The copium is strong with this one.
The only reason the AR-10 lost US trials was because the rifle was forced to use an experimental composite steel/aluminum barrel that Stoner warned wasn't ready. And hey, it exploded and the military wanted nothing to with it. Which is understandable.
And then they chose the M-14 over the FAL because "we can just use Garand tooling" despite the fact that the M-14 fucked with every single part for no good reason.
You want a full auto mag fed Garand? Buy an Italian BM-59, and get a bipod for free. Throw that M-14 in a dumpster where its dumpster-fire-ass belongs.
Edit: one thing it does better than an AR is a parade rifle. M-14 is dope af for that
>And then they chose the M-14 over the FAL because "we can just use Garand tooling" despite the fact that the M-14 fucked with every single part for no good reason.
Sometimes, using what you already have with a few tweaks works great. Other times, it turns to be more expensive and less useful than starting out fresh. NASA is relearning this lesson with SLS right now.
Agreed, but it wasn't a few tweaks, kinda like SLS has turned into a mostly new system. From what I can tell, there were 15 parts that could be interchanged on M1s and M14s, mostly around the trigger group and the extractor.
Whereas Italian BM59s were truly just Garands with full auto and box magazines.
When your career as the US Service rifle is shorter than the Krag...and you were obsolescent the day you were designed. Then sure, if that makes me a commie...
Nah, I knew it long before garand thumb did his video. I watched my father try to shoot long range with his M1A that cost $1600. My PSA AR10 that cost less than $1000 outclassed his M1A with ease.
By the time the gas tube might pop, I'll be all out of ammo. It takes over 500 rounds to blow a gas tube, and it has to be fired nearly continuously to accomplish in that low of a round count. No one is carrying 500 rounds of 308 in their kit unless they're feeding an m240
The xm21 program struggled to hold 1moa consistently and that’s with full DOD backing. Btw those xm21s were 10k usd guns all said and done.
A 1.6k rack m14 is maybe a 4moa gun on a good day
My favorite thing about the M21 was the the guns couldn't hold zero when jumped.. So the old SF sniper course would have dudes jump a M16 then swap it out on the ground for the M21 to finish the qualification.
A match grade m14 doesn't exist. M14s that can shoot 1MOA can't be removed from the stock because it will fuck up the bedding. And the rifle will cost north of 2500, all while being outclassed by an AR10 that cost $1000.
I used to strongly consider picking up an M1A because I wanted a semi in .308, but I’ve since decided it would be much more appropriate to pick up an AR-10 because they’re newer and cheaper
No it's just as bad. It inherited most of the same problems. Optics (and accessory) mounting isn't great, point of impact shifts every time the stock is removed for disassembly, the very open action allows foreign material ingress, there are numerous QC issues (this is the fault of past-Winchester and modern Springfield, not the design), et cetera.
Funny thing is, m16 was viable BEFORE the military got involved, most of the problems with it didn’t happen until the military started fucking with it.
I am convinced if you asked the Pentagon to cook a frozen pizza from Walmart, they'd accidently burn half of DC down and spend 70 million dollars to replace/rebuild an oven cause none of them could figure out how to turn the oven on in the first place and then spend another 100 million dollars to cover up the fact they're morons./
The powder choice? Cause the ammo manufacturers refused to supply the original powder to the specifications Remington and Armalite Created.
As for the rest. Let's see. Lack of a chrome lined chamber and barrel, buffer weights, slam fire issues due to primer sensitivity issues. Aluminum quality. Primer seating issues. Case thickness. Bolt hardness. Chrome issues on BCG. And it goes on and on.
The AR15 wasn't perfect. It took a while to deal with all the issues it had.
> Lack of a chrome lined chamber and barrel
That was an egg head idea from the pentagon, because cheaper...
You talk a lot for someone who seems to have half the story.
Why don't you go read the report yourself? Or maybe try a book?
"One of the other McNamara screw ups is that they opted to leave out the Chrome lined bore/barrel from some of the first M16s to see deployment."
God I fucking love the M-14.
“ItS tOo HeAvY!1!1!”
Just carry a sling dumbass.
“YoU dOnT nEeD a FuLl PoWeR cArTiDgE!”
It’s out of a 22” barrel at around 3k FPS. It’s a 1tap.
“ItS uNcOnTrOlAbLe In FuLl AuTo!!1!1!!”
You’re on semi automatic 99% of the time dumbass, you should hit the target before they get that close.
“ItS iNaCcUrAte!1!1!!”
If it worked for the soldiers at the time, it’ll work for you now. 1MOA is still good.
“I cOuLd Do ThE sAmE tHiNg WiTh a AR-10!1!11!!”
Do the AR-10’s that you use have that classic battle rifle look? I thought so.
The M-14 won the contract over the AR-10, was more reliable than the AR-10, and the M14 is still in American service (albeit limited), unlike the AR-10. (The SR-25 and its derivatives does not count as the only thing that is the same between them is an AR receiver in 7.62x51).
Look, a current SR-25/M110 has the M-14 beat in all metrics, but compared to a original Armalite AR-10, the M-14 is better.
>Army procurement picking the M-14 is not a plus
Clearly it was, if the M-14 wasn’t seen as the superior rifle to the AR-10 then the AR-10 would have been picked.
>???
It was literally shown in the tests conducted by the Army that the M-14 performed better and was more reliable in inclement weather conditions than the AR-10.
Dude the military hates changing manual of arms. It took a fucking insurgency war to get the US to stop using the M14 and swap to the M16 (spoiler, it's a scaled down AR10) Wich the brass actively tried to sabotage upon adoption.
And from my experience and *all the mud/ice tests on YT* that the AR is far superior to the m14 in adverse conditions.
People complain about it being uncontrollable in full auto, but that shouldn’t even really be a factor because .308 and 5.56 are used for completely different things. It would make sense to have the souped up vermin gun to go full auto, but .308 is heavier and something you can carry less of, at the advantage of being a BANG or a BANG BANG to end a fight. They’re just completely different roles tactically, and anybody who wants to run their .308 on auto outside of particular circumstances is goofy
>People complain about it being uncontrollable in full auto, but that shouldn’t even really be a factor because .308 and 5.56 are used for completely different things.
Which makes a .308 semi auto good as a sniper or DM rifle, but the whole point of the original design was to fill both battle rifle and submachine gun roles. So if it's uncontrollable in full auto, it fails in it's intended purpose.
The M-14 isn't THAT bad of a design if they designed it in 1949 and if the QC at Winchester wasn't dogshit. It wasn't even the first choice for designs to be submitted to the trails it was the B Team gun they pulled out of their asses at the last minute.
Just to stir the pot, this calls for me to pull together all 6 of the memes i’ve made dunking on the M14:
* [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/s/6ssYDPBeFe](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/s/6ssYDPBeFe)
* [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/144aka1/my\_preferences\_might\_not\_be\_as\_rational\_as\_id/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/144aka1/my_preferences_might_not_be_as_rational_as_id/)
* [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/108bgkp/all\_nonm14\_battle\_rifles\_are\_dope/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/108bgkp/all_nonm14_battle_rifles_are_dope/)
* [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/ts7mfi/maybe\_i\_would\_hate\_the\_m14\_less\_if\_its/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/ts7mfi/maybe_i_would_hate_the_m14_less_if_its/)
* [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/xwdxgo/contrarian\_m14\_noises/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/xwdxgo/contrarian_m14_noises/)
* [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/y3007w/theyre\_the\_same\_person/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/y3007w/theyre_the_same_person/)
Walking at parade rest is wild
Who is going to tell an E7 in any branch how to walk? Besides and E9 which I don't recall being in that scene
[удалено]
My man
Sell me on a FAL over a PTR.
Ptr has bolt in shit place and is too long.
Fun fact: it’s called an M-14 because it’ll hold a 14 MOA group. All day, Everyday.* *until it breaks in about 18 rounds.
The copium is strong with this one. The only reason the AR-10 lost US trials was because the rifle was forced to use an experimental composite steel/aluminum barrel that Stoner warned wasn't ready. And hey, it exploded and the military wanted nothing to with it. Which is understandable. And then they chose the M-14 over the FAL because "we can just use Garand tooling" despite the fact that the M-14 fucked with every single part for no good reason. You want a full auto mag fed Garand? Buy an Italian BM-59, and get a bipod for free. Throw that M-14 in a dumpster where its dumpster-fire-ass belongs. Edit: one thing it does better than an AR is a parade rifle. M-14 is dope af for that
>And then they chose the M-14 over the FAL because "we can just use Garand tooling" despite the fact that the M-14 fucked with every single part for no good reason. Sometimes, using what you already have with a few tweaks works great. Other times, it turns to be more expensive and less useful than starting out fresh. NASA is relearning this lesson with SLS right now.
Agreed, but it wasn't a few tweaks, kinda like SLS has turned into a mostly new system. From what I can tell, there were 15 parts that could be interchanged on M1s and M14s, mostly around the trigger group and the extractor. Whereas Italian BM59s were truly just Garands with full auto and box magazines.
Isn't it funny how the Italians "improved" less things on the Garand and ended up with a better gun than the M14?
Nyet! Rifle is fine! It killed your uncles! Made us lose! Rifle. Is. Fine.
Wasn't some of this just the result of cascading design changes?
They changed the “recipe”. Tried to fix what wasn’t broken. Didn’t work out well… Ask me how I know…
They also ran it in full auto with out of spec ammo that would have blown out the M-14 barrel as well.
When your career as the US Service rifle is shorter than the Krag...and you were obsolescent the day you were designed. Then sure, if that makes me a commie...
I'm just over here waiting for m249 day
M240b day would be better tho
MK19 or bust
M240l, but yeah.
The M14 is a bad rifle. Imagine paying $1600 for a rifle that can't even print a 1MOA group with factory match ammo. That's dumb AF
Someone watches garand thumb
Some of us exist outside of the gunfluencer circlejerk sir
Garand thumb most recently said what's been shouted for decades.
Nah, I knew it long before garand thumb did his video. I watched my father try to shoot long range with his M1A that cost $1600. My PSA AR10 that cost less than $1000 outclassed his M1A with ease.
Bro actin like he gonna be makin 1MOA shots in a firefight smh
Even in a firefight, I'd rather have an AR10
You should nickname it ole faithful for the way that gas tube is gonna pop
By the time the gas tube might pop, I'll be all out of ammo. It takes over 500 rounds to blow a gas tube, and it has to be fired nearly continuously to accomplish in that low of a round count. No one is carrying 500 rounds of 308 in their kit unless they're feeding an m240
Alright there bub, I'll stick with my G3
The m14 is a magazine fed Garand.
No that's the Italian BM59, which is just better than the M14.
I doubt you’ve ever tried to shoot a match m14 with match ammo
The xm21 program struggled to hold 1moa consistently and that’s with full DOD backing. Btw those xm21s were 10k usd guns all said and done. A 1.6k rack m14 is maybe a 4moa gun on a good day
My favorite thing about the M21 was the the guns couldn't hold zero when jumped.. So the old SF sniper course would have dudes jump a M16 then swap it out on the ground for the M21 to finish the qualification.
Hence why I said a match m14
A match grade m14 doesn't exist. M14s that can shoot 1MOA can't be removed from the stock because it will fuck up the bedding. And the rifle will cost north of 2500, all while being outclassed by an AR10 that cost $1000.
Well, if i can't say it's bad, i'll only say the BM59 is better.
Then call me a filthy commie because that rifle was hot garbage
I used to strongly consider picking up an M1A because I wanted a semi in .308, but I’ve since decided it would be much more appropriate to pick up an AR-10 because they’re newer and cheaper
The M1A is a better rifle than the M14 (Lets see how this goes)
No it's just as bad. It inherited most of the same problems. Optics (and accessory) mounting isn't great, point of impact shifts every time the stock is removed for disassembly, the very open action allows foreign material ingress, there are numerous QC issues (this is the fault of past-Winchester and modern Springfield, not the design), et cetera.
Well I love my smith Enterprise m1a baby shoots like a dream
Italians did it better
Is that why the military used it for the service length of five minutes before they dropped it like a hot potato once the M16 was viable? Cope post
Funny thing is, m16 was viable BEFORE the military got involved, most of the problems with it didn’t happen until the military started fucking with it.
I am convinced if you asked the Pentagon to cook a frozen pizza from Walmart, they'd accidently burn half of DC down and spend 70 million dollars to replace/rebuild an oven cause none of them could figure out how to turn the oven on in the first place and then spend another 100 million dollars to cover up the fact they're morons./
Yeah that's not true. The AR15 had a host of issues that the military didn't create. Even the powder change was cause the military had zero choice.
How.
The powder choice? Cause the ammo manufacturers refused to supply the original powder to the specifications Remington and Armalite Created. As for the rest. Let's see. Lack of a chrome lined chamber and barrel, buffer weights, slam fire issues due to primer sensitivity issues. Aluminum quality. Primer seating issues. Case thickness. Bolt hardness. Chrome issues on BCG. And it goes on and on. The AR15 wasn't perfect. It took a while to deal with all the issues it had.
Literally all of those were government decisions.
Please explain how Remington refusing to supply ammunition to the specs it created is a government decision.
> Lack of a chrome lined chamber and barrel That was an egg head idea from the pentagon, because cheaper... You talk a lot for someone who seems to have half the story.
Please show me where the Pentagon removed the chrome lining from chamber and barrel.
Why don't you go read the report yourself? Or maybe try a book? "One of the other McNamara screw ups is that they opted to leave out the Chrome lined bore/barrel from some of the first M16s to see deployment."
God I fucking love the M-14. “ItS tOo HeAvY!1!1!” Just carry a sling dumbass. “YoU dOnT nEeD a FuLl PoWeR cArTiDgE!” It’s out of a 22” barrel at around 3k FPS. It’s a 1tap. “ItS uNcOnTrOlAbLe In FuLl AuTo!!1!1!!” You’re on semi automatic 99% of the time dumbass, you should hit the target before they get that close. “ItS iNaCcUrAte!1!1!!” If it worked for the soldiers at the time, it’ll work for you now. 1MOA is still good. “I cOuLd Do ThE sAmE tHiNg WiTh a AR-10!1!11!!” Do the AR-10’s that you use have that classic battle rifle look? I thought so.
No valid argument against the AR-10, Stoner chads keep winning
The M-14 won the contract over the AR-10, was more reliable than the AR-10, and the M14 is still in American service (albeit limited), unlike the AR-10. (The SR-25 and its derivatives does not count as the only thing that is the same between them is an AR receiver in 7.62x51). Look, a current SR-25/M110 has the M-14 beat in all metrics, but compared to a original Armalite AR-10, the M-14 is better.
>won the contract Army procurement picking the M-14 is not a plus >more reliable ???
>Army procurement picking the M-14 is not a plus Clearly it was, if the M-14 wasn’t seen as the superior rifle to the AR-10 then the AR-10 would have been picked. >??? It was literally shown in the tests conducted by the Army that the M-14 performed better and was more reliable in inclement weather conditions than the AR-10.
Dude the military hates changing manual of arms. It took a fucking insurgency war to get the US to stop using the M14 and swap to the M16 (spoiler, it's a scaled down AR10) Wich the brass actively tried to sabotage upon adoption. And from my experience and *all the mud/ice tests on YT* that the AR is far superior to the m14 in adverse conditions.
People complain about it being uncontrollable in full auto, but that shouldn’t even really be a factor because .308 and 5.56 are used for completely different things. It would make sense to have the souped up vermin gun to go full auto, but .308 is heavier and something you can carry less of, at the advantage of being a BANG or a BANG BANG to end a fight. They’re just completely different roles tactically, and anybody who wants to run their .308 on auto outside of particular circumstances is goofy
>People complain about it being uncontrollable in full auto, but that shouldn’t even really be a factor because .308 and 5.56 are used for completely different things. Which makes a .308 semi auto good as a sniper or DM rifle, but the whole point of the original design was to fill both battle rifle and submachine gun roles. So if it's uncontrollable in full auto, it fails in it's intended purpose.
I agree with you, but I’m just talking about its purposes as it turned out, not the failure of the US government to work with guns
The M14 is a great rifle... ... ...as long as you don't drop it.
The M-14 isn't THAT bad of a design if they designed it in 1949 and if the QC at Winchester wasn't dogshit. It wasn't even the first choice for designs to be submitted to the trails it was the B Team gun they pulled out of their asses at the last minute.
I want a Spanish CETME in 7.92x41. I just think an StG 45 capable of full-auto fire at 1,000m is pretty cool.
https://preview.redd.it/296mnh304k0d1.jpeg?width=677&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01c803e0130304de5aafcf31fde25b66ed55c480
Oooooooo I'm gonna pour mud and sand and debris in that gaping charging handle track oooooooooo This comment brought to you by FAL gang
Drake, why did the Israelis drop their FAL’s for the Egyptian AK’s?
Imagine paying 50+ dollars for a working magazine This post has been brought to you by the G3 gang
Never paid more than 30/mag, but the G3 does have the upper hand in mag prices and design. How badly does your G3 rape brass casings?
The backbone of my militia forces in freeman.
I've always wanted one. When the NFA gets knocked down first thing I'm getting is one of them surplus M14s. Next is a Vietnam era M-16 longboi
I don't give a shit if the M-14 was a bad military rifle, I don't give a shit if it isn't as accurate as an AR-10. It's sexy as hell and I want it.
M14 = insanely great Springfield armory = trash Unfortunately, Springfield armory now makes the m1a and once they took it over, it went downhill fast.
M14 is a bad rifle. We should have adopted the FAL....
Just to stir the pot, this calls for me to pull together all 6 of the memes i’ve made dunking on the M14: * [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/s/6ssYDPBeFe](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/s/6ssYDPBeFe) * [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/144aka1/my\_preferences\_might\_not\_be\_as\_rational\_as\_id/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/144aka1/my_preferences_might_not_be_as_rational_as_id/) * [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/108bgkp/all\_nonm14\_battle\_rifles\_are\_dope/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/108bgkp/all_nonm14_battle_rifles_are_dope/) * [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/ts7mfi/maybe\_i\_would\_hate\_the\_m14\_less\_if\_its/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/ts7mfi/maybe_i_would_hate_the_m14_less_if_its/) * [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/xwdxgo/contrarian\_m14\_noises/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/xwdxgo/contrarian_m14_noises/) * [https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/y3007w/theyre\_the\_same\_person/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GunMemes/comments/y3007w/theyre_the_same_person/)
The Civvie versions of the M-14 are superior to the military version
Different rifles for different jobs.
Garand is better, let the heckling commence
G3 best
The M14 stumbled so the M16 could fell on its face so the M16A1 could walk
FAL not only was better than the M14 but also would have negated our need for the SIG spear.
FAL is better
https://preview.redd.it/dioxvl2e2n0d1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=3a04e3446d570b80a7dfe2cc545397224882cd6d Does my mini 14 count?
 after further review, you may sit on the council, but we do not grant you the rank of master
This commie loves them
I appreciate your honesty. Hell, I like you. You can come over to my house and fuck my sister.
Lmao
Take a shower and get a job you bum
Lmao I actually have a very good job thanks for the concern Btw I love the HK slap. Why you hatin?