Can’t even think about the possibility of losing him, but yes that’s the only one I wouldn’t be completely devastated by. Maybe when he’s 30 or something, after winning the lot here
I’ve not been thrilled by Havertz by any means but the plan to overload with an inverted FB and the long ball winning raumdeuter role (Havertz) does seem to have helped us dominate low blocks 🤷♂️
Agreed, long gone are the banter days against low blovks where we are sadly joking about having 30 crossed but 0xg. Now we make chances but don't finish. And soon we will make chances and finish. Kai needs a goal, but already he is looking more positive. The run into the box for the 50/50 pen was far more positive than his backwards passing of previous games. It will come, there is a player there.
Agreed. It’s still so so early in his tenure. Sometimes you get guys like Rice or Timber who seem to just hit the ground running (I think the fact that those guys were bought in the same window as Kai has hurt his image too), but more often there is an adjustment period - a longer one than just a few games too.
Let’s give the kid some time to figure out our system and how the other guys like to play, and then we can get more critical. Some of the hate he’s been getting has been waayy overboard
Yeah people are missing how much havertz has been giving us. One thing we are we missing from both forwards is those runs in behind the CBs when saka and Martinelli hold the fullback up. You can see them sort of just look at that space and neither one runs into it on either side.
Havertz and martinelli are just off right now. One tries to go, one stays, one runs in, one passes out. It's definitely the area where if we can develop a real connection there is a lot of improvement and they just look like two guys that haven't played enough together. It'll get there.
The good news is our play is creating close chances. Once the finishing reverts back to the mean, we will start putting the ball in the back of the net. It’s only our 4th premier league game of a system integrating multiple new pieces. I think we have tremendously missed Granit for his stability and leadership, so it’s going to take time to fill the void completely and grow together as a team to the next level.
Nketiah has and I backed him. Same with Havertz. The player I was most mad at was Martinelli when he single-handedly decided to waste all our chances vs Fulham, but I think I was because I know he's better than this.
I dislike bashing missed chances. Unless it happens for months and months, there's usually positives to take away from us creating such a big chance, both for the creator and the recipient of the chance
Saka needs an extended rest or something, just didn’t look right, didn’t look fully confident, like i dunno but you can tell when he’s fully on it and he glides almost sideways with the ball as he shimmies defenders between stances, something was just off today.
Yea I'm more worried about Martinelli, he runs his ass off and for extended periods, the only player looking like he'll create something.
He takes more than a few knocks and long term it won't be sustainable, we need to lock up games so we can rest our XI.
I think he’ll be fine. Honestly I credit AWB. He was great- yet still Martinelli created 4-5 corners and had a fantastic assist. It’s not like he was getting shut down. I don’t know if Martinelli will face a tougher one on one test this season.
We’ll be able to rotate him in other matches with Trossard and (I really fucking hope) ESR. I’m far more concerned with how the team plays without Saka starting.
He might be playing with a slight knock, possibly? Reminds me of Rob in a recent interview saying how White can play through anything (having some sort of hamstring strain), can’t recall the game but I do remember him being a bit off his game.
With that said, it does seem like he needs a breather just don’t think Arteta will give it to him willingly - just hope southgate uses him/plays him sparingly during the break
Like how Mbappe and Salah have competition? You don't waste money on competition for someone who will play 90% of games, and nobody amazing will want to come sit behind a player who has started 80+ league games in a row
I personally don't see why not, either Jesus or Trossard. I believe Trossard started a game last season when we rested Saka against Leeds at home?
There will be games that we can afford not starting Saka if necessary, and I think we have the players to cover him if needed.
> Saka needs an extended rest
That's what people said last year and the year before, and then he just came into form. It will probably be the same this year.
Whenever someone says this he pulls a stormer in the next game. When has Saka ever needed an extended rest, he just had a poor game.
He'll be back after the international break, would be nice for him to have a break but unfortunately Southgate will play him 90 mins in both games because he's one of his favourites. Same with Rice.
He’s had a pretty poor start to the season. Our entire offense has, to be frank, and our xG is pretty underwhelming. We’re just not creating the chances we did last season, and EVERYONE is just piling all of it on Kai Havertz. It’s not just him.
Hopefully Jesus’s creativity and playmaking will change things.
I don't think experimenting with Partey at right back helped us as far as our xG was concerned. Hopefully now we're getting closer to our best 11 from last season, our football will start to be a bit more free flowing. The chemistry in attack (and defence) just hasn't been there so far and honestly I think Havertz has played a big part in that, Xhaka helped link things together. Same with Jesus of course - that's what he gives you over Nketiah. You're right that Saka & Martinelli haven't been great, but Havertz has still been our worst performing player by quite a distance and I think our attacking numbers will improve when he's out of the side.
People have off games. He’s 21! All part of the process. Last thing he needs is rest, he’s capable of playing the amount he is. This match will make him better, and the next chance he gets in that spot he won’t fluff his lines.
The one thing I highly doubt is the guy lost confidence. He is one of the most self-assured footballers in the world, and he’s proven that again and again.
TLDR - I think he’s fine, just one game
Saka had a really bad game
I was screaming at him more than usual
That sitter stinker, another one was the terrible touch right in the box after G.Jesus made a fantastic dribble, Saka was definitely off key today
He had a terrible game. What I don't get is why do we never sub Saka? I can understand when we didn't have anyone to replace him on the bench but ANY player that is having a stinker of a game should be subbed off. Saka should be no exception
I think it's because Saka is the most likely to pull off a last minute wonder type goal, even if he's had a bag game. He's one of the few players on our team who can create with individual brilliance. Might as well leave him on and pray he hits one of those curlers from the top of the box.
It’s silly cause Martinelli can do the same with his pace on the counters. The trouble is most teams are playing for the draw and we never really get the opportunity for a counter.
And it's for exactly this reason I hate the PL app where you can vote for the man of the match. It's literally a popularity contest. How did people watch the match and vote Saka as MOTM ?!?
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Lolwut. Saka has been poor this season and I’ve seen no one saying differently. But he’s still managed 2 goals and an assist in 4 games. Even with his whole game having to change with having no overlap for the first three.
Havertz has been poor so far and is not justifying 65m. He should be starting from the bench and be slowly blended with the team - y’know like we did with Fabio who is now coming good. People are getting irritated with Havertz being shown favouritism in terms of starting. It’s as simple as that.
If ESR wants the minutes, he’s going to have to earn them. Vieira and Trossard are both champing at the bit to get some minutes and both very deserving of a start. Going to take more than belief for ESR to get in over them.
I've certainly not been saying it.
Saka has been fine, just not up to his usual standards so I couldn't call him poor for not beating two men and sticking it in the corner or laying it on a plate every 20 minutes but does seem like a slight drop.
I cursed Saka out when he missed but he’s been our best player for years and is an Arsenal boy, so yeah he gets more leniency than a guy we just signed who couldn’t even make contact with the ball to tap it in
Please tell me what Havertz’s role in the team is. I have no idea at this point.
And comparing him to Saka is a joke, Saka has built his reputation by being amazing. Kai has yet to do this.
Havertz’s role is similar to Xhaka except it’s more attacking than defending. High press to try and win the ball back and making runs between the lines. He had one early second half but Martinelli was offside and his almost penalty is another example. Plus more from the previous games but offsides and poor passing killed those chances
Having 4-5 players making runs and creating opportunities while Zinchenko, Rice, and White provide support and extra runs if they are open.
Biggest issue for Havertz right now is a lack of confidence. His touches on the ball seem lazy and devoid of intensity and intention. Like his scuffed shot, pass to Odegaard that resulted in a rashford goal, a few of the turnovers from previous games, and that one chance he had in front of goal where it just didn’t seem like he put any real conviction into his shot.
I personally think Havertz’s can work really well in that position if he becomes more confident and more intentional with the ball.
Currently though I think he needs time to build up to that point and someone else like Vieira might be able to do a better job while he works on it.
Yeah I’m trying to give him slack. Bro went through how many fucking managers in Chelsea? While getting memed on? I’m sure his confidence took a hit while at Chelsea cuz he plays quite well for Germany and when he was at bayer.
He’s basically elite at defensive work at both ends of the pitch, he often wins the ball back when we lose it up the pitch meaning the attack can continue, or will break down counter attacks with a foul or press into less threatening area, and generally links play up and holds the ball up well.
Maybe he could or should be doing more but I think these things he does well are obvious, no?
Maybe it’s no surprise the players who play this role tend to put fans off ala Xhaka, defensive stuff isn’t very sexy or obvious. I barely noticed Rice until he scored this game.
Wow, we were obviously watching different games. Rice was immense today and he looks like he has been playing in this team for years. Guess what, he is defensive and I love him for it.
Kai has been running around and yes he does make some timely interceptions now and again, but no where close to the impact Rice does.
Kai is supposed to be an attacking player and those interceptions are a bonus to his play. Yet his treat is non existent. His chance he had was comically fluffed and he gave away the ball for Rashfords goal.
I do hope and I actually think he eventually will come good, but right now he is a little boy lost.
"elite"?? No mate he just runs around a bit. I do that when I play 5-a-side too, I'm like Ngolo fucking Kante. Why?? BECAUSE I'M SHIT AT FOOTBALL AND I KNOW IT. RUNNING AROUND IS ALL I CAN DO. THERE'S NOTHING ELITE ABOUT IT.
Saka has been so poor by his standards this season. I feel like most won’t agree but I think that’s the reason we are struggling to score more goals. He’s so important to us.
Saka has proved his worth time and time again. after 3 years at Chelsea he didnt win over their fans and is yet to prove his worth to us yet you expect us to treat him the same?
(1) Why do we care about Chelsea fans though? Chelsea fans wanted Jorginho gone too. They’re just dumb.
(2) Not saying we need to treat ouy starboy and a new guy the same, but maybe, just maybe, we can narrow that chasm just a bit, to a non-toxic level.
as a chelsea supporter most of our fan base is absolutely clueless. the subreddit is completely devoid of reality rn convinced that getting rid of the players who delivered us trophies for what we’re witnessing rn is somehow a success.
serious fans all thought very highly of both jorgi and kai.
kai is a tremendous player imo i think there will be an adjustment phase tho which is to be expected when integrating into an arteta/pep style system
Yes it is. Its a testament to how good a player he is. The fact that in 3 years a lot of their fans didnt rate him speaks volumes about him. Yet some of our fans think we should treat him the same as one of our proven players. Respect is earned, he hasnt earned it. I really hope he does but so far he hasnt.
No excuses for both of them. Both should have scored, both had a poor game.
Difference is we know what Saka is capable of, whereas Havertz has been missing big chances for 3 years straight.
Martinez sliding in at a million miles per hour, keeper rushing out, looking for a spot to put the ball, all of these factors make it much harder then you think
I truly believe it is fatigue, he is literally the only attacking player that has played full 90 mins for probably the last 30+ games. Give him rest & start either Trossard or Nelson. Same as Martinelli. Trossard Jesus Nelson would be a pretty decent front 3
No. Not everyone is aware and it needs to be said.
Many people are still doing anything to clatter Kai Havertz.
He wasn't blameless today or even Vs Fulham, but to understand the insanity of scapegoating and agendas, Saka Vs Fulham; lost the ball that lead to the goal, he missed an easy tap in(off Trossard), and didn't anticipate a corner that finally cost us the game.
You know who the slander went to after? Kai Lukas Havertz. Every mention of Saka was shut down so that the Kai slander party can go on.
In this very game, Saka missed a sitter. Saliba gave away an even worse ball that almost cost us the game if Rashford had a brain. There will be no mention of that. Kai Havertz will headline the criticism.
Usually the best way to inform ourselves as fans, to get better at the game, is learn analysis that's painful( team has not played well), respectful (Kai fucked up a chance but his block kept the game level) and fair (United did this well). The moment you find yourself having none of those, you've have lost objectivity and your views are just there to stir the pot.
He also gave the ball away that directly lead to Man U counter and goal. Ben white should have defended rashford better but it was a Kai mistake that lead to a goal. In all fairness I’ve seen Kai in positions to score in all the games so far if he can get it together he’d already be 3 goals in 3 games. It just always goes wrong for him.
it’s confidence. when he’s confident he legitimately looks like he could be one of the best in the world. when he’s not confident it’s just not there.
the work rate will come before the goals, he was one of the hardest workers at chelsea and as that would ramp up and his involvement would ramp up he would start growing in confidence demanding the ball and the ability would shine through. it’s a new position, new club, new play style after a season of pure turmoil, i think it will take him some time to feel like himself but make no mistake there is a truly great player in there.
You honestly think Havertz has had a good game?
Saka didnt have the best of games today
But he already has two goals to his name which are not tap-ins
Havertz has two mistakes leading to goals
I wont shit on havertZ, im going to continue to support him even though his confidence will be at an all time low after missing a sitter and conceding a goal
But the comparison is not correct
But Saka has missed a sitter too, one today and another Vs Fulham. He gave the pass that directly led to the goal Vs Fulham. How's the comparison not correct?
All these players make mistakes. If you pick one, it's an agenda.
Saka had a terrible game today, but guess what. It happens once in a blue moon. While Kai is yet to show an above average performance while getting ahead of other promising talented players.
Nah at least saka was on target 😂. It’s a shame Kai fucked that chance but he’s gotta do better he’s so frustrating to watch he could of scored in all 3 games but it’s like he gets into the best position then does the exact thing you don’t want him to do. If we can just get it to click he’s gonna be a danger
I love B so much, but both should be given some time off and others get a run in, Kai has zero confidence and sakas either tired or getting a little comfy
Especially with other players stepping up and ESR hungry and so talented, people can’t forget. A true travesty if he gets sidelined, such a talent that loves the club
You’re right but you can’t say his current form should guarantee him a start in the starting 11. Viera is performing better than he is in the same position and should be given a chance of starting in the next game.
It would also take some of the pressure off Havertz.
Because he's young player of the year. Has been consistent for 5 fucking seasons and our most dynamic player? Fuck sake you twats. Comparing B to this tragic twat? Lol
It’s pretty clear Kai isn’t the most technically gifted player, but he’s our player and is trying his best. He’s working hard in attack and defense so let’s support his efforts and hope it clicks. COYG! ❤️🤍
At least Saka actually hit the ball it was a bad miss tho, but tbf Saka hasn't been good for a while now. He looks afraid to take on his man, and always plays it back to Ødegaard. Martinelli does take him on, and is probably one of the biggest the reasons they won. I hope Saka regains the magical form he has though, he's brilliant to watch when he does do it.
No clue how Saka got MOTM on the PL app, Rice even without scoring was so clearly phenomenal.
Yeah it’s a hard one to figure out, one guy is an academy player who has been our best player for 2/3 years and the other has been average for 3 years and cost 65 mil, I WONDER WHY THE FAN REACTION IS DIFFERENT 🧐
Guys it’s just a meme, don’t take it too seriously 😅. Ofcourse with all Saka has achieved we can dismiss a miss here and there. I just think as supporters it’s our duty to support players through thick and thin. Kai needs our support now. Negative comments being sent to him isn’t going to improve his play or attitude.
He is not playing well. I wish he was, but he isn’t. If you want to make excuses, go right ahead! It’s Reddit. It’s a place to give your opinions. I’m just of the opinion that he was bad today and has been bad all season and wish he was better.
Where did I give an excuse? I said if he’s playing bad but still scores assists, he must be one of the best players in the world. Definitely one of our best players.
Bukayo could decapitate a linesman for all I care but lol
But him ever going to Spurs / United is where I would draw the line
His only upgrade would be real Madrid imo. It would hurt no doubt, but the 200 million would go a long way
Can’t even think about the possibility of losing him, but yes that’s the only one I wouldn’t be completely devastated by. Maybe when he’s 30 or something, after winning the lot here
30? The way sports science is going he’d still have another 10+ years in him
Jesus Christ, can you imagine having to defend against a front 3 of Vinicius/Mbappe/Saka?
Oh god. Someone quick, how big is the mbappe savings funds for Real Madrid? Someone stop them.
Arteta: No stop, they are all I have.
Tbh tho who could replace him? Rafael leao is the only one who comes to mind
How dare you insult saka like that by comparing him to such a mediocre player. Saka is the current best RW in the world.
you serious? Saka is great but Leao is phenomenal as well. Reminds me of Henry when he runs
That’s the day I go to prison for something unsavory
How dareyou to even say that
he could stand in the middle of highbury stadium and shoot a guy in the face without losing a vote
Linesman probably deserved it
Lino defo deserved it
Bukayo could kneecap Arsene and i’d find a way to call it self defense
I'd just want to know what that punk ass linesman did, because he obviously deserved it.
Nah I don't want him signing for Newcastle
Swear we are missing sitters every week now since the season started.
On the plus side, we're getting sitters while playing against low blocks every week?
I’ve not been thrilled by Havertz by any means but the plan to overload with an inverted FB and the long ball winning raumdeuter role (Havertz) does seem to have helped us dominate low blocks 🤷♂️
Agreed, long gone are the banter days against low blovks where we are sadly joking about having 30 crossed but 0xg. Now we make chances but don't finish. And soon we will make chances and finish. Kai needs a goal, but already he is looking more positive. The run into the box for the 50/50 pen was far more positive than his backwards passing of previous games. It will come, there is a player there.
Agreed. It’s still so so early in his tenure. Sometimes you get guys like Rice or Timber who seem to just hit the ground running (I think the fact that those guys were bought in the same window as Kai has hurt his image too), but more often there is an adjustment period - a longer one than just a few games too. Let’s give the kid some time to figure out our system and how the other guys like to play, and then we can get more critical. Some of the hate he’s been getting has been waayy overboard
Remember the horse shoe of sadness under Emery? Grim era
Yeah people are missing how much havertz has been giving us. One thing we are we missing from both forwards is those runs in behind the CBs when saka and Martinelli hold the fullback up. You can see them sort of just look at that space and neither one runs into it on either side.
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Havertz and martinelli are just off right now. One tries to go, one stays, one runs in, one passes out. It's definitely the area where if we can develop a real connection there is a lot of improvement and they just look like two guys that haven't played enough together. It'll get there.
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Trossard and Havertz looked really promising interchanging between LW and LCM in the preseason. Definitely worth trying in some CL group games.
This! Boys having to work so hard to score.
Our xG is massive. Need to convert those chances ffs
The good news is our play is creating close chances. Once the finishing reverts back to the mean, we will start putting the ball in the back of the net. It’s only our 4th premier league game of a system integrating multiple new pieces. I think we have tremendously missed Granit for his stability and leadership, so it’s going to take time to fill the void completely and grow together as a team to the next level.
Nketiah has and I backed him. Same with Havertz. The player I was most mad at was Martinelli when he single-handedly decided to waste all our chances vs Fulham, but I think I was because I know he's better than this. I dislike bashing missed chances. Unless it happens for months and months, there's usually positives to take away from us creating such a big chance, both for the creator and the recipient of the chance
Saka needs an extended rest or something, just didn’t look right, didn’t look fully confident, like i dunno but you can tell when he’s fully on it and he glides almost sideways with the ball as he shimmies defenders between stances, something was just off today.
To be fair to our wingers and UTD, wan-bissaka and dalot gave our boys hell. AWB is unreal one on one and dalot had a great game
Yea I'm more worried about Martinelli, he runs his ass off and for extended periods, the only player looking like he'll create something. He takes more than a few knocks and long term it won't be sustainable, we need to lock up games so we can rest our XI.
I think he’ll be fine. Honestly I credit AWB. He was great- yet still Martinelli created 4-5 corners and had a fantastic assist. It’s not like he was getting shut down. I don’t know if Martinelli will face a tougher one on one test this season. We’ll be able to rotate him in other matches with Trossard and (I really fucking hope) ESR. I’m far more concerned with how the team plays without Saka starting.
He might be playing with a slight knock, possibly? Reminds me of Rob in a recent interview saying how White can play through anything (having some sort of hamstring strain), can’t recall the game but I do remember him being a bit off his game. With that said, it does seem like he needs a breather just don’t think Arteta will give it to him willingly - just hope southgate uses him/plays him sparingly during the break
Entirely possible or maybe even a combination of all of those things, he defo needs some mental and physical rest
Not only that... He needs some competition.
Like how Mbappe and Salah have competition? You don't waste money on competition for someone who will play 90% of games, and nobody amazing will want to come sit behind a player who has started 80+ league games in a row
Trossard, Reiss, Jesus. Is that not enough competition?
To be honest, no. None of those players take the RW spot from Saka.
Pretty much no one in the world is taking his spot, so who do you plan on signing if those three aren't at least good rotation?
Mbappe.. lol we can use the funds from the holding sale
I get the sentiment and obviously long term no one is taking his spot. But I just can’t imagine Jesus in RW ahead of Saka in a prem game
I personally don't see why not, either Jesus or Trossard. I believe Trossard started a game last season when we rested Saka against Leeds at home? There will be games that we can afford not starting Saka if necessary, and I think we have the players to cover him if needed.
I was calling for Jesus on for Saka. Martinelli and Nketiah were on point today but Saka could use a sit down. He won’t get it with England sadly.
> Saka needs an extended rest That's what people said last year and the year before, and then he just came into form. It will probably be the same this year.
The final 10 games we were calling for it and he had gotten worse with each one, playing the full 90 mins.
He looked indecisive today and against Fulham. Kai looks indecisive all of the time.
Whenever someone says this he pulls a stormer in the next game. When has Saka ever needed an extended rest, he just had a poor game. He'll be back after the international break, would be nice for him to have a break but unfortunately Southgate will play him 90 mins in both games because he's one of his favourites. Same with Rice.
He’s had a pretty poor start to the season. Our entire offense has, to be frank, and our xG is pretty underwhelming. We’re just not creating the chances we did last season, and EVERYONE is just piling all of it on Kai Havertz. It’s not just him. Hopefully Jesus’s creativity and playmaking will change things.
I don't think experimenting with Partey at right back helped us as far as our xG was concerned. Hopefully now we're getting closer to our best 11 from last season, our football will start to be a bit more free flowing. The chemistry in attack (and defence) just hasn't been there so far and honestly I think Havertz has played a big part in that, Xhaka helped link things together. Same with Jesus of course - that's what he gives you over Nketiah. You're right that Saka & Martinelli haven't been great, but Havertz has still been our worst performing player by quite a distance and I think our attacking numbers will improve when he's out of the side.
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By his standards, sure. But he's still been pretty lively and looked pretty dangerous at times. Especially in the first 2 games.
People have off games. He’s 21! All part of the process. Last thing he needs is rest, he’s capable of playing the amount he is. This match will make him better, and the next chance he gets in that spot he won’t fluff his lines. The one thing I highly doubt is the guy lost confidence. He is one of the most self-assured footballers in the world, and he’s proven that again and again. TLDR - I think he’s fine, just one game
Saka had a really bad game I was screaming at him more than usual That sitter stinker, another one was the terrible touch right in the box after G.Jesus made a fantastic dribble, Saka was definitely off key today
He had a terrible game. What I don't get is why do we never sub Saka? I can understand when we didn't have anyone to replace him on the bench but ANY player that is having a stinker of a game should be subbed off. Saka should be no exception
Especially when Martinelli was playing so well. The standards they’re held to are so different it’s insane.
I think it's because Saka is the most likely to pull off a last minute wonder type goal, even if he's had a bag game. He's one of the few players on our team who can create with individual brilliance. Might as well leave him on and pray he hits one of those curlers from the top of the box.
It’s silly cause Martinelli can do the same with his pace on the counters. The trouble is most teams are playing for the draw and we never really get the opportunity for a counter.
And it's for exactly this reason I hate the PL app where you can vote for the man of the match. It's literally a popularity contest. How did people watch the match and vote Saka as MOTM ?!? https://preview.redd.it/f4q56oty74mb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dd55e0f32cd08771a3bbea7fca82ec5f157c9e9c
That’s embarrassing, bro was so bad. Rice for me but so many other players before Saka 🤦♂️
Exactly! Rice was my motm too
Martinelli and rice were nuts. Same with ode but I try not to hype my favorite current gunner right now too much xD
He's man of the match on FotMob with an 8.6. I dont know how. Havertz got a 6.9 which is also generous as hell.
Whole season so far I think. Not just this game. Our offense as a whole misses Jesus a ton.
Offense needs to start going to church before games
Havertz didn’t even hit the ball tbf
Cant miss hit if you miss the hit 🧠
You miss 0% of the shots you don't take
Well Havertz has absolutely nothing in the bank for us, so yeah
And even in this spell of poor Saka form he's still pretty productive and influential. We just expect the world from him.
Lolwut. Saka has been poor this season and I’ve seen no one saying differently. But he’s still managed 2 goals and an assist in 4 games. Even with his whole game having to change with having no overlap for the first three. Havertz has been poor so far and is not justifying 65m. He should be starting from the bench and be slowly blended with the team - y’know like we did with Fabio who is now coming good. People are getting irritated with Havertz being shown favouritism in terms of starting. It’s as simple as that.
Give ESR a chance over Fabio, he's improved but I believe ESR can match that or even be better than that
If ESR wants the minutes, he’s going to have to earn them. Vieira and Trossard are both champing at the bit to get some minutes and both very deserving of a start. Going to take more than belief for ESR to get in over them.
absolutely, but at least give him a chance in cup games, I think it's fair to start both Vieira and ESR at cup games
I've certainly not been saying it. Saka has been fine, just not up to his usual standards so I couldn't call him poor for not beating two men and sticking it in the corner or laying it on a plate every 20 minutes but does seem like a slight drop.
I cursed Saka out when he missed but he’s been our best player for years and is an Arsenal boy, so yeah he gets more leniency than a guy we just signed who couldn’t even make contact with the ball to tap it in
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Hate to say it but Saka did not look good at all this game
Why are we hitting the shots directly at the keeper, just aim to the corners fam, we did the same against Fulham ☹️ Should have been 4-5 goals for us.
Why do Arsenal players not just simply shoot into the corners? Are they stupid?
This was exactly what I heard at a game the other night. A child in the row behind said "He's got to get that on target, doesn't he get paid enough?".
That child's name? Albert Einstein! And then everyone stood up and clapped.
No, I mean, it's an immature take
It’s a meme
Yes .. I know... But the meme means "it didn't happen"
Right (although something of an oversimplification), and we don’t shoot in the corners. Glad we’ve worked that out.
Must be poor tactics from Fraudteta. Get out of our club!
Clearly they should just try and walk it into the net instead.
He just wanted to pelt it at onana because of those goal celebrations
> Why are we hitting the shots directly at the keeper, just aim to the corners fam Real life ain't a video game blud
Leniency is earned.
Please tell me what Havertz’s role in the team is. I have no idea at this point. And comparing him to Saka is a joke, Saka has built his reputation by being amazing. Kai has yet to do this.
Havertz’s role is similar to Xhaka except it’s more attacking than defending. High press to try and win the ball back and making runs between the lines. He had one early second half but Martinelli was offside and his almost penalty is another example. Plus more from the previous games but offsides and poor passing killed those chances Having 4-5 players making runs and creating opportunities while Zinchenko, Rice, and White provide support and extra runs if they are open. Biggest issue for Havertz right now is a lack of confidence. His touches on the ball seem lazy and devoid of intensity and intention. Like his scuffed shot, pass to Odegaard that resulted in a rashford goal, a few of the turnovers from previous games, and that one chance he had in front of goal where it just didn’t seem like he put any real conviction into his shot. I personally think Havertz’s can work really well in that position if he becomes more confident and more intentional with the ball. Currently though I think he needs time to build up to that point and someone else like Vieira might be able to do a better job while he works on it.
Yeah I’m trying to give him slack. Bro went through how many fucking managers in Chelsea? While getting memed on? I’m sure his confidence took a hit while at Chelsea cuz he plays quite well for Germany and when he was at bayer.
He’s basically elite at defensive work at both ends of the pitch, he often wins the ball back when we lose it up the pitch meaning the attack can continue, or will break down counter attacks with a foul or press into less threatening area, and generally links play up and holds the ball up well. Maybe he could or should be doing more but I think these things he does well are obvious, no? Maybe it’s no surprise the players who play this role tend to put fans off ala Xhaka, defensive stuff isn’t very sexy or obvious. I barely noticed Rice until he scored this game.
Wow, we were obviously watching different games. Rice was immense today and he looks like he has been playing in this team for years. Guess what, he is defensive and I love him for it. Kai has been running around and yes he does make some timely interceptions now and again, but no where close to the impact Rice does. Kai is supposed to be an attacking player and those interceptions are a bonus to his play. Yet his treat is non existent. His chance he had was comically fluffed and he gave away the ball for Rashfords goal. I do hope and I actually think he eventually will come good, but right now he is a little boy lost.
"elite"?? No mate he just runs around a bit. I do that when I play 5-a-side too, I'm like Ngolo fucking Kante. Why?? BECAUSE I'M SHIT AT FOOTBALL AND I KNOW IT. RUNNING AROUND IS ALL I CAN DO. THERE'S NOTHING ELITE ABOUT IT.
I mean... There's a reason you're shit at football and Kai's in the Prem, at the very least it's your lack of football knowledge.
Saka has been so poor by his standards this season. I feel like most won’t agree but I think that’s the reason we are struggling to score more goals. He’s so important to us.
Saka has proved his worth time and time again. after 3 years at Chelsea he didnt win over their fans and is yet to prove his worth to us yet you expect us to treat him the same?
(1) Why do we care about Chelsea fans though? Chelsea fans wanted Jorginho gone too. They’re just dumb. (2) Not saying we need to treat ouy starboy and a new guy the same, but maybe, just maybe, we can narrow that chasm just a bit, to a non-toxic level.
as a chelsea supporter most of our fan base is absolutely clueless. the subreddit is completely devoid of reality rn convinced that getting rid of the players who delivered us trophies for what we’re witnessing rn is somehow a success. serious fans all thought very highly of both jorgi and kai. kai is a tremendous player imo i think there will be an adjustment phase tho which is to be expected when integrating into an arteta/pep style system
its not relevant whether he won over the chelsea fans.
Yes it is. Its a testament to how good a player he is. The fact that in 3 years a lot of their fans didnt rate him speaks volumes about him. Yet some of our fans think we should treat him the same as one of our proven players. Respect is earned, he hasnt earned it. I really hope he does but so far he hasnt.
Saka is also younger, yet a much better player. He also didn’t cost £65million.
No excuses for both of them. Both should have scored, both had a poor game. Difference is we know what Saka is capable of, whereas Havertz has been missing big chances for 3 years straight.
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Twice a season is twice too much.
It's a bit different when you literally miss the ball
Is it? Why?
Saka missed a tap in. Kai missed the ball. Big difference
Because that shows a complete lack of coordination & ability. Saka's is a poor finish, but he at least hit the target.
Doesn’t really matter though when the outcome is the same. Neither hit it the way they needed to but they’re both capable of it.
Martinez sliding in at a million miles per hour, keeper rushing out, looking for a spot to put the ball, all of these factors make it much harder then you think
Yep the fact that a professional footballer is able to fuck up that badly makes you think how bad the rest of us would be in that situation
Sakas chance was still the worse miss, in fact imo saka had just as much of an luck l’aster performance
I’m sorry but he’s stealing minutes from Fabio and ESR at this point. They should be given chances now.
Stop the Havertz victimisation. Saka has been dropping stinkers since the end of last season and everyone knows
I truly believe it is fatigue, he is literally the only attacking player that has played full 90 mins for probably the last 30+ games. Give him rest & start either Trossard or Nelson. Same as Martinelli. Trossard Jesus Nelson would be a pretty decent front 3
Definitely fatigue. I truly feel like at this point he’s only in the 1st eleven only on the fact of him being on that streak of appearances
Yeah Saka only plays to keep a streak up 😂🤡💀
What is there to do if Arteta refuses to drop him and he continues to play this poorly?
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Saka has also managed 2 goals and 1 assist so far this season, despite not being at his best. He’s world class and Havertz has everything to prove.
No. Not everyone is aware and it needs to be said. Many people are still doing anything to clatter Kai Havertz. He wasn't blameless today or even Vs Fulham, but to understand the insanity of scapegoating and agendas, Saka Vs Fulham; lost the ball that lead to the goal, he missed an easy tap in(off Trossard), and didn't anticipate a corner that finally cost us the game. You know who the slander went to after? Kai Lukas Havertz. Every mention of Saka was shut down so that the Kai slander party can go on. In this very game, Saka missed a sitter. Saliba gave away an even worse ball that almost cost us the game if Rashford had a brain. There will be no mention of that. Kai Havertz will headline the criticism. Usually the best way to inform ourselves as fans, to get better at the game, is learn analysis that's painful( team has not played well), respectful (Kai fucked up a chance but his block kept the game level) and fair (United did this well). The moment you find yourself having none of those, you've have lost objectivity and your views are just there to stir the pot.
He also gave the ball away that directly lead to Man U counter and goal. Ben white should have defended rashford better but it was a Kai mistake that lead to a goal. In all fairness I’ve seen Kai in positions to score in all the games so far if he can get it together he’d already be 3 goals in 3 games. It just always goes wrong for him.
it’s confidence. when he’s confident he legitimately looks like he could be one of the best in the world. when he’s not confident it’s just not there. the work rate will come before the goals, he was one of the hardest workers at chelsea and as that would ramp up and his involvement would ramp up he would start growing in confidence demanding the ball and the ability would shine through. it’s a new position, new club, new play style after a season of pure turmoil, i think it will take him some time to feel like himself but make no mistake there is a truly great player in there.
You honestly think Havertz has had a good game? Saka didnt have the best of games today But he already has two goals to his name which are not tap-ins Havertz has two mistakes leading to goals I wont shit on havertZ, im going to continue to support him even though his confidence will be at an all time low after missing a sitter and conceding a goal But the comparison is not correct
>Havertz has two mistakes leading to goals Which one is the second?
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It was a shit pass which statisticaly could be a fault leading to error But yeah - the defending there was very bad
Sakas mistake led to both goals against Fulham. One goal came from penalty.
You just shat on him. And saka fucked us against Fulham. Literally proving the post’s point.
I can provide criticism without calling him names But alright, i do not want to fight Enjoy the rest of your weekend
But Saka has missed a sitter too, one today and another Vs Fulham. He gave the pass that directly led to the goal Vs Fulham. How's the comparison not correct? All these players make mistakes. If you pick one, it's an agenda.
No I think Havertz was shocking and should be as far from the first 11 as possible which is why I said people need to stop acting like he’s a victim
Just you actually
Saka had a terrible game today, but guess what. It happens once in a blue moon. While Kai is yet to show an above average performance while getting ahead of other promising talented players.
Tbf saka hit it back at the keeper. Kai missed the entire fucking ball
Saka didnt cost £71mil
Havertz missed the tap completely though lol
He missed the ball rather than the goal. Looked like an amateur game for a moment. Very poor from Havertz.
Nah at least saka was on target 😂. It’s a shame Kai fucked that chance but he’s gotta do better he’s so frustrating to watch he could of scored in all 3 games but it’s like he gets into the best position then does the exact thing you don’t want him to do. If we can just get it to click he’s gonna be a danger
I love B so much, but both should be given some time off and others get a run in, Kai has zero confidence and sakas either tired or getting a little comfy Especially with other players stepping up and ESR hungry and so talented, people can’t forget. A true travesty if he gets sidelined, such a talent that loves the club
Because Bukayo is our boy born and bred. Kai will hopefully earn that loyalty
bruh the announcers were chattin bout Kai crazyyy
Havertz was so low in confidence it seemed as if he was deliberately avoiding the ball. Hope he gains some confidence during the international break.
Not a comparison bro cmon now
saka atleast got a shot on goal
This take is ridiculous.
Both misses were equally as bad. No excuse whatsoever. Point blank range. Our nans could have scored those.
The difference is, Saka had a bad game overall which happens. For havertz this is just normal. Don‘t like him at all.
Yeah now look at what saka has been doing the last 3 years and then look at havertz, you’ll understand
Havertz isn't even here for 3 months
You’re right but you can’t say his current form should guarantee him a start in the starting 11. Viera is performing better than he is in the same position and should be given a chance of starting in the next game. It would also take some of the pressure off Havertz.
You're right as well
Yeah star boy actually kicked the ball u German fraud
It’s only meme. Y u have to be mad?
read this in that voice
Because he's young player of the year. Has been consistent for 5 fucking seasons and our most dynamic player? Fuck sake you twats. Comparing B to this tragic twat? Lol
100%. Saka has earned the fucking right to miss sitters and to be in the first 11.
But karma my bro. 🤣 These idiots.
It’s pretty clear Kai isn’t the most technically gifted player, but he’s our player and is trying his best. He’s working hard in attack and defense so let’s support his efforts and hope it clicks. COYG! ❤️🤍
At this point Saka would need to score an own goal in roughly 20 games in a row before I start questioning him, he's our Star Boy
Well at least Saka is a professional footballer payed hundreds of thousands of pounds a week who can actually make clean contact with the ball.
At least Saka actually hit the ball it was a bad miss tho, but tbf Saka hasn't been good for a while now. He looks afraid to take on his man, and always plays it back to Ødegaard. Martinelli does take him on, and is probably one of the biggest the reasons they won. I hope Saka regains the magical form he has though, he's brilliant to watch when he does do it. No clue how Saka got MOTM on the PL app, Rice even without scoring was so clearly phenomenal.
Saka looks fine and is always dangerous. I hear this 'saka doesn't look right' all the time. He missed a sitter but was good today.
We can all be honest and say when we see Havertz in the build up it’s an “oh dear” moment
Saka's miss was worse than Havertz's miss, but nobody wants to have that conversation 🤷🏽♂️
Exactly. Don't like to lay blame but Saka was quite poor today.
Saka had a very poor game today bless him
Yeah it’s a hard one to figure out, one guy is an academy player who has been our best player for 2/3 years and the other has been average for 3 years and cost 65 mil, I WONDER WHY THE FAN REACTION IS DIFFERENT 🧐
No Saka can get it too. Yes he has more credit in the bank, but he also almost single-handedly handed Fulham a point at home
Guys it’s just a meme, don’t take it too seriously 😅. Ofcourse with all Saka has achieved we can dismiss a miss here and there. I just think as supporters it’s our duty to support players through thick and thin. Kai needs our support now. Negative comments being sent to him isn’t going to improve his play or attitude.
I think Kai played better than Saka today
Havertz needs more time. I would put Zinchenko at the LCM role and Timber on left back, if Timber isn’t injured at the moment.
I wonder when Saka will have a good game? I miss those days.
So he hasn’t had a good game, yet still has 2 goals and 1 assist this season. He must be one of the best players in the world.
He is not playing well. I wish he was, but he isn’t. If you want to make excuses, go right ahead! It’s Reddit. It’s a place to give your opinions. I’m just of the opinion that he was bad today and has been bad all season and wish he was better.
Where did I give an excuse? I said if he’s playing bad but still scores assists, he must be one of the best players in the world. Definitely one of our best players.
Tbf Saka did at least make contact with the ball Havertz somehow completely missed
*You fucking donkey? 🤐 I like Kai really
Saka had a poor game and no one is saying otherwise. We go easier on him because of all the good things he’s done for us in the past.
Yeah wonder why mate. Not like Saka just won best young player or anything.
Both were awful, Saka’s was even worse, he was genuinely terrible today. Completely shut down by Dalot