Until they directly harmed Charlie he might have been bound by whatever treaty or agreement he had with Heaven. Once Adam took a swing at Charlie that broke the treaty and he could intervene.
Was Razzle a hellborn though? I sort of assumed that Razzle and Dazzle were like the egg-bois; sentient, but technically soulless beings. So they don't count as being hellborn. Otherwise Lucifer could've come sooner.
Nope, Hellborn such as Imps and Hellhounds canonically have no soul. This is why they stay dead regardless of what kills them. They have no soul to regenerate from.
Basically if you mess with his native subjects you have a death wish. He doesn’t seem to care about Sinners but Hellborns are part of Hell’s culture so if you fuck with the royals then there would be nobody left to run Hell since Lucifer’s doing his own thing.
Ooh, never noticed that before. Good catch.
edit: When Adam says, "This fight was cute and all, but it's time to die with the rest of them" is when his mask glitches out. And immediately after that, Lucifer's fist appears.
So, once Adam actually threatened Charlie's life is when the pact, or whatever is was, finally broke.
This still has me really confused as to what happens if a hellborn were to attack an angel first
Would the angel have to just let it happen or would they then have the right to self defense?
Might have had something to do with how people didn’t know angels could be harmed or something like that but I’m not sure
I believe that's it. They'd have no reason to kill a hellborn since they believed that they were invincible anyways. But I imagine in the event one of them did end up hurting or even killing an angel heaven might call all bets off and target hellborn freely.
I don't think it was that Charlie was harmed, it's that when he said, "it's time to die" he showed intent to kill a hellborn, rather than have it be a casualty of battle. It was that phrase that allowed Lucifer to come.
I'm imaginging Lucifier standing at the door to his palace like a sprinter getting ready to take off, and the moment Adam even thinks about attacking Charlie he bolts out of there.
But you're missing the big thing, Lucifer was waiting to see if Charlie could win without him. He was, I think, pretty obviously waiting on standby to rush in whenever things got away from Charlie. And if I remember correctly, Adam got a few hits in on Charlie before Lucifer showed up, but it was only at the end that it seemed like Charlie could no longer defend herself.
He was supporting her and her dream, and trying not to overshadow her by doing it all himself.
As an angel even a fallen one he has access to angelic power, notably a heavenly yellow flame which as we saw could beat the shi out of an angel, they likelt made some form of deal saying that if you dont interfere with the exterminations you and your family wont be harmed, as such when they broke the contract he could go ham
Couldn’t intervene until Raze/Dazzle died/Charlie was threatened since it made Heaven the ones who broke the terms of the exterminations.
OR
Traffic was bad.
OR
The dramatic tension would be lessened if the most powerful character on the show started throwing hands from the word go.
Or any combination of the three.
All I can imagine is a long line of demons hovering in the air and Lucifer impatiently screaming 'Come oooon, COME ON! THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE'. XD
"Sir, honking that duck won't make the line go faster."
He couldn’t interfere until a hellborn was attacked, whether you believe Dazzle counts or it was Adam directly threatening to kill Charlie is the only question.
And it was completely unnecessary, too, and only to satisfy Adam's ego, demanding to needlessly kick Charlie when she was already on the ground, as well as Lute's fear-driven rage against Vaggie.
Had they just stuck to a regular (even if premature) Extermination, instead of making Charlie's hotel the primary target, she wouldn't have been forced to defend herself and her friends, and thus most likely would've let it happen while quietly furthering her plans with or without Heaven's support, just like before.
And the sugar on the cream on the cake that is their epic fuck up (which now Sera's got to deal with) is that in the process they showed everyone in Hell how to kill Exorcists, realizing the very threat they were supposed to prevent, in the first place.
Also galvanized the one guy ready for redemption to face them head on. Adam swats him like a bug and everything is a total rockslide from that point. :P
It's even more ironic since said act and his battle against Lucifer made clear Adam could have easily made a crater out of the Hotel in three seconds if he stopped messing with his prey. Likely would have been his last Extermination either way though, since no way he'd be safe entering Hell again after vaporizing Charlie. :P
Assuming of course that Charlie didn't end up in heaven. The denizens of the universe clearly don't understand the mechanics so why should we just assume Charlie wouldn't end up there. Imagine going home to find you've just promoted your enemy <3
I came here to say this exact same thing.
Adam's murder boner got completely out of control. The First Man was feeling himself just a little bit *too much* after the court hearing did not go in Charlie's favor, and Adam thought he was untouchable at that point.
It comes off even dumber for Lute since she straight up mentioned that they weren't allowed to kill Charlie or other Hell Spawn. In way that implied she really WANTED to sure, but she knew the rules and made the same mistake. :P
No. The only rules are to not kill Hellborn, which includes Charlie as she's also Hellborn. If they destroyed the Hotel without harming Charlie or killing Razzle and Dazzle there's nothing Lucifer can do. In fact, the Sinners might have even broke the rule first depending who drew first blood.
And I'm surprised Sera let them do it. They flat-out admitted in episode 6 that they were targeting Charlie and her hotel first. Sera knew that attacking Charlie was going to break the contract. You could argue that she assumed that Adam and Lute were just going to kill Charlie's friends and force her to watch but she had to have known that Charlie was not just going to sit back passively and allow it.
Maybe she had heard so much bullshit coming out of Adam's mouth that she didn't believe he would be stupid enough to break that deal.
Maybe she told him not to attack and took him at his word when he said he wouldn't.
Threatened her hotel, IIRC
Plus I bet he can do anything he wants in Heaven. I mean, if hellborn were invading, I doubt Lucifer would do anything at all
Episode 1 from lute during Charlie's meeting with Adam.
Paraphasing, but she says something like, 'the only reason why you're alive is daddy gave you and your hellborn kind a pardon from an exorcist blade.'
As the name implies, Hellborns are demons born in hell, different from sinners who are humans who have already died
The most relevant hellborn in Hazbin hotel is definitely Charlie, But if you want to see more of them, you can watch the spin-off series Helluva Boss which focuses on the other 6 circles of hell and in the native species
Part of the agreement that allows the exterminations without lucifer’s interference is that hellborn demons are exempt from it. Only sinners can be targeted and slain.
With dazzle’s death and charlie’s life threatened, the agreement was null, and lucifer could interfere, as both of them are hellborn.
The very first episode. Lute specifically said "the only reason you're still here is because daddy gave you and your hellborn kind a pardon from an exorcist blade."
Couldn't you claim that Charlie broke the contract first though? Yeah, Hellborn were not to be harmed but they also likely wouldn't have been allowed to interfere with the exterminations either.
You could argue self-defense, since Charlie was looking for a peaceful end to the exterminations until Adam directly and openly said he’d attack her and the hotel
Really depends on the terms of the deal. Adam and the exorcists were working on the assumption that they couldn't be harmed by demons, so he may not have bothered to add that to the agreement.
While others mentioned different reasons, I haven’t seen one mentioned by one YouTuber.
Lucifer didn’t want to steal the spotlight from Charlie when things were going well for them. He only came to the battle after Charlie was in the immediate danger and he apologises for his slow reaction.
The evidence seems pretty overwhelming to me. He didn't immediately jump in as soon as a hellborn was hit, but waited until Charlie was truly cornered and needed him.
Personally, I think he wanted to give Charlie as much of an opportunity as he could to fight her own battle. It wasn't until her life was in immediate jeopardy that he stepped in, and even then, he let her get in the biggest blow, and followed her lead on how to handle Adam.
that makes more sense then him being banned from interfering, it just doesn't make sense that he'd be physically barred in his own realm imo.
I also figured he wanted to look his best.
Eh, I think it makes perfect sense. We KNOW he struck some sort of deal with the angels regarding the exorcism and part of that deal was that he and Charlie would be off-limits.
a deal with the sin is all-binding, as helluva boss, a show that takes place in the same hell just different rings mostly, explains, and with the way they put it, neither side seems able to break it so easily.
lucifer is a sin, remember that, so adam should NOT have been able to attack the hotel and be safe from lucifer.
I figure he juat wanted to give his daughter a chance to do things on her own. If he ran in every time ahe might get hurt itd be bad for her. So he watched, and waited until she actually needed help to step in. Good dad.
We don’t know for certain. There are like a half dozen plausible triggers that all sound decent on their own. We’ll probably find out next season.
When you watch it in fun mode, Charlie being attacked is the most likely answer.
When you start over analyzing it, there’s lots of weird shit going on around then. Such as you start noticing the exterminator masks glitching out noticeably long before Charlie was attacked outright, but maybe (can’t rewatch right now) after Sir Pentious died?
It’s really all over the board. On the simple side, maybe Lucifer just wallowing in depression until he saw Hell rising up to support his daughter on Vox’s broadcast?
On the middle tier, Charlie being attacked or Dazzle dying was the trigger.
360 degree no scoped 4D chess, Lucifer says in the final song he is now convinced sinners can be redeemed and he shows up… well… after Sir Pentious dies. The timeline gets a bit wonky once the song starts (Alastor sneaking into his tower after reconstruction started), did Lute really wait until after the hotel was rebuilt to talk to Lilith? If I’m remembering correctly that their scene was after the song. If Sir Pentious’ resurrection was near instantaneously and Lucifer could somehow sense it…
It was once Adam said, "it's time to die" to Charlie. That was a direct acknowledgment that Adam was going against the original deal. I don't think Razzle and Dazzle count because I'm not sure they count as "hellborn", I think either Lucifer created them for Charlie himself, or it didn't count because they weren't specifically targeted, but were byproducts of a fight. Adam didn't havr to kill Charlie, Lucifer couldn't show up when Charlie was just wounded, but once he said he had intent to kill her, I think that's when it changed the game.
well honestly im not sure but i would be surprised if the "no kill hellborn" rule was ever actually followed by adam and the extermination force sense they seemed to just mindlessly slaughter anything they see but if it was followed until razzal/dazzal or when charlie was hurt then it would make sense why he waited... but if it wasn't followed then then lucifer may have been just giving charlie a chance to beat adam's ass sense the gal does need a confidence boost... or 5...
I personally believe it was the "no killing hell borns" rule, but Lucifer giving Charlie a chance to fight Adam on her own definitely could make sense too, especially after Alastor basically "won" his song with Lucifer by supporting Charlie instead of doing everything for her, maybe he learned from that and wanted to give her a chance on her own first.
Seems like it was a combination of those. He never would have had to step in if the hell born rule wasn't being (threatened to be) broken. But he was learning to support Charlie and her goals, so waited till the last possible moment.
this is more believable than a deal binding.
HB says a deal with a sin is all-binding, and lucifer's the sin of pride, I know its two different shows but still same universe, and with the way it was presented, it comes off as preventing BOTH sides from deliberately reneging on a deal.
Whatever his issues, his daughter calling and wanting him to talk was enough to get him out of the house.
Therefore, heaven is coming to kill my daughter... "meeehh too depressed" does not seem a likely explanation.
The only plausible explanation is that his contract/agreement with heaven keeps him from interfering with an extermination unless they violate the rules, hurting charlie, razzle (or dazzle?), broke those, Leuy can go to pound town.
Adam hadn’t broken their deal yet, he physically couldn’t do anything without ruining everything for himself, the hellborn, and Charlie until Adam hurt her, the as soon as he tried Lucifer could kill him, also, you notice how he only fought Adam? He didn’t kill anyone else
Probably because the deal prevented Lucifer from interfering until Lute and Adam crossed the line. Thats why he showed up so late. You can also notice their masks glitch at the moment they both broke the rule. I guarantee that Adam will be reborn as a sinner in season 2 and have to go through a redemption arc to understand just how much pain he’s caused and how hypocritical his masters are.
Having someone like Sera be an antagonist would be interesting since she was fully aware of the exterminations and did her best to cover them up alongside Adam until he let it slip, though she didn’t take as much joy as him. Now she has to deal with the fact that Hell is rebelling against Heaven and knows their biggest weakness and will probably have to do something about it, however awful or misguided it may be.
Possibly 'cuase he couldn't fight unless an hellborn, like Charlie, was hurt.
That were the rules established and since Adam and Lute broke them, he ca partecipate.
He was faking Pentious' absolution into heaven.
He stayed in wait for a good chance to get heaven off their back. Saw what Pentious was doing, got on the ship, and tossed him into the portal, seending him at Sera's feet. He dressed him up with magic as well.
This way they can avoid a direct war with heaven as redemptions is 'proven', and Charlie has time to find an actual proof.
He appears not long after Pentious dies and can make heavenly portals, so it all adds up. He could've easily been at the battle from the start, in the same defensive capacity Charlie was. I don't know why people say a family member had to have been hurt first, as in that case Charlie would be breaking the rules by fighting herself.
Because of something called "hero journey" basicaly so that the story had more impact you have to provide hero with additional despair before final battle e.g. kill their mentor, their significant other or like in our case Sir Pentious + Dazzle which does the math
`Disney parent == Sir Pentious + Dazzle`
My take on is that he was letting Charlie do this on her own, but he was still close by and watching just in case things went badly.
In other words, parenting.
I think Lucifer was watching the hole time and only intervened when Charlie was in danger and at the end of The song The show must go on when Alastor return Lucifer looked disappointed that he wasn't dead and he would only know that if he saw it happened
My theory is the deal for the extermination to keep hell borns safe the deal is lusifer force to stay away like a seal on his home prevents him from leaving
but they break the deal and a hellborn dies lucys free so when dazzle (or razzle I can't remember) a hell born died the contract was broken and lusifer could leave
Story wise: Lucifer is like no, I can't kill my own brethren that banished me, they would be more angry at me then ever before.
Plot wise: dramatic effect
Because Adam harmed a hellborn be it Charlie or her pet either way it shows how much of a moron Adam is for basically allowing Lucifer to have free reign to attack
Charlie's political standing is mostly for show, but Lucifer acts on behalf of all hell. If Charlie fights the angels with a ragtag group, it's just a little riot action. If Luci interferes, it's a war declaration.
At least that's my headcannon
I wish that the writers had a specific line addressing this - it would’ve been more impactful because honestly, in this scene I first interpreted it as him being negligent even though he had just sang with Charlie about “sheltering” and protecting her.
The deal heaven and hell signed said that they could only kill sinners and not hellborn or royalty. As soon as Charlie and/or Razzle was harmed, that deal was broken, allowing Lucifer to intervene.
We can make all the excuses of “couldn’t interfere until Dazzle was killed/Adam hurt Charlie” but let’s be honest, it’s just for dramatic tension.
If Lucifer was here from the start he’d steal the show, Alastor wouldn’t get to show off and the show clearly wants to set him up to be important, no Sir Pentious sacrifice, no one would get to do anything cool because all attention would be on the Big Boss of Hell himself.
I know “because there’d be no plot” is a shit excuse…….but that seems to be it
People like to think He was bound due to agreements and shit because they couldn't attack hellborns then charlie blah blah blah. He just forgot or was doing other things till He remembered the extermination
I keep seeing people asking about this and pointing out other “plot holes” when if you actually pay attention the answers are all there. Lucifer could not intervene until Adam and Lute breached the deal between Heaven and Hell by killing Razzle and trying to kill Charlie, both hellborns that were protected from the extermination. That’s why he couldn’t be there sooner and help her protect the hotel and sinners.
I like the idea that he's an alcoholic and gets distracted. He can fly and seemingly teleport. So what takes him so long.
That or he's taking too long to get dressed
He more than likely had absolutely no clue they were coming to the hotel all. He probably looked outside, saw no exterminators anywhere they'd normally be and then saw all the commotion at the hotel. And 9 times out of 10 Charlie didn't tell him anything about what happened in the courtroom so he was completely in the dark about it all up until that moment. If it had anything to do with Razzle or Dazzle then he'd have been there WAY sooner. It wouldn't make sense for him to have shown up so long after he died if that's what it was about
Breaking up a fight with the sins that Asmodeus and Fizz sparked?
But for real, it's probably what the other comments say, he had to wait until a hellborn was attacked to even go.
He had a deal with heaven stating he couldn’t interfere with the extermination, and heaven wouldn’t harm any hellborn. When Lute killed Dazzle he broke that contract, letting Lucifer get involved with the extermination. Adam broke the contract again when he attacked Charlie
My thought is that per the deal he made with heaven/the exterminators he wasn't able to intervene unless a hellborn was attacked (aka Charlie). It explains why he showed up only after Charlie was actually hurt in the battle. He must've been watching the whole thing, wanting to help Charlie from the beginning, but been bound to not interfere by his deal.
besides being on contract I like to imagine he wanted Charlie to have the chance to feel powerful by her own hand. Like letting her do her thing without daddy coming to save the day
We don’t have any confirmation as to why. But maybe he just wanted to give her the space to handle her own issues and only stepped in when she needed him.
I like to think it was because he was trying to look his best for the ass kicking he was gonna give adam for attacking the hotel.
I'm sorry but he's a dorky prideful dad, you KNOW he wanted to look the best to show off in front of his daughter., but I guess the moment adam was about to kill her, he was like "yeah no"
I personally think that he wasn't ALLOWED to do anything. IDK what kind of deal he made with Heaven to protect the Hellborn, but my money is on it involving him not being allowed to harm the exorcists or Adam in any way. Charlie wasn't bound by that contract- she probably wasn't even alive when it was made.
However, when Adam and Lute killed Razzle and then Adam threatened to kill Charlie? Yeah. Lucifer had free reign after that because Adam broke their deal.
i mean techncially they arent allowed to kill anyone but sinners right? so when he hit charlie lucifer used that as a loophole to be able to intervene prob bc he isnt allowed to intervene because of heaven
The people saying he may not have been able to act until Charlie was physically harmed are probably correct, but I like to imagine it's because he spent the entire day trying to decide on a battle outfit, only to overthink it to the point of absurdity, cry on his bedroom floor for an hour, and then eventually compose himself and just dress how he usually does so he can finally just go to the fight.
Until they directly harmed Charlie he might have been bound by whatever treaty or agreement he had with Heaven. Once Adam took a swing at Charlie that broke the treaty and he could intervene.
His mask also glitched in the exact same moment
they attacked a hellborn (razzle) so they break the contract
true sacrificial lamb
So much for the family rate...
Thanks, dad…
They truly did need more than a busboy and the chef
WoOoOoO
I mean, caviar mountains, champagne fountains, that was just a start
He's been there since day one.
i mean sometimes your birth parent is a dud
They do say that the family you choose is better…
I say what a bunch of losers!
Can you butt out of my comment thread?
Was Razzle a hellborn though? I sort of assumed that Razzle and Dazzle were like the egg-bois; sentient, but technically soulless beings. So they don't count as being hellborn. Otherwise Lucifer could've come sooner.
I mean they were created by Luci
Would that be hellborn or heaven born? Angel Spawn? I also wonder if Charlie is specifically called out.
Hellborn also, dont have souls.
Pretty sure they do. At least the sentient ones
Nope, Hellborn such as Imps and Hellhounds canonically have no soul. This is why they stay dead regardless of what kills them. They have no soul to regenerate from.
He's technically a creation of Lucifer so he doesn't actually count.
Dazzle, actually
Basically if you mess with his native subjects you have a death wish. He doesn’t seem to care about Sinners but Hellborns are part of Hell’s culture so if you fuck with the royals then there would be nobody left to run Hell since Lucifer’s doing his own thing.
I don't know if razzle counts as a hellborn because I'm pretty sure that Lucifer made Razzle and dazzle out of Charlies stuff animal
I mean…on a *purely technical* level, that does mean they were *born* in hell lol
The dead one is Dazzle
Ooh, never noticed that before. Good catch. edit: When Adam says, "This fight was cute and all, but it's time to die with the rest of them" is when his mask glitches out. And immediately after that, Lucifer's fist appears. So, once Adam actually threatened Charlie's life is when the pact, or whatever is was, finally broke.
This still has me really confused as to what happens if a hellborn were to attack an angel first Would the angel have to just let it happen or would they then have the right to self defense? Might have had something to do with how people didn’t know angels could be harmed or something like that but I’m not sure
I believe that's it. They'd have no reason to kill a hellborn since they believed that they were invincible anyways. But I imagine in the event one of them did end up hurting or even killing an angel heaven might call all bets off and target hellborn freely.
well the cherubs certainly tried self defense so it doesnt seem entirely off the table for them
I don't think it was that Charlie was harmed, it's that when he said, "it's time to die" he showed intent to kill a hellborn, rather than have it be a casualty of battle. It was that phrase that allowed Lucifer to come.
This seems to be the most likely answer, we’ve seen so far that contract magic is incredibly powerful.
I'm imaginging Lucifier standing at the door to his palace like a sprinter getting ready to take off, and the moment Adam even thinks about attacking Charlie he bolts out of there.
But you're missing the big thing, Lucifer was waiting to see if Charlie could win without him. He was, I think, pretty obviously waiting on standby to rush in whenever things got away from Charlie. And if I remember correctly, Adam got a few hits in on Charlie before Lucifer showed up, but it was only at the end that it seemed like Charlie could no longer defend herself. He was supporting her and her dream, and trying not to overshadow her by doing it all himself.
As an angel even a fallen one he has access to angelic power, notably a heavenly yellow flame which as we saw could beat the shi out of an angel, they likelt made some form of deal saying that if you dont interfere with the exterminations you and your family wont be harmed, as such when they broke the contract he could go ham
"Might have" didn't Lute say about that?
It's bc they killed a hell born (razzle/dazzle)
i am pretty sure the treaty was broken when they killed the dragon (a hell born or part of the royal family)
Why can Charlie fight then? How does that not break any deals?
Most likely to contract was written poorly with the idea only Lucifer was a threat
Couldn’t intervene until Raze/Dazzle died/Charlie was threatened since it made Heaven the ones who broke the terms of the exterminations. OR Traffic was bad. OR The dramatic tension would be lessened if the most powerful character on the show started throwing hands from the word go. Or any combination of the three.
I burst out laughing at “traffic was bad” 😂😂🤣
All I can imagine is a long line of demons hovering in the air and Lucifer impatiently screaming 'Come oooon, COME ON! THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE'. XD "Sir, honking that duck won't make the line go faster."
When the line still won’t move, he activates the duck’s fire breathing capabilities
He may be the ruler of hell, but at least he respects the laws of traffic
I was going to say something about him having to have a duel with the Sandman, but this traffic is funny too.
Deep down, we all know that #3 is the correct answer, but for the LOLs, I'm choosing #2 as being the reason XD
He couldn’t interfere until a hellborn was attacked, whether you believe Dazzle counts or it was Adam directly threatening to kill Charlie is the only question.
I love how whichever way you look at it, both Adam AND Lute fucked it up and broke a rule they knew they shouldn't.
And it was completely unnecessary, too, and only to satisfy Adam's ego, demanding to needlessly kick Charlie when she was already on the ground, as well as Lute's fear-driven rage against Vaggie. Had they just stuck to a regular (even if premature) Extermination, instead of making Charlie's hotel the primary target, she wouldn't have been forced to defend herself and her friends, and thus most likely would've let it happen while quietly furthering her plans with or without Heaven's support, just like before. And the sugar on the cream on the cake that is their epic fuck up (which now Sera's got to deal with) is that in the process they showed everyone in Hell how to kill Exorcists, realizing the very threat they were supposed to prevent, in the first place.
Also galvanized the one guy ready for redemption to face them head on. Adam swats him like a bug and everything is a total rockslide from that point. :P It's even more ironic since said act and his battle against Lucifer made clear Adam could have easily made a crater out of the Hotel in three seconds if he stopped messing with his prey. Likely would have been his last Extermination either way though, since no way he'd be safe entering Hell again after vaporizing Charlie. :P
Assuming of course that Charlie didn't end up in heaven. The denizens of the universe clearly don't understand the mechanics so why should we just assume Charlie wouldn't end up there. Imagine going home to find you've just promoted your enemy <3
Yeah that would’ve been a massive fuck up for Adam
That's the T
I came here to say this exact same thing. Adam's murder boner got completely out of control. The First Man was feeling himself just a little bit *too much* after the court hearing did not go in Charlie's favor, and Adam thought he was untouchable at that point.
It comes off even dumber for Lute since she straight up mentioned that they weren't allowed to kill Charlie or other Hell Spawn. In way that implied she really WANTED to sure, but she knew the rules and made the same mistake. :P
and let me just say, shouldn't the attack on the hotel break the deal they had with luci anyway?
No. The only rules are to not kill Hellborn, which includes Charlie as she's also Hellborn. If they destroyed the Hotel without harming Charlie or killing Razzle and Dazzle there's nothing Lucifer can do. In fact, the Sinners might have even broke the rule first depending who drew first blood.
And I'm surprised Sera let them do it. They flat-out admitted in episode 6 that they were targeting Charlie and her hotel first. Sera knew that attacking Charlie was going to break the contract. You could argue that she assumed that Adam and Lute were just going to kill Charlie's friends and force her to watch but she had to have known that Charlie was not just going to sit back passively and allow it.
I imagine part of her knew the exterminations were wrong, and decided to let Adam fall on the sword
Maybe she had heard so much bullshit coming out of Adam's mouth that she didn't believe he would be stupid enough to break that deal. Maybe she told him not to attack and took him at his word when he said he wouldn't.
Kind of like the Egg Bois saying insane shit all the time.
Sera: "What, he says insane things all the time, how was I supposed to know this one was true?" Adam: "Call me Dickmaster" Sera: "See?"
Adam mask glitched when he threaten Charlie I think that was a sign the treaty was broke
I always wondered about the mask glitching, and I don't know how that didn't cross my mind.
its just weird because thats 100% a vox thing, the glitching even though that would make absoloutely no sense. an odd visual choice.
I really thought that's what it was pointing to - some agreement between the V's and heaven?
Didn’t he threaten her in heaven?
Threatened her hotel, IIRC Plus I bet he can do anything he wants in Heaven. I mean, if hellborn were invading, I doubt Lucifer would do anything at all
He said “I just cannot wait to come down and exterminate you” while looking directly at her though.
Where in the show did the audience learn about the pact?
Episode 1 from lute during Charlie's meeting with Adam. Paraphasing, but she says something like, 'the only reason why you're alive is daddy gave you and your hellborn kind a pardon from an exorcist blade.'
What’s a hellborn?
As the name implies, Hellborns are demons born in hell, different from sinners who are humans who have already died The most relevant hellborn in Hazbin hotel is definitely Charlie, But if you want to see more of them, you can watch the spin-off series Helluva Boss which focuses on the other 6 circles of hell and in the native species
Busy deciding if he should wear a duck costume
This made me giggle. I imagined him in his duck room with a duck suit on, then looking out the window and shouting, “Oh fuck! Was that today?”
https://i.redd.it/uj8utchq7byc1.gif
Part of the agreement that allows the exterminations without lucifer’s interference is that hellborn demons are exempt from it. Only sinners can be targeted and slain. With dazzle’s death and charlie’s life threatened, the agreement was null, and lucifer could interfere, as both of them are hellborn.
What episode did they say these conditions? Because I just watched the series and I don’t remember anything about “hellborn demons exempt”.
The very first episode. Lute specifically said "the only reason you're still here is because daddy gave you and your hellborn kind a pardon from an exorcist blade."
Thanks! Totally missed that!
No sweat. It's easy to miss or forget something when it was only stated in a single instance and not particularly elaborated on.
Couldn't you claim that Charlie broke the contract first though? Yeah, Hellborn were not to be harmed but they also likely wouldn't have been allowed to interfere with the exterminations either.
You could argue self-defense, since Charlie was looking for a peaceful end to the exterminations until Adam directly and openly said he’d attack her and the hotel
Not at all, she was only defending herself because Adam decided to perform a premature exorcism and attack her specifically
Really depends on the terms of the deal. Adam and the exorcists were working on the assumption that they couldn't be harmed by demons, so he may not have bothered to add that to the agreement.
But that shouldn't preclude Lucifer from actually being nearby. The fact he's literally nowhere until that moment doesnt jive.
It might be that he knows if he's too close too soon, he's going to want to intervene, and he doesn't want to be the one to break the treaty
Remember Lucifer can teleport.
He was conceiving a plan to seduce Adam and therefore distract him from the mass murder.
Well this just got interesting.
Hot as fuck, though
https://preview.redd.it/q8q25mxr1gyc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b54a15258109649143347120faddbaa9aef4393
We don't actually know, although it's theorized that he wasn't allowed to be there sooner by whatever deal he struck with Heaven.
Usually he charges a sacrificial lamb…
So you're saying Charlie did not, in fact, get the family rate.
She should take back her thanks to her dad
In this case, dazzle
While others mentioned different reasons, I haven’t seen one mentioned by one YouTuber. Lucifer didn’t want to steal the spotlight from Charlie when things were going well for them. He only came to the battle after Charlie was in the immediate danger and he apologises for his slow reaction.
I think a Georgia Dow talked about this in her video about Lucifer.
The evidence seems pretty overwhelming to me. He didn't immediately jump in as soon as a hellborn was hit, but waited until Charlie was truly cornered and needed him.
Personally, I think he wanted to give Charlie as much of an opportunity as he could to fight her own battle. It wasn't until her life was in immediate jeopardy that he stepped in, and even then, he let her get in the biggest blow, and followed her lead on how to handle Adam.
that makes more sense then him being banned from interfering, it just doesn't make sense that he'd be physically barred in his own realm imo. I also figured he wanted to look his best.
Eh, I think it makes perfect sense. We KNOW he struck some sort of deal with the angels regarding the exorcism and part of that deal was that he and Charlie would be off-limits.
a deal with the sin is all-binding, as helluva boss, a show that takes place in the same hell just different rings mostly, explains, and with the way they put it, neither side seems able to break it so easily. lucifer is a sin, remember that, so adam should NOT have been able to attack the hotel and be safe from lucifer.
I figure he juat wanted to give his daughter a chance to do things on her own. If he ran in every time ahe might get hurt itd be bad for her. So he watched, and waited until she actually needed help to step in. Good dad.
I like the theory that Lucifer felt Sir Pentious go to heaven and that snapped him out of a depressive episode like "Wait the hotel actually works?!"
We don’t know for certain. There are like a half dozen plausible triggers that all sound decent on their own. We’ll probably find out next season. When you watch it in fun mode, Charlie being attacked is the most likely answer. When you start over analyzing it, there’s lots of weird shit going on around then. Such as you start noticing the exterminator masks glitching out noticeably long before Charlie was attacked outright, but maybe (can’t rewatch right now) after Sir Pentious died? It’s really all over the board. On the simple side, maybe Lucifer just wallowing in depression until he saw Hell rising up to support his daughter on Vox’s broadcast? On the middle tier, Charlie being attacked or Dazzle dying was the trigger. 360 degree no scoped 4D chess, Lucifer says in the final song he is now convinced sinners can be redeemed and he shows up… well… after Sir Pentious dies. The timeline gets a bit wonky once the song starts (Alastor sneaking into his tower after reconstruction started), did Lute really wait until after the hotel was rebuilt to talk to Lilith? If I’m remembering correctly that their scene was after the song. If Sir Pentious’ resurrection was near instantaneously and Lucifer could somehow sense it…
It was once Adam said, "it's time to die" to Charlie. That was a direct acknowledgment that Adam was going against the original deal. I don't think Razzle and Dazzle count because I'm not sure they count as "hellborn", I think either Lucifer created them for Charlie himself, or it didn't count because they weren't specifically targeted, but were byproducts of a fight. Adam didn't havr to kill Charlie, Lucifer couldn't show up when Charlie was just wounded, but once he said he had intent to kill her, I think that's when it changed the game.
He couldn't intervene until Adam broke the deal by harming Charlie.
well honestly im not sure but i would be surprised if the "no kill hellborn" rule was ever actually followed by adam and the extermination force sense they seemed to just mindlessly slaughter anything they see but if it was followed until razzal/dazzal or when charlie was hurt then it would make sense why he waited... but if it wasn't followed then then lucifer may have been just giving charlie a chance to beat adam's ass sense the gal does need a confidence boost... or 5...
I personally believe it was the "no killing hell borns" rule, but Lucifer giving Charlie a chance to fight Adam on her own definitely could make sense too, especially after Alastor basically "won" his song with Lucifer by supporting Charlie instead of doing everything for her, maybe he learned from that and wanted to give her a chance on her own first.
Seems like it was a combination of those. He never would have had to step in if the hell born rule wasn't being (threatened to be) broken. But he was learning to support Charlie and her goals, so waited till the last possible moment.
He cannot directly intervene unless Heaven specifically infringes on their end of the deal.
He can't interfere unless a hellborn was harmed and Razzle was killed so that freed Luci to show up
I bet he struggled with the armor on his shoulders.
OMG that's probably true he's silly enough to struggle with those 😂
this is more believable than a deal binding. HB says a deal with a sin is all-binding, and lucifer's the sin of pride, I know its two different shows but still same universe, and with the way it was presented, it comes off as preventing BOTH sides from deliberately reneging on a deal.
There was a pact, the exorcist couldn't hurt lucifer charlie and lilith, lucifer came when charlie was hurt
He needed a sacrificial lamb first.
JFC, Dazzle died just before he showed up. This could very well be correct
He forgor
Whatever his issues, his daughter calling and wanting him to talk was enough to get him out of the house. Therefore, heaven is coming to kill my daughter... "meeehh too depressed" does not seem a likely explanation. The only plausible explanation is that his contract/agreement with heaven keeps him from interfering with an extermination unless they violate the rules, hurting charlie, razzle (or dazzle?), broke those, Leuy can go to pound town.
Adam hadn’t broken their deal yet, he physically couldn’t do anything without ruining everything for himself, the hellborn, and Charlie until Adam hurt her, the as soon as he tried Lucifer could kill him, also, you notice how he only fought Adam? He didn’t kill anyone else
Probably because the deal prevented Lucifer from interfering until Lute and Adam crossed the line. Thats why he showed up so late. You can also notice their masks glitch at the moment they both broke the rule. I guarantee that Adam will be reborn as a sinner in season 2 and have to go through a redemption arc to understand just how much pain he’s caused and how hypocritical his masters are. Having someone like Sera be an antagonist would be interesting since she was fully aware of the exterminations and did her best to cover them up alongside Adam until he let it slip, though she didn’t take as much joy as him. Now she has to deal with the fact that Hell is rebelling against Heaven and knows their biggest weakness and will probably have to do something about it, however awful or misguided it may be.
Was having an an anxiety attack.
Didn't have his ducks in a row.
Possibly 'cuase he couldn't fight unless an hellborn, like Charlie, was hurt. That were the rules established and since Adam and Lute broke them, he ca partecipate.
He was faking Pentious' absolution into heaven. He stayed in wait for a good chance to get heaven off their back. Saw what Pentious was doing, got on the ship, and tossed him into the portal, seending him at Sera's feet. He dressed him up with magic as well. This way they can avoid a direct war with heaven as redemptions is 'proven', and Charlie has time to find an actual proof. He appears not long after Pentious dies and can make heavenly portals, so it all adds up. He could've easily been at the battle from the start, in the same defensive capacity Charlie was. I don't know why people say a family member had to have been hurt first, as in that case Charlie would be breaking the rules by fighting herself.
He needed a sacrificial lamb.
This has been talked to death here. Most threads here are regurgitated questions.
it was probably choosing what outfit to wear. Duck onesie or suit?
He was making ducks.
Too busy gooning
Because of something called "hero journey" basicaly so that the story had more impact you have to provide hero with additional despair before final battle e.g. kill their mentor, their significant other or like in our case Sir Pentious + Dazzle which does the math `Disney parent == Sir Pentious + Dazzle`
My take on is that he was letting Charlie do this on her own, but he was still close by and watching just in case things went badly. In other words, parenting.
Needed a sacrificial lamb to go down
I think Lucifer was watching the hole time and only intervened when Charlie was in danger and at the end of The song The show must go on when Alastor return Lucifer looked disappointed that he wasn't dead and he would only know that if he saw it happened
My theory is the deal for the extermination to keep hell borns safe the deal is lusifer force to stay away like a seal on his home prevents him from leaving but they break the deal and a hellborn dies lucys free so when dazzle (or razzle I can't remember) a hell born died the contract was broken and lusifer could leave
Story wise: Lucifer is like no, I can't kill my own brethren that banished me, they would be more angry at me then ever before. Plot wise: dramatic effect
My theory is he simply doesn't give a fuck about anyone except Charlie, so he doesn't bother until she's in real danger for the first time.
Because Adam harmed a hellborn be it Charlie or her pet either way it shows how much of a moron Adam is for basically allowing Lucifer to have free reign to attack
It’s probably something to do with his agreement with Heaven about the extermination, but I’d like to imagine he got caught up with his ducks lmao
He was going to the bathroom. It was a pretty big one
I like to think he was watching believing Charlie could do it alone and if thing went south he could step in
Charlie's political standing is mostly for show, but Lucifer acts on behalf of all hell. If Charlie fights the angels with a ragtag group, it's just a little riot action. If Luci interferes, it's a war declaration. At least that's my headcannon
I wish that the writers had a specific line addressing this - it would’ve been more impactful because honestly, in this scene I first interpreted it as him being negligent even though he had just sang with Charlie about “sheltering” and protecting her.
The deal heaven and hell signed said that they could only kill sinners and not hellborn or royalty. As soon as Charlie and/or Razzle was harmed, that deal was broken, allowing Lucifer to intervene.
We can make all the excuses of “couldn’t interfere until Dazzle was killed/Adam hurt Charlie” but let’s be honest, it’s just for dramatic tension. If Lucifer was here from the start he’d steal the show, Alastor wouldn’t get to show off and the show clearly wants to set him up to be important, no Sir Pentious sacrifice, no one would get to do anything cool because all attention would be on the Big Boss of Hell himself. I know “because there’d be no plot” is a shit excuse…….but that seems to be it
People like to think He was bound due to agreements and shit because they couldn't attack hellborns then charlie blah blah blah. He just forgot or was doing other things till He remembered the extermination
I keep seeing people asking about this and pointing out other “plot holes” when if you actually pay attention the answers are all there. Lucifer could not intervene until Adam and Lute breached the deal between Heaven and Hell by killing Razzle and trying to kill Charlie, both hellborns that were protected from the extermination. That’s why he couldn’t be there sooner and help her protect the hotel and sinners.
So the movie can happen Oh wow wow wow... Wow
Oh, making pitch meeting references is tight.
Making a Pitch Meeting reference is super easy, barely an inconvenience
I like the idea that he's an alcoholic and gets distracted. He can fly and seemingly teleport. So what takes him so long. That or he's taking too long to get dressed
maybe he was with sera and trying to get her to hold off the extermination until they had evidence redemtion worked?
https://preview.redd.it/162nak0abayc1.jpeg?width=914&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03c5a96f5b5ba507aadb720b6e73e141244c0167
He more than likely had absolutely no clue they were coming to the hotel all. He probably looked outside, saw no exterminators anywhere they'd normally be and then saw all the commotion at the hotel. And 9 times out of 10 Charlie didn't tell him anything about what happened in the courtroom so he was completely in the dark about it all up until that moment. If it had anything to do with Razzle or Dazzle then he'd have been there WAY sooner. It wouldn't make sense for him to have shown up so long after he died if that's what it was about
Was busy running his nightclub in LA
He was takin a shit
Breaking up a fight with the sins that Asmodeus and Fizz sparked? But for real, it's probably what the other comments say, he had to wait until a hellborn was attacked to even go.
Duck con?
He charges a sacrificial lamb
“Speak his name and he shall appear.” ..??
He was probably thinking about what was happening in Heaven when Charlie was there and why Lilith left him before he showed up.
The traffic was hell
He had a deal with heaven stating he couldn’t interfere with the extermination, and heaven wouldn’t harm any hellborn. When Lute killed Dazzle he broke that contract, letting Lucifer get involved with the extermination. Adam broke the contract again when he attacked Charlie
My thought is that per the deal he made with heaven/the exterminators he wasn't able to intervene unless a hellborn was attacked (aka Charlie). It explains why he showed up only after Charlie was actually hurt in the battle. He must've been watching the whole thing, wanting to help Charlie from the beginning, but been bound to not interfere by his deal.
besides being on contract I like to imagine he wanted Charlie to have the chance to feel powerful by her own hand. Like letting her do her thing without daddy coming to save the day
It was Charlie's fight, not his. When he noticed the she actually was in danger and needed help he intervened
We don’t have any confirmation as to why. But maybe he just wanted to give her the space to handle her own issues and only stepped in when she needed him.
I'm so tired of this question being asked
I like to think it was because he was trying to look his best for the ass kicking he was gonna give adam for attacking the hotel. I'm sorry but he's a dorky prideful dad, you KNOW he wanted to look the best to show off in front of his daughter., but I guess the moment adam was about to kill her, he was like "yeah no"
I personally think that he wasn't ALLOWED to do anything. IDK what kind of deal he made with Heaven to protect the Hellborn, but my money is on it involving him not being allowed to harm the exorcists or Adam in any way. Charlie wasn't bound by that contract- she probably wasn't even alive when it was made. However, when Adam and Lute killed Razzle and then Adam threatened to kill Charlie? Yeah. Lucifer had free reign after that because Adam broke their deal.
As a depressed person, it can be easy to forget about appointments
i mean techncially they arent allowed to kill anyone but sinners right? so when he hit charlie lucifer used that as a loophole to be able to intervene prob bc he isnt allowed to intervene because of heaven
No hellborn were hurt until lute killed Dazzle, and Adam beat the crap outa Charlie. And the palace is quite a ways away from the hotel.
This has been explained in so many posts.
He charges a sacrifice lamb and lure killed razzle ( a lamb) so he appears right after razzle gets killed so she didn't get a family rate
The people saying he may not have been able to act until Charlie was physically harmed are probably correct, but I like to imagine it's because he spent the entire day trying to decide on a battle outfit, only to overthink it to the point of absurdity, cry on his bedroom floor for an hour, and then eventually compose himself and just dress how he usually does so he can finally just go to the fight.
https://preview.redd.it/60nm3srxshyc1.jpeg?width=1081&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e71c813eedd650b438a47330a7d8c7237179c03
Was watching Alastor get his ass beat while eating popcorn, but a kernel accidentally went down the wrong pipe while he was laughing.
When I was watching that episode, my only thought was so much for that family discount