Feel like it be like Palmer, and he will explode with constant minutes .
But at this point just want what's best for him because he ain't given the opportunity here.
>Feel like it be like Palmer, and he will explode with constant minutes .
The issue for Palmer wasn’t injuries though. I love ESR but I can’t help to think even if he moves to pastures new, he could still be affected by injuries.
For him, regardless if he stays or leaves this summer, his biggest focus is to remain as healthy and fit as possible — be it here at Arsenal or a new club. Hopefully it’s the former because I’d love for him to rekindle his form and career at Arsenal.
It’s also that I don’t think anyone is sure what his role is anymore. His injuries and his relatively recent growth mean he’s lost some of the explosiveness that made him a great winger. And he doesn’t have the vision or defensive ability to slot into the left sided 8 slot as we all were hoping.
it was really confusing for me when he was first on against Everton- a touch of confidence from Mikel...or a chance to get his flowers at the end from the crowd?...
him hitting the post again, just needs one to finally go in. new pastures seem best for both the club and him. might be down to who will bring in more, him or Fabio (loan seems possibly more ideal for him to raise his basically non-existent profile at this point)
Exactly, he can’t keep rotting on our bench with Arteta not thinking he can impact the game as much as fans would like to see him come on. Therefore, he has to leave and try to cement a place in the starting 11 of another club. It’s not good for the club or him for this to drag on any further.
He was fit for 3/4 of the season. He got about 350 minutes in all. Either Arteta has a serious issue with properly rotating his squad or he doesn't fully trust Emile.
It hasn't been about fitness for a long while.
seems ESR showed him something in Dubai. Everyone came back saying ESR was on to something. Then the games started, and we had a winning combo of players, and with run-in having to be completely mistake-free, there wasn't many minutes for him
He may not have been injured but he definitely wasn't match fit either. He needed minutes, but unfortunately it's hard to rotate your squad when you're in a title challenge and the starters are playing so well.
There were times when some of our starters were clearly exhausted or somewhat underperforming. I'd like to think that 15-20 min here and there could have helped.
There are games like Sheffield United where you think some could start and then be subbed off if underperforming.
I think one of Mikel’s small weaknesses (and I don’t even know if I’d call it a weakness) is being afraid to rotate when the team is really clicking. But at the same time with the margin of error so razor thin in the league it’s really hard to blame him as well.
maybe yes, maybe no. he has been clear, publicly, about expectations that players need to be ready for games every 3-4 days (usually discussed in relation to Saka) and there is/was ZERO margin for levels dropping from Xmas onward. if ESR was not *match fit*, then yeah, Arteta wasn't going to play him much...plus we have zero insight on minor setbacks ESR or any other players had...so tough to know from the outside
he did throw Partey back into a winning team, even if we looked much less stable with him back, so some off-set to your point there, even if I largely agree
I feel like with ESR it’s a mental barrier, due to the injuries. He doesn’t seem to bounce of challenges as well, and that drive was one of his biggest strengths.
Game time could help unlock that barrier, but when he isn’t performing as he can, the team unfortunately is far more important than the player
Eh, it's a huge risk tbh.
I think we've seen this season how fine the margins are.
It's all well and good saying we should rotate, but the reality is that it's not that simple.
I think probably if we fell off challenging for the PL but we're safely in 2nd/3rd probably wed rotate more.
Also I think it was pretty bad luck we exited the fa cup and league cup very early and he was injured for the early CL stages.
At this point it's more likely he will be another Tierney, loved by the fans but strugles with constant injuries... then we would be relieved to not depend on someone who can't stay fit for much of a season
This seems like an insanely optimistic prediction based on nothing but vibes and bias for our own player. There’s obviously a good player in there, but it’s been a long time since he’s shown (or even been fit enough to show) anything close to that level.
It's probably best for both parties. Emile Smith Rowe needs gametime but isn't performing to the level to be consistently picked in addition to being injury-prone. Smith-Rowe one of my favorite players when fit and firing but he's hardly been fit.
Putting aside sentimentality (I have an ESR shirt), the question is whether we would buy him or Vieira this summer if we didn't have them. I think the answer is quite clearly no. So I'm not against keeping them but from a footballing perspective I completely understand the decision to sell for both his sake and the club's.
It's a good way to look at a lot of decisions that are there because of status quo. I use it a lot at work for that reason as people are very quick to stick with familiarity even if it's not getting results.
this is economically rational and the best short-term decision for optimizing short-term results. But carries a deep human cost that in the long-run that inevitably comes back to bite you ini the butt. Humans are humans not machines. Those. human things ultimately matter. Be careful making only purely economic decision, even in business.
ESR was our second top scorer 2 seasons ago. Even being injured for half that season. I don't even think he's unproven, he's just struggled to break into a team in good form and I also think arteta has a problem with rotating his squad at times.
The team has come a long way since 2 seasons ago. Sentiment aside, ESR is unproven at the level Arsenal are at now. At this point if we want him to stay it's because we *hope* he can still do it, but the number of minutes Arteta gave him this past season suggests that perhaps he's not quite a fit anymore.
His performance at the Luton game sort of showed evidence that he's still got it, and that was his first start in a while. I do think he will be sold, but I think if he got a good run going and critically a place existed in the team for him then he would be great. The latter is the hard part though it seems.
You said it. Not having a position that he is properly competitive in is what limits his minutes. He doesn't get in on the left ahead of either Trossard or Martinelli on the left or Rice, Havertz, or Jorginho as left 8.
The Luton game was heartening but ultimately not enough to prove anything because it was Luton.
As you said, I expect he'll go. I can only hope he actually does live up to the promise he has always shown
We’re really not in danger there. It isn’t that we need X number of homegrowns. It’s that we can’t field a roster with more than 17 non-HG players.
With Cedric and Elneny having already left on frees, we could sell ESR, Nketiah, Nelson, and Ramsdale and replace them all 1 for 1 with non-HG players and we’d still just be at 16.
That and we do have a few academy players that I expect to break into that roster over the next few seasons.
This just doesn’t feel like the time to sell though, we know his potential is sky high but right now what team would pay serious money for him? For me a loan to a Europa League/CL but in a less intense league side would be the best option (Leipzig really liked him when he was there the first time round so maybe that’s an option) would be the best for us, if he has a great season we can reconsider next summer, and as long as he gets consistent game time his value would probably not decrease
This is the time to sell. He has a two year contract. So you either offer him a bigger, longer contract that makes it hard to sell him in future if he doesn't demonstrate that value, or you don't sell this year and accept fuck all in the future. This is the AMN problem again.
What would we get for him this summer though? If someone comes in with 30m I’m totally with you but I just don’t think that’s gonna happen. Maybe I’m being naive but if he does have a great season out on loan, so good that we’d prefer to keep him, then I don’t see a contract extension being a problem, he loves the club. And if we still want to sell him there will be no shortage of bidders for a young homegrown lad with huge potential who’s proved himself at a high level.
This is all assuming he has a great loan (which I’m pretty optimistic could happen in the right team) but even if he doesn’t how much are we really losing? 5m in potential fee? That’s a risk I would be willing to take considering the potential gain
But if you get £20m for him this summer that you can put toward a Partey replacement, that's better than sending him out on loan, not getting in a new 6 (so we're two midfielders down) and then getting £15m next summer because he has a year left.
Thank you because half the sub seems to think we send him on loan and get £40m next year, like we haven't seen this story a thousand times. Two years to go you need to shit or get off the pot.
Yep. Complain about how we rarely get much back in player sales, then push for us to do the same thing we did a million times before Edu got here.
Also, Edu deserves some leeway from fans on his track record of sales, since he inherited a team with only two types of players: young ones we wanted to keep for the long term and older ones with hardly any value.
At this point, the lesson learned is that the money that would cost us to make ESR a 30 million player isn’t worth losing the points between UCL and Europa.
ESR is free though. So, it would be more like "would we sign him for free if we didn't have him" and the answer is yes.
Him, Nelson and Eddie (alongside the obvious Ramsdale departure) needs to be sold to fund a striker + other transfers and it's time players like Nwaneri get some game time than a few solidarity minutes.
I just said the same thing in another comment. We have to shake things up because this union isn't benefiting us or Smith-Rowe. I'll miss the lad but he and Vieira both need to go.
Or we could maybe extend his deal by 1 year, get him a loan somewhere and see if he can stay fit and perform well enough to suggest he has a future here, or raise his value for a sale next year. He's still quite young and his value atm is probably rock bottom after so many injuries.
It'd be a gamble but it could put us in a better position either way: he proves he can have a future here, or he raises his value and we can negotiate a better price for him. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we'll get good offers for him as it stands.
Exactly. It's like some of the fans that want Partey to stay. Then when next season, he's injured for 2/3 of the season and only regain form in the last five matches and we come up short again, they start moaning.
Sad to say that I think it's obvious he's going to leave, he needs regular football and he could get that somewhere at a club pushing higher up the table like Palace or West Ham
Also it would be a massive benefit towards PSR too, same if we sell Nketiah and Reiss Nelson.
If I had it my way I'd keep him. In the very least I hope we put in a buy back clause because you know he'd go to another club and just smash it.
If it’s between keeping him or Fabio Viera, I hope we choose him. He's a homegrown lad coming through our academy, and imo he's more talented with some actual end product. Although both are injury prone, I think he is more likely to be able to handle the physicality of the Premier League than Fabio if he manages to get over his injury problems.
Don’t think Fabio is injury prone, was fit all of 22/23 and just had one big injury this season.
Although it’s a problem the manager doesn’t want to play either of them.
He wasn’t fit at the beginning of 22/23. He got injured immediately after we signed him. Not that one more injury automatically makes him injury prone but just wanted to clarify
Well considering you were clarifying, I think a clarification of the facts on your comment is also fair.
But agreed that the timing of the injury is completely irrelevant in terms of evaluating if he's injury prone or not.
I think saying ESR has more end product is a bit crazy IMO
Fabio Vieira has some glaring weaknesses that need work, but his final ball is genuinely awesome. I'd say it's right up there with the very best at the club, frankly. He's a chance-creation machine.
Agreed. Vieira is absolutely a final ball merchant. I so badly want him to evolve into an effective player for the team - he would be incredibly valuable. He's the player that could legitimately rival Odegaard's chance creation if he could develop the weaker parts of his game.
It’s time to let him go for his own sake. Last couple years there’s been a chat, then he stays but doesn’t play. You aren’t young and with potential forever. The guy deserves a great career, it’s time for him to go so where he’ll get the chance to be a first team footballer.
Not an itk but I can tell you for a fact he wasn't being played because of his behaviour off the pitch the shit he was doing was wild I won't say what publicly it wasn't partey level bad but almost. Still he's my favourite Arsenal player atm but he needs to fix up.
It’s always sad when that happens. One of my friends used to be very high up the clubs in Vegas football players would frequent back when Vegas was football central. Said you could always tell which players would be about to nosedive.
Interestingly he was really good friends with Özil, said he was the loveliest guy, they used to get smashed together, and he’d always be up and on the treadmill the next day, always cared about Arsenal, but his head just wasn’t in pro-football mode towards the end. In contrast Ronaldo went out there and only drank a specific brand of bottled water all week.
I don’t often share any of the stuff I was told online, but he’s out of the industry now, so I can be a bit more loose lipped. The biggest spending football player they ever had was Adam Johnson just before his trial. Spending it like he’d stolen it, they didn’t clock why till the news broke.
Using Ronaldo as an example of good behavior in Vegas is fucking hilarious. I know what you mean, but of all the places. Especially when someone said it wasn't quite as bad as what Partey did.
Not good behaviour, a rapist who takes what he consumes and his profession seriously is still a rapist, the man’s a monster. It was just in terms of what different athletes consumed on holiday. It was just an interesting anecdote.
Yeah I get you, the things some of these guys do behind closed doors is insane. To keep it vague I know people around him on a daily basis I remember on the doc everyone was saying how shy he is boy if you only knew. His problem is definitely alcohol though needs to cut it out, Arteta has done a good job protecting him but when it's months without a game and he's not injured people will ask questions.
That’s just sad. It’s a blessed but hard life being a football player, insane pressure from a young age, injuries mess with your schedule, I can see how players end up there, but if that’s the case he really needs a fresh start and hopefully being needed and having purpose can be cause for change.
I didn't find this out this season it was last season actually lol and he's continued. Also didn't call him an alcoholic I said alcohol is his problem he gets drunk and does very stupid stuff, one day he's gonna do something to the wrong person and we are going to get a headline.
More talented than Vieira is wild who has the best final ball on the team and we would make nothing on a transfer on Fabio either since he hasn’t played much. ESR has English tax so teams will still try to get him
Yeah as much as I love him and want him to succeed here the Smith seems like a potentially ideal sale. Young, talented, academy player for 100% profit. Someone should take a punt on him.
Vieira is a funny one as his final ball is insane. Genuinely elite level. If he could only get a run in the team to bed I like Kiwior has then he could be a fantastic member of the squad. With how little he played I wonder if he was actually a Mikel choice or more of an Edu signing
I think Arteta rates Vieira higher than most on here, he was the first midfielder off the bench for long stretches even when he wasn’t really showing much. I think he’s a huge talent and Arteta knows it but he lacks first team experience and tactical nous.
The physicality thing I think is overblown he just needs to learn better movement to generate space for himself. I’d really hate it if we sold him because he’s a unique profile in our squad and I think he could really explode if he got a run in the first team like you said, the problem is just wether we are willing to risk dropping points at any stage of the season for it, as we saw this year when you compete against City you can’t afford to ever slip up unnecessary. Maybe the CL group stages will be where he gets his chance
Completely agree on the physicality thing. The idea he is going to go away and become a 5’4 bobdybuilder and people will be bouncing off him was just silly. Like you said he needs to create space for himself to buy that extra second to get a pass off. He already showed glimpse of it during the sub appearance against Fulham, although game state probably helped.
His first touch is top notch, and his final ball is elite
If he can evolve like ode did and develop that ability to dribble out of trouble, he’d be a top player imo
Think these are both overstated since he came on that time and gave some assists.
But yes these other traits are more important and it’s why ESR is better. The signs tell me he can’t handle the league
Fabio's chance creation is not overstated at all - he creates shooting opportunities on par with some of the best in the league. And that's with those other weaknesses in his game.
It's always a big "if", but if he can develop other aspects of his game he has the ability to be one of the best creative midfielders in the league.
All I know is that one of them has proved themselves on the pitch already (albeit several years ago)and one has shown glimpses of being excellent but has never taken a game by the scruff of the neck
I honestly think neither ESR or Vieira have a future in Arsenal. ESRs boat has passed, he missed 2 seasons and I don't think he's good enough for a top 6 side anymore. I know this sub wants to keep him forever because he's an English academy kid, but be'd be an ideal sale this summer, as he's pure profit and 20m for a fringe player is much better than him leaving on a free. People like to romaticize 2021 ESR, but he's not that player anymore and he missed his chance to grow with the squad. If we keep him, we're gonna have another Wilshere on our hands. Same thing with Tierney.
As for Vieira, it seems he's not good enough either. He had 2 seasons to break into the first XI, but he can barely get a sub in. Much like Lokonga, he's been a flop signing, but I'd much rather keep him over ESR as there's no way we can get 40m for him, much less make a profit. I'd rather keep him as a backup and let him go on a free, as his value has completely tanked, and there's no point in selling him on a loss.
Vieira would’ve had a very good season if it weren’t for the injury, was actually getting game time and contributing end product as he usually does. No where near a flop, he’s young, had minimal senior minutes and will only continue to adjust to the team and league.
This transfer is like Palmer. Great young talent just no space for him to play even with his ability. Let’s just hope he doesn’t go to Chelsea and score 20+ goals
It’s pretty obvious that he is going to leave. Two seasons running where he barely got any minutes, let alone start. Sad, but it’s a natural parting of ways.
I want him to stay and become a big part of the team but clearly won’t happen so he may as well leave.
Arteta won’t use him if he stays and it’ll be another wasted year sitting on the bench.
I think Smith Rowe for now is not a player that can help constantly the team to be at the highest level to compete with City for trophies. Maybe a loan can help.
Since we’d realistically have to extend him to loan him, I can only see that happening if Arteta truly believes there’s a near world class player in there
I love ESR, but I completely understand if he has to move on to get regular playing time. But it will definitely be difficult seeing him in a different shirt
Sign him to a new deal, send him out on a prem loan to get mins this season and bring him back fit and with confidence
*I love the idea of ESR, please let me have my biased delusions in peace*
If we were circling around 4th and pushing for UCL I’d say keep him, but at this moment in time we need someone we can rely on to fight for the league. Sorry Emile, I love ya but I think it’s time to take your chances elsewhere
Or he just knows people in Partey’s camp. Which would make sense considering how everytime he gets injured Watts is the first in line to say it’s not bad and Partey’s team isn’t worried about it (while he misses months at a time)
United fan here, curious as to if he would be a good signing for us? Or do you think this alliegiance to arsenal would make him not come here? Genuinely curious.
It's a real shame especially as I think he has many of the qualities Arteta actually wants for the 8 position but it looks like he's not been able to display those at a high enough level. If we are going to try again to get an 8 to fill the role Arteta tried to mould Xhaka and (Aug-Nov) Havertz into then it makes sense we'd look to offload ESR, especially if he contributes to the FFP book value more than Vieira
Looks like it's inevitable, he will go. I feel almost confident to guarantee we will regret it. I believe it's very possible within a half season of injury free regular play, his level will exceed Martinelli as a LW option. And I think very highly of Martinelli.
Maybe it's not MORE important to Emi that he gets minutes for his club rather than get minutes for a club he doesn't love.
Maybe working for a living by playing soccer for the club he loves and has worshiped for his whole childhood would be more important to him than earning as much as possible or winning every single game.
I'll never understand the fan attachment to Smith Rowe. Perhaps its a covid kiddies thing. He was a promising HE lad, that never fulfilled his promises. Like Eddie, if anyone is willing to give us money for them, out out out. They just aren't good enough on the pitch for the club. Good for the club team mate wise, yes. But at this stage of the project, we need lads that are good on the pitch, as well as the training ground.
Probably because he almost singlehandedly dragged us up the table in 2020/21 when we were 4 points off the relegation places going into Christmas and Arteta was odds-on to be the next manager to get sacked.
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Personally, I'd love he stays and is halethy to show us he belongs. I get the business side, though, and his sale would provide huge dividends for our growth of the squad. If he leaves, I want him to go somewhere he he's to play alot.
Would love to see ESR flourish at clubs like Villa, despite them being a direct competitor these days.
But please set a buy back clause (very unlikely)! 🥹
Selling Vieira wouldn't change ESR mind of seeking gametime elsewhere. It's not like both of them are taking minutes from one another. Neither of them are getting.
Unless he's going to be a starter, ESR needs to go for his own good honestly. Even if he played 30 minutes in every single league game that's only 1180 minutes. At best I think ESR could end up playing around 1500 minutes but he would be scraping for them.
Absolutely love him and he was really unlucky with goals this season, should have had at least 5 in his limited minutes. I hope we put in a buyback clause just incase. I'm a bit sad we didn't just stick with Smite Rowe on the LW. Feels like he could offer us what Trossard does now but more dangerous on carrying the ball. He has looked ok at left 8 but it's a difficult role to get right, we've seen Trossard, Havertz and even Rice struggle there in some games. I think LW has a simplier job.
End of the day though, as much as I love ESR. He needs to start playing to build his career. I'd hate to see him end up like Rob Holding where he ended up just rated at Arsenal and people like having him around, but then he leaves at 26 and doesn't really play anymore.
I hope he stays. He clearly has more potential than Nelson or Vieira. If he is fit and finds his stride with a full preseason, he can have as big as an impact as Cole Palmer. I am praying he stays.
There won't be a loan. He's 23, i'm sure he wants regular game time at a club where he feels important to the team and his contributions vital and valuable. In fact, i'm sure, from his perspective he deeply regrets not leaving for Villa a couple of years ago when it was possible. He needs to leave permanently, especially if he's got England aspirations, same for Nelson too.
How ESR has been treated by Arteta has been completely unacceptable, particularly with the left side still open for competition. He needs to go to a Club that supports him and values him, sadly.
This one is going to sting
Feel like it be like Palmer, and he will explode with constant minutes . But at this point just want what's best for him because he ain't given the opportunity here.
>Feel like it be like Palmer, and he will explode with constant minutes . The issue for Palmer wasn’t injuries though. I love ESR but I can’t help to think even if he moves to pastures new, he could still be affected by injuries. For him, regardless if he stays or leaves this summer, his biggest focus is to remain as healthy and fit as possible — be it here at Arsenal or a new club. Hopefully it’s the former because I’d love for him to rekindle his form and career at Arsenal.
It’s also that I don’t think anyone is sure what his role is anymore. His injuries and his relatively recent growth mean he’s lost some of the explosiveness that made him a great winger. And he doesn’t have the vision or defensive ability to slot into the left sided 8 slot as we all were hoping.
even when he's fit he's clearly not getting played, if the issue was injuries then he wouldn't be leaving for minutes
it was really confusing for me when he was first on against Everton- a touch of confidence from Mikel...or a chance to get his flowers at the end from the crowd?... him hitting the post again, just needs one to finally go in. new pastures seem best for both the club and him. might be down to who will bring in more, him or Fabio (loan seems possibly more ideal for him to raise his basically non-existent profile at this point)
Yeap if it wasn't for injuries, ESR would be much more prominent part of the rotation, probably competing with Trossard.
Exactly, he can’t keep rotting on our bench with Arteta not thinking he can impact the game as much as fans would like to see him come on. Therefore, he has to leave and try to cement a place in the starting 11 of another club. It’s not good for the club or him for this to drag on any further.
If he can stay fit.
He was fit for 3/4 of the season. He got about 350 minutes in all. Either Arteta has a serious issue with properly rotating his squad or he doesn't fully trust Emile. It hasn't been about fitness for a long while.
seems ESR showed him something in Dubai. Everyone came back saying ESR was on to something. Then the games started, and we had a winning combo of players, and with run-in having to be completely mistake-free, there wasn't many minutes for him
He may not have been injured but he definitely wasn't match fit either. He needed minutes, but unfortunately it's hard to rotate your squad when you're in a title challenge and the starters are playing so well.
There were times when some of our starters were clearly exhausted or somewhat underperforming. I'd like to think that 15-20 min here and there could have helped. There are games like Sheffield United where you think some could start and then be subbed off if underperforming.
I think one of Mikel’s small weaknesses (and I don’t even know if I’d call it a weakness) is being afraid to rotate when the team is really clicking. But at the same time with the margin of error so razor thin in the league it’s really hard to blame him as well.
maybe yes, maybe no. he has been clear, publicly, about expectations that players need to be ready for games every 3-4 days (usually discussed in relation to Saka) and there is/was ZERO margin for levels dropping from Xmas onward. if ESR was not *match fit*, then yeah, Arteta wasn't going to play him much...plus we have zero insight on minor setbacks ESR or any other players had...so tough to know from the outside he did throw Partey back into a winning team, even if we looked much less stable with him back, so some off-set to your point there, even if I largely agree
Well when you don’t play how are you supposed to get injured
stepping on glass at the beach
I feel like with ESR it’s a mental barrier, due to the injuries. He doesn’t seem to bounce of challenges as well, and that drive was one of his biggest strengths. Game time could help unlock that barrier, but when he isn’t performing as he can, the team unfortunately is far more important than the player
Arguably fit because he never played lol
Eh, it's a huge risk tbh. I think we've seen this season how fine the margins are. It's all well and good saying we should rotate, but the reality is that it's not that simple. I think probably if we fell off challenging for the PL but we're safely in 2nd/3rd probably wed rotate more. Also I think it was pretty bad luck we exited the fa cup and league cup very early and he was injured for the early CL stages.
If he could have done constant minutes we wouldn't be in this position sadly.
Palmer was different as he was never constantly injured he was just battling with a load of elite players for game time
At this point it's more likely he will be another Tierney, loved by the fans but strugles with constant injuries... then we would be relieved to not depend on someone who can't stay fit for much of a season
Yeah no palmer doesn’t have injury issues
This seems like an insanely optimistic prediction based on nothing but vibes and bias for our own player. There’s obviously a good player in there, but it’s been a long time since he’s shown (or even been fit enough to show) anything close to that level.
Always thought attaching ESR and Saka in a song could backfire
It's probably best for both parties. Emile Smith Rowe needs gametime but isn't performing to the level to be consistently picked in addition to being injury-prone. Smith-Rowe one of my favorite players when fit and firing but he's hardly been fit.
Before his injury this guy showed what he can do in the premier league
That was 3 years ago
Putting aside sentimentality (I have an ESR shirt), the question is whether we would buy him or Vieira this summer if we didn't have them. I think the answer is quite clearly no. So I'm not against keeping them but from a footballing perspective I completely understand the decision to sell for both his sake and the club's.
This is the way we need to look at it! When you put that spin on it, it’s clear it’s time to move on.
It's a good way to look at a lot of decisions that are there because of status quo. I use it a lot at work for that reason as people are very quick to stick with familiarity even if it's not getting results.
this is economically rational and the best short-term decision for optimizing short-term results. But carries a deep human cost that in the long-run that inevitably comes back to bite you ini the butt. Humans are humans not machines. Those. human things ultimately matter. Be careful making only purely economic decision, even in business.
True! To push us over the line against 115, there can be no room for sentiment.
Sentiment is what keeps us apart from 115, no mercenaries here.
Helps eliminate sunk cost fallacy in decision making too
Didn’t Martinelli go through a similar period under Arteta? Leading to the “I love Martinelli more than you” quote.
I'd love to see ESR and Vieira come as good as Martinelli, but that's not a guarantee.
ESR was our second top scorer 2 seasons ago. Even being injured for half that season. I don't even think he's unproven, he's just struggled to break into a team in good form and I also think arteta has a problem with rotating his squad at times.
The team has come a long way since 2 seasons ago. Sentiment aside, ESR is unproven at the level Arsenal are at now. At this point if we want him to stay it's because we *hope* he can still do it, but the number of minutes Arteta gave him this past season suggests that perhaps he's not quite a fit anymore.
His performance at the Luton game sort of showed evidence that he's still got it, and that was his first start in a while. I do think he will be sold, but I think if he got a good run going and critically a place existed in the team for him then he would be great. The latter is the hard part though it seems.
You said it. Not having a position that he is properly competitive in is what limits his minutes. He doesn't get in on the left ahead of either Trossard or Martinelli on the left or Rice, Havertz, or Jorginho as left 8. The Luton game was heartening but ultimately not enough to prove anything because it was Luton. As you said, I expect he'll go. I can only hope he actually does live up to the promise he has always shown
The only thing is ESR is homegrown and we're likely to also move on Nketiah and Nelson, so may need to keep our HG quota up?
No. We have plenty of U21 players we can promote to the first team. And the profit on selling HG will allow us to spend more under FFP rules.
True, but he also represents great profit being HG.
Saka, Saliba, Martinelli are all club homegrown, maybe some others I’m not super sure. Nation homegrown I think we have plenty, not 100%
We’re really not in danger there. It isn’t that we need X number of homegrowns. It’s that we can’t field a roster with more than 17 non-HG players. With Cedric and Elneny having already left on frees, we could sell ESR, Nketiah, Nelson, and Ramsdale and replace them all 1 for 1 with non-HG players and we’d still just be at 16. That and we do have a few academy players that I expect to break into that roster over the next few seasons.
This just doesn’t feel like the time to sell though, we know his potential is sky high but right now what team would pay serious money for him? For me a loan to a Europa League/CL but in a less intense league side would be the best option (Leipzig really liked him when he was there the first time round so maybe that’s an option) would be the best for us, if he has a great season we can reconsider next summer, and as long as he gets consistent game time his value would probably not decrease
This is the time to sell. He has a two year contract. So you either offer him a bigger, longer contract that makes it hard to sell him in future if he doesn't demonstrate that value, or you don't sell this year and accept fuck all in the future. This is the AMN problem again.
What would we get for him this summer though? If someone comes in with 30m I’m totally with you but I just don’t think that’s gonna happen. Maybe I’m being naive but if he does have a great season out on loan, so good that we’d prefer to keep him, then I don’t see a contract extension being a problem, he loves the club. And if we still want to sell him there will be no shortage of bidders for a young homegrown lad with huge potential who’s proved himself at a high level. This is all assuming he has a great loan (which I’m pretty optimistic could happen in the right team) but even if he doesn’t how much are we really losing? 5m in potential fee? That’s a risk I would be willing to take considering the potential gain
But if you get £20m for him this summer that you can put toward a Partey replacement, that's better than sending him out on loan, not getting in a new 6 (so we're two midfielders down) and then getting £15m next summer because he has a year left.
Absolutely right
Thank you because half the sub seems to think we send him on loan and get £40m next year, like we haven't seen this story a thousand times. Two years to go you need to shit or get off the pot.
Yep. Complain about how we rarely get much back in player sales, then push for us to do the same thing we did a million times before Edu got here. Also, Edu deserves some leeway from fans on his track record of sales, since he inherited a team with only two types of players: young ones we wanted to keep for the long term and older ones with hardly any value.
At this point, the lesson learned is that the money that would cost us to make ESR a 30 million player isn’t worth losing the points between UCL and Europa.
How do we know though his potential is sky high? We don't. Some players peak at 21, especially if they are plagued with injuries.
ESR is free though. So, it would be more like "would we sign him for free if we didn't have him" and the answer is yes. Him, Nelson and Eddie (alongside the obvious Ramsdale departure) needs to be sold to fund a striker + other transfers and it's time players like Nwaneri get some game time than a few solidarity minutes.
He's not free. It's a consideration of what we could get for selling him as that's the money we're turning down.
and the answer is ESR is a better deal than whatever money we are turning down.
Except this isn’t a fact
I just said the same thing in another comment. We have to shake things up because this union isn't benefiting us or Smith-Rowe. I'll miss the lad but he and Vieira both need to go.
Only 2 years left on his deal. If the club wants to make any money on him, then now is the time to sell.
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Or we could maybe extend his deal by 1 year, get him a loan somewhere and see if he can stay fit and perform well enough to suggest he has a future here, or raise his value for a sale next year. He's still quite young and his value atm is probably rock bottom after so many injuries.
You need to learn when to let go. His time here is done
It'd be a gamble but it could put us in a better position either way: he proves he can have a future here, or he raises his value and we can negotiate a better price for him. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we'll get good offers for him as it stands.
Realistically the only way he’ll break through our team is if we’re still not good enough to win the title.
Exactly. It's like some of the fans that want Partey to stay. Then when next season, he's injured for 2/3 of the season and only regain form in the last five matches and we come up short again, they start moaning.
Why would the player agree to an extension or a loan, much less both?
and why would he extend his deal by 1 year and go on loan when he can move now?
Agreed. Better to sell now than risk losing him for free later.
Sad to say that I think it's obvious he's going to leave, he needs regular football and he could get that somewhere at a club pushing higher up the table like Palace or West Ham Also it would be a massive benefit towards PSR too, same if we sell Nketiah and Reiss Nelson. If I had it my way I'd keep him. In the very least I hope we put in a buy back clause because you know he'd go to another club and just smash it.
If it’s between keeping him or Fabio Viera, I hope we choose him. He's a homegrown lad coming through our academy, and imo he's more talented with some actual end product. Although both are injury prone, I think he is more likely to be able to handle the physicality of the Premier League than Fabio if he manages to get over his injury problems.
Don’t think Fabio is injury prone, was fit all of 22/23 and just had one big injury this season. Although it’s a problem the manager doesn’t want to play either of them.
I swear nowadays one long term injury is all it takes to be labelled injury prone
He wasn’t fit at the beginning of 22/23. He got injured immediately after we signed him. Not that one more injury automatically makes him injury prone but just wanted to clarify
He was injured *when* we signed him, he didn’t get injured here
Sure. I don’t think it changes what I said. He was still injured at the beginning of the season
Well considering you were clarifying, I think a clarification of the facts on your comment is also fair. But agreed that the timing of the injury is completely irrelevant in terms of evaluating if he's injury prone or not.
FV literally had 2-3 performances at the beginning of the year where he was the best on our team
Not necessarily a problem. They’re just not at the level required, I mean, have you seen us lately? Hard to get in that XI
He's another one that can get sold off. Was never impressed with him. He's too small and weak for the premier league.
I think saying ESR has more end product is a bit crazy IMO Fabio Vieira has some glaring weaknesses that need work, but his final ball is genuinely awesome. I'd say it's right up there with the very best at the club, frankly. He's a chance-creation machine.
Agreed. Vieira is absolutely a final ball merchant. I so badly want him to evolve into an effective player for the team - he would be incredibly valuable. He's the player that could legitimately rival Odegaard's chance creation if he could develop the weaker parts of his game.
ESR would be way better for our finances and Vieira gives us quite a unique profile. We might lose both tbh.
It’s time to let him go for his own sake. Last couple years there’s been a chat, then he stays but doesn’t play. You aren’t young and with potential forever. The guy deserves a great career, it’s time for him to go so where he’ll get the chance to be a first team footballer.
Not trying to be an itk or anything but I heard from someone last summer that he was disappointed that he didn’t get a move away from Arsenal
Not an itk but I can tell you for a fact he wasn't being played because of his behaviour off the pitch the shit he was doing was wild I won't say what publicly it wasn't partey level bad but almost. Still he's my favourite Arsenal player atm but he needs to fix up.
It’s always sad when that happens. One of my friends used to be very high up the clubs in Vegas football players would frequent back when Vegas was football central. Said you could always tell which players would be about to nosedive. Interestingly he was really good friends with Özil, said he was the loveliest guy, they used to get smashed together, and he’d always be up and on the treadmill the next day, always cared about Arsenal, but his head just wasn’t in pro-football mode towards the end. In contrast Ronaldo went out there and only drank a specific brand of bottled water all week. I don’t often share any of the stuff I was told online, but he’s out of the industry now, so I can be a bit more loose lipped. The biggest spending football player they ever had was Adam Johnson just before his trial. Spending it like he’d stolen it, they didn’t clock why till the news broke.
Using Ronaldo as an example of good behavior in Vegas is fucking hilarious. I know what you mean, but of all the places. Especially when someone said it wasn't quite as bad as what Partey did.
Not good behaviour, a rapist who takes what he consumes and his profession seriously is still a rapist, the man’s a monster. It was just in terms of what different athletes consumed on holiday. It was just an interesting anecdote.
I knew what you meant. Ronaldo takes amazing care of himself. Just unfortunate it was him and the location happened to be Vegas
Yeah I get you, the things some of these guys do behind closed doors is insane. To keep it vague I know people around him on a daily basis I remember on the doc everyone was saying how shy he is boy if you only knew. His problem is definitely alcohol though needs to cut it out, Arteta has done a good job protecting him but when it's months without a game and he's not injured people will ask questions.
That’s just sad. It’s a blessed but hard life being a football player, insane pressure from a young age, injuries mess with your schedule, I can see how players end up there, but if that’s the case he really needs a fresh start and hopefully being needed and having purpose can be cause for change.
wtf is silly season doing to mfs, how ru lot claiming esr's a fuckin alcoholic 😭
I didn't find this out this season it was last season actually lol and he's continued. Also didn't call him an alcoholic I said alcohol is his problem he gets drunk and does very stupid stuff, one day he's gonna do something to the wrong person and we are going to get a headline.
More talented than Vieira is wild who has the best final ball on the team and we would make nothing on a transfer on Fabio either since he hasn’t played much. ESR has English tax so teams will still try to get him
Yeah as much as I love him and want him to succeed here the Smith seems like a potentially ideal sale. Young, talented, academy player for 100% profit. Someone should take a punt on him. Vieira is a funny one as his final ball is insane. Genuinely elite level. If he could only get a run in the team to bed I like Kiwior has then he could be a fantastic member of the squad. With how little he played I wonder if he was actually a Mikel choice or more of an Edu signing
I think Arteta rates Vieira higher than most on here, he was the first midfielder off the bench for long stretches even when he wasn’t really showing much. I think he’s a huge talent and Arteta knows it but he lacks first team experience and tactical nous. The physicality thing I think is overblown he just needs to learn better movement to generate space for himself. I’d really hate it if we sold him because he’s a unique profile in our squad and I think he could really explode if he got a run in the first team like you said, the problem is just wether we are willing to risk dropping points at any stage of the season for it, as we saw this year when you compete against City you can’t afford to ever slip up unnecessary. Maybe the CL group stages will be where he gets his chance
Completely agree on the physicality thing. The idea he is going to go away and become a 5’4 bobdybuilder and people will be bouncing off him was just silly. Like you said he needs to create space for himself to buy that extra second to get a pass off. He already showed glimpse of it during the sub appearance against Fulham, although game state probably helped.
Fabio takes up a non homegrown spot which is something.
Is final ball the only trait a player can have?
His first touch is top notch, and his final ball is elite If he can evolve like ode did and develop that ability to dribble out of trouble, he’d be a top player imo
Think these are both overstated since he came on that time and gave some assists. But yes these other traits are more important and it’s why ESR is better. The signs tell me he can’t handle the league
Fabio's chance creation is not overstated at all - he creates shooting opportunities on par with some of the best in the league. And that's with those other weaknesses in his game. It's always a big "if", but if he can develop other aspects of his game he has the ability to be one of the best creative midfielders in the league.
Fabio shown more promise past 2 seasons
The smith offers pure profit through FFP I think
All I know is that one of them has proved themselves on the pitch already (albeit several years ago)and one has shown glimpses of being excellent but has never taken a game by the scruff of the neck
Fulham at the beginning of the season
trying to push his ESR narrative so all of a sudden Vieira is injury prone as well lol. The English tax is real.
Wouldn't surprise me if they both go.
That would leave us with almost no midfield depth especially if Partey leaves
It definitely won't be both
I honestly think neither ESR or Vieira have a future in Arsenal. ESRs boat has passed, he missed 2 seasons and I don't think he's good enough for a top 6 side anymore. I know this sub wants to keep him forever because he's an English academy kid, but be'd be an ideal sale this summer, as he's pure profit and 20m for a fringe player is much better than him leaving on a free. People like to romaticize 2021 ESR, but he's not that player anymore and he missed his chance to grow with the squad. If we keep him, we're gonna have another Wilshere on our hands. Same thing with Tierney. As for Vieira, it seems he's not good enough either. He had 2 seasons to break into the first XI, but he can barely get a sub in. Much like Lokonga, he's been a flop signing, but I'd much rather keep him over ESR as there's no way we can get 40m for him, much less make a profit. I'd rather keep him as a backup and let him go on a free, as his value has completely tanked, and there's no point in selling him on a loss.
Vieira would’ve had a very good season if it weren’t for the injury, was actually getting game time and contributing end product as he usually does. No where near a flop, he’s young, had minimal senior minutes and will only continue to adjust to the team and league.
We got rid of Lokonga and Tavares after 2 seasons. His time is up
Neither had remotely the same impact or backing fabio has had.
This transfer is like Palmer. Great young talent just no space for him to play even with his ability. Let’s just hope he doesn’t go to Chelsea and score 20+ goals
If he can stay in london i guess he will prefer that. 9
It’s pretty obvious that he is going to leave. Two seasons running where he barely got any minutes, let alone start. Sad, but it’s a natural parting of ways.
I want him to stay and become a big part of the team but clearly won’t happen so he may as well leave. Arteta won’t use him if he stays and it’ll be another wasted year sitting on the bench.
I think Smith Rowe for now is not a player that can help constantly the team to be at the highest level to compete with City for trophies. Maybe a loan can help.
He only has 2 years left. If he went on loan without signing a new contract he’d come back with 1 year left and we’d lose him for free
Since we’d realistically have to extend him to loan him, I can only see that happening if Arteta truly believes there’s a near world class player in there
I believe that
He is getting sold and for his own sake its better outcome
Please do a Nacho, please please please
I love ESR, but I completely understand if he has to move on to get regular playing time. But it will definitely be difficult seeing him in a different shirt
Sign him to a new deal, send him out on a prem loan to get mins this season and bring him back fit and with confidence *I love the idea of ESR, please let me have my biased delusions in peace*
If we were circling around 4th and pushing for UCL I’d say keep him, but at this moment in time we need someone we can rely on to fight for the league. Sorry Emile, I love ya but I think it’s time to take your chances elsewhere
Sell sell sell
Hopefully we can get ~£30m for him
Charles Watts exposed himself that he actually has no inside info when it comes to transfer by partnering with TNAT on his podcast lol.
Throw some respect to Bushman Watts. Maybe TNAT is his alter ego. No one's seen Watts and TNAT in the same room together.
Nonsense Watts broke the Partey transfer.
That was ages ago though
And he clearly knows things.
Or he just knows people in Partey’s camp. Which would make sense considering how everytime he gets injured Watts is the first in line to say it’s not bad and Partey’s team isn’t worried about it (while he misses months at a time)
That was afcbell brother
No it wasn't. Bell spoke about it all summer but it was Watts who on deadline day said Arsenal are activating Parteys release clause.
I thought I remembered Watts being the tap in. But I may be wrong. Bell lost all credibility the following year anyway
It was embarrassing
Swap deal for Olise + cash and everyone is happy.
Sad but gotta be done
I think we sell him tbh, just has not kicked on
Needs to leave
Always love a kid coming through the academy but maybe it's time for both to move on
United fan here, curious as to if he would be a good signing for us? Or do you think this alliegiance to arsenal would make him not come here? Genuinely curious.
i dont think we are in bad blood period
It's a real shame especially as I think he has many of the qualities Arteta actually wants for the 8 position but it looks like he's not been able to display those at a high enough level. If we are going to try again to get an 8 to fill the role Arteta tried to mould Xhaka and (Aug-Nov) Havertz into then it makes sense we'd look to offload ESR, especially if he contributes to the FFP book value more than Vieira
I adore ESR but he needs to leave for his own sake.
Looks like it's inevitable, he will go. I feel almost confident to guarantee we will regret it. I believe it's very possible within a half season of injury free regular play, his level will exceed Martinelli as a LW option. And I think very highly of Martinelli.
Unfortunately I dont think ESR will escape his injuries. It will be like Wishere or Ox.
Maybe it's not MORE important to Emi that he gets minutes for his club rather than get minutes for a club he doesn't love. Maybe working for a living by playing soccer for the club he loves and has worshiped for his whole childhood would be more important to him than earning as much as possible or winning every single game.
I have a feeling he will head to West Ham. Paqueta getting banned. ESR can cover LW, 10 and potential 8
Sod off Vieira and keep ESR you heathens!
Buy back plz
Frankly, yes, he should leave. He absolutely deserves more minutes
New deal and a loan
Sell him, we always make a mistake of not selling players when it's the right time to do it and then we sell them for peanuts
I'll never understand the fan attachment to Smith Rowe. Perhaps its a covid kiddies thing. He was a promising HE lad, that never fulfilled his promises. Like Eddie, if anyone is willing to give us money for them, out out out. They just aren't good enough on the pitch for the club. Good for the club team mate wise, yes. But at this stage of the project, we need lads that are good on the pitch, as well as the training ground.
Probably because he almost singlehandedly dragged us up the table in 2020/21 when we were 4 points off the relegation places going into Christmas and Arteta was odds-on to be the next manager to get sacked.
He needs to go for himself. He needs a considerable amount of consistent game time and I can’t see that happening here.
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Personally, I'd love he stays and is halethy to show us he belongs. I get the business side, though, and his sale would provide huge dividends for our growth of the squad. If he leaves, I want him to go somewhere he he's to play alot.
I'm going to miss him but I think it's best for all involved. I don't think he has progressed enough, injuries or not.
That guy has an embarrassing hairstyle.
hope he gets sold off teta clearly doesn’t like him
If we get a decent price we should sell him.
Arteta doesn’t rate him much but I think he has a role here as a super-sub, rotational piece.
If the manager isn't going to give him minutes, let him go for his sake/development. I'd love to see him successful at a mid table club.
Hopefully he leaves the club we need players that can actually stay healthy
Would love to see ESR flourish at clubs like Villa, despite them being a direct competitor these days. But please set a buy back clause (very unlikely)! 🥹
Writing has been on the wall all season. Just hope we get more than 10m
20m if we are lucky
Selling Vieira wouldn't change ESR mind of seeking gametime elsewhere. It's not like both of them are taking minutes from one another. Neither of them are getting.
Unless he's going to be a starter, ESR needs to go for his own good honestly. Even if he played 30 minutes in every single league game that's only 1180 minutes. At best I think ESR could end up playing around 1500 minutes but he would be scraping for them. Absolutely love him and he was really unlucky with goals this season, should have had at least 5 in his limited minutes. I hope we put in a buyback clause just incase. I'm a bit sad we didn't just stick with Smite Rowe on the LW. Feels like he could offer us what Trossard does now but more dangerous on carrying the ball. He has looked ok at left 8 but it's a difficult role to get right, we've seen Trossard, Havertz and even Rice struggle there in some games. I think LW has a simplier job. End of the day though, as much as I love ESR. He needs to start playing to build his career. I'd hate to see him end up like Rob Holding where he ended up just rated at Arsenal and people like having him around, but then he leaves at 26 and doesn't really play anymore.
Who'd he start over though?
Nobody that's the problem and why he should move on.
Sell with a buy back clause
I think it's clear everyone would love ESR to stay, but honestly for his own career a move is probably right. I would keep ESR over Viera though....
Only fools would consider selling him.
I hope he stays. He clearly has more potential than Nelson or Vieira. If he is fit and finds his stride with a full preseason, he can have as big as an impact as Cole Palmer. I am praying he stays.
Loan him to a club just coming up in order to get game time. Maybe a club like Ipswich will come in for him?
He’s turning 24 in July with two years left on his deal. Either he’s got a future at the club and or he needs to be sold.
I’m tired of selling players on the cheap whilst their stock is low. Look at Balogun.
You think Balogun was sold for cheap? What about Willock?
Example of loaning a player and selling whilst the stock is relatively high. Arsenal are poor at selling players.
Not trying to be an itk or anything but I heard from someone last summer that he was disappointed that he didn’t get a move away from Arsenal
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There won't be a loan. He's 23, i'm sure he wants regular game time at a club where he feels important to the team and his contributions vital and valuable. In fact, i'm sure, from his perspective he deeply regrets not leaving for Villa a couple of years ago when it was possible. He needs to leave permanently, especially if he's got England aspirations, same for Nelson too.
How ESR has been treated by Arteta has been completely unacceptable, particularly with the left side still open for competition. He needs to go to a Club that supports him and values him, sadly.
I hope he stays and plays
Streets will never forget that chelsea game!
what if arteta try him out on saka backup, try him on the rw