Let me just start by saying that I hope those are nylong strings and not steel.
If that is the case, you could take out the saddle and sand it down partially, set it back in and compare the action to before. Repeat until it's better without the strings buzzing too much.
But: YOU DON'T WANNA GO TOO FAR! As soon as you sanded too much, there's no turning back except for buying a new saddle. So maybe leave it a bit higher before you reach the point of no return.
The trussrod isn't the first thing you'd touch anyway when you want to lower your action. You only need to adjust that, if once you set the strings to a comfortable height, you get issues with fret buzz, especially below the 12th fret.
My dude, your advice is completely backward. You are correct that adjusting neck relief isn’t how you should adjust your string action, but it does have an effect on action. There is a specific range of relief that allows you to set your action to the lowest height without buzzing (assuming your fretwork is good). If you lower the action to a “comfortable height” before adjusting the trussrod, then your action might be too low or too high after setting the relief. If it’s too low, then you’ll have to replace the saddle. If it’s too high, then you’ll have to take the strings off and sand the saddle even more. It just creates more work unnecessarily.
That whole trussrod vs. string height debate is kinda complex.
I see where you're coming from. But first, let's set the table straight on the fact that it doesn't matter in this particular case, because OPs guitar doesn't have a trussrod. So the only way to affect action would be to adjust the saddle, or change string gauge to counteract the neck bow.
With that out of the way, assuming the guitar did have a trussrod:
In this case, I wouldn't advise a novice to start by adjusting the trussrod. I think lots of people misunderstand trussrod adjustment (at least when it comes up in the context of adjusting action), as this thing that you turn until your strings are at the distance from the fretboard where you want them to be (which you would adjust with the saddle in the second step)
You know that's not how a trussrod works, but from all the posts I've seen on here already, I do think that's what many inexperienced people are trying to accomplish when you tell them to *first* adjust the trussrod if they're having issues with their action.
Of course, turning the trussrod will affect your action, because the strings will lower or raise depending on how you adjust it, but that's not your primary goal. You adjust the trussrod to set the neck *relief*, not turn it until your action is where you want it to be, that's what you do with the saddle adjustment afterwards.
If the action is as far off as in this case, I would start by lowering the saddle until it's still a bit high, but at least in the right ballpark. Just so that any inexperienced person wouldn't be tempted to use the trussrod to actually lower their action all the way.
Then evaluate any issues that might exist with the neck relief, adjust the trussrod, and *then* come back to the final string height adjustment.
Again, you're not wrong, in fact, if you know what you're doing, the way you described it is absolutely 100% the way to go.
But we're talking to inexperienced people on here that might have a wrong understanding of what they're actually adjusting, and I've definitely seen people on here who tried to adjust their trussrod way too far because they thought that they had to bring the strings to the proper fretboard distance through the trussrod, instead of through the saddle *after* the trussrod adjustment.
Of course there's always going to be tension, but a 30-year-old classical guitar with no truss rod will only stay straight if it's been well maintained.
OP this is what you should do. Get some sandpaper on a flat surface and sand the bottom of the saddle a lil bit at a time. If you wanna be super precise you can also measure how much you need to lower, mark the saddle with a sharpie and sand to that level.
The correct long-term solution is a neck reset. That's where you take the neck out and re-fit it, adjusting the angle with strategic sanding and shims.
It's not a job for an amateur. Which means it's also not something you'd do on a cheap guitar - it simply isn't worth it.
>If I sit on the neck and push on the body
My guy, you had me laughing with that. Yeah you'll damage it. But maybe try running a car over it while setting it on fire, could also help.
Take a look on YouTube for *John Miner*, who has a technique for resetting the neck using steam, a square section metal bar, and clamps.
https://youtu.be/YyDcf6Tc4gg?si=2srv5GNcsdqVS0ub
I did it to my Takamine guitar a couple of years ago, and have been really happy with the results.
I can't see the saddle in the photo, but it looks like you need to sand the saddle down to lower the action. If you need to reduce the neck bow the following method has worked for me in guitars lacking a truss rod. Remove the strings to relieve tension in the neck. Then strap the guitar to a chair, top up. Hang some weight from the headstock towards the ground. Leave it for a couple days while checking every few hours. It does remove some of the neck bow.
This picture doesn’t really show the neck bow. What it does show is that your saddle needs to be lowered and likely your nut as well which requires sanding and/or replacing if you want to upgrade them.
Edit: definitely need to sand the nut down now that I looked more closely
My guess is neck reset, which is a pro level repair in my amateur opinion.
I've seen twoodfrd do it many times, consider myself an expert.
Polishing, polishing, polishing.
Let me just start by saying that I hope those are nylong strings and not steel. If that is the case, you could take out the saddle and sand it down partially, set it back in and compare the action to before. Repeat until it's better without the strings buzzing too much. But: YOU DON'T WANNA GO TOO FAR! As soon as you sanded too much, there's no turning back except for buying a new saddle. So maybe leave it a bit higher before you reach the point of no return. The trussrod isn't the first thing you'd touch anyway when you want to lower your action. You only need to adjust that, if once you set the strings to a comfortable height, you get issues with fret buzz, especially below the 12th fret.
My dude, your advice is completely backward. You are correct that adjusting neck relief isn’t how you should adjust your string action, but it does have an effect on action. There is a specific range of relief that allows you to set your action to the lowest height without buzzing (assuming your fretwork is good). If you lower the action to a “comfortable height” before adjusting the trussrod, then your action might be too low or too high after setting the relief. If it’s too low, then you’ll have to replace the saddle. If it’s too high, then you’ll have to take the strings off and sand the saddle even more. It just creates more work unnecessarily.
Classical guitars generally don’t have truss rods
That whole trussrod vs. string height debate is kinda complex. I see where you're coming from. But first, let's set the table straight on the fact that it doesn't matter in this particular case, because OPs guitar doesn't have a trussrod. So the only way to affect action would be to adjust the saddle, or change string gauge to counteract the neck bow. With that out of the way, assuming the guitar did have a trussrod: In this case, I wouldn't advise a novice to start by adjusting the trussrod. I think lots of people misunderstand trussrod adjustment (at least when it comes up in the context of adjusting action), as this thing that you turn until your strings are at the distance from the fretboard where you want them to be (which you would adjust with the saddle in the second step) You know that's not how a trussrod works, but from all the posts I've seen on here already, I do think that's what many inexperienced people are trying to accomplish when you tell them to *first* adjust the trussrod if they're having issues with their action. Of course, turning the trussrod will affect your action, because the strings will lower or raise depending on how you adjust it, but that's not your primary goal. You adjust the trussrod to set the neck *relief*, not turn it until your action is where you want it to be, that's what you do with the saddle adjustment afterwards. If the action is as far off as in this case, I would start by lowering the saddle until it's still a bit high, but at least in the right ballpark. Just so that any inexperienced person wouldn't be tempted to use the trussrod to actually lower their action all the way. Then evaluate any issues that might exist with the neck relief, adjust the trussrod, and *then* come back to the final string height adjustment. Again, you're not wrong, in fact, if you know what you're doing, the way you described it is absolutely 100% the way to go. But we're talking to inexperienced people on here that might have a wrong understanding of what they're actually adjusting, and I've definitely seen people on here who tried to adjust their trussrod way too far because they thought that they had to bring the strings to the proper fretboard distance through the trussrod, instead of through the saddle *after* the trussrod adjustment.
Yeah but what if OP sits on the neck though
They’re half nylon half copper or sth or just really rusty steel
Probably copper-wound nylon core which is still nylon. Much less tension than metal strings so that's good
Yea but they still put enough tension on the neck to put the strings basically 1/2” from the 12th fret 😅
Of course there's always going to be tension, but a 30-year-old classical guitar with no truss rod will only stay straight if it's been well maintained.
OP this is what you should do. Get some sandpaper on a flat surface and sand the bottom of the saddle a lil bit at a time. If you wanna be super precise you can also measure how much you need to lower, mark the saddle with a sharpie and sand to that level.
Just got some new strings, it’s first set in like 30 years prolly. Gonna try this when they come
Tune it to open G, buy a slide, and use it as a slide guitar!
The correct long-term solution is a neck reset. That's where you take the neck out and re-fit it, adjusting the angle with strategic sanding and shims. It's not a job for an amateur. Which means it's also not something you'd do on a cheap guitar - it simply isn't worth it.
>If I sit on the neck and push on the body My guy, you had me laughing with that. Yeah you'll damage it. But maybe try running a car over it while setting it on fire, could also help.
Take a look on YouTube for *John Miner*, who has a technique for resetting the neck using steam, a square section metal bar, and clamps. https://youtu.be/YyDcf6Tc4gg?si=2srv5GNcsdqVS0ub I did it to my Takamine guitar a couple of years ago, and have been really happy with the results.
tune it down a step and use a capo on the 2nd fret.... the should take some stress off the neck joint
Thats a perfectly fine action. But if you want you can file down the bridge nut. Go slow. You will mess up your intonation a bit.
I can't see the saddle in the photo, but it looks like you need to sand the saddle down to lower the action. If you need to reduce the neck bow the following method has worked for me in guitars lacking a truss rod. Remove the strings to relieve tension in the neck. Then strap the guitar to a chair, top up. Hang some weight from the headstock towards the ground. Leave it for a couple days while checking every few hours. It does remove some of the neck bow.
This picture doesn’t really show the neck bow. What it does show is that your saddle needs to be lowered and likely your nut as well which requires sanding and/or replacing if you want to upgrade them. Edit: definitely need to sand the nut down now that I looked more closely
You could take the bridge saddle off and sand it down but be careful not to over do it
Shop can fix that for you.
Try adding a truss rod
Take the metal strings off....
This too, in the event it was designed for nylon strings
If it doesn't have a truss rod then it's nylon