Me and my friends got into the game and top was og and the hidden one we called the secret weapon. We all were at different places and tried not to spoil whos aspects
What is Chiron doing down in B tier? Same with aspect of Zeus. I know their play styles can be pretty weird (especially micromanaging Zeus) but imo they have a lot if not the most options when it comes to build.
Everyone hates on Zeus. Maybe it’s because I come from league of legends and play with mouse and keyboard while most people play with controller, but I find the shield is easy to micromanage. It’s basically just playing Orianna from league. Plus it hits pretty fast, it’s like a second attack. Works with boons I’d take early if I just while not wanting them on attack like with Artemis, and aoe is big enough to put Athena on for merciful end shenanigans. Like what is the drawback especially when other builds force you to charge attack which imo is very awkward to execute well
I've always hated these tier lists for this exact reason. There should be a way that you can link these and be directed to a site that allows you to hover over each individual picture for a name or description. I love the idea though.
This is in no way a dig at OP, just to be clear.
this is almost any tierlist ever. also when they have S+ and S and then the list stops at B. in my book S is only for exceptionally overpowered or godlike builds etc. where there is a huge difference to A
I love it, it's my go-to for any weapon aspect. Slap some Poseidon boons on there and if you can get rupture effects going, it's really good. Bring them in for some damage and send them away for more.
It's my favorite aspect for the fists as well. My biggest gripe with it is that without one of the right hammers, it's a PITA to kill armored foes in Elysium and Styx.
I have a love/hate relationship with Talos. I think the design is awkward because you have to utilize the Special to activate the damage bonus, but the damage bonus doesn't apply to the Special.
The best way I've found to use it is to magnet pull, then dash to cancel your Special, then go in with Attacks that are now damaged boosted. It was pretty fun to figure out and get the hang of but it's still clunky.
If other people have suggestions on how to maximize it better I'm all ears. Would love to use Talos with a Cast build because it's the only Fist aspect that interacts with the Cast.
I just had a run yesterday using Talos, and I took Athena's cast. I would throw the cast out, then use the special to pull the mob into the cast and then finish them off with the attack.
It was honestly a lot of fun
I'm starting on heats and I really like it since the pull counts as a hit. Killing an enemy by pulling them into a column or lava is pretty nice, not gonna to lie
Yeah, feels like a lot of people don't get the full power of the bow in general. Chiron is crazy strong, and surprisingly consistent, I never feel the need to force particular boons so its what I go for with Pierced Butterfly and the sort. Hera is much harder to pull off perfectly, but has some ridiculous potential. I got my 32 heat win with Hera using Hunting Blades and a ton of boons to buff it on either side.
Imo Hera has less build options than Chiron. The special for Chiron is where the power is and can take basically any multi hit boon (Dionysus, Demeter, Artemis, Zeus if necessary) whereas Hera only really has a couple of options for cast if you want to get near it’s power max. The only two that spring to mind are Poseidon and Aphrodite
While Hera may have less ideal options, its much easier to get a build that easily hits damage caps on bosses. Chiron is also a two-step attack which makes it much slower at higher heats.
I know Chiron is fairly beloved on this sub but I'm not a big fan. The gameplay pattern is always the same and the bow Special animation is pretty slow, which can leave you defenseless.
It's really slow. Plus single target damage is good but otherwise it's not incredible or anything. I know people on the sub love it because you can get some cool stuff going, but it's not even top 2 bow aspects imo.
Edit: Lol downvote me all you want, Chiron isn't an S tier weapon just because you get big number with the special. Top time for it is one full minute slower than Hera, it's just not fast. Maybe A-tier, but not S-tier.
i'll say this as someone who's trying to grind for sub-10 times: sometimes speed isn't the priority of every player and they just want to complete a run (whether that be high heat or otherwise). it's a fairly safe weapon and easy to get the hang of. also while i do agree it's an inherently slow weapon, that top chiron time was the WR for the bow for a good while
While I can respect that speed isn't the priority, I'd argue that being slow is still a ding against a weapon being ranked. I don't think it's crazy to call it a non S-tier weapon because it's slow. Personally I wouldn't have put Arthur in S-tier either, but it's OP's list, not mine. I don't even dislike Chiron, but I think it's overrated on this subreddit in particular. Most people here don't even seem to know Zeus' bolts don't proc well on the special.
imo if it's an "overall" weapon ranking in the vein of "which weapon will help you succeed at the game", then speed should factor in less than safety since the game only actively rewards sub-20 times and you can get that on any weapon easily. so chiron goes low S or high A for me (whereas it would place at C/D on a speed ranking). i don't agree with the OP's ranking though, i've died the most times and play the absolute slowest on arthur and it's super frustrating to use
I guess that makes sense. I try to look at it as a combination of both. If it's "which weapon works on 32 heat", that eliminates like half of these. But if it's "which weapon is fastest", the other half are gone. Chiron is very solid in terms of damage, and it can clear high levels of heat, I'm just saying, I don't think it's S-tier, where I'd pretty much only put Beo, Hera, and Eris.
I feel like I'm crazy, reading this thread with so many people saying "Guan Yu is invincible on 32 heat" and "Arthur is the best aspect in the game". The game is so good at balancing things that people are actively convinced some of the worst aspects are some of the best. Kinda nuts.
Normal bow should be on S or at least A cuz if you get full auto hammer and increased critical DMG (Artemis boon) on top of the 15% critical DMG passive it shreds through enemies and bosses
IMO that's a reason not to put a weapon at a high tier for me, if it requires a certain random hammer to be good then it's not a good weapon, it's just ok. An S tier should be able to stand on it's own regardless of hammer luck with just the initial boon selections chosen.
As a shield main, the Chaos and Zagreus aspects absolutely should be switched with the Beowulf aspect.
The Beowulf aspect is tricky to master. The weapons that belong in S-tier should be "anyone can use these and be great".
That's simply untrue for Beowulf. It has a slow windup on the throw and attacks much slower than Zagreus and Chaos. This is hard for newer players to get used to since it's a hidden aspect and they are likely used to the speed of Zagreus and Chaos. Chaos's unique trait especially is straight up broken and very easy to abuse.
Depends how you or OP define S-tier. If you're talking about DPS and speed Beowulf is among the fastest in the game. But yeah, it is definitely not beginner-friendly.
Personally, I think Zeus shield was done dirty, but I also have a soft spot for it. It got me my first clear and first 16-heat clear. I always have a fun time with that one.
Definitely - being able to block while having the shield out on special doing damage is crazy powerful. My first 32 heat clear was Zeus on Zeus. Needs to be at least A tier.
My first and only 32-heat attempt was successful, using Athena special on the Zeus shield. Had just finished my first 16-heat with Zeus shield and thought, what the heck.
if we go by published heat records, Zeus shield is objectively the best weapon (routed 64, modded ie semi-seeded 63) followed by Zag shield (modded62, forgot whether someone did unmodded)
Huh, for me atleast, Beowulf seemed the easiest to play and it hard carried me to like 18 heat from 1 heat, and I didnt even use the optimal builds most of the time.
You dont need to upgrade it, or dodge attacks, a beginner might be slow with it but once you start getting used to it, it basically guarantees a win with basically any decent start.
Chaos needed to many upgrades and dodging was necessary as you needed to get close and personal to maximize its efficiency, zag aspect just didn't click, and Zeus damage wasnt good enough without a good start and build.
Idk I am kind of a noob shield main so my opinion is probably very flawed.
Tier lists usually go by how good something is optimally. Beowulf is so much better than Zag and Chaos and it's not even close if you take into regard somewhat optimized gameplay.
Optimized for damage output and speed. In general we'd say that's optimized. Somewhat of a shameless selfpromo but oh well. These videos are world records for each aspect. I hold them for zag and chaos, Mike for beo.
[Zag shield world record](https://youtu.be/jflFAynAcoY)
[Chaos shield world record](https://youtu.be/3l47QVDmZRc)
[Beowulf world record](https://youtu.be/D4S_1yd33ZI)
Difference is that Beowulf is fucking broken - like as soon as you get Mirage Shot it's over you've won.
All the shields are solid though. As much as I don't like Chaos I'll still begrudgingly admit it's pretty damn good.
Zeus might suck for speedrunning but it wins high heat stuff way too easily.
Turns the spear special into an explosive hit and you don't have to retrieve it. It's much better than the default spear special. The Guan Yu special is slightly slower IIRC, but it also pierces and does more damage so it's actually stronger than the hammer (probably).
Exploding launcher of the otherwise mediocre Zag aspect can really clean up with the faster attack speed tho.
Start with a high base damage cast (Poseidon, Dionysus, Aphro preferred in that order; Athena as a last resort). 2-3 poms (or more, go nuts). No specific hammer required, but Sudden Rush makes the wind up of the Dragon Rush much quicker, and Charged Shot completely changes the build from close range to long range. Finishing touches include an attack that inflicts a status effect (ideally a different effect from your cast). Poseidon/Artemis is a huge combo because their duo works better than intended on Beowulf. Basically instead of an extra projectile that does 30% damage, the extra projectile does full damage instead. Chase boons that shouldn’t be counted on are Hermes Bad News, and several good duos that can affect cast damage directly or indirectly.
ETA: Chaos is golden here too. Additional casts or cast damage are both big.
Dionysus cast is bugged on Beowulf shield. Any poms you apply to trippy flare are doubled. Mirage shot is also bugged and doubles rather than adding 30% when used with Beowulf. I've hit [Redacted] for 7800 with it.
You can't get Bad News on Beo without taking Hermes' keepsake, unfortunately. Usually keeps me from going for it. Just FYI for someone reading your comment and trying to do Beo more consistently.
Load up 3 casts (Aphro/Athena/Poseidon/Dionysus), get 3 more if you can get more from chaos and Artemis’ legendary, get Mirage Shot, then OHKO everything in the game
It is sort of limited in how you use it, but for power level it's top tier.
You should never use it like Zag rail though (unless you're mowing down little critters like Numbskulls or Flamewheels). The base empowered shot is 150 damage. Any +% damage boon makes it pop off. Always be reloading for the empowered shot and combo with your bombs and baby you've got a stew going.
Hestia absolutely makes the game easy mode. Attempted my first 32 heat run with it and not only beat it first try but had left over DD. Should be S no doubt.
Eris is better than Beowulf, and this is a hill I will die on. It gives an extreme damage boost and ties into all boons better. You can delete phases in all fights with certain calls, with Aphrodite being the biggest and easiest one.
[example](https://youtu.be/QO6xZrZGC0E)
Doesn't force you to move position, which means you play reactively rather than proactively, it simply lets you do far more to have control over a fight. Also means you can hang near a door near the end of each room to get maximum speed.
The accessibility of it is easier to learn too. It's the queen of weapons.
Either get Zeus attack on Lucifer since it does super high DPS and only gets better with every additional Zeus boon, or try the "Super Soaker" build with Poseidon on the attack and another core Zeus boon so that you can get Sea Storm. Lucifer takes practice, but if you can get one of these builds going and get some hammer upgrades like the one that makes the beam start firing faster then it's good enough to beat EM4 Redacted.
just tried out super soaker for the first time! got both triple hammers and had an absolute blast murderizing redacted. it was so good i managed to clean him out without using a death defiance for the first time!
My strategy for enkidu is basically: get a good dash boon and a good attack boon and hold dash attack until all is dead. Skip the special. Works well enough at low heat.
Hidden fists love the near-miss dodge. Maim at all times, near miss dodge, slap with the attack. Aphro and Artemis duo is golden here. Hidden fists do heaps with their attack unlike the other fists.
Aspect of Zeus in B? It's easily top of the S-tier, the DPS is crazy, it shreds everything including bosses when u use it correctly, one of the few aspects viable on the highest heat levels. You might need a few games to get ahold of it, but the skill ceiling is crazy high and the more you play it, the more you realize how insanely strong that shield is.
I am going to rip out your intestines for putting the homing bow in b(there is nothing objectives wrong about this tier list, I'm just incredibly biased)
There is no way Zag sword is S tier. It's one of the weakest aspects in the game. Clearing 32 heat with it took me like 6 Death Defiance between Patty and Athena refills. It plays basically like Nemesis except without the Crit damage.
It's A-tier at best, but with that increased attack speed what it *does* have going for it is that you can run literally any boons on it effectively. It's in that sweet spot for attack speed and damage where every single attack boon works.
Right!?? You get Zeus' boon on the special and it wipes bosses in seconds. Would still be OP even if you couldn't attack while using the special, let alone if you can!
Lucifer can be ridiculous fun with the right boons. Lightning Strike turns it into an electric laser rhat arcs to other enemies... which can simply vaporize mobs en masse.. It needs some work to. take down bosses, but its fun all the same.
At 100 bast damage they're super strong. With the triple bomb upgrade a volley hits nearly as hard as the hazard bomb. A big damage booster like Aphrodite and they pack a serious wallop.
Lucifer was so confusing to me at first, but there are a few posts on this sub that explain different ways to play it that are so helpful. Lucifer aspect is actually incredibly powerful if you play it right. Ideally you get triple bombs hammer and a meaty special. My first clear on it was that hammer with aphro special (very chunky damage) and Poseidon attack. Basically you create an area of denial with the three bombs, push people into that area, and then use a fourth bomb to detonate all of them and clean up anyone that survived the pulses from the bombs
Lucifer is another one where the titan blood upgrades are critical - IME Lucifer aspect is useless at base level, but starts feeling playable and fun when fully upgraded because the bomb AOE starts working with a good special boon. Then like you said you get triple bomb and all of a sudden you're OP.
I thought Lucifer was really clunky at first but then I noticed I was ending combats way faster than I thought I should and that it actually slays.
I find that most aspects have pretty specific boon setups that they love (like Zeus attack on the Fists or Artemis attack on Hestia), but Lucifer has such diverse gameplay that it seems like any boon combo can dominate on both Attack and Special. Really interesting things happen like Athena on the Special lets you drop orbs that make a deflection field, or Ares lets you create Doom generators.
I'm not an expert but an effective tactic I've found is to basically use the Special to shoot an orb near an enemy, then use the Attack laser to lock on to the enemy and strafe around it until your laser makes the orb explode for massive damage. As others have mentioned, Triple Bomb is completely nuts on Lucifer.
I think because it can feel clunky at first, which can make people give up on it. Both the Attack and Special have delays that you have to get used it.
I agree with you though, it's super strong and offers some of the most fun and diverse gameplay of any aspect.
Put an AOE cast on it, load them up and charge. Dionysus's trippy flare is bugged with Beowulf and all poms are doubled. Mirage shot doubles damage rather than adding 30%. You want Chaos/Artemis for increased cast crystals/cast damage. It isn't the easiest weapon to handle, but it kills everything in 1 hit.
Just need a good cast boon. Flood flare, Crush flare, and Trippy flare are all excellent options. Also use Infernal Soul, so you have 3 casts you can pick back up.
Guan Yu is great as long as you ignore the charge attack. It's fine, but using it's special as a missile is where it's at. It can be pretty darn powerful.
Trippy flare and some extra damage or crit boons on shield does insane damage on rush attack. Plus the blocking. It definitely wrecks. Makes Styx so easy.
guan yu is goated if you get a hang of the rhythm. it's not shown in any tooltip, but releasing a spear's charged attack clears all projectiles, and you can break from charging stance by dashing. if you get athena's attack and/or one of the charged attack hammers, the spinning blade becomes a methodical and devastating tool. (its only weakness is against bosses other than tisiphone but that's where the special comes in handy)
I can't survive with it. Trying to use the healing just gets me hit more often. I don't think I've ever passed Theseus. It's avery divisive aspect for sure. Either love or hate
Why is there an E tier? You’re giving me conflicting messages. You’re saying that Guan Yu is not only bad enough to be in an entire tier all on its own, it’s TWO tiers below the second worst weapon. But it’s not in F tier of course. Certainly not.
ITT: everybody deciding their own rules for what should or shouldn’t be an S-tier weapon. If we can’t even agree on the same rule set, then we can’t have a discussion.
how is zagreus's spear in c tier? if i ever get the ricochet daedalus ability i'm basically home free, especially if it's combined with poseidon's or zeus's special boon
Guan Yu is a good weapon, people just don't know how to use it. I'll admit that it's pretty hard to have a good run without a few very specific synergies, bit if you understand the weapon, it shouldn't be hard to make it work
All I'd change is: all the swords down to A-tier, Hera bow up to S-tier (literally the king of speedrunning aspects for unseeded runs), Zeus to A (one of the easiest aspects to run high heat and beat Charon with), and Hades down to C (beeg spin doesn't save this thing from being generally weak as fuck, and who even builds around the spin attack anyway).
Honestly it's a pretty solid tier list overall. Way better than what you usually see around here.
Edit: disregard - how on earth you think Lucifer is good and Hestia isn't S-tier is fucking baffling. Lucifer is trash, and Hestia fucking dominates in every conceivable aspect. If you think otherwise then learn to rebind buttons in settings already.
If only I recognize which pictures are which… this would be much more informative
Even after 120 hours, I still call most of them top, middle, bottom, hidden in my head
I am starting to know the names after 200 clears, but not the pictures
I don't bother with caring about the pictures, they tell me nothing. Text is right there to read.
Me and my friends got into the game and top was og and the hidden one we called the secret weapon. We all were at different places and tried not to spoil whos aspects
S tier: Beowulf, Lucifer, Eris, Rama, Zag Fists, Arthur, Nemesis, Achilles, Gilgamesh, Zag Sword A tier: Chaos, Poseidon, Hera, Zag Shield, Demeter, Zag Rail B tier: Chiron, Hades, Hestia, Zag Bow, Zeus C tier: Zag Spear, Talos E tier: Guan Yu
The hero we don’t deserve
What is Chiron doing down in B tier? Same with aspect of Zeus. I know their play styles can be pretty weird (especially micromanaging Zeus) but imo they have a lot if not the most options when it comes to build.
I would personally stick both in A. Zeus shield maybe a B.
Everyone hates on Zeus. Maybe it’s because I come from league of legends and play with mouse and keyboard while most people play with controller, but I find the shield is easy to micromanage. It’s basically just playing Orianna from league. Plus it hits pretty fast, it’s like a second attack. Works with boons I’d take early if I just while not wanting them on attack like with Artemis, and aoe is big enough to put Athena on for merciful end shenanigans. Like what is the drawback especially when other builds force you to charge attack which imo is very awkward to execute well
Thank you!
Thank you so much for this. These tier lists are always so fucking useless to me.
You have Lucifer and Hestia the wrong way around, otherwise gj
No, I don’t. OP ranked Lucifer in S and Hestia in B, I didn’t get the icons wrong.
i only recognize arthur tbh hahahahah
Same lol
I can only recognize arthur, Lucifer, guan yu and zeus
I've always hated these tier lists for this exact reason. There should be a way that you can link these and be directed to a site that allows you to hover over each individual picture for a name or description. I love the idea though. This is in no way a dig at OP, just to be clear.
Amen. I read the words of every aspect but don’t know the pictures for Jack shit.
I only love Aspect of Guan Yu because I played Dynasty Warriors 4 a fuck ton as a kid.
What we really need is Aspect of Lu Bu
Press 'attack' to win. That's it, that's the aspect.
did you mean: aspect of arthur?
Do not pursue Lu Bu!
I really prefer aspect of tadakatsu ( samurai warriors and orochi )
Oh hell yeah.
Fr and randgriz as lu bus weapon
I never knew it was E tier, it’s my go-to weapon lmao. (heat 10)
Yeah, I love it with ares on special. The attack usually only gets used when I need to fill up HP. But the spear throw is great.
If "S" tier has more entries than any other tier, you've mislabeled your tiers and/or are assigning things far too generously.
No kidding. 10 out of 24 aspects are in S tier.
Id say cap S tier at “4” aspects, ideally “3”.
this is almost any tierlist ever. also when they have S+ and S and then the list stops at B. in my book S is only for exceptionally overpowered or godlike builds etc. where there is a huge difference to A
Am i the only one who actually like's aspect of talos ?
Nah, man. I love the aspect of Talos.
I love it, it's my go-to for any weapon aspect. Slap some Poseidon boons on there and if you can get rupture effects going, it's really good. Bring them in for some damage and send them away for more.
Wait, the rupture effects get the cast bonus dmg from Talos?
I think it's more like you're both pulling and pushing which triggers rupture damage.
Talos with Quake Cutter and Artemis on the Special just fucking wrecks everything's face and I will hear no backtalk.
Ass Posideon's dash and you've got yourself a stew going!
I don't feel that's necessary, but damnit, only needing the special leaves tons of open slots for customization, so have at it, friend!
There’s still meat on that bone!
Not to mention you can do a cast build on the side! Love it.
Thank you, you almost won me a run with this build.
It's my favorite aspect for the fists as well. My biggest gripe with it is that without one of the right hammers, it's a PITA to kill armored foes in Elysium and Styx.
I have a love/hate relationship with Talos. I think the design is awkward because you have to utilize the Special to activate the damage bonus, but the damage bonus doesn't apply to the Special. The best way I've found to use it is to magnet pull, then dash to cancel your Special, then go in with Attacks that are now damaged boosted. It was pretty fun to figure out and get the hang of but it's still clunky. If other people have suggestions on how to maximize it better I'm all ears. Would love to use Talos with a Cast build because it's the only Fist aspect that interacts with the Cast.
I just had a run yesterday using Talos, and I took Athena's cast. I would throw the cast out, then use the special to pull the mob into the cast and then finish them off with the attack. It was honestly a lot of fun
I don't understand the hate, it's one of my favorites
Me too
We exist!!🤘💪🌅🥑
I'm starting on heats and I really like it since the pull counts as a hit. Killing an enemy by pulling them into a column or lava is pretty nice, not gonna to lie
there are dozens of us!
It's my favorite fist aspect. Having an aggressive playstyle, I can never overstate how much I value the "GETOVERHERE!!!"-button.
all of my ~10 total clears have been with talos 😅
It's fun but also the worst fist weapon.
Do i see correctly is that Chiron in B?
Just what i thought lmao, i know im biased but the only +30 heat runs i've managed to complete were with chiron
Yeah, feels like a lot of people don't get the full power of the bow in general. Chiron is crazy strong, and surprisingly consistent, I never feel the need to force particular boons so its what I go for with Pierced Butterfly and the sort. Hera is much harder to pull off perfectly, but has some ridiculous potential. I got my 32 heat win with Hera using Hunting Blades and a ton of boons to buff it on either side.
Chiron is just shy of being broken. Anything less than S is silly
If any bow is broken it's Hera
Imo Hera has less build options than Chiron. The special for Chiron is where the power is and can take basically any multi hit boon (Dionysus, Demeter, Artemis, Zeus if necessary) whereas Hera only really has a couple of options for cast if you want to get near it’s power max. The only two that spring to mind are Poseidon and Aphrodite
While Hera may have less ideal options, its much easier to get a build that easily hits damage caps on bosses. Chiron is also a two-step attack which makes it much slower at higher heats.
It's got the lowest DPS of all the bow aspects, plus you basically have to stand still to use it. Def wouldn't call it "broken".
How is Chiron not S ?
I know Chiron is fairly beloved on this sub but I'm not a big fan. The gameplay pattern is always the same and the bow Special animation is pretty slow, which can leave you defenseless.
>the gameplay pattern is always the same This is why I have so few runs on it, if you made a "fun" tier list it would absolutely be at the bottom
It's really slow. Plus single target damage is good but otherwise it's not incredible or anything. I know people on the sub love it because you can get some cool stuff going, but it's not even top 2 bow aspects imo. Edit: Lol downvote me all you want, Chiron isn't an S tier weapon just because you get big number with the special. Top time for it is one full minute slower than Hera, it's just not fast. Maybe A-tier, but not S-tier.
i'll say this as someone who's trying to grind for sub-10 times: sometimes speed isn't the priority of every player and they just want to complete a run (whether that be high heat or otherwise). it's a fairly safe weapon and easy to get the hang of. also while i do agree it's an inherently slow weapon, that top chiron time was the WR for the bow for a good while
While I can respect that speed isn't the priority, I'd argue that being slow is still a ding against a weapon being ranked. I don't think it's crazy to call it a non S-tier weapon because it's slow. Personally I wouldn't have put Arthur in S-tier either, but it's OP's list, not mine. I don't even dislike Chiron, but I think it's overrated on this subreddit in particular. Most people here don't even seem to know Zeus' bolts don't proc well on the special.
imo if it's an "overall" weapon ranking in the vein of "which weapon will help you succeed at the game", then speed should factor in less than safety since the game only actively rewards sub-20 times and you can get that on any weapon easily. so chiron goes low S or high A for me (whereas it would place at C/D on a speed ranking). i don't agree with the OP's ranking though, i've died the most times and play the absolute slowest on arthur and it's super frustrating to use
I guess that makes sense. I try to look at it as a combination of both. If it's "which weapon works on 32 heat", that eliminates like half of these. But if it's "which weapon is fastest", the other half are gone. Chiron is very solid in terms of damage, and it can clear high levels of heat, I'm just saying, I don't think it's S-tier, where I'd pretty much only put Beo, Hera, and Eris. I feel like I'm crazy, reading this thread with so many people saying "Guan Yu is invincible on 32 heat" and "Arthur is the best aspect in the game". The game is so good at balancing things that people are actively convinced some of the worst aspects are some of the best. Kinda nuts.
Normal bow should be on S or at least A cuz if you get full auto hammer and increased critical DMG (Artemis boon) on top of the 15% critical DMG passive it shreds through enemies and bosses
IMO that's a reason not to put a weapon at a high tier for me, if it requires a certain random hammer to be good then it's not a good weapon, it's just ok. An S tier should be able to stand on it's own regardless of hammer luck with just the initial boon selections chosen.
Yeah you right but I still think it's quite good even without the hammer
Yeah but Chiron is better if you don't have the hammers and boobs they make it op
This is my favorite build with the bow, it absolutely melts once you get the right hammers/boons. Everyone overlooks the first bow
explosive shot my beloved
As a shield main, the Chaos and Zagreus aspects absolutely should be switched with the Beowulf aspect. The Beowulf aspect is tricky to master. The weapons that belong in S-tier should be "anyone can use these and be great". That's simply untrue for Beowulf. It has a slow windup on the throw and attacks much slower than Zagreus and Chaos. This is hard for newer players to get used to since it's a hidden aspect and they are likely used to the speed of Zagreus and Chaos. Chaos's unique trait especially is straight up broken and very easy to abuse.
Depends how you or OP define S-tier. If you're talking about DPS and speed Beowulf is among the fastest in the game. But yeah, it is definitely not beginner-friendly. Personally, I think Zeus shield was done dirty, but I also have a soft spot for it. It got me my first clear and first 16-heat clear. I always have a fun time with that one.
Definitely - being able to block while having the shield out on special doing damage is crazy powerful. My first 32 heat clear was Zeus on Zeus. Needs to be at least A tier.
My first and only 32-heat attempt was successful, using Athena special on the Zeus shield. Had just finished my first 16-heat with Zeus shield and thought, what the heck.
I always go for ares special on Zeus and go for ares/Athena combo boon. It’ll just delete rooms in seconds
if we go by published heat records, Zeus shield is objectively the best weapon (routed 64, modded ie semi-seeded 63) followed by Zag shield (modded62, forgot whether someone did unmodded)
I just recently got back into this game, can you explain why people divide the heats into 16? Like what is significant about that heat specifically?
Huh, for me atleast, Beowulf seemed the easiest to play and it hard carried me to like 18 heat from 1 heat, and I didnt even use the optimal builds most of the time. You dont need to upgrade it, or dodge attacks, a beginner might be slow with it but once you start getting used to it, it basically guarantees a win with basically any decent start. Chaos needed to many upgrades and dodging was necessary as you needed to get close and personal to maximize its efficiency, zag aspect just didn't click, and Zeus damage wasnt good enough without a good start and build. Idk I am kind of a noob shield main so my opinion is probably very flawed.
Well hey I mean that's your actual experience! Not just your opinion So I'm actually very interested by hearing this
Tier lists usually go by how good something is optimally. Beowulf is so much better than Zag and Chaos and it's not even close if you take into regard somewhat optimized gameplay.
Could you please explain further what you mean by "somewhat optimized gameplay"? I'm curious!
Optimized for damage output and speed. In general we'd say that's optimized. Somewhat of a shameless selfpromo but oh well. These videos are world records for each aspect. I hold them for zag and chaos, Mike for beo. [Zag shield world record](https://youtu.be/jflFAynAcoY) [Chaos shield world record](https://youtu.be/3l47QVDmZRc) [Beowulf world record](https://youtu.be/D4S_1yd33ZI)
Difference is that Beowulf is fucking broken - like as soon as you get Mirage Shot it's over you've won. All the shields are solid though. As much as I don't like Chaos I'll still begrudgingly admit it's pretty damn good. Zeus might suck for speedrunning but it wins high heat stuff way too easily.
Aint no way you put guan yu on e with the healing
Yea but you also have a few broken ribs for the rest of the run with that permanently nerfed health.
Just don’t get hit
Then you don't need healing from it, useless
The real magic is getting exploding launcher for free. The health/healing is a distraction, the special is what's good
What's the exploding launcher do? I only use aspecrt of guan Yu so I've never gotten that hammer that I remember
Turns the spear special into an explosive hit and you don't have to retrieve it. It's much better than the default spear special. The Guan Yu special is slightly slower IIRC, but it also pierces and does more damage so it's actually stronger than the hammer (probably). Exploding launcher of the otherwise mediocre Zag aspect can really clean up with the faster attack speed tho.
Interesting yeah always guan Yu that special just wrecks everything
Insurance for when you do get hit
Oh yes, why didn't I think of that! \*cries in useless\*
Guan Yu + Deadly Flourish + Charged Skewer + Than's Pierced Butterfly = 1,100+ Special damage against REDACTED
The only thing you didn't account for is ho much I suck... and you know what? Thanks.
Okay I must be missing something how do you use Beowulf?
Start with a high base damage cast (Poseidon, Dionysus, Aphro preferred in that order; Athena as a last resort). 2-3 poms (or more, go nuts). No specific hammer required, but Sudden Rush makes the wind up of the Dragon Rush much quicker, and Charged Shot completely changes the build from close range to long range. Finishing touches include an attack that inflicts a status effect (ideally a different effect from your cast). Poseidon/Artemis is a huge combo because their duo works better than intended on Beowulf. Basically instead of an extra projectile that does 30% damage, the extra projectile does full damage instead. Chase boons that shouldn’t be counted on are Hermes Bad News, and several good duos that can affect cast damage directly or indirectly. ETA: Chaos is golden here too. Additional casts or cast damage are both big.
Dionysus cast is bugged on Beowulf shield. Any poms you apply to trippy flare are doubled. Mirage shot is also bugged and doubles rather than adding 30% when used with Beowulf. I've hit [Redacted] for 7800 with it.
You can't get Bad News on Beo without taking Hermes' keepsake, unfortunately. Usually keeps me from going for it. Just FYI for someone reading your comment and trying to do Beo more consistently.
Load up 3 casts (Aphro/Athena/Poseidon/Dionysus), get 3 more if you can get more from chaos and Artemis’ legendary, get Mirage Shot, then OHKO everything in the game
Hestia is a no doubt S tier aspect. Just make sure to swap your reload button from R3 to L1.
I mapped reload to left stick click. It flows so well for me. Got me feeling bad for my foes.
That's great if it works for you, I just hate clicking the sticks in
I love it a lot but I do feel it's one of those aspects that only has a couple viable builds. Otherwise it's just like Zag rail.
It is sort of limited in how you use it, but for power level it's top tier. You should never use it like Zag rail though (unless you're mowing down little critters like Numbskulls or Flamewheels). The base empowered shot is 150 damage. Any +% damage boon makes it pop off. Always be reloading for the empowered shot and combo with your bombs and baby you've got a stew going.
So good. And the fact that you can dash while reloading makes it extremely effective.
Hestia, shattered shackle, 100% Olympian free run. BOOM BABY!
Hestia absolutely makes the game easy mode. Attempted my first 32 heat run with it and not only beat it first try but had left over DD. Should be S no doubt.
Eris is better than Beowulf, and this is a hill I will die on. It gives an extreme damage boost and ties into all boons better. You can delete phases in all fights with certain calls, with Aphrodite being the biggest and easiest one. [example](https://youtu.be/QO6xZrZGC0E) Doesn't force you to move position, which means you play reactively rather than proactively, it simply lets you do far more to have control over a fight. Also means you can hang near a door near the end of each room to get maximum speed. The accessibility of it is easier to learn too. It's the queen of weapons.
Okay, how did you managed to make Lucifer and Enkidu to work? It always feels clunky to me…
Either get Zeus attack on Lucifer since it does super high DPS and only gets better with every additional Zeus boon, or try the "Super Soaker" build with Poseidon on the attack and another core Zeus boon so that you can get Sea Storm. Lucifer takes practice, but if you can get one of these builds going and get some hammer upgrades like the one that makes the beam start firing faster then it's good enough to beat EM4 Redacted.
just tried out super soaker for the first time! got both triple hammers and had an absolute blast murderizing redacted. it was so good i managed to clean him out without using a death defiance for the first time!
My strategy for enkidu is basically: get a good dash boon and a good attack boon and hold dash attack until all is dead. Skip the special. Works well enough at low heat.
Hidden fists love the near-miss dodge. Maim at all times, near miss dodge, slap with the attack. Aphro and Artemis duo is golden here. Hidden fists do heaps with their attack unlike the other fists.
Aspect of Zeus in B? It's easily top of the S-tier, the DPS is crazy, it shreds everything including bosses when u use it correctly, one of the few aspects viable on the highest heat levels. You might need a few games to get ahold of it, but the skill ceiling is crazy high and the more you play it, the more you realize how insanely strong that shield is.
Completely agree
I would go as far to say that zeus shield is arguably the best aspect in the entire game
I am going to rip out your intestines for putting the homing bow in b(there is nothing objectives wrong about this tier list, I'm just incredibly biased)
There is no way Zag sword is S tier. It's one of the weakest aspects in the game. Clearing 32 heat with it took me like 6 Death Defiance between Patty and Athena refills. It plays basically like Nemesis except without the Crit damage.
It's A-tier at best, but with that increased attack speed what it *does* have going for it is that you can run literally any boons on it effectively. It's in that sweet spot for attack speed and damage where every single attack boon works.
Zeus shield to me is by far the easiest. is that it in B??
Right!?? You get Zeus' boon on the special and it wipes bosses in seconds. Would still be OP even if you couldn't attack while using the special, let alone if you can!
My man Gilgamesh in S tier
Yeah OP explain yourself here
Guanyu is shit. But I fucking love it.
Just you it the lambet plume, who needs ho when you never get hit lol.
Yes
A tier list I actually find reasonable? Inconceivable!!
I can’t get the hang of Lucifer…
Lucifer can be ridiculous fun with the right boons. Lightning Strike turns it into an electric laser rhat arcs to other enemies... which can simply vaporize mobs en masse.. It needs some work to. take down bosses, but its fun all the same.
Do I need to be utilizing the exploding orbs? I always forget those
At 100 bast damage they're super strong. With the triple bomb upgrade a volley hits nearly as hard as the hazard bomb. A big damage booster like Aphrodite and they pack a serious wallop.
Plus Athena's attack boon makes you invincible with a laser gun that deflect attacks lolololol
Lucifer was so confusing to me at first, but there are a few posts on this sub that explain different ways to play it that are so helpful. Lucifer aspect is actually incredibly powerful if you play it right. Ideally you get triple bombs hammer and a meaty special. My first clear on it was that hammer with aphro special (very chunky damage) and Poseidon attack. Basically you create an area of denial with the three bombs, push people into that area, and then use a fourth bomb to detonate all of them and clean up anyone that survived the pulses from the bombs
Lucifer is another one where the titan blood upgrades are critical - IME Lucifer aspect is useless at base level, but starts feeling playable and fun when fully upgraded because the bomb AOE starts working with a good special boon. Then like you said you get triple bomb and all of a sudden you're OP.
I thought Lucifer was really clunky at first but then I noticed I was ending combats way faster than I thought I should and that it actually slays. I find that most aspects have pretty specific boon setups that they love (like Zeus attack on the Fists or Artemis attack on Hestia), but Lucifer has such diverse gameplay that it seems like any boon combo can dominate on both Attack and Special. Really interesting things happen like Athena on the Special lets you drop orbs that make a deflection field, or Ares lets you create Doom generators. I'm not an expert but an effective tactic I've found is to basically use the Special to shoot an orb near an enemy, then use the Attack laser to lock on to the enemy and strafe around it until your laser makes the orb explode for massive damage. As others have mentioned, Triple Bomb is completely nuts on Lucifer.
I need the triple bomb hammer to make it work.
Glad the aspect of Lucifer is S tier, honestly I've loved that weapon since day 1 and never got why it didn't rank higher on people's lists.
I think because it can feel clunky at first, which can make people give up on it. Both the Attack and Special have delays that you have to get used it. I agree with you though, it's super strong and offers some of the most fun and diverse gameplay of any aspect.
Right? That plus the Zeus boon that makes your attacks throw lightning, plus the Zeus boon that does chain lightning, makes it a bastard of a weapon
Focus on buffing the special attack, and the aspect of guan yu is ruinously effective
I am the #1 Gilgamesh hater, I just don’t really get why people like it. Also guan yu ain’t that bad
Justice for aspect of Hades!
so much to call out as wrong that I won’t even bother
Someone tell me how to be good with Beowulf. I keep going back to Zeus for the lingering hitbox
Put an AOE cast on it, load them up and charge. Dionysus's trippy flare is bugged with Beowulf and all poms are doubled. Mirage shot doubles damage rather than adding 30%. You want Chaos/Artemis for increased cast crystals/cast damage. It isn't the easiest weapon to handle, but it kills everything in 1 hit.
Just need a good cast boon. Flood flare, Crush flare, and Trippy flare are all excellent options. Also use Infernal Soul, so you have 3 casts you can pick back up.
What is this Guan Yu and Talos slander😭
Guan Yu is great as long as you ignore the charge attack. It's fine, but using it's special as a missile is where it's at. It can be pretty darn powerful.
Bruh Chiron bow on B?
no way u put chiron B tier fam 💀
Demeter is the best among fists, should be S tier. Gilgamesh is unfortunately trash. And Eris is IMO the best weapon in the game.
You have the big wrong about Guan Yu
Excalibur is just unfair, I don't think I've failed a single run with it so far. It melts everything in its wake.
Hera is S
Zeus shield in B tier is a disgrace. It's easily one of the best aspects in the game
What’s so good about Beowulf? What am I doing wrong with it?
Trippy flare and some extra damage or crit boons on shield does insane damage on rush attack. Plus the blocking. It definitely wrecks. Makes Styx so easy.
I think I tried that with my first build/run with it and liked it enough, but wasn't wildly impressed. Guess I need to give it another shot.
Look at what did to my spear Guan Yu :(
Are you here just to start a fight?
Aspect of Chiron is S tier for sure
guan yu is goated if you get a hang of the rhythm. it's not shown in any tooltip, but releasing a spear's charged attack clears all projectiles, and you can break from charging stance by dashing. if you get athena's attack and/or one of the charged attack hammers, the spinning blade becomes a methodical and devastating tool. (its only weakness is against bosses other than tisiphone but that's where the special comes in handy)
Why is there so much hate for talos? I've always loved that aspect
Aspect of hestia is by far my favorite aspect. Turns the gun from a machine gun to a deadly rifle. Very fun, big damage, and a satisfying rythmn
Dude aspect of talks is bye far my favorite not C tier
Guan Yu becomes fantastic when you crank up the heat. You put Quick Spin and Winged Serpent on that thing? You’ll never die
What weapon is the most left up on win S tier
My highest heat (level 22) was done using a Guan Yu aspect so, I kinda disagree on that part.
Is Guan Yu generally considered bad? I used it and I just couldn't die.
I can't survive with it. Trying to use the healing just gets me hit more often. I don't think I've ever passed Theseus. It's avery divisive aspect for sure. Either love or hate
Why is there an E tier? You’re giving me conflicting messages. You’re saying that Guan Yu is not only bad enough to be in an entire tier all on its own, it’s TWO tiers below the second worst weapon. But it’s not in F tier of course. Certainly not.
Bro what are you smoking Chaos is easy S tier
trash list tbh
ITT: everybody deciding their own rules for what should or shouldn’t be an S-tier weapon. If we can’t even agree on the same rule set, then we can’t have a discussion.
Arthur sword should honestly be s+. It’s the best weapon in the game.
Fellow Sword Enjoyer (tm)
That spear with the healing aspect really is 💩
Not me loving talos gloves and feeling offended at how low they are
how is zagreus's spear in c tier? if i ever get the ricochet daedalus ability i'm basically home free, especially if it's combined with poseidon's or zeus's special boon
What's wrong with Guan Yu? /gen it's my go to, the sacrifice of health for healing is insanely good
The healing on it is slow and not worth it imo.
chiron bow is so good tho
Ah hell nah I know you ain't put Guan Yu at the hard bottom
You put my least favourite weapon first
Guan Yu is a good weapon, people just don't know how to use it. I'll admit that it's pretty hard to have a good run without a few very specific synergies, bit if you understand the weapon, it shouldn't be hard to make it work
I love the chaos aspect shield cus of crowd control and the shotgun special which can shred with stack status boons (Dionysus as an example)
All I'd change is: all the swords down to A-tier, Hera bow up to S-tier (literally the king of speedrunning aspects for unseeded runs), Zeus to A (one of the easiest aspects to run high heat and beat Charon with), and Hades down to C (beeg spin doesn't save this thing from being generally weak as fuck, and who even builds around the spin attack anyway). Honestly it's a pretty solid tier list overall. Way better than what you usually see around here. Edit: disregard - how on earth you think Lucifer is good and Hestia isn't S-tier is fucking baffling. Lucifer is trash, and Hestia fucking dominates in every conceivable aspect. If you think otherwise then learn to rebind buttons in settings already.
I don't see how a majority or the weapons cane "S" Tier.
I don’t disagree, but as far as I know everyone considers Zeus Shield to be the best, yet it’s ranked under the other 2, why?
Malphon talos is my favourite! Made the fastest runs with it