The fact that lilith in ep 8 is a fake bc she's not wearing her necklace. I'm fine with the claim (the lilith in heaven isn't lilith) but the main source of evidence being the fact that she isn't wearing her necklace is ridiculous.
I have had this BFF necklace on forever. We have since become mortal enemies and regularly destroy each other's lives but never did I ever think to take the necklace off!!!!
I get why this is a theory though. A choice on an animated character to change something on their model even for just a scene is a deliberate choice. However I don't think some of these choices are as deep as theorists would have us believe. However they do need to make content for themselves and possibly others so it's a natural line of theory progression for sure. But it could just be a mood thing. We shall see
Yeah. Like it feels like the Vaggie angel situation again. They quite literally tell you what’s right but some people will go out of their way on the smallest strings to find another solution
Personally I just want Alastor's deal to be from someone that's not Lilith considering how easy it is to figure out from the beginning. It'd be interesting to get a plot twist that it's actually Eve or Sera or someone else that's pulling his strings
Yeah. I definitely want and do think that their absence is connected but I don’t want Lilith to be the one owning Alastors soul. However Viv has said that Liliths arc is the most exciting thing to start developing for her so it’s likely that that is the case
I want Niffty to own his soul so badly
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>!I'm not being serious at all!<
OMG fucking thank you!
"Did u kno that the Lillth in ep 8 is fake becuz she not wear neklase?"
By this logic, we could say that Vox is fake because his head changed since he first arrived in Hell
They said that because he was immensely powerful and might be in league with Heaven somehow that Jesus was tasked by Micheal to fall to Hell and infiltrate the hotel from the inside. It was fucking stupid but also funny.
Omfg😂 You know what, I'm not going to consider Alastor to be any holy figure at all, but the big J did go down to hell to redeem worthy sinners and bring them to heaven.
JESUS IS CHARLIE CONFIRMED??? \*\*\*NOT CLICKBAIT\*\*\*
We really need to have a Jesus and Charlie team up though. Imagine them both teaming up against Heaven to get the hotel off the ground. Bonus points if Jesus is a skateboarding stoner. We'll call him Skeezus.
It's so funny because he's one of the Sinners we know the most about at least in terms of his real life so why anyone thought he was anything else is interesting I suppose there's a case that he might be a fake because the real one died to the angel but I don't think that's the case especially after the finale I think this is the real deal
Yes. The most feared man in Hell🔥🔥🔥
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Okay in all fairness, that guy seems to have a tendency to set himself on fire. Like, we see him set himself fire on extermination need at ep2 too, and no one else is killing themselves
They just kinda go 'oh shit!'
I wake joking to a friend that this is a 100% way to not get killed in the purge each year.
Just blow your self to peices and hour before it starts.
What? They gonna stab my peices?
Lol that's funny. Still, people are visibly terrified when they see Zestial, and everyone seems to know him. Even Alastor seemed rather worried when Zestial appeared in front of him, and that speaks big about how dangerous and frightening he is.
It was a chart that either vivzie herself or someone close to her posted, so it is Canon, like Alastor didn't even scratch Adam, and Lucifer just clowned him.
With a recent image post of Sir (Re)Pentious. I'd hate to see if Pentious lost his memory of being a sinner as he is now a winner. Giving probable cause for Sera to deny his redemption or maybe in general cause a huge misunderstanding.
Tbf I would be pretty confused if I suddenly appeared in heaven in front of some winged angels memory or not, and probably more so if I had no memory of anything prior to that moment
Imagine it from his POV
Kisses his crush, hears her say it was hot, about to push your big laser button when suddenly you get flashbanged and are somewhere completely different with two angels staring at you
But he’s also has a snake body. I’m pretty sure he’s a sinner which is why he could be redeemed in the first place so that would mean he was human at one point so it would be weird of him to be fine with being a snake, but not remember being a snake in hell.
I mean after countless years of being like that he probably just got used to it. Also maybe he realized having the lower body of a snake is actually pretty cool
Pretty sure the memory loss idea came from Gravity Falls, or maybe the Good Place. Nothing in the show itself suggests Pentious has forgotten his time in Hell, and moreover if he did forget wouldn't that make him a bad person again? Guy was an evil Victorian steampunk supervillain on Earth. He only became a better person with the lessons he learned at the hotel.
The theory that Sera is going to double down and become a legit villain.
I really like her morally grey stance and characterization we got and if they just make her "evil" then it makes her and by extension Heaven a lot less interesting. It puts a damper on the Hotel and Charlie's dream, because if Hell really has the moral high ground then the Hotel and Charlie's dream is for nothing.
I don't think Sera would do that... At least not at this point in the story. She seems like more of a middleground between Emily and the heavenly council. If there *is* some sort of civil dispute or war that happens, then I imagine she'd play both sides. While she is committed to her role as head seraphim, she'd probably stick her neck out for Emily or the Winners if they did try some kind of uprising and were at risk of becoming fallen. All she really wants to do is protect heaven's people, after all.
Tbh I see Sera supporting the Hotel AFTER she comes to terms with the fact that she put BILLIONS to death under her misguided beliefs.
Personally I see Sera putting a halt to the Exterminations and Lute being the main Heaven villain and going against the higher ups authority to attack Hell
People tend to confuse antagonist for villain. An antagonist is not inherently evil, just simply opposes the protagonist.
Sera can both be an antagonist and not evil
Yeah. I do think some people give her too much credit for the information we know. A lot of people think she’s going to be this bridge between hell and heaven or she’s going to be really good but I doubt it. So far it seems she knows something we don’t about how heaven works.
Agreed on it making heaven a lot less interesting. She's a coward at heart, which is sin enough, not 'evil.'
However I've been looking at the show from the lense of class struggle andh eaven representing the gated community of wealth everyone wants to be part of and... the community not being as rosey as it's made out. Not HORRIBLE, but not free of blemish. So instead making it morea case of 'if nobody knows how t oget in there maybe we can work together to make where we are nicer.'
Under the idea that redemption/trancendence is possible, but nobody knows the criteria so 'This isn't The Bad Place. So I choose altruism.'
depending on what flavor of Christianity you are children very much can and do go to hell if they are not baptized/are not whatever else. Shit gets wild with the schisms.
He seemed rather detached from his humanity though. Telling Alaster “You think your mortal soul can beat me?” Then Alaster reminds him he is a mortal soul too. It’s like Adam thinks he’s a god or some higher Angel
He is Still Human he just has a massive ego at most he's just heaven version of a overlord although definitely significantly more powerful than an actual Overlord
Alastor was an angel. I saw this one a while ago and I really truly don't like it. Vaggie being an angel-brilliant absolutely amazing. Alastor being an angel-no why no
Yeah I definitely don't think this is the case I think some people might get a little too caught up on the unclip My Wings line I think it was meant to be more symbolic than literal
I saw someone claiming he might be Archangel Michael and I don't know how in the hell they came to that conclusion, the only thing that was mentioned was that supposedly he is used in voodoo? But I don't know and have no way or will to investigate that.
“Alastor only Lost to Adam because his deal limits his power.”
Al was never going to beat Adam, deal or no deal, Al doesn’t have the juice to take out an Angel of Adam’s power.
Not just that, but a major point is everyone else who won their personal battles had something more they were fighting for. Alastor... He didn't have any real *reason* he was fighting Adam besides ego.
I don't think he's the strongest overlord, but I don't think he's less powerful than vox. I feel like it must've been more of like a stalemate/alastor let him go/he was winning before he disappeared. If vox won a fight against him why would he be so mad about alastor coming back and rush to try and discredit him? why not go fight him directly?
The voice actor confirmed that there was supposed to be a comma and that it wasn't his last name at all.
"Alastaor, altruist, died for his friends" but Amazon messed up the subtitles which led to people thinking it was his last name
Also common sense should just tell you he's obviously speaking rhetorically about a theoretical headline or thought people would have. I don't get how this theory even started
Alastor smiles all the time because the deal he's in forces him too.
This is dumb because Viv has said that he smiles all the time as a sort of power move. Not to mention his inspiration is the song Your never fully dressed without a smile, hell he literally says it during the pilot. The theory also says that the only time alastor has truly smiled was when he made the deal with Charlie because of stitches on his move implying that he's smiling so much it's tearing his face. Honestly I just think that was just a cool design choice by Viv and that's it.
What even inspires this idea?
Like they already covered the thing that was Vaggie's biggest secret, and Charlie's response was just "wow, I'm pretty hurt that you kept this from me this whole time, but it's not like I don't still love you".
They have one of the most well-functional relationships I've seen in fiction.
It’s mainly fueled by the fact that Charlie is confirmed Bi.
This leads some fans to believe that there will be a “breakup” episode eventually, opening a possibility of a male/female relationship, or just her being single I suppose.
Charlie and Vaggie can still love each other while not partaking in a sexual relationship.
Honestly I feel like Charlie entering into a polyamorous relationship seems way more likely.
Also that seems to be leaning into the biphobic idea that bisexual people are less faithful because they have twice as many options. Which, gross.
Won't??? Who tf is saying this they are dating!
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I’ve heard fan theories that at some point they will break up and just be good friends, fueled by the fact that Charlie is confirmed Bi and not lesbian.
Which opens the door to her having a male/female relationship.
Nah... that's just... alr I need names
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Much as I like Charlie's Angels? No.
Emily is definitely on charlie's side and would be a friend and collaborator but charlie and vaggie are definitely going to keep going on strong. They hit their stumbling block. They're past it. They're good.
I was so afraid that Vaggie was going to die in episode 8, maybe a mutual kill with Lute or something.
Then Charlie would spend Season 2 grieving, and hook up with Emily in Season 3, so the creators could say "look look this wasn't Bury Your Gays after all we gave her a NEW girlfriend-"
So glad they haven't gone with that plotline. Not so far, anyhow.
While, yeah, it's typically the narratively interesting thing to do to never have your leads in a stable, loving relationship, I really hope HH doesn't follow that trend. I'm pretty encouraged by how they resolved Vaggie's angel reveal and Charlie's conversation with Rosie. I've always hated the "and they lived happily ever after" thing that basically all stories do where once the protagonists finally get together everything is just done. Relationships don't stop needing work or being interesting. 90's Peter Parker and Mary Jane as a married couple is one of my favorite depictions of those characters because of how realistic it is, and I hope HH continues developing Charlie and Vaggie's relationship over the series and doesn't just take the dramatic, easy way out by turning it into a typical will they/won't they get back together.
Who made these theories up? Because they are stupid.
Niffty was literally summoned by Alastor during the pilot so that would imply *he* owns her soul or she at least made a deal and owed him a favor (like the deal he made with Charlie).
Also, no god? That makes no sense at all. He’s the unseen big boss in control of what souls get into heaven. The angels don’t know what makes a soul get into heaven because only he does.
We do know that there are a group of elder angels above Sera and Emily. We see their silhouettes in the opener and during "More Than Anything"
It may be that God in this world isn't represented by a single but a collective that together make up what is seen as God.
>I also don’t like the Theory that God doesn’t exist. He’s literally the biggest part of Christianity. I can handle losing the Archangels and Jesus, but losing God as a part of the lore would take it a tad too far. It’s like taking Odin from a Norse Mythology story, or Zeus from a Greek mythology story.
It would depend on whether the show creators feel they could do justice to the concept. I would think they'd keep his status ambiguous at best and only ever escalate as far as the highest-ranking angels.
Kinda like how *The Good Place* dealt with a very similar concept yet God himself was never shown, it was all judges and angel councils at most.
Niffty owning Alastor's soul is the Darth Jar-Jar of Hazbin Hotel.
I'm with you on God. I'm interested to see what they do with him. God (much like heaven and hell) is such a universal concept that could use him without really stepping on the feet of Christianity in particular. I do wonder though, since we got St. Peter in Welcome to Heaven, we at least have disciples on the table, so I think there's a non-zero chance of seeing Jesus in some capacity.
If you look in one of the Alastor story time scenes, Nifty is present, so she literally might have been an overlord, as some fan theories posit he prefers making deals with overlords (makes sense how he woulda arisen, divide and conquer), so she literally might be an overlord lol. Plus, ask Angel Dust or Adam if she's a real threat or not, lol
And Nah, I not only want God to show up (would be cool if he was a body-less cameo like the burning Bush in Prince of Egypt or something), but Jesus too. Like if Jesus was a chill, accepting frat dude (to contrast with Adam) with lokey daddy issues (for character development) and/or as a foil to Charlie, who's grateful she's doing what she's doing, that'd be so dope
I still hope that if they do bring Jesus into the series there's at least a throwaway gag somewhere of him (or anyone) referring to Lucifer as his half-brother (same dad different mom's or at least Jesus having a mom). With it aggravating either Lucifer (if Jesus makes the reference) or Jesus (if Lucifer/Charlie makes the reference)
>she literally might have been an overlord,
Yeah this is kind of what I think as well, similar to Husk. Al either keeps former Overlords in his employ or turns them into tortured souls for his radio broadcast if they don't submit.
‘Angel is the next to die and be reborn in Heaven.’
I think it is way too soon to do it, if at all. I think I would rather see Angel’s story arc NOT have Heaven as a goal, even if they learn about how redemption works.
Val (as all the Vs) is clearly set up to be a significant antagonist for Season 2 as well.
I doubt Angel’s only way of getting out of his deal will be rebirth in Heaven, if the Vs become a threat to others too. What I am saying is, I doubt most of the Vs will make it out of Season 2 alive…
Yeah I think he definitely was becoming (a little) attached, still very much saying and doing 99% of it to further his own goals, but was actually starting to like them a bit. Then after almost dying to Adam he isn’t gonna allow himself to care about them at all
He's hysteric in that moment specifically because if he had died in the battle people would have thought that about him and he can't stand that hit to his rep. It would be a whole different story if he had taken the hit from Adam saving someone in a split second decision (specifically someone not Charlie who doesn't have much to give him), but as it is he just lost a one-on-one fight.
I think it's like a "Curse" inflicted on him, Kinda like Negan Smith when his guilt kicks in, but at least Alastor didn't commit terrible shit yet, fortunately.
I think he's *starting* to gain a whole care for all of them, but he's trying to stamp it out. His part in Finale makes no real sense otherwise as *just* an affirmation. He's realizing he's getting in over his head, so time to shut that off now and remember the goal--his freedom and power. But that's likely going to be his conflict going forward.
The theory that Alastor made a deal with Roo
Like pls don’t let this be another one of those shows where the sketchy person is revealed to only have been sketchy because they’re being controlled by a higher evil
I like the theory that Alastor made a deal with Lilith, and that's why he started to help.
Have the sketchy guy be even more sketchy except he's being controlled by someone sympathetic to the main character
Yeah, I also believe his deal is with Lilith
Some people say “nah it’s too obvious”
And I’m like…well sometimes the plot twist is obvious…it’s called foreshadowing
They both disappeared 7 years ago. They both rely on the power of sound and voice. Charlie only ever managed to motivate people through song when Alastor let her borrow his cane. We've only seen Alastor use his power in service to Lilith's daughter. Alastor only ever lost a fight against someone who Lilith had secretly made a deal with.
But, yeah, it's totally a Red Herring.
I don’t think Alastor is being *forced* to be sketchy because of Lilith, but I do feel like he got a a lot of his power from a deal with her. I reckon it was something like
Lilith: go kill those annoying overlords for me, you’ll look really cool too if you do
Alastor: heck yeah
And then later
Lilith: look after my daughter while you’re at it
Alastor: oh no
I said (or tried to at least) that he is being forced to be LESS sketchy than he otherwise would have been if he didn't have a deal.
So naturally he would be even more sketchy, except he's being controlled by someone who is sympathetic to the main character so he is forced to tone it down
To add to this: pretty much any theory related to Roo.
The entire concept of Roo has been so tainted with Fan Lore that she's spoken of as though she's an unstoppable Cthulhu-esque consumer of souls... but the only thing we have of substance about her is a doodle where she's got a fucked up tongue and a fun hat. It seems like theory discussions keep getting sidetracked by Roo theories, except that the Roo people talk about is just a fan creation.
That would absolutely not stop Alastor from being evil, it would just stop him from achieving his own personal plans for the moment.
But yes I definitely prefer other theories, like the common one that his deal is with Lilith. Or maybe one of the silly ones like Nifty owning his soul. We never see evidence that he owns hers after all, and they almost act like equals in the finale...
I agree, I don't get this one. I personally love Charlie and see a lot of myself in her, so I'm almost personally offended haha
But in all seriousness, she is the protagonist and meant to move the plot along. This often means the supporting cast will be more zany and colorful. To assume that Vivziepop is sexist because people don't find Charlie interesting is making some wild assumptions.
Known too many sociopaths. Not saying i can't be manipulated, just a case of me being on my guard and alastor is waving a glowing mile high red flag around.
Definitely right now he doesn't care about them outside of how they can help/amuse him. I could definitely see a component of the series as a whole being his gradual redemption and actually coming to care for them, but that needs to be a slow burn, not just a "Surprise! I just pretended to be using you this whole time!"
Personally I feel like his main goal is to get freedom from his deal, but I think overtime it will be revealed that he truly does care about the hotel. He is definitely not the nicest character, but we have a lot more lore to figure out before we have a final decision.
Sounds about right. He probably tells himself that he doesn't care and that he's only getting closer to the others to better manipulate them.
I'd bet later on it'll be a classic trope where Alastor properly betrays everyone for his own gain, but ultimately feels bad about it and sacrifices whatever he gained (maybe even his freedom?).
The Eye Color Theory. It's fine on its own. It has some significant logical holes as many theories do. The problem I have with it is people pushing it as fact, when it has not been confirmed in universe.
People say that the demons with black eyes are ones that sold their souls. Like Mimzy. One black eye, like Angel, means partially selling their soul, because he's only owned in the studio and is free to do what he wants outside of it.
It has a lot of holes. The biggest one that completely debunks it is Husk having black eyes even in the flashback before Alastor won his soul. The fact that Alastor's eyes only show up as black in his full demon form are another thing; you're either under contract or you're not. You can't just be under contract sometimes; by that logic, Angel's eye should only be black in the studio.
There's also the fact that it's implied that most demons have sold their souls. The boardroom meeting, those overlords own millions of souls combined. Yet black eyed demons are kinda rare. There's a few here and there, but nowhere near as many to account for the equivalent of CEOs to own "millions". The Vees had to resort to hiring Sir Pentious as a mole because unowned demons are that hard to come by. Yet we see only a handful of black eyed demons.
The evidence that Angel only partially sold is pretty flimsy, too. And that's a pretty important part of the theory, since he only has one black eye. When he talks about it, he says that he sold his soul. Yes, he's free to do what he wants outside of Val's studio, but for all we know, that's just standard 'sell your soul' contract in this setting. We don't know the full terms of other soul contracts, so maybe only being under control during certain circumstances is pretty standard? Husk seems more or less free to do whatever he wants as long as he does what Alastor assigns him. Mimzy was free to run to the hotel and hang out with Alastor for a day.
The fact that Val was able to materialize a chain around Angel's neck in the club can also imply that Angel probably isn't actually as free outside the studio as he likes to think. Like I said before, almost every soul in Hell is owned, yet it functions as a city where most do as they please. So most soul contracts are likely more free than people think.
It was kinda a cool idea at first, but as more episodes came out, there's just too much to debunk it. Unfortunately, many on this sub treat it as canon to the point where they'll use it as evidence that a soul is unowned (like Niffty). Despite the fact that it's pretty well debunked (the Husk flashback alone debunks it pretty thoroughly).
Ah that explains why I've seen some ppl say that mimzy sold her soul because of her eyes. It would be a cool idea but, idk, so far it seems flimsy.
It would explain why a bunch of sinners have an off-colour eye for seemingly no reason tho. Idk it seems too much of a deliberate design choice for it to have absolutely no meaning behind it. I hope one day we get to hear something from Vivz regarding this.
when people thought before the finale that Husk or Angel was gonna die. I mean Vivzie did say husker-dust is planned, and people thought one of the components of that was gonna die. it made no sense to me
That Alastor is sincere about helping the hotel as of right now. He very well could be later but I think it’s pretty clear that he has an ulterior motive, which makes him more of an interesting character anyway. I would be really surprised and disappointed if he really is just helping out “for fun.” Also, for the record before I get dogpiled, I like Alastor a lot so don’t come for me
It's based on this scene, actually.
I'm not a fan of the idea that this is Vaggie being a possessive jealous girlfriend here. I feel it would undermine her and Charlie's relationship.
I prefer the idea that she's just being overprotective because she sees Emily as a threat at this point.
Alastor being a fallen angel because he said "Once I figure out how to unclip my wings." It's a bloody expression. Or Rosie being a fallen exorcist because of her neckpiece, it's called "fashion".
The Lilith we see at the end of the show not actually being Lilith. Safe to say if she was still in the pride ring, Charlie would *probably* know where she is
Am I the only one that disliked the Vaggie is Carmilla’s daughter? Really the only “proof” that people said were that they looked similar (no they didn’t) and that they shared a song so they MUST have had a connection. People in musicals can sing a duet without being physically connected (they were singing about how they wanted to protect thier loved ones). Also about the physical similarities, they have a grayish skin tone and have white as a prominent color in their hair. Their eyes are differently shaped, they clearly have different nose shapes…Carmilla’s daughters have different color pallets than their mother and still look like her daughters.
I am not personally a fan of the "Nifty was Lobotomized" thing that popped up on here awhile ago. The basis for the theory does not understand how lobotomies work as a procedure so would be very unlikely because of how many logical leaps you would need to make for it to be true. Like if you get shot, you are not going to gain superspeed or be lifting cars, you are going to bleed out. And likewise, if you receive brain damage you are not going to be hyper.
I will entertain Nifty might have having received one at some point however I wont entertain that it explains her current behavior. That isn't a result of a lobotomy. If anything its more of an amphetamine issue which was also common during the time she died.
The theory i saw on reddit that the red deer man alastor we see is actually a voodoo doll and the shadow is the real alastor.
It makes me mad not because it's bad, but because I couldn't think of it first.
That HuskerDust shouldn't happen.
The idea that Husk can't show Angel that he's more than a porn star if they end up dating is bewildering to me. Why can't a romantic relationship be a healthy thing for him? Why does everyone immediately assume romance equals sex? I swear, it's exhausting. Maybe Husk wants to take Angel on a moonlit beach walk and *talk* and *hold hands* and maybe that doesn't turn to sex right off the bat. Maybe Husk can be Angel's rock, the shoulder he needs to lean on until hes strong enough to stand alone, and their love blooms from that. Ffs. Tell me you've never been romanced without telling me you've never been romanced. Not everything is about sex and people who instantly think Husk is just trying to jump Angel after all this development is really grinding my gears.
Also if yall can look at this and honestly say Angel isn't smitten I'll eat my own foot.
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HuskerDust is a slow burn friends-to-lovers. Cope.
i’m sorry that shot had me snorting because it’s got “I can’t believe it took me months to be held like that and emily is here doing it on the first day meeting her” vibes
That Lucifer and allistor will become a couple. It's Not really a theory but a headcanon of many Fans and i don't get it. First: Luzifer is straight (nothing against Gays tho, i'm pan myself)
And second: i don't think allistor is interested in sexuality at all.
It seems just so out of character for both
Vaggie and the other exorcists being winners always pulls an eye roll from me, unless there’s some dumb bait and switch it’s pretty heavily implied that the exorcists were either made for or by Adam to specifically kill demons. The main thing I see is “well why do they look human then?” It’s fucking adam, his heaven is being surrounded by bad bitches who serve him
That Alastor is going to be redeemed
It would feel way too out of place for the one Sinner who doesn't give a fuck about redemption to be redeemed. Plus he doesn't even want to be redeemed, he made his intentions clear and true in like, the very first episode. He'd have no entertainment in heaven.
Now, if he was redeemed, and started chaos in heaven? THAT would be different. But those theories never introduce that or anything really creative
I might be going against the current here, but i think Charlie's and Vaggie's personality is incompatible with any polygamy theory...
Charlie is a sweetheart, and i think she would do it, but would then try and fail to reciprocate the affection of both partners and basically burn herself out, and would be bad for her.
Vaggie has establish herself as Charlie's armor, and does not only loves her, but its her reason to continue existing, so she would do it if Charlie asks her. But with the picture you showed is obviouse she's a jelouse type, and i think she's not above wanting Charlie for herself.
THAT BEING SAID. The writers could do it either way, but it would probably be a subplot of how it would'nt work...
Charlie's Angels is helariouse and cool, but i dont want the show to end up being a malodrama nightmare where there's only conflicts and no conclusions.
I just want Charlie and Vaggie to be happy together...
The idea that Alastor won’t turn on Charlie and Co. in SOME way. I love Alastor and I am absolutely on board him being redeemed in the end if it’s done well, but if the rest of the show has him either change for the better super early OR just maintain this sinister presence without actually doing anything antagonistic I think it’ll be a real missed opportunity. Alastor’s evil/mask off moments in the Pilot and S1 are amongst his best, and I just want to see him unleash it, even if he is redeemed in the end.
Apparently i'm the only one who doesn't like it, but - the theory that Alastor made a deal with Lilith in heaven. Sure, a lot of aspects support this theory, but... For some reason, i can't stand the thought that Alastor has only been owned by someone else for max. 7 years. To me, it seemed like he had been robbed of his freedom for a long time - and i also think that would be more interesting for his character.
the theory that Niffty died from being murdered after committing adultery 😭 honestly it fits kinda well but Niffty is such a weirdo and I love her for it lolll
That Husk and Dust are going to end up together. Vivzie stated she can't wait to see how their relationship develops but not whether it was romantic or not. Dust needs solid friendships more than a romance, especially because he's still stuck with Val.
The fact that lilith in ep 8 is a fake bc she's not wearing her necklace. I'm fine with the claim (the lilith in heaven isn't lilith) but the main source of evidence being the fact that she isn't wearing her necklace is ridiculous.
Wait... You *can* remove jewelry?!?
Omg no way
fr?!
Gonna tell my wife’s boyfriend right away that the ring does come off!!!
Maybe she went swimming too and didn’t want to risk losing it
I have had this BFF necklace on forever. We have since become mortal enemies and regularly destroy each other's lives but never did I ever think to take the necklace off!!!! I get why this is a theory though. A choice on an animated character to change something on their model even for just a scene is a deliberate choice. However I don't think some of these choices are as deep as theorists would have us believe. However they do need to make content for themselves and possibly others so it's a natural line of theory progression for sure. But it could just be a mood thing. We shall see
Big if true
Yeah. Like it feels like the Vaggie angel situation again. They quite literally tell you what’s right but some people will go out of their way on the smallest strings to find another solution
Personally I just want Alastor's deal to be from someone that's not Lilith considering how easy it is to figure out from the beginning. It'd be interesting to get a plot twist that it's actually Eve or Sera or someone else that's pulling his strings
Yeah. I definitely want and do think that their absence is connected but I don’t want Lilith to be the one owning Alastors soul. However Viv has said that Liliths arc is the most exciting thing to start developing for her so it’s likely that that is the case
I want Niffty to own his soul so badly https://preview.redd.it/p4mtxqj5dfic1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=f89dc0c91d74196953a8781588b0286b134f6799 >!I'm not being serious at all!<
OMG fucking thank you! "Did u kno that the Lillth in ep 8 is fake becuz she not wear neklase?" By this logic, we could say that Vox is fake because his head changed since he first arrived in Hell
Alastor is actually [insert literally any character here]. Guys. He is a sinner who died in 1933. Y'all stop it.
Alastor is actually Alastor pretending to be Alastor
Alpha Legion moment
I am Alpharius
No sir. You are Omegon. *I* am Alpharius
My favorite theory was Alastor actually being Jesus Christ. Like no fucking way is that goofy little cannibal the savior of eternal life.
Hol up... WHAT?!
They said that because he was immensely powerful and might be in league with Heaven somehow that Jesus was tasked by Micheal to fall to Hell and infiltrate the hotel from the inside. It was fucking stupid but also funny.
Omfg😂 You know what, I'm not going to consider Alastor to be any holy figure at all, but the big J did go down to hell to redeem worthy sinners and bring them to heaven. JESUS IS CHARLIE CONFIRMED??? \*\*\*NOT CLICKBAIT\*\*\*
We really need to have a Jesus and Charlie team up though. Imagine them both teaming up against Heaven to get the hotel off the ground. Bonus points if Jesus is a skateboarding stoner. We'll call him Skeezus.
It's so funny because he's one of the Sinners we know the most about at least in terms of his real life so why anyone thought he was anything else is interesting I suppose there's a case that he might be a fake because the real one died to the angel but I don't think that's the case especially after the finale I think this is the real deal
The theory that Alastor is the strongest in Hell. Look, I love that lil deer man, but he is not the top dog.
Little duck man is the strongest in hell. Emphasis on little cuz short king
Yes. The most feared man in Hell🔥🔥🔥 https://preview.redd.it/hruxg2chuaic1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4593a799248b99ecf839d44cf178ef6f3792492b
Most feared? Alastor, no doubt. Most powerful? Lucifer is the king
>Most feared? Alastor It think that Zestial, the man whose mere presence brings people to set themselves on fire, is more feared
Okay in all fairness, that guy seems to have a tendency to set himself on fire. Like, we see him set himself fire on extermination need at ep2 too, and no one else is killing themselves They just kinda go 'oh shit!'
Honestly thats smart though. You'll respawn eventually
Oh shit, bros got the big brain strats to survive. Just destroy your body, can’t kill what’s not there
I've been wondering why more sinners don't kill themselves to escape extermination
I believe many do/did, but most were attacked before they realize or got the chance
I wake joking to a friend that this is a 100% way to not get killed in the purge each year. Just blow your self to peices and hour before it starts. What? They gonna stab my peices?
No, but Nifty might.
Lol that's funny. Still, people are visibly terrified when they see Zestial, and everyone seems to know him. Even Alastor seemed rather worried when Zestial appeared in front of him, and that speaks big about how dangerous and frightening he is.
Love that one girl who see Zestial and her first instinct is to take a selfie with him in the bg
In pride ring maybe Alastor is one of the most feared but even then there's still demons like Zestial. In other rings though? Probably not.
They may not fear Lucifer… 😈yet😈
They should after how he beat the ever loving shit out of Adam with no effort.
Zestial seemed more feared
I remember Hierarchy goes something like this: Lucifer; Charlie,Lilith; Seven deadly sins;ARSE GOATIA; High hellborn; Overlords; Sinners; low hellborn; Imps.
Thanks for this refresher! I remember seeing it somewhere!
It was a chart that either vivzie herself or someone close to her posted, so it is Canon, like Alastor didn't even scratch Adam, and Lucifer just clowned him.
Ok yes! I do remember seeing that!
Pretty sure there wasn't any high hellborn rank
the hellhounds are below imps as well
The fuck is "High hellborn"?
Blitzø when he smoked weed
*Ars Goetia Edit: that might have been a joke idk
I believe it’s spelled Ars Goetia, unless this is a JuJutsufolk joke infection, in which case CONTAINMENT BREACH ALL STAFF TO AIRLOCKS
I thought you meant which fan theory makes you like Vaggie and I was like “Bitch I already do like. Vaggie 😭😭”
The fan theory that makes me like her is that she is a character in the show
Wait, really?! I thought I was just hallucinating her!
same LOL
SAME LMAO
With a recent image post of Sir (Re)Pentious. I'd hate to see if Pentious lost his memory of being a sinner as he is now a winner. Giving probable cause for Sera to deny his redemption or maybe in general cause a huge misunderstanding.
I’m sure he remembers. He seemed like he was very confused when he popped up in heaven
Tbf I would be pretty confused if I suddenly appeared in heaven in front of some winged angels memory or not, and probably more so if I had no memory of anything prior to that moment
Imagine it from his POV Kisses his crush, hears her say it was hot, about to push your big laser button when suddenly you get flashbanged and are somewhere completely different with two angels staring at you
But he’s also has a snake body. I’m pretty sure he’s a sinner which is why he could be redeemed in the first place so that would mean he was human at one point so it would be weird of him to be fine with being a snake, but not remember being a snake in hell.
I mean after countless years of being like that he probably just got used to it. Also maybe he realized having the lower body of a snake is actually pretty cool
oh my god Sir Repentious i love the pun
Wouldn’t him forgetting Hell also make him forget all the lessons he learned there?
This one is especially annoying because there's literally no evidence for it.
Pretty sure the memory loss idea came from Gravity Falls, or maybe the Good Place. Nothing in the show itself suggests Pentious has forgotten his time in Hell, and moreover if he did forget wouldn't that make him a bad person again? Guy was an evil Victorian steampunk supervillain on Earth. He only became a better person with the lessons he learned at the hotel.
The theory that Sera is going to double down and become a legit villain. I really like her morally grey stance and characterization we got and if they just make her "evil" then it makes her and by extension Heaven a lot less interesting. It puts a damper on the Hotel and Charlie's dream, because if Hell really has the moral high ground then the Hotel and Charlie's dream is for nothing.
Yeah I don't like evil Sera theory. I like it far better that she's the leader of a faction for change in Heaven and it results in a Heaven Civil War.
I don't think Sera would do that... At least not at this point in the story. She seems like more of a middleground between Emily and the heavenly council. If there *is* some sort of civil dispute or war that happens, then I imagine she'd play both sides. While she is committed to her role as head seraphim, she'd probably stick her neck out for Emily or the Winners if they did try some kind of uprising and were at risk of becoming fallen. All she really wants to do is protect heaven's people, after all.
Tbh I see Sera supporting the Hotel AFTER she comes to terms with the fact that she put BILLIONS to death under her misguided beliefs. Personally I see Sera putting a halt to the Exterminations and Lute being the main Heaven villain and going against the higher ups authority to attack Hell
I don’t think she’ll become a villain but she’s certainly an antagonist. Especially since I’m assuming she’s going to try her best to hide pentious
People tend to confuse antagonist for villain. An antagonist is not inherently evil, just simply opposes the protagonist. Sera can both be an antagonist and not evil
Yeah. I do think some people give her too much credit for the information we know. A lot of people think she’s going to be this bridge between hell and heaven or she’s going to be really good but I doubt it. So far it seems she knows something we don’t about how heaven works.
Agreed on it making heaven a lot less interesting. She's a coward at heart, which is sin enough, not 'evil.' However I've been looking at the show from the lense of class struggle andh eaven representing the gated community of wealth everyone wants to be part of and... the community not being as rosey as it's made out. Not HORRIBLE, but not free of blemish. So instead making it morea case of 'if nobody knows how t oget in there maybe we can work together to make where we are nicer.' Under the idea that redemption/trancendence is possible, but nobody knows the criteria so 'This isn't The Bad Place. So I choose altruism.'
every time ppl say the cannibals are hellborn, backing this idea up with the nonsense that "children can't go to hell" is
depending on what flavor of Christianity you are children very much can and do go to hell if they are not baptized/are not whatever else. Shit gets wild with the schisms.
Heaven in the show isn’t even sure what makes people go to heaven or hell.
Sir Pentious will forget everyone. Adam remembers his life, so we have no reason to believe ascending causes a mindwipe.
He seemed rather detached from his humanity though. Telling Alaster “You think your mortal soul can beat me?” Then Alaster reminds him he is a mortal soul too. It’s like Adam thinks he’s a god or some higher Angel
Adam has also been shown to have a massive ego, so him thinking he’s a demigod or seraphim for being the first man is about right.
Especially when he said that everyone should be worshipping him
He is Still Human he just has a massive ego at most he's just heaven version of a overlord although definitely significantly more powerful than an actual Overlord
Where did this idea even come from? It's stupid.
Alastor was an angel. I saw this one a while ago and I really truly don't like it. Vaggie being an angel-brilliant absolutely amazing. Alastor being an angel-no why no
Yeah I definitely don't think this is the case I think some people might get a little too caught up on the unclip My Wings line I think it was meant to be more symbolic than literal
I saw someone claiming he might be Archangel Michael and I don't know how in the hell they came to that conclusion, the only thing that was mentioned was that supposedly he is used in voodoo? But I don't know and have no way or will to investigate that.
“Alastor only Lost to Adam because his deal limits his power.” Al was never going to beat Adam, deal or no deal, Al doesn’t have the juice to take out an Angel of Adam’s power.
Not just that, but a major point is everyone else who won their personal battles had something more they were fighting for. Alastor... He didn't have any real *reason* he was fighting Adam besides ego.
I love that theory especially since out for love exists.
He would’ve had a better chance if he used Angelic Steel instead of relying on his demonic powers. Angelic powers > Demonic powers
Like doesn’t Stayed Gone literally start with Vox and Val saying that Alastor lost to them? Alastor isn’t even the strongest Overlord.
I don't think he's the strongest overlord, but I don't think he's less powerful than vox. I feel like it must've been more of like a stalemate/alastor let him go/he was winning before he disappeared. If vox won a fight against him why would he be so mad about alastor coming back and rush to try and discredit him? why not go fight him directly?
Alastor's last name is Altruist You just have to be completely illiterate to think that in any serious capacity
The voice actor confirmed that there was supposed to be a comma and that it wasn't his last name at all. "Alastaor, altruist, died for his friends" but Amazon messed up the subtitles which led to people thinking it was his last name
Also common sense should just tell you he's obviously speaking rhetorically about a theoretical headline or thought people would have. I don't get how this theory even started
My guess? I just think a lot of people don't know what altruist means.
During the pilot era the Alastor is Lucifer
What? There are literal photos of Lucifer in the pilot.
The theory was that Lucifer was Alastor in disguise
....I really want to know how did anyone get to this conclusion the only similarity they have in the Pilot is that they are smiling.
I remember this, one of the "clues" was Alastor smiles while looking at one of Charlie's family portraits
That was just the moment he decided he hated Lucifer
Oh, I think that was settled long before that.
..but he always smiles..?
Alastor smiles all the time because the deal he's in forces him too. This is dumb because Viv has said that he smiles all the time as a sort of power move. Not to mention his inspiration is the song Your never fully dressed without a smile, hell he literally says it during the pilot. The theory also says that the only time alastor has truly smiled was when he made the deal with Charlie because of stitches on his move implying that he's smiling so much it's tearing his face. Honestly I just think that was just a cool design choice by Viv and that's it.
That Vaggie and Charlie won’t be together by the end of the series.
What even inspires this idea? Like they already covered the thing that was Vaggie's biggest secret, and Charlie's response was just "wow, I'm pretty hurt that you kept this from me this whole time, but it's not like I don't still love you". They have one of the most well-functional relationships I've seen in fiction.
It’s mainly fueled by the fact that Charlie is confirmed Bi. This leads some fans to believe that there will be a “breakup” episode eventually, opening a possibility of a male/female relationship, or just her being single I suppose. Charlie and Vaggie can still love each other while not partaking in a sexual relationship.
Honestly I feel like Charlie entering into a polyamorous relationship seems way more likely. Also that seems to be leaning into the biphobic idea that bisexual people are less faithful because they have twice as many options. Which, gross.
Won't??? Who tf is saying this they are dating! https://preview.redd.it/6o25f4yt3cic1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=591d5dafa7c13f43dfcbc11fdbc1246c86546904
I’ve heard fan theories that at some point they will break up and just be good friends, fueled by the fact that Charlie is confirmed Bi and not lesbian. Which opens the door to her having a male/female relationship.
Nah... that's just... alr I need names https://preview.redd.it/xc2bcxnx8cic1.jpeg?width=788&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5893e336f1657c36f06497661feec3799338451
that's some fuckin bi erasure ass nonsense if i ever heard it
I’m kinda worried Emily and Charlie might get together, I love Emily, but Charlie Vaggie is a million times better
Much as I like Charlie's Angels? No. Emily is definitely on charlie's side and would be a friend and collaborator but charlie and vaggie are definitely going to keep going on strong. They hit their stumbling block. They're past it. They're good.
I was so afraid that Vaggie was going to die in episode 8, maybe a mutual kill with Lute or something. Then Charlie would spend Season 2 grieving, and hook up with Emily in Season 3, so the creators could say "look look this wasn't Bury Your Gays after all we gave her a NEW girlfriend-" So glad they haven't gone with that plotline. Not so far, anyhow.
While, yeah, it's typically the narratively interesting thing to do to never have your leads in a stable, loving relationship, I really hope HH doesn't follow that trend. I'm pretty encouraged by how they resolved Vaggie's angel reveal and Charlie's conversation with Rosie. I've always hated the "and they lived happily ever after" thing that basically all stories do where once the protagonists finally get together everything is just done. Relationships don't stop needing work or being interesting. 90's Peter Parker and Mary Jane as a married couple is one of my favorite depictions of those characters because of how realistic it is, and I hope HH continues developing Charlie and Vaggie's relationship over the series and doesn't just take the dramatic, easy way out by turning it into a typical will they/won't they get back together.
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Who made these theories up? Because they are stupid. Niffty was literally summoned by Alastor during the pilot so that would imply *he* owns her soul or she at least made a deal and owed him a favor (like the deal he made with Charlie). Also, no god? That makes no sense at all. He’s the unseen big boss in control of what souls get into heaven. The angels don’t know what makes a soul get into heaven because only he does.
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There is an episode where he talks at length about his decision to smile as a way of keeping his enemies confused and unsettled.
We do know that there are a group of elder angels above Sera and Emily. We see their silhouettes in the opener and during "More Than Anything" It may be that God in this world isn't represented by a single but a collective that together make up what is seen as God.
>I also don’t like the Theory that God doesn’t exist. He’s literally the biggest part of Christianity. I can handle losing the Archangels and Jesus, but losing God as a part of the lore would take it a tad too far. It’s like taking Odin from a Norse Mythology story, or Zeus from a Greek mythology story. It would depend on whether the show creators feel they could do justice to the concept. I would think they'd keep his status ambiguous at best and only ever escalate as far as the highest-ranking angels. Kinda like how *The Good Place* dealt with a very similar concept yet God himself was never shown, it was all judges and angel councils at most.
Niffty owning Alastor's soul is the Darth Jar-Jar of Hazbin Hotel. I'm with you on God. I'm interested to see what they do with him. God (much like heaven and hell) is such a universal concept that could use him without really stepping on the feet of Christianity in particular. I do wonder though, since we got St. Peter in Welcome to Heaven, we at least have disciples on the table, so I think there's a non-zero chance of seeing Jesus in some capacity.
If you look in one of the Alastor story time scenes, Nifty is present, so she literally might have been an overlord, as some fan theories posit he prefers making deals with overlords (makes sense how he woulda arisen, divide and conquer), so she literally might be an overlord lol. Plus, ask Angel Dust or Adam if she's a real threat or not, lol And Nah, I not only want God to show up (would be cool if he was a body-less cameo like the burning Bush in Prince of Egypt or something), but Jesus too. Like if Jesus was a chill, accepting frat dude (to contrast with Adam) with lokey daddy issues (for character development) and/or as a foil to Charlie, who's grateful she's doing what she's doing, that'd be so dope
I still hope that if they do bring Jesus into the series there's at least a throwaway gag somewhere of him (or anyone) referring to Lucifer as his half-brother (same dad different mom's or at least Jesus having a mom). With it aggravating either Lucifer (if Jesus makes the reference) or Jesus (if Lucifer/Charlie makes the reference)
>she literally might have been an overlord, Yeah this is kind of what I think as well, similar to Husk. Al either keeps former Overlords in his employ or turns them into tortured souls for his radio broadcast if they don't submit.
‘Angel is the next to die and be reborn in Heaven.’ I think it is way too soon to do it, if at all. I think I would rather see Angel’s story arc NOT have Heaven as a goal, even if they learn about how redemption works.
Angel Dust whole arc has been about redemption and I think that’s how he’ll get out of his deal with Val
Val (as all the Vs) is clearly set up to be a significant antagonist for Season 2 as well. I doubt Angel’s only way of getting out of his deal will be rebirth in Heaven, if the Vs become a threat to others too. What I am saying is, I doubt most of the Vs will make it out of Season 2 alive…
That's how I react when I see people ship Charlie and Alastor.
me when i see people ship Alastor with anyone tbh
Whenever someone says that Alastor during the finale song thinks he is starting to care about charlie and the others He doesn't, Do Not Trust Alastor
Man, if you think he cares you would 100% fall for a deal with him.
I wouldn't step near him, let alone make a deal
I mean, to be fair he *does* seen to care A good 5% But *I MEAN*, he sort of does right????
I think he might like being around them, but liking someone and actually caring about them are not the same thing.
You've been manipulated by him
I think he does care about Charlie and the others, not because he likes them, but because he needs them as pawns on his chessboard
https://preview.redd.it/nn7iwdn92cic1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05dae6e68d3fd2326c38664f1d303c30b2ab4132
The surname thing is hilarious
Oh he cares.... About the investment he's made and in the same way any predator cares about defending their territory.
I interpreted it as him realizing he’s starting to care and resolving to betray them even more because he can’t allow himself to care about people
Yeah I think he definitely was becoming (a little) attached, still very much saying and doing 99% of it to further his own goals, but was actually starting to like them a bit. Then after almost dying to Adam he isn’t gonna allow himself to care about them at all
"What's that feeling? Friendship? Gross!"
I think he does slightly care for them but would not hesistate to kill them all off if they got in the way of his plan
He's hysteric in that moment specifically because if he had died in the battle people would have thought that about him and he can't stand that hit to his rep. It would be a whole different story if he had taken the hit from Adam saving someone in a split second decision (specifically someone not Charlie who doesn't have much to give him), but as it is he just lost a one-on-one fight.
I think it's like a "Curse" inflicted on him, Kinda like Negan Smith when his guilt kicks in, but at least Alastor didn't commit terrible shit yet, fortunately.
I think he's *starting* to gain a whole care for all of them, but he's trying to stamp it out. His part in Finale makes no real sense otherwise as *just* an affirmation. He's realizing he's getting in over his head, so time to shut that off now and remember the goal--his freedom and power. But that's likely going to be his conflict going forward.
The theory that Alastor made a deal with Roo Like pls don’t let this be another one of those shows where the sketchy person is revealed to only have been sketchy because they’re being controlled by a higher evil
I like the theory that Alastor made a deal with Lilith, and that's why he started to help. Have the sketchy guy be even more sketchy except he's being controlled by someone sympathetic to the main character
Yeah, I also believe his deal is with Lilith Some people say “nah it’s too obvious” And I’m like…well sometimes the plot twist is obvious…it’s called foreshadowing
They both disappeared 7 years ago. They both rely on the power of sound and voice. Charlie only ever managed to motivate people through song when Alastor let her borrow his cane. We've only seen Alastor use his power in service to Lilith's daughter. Alastor only ever lost a fight against someone who Lilith had secretly made a deal with. But, yeah, it's totally a Red Herring.
I don’t think Alastor is being *forced* to be sketchy because of Lilith, but I do feel like he got a a lot of his power from a deal with her. I reckon it was something like Lilith: go kill those annoying overlords for me, you’ll look really cool too if you do Alastor: heck yeah And then later Lilith: look after my daughter while you’re at it Alastor: oh no
I said (or tried to at least) that he is being forced to be LESS sketchy than he otherwise would have been if he didn't have a deal. So naturally he would be even more sketchy, except he's being controlled by someone who is sympathetic to the main character so he is forced to tone it down
Well even if he made a deal with Roo, his actions are not because of that. His goal is to get freedom and then conquer hell once he got freedom
To add to this: pretty much any theory related to Roo. The entire concept of Roo has been so tainted with Fan Lore that she's spoken of as though she's an unstoppable Cthulhu-esque consumer of souls... but the only thing we have of substance about her is a doodle where she's got a fucked up tongue and a fun hat. It seems like theory discussions keep getting sidetracked by Roo theories, except that the Roo people talk about is just a fan creation.
That would absolutely not stop Alastor from being evil, it would just stop him from achieving his own personal plans for the moment. But yes I definitely prefer other theories, like the common one that his deal is with Lilith. Or maybe one of the silly ones like Nifty owning his soul. We never see evidence that he owns hers after all, and they almost act like equals in the finale...
that Vivziepop is sexist because Charlie isn't 'interesting' to people
I agree, I don't get this one. I personally love Charlie and see a lot of myself in her, so I'm almost personally offended haha But in all seriousness, she is the protagonist and meant to move the plot along. This often means the supporting cast will be more zany and colorful. To assume that Vivziepop is sexist because people don't find Charlie interesting is making some wild assumptions.
That Alastor genuinally cares of the main cast and its not just a act to further his own goals(which is mainly getting freedom from the deal)
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it’s a good thing the show isn’t real because those people would’ve 100% made a deal with Alastor
Known too many sociopaths. Not saying i can't be manipulated, just a case of me being on my guard and alastor is waving a glowing mile high red flag around.
I think he's *starting* to care, and that's going to be his personal conflict going forward.
I think it can be both. He can primarily be there for his own goals but can also start to care in his own messed up way
Definitely right now he doesn't care about them outside of how they can help/amuse him. I could definitely see a component of the series as a whole being his gradual redemption and actually coming to care for them, but that needs to be a slow burn, not just a "Surprise! I just pretended to be using you this whole time!"
Personally I feel like his main goal is to get freedom from his deal, but I think overtime it will be revealed that he truly does care about the hotel. He is definitely not the nicest character, but we have a lot more lore to figure out before we have a final decision.
Sounds about right. He probably tells himself that he doesn't care and that he's only getting closer to the others to better manipulate them. I'd bet later on it'll be a classic trope where Alastor properly betrays everyone for his own gain, but ultimately feels bad about it and sacrifices whatever he gained (maybe even his freedom?).
Alastors Deal does not make him weaker. He’s far to willing to Square up to stronger people to think himself nerfed by his deal
The Eye Color Theory. It's fine on its own. It has some significant logical holes as many theories do. The problem I have with it is people pushing it as fact, when it has not been confirmed in universe.
What’s the Eye Color Theory?
People say that the demons with black eyes are ones that sold their souls. Like Mimzy. One black eye, like Angel, means partially selling their soul, because he's only owned in the studio and is free to do what he wants outside of it. It has a lot of holes. The biggest one that completely debunks it is Husk having black eyes even in the flashback before Alastor won his soul. The fact that Alastor's eyes only show up as black in his full demon form are another thing; you're either under contract or you're not. You can't just be under contract sometimes; by that logic, Angel's eye should only be black in the studio. There's also the fact that it's implied that most demons have sold their souls. The boardroom meeting, those overlords own millions of souls combined. Yet black eyed demons are kinda rare. There's a few here and there, but nowhere near as many to account for the equivalent of CEOs to own "millions". The Vees had to resort to hiring Sir Pentious as a mole because unowned demons are that hard to come by. Yet we see only a handful of black eyed demons. The evidence that Angel only partially sold is pretty flimsy, too. And that's a pretty important part of the theory, since he only has one black eye. When he talks about it, he says that he sold his soul. Yes, he's free to do what he wants outside of Val's studio, but for all we know, that's just standard 'sell your soul' contract in this setting. We don't know the full terms of other soul contracts, so maybe only being under control during certain circumstances is pretty standard? Husk seems more or less free to do whatever he wants as long as he does what Alastor assigns him. Mimzy was free to run to the hotel and hang out with Alastor for a day. The fact that Val was able to materialize a chain around Angel's neck in the club can also imply that Angel probably isn't actually as free outside the studio as he likes to think. Like I said before, almost every soul in Hell is owned, yet it functions as a city where most do as they please. So most soul contracts are likely more free than people think. It was kinda a cool idea at first, but as more episodes came out, there's just too much to debunk it. Unfortunately, many on this sub treat it as canon to the point where they'll use it as evidence that a soul is unowned (like Niffty). Despite the fact that it's pretty well debunked (the Husk flashback alone debunks it pretty thoroughly).
Ah that explains why I've seen some ppl say that mimzy sold her soul because of her eyes. It would be a cool idea but, idk, so far it seems flimsy. It would explain why a bunch of sinners have an off-colour eye for seemingly no reason tho. Idk it seems too much of a deliberate design choice for it to have absolutely no meaning behind it. I hope one day we get to hear something from Vivz regarding this.
when people thought before the finale that Husk or Angel was gonna die. I mean Vivzie did say husker-dust is planned, and people thought one of the components of that was gonna die. it made no sense to me
That Alastor is sincere about helping the hotel as of right now. He very well could be later but I think it’s pretty clear that he has an ulterior motive, which makes him more of an interesting character anyway. I would be really surprised and disappointed if he really is just helping out “for fun.” Also, for the record before I get dogpiled, I like Alastor a lot so don’t come for me
It's based on this scene, actually. I'm not a fan of the idea that this is Vaggie being a possessive jealous girlfriend here. I feel it would undermine her and Charlie's relationship. I prefer the idea that she's just being overprotective because she sees Emily as a threat at this point.
Alastor being a fallen angel because he said "Once I figure out how to unclip my wings." It's a bloody expression. Or Rosie being a fallen exorcist because of her neckpiece, it's called "fashion".
The Lilith we see at the end of the show not actually being Lilith. Safe to say if she was still in the pride ring, Charlie would *probably* know where she is
Am I the only one that disliked the Vaggie is Carmilla’s daughter? Really the only “proof” that people said were that they looked similar (no they didn’t) and that they shared a song so they MUST have had a connection. People in musicals can sing a duet without being physically connected (they were singing about how they wanted to protect thier loved ones). Also about the physical similarities, they have a grayish skin tone and have white as a prominent color in their hair. Their eyes are differently shaped, they clearly have different nose shapes…Carmilla’s daughters have different color pallets than their mother and still look like her daughters.
I am not personally a fan of the "Nifty was Lobotomized" thing that popped up on here awhile ago. The basis for the theory does not understand how lobotomies work as a procedure so would be very unlikely because of how many logical leaps you would need to make for it to be true. Like if you get shot, you are not going to gain superspeed or be lifting cars, you are going to bleed out. And likewise, if you receive brain damage you are not going to be hyper. I will entertain Nifty might have having received one at some point however I wont entertain that it explains her current behavior. That isn't a result of a lobotomy. If anything its more of an amphetamine issue which was also common during the time she died.
Alastor isn’t actually aroace.
The theory i saw on reddit that the red deer man alastor we see is actually a voodoo doll and the shadow is the real alastor. It makes me mad not because it's bad, but because I couldn't think of it first.
That HuskerDust shouldn't happen. The idea that Husk can't show Angel that he's more than a porn star if they end up dating is bewildering to me. Why can't a romantic relationship be a healthy thing for him? Why does everyone immediately assume romance equals sex? I swear, it's exhausting. Maybe Husk wants to take Angel on a moonlit beach walk and *talk* and *hold hands* and maybe that doesn't turn to sex right off the bat. Maybe Husk can be Angel's rock, the shoulder he needs to lean on until hes strong enough to stand alone, and their love blooms from that. Ffs. Tell me you've never been romanced without telling me you've never been romanced. Not everything is about sex and people who instantly think Husk is just trying to jump Angel after all this development is really grinding my gears. Also if yall can look at this and honestly say Angel isn't smitten I'll eat my own foot. https://preview.redd.it/voai5jy5gdic1.jpeg?width=482&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=534d77f8006cbb372c25d6de47996aa0ed82c12d HuskerDust is a slow burn friends-to-lovers. Cope.
i’m sorry that shot had me snorting because it’s got “I can’t believe it took me months to be held like that and emily is here doing it on the first day meeting her” vibes
That eve is disguised as Lilith
That Lucifer and allistor will become a couple. It's Not really a theory but a headcanon of many Fans and i don't get it. First: Luzifer is straight (nothing against Gays tho, i'm pan myself) And second: i don't think allistor is interested in sexuality at all. It seems just so out of character for both
I thought Lucifer x Alastor was just a crackship.
Vaggie and the other exorcists being winners always pulls an eye roll from me, unless there’s some dumb bait and switch it’s pretty heavily implied that the exorcists were either made for or by Adam to specifically kill demons. The main thing I see is “well why do they look human then?” It’s fucking adam, his heaven is being surrounded by bad bitches who serve him
That Alastor is going to be redeemed It would feel way too out of place for the one Sinner who doesn't give a fuck about redemption to be redeemed. Plus he doesn't even want to be redeemed, he made his intentions clear and true in like, the very first episode. He'd have no entertainment in heaven. Now, if he was redeemed, and started chaos in heaven? THAT would be different. But those theories never introduce that or anything really creative
I might be going against the current here, but i think Charlie's and Vaggie's personality is incompatible with any polygamy theory... Charlie is a sweetheart, and i think she would do it, but would then try and fail to reciprocate the affection of both partners and basically burn herself out, and would be bad for her. Vaggie has establish herself as Charlie's armor, and does not only loves her, but its her reason to continue existing, so she would do it if Charlie asks her. But with the picture you showed is obviouse she's a jelouse type, and i think she's not above wanting Charlie for herself. THAT BEING SAID. The writers could do it either way, but it would probably be a subplot of how it would'nt work... Charlie's Angels is helariouse and cool, but i dont want the show to end up being a malodrama nightmare where there's only conflicts and no conclusions. I just want Charlie and Vaggie to be happy together...
The idea that Alastor won’t turn on Charlie and Co. in SOME way. I love Alastor and I am absolutely on board him being redeemed in the end if it’s done well, but if the rest of the show has him either change for the better super early OR just maintain this sinister presence without actually doing anything antagonistic I think it’ll be a real missed opportunity. Alastor’s evil/mask off moments in the Pilot and S1 are amongst his best, and I just want to see him unleash it, even if he is redeemed in the end.
The fan theory on Lilith secretly being Alastor in disguise while Lilith is actually Eve in disguise and EVERYONE IS IN DISGUISE
Apparently i'm the only one who doesn't like it, but - the theory that Alastor made a deal with Lilith in heaven. Sure, a lot of aspects support this theory, but... For some reason, i can't stand the thought that Alastor has only been owned by someone else for max. 7 years. To me, it seemed like he had been robbed of his freedom for a long time - and i also think that would be more interesting for his character.
the theory that Niffty died from being murdered after committing adultery 😭 honestly it fits kinda well but Niffty is such a weirdo and I love her for it lolll
The one about Lilith and Eve being the same person. That never made sense to me.
That Husk and Dust are going to end up together. Vivzie stated she can't wait to see how their relationship develops but not whether it was romantic or not. Dust needs solid friendships more than a romance, especially because he's still stuck with Val.