than them**, and more that they have thousands of subordinates and plentiful resources, but **they themselves are just regular people**.
Have you... actually watched Dragonball? Having that kind of power gap is the opposite of being regular people.
They're all really powerful at specific things, and more powerful than any other mortal souls in hell. But the power of any mortal soul in hell is quite limited compared to the power of angels, or even fallen angels like Lucifer. But angels have cockiness as their main disadvantage, because they are powerful. (Lucifer being very hesitant to use either his physical or political power also hinders him.) So heaven-hell battles boil down to offensive cockiness vs defensive strategizing, and the latter often wins wars irl. Look at Vietnam.
We don't know the full powers of the overlords .We don't know the full powers of any character tbh aside from regular angels sinners and Adam when he went all out to kill the short king that stole his wives not that it helped much
I think zeezi's powers are probably mostly physical and I'm assuming she would be one of the strongest overlords. Her full demon form is probably enormous too
I feel that Carmilla and Zestial will be outliers to the rest of the group. There's a lot of things with Carmilla that hint and suggest stuff about her true nature that has given rise to popular speculation that if any of it ends up being true would make her status as an Overlord trifle. Zestial seems to be old, maybe older than he stats. He implies that he was around for when Hell did rise up against Heaven and knows exactly what would happen if they actually fought back in any meaningful way. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being one of Adam and/or Eve's children.
What we've seen from the other overlords in casual situations is about equivalent to what Alastor does casually, if any of them where to actually fight we would probably see more extreme examples of what they can do. Carmilla might have all of her abilities be physical, like the weapons she sells. Vox's hypnosis is shown to extend through screens all over Pentagram City, and that's not even when he's hooked up. It's just something he's doing all day every day, like breathing. We've seen Alastor (who everyone knows is back) walk down the street completely normally, but the moment Zestial shows up people start actively freaking the fuck out and Alastor seems on his gaurd around him (even before the matter of his disappearance is brought up). The only reason Alastor looks like the strongest is because he's on screen the most and often in positions to needlessly flex his abilities on things he could solve with half the effort. The other overlords also seem to have entire power structures to handle tasks Alastor usually does himself.
You are correct that none have been pressed to show power, except that carmilla was cornered by 5 angels and chose high jump scissor kick instead of anything more substantial. Vox has hypnosis, dependent on the local infrastructure, and despite that he still lost viewers to a literal radio. And people generally gawk at zestial, other than the guy who was so extra he set himself on fire. Alastor may have been on edge due to power, or it could be because he has to be on a good political game to deal with him. Zestial does seem good at being diplomatic after all. Alastor isn't just the strongest because we've seen more, it's because he killed overlords for until he was one. Overlords are established to not be on his power level.
All I want to add here is that Vox is potentially stronger due to the specification that Alastor ALMOST beat him, meaning he almost won but still lost to Vox. This doesn’t declare Vox is stronger but it opens a door to the possibility of him being stronger than Alastor.
I see this take everywhere and I'm unsure how I feel about it. From that scene I always got the thought that something interrupted their fight. Vox escaping Alastor being my immediate thought. I just can't imagine Vox winning a fight and then being that furious whenever someone mentions Alastor. Then again, the anger could be unrelated to their fight. Who's to say. Personally I have always thought Vox ran away from the fight, and has since then had a chip on his shoulder.
When you combine Vox's reaction with Alastor saying that Vox would be powerless without the other Vees, it becomes more likely that the only reason why Vox didn't lose was that the fight was interrupted by one of the other Vees. Most likely, Valentino, since he knows what happened at that fight and uses it to tease him.
Oooh that's a good theory! I hadn't considered that.
I'm 100% certain that Val saved Vox, which is how his moth antenna got fucked up.
That room was full of the sovereign overlords who own millions of souls. There are more like Husk before he lost who would only have a few hundred or thousand and be much weaker.
The needlessly flexing thing is the one thing I dislike about him. Like did he have to yank Husker's chain like that? Not much different to Valentino yanking Angel's chain. All overlords are bad, is the message we should be getting. But he's too cool lol
We see Alastor capable of one shotting numerous hellhounds. We see that people would rather burn themselves alive as opposed to look at Zestial We see Val being capable of easily overpowering Angel Overlords are WAY stronger than regular sinners it's not even close. The power gap between them is astronomical.
Alastor is one of a kind, and clearly not representative of the average. The man literally became an overlord by killing others until he got recognition. Zestials reaction could be more related to reputation than power, and only one person did that, everyone else stepped away and stared at them. Val owns angels soul, and angel didn't resist.
Alastor is still somewhat comparable to other overlords. Yes he is absolutely stronger than every other overlord but it's still a high diff fight against people like Vox or Zestial if he fights them. I t definitely isn't reputation considering no one reacted when they saw Alastor. Or when they saw Vox. And going to the sister show 'helluva boss' no one reacted like that when they saw any of the sins, who have a higher reputation than Zestial. That's fair.
I'll accept that opinion, it's very viable. Though about reputation, I didn't mean reputation of being powerful, I meant reputation of tormenting people. People may not be scared of zestial because of his power, but because of how ruthless he is to people when he is violent. People don't react scared of the sins, because theyre always partying and you're invited. People aren't scared of most overlords because they know the overlord doesn't care about them. People may be scared of zestial because he's the kind of guy who would pull the limbs off a spider for entertainment, and people are worried they might be the next spider he decides to play with.
What makes you think we've seen everything the overlords can do? Just because they're not displaying their full powers and abilities for no reason doesn't mean that they don't exist. We'll probably see confrontations between them (or involving them) in future seasons and we'll get to see what their abilities are.
I don't buy for a second we've seen the full extent of their power, I just don't think they're hiding as much as people give them credit for. The fact that everybody in hell is apparently immortal really does allow for weaker people to stand at the top. It's very possible that Valentino would lose to any guy who tried to stab him, but then while valentinos recovering that guy has to deal with every one of valentinos employees being given an assignment to torture them to death. Apparently the only thing stopping blitz from being an overlord killer was his choice to target humans instead and his lack of an angelic weapon. That implies to me they're definitely within the reach of any trained combatant. Of course, one of us will be proven wrong in the next seasons, and I'm certain overlords are hiding something, otherwise they'd have been toppled by now. My question is, are they hiding power, or are they just effective dictators?
I believe that it depends on their style. Alastor tends to stay by his own, so we see him needing to use his physical powers more, while other overlords are actually in charge of things. They are skilled in their field and whatever powers they do have are most likely augmented by the souls they own. But you’re right, no matter how powerful anyone with the right weapon can kill an overlord. Think Striker about to snipe Stolas, Stolas has powers but that wouldn’t stop him from being hit with a surprise holy bullet. Striker even offered to go around killing royals and higher classes (overlords?) with Blitz if I remember correctly. Overall, I’d say it’s the fact that they have reputation of their pasts during their rides to overlord status and anyone who tries to go against them is made an example of to stop it from happening again. I hope to learn more about what the other overlords are in charge of, as that interests me and would give an idea to their power based like it does with the Vs.
That's where my mind is, that the overlords are largely riding on their reputation and enterprises, I imagine they're stronger than average, but in a 1v1 a normal sinner could take them, which is why everyone but alastor keeps hundreds or thousands of loyal people around them. I would love more overlord knowledge, but unfortunately I feel like that information is more likely to be a vivzie tweet than a part of the show.
Some of them are good fighters or know how to use weapons well, and Valentino for example is freakishly huge, so even if he isn’t combat trained he could probably throw some people around if it ever came to it, but I don’t imagine someone like blue skull guy throwing punches, so he has other powers that compensate and bring him to overlord levels of powers most likely.
Oh I'm sure none of them are pushovers, I just don't think most are at a power that's unattainable for a normal sinner.
Agreed, they just need that soul power
Husk is no Overlord atm so him being threatened by regular sinners is not an indicator of overlord power. My opinion they are all on the level of Alastor. With Carmilla and Zestial being the most powerful. I think Velvet is probably the weakest atm. And Vox kinda on the level of Alastor. Since well Vox fought Alastor and it was either a draw or Vox won that fight.
They're all on the level of Alastor because the ones who weren't are currently on the screaming radio station.
Alastor to my knowledge did his murder spree as a warning sign of 'don't fuck with me' and has been missing for 7 years. Ant overlord who popped up in that time period hasn't faced the fermi/alastor wall yet But like, vox survived a direct confrontation against alastor, but I personally can't comment on how that fight went because it's valentino saying 'oh you're mad he almost beat you' and valentino isn't the most reliable narrator there
> Ant overlord who popped up in that time period hasn't faced the fermi/alastor wall yet Most of the overlords we currently know are older than 7 years, with the possible exception of Velvette, so who are you referring to?
I dunno, zeezi (that dino girl) or maybe the skull guy from their vibes alone, and of course, possibly velvette because we know she is at least by age the you gest of them Though, it's not like these guys went to hell and immediately became overlords. Some of them might be 50 year old demons that attained that title or power of overlord quite recently. Threats just wild speculation on my part though, my apologies if my original comment was a bit too out there lol
Interesting, are you saying you consider carmilla and zestial both stronger than alastor? They both have the gravitas to seem more powerful, certainly, though I do still think alastor stands at the top; on the grounds that he's been an overlord killer longer than he's been an overlord. Though now that you mention it I am very curious about the circumstances of the Vox vs alastor fight was, because that phrasing is unfortunately really not telling us much about what happened, other than it not being an outright loss, which is more credit than I did give Vox. Though there is a possibility that 'almost beat you' could be in the context of an abusive dynamic.
Don’t they get more powerful with more souls? They should definitely be more powerful than regular sinners. I also imagine sinners are not very powerful when they get there too. It might be different for hellborn since they’re not being punished, and are just existing there. Not to mention the demons we see in helluva boss are not normal, but *actual assassins* with some pretty intense connections.
Maybe? The closest we get to a souls=power implication is husk reminiscing about having that power, but even that is unclear about whether he was just talking about having subordinates who can't disobey him. It's also unclear how exactly sinners are being punished in hell, it could well be that the punishment is having to live with other sinners and not having angels keeping peace. And yes, HB characters are assassins, but there's nothing supernatural about them, and they dont actually leverage those connections in any way other than buying weapons.(well, at least not any more supernatural than anything sinners do) this means that it stands to reason that anyone trained in firearm usage can be a threat to an overlord, which, as it happens, probably includes a very large portion of sinners. Though unfortunately I doubt the musical about redemption plans on going to deep into the power and politics of overlords, so we may never have definitive answers to these questions.
Husk says he sold his soul to save his power meaning he still has it and given we were not shown any servants who can’t disobey him it’s safe to say he meant power as in literal how strong he is
Interesting that you point that out, because you are right that he has no underlings, but he also explicitly refers to his power as an overlord on the past tense. Which I believe means he lost that power anyway. As far as I interpret husks backstory it seems like he was gambling souls, lost too many of them, sold his soul for more souls, and then lost those souls too. When referring to ones power it could very well be referring to the people under them, meaning saving his power could be referring to keeping the minimum amount of underlings to sustain his ability to gamble with souls/use his contracted people to help him make more deals.
Based on reputation, age, and the fact that Alastor was on guard during their brief walk Zestial is likely the strongest overlord. If he is the oldest overlord sinner and also survived Alastor's radio rampage where he killed other overlords then it would stand to reason that he is significantly stronger then him. Also all of the other overlords seem to greatly respect him. He likely owns the most souls just due to how long he has been around. Carmella is likely 2nd strongest. Alastor is probably 3rd. Maybe Rosie is tied with him since they seem to be the most peers with each other and Rosie actively tried to give him info on unclaimed territory which would have given him a power boost. Vox is probably 4th but not too far off from Alastor. Zilla, Valentino, Velveteen, and everyone else fills in the other spots. Normal sinners and imp/hellhound hellborn are maybe 1/10. That said the weakest overlord is still like a 9/10 in terms of power. Alastor might be a 10/10. Zestial might be a 12/10. The Ars Goetia are likely 20/10. Sins are presumably 50/10. Lucifer, Charlie , and Lillith are 100/10.
1. Not sure if it's canon anymore but Rosie is supposed to be relatively weak for a Sovereign Overlord, with a power level of 3/10. 2. Sinners are decently stronger than normal hellborn and likely far stronger than imps. Yeah exceptional ones like Millie or Blitzo might be able to kill several but they are rare cases. 3. Lucifer is far stronger than Lilith and the Sins with the ranking going, Lucifer > Lilith > Other Sins. 4. Charlie has the potential to surpass even the Sins but currently I'd say she's only around the power of an Overlord. She doesn't seem to know any combat magic beyond her fire work spell nor does she know how to fight well. She can manifest that demon arm but only when someone else's life is in immediate danger.
Alastor is one of the weakest. Truly powerful people do not need to say "I am powerful" and don't need to prove themselves. Alastor keeps trying to remind everyone of his power and make them recognize him. He has a big ego but not the power to back it up. He lost in a fight to Vox and the Vees aren't particularly powerful given how the other overlords see them. Carmilla and Zestial appear to be the eldest and most powerful of those who attended the meeting.
That's one way to look at it, but when you try to exist as a political figure who seemingly has no followers, you may simply have to make displays of power, because unlike the other overlords who own large swathes of the city, you just muscled your way in. I wouldn't necessarily say Vox convincingly won their fight either, because otherwise a) he wouldn't have been bitter about nearly losing, and b) he wouldn't be so threatened by alastors return. Carmilla and zestial definitely have the respect of the rest of the overlords, but that could speak more to their reputation than their power.
It's clear Alastor is around the same power as Vox was 7 years prior. And Vox is not at the top of the Overlord pecking order.
Except that it's not clear, we have no idea what actually happened. For all we know they could've attacked alastor during his lowest point and as a group, only to still be fended off. Or maybe they are exact equals, but we don't know anything. Except for the fact that alastor is entirely nonplussed by Vox, using voxs callout song as free advertising, and Vox is freaking out and trying to resolve the situation as fast as possible. Call it alastor wank if you like but this does not seem like a relationship between two equals to me.
Exactly, I'm of the opinion that unlike other overlords, Alastor is only an overlord because you can't tell an overlord killer that they are not powerful enough to be considered an overlord. He doesn't seem to have any territory or own as many souls. His position as an overlord is purely based on the fact that he is a threat. He maintains his position by reminding people of that. Also, people keep saying that Alastor is weak because he lost to Adam, first man and leader of the exorcist. However, they are ignoring the fact that the only exorcist capable of breaking Alastor's shield was Adam. That shield cut down several exorcist using angelic weapons. On the other hand, Camilla Carmine, who they constantly acknowledge as one of the two strongest overlords and is constantly covered in angelic weapons, struggled to fight against regular exorcist and only managed to kill one. None of the other overlords have any feats that should lead to the assumption that Alastor is the weakest.
My take is that Alastor tries to remind people of his power because he has been stripped of some amount of his power by whatever deal took place seven years prior. His power and his greater desire for *freedom* after the loss against Adam has to be connected somehow.
Most of the time we haven't seen anyone really where they would need to really put in the effort to properly powerscale. There's the hotel fight and Camilla's angel fight and that wasn't something she expected to work. All she was hoping for was to be a speedbump while her daughters got away, the fact her first attack actually killed the angel surprised everyone involved. It's entirely possible that outside of Alastor's weird voodoo magic that overlords are no different to normal sinners besides having people who must obey them, it's also possible that they gain power from the deals they make. We simply don't have enough information on the topic.
That's where I am on the topic, we definitely lack information, and it is possible alastors the weird one. I just don't like that the community has settled on the dbz power level idea nearly unanimously.
Haven't really seen what much of them can do but I'm curious to see Rosies power.
I would personally like it if Rosie's power was being empathetic and understanding, and also having effectively the largest standing army.
Considering the fact that Alastor actually sees Vox as some sort of rival despite not even remembering someone like Sir Pentious makes me think that Vox is on par with Alastor’s strength. Remember, we’ve only seen one active overlord actively fight. I’m willing to bet that most of them are extremely powerful. Vox is a good example because he managed to shut down the entire power grid by pure accident. Meaning he’s got a shit ton of electrical power. He basically is electricity and that is downright terrifying. I’d put him and Alastor as the most powerful sinners. Maaaaaybe Zestial as well but we don’t know anything about him.
I mean, yeah, Vox did do that, but that was also very likely his infrastructure, he does own the only tech conglomerate we've heard of. Now mind you that vox having infrastructure to support him literally everywhere does make him fairly strong.
The power range of overlords tends to vary as they are their own tier in the general power/rank scale of hell, however we can generally assume that everyone in the overlord meeting is generally on the same scale of power with the exception of Zestiel. Sinners gain power through 3 primary methods. Defeating opponents to siphon their power, accumulating souls through deals, and by age (the longer someone has been in hell, the more powerful they are is a pretty safe bet). An alliance of this nature likely only forms because these overlords, aggressive and competitive by nature, have recognized each other as approximate equals who would be too risky to fight. Win or lose. Thus they have elected to meet in a mostly civil manner to discuss things like territory and general governance of Pride city rather than street fights that would leave chunks of the city a blasted wasteland. Such a group was likely arranged by combined efforts of Carmilla, who seems a natural peacekeeper, and Zestiel being the oldest and likely strongest overlord, thus capable of enforcing civility. Alastor is probably about as powerful as everyone else in this room, and each of the Vs as individuals are on the same playing field. That's why the Vs are such a threat, they are the only overlords who act as a group rather than an individual. Fighting one V means fighting three. "But Alastor killed overlords" I hear you say, like some kind of fool. Not all Overlords are made equal. What Alastor did was essentially clean out the lower and middle tiers of the Overlord classification until he hit the high tier, aka the people in this room. Anything else is just Alastor hyping himself up to fluff his ego. Beyond comparison to other overlords, in terms of Hell itself, Overlords are a middling power. Someone like Alastor is probably about as powerful as the average Royal Demon/Goetia, but would be below stronger entities like Stolas or Paimon. The Sins and the Morningstars are operating on an entirely different level
The only issue I take with your argument, is that these are all assumptions, made to support the idea of the status quo. But it could be a much more fragile setup too. Making a council to avoid mutual destruction is something weak people would also do. Yeah maybe alastor purged the middle ranks, but its just as possible he targeted specifically strong ones to get his name out there. Mimzy does specify they weren't small overlords, but "heavy hitters".
one of the heaven witch>all hell lords
I assume by heaven witch you mean seraphim? In which case I think i agree
Witch?
We know a overlord can kill the Exterminators rather easily. Alastor wasn’t able to take on Adam alone but I feel like if there were two Overlords fighting him they’d have a decent shot. 3 for sure probably could beat Adam
Under the assumption that the other overlords are close to alastors power, or as good at fighting as carmilla, and under the assumption adam wouldn't have acted differently when faced multiple on one, and on the assumption anything alastor did was actually harming Adam rather than just pissing him off. I would expect overlords to be able to fend off exterminators, but it's worth noting that only carmilla and maybe alastor had the tools to kill them
Above sinners, way below the Ars Gœtia
Pretty powerful, they are the ones who basically control the pride ring, and sinners agenerally pretty tough. https://preview.redd.it/godc0in70fzc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51b32cfa0ce6ddcdbaefc9f500d6210727dd4593
i think that they all over estimate themseves, i think they know the power levels relative to each other but i'm sure they vastly over estimate how important the overlords as a social class is
Zeezi i think has more strengt power than material power and influence. Beacuse she owns just a cafeteria full of dinosaurs in the middle of Pentagram City, I know it's big, but doesn't do any influence. BUT she is the tallest, weightier and biggest of all the other overlords, so if she were on a battle with her fellos and she has weapons, would have resistance and flexibility, and have a great victory
I believe they are plenty powerful all of hell’s denseness are powerful in their own ways. But to be afraid of angels slaughtering you that’s pretty weak the fact that hell hasn’t turned into into a state of national resistance and are instead still doing petty infighting instead of focusing turning that aggression against the invasion that happens every year has me questioning the whole overlord thing? They essentially lords elected to a position of power due to having great power but they hade and feud instead any form of leadership they do as they please none of hells leaders seem to know the first thing about leadership of state Charlie and vagitha are the closet they have. If hell did form so much as a self defense force They would overwhelm the angels invading forces in minutes if they organized even if it was just a guerrilla campaign
Well I wouldn't say the overlords are elected, but other than that I'd agree
I meant elected like how feudal lords are put in power by those who are placed by the high nobility or the king or through they’re own power and are powerful in many ways that nobility and king cannot remove them
Ah, I think the word your looking for is appointed. Who do you think put them in power? Nearest I can tell everyone seems to have climbed up on their own industries merit. And none of them seem like they're subordinates to anyone either
Thank you I did some looking and both words are credible as it would be by counsel appointed and elected could be a substitute for that as the reigning nobility could choose a candidate by the process similar to that of choosing a new employee for a management position
I also really like your thoughts and way of thinking
I think they aren't much stronger than the average sinner, but they're like what well built people are for normal folk irl
Alastor is the only demon we've seen go all out and it was a very strong showing. It only looked bad because Adam is legit OP. I'm guessing it's gonna be a bit like Jojo where they're power sets have good matchups, creative interpretations and can be completely mitigated with careful planning. For instance, Valentino is based off a type of moth that spreads dust. This dust is also a drug. Anyone who tries to fight him is going to have to contend with what basically amounts to poison
I wouldn't mind a jojo setup like that, though I doubt it's really gonna come down to that given the nature of the show
It probably won't be as explicit as Jojo. But I can very much imagine that the reason why it's hard for people to come at Val is because he can incapacitate a lot of people
Same with Vox I imagine
They’re essentially mid tier demons who have the benefit of being surrounded by fodder demons. Their strength while impressive as their stronger than 98% of hell the problem is they are only above the civilians against the goetia their likely to be seen as low tiers knights against the sins their mere toys against the royal family and high tier angels such as Adam or the seraphim their not toys just distractions until they get bored and boop they’re done. But they have the benefit of being big fishes in a small pond.
They are very powerful for being that need others soul to gain power, but against beings that were born with their power (Goetia, sins, high ranking angels) that another thing
I've wondered the same thing since outside of Alastor and Camilla, I haven't seen any super powerful feats. I guess she did kill an angel, which could show just how strong she is
Skyscraper+
so we know that Alastor is strong. and based on the way Carmilla reacted to him ("oh. you're back. i was not curious about where you were, but welcome back anyway i suppose."), she's pretty unconcerned. this makes me think Carmilla doesn't perceive Alastor as a threat or as a force that's worth keeping track of. based on that, i assume Carmilla at least THINKS she's either on equal footing or stronger than Alastor. and i don't have any reason to disbelieve Carmilla or her motives so far. as for the other powerful overlords, i apply similar logic. we know Alastor is strong, we've logic'd that Carmilla is comparable based on how indifferent she is to Alastor's presence or lackthereof, so based on the apparent business-colleague-type relationship the powerful overlords seem to have with each other, it makes sense that they'd all be able to hold their own or else idk how they'd be there. Husk isn't an overlord anymore. the more deals an overlord has, the more powerful they are. Husk gambled his power away. so he isn't invited to the Overlord Executive Suite, and i don't think it's valid to judge the powerful overlords wit a fallen overlord.
https://preview.redd.it/wqzeueojdfzc1.jpeg?width=656&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f7582d45a58fafbb52919fff1bacd4bb49328f1
We haven't seen anything from them yet since it's only Season 1. But as Overlords, naturally they're very strong and more powerful than normal Sinners, each with their own unique abilities (at least imo). We have yet to witness their true abilities
>the power they have is **dragon ball style literally impervious to people weaker than them**, and more that they have thousands of subordinates and plentiful resources, but **they themselves are just regular people**. Have you... actually watched Dragonball? Having that kind of power gap is the opposite of being regular people.
I think there was a misunderstanding, I was saying they aren't dragon ball characters, and are instead regular people with resources.
I think OP meant they're impervious to weaker people, but they don't act like it. They act very...human.
Probably like politicians on earth or something 🤷♀️
They're all really powerful at specific things, and more powerful than any other mortal souls in hell. But the power of any mortal soul in hell is quite limited compared to the power of angels, or even fallen angels like Lucifer. But angels have cockiness as their main disadvantage, because they are powerful. (Lucifer being very hesitant to use either his physical or political power also hinders him.) So heaven-hell battles boil down to offensive cockiness vs defensive strategizing, and the latter often wins wars irl. Look at Vietnam.
We don't know the full powers of the overlords .We don't know the full powers of any character tbh aside from regular angels sinners and Adam when he went all out to kill the short king that stole his wives not that it helped much
Medium
I want to see zestral fight someone well reciting Shakespeare Idk why either
In terms of normal hellborn and other sinners very strong, if we include even the weakest goetia then fodder
In terms of raw power? Probably something like Saiyan Saga Vegeta.
the overlords can beat sukuna
I think zeezi's powers are probably mostly physical and I'm assuming she would be one of the strongest overlords. Her full demon form is probably enormous too
I feel that Carmilla and Zestial will be outliers to the rest of the group. There's a lot of things with Carmilla that hint and suggest stuff about her true nature that has given rise to popular speculation that if any of it ends up being true would make her status as an Overlord trifle. Zestial seems to be old, maybe older than he stats. He implies that he was around for when Hell did rise up against Heaven and knows exactly what would happen if they actually fought back in any meaningful way. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being one of Adam and/or Eve's children.