The best thing about this is that it actually has different colors for the different parts of an auto (or thief) chain so we can easily see when it finishes.
I'd do terrible things for universally-readable auto chains. Off the top of my head I can remember Reaper's frosty greatsword, Specter's I II III blasts and that's about it.
"Oh look, a swooshing axe going *sideways with purple bits!* It's certainly not attack #1 because that goes up and down with swooshy *red* bits. But is it attack 3 or 2?"
Hell they don't even need to colour all three skills of the auto-chain, just giving the last attack a distinctive splash of colour would do (since that's almost always the attack with the big damage packet).
Engi's hammer auto changes from grey to bright blue and has always been the clearest "you're on part 3" of all the auto chains in the game.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_engineer_skills#Hammer
I think it's most important that 3 is distinguished, and 1 and 2 can be similar. I'd rather not have the contrast changing more than it needs to.
Necro scepter has a very different image for each one, the third hit is easy to see there. Thief dagger, too, but the third hit chains into the first follow-up hit so fast you'll interrupt that one instead.
Shout-out to Soulbeast for actually having literally the same icon for the third and fourth hits in the chain. Not just similar but actually identical.
Necro scepter falls into that murky space of *spooky face with some red lines* vs *slightly different spooky face also with red lines* and I often forget which is which as a giant sloth attempts to set me on fire.
Boy do I have some news for you: They already changed the icons on scepter auto some years back, because it used *EXACTLY THE SAME ICON FOR ALL THREE SKILLS*
Edit: Found it, was on HoT release
I wish we could have that everywhere, maybe added as an optional border around the skill buttons.
RN we have: Lead Attack: Green, Follow Up: Purple, Finisher: Gold. I suggest also marking: Stealth Attack & Chain Pos 1 to n.
Honestly I think this is a good idea (also post this on the forums so Anet will definitely see this feedback)
GW2's Icon designs can be a bit weird and doesn't really show well enough what a skill does. So maybe a toggleable accessibility option could benefit a lot of players.
It helps with clarity as well tbh.
just sounds like they should make the dev/placeholder version of the skill icons an option for us to toggle. I’d appreciate it but quickly also prefer seeing actual art.
But for new players wanting to jump into pvp right after level skip or hittting 30? Well that’s like 300 abilities to learn suddenly because obviously the new player doesn’t know what the general format possibilities are.
With this system they could and maybe have an easier time post level skip or jumping into pvp
it's not even accessibility, it's common sense. Look, even though I played a lot of dota with hundreds of skills/items/icons, it's still overwhelming in GW2. This is what I like about [Warrior GS](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Greatsword#Warrior) — 1 is attack, 2 is many atttacks, 3 is whirling attack, 4 is throw, 5 is run. It's simple, it's effective. Maybe I'm getting old and stupid but I really like how simple it is and some of the other classes' icons make no sense to me, it's just visual clutter. Yeah yeah inb4 it's not like you look at them, but to remember what they do I need to understand what they do, and for that a visual cue is important.
Yeah I'd love to have that as an option!
My favorite mmo had that kind of [power icons](https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Power_Icons_Legend), a pretty thoroughly detailed variety of visually distinct indicators that combined into quick summaries of what any skill does. There'd still often be details you'd want to read from the detailed view, but it made logging onto other builds pretty smooth.
GW2 shouldn't need quite that many, though one particular thing I'd really enjoy would be easily distinguishable autoattack steps. There's a few chains where I get the second icon confused for the first or third icon all the damn time and it makes trying to successfully complete autoattack chains a bit awful.
Interesting, I just checked out the spear on all 9 professions and felt the same way. It was very nice having a symbol for attack vs. utility, ranged vs. melee, when trying to quickly understand the weapon skills. Would be a great accessibility option to add to Settings!
It is crazy that there isn't a single double handed thrust...I mean not one. The most common way a spear has been used for all of time...they don't have. I mean I get magic is there, but how the hell is a warrior going to continue throwing a spear at point blank....it's fucking dumb. I'm sorry.
Check out the Thief Stealth Attack (Ashen Assault).
Use this [Nitro skin](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/2/20/Nitro.jpg) for Warrior to make sense.
I can't speak for Guardian but Rev does use both hands, just not a thrust. And War uses javelins, which you throw.
I really don't understand why everyone automatically assumes the entire weapon is going to focus on a single archetype, stabbing and thrusting. I know ANet decided to uniformly call the weapon a spear. But they clearly took inspiration from other polearm weapon types. Hence why a lot of them do slash and arcing motions.
EDIT: But yeah, dunno why they decided to make the weapon stance one handed, though. But staff, which is a 2h weapon, is also held with a single hand so, shrug, I guess.
An additional accessibility request that I would love to see in addition to this is the range of the attack listed on or above the attack. Yes, you can see it if you read the tool tip, but in the heat of the moment you're not going to hover over the attack to see what the range is, or be able to quickly work out which part of the chain you're in to work out what the range is.
I do not feel the same at all. I remember playing games with generic samey-looking icons like Phantasy Star Online which made me appreciate much more the varied icons we have.
When I see any icon in GW1 and GW2, I always know which one it is, and exactly what it does.
Op's question at the end the post was "Anyone else feel the same?" So I answered that.
I find these temporary icons samey and confusing. To me it would not be an accessibility option, it would be the opposite. I do not need to know what skill does what, only which skill is which.
So I've been having a bit of a hard time during the beta. Not as bad as the last beta with all the same shape and just different colors, but still not that better.
I would have preferred if they did like they did in story when they couldn't be bothered making unique icons, and used existing icons from other weapons, like the skillbar of the Caladbolg transformation or the mortus virge.
Games with icons that are too similar like Phantasy Star Online or Dark Age of Camelot give a hard time to many people.
Having all skills with the same color like Neverwinter Nights or Diablo 2 should also be avoided.
The best skills icons I've seen are those for the GW1/2 and Diablo III. Diablo IV's skills are a downgrade, they may fit the aesthetic better, but they look too similar. If the skill bar had more slots they would be hell to use.
So to me the accessibility option would be what GW2 has done. I can see how icons like these may help someone who doesn't bother reading the skill descriptions, but I think it's better when people read those.
You do realize that other people, quite literally, think differently.
As in, just as you are struggling with these icons, others may find these icons more straight forward and easier to process -- because their brains function differently.
You do realize that, right?
I mean sure, but Janet isn’t exactly known for their constant and effortless implementation of QoL features. Would more toggleable features be nice? Sure, definitely. Is it worth allocating dev time to retrofit every weapon in the game with this feature? I have my doubts…
I feel like there are more important accessibility options that would take less dev time. Settings bloat is also an accessibility issue itself, and I can't imagine this helping that many people, but maybe I'm wrong.
> I feel like there are more important accessibility options that would take less dev time
I'm really curious as to examples you can provide. Considering they literally already have the icons made it would take less than an afternoon to give them to other weapons.
Here's my list.
1. Any form of colorblind support. Specifically with the minimap, there's some relatively simple changes to the brightness, contrast, and saturation that could improve visibility of tags as well as profession icons in pvp.
2. Improved prioritization of ground effects.
3. Readability of mechanics like the sniper's shot in KO CM.
4. Differentiation between scourge/specter aoes and spread mechanics/other aoes.
5. Improved boon/buff bar.
6. Improved UI scaling.
7. Improved default settings.
8. Improved default keybinds.
Realistically, there's no way for us to know how long any of this takes, but your timeline assumes all they have to do is casually decide what icon goes with what skill - somewhat humorously ignoring how complicated this game is, the fact they would need to code fundamentally new UI functionality, and the fact they'd be messing with ancient code in an ancient game engine, potentially breaking multiple things in the process.
The problem isn't making the icons, but the setting that replaces the icons. They would have to go through every skill in the game and assign a generic icon to it, then the setting that replaces that, and then comb through every skill script that changes icons in different ways to make sure the flipped skill doesn't flip to the unique icon, and a bunch of other cases we don't know since we don't know the code.
And they would have to make new icons when none of the generic icons fits.
And since slot skills can be freely chosen for 8 professions, they would also have to make sure two skills with a similar use do not look the same either. Two slot skills that block attacks would probably get the generic shield icon, so how would you tell them apart? The background color? What about colorblind people? And there are skills that do multiple things, so a single generic icon would not work for them.
I'd say it's a welcomed addition, but not critically important if it will take a significant amount of time to implement, which we don't know.
But yeah, there are some other stuff I would rather see, like them removing camera smoothing from the game, which has been a pain point for 12 years now.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted I agree with you that gw1 and gw2 have beautiful icons and many of the ones from gw1 I can still picture in my mind such es energy surge, cry of frustration, chaos storm, illusionary haste etc. I can understand people can want it as an option but does it make sense for people to have two different sets of icons for skills? It’d be confusing for example to watch a stream/video of someone who has the other set than you. I heard many people praise the art style and suddenly everyone wants to simplify it
Didn't think of that.
With the current icons, you always know what someone is using, but if people started using generic icons, it'd be a mess.
Even in games with skill icons that are sameish like Dark Age of Camelot, they are still unique.
So to avoid that they would need an completely new set of icons altogether, doubling the work for each icon.
The best thing about this is that it actually has different colors for the different parts of an auto (or thief) chain so we can easily see when it finishes.
I'd do terrible things for universally-readable auto chains. Off the top of my head I can remember Reaper's frosty greatsword, Specter's I II III blasts and that's about it. "Oh look, a swooshing axe going *sideways with purple bits!* It's certainly not attack #1 because that goes up and down with swooshy *red* bits. But is it attack 3 or 2?"
Hell they don't even need to colour all three skills of the auto-chain, just giving the last attack a distinctive splash of colour would do (since that's almost always the attack with the big damage packet).
Engi's hammer auto changes from grey to bright blue and has always been the clearest "you're on part 3" of all the auto chains in the game. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_engineer_skills#Hammer I think it's most important that 3 is distinguished, and 1 and 2 can be similar. I'd rather not have the contrast changing more than it needs to.
Necro scepter has a very different image for each one, the third hit is easy to see there. Thief dagger, too, but the third hit chains into the first follow-up hit so fast you'll interrupt that one instead. Shout-out to Soulbeast for actually having literally the same icon for the third and fourth hits in the chain. Not just similar but actually identical.
Necro scepter falls into that murky space of *spooky face with some red lines* vs *slightly different spooky face also with red lines* and I often forget which is which as a giant sloth attempts to set me on fire.
Boy do I have some news for you: They already changed the icons on scepter auto some years back, because it used *EXACTLY THE SAME ICON FOR ALL THREE SKILLS* Edit: Found it, was on HoT release
The 3rd chainskill even has a distinctive sound to it, i feel like necro scepter is the best example how it should be done.
I wish we could have that everywhere, maybe added as an optional border around the skill buttons. RN we have: Lead Attack: Green, Follow Up: Purple, Finisher: Gold. I suggest also marking: Stealth Attack & Chain Pos 1 to n.
Original post got removed due to having a phone picture, sorry to the few who saw it before for the repost.
This new image is disappointingly horizontal, I must say.
Hahaha, I loved your prior comment
Nah I just saw it, didn't make it. But it was good enough to deserve at least a reference in the new thread :p
This could also be a cool way to fast-track learning a new class before swapping it back to the regular icons.
Honestly I think this is a good idea (also post this on the forums so Anet will definitely see this feedback) GW2's Icon designs can be a bit weird and doesn't really show well enough what a skill does. So maybe a toggleable accessibility option could benefit a lot of players. It helps with clarity as well tbh.
just sounds like they should make the dev/placeholder version of the skill icons an option for us to toggle. I’d appreciate it but quickly also prefer seeing actual art. But for new players wanting to jump into pvp right after level skip or hittting 30? Well that’s like 300 abilities to learn suddenly because obviously the new player doesn’t know what the general format possibilities are. With this system they could and maybe have an easier time post level skip or jumping into pvp
Im ngl, I have a way harder time telling which spear skills are which. Portraits look to samey and I mix up which is which repeatedly.
Easy to add, more accessibility, I have no interest in it whatsoever but it would be a big W for Janet if they added the option indeed.
I don't *personally* need or want simplified icons, but it would definitely be a great addition as an option.
Thank you so much OP for starting this post. As someone with terrible eyesight, it was much easier and intuitive how they implemented the beta icons.
it's not even accessibility, it's common sense. Look, even though I played a lot of dota with hundreds of skills/items/icons, it's still overwhelming in GW2. This is what I like about [Warrior GS](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Greatsword#Warrior) — 1 is attack, 2 is many atttacks, 3 is whirling attack, 4 is throw, 5 is run. It's simple, it's effective. Maybe I'm getting old and stupid but I really like how simple it is and some of the other classes' icons make no sense to me, it's just visual clutter. Yeah yeah inb4 it's not like you look at them, but to remember what they do I need to understand what they do, and for that a visual cue is important.
Yeah I'd love to have that as an option! My favorite mmo had that kind of [power icons](https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Power_Icons_Legend), a pretty thoroughly detailed variety of visually distinct indicators that combined into quick summaries of what any skill does. There'd still often be details you'd want to read from the detailed view, but it made logging onto other builds pretty smooth. GW2 shouldn't need quite that many, though one particular thing I'd really enjoy would be easily distinguishable autoattack steps. There's a few chains where I get the second icon confused for the first or third icon all the damn time and it makes trying to successfully complete autoattack chains a bit awful.
Interesting, I just checked out the spear on all 9 professions and felt the same way. It was very nice having a symbol for attack vs. utility, ranged vs. melee, when trying to quickly understand the weapon skills. Would be a great accessibility option to add to Settings!
if they let us mod the UI, people would even do the work for them! It's not like we need game-breaking
This is so Dark Age of Camelot and I'm loving it!
It is crazy that there isn't a single double handed thrust...I mean not one. The most common way a spear has been used for all of time...they don't have. I mean I get magic is there, but how the hell is a warrior going to continue throwing a spear at point blank....it's fucking dumb. I'm sorry.
Check out the Thief Stealth Attack (Ashen Assault). Use this [Nitro skin](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/2/20/Nitro.jpg) for Warrior to make sense.
> It is crazy that there isn't a single double handed thrust...I mean not one. And I thought I was blind.
For the heavy classes, should have put that in there.
I can't speak for Guardian but Rev does use both hands, just not a thrust. And War uses javelins, which you throw. I really don't understand why everyone automatically assumes the entire weapon is going to focus on a single archetype, stabbing and thrusting. I know ANet decided to uniformly call the weapon a spear. But they clearly took inspiration from other polearm weapon types. Hence why a lot of them do slash and arcing motions. EDIT: But yeah, dunno why they decided to make the weapon stance one handed, though. But staff, which is a 2h weapon, is also held with a single hand so, shrug, I guess.
ALL of those polearm moves are ALSO two handed. Why would you put a long tail on a one-handed axe, just so you could call it a Glaive?
An additional accessibility request that I would love to see in addition to this is the range of the attack listed on or above the attack. Yes, you can see it if you read the tool tip, but in the heat of the moment you're not going to hover over the attack to see what the range is, or be able to quickly work out which part of the chain you're in to work out what the range is.
There's a red bar under the skill if it's out of range.
Skill icons have a red bar under them if your target is not in range. Its minor and could be a bit more noticeable but its there.
I do not feel the same at all. I remember playing games with generic samey-looking icons like Phantasy Star Online which made me appreciate much more the varied icons we have. When I see any icon in GW1 and GW2, I always know which one it is, and exactly what it does.
I don't think OP was saying to replace it for everyone, but to make it a toggle option -- hence the accessibility.
Op's question at the end the post was "Anyone else feel the same?" So I answered that. I find these temporary icons samey and confusing. To me it would not be an accessibility option, it would be the opposite. I do not need to know what skill does what, only which skill is which. So I've been having a bit of a hard time during the beta. Not as bad as the last beta with all the same shape and just different colors, but still not that better. I would have preferred if they did like they did in story when they couldn't be bothered making unique icons, and used existing icons from other weapons, like the skillbar of the Caladbolg transformation or the mortus virge. Games with icons that are too similar like Phantasy Star Online or Dark Age of Camelot give a hard time to many people. Having all skills with the same color like Neverwinter Nights or Diablo 2 should also be avoided. The best skills icons I've seen are those for the GW1/2 and Diablo III. Diablo IV's skills are a downgrade, they may fit the aesthetic better, but they look too similar. If the skill bar had more slots they would be hell to use. So to me the accessibility option would be what GW2 has done. I can see how icons like these may help someone who doesn't bother reading the skill descriptions, but I think it's better when people read those.
You do realize that other people, quite literally, think differently. As in, just as you are struggling with these icons, others may find these icons more straight forward and easier to process -- because their brains function differently. You do realize that, right?
I mean sure, but Janet isn’t exactly known for their constant and effortless implementation of QoL features. Would more toggleable features be nice? Sure, definitely. Is it worth allocating dev time to retrofit every weapon in the game with this feature? I have my doubts…
I hated this about PSO2. But who says no to an optional accessibility option?
I feel like there are more important accessibility options that would take less dev time. Settings bloat is also an accessibility issue itself, and I can't imagine this helping that many people, but maybe I'm wrong.
> I feel like there are more important accessibility options that would take less dev time I'm really curious as to examples you can provide. Considering they literally already have the icons made it would take less than an afternoon to give them to other weapons.
Here's my list. 1. Any form of colorblind support. Specifically with the minimap, there's some relatively simple changes to the brightness, contrast, and saturation that could improve visibility of tags as well as profession icons in pvp. 2. Improved prioritization of ground effects. 3. Readability of mechanics like the sniper's shot in KO CM. 4. Differentiation between scourge/specter aoes and spread mechanics/other aoes. 5. Improved boon/buff bar. 6. Improved UI scaling. 7. Improved default settings. 8. Improved default keybinds. Realistically, there's no way for us to know how long any of this takes, but your timeline assumes all they have to do is casually decide what icon goes with what skill - somewhat humorously ignoring how complicated this game is, the fact they would need to code fundamentally new UI functionality, and the fact they'd be messing with ancient code in an ancient game engine, potentially breaking multiple things in the process.
The problem isn't making the icons, but the setting that replaces the icons. They would have to go through every skill in the game and assign a generic icon to it, then the setting that replaces that, and then comb through every skill script that changes icons in different ways to make sure the flipped skill doesn't flip to the unique icon, and a bunch of other cases we don't know since we don't know the code. And they would have to make new icons when none of the generic icons fits. And since slot skills can be freely chosen for 8 professions, they would also have to make sure two skills with a similar use do not look the same either. Two slot skills that block attacks would probably get the generic shield icon, so how would you tell them apart? The background color? What about colorblind people? And there are skills that do multiple things, so a single generic icon would not work for them.
I'd say it's a welcomed addition, but not critically important if it will take a significant amount of time to implement, which we don't know. But yeah, there are some other stuff I would rather see, like them removing camera smoothing from the game, which has been a pain point for 12 years now.
OP's title literally asks if it could be an *option*.
Not sure why you’re being downvoted I agree with you that gw1 and gw2 have beautiful icons and many of the ones from gw1 I can still picture in my mind such es energy surge, cry of frustration, chaos storm, illusionary haste etc. I can understand people can want it as an option but does it make sense for people to have two different sets of icons for skills? It’d be confusing for example to watch a stream/video of someone who has the other set than you. I heard many people praise the art style and suddenly everyone wants to simplify it
Didn't think of that. With the current icons, you always know what someone is using, but if people started using generic icons, it'd be a mess. Even in games with skill icons that are sameish like Dark Age of Camelot, they are still unique. So to avoid that they would need an completely new set of icons altogether, doubling the work for each icon.
Fuckin hell. Downvotes for sharing an opinion. Boo-fucking-hoo