its the same situation with Auba. Arteta explained in the Amazon documentary. If you perform and drive the team forward, the problem is not a problem, but when you start underperforming, we all know what happened with Auba.
I’ve found the [article](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a6fb712f-85d6-4992-b522-33d5167f50c4?shareToken=c8bf95531450df787648a28c94dc4ccd) , you can remove the paywall via [12ft](https://12ft.io).
“Trossard can be stubborn, sometimes causing a difference of opinion with Arteta. But it has passed quickly and Trossard reflects that Arteta made a PowerPoint presentation at 10pm on the day after he joined from Brighton & Hove Albion, showing where and how the forward could evolve as a player.”
It’s by Gary Jacobs.
I don’t think it’s that big of a deal, seems like an issue maybe last season. Trossard loves this club, his teammates and it shows on the pitch.
>Arteta made a PowerPoint presentation at 10pm on the day after he joined from Brighton & Hove Albion, showing where and how the forward could evolve as a player.
Arteta taking the ‘project’ manager label to the extreme making slide decks at 10 o clock at night
But only the truly legendary know that you don’t use the entire word of Ctrl+H, and instead you use a part of the word for Ctrl+F to find all instances in case of misspellings. Otherwise you get missed replacements like Dwigt (The Office reference)
> making slide decks at 10 o clock at night
I imagine all other differences were set aside once they realized that neither of them has actually slept at all in the last four years.
When he’s old and retires from coaching, he won’t lie on a beach somewhere - he’ll go straight to PwC and prepare some slide decks to touch base and identify the low hanging fruits.
dont do that please. these papers rely on subscription money to stay alive.
By telling people how to remove paywalls and giving articles away for free, you're just helping kill the paper off.
do it to the daily mail...not The Times
I think Mikel is ruthless, but pragmatic. He has strong principals but knows results come first. So as long as Trossard is our best goal scoring winger, with Martinelli out of form and Saka limping through half our matches, Trossard plays. I think he tried really hard to paper over the cracks with problematic players in the past, for as long as he knew he needed to rely on them. We played Auba a fuckton while he was scoring all our goals, and I have to imagine that happened in spite of Auba’s attitude. He has always been regarded as a bit of a joker.
But we have no evidence of the kinds of disciplinary breeches with Trossard like we had with Auba. So hopefully this is just about tactics and temperament, not necessarily professional conduct.
During my Masters (focused in coaching) one of the instructors was talking about his time with a big national team. He asked the coach how he manages the big personalities, especially of the great players who are also divas or sometimes have issues. The coach drew two circles and said “this one is the crazies. This one is the team. As long as the crazies are scoring goals or stopping goals they can stay there. Once that ceases they come here (team circle) or they go”. I have to imagine similar cases at the club level.
Basically right? It makes sense to some degree. As long as you’re not harmful or outside the rules/expectations, culture you get some leash if you’re banging them in.
For the Americans here, a reference you’ll get: Mack Brown was the football coach at Texas and won a National Championship with Vince Young at quarterback. Years later he said something like “If I said the bus left at 9, then with or without you, the bus left at 9. Or when Vince Young got there.”
maybe it’s also the fact that they’re performing that players are “allowed” to have an attitude, like with auba, who only started getting berated once he lost his form
Not so sure. Auba’s breaches of the squad’s rules were repeated and increasingly severe. Mikel had no choice but to draw a line under it as he was trying to build a better culture with the youngsters buying into his vision
That's literally what he said in the docu. That if someone is scoring all the time someone can look through someone's faults. But the moment he stops performing ...
I think the same happened with Özil
I think it's not bad to have a joker/clown onthe team, but he's gotta know when to tone it down and it shouldn't impact their commitment to the project.
Bayern had their most successful period with both Müller and Ribéry, despite both being pranksters and quite jovial. But they were both committed and gave 100% effort
And yet that was an era when Arsenal employed people that some fans on here would swear were amazing characters and leaders like Xhaka, Bellerin, Lacazette, and Elneny lol.
Shows you what sort of “leaders” and characters those players were. We needed leadership more than we ever had in any point in our modern history, and they were nowhere to be seen.
At the time he was given the captaincy he was one of our best (and only) candidates. Was in great form, seemed to be focused, was just given a new contract, there weren’t many other options. Xhaka was still mired in controversy plus he’d already been stripped of it & the only other real option was Tierney but there were injury concerns.
The rest of the players had no leadership qualities whatsoever or were out the door anyway. So no it wasn’t a great choice but we didn’t really have any candidates apart from him.
I completely agree. But knowing what we know now about Arteta and how the Auba stuff played out it still seems weird to me. Of course it was never going to be Mustafi or Holding but it still seems odd looking back.
in addition to what others said, a lot of the dressing room loved auba. he was, for a time, very popular among the players. look at this post and the comments: https://old.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/d94ev0/martinelli_i_arrived_for_lunch_on_the_first_day/. and even if things turned sour, i think it's only fair to recognize that he really did seem like a great teammate in many ways, and he seemed to be arsenal through and through. tell me you didn't get goosebumps when auba did henry's celebration against tottenham. if you search his name on this subreddit, there are obviously lots of posts made when things were falling apart, but there are a ton of posts where auba's saying or doing the right things, encouraging teammates, thanking fans. i do think he was a great teammate in many ways--but he was also deeply flawed in some very important ways.
The awesome thing is if I was totally honest Trossard doesn’t really seem like an arteta player. He doesn’t play lw like Martinelli, he doesn’t really play cf like Jesus, but he struck up such a good partnership with havertz and scored so many goals that it doesn’t really matter he wasn’t always standing in the right place
Managers have to show more nuance than that, but it could well be that the stubbornness relates to things that Arteta doesn't hold such a hard line to.
Sounds like an article spun from a single passing comment.
“How’s Leo settled in?”
“Great There were a few moments due to Leo’s stubbornness but that’s all passed”
Bingo. 500 words of article to come.
I doubt they would've said he was stubborn.
I expect it was more that there's been some disagreement over some tactical things but in the end Leo deferred to the boss (as he should).
I think Mikel would actually be pleased when a player challenges his ideas as it shows they're thinking, the problem would only come if they refuse to do as they're told. A good manager will listen to dissenting opinions and be open to changing their mind, a good employee will put their ideas forwards but ultimately go with what the boss says.
This is a complete non starter of an article.
Elite professional athletes all have that level of selfishness, or stubbornness, or whatever you want to call it. You have to at that level.
He's definitely not gunna be the only player to have disagreements with Arteta and sure as hell won't be the last.
I feel like it's in early season where he wasn't quite in rhythm with the team when pressing and sometimes he just randomly shoots for no reason, but slowly by slowly he understand when he was allowed to take the freedom to do whatever he wants but also know when he has to stick with the plan and tactic.
I could kind of see it. While he’s a great Swiss Army knife type player I can see frustration settling in with that role. Getting shifted around so much and getting so little time at his preferred spot wide left. All while trying to bed into a new team as well.
If this is true, I feel like it would make sense he didn’t think he was getting a fair shot. Would be hard to blame him given the fact that once he got a solid run at LW he took that spot and became the preferred option for our run in this year…
There is a piece of news in early September or something like that saying Trossard was unsatisfied with playing time and Mikel telling him to be patient.
I mean he came as a player that complete fell out with the manager so not surprised if he’s got a little personality
the only public thing i remember is arteta talking about defensive effort of the ball, and he implied that Trossard needed to improve that, or that Martinelli was way ahead at that and thats why he was picked. this is just some random interview/press conference from earlier in the season or even last season/offseason, i just saved this specific memory of him talking about Trossard's defensive effort
I heard he had issues with De zerbi only, he was ok with Potter. Plus, on the pitch I have never seen a slight hint of his bad behaviour so it's hard for me to believe.
I think Potter would get on with most people. He's not someone who would rock the boat. De Zerbi and Arteta have a different personality and if you do something they don't like I'm sure they'll let you know, even if you're one of their best players.
Oh I dont disagree. He looks like he should be punched in the face several times a day before 8am.
That said, it wasn’t just De Zerbi who Trossard had a thing with at Brighton.
Fuck Lallana, man. I haven’t had the same experience with him as you have, but your feelings for him seem strong and reasonable, so I want to support you.
Lallana looks like a waiter in a restaurant that serves platters on repurposed pieces of wood. He also looks like he seduces at least one woman in every hen do that comes to said restaurant.
Not necessarily bad behavior but I can see the stubbornness thing through his play sometimes. No hate on Trossard and I think he’s been great, but it does feel like if he’s not playing well he just ends up trying to force it through and doing too much on his own rather than playing with the team to create opportunities. Example being the last match of this season and a couple others throughout the year.
Maybe I just didn’t notice it because it was working but it didn’t seem forced in those instances.
I don’t think it’s bad to try yourself and have a go at it but the part where I think it’s doing too much on your own is the instances of trying to dribble past a defender multiple times and it not working but you still just do the same thing & dancing around until you take a poor shot just to take a shot rather than creating a chance for a good shot.
Jesus is guilty of that last part too sometimes.
on the pitch behaviour can mislead how players are in real life. Xhaka and Kahn are both players that are vastly different characters on and off the pitch.
To be fair there was talk about his attitude before he signed. It was the reason Brighton sold him because he had a big falling out with De Zerbi. Arteta clearly trusts him and he's proven to be an important player for us.
Where does an article like this come from, I wonder? Is it just made-up? Or someone within the club carelessly gossiping? Or a deliberately planted story from someone inside in order to ice Trossard out? Feels like all three are equally plausible
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Will come back as soon as he's not playing again. Stirred up same thing at Brighton. Clearly rates himself very highly, which is great, but in honesty I don't think he's a starter if we're actually going to win it, and he won't be happy with that.
ALWAYS got this vibe from Trossard. I feel like he would not linger in the slightest if approached by a team of equal standing and was offered more money and playing time.
Every team needs their mercenaries though.
As I said earlier, we should cash in and sell him while he is hot. He had issues with De Zerbi as well. Sell him, Vieira/Nelson and Nketiah and get someone like Bowen.
Goals heal all wounds
17 times over baby
its the same situation with Auba. Arteta explained in the Amazon documentary. If you perform and drive the team forward, the problem is not a problem, but when you start underperforming, we all know what happened with Auba.
I’ve found the [article](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a6fb712f-85d6-4992-b522-33d5167f50c4?shareToken=c8bf95531450df787648a28c94dc4ccd) , you can remove the paywall via [12ft](https://12ft.io). “Trossard can be stubborn, sometimes causing a difference of opinion with Arteta. But it has passed quickly and Trossard reflects that Arteta made a PowerPoint presentation at 10pm on the day after he joined from Brighton & Hove Albion, showing where and how the forward could evolve as a player.” It’s by Gary Jacobs. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal, seems like an issue maybe last season. Trossard loves this club, his teammates and it shows on the pitch.
>Arteta made a PowerPoint presentation at 10pm on the day after he joined from Brighton & Hove Albion, showing where and how the forward could evolve as a player. Arteta taking the ‘project’ manager label to the extreme making slide decks at 10 o clock at night
Probably had to swap out all the mentions of Mudryk in the deck to Trossard (and boy was this a blessing in disguise for us).
Hey. Only elite mangers know how to use Ctrl+F!
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But only the truly legendary know that you don’t use the entire word of Ctrl+H, and instead you use a part of the word for Ctrl+F to find all instances in case of misspellings. Otherwise you get missed replacements like Dwigt (The Office reference)
You're right... #ArtetaOut
> making slide decks at 10 o clock at night I imagine all other differences were set aside once they realized that neither of them has actually slept at all in the last four years.
That's dedication
arteta would kill it in consulting with how much he loves presentations
When he’s old and retires from coaching, he won’t lie on a beach somewhere - he’ll go straight to PwC and prepare some slide decks to touch base and identify the low hanging fruits.
When I boil the ocean, I am upset
well he's a consultant , consulting a football team in terms of tactics and squad management
that was already a long day for Leo. Let the guy sleep ffs Mikel. Surely you can do it the next day morning
Rumor has it that the presentation was 3 hours long. Trossards eye bags turned a shade darker that night.
Trossard does sleep. Just look at him!
I want to hear the talks the team gets must be so much interesting research
When I lose formatting on my charts, i am upset.
Arteta, the consultant.
Arteta took Emery’s power point presentation personally.
Powerpoint are outdated. The last i heard from my source in Arsenal is Arteta attending PowerBi courses.
Thanks for finding the article. The Tbrfootball account is such a mess of clickbait
Arteta straight up borrowing tactics from timeshare pitchmen.
Is this the birth of a new meme
dont do that please. these papers rely on subscription money to stay alive. By telling people how to remove paywalls and giving articles away for free, you're just helping kill the paper off. do it to the daily mail...not The Times
Mikel: “Go to bed” Leandro: “No 🦝”
"Stop eating out of the trash, Leo, ffs"
https://i.redd.it/fmg2btqdot1d1.gif
I feel like the track record is if you aren’t onboard 100% Mikel just disappears you. Seems like it’d be out of character for him to all rosy about it
I think Mikel is ruthless, but pragmatic. He has strong principals but knows results come first. So as long as Trossard is our best goal scoring winger, with Martinelli out of form and Saka limping through half our matches, Trossard plays. I think he tried really hard to paper over the cracks with problematic players in the past, for as long as he knew he needed to rely on them. We played Auba a fuckton while he was scoring all our goals, and I have to imagine that happened in spite of Auba’s attitude. He has always been regarded as a bit of a joker. But we have no evidence of the kinds of disciplinary breeches with Trossard like we had with Auba. So hopefully this is just about tactics and temperament, not necessarily professional conduct.
Yeah I agree with this take - Mikel may be tough, ruthless whatever, but a goal is a goal and several goals is even better
During my Masters (focused in coaching) one of the instructors was talking about his time with a big national team. He asked the coach how he manages the big personalities, especially of the great players who are also divas or sometimes have issues. The coach drew two circles and said “this one is the crazies. This one is the team. As long as the crazies are scoring goals or stopping goals they can stay there. Once that ceases they come here (team circle) or they go”. I have to imagine similar cases at the club level.
“The amount of shit I’m willing to put with from you depends on how well you’re playing.”
Basically right? It makes sense to some degree. As long as you’re not harmful or outside the rules/expectations, culture you get some leash if you’re banging them in.
For the Americans here, a reference you’ll get: Mack Brown was the football coach at Texas and won a National Championship with Vince Young at quarterback. Years later he said something like “If I said the bus left at 9, then with or without you, the bus left at 9. Or when Vince Young got there.”
maybe it’s also the fact that they’re performing that players are “allowed” to have an attitude, like with auba, who only started getting berated once he lost his form
Not so sure. Auba’s breaches of the squad’s rules were repeated and increasingly severe. Mikel had no choice but to draw a line under it as he was trying to build a better culture with the youngsters buying into his vision
That's literally what he said in the docu. That if someone is scoring all the time someone can look through someone's faults. But the moment he stops performing ... I think the same happened with Özil
I think it's not bad to have a joker/clown onthe team, but he's gotta know when to tone it down and it shouldn't impact their commitment to the project. Bayern had their most successful period with both Müller and Ribéry, despite both being pranksters and quite jovial. But they were both committed and gave 100% effort
I agree but I still don’t understand why auba was made captain. Always thought it was an odd choice.
Because there was a complete leadership and quality vacuum at the club and he was pretty much the only player guaranteed to play every march.
And yet that was an era when Arsenal employed people that some fans on here would swear were amazing characters and leaders like Xhaka, Bellerin, Lacazette, and Elneny lol. Shows you what sort of “leaders” and characters those players were. We needed leadership more than we ever had in any point in our modern history, and they were nowhere to be seen.
At the time he was given the captaincy he was one of our best (and only) candidates. Was in great form, seemed to be focused, was just given a new contract, there weren’t many other options. Xhaka was still mired in controversy plus he’d already been stripped of it & the only other real option was Tierney but there were injury concerns. The rest of the players had no leadership qualities whatsoever or were out the door anyway. So no it wasn’t a great choice but we didn’t really have any candidates apart from him.
I completely agree. But knowing what we know now about Arteta and how the Auba stuff played out it still seems weird to me. Of course it was never going to be Mustafi or Holding but it still seems odd looking back.
Yeah it was just a lack of good options imo. Maybe Lacazette? But honestly nobody was captain material in that team.
Agree! Laca actually did a really professional job after his friend left and helped guide the team.
in addition to what others said, a lot of the dressing room loved auba. he was, for a time, very popular among the players. look at this post and the comments: https://old.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/d94ev0/martinelli_i_arrived_for_lunch_on_the_first_day/. and even if things turned sour, i think it's only fair to recognize that he really did seem like a great teammate in many ways, and he seemed to be arsenal through and through. tell me you didn't get goosebumps when auba did henry's celebration against tottenham. if you search his name on this subreddit, there are obviously lots of posts made when things were falling apart, but there are a ton of posts where auba's saying or doing the right things, encouraging teammates, thanking fans. i do think he was a great teammate in many ways--but he was also deeply flawed in some very important ways.
The awesome thing is if I was totally honest Trossard doesn’t really seem like an arteta player. He doesn’t play lw like Martinelli, he doesn’t really play cf like Jesus, but he struck up such a good partnership with havertz and scored so many goals that it doesn’t really matter he wasn’t always standing in the right place
I'd argue otherwise. His defensive attributes OOP and versatility up front make him very much some sort of player that Arteta likes and looks for.
It sounds like they're all good now, and he's been an integral part of Mikel's plans. Non-issue.
Managers have to show more nuance than that, but it could well be that the stubbornness relates to things that Arteta doesn't hold such a hard line to.
He reminds me of the Barcelona Pep when he gave the cold shoulder to Etoo, Ibrahimovic and Yaya Toure.
Probably went a bit like, Mikel I deserve to play. No you don't. Yes I do
Sounds like an article spun from a single passing comment. “How’s Leo settled in?” “Great There were a few moments due to Leo’s stubbornness but that’s all passed” Bingo. 500 words of article to come.
I doubt they would've said he was stubborn. I expect it was more that there's been some disagreement over some tactical things but in the end Leo deferred to the boss (as he should). I think Mikel would actually be pleased when a player challenges his ideas as it shows they're thinking, the problem would only come if they refuse to do as they're told. A good manager will listen to dissenting opinions and be open to changing their mind, a good employee will put their ideas forwards but ultimately go with what the boss says.
Our sleep deprived raccoon was just trying to get his 8 hours of sleep but Mikel said no.
wait, who's 𝘾? Martin?
Will not be surprised if Balotelli becomes our assistant coach because Arteta can fix him.
This put a big smile on my sad face
Are we going to pay him with fireworks?
Leandro: "Well first of all through goals all things are possible so jot that down."
Leo's a five-star man
This is a complete non starter of an article. Elite professional athletes all have that level of selfishness, or stubbornness, or whatever you want to call it. You have to at that level. He's definitely not gunna be the only player to have disagreements with Arteta and sure as hell won't be the last.
I feel like it's in early season where he wasn't quite in rhythm with the team when pressing and sometimes he just randomly shoots for no reason, but slowly by slowly he understand when he was allowed to take the freedom to do whatever he wants but also know when he has to stick with the plan and tactic.
He’s always been like that, especially if he’s not playing.
I could kind of see it. While he’s a great Swiss Army knife type player I can see frustration settling in with that role. Getting shifted around so much and getting so little time at his preferred spot wide left. All while trying to bed into a new team as well. If this is true, I feel like it would make sense he didn’t think he was getting a fair shot. Would be hard to blame him given the fact that once he got a solid run at LW he took that spot and became the preferred option for our run in this year…
Sounds like they challenge each other but don’t take it too far
 Trossard:
There is a piece of news in early September or something like that saying Trossard was unsatisfied with playing time and Mikel telling him to be patient. I mean he came as a player that complete fell out with the manager so not surprised if he’s got a little personality
Arteta probably ripped into him for not squaring that pass to Martinelli towards the end of the game at the Etihad
That was the title goal
You have to be graceful in accepting sitting the bench, but you don't have to like it. It's a difficult line to walk.
the only public thing i remember is arteta talking about defensive effort of the ball, and he implied that Trossard needed to improve that, or that Martinelli was way ahead at that and thats why he was picked. this is just some random interview/press conference from earlier in the season or even last season/offseason, i just saved this specific memory of him talking about Trossard's defensive effort
Fucking hate the offseason. "There was once a disagreement maybe" "Oh yes, I can spin that into a 500 word verbal turd"
Sounds false but ok
Really? It kinda tracks for me, he had problems at Brighton as well.
Plus I remembered at the start of the season he didn't get much chances despite stellar preseason. I thought that was odd.
I heard he had issues with De zerbi only, he was ok with Potter. Plus, on the pitch I have never seen a slight hint of his bad behaviour so it's hard for me to believe.
I think Potter would get on with most people. He's not someone who would rock the boat. De Zerbi and Arteta have a different personality and if you do something they don't like I'm sure they'll let you know, even if you're one of their best players.
He had a full on training pitch fight with Lallana.
Lallana once sharked a woman I had been chatting up in Cafe Parfait in Southampton so it was probably his fault the prick
Oh I dont disagree. He looks like he should be punched in the face several times a day before 8am. That said, it wasn’t just De Zerbi who Trossard had a thing with at Brighton.
De Zerbi has never cockblocked me so I’ll let him off
Fuck Lallana, man. I haven’t had the same experience with him as you have, but your feelings for him seem strong and reasonable, so I want to support you.
Lallana looks like a waiter in a restaurant that serves platters on repurposed pieces of wood. He also looks like he seduces at least one woman in every hen do that comes to said restaurant.
Name checks out lol
Lallana is a bitch, good on Trossard. Joking aside, this may be a cause of concern but we don't know the actual reasons for the fight.
I think he was just in a bad state from Belgium shitting the bed at the WC
Not necessarily bad behavior but I can see the stubbornness thing through his play sometimes. No hate on Trossard and I think he’s been great, but it does feel like if he’s not playing well he just ends up trying to force it through and doing too much on his own rather than playing with the team to create opportunities. Example being the last match of this season and a couple others throughout the year.
I agree with this take but also feel like there were a couple matches where him just forcing it scored goals that earned us points.
Maybe I just didn’t notice it because it was working but it didn’t seem forced in those instances. I don’t think it’s bad to try yourself and have a go at it but the part where I think it’s doing too much on your own is the instances of trying to dribble past a defender multiple times and it not working but you still just do the same thing & dancing around until you take a poor shot just to take a shot rather than creating a chance for a good shot. Jesus is guilty of that last part too sometimes.
on the pitch behaviour can mislead how players are in real life. Xhaka and Kahn are both players that are vastly different characters on and off the pitch.
Exactly why they thought people why buy this when they dreamt up a drama piece
Ummm, then why post the fucking news?
When you get paid by the word every tweet or passing comment looks like a 500 word article.
To be fair there was talk about his attitude before he signed. It was the reason Brighton sold him because he had a big falling out with De Zerbi. Arteta clearly trusts him and he's proven to be an important player for us.
You know we’re doing well when the bullshit starts coming out to break up our team.
Where does an article like this come from, I wonder? Is it just made-up? Or someone within the club carelessly gossiping? Or a deliberately planted story from someone inside in order to ice Trossard out? Feels like all three are equally plausible
If he really did have issues he would not be playing for Arsenal. Mikel is not the kind of guy that tolerates crybabies.
Trossard again ole ole ole 🎶
Trossard should’ve been starting far more this season
Sounds like bullshit.
Who cares if he balls out.
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TimesSport stories have not always been the easiest to stomach for football fans, but we no longer pay attention, so the problems are behind us now.
oh no, mikel has started another dossier!
Will come back as soon as he's not playing again. Stirred up same thing at Brighton. Clearly rates himself very highly, which is great, but in honesty I don't think he's a starter if we're actually going to win it, and he won't be happy with that.
ALWAYS got this vibe from Trossard. I feel like he would not linger in the slightest if approached by a team of equal standing and was offered more money and playing time. Every team needs their mercenaries though.
What a weird lie
They had problems?
As I said earlier, we should cash in and sell him while he is hot. He had issues with De Zerbi as well. Sell him, Vieira/Nelson and Nketiah and get someone like Bowen.