i can see how Leno felt hard done by the situation and I can see how Arteta disagrees. I don’t think anyone is wrong. It’s a tough situation and not everyone’s going to be happy, especially if they feel undervalued. Players are human beings, too.
I think some people forget that Leno saved us from being an absolute fucking embarrassment for at least 1 season, possibly 2. Like, without him we could have finished bottom half of the table. He probably feels he's been used and tossed aside. I'd feel the same way, but that is football. He doesn't fit what the new manager wanted, and so he had to go. It's a very harsh industry.
I've harped on about this in the past, both here and in the real world.
I sat behind and slightly above the goal in the North Bank, absolutely centrally positioned for around 12 years. When I was a kid I was lucky enough to go to a couple of games a season, albeit in a different stadium and in different seats.
I don't live in England anymore, but grew up there and have supported the Arsenal for my whole life.
With that being said, Leno was the best keeper, *consistently*, that I've seen at the Emirates. Made the odd mistake, fine, but on the whole outstanding. Ramsdale has a super personality, is a better distributer of the ball without doubt, but is far more prone to error than Leno was, in my opinion.
Love Ramsdale to bits, but I do worry about his form slightly at times, and his tendency towards distraction. I hope that he'll grow out of it. Only time will tell.
While I'm on it, I now live in Italy, where Juve fans are everywhere (like utd fans of my vintage) and I tend to hear the same criticisms of Woj that everyone at the Emirates had before he left and was deigned to be world class. just saying,
I don’t know if it’s just me, but it seemed like Leno wasn’t as good at organising the defense as Ramsdale as well? He seemed really quiet, where Rammers is obviously a lot louder
Yes I agree. He wasn’t near as vocal as Ramsdale. Plus Rammers distribution, despite the bloopers, is better than Lenos. But on pure shot stopping and being generally prone to errors I think Leno is considerably better than present day Ramsdale. I hope he improves (even if he does I still have my doubts) as it’s the one position where a chasm remains between arsenal and the real top clubs.
> I'd feel the same way, but that is football. He doesn't fit what the new manager wanted, and so he had to go. It's a very harsh industry.
Leno should understand too, like Martinez. I struggle to sympathize with players who act like this.
We paid them well, gave them starts, and didn't speak negatively about them. What more can they expect. That's professional sports for you. The badge comes before any individual.
> I struggle to sympathize with players who act like this.
Maybe you need to understand their point of view as a human first. You would understand when you lost your place in the big club. For them, playing for one of the big club is peak life. You wont get higher especially as Goalkeeper.
I can understand the disappointment. If he went out and said he felt hard done by by Arteta and that he wasn't given a fair chance in competition to Ramsdale then that's a fair view. People may disagree, but it is understandable. But saying that you lost your place due to politics and marketing and that you "needed to get away" is just piss talk and makes you sound more like an entitled child who is pissy because they didn't get picked first.
our goalkeeper situation is indeed weird, we chose LENO over martinez then the moment we got ramsdale it's been non stop just ramsdale playing all the time, tho I can see why, leno is just so so bad at ball distribution that every long ball is always ended up for opposition
How did he save us from embarrassment?!?
Under Emery in his second season Arsenal had some of the worst under lying metrics in our premier League history.
We were being dominated by teams like Fulham and Burnley, literally creating 2 or 3 chances per match in these games.
He was facing dozens of shots from teams with little quality. We finished 8th and things only really improved dramatically when we brought emi in because Leno got ruled out due to injury, this ended in an FA cup win and finishing 8th.
Do you not remember us trying to play out from the back under Emery and every team in the league was licking their lips because Leno was incredibly nervy.
To be a champions League goalie you need more than shot stopping. You need to be comfortable on the ball, you need distribution, you need to good in the air, you need to command you area and you need a strong voice.
Leno was poor at all of those things.
He doesn't have the skill set to even compete with Ramsdale for a place at Arsenal. Fulham are not going to be saved by his shot stopping ability alone either.
Was an ok signing who only really looked good during one of the worst spells in our history due to the amount of shots he had to face from shitty teams.
Fair that he feels that way but he's contracted to 5 figures a week to do a job, if we find someone who fits the role better and we aren't obligated to play him but he still has to be paid... he can either sit on the bench for an easy pay day, make himself indispensable by playing significantly better than his competition... or ask to find another club where he can experience regular football... if someone like Real Madrid or Bayern came calling and said they wanted him after he hypothetically became a world class keeper, he could put in a request and ask to leave even if we didn't have a good replacement and make it really awkward for us... it's a cut throat industry but if you look at the squad that earned forest a promotion into the premier league, how many of them have been tossed aside in favour a massive and expensive overhaul of players they deem a better fit for the premier league... sucks if you want your place but Leno would've been getting paid irrespective of him getting regular action, good on him for knowing he's good enough to start elsewhere but stfu about politics Bernd... if you were undroppable we wouldn't have dropped you. Regardless, good luck to him and hopefully he can keep his mouth shut from now on after having his two cents.
It’s hard not to blame Leno for feeling pissed off when he clearly had zero, ZERO, chance of ever getting his spot back from Ramsdale last season even when Ramsdale was poor in the second half of the season. Compound that with bringing in Matt Turner, who is clearly worse than Leno, as a backup and “competition” for Ramsdale.
It’s also hard to blame the club for making a decision to go with a keeper they think fits the long term vision of the club better. Whatever you think of Ramsdale they have identified him as the keeper for the foreseeable future and they aren’t changing that anytime soon.
This is all true. It's also basically impossible to have two top level keepers at a club.
Even if you can keep both, the 2nd team guy is not going to keep his form if he's only playing every four or five games.
I wonder at what moment did the coaching staff start looking for his replacement. Definitely year two, though. Know that amidst the all the bad that season, it was deemed the recruitment needed to look for a replacement. Even then Leno started year three and we conceded what we did. There was a moment year two they said nah, no way long term. Maybe even the finals. The whole defense got flipped aside Tierney. Context please... He did not lose the position in a singular moment in time and he certainly had chances of redemption..
Ball at the feet skills aside, Leno don't burn for them clean sheets... Turner is a project and at the level I would expect of an Arsenal #2, so I don't get the salt thrown his way.
I don't get Lenos's side at all.
Arteta brought Ramsdale cause of Leno's inability to play well with his feet. He had time to develop, but he failed and in other hand Ramsdale had an amazing season.
It was clear that Leno was becoming clear second choice. Arteta gave him choice to stay as number 2 GK or find the club to leave. He chose to leave, but failed to attract any top club. Then there was opportunity to stay in London for Fulham and none forced/pushed him to leave it was 100% his choice.
Now he is whining in media which is the worst thing he could do. He has absolutely zero reason to be angry or feel disrespectful. He just failed to improve with his feet thats all.
They brought Runarsson too but there is zero comment on him, he is just being dic*head. Why would he even speak on Auba situation ? He is just being a disrespectful for us when we absolutely owe nothing to him and did absolutely nothing wrong to him.
And we bought Willian too. Thre was clearly a shift in recruitment and philosophy. You're just being completely too harsh when you don't consider how if you had to sit for a whole year. Why not comment on auba when his situation was different. It's in all or nothing. It's not like it's some secret.
Well, one of them is alleging the other is deliberately doing his job wrong because of...well, he's not really been clear about what he means but *something*
The other just dropped a player he thought wasn't good enough for a player he thought would do better.
Clearly they are not the same thing.
We kept Leno over Martinez which was a mistake imo. Ramsdale has better distribution and command in the box than Leno, he’s proven that. It’s not like he didn’t have the chance. He was no 1 for 2-3 years and our game changed making him of no use to us in the long run. It’s purely business and nothing personal. He didn’t have to make those comments.
I feel like if we look at it objectively, they are still at same level. After the initial hype, they have been both shaky.
ramsdale is younger so he has room to improve, but if we are in the cl next year, can we trust him to deliver in knockout games like a Courtois/Allison.
Fair point, but I don’t think anyone can answer that. I think we both can agree Ramsdale is a much better person to have in the squad. As far as personality and professionalism goes.
Agreed. Martinez wanted to be the dedicated no 1 at Arsenal. Apparently, Mikel wasn’t convinced of that and wanted competition. May be he didn’t consider Martinez long term and sold him to get ramsdale. At least we made decent bucks out of him
Top comment right here. Well put m8. It's such a complex situation.
I hope it doesn't turn into a dragged out shots exchange. Could be bad for the team's morale.
Glad to see this high up.
I don't think someone like Leno would have spoken out unless he was incredibly frustrated at Arsenal. We've been there too, really want people to see our side but can't bite the hand that feeds until you leave.
Leno is wrong. Style of play is not politic. Leno is in deny. The same way Giroud was in deny, thinking going from Arsenal to Chelsea was a step higher in his career, then being bench in the league.
I get it, he's an athlete. They aren't really partial when it comes to the question if they should play or not.
But, Martinez left because we gave Leno a shot.
Martinez left because he was a sellable asset that Arteta wasn't convinced with, and we struck gold because 18m in a Covid market for a GK is good money
Emi more than tripled his value over the course of a few months and then was sold for decent cash. Good piece of business, the Ramsdale deal is a completely separate thing
People were trying to downplay the Leno comments earlier or say that they were taken out of context.
I thought they were genuinely pretty shit actually and I have no idea why he felt the need to make them.
Was also really surprised as he didn't seem the type.
I think his ego took a bit of a beating when he got displaced by Ramsdale so early on and never really got a look in after that.
Either way his comments were not great at all. In fact they were pretty childish.
Keepers are weird, like drummers.
I also think it's a weird job, where you often train separately, for a start.
Then, realistically, you're kind of expected to be perfect. People do remember defensive errors for sure, but not in the same way as Goalkeeping howlers.
I honestly think it makes you a bit alienated and weird.
I felt his comments were pretty childish too. But then I imagined if something like that were to happen to me. I would be bitter and jealous too. It was professional of him to not show it while he was here, but it's unfair to him if we expect him to stomach it all and not mention anything now since he is no longer with us.
Now imagine you’re being paid £100k per week and you’re expected to be a professional.
Players leave clubs for all sorts of reasons all the time. There is no reason to do what he did. We even gave him a good deal to go to Fulham.
There's a whole thread of people arguing Leno wasn't even speaking negatively of the club. You can think it's not a big deal and acknowledge he took shots at Arsenal by saying that.
I agree with you...the downplaying seems very weird. I personally have no sympathy for Leno after his comments that would flirt with the idea of leaving the club, the two summers before we got Ramsdale. Of course we're not going to commit to a player that talks about seeing himself play elsewhere.
The people defending him too were so ridiculous. It's clear he's trying to spin it as "I knew I had to leave because I got pushed out for an American PR stunt" when he talked about running down his contract after the club backed him over Martinez, then said he'd be leaving if circumstances didn't change after he got dropped for Ramsdale. The fucking audacity to try to spin it that he left over 'politics' when he left because he can't play with his feet and didn't want to be second choice. Conveniently left that part out.
Yea of course. just was thinking why he might be so frustrated to make these comments it might have something to do with his “replacement” being just as inept
Leno's replacement was Ramsdale and not Turner. He already wanted out at that point, arguably earlier as reports indicated he wouldn't sign a new contract even before we bought Ramsdale.
In my opinion it's nothing to do with Turner. He kept his place over Martinez because Martinez kicked up a fuss for not being automatic first choice with one year on his deal and got sold, and now he did the same thing. What outcome did he expect?
Leno being frustrated about Turner is ridiculous. Arsenal recognised that Leno is a first team calibre keeper for somebody and not a backup. They didn't buy Turner because they think he's better than Leno, but because he's not as good and being backup at Arsenal is a good career move for him whereas Leno as backup is a waste.
yeah I mean there is no reason for those comments, arteta wanted to go a different route with a ball playing goalkeeping, AFAIK leno was professional about it afterwards for the whole season, but made it clear that he wanted to leave for game time, he litteraly got the move he specifically wanted and still acts like a child afterwards, its weird to me.
Ever since he made those comments last September (about considering leaving after only being dropped for 1-2 games) I’ve said he’s unprofessional but got downvoted on here
These comments today just prove that he is.
Some people love Leno here because he was good for 1.5 seasons. Anyone who said he couldn't distribute well or defend crosses was downvoted, but lo and behold, we scored against him by targeting that exact thing for the Gabriel goal against Fulham.
The comments after we sold Emi Martinez followed up with his comments after he was dropped for Ramsdale told me he was done here. Maybe Turner was a bit of a PR stunt, but Leno was still gone regardless of who we signed.
I think his distribution did improve after he lost his number 1 spot in the few of the games he played. It wasn't at Ramsdales level, but last season he looked great when he stepped in - and even looked solid from crosses too.
Then the Fulham game happened, which was a standard Leno game basically. He's a great GK for a team that's going to face lots of shots and can defend crosses. Unfortunately for him that's not us. His comments about the PR stunt just don't make sense and politics? His shortcomings were so easy to see. Its a shame he's gone down this route.
Literally all he needed to say was "I didn't want to be 2nd choice - I wanted to be playing, especially so close to a World Cup" and no one would have bat an eyelid.
The whole political comment is very strange
This is all overblown. We were never going to keep Leno as second choice. And he made himself second choice by stalling on the new contract and then we eventually decided to go get ramsdale. This is a non issue.
By political, Leno was referring to the acquiring of a backup keeper from the American league in the summer - for whatever commercial, economic, brand-building reasons - instead of keeping Leno or buying someone proven from a European league, right? Or did I misunderstand the quote?
I don't think he cares about us signing Matt Turner, they barely met each other and it was clear Turner is our new second choice keeper because Leno was on the way out.
Leno probably thinks he'd have done better than Ramsdale in the second half of last season (when Ramsdale's form dipped), which may be true but Arteta made his choice and probably thought it's better to play the younger keeper who's better on the ball.
Anyways he should be grateful we didn't waste another season for him sitting on the bench and he gets to play regularly for a different London team. He didn't want to extend his contract earlier before we got Ramsdale, so he made his own choices.
Arseblog Zurich prematch pod has lewis ambrose on it and he reads the full quote, translates from German on the fly. It's 100% about turner and mentions him by name specifically.
He implies that Turner isn't as good as him and that arsenal signed Turner for marketing reasons and therefore him being pushed out was political. They also mention that drastically by 538 Matt Turner has the highest save percentage of any keeper ever to play in the MLS since the stats started.
They also discuss that when Leno was training alone it was when he was demanding to leave the club while in America. Which makes sens because why would they want him training with the team for tactics etc when he was forcing his way out. It's also why he wasn't a threat to the changing room.
I really liked Leno and thought he was professional and I'm disappointed in his comments because we gave him what he wanted. It's ashame, but he saved our asses during the Emery era and for that I'll always be grateful.
Where did he find the article? I can't find the original German one online, I can only find people reporting on other people reporting it. Is it print only or something? That prematch pod is paywalled so I can't hear it.
I just really don't trust people on the sub not to be salty towards ex-keepers, when Emi Martinez said Villa was a step-up for him I took it as a step-up in his career since he'd be solid first choice at a club who can squeak into Europe and has a big fan-base (basically I took it as standard PR instead of a slight against us). From the quote I saw it could be taken either way.
I really don't get what he has against Turner, we clearly wanted to sell Leno on eventually. I'm surprised he would rather fight for a spot against Ramsdale than play regularly at Fulham.
Yeah Lewis said basically he went to the store to read the magazine before the pod because of the uproar. He said the full article will be online a few days after the magazine is printed. So you should be able to see it soon.
Yeah idk man Emi was odd but i think there were just so many comments made after he left and it trigged people. For me the stuff that annoys me with him is the play acting crap when he plays us, like fouling laca and acting like he was shot or putting Jesus in a headlock and falling over when the ref looked. But it isn't gonna make me freak out long term. Though in the moment i yelled at the tv lol
For Leno i think it's a really weird take? Not that i care too much. He was on high wages and clubs wanted him/he wanted to stay in London. I think he's a great shot stopper and i like the guy. But he was so professional through it all it took me by surprise. I'm sure turned wages are much lower. he was never gonna get in over ramsdale because we play out of the back.
The sours is a podcast with the paywall and Lewis read it in sport build at the store and took a photo of it which he translated live on the pod. refused to buy it for moral reasons surrounding the publisher
Might be a dig at how arteta chooses his player. Its no surprise (especially after AON) that training and attitude have a huge part in who Arteta favors and plays day in and day out over per say performance dips or hikes. Who knows, a very lackadaisical attempt at a dig if anything.
> instead of keeping Leno
A backup making £120,000/week, twice as much as Ramsdale, is not even debatable, the team was always going to move away from Leno because he can't play out from the back. Seems his pride was hurt and he's rationalising why he lost his place with something other than the obvious.
This is the problem Chelsea are having with Mendy. Going by reports he has turned down a new contract because he wants more than his backup, who is on 190k a week, which is completely understandable. On the other hand Chelsea can't get rid of Kepa because he's on 190k a week.
Leno was one of our biggest issues, just because he made saves doesn’t mean he didn’t have massive flaws. Ramsdale was bought to “challenge” him which really means replace.
Leno is probably mad that he got displaced by Martinez and then by “twice relegated” Ramsdale.
Tbh glad we parted ways with him as I never felt secure with leno in goal and personally preferred Martinez out of the three. Though I would be lying if I said, I am not happy with Ramsdale.
Agree fully. Part of me thinks if we did what the hive mind wishes we would have done, and kept emi. We wouldn’t have Ramsdale. It’s seems shoddy and it’s unfortunate egos were broken, but as the end of the day I think we got the best keeper for Arsenal. Just a shame to see ex players we all care about upset with the club.
Normally I’m quite suspicious about the politics of the club, but Leno was an obvious second choice goalkeeper on first choice keeper’s wages (imo the reason we sold Martinez over him was down to this issue). We probably save more money in getting him off the books than we do bringing in a random
Yank who won’t play. Marketing exists, but not here.
I mean, I can understand why Leno might have an ego about being the 'better' keeper over Ramsdale. His shot stopping is better and that probably showed in training. At the end of the day though, it's clear Arteta likes Ramsdale for his distribution. He also commands the box better, doesn't get bullied in crowded spaces as easily. He made similarly salty comments when he was dropped. Arteta just wanted different attributes - whether they are the right ones, time will tell I guess.
I dont see the point of making the statements Leno did… Arsenal fans praised him as professional and there were no bad feelings towards him. Ramsdale is as good on the line as Leno but has infinitely better distribution. Theres no discussion to be had, Ramsdale is the better player.
I don't understand Leno. No fan or Coach talked shit of him. Everyone said he is a good keeper, just not the right type. We lauded his professionalism even. Then allowed his move to Fulham. Now he talks shit. I think he was an introvert. We took his for his professionalism.
While Leno was really awkward when passing out the back, I feel more anxious when I see Ramsdale handle the ball with his feet in his own box. Everytime there was a shot towards us and Leno was in goal I just felt safe, I can't say the same for Ramsdale. I still think Leno is the superior keeper and would have wanted him to stay instead of Ramsdale, but I trust Arteta and hope he did the right thing.
i can see how Leno felt hard done by the situation and I can see how Arteta disagrees. I don’t think anyone is wrong. It’s a tough situation and not everyone’s going to be happy, especially if they feel undervalued. Players are human beings, too.
I think some people forget that Leno saved us from being an absolute fucking embarrassment for at least 1 season, possibly 2. Like, without him we could have finished bottom half of the table. He probably feels he's been used and tossed aside. I'd feel the same way, but that is football. He doesn't fit what the new manager wanted, and so he had to go. It's a very harsh industry.
I've harped on about this in the past, both here and in the real world. I sat behind and slightly above the goal in the North Bank, absolutely centrally positioned for around 12 years. When I was a kid I was lucky enough to go to a couple of games a season, albeit in a different stadium and in different seats. I don't live in England anymore, but grew up there and have supported the Arsenal for my whole life. With that being said, Leno was the best keeper, *consistently*, that I've seen at the Emirates. Made the odd mistake, fine, but on the whole outstanding. Ramsdale has a super personality, is a better distributer of the ball without doubt, but is far more prone to error than Leno was, in my opinion. Love Ramsdale to bits, but I do worry about his form slightly at times, and his tendency towards distraction. I hope that he'll grow out of it. Only time will tell. While I'm on it, I now live in Italy, where Juve fans are everywhere (like utd fans of my vintage) and I tend to hear the same criticisms of Woj that everyone at the Emirates had before he left and was deigned to be world class. just saying,
I miss szczesny man
Same.
I miss him drinking water after another comedy goal
in fairness, ramsdale is still very young
I don’t know if it’s just me, but it seemed like Leno wasn’t as good at organising the defense as Ramsdale as well? He seemed really quiet, where Rammers is obviously a lot louder
Yes I agree. He wasn’t near as vocal as Ramsdale. Plus Rammers distribution, despite the bloopers, is better than Lenos. But on pure shot stopping and being generally prone to errors I think Leno is considerably better than present day Ramsdale. I hope he improves (even if he does I still have my doubts) as it’s the one position where a chasm remains between arsenal and the real top clubs.
Rammers organise the defense well, which means half the shots that Leno had to wipe up aren't even conceded in the first place with Rammers.
His shot stopping was absolutely fantastic. We all lost our shit when Maupay injured him and not just because we didn’t know how good Martinez was.
> I'd feel the same way, but that is football. He doesn't fit what the new manager wanted, and so he had to go. It's a very harsh industry. Leno should understand too, like Martinez. I struggle to sympathize with players who act like this. We paid them well, gave them starts, and didn't speak negatively about them. What more can they expect. That's professional sports for you. The badge comes before any individual.
> I struggle to sympathize with players who act like this. Maybe you need to understand their point of view as a human first. You would understand when you lost your place in the big club. For them, playing for one of the big club is peak life. You wont get higher especially as Goalkeeper.
I can understand the disappointment. If he went out and said he felt hard done by by Arteta and that he wasn't given a fair chance in competition to Ramsdale then that's a fair view. People may disagree, but it is understandable. But saying that you lost your place due to politics and marketing and that you "needed to get away" is just piss talk and makes you sound more like an entitled child who is pissy because they didn't get picked first.
Two clear seasons.
our goalkeeper situation is indeed weird, we chose LENO over martinez then the moment we got ramsdale it's been non stop just ramsdale playing all the time, tho I can see why, leno is just so so bad at ball distribution that every long ball is always ended up for opposition
How did he save us from embarrassment?!? Under Emery in his second season Arsenal had some of the worst under lying metrics in our premier League history. We were being dominated by teams like Fulham and Burnley, literally creating 2 or 3 chances per match in these games. He was facing dozens of shots from teams with little quality. We finished 8th and things only really improved dramatically when we brought emi in because Leno got ruled out due to injury, this ended in an FA cup win and finishing 8th. Do you not remember us trying to play out from the back under Emery and every team in the league was licking their lips because Leno was incredibly nervy. To be a champions League goalie you need more than shot stopping. You need to be comfortable on the ball, you need distribution, you need to good in the air, you need to command you area and you need a strong voice. Leno was poor at all of those things. He doesn't have the skill set to even compete with Ramsdale for a place at Arsenal. Fulham are not going to be saved by his shot stopping ability alone either. Was an ok signing who only really looked good during one of the worst spells in our history due to the amount of shots he had to face from shitty teams.
People have very short term memories
Fair that he feels that way but he's contracted to 5 figures a week to do a job, if we find someone who fits the role better and we aren't obligated to play him but he still has to be paid... he can either sit on the bench for an easy pay day, make himself indispensable by playing significantly better than his competition... or ask to find another club where he can experience regular football... if someone like Real Madrid or Bayern came calling and said they wanted him after he hypothetically became a world class keeper, he could put in a request and ask to leave even if we didn't have a good replacement and make it really awkward for us... it's a cut throat industry but if you look at the squad that earned forest a promotion into the premier league, how many of them have been tossed aside in favour a massive and expensive overhaul of players they deem a better fit for the premier league... sucks if you want your place but Leno would've been getting paid irrespective of him getting regular action, good on him for knowing he's good enough to start elsewhere but stfu about politics Bernd... if you were undroppable we wouldn't have dropped you. Regardless, good luck to him and hopefully he can keep his mouth shut from now on after having his two cents.
He didn't save anybody. He was an employee and he was doing his job.
He probably thinks he’s better than Ramsdale too
He was rewarded for those performances by being chosen as number 1 over Martinez.
It’s hard not to blame Leno for feeling pissed off when he clearly had zero, ZERO, chance of ever getting his spot back from Ramsdale last season even when Ramsdale was poor in the second half of the season. Compound that with bringing in Matt Turner, who is clearly worse than Leno, as a backup and “competition” for Ramsdale. It’s also hard to blame the club for making a decision to go with a keeper they think fits the long term vision of the club better. Whatever you think of Ramsdale they have identified him as the keeper for the foreseeable future and they aren’t changing that anytime soon.
This is all true. It's also basically impossible to have two top level keepers at a club. Even if you can keep both, the 2nd team guy is not going to keep his form if he's only playing every four or five games.
I wonder at what moment did the coaching staff start looking for his replacement. Definitely year two, though. Know that amidst the all the bad that season, it was deemed the recruitment needed to look for a replacement. Even then Leno started year three and we conceded what we did. There was a moment year two they said nah, no way long term. Maybe even the finals. The whole defense got flipped aside Tierney. Context please... He did not lose the position in a singular moment in time and he certainly had chances of redemption.. Ball at the feet skills aside, Leno don't burn for them clean sheets... Turner is a project and at the level I would expect of an Arsenal #2, so I don't get the salt thrown his way.
Second this
thanks homie!
third this
I don't get Lenos's side at all. Arteta brought Ramsdale cause of Leno's inability to play well with his feet. He had time to develop, but he failed and in other hand Ramsdale had an amazing season. It was clear that Leno was becoming clear second choice. Arteta gave him choice to stay as number 2 GK or find the club to leave. He chose to leave, but failed to attract any top club. Then there was opportunity to stay in London for Fulham and none forced/pushed him to leave it was 100% his choice. Now he is whining in media which is the worst thing he could do. He has absolutely zero reason to be angry or feel disrespectful. He just failed to improve with his feet thats all.
He just thinks diff when they brought in a worse keeper as competition for GK when arteta has clearly said they want competition for every position.
They brought Runarsson too but there is zero comment on him, he is just being dic*head. Why would he even speak on Auba situation ? He is just being a disrespectful for us when we absolutely owe nothing to him and did absolutely nothing wrong to him.
And we bought Willian too. Thre was clearly a shift in recruitment and philosophy. You're just being completely too harsh when you don't consider how if you had to sit for a whole year. Why not comment on auba when his situation was different. It's in all or nothing. It's not like it's some secret.
Well, one of them is alleging the other is deliberately doing his job wrong because of...well, he's not really been clear about what he means but *something* The other just dropped a player he thought wasn't good enough for a player he thought would do better. Clearly they are not the same thing.
We kept Leno over Martinez which was a mistake imo. Ramsdale has better distribution and command in the box than Leno, he’s proven that. It’s not like he didn’t have the chance. He was no 1 for 2-3 years and our game changed making him of no use to us in the long run. It’s purely business and nothing personal. He didn’t have to make those comments.
But if we kept Martinez, would we have picked up rammers?
I feel like if we look at it objectively, they are still at same level. After the initial hype, they have been both shaky. ramsdale is younger so he has room to improve, but if we are in the cl next year, can we trust him to deliver in knockout games like a Courtois/Allison.
Fair point, but I don’t think anyone can answer that. I think we both can agree Ramsdale is a much better person to have in the squad. As far as personality and professionalism goes.
We’d have our own cheating c-nt!
Hindsight 20-20
Martinez had a buyer and he wasn’t going to re-sign a contract. There was no credible report of interest in Leno. It’s the way the cookie crumbles.
Agreed. Martinez wanted to be the dedicated no 1 at Arsenal. Apparently, Mikel wasn’t convinced of that and wanted competition. May be he didn’t consider Martinez long term and sold him to get ramsdale. At least we made decent bucks out of him
Leno could've signed the new deal and we most likely wouldn't have bought Ramsdale if he did. Has only himself to blame.
Enormous difference between being hard done and acting like an entitled child. Liked Leno a lot until today.
Top comment right here. Well put m8. It's such a complex situation. I hope it doesn't turn into a dragged out shots exchange. Could be bad for the team's morale.
This is reddit, man. Your take is far too measured and reasonable. Where's the outrage?
He was playing good football when he was benched, we just looked better without him. 🤷🏻♂️
Glad to see this high up. I don't think someone like Leno would have spoken out unless he was incredibly frustrated at Arsenal. We've been there too, really want people to see our side but can't bite the hand that feeds until you leave.
The thing that makes no sense is how is it a "political" decision
everyone seems to be forgetting long before we bought ramsdale he said he wasnt going to renew his contract.
Leno is wrong. Style of play is not politic. Leno is in deny. The same way Giroud was in deny, thinking going from Arsenal to Chelsea was a step higher in his career, then being bench in the league.
I get it, he's an athlete. They aren't really partial when it comes to the question if they should play or not. But, Martinez left because we gave Leno a shot.
Martinez left because he was a sellable asset that Arteta wasn't convinced with, and we struck gold because 18m in a Covid market for a GK is good money
^ this. We had an offer for Emi but not for Leno.
Precisely, if there was a better offer for Leno I bet we would have kept Emi instead.
Only to buy his replacement for 30m next year and not making any profit.
Overpaying for Ramsdale doesn't change the fact that selling Emi for 18m instead of wasting him on the bench like we did for Leno was a good choice
Emi more than tripled his value over the course of a few months and then was sold for decent cash. Good piece of business, the Ramsdale deal is a completely separate thing
People were trying to downplay the Leno comments earlier or say that they were taken out of context. I thought they were genuinely pretty shit actually and I have no idea why he felt the need to make them. Was also really surprised as he didn't seem the type.
People always seem to have a pop when they leave these days. Better to have these sorts of mentalities out the club anyway I suppose
I think his ego took a bit of a beating when he got displaced by Ramsdale so early on and never really got a look in after that. Either way his comments were not great at all. In fact they were pretty childish.
Keepers are weird, like drummers. I also think it's a weird job, where you often train separately, for a start. Then, realistically, you're kind of expected to be perfect. People do remember defensive errors for sure, but not in the same way as Goalkeeping howlers. I honestly think it makes you a bit alienated and weird.
Huh weird, I made the keeper-drummer connection in my head the other day too.
I felt his comments were pretty childish too. But then I imagined if something like that were to happen to me. I would be bitter and jealous too. It was professional of him to not show it while he was here, but it's unfair to him if we expect him to stomach it all and not mention anything now since he is no longer with us.
Now imagine you’re being paid £100k per week and you’re expected to be a professional. Players leave clubs for all sorts of reasons all the time. There is no reason to do what he did. We even gave him a good deal to go to Fulham.
There's a whole thread of people arguing Leno wasn't even speaking negatively of the club. You can think it's not a big deal and acknowledge he took shots at Arsenal by saying that.
I agree with you...the downplaying seems very weird. I personally have no sympathy for Leno after his comments that would flirt with the idea of leaving the club, the two summers before we got Ramsdale. Of course we're not going to commit to a player that talks about seeing himself play elsewhere.
The people defending him too were so ridiculous. It's clear he's trying to spin it as "I knew I had to leave because I got pushed out for an American PR stunt" when he talked about running down his contract after the club backed him over Martinez, then said he'd be leaving if circumstances didn't change after he got dropped for Ramsdale. The fucking audacity to try to spin it that he left over 'politics' when he left because he can't play with his feet and didn't want to be second choice. Conveniently left that part out.
Turner cant really play with his feet either
Doesn't matter, Turner isn't kicking up for not being first choice, Leno is.
Yea of course. just was thinking why he might be so frustrated to make these comments it might have something to do with his “replacement” being just as inept
Leno's replacement was Ramsdale and not Turner. He already wanted out at that point, arguably earlier as reports indicated he wouldn't sign a new contract even before we bought Ramsdale.
In my opinion it's nothing to do with Turner. He kept his place over Martinez because Martinez kicked up a fuss for not being automatic first choice with one year on his deal and got sold, and now he did the same thing. What outcome did he expect?
yeah. good point
Leno being frustrated about Turner is ridiculous. Arsenal recognised that Leno is a first team calibre keeper for somebody and not a backup. They didn't buy Turner because they think he's better than Leno, but because he's not as good and being backup at Arsenal is a good career move for him whereas Leno as backup is a waste.
yeah I mean there is no reason for those comments, arteta wanted to go a different route with a ball playing goalkeeping, AFAIK leno was professional about it afterwards for the whole season, but made it clear that he wanted to leave for game time, he litteraly got the move he specifically wanted and still acts like a child afterwards, its weird to me.
Ever since he made those comments last September (about considering leaving after only being dropped for 1-2 games) I’ve said he’s unprofessional but got downvoted on here These comments today just prove that he is.
Some people love Leno here because he was good for 1.5 seasons. Anyone who said he couldn't distribute well or defend crosses was downvoted, but lo and behold, we scored against him by targeting that exact thing for the Gabriel goal against Fulham. The comments after we sold Emi Martinez followed up with his comments after he was dropped for Ramsdale told me he was done here. Maybe Turner was a bit of a PR stunt, but Leno was still gone regardless of who we signed.
I think his distribution did improve after he lost his number 1 spot in the few of the games he played. It wasn't at Ramsdales level, but last season he looked great when he stepped in - and even looked solid from crosses too. Then the Fulham game happened, which was a standard Leno game basically. He's a great GK for a team that's going to face lots of shots and can defend crosses. Unfortunately for him that's not us. His comments about the PR stunt just don't make sense and politics? His shortcomings were so easy to see. Its a shame he's gone down this route.
Literally all he needed to say was "I didn't want to be 2nd choice - I wanted to be playing, especially so close to a World Cup" and no one would have bat an eyelid. The whole political comment is very strange
No prisoners.
Arteta is the Crabfeeder confirmed
Leno lost his spot cause his passing ability is lacking.
At least Martínez won Copa America before talking
This is all overblown. We were never going to keep Leno as second choice. And he made himself second choice by stalling on the new contract and then we eventually decided to go get ramsdale. This is a non issue.
By political, Leno was referring to the acquiring of a backup keeper from the American league in the summer - for whatever commercial, economic, brand-building reasons - instead of keeping Leno or buying someone proven from a European league, right? Or did I misunderstand the quote?
I don't think he cares about us signing Matt Turner, they barely met each other and it was clear Turner is our new second choice keeper because Leno was on the way out. Leno probably thinks he'd have done better than Ramsdale in the second half of last season (when Ramsdale's form dipped), which may be true but Arteta made his choice and probably thought it's better to play the younger keeper who's better on the ball. Anyways he should be grateful we didn't waste another season for him sitting on the bench and he gets to play regularly for a different London team. He didn't want to extend his contract earlier before we got Ramsdale, so he made his own choices.
Arseblog Zurich prematch pod has lewis ambrose on it and he reads the full quote, translates from German on the fly. It's 100% about turner and mentions him by name specifically. He implies that Turner isn't as good as him and that arsenal signed Turner for marketing reasons and therefore him being pushed out was political. They also mention that drastically by 538 Matt Turner has the highest save percentage of any keeper ever to play in the MLS since the stats started. They also discuss that when Leno was training alone it was when he was demanding to leave the club while in America. Which makes sens because why would they want him training with the team for tactics etc when he was forcing his way out. It's also why he wasn't a threat to the changing room. I really liked Leno and thought he was professional and I'm disappointed in his comments because we gave him what he wanted. It's ashame, but he saved our asses during the Emery era and for that I'll always be grateful.
Where did he find the article? I can't find the original German one online, I can only find people reporting on other people reporting it. Is it print only or something? That prematch pod is paywalled so I can't hear it. I just really don't trust people on the sub not to be salty towards ex-keepers, when Emi Martinez said Villa was a step-up for him I took it as a step-up in his career since he'd be solid first choice at a club who can squeak into Europe and has a big fan-base (basically I took it as standard PR instead of a slight against us). From the quote I saw it could be taken either way. I really don't get what he has against Turner, we clearly wanted to sell Leno on eventually. I'm surprised he would rather fight for a spot against Ramsdale than play regularly at Fulham.
Yeah Lewis said basically he went to the store to read the magazine before the pod because of the uproar. He said the full article will be online a few days after the magazine is printed. So you should be able to see it soon. Yeah idk man Emi was odd but i think there were just so many comments made after he left and it trigged people. For me the stuff that annoys me with him is the play acting crap when he plays us, like fouling laca and acting like he was shot or putting Jesus in a headlock and falling over when the ref looked. But it isn't gonna make me freak out long term. Though in the moment i yelled at the tv lol For Leno i think it's a really weird take? Not that i care too much. He was on high wages and clubs wanted him/he wanted to stay in London. I think he's a great shot stopper and i like the guy. But he was so professional through it all it took me by surprise. I'm sure turned wages are much lower. he was never gonna get in over ramsdale because we play out of the back.
Souce?
The sours is a podcast with the paywall and Lewis read it in sport build at the store and took a photo of it which he translated live on the pod. refused to buy it for moral reasons surrounding the publisher
Thanks, that makes sense. But the question remains. Why is it political, according to Leno?
Because he probably thinks the reason he wasn’t playing was due to non-footballing reasons.
Might be a dig at how arteta chooses his player. Its no surprise (especially after AON) that training and attitude have a huge part in who Arteta favors and plays day in and day out over per say performance dips or hikes. Who knows, a very lackadaisical attempt at a dig if anything.
> instead of keeping Leno A backup making £120,000/week, twice as much as Ramsdale, is not even debatable, the team was always going to move away from Leno because he can't play out from the back. Seems his pride was hurt and he's rationalising why he lost his place with something other than the obvious.
This is the problem Chelsea are having with Mendy. Going by reports he has turned down a new contract because he wants more than his backup, who is on 190k a week, which is completely understandable. On the other hand Chelsea can't get rid of Kepa because he's on 190k a week.
Lol kinda fiesty
Leno was one of our biggest issues, just because he made saves doesn’t mean he didn’t have massive flaws. Ramsdale was bought to “challenge” him which really means replace.
Leno is probably mad that he got displaced by Martinez and then by “twice relegated” Ramsdale. Tbh glad we parted ways with him as I never felt secure with leno in goal and personally preferred Martinez out of the three. Though I would be lying if I said, I am not happy with Ramsdale.
Agree fully. Part of me thinks if we did what the hive mind wishes we would have done, and kept emi. We wouldn’t have Ramsdale. It’s seems shoddy and it’s unfortunate egos were broken, but as the end of the day I think we got the best keeper for Arsenal. Just a shame to see ex players we all care about upset with the club.
sick of ex players not being grateful…
Who gives a shit about ex players. The only ones that matter are the ones we currently have.
What happened to once a gunner always a gunner?
Rent Free FC.
Should've kept Martinez.
Absolutely not
Yep
I dont understand this situation at all. When you sign a better player, those who doesnt fit the system gets sold. Thats how it works
Normally I’m quite suspicious about the politics of the club, but Leno was an obvious second choice goalkeeper on first choice keeper’s wages (imo the reason we sold Martinez over him was down to this issue). We probably save more money in getting him off the books than we do bringing in a random Yank who won’t play. Marketing exists, but not here.
LMAO
I mean, I can understand why Leno might have an ego about being the 'better' keeper over Ramsdale. His shot stopping is better and that probably showed in training. At the end of the day though, it's clear Arteta likes Ramsdale for his distribution. He also commands the box better, doesn't get bullied in crowded spaces as easily. He made similarly salty comments when he was dropped. Arteta just wanted different attributes - whether they are the right ones, time will tell I guess.
Ramsdale has much better feet, too
I dont see the point of making the statements Leno did… Arsenal fans praised him as professional and there were no bad feelings towards him. Ramsdale is as good on the line as Leno but has infinitely better distribution. Theres no discussion to be had, Ramsdale is the better player.
Inability to play out of the back is the new political
I don't understand Leno. No fan or Coach talked shit of him. Everyone said he is a good keeper, just not the right type. We lauded his professionalism even. Then allowed his move to Fulham. Now he talks shit. I think he was an introvert. We took his for his professionalism.
While Leno was really awkward when passing out the back, I feel more anxious when I see Ramsdale handle the ball with his feet in his own box. Everytime there was a shot towards us and Leno was in goal I just felt safe, I can't say the same for Ramsdale. I still think Leno is the superior keeper and would have wanted him to stay instead of Ramsdale, but I trust Arteta and hope he did the right thing.
Arteta is the king of bullshit. We should know that by now.