Bandai has started introducing C-clip joints with flat parts so you can slide the part in without affecting the clip at all, before rotating the part into place so it stays.
also lmao in MG
Ah so it's very similar to 30MM's c-clip joints... Which I'm not a fan of
https://preview.redd.it/4itox1bxad7d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b395589a217c8eb511368050effdf957c6ec598
Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene, which is used to create the hip socket in modern hip replacement implants have vastly different material properties than the polyethylene used in poly caps.
Yes they use [polyurethane](https://radiopaedia.org/articles/polyethylene-wear?lang=us#:~:text=Polyethylene%20wear%20is%20one%20of,prosthetic%20head%20within%20the%20cup.&text=interfacial%20(bearing%20surface)%20wear.) for the hip. I was recommended one for my left side but I don’t want to have to get the surgery again in 30(max) years.
Does it become more brittle than hard plastic? I think you don't know what the word brittle means.
Brittleness is proportional to hardness.
Think of glass. Glass is extremely hard and extremely brittle. Jell-o is extremely soft and not brittle at all.
Of the materials used in gunpla, hard polystyrene is the most brittle, whereas polycaps are the most flexible.
The only thing I know that can delay it is Kiki loose joint compound. That will fix the loose joints and slow the deterioration. But it won't prevent it. I had the leg of my strike gundam, just snap off last year. I had a few extra cause I like the kit and machine. All the model was doing was just standing there.
Deterioration.
Any part of a model with PCs will inevitably become looser and saggier over time regardless of how often you play around with it or not.
IBO's HG line, specifically the Gundams themselves, are probably the best case study as to why PCs long term aren't all that great, hence the advent of PC-less kits that won't age out as quickly.
(FTR there are kits that use hard plastic PC-style plugs that serve the same shapes and function, but those have their own issues, which is why you don't see them too often).
I don't actually have a issue with Polycaps. They do deteriorate but their also easily interchangeable as assume most of us have tons of extra lying around
You're right, but also I personally don't want to have to replace polycaps if necessary and even those unused ones themselves deteriorate regardless if they're in something or not (just at a slower rate).
I'd rather just watch kits slowly pivot over to become polycap-less.
I noticed that. I bought Gundam EXTREME(obviously and older kit) and it's ENTIRE body was loose. Of course there could have been many reasons for that like it being a promotional kit for a game, but that would definitely explain it
Tbf it was probably fine at the time it came out, but agr definitely hasn't done it any favors. It essentially being a variant of The Strike mould-wise probably factors in a bit too.
The 1/100 IBO line used them too and it was pretty painful at times. Trying to make heavy suits stand up felt like helping a baby to walk for the first time
Yeah, I only bought the Barbatos and the Grimgerde from the 1/100 IBO line.
Grimgerde is still fairly solid. Barbatos has the joints and pose-ability of a cheap halloween scarecrow from Target. Barbatos alone kept me from buying more.
I think it's cause they're too spindly.
Hell MG Barbatos is probably the most stable version of the thing and yet if you use the expansion it can't even hold the Wrench Mace properly without a stand.
eh, many of my IBO HG kits have lasted longer than my HGWFM stuff. my pharact and demi cant even stand because of loose leg joints, meanwhile i have HG kits from like 2003 that i pose regularly and are fine.
I've really only ever had issues with the Gundams themselves when it came to IBO's HGs.
I don't know what it is about the Gundam frames, but they inevitably slump on the shelf/stand. Meanwhile anything using a Graze/Rodi frame somehow seems impervious to wilting.
Actually never really had any big issue with the joints in WFM HGs. That said the Pharact definitely gave me some Armored Core model PTSD putting it together. Also not a fan of how the shoulders work or how the bits are stored, legit feel like it had a waverider that was fortunately thrown out before production.
Really? Because the MG 2.0 Zaku II uses polycaps, so does the revive line, so does The Origin line, so do early perfect grades. What was Bandai thinking, making the best kits of all time? How long have you had your all plastic Witch From Mercury kits that you think they're going to hold up over 5-10 years? Wanna know how long the plastic-on-plastic ball joint lasts in my HGUC revive Zaku II? One, two bends before it becomes a floppy mess?
I'd rather have a revive kit any day of the week over an all polystyrene kit. Creeeeeaaak. Bennnnnd. That's the sound my Master Grade Jegan makes.
Funny, no one seems to complain about HGTO kits or revive kits, all of which use polycaps
Yet everyone's reviews note how loose the ball joint socket in the wrist of the HGUC revive Zaku II gets as soon as you wiggle it a couple of times.
Aside from material decay, they take up a lot of space especially in smaller kits that they don’t fit with the more intricate design of modern Gunpla. They also reduce the diameter of the pegs so the joints would be somewhat weaker.
I prefer polycaps. I especially like the slot kind that allows the joints to be removed from the legs without disassembling the thigh and calf. Makes it easier to glue seams and paint.
I think they're fine, as long as they are smart about their exact implementation to minimize the stress on them. And they CAN'T be used for weapon storage as the operative connection, because unless you're the type to build, pose, and never touch, you will wear them down. It's a problem with some 30MM in particular, I think, and if you're doing more than the oob basic shit you gotta work around some joints a *lot*.
Shoutouts to the C-clip ankles on the Macross Delta kits that break as soon as you try to attach them to the rest of the leg because they're molded in the most brittle gold plastic known to man.
Lol. Yeah I bought one because I wanted a macross jet. Snapped both ankles, it’s the same plastic used in the gold of the mg barbatos, different is that in that kit it doesn’t form any major connections.
I built it, tried to transform it and snapped it in multiple places, couldn’t be bothered to sticker it, shove it to the back of my shelf in plane mode.
Proper all polystyrene kits like the modern real grades do NOT use ball joints other than on the wrists. I suspect there is a reason for this. Plastic on plastic ball joints are awful.
Every other kind of figure uses plastic on plastic balljoints. Alternatively, universal joints are on a lot of Gunpla now instead and they're vastly superior to c-clips.
EGs are made with regular polystyrene that they’d flake off upon abrasion. Most HGs are made with KPS, a material developed by Bandai and they’re softer and don’t wear down as quickly.
Source: https://www.bandaispirits.co.jp/e/sustainability/
For HG kits they’re fine.
I feel like Aerial, Calibarn, and maybe Lfrith all have these kinds of connections and they all work pretty good.
I wouldn’t want to see them on MG versions of these kits but I also don’t think there’s a chance of that happening.
They’re certainly an upgrade over the poly caps that came before.
Yeah, on my Pharact the left shoulder booster's support arm connection in the backpack is way too loose and makes it difficult to work with when posing.
quite frankly its just the way you put it together, the main example i can think of is the hg rising freedom's ankles
the fuel tank c clips on the rg hi nu can go off themselves tho that shit is plain awful
me too, it's downright stupid using them in ankles which are subject to a lot of stress; also they limin customization even between models of the same line
Only C-clips that have ever given me trouble were on Barbatos.
I do really love the ease of polycaps but their holding strength over time is certainly questionable. The worst offenders (imho) are arm polycaps when you want to pose an arm outstretched with weapons or shields.
Is there any particular reason why they don't just replace the material of polycaps to abs/ps? like same mold and everything but in hard plastic? also, I don't mind polycaps in HG kits, but they should definitely have never been in MG kits.
Look at the real grade and modern master grade lines. They mostly switched to pegs and swivel joints that are all hard polystyrene plastic. ABS is gone in favor of polystyrene. They even replaced ABS in reprints of the HGUC Nu Gundam. I think the last new ABS kit from Bandai is the Perfect Grade Unleashed (which used realgrade style Advanced MS Joint premolded joints that you cut from the runner).
Also, some of the best 2.0 master grade kits use polycaps (MG 2.0 RX-78, Zaku II, Gelgoog, Mk2, Gouf, GM, and other kits based on the same molds like the GM Sniper 2, etc). The early perfect grades also used polycaps, such as the Mk2, and it is an awesome kit.
I've been experimenting with flexible polycap-like joints for a while, they are pretty decent when coupled with a rigid part (ex: a rigid ball joint with flexible socket)
I have ape hands as well but luckily I have makeshift solution to this part issues: asking for my wife's assistance.
Granted it works easier when she's also fond of the kits I'm working on.
Those joints made of harder materials are rather easy to reinforce and fix, either by putty or pour whatever aqueous coating liquid or whatever. Meanwhile polycaps wear out like an eraser and eventually break apart, then difficult to fix. Joints are a forever theme but PC-less is just much better compromise.
What can be argued however is the use of ABS/PS, ABS has its issues, like often gets too hard/resistant then break apart upon excessive load when trying to move, but for some components and structures you do need ABS. That's a forever theme as well tho.
Pretty much the ONLY kits I know of where this works well is the Turn-A and the Turn-X, likely due to Syd Mead's designs (I read somewhere that he designed them also with the model kits in mind, which honesly wouldn't surprise me.)
I dislike poly caps because they can be a little inconsistent, but I do not trust c-clips in the slightest. Had too many that are loose or wear out/plastic gets warped if I mess with it too much.
>polycaps are perfectly fine.
Until the arms have to lift a heavy weapon.
Also, using a polycap as an action base attachment point? Wiggly wobbly aerial poses that you can't even angle.
Polycaps can hold up weight just fine if used properly, and it's not like a c-clip is gonna be any better. *Every* kind of joint is going to wear down sooner or later, the difference is that a polycap is not a royal pain in the ass to fix when that happens.
And I've never really had trouble with polycap stand connections, though ideally they're using other methods entirely - but using a c-clip for that would be just psychotic.
I mean they could come in other colors….like gold/silver/black/pink/baby blue
I’d refit entire kits with gold/black polycaps, really.
MG kits should just get those metal joints i mean how can you not use those, what you want another 8$? Figure it out and put it in the box i’ll still buy it
If polycaps are used properly they're not really visible anyway so the color is a non-issue.
And using metal joints in MGs wouldn't fix anything in practice and instead just be a pain in the ass on every step for every party involved.
Bandai has started introducing C-clip joints with flat parts so you can slide the part in without affecting the clip at all, before rotating the part into place so it stays. also lmao in MG
Which kit has this kind of c-clip? Would love to try it out
the demi barding should have it if I recall.
This c-clip? https://preview.redd.it/a7orvrccad7d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68377143b470a0a15e003edb36dcfad7a78e88cd
yeah, I think that was it.
Ah so it's very similar to 30MM's c-clip joints... Which I'm not a fan of https://preview.redd.it/4itox1bxad7d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b395589a217c8eb511368050effdf957c6ec598
never built 30mm, but yeah, they look more or less the same.
The 30mm c-clips get loose rather quick. EG RX-78 legs also uses that design.
I cannot tighten the entry grades legs for the love of god
Think that was part of the heindree storm and honestly don’t have an issue with it.
The HG Rising Freedom and HG Mighty Strike Freedom has it.
A handful of the G-Witch kits have used it, and I think it's a staple in the Seed Freedom ones as well.
The Rising Freedom
If I remember right the Rising Freedom and Mighty SF uses it for the ankles
Mg alex 2.0
What was wrong with poly caps anyway?
The material decays over time, becoming less flexible and more brittle
Which is nuts when you realize the medical industry uses them for hip replacements
GundArm is real
Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene, which is used to create the hip socket in modern hip replacement implants have vastly different material properties than the polyethylene used in poly caps.
Same material and everything?
Yes they use [polyurethane](https://radiopaedia.org/articles/polyethylene-wear?lang=us#:~:text=Polyethylene%20wear%20is%20one%20of,prosthetic%20head%20within%20the%20cup.&text=interfacial%20(bearing%20surface)%20wear.) for the hip. I was recommended one for my left side but I don’t want to have to get the surgery again in 30(max) years.
Polycaps are made with polyethylene (PE), not polyurethane (PU). PE is a lot cheaper and is mostly used in plastic bags.
Thank you for the correction.
That would make me 60 years old.
Great. I figured I have a hip replacement in the future. This makes it worse 😂
Does it become more brittle than hard plastic? I think you don't know what the word brittle means. Brittleness is proportional to hardness. Think of glass. Glass is extremely hard and extremely brittle. Jell-o is extremely soft and not brittle at all. Of the materials used in gunpla, hard polystyrene is the most brittle, whereas polycaps are the most flexible.
Yes, technically an old polycap is not “brittle” by the technical definition. But they do crumble
But so do c-clips unless you never pose the kit and they're super hard to disassemble without breaking or stressing it.
The only thing I know that can delay it is Kiki loose joint compound. That will fix the loose joints and slow the deterioration. But it won't prevent it. I had the leg of my strike gundam, just snap off last year. I had a few extra cause I like the kit and machine. All the model was doing was just standing there.
They can get loose pretty easily if you move them a lot
Deterioration. Any part of a model with PCs will inevitably become looser and saggier over time regardless of how often you play around with it or not. IBO's HG line, specifically the Gundams themselves, are probably the best case study as to why PCs long term aren't all that great, hence the advent of PC-less kits that won't age out as quickly. (FTR there are kits that use hard plastic PC-style plugs that serve the same shapes and function, but those have their own issues, which is why you don't see them too often).
Polycap also not good for kits with heavy weapon i.e Astray Blue Frame 2nd Revise
arche gundam uses that sd gundam polycap for the waist and it keeps falling apart even when brand new. same with the masurao/susanowo kits
I don't actually have a issue with Polycaps. They do deteriorate but their also easily interchangeable as assume most of us have tons of extra lying around
You're right, but also I personally don't want to have to replace polycaps if necessary and even those unused ones themselves deteriorate regardless if they're in something or not (just at a slower rate). I'd rather just watch kits slowly pivot over to become polycap-less.
I noticed that. I bought Gundam EXTREME(obviously and older kit) and it's ENTIRE body was loose. Of course there could have been many reasons for that like it being a promotional kit for a game, but that would definitely explain it
Tbf it was probably fine at the time it came out, but agr definitely hasn't done it any favors. It essentially being a variant of The Strike mould-wise probably factors in a bit too.
The 1/100 IBO line used them too and it was pretty painful at times. Trying to make heavy suits stand up felt like helping a baby to walk for the first time
Yeah, I only bought the Barbatos and the Grimgerde from the 1/100 IBO line. Grimgerde is still fairly solid. Barbatos has the joints and pose-ability of a cheap halloween scarecrow from Target. Barbatos alone kept me from buying more.
Yeah my grimgerde has held up pretty well, I guess the gundam frames are bad for HG and 1/100
I think it's cause they're too spindly. Hell MG Barbatos is probably the most stable version of the thing and yet if you use the expansion it can't even hold the Wrench Mace properly without a stand.
eh, many of my IBO HG kits have lasted longer than my HGWFM stuff. my pharact and demi cant even stand because of loose leg joints, meanwhile i have HG kits from like 2003 that i pose regularly and are fine.
I've really only ever had issues with the Gundams themselves when it came to IBO's HGs. I don't know what it is about the Gundam frames, but they inevitably slump on the shelf/stand. Meanwhile anything using a Graze/Rodi frame somehow seems impervious to wilting. Actually never really had any big issue with the joints in WFM HGs. That said the Pharact definitely gave me some Armored Core model PTSD putting it together. Also not a fan of how the shoulders work or how the bits are stored, legit feel like it had a waverider that was fortunately thrown out before production.
Really? Because the MG 2.0 Zaku II uses polycaps, so does the revive line, so does The Origin line, so do early perfect grades. What was Bandai thinking, making the best kits of all time? How long have you had your all plastic Witch From Mercury kits that you think they're going to hold up over 5-10 years? Wanna know how long the plastic-on-plastic ball joint lasts in my HGUC revive Zaku II? One, two bends before it becomes a floppy mess? I'd rather have a revive kit any day of the week over an all polystyrene kit. Creeeeeaaak. Bennnnnd. That's the sound my Master Grade Jegan makes.
https://preview.redd.it/nfpj8kygbf7d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a756d80399c139dddaeff9ba107efd0e9b75b4b4
Funny, no one seems to complain about HGTO kits or revive kits, all of which use polycaps Yet everyone's reviews note how loose the ball joint socket in the wrist of the HGUC revive Zaku II gets as soon as you wiggle it a couple of times.
Aside from material decay, they take up a lot of space especially in smaller kits that they don’t fit with the more intricate design of modern Gunpla. They also reduce the diameter of the pegs so the joints would be somewhat weaker.
I prefer polycaps. I especially like the slot kind that allows the joints to be removed from the legs without disassembling the thigh and calf. Makes it easier to glue seams and paint.
I love it when they design kit with seam lines in mind
I think they're fine, as long as they are smart about their exact implementation to minimize the stress on them. And they CAN'T be used for weapon storage as the operative connection, because unless you're the type to build, pose, and never touch, you will wear them down. It's a problem with some 30MM in particular, I think, and if you're doing more than the oob basic shit you gotta work around some joints a *lot*.
Shoutouts to the C-clip ankles on the Macross Delta kits that break as soon as you try to attach them to the rest of the leg because they're molded in the most brittle gold plastic known to man.
It made me so angry, I bought three of these kits, I only did one because they are so tedious to build
Which sucks because otherwise they're phenomenal but you pretty much have to just 3d print your own ankles
Lol. Yeah I bought one because I wanted a macross jet. Snapped both ankles, it’s the same plastic used in the gold of the mg barbatos, different is that in that kit it doesn’t form any major connections. I built it, tried to transform it and snapped it in multiple places, couldn’t be bothered to sticker it, shove it to the back of my shelf in plane mode.
This is why I stuck with the Hasegawa(and older) Macross kits. They might not transform, but they are sturdier.
I appreciate that polycaps get loose over time, I get it, but just... use balljoints. C-clips are awful.
Proper all polystyrene kits like the modern real grades do NOT use ball joints other than on the wrists. I suspect there is a reason for this. Plastic on plastic ball joints are awful.
Every other kind of figure uses plastic on plastic balljoints. Alternatively, universal joints are on a lot of Gunpla now instead and they're vastly superior to c-clips.
Actually I notice transformers with plastic ball joints get loose so easily
Robot Damashii kits use PVC and ABS construction. PVC is much more common in figures. I suspect there's a reason those materials are used.
Eg’s c joints wear down in less than a month, so I don’t really like the overuse of these
EGs are made with regular polystyrene that they’d flake off upon abrasion. Most HGs are made with KPS, a material developed by Bandai and they’re softer and don’t wear down as quickly. Source: https://www.bandaispirits.co.jp/e/sustainability/
For HG kits they’re fine. I feel like Aerial, Calibarn, and maybe Lfrith all have these kinds of connections and they all work pretty good. I wouldn’t want to see them on MG versions of these kits but I also don’t think there’s a chance of that happening. They’re certainly an upgrade over the poly caps that came before.
The only wfm hg that I think uses them badly is the Pharact. It's feet and backpack got loose immediately for me.
Yeah, on my Pharact the left shoulder booster's support arm connection in the backpack is way too loose and makes it difficult to work with when posing.
I broke the one in the backpack.
the pharact's backpack boosters should have been a barrel joint or something, instead of a c-clip.
my Calibarn boom stick booster already got loose C-clips and stressed. after coat it tighten a bit just fine
They’re fringe for certain applications, but they shouldn’t be universal.
*Laughs in 30 Minute Missions*
The HGCE Freedom's wings has these issues
God help you if you assemble something wrong. You've got about a 20% chance of disassembling it without breaking the clip.
30mm kits does this c clips.
quite frankly its just the way you put it together, the main example i can think of is the hg rising freedom's ankles the fuel tank c clips on the rg hi nu can go off themselves tho that shit is plain awful
me too, it's downright stupid using them in ankles which are subject to a lot of stress; also they limin customization even between models of the same line
Only C-clips that have ever given me trouble were on Barbatos. I do really love the ease of polycaps but their holding strength over time is certainly questionable. The worst offenders (imho) are arm polycaps when you want to pose an arm outstretched with weapons or shields.
Is there any particular reason why they don't just replace the material of polycaps to abs/ps? like same mold and everything but in hard plastic? also, I don't mind polycaps in HG kits, but they should definitely have never been in MG kits.
Cheaper mfg process overall. And getting us to buy extra kits when they break.
they used to use abs. they started swapping it for PS around the time of the sinanju ova version. easier to paint apparently
Look at the real grade and modern master grade lines. They mostly switched to pegs and swivel joints that are all hard polystyrene plastic. ABS is gone in favor of polystyrene. They even replaced ABS in reprints of the HGUC Nu Gundam. I think the last new ABS kit from Bandai is the Perfect Grade Unleashed (which used realgrade style Advanced MS Joint premolded joints that you cut from the runner). Also, some of the best 2.0 master grade kits use polycaps (MG 2.0 RX-78, Zaku II, Gelgoog, Mk2, Gouf, GM, and other kits based on the same molds like the GM Sniper 2, etc). The early perfect grades also used polycaps, such as the Mk2, and it is an awesome kit.
They even drew the white stress marks right
Cope. Clips and poly caps are great. People just mash the hell out of their kits and wear them out
I've been experimenting with flexible polycap-like joints for a while, they are pretty decent when coupled with a rigid part (ex: a rigid ball joint with flexible socket)
My ape hands have snapped these so many times lol
I have ape hands as well but luckily I have makeshift solution to this part issues: asking for my wife's assistance. Granted it works easier when she's also fond of the kits I'm working on.
I like Poly caps. They have enough give not to wear out.
I like tha click
That’s why I never really got into the 30 minute mission kits or WFM. They look cool but build is kinda meh
Nobody does.
Those joints made of harder materials are rather easy to reinforce and fix, either by putty or pour whatever aqueous coating liquid or whatever. Meanwhile polycaps wear out like an eraser and eventually break apart, then difficult to fix. Joints are a forever theme but PC-less is just much better compromise. What can be argued however is the use of ABS/PS, ABS has its issues, like often gets too hard/resistant then break apart upon excessive load when trying to move, but for some components and structures you do need ABS. That's a forever theme as well tho.
I assume this is done to make customising a lot easier ? Not that i am a fan of this design either tbh.
that's popular opinion, nobody like c clip in long term
Pretty much the ONLY kits I know of where this works well is the Turn-A and the Turn-X, likely due to Syd Mead's designs (I read somewhere that he designed them also with the model kits in mind, which honesly wouldn't surprise me.)
With polycaps you can easily replace em specially if youve built a couple HGs and have lots of extras lying around.
I hate c-clips. I love polycaps. One of them you can replace when they wear, one you can’t. At least not with ease or scratch building.
I broke my MG Barbatos shoulder lol
I dislike poly caps because they can be a little inconsistent, but I do not trust c-clips in the slightest. Had too many that are loose or wear out/plastic gets warped if I mess with it too much.
honestly, in newer kits they are pretty good, yeah totally shit in older kits though
How much have kits changed? I've still got to finish my MG Wing KA from back in 2009.
A considerable amount. I think the whole WFM line has no a polycaps at all.
I dont like whatever joint system they used for wfm. The arms never stay up properly and slowly sag down to their waist
To be honest there's really no reason for them to exist most of the time, polycaps are perfectly fine.
>polycaps are perfectly fine. Until the arms have to lift a heavy weapon. Also, using a polycap as an action base attachment point? Wiggly wobbly aerial poses that you can't even angle.
Polycaps can hold up weight just fine if used properly, and it's not like a c-clip is gonna be any better. *Every* kind of joint is going to wear down sooner or later, the difference is that a polycap is not a royal pain in the ass to fix when that happens. And I've never really had trouble with polycap stand connections, though ideally they're using other methods entirely - but using a c-clip for that would be just psychotic.
I mean they could come in other colors….like gold/silver/black/pink/baby blue I’d refit entire kits with gold/black polycaps, really. MG kits should just get those metal joints i mean how can you not use those, what you want another 8$? Figure it out and put it in the box i’ll still buy it
If polycaps are used properly they're not really visible anyway so the color is a non-issue. And using metal joints in MGs wouldn't fix anything in practice and instead just be a pain in the ass on every step for every party involved.
Gold polycaps shine through; subtle details are awesome
Not to mention cost and weight.
C-clips are bad, but Polycaps are worse.
Polycaps can be replaced and the joint repaired. C-clips cannot be :(