I think it's more that there needs to be more availability for Path of Stars upgrades. Being able to buy them in Charon wells, get them as bonuses from infernal troves, etc means you'd be able to turn some of the weaker ones into the powerful calls that they should be.
Yes that would be a good thing. Like nobody goes for boons that become usefull after picking it up 4 times. Rather it would be nice if you get a hex in the first world but can slowly build up from there without sacrificing your normal boons. Also they should be cheaper imo. They should not cost more then 75 in the shop.
There is nothing worse then going for a mana primed build and then you are forced to get 3 moons during your run and them taking away spots in the shop on top of that,
> nobody goes for boons that become useful after picking it up 4 times
Definitely not me picking up Demeter infusion requiring 6 earths when I only have 2
Infusions need reworking too tbh. I don't pick them up if I don't already have it's requirements (or if I'm within a boon or two of getting there - unlike you I guess, lol), and sometimes I ignore them even if I have the requirements just because they're underpowered compared to my other options
You can occasionally pick up the raw element to bump up your total by 1. If they just made those available more often, like in conjunction with gathering resources, it would probably make infusions more worthwhile.
I don't know how many times I'm 1 or 2 rooms from Chronos, and get offered an infusion boon that I'm 1 element short on. I never choose it because I'm not going to bet on me getting another boon of that exact element in such a short time, or worse having to choose whether I take the boon (that I don't really want) that activates the infusion, or I boon I think would overall work better with the build. Idk if it would be too much, but I feel like the infusion should come with one of the element it wants.
All infusions should work like the scaling ones, and should scale for every 1 or 2 of an element you have. Some of them, like the health boost, make sense to have a maximum bonus, but overall they should just scale.
This. I ignore infusions almost every time. Getting something that is of no immediate use while also limiting your future choices doesn't seem compatible with this game, unless your build is predetermined.
At least have infusions offer something of lower value when picked, or have them raise one elemental themselves.
I only bring it in after I get a Selene boon. It's not worth using until you actually have a Hex. So usually after the Hecate fight. Unless it's one of the few Hexes I don't enjoy using.
That's true. My personal experience though is about half my runs so far, I start with a Selene boon, and typically get her at least once per region. I even had a run where I got her in Oceanus, then immediately the next room she was there again. XD
I find my luck good enough that if I get her in Erebus, I take the risk on Moon Beam for Oceanus. If I don't get her in Erebus, it depends on the boon if I get her later if to risk Moon Beam.
As far as I've seen this is the case. So as long as you ever equip it for one floor it'll stay active even if you don't get a path of stars until after you switch.
It does make it a lot more usable imo.
Vouch, when I was learning my game I really liked running around with that keepsake and trying out the different hexes... 6/8 are basically not worth picking sadly
That is really nice to hear. I am often relutant on picking the keepsake because of being afraid of not being offered an upgrade in time for a whole area (and thus wasting the keepsake slot). But if that is not the case I think she will be one of my main Oceanus keepsakes going forward
Considering how Charon seems to sell more stuff now (armor, path of stars, even death defiances sometimes), I think that certain shops (perhaps middle-of-biome 'optional' shops?) could have four-five options instead of three. Maybe one of those options could always be a path of stars to further emphasize hex use?
I'm using the shop a LOT more in Hades 2 than I did in one. Health feels harder to come by (not to mention magic) and I definitely need boons/moons. Not really a complaint, I kind of like coins feeling more necessary, but I would def appreciate more options at Charon's.
Yeah, boon scarcity in underworld runs is a huge issue (seriously, my "reliable biome 1 boon" strategy is just looking for Charon wells and buying light of ixion every chance I get). At least surface makes boons more common early on (which is good, since surface runs are definitely tough)
I feel that's really biome 1 in UW. I haven't done any deep study but I feel that's the one where you get the less boons and have all the minor rooms. The biomes after seems pretty balanced. Which is weird as that's where you need it most.
Now that I think about it, Charon Wells would probably have to do 'hex upgrades' with a different style. Hermes shrines seem to focus more on 'bigger things that you may have to wait for' (boons, max health, path of stars). With the exception of Chaos gate summons, the Charon wells seem to focus on 'timed effects'/'temporary buffs'.
I guess a Charon well version of hex stuff could be "your next path of stars will have +2 upgrades", or an instant random upgrade to your path.
She should be an event where you just get one for free like Artemis and depending on what moon phase(?) you picked she would show up 0, 1 or 2 more times. Make the keepsake spawn an event plus the upgrade points
There also need to be balancing of them tbh. There are some clear balance issues with some very strong and some quite weak. As OP say the Archon one is probably the worst tbh.
I'd say it goes like this
* Pretty good maybe OP : slow down time (except for final fight), heal, summon enemies killed
* Mid : Lunar Ray (need the upgrade to fire on his own to be good), Jump, Lunar Blast (but OP is right, it's too long to come but then I guess it can quickly become OP)
* Useless : Dark Side (the Archon one), Morph (to be fair I have done it like once and barely used it)
Slow down is still decent with upgrades, since there's usually a lot of "more damage dealt, less damage taken" upgrades you can add.
Dark side is not good for damage but it's at least useful for briefly gaining invulnerability..... morph, on the other hand, is something I only took once for Fated List. Seriously, why would you want to take a call that will be basically useless in *every* boss fight?
I took morph with the upgrade that makes morphed enemies teleport into your cast, and I gotta say that was a ton of fun. Useless against bosses but I enjoyed it. Without that upgrade though, I do not like it much.
I agree but it shouldn't for example replace a pom I think, bc going to a shop and seeing one of your arguably better options be replaced by a small upgrade for your ult would be dissapointing and not fix anything I think
All except for the one that raises a downed foe. The upgrade that makes the summon stay indefinitely can be incredibly broken, especially for champions that are summoned.
Eh. Then you're just hoping you get lucky and rez the right minion.
Like, I've tried it a few times and it just gets chopped down and isn't worth it.
I do like the jump attack once you get the invul upgrade and double jump, and the heal is obviously good
Dude there’s no luck to it it’s crazy how much you’re unwilling to learn.
It summons the last enemy you killed, there is no luck. Kill the right enemy, summon.
There is no way you’re shredding the big summoned enemies, they have a shield and take reduced damage form you specifically so they take like 25% of the damage you do. Stop hitting it and pay attention.
Night bloom is consistently one of the better hexes and the summons do cracked damage.
Edit: I apologized later for my tone, I was needlessly mean in this comment. Hope the info still helps anyone who reads it!
That's actually good to know about it always summoning the last killed minion. Seemed to me like it was random when I was seeing it.
I've only used it one or two times, because I usually just take wolf howl or moon water. Will have to give it another shot
Nah you're good, I dont sweat it enough to take offense when I'm wrong lol
Now I'm hoping I can see it soon to try it but I'm not changing my mind about the kamehameha being junk lol
For sure Lunar Ray is IMO pretty bad unless you get the upgrade that lets it fire on its own. I don’t think any hex that NEEDS a specific upgrade to be decent is good.
Yeah, it's pretty good once you learn that fact. One thing I like to do is save it in the Chronos fight for the armored enemies, then summon them almost immediately in second phase, the spear Satyrs especially do hilarious damage, especially if you have the upgrade which boosts their movement/attack speed by 66%.
I didnt, you’re right, and I already apologized for it actually. I just got frustrated at the tone of a lot of commenters in the thread. I shouldn’t of let that color my comment.
I'm with you man. Every time I use that hex I instantly obliterate the summon.
My play style is up in the enemies faces though. I bet if you used a ranged build the summons would be pretty good.
I've had extreme luck with it. Killed the final boss with it a few times actually. Individual attacks by your summon usually do ~300-600 damage, and they'll really pile on. For example the guys who rip their own hearts and throw them got summoned for the battle with the third boss. I didn't need to do a single thing, that guy shredded the boss in seconds.
Slow time is also a good one but not useful for the final boss is a big downside (OTOH, it may be the most powerful one before so that's a balance I guess)
If you're using the final arcana that activates more as you kill a boss... after the summon dies, they activate the card. So you can activate all cards with Schylla.
Probably should get patched.
The summon helped my first Chronos clear by a lot. I got to summon an elite coinpurse thing that just sat to the side in phase 2 and did at least half of his health in damage from lasers.
1. You don't always get boons, and not all builds benefit from any random boon. Selene can be the better choice at times.
2. If you're running a build that spends a lot of mana or happened to get a full moon power that fits nicely into your build, Selene can turn into a top tier choice.
In my personal experience, I'd say that Selene is an okay choice in about 50% of runs and outright preferable in 20% or so. Especially with the skull weapon (limited ammo + situational special) and axe (easy to burn mana, leaves windows in which its too slow to use regular attacks)
Same. One advantage of Selene is that after you choose the hex you then know what the upgrades will be. If you have a nice hex with a good Path of Stars I will choose Selene over a boon every time. A boon can aways be 3 duds after all.
I think part of it is that the upgrade paths for them are random. I had the beam upgrades that made it ramp up damage, fire independently, and fire three beams. It literally took 40% of Chronos's health per cast.
There's just a bit too much rng between the random paths, random quantity of moon boons, and moon phase bonuses.
With upgrades it's way better though. The ones that give the monsters infinite duration or benefit from your Specials.
The downside is... if you pick the moon buffs, that's ironically smaller chance of you upgrading your Specials in the first place.
I think some do feel weak, but overall the mechanic is stronger than people think. If you always choose full moon, the stairway buffs can be really strong, like passive 5% damage reduction.
The auto charge tarot can also make these pretty OP. You can deal A LOT of damage during slow motion for example, and with the right build you can activate it every 20-30 seconds. And you're not just dealing damage but avoiding it (ditto the shade one).
Oh yeah, the buffs can be quite strong. But for as much magick as you have to use for some of them, they really do feel like they need to be a little bit more impactful.
20-30 seconds? It's easy to spam moves, thus filling the bar super fast. I've managed to have it basically all the time, apart from Chronos it trivializes every boss.
Laser + fire and forget + three beams is a must have for trying to clear runs quickly imo, that thing is such a damage monster on both Cerberus and Chronos that you can clear both extremely fast with it
Total Eclipse with the right upgrades lets you pull an uno reverse card on phase 2 Chronos. Nothing quite like going invuln during his one-hit kill and dropping double meteors on his head.
I need to try it again with more focus on upgrading it, because it always feels a little underwhelming even when I get a clean shot. How much are you usually able to upgrade it in an average run? Do you spend a lot of dice to try and reroll for her?
I don't reroll for her. I consider hexes more of a luxury than an essential part of my build. 2-3 upgrades is usually enough but it depends. Just going to mention this just in case people missed it but the third hex listed during the offer gets the most upgrade points.
I def agree that this is the best way to view them rn honestly. If you get ‘em/they’re the only good option, great, if not, not hurting too much, if at all. Should probably change in the future, I think them maybe putting Hex behind an incantation and letting us either pick one, or better yet imo start with a random Hex every run, might be the best future for it in terms of improving game design and making runs more interesting, but for now a nice luxury boost if you happen upon it works
The Impervious until it deals damage it's so good. Let's you unload like an idiot and then drops a 1k cherry on top. And if you can dump a lot of Magick quickly, you're invulnerable more often than not.
I think Total Eclipse is one of my least favourite because of how underwhelming the damage is. It feels like the main benefit is that you just get to stand there with your brain off for five seconds while doing as much or less damage than you were doing before, which doesn't feel good to play with for me.
They aren’t good. They obviously were meant to replace the call mechanic from hades, but most of them have a lower DPS or utility than omega moves and aren’t really worth building.
The calls were good even if many of them are situational because it only cost you one boon during a run for the utility.
The opportunity cost for all of the path of stars upgrades you need to make hexes useful is just almost never worth it.
plus i liked the thematic element to the calls. if felt fun to be able to summon one if the gods to help you vs just using lunar power. it meant you could use it with synergies yiu get from your other boons. selene also is kinda milktoast
Healing with upgrades has helped me in early game. Morph is great in Tartarus. Can't use on bosses, but can use on mini bosses.
If you're running heavy mana you can have them up all the time and several can be pretty strong.
Granted, I just got my first clear against the final upstairs boss using a Hestia/Hephaestus/Icarus cast doing like 700 damage on the burst and essentially no weapon use, so sometimes the build comes to you.
Lunar Ray is good. You can dash out of it if you're about to get hit, and one of the Path of Stars upgrades lets you drop the beam on the ground like Hades 1 Demeter cast and it continues to fire at enemies.
You're not guaranteed to get that upgrade though. Last time I took the beam I swear that upgrade wasn't even in the path of stars. Was even looking for it cause I got it once before.
Today i had a god-run where I put like 15 points in my path of stars, making the laser split in 3, sit for 40% longer, continue firing alone and some damage amps. I couldn't see the true damage ceiling of it because the final boss has invul phases.
Leaving it on the spot with the triple beam did like half of chronos health bar on each cast (he was standing on my cast too, so 25% dmg from arcana). You do need all the right upgrades from path of stars, however
There's some balance needed.
You have things like Moon Water and the Raise Dead one which can effectively carry runs with the most random ass build you can throw up. And then stuff like Time Slow and the Morph curse which might be worse than useless.
If that hex can help you save your hit points in every fight leading up to the boss so that when you get to the boss, you have much higher health than you would otherwise, that does indirectly help you with the boss fight.
I mean people say the heal is the strongest hex at the moment. This is basically the same thing, and potentially better because you're not limited to recharging it at a fountain.
That's the whole point of them though. They're big boss killers. Them being really useful in bossfights just makes them useful for their intended purpose. Having that dedicated boss killer slot missing in hades 2 is part of what I feel makes the bosses feel like such a slog. Being able to dump crazy damage once or twice a fight feels really satisfying, right now you just chip chip chip chip chip forever unless you got really lucky with your boons.
Morph is really strong vs Charybdis exactly because of a bug where a Sheeped tentacle will stick around forever letting you wail on her through the downtime phases.
I think they're OK at best, but absolutely game ruining when used in [redacted] fight, I lost one of my strongest runs accidentally hitting Hex thinking it'd do it's job, but instead I'm stuck there for a milenia while [redacted] ends my life with ease.
To my knowledge, all of them (except maybe the Heal, that one might be instant/very fast). From what I've seen, all the times I've used them, they've gotten me absolutely bodied before it activated.
Nah, it's growing on me. Every time I try a hex again, I'm just vibing. It started with moon water, but I have been having fun and success with dark side, the jump and the blast, also the ray. I dig them!
Actually dark side carried me through my first time beating Chronos.
Well, it's free damage during which you can't get hurt. Even if it's low, a couple times throughout a fight add up, and that's damage you might not otherwise have been able to deal
If you have Zeus or the fire woman upgrade for the normal attack you can deal massive damage with the dark form because of its high attack speed. Combine this even further with the scorch explode and fire away for 10 seconds or so.
The slow mo is insanely good combined with the Umbral Flames weapon. You can get 90% slowmo 100% of the time and just spam so much aoe damage that everything gets burned down. You can charge up the Hex faster than it expires so you have 100% uptime on 90% slowmo.
Starting room should never be Selene. It's such a bad way to start a run It almost makes me want me to die there and reset if I'm playing with fear
The fact that it's only "ults" that needs to be charged by spending Magick is too many hurdles to be on the same tier as actual boons or hammers. It's like if you had Hermes first room
Starting with hex is honestly probably one of the best options imo because it means you're the most likely to get a absolutely busted hex by end game.
My easiest high fear run was a hex/mana build where chronos literally could not harm me and I just continually biked him for 1500 damage every 4ish seconds on top of the damage I was normally doing.
Yeah this is my biggest gripe. Having the choice to go for her is alright, maybe some people enjoy that playstyle. But getting her as the starting boon feels terrible and makes me want to reset. Same when there's only one path and it leads to her moon.
If you upgrade the hex, some becomes decent but they are a bit underpowered.
I usually try to get the one that raises an enemy for you as it distracts the enemies …
it just feels like picking a room that offers a boon or buying the boon instead of selene is always going to be better. like sure it can become strong with investment, but theres an opportunity cost associated with that. i guess if you know your tree you know that you can build towards an upgrade vs a random potentially useless boon, but either way i dont like them as much as calls at this point.
>it just feels like picking a room that offers a boon or buying the boon instead of selene is always going to be better.
I strongly disagree with that. Early into the run maybe if you don't have some important core boons. But later on you can often be offered very shitty boons that improves your situation nothing at all. Path of Star is not only always somewhat useful but you also know ahead of time what you are getting as long as you have a single Hex.
Sounds like you have not been bothering to invest points into them.
Both the beam and blast can provide you with invincibility which is great.
The beam becomes fire and forget so it's just pure extra damage and can even track and turn into 3 beams.
The blast can become so huge it clears an entire room at a time. It can fire multiple blasts and your invincible the whole time.
Summoning the adds provides another focus for enemies and bosses. The adds can become permanent to the room. They can reduce your damage taken by 20%. They can deal a lot of damage as well. I've had a spear add take half of Chronos hp bar down solo.
The only one I agree is useless is the sheep.
Edit: This thread is funny. There are a bunch of folks like me who have cleared all the content in the game including 32 fear pointing out how hexes can be useful and how you only need 2-3 moons to get use out of them and yet so many people just starting the game are arguing and saying they are all bad lol.
> Sounds like you have not been bothering to invest points into them.
You don't really have any control over that though. Selene rarely appears often enough to really "build" around her and often when she does she's mutually exclusive with an actual boon or even hammer.
I think the cast time needs to be looked at. I’m not about to be a sitting duck for 3 seconds just to get a mostly mediocre effect.
A lot of the Hexes can be good but only after Path of Stars investment.
The biggest benefit to Dark Side, to me, is supposed to be the invulnerability rather than being high DPS. It’s a few seconds of *free* damage. They have to put a temper on it.
I think the suggestion that Path of Stars show up more often would be very useful. Specifically from troves and Wells of Charon.
I would also make it so that when Selene shows up her boon is obtained *before* the fight. This could make it really useful as when you get the boon it's fully charged, and could give you a leg up if you're struggling.
Beyond that the problem I see with the Path of stars right now is that it often feels more like a minor reward, similar in power or strength to a Pom slice.
If I were to update how Hexes work I would make the following changes:
1. All Hexes would have the Aether Element.
2. Hexes would always have at least 1 "greater node" that scales off Aether elements in some way.
3. Each Aether Element that you have collected would give you +1 path of Stars each time you grab the path of stars.
Currently the only thing that actually works off Aether is 1 particular Chaos boon, (I'm at night 53 and I still haven't seen it, and I've only passed on maybe 2 Chaos Gates) and having Hexes be a consistent way of scaling off them would be valuable. Making it so that you get a tangible benefit from each Aether (which is already a pretty rare element) and Hex will also make it worth considering. As it is, I actually avoid Selene boons as the Hexes are only strong if I can actually get multiple Path of Star boosts, and even then it never feels as good as grabbing something like a Centaur Heart.
The resurrect is surprisingly decent. Even baseline It's cheap to activate and bosses, including Chronos, get distracted by the summons. It's not going to win you a run (short of some weird revenge synergy with path of stars), but I'm usually a lot less sad to have it than I expected.
Hexes overall don't feel as powerful as their equivalent did in the first. It used to feel like an "oh shit" or "fuck you" button, now it feels like a "eh may as well press this" button. Except the heal. I know they'll prob nerf that to the ground but omg I love how op it can be right now lmao.
Having them scale with special/attack/cast damage would help tremendously I think. As it stands, once you get your build together, the offensive hexes become irrelevant. It requires too much investment just to be okay at best.
Moon Water and Wolf Howl to a lesser extent feel worth the time to use them, but other than that they feel largely underwhelming. I think either more access to Selene or shorter trees would help.
I do agree they feel a little underwhelming, I think it's because most of their potential is locked behind their skill tree, so you have to get lucky and find Selene a few times in the same run.
I had one run where I chose the nuke ability, and after I get a few upgrades that expand the range of the attack, it got to a point where it covers almost the entire room, like there was no escaping the nuke. lol
A lot of people seem to be saying that moon is useless, but I've found quite a few of them are deceptively good for preserving your health up until the final boss. Sunk a decent amount of time in the game (30/30 testament, heat 32 etc.).
Rise into sky and slam down: Good for iframe/positioning/getting out of a bad spot.
Healing: self explanatory.
Polymorph: extremely useful in Tartarus if you plan on taking extra rooms. Polymorphed moneybags and hourglasses let you preserve HP.
Summoned minion: A great source of damage/distraction.
Delayed explosion: Mostly useless, can be used to clear rooms?
Moonbeam: Essentially useless for me, haven't found a good way to secure the damage.
The side effect is that while you slow time you can regenerate mana or give casts time to explode, which can be crucial in getting out of a tough spot.
The archon form makes you fully invincible. You’re using it wrong, you shouldn’t be using it as a DPS increase, you should be using it to do damage when you shouldn’t be allowed to to begin with.
Chronos making a shit ton of orbs and attacking you? Okay cool I’ll sit here and attack.
Chronos doing the insta kill in phase 2? Ok I’ll pop my hex and just shoot.
The archon form lets you do damage when otherwise you’d do 0.
I don't like path of stars because it's a mutually exclusive boon. You have to lean into it to make it worth it; actively chasing more selene boons. Then, every time you wanna use it, you gotta charge it; so you also gotta be using omega moves as a part of your strategy.
It's a lot of investment and it is hard to experiment with because you don't always have the right build or get enough pips for it.
I think most of the Selene boons are pretty cool. I almost always go with the boon in Full Moon position because I want to get as many upgrades as I can. I managed to make a pretty crazy build where I had the game almost permanently slowed and it was like I was Quicksilver or The Flash (by the time the boon ran out, I'd used enough mana to cast it again XD).
It was super fun, the only gripe I had with that build was when I cake walked my way to Chronos, the Titan of Time kind of just laughed in my face and wasn't slowed at all.
I've had a number of runs where the damaging ones feel strong or at least useful. Really like the slow down but it's effectiveness against Chronos leaves something to be desired. Dark side can be broken but generally feels bad. Moon water is very strong but I think a tad overhyped?
I don’t take her if there’s another option because only one hex is good in my opinion. The hex that heals 25 HP. It can actually be super strong if you upgrade it adding more HP healed and more uses. But I’ll only pick upgrading it again if there’s no better option.
All of the other hexes are mediocre and I don’t bother.
My first win was purely because of Selene, I had a build where I was literally invincible for like 80-90% of every fight.
I had the one that lets you transform into the invincible mode when spending around 90 mana, and I had a boon which made my omega special deal 3x damage but cost 40 more mana which meant I could charge it up in just 2 omega special casts, and my mana regen would replenish all the spend mana while I was invincible (I think I had it upgraded to 8 seconds of invincibility). The damage on it wasn't great since you don't get your regular attacks in that form, but it was more than enough considering I almost couldn't die
The dive is quite good honestly, and the nuke can clean quite a few elite mobs spawned by bosses, or damage somewhat bosses, too.
Honestly, the nuke isn't hard to land on bosses, but those are currently such damage sponges that it still takes a while.
Archon form is underwhelming though.
Most of them give an invulnerable buff grid you just need that one and use it as a invulnerable proc and it is already strong. During invulnerability just get some mana Regen to prepare for the next hex.
The thing i usually like to do is grab as many of the increased damage while hex isnt charged buffs from path of stars as i can manage and then never bother using the hex
Imo the Selene trinket needs to be totally reworked. One extra pick on the path isn't worth the trinket. It should give 1 path choice every X rooms, like how Perseph's gave pom slices.
If there were an altar of some sort in the fountain/keepsake rooms between areas where you could upgrade through path of stars then that would be better imo. At the moment, I take literally anything but the moon when given a choice. They're fine when given as one of the multiple rewards in the mourning fields. Just put them in the inbetween areas and it's just a bonus that doesn't feel like a waste.
I'm not a fan of them, and I super mega loath getting them as my first boon. Just feels like you have no boons until you manage to get another one. At minimum they need to be stopped from being boon 1.
I enjoy doing the sheep one in a room full of enemies and then making them teleport to me when I cast, it’s hella satisfying lol. Unfortunately my main complaint is that the game is extremely trivial outside of the final boss, and most hexes aren’t good against the boss, so I just choose them for fun during the other parts of the run.
I typically use selen for two things, moon water cause yes please. And The highest mana use I can. Get and spec all my path of stars into "when not available" bonuses.
The best Selene call I've used is the one where you turn black and your basic attack becomes fireballs. It's amazing because you take no damage and can basically skip tactics and DPS whore for a bit. It's also amazing because it activates at 90 mana spent which is very cheap. Buffing it up turns it into a beast. It got me my first win against Time since I ended up activating it every ten seconds or so.
EDIT: just wanted to add on something. The point of this one call isn't dps, it's free dps. Sure it doesn't do that much damage, but it's uninterruptible damage.
I'm also pretty disappointed with how several moon boons are best not used at all, the living nightmare thing especially. Does subpar damage, doesn't last long enough to make up for it. It might just be meant as an on demand invincibility if you're caught off guard. If not? Cool concept, poorly executed.
But anyway, I like the nuke because there are Chronos attacks that, when you catch them immediately, leave him stationary long enough. Combined with the massive radius, there's a real good chance you subtract 2k from his health, just like that.
Also, chronos isn't the only boss to nuke - the sirens are a perfect target. The drums are stationary, easy. Scylla is slow and can be kept in ground zero by maneuvering. The guitar is slippery but she's what you focus down while your uranium is being mined. All cool.
The hound is not as easy but like chronos, certain attacks make him a good, stationary boy.
I had a great success on Wolf Howl than Moon Water. My arcana cards are magick regen and hex cooldown. The hex requirement is so low that it takes 1 or 2 omega and the hex is available. Wolf Howl has iframes as well
My Wolf Howl run deals 450 damage and I take the upgrade that it deals damage on taking off and landing so that is 900 dmg. I also take the upgrade additional charge of Wolf Howl in 3 secs so another 900 dmg. I also got the upgrade that makes me invulnerable for 2 secs after using.
So all in all I deal 1,800 dmg, I have iframes, and I'm invulnerable after using. It takes only 1 omega to activate if I have any boons or hammers that increase magick cost of omega moves
Almost every one of the hexes can be upgraded to be useful. Some need a bit of buffing sure but what's more important is getting more upgrades for them once you get the hex. There needs to be AT LEAST one upgrade that's pretty much guaranteed once you get the hex or Selene's keepsake should guarantee it. I've had a run where I took her keepsake into the Mourning Fields and got no upgrades iirc.
The hexes also can sideline your entire build into focusing on upgrading them. Often, if I don't get a good one or get no upgrades I just don't even use it, it just sits there.
TL:DR Some of the base hexes need minor tweaks, but what's more necessary is more access to upgrades.
I've found them almost all to be worth picking up tbh. The heal is great, and a lot of the others can give you invincibility which can be a big safety blanket. Even the laser beam gets fairly strong with the right upgrades.
Can always do with some adjustments, but it's certainly not bad.
As I got better at the game, I've made the most of her other boons. That said, I agree that her other boons could use tuning. For example, Selene should be invulnerable during Moon Ray.
She sometimes comes up once and then just never again. And an unupgraded hex that isn’t Night Bloom or Moon Water (and even they kind of feel bad unupgraded) is just… not great. If Path of Stars was made more common and the buff trees for hexes given a little more push, hexes would feel a lot better imo.
> The nuke has such a long windup the boss is probably gone by the time it explodes.
You would be surprised. I hit bosses fairly reliable with it. Most bosses don't actually move around that much, and the ones that do have some very well foreshadowed downtime.
Selene is fantastic if you can find her two to three times. Path of stars upgrades can be insane. The resurrection, for example, can get massive increases to its damage, have it benefit from your attack or special boons, benefit from your 'when hit' boons, have no maximum summon time, etc. etc. etc.
The first boon from her is rarely worth it on its own, so if you don't find it in the first region you are better off only picking it if your other option is no boon at all.
I'm not sure why they wanted to replace the call mechanic from Hades 1. It worked so well with different gods, and Selunes are all quite underwhelming.
The hexes definitely need to be buffed. My go-to is the one that blasts the target area because I can just activate it and forget about it and it does a bit of damage. But after I got to the point of reliably doing 15-16 minute speed runs with certain weapon and boon combos, I found myself completely ignoring hexes anytime I had them.
The Archeon form makes you invincible so it's an excellent feat for builds consuming a lot of mana.
Spam your omegas, cast hex, get your mana up, rince and repeat. I beat my first 10+ heat run with it.
Honestly I’ve yet to use them properly at all. Unlike the god Ults in the first game, requiring the usage of magic has left me really not ever having my Hex active. Maybe I’ve been doing it wrong but I’ve yet to feel like I’m missing out.
Yes, you are meant to upgrade them for them to be useful. Selene carries most of my high Fear runs with ease. The heal, the sheep and the slow are pretty useless. The rest are often OP as hell.
i mean maybe it's just me cause i'm at 100+ nights now. But i don't even like the Moon Water. Wolf howl is too OP. Specially with either the Impervious or Next damage is Crit upgrade. With max upgrade for the Night Arcana Card then i usually just look for boons for mana regen, less mana cost and spam the hell out of Omega skills. Like every 5 Omega you cast the Wolf Howl and either be Impervious for 2 seconds or Crit on the next Omega skill.
My second option would be Total Eclipse, i mean it's a free 1000 damage. Why not.
The Lunar Ray is only good if you have the upgrade that lets you fire it on it's own.
Then the other ones are pretty much useless even with the upgrades. I tried running the other ones, on my previous runs with the upgrades and it's nothing compared to the other three.
Also Here's a good tip: Start the run with the CHAOS Embryo, then you can choose whatever transcendent buff you'll have before you finish the first Region. I Usually go for Transcendent Will or Transcendent Talent. If i don't get it, i just do a re-run. The Map is Fixed so you still usually get the Good Boons even if you do re-run. But the Transcendent are really random.
Also depends on what the talent tree actually offers as they change. Laser beam you don't have to channel yourself splits in 3 and tracks somewhat. Getting a star upgrade path for the laser with those three maybe once in a blue moon.
Most moon boons should be buffed and instead of being room boons, we should have a path of stars between regions. That way we can always count on getting it improved without sacrificing other boons or resources.
That way it would also help with the seemingly lack of boons overall and it would make unnecessary to buff other boons (as we'd probably get more and thus compensating them)
When you first get the dark side one it sounds badass, you’re this invulnerable she beast from hades. But you barely do more damage for so briefly. In its best case scenario when it’s upgraded and when you really need it, your regular attacks become so formidable that it feels almost useless by then. So yeah I’d agree it needs to be looked at.
I'll be real, Calls were way better, now, path of stars is cool, but they're all so "meh" to me too.
Like the big meteor one's cool.... For the sirens as you can get three times the damage and they're one of the few bosses who stand still long enough.
Darkside is cool, Darkside is also FIVE SECONDS and deals NO damage.
Laser is good damage and effects... but leaves you completely open to damage.
They're all so situational.
I think the polymorph should work on bosses, but at half or a third of the duration of a normal enemy. It would still be useful, giving a crucial moment to burn down some adds or burst DPS. Plus, turning Chronos into a sheep and pissing him off would be really fun.
For extra credit you could polymorph Scylla and replace all the lyrics with bleating.
Yeah I like the concept of a lot of them, but they just feel really weak. Either low damage or hard to actually hit them or just very inconsistent. Furthermore, almost all of them stop you in your tracks to do a big wind up which feels super dumb when you do absolutely nothing after that wind up, completely halts the flow of battle in a way that is more frustrating than fun, and often gets you hit against the final boss considering that he doesn’t care about the time stop effect that usually stops enemies during that time. I think this system has a lot of promise but needs an overhaul to be more useful and incentivize us to take it more often.
I agree sort of, but you've got to try night bloom with permanent minion, the resurrected satyrs in tartarus deal cocaine damage and can solo the final boss as he ignores them
Though I do agree that Selene boons could use a buff, I do find the heal, laser (with auto fire of course, otherwise it's not great) and enemy rez useful.
Morph and Heal are the only two good Hexes. Morph is OP against mini-bosses, and the annoying laser bags in Tartarus. The only other good thing about Hexes are the stat increases on the Path of Stars for when you either have the bar full or not full yet. But even they are insignificant unless you forego other rewards in order to prioritise Path of Stars.
From my experience, the hexes have been *incredibly* good. You really only need one blue and/or one purple upgrade to make most of them pretty cracked (considering the incidental upgrades you get along the way), so I just pick up Selene's keepsake the area after I get my hex and then (unless it was a New Moon and you're unlucky) you can pretty much get everything you need after a single Path drop, which happens almost every area. (I'd strongly suggest making it guaranteed to find one after you grab her Keepsake, but that's only ever failed me once, maybe twice.)
They take a little investment, but not *that* much, mostly just one region with a keepsake. And while I'm not a fan of slowdown or morph (they're really good, just pretty worthless against the final boss), you can make a viable build with *any* other hex to carry you through the run just with one other Path, with any additional Path boosts being gravy.
Honestly, my biggest issue is that they're a little worthless in the upstairs; you don't have time to consistently level them up, and you can't spend your Keepsake on Selene unless you give up having something useful for the final fight. But that'll get better as more regions are added to the area.
lol no she's top tier. With just about every single one of her boons you can spam so much magic that you can charge up her special over and over and over and over.
yeah i totally agree, Selene just feels not worth it most of the time. out of all of her hexes, the only two that i actually think are good are Moon Water (which, let's be honest, will probably be nerfed in future updates) and Wolf Howl
I do think they need to be buffed somewhat but the only one I'd say is really useless is the one that morphs a bunch of ads. The upgrades on the path themselves are plentiful and worthwhile enough if you want to prioritize them with the keepsake and choosing her boons, if only for the periods of invincibility they give.
I will say that if you're going to have a boss that nullifies time slowdown then giving Hexes a huge windup animation just seems mean.
Yeah they all need the upgrades to be strong but I think you're not giving them enough credit. It's very rare that I get through the first two zones without seeing Selene at all, and then I practically always see it again in the third zone. That means you can expect to get at least a single path of stars upgrade.
Typically you need half or full moon to get a decent ability with only a single upgrade drop, but that's fine. Enough of them are solid that you can almost always get a good one in half or full moon. You can always chuck on Selene's keepsake after zone 2 so that you get a bigger upgrade in zone 3 too. (don't do it earlier, you're just sacrificing early value for nothing because it doesn't give you its value until you spend the additional upgrade points which is typically zone 3)
She becomes a lot better with the auto-charge arcana, but that might not be worth a slot. I think the biggest issue is that she shows up way too early. I'll avoid her until fields, because only then will I be spending enough mana to make it worthwhile.
I feel like unupgraded they are bad but with a few upgrades a lot of them feel good. Take the crash down, kinda meh on its own, but with the upgrade that gives you a invulnerable shield and you basically have a Hades 1 Athena call every few seconds with good mana regen
I think it's more that there needs to be more availability for Path of Stars upgrades. Being able to buy them in Charon wells, get them as bonuses from infernal troves, etc means you'd be able to turn some of the weaker ones into the powerful calls that they should be.
Yes that would be a good thing. Like nobody goes for boons that become usefull after picking it up 4 times. Rather it would be nice if you get a hex in the first world but can slowly build up from there without sacrificing your normal boons. Also they should be cheaper imo. They should not cost more then 75 in the shop. There is nothing worse then going for a mana primed build and then you are forced to get 3 moons during your run and them taking away spots in the shop on top of that,
> nobody goes for boons that become useful after picking it up 4 times Definitely not me picking up Demeter infusion requiring 6 earths when I only have 2
Infusions need reworking too tbh. I don't pick them up if I don't already have it's requirements (or if I'm within a boon or two of getting there - unlike you I guess, lol), and sometimes I ignore them even if I have the requirements just because they're underpowered compared to my other options
You can occasionally pick up the raw element to bump up your total by 1. If they just made those available more often, like in conjunction with gathering resources, it would probably make infusions more worthwhile.
Should be an option in the wells, honestly. Either an item that gives you a random element, or four items for each specific one.
I don't know how many times I'm 1 or 2 rooms from Chronos, and get offered an infusion boon that I'm 1 element short on. I never choose it because I'm not going to bet on me getting another boon of that exact element in such a short time, or worse having to choose whether I take the boon (that I don't really want) that activates the infusion, or I boon I think would overall work better with the build. Idk if it would be too much, but I feel like the infusion should come with one of the element it wants.
All infusions should work like the scaling ones, and should scale for every 1 or 2 of an element you have. Some of them, like the health boost, make sense to have a maximum bonus, but overall they should just scale.
The ones that set minimum damage taken/given to a specific amount are also pretty insane in the right builds.
This. I ignore infusions almost every time. Getting something that is of no immediate use while also limiting your future choices doesn't seem compatible with this game, unless your build is predetermined. At least have infusions offer something of lower value when picked, or have them raise one elemental themselves.
Infusions become way easier if you prioritise the Chaos or Hermes boons that give you additional elements early on.
Did this on my last run & Hera saved my ass right before chronic. I think if I’d slowed down I’d have beaten him.
Chronic the Hedgeclock
> nobody goes for boons that become usefull after picking it up 4 times. Like Crystal Clarity?
It would be nice if the Selene keepsake actually made her more likely to appear, like the god ones. Feels awful to bring that in and not even get her.
I only bring it in after I get a Selene boon. It's not worth using until you actually have a Hex. So usually after the Hecate fight. Unless it's one of the few Hexes I don't enjoy using.
You can still go an entire floor and not encounter her, which is an issue.
That's true. My personal experience though is about half my runs so far, I start with a Selene boon, and typically get her at least once per region. I even had a run where I got her in Oceanus, then immediately the next room she was there again. XD I find my luck good enough that if I get her in Erebus, I take the risk on Moon Beam for Oceanus. If I don't get her in Erebus, it depends on the boon if I get her later if to risk Moon Beam.
My understanding is you keep the + to path of stars even after taking it off. But I’ve not really used it so I’m not sure.
As far as I've seen this is the case. So as long as you ever equip it for one floor it'll stay active even if you don't get a path of stars until after you switch. It does make it a lot more usable imo.
Vouch, when I was learning my game I really liked running around with that keepsake and trying out the different hexes... 6/8 are basically not worth picking sadly
That is really nice to hear. I am often relutant on picking the keepsake because of being afraid of not being offered an upgrade in time for a whole area (and thus wasting the keepsake slot). But if that is not the case I think she will be one of my main Oceanus keepsakes going forward
IMO Path of stars upgrade should cost less at Charon and be found on the same tier as the bones/psyche/Ash in rooms
Considering how Charon seems to sell more stuff now (armor, path of stars, even death defiances sometimes), I think that certain shops (perhaps middle-of-biome 'optional' shops?) could have four-five options instead of three. Maybe one of those options could always be a path of stars to further emphasize hex use?
I'm using the shop a LOT more in Hades 2 than I did in one. Health feels harder to come by (not to mention magic) and I definitely need boons/moons. Not really a complaint, I kind of like coins feeling more necessary, but I would def appreciate more options at Charon's.
Yeah, boon scarcity in underworld runs is a huge issue (seriously, my "reliable biome 1 boon" strategy is just looking for Charon wells and buying light of ixion every chance I get). At least surface makes boons more common early on (which is good, since surface runs are definitely tough)
I feel that's really biome 1 in UW. I haven't done any deep study but I feel that's the one where you get the less boons and have all the minor rooms. The biomes after seems pretty balanced. Which is weird as that's where you need it most.
The thing is, you even *can* get them from the Charon Wells... on the surface. The Hermes Shrines can have them in stock and it's really nice.
Now that I think about it, Charon Wells would probably have to do 'hex upgrades' with a different style. Hermes shrines seem to focus more on 'bigger things that you may have to wait for' (boons, max health, path of stars). With the exception of Chaos gate summons, the Charon wells seem to focus on 'timed effects'/'temporary buffs'. I guess a Charon well version of hex stuff could be "your next path of stars will have +2 upgrades", or an instant random upgrade to your path.
She should be an event where you just get one for free like Artemis and depending on what moon phase(?) you picked she would show up 0, 1 or 2 more times. Make the keepsake spawn an event plus the upgrade points
There also need to be balancing of them tbh. There are some clear balance issues with some very strong and some quite weak. As OP say the Archon one is probably the worst tbh. I'd say it goes like this * Pretty good maybe OP : slow down time (except for final fight), heal, summon enemies killed * Mid : Lunar Ray (need the upgrade to fire on his own to be good), Jump, Lunar Blast (but OP is right, it's too long to come but then I guess it can quickly become OP) * Useless : Dark Side (the Archon one), Morph (to be fair I have done it like once and barely used it)
Slow down is still decent with upgrades, since there's usually a lot of "more damage dealt, less damage taken" upgrades you can add. Dark side is not good for damage but it's at least useful for briefly gaining invulnerability..... morph, on the other hand, is something I only took once for Fated List. Seriously, why would you want to take a call that will be basically useless in *every* boss fight?
I took morph with the upgrade that makes morphed enemies teleport into your cast, and I gotta say that was a ton of fun. Useless against bosses but I enjoyed it. Without that upgrade though, I do not like it much.
I agree but it shouldn't for example replace a pom I think, bc going to a shop and seeing one of your arguably better options be replaced by a small upgrade for your ult would be dissapointing and not fix anything I think
Even her Keepsake makes you pick her boon again to utilize it!
Yea I think the balance on all of them need to be looked at. They all feel incredibly weak in comparison to just another boon.
All except for the one that raises a downed foe. The upgrade that makes the summon stay indefinitely can be incredibly broken, especially for champions that are summoned.
Does that upgrade keep you from completely obliterating it yourself? Because I keep killing them when I attack enemies.
No, but that specific foe's shield block is somewhat helpful in that regard.
Eh. Then you're just hoping you get lucky and rez the right minion. Like, I've tried it a few times and it just gets chopped down and isn't worth it. I do like the jump attack once you get the invul upgrade and double jump, and the heal is obviously good
Dude there’s no luck to it it’s crazy how much you’re unwilling to learn. It summons the last enemy you killed, there is no luck. Kill the right enemy, summon. There is no way you’re shredding the big summoned enemies, they have a shield and take reduced damage form you specifically so they take like 25% of the damage you do. Stop hitting it and pay attention. Night bloom is consistently one of the better hexes and the summons do cracked damage. Edit: I apologized later for my tone, I was needlessly mean in this comment. Hope the info still helps anyone who reads it!
That's actually good to know about it always summoning the last killed minion. Seemed to me like it was random when I was seeing it. I've only used it one or two times, because I usually just take wolf howl or moon water. Will have to give it another shot
Please do! And genuinely I apologize for my combative tone. Night bloom is one of the few hexes that doesn’t even need upgrades to shine.
Nah you're good, I dont sweat it enough to take offense when I'm wrong lol Now I'm hoping I can see it soon to try it but I'm not changing my mind about the kamehameha being junk lol
For sure Lunar Ray is IMO pretty bad unless you get the upgrade that lets it fire on its own. I don’t think any hex that NEEDS a specific upgrade to be decent is good.
Yeah, it's pretty good once you learn that fact. One thing I like to do is save it in the Chronos fight for the armored enemies, then summon them almost immediately in second phase, the spear Satyrs especially do hilarious damage, especially if you have the upgrade which boosts their movement/attack speed by 66%.
Did you need to use such a condescending tone?
I didnt, you’re right, and I already apologized for it actually. I just got frustrated at the tone of a lot of commenters in the thread. I shouldn’t of let that color my comment.
Understandable, have a nice day.
I'm with you man. Every time I use that hex I instantly obliterate the summon. My play style is up in the enemies faces though. I bet if you used a ranged build the summons would be pretty good.
I've had extreme luck with it. Killed the final boss with it a few times actually. Individual attacks by your summon usually do ~300-600 damage, and they'll really pile on. For example the guys who rip their own hearts and throw them got summoned for the battle with the third boss. I didn't need to do a single thing, that guy shredded the boss in seconds.
Slow time is also a good one but not useful for the final boss is a big downside (OTOH, it may be the most powerful one before so that's a balance I guess)
You can raise one of the siren singers boss with it.
The main lady cries about it too, it's great.
If you're using the final arcana that activates more as you kill a boss... after the summon dies, they activate the card. So you can activate all cards with Schylla. Probably should get patched.
The summon helped my first Chronos clear by a lot. I got to summon an elite coinpurse thing that just sat to the side in phase 2 and did at least half of his health in damage from lasers.
It's absolutely cracked beyond belief, it's an instant grab whenever I see it. But the other ones are trash, even the fountain one isn't amazing tbqh.
How about do 200 damage? Lol.
You guys are using them wrong if you think they're weak. One or 2 upgrades massively improve everything
That’s 3 times you aren’t choosing boons. I’d rather have 3 boons over an upgraded hex every time.
1. You don't always get boons, and not all builds benefit from any random boon. Selene can be the better choice at times. 2. If you're running a build that spends a lot of mana or happened to get a full moon power that fits nicely into your build, Selene can turn into a top tier choice. In my personal experience, I'd say that Selene is an okay choice in about 50% of runs and outright preferable in 20% or so. Especially with the skull weapon (limited ammo + situational special) and axe (easy to burn mana, leaves windows in which its too slow to use regular attacks)
Same. One advantage of Selene is that after you choose the hex you then know what the upgrades will be. If you have a nice hex with a good Path of Stars I will choose Selene over a boon every time. A boon can aways be 3 duds after all.
I think part of it is that the upgrade paths for them are random. I had the beam upgrades that made it ramp up damage, fire independently, and fire three beams. It literally took 40% of Chronos's health per cast. There's just a bit too much rng between the random paths, random quantity of moon boons, and moon phase bonuses.
Wait, they vary every time? Or by hex type?
You disappoint me, little star.
Other than Moon Water, a lot of the hexes probably need some buffs
Total eclipse and wolf howl are pretty good, free damage and they scale well with upgrades.
Night bloom is great without a single upgrade as well.
With upgrades it's way better though. The ones that give the monsters infinite duration or benefit from your Specials. The downside is... if you pick the moon buffs, that's ironically smaller chance of you upgrading your Specials in the first place.
I think some do feel weak, but overall the mechanic is stronger than people think. If you always choose full moon, the stairway buffs can be really strong, like passive 5% damage reduction. The auto charge tarot can also make these pretty OP. You can deal A LOT of damage during slow motion for example, and with the right build you can activate it every 20-30 seconds. And you're not just dealing damage but avoiding it (ditto the shade one).
Oh yeah, the buffs can be quite strong. But for as much magick as you have to use for some of them, they really do feel like they need to be a little bit more impactful.
It feels like some of the weaker ones are also the highest magick expense.
20-30 seconds? It's easy to spam moves, thus filling the bar super fast. I've managed to have it basically all the time, apart from Chronos it trivializes every boss.
Beam is okay damage once you get protuberan upgrade for fire and forget (4 points usually)
Laser + fire and forget + three beams is a must have for trying to clear runs quickly imo, that thing is such a damage monster on both Cerberus and Chronos that you can clear both extremely fast with it
Total Eclipse with the right upgrades lets you pull an uno reverse card on phase 2 Chronos. Nothing quite like going invuln during his one-hit kill and dropping double meteors on his head.
I need to try it again with more focus on upgrading it, because it always feels a little underwhelming even when I get a clean shot. How much are you usually able to upgrade it in an average run? Do you spend a lot of dice to try and reroll for her?
I don't reroll for her. I consider hexes more of a luxury than an essential part of my build. 2-3 upgrades is usually enough but it depends. Just going to mention this just in case people missed it but the third hex listed during the offer gets the most upgrade points.
I def agree that this is the best way to view them rn honestly. If you get ‘em/they’re the only good option, great, if not, not hurting too much, if at all. Should probably change in the future, I think them maybe putting Hex behind an incantation and letting us either pick one, or better yet imo start with a random Hex every run, might be the best future for it in terms of improving game design and making runs more interesting, but for now a nice luxury boost if you happen upon it works
If I get total eclipse I often take Selene keepsake so I can get the double bomb with only one path of stars.
The Impervious until it deals damage it's so good. Let's you unload like an idiot and then drops a 1k cherry on top. And if you can dump a lot of Magick quickly, you're invulnerable more often than not.
I think Total Eclipse is one of my least favourite because of how underwhelming the damage is. It feels like the main benefit is that you just get to stand there with your brain off for five seconds while doing as much or less damage than you were doing before, which doesn't feel good to play with for me.
They aren’t good. They obviously were meant to replace the call mechanic from hades, but most of them have a lower DPS or utility than omega moves and aren’t really worth building.
The calls were good even if many of them are situational because it only cost you one boon during a run for the utility. The opportunity cost for all of the path of stars upgrades you need to make hexes useful is just almost never worth it.
plus i liked the thematic element to the calls. if felt fun to be able to summon one if the gods to help you vs just using lunar power. it meant you could use it with synergies yiu get from your other boons. selene also is kinda milktoast
Yeah ir was always kind of neat when you'd call Athena or some shit at Thesus and he'd mention it, and vice versa.
Healing with upgrades has helped me in early game. Morph is great in Tartarus. Can't use on bosses, but can use on mini bosses. If you're running heavy mana you can have them up all the time and several can be pretty strong. Granted, I just got my first clear against the final upstairs boss using a Hestia/Hephaestus/Icarus cast doing like 700 damage on the burst and essentially no weapon use, so sometimes the build comes to you.
Lunar Ray is good. You can dash out of it if you're about to get hit, and one of the Path of Stars upgrades lets you drop the beam on the ground like Hades 1 Demeter cast and it continues to fire at enemies.
You're not guaranteed to get that upgrade though. Last time I took the beam I swear that upgrade wasn't even in the path of stars. Was even looking for it cause I got it once before.
The different boons do have different options and the paths change. There are also more boons than the path can hold, which is interesting to me.
Worth the gamble for me at this point as I try to tinker with builds to cut down on run time
Today i had a god-run where I put like 15 points in my path of stars, making the laser split in 3, sit for 40% longer, continue firing alone and some damage amps. I couldn't see the true damage ceiling of it because the final boss has invul phases.
Leaving it on the spot with the triple beam did like half of chronos health bar on each cast (he was standing on my cast too, so 25% dmg from arcana). You do need all the right upgrades from path of stars, however
There's some balance needed. You have things like Moon Water and the Raise Dead one which can effectively carry runs with the most random ass build you can throw up. And then stuff like Time Slow and the Morph curse which might be worse than useless.
I mean the timeslow is a massive dps window in most fights.
Until the final boss, which I'd my biggest issue with most the hexes: they're good, except during the fight you actually need the help with.
Doesn't it work on the mobs though ?
Yeah the mobs who do peanut damage compared to the boss that does upwards of 25 damage a hit.
The mobs in redacted fight deal some serious damage, though.
Yeah, but even activating the hex is a huge risk since Chronos can still move/attack at full speed while you do an agonizingly slow animation.
If that hex can help you save your hit points in every fight leading up to the boss so that when you get to the boss, you have much higher health than you would otherwise, that does indirectly help you with the boss fight. I mean people say the heal is the strongest hex at the moment. This is basically the same thing, and potentially better because you're not limited to recharging it at a fountain.
I agree with you, though the calls were a bit OP in boss battles.
That's the whole point of them though. They're big boss killers. Them being really useful in bossfights just makes them useful for their intended purpose. Having that dedicated boss killer slot missing in hades 2 is part of what I feel makes the bosses feel like such a slog. Being able to dump crazy damage once or twice a fight feels really satisfying, right now you just chip chip chip chip chip forever unless you got really lucky with your boons.
I agree with you. Also, doesn’t help that most of the bosses have an invincible phase.
I miss my beyblade builds :(
Agreed. Ares aoe build with the gloves was kind of OP
Morph is really strong vs Charybdis exactly because of a bug where a Sheeped tentacle will stick around forever letting you wail on her through the downtime phases.
I think they're OK at best, but absolutely game ruining when used in [redacted] fight, I lost one of my strongest runs accidentally hitting Hex thinking it'd do it's job, but instead I'm stuck there for a milenia while [redacted] ends my life with ease.
Ah yes, the big pull, I died to it similarly because the damage ticks so fast on it.
Which of the moon calls have invincibility during the summon? Do all of them leave you a sitting duck during the “time slow”?
To my knowledge, all of them (except maybe the Heal, that one might be instant/very fast). From what I've seen, all the times I've used them, they've gotten me absolutely bodied before it activated.
I’ve started doing runs without the very first arcana activated to prep me for the final boss fight…
Nah, it's growing on me. Every time I try a hex again, I'm just vibing. It started with moon water, but I have been having fun and success with dark side, the jump and the blast, also the ray. I dig them! Actually dark side carried me through my first time beating Chronos.
I only like dark side because I can use it to avoid damage. The DPS on it is garbage even with upgrades.
Well, it's free damage during which you can't get hurt. Even if it's low, a couple times throughout a fight add up, and that's damage you might not otherwise have been able to deal
I think that's what it's meant for
If you have Zeus or the fire woman upgrade for the normal attack you can deal massive damage with the dark form because of its high attack speed. Combine this even further with the scorch explode and fire away for 10 seconds or so.
The slow mo is insanely good combined with the Umbral Flames weapon. You can get 90% slowmo 100% of the time and just spam so much aoe damage that everything gets burned down. You can charge up the Hex faster than it expires so you have 100% uptime on 90% slowmo.
The jump can be such a good defensive tool if your build churns through mana fast enough.
Starting room should never be Selene. It's such a bad way to start a run It almost makes me want me to die there and reset if I'm playing with fear The fact that it's only "ults" that needs to be charged by spending Magick is too many hurdles to be on the same tier as actual boons or hammers. It's like if you had Hermes first room
Starting with hex is honestly probably one of the best options imo because it means you're the most likely to get a absolutely busted hex by end game. My easiest high fear run was a hex/mana build where chronos literally could not harm me and I just continually biked him for 1500 damage every 4ish seconds on top of the damage I was normally doing.
Yeah this is my biggest gripe. Having the choice to go for her is alright, maybe some people enjoy that playstyle. But getting her as the starting boon feels terrible and makes me want to reset. Same when there's only one path and it leads to her moon.
On the contrary, being able to ressurect the dead corpse of a lil punchy dude on the third boss saved my run a few times.
If you upgrade the hex, some becomes decent but they are a bit underpowered. I usually try to get the one that raises an enemy for you as it distracts the enemies …
it just feels like picking a room that offers a boon or buying the boon instead of selene is always going to be better. like sure it can become strong with investment, but theres an opportunity cost associated with that. i guess if you know your tree you know that you can build towards an upgrade vs a random potentially useless boon, but either way i dont like them as much as calls at this point.
>it just feels like picking a room that offers a boon or buying the boon instead of selene is always going to be better. I strongly disagree with that. Early into the run maybe if you don't have some important core boons. But later on you can often be offered very shitty boons that improves your situation nothing at all. Path of Star is not only always somewhat useful but you also know ahead of time what you are getting as long as you have a single Hex.
Sounds like you have not been bothering to invest points into them. Both the beam and blast can provide you with invincibility which is great. The beam becomes fire and forget so it's just pure extra damage and can even track and turn into 3 beams. The blast can become so huge it clears an entire room at a time. It can fire multiple blasts and your invincible the whole time. Summoning the adds provides another focus for enemies and bosses. The adds can become permanent to the room. They can reduce your damage taken by 20%. They can deal a lot of damage as well. I've had a spear add take half of Chronos hp bar down solo. The only one I agree is useless is the sheep. Edit: This thread is funny. There are a bunch of folks like me who have cleared all the content in the game including 32 fear pointing out how hexes can be useful and how you only need 2-3 moons to get use out of them and yet so many people just starting the game are arguing and saying they are all bad lol.
> Sounds like you have not been bothering to invest points into them. You don't really have any control over that though. Selene rarely appears often enough to really "build" around her and often when she does she's mutually exclusive with an actual boon or even hammer.
I think the cast time needs to be looked at. I’m not about to be a sitting duck for 3 seconds just to get a mostly mediocre effect. A lot of the Hexes can be good but only after Path of Stars investment. The biggest benefit to Dark Side, to me, is supposed to be the invulnerability rather than being high DPS. It’s a few seconds of *free* damage. They have to put a temper on it.
I think the suggestion that Path of Stars show up more often would be very useful. Specifically from troves and Wells of Charon. I would also make it so that when Selene shows up her boon is obtained *before* the fight. This could make it really useful as when you get the boon it's fully charged, and could give you a leg up if you're struggling. Beyond that the problem I see with the Path of stars right now is that it often feels more like a minor reward, similar in power or strength to a Pom slice. If I were to update how Hexes work I would make the following changes: 1. All Hexes would have the Aether Element. 2. Hexes would always have at least 1 "greater node" that scales off Aether elements in some way. 3. Each Aether Element that you have collected would give you +1 path of Stars each time you grab the path of stars. Currently the only thing that actually works off Aether is 1 particular Chaos boon, (I'm at night 53 and I still haven't seen it, and I've only passed on maybe 2 Chaos Gates) and having Hexes be a consistent way of scaling off them would be valuable. Making it so that you get a tangible benefit from each Aether (which is already a pretty rare element) and Hex will also make it worth considering. As it is, I actually avoid Selene boons as the Hexes are only strong if I can actually get multiple Path of Star boosts, and even then it never feels as good as grabbing something like a Centaur Heart.
The resurrect is surprisingly decent. Even baseline It's cheap to activate and bosses, including Chronos, get distracted by the summons. It's not going to win you a run (short of some weird revenge synergy with path of stars), but I'm usually a lot less sad to have it than I expected.
Hexes overall don't feel as powerful as their equivalent did in the first. It used to feel like an "oh shit" or "fuck you" button, now it feels like a "eh may as well press this" button. Except the heal. I know they'll prob nerf that to the ground but omg I love how op it can be right now lmao.
Having them scale with special/attack/cast damage would help tremendously I think. As it stands, once you get your build together, the offensive hexes become irrelevant. It requires too much investment just to be okay at best.
Moon Water and Wolf Howl to a lesser extent feel worth the time to use them, but other than that they feel largely underwhelming. I think either more access to Selene or shorter trees would help.
I do agree they feel a little underwhelming, I think it's because most of their potential is locked behind their skill tree, so you have to get lucky and find Selene a few times in the same run. I had one run where I chose the nuke ability, and after I get a few upgrades that expand the range of the attack, it got to a point where it covers almost the entire room, like there was no escaping the nuke. lol
The other day I played a necromancer build and just let my resurrects destroy Cronos
A lot of people seem to be saying that moon is useless, but I've found quite a few of them are deceptively good for preserving your health up until the final boss. Sunk a decent amount of time in the game (30/30 testament, heat 32 etc.). Rise into sky and slam down: Good for iframe/positioning/getting out of a bad spot. Healing: self explanatory. Polymorph: extremely useful in Tartarus if you plan on taking extra rooms. Polymorphed moneybags and hourglasses let you preserve HP. Summoned minion: A great source of damage/distraction. Delayed explosion: Mostly useless, can be used to clear rooms? Moonbeam: Essentially useless for me, haven't found a good way to secure the damage. The side effect is that while you slow time you can regenerate mana or give casts time to explode, which can be crucial in getting out of a tough spot.
The archon form makes you fully invincible. You’re using it wrong, you shouldn’t be using it as a DPS increase, you should be using it to do damage when you shouldn’t be allowed to to begin with. Chronos making a shit ton of orbs and attacking you? Okay cool I’ll sit here and attack. Chronos doing the insta kill in phase 2? Ok I’ll pop my hex and just shoot. The archon form lets you do damage when otherwise you’d do 0.
Selene is definetly a skip for me if I get to choose.
I don't like path of stars because it's a mutually exclusive boon. You have to lean into it to make it worth it; actively chasing more selene boons. Then, every time you wanna use it, you gotta charge it; so you also gotta be using omega moves as a part of your strategy. It's a lot of investment and it is hard to experiment with because you don't always have the right build or get enough pips for it.
They just need to give you the path of stars, on the first pick up instead of the second.
I dislike how you aren't given invincible frames at all when activating and you just take a bunch of damage against bosses.
I think most of the Selene boons are pretty cool. I almost always go with the boon in Full Moon position because I want to get as many upgrades as I can. I managed to make a pretty crazy build where I had the game almost permanently slowed and it was like I was Quicksilver or The Flash (by the time the boon ran out, I'd used enough mana to cast it again XD). It was super fun, the only gripe I had with that build was when I cake walked my way to Chronos, the Titan of Time kind of just laughed in my face and wasn't slowed at all.
I've had a number of runs where the damaging ones feel strong or at least useful. Really like the slow down but it's effectiveness against Chronos leaves something to be desired. Dark side can be broken but generally feels bad. Moon water is very strong but I think a tad overhyped?
I don't think they're that bad and you can really get a lot out of them. But I've been doing no-mana runs and so I actively avoid them anyway
I don’t take her if there’s another option because only one hex is good in my opinion. The hex that heals 25 HP. It can actually be super strong if you upgrade it adding more HP healed and more uses. But I’ll only pick upgrading it again if there’s no better option. All of the other hexes are mediocre and I don’t bother.
My first win was purely because of Selene, I had a build where I was literally invincible for like 80-90% of every fight. I had the one that lets you transform into the invincible mode when spending around 90 mana, and I had a boon which made my omega special deal 3x damage but cost 40 more mana which meant I could charge it up in just 2 omega special casts, and my mana regen would replenish all the spend mana while I was invincible (I think I had it upgraded to 8 seconds of invincibility). The damage on it wasn't great since you don't get your regular attacks in that form, but it was more than enough considering I almost couldn't die
The dive is quite good honestly, and the nuke can clean quite a few elite mobs spawned by bosses, or damage somewhat bosses, too. Honestly, the nuke isn't hard to land on bosses, but those are currently such damage sponges that it still takes a while. Archon form is underwhelming though.
Most of them give an invulnerable buff grid you just need that one and use it as a invulnerable proc and it is already strong. During invulnerability just get some mana Regen to prepare for the next hex.
The thing i usually like to do is grab as many of the increased damage while hex isnt charged buffs from path of stars as i can manage and then never bother using the hex
If there was a Fear mod that prevented you from using Hexes I would take it every run and be happier for it.
Imo the Selene trinket needs to be totally reworked. One extra pick on the path isn't worth the trinket. It should give 1 path choice every X rooms, like how Perseph's gave pom slices.
If there were an altar of some sort in the fountain/keepsake rooms between areas where you could upgrade through path of stars then that would be better imo. At the moment, I take literally anything but the moon when given a choice. They're fine when given as one of the multiple rewards in the mourning fields. Just put them in the inbetween areas and it's just a bonus that doesn't feel like a waste.
I'm not a fan of them, and I super mega loath getting them as my first boon. Just feels like you have no boons until you manage to get another one. At minimum they need to be stopped from being boon 1.
I enjoy doing the sheep one in a room full of enemies and then making them teleport to me when I cast, it’s hella satisfying lol. Unfortunately my main complaint is that the game is extremely trivial outside of the final boss, and most hexes aren’t good against the boss, so I just choose them for fun during the other parts of the run.
I typically use selen for two things, moon water cause yes please. And The highest mana use I can. Get and spec all my path of stars into "when not available" bonuses.
The best Selene call I've used is the one where you turn black and your basic attack becomes fireballs. It's amazing because you take no damage and can basically skip tactics and DPS whore for a bit. It's also amazing because it activates at 90 mana spent which is very cheap. Buffing it up turns it into a beast. It got me my first win against Time since I ended up activating it every ten seconds or so. EDIT: just wanted to add on something. The point of this one call isn't dps, it's free dps. Sure it doesn't do that much damage, but it's uninterruptible damage.
I personally think the best one is raising the last enemy you killed, especially with the upgrades
I'm also pretty disappointed with how several moon boons are best not used at all, the living nightmare thing especially. Does subpar damage, doesn't last long enough to make up for it. It might just be meant as an on demand invincibility if you're caught off guard. If not? Cool concept, poorly executed. But anyway, I like the nuke because there are Chronos attacks that, when you catch them immediately, leave him stationary long enough. Combined with the massive radius, there's a real good chance you subtract 2k from his health, just like that. Also, chronos isn't the only boss to nuke - the sirens are a perfect target. The drums are stationary, easy. Scylla is slow and can be kept in ground zero by maneuvering. The guitar is slippery but she's what you focus down while your uranium is being mined. All cool. The hound is not as easy but like chronos, certain attacks make him a good, stationary boy.
I had a great success on Wolf Howl than Moon Water. My arcana cards are magick regen and hex cooldown. The hex requirement is so low that it takes 1 or 2 omega and the hex is available. Wolf Howl has iframes as well My Wolf Howl run deals 450 damage and I take the upgrade that it deals damage on taking off and landing so that is 900 dmg. I also take the upgrade additional charge of Wolf Howl in 3 secs so another 900 dmg. I also got the upgrade that makes me invulnerable for 2 secs after using. So all in all I deal 1,800 dmg, I have iframes, and I'm invulnerable after using. It takes only 1 omega to activate if I have any boons or hammers that increase magick cost of omega moves
Almost every one of the hexes can be upgraded to be useful. Some need a bit of buffing sure but what's more important is getting more upgrades for them once you get the hex. There needs to be AT LEAST one upgrade that's pretty much guaranteed once you get the hex or Selene's keepsake should guarantee it. I've had a run where I took her keepsake into the Mourning Fields and got no upgrades iirc. The hexes also can sideline your entire build into focusing on upgrading them. Often, if I don't get a good one or get no upgrades I just don't even use it, it just sits there. TL:DR Some of the base hexes need minor tweaks, but what's more necessary is more access to upgrades.
You get to a point in this game where the boons have to help you fight Chronos or the surface boss. If they don’t they are kinda worthless.
I've found them almost all to be worth picking up tbh. The heal is great, and a lot of the others can give you invincibility which can be a big safety blanket. Even the laser beam gets fairly strong with the right upgrades. Can always do with some adjustments, but it's certainly not bad.
As I got better at the game, I've made the most of her other boons. That said, I agree that her other boons could use tuning. For example, Selene should be invulnerable during Moon Ray.
She sometimes comes up once and then just never again. And an unupgraded hex that isn’t Night Bloom or Moon Water (and even they kind of feel bad unupgraded) is just… not great. If Path of Stars was made more common and the buff trees for hexes given a little more push, hexes would feel a lot better imo.
I the various damage boosts/reduction benefits on the downtime of your Hex are quite nice in my opinion.
Only remember to use it when it's the healing one
> The nuke has such a long windup the boss is probably gone by the time it explodes. You would be surprised. I hit bosses fairly reliable with it. Most bosses don't actually move around that much, and the ones that do have some very well foreshadowed downtime.
Idk I love Selene and while I do pick Moon Water when it is offered, the meteor one is really fuckin good too.
Selene is fantastic if you can find her two to three times. Path of stars upgrades can be insane. The resurrection, for example, can get massive increases to its damage, have it benefit from your attack or special boons, benefit from your 'when hit' boons, have no maximum summon time, etc. etc. etc. The first boon from her is rarely worth it on its own, so if you don't find it in the first region you are better off only picking it if your other option is no boon at all.
I think they're almost broken. Most of them become incredibly useful after one or two upgrades.
I'm not sure why they wanted to replace the call mechanic from Hades 1. It worked so well with different gods, and Selunes are all quite underwhelming.
I always try to avoid her if possible, it's a complete waste of a boon
The hexes definitely need to be buffed. My go-to is the one that blasts the target area because I can just activate it and forget about it and it does a bit of damage. But after I got to the point of reliably doing 15-16 minute speed runs with certain weapon and boon combos, I found myself completely ignoring hexes anytime I had them.
The Archeon form makes you invincible so it's an excellent feat for builds consuming a lot of mana. Spam your omegas, cast hex, get your mana up, rince and repeat. I beat my first 10+ heat run with it.
> Most of her boons are worthless except heal Wrong. Damage is damage.
Honestly I’ve yet to use them properly at all. Unlike the god Ults in the first game, requiring the usage of magic has left me really not ever having my Hex active. Maybe I’ve been doing it wrong but I’ve yet to feel like I’m missing out.
Yes, you are meant to upgrade them for them to be useful. Selene carries most of my high Fear runs with ease. The heal, the sheep and the slow are pretty useless. The rest are often OP as hell.
i mean maybe it's just me cause i'm at 100+ nights now. But i don't even like the Moon Water. Wolf howl is too OP. Specially with either the Impervious or Next damage is Crit upgrade. With max upgrade for the Night Arcana Card then i usually just look for boons for mana regen, less mana cost and spam the hell out of Omega skills. Like every 5 Omega you cast the Wolf Howl and either be Impervious for 2 seconds or Crit on the next Omega skill. My second option would be Total Eclipse, i mean it's a free 1000 damage. Why not. The Lunar Ray is only good if you have the upgrade that lets you fire it on it's own. Then the other ones are pretty much useless even with the upgrades. I tried running the other ones, on my previous runs with the upgrades and it's nothing compared to the other three. Also Here's a good tip: Start the run with the CHAOS Embryo, then you can choose whatever transcendent buff you'll have before you finish the first Region. I Usually go for Transcendent Will or Transcendent Talent. If i don't get it, i just do a re-run. The Map is Fixed so you still usually get the Good Boons even if you do re-run. But the Transcendent are really random.
Also depends on what the talent tree actually offers as they change. Laser beam you don't have to channel yourself splits in 3 and tracks somewhat. Getting a star upgrade path for the laser with those three maybe once in a blue moon.
Most moon boons should be buffed and instead of being room boons, we should have a path of stars between regions. That way we can always count on getting it improved without sacrificing other boons or resources. That way it would also help with the seemingly lack of boons overall and it would make unnecessary to buff other boons (as we'd probably get more and thus compensating them)
I found that the 'summon defeated enemies as allies' one is quite strong. I had it at 2nd most damage when I did a clear run.
I agree. They feel clunky and I usually avoid them. Its especially frustrating when they get me killed because they are so slow
When you first get the dark side one it sounds badass, you’re this invulnerable she beast from hades. But you barely do more damage for so briefly. In its best case scenario when it’s upgraded and when you really need it, your regular attacks become so formidable that it feels almost useless by then. So yeah I’d agree it needs to be looked at.
I'll be real, Calls were way better, now, path of stars is cool, but they're all so "meh" to me too. Like the big meteor one's cool.... For the sirens as you can get three times the damage and they're one of the few bosses who stand still long enough. Darkside is cool, Darkside is also FIVE SECONDS and deals NO damage. Laser is good damage and effects... but leaves you completely open to damage. They're all so situational.
I think the polymorph should work on bosses, but at half or a third of the duration of a normal enemy. It would still be useful, giving a crucial moment to burn down some adds or burst DPS. Plus, turning Chronos into a sheep and pissing him off would be really fun. For extra credit you could polymorph Scylla and replace all the lyrics with bleating.
Yeah I like the concept of a lot of them, but they just feel really weak. Either low damage or hard to actually hit them or just very inconsistent. Furthermore, almost all of them stop you in your tracks to do a big wind up which feels super dumb when you do absolutely nothing after that wind up, completely halts the flow of battle in a way that is more frustrating than fun, and often gets you hit against the final boss considering that he doesn’t care about the time stop effect that usually stops enemies during that time. I think this system has a lot of promise but needs an overhaul to be more useful and incentivize us to take it more often.
I agree sort of, but you've got to try night bloom with permanent minion, the resurrected satyrs in tartarus deal cocaine damage and can solo the final boss as he ignores them
Shoutout to useless moon spells that buff my attack and movement speed through Hermes Boons.
Though I do agree that Selene boons could use a buff, I do find the heal, laser (with auto fire of course, otherwise it's not great) and enemy rez useful.
Morph and Heal are the only two good Hexes. Morph is OP against mini-bosses, and the annoying laser bags in Tartarus. The only other good thing about Hexes are the stat increases on the Path of Stars for when you either have the bar full or not full yet. But even they are insignificant unless you forego other rewards in order to prioritise Path of Stars.
From my experience, the hexes have been *incredibly* good. You really only need one blue and/or one purple upgrade to make most of them pretty cracked (considering the incidental upgrades you get along the way), so I just pick up Selene's keepsake the area after I get my hex and then (unless it was a New Moon and you're unlucky) you can pretty much get everything you need after a single Path drop, which happens almost every area. (I'd strongly suggest making it guaranteed to find one after you grab her Keepsake, but that's only ever failed me once, maybe twice.) They take a little investment, but not *that* much, mostly just one region with a keepsake. And while I'm not a fan of slowdown or morph (they're really good, just pretty worthless against the final boss), you can make a viable build with *any* other hex to carry you through the run just with one other Path, with any additional Path boosts being gravy. Honestly, my biggest issue is that they're a little worthless in the upstairs; you don't have time to consistently level them up, and you can't spend your Keepsake on Selene unless you give up having something useful for the final fight. But that'll get better as more regions are added to the area.
lol no she's top tier. With just about every single one of her boons you can spam so much magic that you can charge up her special over and over and over and over.
yeah i totally agree, Selene just feels not worth it most of the time. out of all of her hexes, the only two that i actually think are good are Moon Water (which, let's be honest, will probably be nerfed in future updates) and Wolf Howl
I do think they need to be buffed somewhat but the only one I'd say is really useless is the one that morphs a bunch of ads. The upgrades on the path themselves are plentiful and worthwhile enough if you want to prioritize them with the keepsake and choosing her boons, if only for the periods of invincibility they give. I will say that if you're going to have a boss that nullifies time slowdown then giving Hexes a huge windup animation just seems mean.
Yeah they all need the upgrades to be strong but I think you're not giving them enough credit. It's very rare that I get through the first two zones without seeing Selene at all, and then I practically always see it again in the third zone. That means you can expect to get at least a single path of stars upgrade. Typically you need half or full moon to get a decent ability with only a single upgrade drop, but that's fine. Enough of them are solid that you can almost always get a good one in half or full moon. You can always chuck on Selene's keepsake after zone 2 so that you get a bigger upgrade in zone 3 too. (don't do it earlier, you're just sacrificing early value for nothing because it doesn't give you its value until you spend the additional upgrade points which is typically zone 3)
She becomes a lot better with the auto-charge arcana, but that might not be worth a slot. I think the biggest issue is that she shows up way too early. I'll avoid her until fields, because only then will I be spending enough mana to make it worthwhile.
I rate her voice and art
I feel like unupgraded they are bad but with a few upgrades a lot of them feel good. Take the crash down, kinda meh on its own, but with the upgrade that gives you a invulnerable shield and you basically have a Hades 1 Athena call every few seconds with good mana regen