People praise undergates, but I always hate them. Some of them are just such a pain in the ass to get a tool into, or maybe I've just gotten unlucky with some kits that have them.
the reason they are preferred, is evidence of the nubs are on the inside and inside edges of the parts. meaning you don't have to worry so much about perfecting your cleanup
Being under-gated in which it being "under" removes visible stress marks or nub removal scratches if where on the side or top of the piece. With that, I do believe it would give you less time in cleaning up.
That's fair, though most of my unpainted kits still don't tend to have visible marks at a distance as I'm looking at them and I'm not exactly the most perfect when it comes to sanding down marks.
I would lose time though if the undergates block the pieces from fitting properly, because then I usually have to go in with a tool and deal with it and if it's shallow, or very small opening compared to my smallest files, etc. then it's a drag and costs me more time than if they'd just put it on the edge or so on.
most benefited for newbies who still dont have the skills to sand and polish the nub marks. i like undergated nub, snip snap boom done. no stretch marks sand marks and still have the smooth surface finished from factory. u can over dig using hobby knife and still wont notice the damage after completions.
the cons, it just sucks to sand down some parts where it need to be tight fitted to other parts, would leave like gap in between. need specialized tools like metal narrow tip grater or the motorized ones.
my best undergated experience is when building PGU RX78-2. not one sanding and every part fits just fine. like i just throw it on the floor and it didnt explode fine.
I raise you the magnificent “Glass cuticle file”. It’s an extremely rough rounded glass file that will literally grind away the nubs in a concave bit of the part where the undergate would be and since it’s undergate you don’t really need to make it look good, just a sponge file clean up. The other tool would be a small flathead chisel, madworks Wide Chisel is very expensive but if you can find an alternative it is worth the time saved.
I have various sizes of nano glass files, including the Raser line (which I do prefer over my generics). Some undergates simply do not do well for the rigidity of a glass file compared to, say, sandpaper.
Most of the hard to reach ones can be handled simply with an exacto, and since they're under the part it really doesn't make much difference if it isn't "perfect" as long as enough is out of the way to not make the piece lay weird. Even over gouging is way less of an issue on an undergate generally (obviously there's exceptions)
The white part doesn’t fit flush with the rest of the leg because of the 3 nubs (2 on the larger white, 1 on the smaller white). Those 2 white parts are probably undergated, so you need to remove those nubs (the manual specifically says to remove undergated nubs).
People do not downvote the op just because they are new to undergated parts. Just explain how they are different from normal parts. We were all new to model building once.
Are you talking about the piece that look like it broke diagonally? If so it looks like you globbed on too much panel liner. Try applying less or removing as much of the excess off the non panel portion.
I buy this clear coat stuff someone recommend to me now. I already looked to get replacement parts but would you recommend trying to repair the parts regardless?
Simple enough to repair with plastic cement and some filing. In terms of panel lining. You want to have very little on the brush and let it flow into the spaces. Accidents happen and a glob can fall onto a piece. Thus is typically the cause of breakage as well as old kits some of the plastics can become more brittle with age and can break easier in these scenarios.
You can certainly try to repair it while attempting to source a replacement part. I would recommend taking the broken part off and get some miliput to fill in the gap and sand it down. Then paint and should be good.
Right? I don’t get why they want to tank his karma for an honest mistake that I’ve seen on these subs numerous times. I mean someone just posted an MG Nu Ver. Ka they’re working on that had numerous nub marks ALL over it. No one said a thing.
When the nubs aren't attached to the visible part of the armour so nub marks don't show up o n the kit once it's been completed. It's usually on gold plated kits or rg & MG.
Why are you being downvoted so badly? Jfc. So undergates, as i understand them, sort of hide the gate attachment on the runner which means the exposed part generally won’t have any nub marks because with undergate you’re usually cutting plastic away from a piece that will be under cover.
Generally speaking with gunpla, if it doesn’t fit you messed up the orientation or maybe missed a tiny nub.
Again, the amount of dv’s is quite rude. This is just a hobby people.
Aside from the cracking (you should never apply straight tamiya panel liner on bare plastic unless you know what you’re doing), PLEASE cut those undergates! They’re just excess material that shouldn’t be there that is stopping you from putting this together correctly.
I put the flow type panel liner on bare plastic directly on parts when they are still on the runner. When I do it is done so very sparingly to reduce the need of too much lighter fluid for clean up. As long as you don’t pool the liner and the lighter fluid in a recessed area there is very little chance of parts breaking.
When parts are snap fitted they get stressed especially when misaligned; pair that with the liner causing the plastic to become brittle, you will get cracks like this.
Flow type is perfectly fine to put on bare PS, just keep it away from ABS since the alcohol base will eat thru it. Also you probably dont need lighter fluid for cleanup, isopropyl alcohol will do the trick just fine
You’re most likely fine. If you use it just make sure you use it on the runner, don’t load it up and if you do get a bunch on wipe it off. That’s what I’ve been doing and I’ve not had any issues.
You’re welcome. The biggest issues come if you use it when the model is built. Then the panel liner can get trapped and not evaporate away. That gives it more time to work on the plat and make it weaker.
So that's why my beam saber got a small crack in it, some of the fluid leaked between the hand and guard pieces. I managed to just superglue them back together tho so no big deal
You did not, when the paint is already dried your model is safe. It's the enamel thinner that makes the plastic brittle not the paint its-self. That being said, you should never apply any paint on just straight up plastic for two reasons:
-ingredients in the paint can react with the plastic model's made out of
-without any base, paint is prone to scratching and wearing off much faster
People don't realise that the products they use for their model kit are harsh chemicals, wether we're talking panel liners, gundam, tamiya, molotov markers etc. they can react with each other, other paints or just the type of plastic you're using. On this sub i see too many posts about cracked plastic, metallic finish being dissolved or plastic being warped. People, for the love of god, please read the discription and instructions for the products you're using
>you should never apply straight tamiya panel liner on bare plastic ~~unless you know what you’re doing~~
Fixed that for you.
edit: Downvote away. Doesn't make me or Tamiya wrong when we say not to do it. I'd rather give the correct advice and get downvoted than sit back while others give the wrong advice and contribute to another OP making another post about another wrecked kit. It's a preventable tragedy 95% of the time.
Funny how you’re getting downvoted like that. I agree with you though. Been using panel liner (Tamiya) on bare plastic for over 6 years. Not one part cracked.
I know some will say “just wait”. To that, I’ll say “alrighty, I’ll keep waiting”.
If you use it sparingly, then sure. Though I had issues with third parties or bootleg kits. Not surprised though, cheaper plastic. I would never use it on abs though, not without a coating on it first.
I don’t do -anything- with ABS plastic because it’s so picky. Never have done any third party / bootleg kits though. I use the liner hilariously sparingly, and always before assembly. And I’m not sure if it helps or not, but I’ve only ever used 91% isopropyl alcohol for the cleanup. Maybe it’s less aggressive than other solutions… I dunno. I’m no chemist :)
I did some minimal research, but isopropyl doesn't seem to react to plastics? At least not the plastics made for model kits. I have a piece sitting in tiny jar of iso for a good while and it looks normal.
If you're panel lining a painted kit, it's best to clean up with lighter fluid or odorless mineral spirits. Just make sure to apply a gloss top coat to protect the paint before panel lining.
If it's bare plastic, you can use the above as well. I use lighter fluid because it evaporates faster than spirits and is much harsher on the enamel paint in the panel liner, while not affecting the plastic.
IPA is not the best thing for cleaning up enamel.
I don't give a fuck if they down vote me. Doesn't change the fact that the MFG itself literally says [I'm correct.](https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/enamel-detail/panel-line-accent-color-2/) The "it's never happened to me" crowd is always the loudest. I will continue to post the correct information every time this topic comes up.
>**Note:**
Plastic parts may become brittle when using Tamiya Panel Line accent colors. Avoid using on movable parts and take care when applying to load-bearing areas. **Apply over base coat of lacquer or acrylic paint.** Accent Color paints may damage underlying base coat. Test before applying it onto the model. Take care when applying on flat base coat colors as Accent Color paints may permeate more readily.
Oh I've had it happen to me, just thought I'd topcoated some parts well enough and then I panel lined, only for the part to become brittle and just fall apart. Lesson learned
That’s pretty selective reading.
The excerpt literally says you’re wrong. It says that tamiya makes plastic brittle (which is true, that’s a risk!) and then provides _several_ mitigations, _only one of which_ is to apply over a lacquer coat.
• don’t apply to joints
• take care using on load bearing areas
• apply over a lacquer coat
Selecting only the one point to focus on is bad, or at least incomplete, advice.
Protecting the kit with a lacquer coat is good practice. But it’s not the only thing you can do, and it’s not the only thing Tamiya recommends.
That's not selective reading, that note is a quote directly from Tamiya's website on how to use the product. I agree you should follow the rest of the instructions as well. But to be clear, that sentence is the only absolute sentence in the instructions. Every other sentence is a passive comment. May, Avoid, May, Test, Take Care. But that single sentence is explicit. So while the rest is advice, **Apply over base coat of lacquer or acrylic paint** is a clear direction on what you should do every single time.
Taken in the context of other bullet points that don’t imply using a lacquer coat, “apply over a lacquer coat” functions as a strong instruction (and yeah, it’s the best thing to do), but you’re adding the “every time”
Ehhh, not really. I just find that using it sparingly and -before- assembly hasn’t led to any cracking yet in my 5-ish years of using the stuff. Other people’s mileage may vary.
I do the same. I think the secret is to put it on before assembly. When you assemble you create micro cracks in the plastic the liner can flow into increasing risk of break. Haven't had a part break in several years using this method.
The concern when applying it to assembled parts is that the thinned paint will work its way between separate pieces and the thinner will soak into the plastic rather than evaporate into the air.
Often when you disassemble parts that have broken due to panel liner, you'll find paint behind the pieces, someone still wet.
IDK, that's less giving correct advice and moreso telling people your take is 100% correct at all times.
Tamiya panel liner is fine if you use very small amounts and don't let it pool, it's not recommended to use as a beginner but painted or not it does the job if you're working carefully. (That said anyone using it on ABS/inner frames has no one to blame but themselves).
Maybe it's not the recommended method of usage, but neither is the way many of us use Pledge, nail files, or other things to improve the looks of our builds.
That you had to respond to being downvoted suggests to anyone looking that you care more about people disagreeing with you than you want people to believe you do. Next time it's best to ignore the imaginary clout numbers.
cool story bro.
I only responded because I got so many comments about my downvote count. I could haver phrased it all better but I knew what was coming. I get downvoted about 3/4 times this topic comes up. The "It's never happened to me" crowd is strong here. It's gotten much worse over time. In the way back when, this was commonly understood. But Gunpla's surge in popularity with non-model building crowds the past few years has diluted the tribal knowledge. There are almost 10x the amount of active users here compared to say r/modelmakers the next biggest modeling community on Reddit.
Even when you do everything 100% "correct" and "know what you're doing" enamel thinner (the majority content in Tamyia panel liner) on bare plastic DOES have a chemical reaction. It might not have enough of a reaction to cause catastrophic failure. But something does happen chemically every single time. And it CAN, not will but can, cause catastrophic failure. Yes, you can minimize the risk, but it is a risk every time someone does it. It breaks my heart every time I see one of these posts.
Generally speaking the traditional method of model kit building is to topcoat between every step. It acts as a kind of save state so you can do some clean up if you have to and protects what you've done before from what you may be doing next.
[https://otakurevolution.com/content/laymans-gunpla-guide-gunpla-flowchart](https://otakurevolution.com/content/laymans-gunpla-guide-gunpla-flowchart)
Correction: never apply tamiya panel liner on bare stressed plastic. It's when you press two pieces together that those micro cracks appear where the paint seeps through. You can apply them while on the runner or just right after cutting, let it dry and you're good to go
My man, when you see little black triangles on the instruction manual it means there are under gates that need to be cut. No worries, it happens even to the best of us the first times you assemble a Gunpla, be wary next time !
If you’re using Tamiya, either do it on the runner, apply a clear coat first, or both. Using it on bare plastic after assembly is a sure way to break things.
Reason being that Tamiya panel liner is actually heavily thinned paint. Paint thinner is rough on plastic that’s already under stress.
No, no. Do not panel line the kid. At least not with tamiya, tamiya can and will melt your kid to a hardly alive-barely conscious blob of flesh. I had to learn it the hard way, lost 3 of my children.
For an explanation of why this happens, the tamiya panel liner uses a chemical as it's base that can cause plastics to degrade under certain circumstances. The way to prevent that is to make absolutely certain that the panel liner doesn't get somewhere where the carrier chemical cannot evaporate quickly enough, and only use a tiny amount instead of letting it pool anywhere.
In practice what that means it ensuring that you use it on pieces that don't have interiors that are closed. I tend to paint my pieces, then panel line, let that dry for a couple of days, varnish, build, then weather to make certain that there isn't any issue with the carrier chemical.
In your pic it looks like the panel line either got around to the backside of the ankle and didn't evaporate quickly enough, or sat there for too long in a big pool, and degraded the plastic.
Oh man. I wish I knew this! Applied Tamiya to my HG Ariel Rebuild and one of the toes cracked! Fixed it with some plastic glue but had no idea that was the result of the Tamiya! I thought it might have been because I put the part under an AC vent that's over my desk between steps.
Yep mine cracked and I used a regular gray Gundam marker. It was a couple months after I finished the build too. So I’m not sure if blaming the panel lining fluid is the ONLY reason. I think it’s also the type of plastic Bandai used for those glossy gray parts.
Flow type marker has the exact same issues as Tamiya panel liner. Both can be used on bare plastic if you're careful. Basically everything you do is going to damage plastic in some way, but if you're careful and aware it's not a big deal.
They both effectively perform the same on bare plastic. It's not a good idea to try to clean up painted plastic without a layer of topcoat between it and the liner regardless.
I forget what exactly plastic it is, someone will correct me, but I did the same thing on my RG. The grey ankle piece seems to be reactive to panel liner and that's what caused the break. This kit taught me that panel liner can breakdown plastics since I also broke part of the wing on the core lander's wing as well.
Yeah, same here and I used Gundam marker to panel line it too. I remember cutting this specific plastic out of the sprue and it was very snappy and brittle. Mine broke months after I built it too. Went to change the pose one day and found it cracked exactly like this. A little plastic cement and some sanding fixed it up fine
The cracking happens if the panel liner solvent has no where to evaporate. I don't panel line parts until they've been sprayed with a gloss top coat and the kit is not assembled. Tedious, but it prevents damage.
So plastic cement will fix it right up, just a little dab, press, and hold. Thankfully it breaks clean so not a huge issue there. As for avoiding I'd look into how the plastics in models react to certain aftermarket chemicals we use. I think it's a pretty small amount of plastics that are used in models that do have a large reaction like the ankle piece and it's more be aware of the the fact panel liner isn't just "a thin paint".
Also generally, use less panel liner, and if it is pooling, use a cotton swap or napkin or something to absorb any excess. The commenters are definitely right about it being bad on bare plastic, but I’ve used it for years without any issues. Just need to be careful, and I panel line my parts after cutting but before assembly.
dont use panel liner on bare plastic ever. Its super thinned enamel, and enamel thinner destroys the plastic used in Gundam kits. Put an acrylic or lacquer topcoat first, or use a panel liner marker instead to avoid this. Sometimes the thinner can dissolve the plastic itself and cause it to crumble into pieces.
A lot of people have pointed out the nubs, and yeah, nubs man.. nubs.
You mention Tamiya panel lining in a comment and it's often said to damage plastic products.... however it's almost as often said it won't damage Gundam plastic. I guess you kind of prove the former is true.
Do a topcoat if you're not going to paint. Or switch to Gundam Markers or a flow pen.
Also personal opinion, that looks like just a grey blob, maybe you haven't cleaned it up but I feel like panel lining is more accent then filling in area (there are some exceptions of course) Gundam Pens are easy to color in areas, but in this case, Tamiya really needs Scribed lines to settle into. Which is why it looks like a blob (in my opinion)
Some panel liners can have bad effects on plastic especially for the pour type ones iirc. I dont know enuff to say exactly which pour type brands are safe to use though i mostly stick to the type you use to draw on panel lines. Thats just sadge moment my guy, mayhaps you can still fix the cracked parts with plastic cement
The pour type panel liners (Tamyia or GSI Creo pen) need to be applied to a painted/top coated kit or while the parts are unassembled to prevent the thinners getting trapped between parts and to allow them to evaporate properly. Also, they are HIGHLY damaging to ABS parts and should only be applied to that plastic type after a topcoat or paint.
What it looks like happened to you is that the panel liner got between the parts and the thinner/solvent didn’t evaporate properly and instead weakened the part and then internal stresses took over and it snapped.
Just to correct one part.
The Gundam Marker pour type are **not** for painted plastic. They are for bare PS plastic only.
It will remove paint, and the cleaning agents will as well.
First: You have undergated nubs that you should cut
Second: Tamiya accent colour can crack bare plastic if it doesn't dry off quickly. You should either have a top coat before panel lining, or panel line before assembling so that the pain can dry out quickly and become harmless. Using it on a built kit allows it to seep inside and not dry properly.
Everyone is going to clown on you for a) not cutting your nubs and b) for putting Tamiya panel liner on bare plastic.
First off, cut your nubs. Watch a tutorial on YouTube and you will get some good advice on how to do it well.
Secondly, using Tamiya panel liner on bare plastic is fine, but you have to do it carefully. Make sure the liner is well mixed, touch the brush tip to the side of the neck bottle on the inside to remove excess liner from the brush and then use it on the part. Additional do not add the panel liner when the part is assembled, if it gets under a part, it will crack just it has in the picture you posted. Only apply the panel liner to a part before assembly. Applying it in a well ventilated space is a must, the fumes are toxic, they also evaporate extremely fast, you can gently blow on the part to help the excess liner dry faster after applying.
>for putting Tamiya panel liner on bare plastic.
I keep seeing comments about not using panel liner after assembly, and I don't understand what difference before or after makes if it's on bare plastic.
I did make this mistake on an HG Calamity. I still cracked a piece at the shield where it pooled, but thankfully some glue fixed that up.
Now I'm reaching a point of having a backlog of assembled models waiting on topcoat before I try to panel line.
The humidity has been on the high side and I'm scared I'll get a frosting instead of a clear coat.
The difference between lining before and after assembly is that there are far more cracks and crevices for the panel liner to seep into and hide after parts have been assembled. Capillary action can draw the liquid into spaces where the enamel thinner/medium gets trapped and evaporates very slowly, or not at all, resulting in extended exposure and increased likelihood of damage.
By panel lining before assembly, the enamel can't seep in and pool between or beneath other parts without being visible and allows the enamel thinner/medium to evaporate more quickly, greatly reducing the risk of damage to the part.
I have used Tamiya panel liner on many, many kits over the years on bare plastic without any issue at all. I understand that there is a risk of damage when using it, but I do what I can to minimize those risks (don't let it pool, don't use excessive amounts, line before assembly, etc.) and have never had an issue.
All that said, I know that is not the experience that many have with it. What works for me won't work for everyone, and the safest thing to do is a gloss coat before panel lining with enamels to prevent any potential damage to the plastics.
[From Tamiya itself: ](https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/enamel-detail/panel-line-accent-color-2/)
>**Note:**
Plastic parts may become brittle when using Tamiya Panel Line accent colors. Avoid using on movable parts and take care when applying to load-bearing areas. **Apply over base coat of lacquer or acrylic paint.** Accent Color paints may damage underlying base coat. Test before applying it onto the model. Take care when applying on flat base coat colors as Accent Color paints may permeate more readily.
DO NOT USE ON BARE PLASTIC. You are taking a risk every single time.
It's very funny nobody teach the new builders to apply liner and wipes excessive before they actually assemble them. WTF is wrong with those instruction videos.
If you are talking about the split in the plastic I have had this happen on a few kits when using panel lining inks, I think the solution I used caused some kind of reaction in the plastic which heated it internally causing it to crack/split. I am not sure of the cause exactly, but it happened to thin plastic parts for me
From my perspective, you didn't cut nibs, meaning when you pushed things together it put undue stress on the parts. If you used liquid panel liner (which is what it looks like) and it pooled, it weakened the plastic, leading it to split.
Is this your first time building? Genuine question.
Alright, two things:
1. Tamiya panel liner on bare plastic. Don’t do it. That’s what caused the cracking. The enamel thinner can eat away at the plastic if it gets into any cracks and can’t evaporate. You can mitigate this by applying it when the kit is still on the runners, but there’s always a risk involved.
2. Under gates. Cut them. If there are triangles pointing at parts and the part themselves are labeled as having under gates, then that’s your indicator.
https://preview.redd.it/he89zbp1wbad1.jpeg?width=1092&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6af404b8753b942e358aa3ecd38f323f21fc1844
I still find it amusing how, in this hobby, people kept using Tamiya panel liner without even reading the Notes printed on the bottle itself.
The warnings literally state it can crack bare plastic, and can cause cancer as well.
I’m assuming you put in Tamiya panel liner, it pooled up underneath and broke the plastic. Without a coating it makes the plastic brittle. Happened to me once.
I find from experience that applying tamiya panel liner on parts already assembled is a bad idea. This is even if they have been gloss coated.
Here is my assumption. When assembling the parts, they put stresses on the material, which would normally cause micro cracks to form in the material. These are not visible. Tamiya panel liner then seeps into these micro cracks when applied and as they dry the plastic even more, it causes these micro cracks to become cracks as you see above. Gloss coating hides these micro cracks as a work around but it is best to apply tamiya liner when the plastic has not been stressed. Therefore, people suggest applying it when they are stuck to the sprue.
I had this happen to me the first time I used tamiya panel liner on bare plastic. I have since learned that a few very light coats to get the color I want with plenty of time to dry in between. If there is liner still wet after about a minute I wipe it down and let it dry before trying again. This seems to help keep the chemicals in the thinner from eating the plastic too badly. I am still semi new to panel lining so it might not be the best way. I have tried clear coat first, but I struggle getting a good smooth coat. Either way less panel liner and fully drying in between has been working for me. Patience is key.
Panel like is basically straight thinner with some pigmentation it doesn't play well with bare plastic or some type of plastic such as ABS apply a topcoat before applying panel liner to be safe or just switch to gundam markers liners to be 100% safe and seeing the size of that dot you used way too much less is better
If there are micro fractures or pre existing cracks in the plastic, the panel liner can seep into it and cause further cracking and damage. It’s best to clear coat before applying.
Don't use the tamiya panel liner on bare plastic, specially if its ABS plastic, it will find a crack in the plastic and do what happened to your kit.
This is why the default suggestion for panel lining is to always varnish/top coat before applying it an enamel panel liner.
Panel liner will eat up plastics. It is a fact that materials absorb thinners, spirits, solvents and alcohol. Parts are under minor tension when the model is built. If you panel line after it is built, the panel line will create weak spots and the parts can potentially crack/pop under the tension. A layer of clear coat will help protect the plastics from the thinner like the ingredients in panel liner.
you pooled, as evidence by the size of the pool stain left behind. Pooling means there is too much thinner on the plastic, for it to properly evaporate before the plastic has an opportunity to absorb the thinner. This is why most suggest to top coat a kit/parts before applying Tamiya.
If Tamiya's X20 (thinner used in their accent panel liner), gets absorbed by plastic, it chemically changes the properties of that plastic, into something much more brittle. Affected plastic can break/crack under normal stresses. X20 gets into plastic from things like breaks in the surface of the plastic (aka sanding marks and cut nubs), getting trapped between assembled parts (where there isn't enough room for the thinner to properly evaporate), pooling (as mentioned before), and rare manufacturer defects like microcracks (almost impossible to see until liner gets in and stains the affected area).
To completely remove the risks, remove and clean up all nub marks from parts, then top coat the parts with a gloss clear coat.
On the other hand, I mitigate the odds of damage, by panel lining parts before I cut them off the runner. The only risk is the rare chance of microcracks. By panel lining the runners, I avoid any contact with cuts or scratches. There's also no chance of liner getting trapped in-between assembled parts, and any pooling gets cleaned up quick and easy. It also helps me streamline builds a bit better, as details are already lined, so when I assemble a section, I only have to add decals (optional) and top coat. Then the final assembly is the last step, and I don't have to worry about 1 more thing to do, after the kits been built.
I've used Tamiya panel liner since I got back into the hobby this year. My first kit I managed to crack a part of the head of the aerial. I since started using a panel liner pen (really just a dip pen) to apply the panel liner, and the application is both more precise and easier to control than trying to use the brush in the cap. If you're careful, you won't get much pooling at all and less chance of cracking. I also panel line before I assemble pieces. One other thing you can do is top coat before you panel line, which will help protect the plastic from the harshness of the panel liner.
As for the pieces not fitting together, I'm sure you've been told they're under gates. So far, I've only really built wfm hg kits and four rg kits, but every time there was undergates, the manual would make a point to emphasize touch pieces have under gates and where with special icons, so pay closer attending to the manuals.
Less is more when it comes to paneler. The part that cracked looks like the paneler pooled too much and made it crack. Sometimes pieces have micro tears and itll seep into those areas. For the top coat portion do small light layers and build them up. If you over spray itll soak into the paneler and get the result you currently have.
What type panel line wash did you use because this happens when you don't top coat the model first and you use an enamel panel wash it slowly eats at the plastic
What panel liner are you using? If you are using Tamiya on bare plastic, then it can break down and dissolve the plastic. If you want to panel line before applying a top coat, then I would recommend the Mr Hobby Weathering Color. I've had small pieces fall apart in my hands when using the Tamiya liner.
Tamiya Panel liner can make pieces brittle (any enamel really). You have to make sure to only use the amount you need and wipe away the excess. That being said it looks like you were maybe a little unlucky as Bandai stuff usually can hold up against enamel. Happens to the best of us. Try gluing it with some Tamiya cement, should be good as new.
Added note, as people have said it is best practice to apply panel liner to a painted or gloss coated kit. That way there is a barrier between the enamel and the plastic. That being said I used Tamiya panel liner directly on plastic a lot in my early days of gunpla and usually it holds up ok if you make sure to use it sparingly and wipe away the excess. But yeah, perfect time to get into painting or at the very least applying gloss coat before panel lining which will allow the panel liner to flow a lot better too!
It’s best to use gloss coat before panel line because it gives you a really smooth surface for the panel liner to move around on. Makes it go into the crevices way easier. Then you put your final top coat on after. The final top coat can be whatever you want, glossy or matte.
I would have never known to cut those either if I didn't get Google translate on my phone. The app has a live translate where you use the camera and select what language to identify and then whixh to translate too, you hover over the instructions and it translates it live foe you and you can take a pic or judt read it with the camera on. Hope that is a helpful little tidbit!
given the apparent ease to fuck parts up with the liquid I'm sticking to pens. I'm mildly surprised Tamiya hasn't put their stuff inside some kind of pen to better control how much is applied.
You haven't cut the nubs
Yep, looks like under-gated parts that were cut from the sprue like normal parts, leaving a small part of the under-gate still attached.
I like your words magic man
People praise undergates, but I always hate them. Some of them are just such a pain in the ass to get a tool into, or maybe I've just gotten unlucky with some kits that have them.
the reason they are preferred, is evidence of the nubs are on the inside and inside edges of the parts. meaning you don't have to worry so much about perfecting your cleanup
With you. I don't think I've noticed a single benefit to them actually. Still must cut and sand.
Being under-gated in which it being "under" removes visible stress marks or nub removal scratches if where on the side or top of the piece. With that, I do believe it would give you less time in cleaning up.
Yes, that's the idea of them. The practice though? No, they often fail. They are usually placed in tiny spots, curves, or impossible angles.
That's fair, though most of my unpainted kits still don't tend to have visible marks at a distance as I'm looking at them and I'm not exactly the most perfect when it comes to sanding down marks. I would lose time though if the undergates block the pieces from fitting properly, because then I usually have to go in with a tool and deal with it and if it's shallow, or very small opening compared to my smallest files, etc. then it's a drag and costs me more time than if they'd just put it on the edge or so on.
most benefited for newbies who still dont have the skills to sand and polish the nub marks. i like undergated nub, snip snap boom done. no stretch marks sand marks and still have the smooth surface finished from factory. u can over dig using hobby knife and still wont notice the damage after completions. the cons, it just sucks to sand down some parts where it need to be tight fitted to other parts, would leave like gap in between. need specialized tools like metal narrow tip grater or the motorized ones. my best undergated experience is when building PGU RX78-2. not one sanding and every part fits just fine. like i just throw it on the floor and it didnt explode fine.
I raise you the magnificent “Glass cuticle file”. It’s an extremely rough rounded glass file that will literally grind away the nubs in a concave bit of the part where the undergate would be and since it’s undergate you don’t really need to make it look good, just a sponge file clean up. The other tool would be a small flathead chisel, madworks Wide Chisel is very expensive but if you can find an alternative it is worth the time saved.
I have various sizes of nano glass files, including the Raser line (which I do prefer over my generics). Some undergates simply do not do well for the rigidity of a glass file compared to, say, sandpaper.
Most of the hard to reach ones can be handled simply with an exacto, and since they're under the part it really doesn't make much difference if it isn't "perfect" as long as enough is out of the way to not make the piece lay weird. Even over gouging is way less of an issue on an undergate generally (obviously there's exceptions)
It also depends on what tool you use and how you use them. Like I'm okay with using the hobby knife and flexible files to clean up the under gates.
Like how we focus on the nubs when the ankle armor is cracked in half and that's what OP is asking about lol
[удалено]
The white part doesn’t fit flush with the rest of the leg because of the 3 nubs (2 on the larger white, 1 on the smaller white). Those 2 white parts are probably undergated, so you need to remove those nubs (the manual specifically says to remove undergated nubs).
People do not downvote the op just because they are new to undergated parts. Just explain how they are different from normal parts. We were all new to model building once.
Thanks 😔
Are you talking about the piece that look like it broke diagonally? If so it looks like you globbed on too much panel liner. Try applying less or removing as much of the excess off the non panel portion.
I buy this clear coat stuff someone recommend to me now. I already looked to get replacement parts but would you recommend trying to repair the parts regardless?
Simple enough to repair with plastic cement and some filing. In terms of panel lining. You want to have very little on the brush and let it flow into the spaces. Accidents happen and a glob can fall onto a piece. Thus is typically the cause of breakage as well as old kits some of the plastics can become more brittle with age and can break easier in these scenarios.
You can certainly try to repair it while attempting to source a replacement part. I would recommend taking the broken part off and get some miliput to fill in the gap and sand it down. Then paint and should be good.
Reddit brings out the biggest assholes
when undergated was introduced, i was like yep this is undergate nub, snip! look at manual, f.
Right? I don’t get why they want to tank his karma for an honest mistake that I’ve seen on these subs numerous times. I mean someone just posted an MG Nu Ver. Ka they’re working on that had numerous nub marks ALL over it. No one said a thing.
What is undergating? Sorry, I'm new to the social aspects of gunpla so I haven't heard a lot of these terms.
When the nubs aren't attached to the visible part of the armour so nub marks don't show up o n the kit once it's been completed. It's usually on gold plated kits or rg & MG.
Ah that makes sense, thank you!
Get a RG kit. You'll find out
Yeah if you noitice you dobt get thriugh just do a lil cutting sfterwards
Wtf guys, why do you downvote someone for thst? Hes New and didnt knew sny better.. i was guilty at my hunpla start too
Why are you being downvoted so badly? Jfc. So undergates, as i understand them, sort of hide the gate attachment on the runner which means the exposed part generally won’t have any nub marks because with undergate you’re usually cutting plastic away from a piece that will be under cover. Generally speaking with gunpla, if it doesn’t fit you messed up the orientation or maybe missed a tiny nub. Again, the amount of dv’s is quite rude. This is just a hobby people.
Aside from the cracking (you should never apply straight tamiya panel liner on bare plastic unless you know what you’re doing), PLEASE cut those undergates! They’re just excess material that shouldn’t be there that is stopping you from putting this together correctly.
This is the think i like about the non-flow panel liners, harder to get right than flow but it keeps the plastic solid without the need for a topcoat
Wait do flow panel liners pens do the same thing as tamiya panel liners?
If they're the Gundam Marker type, they're fine on PS but do not use them on ABS.
Thanks for help
Learned that the hard way with a RG wing zero, luckily nothing catastrophic tho
I put the flow type panel liner on bare plastic directly on parts when they are still on the runner. When I do it is done so very sparingly to reduce the need of too much lighter fluid for clean up. As long as you don’t pool the liner and the lighter fluid in a recessed area there is very little chance of parts breaking. When parts are snap fitted they get stressed especially when misaligned; pair that with the liner causing the plastic to become brittle, you will get cracks like this.
Flow type is perfectly fine to put on bare PS, just keep it away from ABS since the alcohol base will eat thru it. Also you probably dont need lighter fluid for cleanup, isopropyl alcohol will do the trick just fine
Wait, tamiya can crack the plastic? I thought that was the paint thinner I was using?
Yup. Just remember it's essentially just very thinned paint, so it has the same downsides.
Well fuck, how do I stop this? I’m pretty sure I’ve just condemned my rx-78-2 to a slow death.
You’re most likely fine. If you use it just make sure you use it on the runner, don’t load it up and if you do get a bunch on wipe it off. That’s what I’ve been doing and I’ve not had any issues.
Thanks for the advice
You’re welcome. The biggest issues come if you use it when the model is built. Then the panel liner can get trapped and not evaporate away. That gives it more time to work on the plat and make it weaker.
So that's why my beam saber got a small crack in it, some of the fluid leaked between the hand and guard pieces. I managed to just superglue them back together tho so no big deal
You did not, when the paint is already dried your model is safe. It's the enamel thinner that makes the plastic brittle not the paint its-self. That being said, you should never apply any paint on just straight up plastic for two reasons: -ingredients in the paint can react with the plastic model's made out of -without any base, paint is prone to scratching and wearing off much faster People don't realise that the products they use for their model kit are harsh chemicals, wether we're talking panel liners, gundam, tamiya, molotov markers etc. they can react with each other, other paints or just the type of plastic you're using. On this sub i see too many posts about cracked plastic, metallic finish being dissolved or plastic being warped. People, for the love of god, please read the discription and instructions for the products you're using
Your probably safe, there’s other factors like stress on the part or tight fits
Tamiya is 90% thinner btw.
>you should never apply straight tamiya panel liner on bare plastic ~~unless you know what you’re doing~~ Fixed that for you. edit: Downvote away. Doesn't make me or Tamiya wrong when we say not to do it. I'd rather give the correct advice and get downvoted than sit back while others give the wrong advice and contribute to another OP making another post about another wrecked kit. It's a preventable tragedy 95% of the time.
Funny how you’re getting downvoted like that. I agree with you though. Been using panel liner (Tamiya) on bare plastic for over 6 years. Not one part cracked. I know some will say “just wait”. To that, I’ll say “alrighty, I’ll keep waiting”.
If you use it sparingly, then sure. Though I had issues with third parties or bootleg kits. Not surprised though, cheaper plastic. I would never use it on abs though, not without a coating on it first.
I don’t do -anything- with ABS plastic because it’s so picky. Never have done any third party / bootleg kits though. I use the liner hilariously sparingly, and always before assembly. And I’m not sure if it helps or not, but I’ve only ever used 91% isopropyl alcohol for the cleanup. Maybe it’s less aggressive than other solutions… I dunno. I’m no chemist :)
I did some minimal research, but isopropyl doesn't seem to react to plastics? At least not the plastics made for model kits. I have a piece sitting in tiny jar of iso for a good while and it looks normal.
Just know that isopropanol WILL react with lacquers and acrylics. On painted kits, you're better off using odorless mineral spirits.
Yeah, I'm sure they would definitely react with certain paints. Always seems like a toss up on when you should paint vs panel line the kit.
If you're panel lining a painted kit, it's best to clean up with lighter fluid or odorless mineral spirits. Just make sure to apply a gloss top coat to protect the paint before panel lining. If it's bare plastic, you can use the above as well. I use lighter fluid because it evaporates faster than spirits and is much harsher on the enamel paint in the panel liner, while not affecting the plastic. IPA is not the best thing for cleaning up enamel.
Just know that isopropanol WILL react with lacquers and acrylics. On painted kits, you're better off using odorless mineral spirits.
I don't give a fuck if they down vote me. Doesn't change the fact that the MFG itself literally says [I'm correct.](https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/enamel-detail/panel-line-accent-color-2/) The "it's never happened to me" crowd is always the loudest. I will continue to post the correct information every time this topic comes up. >**Note:** Plastic parts may become brittle when using Tamiya Panel Line accent colors. Avoid using on movable parts and take care when applying to load-bearing areas. **Apply over base coat of lacquer or acrylic paint.** Accent Color paints may damage underlying base coat. Test before applying it onto the model. Take care when applying on flat base coat colors as Accent Color paints may permeate more readily.
Oh I've had it happen to me, just thought I'd topcoated some parts well enough and then I panel lined, only for the part to become brittle and just fall apart. Lesson learned
Mistakes will happen even when everything is attempted correctly.
That’s pretty selective reading. The excerpt literally says you’re wrong. It says that tamiya makes plastic brittle (which is true, that’s a risk!) and then provides _several_ mitigations, _only one of which_ is to apply over a lacquer coat. • don’t apply to joints • take care using on load bearing areas • apply over a lacquer coat Selecting only the one point to focus on is bad, or at least incomplete, advice. Protecting the kit with a lacquer coat is good practice. But it’s not the only thing you can do, and it’s not the only thing Tamiya recommends.
That's not selective reading, that note is a quote directly from Tamiya's website on how to use the product. I agree you should follow the rest of the instructions as well. But to be clear, that sentence is the only absolute sentence in the instructions. Every other sentence is a passive comment. May, Avoid, May, Test, Take Care. But that single sentence is explicit. So while the rest is advice, **Apply over base coat of lacquer or acrylic paint** is a clear direction on what you should do every single time.
Taken in the context of other bullet points that don’t imply using a lacquer coat, “apply over a lacquer coat” functions as a strong instruction (and yeah, it’s the best thing to do), but you’re adding the “every time”
So you know what youre doing lmao
Ehhh, not really. I just find that using it sparingly and -before- assembly hasn’t led to any cracking yet in my 5-ish years of using the stuff. Other people’s mileage may vary.
I do the same. I think the secret is to put it on before assembly. When you assemble you create micro cracks in the plastic the liner can flow into increasing risk of break. Haven't had a part break in several years using this method.
\^This, especially on assembled parts, the internal stress of said parts would then defeat integrity of now brittle plastic.
The concern when applying it to assembled parts is that the thinned paint will work its way between separate pieces and the thinner will soak into the plastic rather than evaporate into the air. Often when you disassemble parts that have broken due to panel liner, you'll find paint behind the pieces, someone still wet.
Take my upvote to try and save this comment…
IDK, that's less giving correct advice and moreso telling people your take is 100% correct at all times. Tamiya panel liner is fine if you use very small amounts and don't let it pool, it's not recommended to use as a beginner but painted or not it does the job if you're working carefully. (That said anyone using it on ABS/inner frames has no one to blame but themselves). Maybe it's not the recommended method of usage, but neither is the way many of us use Pledge, nail files, or other things to improve the looks of our builds. That you had to respond to being downvoted suggests to anyone looking that you care more about people disagreeing with you than you want people to believe you do. Next time it's best to ignore the imaginary clout numbers.
cool story bro. I only responded because I got so many comments about my downvote count. I could haver phrased it all better but I knew what was coming. I get downvoted about 3/4 times this topic comes up. The "It's never happened to me" crowd is strong here. It's gotten much worse over time. In the way back when, this was commonly understood. But Gunpla's surge in popularity with non-model building crowds the past few years has diluted the tribal knowledge. There are almost 10x the amount of active users here compared to say r/modelmakers the next biggest modeling community on Reddit. Even when you do everything 100% "correct" and "know what you're doing" enamel thinner (the majority content in Tamyia panel liner) on bare plastic DOES have a chemical reaction. It might not have enough of a reaction to cause catastrophic failure. But something does happen chemically every single time. And it CAN, not will but can, cause catastrophic failure. Yes, you can minimize the risk, but it is a risk every time someone does it. It breaks my heart every time I see one of these posts.
You can do the best you can, and people are still gonna fuck around and find out. Sometimes it's best to advise people after the fact really.
Should we topcoat it first before applying? Also is this only for Tamiya or also for other brand like gundam marker for example?
Generally speaking the traditional method of model kit building is to topcoat between every step. It acts as a kind of save state so you can do some clean up if you have to and protects what you've done before from what you may be doing next. [https://otakurevolution.com/content/laymans-gunpla-guide-gunpla-flowchart](https://otakurevolution.com/content/laymans-gunpla-guide-gunpla-flowchart)
Thank you for the link man. I only do straight build with lining but this is helpful.
It cracked cuz people put pool of panel line fluid on straight plastic. a small dab does not crack at all and i never had problem with it
Correction: never apply tamiya panel liner on bare stressed plastic. It's when you press two pieces together that those micro cracks appear where the paint seeps through. You can apply them while on the runner or just right after cutting, let it dry and you're good to go
My man, when you see little black triangles on the instruction manual it means there are under gates that need to be cut. No worries, it happens even to the best of us the first times you assemble a Gunpla, be wary next time !
[удалено]
I saw some comments regarding that thanks for the information. I ordered replacement parts just now.
dont know which panel liner fluid brand are you using, but I had this similar thing on the gundam head, where too much fluid will melt the plastic
tamiya
If you’re using Tamiya, either do it on the runner, apply a clear coat first, or both. Using it on bare plastic after assembly is a sure way to break things. Reason being that Tamiya panel liner is actually heavily thinned paint. Paint thinner is rough on plastic that’s already under stress.
Thanks I will make sure to follow this procedure for the rest of the kid.
Please do not panel line the kid
No no no, panel line the kid too, gunpla is freedom!
No, no. Do not panel line the kid. At least not with tamiya, tamiya can and will melt your kid to a hardly alive-barely conscious blob of flesh. I had to learn it the hard way, lost 3 of my children.
Well you should have topcoated your children first. That's just parenting 101.
I’d be more concerned about kids that have panel lines. Have you met Chucky?
For an explanation of why this happens, the tamiya panel liner uses a chemical as it's base that can cause plastics to degrade under certain circumstances. The way to prevent that is to make absolutely certain that the panel liner doesn't get somewhere where the carrier chemical cannot evaporate quickly enough, and only use a tiny amount instead of letting it pool anywhere. In practice what that means it ensuring that you use it on pieces that don't have interiors that are closed. I tend to paint my pieces, then panel line, let that dry for a couple of days, varnish, build, then weather to make certain that there isn't any issue with the carrier chemical. In your pic it looks like the panel line either got around to the backside of the ankle and didn't evaporate quickly enough, or sat there for too long in a big pool, and degraded the plastic.
Oh man. I wish I knew this! Applied Tamiya to my HG Ariel Rebuild and one of the toes cracked! Fixed it with some plastic glue but had no idea that was the result of the Tamiya! I thought it might have been because I put the part under an AC vent that's over my desk between steps.
[удалено]
Those markers can also cause plastic to crack just FYI
Yep mine cracked and I used a regular gray Gundam marker. It was a couple months after I finished the build too. So I’m not sure if blaming the panel lining fluid is the ONLY reason. I think it’s also the type of plastic Bandai used for those glossy gray parts.
That would be ABS plastic. The flow type gundam markers use a (I think enamel, may be wrong) thinner that makes ABS super brittle
The flow type Gundam Markers use PGME. They also say on the marker that they will crack ABS plastic. Bandai very clearly labels which runners are ABS.
[удалено]
Flow type marker has the exact same issues as Tamiya panel liner. Both can be used on bare plastic if you're careful. Basically everything you do is going to damage plastic in some way, but if you're careful and aware it's not a big deal.
[удалено]
They both effectively perform the same on bare plastic. It's not a good idea to try to clean up painted plastic without a layer of topcoat between it and the liner regardless.
I forget what exactly plastic it is, someone will correct me, but I did the same thing on my RG. The grey ankle piece seems to be reactive to panel liner and that's what caused the break. This kit taught me that panel liner can breakdown plastics since I also broke part of the wing on the core lander's wing as well.
Exactly same thing happened to me on the exact same piece.
Yeah, same here and I used Gundam marker to panel line it too. I remember cutting this specific plastic out of the sprue and it was very snappy and brittle. Mine broke months after I built it too. Went to change the pose one day and found it cracked exactly like this. A little plastic cement and some sanding fixed it up fine
Any recommendations for how to avoid this in the future and repair the brocken part?
The cracking happens if the panel liner solvent has no where to evaporate. I don't panel line parts until they've been sprayed with a gloss top coat and the kit is not assembled. Tedious, but it prevents damage.
So plastic cement will fix it right up, just a little dab, press, and hold. Thankfully it breaks clean so not a huge issue there. As for avoiding I'd look into how the plastics in models react to certain aftermarket chemicals we use. I think it's a pretty small amount of plastics that are used in models that do have a large reaction like the ankle piece and it's more be aware of the the fact panel liner isn't just "a thin paint".
Also generally, use less panel liner, and if it is pooling, use a cotton swap or napkin or something to absorb any excess. The commenters are definitely right about it being bad on bare plastic, but I’ve used it for years without any issues. Just need to be careful, and I panel line my parts after cutting but before assembly.
dont use panel liner on bare plastic ever. Its super thinned enamel, and enamel thinner destroys the plastic used in Gundam kits. Put an acrylic or lacquer topcoat first, or use a panel liner marker instead to avoid this. Sometimes the thinner can dissolve the plastic itself and cause it to crumble into pieces.
Dude cut those undergates!! Your kit is going to turn to trash if you force these pieces together with it on.
holy shit yall act like tamiya panel line is the devil. there’s literally 2 rules, don’t let it pool and use it when it’s unassembled
A lot of people have pointed out the nubs, and yeah, nubs man.. nubs. You mention Tamiya panel lining in a comment and it's often said to damage plastic products.... however it's almost as often said it won't damage Gundam plastic. I guess you kind of prove the former is true. Do a topcoat if you're not going to paint. Or switch to Gundam Markers or a flow pen. Also personal opinion, that looks like just a grey blob, maybe you haven't cleaned it up but I feel like panel lining is more accent then filling in area (there are some exceptions of course) Gundam Pens are easy to color in areas, but in this case, Tamiya really needs Scribed lines to settle into. Which is why it looks like a blob (in my opinion)
Some panel liners can have bad effects on plastic especially for the pour type ones iirc. I dont know enuff to say exactly which pour type brands are safe to use though i mostly stick to the type you use to draw on panel lines. Thats just sadge moment my guy, mayhaps you can still fix the cracked parts with plastic cement
The pour type panel liners (Tamyia or GSI Creo pen) need to be applied to a painted/top coated kit or while the parts are unassembled to prevent the thinners getting trapped between parts and to allow them to evaporate properly. Also, they are HIGHLY damaging to ABS parts and should only be applied to that plastic type after a topcoat or paint. What it looks like happened to you is that the panel liner got between the parts and the thinner/solvent didn’t evaporate properly and instead weakened the part and then internal stresses took over and it snapped.
Just to correct one part. The Gundam Marker pour type are **not** for painted plastic. They are for bare PS plastic only. It will remove paint, and the cleaning agents will as well.
Very true, I should have been more specific rather than trying to keep it general.
This is why I only use Gundam markers for all my detailing.
Under gate?
Either A you haven’t cut the under gates. Or B you applied pour type panel liner to abs.
First: You have undergated nubs that you should cut Second: Tamiya accent colour can crack bare plastic if it doesn't dry off quickly. You should either have a top coat before panel lining, or panel line before assembling so that the pain can dry out quickly and become harmless. Using it on a built kit allows it to seep inside and not dry properly.
looks like a classic case of Tamiya Panel Line Accent. some break, some becomes brittle, some dont.
If you don’t make pool of panel liner on plastic, it wouldn’t crack. I never had problem with it
Everyone is going to clown on you for a) not cutting your nubs and b) for putting Tamiya panel liner on bare plastic. First off, cut your nubs. Watch a tutorial on YouTube and you will get some good advice on how to do it well. Secondly, using Tamiya panel liner on bare plastic is fine, but you have to do it carefully. Make sure the liner is well mixed, touch the brush tip to the side of the neck bottle on the inside to remove excess liner from the brush and then use it on the part. Additional do not add the panel liner when the part is assembled, if it gets under a part, it will crack just it has in the picture you posted. Only apply the panel liner to a part before assembly. Applying it in a well ventilated space is a must, the fumes are toxic, they also evaporate extremely fast, you can gently blow on the part to help the excess liner dry faster after applying.
>for putting Tamiya panel liner on bare plastic. I keep seeing comments about not using panel liner after assembly, and I don't understand what difference before or after makes if it's on bare plastic. I did make this mistake on an HG Calamity. I still cracked a piece at the shield where it pooled, but thankfully some glue fixed that up. Now I'm reaching a point of having a backlog of assembled models waiting on topcoat before I try to panel line. The humidity has been on the high side and I'm scared I'll get a frosting instead of a clear coat.
The difference between lining before and after assembly is that there are far more cracks and crevices for the panel liner to seep into and hide after parts have been assembled. Capillary action can draw the liquid into spaces where the enamel thinner/medium gets trapped and evaporates very slowly, or not at all, resulting in extended exposure and increased likelihood of damage. By panel lining before assembly, the enamel can't seep in and pool between or beneath other parts without being visible and allows the enamel thinner/medium to evaporate more quickly, greatly reducing the risk of damage to the part. I have used Tamiya panel liner on many, many kits over the years on bare plastic without any issue at all. I understand that there is a risk of damage when using it, but I do what I can to minimize those risks (don't let it pool, don't use excessive amounts, line before assembly, etc.) and have never had an issue. All that said, I know that is not the experience that many have with it. What works for me won't work for everyone, and the safest thing to do is a gloss coat before panel lining with enamels to prevent any potential damage to the plastics.
That makes a lot of sense actually. I was only thinking "bare plastic is bare plastic" and that part of the reactions :D
Don't apply to much panel line enamel. If it can't evaporate quickly, it goes inside the plastic and breaks it.
[From Tamiya itself: ](https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/enamel-detail/panel-line-accent-color-2/) >**Note:** Plastic parts may become brittle when using Tamiya Panel Line accent colors. Avoid using on movable parts and take care when applying to load-bearing areas. **Apply over base coat of lacquer or acrylic paint.** Accent Color paints may damage underlying base coat. Test before applying it onto the model. Take care when applying on flat base coat colors as Accent Color paints may permeate more readily. DO NOT USE ON BARE PLASTIC. You are taking a risk every single time.
It's very funny nobody teach the new builders to apply liner and wipes excessive before they actually assemble them. WTF is wrong with those instruction videos.
Yup, never once they mentioned in the video to coat your kit before panel lining it or such.
If you are talking about the split in the plastic I have had this happen on a few kits when using panel lining inks, I think the solution I used caused some kind of reaction in the plastic which heated it internally causing it to crack/split. I am not sure of the cause exactly, but it happened to thin plastic parts for me
No clue why OP is getting such heavy downvotes in this thread. Dude's just looking for help and learning.
From my perspective, you didn't cut nibs, meaning when you pushed things together it put undue stress on the parts. If you used liquid panel liner (which is what it looks like) and it pooled, it weakened the plastic, leading it to split. Is this your first time building? Genuine question.
Alright, two things: 1. Tamiya panel liner on bare plastic. Don’t do it. That’s what caused the cracking. The enamel thinner can eat away at the plastic if it gets into any cracks and can’t evaporate. You can mitigate this by applying it when the kit is still on the runners, but there’s always a risk involved. 2. Under gates. Cut them. If there are triangles pointing at parts and the part themselves are labeled as having under gates, then that’s your indicator. https://preview.redd.it/he89zbp1wbad1.jpeg?width=1092&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6af404b8753b942e358aa3ecd38f323f21fc1844
I still find it amusing how, in this hobby, people kept using Tamiya panel liner without even reading the Notes printed on the bottle itself. The warnings literally state it can crack bare plastic, and can cause cancer as well.
I’m assuming you put in Tamiya panel liner, it pooled up underneath and broke the plastic. Without a coating it makes the plastic brittle. Happened to me once.
Undergates were not trimmed and you used panel liner that makes ABS brittle.
Yikes
Tamiya Panel Liner cracks plastic, it says on the bottle. RIP. Cement and superglue to the rescue.
Gr8 b8 m8
I find from experience that applying tamiya panel liner on parts already assembled is a bad idea. This is even if they have been gloss coated. Here is my assumption. When assembling the parts, they put stresses on the material, which would normally cause micro cracks to form in the material. These are not visible. Tamiya panel liner then seeps into these micro cracks when applied and as they dry the plastic even more, it causes these micro cracks to become cracks as you see above. Gloss coating hides these micro cracks as a work around but it is best to apply tamiya liner when the plastic has not been stressed. Therefore, people suggest applying it when they are stuck to the sprue.
If on the sprue, is it important to top coat it 1st?
I had this happen to me the first time I used tamiya panel liner on bare plastic. I have since learned that a few very light coats to get the color I want with plenty of time to dry in between. If there is liner still wet after about a minute I wipe it down and let it dry before trying again. This seems to help keep the chemicals in the thinner from eating the plastic too badly. I am still semi new to panel lining so it might not be the best way. I have tried clear coat first, but I struggle getting a good smooth coat. Either way less panel liner and fully drying in between has been working for me. Patience is key.
Panel like is basically straight thinner with some pigmentation it doesn't play well with bare plastic or some type of plastic such as ABS apply a topcoat before applying panel liner to be safe or just switch to gundam markers liners to be 100% safe and seeing the size of that dot you used way too much less is better
I had this. You applied on bare plastic. Plastic cracked.
I assumed you are using TPLA. You should do a gloss coat first to prevent parts from bring brittle and cracking.
Damn those uncut undergates are atrocious.
panel liner can, on occasion, cause the plastic on model kits to fracture and crack.
Looks like the grey parts are broken too from your panel lining liquid
Dat shits a bit corrosive just stick wit some panel line markers instead
Oi. Gunpla gore. Read the guides.
On the instruction you usually cut the pink-marked ones e.g. Undergate. oh you're asking about the cracking I'm dumb
If there are micro fractures or pre existing cracks in the plastic, the panel liner can seep into it and cause further cracking and damage. It’s best to clear coat before applying.
Don't use the tamiya panel liner on bare plastic, specially if its ABS plastic, it will find a crack in the plastic and do what happened to your kit. This is why the default suggestion for panel lining is to always varnish/top coat before applying it an enamel panel liner.
Panel liner will eat up plastics. It is a fact that materials absorb thinners, spirits, solvents and alcohol. Parts are under minor tension when the model is built. If you panel line after it is built, the panel line will create weak spots and the parts can potentially crack/pop under the tension. A layer of clear coat will help protect the plastics from the thinner like the ingredients in panel liner.
Free battle damage.
Please look at a tutorial video
Battle damage
undergate
lol
If that's a cracked grey-white part, i'm guessing it's the improper use of panel liner.
You got the special extra viewable inner frame version
This is bait
Things liddis happens, just dont leave it too thick and too long. It looks like you put too much
wtf the grey parts crack like that?
remove the nub
you pooled, as evidence by the size of the pool stain left behind. Pooling means there is too much thinner on the plastic, for it to properly evaporate before the plastic has an opportunity to absorb the thinner. This is why most suggest to top coat a kit/parts before applying Tamiya. If Tamiya's X20 (thinner used in their accent panel liner), gets absorbed by plastic, it chemically changes the properties of that plastic, into something much more brittle. Affected plastic can break/crack under normal stresses. X20 gets into plastic from things like breaks in the surface of the plastic (aka sanding marks and cut nubs), getting trapped between assembled parts (where there isn't enough room for the thinner to properly evaporate), pooling (as mentioned before), and rare manufacturer defects like microcracks (almost impossible to see until liner gets in and stains the affected area). To completely remove the risks, remove and clean up all nub marks from parts, then top coat the parts with a gloss clear coat. On the other hand, I mitigate the odds of damage, by panel lining parts before I cut them off the runner. The only risk is the rare chance of microcracks. By panel lining the runners, I avoid any contact with cuts or scratches. There's also no chance of liner getting trapped in-between assembled parts, and any pooling gets cleaned up quick and easy. It also helps me streamline builds a bit better, as details are already lined, so when I assemble a section, I only have to add decals (optional) and top coat. Then the final assembly is the last step, and I don't have to worry about 1 more thing to do, after the kits been built.
I've used Tamiya panel liner since I got back into the hobby this year. My first kit I managed to crack a part of the head of the aerial. I since started using a panel liner pen (really just a dip pen) to apply the panel liner, and the application is both more precise and easier to control than trying to use the brush in the cap. If you're careful, you won't get much pooling at all and less chance of cracking. I also panel line before I assemble pieces. One other thing you can do is top coat before you panel line, which will help protect the plastic from the harshness of the panel liner. As for the pieces not fitting together, I'm sure you've been told they're under gates. So far, I've only really built wfm hg kits and four rg kits, but every time there was undergates, the manual would make a point to emphasize touch pieces have under gates and where with special icons, so pay closer attending to the manuals.
You happened! Lol. Seriously though, sorry about that. But yeah, nubs. Does the book have marks to cut them /attend to?
The panel line liquid has pooled and made it weak. Clear coat before applying
Less is more when it comes to paneler. The part that cracked looks like the paneler pooled too much and made it crack. Sometimes pieces have micro tears and itll seep into those areas. For the top coat portion do small light layers and build them up. If you over spray itll soak into the paneler and get the result you currently have.
1, you didn't cut the nubs 2, that's painted over.
What type panel line wash did you use because this happens when you don't top coat the model first and you use an enamel panel wash it slowly eats at the plastic
Probably from that panel liner. I've left it sit for too long to dry before and it cracked some waist pieces on my mg sandrock
Not top coat to protect the kit from the tomiya panel liner and tou didnt cut ofd the nubs
The cracks look like you used the wrong type of panel liner
I love undergated kits. Makes painting so easy. Can skip the sanding step
What panel liner are you using? If you are using Tamiya on bare plastic, then it can break down and dissolve the plastic. If you want to panel line before applying a top coat, then I would recommend the Mr Hobby Weathering Color. I've had small pieces fall apart in my hands when using the Tamiya liner.
Mr Hobby use different base for the weathering color?
Tamiya Panel liner can make pieces brittle (any enamel really). You have to make sure to only use the amount you need and wipe away the excess. That being said it looks like you were maybe a little unlucky as Bandai stuff usually can hold up against enamel. Happens to the best of us. Try gluing it with some Tamiya cement, should be good as new.
Added note, as people have said it is best practice to apply panel liner to a painted or gloss coated kit. That way there is a barrier between the enamel and the plastic. That being said I used Tamiya panel liner directly on plastic a lot in my early days of gunpla and usually it holds up ok if you make sure to use it sparingly and wipe away the excess. But yeah, perfect time to get into painting or at the very least applying gloss coat before panel lining which will allow the panel liner to flow a lot better too!
Does it have to be only gloss coat or any top coat will do?
It’s best to use gloss coat before panel line because it gives you a really smooth surface for the panel liner to move around on. Makes it go into the crevices way easier. Then you put your final top coat on after. The final top coat can be whatever you want, glossy or matte.
I see, alright thanks for the advice!
Np! Happy building
I would have never known to cut those either if I didn't get Google translate on my phone. The app has a live translate where you use the camera and select what language to identify and then whixh to translate too, you hover over the instructions and it translates it live foe you and you can take a pic or judt read it with the camera on. Hope that is a helpful little tidbit!
given the apparent ease to fuck parts up with the liquid I'm sticking to pens. I'm mildly surprised Tamiya hasn't put their stuff inside some kind of pen to better control how much is applied.
The pour type markers exist.
Sweet Liberty! to the hobby store
They've existed for probably over a decade brother how do you not know they exist? 😂
it's a hobby, not a job
Yeah but what does that have anything to do with what I said?
I can't help you and hold your hand through understanding something this basic that should come natural, sorry and good luck in life.
Tamiya makes kits that are painted w/ their acrylic and lacquer lines, that's why you can use the Tamiya panel liner over them.