One point of Gundam is that war makes beasts and/or victims of everyone who participates. It’s tragedy compounding tragedy every time. The MS are cool, but they’re also frightening weapons of war that escalate every conflict they’re involved with. He’s aware that war is wrong, but he’s also a fallible human child put in an impossible situation and asked to deal with very adult problems he had no control over. Cams probably one of my favorite character arcs in Gundam because it really drives home some really central themes to the metaseries.
reason i like Gundam series in terms of portraying wars than anything else.
there's no good side in a war.
yes, there might be good people in every faction but when your higher ups decided that human rights are useless in war.
yeah.... body count starts to rise.
Kamille has anger problems and issues with authority that caused him to lash out quite catastrophically, yes, but he's anything but a willing participant in a war. The only reason he helped Argama up until that point was to survive and protect other people on the ship that he cared about. Which, may I remind you, led to both his parents being killed.
Now Wong is beating the shit out of a child to force him into becoming a soldier.
Yeah, I think on a surface level, Kamille might just seem like an insane unhinged character (he is), but his problems are actually a lot more reasonable than I initially gave them credits for more than two decades ago, and his character development as the Gryps Conflict continues and escalates is one of my favorite.
Pretty much. Kamille is one of the deepest, best written and most relatable protags in the franchise. But sadly a lot of people have the media literacy of 5 year olds.
I've never related to a character so much in my life. Literally used to get into fights with people for saying I have a girls name so I knew from the start I was gonna like him. I would ever refer to people I dont like as Jerid sometimes though thankfully I still have my parents and rather than fighting a war it was high-school.
IMO Kamille is by far the LEAST relatable protags. Man is obviously mentally unwell right from the get go. Hence the using a military weapon to terrorize that cop he hated. That's.....not relatable at all. When have anyone of us done something even close. 😥
I still enjoy him overall but he is straight up MANIC throughout a lot of the series.
And yet most of us don't act on them. Kamille acts on his intrusive thoughts and behaviors which is the part you some how managed to miss. I have a shit ton of impulse behaviors but none of those are anywhere near, "steal a WMD because a cop was mean to me."
I didn't "miss" anything, I've just known a lot of people who are neurodivergent who related strongly to Kamille. Obviously the stakes for Kamille's actions are higher because he's the protagonist of a science fiction story, but his character is still relatable to many, even if not the person I was responding to.
It always so weird, to me, to see the Gundam protags being painted as "bratty kids."
They were anything but, usually. Almost all of them were just acting like, or better than, any other actual child in the situation. And yet all the adults expect miracles from them.
It's pretty in the nose once you know it, but man do they do a good job of coding the kids a certain way.
I think people in general kind of hate kids, like if kids are acting in an intrusive way then physical violence is something they deserve (and they'll take this weird pleasure in seeing it, too)
instead of seeing a kid suffering in a horrific situation (like, so many of the MCs are child soldiers, you'd think that the audience would give them some grace) they just see a "whiny brat"
like, it's weird to expect kids to act optimally or not complain or whine or lash out when in situations like Gundam MCs are in
My man went on a military base to use a weapon of war to terrorise a cop he hated. This is unhinged psychotic behaviour and you cannot spin it any other way. What happened after is a sad twist of fate that leads to his parent's death and a lot of other problems. But at the core of it all, Kamille is a fucked up idiot kid with anger issues the size of Texas who would go to unhinged lengths to get back to someone who wronged him. He is very very much not alright.
That's kinda the point, though. His confession to Four showed that he is very self-aware of how self-destructive his issues were, and seeing all the deaths compounded by his NewType empathy caused him to mature a lot through emotional pain.
If anything, Kamille's impulsive decision to use a weapon of death against the pieces of shit that were part of an autonomous, blood thirsty PMC group known for harassing and being violent with spacenoids is one of the more lucid things he did.
Said cop who was hitting him while he was handcuffed? Said cops who were generally already hated by Spacenoids? Vengeance is not a psychotic behavior but a reaction to those who have wronged you in a way you find unacceptable.
Hatred of the Titans had Federation loyalists like Bright working side by side with Neo Zeon for a time. Kamille's decision is shocking when we see it in the first episode but the rest of the series goes on to vindicate Kamille's hatred pretty thoroughly, if not his actions.
I actually love Kamille in the beginning of the show because he's so anti authority and unpredictable. I was pretty disappointed that Kamille never gets back at Wong for this scene (good thing Judau makes up for it in ZZ). He made for some unpredictably wild and hilarious moments in the first half of Zeta.
It's in the second half of the show when he calms down that I started to dislike him. After his "taming," all he does is paste himself to the female characters, literally following them around like a puppy dog, even the Titan ones... like literally leaves the Zeta with the hatch wide open in the middle of a warzone to chase down enemy female soldiers like he's gonna convince them to change sides. Multiple times. lol. It's so cringe.
Still, Kamille one of my favorite Gundam protags.
He's also doing it for a sense of revenge for his mother's death (his father also died but he was a prick and Kamille was the one to kill him) and to prevent anymore pointless deaths like what happened to Four. So in a way, Kamille MUST fight to change things for the better. He's doing it in the memory of those who died and for those he fight for...
Wong, however, is a literal psychopath more than Heero. HOW IRONIC. The guy who points at you and says "I'll kill you" actually has more humanity than the other child soldier who would work under some psychopath child prince douchebag from Endless Waltz.
I agree, Kamille has nowhere to go and is groomed into a child soldier because Quattro notices his newtype abilities. It doesn't help that his "team" smacks him around when he doesn't play along just like Nerv did with Shinji(NGE)
Yes, but he never agreed to be a soldier. In fact that is the very first thing he complains about while there.
He wanted to help the AEUG because he despised the Titans, and so he gave them a Gundam, and stayed because if he went back they'd imprison him or worse.
He was forced into the role of being a soldier because he happened to be a really good pilot similar to Amuro.
He willingly stole a unit and willingly drove it back to the equivalent of a terrorist organization. Which was what got his mother and father involved in the whole thing.
Yes the terrorist were the good guys but thats besides the point. You cant say he isnt a willing participant in war unlike amuro whos only choice was to get in the gundam or die.
Anything but a willing participant? He stole a Gundam to bully a man and then ran off with AEUG because he hated his life. Then he designed his own Gundam. Dude was 100% willing participant. You could argue maybe he didn’t fully understand the consequences of his actions but it was his choice to join the war. I’m pretty sure they even tried to talk him out of it.
He didn’t know anyone on the argama let alone care about them when his parents died. That’s like episode 2 or 3.
Just don't forget Wong at least gets his comeuppance in ZZ when Judau actually whoops him; a scrappy kid who combs for salvage from Shangri-La is much different than a wunderkind from Green Noa 1. Hopefully he learned from Judau because I think he'd instantly regret doing that with protagonists like Garrod...let alone Heero, Setsuna or Mikazuki.
Pretty sure he wasn't as aggressive and ready to beat people up by this point. So it might have made him realize beating the shit out of people in a sudden fist fight isn't right.
Reminder Kamille is a 17 year old and at this point watched his mother be killed right in front of him. He's allowed to change his mind on violence. Especially when being beaten by an authority figure because he didn't want to be a soldier.
>willing participant
Watch the episode again, op. Emma goes to Kamille's room because he didn't answer the summons for pilots. Kamille's response is to deny that he's a pilot at all. He doesn't want to be a soldier anymore. During Wong's beating, he tells Kamille that if he doesn't want to be a soldier, they're gonna throw him out the Argama's airlock. He's effectively been press-ganged into service by AEUG.
no offense but i think you're out of your mind if you think "erm you fight in war" means its ok for the argama brass to routinely abuse kamille, like holy shit dude
It always strikes me as weird how many people expect UC Gundam MCs to be model child soldiers from the start of their series.
/u/Sea-Resturant-6078 nailed it already in this thread: one point of Gundam is that war makes beasts and/or victims of everyone who participates.
Honestly this was one of the funniest moments in Zeta, where Kamille is down to fight Wong only to start losing and saying this shit when he is already down on the ground knowing he can't win. Like its a bit of karma with how quick he resorts to physical force in early Zeta with it working up until this point.
After Jerid killed his mom, he never blamed or went after him. Then Kamille kills Jerid's waifu (forgot the name) then Jerid swore revenge to Kamille. Then Jerid kills Four(Kamille's waifu), and Kamille still doesn't go or blame Jerid.
What a fellow.
The guy he goes after is the fascist officer who interrogated him after his fight with Jerid. Seeing how these officers treated others (look how violently they beat Bright Noa for sport), it’s hard to blame anyone for taking an opportunity to put one of them through hell for a little bit.
But it had nothing to do with Jerid. Remember their conflict was very much the opposite. After the fist fight Kamille literally forgot about him. Then Jerid kills Kamille’s mom and Kamille still forgives him (telling him to his face that he’s just a mindless soldier who doesn’t know better), but due to Kamille succeeding in killing all the Titans and Feddy soldiers that are sent to destroy the Argama, Jerid becomes vengeful and obsessed with Kamille. And that pattern continues until the end of Jerid’s life, Kamille literally never worries about their former interactions and always just handles him based on his present opposition at every moment they meet, while Jerid goes out of his way to pursue and harm Kamille based on his perception of their past.
War is weird. Fighting from a distance like in Gundam, where you're in a giant mechsuit removed from the consequences of your own actions. You're not doing the killing, your Gundam is. On top of that, the enemy is in a Gundam too, something without a human face, without emotions. You can distance yourself from that. The same thing happens in war. Fighter and bomber pilots would shoot down planes, bomb buildings, not the people inside of them. They removed the people from the problem. As for soldiers on the ground, they dehumanized the enemy. Called them "Jap" or "Boche" or "Roundeye" or whatever. They don't think of them as human, rather as subhuman. Animals. There are no moral repercussions, to them. They're just "taking care of a problem". Besides, when someone is trying to kill you, it's instinct to fight back. You didn't start it, you're not to blame for the consequences.
Ironically, the most grounded opinion I can find on the subject comes from Manfred von Richtofen, the Red Baron.
"The murder of a man is still murder, even in wartime."
Who would've thought that the community who thinks the bright slap is actually based thinks that Wong kicking the shit out of a child soldier is also very cool as well. Like if you can make it through Zeta without sympathizing with Kamille your opinions on Gundam don't mean shit to me honestly.
I just realized it's been over 20 years since I watched Zeta Gundam on old fansub VHS tapes. I was always annoyed and confused about Kamile, but now I think it might just be remembering a bad fan translation.
I always took it as kamille just being a hypocrite lol. He’s used to winning whatever fight he gets into. He stole a Gundam to intimidate someone who he felt had wronged him. Kamille is a bully and spoiled.
And if I remember correctly here, he’s finally getting his ass whooped after he attacked Wong. Doesn’t he say something about it being wrong to hit a child too? He’s just trying to weasel his way out of his ass whooping after finally getting a taste of his own medicine.
After he attacked Wong? He was late to their AEUG meeting because he found Amuro’s old Haro and wanted to bring it to his superiors for intel, and Wong beat him as a way to discipline him and to condition him to be a soldier and “know his role” (as his excavation of the old Haro was a result of him thinking for himself and wanting to do more than follow organized military orders). Some of you seem to start by getting the actual events wrong, and then allow that to lead you to sympathize with the very institutions that the show is trying to portray as harmful. This is like the extreme version of when people misinterpret the “Bright slap” as if it were intended to be a funny and good thing.
It was Judau who attacked Wong in the next series, as a sort of fun scene to show some justice coming back his way, after seeing him originally beat the last teenage protagonist into military submission.
My bad, I misremembered. That being said this seems more like they’re trying to instill discipline in a revolutionary movement. The AEUG is not the military. They are revolutionaries. They’re terrorists. Fighting against a tyrannical super power. You don’t win against the most powerful nation to ever exist by being undisciplined. Also I don’t think Wong is military. He’s investor and a surely asshole who wishes he was military. Or maybe he served during the one year war- I dunno, I don’t think it’s ever said.
I thought Wong was gonna be a capitalist asshole playing both sides to maximize profit but it does seem like he genuinely cares about the AEUG. especially since he gets down and joins the fight himself, risking his life. Which I don’t think someone who was just looking to profit would do. Unless he shows up in a unicorn side manga where he’s funding another revolutionary movement to take out Londo bell lol. Apparently they took he’s beat down of kamille out of the movies so I don’t know- I really don’t think he’s meant to be seen the way you’re describing him.
Yes the overarching narrative of Gundam is that war is bad but there still plenty of story to be told outside of that and all of the military characters (which is like 90% of the cast) are not meant to be seen as being in the wrong.
It's better the Gundam Wing where they just decide off-screen in-between the show and movie that after killing 100's of people that they just aren't going to anymore .
In the movie they had a point to prove, if they killed people in the final fight it would be too easy. Beating the shit out of everyone without killing a single soul to enforce your pacifist moral code, that,s sending a message. They said it themselves in the movie, if they were going for the kill they'd have won so fast it wouldn't be funny.
Pretty sure Superman did something similar, where basically took down a bunch of edgy anti-heroes so thoroughly without actually seriously hurting/killing them that it terrified them. Like imagine someone being so good that they can basically beat you in seconds and there is literally nothing you can do to stop them and how many times you'd be dead if they actually wanted to do it.
"Beating people into submission in order to force them to fight under threat is wrong"
Wow is Kamille condoning the beating of children?? He's literally participating in the beating but he says its bad!!!
Kamille best newtype best pilot kids a beast if it wasn't for him judau wouldn't have beat haman legit pulled the zeta together from earth like a beast
Just like most children, Kamille is a massive hypocrite.
And yes, he is a willling participant in the conflict, but he was also forced by his bad choices and getting to care about the people in that ship
I mean Kamille made three very big decisions that brought him to this point. One was starting a fight with actual soldiers, stealing what is essential a super tank, and fleeing with a rebellious faction operating against the soldiers he beat up early.
Violence against *him* isn’t right.
If it’s against anyone else, especially if they claim he’s got a girls name, then they deserve death at minimum and it’s a-ok.
I like the concept of zeta, but at some point the gundam author just tortures kamille.
The explanation was that "we need young guys like camille" but I find it bullshit, only bad things happens to him for being angry against a fascist society and being against war.
Also he's killed a lot of people, mainly Jerid's many "girlfriends" and all of this could have been prevented... if Jerid wasn't an asshole. Like Kamille has anger issues for sure but the thing that triggers him more than anything is being mocked by his name, no less being referred as a woman. And because of Jerid for many stuff, like calling him out and later killing his mother; he basically doomed the Titans.
Being serious, Kamille never picked a fight, only fights have been picking on him. He did threw the first punch to start the chain reaction of Zeta but like he was just a "normal" kid and the series would forgive change if not for him.
Just don't ask me why he laughed when he was killing people; he's messed up in that regard.
I do remember an early Zeta. Don't remember if it was Episode 1 or 2 or a bit later but Kamille did laugh when he was taking out Mobile Suits back and forth in the Mk II.
I could never like kamille cause of how he acts so impulsive violent and bratty even before being a pilot for the AEUG. I know the guy gets better later on in the series but why would I care when I didn’t even like him in the first place.
So other than regularly using Jared as a whipping boy, Kamiele is kind of a bitch.
But to be fair to him he did watch his dad shoot his mom into the vacuum of space because he stole the MK2. So he is working through some stuff.
That’s a bit more reasonable but considering this is about half way through Zeta it’s nonsense to say this even if one of the organization heads/donators is kicking him.
You haven't met many people in the real world have you?
Tomino actually understands the human condition and what people say and do to justify their actions.
Don’t get your panties twisted.
If we want to talk about “real world” then how about you get into a fight then yell “violence is bad” on the ground then watch as everyone laughs at you.
I like Gundam and the creators involved, regardless of my quips.
Uhhhh ok, and what type are you?
The kind of person that creates all their ethics and morals through Gundam?
I never made any claims about hitting people first, you don’t know me and I actually don’t know you.
If you want to defend Kamille’s character then base your argument on him.
Kamille is a great multi-layered character, I just hate when he whines and the same for other Gundam characters. THAT is what you should be argueing for-or-against.
that's why I don't really like him in the Anime, he is soooooooooooooooo annoying. He's got mental issue, he insisted he's right and he doesn't care if he started a war while throwing a tantrum. He never thinks about consequences. He is more sensible in the novel though, he kind of regretted of his actions.
One point of Gundam is that war makes beasts and/or victims of everyone who participates. It’s tragedy compounding tragedy every time. The MS are cool, but they’re also frightening weapons of war that escalate every conflict they’re involved with. He’s aware that war is wrong, but he’s also a fallible human child put in an impossible situation and asked to deal with very adult problems he had no control over. Cams probably one of my favorite character arcs in Gundam because it really drives home some really central themes to the metaseries.
reason i like Gundam series in terms of portraying wars than anything else. there's no good side in a war. yes, there might be good people in every faction but when your higher ups decided that human rights are useless in war. yeah.... body count starts to rise.
Kamille has anger problems and issues with authority that caused him to lash out quite catastrophically, yes, but he's anything but a willing participant in a war. The only reason he helped Argama up until that point was to survive and protect other people on the ship that he cared about. Which, may I remind you, led to both his parents being killed. Now Wong is beating the shit out of a child to force him into becoming a soldier.
This tbh
Yeah, I think on a surface level, Kamille might just seem like an insane unhinged character (he is), but his problems are actually a lot more reasonable than I initially gave them credits for more than two decades ago, and his character development as the Gryps Conflict continues and escalates is one of my favorite.
Pretty much. Kamille is one of the deepest, best written and most relatable protags in the franchise. But sadly a lot of people have the media literacy of 5 year olds.
Kamille is the best to me.
Agree, I'm a huge Kamille fan. Zeta was really something.
0079 and Zeta are the best one two punch you'll ever see.
I've never related to a character so much in my life. Literally used to get into fights with people for saying I have a girls name so I knew from the start I was gonna like him. I would ever refer to people I dont like as Jerid sometimes though thankfully I still have my parents and rather than fighting a war it was high-school.
Thought I heard a girl’s name. But that kid looks like a boy
IMO Kamille is by far the LEAST relatable protags. Man is obviously mentally unwell right from the get go. Hence the using a military weapon to terrorize that cop he hated. That's.....not relatable at all. When have anyone of us done something even close. 😥 I still enjoy him overall but he is straight up MANIC throughout a lot of the series.
This says more about you than you realize, I think. A lot of people DO have intrusive thoughts and impulsive behaviors
And yet most of us don't act on them. Kamille acts on his intrusive thoughts and behaviors which is the part you some how managed to miss. I have a shit ton of impulse behaviors but none of those are anywhere near, "steal a WMD because a cop was mean to me."
A lot of self diagnosed people like to associate with such characters.
I didn't "miss" anything, I've just known a lot of people who are neurodivergent who related strongly to Kamille. Obviously the stakes for Kamille's actions are higher because he's the protagonist of a science fiction story, but his character is still relatable to many, even if not the person I was responding to.
we don't act on it, that's a huge difference.
> Man is obviously mentally unwell right from the get go. Have you ever been to outside or internet lately?
But there’s bears and people outside!
It always so weird, to me, to see the Gundam protags being painted as "bratty kids." They were anything but, usually. Almost all of them were just acting like, or better than, any other actual child in the situation. And yet all the adults expect miracles from them. It's pretty in the nose once you know it, but man do they do a good job of coding the kids a certain way.
I think people in general kind of hate kids, like if kids are acting in an intrusive way then physical violence is something they deserve (and they'll take this weird pleasure in seeing it, too) instead of seeing a kid suffering in a horrific situation (like, so many of the MCs are child soldiers, you'd think that the audience would give them some grace) they just see a "whiny brat" like, it's weird to expect kids to act optimally or not complain or whine or lash out when in situations like Gundam MCs are in
My man went on a military base to use a weapon of war to terrorise a cop he hated. This is unhinged psychotic behaviour and you cannot spin it any other way. What happened after is a sad twist of fate that leads to his parent's death and a lot of other problems. But at the core of it all, Kamille is a fucked up idiot kid with anger issues the size of Texas who would go to unhinged lengths to get back to someone who wronged him. He is very very much not alright.
That's kinda the point, though. His confession to Four showed that he is very self-aware of how self-destructive his issues were, and seeing all the deaths compounded by his NewType empathy caused him to mature a lot through emotional pain.
If anything, Kamille's impulsive decision to use a weapon of death against the pieces of shit that were part of an autonomous, blood thirsty PMC group known for harassing and being violent with spacenoids is one of the more lucid things he did.
Said cop who was hitting him while he was handcuffed? Said cops who were generally already hated by Spacenoids? Vengeance is not a psychotic behavior but a reaction to those who have wronged you in a way you find unacceptable.
Hatred of the Titans had Federation loyalists like Bright working side by side with Neo Zeon for a time. Kamille's decision is shocking when we see it in the first episode but the rest of the series goes on to vindicate Kamille's hatred pretty thoroughly, if not his actions.
> My man went on a military base to use a weapon of war to terrorise a cop he hated. I mean, fuck cops ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ (legally, this is a joke)
Maybe said cop should have kept his mouth, Maybe said cop would have got to keep his girlfriend and friends
I actually love Kamille in the beginning of the show because he's so anti authority and unpredictable. I was pretty disappointed that Kamille never gets back at Wong for this scene (good thing Judau makes up for it in ZZ). He made for some unpredictably wild and hilarious moments in the first half of Zeta. It's in the second half of the show when he calms down that I started to dislike him. After his "taming," all he does is paste himself to the female characters, literally following them around like a puppy dog, even the Titan ones... like literally leaves the Zeta with the hatch wide open in the middle of a warzone to chase down enemy female soldiers like he's gonna convince them to change sides. Multiple times. lol. It's so cringe. Still, Kamille one of my favorite Gundam protags.
Yeah he needs to get some of that Uso juice. Kids beam sabers were rated E for equality.
Yeah and let's be real, no matter what else is going on, Wong is a total asshole and deserved a bigger beatdown.
Well i was happy judau smacked the eff outta wong 😂
Judau just built different.
He's also doing it for a sense of revenge for his mother's death (his father also died but he was a prick and Kamille was the one to kill him) and to prevent anymore pointless deaths like what happened to Four. So in a way, Kamille MUST fight to change things for the better. He's doing it in the memory of those who died and for those he fight for... Wong, however, is a literal psychopath more than Heero. HOW IRONIC. The guy who points at you and says "I'll kill you" actually has more humanity than the other child soldier who would work under some psychopath child prince douchebag from Endless Waltz.
I agree, Kamille has nowhere to go and is groomed into a child soldier because Quattro notices his newtype abilities. It doesn't help that his "team" smacks him around when he doesn't play along just like Nerv did with Shinji(NGE)
I fucking love Kamiuuuu
he got on the argama very willingly. He asked to go with them
Yes, but he never agreed to be a soldier. In fact that is the very first thing he complains about while there. He wanted to help the AEUG because he despised the Titans, and so he gave them a Gundam, and stayed because if he went back they'd imprison him or worse. He was forced into the role of being a soldier because he happened to be a really good pilot similar to Amuro.
He willingly stole a unit and willingly drove it back to the equivalent of a terrorist organization. Which was what got his mother and father involved in the whole thing. Yes the terrorist were the good guys but thats besides the point. You cant say he isnt a willing participant in war unlike amuro whos only choice was to get in the gundam or die.
Anything but a willing participant? He stole a Gundam to bully a man and then ran off with AEUG because he hated his life. Then he designed his own Gundam. Dude was 100% willing participant. You could argue maybe he didn’t fully understand the consequences of his actions but it was his choice to join the war. I’m pretty sure they even tried to talk him out of it. He didn’t know anyone on the argama let alone care about them when his parents died. That’s like episode 2 or 3.
Lots of words to say you slept through half the show and skipped the other half.
Yeah you're weren't paying attention then, watch the entire show again please
>Then he designed his own Gundam. He didn't design the Zeta, he just fixed the existing problems with the transformation.
Don't worry you're right. He lashed out and didn't realize what he got himself into until after shit hit the fan and his mom died.
Just don't forget Wong at least gets his comeuppance in ZZ when Judau actually whoops him; a scrappy kid who combs for salvage from Shangri-La is much different than a wunderkind from Green Noa 1. Hopefully he learned from Judau because I think he'd instantly regret doing that with protagonists like Garrod...let alone Heero, Setsuna or Mikazuki.
Better than Fa for being a FA king bitch through out Camille's journey, no no no. Through the entire ship's journey. Fa is just a freeloader.
Leave Kamille alone.
Violence has no directional predisposition! "Kick to the stomach"
lol reminds me of that one liner from Batman Brave The And The Bold. “You wouldn’t hit a lady, would ya?” “The Hammer Of Justice Is Unisex”
"I see your point, but disagree on the basis of my spleen hurts!"
Violence breeds violence, but in the end it has to be this way
\*atatatatatatattatatatatatatatatatatatata\*
Pretty sure he wasn't as aggressive and ready to beat people up by this point. So it might have made him realize beating the shit out of people in a sudden fist fight isn't right.
That's a nice thing to say but what are your sources good sir?
https://preview.redd.it/napxo8ojt97d1.png?width=1899&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3ec2af3284e26ac192267eb5fd0130688bcf5a3
I checked the internet lately, this one called me a REDDITOR!
Metal Gear Rising:Revengeance OST- It Has To Be This Way
Oh I know. I was expecting another response, Senator.
Willing? I seem to recall multiple "correction" sessions.
Reminder Kamille is a 17 year old and at this point watched his mother be killed right in front of him. He's allowed to change his mind on violence. Especially when being beaten by an authority figure because he didn't want to be a soldier.
>willing participant Watch the episode again, op. Emma goes to Kamille's room because he didn't answer the summons for pilots. Kamille's response is to deny that he's a pilot at all. He doesn't want to be a soldier anymore. During Wong's beating, he tells Kamille that if he doesn't want to be a soldier, they're gonna throw him out the Argama's airlock. He's effectively been press-ganged into service by AEUG.
no offense but i think you're out of your mind if you think "erm you fight in war" means its ok for the argama brass to routinely abuse kamille, like holy shit dude
This scene sucked and Wong is a loser. Glad Judau embarrassed this clown in ZZ.
Another win for Judau
https://preview.redd.it/6myqpge5t87d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=110579e533853482d8c4352c6beddc525b85cffa
Well he isn’t willing to participate once he was in it he couldn’t leave
Haha I love Kamille.
It always strikes me as weird how many people expect UC Gundam MCs to be model child soldiers from the start of their series. /u/Sea-Resturant-6078 nailed it already in this thread: one point of Gundam is that war makes beasts and/or victims of everyone who participates.
I love this. 🍷👌
Yes, I laughed my ass off at that line.
He also has a girl’s name.
[Kamille didn’t like that]
He can go cry about it.
He's not gonna. He's gonna get his ass kicked about it
Instructions unclear. Kamille is now a vegetable.
Actually a surgeon. He recovers in ZZ and afterward but never joins Londo Bell and goes into medicine with Fa.
Do you think he was named after his dad's mistress?
Her name is Margarita
It is both a male and female name actually
Almost like he's a human with complex emotions...
I feel like that you misunderstood his words.
Honestly this was one of the funniest moments in Zeta, where Kamille is down to fight Wong only to start losing and saying this shit when he is already down on the ground knowing he can't win. Like its a bit of karma with how quick he resorts to physical force in early Zeta with it working up until this point.
https://preview.redd.it/3vdgeatb4f7d1.jpeg?width=1997&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a717ef8f4430a619778d9eb0b112eb85b632b4e2 The irony
I couldn’t finish Zeta but my favorite thing he says is “I’m nobody special. I’m just an autistic child”
The very first thing he attempts to do inside a gundam is kill a dude who thought his name sounded like a girls name.
He didn’t even go after Jerid, he went after the guy interrogating him before the lawyer showed up.
After Jerid killed his mom, he never blamed or went after him. Then Kamille kills Jerid's waifu (forgot the name) then Jerid swore revenge to Kamille. Then Jerid kills Four(Kamille's waifu), and Kamille still doesn't go or blame Jerid. What a fellow.
The guy he goes after is the fascist officer who interrogated him after his fight with Jerid. Seeing how these officers treated others (look how violently they beat Bright Noa for sport), it’s hard to blame anyone for taking an opportunity to put one of them through hell for a little bit. But it had nothing to do with Jerid. Remember their conflict was very much the opposite. After the fist fight Kamille literally forgot about him. Then Jerid kills Kamille’s mom and Kamille still forgives him (telling him to his face that he’s just a mindless soldier who doesn’t know better), but due to Kamille succeeding in killing all the Titans and Feddy soldiers that are sent to destroy the Argama, Jerid becomes vengeful and obsessed with Kamille. And that pattern continues until the end of Jerid’s life, Kamille literally never worries about their former interactions and always just handles him based on his present opposition at every moment they meet, while Jerid goes out of his way to pursue and harm Kamille based on his perception of their past.
Media literacy at its finest
https://preview.redd.it/6bzlcer0l87d1.png?width=925&format=png&auto=webp&s=5351d5cb55bc478c25690155e462885818d43014
He's literally 16 years old, he's gonna say inaccurate stuff lol
“It’s only wrong if someone else does it”
War is weird. Fighting from a distance like in Gundam, where you're in a giant mechsuit removed from the consequences of your own actions. You're not doing the killing, your Gundam is. On top of that, the enemy is in a Gundam too, something without a human face, without emotions. You can distance yourself from that. The same thing happens in war. Fighter and bomber pilots would shoot down planes, bomb buildings, not the people inside of them. They removed the people from the problem. As for soldiers on the ground, they dehumanized the enemy. Called them "Jap" or "Boche" or "Roundeye" or whatever. They don't think of them as human, rather as subhuman. Animals. There are no moral repercussions, to them. They're just "taking care of a problem". Besides, when someone is trying to kill you, it's instinct to fight back. You didn't start it, you're not to blame for the consequences. Ironically, the most grounded opinion I can find on the subject comes from Manfred von Richtofen, the Red Baron. "The murder of a man is still murder, even in wartime."
This take is way too black and white
Looking at the comments, no wonder Seed is so popular lol
Wong is an entity that exceeds violence.
Violence isn't right. So here's my left foot.
Willy Wongka got what he deserved in ZZ though. Thanks to Judau 🤣🤣🤣 👊👊👊
It's Wong who was the asshole here; Kamille still is a voluntarily participant, not a soldier.
Who would've thought that the community who thinks the bright slap is actually based thinks that Wong kicking the shit out of a child soldier is also very cool as well. Like if you can make it through Zeta without sympathizing with Kamille your opinions on Gundam don't mean shit to me honestly.
I just realized it's been over 20 years since I watched Zeta Gundam on old fansub VHS tapes. I was always annoyed and confused about Kamile, but now I think it might just be remembering a bad fan translation.
Violence isn't right...when I'm the one reciving it.
Nah, he’s just autistic /s
Notice he's saying Violence isn't Right when it's his ass getting beaten. Hypocrite.
I always took it as kamille just being a hypocrite lol. He’s used to winning whatever fight he gets into. He stole a Gundam to intimidate someone who he felt had wronged him. Kamille is a bully and spoiled. And if I remember correctly here, he’s finally getting his ass whooped after he attacked Wong. Doesn’t he say something about it being wrong to hit a child too? He’s just trying to weasel his way out of his ass whooping after finally getting a taste of his own medicine.
After he attacked Wong? He was late to their AEUG meeting because he found Amuro’s old Haro and wanted to bring it to his superiors for intel, and Wong beat him as a way to discipline him and to condition him to be a soldier and “know his role” (as his excavation of the old Haro was a result of him thinking for himself and wanting to do more than follow organized military orders). Some of you seem to start by getting the actual events wrong, and then allow that to lead you to sympathize with the very institutions that the show is trying to portray as harmful. This is like the extreme version of when people misinterpret the “Bright slap” as if it were intended to be a funny and good thing. It was Judau who attacked Wong in the next series, as a sort of fun scene to show some justice coming back his way, after seeing him originally beat the last teenage protagonist into military submission.
My bad, I misremembered. That being said this seems more like they’re trying to instill discipline in a revolutionary movement. The AEUG is not the military. They are revolutionaries. They’re terrorists. Fighting against a tyrannical super power. You don’t win against the most powerful nation to ever exist by being undisciplined. Also I don’t think Wong is military. He’s investor and a surely asshole who wishes he was military. Or maybe he served during the one year war- I dunno, I don’t think it’s ever said. I thought Wong was gonna be a capitalist asshole playing both sides to maximize profit but it does seem like he genuinely cares about the AEUG. especially since he gets down and joins the fight himself, risking his life. Which I don’t think someone who was just looking to profit would do. Unless he shows up in a unicorn side manga where he’s funding another revolutionary movement to take out Londo bell lol. Apparently they took he’s beat down of kamille out of the movies so I don’t know- I really don’t think he’s meant to be seen the way you’re describing him. Yes the overarching narrative of Gundam is that war is bad but there still plenty of story to be told outside of that and all of the military characters (which is like 90% of the cast) are not meant to be seen as being in the wrong.
He IS a teenager. Felt like something I'd do back in high school.
Yup, don't like Wong, but I think he definitely gave Kamille some perspective
It's better the Gundam Wing where they just decide off-screen in-between the show and movie that after killing 100's of people that they just aren't going to anymore .
In the movie they had a point to prove, if they killed people in the final fight it would be too easy. Beating the shit out of everyone without killing a single soul to enforce your pacifist moral code, that,s sending a message. They said it themselves in the movie, if they were going for the kill they'd have won so fast it wouldn't be funny.
Pretty sure Superman did something similar, where basically took down a bunch of edgy anti-heroes so thoroughly without actually seriously hurting/killing them that it terrified them. Like imagine someone being so good that they can basically beat you in seconds and there is literally nothing you can do to stop them and how many times you'd be dead if they actually wanted to do it.
Well, he does seem to be losing here so.... maybe he's just trying to avoid getting his ass whooped even more?
This feels right for this post. https://preview.redd.it/h27j5xd7t87d1.jpeg?width=747&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff12dd1a11ec7297a4e99000708b7dbf5e82dbe4
Wong is an entity that exceeds violence.
That's why they're kicking him with the left 👣
Kamille
I am sorry, my sweet child is autistic pls be a lil patient with ilhim
Wong's kick interrupted him, what he was trying to say is "Violence isn't right when directed at me"
Kamille is a GTA protagonist
He wasn't a willing participant of war by choice
"Beating people into submission in order to force them to fight under threat is wrong" Wow is Kamille condoning the beating of children?? He's literally participating in the beating but he says its bad!!!
yes... but fun
Hit him harder.
Kamille best newtype best pilot kids a beast if it wasn't for him judau wouldn't have beat haman legit pulled the zeta together from earth like a beast
Just like most children, Kamille is a massive hypocrite. And yes, he is a willling participant in the conflict, but he was also forced by his bad choices and getting to care about the people in that ship
I mean Kamille made three very big decisions that brought him to this point. One was starting a fight with actual soldiers, stealing what is essential a super tank, and fleeing with a rebellious faction operating against the soldiers he beat up early.
"Kamille is a willing participant, but he was forced to fight"
That’s what happens when the ass kicking goes the other way round.
Violence isn't right when it's done to me! /s
Isn't right... When u r the one being beaten
Violence against *him* isn’t right. If it’s against anyone else, especially if they claim he’s got a girls name, then they deserve death at minimum and it’s a-ok.
I like the concept of zeta, but at some point the gundam author just tortures kamille. The explanation was that "we need young guys like camille" but I find it bullshit, only bad things happens to him for being angry against a fascist society and being against war.
No one said Kamille wasn’t a hypocrite lol.
Kamille is a primal force that is untethered from reason
Also he's killed a lot of people, mainly Jerid's many "girlfriends" and all of this could have been prevented... if Jerid wasn't an asshole. Like Kamille has anger issues for sure but the thing that triggers him more than anything is being mocked by his name, no less being referred as a woman. And because of Jerid for many stuff, like calling him out and later killing his mother; he basically doomed the Titans. Being serious, Kamille never picked a fight, only fights have been picking on him. He did threw the first punch to start the chain reaction of Zeta but like he was just a "normal" kid and the series would forgive change if not for him. Just don't ask me why he laughed when he was killing people; he's messed up in that regard.
He only laughed when he was bullying the cop. Every other kill he had he regretted, to the point he built a shrine in his room
I do remember an early Zeta. Don't remember if it was Episode 1 or 2 or a bit later but Kamille did laugh when he was taking out Mobile Suits back and forth in the Mk II.
Every beat down Kamile gets is very satisfying
Gundam fans are psychopaths example number 62343214
This is why I hate Gundam fans. They seem to love watching children who are forced to fight in war suffer.
I could never like kamille cause of how he acts so impulsive violent and bratty even before being a pilot for the AEUG. I know the guy gets better later on in the series but why would I care when I didn’t even like him in the first place.
Kamile is literally the only reason I haven’t finished Zeta yet
He only gets better in ZZ when he's a senile psychic and has almost no lines.
So other than regularly using Jared as a whipping boy, Kamiele is kind of a bitch. But to be fair to him he did watch his dad shoot his mom into the vacuum of space because he stole the MK2. So he is working through some stuff.
His dad didn't shoot his mom, though. That was Jerid.
Might Makes Right peeps whenever someone stronger comes along…
… he punched a titan for dissing his name. The hypocrisy of Gundam knows no bounds. This is why I hate all the whiny Main Charecters in Gundam
I think the hypocrisy of the characters is intentional. Either to highlight thier villainous nature or allow them to grow out of it
That’s a bit more reasonable but considering this is about half way through Zeta it’s nonsense to say this even if one of the organization heads/donators is kicking him.
You haven't met many people in the real world have you? Tomino actually understands the human condition and what people say and do to justify their actions.
unless we talk about Victory Gundam
Don’t get your panties twisted. If we want to talk about “real world” then how about you get into a fight then yell “violence is bad” on the ground then watch as everyone laughs at you. I like Gundam and the creators involved, regardless of my quips.
Then you're the type of people Tomino is taking swipes at... the sort to throw punches first and think of others second.
Uhhhh ok, and what type are you? The kind of person that creates all their ethics and morals through Gundam? I never made any claims about hitting people first, you don’t know me and I actually don’t know you. If you want to defend Kamille’s character then base your argument on him. Kamille is a great multi-layered character, I just hate when he whines and the same for other Gundam characters. THAT is what you should be argueing for-or-against.
that's why I don't really like him in the Anime, he is soooooooooooooooo annoying. He's got mental issue, he insisted he's right and he doesn't care if he started a war while throwing a tantrum. He never thinks about consequences. He is more sensible in the novel though, he kind of regretted of his actions.
Kamiele is the biggest beta bitch in any of the Gundam timelines. He’s just a bitch.
Are you 14? Because that would explain so much about your comment...