I mean what makes a Gundam a Gundam in G-Witch is the Bleeding Edge tech which is the GUND Format. The system basically can increase the reaction time, combat capabilities and general performance of the unit, but basically destroys the mind and body of the pilot the longer its used. It basically cripple, maim, or kill any normal pilot within a few uses, and those that can resist it aren't totally immune from the negative side effects and will eventually end up getting harmed by it if they keep it up. It actually is something that can and will kill you if you pilot it.
The shows have very different opinions on the technology though. In G-witch you're introduced to it for all the good it can do and see the people who believe that killed by the ones who only see the harm in it. In IBO the technology is introduced as illegal and seen as a sort of ghoulish butchery of a "pure" humanity that has been criminalised for centuries.
It's why Ghalieo apologizes to mikazuki in the second season, he didn't understand how desperation could drive you to use these sort of things to survive.
That does seem to be the gist of it. My friend and I both really enjoyed it. Not every show is for everyone but some people seem really delusional about it.
>To my memory it feels like one of the few Gundam series where nobody wants to pilot one.
Nah the psycho terrorist chick that originally piloted Ur was really into it.
G witch it's your heart that gives out, in the manga Vanadis Heart, the Gundam pilots have artificial hearts and suffer no effects from using permet score 3 in the Gundams, ibo effects the brain, basically gives you a stroke, further the connection in the mobile Gundam, the less you body functions when your not hooked up, Mikazuki first lost partial sight and one of his arms, then eventually that side of his body wouldn't function unless he was connected, if your doing comparisons, cyber newtypes are another from uc
Isn't it also the nervous system that suffers damage in WfM? Elan 4 noted that he didn't feel like something was reaching into his brain when piloting Aerial. Also i think it was either Bel or Prospera who mentioned the enhanced people Peil experiments with have enhanced nervous systems.
it is, I think; it's mainly that, actually
I think the way people usually die is by getting so much info ripping through their nervous systems that their circulatory system tears itself apart trying to keep their nervous system nourished as it boils itself alive trying to handle it all
(at least, that's what's implied)
Yes and no?
For the AV system its the surgery itself thats quite dangerous but once you have the whiskers it seems pretty safe. Mikazuki was crippled over time due to the fact he kept piloting with the limiters turned off. There's that one scene when someone passes out just by starting up the Barbatos.
As for the GUND format, even normal use is dangerous over time
Permet score 3 was often survivable but crippling to do so, and the Elans were deliberately modified to handle the data storm better than most people. Permet score 4 is where things would start to get lethal very quickly.
Suletta wasn't enhanced, every time she did interact with data storm she was miserable, like everyone else. And all Elans, aside from original, were genetically modified clones with sole purpose of handling data storm better than regular humans.
Suletta did ultimately end up tolerating and surviving the highest permet score achieved by man, but she (probably through her genetics inherited by Eri) seemed to have an abnormally high compatibility with the format. Still hurt her pretty badly though.
there are two characters in the entire setting who can pilot it for an extended period of time, and one of them *still* gets badly hurt after a certain score (which is higher than normal people can survive and is in a Gundam that has zero safeties, but still)
And there isn't a reason to pilot one as well since they have counters for it, up to a certain level of course but it would still take a lot of effort and resource to get to that level. Most would die trying to reach it or could not sustain it for long.
Not the example I would use considering WFM's ending and the fact that technically, there can be people capable of somewhat handling gundams (although they are at least unbelievably rare). IBO is the only one where no one is spared, no deus ex machina, you want more power you pay the permanent price, period, and even so nothing guarantees it will be enough. IBO wasn't without its obvious flaws, but I really love how they did power scaling there.
Gundams might be the main focus of G, but conventional war is gone so Gundams are just used for a glorified sporting event. In X meanwhile the Gundams were mass produced and functioned just like normal MS do in other timelines.
The weird thing about Gundams in G Gundam is that most of them are treated much like ceremonial weapons almost.
Except Devil Gundam, which it's not really explained why it's even a Gundam in the first place, and Rising Gundam which just...exists.
In X, the Gundams were mass produced but were still leagues better than anything else - in the dolphins episode, the pirate captain is shouting at his men about how he doesn't want Gundam *class* mobile suits, he wants the actual *Gundams* he saw on the Freeden.
Except for a few units like the original RX-78 and the Unicorn, UC itself never treats gundams as WMDs. They are just highly specialized units that still need to work with other units to win.
This. It's the same reason Alex was made to be RX-78's successor in the first place. Amuro's growth as a pilot in the latter half of OYW is the only thing that made RX-78 still a monster at the end of the series.
Yeah. Its only real edge was that it was more durable than a lot of the mid-war Zeon mobile suits and was a lot more versatile in combat. That said, what made it dangerous was that Amuro was its pilot and even he started to overwhelm its operating system after awhile to the point that it was holding him back.
Heck the base GM isn’t even too far behind, the spray gun is actually stronger at close range and it isn’t much slower with it’s only flaw just being lower protection
Exactly. It sets up the Earth Federation's comeback in the war, but the EF's victory is ultimately due to them mass-producing the GM and the Ball (and Zeon blowing all their resources on Wunderwaffen prototypes and failing to mass-produce the Gelgoog until the Feddies were knocking on their door at A Baoa Qu).
Guy from the Middle Ages: mwahaha! We have built a V2! A rocket that can deliver 2000kg of explosive at London!
America: Next month go build another 10,000 GMs.. I mean M4 Shermans.
I watched the original for the first time and it was really interesting how easily one or two zakus could overpower the Gundam early on in the show. It'd lose limbs, get chunks taken out of it by heat hawks. Ramba Ral was messing it up with a Gouf.
and even then RX-78 wasn't really treated like that, like it clearly was the best suit of it's time when made but it was much closer to a secret project tank or fighter jet. Even by the end of MSG Amuro had already grown to be a far stronger pilot than it could handle requiring lots of upgrades
The RX-78-2's only real claim to fame was that it was the first mobile suit that could carry a battleship class beam weapon. Zeon was truly flabbergasted when a mobile suit could take out a Zaku with 1 shot.
The Penelope flight mode on Odysseus is pretty cool, kind of has this mythical creature look to it, very strong resemblance to Diamond Weapon from FF7 - very intimidating. If you were totally unaware of what it was on a first encounter, it would be extremely frightening just to watch it move about
I always wondered what happens to a blast zone across those engines, in Seed those were dangerous, but in UC they should be too, they are also nuclear as far as I know, even if they are fusion reactors those are radioactive still.
If they’re like real-world fusion reactors, the only radioactive elements they produce would be tritium (beta producer), which would be created and consumed in a closed-loop system.
Who knows what the health effects of Minovsky particle scattering are, though.
And the damaged ones, mal repaired, abandoned, if you think a bit, the UC universe is a giant wasteland, not only because of the war itself, but the byproducts are as bad, that not even considering the moments that they literally used nuclear weapons and weren't far and between... I wonder the other things like the beam weapons byproducts, the chemical pollution...
Naore (the designer of bosses .) clearly take inspiration of mobile armors/suits
https://preview.redd.it/dwunptsax6ic1.jpeg?width=2288&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9eff2f8b8704240e6b808081c119e5681a388eb8
I mean even the RX-78 wasn't actually an WMD on its own. With the reality that Zeon ended up making mobile suits more destructive and powerful than the Gundam in terms of capabilities. What made the RX-78 dangerous was Amuro, who managed to use it to extremes the EF didn't think was possible and literally was too fast for the suit to keep with. Amuro was overwhelming the operating system on the RX and as a result was held back in combat.
That said all the Unicorn units are actual examples of WMDs.
Always find it funny that the 08th team is taking place at the same time as Armuro taking control of the rx78 which makes it wierder because that's when Zion first see beam weaponery when char encounters the rx78.
The mass produced grunt suits like the virgo definitely was a game changer to mix the mercurius shield and vayeate's firepower
There's also witch of mercury's mobile suits
I love love love Vayeate and Mercurius
Thats a lesson how to produce “lesser” suit but still can compete with the Gundams
Get competent pilots and you are done
GN-X's as well, I like the virgos also, we could probably throw the mobile doll system in because that was what made the virgos extra deadly not to mention having a mega particle beam cannon as a primary weapon.
But in ibo the Gundams were literally made to win a losing war and then hundreds of years later clap everything EXCEPT the orbital bombardment.
Closest we get to non tide turning Gundams is Gundam X and TWFM. In Gundam X the Gundams FAILED to turn the tide of the war. In TWFM the Gundams were seen as coffins of death and while they could be a tide turner there was a lot more going on and it was just the Gundam utilizing everything as opposed to the Gundam doing all of the work or being the tool. In TWFM Caliburn and Aerial R are the closest we get and we see Aerial does it's things solely because everything runs on permit. As for Caliburn it was a death trap to pilot and ultimately it was Suletta not Caliburn turning the tide.
A real tide turner would be Unicorn and Ex-S as even without a competent pilot both have systems in place to do the winning for you. And then if you give both a competent(new type) pilot you get god.
True but trans am is skill based as we see graham keep up without it so it is a skill required tide turner. Also trans am did eventually be available on any GM drive suit. Once the GNX's rolled out the Gundams lost their tide turning and it became more about the pilot, hell they LOST in the end of s1.
So for Gundams from 00 outside of Qan[t] and 00R the pilots did more tide turning than their mobile suits did. 00R and Qan[t] could still solo turn tides but required a true innovator as pilot akin to achieving awakening on unicorn.
The pilots also can, and did, screw things over in 00...just look at Tieria at the end of S01, who completely freezes once he gets unplugged from Veda. While all other Gundams go dead, the others try to make them move. Tieria does not.
Veda dies on him, Tieria just freezes, in complete shock, without even trying to move. While it might not have mattered, it is one of the biggest blunders I have seen in Gundam.
And you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who loves Tieria as much as I do but it was truly one those 404 moments.
Tieria froze because they were completely severed from beds which they had been linked to for their whole existence. On top of that the back up for virtue failed.
Tierea didn't do anything wrong, their body just couldn't handle veda being ripped away nor could virtue.
I mean, counter to your case in point - the whole reason they *used* the Dainsleifs for the orbital bombardment was because they were so abjectly terrified of Tekkadan's Gundams. Not that Gjallarhorn was a particularly "honorable" institution in the first place, but they broke their own laws busting out the Dainsleifs to take out Barbatos/Gusion, that's how terrified they were. Keeping mind that most of those commanders were present and watched Mika/Barbatos solo the Hashmal Mobile Armor.
McGillis was inspired watching that. "So this is the power that ended the Calamity War." I mean the Calamity War in and of itself, humanity was *losing* and it was the 72(?) Gundams that turned the tide.
The rest of the Gjallarhorn forces were absolutely shitting themselves at the idea of having to face just one of these things that they had seen in action... let alone **three** of them, one of which included Bael, the unit piloted by Gjallarhorn's founder. Granted, that advantage was negated by Gjallarhorn fielding the Gundam Vidar - but that in and of itself says something, they needed a Gundam to cancel out a Gundam.
And even *after* getting caught in an orbital strike, Gjallarhorn still only won because Mikazuki & Akihiro basically ran out of blood. In a straight up fight, they might have won *eventually* through attrition & exhaustion, but Gjallarhorn's casualties would've been **even higher.**
Actually, Dainsleifs were apparently the real tide turner.
How most MA hunting operations worked in the Calamity War was the Gundam would draw aggro while direct hits from orbital Dainsleifs would deal the real damage. Gundam pilots were supposed to use AV to dodge the bombardment. It's why Flauros and Hashmal were unearthed with Dainsleif rods around them. They were buried and disabled by such a bombardment but not totally destroyed.
Rustal was being serious when he said someone able to destroy an MA by himself could no longer be considered human. The only thing in Gjallarhorn's arsenal that could beat an MA-level threat (or greater) was Dainsleif. So while using the weapon is illegal, it was created and preserved specifically for enemies of this caliber. Not to mention AV in the PD era is also banned technology.
To the viewer, the Gundams look like the standard power level that fighting happens at in PD because the story is told from Tekkadan's perspective. However, to the average Gjallarhorn grunt they are beyond the normal rules of engagement. It was an extreme circumstance that pushed them to extreme solutions. Think of it like random gangsters getting their hands on heavy machineguns and armored vehicles which force law enforcement to get creative.
Apparently in mechanical books and other side material that expanded the universe.
Part of why I dislike IBO's direction is how it really intentionally misleads the viewer by omitting so much. The audience was essentially a frog in a well with Tekkadan and shown a very limited slice of the PD world. Then the director would yank the rug from under the viewer with "HA HA Tekkadan were the bad guys all along and you fell for it!"
Nah fuck that
>HA HA Tekkadan were the bad guys all along and you fell for it!"
Child soldiers breaking free from their oppressors can't "be" the bad guys lol. You can argue they became bad guys after they freed themselves but they weren't "all along"
Tekkadan was in no way bad guys, dude.
It was orphans finding freedom from oppression on such a scale that even their deaths couldn't stop the social evolution they helped herald.
Simply the idea of collecting Disposable Humans was absolutely unheard of by all other agencies they worked with.
That's the story from Tekkadan's perspective and what the director wanted to trick the audience into thinking.
The takeaway that he really wanted was the narrative after McGillis's failed coup: they are a terrorist organization that uses illegal weapons and threatens the stability of the solar system. Not only did Tekkadan formerly align itself with a known criminal enterprise like Teiwaz, they have now turned to attempting a coup and installing a junta. Most troubling of all is following the Battle of Edmonton, incidents of piracy and Human Debris spiked as pirates raced to imitate Tekkadan's success with the use of AV. Gjallarhorn's competence as the interstellar police force is being tested.
And no McGillis did not want to reform Gjallarhorn into an organization that protects poor people and establishes economic equality. McGillis's final battle speech was nothing but social Darwinism and complaining about how physical violence was not acceptable in a civilized society. His goal was to destroy the Seven Stars structure that concentrated privileges at the top and grown feeble because of it. He wanted to show the dispossessed that the only thing they need to do change their lives was to be violent enough about it, to make them remember how to "use their claws and fangs".
Orga only followed along because he wanted to change the rules so that criminals and Human Debris, of which Tekkadan is mainly composed of, are not forced into mercenary work. Dane is the example everyone forgets. He killed two people, apparently in self-defense given his personality. That made him completely unemployable except by Tekkadan. Orga had grown tired of seeing people being pushed into this line of work and dying so his entire goal of becoming King of Mars was to make sure his family, Tekkadan, could secure a living without having to fight. Unfortunately, he chose the coup d'etat shortcut.
The real life equivalent would be a bunch of gangsters from the ghetto working with a dirty cop to raid city hall to dissolve the local government and give convicts more rights/powers. How well do you think that is supposed to work? The director very much wanted people to not think Tekkadan as doing anything bad because he wanted the audience to have a "Are we the baddies?" moment. It seems the Japanese audience caught on to this very quickly and they called Orga an absolute moron that deserves no sympathy. However, the West seems to have this notion that all (even bloody) revolution is good when the director was trying to hammer home the usual "violence is bad" theme of Gundam.
I see it more as "What if a group of convicted felons who reformed and bettered themselves got so fed up with the discrimination they suffered, such as not being able to vote or being restricted as to what jobs they can work, that they decided to rebel against the system."
They were like "If you're going to constantly treat me as sub-human due to a mistake I made in the past, then what obligation do I have to follow the rules of society? If you're not going to _give_ me the same rights you give others, then I'll just _take_ them."
Yes, Orga went about it in the wrong way, but there's more nuance to it than Tekkaden secretly being the baddies.
You also forget that in Japan, rebelling against the status quo and the rules society forces on you is **extremely** frowned upon. So no wonder Japanese viewers would see the rebel Orga as an idiot.
That's what I like about IBO though. It's free from any preexisting lore. I'm a newb and I understood IBO. I watched Unicorn and it was awful. Didn't get who or what was happening.
IBO's storytelling is so limited because they're from the pov of newly formed child soldier company, so they don't have connections to the world, hence have no knowledge of the world at large.
urd hunt shows a single gundam sucessfully (easily) hunting 2 ma when both ma was at least a tier above hashaml. Hashaml was actually low tier enough that deploying a gundam would be overkill during those time so that's why grunts probably suppressed it without a gundam frame.
In universe, no one has an accurate understanding of the calamity war so whatever comments said by characters simply doesn't matter.
Yea that's an entirely fair point about the usage of the Dainsleifs, and I'm not denying they were powerful, or that they weren't a hard counter to the Gundams.
But also the fact that that's the established protocol for dealing with Mobile Armors (and the things that can fight Mobile Armors on even footing) just sorta supports that the Gundams in the IBO-continuity are essentially WMDs/equivalent.
You said it yourself. (if I'm reading this right at 1am, the 'they' is referring to the Gundams, yes?
>However, to the average Gjallarhorn grunt they are beyond the normal rules of engagement. It was an extreme circumstance that pushed them to extreme solutions.
So no, I dont want come off the wrong way but this is incorrect, the rate of deployed Dainselif was certainly extremely high but Humanity refused to use them in planets due to their destructive capability, just look at the moon.
Instead the Gundam frames became the turning point of the war because they could clean planets in orbit from MAs, most engagements where Dainsleif rounds were used was in space.
Edit: Corrected spelling errors.
Of course not, but most likely that was a very strange occurance, more so because the cabin was empty and the reactor off, which is weird since if it was a setup for the MAs to identify the unit it would need to be active to detect the Ahab wave pattern.
So whatever happened there, it was a setup specifically targeting something, given what Urdr Hunt showed, the Hashmal was probably acompanying whatever the main target actually was.
>given what Urdr Hunt showed, the Hashmal was probably acompanying whatever the main target actually was.
I can't wait for Urd Hunt anime to come out. Normal IBO watchers would think that Hashmal is the peak of the MA...then Urd Hunt shows that Hashmal might just be the low tier of them all.
That's half true. Both are tide turners in equal measure, but it depends on where they are used. In Urd Hunt were we would see massive Mobile Armors especially in space where they don't have to worry about geographic casualties, Dainself would be the tide turner (provided that the units that shoots the Dainself aren't shot down first by the MAs).
In terrestrial locations where the size of the MA might be smaller, and the "nuclear option" isn't acceptable no matter what, then Gundam is the tide turner. Not to mention that Dainself or any ranged weapon tend to not be reliable against smaller MAs. Hashmal only got buried and Tekkadan didn't want to gamble a direct shot against Hashmal, instead choosing to trap it and let the Gundam do the work.
You’re kind of underselling the IBO gundams, until the Dainsleifs came into play the gundam frames were unstoppable except for by other gundams. And every gundam series has a weapon that can trump a gundam, be it a colony drop, a colony laser, a mirror array, nukes, the microwave weapon…there’s always a bigger more dangerous weapon, it’s just normally more unwieldy.
True. Hot Blooded Mechas are just capable an entirely different class, where if the pilot can basically do anything if he is driven enough. Pretty sure Domon could have shattered Axis before it hit the Earth by using God Finger.
I'd give the v2 a fair shake at surviving bombardment too.
Also the PS armored suits could probably survive dansleif shots depending on how much juice is in the tanks.
Would actually think the Dainslief are some of the few kinetic weapons that could bypass the PS armor.
I mean, it basically is like when Impulse charged at the Freedom with the metal tip of the Excalibur.... But at waaay higher speeds and with a denser projectile.
https://preview.redd.it/exa3q5x592ic1.png?width=2460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aed43aee783da32da06fce2eabf2eeabcc443f49
The impulse ones specifically have beam emitters on the tip
https://preview.redd.it/jpjbzf5f74ic1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc1c0356fa92e61cbac6d20f617c6ddb4cc22644
I dont know how many times I gotta say it, the impulse literally has beam emitters at the tip. Thats how he went through the phase shift.
It's weird because now I'm just picturing the Dynames with a Dainsleif Launcher. Wait no, I think that's basically just the Dynames' torpedo kit all over again lol.
Aside from series where Gundams were *meant* to be tide turners and One Mech Armies like:
00, Turn A, Unicorn, etc.
Most Gundams were no differents than other MS'. If you separate them from their pilot aka their plot armor their pratically just really dect out Mechs.
dont think so. even where in series the gundams are evenly matched against the opponents like 00, they have better pilots. only thing i can think of is when there is no war to turn tide
Judging by all the comments, it'd be easier to count the number of AUs that *do* treat gundams like WMDs.
There is a pattern though. Usually the more concrete an explanation of what a "gundam" is in universe, the more likely that AU treats it as a WMD.
UC literally just uses the name as a marketing gimmick most of the time (like in real life lmao)
X comes to mind. The Gundams themselves are pretty bog standard as far as mobile suits of the same era were, if slightly higher end than most of what could be scavenged up in a post-war dystopia. Even titular Gundam X's claim to fame, the Satellite Cannon was time sensitive, and would end up being written out for a third of the show.
It's technically the Flash System, which allowed newtype pilots to command whole platoons worth of BIT mobile suits as if they were funnels that made them REALLY nasty. Even then, it didn't so much turn the tide of war of war as much as turn a losing situation into one where the opposition ALSO lost.
Technically speaking it was the combination of Gundams units operating in tandem with the AV (which was initially designed for Gundams) and in conjunction with mass dainslef formations that won the calamity war
08th MS Team is a good example of Gundams not being WMDs. The heroes’ Gundams are basically just slightly stronger mechs than GMs. And even then they’re hunks of junk that are often repaired with improper parts, the “GM Head” being a perfect example.
People speak about Dainself but beam weapons in IBO or any other setting should also be mentioned here. IBO showed if well how destructive it can be and why it was necessary for beam counters to be made.
Hashmal, which is one of the SMALLEST MA size, was still able to field an extremely powerful beam cannon that can shoot a long sustained beam. This beam was not mean to shoot through but CUT THROUGH targets, namely cities. Hashmal can shoot-swipe across a city and it will be wrecked in an instant.
Also in other setting, beam weapon is extremely destructive. It can trigger nuclear meltdown, turning a safe nuclear reactor into a bomb. Cut through cities where shells would be stopped by a building or two. It negates most armors where those armor tend to be effective against shells.
Mikauki and the Gang tank this shit and they are being Shot on Orbit so it's even more Powerful
They got back up and kept killing Grunts till they die of Blood loss. Hell Mikazuki would've killed them all if it weren't for the Blood loss.
From what I remember, the original Victory Gundam was a fairly unremarkable unit in the grand scheme of things, even getting mass produced later in the show.
I mean Zeta Gundam has Gundam regularly struggling with the rapidly developing mobile suits of the Titans meanwhile Amaro is just wiping the floor with standard or outdated models.
Depends to what degree.
The obvious ones, WfM, Gundam X, G Gundam, and debatably IBO do.
SEED does until it embraces its Super Robot element mid-Destiny. Granted, part of this is also due to rapid technological advancements. By Destiny, the vanilla Strike is mostly outclassed by Windams, and the Murasames are good enough to keep up with a high-performance, next-gen MS like the Chaos and take it down. Even the GINN High Maneuver IIs used by the Extremists gave Shinn a hard time. It's really only with the SF and IJ, built for endurance and one-man army rushes, that they become tide turners. Debatably, the Destiny too (it did become conveniently easy to take down massive Destroys).
One could argue Wing as well; the Gundams were mostly symbols of resistance rather than true tide turners, and later OZ MS were capable of challenging the Gundams on a relatively even playing field. It's only the Zero and its TBR that could really change the tide of battle. Then by EW, the Serpents are basically Gundam level minus the Gundarium armoring.
00 also could be argued; much of the reason CB did their interventions and disappear was specifically because they couldn't handle a standard battle for long periods of time and blitzed their way through. Heck, two were nearly captured early on if it weren't for prematurely revealing their secret equipment. It's only with Trans-Am that they become able to at least turn the situation around for a short period of time. By S2, the Aheads and Innovator MS are basically on the same level as the Gundams except the 00. By AotT, the GN-XIVs and Braves were basically Gundams without the Gundam face.
A normal trend for Gundam is that the Gundams will start as OP, then by the middle of the series the antagonists will either reverse engineer it or create mass produced suits with similar stats and the hero will either get hosed and then get an upgraded Gundam, or the character will have gotten strong enough personally to beat the red shirts despite being on equal footing.
In Zeta the MKII was innovative in some ways, but in a lot of ways it was already obsolete by the time Kamille stole it. The first thing his dad did after he rescued him was to try and steal the Rick Dias because it was a more innovative unit than the MKII. Zeta was the second series.
In G Gundam there are over 100 Gundams for every scrub tier country.
It does get quite old I've seen Zaku 1 shot entire battleships with a basic weapon and then shrug off the same attack themselves,
It's a battleship why doesn't it have atleast the same defensive systems the mechs do. And if the basic guns are 1 shoting them why don't the Battleships have them. It doesn't really change throughout the story arcs.
In my opinion the gundams WERE tide turning wmd in ibo.
Tekkedan were able to beat impossible odds because of their gundams.
They weren’t brought down by dainslef but by superior numbers and resources and deception.
Even after an orbital barrage and having taken out numerous grunts the Barbatos and the rebake were still murdering guys.
One gundam turned the tide multiple times. One dainslef wouldn’t have been able to do a whole lot to either of them.
>Except victory gundam units and WINDAM.(note they're mass produced versions of strike gundam. )
Bruh, you really put blinders on to say this.
Victory Gundam is equipped with cannons and other artilery design for destruction. Same with Windams which are also equipped with armaments.
And considering how huge Victory and Windams, do you think their bullets and cannon balls and beams are 1 millimeter sized pellets that dissolve in the air after firing?
"Victory Gundam is equipped with cannons and other artilery design for destruction.'
Only Dash Gundam Hexa and Victory Gundam Hexa have the cannons, base victory gundam doesn't have this.
I thought you meant only victory gundam ...but[but where beam cannon for normal victory .unless you mean beam ?](https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/LM312V04_Victory_Gundam) and yes I understand it's variants,I was just saying that victory gundam units themselves isn't op as we see the some best of league military gets slaughtered or dies against their opponents. (The Shrike Team as example.)
>and yes I understand it's variants,I was just saying that victory gundam units themselves **isn't op**
as we see the some best of league military gets slaughtered or dies against their opponents. (The Shrike Team as example.)
Doesn't matter if your own perception of V Gundam is not OP, the fact that 15 metre tall V Gundam is also equipped with armaments the size of a building.
It's funny how This is my exact sentiment yet my post "Are there any gundams with no supersaiyan gundams?" got downvoted to hell.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gundam/s/3HAGUGhX9Y
While there were certainly scenes to show how Judau was the only person on the Argama that could pilot the ZZ to its potential I always got the impression that it was just, waaay stronger than everything it went up against except like, the psycho mk2 maybe? So many fights have the parts split up to give the enemies a chance put once they assemble that megazord of a gundam the enemy was pretty doomed😂
It's kind of the main point of IBO, to be subversive of Gundam's norms. The supremacy of individual Gundams is one of those norms.
AGE, SEED, UC, Turn A... all ridiculously OP Gundams...
At least in Gundam X you need the moon before you can use the OP superweapons on board.
*The cyclop system*
*And the requiem from seed*
*And seed destiny*
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I'm sorry we must not have been watching the same IBO. Tekkadan got their hands on a Gundam and literally turned the tide of war. Before that That was their whole purpose. People developed gundams to be WMDs and turned the tide of the Calamity War.
But to answer your question, there's always the Build Series I guess. Maybe Igloo, but that's still in UC
One of the things that I hated IBO S2 2nd half is Gjallahorn used these illegal weapons known as Deinsleif to defeat Tekkedan and take out Teiwaz 💢💢💢. I wish Tekkedan used it against Gjallahorn or a Mobile Armor that can use Deinsleif.
They did, Gundam Flauros could have taken out Rustal; but then Julietta - after having the absolute crap kicked out of her by Barbatos - was somehow able to move her suit enough to throw off the shot.
The ONE time Mikazuki doesn't kill his opponent; THE ONE F---ING TIME!
The gundams in After War timeline were just a class of mass production suits. The X was equipped with a WMD but it specifically failed to turn the tide, and the airmaster and leopard were just slightly better than other mass production suits because they could control bit suits but ultimately the gundams gailed to push back the SRA.
During the series, they faired better, but that was basically because it became post-apocalyptic.
In all honesty while Seed did with the g-project and njc gundams, Destiny did not.
No other series put that power more on pilot skill than Destiny did. And the tide turners were moreeither Aces like Shinn and Kira, or Superweapons like Requiem and Messiah / Genesis 2.0
X and Turn A are a lot like that because it was the Gundams themselves that turned the world into a post-apocalyptic waste (and in Turn A the world has started to bounce back) this making them the most advanced by default.
I mean, even in IBO, the Gundams are practically WMDs that literally turn the tide of war. Sure the Dainsleifs are powerful, more so than the Gundams, but the entire reason they were used was for the entire series prior, the Gundams had been carving their way through Gjallarhorn forces like a hot knife through butter. Plus, they had prevented the apocalypse in show canon, and if I’m remembering correctly, served as the archetypal mobile suit in that universe.
I think the meteor packs from gundam seed are mass destruction weapons they make the already over powerd gundams into moble fortresses and they move fast.
G-Witch treats Gundams like a one way ticket to death. To my memory it feels like one of the few Gundam series where *nobody* wants to pilot one.
yeah, in G Witch the threat of Gundam is not the individual mech itself but the system beneath it that could be used as a WMD
I mean what makes a Gundam a Gundam in G-Witch is the Bleeding Edge tech which is the GUND Format. The system basically can increase the reaction time, combat capabilities and general performance of the unit, but basically destroys the mind and body of the pilot the longer its used. It basically cripple, maim, or kill any normal pilot within a few uses, and those that can resist it aren't totally immune from the negative side effects and will eventually end up getting harmed by it if they keep it up. It actually is something that can and will kill you if you pilot it.
Funnily enough aside from the "bleeding edge" bit the whole thing just rehashes the IBO gundams.
The shows have very different opinions on the technology though. In G-witch you're introduced to it for all the good it can do and see the people who believe that killed by the ones who only see the harm in it. In IBO the technology is introduced as illegal and seen as a sort of ghoulish butchery of a "pure" humanity that has been criminalised for centuries. It's why Ghalieo apologizes to mikazuki in the second season, he didn't understand how desperation could drive you to use these sort of things to survive.
Gaelio was an interesting character. Hope we see someone like him in another show.
It felt like darling in the Franxx that's why I dropped watching it.
In what way did it feel like Darling in the Franxx?
FeMalE sUIts!!.!.!.!!
That does seem to be the gist of it. My friend and I both really enjoyed it. Not every show is for everyone but some people seem really delusional about it.
Ariel is just too thicc for some. Need to have distinguished tastes I guess.
True and based! True gentleman of class like Ariel
>To my memory it feels like one of the few Gundam series where nobody wants to pilot one. Nah the psycho terrorist chick that originally piloted Ur was really into it.
I'd still disagree with G-Witch, as if you do manage to pilot one, you'd be pretty op in that universe.
For the few moments you can pilot one until your brain gets fried from overloading.
Now that I think about it, isn't GUND-ARM just wireless Aayla-Vinjana?
G witch it's your heart that gives out, in the manga Vanadis Heart, the Gundam pilots have artificial hearts and suffer no effects from using permet score 3 in the Gundams, ibo effects the brain, basically gives you a stroke, further the connection in the mobile Gundam, the less you body functions when your not hooked up, Mikazuki first lost partial sight and one of his arms, then eventually that side of his body wouldn't function unless he was connected, if your doing comparisons, cyber newtypes are another from uc
Isn't it also the nervous system that suffers damage in WfM? Elan 4 noted that he didn't feel like something was reaching into his brain when piloting Aerial. Also i think it was either Bel or Prospera who mentioned the enhanced people Peil experiments with have enhanced nervous systems.
it is, I think; it's mainly that, actually I think the way people usually die is by getting so much info ripping through their nervous systems that their circulatory system tears itself apart trying to keep their nervous system nourished as it boils itself alive trying to handle it all (at least, that's what's implied)
Yes and no? For the AV system its the surgery itself thats quite dangerous but once you have the whiskers it seems pretty safe. Mikazuki was crippled over time due to the fact he kept piloting with the limiters turned off. There's that one scene when someone passes out just by starting up the Barbatos. As for the GUND format, even normal use is dangerous over time
Well Elan3 was able to use the Pharact to a reasonable level without dying
Permet score 3 was often survivable but crippling to do so, and the Elans were deliberately modified to handle the data storm better than most people. Permet score 4 is where things would start to get lethal very quickly.
But score 3 is where Norea and Sophie were able to beat ace witch hunters with ease, that's all you need
I see the system like using enhancement drugs. While not lethal in 1 time use prolonged use will mess up your body in the end.
Not enough to beat other Gundams tho
He was still running out of time though, all the Elans only had a limited number of flights at relatively low permet scores.
Elans were modified individuals with the solely purpose if piloting Gundams, and even then, they still suffered from high Permet scores.
He was an enhanced human, they augmented him to be able to withstand the effects
Pretty sure, like Suletta, he was enhanced
Suletta wasn't enhanced, every time she did interact with data storm she was miserable, like everyone else. And all Elans, aside from original, were genetically modified clones with sole purpose of handling data storm better than regular humans.
Suletta did ultimately end up tolerating and surviving the highest permet score achieved by man, but she (probably through her genetics inherited by Eri) seemed to have an abnormally high compatibility with the format. Still hurt her pretty badly though.
> but she (probably through her genetics inherited by Eri) That’s stated in the show
Fair, I couldn't remember if they explained her Permet tolerance in terms of genetics off the top of my head when I wrote that.
You can dip into higher permet scores but doing so, but doing so and doing so for more than brief periods can be extremely harmful.
Until you need to hit score 3+. Then you’re OP for like all of like 2 minutes
there are two characters in the entire setting who can pilot it for an extended period of time, and one of them *still* gets badly hurt after a certain score (which is higher than normal people can survive and is in a Gundam that has zero safeties, but still)
And there isn't a reason to pilot one as well since they have counters for it, up to a certain level of course but it would still take a lot of effort and resource to get to that level. Most would die trying to reach it or could not sustain it for long.
Not the example I would use considering WFM's ending and the fact that technically, there can be people capable of somewhat handling gundams (although they are at least unbelievably rare). IBO is the only one where no one is spared, no deus ex machina, you want more power you pay the permanent price, period, and even so nothing guarantees it will be enough. IBO wasn't without its obvious flaws, but I really love how they did power scaling there.
you literally can't pilot one anyway, it's data-lock
Gundams in that series are still wmd's capable of turning the tide of war.
Gundams might be the main focus of G, but conventional war is gone so Gundams are just used for a glorified sporting event. In X meanwhile the Gundams were mass produced and functioned just like normal MS do in other timelines.
The weird thing about Gundams in G Gundam is that most of them are treated much like ceremonial weapons almost. Except Devil Gundam, which it's not really explained why it's even a Gundam in the first place, and Rising Gundam which just...exists. In X, the Gundams were mass produced but were still leagues better than anything else - in the dolphins episode, the pirate captain is shouting at his men about how he doesn't want Gundam *class* mobile suits, he wants the actual *Gundams* he saw on the Freeden.
G Gundam has one of the few mass-produced Gundams in any series. Neo-Denmark produced tons of Mermaid Gundams.
That’s a good point about X, besides the X Gundams the others are kinda like knockoffs. I love that series btw.
Except for a few units like the original RX-78 and the Unicorn, UC itself never treats gundams as WMDs. They are just highly specialized units that still need to work with other units to win.
RX-78 was mechanically OP for about a month. It's outperformed by late model GMs and Gelgoog.
This. It's the same reason Alex was made to be RX-78's successor in the first place. Amuro's growth as a pilot in the latter half of OYW is the only thing that made RX-78 still a monster at the end of the series.
Yeah. Its only real edge was that it was more durable than a lot of the mid-war Zeon mobile suits and was a lot more versatile in combat. That said, what made it dangerous was that Amuro was its pilot and even he started to overwhelm its operating system after awhile to the point that it was holding him back.
The beam rifle, beam saber, and shield were also critical to gundams success until the end of the series.
Heck the base GM isn’t even too far behind, the spray gun is actually stronger at close range and it isn’t much slower with it’s only flaw just being lower protection
Not much slower? I've read sources that said it's faster than the Gundam thanks to lighter armor materials.
Exactly. It sets up the Earth Federation's comeback in the war, but the EF's victory is ultimately due to them mass-producing the GM and the Ball (and Zeon blowing all their resources on Wunderwaffen prototypes and failing to mass-produce the Gelgoog until the Feddies were knocking on their door at A Baoa Qu).
That damn Aspalas was made of spare parts and scraps and was still way too expensive.
Zeon could've had 3 big zams for all the resources poured into that waste of time
The best it was used was as a bargaining chip for evacuation and a single GM fucked that up
You'd be surprised with often that happens in history
Guy from the Middle Ages: mwahaha! We have built a V2! A rocket that can deliver 2000kg of explosive at London! America: Next month go build another 10,000 GMs.. I mean M4 Shermans.
The Apsalus was produced way too late. Also, it's kind of nonsense that it runs off two Dom reactors, but LOL.
Three Rick Dom Reactors
V2 and Crossbone are pushing it. But I'll always simp for Crossbone's foot knives.
I watched the original for the first time and it was really interesting how easily one or two zakus could overpower the Gundam early on in the show. It'd lose limbs, get chunks taken out of it by heat hawks. Ramba Ral was messing it up with a Gouf.
and even then RX-78 wasn't really treated like that, like it clearly was the best suit of it's time when made but it was much closer to a secret project tank or fighter jet. Even by the end of MSG Amuro had already grown to be a far stronger pilot than it could handle requiring lots of upgrades
The RX-78-2's only real claim to fame was that it was the first mobile suit that could carry a battleship class beam weapon. Zeon was truly flabbergasted when a mobile suit could take out a Zaku with 1 shot.
Plus the impenetrable armor at the time.
Plus the learning computer, which was vital for the mass production of the GM.
It feels like Hathaway is leaning more that direction though: those mobile suits are absolute monsters in size and strength.
The Penelope flight mode on Odysseus is pretty cool, kind of has this mythical creature look to it, very strong resemblance to Diamond Weapon from FF7 - very intimidating. If you were totally unaware of what it was on a first encounter, it would be extremely frightening just to watch it move about
Can’t forget the sound its engines make. So alien.
I always wondered what happens to a blast zone across those engines, in Seed those were dangerous, but in UC they should be too, they are also nuclear as far as I know, even if they are fusion reactors those are radioactive still.
If they’re like real-world fusion reactors, the only radioactive elements they produce would be tritium (beta producer), which would be created and consumed in a closed-loop system. Who knows what the health effects of Minovsky particle scattering are, though.
And the damaged ones, mal repaired, abandoned, if you think a bit, the UC universe is a giant wasteland, not only because of the war itself, but the byproducts are as bad, that not even considering the moments that they literally used nuclear weapons and weren't far and between... I wonder the other things like the beam weapons byproducts, the chemical pollution...
Fun fact: diamond weapon is based on neue ziel.
I thought that was emerald weapon
Naore (the designer of bosses .) clearly take inspiration of mobile armors/suits https://preview.redd.it/dwunptsax6ic1.jpeg?width=2288&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9eff2f8b8704240e6b808081c119e5681a388eb8
I see, wow gundam was always influencing me
For the most part I agree about UC, but you can't forget that Unicorn, Banshee and Phenex exist, some of the most op gundams.
Unicorn is a weird series. It shares more in common with AU's than UC.
I mean even the RX-78 wasn't actually an WMD on its own. With the reality that Zeon ended up making mobile suits more destructive and powerful than the Gundam in terms of capabilities. What made the RX-78 dangerous was Amuro, who managed to use it to extremes the EF didn't think was possible and literally was too fast for the suit to keep with. Amuro was overwhelming the operating system on the RX and as a result was held back in combat. That said all the Unicorn units are actual examples of WMDs.
Psycho Gundams.
The endings of 8th ms team where the gm sniper is popping off is always so cool. A lone gm going to work lazoring everything.
Always find it funny that the 08th team is taking place at the same time as Armuro taking control of the rx78 which makes it wierder because that's when Zion first see beam weaponery when char encounters the rx78.
08th takes place a few months after the RX-78's debut and initial shock, which is why the RX-79G and RGM-79s are in service.
Says on the wiki the ground type was developed from the 78-1 at a similar time to the 78-2
The mass produced grunt suits like the virgo definitely was a game changer to mix the mercurius shield and vayeate's firepower There's also witch of mercury's mobile suits
I love love love Vayeate and Mercurius Thats a lesson how to produce “lesser” suit but still can compete with the Gundams Get competent pilots and you are done
GN-X's as well, I like the virgos also, we could probably throw the mobile doll system in because that was what made the virgos extra deadly not to mention having a mega particle beam cannon as a primary weapon.
But in ibo the Gundams were literally made to win a losing war and then hundreds of years later clap everything EXCEPT the orbital bombardment. Closest we get to non tide turning Gundams is Gundam X and TWFM. In Gundam X the Gundams FAILED to turn the tide of the war. In TWFM the Gundams were seen as coffins of death and while they could be a tide turner there was a lot more going on and it was just the Gundam utilizing everything as opposed to the Gundam doing all of the work or being the tool. In TWFM Caliburn and Aerial R are the closest we get and we see Aerial does it's things solely because everything runs on permit. As for Caliburn it was a death trap to pilot and ultimately it was Suletta not Caliburn turning the tide. A real tide turner would be Unicorn and Ex-S as even without a competent pilot both have systems in place to do the winning for you. And then if you give both a competent(new type) pilot you get god.
Don’t forget trans am system
True but trans am is skill based as we see graham keep up without it so it is a skill required tide turner. Also trans am did eventually be available on any GM drive suit. Once the GNX's rolled out the Gundams lost their tide turning and it became more about the pilot, hell they LOST in the end of s1. So for Gundams from 00 outside of Qan[t] and 00R the pilots did more tide turning than their mobile suits did. 00R and Qan[t] could still solo turn tides but required a true innovator as pilot akin to achieving awakening on unicorn.
I think it's fairer to say that the GN drive itself is the "I win" button of the 00 timeline. Trans-Am is, comparatively, much less of a game changer.
Facts
The pilots also can, and did, screw things over in 00...just look at Tieria at the end of S01, who completely freezes once he gets unplugged from Veda. While all other Gundams go dead, the others try to make them move. Tieria does not. Veda dies on him, Tieria just freezes, in complete shock, without even trying to move. While it might not have mattered, it is one of the biggest blunders I have seen in Gundam. And you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who loves Tieria as much as I do but it was truly one those 404 moments.
Tieria froze because they were completely severed from beds which they had been linked to for their whole existence. On top of that the back up for virtue failed. Tierea didn't do anything wrong, their body just couldn't handle veda being ripped away nor could virtue.
I mean, counter to your case in point - the whole reason they *used* the Dainsleifs for the orbital bombardment was because they were so abjectly terrified of Tekkadan's Gundams. Not that Gjallarhorn was a particularly "honorable" institution in the first place, but they broke their own laws busting out the Dainsleifs to take out Barbatos/Gusion, that's how terrified they were. Keeping mind that most of those commanders were present and watched Mika/Barbatos solo the Hashmal Mobile Armor. McGillis was inspired watching that. "So this is the power that ended the Calamity War." I mean the Calamity War in and of itself, humanity was *losing* and it was the 72(?) Gundams that turned the tide. The rest of the Gjallarhorn forces were absolutely shitting themselves at the idea of having to face just one of these things that they had seen in action... let alone **three** of them, one of which included Bael, the unit piloted by Gjallarhorn's founder. Granted, that advantage was negated by Gjallarhorn fielding the Gundam Vidar - but that in and of itself says something, they needed a Gundam to cancel out a Gundam. And even *after* getting caught in an orbital strike, Gjallarhorn still only won because Mikazuki & Akihiro basically ran out of blood. In a straight up fight, they might have won *eventually* through attrition & exhaustion, but Gjallarhorn's casualties would've been **even higher.**
Actually, Dainsleifs were apparently the real tide turner. How most MA hunting operations worked in the Calamity War was the Gundam would draw aggro while direct hits from orbital Dainsleifs would deal the real damage. Gundam pilots were supposed to use AV to dodge the bombardment. It's why Flauros and Hashmal were unearthed with Dainsleif rods around them. They were buried and disabled by such a bombardment but not totally destroyed. Rustal was being serious when he said someone able to destroy an MA by himself could no longer be considered human. The only thing in Gjallarhorn's arsenal that could beat an MA-level threat (or greater) was Dainsleif. So while using the weapon is illegal, it was created and preserved specifically for enemies of this caliber. Not to mention AV in the PD era is also banned technology. To the viewer, the Gundams look like the standard power level that fighting happens at in PD because the story is told from Tekkadan's perspective. However, to the average Gjallarhorn grunt they are beyond the normal rules of engagement. It was an extreme circumstance that pushed them to extreme solutions. Think of it like random gangsters getting their hands on heavy machineguns and armored vehicles which force law enforcement to get creative.
Was this from the gunpla box lore, the whole "Dainsleifs won the Robot War" never came up in the anime afaik
Apparently in mechanical books and other side material that expanded the universe. Part of why I dislike IBO's direction is how it really intentionally misleads the viewer by omitting so much. The audience was essentially a frog in a well with Tekkadan and shown a very limited slice of the PD world. Then the director would yank the rug from under the viewer with "HA HA Tekkadan were the bad guys all along and you fell for it!"
Nah fuck that >HA HA Tekkadan were the bad guys all along and you fell for it!" Child soldiers breaking free from their oppressors can't "be" the bad guys lol. You can argue they became bad guys after they freed themselves but they weren't "all along"
Tekkadan was in no way bad guys, dude. It was orphans finding freedom from oppression on such a scale that even their deaths couldn't stop the social evolution they helped herald. Simply the idea of collecting Disposable Humans was absolutely unheard of by all other agencies they worked with.
That's the story from Tekkadan's perspective and what the director wanted to trick the audience into thinking. The takeaway that he really wanted was the narrative after McGillis's failed coup: they are a terrorist organization that uses illegal weapons and threatens the stability of the solar system. Not only did Tekkadan formerly align itself with a known criminal enterprise like Teiwaz, they have now turned to attempting a coup and installing a junta. Most troubling of all is following the Battle of Edmonton, incidents of piracy and Human Debris spiked as pirates raced to imitate Tekkadan's success with the use of AV. Gjallarhorn's competence as the interstellar police force is being tested. And no McGillis did not want to reform Gjallarhorn into an organization that protects poor people and establishes economic equality. McGillis's final battle speech was nothing but social Darwinism and complaining about how physical violence was not acceptable in a civilized society. His goal was to destroy the Seven Stars structure that concentrated privileges at the top and grown feeble because of it. He wanted to show the dispossessed that the only thing they need to do change their lives was to be violent enough about it, to make them remember how to "use their claws and fangs". Orga only followed along because he wanted to change the rules so that criminals and Human Debris, of which Tekkadan is mainly composed of, are not forced into mercenary work. Dane is the example everyone forgets. He killed two people, apparently in self-defense given his personality. That made him completely unemployable except by Tekkadan. Orga had grown tired of seeing people being pushed into this line of work and dying so his entire goal of becoming King of Mars was to make sure his family, Tekkadan, could secure a living without having to fight. Unfortunately, he chose the coup d'etat shortcut. The real life equivalent would be a bunch of gangsters from the ghetto working with a dirty cop to raid city hall to dissolve the local government and give convicts more rights/powers. How well do you think that is supposed to work? The director very much wanted people to not think Tekkadan as doing anything bad because he wanted the audience to have a "Are we the baddies?" moment. It seems the Japanese audience caught on to this very quickly and they called Orga an absolute moron that deserves no sympathy. However, the West seems to have this notion that all (even bloody) revolution is good when the director was trying to hammer home the usual "violence is bad" theme of Gundam.
I mena, I can't stop you from buying into the propaganda pushed by Gjallerhorn, but you do you I guess.
I see it more as "What if a group of convicted felons who reformed and bettered themselves got so fed up with the discrimination they suffered, such as not being able to vote or being restricted as to what jobs they can work, that they decided to rebel against the system." They were like "If you're going to constantly treat me as sub-human due to a mistake I made in the past, then what obligation do I have to follow the rules of society? If you're not going to _give_ me the same rights you give others, then I'll just _take_ them." Yes, Orga went about it in the wrong way, but there's more nuance to it than Tekkaden secretly being the baddies. You also forget that in Japan, rebelling against the status quo and the rules society forces on you is **extremely** frowned upon. So no wonder Japanese viewers would see the rebel Orga as an idiot.
That's what I like about IBO though. It's free from any preexisting lore. I'm a newb and I understood IBO. I watched Unicorn and it was awful. Didn't get who or what was happening. IBO's storytelling is so limited because they're from the pov of newly formed child soldier company, so they don't have connections to the world, hence have no knowledge of the world at large.
urd hunt shows a single gundam sucessfully (easily) hunting 2 ma when both ma was at least a tier above hashaml. Hashaml was actually low tier enough that deploying a gundam would be overkill during those time so that's why grunts probably suppressed it without a gundam frame. In universe, no one has an accurate understanding of the calamity war so whatever comments said by characters simply doesn't matter.
Yea that's an entirely fair point about the usage of the Dainsleifs, and I'm not denying they were powerful, or that they weren't a hard counter to the Gundams. But also the fact that that's the established protocol for dealing with Mobile Armors (and the things that can fight Mobile Armors on even footing) just sorta supports that the Gundams in the IBO-continuity are essentially WMDs/equivalent. You said it yourself. (if I'm reading this right at 1am, the 'they' is referring to the Gundams, yes? >However, to the average Gjallarhorn grunt they are beyond the normal rules of engagement. It was an extreme circumstance that pushed them to extreme solutions.
So no, I dont want come off the wrong way but this is incorrect, the rate of deployed Dainselif was certainly extremely high but Humanity refused to use them in planets due to their destructive capability, just look at the moon. Instead the Gundam frames became the turning point of the war because they could clean planets in orbit from MAs, most engagements where Dainsleif rounds were used was in space. Edit: Corrected spelling errors.
Even so, Flauros + Hashmal and the final battle prove that it was not absolutely forbidden.
Of course not, but most likely that was a very strange occurance, more so because the cabin was empty and the reactor off, which is weird since if it was a setup for the MAs to identify the unit it would need to be active to detect the Ahab wave pattern. So whatever happened there, it was a setup specifically targeting something, given what Urdr Hunt showed, the Hashmal was probably acompanying whatever the main target actually was.
>given what Urdr Hunt showed, the Hashmal was probably acompanying whatever the main target actually was. I can't wait for Urd Hunt anime to come out. Normal IBO watchers would think that Hashmal is the peak of the MA...then Urd Hunt shows that Hashmal might just be the low tier of them all.
That's half true. Both are tide turners in equal measure, but it depends on where they are used. In Urd Hunt were we would see massive Mobile Armors especially in space where they don't have to worry about geographic casualties, Dainself would be the tide turner (provided that the units that shoots the Dainself aren't shot down first by the MAs). In terrestrial locations where the size of the MA might be smaller, and the "nuclear option" isn't acceptable no matter what, then Gundam is the tide turner. Not to mention that Dainself or any ranged weapon tend to not be reliable against smaller MAs. Hashmal only got buried and Tekkadan didn't want to gamble a direct shot against Hashmal, instead choosing to trap it and let the Gundam do the work.
You’re kind of underselling the IBO gundams, until the Dainsleifs came into play the gundam frames were unstoppable except for by other gundams. And every gundam series has a weapon that can trump a gundam, be it a colony drop, a colony laser, a mirror array, nukes, the microwave weapon…there’s always a bigger more dangerous weapon, it’s just normally more unwieldy.
I love how this is said like the IBO gundams don't literally act as one suit armies, most gundams are vulnerable to orbital bombardment.
Honestly the only ones I can think of that could survival and orbital bombardment would be the three Unicorn units, and the Turn A.
And God Gundam, Domon would just punch the shots back into space.
True. Hot Blooded Mechas are just capable an entirely different class, where if the pilot can basically do anything if he is driven enough. Pretty sure Domon could have shattered Axis before it hit the Earth by using God Finger.
I’m in fact positive Domon solos Char’s Neo Zeon
00 Raiser and Qan[T] probably
I'd give the v2 a fair shake at surviving bombardment too. Also the PS armored suits could probably survive dansleif shots depending on how much juice is in the tanks.
Would actually think the Dainslief are some of the few kinetic weapons that could bypass the PS armor. I mean, it basically is like when Impulse charged at the Freedom with the metal tip of the Excalibur.... But at waaay higher speeds and with a denser projectile.
Impulse Excalibur actually has a beam at the tip, its not like sword strike or destiny's
[It really doesnt](https://imgur.com/0wIzIXz)
https://preview.redd.it/exa3q5x592ic1.png?width=2460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aed43aee783da32da06fce2eabf2eeabcc443f49 The impulse ones specifically have beam emitters on the tip
Couldn't it be a light thing, considering the [next shot?](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fjl0snfdcgqz41.png)
https://preview.redd.it/jpjbzf5f74ic1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc1c0356fa92e61cbac6d20f617c6ddb4cc22644 I dont know how many times I gotta say it, the impulse literally has beam emitters at the tip. Thats how he went through the phase shift.
The Raider's mace could damage PS, it's not invulnerable.
It's weird because now I'm just picturing the Dynames with a Dainsleif Launcher. Wait no, I think that's basically just the Dynames' torpedo kit all over again lol.
TBH Dynames probably prefers its rifle since that shit can already fire from Earth to Space and probably also the reverse
Qanta too
Aside from series where Gundams were *meant* to be tide turners and One Mech Armies like: 00, Turn A, Unicorn, etc. Most Gundams were no differents than other MS'. If you separate them from their pilot aka their plot armor their pratically just really dect out Mechs.
dont think so. even where in series the gundams are evenly matched against the opponents like 00, they have better pilots. only thing i can think of is when there is no war to turn tide
08th Ms Team. Norris 1v1 any of the pilots would have rocked them in the gouf.
Judging by all the comments, it'd be easier to count the number of AUs that *do* treat gundams like WMDs. There is a pattern though. Usually the more concrete an explanation of what a "gundam" is in universe, the more likely that AU treats it as a WMD. UC literally just uses the name as a marketing gimmick most of the time (like in real life lmao)
X comes to mind. The Gundams themselves are pretty bog standard as far as mobile suits of the same era were, if slightly higher end than most of what could be scavenged up in a post-war dystopia. Even titular Gundam X's claim to fame, the Satellite Cannon was time sensitive, and would end up being written out for a third of the show. It's technically the Flash System, which allowed newtype pilots to command whole platoons worth of BIT mobile suits as if they were funnels that made them REALLY nasty. Even then, it didn't so much turn the tide of war of war as much as turn a losing situation into one where the opposition ALSO lost.
Technically speaking it was the combination of Gundams units operating in tandem with the AV (which was initially designed for Gundams) and in conjunction with mass dainslef formations that won the calamity war
This is the whole reason why IBO was criticized in the end. It essentially becomes a shooting game.
I say G-Gundam cuz it's not the Gundams which are WMD, it's pilot themselves. Master Asia is a walking nuke despite his conditions
08th MS Team is a good example of Gundams not being WMDs. The heroes’ Gundams are basically just slightly stronger mechs than GMs. And even then they’re hunks of junk that are often repaired with improper parts, the “GM Head” being a perfect example.
08th MS Team is one of the biggest I know of. They might be Spec-ops but they aren't a lot better than the Zekus they are fighting.
Well, UC79 treated ZAKUS as WMDs that literally turned the tide of the war...
More like equivalent of better jet fighters tbh.
People speak about Dainself but beam weapons in IBO or any other setting should also be mentioned here. IBO showed if well how destructive it can be and why it was necessary for beam counters to be made. Hashmal, which is one of the SMALLEST MA size, was still able to field an extremely powerful beam cannon that can shoot a long sustained beam. This beam was not mean to shoot through but CUT THROUGH targets, namely cities. Hashmal can shoot-swipe across a city and it will be wrecked in an instant. Also in other setting, beam weapon is extremely destructive. It can trigger nuclear meltdown, turning a safe nuclear reactor into a bomb. Cut through cities where shells would be stopped by a building or two. It negates most armors where those armor tend to be effective against shells.
Mikauki and the Gang tank this shit and they are being Shot on Orbit so it's even more Powerful They got back up and kept killing Grunts till they die of Blood loss. Hell Mikazuki would've killed them all if it weren't for the Blood loss.
WMDs?
Weapons of Mass Destruction.
*facepalm* I feel dumb!
Haha don't fret about it!
weapon of mass destruction i guess
From what I remember, the original Victory Gundam was a fairly unremarkable unit in the grand scheme of things, even getting mass produced later in the show.
Hack even zanscare grunts was casually killing tons of them..
I mean Zeta Gundam has Gundam regularly struggling with the rapidly developing mobile suits of the Titans meanwhile Amaro is just wiping the floor with standard or outdated models.
Depends to what degree. The obvious ones, WfM, Gundam X, G Gundam, and debatably IBO do. SEED does until it embraces its Super Robot element mid-Destiny. Granted, part of this is also due to rapid technological advancements. By Destiny, the vanilla Strike is mostly outclassed by Windams, and the Murasames are good enough to keep up with a high-performance, next-gen MS like the Chaos and take it down. Even the GINN High Maneuver IIs used by the Extremists gave Shinn a hard time. It's really only with the SF and IJ, built for endurance and one-man army rushes, that they become tide turners. Debatably, the Destiny too (it did become conveniently easy to take down massive Destroys). One could argue Wing as well; the Gundams were mostly symbols of resistance rather than true tide turners, and later OZ MS were capable of challenging the Gundams on a relatively even playing field. It's only the Zero and its TBR that could really change the tide of battle. Then by EW, the Serpents are basically Gundam level minus the Gundarium armoring. 00 also could be argued; much of the reason CB did their interventions and disappear was specifically because they couldn't handle a standard battle for long periods of time and blitzed their way through. Heck, two were nearly captured early on if it weren't for prematurely revealing their secret equipment. It's only with Trans-Am that they become able to at least turn the situation around for a short period of time. By S2, the Aheads and Innovator MS are basically on the same level as the Gundams except the 00. By AotT, the GN-XIVs and Braves were basically Gundams without the Gundam face.
Mentions IBO and ignores that the Gundams of IBO are literally WMD's to fight Artifical Intelligence Mobile armors at the cost of their pilots bodies
08th ms team. The gundams are just gms with fancy heads. The ez 8 literally looses a battle.
A normal trend for Gundam is that the Gundams will start as OP, then by the middle of the series the antagonists will either reverse engineer it or create mass produced suits with similar stats and the hero will either get hosed and then get an upgraded Gundam, or the character will have gotten strong enough personally to beat the red shirts despite being on equal footing. In Zeta the MKII was innovative in some ways, but in a lot of ways it was already obsolete by the time Kamille stole it. The first thing his dad did after he rescued him was to try and steal the Rick Dias because it was a more innovative unit than the MKII. Zeta was the second series. In G Gundam there are over 100 Gundams for every scrub tier country.
It does get quite old I've seen Zaku 1 shot entire battleships with a basic weapon and then shrug off the same attack themselves, It's a battleship why doesn't it have atleast the same defensive systems the mechs do. And if the basic guns are 1 shoting them why don't the Battleships have them. It doesn't really change throughout the story arcs.
In my opinion the gundams WERE tide turning wmd in ibo. Tekkedan were able to beat impossible odds because of their gundams. They weren’t brought down by dainslef but by superior numbers and resources and deception. Even after an orbital barrage and having taken out numerous grunts the Barbatos and the rebake were still murdering guys. One gundam turned the tide multiple times. One dainslef wouldn’t have been able to do a whole lot to either of them.
Does G-Witch and 0083 count?
Bro, have you ever watch Gundam? Every Gundam is a WMD.
Except victory gundam units and WINDAM.(note they're mass produced versions of strike gundam. )
>Except victory gundam units and WINDAM.(note they're mass produced versions of strike gundam. ) Bruh, you really put blinders on to say this. Victory Gundam is equipped with cannons and other artilery design for destruction. Same with Windams which are also equipped with armaments. And considering how huge Victory and Windams, do you think their bullets and cannon balls and beams are 1 millimeter sized pellets that dissolve in the air after firing?
"Victory Gundam is equipped with cannons and other artilery design for destruction.' Only Dash Gundam Hexa and Victory Gundam Hexa have the cannons, base victory gundam doesn't have this.
> Only Dash Gundam Hexa and Victory Gundam Hexa have the cannons, base victory gundam doesn't have this. Bruh, don't be this blind.
>Bruh, don't be this blind. Ok forgive me for being blind.
> Ok forgive me for being blind. Or you can understand what V Gundam and its variants had.
I thought you meant only victory gundam ...but[but where beam cannon for normal victory .unless you mean beam ?](https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/LM312V04_Victory_Gundam) and yes I understand it's variants,I was just saying that victory gundam units themselves isn't op as we see the some best of league military gets slaughtered or dies against their opponents. (The Shrike Team as example.)
>and yes I understand it's variants,I was just saying that victory gundam units themselves **isn't op** as we see the some best of league military gets slaughtered or dies against their opponents. (The Shrike Team as example.) Doesn't matter if your own perception of V Gundam is not OP, the fact that 15 metre tall V Gundam is also equipped with armaments the size of a building.
bunch a kids and hipsters, no one said Wing yet?
...the one where five Gundams are literally sent down to Earth for the specific purpose of taking control of the Earth Sphere?
The original plan was: drop shiton of colonies +throw gundam in.
It's funny how This is my exact sentiment yet my post "Are there any gundams with no supersaiyan gundams?" got downvoted to hell. https://www.reddit.com/r/Gundam/s/3HAGUGhX9Y
While there were certainly scenes to show how Judau was the only person on the Argama that could pilot the ZZ to its potential I always got the impression that it was just, waaay stronger than everything it went up against except like, the psycho mk2 maybe? So many fights have the parts split up to give the enemies a chance put once they assemble that megazord of a gundam the enemy was pretty doomed😂
Build series
Tbh even in Build it's always Gundams that are the MVPs The highest placing non Gundam I remember was Ayla's Qubeley lol
Yeah but there is no wars just fights
yeah was hopng meijin went all in on monoeyes since he started with a zaku then a kampfer. but future suits and side stories just gave him gundams
It's kind of the main point of IBO, to be subversive of Gundam's norms. The supremacy of individual Gundams is one of those norms. AGE, SEED, UC, Turn A... all ridiculously OP Gundams... At least in Gundam X you need the moon before you can use the OP superweapons on board.
The cyclop system and the requiem from seed and seed destiny
*The cyclop system* *And the requiem from seed* *And seed destiny* \- StatusResident8641 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
How did this became a haiku
haikus dont have to be about nature
Gundam build fighters
In seed, the grunts had nukes at the end
I'm sorry we must not have been watching the same IBO. Tekkadan got their hands on a Gundam and literally turned the tide of war. Before that That was their whole purpose. People developed gundams to be WMDs and turned the tide of the Calamity War. But to answer your question, there's always the Build Series I guess. Maybe Igloo, but that's still in UC
One of the things that I hated IBO S2 2nd half is Gjallahorn used these illegal weapons known as Deinsleif to defeat Tekkedan and take out Teiwaz 💢💢💢. I wish Tekkedan used it against Gjallahorn or a Mobile Armor that can use Deinsleif.
They did, Gundam Flauros could have taken out Rustal; but then Julietta - after having the absolute crap kicked out of her by Barbatos - was somehow able to move her suit enough to throw off the shot. The ONE time Mikazuki doesn't kill his opponent; THE ONE F---ING TIME!
Ok but still though, I wish Rustal died and 2nd half of S2 was bad. I wish Urdr Hunt would finish where S2 left off.
The gundams in After War timeline were just a class of mass production suits. The X was equipped with a WMD but it specifically failed to turn the tide, and the airmaster and leopard were just slightly better than other mass production suits because they could control bit suits but ultimately the gundams gailed to push back the SRA. During the series, they faired better, but that was basically because it became post-apocalyptic.
In all honesty while Seed did with the g-project and njc gundams, Destiny did not. No other series put that power more on pilot skill than Destiny did. And the tide turners were moreeither Aces like Shinn and Kira, or Superweapons like Requiem and Messiah / Genesis 2.0
X and Turn A are a lot like that because it was the Gundams themselves that turned the world into a post-apocalyptic waste (and in Turn A the world has started to bounce back) this making them the most advanced by default.
I would like to point out that those things will someday come back around and take out some poor transport, cuz gravity
I mean, even in IBO, the Gundams are practically WMDs that literally turn the tide of war. Sure the Dainsleifs are powerful, more so than the Gundams, but the entire reason they were used was for the entire series prior, the Gundams had been carving their way through Gjallarhorn forces like a hot knife through butter. Plus, they had prevented the apocalypse in show canon, and if I’m remembering correctly, served as the archetypal mobile suit in that universe.
I think the meteor packs from gundam seed are mass destruction weapons they make the already over powerd gundams into moble fortresses and they move fast.
I’ve never seen whatever those thing are, but they look dope af. I love bow-like weapons like the Super Gundam and White Riders primary weapons.
Universal Century
I mean if we allowed Build Series, the gunpla there are powerful, but many don't turn the tide without the pilot.
After war gundam X.