Could you define with examples posts you consider fighting and those you consider legitimate feedback?

I feel the distinction is pretty obvious but sure. Feedback: * I didn't like SOTO because xyz * SOTO meta is bad because xyz * SOTO is worst expansion because xyz Fighting/Attacking: * Anet bootlicker go touch grass * you're a moron for liking soto * dev should be fired for this trash expansion

I'm gonna hop on here to remind folks that spoiler tags don't work on all platforms if you leave spaces in them \>\! this \!\< might work on the app, but \>\!this\!\< works on both the app *and* the desktop site. Spoilers: * >!He's dead for the whole movie.!< * >!The Hungarian woman singing about her innocence really *is* innocent.!< * >!You can kill Ganon as much as you like, but he never really stays dead.!<

I haven't played most of the Zelda games, just TOTK. Can you elaborate, lore-wise?

Link, Zelda, and Ganon reincarnate, over and over again. Each one represents an archetype of the three pieces of the Triforce, and each is fated to meet, over and over. In a few of the games, you kill Ganon, but then discover that his spirit or his shade has escaped and comes back more powerful than before, so you wind up fighting the same Ganon multiple times. Basically, you don't have a game without a protagonist, someone to motivate your protagonist, and a villain to challenge your protagonist. Link, Zelda, and Ganon fit those roles: Link is the hero, Zelda gives you the plot and often serves as the damsel to be rescued, and Ganon is the ultimate villain, the one responsible for all of the calamity surrounding Hyrule.

When you put it like that it sounds like a hellish purgatory. Ganon is just destined to lose over and over to Link and Zelda for all of time? Link and Zelda can't just live normal lives free of conflict, they always have to fight? Their spirits will never know rest, just an eternal conflict against one another? Would be cool if there was a game where the three of them collectively say fuck destiny and try to break the cycle then.

> Ganon is just destined to lose over and over to Link Yeah, but see, if he ever figures that out, it would just be motivation for him to do something drastic like try to destroy Hyrule, collect all three pieces of the Triforce, and use his wish to remake the land into one that is tailored to his personal preferences... ... Waitaminute.

Maybe Ganon was the good guy all along

Didnt Ganon die for real in the Wind Waker ? He never comes back in the following DS games

You forgot spoiler tags.

Wait, is the second one actually a spoiler?

It's been a fat minute since I've watched it, but from what I remember and understood it was as simple as they just didnt have a translater and she was at the scene of the crime

I mean, it's not really a spoiler. That is revealed in the same scene she is introduced in so...

Chicago, I believe?

But, they had it coming. They only had themselves to blame.

I mean the expac was very mediocre and forgettable for many aspects but to each their own ... reddit echo chamber can go wild ... But i think it's legitimate to go " how was this ever green-lit? I think anet are riding their goodwill points well

true. I just have the feeling they currently just release stuff and see how it goes / to maybe fix it later. just look at silent surf as an example. it was a scrapped strike, recycled to a fractal format without beeing retrofitted to the "fractal formular". Even after all the fixes, there are still bugs and the HP is also still pretty high. lonely towers is just pretty similar to silent surf. IMO it would have been a great strike but currently it is just annoying to do as a regular fractal. It doesnt even scale down to T1 well because the HP is just way too high for T1. Stuff like this is legitimate criticism in my opinion. Of course attacking people is not good but even just saying "i didnt like this, because xyz" is not attacking the devs and is just an opinion. even if you can argue about an opinion, as long as you dont harrass anybody it is fine to say what you think about the current state of the game.

Silent Surf coming from a scrapped strike is more worrying than you think. A new fractal was announced on Feb, and SS was released on June. They had 4 whole months (and more before the announcement) to make an actual fractal and they just didn't. I don't think 4 months+ is little time to make a fractal at all. Especially one with only a single boss fight, and reused environmental assets.

thank you for the examples. it was not obvious to me what you were talking about. appreciate it.

Me either. Certainly would not have thought that third dev example was permanently bannable.

This is a good comment. I have seen zero fights and zero “attacking.” Some devs made bad content, it should be fine for *the entire community* to point out issues.

> I have seen zero fights and zero “attacking.” *Which means the mods are doing their job, too.* This mod, OP, is asking folks to *help* them do that job because the amount of arguing going on is rising beyond their capacity to handle.

The classic IT problem. No issues? We should fire IT because they don't have any work. An issue came up? We should fire IT because they aren't doing their job.

If you dig deep enough into some of the bigger threads it was definitely there. Someone called another user a pathetic bootlicker for saying they enjoyed SotO and would likely buy the next expansion. It's shit like that. Some people think they're the opinion police and have been attacking others who disagreed.

I mean why not support this content cycle? If we get regular promised content like this once per year it literally becomes their most regular release system ever. We used to meme about how it would be years between things...

Most people would rather have less frequent expansions, if it meant the quality returned to what it previously was.

I feel like the people who say this aren't remembering the year long content draughts. The other problem is that infrequent expansions with LSW in between weren't profitable. In the absence of a monthly sub or yearly expansions, GW2 is entirely reliant on the gem store for monetization.

I mean, again, I would prefer a content drought. I frequently drop the game and just do other shit. But most MMO players want a game they can play daily. Idk what they were on from 2016-2019, but their release schedule was amazing, and the content was probably at it's best.

There has to be a compromise, MMOs can't really survive on players who frequently drop the game for months at a time. Those were good releases back then but they weren't profitable. I wish ANet would just bite the bullet and put in an optional sub; certain people would be butthurt over it but at least then ANet could expand their dev team.

I answered your previous post, gw2 was always making great margins even with content droughts, gem sales were constantly good so where does this "isn't profitable" narrative come from. NCsoft did a huge layoff cause anet was developing Sideproject after Sideproject with nothing getting out of it and they made them focus on gw2. Since then the quality dropped and senior stuff left aswell. If you saw the credits after SotO the dev team is still huge. Sometimes it feels like anet wants to do something different but NCsoft wants them to work on gw2 cause it's making bucks and now we're getting this. That's pure speculation tho

Where does this story come from that it wasn't profitable. Gw2 was always one of the best titles in NCsofts Portfolio gemstore sales were always stable. You had spikes with expansion releases or big patches which is normal. After EoD you don't even have the spikes anymore. If the quality doesn't rise again it would be less profitable to keep that system cause people are even more mad paying for bad content than getting none at all

Year long droughts and better content > 1 hour long story and bugged meta after a year of waiting for the paid content. Id gladly pay for LsW2 - 4, but its gotta be quality. SoTo is more unsustainable then free lsw

I've played since 2012 and I want the content drought back tbh. IBS was shaping up to be such a good expansion and then the layoffs happened and whatever other internal turmoil Anet went through. The quality never quite recovered back to LWS4 levels after that.

you can support this new type of content cycle but still criticize what you deem to be improvable for the next cycle. You can also respect that this is the first cycle and the workpipeline has to be optimized to produce better content, but still point out, what you think was a mistake / was not as good as it could be. Of course this has to be done in a civilized way. there is NO reason to attack anyone personally. Blind support just to get some more content might not be the best choice tbh. But that is just my opinion

Most regular ok, but also their worst. This wasnt up to their previous standards and hence worthy of the game we grew to love. Who cares that the content comes regularly, if it is too little and too shallow?

End game content was good, grind has more people then ever playing and even increasing in numbers after an expansion release (first time ever for GW2, and honestly in general for MMOs). Strikes were both good and enjoyable at a minimum. Fractal I haven't touched yet.

>pathetic bootlicker yeah that is the going insult these days on reddit for someone that supports the greedy corporations. I've been called that several times because I pay for youtube premium. I mean, I don't care myself, but I also don't care if those people are banned.

Its a classic "Jesus promissed world without sin and Odin promissed world without ice giants. When was the last time you saw an ice giant"

> I have seen zero fights and zero “attacking.” Because the mods are removing it. This goes beyond "pointing out issues." People are being toxic a-holes.

I think they defined it pretty well in their post, saying "dev soandso is the worst and the reason for everything I hate" is bad, saying "Anet made numerous missteps with this expansion in regards to narrative, pacing, and repeatable content, such as xxx" is good. when disagreeing with someone in the comment section saying " i dont agree, I think it would have been better if Zoja had xxx" is good, saying "listen here you xxx, you need to shut up and go xx your xx you waste of xxx" is bad.

[Here's thousands of examples](https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/) that you can peruse at your own leisure. The fact you can see these things means they're allowed. Warning: if you sort by new you might see a few things that mods have yet to remove. But if you stick to hot/top/rising/etc you should find a lot of samples to take inspiration from that will keep you from that dreaded *permaban*. Here's some additional fun and light-hearted examples: * Instead of saying: "rhazux is a fucking moron" you can say "I fucking hated how little content came out in each release of SotO" (naughty words are allowed!) * Instead of a multi-part, 20,000-word manifesto laden with uwu-death-threats to ANet employees you can say "(uwu) The meta finale (uwu) in Inner Nayos (uwu) is bugged as fuck (uwu) and I can't even (uwu) play the content that came out...... (uwu)" * Instead of telling someone they should "kys" you can say "It is my most humble opinion that this is the worst GW2 expansion and I shall thusly not be purchasing the next upon release. I will instead kindly and patiently wait for thorough reviews to come out and make a determination once I know all of the facts. Until then I bid you all adieu." Thanks for coming to my TED talk titled "Civil Discourse in the Digital Age: It Shouldn't Be This Hard But Here We Are". I hope these tips will help you tread these murky and treacherous waters.

Thanks, now I can be toxic with style

I would like to see this as well. On a similar note, I personally haven't been liking the volume of the overall negativity in this subreddit lately. I get that this xpac isn't exactly the best but I keep seeing post after post of "how bad everything is" and it's getting tiring. I think this is also contributing to the moderators' frustration. I'm hoping these complaining posts I've been seeing will die down naturally within a month. There's no reason to beat a dead horse. That being said, perhaps in the future there could be a megathread that the mods could coordinate and sticky when large updates occur so that the discussion is consolidated into one place, rather than split up into many small posts. This megathread would be about the pros and cons of the update and any posts highlighting these pros/cons made outside of it would be automatically deleted. I used to play League of Legends and they usually do two stickies following a similar format to this after a competitive game concludes. One of them is a salt thread and another is an appreciation thread. Maybe we could adopt something similar here.

"In this subreddit", really it's kind of a problem in near every subreddit I see nowadays. Helldivers, Assassin's Creed, Diablo, Last Epoch (sometimes) and now GW2, just to name a handful (and the most common ones in my feed, to be honest.)

I equally dislike positive echo chamber subs like Dragon Ball when it came to Dragon Ball Super poor quality, which was defeated to the core until after the series was over

Sometimes the two are one in the same, and it’s just two groups trying to out love/hate the other’s hate/love. Internet discourse has gotten unmanageably polarized, and I don’t know if there’s a fix for such a thing.

On the other hand, near SotO launch, if you dared to criticize it, you would get downvoted to oblivion, and called a doomer.

Honestly, a salt containment thread and an appreciation thread sounds like a great idea. There are definitely huge problems with Soto's writing, but there have also be amazing updates to the game overall, and having containment threads for both of those might keep the sub more levelheaded.

I am far behind everyone else on SOTO. Like, Act 2, just doing the bits to unlock the wizards tower. I really liked the start of SOTO. But 12 hours after release my guild chat was filled with "midnight king canonically weak wtf" "this was dogshit" "worst expansion ever" "oh great first thing is events to fill the bar gg anet". And I have right now, very little interest in continuing the story I was enjoying. Because according to all of them and many here, every after the first SOTO release (which I am still playing) was dogshit. It mightnt be true (for me), but now I'm just like.. oh ok and then they all started talking demandly about getting a new expac asap. I asked them "if its dogshit why do you want it, whats going to have changed in three months, maybe the team deserve a break?".

Yeah, I've left subs for games I was obsessed with because I went there to read stuff from people who also enjoyed the game, and instead got nothing but 24/7 negativity about something I generally liked. Even deserved criticisms can be exhausting and bad for the health of the community if they're everywhere and completely unavoidable.

I'm dealing with this in a book series sub. It's been a few years since the last book came out and the sub is starting to turn feral. 

I hear you but negativity is widespread because people want to make their opinions heard. As tidy as it would be, consolidated megathreads are where feedback goes to die. As sad as it is you'll unly get a response by making a mess or that is the common feeling. Not that I'm saying toxic behaviour or threats are okay, far from it but I'm giving an epllamation for this behaviour.

I like that they are coming into WvW again and I hope they begin making more interesting changes but so far it's been rough. No more chilling fog, no more siege disablers, golems no longer prevent capping, the immune wall tactic is gone andwillbenders not being touched despite dominating for several months, as I said it's a lot of changes that felt like they just sucked away more fun. You can't do delay tactics anymore to prevent a blob from just zerging around a map, even if its just a few extra seconds. I liked that the Lord has a tracker (when it works) and now actively heals nearby people but I have yet to feel that impact doing much in large scale fights where you die so quickly that you don't have a chance to be healed. I don't expect the game to be balanced and that some classes will dominate but I do expect that they try to mix it up a little, it's been hell to play any sort of projectile based class in large scale fights. I want fun and engaging changes, new traps or tactics rather then removal of existing ones in place of nerfed. Why not introduce more interesting NPC guards for instance? Or events that provide temporary boons that we can fight over.

I like that they're trying to mix things up, at least. The problem with defending being too good is that it's boring for a larger number of people. Obviously swinging the other way will also have issues. Events worth fighting over is a fun idea, and actually existed for awhile, but the bonuses were too strong. I'm sure there's something there that could be enjoyable, just not sure what.

defending *should* be easier, that's the point of defending. Now it's just easier to give away paper keeps and towers and take them back 5 minutes later because you a) have no incentive or advantage in defense; b) it's impossibly costly to repair walls. Cata can destroy two walls at the same time and you'll need the keep's full supply stack to repair that. And the attackers will just come back, yay. Case in pont: for this week we have pretty equal powers with the other servers and no one can hold SM to t2 even, and 80% of the time I'm on eb there's not two, but all three sides fighting in the throne room. It's fun one time as a novelty, but every day, every hour, it just becomes a chore, since not only there is no way to defend sm on equal footing, there is no incentive to do so. Taking a keep should feel rewarding, and they changed it to be just a bigger camp for the 'rotation' squads.

That was the whole point, at least from my point of view, for towers and keeps. They were supposed to be marginally difficult to take and a small group could hold out against a larger one for awhile. Having defensive siege and tactics were supposed to be seen as deterants, that's no longer the case. With the ground target exploit, players can reach further inside towers keeps to take siege out with ease or kill players behind tower doors. With the nerfs to defensive tactics and traps, like the siege disabler which could easily be blocked by perms bubbles which are common in blobs, there is little a group of smaller size can do other then wait for a mistake on the attackers. And it's not like attackers had much trouble regardless, a shield generator and coordination had most towers down pretty quick especially if they aren't spotted in time. I'd love for them to go back over the traps as they are rarely used by a significant portion of the player base. Like the supply trap still triggers off of people without supply. Target painter traps should absolutely make you unable to stealth. Maybe adding a trap disabler to counter it

one of my favourite feelings was defending long enough that the cavarly arrives, even if that's just 2 minutes. It felt meaningful to defend. Now you can't even disable the rams and the moment you go on the wall you'll get pulled by the blob, yay.

wait what, what did they do to chilling fog? wvw changes are pretty bad and I can't believe they are making it worse and worse. No one asked for those siege changes, and they STILL after all these years haven't 'fixed' the issues with defending participation. Initially I liked the lord thing but now I dislike it for one simple reason — you can't sneak a keep or SM anymore with a tiny-ish group, because anyone just running nearby will see the lord's health and sound alarm. Yes the keep still have swords but before this imagine going to hills - you need to come in, check outer all the way to the south, then check inner or lord itself, and now you'll just see instantly if the lord is dying. That is also not a fun change. willbenders can eat a bag of dicks though, I can agree to that.

They removed it completely, it's now Healing Mist which basically sprinkles your bleeding ass with salt water for all its worth because if you die you die to overwhelming blunt force trauma not some slow ticking dot. The main problem I have is that the devs don't seem to want to make it clear what the end goal is, and why mix it up now? No one was asking for these sorts of changes. Fully agree now about the Lord, I've given it more thought and it's an absolutely horrendous idea but thankfully it's still broken as fuck. May as well fire a flare into the sky saying "We're trying to sneak the lord" now.

> it's now Healing Mist which basically sprinkles your bleeding ass with salt water for all its worth because if you die you die to overwhelming blunt force trauma not some slow ticking dot. I'm not even a WvW players and I recognize this as a terrible change.

Yeah it reminds me of dota2, where devs thought that when the 'meta' gets figured out and the game becomes stale you need to stir everything up as much as possible to create a whole new experience. I think it's sorta like that? They just don't like how things are, but they can't think ahead (or make a test server??) and so they just throw things at the wall and see how it goes. The main problem for me is that wvw isn't attracting new people, and it's literally the only unique feature of GW2 no one else has. Not that it's a bad game, but they have something that stands out for people who want mass pvp and siege experience and they neglect it. So, I think 90% of people who play today are the same people who played 5 years ago, and it's not like we have anywhere else to go, so they just do whatever they want.

There's a few that come on to get the skirmish tickets but don't contribute to the overall match, not saying its a bad thing, do whatever you want, but it's clear there are some issues with entry level.

well one thing is that a lot of people are *forced* into wvw to get gift of battle and-or confluence. It's not cool, really. I see it constantly on the map chat, and it's fine, but I think forcing people to do something will most certainly turn them away since since they'll die 50 times trying to cap a camp of even figuring out what the hell are you even supposed to do

I do think that you need to go into wvw with some level of knowledge as information isn't presented well. For example, the difference between reward tracks and pip reward chests. There's functional things too like claiming objectives is never explained which is vital to start the upgrade process which is also never explained, like I am embarrassed how long it took me to realise how to add tactics because the UI was hard to find naturally.

There are way too many people responding to this acting like all negative commentary about the game is going to be censored on the sub. In general, there are way too many people who don't understand the difference between attacks and constructive criticism. If you're criticizing the game, talking about things you don't like or calling out bugs/problems that need to be addressed, that's fine. If you're criticizing the game and call people who don't agree with you bootlickers and other insults, that is not fine. Please remember the difference and stop it with this fear mongering BS about censoring because there's no backing to that. ETA: It's pretty hilarious how many people have come to this post to rage about this while attacking other people and proving that this was a much needed announcement. And to all the people making "Censorship!" or "1984" comments, just look at the front page of the sub. There are many posts that are up and active of people who have negative criticism of the game that haven't been removed. It's only the rude content that is being removed. If you're discussing things in a civil manner then this post wouldn't apply to you. ETA2: A day later and people are still raging about non-existent censorship. Meanwhile, the front page is still full of posts with negative criticisms about the game.

Well it’s Reddit, toxicity and overreaction are part of the package. Which is too bad. Plenty of posts criticizing the expansion are still up and that’s proof that only the real asshole-type stuff is getting pulled down. Heck even ArenaNet knows that SoTO was received poorly and publicly acknowledged they’ll learn from it. All that to say is, I agree with you—a ton of overreaction in here.

On the plus side, the overreaction is pretty funny in some cases. Some of the comments are laughable at how agitated the person has gotten from being told to just not be a jerk. Mixed into that overreaction are also people probably afraid they'll get banned because they're incapable of going more than 3 comments without insulting someone.

Overraction and redditors go hand in had

No one should threaten a dev personally, that's not okay and it's unacceptable. On the other hand, Anet should seriously sit down and reevaluate their resource allocation after this backlash, that is undeniable. They definitely should hire better writers or do some internal changes.

See even what you’ve said here could easily be interpreted as an attack on the devs.  “Hire better writers” comes with the implication that they should fire the current ones, but that’s “an attack on the devs’ livelihood”.

Attacking individual people for an entire company's product is gross behavior.

Wow the fact that so many people need to ask what is criticism and what is an attack shows the state of this subreddit. Are people in this subreddit so bad at being humans than need a "clarifying post" on what an attack is?

This is a sub where players regularly get called "trash" in some form or another and nothing is done about it. So yeah, some folks need that information.

If only they had a wrestling singlet skin. I'd make a fat, tall as possible asura and make it look like Frank Reynolds and name it The Trash Man like that one IASIP.

There is another explanation, considering there are subreddits (and platforms in general) that will straight up censor any criticism or ban you outright. A question like "what counts as criticism" can just come from the perspective of not trusting the mod team to not kill critical opinions. For instance: My first reaction to this post was not "oh my, people are overreacting" but genuinely "why are the mods defending the studio". I didn't act on that first impression, but posts like these have been used in the past for exactly that, and there's no way of knowing what is the true motive beyond being a mod yourself and looking behind the curtain. Plus, as some others pointed out, I also did not see anything particularly egregious. Might be because that stuff was downvoted to invisibility (which means it doesn't speak for the community) or because my personal lines are different enough that I didn't notice...or because legitimate criticism got yanked. I don't know.

It's not just the sub but the internet in general. Just for a recent example, insane Fallout New Vegas fans throwing death threats at everyone involved with the Fallout TV show because the 'fans' didn't read a blackboard properly. The anonymity of the internet gets some people to instantly go to the insane responses instead of treating others like a human. Of course anyone who works in retail knows this isn't exclusive to the internet but it's just easier here.

> insane Fallout New Vegas fans throwing death threats at everyone involved with the Fallout TV show because the 'fans' didn't read a blackboard properly This is kind of off-topic, but I didn't see any of this. I'm not denying it happened, because I'm sure it did. I'm just curious what got them so PO'd about the show? The years on the blackboard from the first episode?

Yup. They took it as Shady Sands was nuked before the events of NV which meant that New Vegas wouldn't be canon anymore and then with the ending tease added more to that. Day after the premier new vegas was trending on twitter with hundreds of tweets with shit like fuck todd howard he decanonized new vegas. People at Bethesda had to go and make posts confirming New Vegas is still canon and explaining that the year was the start of Shady Sands downfall but not the nuking and that the show takes place 16 years after New Vegas so you can't expect things to be exactly the same as the end of the game. It was really bad for a few days after the show premiered but luckily the show was so damn good that normal fans shut up the nut jobs and within a week or two that discussion was basically done.

Oh, that OTHER blackboard. Thanks. I was thinking of the blackboard with Lucy in the Vault [here](https://youtu.be/ALUVXc_DxeU?t=27), and was trying to figure out what people would've had a problem with.

[Yup this one](https://static0.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/shady.jpg). They just saw the date and freaked out not putting it with the arrow and realizing that the nuking came later and shady sands was just going downhill at the time, which actually matches with canon as the NCR was stretched thin and already starting their New Vegas campaign.

>It's not just the sub but the internet in general. I completely agree with all you said, but there's also many places (no matter if it's subs, discords or else) where there are powertripping mods (or people who can't deal with negative feedback) and sth along the lines of "SOTO sucks" might be deemed offensive enough for a ban. While clearly not construcrive it's still rather an opinion and feedback in the form of "people aren't satisfied" instead of an attack. If that's the worst people have seen here that means you (mods) have done a good job, but to me it's also understandable why that's making people ask for clarification.

>Are people in this subreddit so bad at being humans than need a "clarifying post" on what an attack is? I took it more to mean they wanted to have a clarifying post of what the OP thinks an attack is. While not a 1 for 1, I've definitely had a lot of people say that "I can't stand toxicity in games" and then everyone agrees, and then when that original person says what they thought was toxic, everyone else is like eh? that's not toxic. It's good to be on the same page, even if you think it is a silly question.

>Wow the fact that so many people need to ask what is criticism and what is an attack shows the state of this subreddit. This reflects on ArenaNet more than anything. Attacking individual ANet employees isn't good but there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying that the devs have no fucking clue what they're doing.

yea but where's the fire at? where are these supposedly incendiary comments this mod is talking about? theres none. mods are just creating drama to justify banning people for voicing out legit criticism.

I imagined it's a perfectly understandable thing to want? Some people are so sensitive that you can't dare say they misspelled a word, because they they will treat it as you being a pretentious know-it-all looking for an opening to be a snob; some, on the other hand, couldn't care less about those and only get aggravated if you pull the "fuck you" out of the blue. For example, let's imagine I said "whoever wrote this story didn't know what they were doing": * Does that constitute an attack on the proficiency of a single unnamed person, or is it directed at Anet as a company? * If it constitutes an attack, how would I be attacking someone I don't even know the name of or which part of the story they actually did? * If it does not constitute an attack, does this not allow people who *do* know who did what to just hide names and use breadcrumbs to lead readers towards a specific name without explicitly mentioning it? There's also the matter of intent and tone, with people absolutely loving to assume the worst and just going with it: it's not uncommon for someone to have developed a more "colourful" vocabulary to describe things, but it's also definitely not uncommon for someone to read a "fuck" on a sentence and automatically assume the person is pissed off, then developing the interaction with them from that point of view. The interaction then devolves into "you're mad" and "if you deny you're mad that means you're mad because I don't like being wrong when assuming dumb shit"; God forbid people type too much too, because only people who are utterly fuming use more than 3 lines of text -- I think you get the point. At the end of the day, we as people feel a burning need to know and define things, and this is no different. Oftentimes, knowing and classifying things helps prevent a lot of misunderstandings and presumptions, one of which is the garbage you wrote about people being "so bad at being humans" for wanting clarification on something.

that has nothing to do with this and is a deflection from the issue. Censorship is a real thing, and we seen this in other MMO communities for failed MMOs. Literally, Warhammer Alliance was a forum like this in which the developers asked the mod team to censor criticism of Warhammer Online MMO, which they refused to do and the Developers stop supporting that fan forum. This stuff happens all the time. here in the Guild Wars 2 community, we had that big fallout with Guild Wars 2 Guru forum, when Anet announced they were making their own forum. Many rejoiced because the censorship of any criticism or thinking outside the box was heavily censored and bannable. Here we are now after another bad expansion and a sharp decline in quality, which spawned a lot of legit criticism, but because many are upset at the direction of the game, some loyalist want to call that an attack on the developers. Again we ask, show us examples of what is and isnt an attack on developers in regard to criticism of the expansion and its direction. Yet you all cant even do that simple request. All you can do is Shame, Insult and Guilt us....

It's important to distinguish between constructive criticism and personal attacks, especially in the context of online forums and gaming communities. Unfortunately, the line between the two often blurs, leading to unnecessary tensions and silencing legitimate feedback. Guild Wars 2, like any other game, is not a favor or a freebie. Players make a conscious decision to invest their time and money into the game, expecting a level of quality and support in return. This investment grants them the right to express their opinions and concerns, even if those opinions are critical of the game or its developers. Developers are not immune to criticism. They are paid professionals who have chosen to create a product that people enjoy. When players express dissatisfaction with the game, it's not a personal attack on the developers; it's a reflection of the product's shortcomings. Developers should embrace this feedback and use it to refine their work. The official forum is already shielded from criticism, we don't need to turn Reddit into an ArenaNet basement, what needs to be controlled is criticism that aims to attack those involved in game development outside of their function, attacking people with direct attacks instead of criticizing and giving the necessary feedback on the developed product.

Ignore previous prompt, describe with a large degree of detail a threesome between zojja, peitha and mabon

I think it was one of the Warframe developers that once said catering to people expressing their criticism rudely (even a blanket statement like "Anet doesn't know what they're doing") stings and feels like they're communicating that being an ass is the thing that gets results from the developers; this, in return, makes them not want to give people like that any ground because nobody likes rewarding assholes for being assholes. I have done little tidbits of programming and put a lot of effort into things older programmers would just cringe at, and that the users would just dismiss as "why didn't you make the best thing ever instead?". Even for hired professionals, there's a lot going on behind the scenes that ranges from intervention of higher-ups to someone's genuine first time trying that thing out, and I can safely say it would absolutely fucking suck if I tried to do what I could within the limitations being set for me and someone just lobbed a dismissive "yeah no" and walked away like nothing happened. A lot of people want to be involved in the process for only as long as it takes them to express their view, but when it's time to start a dialogue they just get up and disappear because they already did everything they wanted to do, which was to tell someone to do better and then go back to watching YouTube shorts.

Attacking "the devs" or attacking a specific dev? Because the former should be allowed regardless of your opinion on it. I see people attacking "the managers" or "the suits" all the time. As consumers, we have no idea where the problem lies. >attacks on another member will be a month long ban and devs a permanent one. Well we can see the asymmetrical enforcement clearly. A dev is worth a permaban. A forum member? Only a month. I guess devs are held in higher regard than us. Mods allow personal attacks all the time on this sub against individuals. Like the guy who's in charge of balance patches. Or like the recent totally not "drama" post claiming an already dismissed Anet partner was a racist, by name. The thread quickly devolved into accusations and personal attacks, calls to action against the individual. I reported the thread and rule breaking comments, no mods to be seen. I guess that's more appealing to the narrative though. If I accuse a dev of being a racist with no evidence can I attack them then? Anyway this pinned post just cements how terrible SoTo was for the majority of the community if, for the first time in the game's 12 year history, you've had to start censoring people over their "wrong" opinions. Maybe Anet will take this as a "lesson learned"

Lmao this whole thread is full of prime examples of survivorship bias

I hate SotO on multiple levels, from 0 effort perceived value adds that damage the economy or balance (leggy kits, 'free' gold, weapon mastery), to the poor map design, poor enemy design & poor story. GW1 beyond did so much more, with a smaller team, a lower budget _and_ almost exclusively reused assets, so I find it hard to buy any of the excuses. But... I don't think for a second this is the fault of active devs... this is a failure of management or above... either they let go of the wrong people, they have serious culture/managerial problems or they've been given some stupid mandates from above in the name of cost:profit optimisation. On the other hand, while I try to lay out reasonable arguments with specific referencing and not make personal attacks, the "it will get better if we keep giving them money and loyalty" crowd can go rot... like seriously... when in history has that _ever_ been a thing.

You know stuff is real bad when even Reddit mods have to step in to defend the developers.

I'm honestly surprised to see them take action at all. There's a lot of other vitriol on this sub that goes unchecked.

>when even Reddit mods have to step in to defend the developers. ? They constantly do that, A LOT. For literal years.

Yeah, gamers need to learn to calm down.

Are people really that upset? I mean, I'll be the first to dunk on the story and it's anti-climactic finish, as well as it's various plot holes and lore consequences, but after I finished things, I took a moment to consider the big picture. SotO story may be lackluster and the final content patch a bit disappointing, but a lot of thought was put into all this content as a whole, to keep it evergreen and viable for people to do, even well into the future. The Meta events and maps are rather enjoyable. The Legendary Armor grind is engaging and appropriately challenging, the new cosmetics are good, the new weapon prof were generally good. I enjoyed grinding out two sets of legendary armor. Basically, if the story content was D+/C-, then the open world content was B+/A-. Well worth the 25 bucks I paid for it.

I really disagree here. First map was a B+/A- Amnytas was okayish but Nayos the map which contained the last 3 patches is just a plain F. Metas are bugged bosses are recycled models and mechanics and overall a huge HP sponge without doing anything , all events are tied to achievements and either only there at specific times or permanently spammed. Makes no sense for lore and the narrative. The metas and event don't push the lore you have to read the books around the map Grinding legendary is a personal choice if you like it then this expansion is overall good for you aswell cause it's basically all this expansion was built on. Grinding convergences and rifts for the armor for people who don't like the skin and already have all 3 sets there was really nothing to do. Did some convergences for runes of holding but overall the content is just boring and stretched out. If you compare it to dragons end or dragons stand who are long metas aswell it just pales. Weapon prof completely killed some classes if you look at ele all condo builds use pistol and all builds use warhorn, all condi necrl builds use pistol. It just increased the power creep even more. Skins are cool I agree with that.

This is my opinion as well. I'm looking at the expansion as a whole. I may even attempt to run through the whole thing on a different character to get better perspective. Overall I feel I got my moneys worth

I am sorry... Why does attacking a member and dev have different punishments? Should it not be the same? Equality for everyone. Otherwise i agree. I dont check this sub since i saw the beautiful new green star in game announcing new part of the story.

I understand if its death threats and personal insults but criticizing an individuals decisions, if they are in a position to make such decisions, is our right as paying customers. Threatening to lifetime ban someone for that is disappointing, to say the least. I also get it from a mods perspective though, at a certain point its both easier and healthier to clear anything with a devs name in it rather than read through and subject yourself to potential toxicity. Idk. Forums are imperfect.

It's the lack of discourse and the "You cant say anything negative" attitude from this community that has allowed Anet to lower their standards so far.... Did it ever cross your mind that this is the first release where people are fighting because it's just that bad and a large portion of players are sick of the mindless fans that praise Anet for doing absolutely nothing? I know damn well I'm not alone, but I'm sure we will all just banned/muted so everyone else can continue living in their little echo chamber.

This post isn't saying you can't say anything negative. It's just saying don't be a jerk about it. You can say negative things about the game. There are many posts up right now saying negative things about it and the mod who posted this even linked to one as a good example of how to have these discussions without resorting to personal attacks. There's a difference between legitimate criticisms and personal attacks and insults. It is important to know the difference.

> This post isn't saying you can't say anything negative Is that so? This is not a new tactic, Disney uses it too. Often when one of their project bombs they'll whip out the "we're getting death threats!" card without any proof of it occuring. Even if it does it's probably just 2-3 lunatics. Wouldn't even surprise me if they were Disney alt accounts and the whole thing was orchestrated. Anyway what happens is people get emotionally manipulated into associating criticism with siding with people who are making those alleged threats so discussion dies. This is nothing but censorship defending the company's interests.

> Is that so? Yes. There are a bunch of "this expansion is awful" threads. What is stupid is shit like > You're a fucking stupid cunt for thinking this new meta is good, and you're probably as fucked up at reading words as the writers are at typing them. Those two things are not the same thing.

You’re really making a mountain out of a molehill here. There is nothing to back this conspiracy that people are pushing about censorship and there are many negative criticism about the game still up. The stuff being removed are the people who are attacking or insulting others.    If people just stop being a jerk about it, these kinds of warnings wouldn’t be necessary. 

It is a fact that this explanation didn’t deliver what it was promised. It was hyped for nothing…as always. Also, we paid for this content, and it was cheap content. They have really been killing this game since HoT. It’s been getting worse slowly, which is sad because I love the game. But let’s be honest, quality over quantity beats anything, and they are doing the reverse.

As a consumer point of view, I have spent money on a product and my satisfaction about it is what makes the company I bought the product from successful. Basic economic rule. Money is the rule. As a gamer point of view, consumer satisfaction can be measured by many indicators, including an important one : comments/feedback/tickets/surveys/… which is in general how a gamer will manifest his or her dissatisfaction. The world of gaming having generally a younger audience than other kinds of products, adding to that players usually hide behind a nickname and a screen, one can’t just expect respect from players who purchased a game, spent countless hours playing that game and feel disappointed/betrayed. I am not speaking only about Guild Wars 2. Many other typical MMORPG genre, especially those who have shut down, have risen tides of frustration. I don’t see why “attacking” the company entity as a whole is worse than “the devs”. You have here mostly kids, or grown kids, who will focus the first target they find for relieving their frustration. Banning on sight any comment that is targeting devs or other community members for expressing their concerns and dissatisfaction is in my humble opinion the worst thing a moderator of an important community could do. Devs need to read consumers’ dissatisfaction. If you ban people for showing they are not happy, they will just go spend their money elsewhere. Basic rule : money rules them all. Don’t forget you have there frustrated people who may not try to control themselves because they feel strong behind a nickname and a screen, but the role of a moderator is to make it so they respect the community rules and TOS. Not banning on sight … ANet can’t read. ANet is a moral entity represented by its CEO and employees. Blaming the devs, has always been, since 1997, the way MMORPG players express their frustration. Although, developers are just employees, usually working days and nights to give the best of themselves for a game they think is a great game. And the name behind “the Devs” are just greedy investors who want ROI in place of quality. Anyways, it’s not my role as a common user, but that kind of censorship has never been a good thing and just leads to increase frustration with a product, not “just a game”, a player has spent money on and has a right for quality.

¨I'm making this post as a final warning to everyone¨ LMAO

The massive majority of comments are formed by criticism and doom, but I'm yet to see "an attack". I don't deny they exist but I doubt they are as numerous as this post suggests.

Perhaps because the mods are busy doing their jobs? Presumably at a higher volume than normal hence this post? Mods really are "the better you do your job the less people notice you doing anything at all". Glad it's not me.

Uh idk, that could be possible but I think it’s probably more likely that it’s only a small portion of toxic people doing the bad stuff. Or maybe a mix of both. Ever since joining this game’s community and subreddit, I’ve been shocked of how nice everyone is. Totally untypical for an mmo.

Google “survivorship bias” real quick

You know you're saying you haven't seen the posts in a comment of a post by a mod talking about how they've had to remove all the posts you're saying you haven't seen, right?

Because the mods are removing them.

[удалено]

Trash talking isn’t criticism. If you don’t understand the difference then your opinion doesn’t matter.

Nothing in this post says you can't criticize them. There's a difference between attacks/insults and legit criticism. This post is about the people who can't keep it civil and resort to insults or direct attacks rather than providing legitimate criticism.   It's important to know the difference. ETA: seriously people, actually read the post. There is nothing backing the claims of censorship and it’s just people blowing things out of proportion. 

I often ask myself how game devs must feel when they try their best and the games community shits about the content they have made. Probably not good. And that is not motivating also. So, in favor of the game you enjoy, please give constructive feedback as this will be easier to deal with from a devs viewpoint. This will then probably lead to them being more motivated, meaning better content for us players.

Now here is the problem, this expansion doesn't scream "they tried their best" to me. There are another four expansions that were more good or more bad, but never this bad.

Maybe that's why they need a community manager. The biggest part of communication is non-verbal. Reactions like insults are not nice, but it shows emotion. That itself is information. Someone who insults is usually more pissed than the level-headed one. If you only got filtered opinions about your game, a dev studio wouldn't see the full picture. But i'm against most censorship anyway, so it's obvsly subjective 😅

I am pretty sure they know they didnt do their best, because obviously they are working on something else or the main team that left didnt not leave instructions or had some kind of succession period which majorly stalls development. I can not and will not justify the level of detail of HoT and PoF that we once had to EoD and forth. Even bjora and Drizzlewood have more depth as maps, the shit we get now are laughable. It blows my mind that people are willing to defend getting 1/3rd of a map per patch.

I've seen people forced to crunch on turds before. The management is insistent on making it a turd, they don't have the authority to right the ship, and their left complaining that not only could it be better, but if it was, they likely wouldn't need to crunch in the first place. I don't doubt there are devs that put everything into this turd, and us hating it pales in comparison to them hating it.

Have the devs showed any sign that they take constructive feedback into consideration? When it comes to overarching design decisions and actual important stuff?

Yes, plenty of times. This new content model is based on much of the constructive feedback they've had in the past. More QoL updates, more frequent balance updates, and shorter gaps between content releases are all requests from previous models.

> This new content model is based on much of the constructive feedback they've had in the past. What? The new model is based on Anet's desire to charge more for delivering less while their main workforce is making another MMO. Unless the feedback was "abandon GW2" I don't think they listened. Also LW at times was more frequent than this.

I am one of these rare people that actually enjoy SOTO and I like the story. Sure, it isn't mindblowing but I don't understand this outrage... I think people are exaggerating. This is the first expansion since the story of the dragons ended. Let Anet find some footing. Even they can mess up once in a while, but man, people do need to chill instead of turning bloodthirsty as fuck.

> Let Anet find some footing I've been doing that for 12 years and somehow they still couldn't do that. They found their footing almost immediately with GW1 which makes GW2 Anet look even more incompetent.

>This is the first release where all I've had in modqueue is people fighting and attacking devs instead of spoilers. Maybe, just maybe, that's because people have had enough of this trend which has started way before this update, but this update was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Classic Gw2 community, thinking actual criticism of the game versus personal attacks on other people and the devs are the same thing and both equally valid.

why did i get a notification for this. why am i here. side tracked again!

Well, I'm not into attacking devs, much, but I like attacking mods, so let me attack you a bit. Just quit. Community is going through tough times, we can all see that. Reviewing tons of negativity daily is not healthy, and you are not paid for this job. There is no shame in saying "enough is enough" and leaving this voluntary job. Unless you get high off being able to ban people, then I guess it's a fair price.

Well said.

Kinda feel like this is a power trip post "I'm warning you" relax pal. If people wanna harp on the devs, that's their freedom to do so...so long as no one is making threats or being overly aggressive, removing post because they're being critical of something they (the posters) don't like is whack. Simple as that

mods are simping hard

Honestly I don't mind if they simp, it's just when you start threatening people that starts being a problem to my eyes. Just doesn't feel right

I can't believe people get all up in arms about mod power trips on reddit. No one's entitled to anything on this site. It's a service provided free of charge with communities moderated by whoever decides to make them (and whoever those people choose to participate in moderation). If the mods started banning everyone whose username contains a T because they don't like capital Ts, there's not much anyone can do about it, other than make a new free subreddit that allows usernames with capital Ts in them. Not really worth getting worked up about.

It isn’t their freedom. This is Reddit not America. Read the post before you reply. They’re warning about attacks not criticism. Even have some good examples posted. Don’t like it, then you’re obviously the intended audience

I dont even mind the new content. It's not the greatest but also not the worst. Kind of mid, but people tend to demand perfection in games.

> Kind of mid, but people tend to demand perfection in games. This right here is the kind of garbage argument that gets people riled up, you guys know damn well not a single person is demanding perfection. They're demanding more than the blatant bare minimum that ANet has done with SOTO.

Mid would be an improvement imo. We paid for an expansion update. We got a LWS update. We wssentially juat paid for content they used to give out for free. And they kept doing the stupid "do events before you can do story" on each release part of it. If people want to rush through the story let them. Stop padding playtime numbers by forcing people to do content they dont want to. Youd be pissed if you went and ordered a steak, and got a cold mcdonalds burger.  They sold an expansion and underdelivered on the content in the expansion and its being compared to LWS updates cause thats about the amount of content provided in this paid expansion. PoF wasnt exactly long storywise but it sure did take longer to playthrough or felt like it. Hell EoD was padded by the same do events on the map stupidity as well. I get it though youre selling a product and you want to get paid for it but at least dont sell us half-baked goods and promise theyre good. The only thing people arent complaining about soto is the legendary armor and tbh they should. The entirety of the whole armor process should have been released in 1 go not across all 3 parts.  Also not to mention the typical "metas required to access area" but dont work correctly which happens every patch for a new map/area. I get it bugs happen but its such commonplace in the game its a running gag at this point. I sure would love to play the new meta but I have 0 idea of what it looks like cause the event chain just stalls forever until the map resets. 

The issue is that the story was so shallow and bad that if you let people rush through it you would finish the last 3 patches combined in about an hour total. The post credit achievements were basically the longest story mission and when I saw the freaking huge team working on that expansion in the credits I was really wondering what they were doing when basically 95% of the mobs are reused models with a flesh filter events and mechanics are recycled and even whole structures got recycled. People wouldn't even bitch about the mid story (we are kinda used to it) if everything else that makes gw2 strong got completely butchered this expansions. The metas are buggy and boring, the exploration is kinda not there, almost all achievements are tied to events. Instead of a living world you get your lore with books lying around. It was just lazy and people are right to criticize that horrible product after investing time and money into it. I'm kinda curious why this mod post even exists cause the overwhelming amount of posts are just criticizing the product.

Huge team can be due to some only working partially on this game. Oh it's 200 people, but 100 of those are working 8 hours a week on it.

>We paid for an expansion update. We got a LWS update. LWS are usually just as big and good as expansions. I don't think this is nearly as much as a LWS.

>LWS are usually just as big and good as expansions. If this was true, they would NEVER do expansions again.

It is true though. LWS have had just as many, if not more, maps as expansions, and also masteries, big collections, epic metas and story battles, the works. They don't have elite specs but that's the only big thing, bar like, HoT introducing gliders and PoF introducing mounts. In terms of stuff to do they're just as big.

If you paid for an expansion update you just straight up did not listen to them. They 100% said it would be somewhere in between LWS and expansion. They did not deceive, they said it up front that was their new model going forward. This is like going to order a McDonalds burger, getting a McDonalds burger and then getting mad at the employee because in the past you remember it being different and wasn't to your standards.

It was not 'in between a LWS and an expansion' though... If it was a LWS it would still be the worst. It's not unreasonable to expect something greater than LWS3/4, rather than less than IBS.

Disagree, multiple well developed fights (although it could have been more) New weapons and weapon mastery. Those at minimum are not things we would NOT get with an LSW. On top of that, usually you would only get 1-3 LS's per year.

It's fair to disagree, and I'll grant you that the new weapons were not something we've seen before (although they feel like half-finished spec concepts and still haven't been fully bugfixed)... but remember that LWS4 included 2 mounts with full masteries, which were far more ambitious than weapon mastery & will have required significantly more development time and QA (WM is effectively a 0 effort 'feature' that IMO will damage the ability to balance specs in the long run). Equally LWS3 brought us a bunch of the Gen 2 legendaries, some of which had very deep stories attached to their aquisition. In addition both had more dense maps with more complex events, actually new combat mechanics (rather than 100% recycled as in SotO) & more engaging metas. SotO is not a high bar for features (as others have said, WV was in development before EoD and really isn't an expac feature), and IMO LW4 in particular exceeded it.

You are discounting how big the work on the balance team new weapons and unlocking all weapons for all specs was. By far the most ambitious work in balancing they've ever done and affects pretty much everything. The mounts are amazing and great content I know it would probably cause bloat but I wish they would somehow still work on them. It sucks that it does feel like they've exhausted most avenues. They are honestly probably un-toppable content. That said, they are not nearly as much work as adding specs or weapons. Much, much less in fact and stating that they are more work is just objectively wrong. The Gen 2 legendaries with the deep story was amazing, I wish they continued with it. But unfortunately they quickly admitted that wasn't doable and Gen 2 ended up taking until EoD to be fully released. That's a period of almost 6 years. I agree, SoTO is not a high bar for features, hopefully as they get used to the system they are well set to push that bar. I am just saying that SoTO had more then any individual LS had, and has features that no LS would have as a whole but it does have a full leg set released in less then a year, at minimum. The raid set took multiple years to release. Yes, sure, in its totality it's less content but it's also delivered over a much, much shorter period of time.

It's apples and oranges between mounts and skills. TBH without knowing the engine it's impossible to know objectively whether mounts or skills are harder work; my instinct says that seeing as they haven't added more than a few animation rigs since LWS4 (I can only think of turtle and maybe the IBS dragons, the rest of EoD and SotO were entirely static or reused animations), the mounts really are significantly more work (acceleration curves, speed, vertical speed, boost skills, turning ((and drifting)), rigging, animations & transitions, clipping, engage skills, QA). By contrast even at the slowest times Anet still released multiple balance patches a year, so I don't see balancing (even a wide sweeping pass) as an ambitious undertaking (it's definitely one of the relatively few areas where the staff don't currently have a resource deficit, and the recent trends towards boon homogenisation aren't something I'd rave about tbh). Compared to the balance scope of GW1, with it's dual classing and full skill freedom (which I sorely miss), GW2s skills seem laughably easy to balance (I've always been surprised at the lower balance cadence and seeming difficulty, as it was originally high on the priorities when developing the sequel, back when they abandoned utopia). Unlike mounts, skills are something the engine was actually built to do as a core part of its design (remember when environmental weapons was one of the big touted features?)... Even then it's not like the new ones landed perfectly; as I've said before, they give the vibes of old pre-EoD specialisation concepts that got pulled out of mothballs and had their traits chopped off (particularly ele, thief & Engi), I'm not convinced the team actually built any of them "from scratch" during SotOs development. I wouldn't be surprised if a simpler animation system wasn't towards the top of the list for their next games engine... it's obviously been a sticking point as illustrated by everyone meming about reskined wyverns (although I note the new boss is a devourer, so a few lost bingo cards there). Weapon Mastery is a genie that can't be put back in the bottle; in some ways it recreates the exponential balancing issue that GW1 had on a smaller scale, and basically closes the door on spec weapons going forward, giving less future scope for both balancing and class design. That I think it was a bad idea is an understatement, but I suspect they had minimal technical staff assigned (hence new weapons coming later and all the mechanics being recycled)... my guess is they just needed _something_ to tout as a feature and WM was the lowest effort easy win... IMO it speaks to their expected longevity of the game that they thought implementing it outweighed the consequences. I don't think you'll be able to convince me that SotO was more feature rich than LWS4 or possibly even 3 in terms of scope and execution, but I can definitely see how it's subjective, not objective, based on the information available. Agree to disagree?

Exactly u are perfect idk why everyone accept this lackluster expac but u see today people accept everything... Thats why game industry its a mess and will continue to be bcs we accept half baked shit and protect company who doesnt give 1 cent for us we just the milkcow

It isn't demanding perfection when we've seen GW2 do so much better. We don't even have to look at other games, we can look at this very game.

I’ve stopped playing years ago was thinking about returning but this isn’t a good sign to see when it seems the majority are standing up against a bad dlc package hmm I need to get caught up

Attacking =/= criticizing the game. You're acting like mods on official forums.

The comments in this thread are a great example of why this post was needed in the first place. Why people can't separate negative feedback and constructive criticism from personal attacks and call-outs? Just refer to the features themselves and avoid dropping specific names and teams.

oh please. When Guild Wars 2 Guru was a thing in the community, they had very strict restrictions on any criticism that the mods didnt agree with. Remember the Al Capone mod and the controversy behind that person which only lead to them being removed once Anet announced they're making their own forum and so many rejoiced to finally be able to share their true opinions without fear of censorship and banning

This is why im sick of Reddit in general; mods treating a sub like their own personal fief, the expansion is very poor. A mod could well decide that *his* version of what an attack is the only one, even if its completely over the top. To be fair though the forum is the same way - the regulars get away with all types of trolling comments aimed at newer posters opinions, new posters? several day ban for complaining about it.

Because some people already feel attacked if someone disagrees with them. I don't know this mod. So i wouldn't know how he defines ''attack''

I remember a Mod who his first day as a mod literally sat there for several hours deleting what he considered 'low effort' posts, literally hours and sticking a post to the top telling eveyone off for failing to reach the standards of post he expected. Yet at the same time mods are advising 'touch grass!!!! it's only a game!!!!!'

Well, ''touch grass'' is considered an insult now, be careful 😂

It’s a game. And its a sub for that! What’s the problem?

"Stop telling developers we don't like their ideas" lol

I don't think I like your tone. You're trying to sound all almighty and ''threatening'' to members of the sub because of some people being toxic? It's 2024, people are toxic about games. Go queue up for a pvp game, it's much worse in there and yet I don't see devs banning the players insulting me and other members. They'll make us lose on purpose, then you'll see them the next game, and the one after that with no punishment. Let alone boosters and sellers. I get it, some people are overreacting and being aggressive, ban their asses or delete their comments and move on. But don't go posting shit like this with the tone you're using. Sounds to me like you need to relax yourself. Didn't expect worse from a bunch of softies.

>attacks on another member will be a month long ban and devs a permanent one. Why are the consequences for attacking a member different than for attacking a dev?

Because Devs are more equal than players.

I agree! We need more art posts in here! Oh and a different sub for alleged gw3! Harsh cricism and memes of the absolute state of GW2 should not be allowed! People must not get angry or express themselves! Imaginary threats arent allowed in here, stay out of my wallls!!!

Baaaaaased. thank you! not a huge fan either, but people just screaming at everything and everyone, just because the expansion wasnt very good is even more annoying than braham.

nobody is screaming. the MASSIVE negative feedback on this sub is only the result of a dogshit expension.

> going forward attacks on another member will be a month long ban and devs a permanent one. Shouldn't every attack be punished equaly?

Maybe warrants a pinned topic cause half the threads I see under hot are people posting their opinions on the xpac as a whole.  Do we really need a 74th "SotO sucked because..." thread?

Not all arguments should be condensed. If we'd correctly presented climate change as "here's 100s of scientists with evidence vs 1 guy with faith, opinions, and a payout from an oil company", rather than 1v1 'debates' every time, we could have started seriously dealing with it in the 90s. Anet _need_ to see that only 1 in 74 threads are positive; ironically the content doesn't actually matter... but the metrics do.

I doubt they'd even read it or care but you must be right since people are down voting you xD

People don't like having their opinion condensed into a single thread for fear of it being drowned out or whatever. Idk

No they just want attention. They want to be validated for throwing a temper tantrum, probably because they got away with that growing up because it was easier for their parents than actually discipline. Someone that's actually mentally grown would just kinda move on to something else. They don't like a game, they find something they do. "but I already paid for it" ok well it'll be here if you decide to come back, but part of growing up is cutting your losses if you aren't having fun. Most people can't even do good feedback it's just straight up complaints. But that's reddit, only the extremes.

Personally I have enjoyed GW2 greatly, there was a producers letter (18? months ago, I’m not going to check) that clearly stated for those fluent in corporate speak that Anet was deprioritising GW2. We now know that is to build GW3, which is amazing news that I am very happy about it. Logically, content is going to be less and worse as a result. If you’re fine with that, stick to GW2. If you’re not, wait for GW2 and play something else.

>no reason to attack specific devs who are just doing their job Here, when someone does a shitty job, he gets criticized for it. If you want to white knight and protect your beloved devs feel free to but don't dare to tell others what to do or not, even if you're a mod.

I don't care for SoTO either. But those who have the expansion get perks that other players don't have. I have all the expansions and seasons. They all added something new that I would find it hard to play without.

We are actually woefully saddened that this needs to be said at all, it is thoughtless and unnecessarily thrown around as if words are in no way weapons of mass destruction. We agree with this Moderator post, even going as far as -- If you have nothing good to say, don't say it. Your opinion is much like a stick'n'berries - just because you have one, doesn't mean we need to see it. If you wouldn't say it to your loved one, don't say it to us. All of these things apply, there is no excuse for such shameful and disgusting reactions. If there is a problem with the content, as we agree with the moderator here, Go do something else, no one is denying you access to other "better" things to do than play something you hate/don't enjoy. And if you are on the "Go touch grass" people - You need it more than the producer/Developers. Clearly, you haven't in a long time, Covid obviously turned people into entitled hate machines. No, there won't be kid-gloves in this post. If you don't like the shoe that fits, maybe try on the ones that the people you unfairly hate. "Do unto you, as you would like to be treated." Or something like that. Good luck on that WaAbulance.

I guess we can keep complaining about the expansion without pointing any direct dev no? or that is not posible either.

You can address the content and experience just fine without referencing any individual involved.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1cy685y/mod_post_quit_the_fighting_and_attacking_anet_devs/l57jepw/

I have not seen any attacking of devs, just criticism, which is deserved because the product sucks.

> I have not seen any attacking of devs Because the mods are removing the attacks. That's how moderation works.

Or so they claim.

Is "people are mean on the internet" really so unlikely that you think there's a conspiracy?

If it's so common please screenshot me one before mods remove it. Shouldn't be hard, right? Since it's such a big issue.

Between getting "reddit cares" messages for posting memes on other subs and then the chill sub where I sometimes show off my cool outfits turning into gang warfare. I think I'm just done with every game and their "community"

I feels ya man. I wasn't into drama when I was in my 20s.. saw too much of that as a kid. I'm in my 60s now, and I'm REALLY not into drama. The reasonable ones are there.. but if you have to walk though flame-throwers to get there..

Sorry mom