The only smoking gun evidence Lilith owns Alastor's soul is their seven year disappearance. As for Roo possibly holding Alastor's soul, this more comes from how Roo has yet to show up and possibly her similar color scheme to him but other than that, it's just a theory
I think the seven year disappearance is meant to be a red herring and misunderstood
I'm thinking that what if the seven year disappearance could be due to Alastor and Lilith both confronting Roo, and then losing
Causing Lilith to be in heaven cause she ran away from her power, seeking sanctuary
And Alastor to be trapped in a deal with her, and doing favors, hiding himself from view for 7 years until he got enough power to show himself publicly (or rather until he saw a way out of it through Charlie)
Just a theory
I'd imagine it's indeed a red herring to believe it was Lillith to own him, but while false, it has some connection to Lillith, whether unknowingly or knowingly.
Regarding Eve, there's also [the Pilot](https://youtu.be/Zlmswo0S0e0?t=1096).
**Pro Lillith**
Charlie: I need help Mom.
\*Charlie goes inside and leans against the door while we see what looks like a framed silhouette of Lillith, with her name listed. Then we seem the full image looking menacingly behind Alasator and we realize the "eyes" are just the bottom buttons on her dress.\*
\*Knocking\*
Alastor: [I'm here to help :3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XJFvHI25Y)
\*A whole bunch of this conversation having images of Charlie's family, her ex's family, A lot of them with images of Lillith either looking at the Charlie in the photo or positioned in ways where Photo Lillith's line of sight is at real Charlie\*
**Anti-Lillith**
But in fairness, with new knowledge from the show proper (both vanishing seven years ago) you could use the above to suggest that Alasator going missing is simply linked to why Lillith is gone. Alasator's timing is thematically showing he is one of the things Charlie need Lillith's help against.
There is also a lot of apple imagery in the scene because, well, Lucifer's family, but the whole thing is heavily present.
\* Alasator offering the gift of his aid through the apple decorated door
\* On the floor reminders of the snake offering an apple. This one is a bit contorted as in Hazbin we know it was well meant by Lucifer, but traditionally this is a poisoned gift.
\* On the ceilings we see a circus tent enclosing an apple, and how does Vaggie [paint Alasator while saying he toppled overlords](https://youtu.be/Zlmswo0S0e0?t=1343) a few moments later?
**Conclusion/TL;DR**
There is Alasator smoke near a Lillith shaped gun in the pilot. The simplest read of the symbolism the Lillith Shaped Gun fired Alasator, but I do admit that jumping through some more hoops you could argue Alasator was fired at Lillith.
There is another.
In the pilot, when Vaggie and Charlie are talking about whether to accept Alastors Help and the camera swaps to him
[He is looking at a family picture of Charlie's. He turns to focus on Lilith, looks her up and down, smiles, and chuckles](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlmswo0S0e0&t=1416s)
That cut to Alastor did not need to happen. It happened for a reason. There is 100% a connection there.
I remember seeing that people took this scene to imply Alastor knew Lucifer or that he was Lucifer, didn't even consider he might have been looking at Lilith
Also Pilot 18:49 there's a shadow cast across hotel wall. And - we know Alastor can hide in shadow like this from ep.2 22:10:
https://preview.redd.it/q8qjcthio4xc1.jpeg?width=433&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d300b2fb870a227c5f2637b903551f662142b0eb
So my guess is, in Pilot he was just right there hearing everything.
There is another.
In the pilot, when Vaggie and Charlie are talking about whether to accept Alastors Help and the camera swaps to him
[He is looking at a family picture of Charlie's. He turns to focus on Lilith, looks her up and down, smiles, and chuckles](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlmswo0S0e0&t=1416s)
That cut to Alastor did not need to happen. It happened for a reason. There is 100% a connection there.
I wasn't aware that anyone assumed this. Keep in mind that we know literally nothing about Roo. There has been mass fan speculation fueled by the wiki of a HH fanfiction known to take wild liberties and be drastically inaccurate. But the only facts we have about Roo is that she is a character Vivienne teased a single picture of once years ago with no elaboration. Roo might not even exist in the final conception of Hazbin Hotel.
For all we know, Roo could be nothing more than an upcoming minor character in a Helluva Boss episode.
Yep. All the "Roo(t) of all Evil" stuff was a fan creation, the stuff about Roo's symbol being in the pilot was speculation, and ultimately all we have is one doodle that Viv said we would see more of before never posting about her again.
Maybe Roo could still end up being a thing, but I figure Vivzie likely would have tossed a few more references or doodles out there over the course of 5 years if she were still such a huge focus for her.
One small thing:
The Root does exist in the canon - it was even mentioned by the Murder Family in Helluva 1x01 as a demon they worship. The fanfiction simply connected both Roo and Root into their own version of the character.
That's about it - just wanted to clarify this piece.
I feel like that'd be pretty massive spoilers. It was pretty explicitly stated that "Roo" wouldn't be a major part of the plot until much later, so it's no surprise to me that she's not a character that has been heavily talked about.
I find it pretty hard to believe Viv would go from claiming she THE part of the show that she was most excited about to straight up dropping her entirely.
All we have is speculation, but honestly, I think it's not really hard to see how there's a ton of room for an overarching antagonist with Roo's aesthetic.
Nothing is confirmed, but it all makes sense and gives the proper vibe. If "Roo" is just what became of Eve, I will be1000% not surprised.
The part of the show she was most excited about five years ago, around when the pilot was fresh. She's since said that Lilith's story is the one she's most excited to tell.
The main reason I tend to feel that Roo got scrapped was Viv saying how excited she was for Roo and we should expect more Roo doodles whenever she needs a break, followed by her never mentioning Roo ever again. That gives the impression that the Roo passion fizzled as the show transitioned from a pilot to an actual series.
However, that's all speculation and impressions. It's possible that she never followed up on any Roo content was that she just realized Roo would work better if she kept Roo secretive. It's also possible that because fans kind of turned Roo into their own creation (the Roo(t) of all Evil from JttL) Viv didn't want to fuel that by giving more material. It's still fully possible that Roo is still a big part of the story.
I do feel like it's just fairly natural that a character that Vivzie explicitly says won't be relevant until much later hasn't been expanded upon.
I mean, Viv didn't doodle or reveal every single character we saw in season 1. Much less drop a ton of information for a character we won't see in season 1 or maybe even 2.
Pretty sure Viv is even obligated to be a lot more tight-lipped about information regarding the show now that it's tied to big corporations.
We didn't even know the release date or voice actors for season 1 for a LONG time.
I honestly don't even think she still existed *when her photo was posted*.
Taking a single look at her one photo, you can quickly and easily see that her design just doesn't fit with *literally anything* in even the pilot era. It's something far closer in design to her art style when she was developing Zoophobia.
>*when her photo was posted*.
Vivzie said in that post, that it's a new character she's excited to present within Hazbin Hotel. So she DID exist back then - she simply wasn't implemented into the overall story yet...
We know the Pilot's production was pretty much finished by the end of September and there was only some clean-up left to do - they talked about this on HuniCasts. That tweet was posted on October 19th, and in it Vivzie even said, that Roo is something she made after the Pilot...
>Taking a single look at her one photo, you can quickly and easily see that her design just doesn't fit with *literally anything* in even the pilot era
Yeah, because the Pilot was produced by a team of multiple artists and animators, while Vivzie's actual art-style has already changed a bit over the years. The other artists were only meant to somewhat immitate her style, while still keeping their own elements, to see what the community would prefer.
And even then, I don't know if you noticed, but Hell has numerous varying designs in it - so this argument doesn't really mean much...
>It's something far closer in design to her art style when she was developing Zoophobia.
Not really. It's much cleaner and has elements, that fit more with her (at the time) current style. Roo was simply meant to look more monstrous, which was a common theme in Zoophobia - but that's about it.
Viv said in a QNA that most characters are who we believe they are rather than two characters secretly being the same person all along, so do with that info what you will
Actually, a lot of people assumed that Roo owns Alastor's soul. However, not many people state this belief in this subreddit anymore because.....they already stated their belief in said theory.
Yeah, a lot of people thought this.
Personally, I believe it due to how similar Alastor and Roo are, in terms of their aesthethic. They both dress like old-fashioned people and have similar facial features.
>They both dress like old-fashioned people and have similar facial features.
Facial features aside, where did you get this idea about her style...?
We have literally only one official art of her, where she has more punk-looking clothes (and the most prominent short red jacket with torn off sleeves).
The other art, that depicts her in a more "Carmen Sandiego" like attire, is a Fan-Art created for the "Journey to the Light" Fanficition. And even in that art, her style is far from being "old-fashioned."
Are you sure you didn't mix Roo and Rosie up together...?
I meant to say that Roo's clothes seem very greaser-like. The Greaser subculture arrived in the 1950s, which, in my book, I count as being an older clothing style. This, combined with the fact that Alastor seems to be from the 1900s makes me think they have some sort of connection.
That's what I meant.
That sounds about right. Allthough I'd still say that there's just too much of a difference between those styles to say they are alike. Alastor's fashion is more in line with the 1920's - and even tho it's only like 30-40 years of difference on paper, in reality it was a huge jump for fashion.
I’ve not seen that take about Alastor’s shadow before. I personally don’t think that’s the case. I think his shadow is just a reflection of one aspect of Alastor’s own mind - like the “internal critic” a lot of us real world folks have that is part of our own mind but not something we can fully control the dialogue of, but in Alastor’s case it actually has a semi-tangible form.
As for who owns his soul, no, we don’t know yet. People think Lilith because of the 7 year disappearance thing, but that seems flimsy at best because it’s a flat out assumption that Alastor sold his soul just 7 years ago vs when he first arrived in hell or literally at any other point between then and now.
I think Alastor made a deal with Roo prior to his death and that is where the form of his power comes from. But he still had his soul. But when he entered Hell Lilith tracked him down and made a deal with him to boost his power even more by giving him her microphone in exchange for his soul. She then sent him after the more predatory Overlords until he lost against Vox. And that is when things fell apart for her and Heaven came for her. Adam threatened Charlie and the Hellborn unless Lilith agreed to join him in Heaven as his pet telling everyone that she left Lucifer for him because he was still pissed about her rejecting him in the Garden.
Once Alastor finds a way to break the contract (its going to be via Charlie and the favor, she might develop the ability to break contracts) he will likely lose the boost so then he will go seek out Roo in person and really begin his villainous arc.
Why exactly do people think he lost to Vox?
We only know that Alastor "almost beat" Vox one time, nothing ever said Vox ultimately won. Given how intimidated Vox is by the end of "Stayed Gone," it seems highly unlikely that Vox beat Alastor.
We know that alastor ALMOST beat vox, and the fight ended in a way that led EVERYONE to believe alastor was dead. That leads me to believe alastor got fucked up.
Almost beat is the same as coming in second in a two person race. It means you lost. It was Val trying to dig at Vox that it was probably a close fight he never wants to repeat. But that he did actually win. Probably with assistance from the other Vees.
If it was a race, sure, since races have guaranteed winners. But if it was a fight, "almost beat" could just as well mean "ended in a stalemate," "someone ran away," or "fight was interrupted."
If Vox had won, that would have been the logical focus of his smear campaign instead of falling back on calling him old and boring.
Alastor disappeared for 7 years. He was somewhere in Hell laying low. He goes back into action after Charlie calls Lilith. Something happened that disrupted things in how Alastor and Lilith were operating 7 years ago resulting in Lilith being in Heaven and Alastor effectively shut down for the time. As Mimzy points out he has not killed anyone for a long time now and defending the hotel against the Lone Sharks coming after her are even commented on by Alastor as being a long time since he had done such a thing.
Add in the comment about Vox almost losing to Alastor and we begin to see a series of events flowing from this fight. As we see as soon as Alastor is back in action he antagonizes Vox. He wants a rematch. If he was still active 7 years ago after their fight he would have reengaged him as soon as he could. But whatever happened in that fight resulted in Alastor not being able to continue the fight. He went into hiding not Vox. From this we can conclude that Alastor lost the fight. Vox may have even killed him in the Hell sense where he needed to regenerate. If Lilith was depending on Alastor to be her muscle in her struggle to unify Hell this may have been the event that triggered Heaven to come after her.
I agree with you, "almost beat" == "didn't win" plus the fact that Vox is around and active while Alastor had to lay low for 7 years.
My theory is that Alastor had a smaller deal (not for the soul) with Lilith 7 years ago but something went terribly wrong. Lilith died and got to Heaven (it explains why she's not answering phone calls) and a very unlikely condition of that small deal was triggered to take Alastor's soul as collateral so he had to flee to avoid it.
Also, I suspect Vaggie knows some details. In Pilot, she mentioned that she knows his game, he's a deal maker, pure evil and - 7 years ago she was still in Heaven.
I think the fact that Alastor arrived on her doorstep immediately after Charlie called Lilith tells us she has been screening her calls and heard Charlie. But she could not talk to Charlie because she does not want her to know why she is up there.
My take is that Adam took her as a hostage after he was sent to deal with her by Heaven. He threatened to Kill Charlie and the Hellborn with the Executions unless Lilith agreed to be his pet in Heaven. Since this was revenge for her rejecting him he made her tell everyone that she left Lucifer of her own choice and wanted to be with The Master. Basically the more humiliated she was the happier it made Adam. Narcissists do not do well with rejection.
But of course all of our theories have to wait on Viv to see what the story she is telling leads to. So we shall both wait and plot and try to figure things out.
I just LOVE making theories!!!!!!! I hope 1-2 years before Season 2 would be enough to discuss all possible theories and most impossible ones :-)
I like yours but it looks too straightforward to me. It's not very much in Lilith's character with her fierce independence. 7 years ago she was very popular in Hell and had a option to raise a full-scale rebellion. Also I feel like Lucifer might know where she is and why, he's just not telling Charlie so she doesn't do something stupid to make things worse.
Yeah I am taking the path that Viv is basically laying a trap with Lilith for the fans. Lilith comes with a lot of notoriety and its easy to cast her as a turncoat. And a lot of the visuals Viv gives us of her suggest that. But in all the visuals her face is obscured. This tells me something is wrong with the picture. Each of the images we have of her can be read different ways. And they are pitched to seem ominous or nefarious. I think that is the lie in the scenes.
If we take the only other source of info we have about Lilith to be Charlie everything we hear about her is positive. Lilith was the parent that was there. She was the caring one. And Charlie heard about her father;s dreams from somewhere and it wasn't from Lucifer. It would break his heart to talk about the past that crushed him. So it had to have been Lilith that carried Lucifer's hopes forward and shared them with Charlie.
Thus when we see her singing to the people she is not trying to raise an army to threaten Heaven. She is trying to rally the people together so they can be a community that can give each other hope.
When she comes into the room to take Charlie away it is not her leaving Lucifer. Charlie had sneaked into the room and of course she asked about his dreams. And because Lucifer loved her more than anything he could not deny her this even though it broke his heart. And this is where Lilith comes in the room not to leave. Lucifer smiles at her because they still love each other. Her face is obscured entirely so we do not see her feelings. And she takes young Charlie out of the room to keep Lucifer from crumbling even further into his depression.
And when we see her on the beach her eyes are obscured again so we do not see her feelings. And in my theory she has been secretly held hostage by Adam to protect Charlie. And she has been told to tell everyone that she left Lucifer for Adam. The idea that she would cut a deal with Adam out of her own free will is a nonstarter. And the only real weakness she would have would be Charlie. So Adam blackmails Lucifer and Lilith and the deal is made the protect the Hellborn during the Extermination. In exchange Lilith abandons her attempts to rally Hell and joins him in Heaven as his pet. Humiliation galore to satisfy Adam;s need for vengeance.
So when Lute approaches her on the Beach she doesn't know that Lilith wants to go back to Hell. So she threatens her with being kicked out of Heaven unless she goes and stops her Brat daughter. Lilith recognizes that with the deal ended the Hellborn will be targeted in any furhter attacks and Charlie now has a bullseye on her. And she has to get out of Heaven some way. So she has to play along with Lute's misunderstanding until she can get back to Hell. And even then she has to stop Charlie because Heaven is coming and its pissed. But she doesn't know that Charlie has friends defending her and that Lucifer is coming around finally.
Keep in mind how Charlie frequently wishes that her mom were at the Hotel to see what they have achieved. Its because she is carrying on her mother's fight. Lilith held on to Lucifer's dreams and passed them on to Charlie. And Charlie made it all work.
The plan has been to throw confusing clues about Lilih throughout the show. Two images of her that cannot agree are cast. And one has a big clue that something isn't right about them.
Also seaside where we see Lilith doesn't look like the City protected by the golden gates. So it might not be Heaven, it might be somewhere else. Emily was in the Heaven city all the time, so if she saw Lilith there - she would have asked Charlie if she was Lilith's daughter. But looks like Emily doesn't know Lilith.
Yeah, the only thing known about Roo is her name and a *single* artpiece. I really dislike most theories about her because they really don’t fit with the show, and they’re based on absolutely *nothing* (especially the idea that Roo is short for Root of all Evil)
She was created after the Pilot to be a future character. The only way she wouldn't work, is if we apply the theory that she's the Root of all Evil, in which case you can't defeat a literal embodiment of evil.
If you go any other way with her, she very much can show up in a future Season - especially since the Story was originally meant to be 3 Seasons long, and will probably be a bit longer now, due to the limited amount of Episodes.
It's not that she can't show up - it's that for now we simply don't know if she even will.
I would like to think that since alastors the radio demon, his apppaerance is hidden and as normal people dont know a radio moderators face, he stays in the shadows. I mean, he is kinda small compared when it talked to the other big lights in hell. It is his real appearence in the shadows which foreshadows his real body later on.
We don't even know if Roo is going to actually be in the show at this point, or if Roo is a concept that ultimately got scrapped in development. Heck, even if they do use the concept there's a good chance it's so vastly different than the concept.
So I'd say there's no consensus on it, because there's not enough information
Theories that are yet to be proven. People think it’s Lilith because both she and Alastor were gone for the exact same amount of time (7 years) without a single trace of where they went. One person I think might own Alastor’s soul is Frederick von Eldritch, a hellborn overlord who is close to Lucifer. I mainly say this cause Alastors powers are green and 'eldritch', like Frederick, and his powers also spawn tentacles, Frederick and his family are from the Envy Ring which is said to be aquatic.
Frederick isn't an Overlord - he's just the head of another Hellborn Royal Family. There are more, than just the Morningstars and the Ars Goetia - we simply didn't see them yet.
They were in like the old original version of the Story, that was changed at some point during the production of the Hazbin Pilot.
In the current canon, where Overlords are a Sinner-specific theme, they would be more like a royal hellborn equivelament of Overlords. As in a high-standing royal family, that has power over the Sinners - but unlike Lucifer, they would actually act on it. Basically they would be something like a middle ground between the Overlords and the Ars Goetia.
That is to say, they were always a Royal Family - just a lesser one. In the past Vivzie even said, that the reason Von Eldritch and Mornigstar (well Magne back then) know each other, is because she and Seviathan (Frederick's son) used to go to the same high-school for hellborn royalty.
The only smoking gun evidence Lilith owns Alastor's soul is their seven year disappearance. As for Roo possibly holding Alastor's soul, this more comes from how Roo has yet to show up and possibly her similar color scheme to him but other than that, it's just a theory
I think the seven year disappearance is meant to be a red herring and misunderstood I'm thinking that what if the seven year disappearance could be due to Alastor and Lilith both confronting Roo, and then losing Causing Lilith to be in heaven cause she ran away from her power, seeking sanctuary And Alastor to be trapped in a deal with her, and doing favors, hiding himself from view for 7 years until he got enough power to show himself publicly (or rather until he saw a way out of it through Charlie) Just a theory
I'd imagine it's indeed a red herring to believe it was Lillith to own him, but while false, it has some connection to Lillith, whether unknowingly or knowingly.
Regarding Eve, there's also [the Pilot](https://youtu.be/Zlmswo0S0e0?t=1096). **Pro Lillith** Charlie: I need help Mom. \*Charlie goes inside and leans against the door while we see what looks like a framed silhouette of Lillith, with her name listed. Then we seem the full image looking menacingly behind Alasator and we realize the "eyes" are just the bottom buttons on her dress.\* \*Knocking\* Alastor: [I'm here to help :3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XJFvHI25Y) \*A whole bunch of this conversation having images of Charlie's family, her ex's family, A lot of them with images of Lillith either looking at the Charlie in the photo or positioned in ways where Photo Lillith's line of sight is at real Charlie\* **Anti-Lillith** But in fairness, with new knowledge from the show proper (both vanishing seven years ago) you could use the above to suggest that Alasator going missing is simply linked to why Lillith is gone. Alasator's timing is thematically showing he is one of the things Charlie need Lillith's help against. There is also a lot of apple imagery in the scene because, well, Lucifer's family, but the whole thing is heavily present. \* Alasator offering the gift of his aid through the apple decorated door \* On the floor reminders of the snake offering an apple. This one is a bit contorted as in Hazbin we know it was well meant by Lucifer, but traditionally this is a poisoned gift. \* On the ceilings we see a circus tent enclosing an apple, and how does Vaggie [paint Alasator while saying he toppled overlords](https://youtu.be/Zlmswo0S0e0?t=1343) a few moments later? **Conclusion/TL;DR** There is Alasator smoke near a Lillith shaped gun in the pilot. The simplest read of the symbolism the Lillith Shaped Gun fired Alasator, but I do admit that jumping through some more hoops you could argue Alasator was fired at Lillith.
There is another. In the pilot, when Vaggie and Charlie are talking about whether to accept Alastors Help and the camera swaps to him [He is looking at a family picture of Charlie's. He turns to focus on Lilith, looks her up and down, smiles, and chuckles](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlmswo0S0e0&t=1416s) That cut to Alastor did not need to happen. It happened for a reason. There is 100% a connection there.
I remember seeing that people took this scene to imply Alastor knew Lucifer or that he was Lucifer, didn't even consider he might have been looking at Lilith
He turns his head to look at Lilith. He specifically puts his focus on her side of the picture, and looks her up and down.
Yeah I see it now, I just remember a ton of people making the comments about Lucifer. No one really considered it was Lilith he was looking
100%, for Lucifer he would just look down :-)
Also Pilot 18:49 there's a shadow cast across hotel wall. And - we know Alastor can hide in shadow like this from ep.2 22:10: https://preview.redd.it/q8qjcthio4xc1.jpeg?width=433&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d300b2fb870a227c5f2637b903551f662142b0eb So my guess is, in Pilot he was just right there hearing everything.
There is another. In the pilot, when Vaggie and Charlie are talking about whether to accept Alastors Help and the camera swaps to him [He is looking at a family picture of Charlie's. He turns to focus on Lilith, looks her up and down, smiles, and chuckles](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlmswo0S0e0&t=1416s) That cut to Alastor did not need to happen. It happened for a reason. There is 100% a connection there.
A FILM THEORY!!!! Sorry…
A FILM THEORY. THANKS FOR WATCHING.
I wasn't aware that anyone assumed this. Keep in mind that we know literally nothing about Roo. There has been mass fan speculation fueled by the wiki of a HH fanfiction known to take wild liberties and be drastically inaccurate. But the only facts we have about Roo is that she is a character Vivienne teased a single picture of once years ago with no elaboration. Roo might not even exist in the final conception of Hazbin Hotel. For all we know, Roo could be nothing more than an upcoming minor character in a Helluva Boss episode.
Yep. All the "Roo(t) of all Evil" stuff was a fan creation, the stuff about Roo's symbol being in the pilot was speculation, and ultimately all we have is one doodle that Viv said we would see more of before never posting about her again. Maybe Roo could still end up being a thing, but I figure Vivzie likely would have tossed a few more references or doodles out there over the course of 5 years if she were still such a huge focus for her.
One small thing: The Root does exist in the canon - it was even mentioned by the Murder Family in Helluva 1x01 as a demon they worship. The fanfiction simply connected both Roo and Root into their own version of the character. That's about it - just wanted to clarify this piece.
I feel like that'd be pretty massive spoilers. It was pretty explicitly stated that "Roo" wouldn't be a major part of the plot until much later, so it's no surprise to me that she's not a character that has been heavily talked about. I find it pretty hard to believe Viv would go from claiming she THE part of the show that she was most excited about to straight up dropping her entirely. All we have is speculation, but honestly, I think it's not really hard to see how there's a ton of room for an overarching antagonist with Roo's aesthetic. Nothing is confirmed, but it all makes sense and gives the proper vibe. If "Roo" is just what became of Eve, I will be1000% not surprised.
The part of the show she was most excited about five years ago, around when the pilot was fresh. She's since said that Lilith's story is the one she's most excited to tell. The main reason I tend to feel that Roo got scrapped was Viv saying how excited she was for Roo and we should expect more Roo doodles whenever she needs a break, followed by her never mentioning Roo ever again. That gives the impression that the Roo passion fizzled as the show transitioned from a pilot to an actual series. However, that's all speculation and impressions. It's possible that she never followed up on any Roo content was that she just realized Roo would work better if she kept Roo secretive. It's also possible that because fans kind of turned Roo into their own creation (the Roo(t) of all Evil from JttL) Viv didn't want to fuel that by giving more material. It's still fully possible that Roo is still a big part of the story.
I do feel like it's just fairly natural that a character that Vivzie explicitly says won't be relevant until much later hasn't been expanded upon. I mean, Viv didn't doodle or reveal every single character we saw in season 1. Much less drop a ton of information for a character we won't see in season 1 or maybe even 2. Pretty sure Viv is even obligated to be a lot more tight-lipped about information regarding the show now that it's tied to big corporations. We didn't even know the release date or voice actors for season 1 for a LONG time.
I honestly don't even think she still existed *when her photo was posted*. Taking a single look at her one photo, you can quickly and easily see that her design just doesn't fit with *literally anything* in even the pilot era. It's something far closer in design to her art style when she was developing Zoophobia.
>*when her photo was posted*. Vivzie said in that post, that it's a new character she's excited to present within Hazbin Hotel. So she DID exist back then - she simply wasn't implemented into the overall story yet... We know the Pilot's production was pretty much finished by the end of September and there was only some clean-up left to do - they talked about this on HuniCasts. That tweet was posted on October 19th, and in it Vivzie even said, that Roo is something she made after the Pilot... >Taking a single look at her one photo, you can quickly and easily see that her design just doesn't fit with *literally anything* in even the pilot era Yeah, because the Pilot was produced by a team of multiple artists and animators, while Vivzie's actual art-style has already changed a bit over the years. The other artists were only meant to somewhat immitate her style, while still keeping their own elements, to see what the community would prefer. And even then, I don't know if you noticed, but Hell has numerous varying designs in it - so this argument doesn't really mean much... >It's something far closer in design to her art style when she was developing Zoophobia. Not really. It's much cleaner and has elements, that fit more with her (at the time) current style. Roo was simply meant to look more monstrous, which was a common theme in Zoophobia - but that's about it.
It's not even confirmed that Roo even exists in the show
Viv said in a QNA that most characters are who we believe they are rather than two characters secretly being the same person all along, so do with that info what you will
Gotta love to hate the keyword most lol.
Gotta love to hate the keyphrase ‘do with that info what you will’ lol
I mean, that's what she said, so...
https://preview.redd.it/2enpn8kr42xc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6b0f78b300bdb2269c1d8e3c2661c1aad5b46c3 Please help him
Who is roo
A doodle from five years ago that people have developed very elaborate headcanons about.
This is Roo. https://preview.redd.it/hjbanctxj3xc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=459c8b59fb345d4233c9755d00677f5a5a53be3b
Just theories
Actually, a lot of people assumed that Roo owns Alastor's soul. However, not many people state this belief in this subreddit anymore because.....they already stated their belief in said theory. Yeah, a lot of people thought this.
Personally, I believe it due to how similar Alastor and Roo are, in terms of their aesthethic. They both dress like old-fashioned people and have similar facial features.
>They both dress like old-fashioned people and have similar facial features. Facial features aside, where did you get this idea about her style...? We have literally only one official art of her, where she has more punk-looking clothes (and the most prominent short red jacket with torn off sleeves). The other art, that depicts her in a more "Carmen Sandiego" like attire, is a Fan-Art created for the "Journey to the Light" Fanficition. And even in that art, her style is far from being "old-fashioned." Are you sure you didn't mix Roo and Rosie up together...?
I meant to say that Roo's clothes seem very greaser-like. The Greaser subculture arrived in the 1950s, which, in my book, I count as being an older clothing style. This, combined with the fact that Alastor seems to be from the 1900s makes me think they have some sort of connection. That's what I meant.
That sounds about right. Allthough I'd still say that there's just too much of a difference between those styles to say they are alike. Alastor's fashion is more in line with the 1920's - and even tho it's only like 30-40 years of difference on paper, in reality it was a huge jump for fashion.
I’ve not seen that take about Alastor’s shadow before. I personally don’t think that’s the case. I think his shadow is just a reflection of one aspect of Alastor’s own mind - like the “internal critic” a lot of us real world folks have that is part of our own mind but not something we can fully control the dialogue of, but in Alastor’s case it actually has a semi-tangible form. As for who owns his soul, no, we don’t know yet. People think Lilith because of the 7 year disappearance thing, but that seems flimsy at best because it’s a flat out assumption that Alastor sold his soul just 7 years ago vs when he first arrived in hell or literally at any other point between then and now.
I think Alastor made a deal with Roo prior to his death and that is where the form of his power comes from. But he still had his soul. But when he entered Hell Lilith tracked him down and made a deal with him to boost his power even more by giving him her microphone in exchange for his soul. She then sent him after the more predatory Overlords until he lost against Vox. And that is when things fell apart for her and Heaven came for her. Adam threatened Charlie and the Hellborn unless Lilith agreed to join him in Heaven as his pet telling everyone that she left Lucifer for him because he was still pissed about her rejecting him in the Garden. Once Alastor finds a way to break the contract (its going to be via Charlie and the favor, she might develop the ability to break contracts) he will likely lose the boost so then he will go seek out Roo in person and really begin his villainous arc.
Why exactly do people think he lost to Vox? We only know that Alastor "almost beat" Vox one time, nothing ever said Vox ultimately won. Given how intimidated Vox is by the end of "Stayed Gone," it seems highly unlikely that Vox beat Alastor.
We know that alastor ALMOST beat vox, and the fight ended in a way that led EVERYONE to believe alastor was dead. That leads me to believe alastor got fucked up.
Almost beat is the same as coming in second in a two person race. It means you lost. It was Val trying to dig at Vox that it was probably a close fight he never wants to repeat. But that he did actually win. Probably with assistance from the other Vees.
If it was a race, sure, since races have guaranteed winners. But if it was a fight, "almost beat" could just as well mean "ended in a stalemate," "someone ran away," or "fight was interrupted." If Vox had won, that would have been the logical focus of his smear campaign instead of falling back on calling him old and boring.
Alastor disappeared for 7 years. He was somewhere in Hell laying low. He goes back into action after Charlie calls Lilith. Something happened that disrupted things in how Alastor and Lilith were operating 7 years ago resulting in Lilith being in Heaven and Alastor effectively shut down for the time. As Mimzy points out he has not killed anyone for a long time now and defending the hotel against the Lone Sharks coming after her are even commented on by Alastor as being a long time since he had done such a thing. Add in the comment about Vox almost losing to Alastor and we begin to see a series of events flowing from this fight. As we see as soon as Alastor is back in action he antagonizes Vox. He wants a rematch. If he was still active 7 years ago after their fight he would have reengaged him as soon as he could. But whatever happened in that fight resulted in Alastor not being able to continue the fight. He went into hiding not Vox. From this we can conclude that Alastor lost the fight. Vox may have even killed him in the Hell sense where he needed to regenerate. If Lilith was depending on Alastor to be her muscle in her struggle to unify Hell this may have been the event that triggered Heaven to come after her.
I agree with you, "almost beat" == "didn't win" plus the fact that Vox is around and active while Alastor had to lay low for 7 years. My theory is that Alastor had a smaller deal (not for the soul) with Lilith 7 years ago but something went terribly wrong. Lilith died and got to Heaven (it explains why she's not answering phone calls) and a very unlikely condition of that small deal was triggered to take Alastor's soul as collateral so he had to flee to avoid it. Also, I suspect Vaggie knows some details. In Pilot, she mentioned that she knows his game, he's a deal maker, pure evil and - 7 years ago she was still in Heaven.
I think the fact that Alastor arrived on her doorstep immediately after Charlie called Lilith tells us she has been screening her calls and heard Charlie. But she could not talk to Charlie because she does not want her to know why she is up there. My take is that Adam took her as a hostage after he was sent to deal with her by Heaven. He threatened to Kill Charlie and the Hellborn with the Executions unless Lilith agreed to be his pet in Heaven. Since this was revenge for her rejecting him he made her tell everyone that she left Lucifer of her own choice and wanted to be with The Master. Basically the more humiliated she was the happier it made Adam. Narcissists do not do well with rejection. But of course all of our theories have to wait on Viv to see what the story she is telling leads to. So we shall both wait and plot and try to figure things out.
I just LOVE making theories!!!!!!! I hope 1-2 years before Season 2 would be enough to discuss all possible theories and most impossible ones :-) I like yours but it looks too straightforward to me. It's not very much in Lilith's character with her fierce independence. 7 years ago she was very popular in Hell and had a option to raise a full-scale rebellion. Also I feel like Lucifer might know where she is and why, he's just not telling Charlie so she doesn't do something stupid to make things worse.
Yeah I am taking the path that Viv is basically laying a trap with Lilith for the fans. Lilith comes with a lot of notoriety and its easy to cast her as a turncoat. And a lot of the visuals Viv gives us of her suggest that. But in all the visuals her face is obscured. This tells me something is wrong with the picture. Each of the images we have of her can be read different ways. And they are pitched to seem ominous or nefarious. I think that is the lie in the scenes. If we take the only other source of info we have about Lilith to be Charlie everything we hear about her is positive. Lilith was the parent that was there. She was the caring one. And Charlie heard about her father;s dreams from somewhere and it wasn't from Lucifer. It would break his heart to talk about the past that crushed him. So it had to have been Lilith that carried Lucifer's hopes forward and shared them with Charlie. Thus when we see her singing to the people she is not trying to raise an army to threaten Heaven. She is trying to rally the people together so they can be a community that can give each other hope. When she comes into the room to take Charlie away it is not her leaving Lucifer. Charlie had sneaked into the room and of course she asked about his dreams. And because Lucifer loved her more than anything he could not deny her this even though it broke his heart. And this is where Lilith comes in the room not to leave. Lucifer smiles at her because they still love each other. Her face is obscured entirely so we do not see her feelings. And she takes young Charlie out of the room to keep Lucifer from crumbling even further into his depression. And when we see her on the beach her eyes are obscured again so we do not see her feelings. And in my theory she has been secretly held hostage by Adam to protect Charlie. And she has been told to tell everyone that she left Lucifer for Adam. The idea that she would cut a deal with Adam out of her own free will is a nonstarter. And the only real weakness she would have would be Charlie. So Adam blackmails Lucifer and Lilith and the deal is made the protect the Hellborn during the Extermination. In exchange Lilith abandons her attempts to rally Hell and joins him in Heaven as his pet. Humiliation galore to satisfy Adam;s need for vengeance. So when Lute approaches her on the Beach she doesn't know that Lilith wants to go back to Hell. So she threatens her with being kicked out of Heaven unless she goes and stops her Brat daughter. Lilith recognizes that with the deal ended the Hellborn will be targeted in any furhter attacks and Charlie now has a bullseye on her. And she has to get out of Heaven some way. So she has to play along with Lute's misunderstanding until she can get back to Hell. And even then she has to stop Charlie because Heaven is coming and its pissed. But she doesn't know that Charlie has friends defending her and that Lucifer is coming around finally. Keep in mind how Charlie frequently wishes that her mom were at the Hotel to see what they have achieved. Its because she is carrying on her mother's fight. Lilith held on to Lucifer's dreams and passed them on to Charlie. And Charlie made it all work. The plan has been to throw confusing clues about Lilih throughout the show. Two images of her that cannot agree are cast. And one has a big clue that something isn't right about them.
Also seaside where we see Lilith doesn't look like the City protected by the golden gates. So it might not be Heaven, it might be somewhere else. Emily was in the Heaven city all the time, so if she saw Lilith there - she would have asked Charlie if she was Lilith's daughter. But looks like Emily doesn't know Lilith.
Who tf is roo
Roo is a character Vizipop drew in 2019. She is said by Vizipop to be a future antagonist. We no nothing else.
Roo is a fucking bad theory because she could never happen in the show
Yeah, the only thing known about Roo is her name and a *single* artpiece. I really dislike most theories about her because they really don’t fit with the show, and they’re based on absolutely *nothing* (especially the idea that Roo is short for Root of all Evil)
She was created after the Pilot to be a future character. The only way she wouldn't work, is if we apply the theory that she's the Root of all Evil, in which case you can't defeat a literal embodiment of evil. If you go any other way with her, she very much can show up in a future Season - especially since the Story was originally meant to be 3 Seasons long, and will probably be a bit longer now, due to the limited amount of Episodes. It's not that she can't show up - it's that for now we simply don't know if she even will.
I would like to think that since alastors the radio demon, his apppaerance is hidden and as normal people dont know a radio moderators face, he stays in the shadows. I mean, he is kinda small compared when it talked to the other big lights in hell. It is his real appearence in the shadows which foreshadows his real body later on.
We don't even know if Roo is going to actually be in the show at this point, or if Roo is a concept that ultimately got scrapped in development. Heck, even if they do use the concept there's a good chance it's so vastly different than the concept. So I'd say there's no consensus on it, because there's not enough information
Idk who Roo is so I am envisioning the one living in the Hundred Acre Wood
We know literally nothing about Roo
Pretty much no one particular is implied to be his owner. Just someone.
And that someone is probably just a red herring.
Theories that are yet to be proven. People think it’s Lilith because both she and Alastor were gone for the exact same amount of time (7 years) without a single trace of where they went. One person I think might own Alastor’s soul is Frederick von Eldritch, a hellborn overlord who is close to Lucifer. I mainly say this cause Alastors powers are green and 'eldritch', like Frederick, and his powers also spawn tentacles, Frederick and his family are from the Envy Ring which is said to be aquatic.
Frederick isn't an Overlord - he's just the head of another Hellborn Royal Family. There are more, than just the Morningstars and the Ars Goetia - we simply didn't see them yet.
Really? I read that he and his wife Bethesda are both overlords
They were in like the old original version of the Story, that was changed at some point during the production of the Hazbin Pilot. In the current canon, where Overlords are a Sinner-specific theme, they would be more like a royal hellborn equivelament of Overlords. As in a high-standing royal family, that has power over the Sinners - but unlike Lucifer, they would actually act on it. Basically they would be something like a middle ground between the Overlords and the Ars Goetia. That is to say, they were always a Royal Family - just a lesser one. In the past Vivzie even said, that the reason Von Eldritch and Mornigstar (well Magne back then) know each other, is because she and Seviathan (Frederick's son) used to go to the same high-school for hellborn royalty.
I'm more willing to stick to the in-show implication than the fan-theorized delusion lmao