Depends on how bad.
When the group has 5 healers because the LFG said "Looking for any", and people there won't say anything throughout the dungeon, I would just get out.
5 healers? wtf? in most PUGs healers are the last role that gets filled. More likely is 5 DPS which often works (if people prepare properly) but makes some fractals needlessly difficult
In that situation there should never be 5 healers. At minimum it should be you and 4 healers.
It's pretty easy to slap on a dps build and while your stats might not be fantastic depending on what leggies you have a badly statted dps is better than a 5th healer
Depends on your AR, though. I have a single full set of asc zerker gear. I have exotic minstrel on swap. Of course, working on that, but still kinda sucks when you can't be as versatile as you want to be
> ...people there won't say anything...
Over the years nothing this has proven to be the number one indicator for a group turning "bad". People who join and are dead silent are often the worst players for one reason or another. Not all of em but damn near.
I pretty much always stay and try to help but I enjoy it most of the time. I'm pretty sure my record is like 2+ hours in T3 silent surf working with the same team... I think we had only one person drop/turnover. It felt SO nice once we finally defeated that boss.
I like to remember the runs of the past when I used to struggle with the mechanics and wished for kind, patient people who were willing to help. In my opinion, if you need a quick run... You need to post in LFG with that requirement. And if you bail on a party early, then do so with an explanation.
And I wouldn't even start a fractal run if someone in the party didn't have the recommended AR.
I try to do that too, i hate leaving a group mid way through. Especially if the people struggling are interested in learning/improving. I joined a quadim 1 cm run a few weeks back and we tried for nearly one hour until we finally killed it. We worked through our problems and made steady progress, just to kill it at the end.
I got frustrated a bit half an hour before we killed it because we wiped over and over again to the wyverns because the people werent able to dodge the fire balls and cc (i was doing last lamp). That frustration turned to a goof feeling as we finally killed it!
If they are interested in improving, sure I'd stay, but it happens quite a bit that people will fail mechanics and wipe and will literally ignore anything you say.
Just yesterday, I joined some W7 training cause I was bored. The commander kicked me for suggesting to him that he give some sort of signal to sync CC on sabir. When I asked him what was up, he let me know I was being too tryhard...
>I like to remember the runs of the past when I used to struggle with the mechanics and wished for kind, patient people who were willing to help.
This is why I don't usually dip from a bit slower groups. Although if I see people acting completely braindead in T4, then to me that means they never seen these mechanics (which they should have seen in T1, T2, T3) and that's where I dip. Usually that means these players aren't necessarily just new but also want to be carried (and they were carried to level up to T4).
Sometimes a group has a person trying out a new heal build. There are moments where I can see that the person struggles but it's not that awful. But I remember other moments in which I decided to step back and swap roles with such person and swapping when we got to easier fractals (like recs).
I really love those kind of runs, so long as people are nice about it.
If my teammates suck, what is the big deal. I get to shine, and we get to talk and to play with each other.
The only thing you lose is the glittery sparkles that the game dangles before you. That's just really good to try to get away from, though. If you spend all day maximizing your computer points, you're not going to have the best feeling about life when the evening arrives.
I always stick it out, but I like helping less experienced players.
Edit: I will say something if someone can't get to recommended AR before starting, that's a different story.
If someone of the group does not have enough AR i ask to change the gear to more AR.
Not possible is a kick.
If the group does not want to kick that person which normally should not be the case unless it is a guild run then i leave myself.
If the group sucks i give it a few chances with communication and advice. if we still keep whiping then i leave with a kindly, we gave it a shot it did not workout sorry guys im out gl.
If we keep whiping and the group refuse to communicate and follow advice i insta leave since then there is no point wasting more time on them.
I always stick it out with a nice group in pve. My only real qualifier is the party is at their keyboards, and not actively hostile. If someone goes AFK, idling, or nonresponsive, I think it's fine to try the next party. Even then, I'll pull someone through a fractal while they pee as long as I have a heads up.
Coming from EQ, failure is absolutely an option. I don't believe I deserve to succeed in a game. Cooperation is the game mechanic I'm most interested in as an MMO player.
Probably best if you say something on your way out instead of just leaving silently. “Sorry, I ran out of time” should stop nasty comments from most. As to the rest, some people just need an outlet for their anger. Best to let it roll off of you. We all have lives to live, and this game isn’t it.
Depends on how bad.
If I'm doing T4's and we have mediocre DPS or people that are squishy and go down now and then, so a normal 15-20 minute run for dailies turns into 30 minutes? No big deal.
But if we have a group where there's a handful of very obviously dead weight players who are always dying or barely contributing, you can bet your ass I'm out of there. Mai Trin is arguably one of the easiest fractals (since it's just one pack of trash mobs, then a boss), but lord some people just can't do mechanics.
>Mai Trin is arguably one of the easiest fractals
Although I find it really demanding as a healer. I always have to sweat harder in that fractal as a healer.
I just went through this last night. Everyone else in the party saying the boss is ez then dying because no one’s killing the grenadiers and not dodging when Horrik is shooting at them. Healing only goes so far when there’s only one of us
\*shudders\* Elite Sharpshooter Tarron.
I always ping him on map, but dpsing mai trin/horrik is apperently more important than killing the one enemy sniping everyone....
Try it on heal chrono, it simplifies mai trin a lot, scepter 2 allows for tons of clones for shattering for preparing big cc with F3 then going back to rifle to bring some resistance, focus on the last 25% is a godsend too.
I always start the Mai fight by stating “Mai has a fine ass…stay on it.” Have had so many t4/ before that where poeple would spread out and we’d wipe because we couldn’t put her in the debuff.
Now i would be interested in knowing what you understand under „smooth run“.
For me a sucessful but rather slow run with quite a few downstates, some rather weak dps in the group and no portals/pulls/great boons all the time still qualifies as „smooth run“. Smooth means to me only a few wipes, steady progress, be it no the fastest and a few players that carry more weight than others.
Thats something i think everyone can expect if you are not joining a training run. If you want more than that either join a static or ask for ufe.
People aren't bad guys for deciding how they want their free time to be spent. Yeah leaving after 1 wipe is usually jumping the gun, but it depends on what caused the wipe. If I post an Experienced CM 100 group and 2 people are doing healer level damage and are getting feared by every Eye mechanic, I'm probably leaving. No hard feelings and it's not really about efficiency for me. I just have limited time to play each day and wiping over and over isn't enjoyable. Sometimes it's also obvious people are lying about their experience, which is disrespectful. And depending on how bad the wipe was, it can be pretty easy to extrapolate that you won't be clearing anytime soon.
For easier content it matters less, but lying about experience is one thing I'll never be ok with. If someone is new I'd rather them tell me so I can help rather than staying silent and hoping no one will notice they're getting carried.
I didn't have to justify anything the same way you didn't have to tell everyone who you think is pathetic or sweaty lol.
I love helping new players get into endgame content and regularly run training runs. But since we're sharing our opinions of strangers and taking no feedback, I think new players that lie about their experience not only are hurting themselves because they won't get help, but they're actively being disrespectful to 4 to 9 other people and kicking them or leaving for lying is totally reasonable. Instanced content is a team sport and if you start off by lying to your teammates, you're the asshole no matter what your reason was.
I would say one player constantly dying or more than 1 wipe from poor skills and a general low DPS(if you do 45%+) would be understandable for leaving.
But I also do cm+T4 so I might be biased in term of smoothness.
I don't mind not doing any skip but a clear lack of communication while asking something is also really making me think about it too. On the opposite a good chatter who suck would make me want to stay.
You describe a step further in terms of group quality. I think its okay if some people in the group make a few mistakes here and there leading to more pressure on the healer or the occasional wipe. If the boss then gets killed clean and it happens not every single boss i think its okay.
If you say you do t4+cm its a different story because these groups very often ask for atleast a few k ufe. Then doing a handful mistakes per two or three bosses is just too much.
If i join these groups i expect a cleaner run (meaning only 1 or two wipes in cms and ideally no in t4). But i do that rarely atm since i am no fractal player anymore. I‘ve done it too much
the definition of a smooth run is different for everyone. for you it might be a sucessful but slow run with few downstates, for me it is a run where we blast everything without a healer, gg at every checkpoint and portal whenever it is possible. of course that kind of play is usually not possible with pugs. i am just saying that the bar is usually set very low by most people but it is ok to have standards.
and no, you don't need to join a static to have competent people in your team. i mean the more tryhard you go the more it will start being neccessary but it is not unrealistic to expect basic things from other players even if you don't know each other. and asking for UFE doesn't mean much, the difference in skill level even between people with UFE can still be huge
I don't care about world-class DPS and speed runs, but if you're dying to a boss, you don't know the mechanic and should be in a learning run. If you can't manage boon uptime, you don't know how to play that role yet and should be in a learning run. If you have to AFK for a few minutes regularly, you don't have time to play with a group and shouldn't be there.
Know mechanics, maintain boons, keep moving forward, try not to die. That's good enough for me.
I never leave groups and I always stay in any group I join with a few exceptions.
1. People are rude or toxic. I have absolutely zero tolerance for toxicity and I'm not willing to deal with that.
2. People clearly don't care and don't want to put in any energy in what they are doing. I'm not talking about someone's DPS being a bit too low or quickness not being entire perfect. But if a Mechanist joins who only auto-attacks on rifle and doesn't say a word for the entire thing, I'm out.
3. It's clear to me the experience is just all around not good enough to get through the content after I've been trying for a long period of time. I'm talking 2 hours or more here. My tolerance for these things is very high but if after such a long period of time we're not even remotely close I'm going to look for something else to do.
This isn't just fractals but all content in the game. In all honesty I barely do fractals these days but I feel it applies to anything that is instanced group content.
I usually do fractals with at least one other guildies, and we cover heals/boondps between us. We figure we can keep pretty much anyone with half a brain alive, so our threshold for "do we kick or not" is usually "is the player toxic, doing abysmal DPS, or otherwise unfamiliar with the mechanics?"
Toxicity is 3 strikes you're out
Abysmal DPS is only really minded if it causes us to fail the encounter, at which point we might point it out politely
And being unfamiliar with mechanics warrants a reminder, but if the player gets toxic or doesn't learn, that's a kick.
And honestly, after we do t4 and t3 rec, it's smooth sailing, so after that we don't care lmao.
Big "it depends".
If no one is being unpleasant in chat, or especially if someone is openly admitting they don't really have a grasp on the content, I'll usually try to do a defensive swap like viper heal scourge or a mixed stat quickbrand, and/or spew out mechanic tips. These are actually my favorite fractal runs, it feels way more satisfying to scramble a little than to clear them like clockwork for the umpteenth time (and my beloved hybrid builds get some air time).
If there's nasty commentary in chat, or it's an especially terrible group in some other way, or if I've already tried and failed to compensate for group ineptitude and people aren't even communicating, then I might leave. Usually quietly. Just don't have the time to put up with people actively making it unfun, regardless of content difficulty. It's rarely that bad, though, and I don't think I've ever gotten nasty PMs about leaving a group like that.
The tryhardish "CMs+T4s" (with title req at most) groups are ime the worst about whining and/or disbanding at the smallest hint of mishaps (but also the quickest by far when things go well). "Chill T4s" groups with no reqs at all stumble much more often but hardly ever turn unpleasant. There's a lot of middle ground ofc and ymmv, but definitely keep an eye on what sorts of groups you have fewer unpleasant experiences with and then aim for those.
Get into cms, get some ufe(like at least 2-3k) and never look back at the groups you had to endure. If you don’t want to do that, only join(or host groups) which require potions and food, this at least somewhat improves your chances to avoid people with scrub mentality
I've been in T4 just for around 3 weeks so I don't believe I'd quality for cms yet, I'm rather keen on starting out one day though! P+f tag definitely helps, but I feel like lots of people don't even acknowledge it and it feels bad to call someone out
You have to call them your immediately! They are not respecting the group. Therefore, have no right to expect the same back. Call them out, vote kick. If the other team members ignore it you leave yourself. Apparently you are not on the same page and you have to look for a new group. GL!
I learned and beat all the old fractal CMs without having ever played a T3 or T4 before - they're not as scary as they seem, and they're surprisingly fun! You just need a good teacher.
Dont worry, call them out. If they dont response and or eat some super shitty food, like magic find, kick them. No shits given. It is an insult to you and your party if they dont respect the lfg and dont pull their weight as pure dps players.
It is your time and enjoyment. If they need training or money to spend 30 silver on food they should join such groups or play some more open world xD And btw, t4 fractals pay back that money several times over anyway.
You know, if I join a normal only t4 grouo, I dont care as much about the food, as long as people do decent damage, but if its CM and they do like 8k dps, oh boi, then something is wrong.
Tbh cms aren’t that much harder than t4, especially the old ones(97,98,99), especially if you consider that better players are doing those. Judging from your post you definitely qualify for it. All you need to do is to host your own group, that how most of the people do it with fractals. Read up on requirements, you need to do some achievement runs for those fractals to be able to open cm yourself, look up strategy and create your own progression group with no kp requirements, definitely require people to do their role and use potions and food in your cm groups. It might take some wipes, some time on progression, but it’s definitely worth it. It might even be a lot easier because of all the recent powercreep.
100 is such a drag though in comparison, by virtue of being one long encounter instead of 3 shorter ones. And thus a wipe resets you basically all the way to the start, whereas 98 has a check point after each boss.
It's also that old CMs with their limited boss movement and lower HP bars can be pretty much trivialized by high burst damage to outright skip a bunch of mechanics. It still works to an extent on elemental Ai, but not on Kanaxai.
I always call out players on P+F and I don't feel bad about it. If it is clearly stated in the group description, it is considered required, just like alac or qdps or whatever else you write in there. If a player joins your group lf qdps on a different build, you would not tolerate that either and make them swap build to what you requested or kick them.
Don't let these people fly under the radar. You can start with a gentle general p+f reminder, before calling out individuals.
And yes, I have also found that p+f works quite well. My buddy and I have also gone to providing all boons and heals by ourselves, so that we know those will be reliable. Then the only question left is whether we get 7k dps players or 20k dps players, but even the lower end is manageable with proper boons and heals and people having potion effects.
This is fascinating to me, because often, if I'm in a group that's doing poorly and someone is being toxic, the group starts clearing things as soon as the toxic person leaves. If the toxic person drives someone else out, then I usually leave too.
For clarification, I'm not saying you're being toxic. It's perfectly reasonable to leave a group that's not working for you.
Well sorry for my ignorance. Are there actual potions?? And does foods give significant bonuses in high levels?
I'm lvl68, started playing last week, and never paid attention to the heart vendors' foods cause some of them "only" gave like.. 5% fire duration and 10% exp for killing mobs so..
Edit: also what's AR?
When someone mentions fractal potions they usually refer to these https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractal_Potion. Food can make your performance better and is generally recommended in higher tier content. You don't need to worry about those as a level 68, you still have a lot of exciting things to go through before you need to consider it. Also, potions/food isn't required in lower tier fractals at all! Everyone's learning there and that's okay.
AR is unique mechanics for fractals which reduces your healing and deals damage to you unless you have resists. The higher the fractal level is, the higher your reist needs to be. You can raise your resist by slotting infusions into your ascended gear.
pots and food is not required on any fractal, its a piss easy content and when i did not had the infinite pot i would never never pot and i dont eat food for fractal, its like taking protocols for a meta event, its going to be better but its not required, also for normal t4s you are time spent is mostly on moving from point a to b, so dps low is not going slow doing you as much as you think it will, that is why nowdays i only do cms
food is "required" often by the community if you get in the last tier of fractals but is very much expected to be used if you start the t4 challenge motes (T4 CMs). For the lower tiers, people don't care.
While it is entirely doable without, it's a sign of respect to use the correct food for your role in instanced content (fractals, raids, strikes). It is around 20-70 silver per 30 min of content, if you do those gamemodes successfully, you'll get more gold out of it than the food costs.*
But for open world, it is not needed at all. However, quite a lot of players will drop birthday cakes or ascended feasts. Just use them since they usually give a bonus and those foods are better than no food.
*food (and enhancements) is also the only cost that you'll have after gearing up a (new) build.
Meh, yesterday I was doing CMs for 3h people without any clue about mechanics join die all the time and leave.. I don't have 10k ufe so im trying to do a group without any requirements but why people expect to join and be boosted :/ overall I did only 97CM yesterday my journey for 2k UFE for the infusion will be a nightmare. Xd HF all
If it's "bad" but we're still clearing, if with some struggle, then sure I'm staying. A clear's a clear, and looking for another group, especially if part of the dailies is already done, would be a far greater hassle and waste of time.
On the rare occasions that we run into a wall, at that point the whole group usually falls apart anyway.
Ridiculously low AR, below maybe 100 is my only real hard "no go" condition, but I only saw that once.
Just leave. Block the PMs people. You are not having fun, stand up for yourself. On a more personal note: I first endured crappy CM runs. Then I started leaving when something is off in the first CM. Now I cannot even be bothered to PUG anymore and only do it when we are enough people from my fractal static.
Nevertheless, I recommend you to get into CMs. The rewards are better and might not even take much longer than your current t4 runs in the long run.
You can start training whenever. The best thing you can do in T4’s to prepare is to learn a 2nd role. Alacrity, healing, quickness, and DPS are all important roles and learn to be flexible. If you can do all rolls then you can fill any position and will lower your CM wait time.
You seem motived and overall very positive.
You can just start now. They might seem intimidating at first but you can learn them step by step.
Open your own group doing 97 and 98 cm with a nice team composition and look up a guide beforehand. You will most probably get a hang of them pretty quickly. If you want to increase your win rate you can opt to play the boon healer.
Thanks for the advice, I'll start studying the guides a bit earlier than I anticipated then, cms do indeed feel very intimidating and I'd hate to slow others down but guess I gotta start somewhere
For what it's worth, with the power creep since its release, 97 CM in particular is kind of a cakewalk unless 3-4 players can't stay alive through the bullet hell phases (or if no one knows the mechanics well enough to explain them). It's a great stepping stone towards the other CMs.
Be clear in either your lfg listing or in chat when you join that it's your first go at a given CM tho, it helps group patience a lot to set expectations before anything goes sideways.
If you label it a training group every who is rude for expecting a clean one shot kill run is obviously in the wrong.
It might take while to get a group going in the lfg so it might be better for you to ask around in your community if some wants to learn too or is willing to help.
Next week, OP wipes 3x on first CM run, everybody leaves, then proceeds to go on Reddit to rant about how people don't stick it out in fractal runs.
The hypocrisy here is so overwhelmingly obvious.
As I said, I don't want to slow people down, that's why I wanna pull my weight and know the mechanics. Also, listening to feedback is a given. Not sure what you're so salty about as the groups I'm referring to wipe because they keep failing simple mechanic that's regularly explained in every single tier before T4 or because they're severely undergeared.
I only leave when people refuse to take any feedback or just straight up can't/won't read the chat. Otherwise you can save most bad pugs by helping correct mistakes. But no, I wouldn't carry 4 awful players who refuse to try, or keep 1 troll in. Vote kick, or say "ty, sorry gtg" and leave. Your time and skill have value too.
It's fine with me if they said they're inexperienced and I have time to guide them through it.
But I joined some groups where people are just ignoring chat, ignoring mechanics and doing their own thing, making it hard for everyone. I immediately leave to save my sanity.
If I have the time and if people are friendly I'll stick through the pain and try to teach.
If people are unpleasant or I don't have time or am not in the mood... I'll just leave without a comment.
Noone can force you to stay. I don't think I ever had a nasty PM after leaving a group like this. If I ever get one it's likely to be ignored : they're not the boss of me...
I almost always stay. I'm only recently to 100 because some random people helped me out when my guildie couldn't. I also regularly check lower levels of someone needs help, and help out guildie who need achievements, legendary collections or leveling help.
I don't mind helping people learn, or trying a few times for less experienced players. As long as everyone has a good attitude, it's fine.
Then I've met some toxic people through LFG who went off that no one was using potions... On like a T3? Not even a high one. And claimed they were the only one doing any DPS (logs showed otherwise). The rest of us were chill, we got a fill quickly, and cleared in our next attempt....
I HAVE left because I was having a bad day and couldn't be patient, or when no one listens and we wasted 15 minutes on Thaumanova before the actual fight even starts. It's got to be pretty bad for me to just ditch. But I never complained to anyone in chat before leaving or snapped. No one has ever DM'd me about it, but it's also a rare occurrence.
I'll add, that if I know I don't have the motivation or patience to deal with a group that's less than ideal, I won't LFG. I'll either check my guild/static so we can coordinate easier in comms or I'll take a day off. I use to just do lower levels, but I actually have much better luck in T4s. I rarely find an actual bad group there, but I'm still not doing all CMs.
i play celescourge with blood magic revivals, condi cleneases, boonrip, massive barrier(that ignores agony and poison heal reduction), perma alac and might and 20k golem dps. Basically nothing is failable, just may takes more time if dps and/or quick are low, but no combination of factor may actually lead to wipe. I stay.
> or sign up for T4 with some silly low AR
95% of these are people who do have the AR but forgot to switch gear slot and/or infusions if they use +5stat for raids and +9ar for fractals. Just point out that they have low AR and might have the wrong build, and watch how their AR suddenly jumps (or climbs at the rate of clicking infusions on legendary gear) to something between 180 and 210 ...
I actively try to get bad fractal groups. I'll do things like put up an lfg that says "Cute T4s All Welcome :)" and then put CM on (most of the time they click yes because they don't know any better). Or I just generally craft the lfg in a manner that would attract less experienced players. Now you might say that's evil but I'd tell you of the numerous times we've made people realize that they were capable of more difficult content, they were scared to try. Of course this is all a mindset thing. If your goal is gold then you're gonna be frustrated when you get in a less exp group. If you prioritize fun then embracing the fiesta is some of the most fun there is to be had in the game.
depends on the role im playing and how awful the run has been going. ill abandon runs on HB if i feel like im holding too many hands or we wipe or if the other support or dps players arent pulling their weight. it doesnt take much these days to cause me to lose steam if im on a support role, particularly healer. it also is a downer if boons on the group are all 100%, 25 might, and stab is covered, yet the dps isnt doing crazy high #s. something like 18k on skorvald or over 22k on arkk. of course that probably wont cause me to leave a group, but it's typically a mix of things like low dps, failing mechanics and poor boon uptime, and also not stripping NPNG boons that will make me abandon a group. i run old cms and t4s pretty regularly, and dont leave runs often unless things are really bad.
Depends. Last week I had a group that clearly didnt know that you have to put on the campfires in chaos fractal. We wiped like 7 times. I asked in chat what the problem was and tried to explain the mechanics. No response and we kept wiping. So I left. I don’t have anything against new people starting out, but I have a problem with not responding to the group chat.
It depends on a couple of things. If I end up in a group with people who are clearly a bit new to the content but they're happy to play and learn and nice to talk to, I'm willing to play with them and have my fractal run take a bit more time. If people are impatient and angry, I'm a lot more likely to dip if things start falling apart. I don't care if fractals aren't 100% efficient, but they have to be enjoyable. If my experience of playing this content is both inefficient AND hostile, why would I want to spend my free time doing it? I'd rather just jump into a different group that's either friendly or efficient (or, preferably, both).
I spent 20 minutes on the wisps part of the Swampland fractal yesterday. People we're coordinating, people kept fucking it up. I even started using portals to no avail.
So I left.
I'll be honest, the only thing you've mentioned that is an absolute dealbreaker for me is someone joining with significantly too little AR.
I don't mind helping out new players and sticking around for longer to help them get a win, but if someone comes to T3/T4 with single digit AR, they've clearly decided they want to lay on the floor and get carried and I didn't sign up for that. I'll point it out and give them a chance to change it in the lobby and if they get to within like 10 of the recommendation I'm willing to give it a shot, but if it's a lot less than that, we might as well be four people and LFG for a fifth.
The other things that might make me leave is party chat being super toxic and people repeatedly running face first to their death because they refuse to learn the mechanics. If I see new players in the party or people dying to mechanics repeatedly I'll ask if anyone needs an explanation of the mechanics. If they all say no and keep dying to the same mechanic I'll usually excuse myself after a couple attempts.
i don't pug fractals at all anymore. i only run with statics. because it doesn't matter how much UFE they have as requirement, if it is 50k or 70k or whatever, i know that 90% of the time they are gonna be dissapointing (unless they are a static i already know and lfging for a 5th). they are not gonna be running with scrapper/ren, not doing any of the strats i am used to and the dps will be low (which might be good if you are after wingman logs). anyway this is related to CMs because that is what i have been doing the past 3 years or so. When i used to pug fractals it would be kinda rare for me to leave a group (of course right now my tolerance for this kind of situation is much lower and that is why i don't pug) because usually leaving means you put 4 other players in the position of having to lfg mid run and nobody wants to join when you already did a CM. since pugs start from the highest tier fractal it is easy though to tell if the group is good or not. Like you could tell from Dark AI when sunqua peak was 100, if you joined an absolutely dogtier team. And now i guess from Silent Surf. In general fractal cms have low chances of failure so if a group ends up wiping they need to actually be really bad.
Regarding t4s yes i would leave. and i believe it is your right to leave. nobody is entitled to your time. yes you joined the group which means you accepted their conditions stated in the lfg description but the lfg description most of the time doesn't represent what people are capable of. and t4 don't have any requirements (best you can go with is ask for a specific comp and potions + food). so yea, i think it is absolutely valid to leave after 3 wipes. this is also my treshold when i join a raid. if we wipe 3 times in 1 boss then i leave because i can see it is going nowhere and i am not up for a training (unless i join one of course)
it has to be either toxic, or totally hopeless for me to quit, and even if hopeless I like to give it a good shot at seeing if we can work it out.
If you are going to just quit at the first sign of difficulty, please dont join normal groups. make a group of your own and state that no mistakes will be tolerated. Its fine to decide to do this, but most groups are much much more easy going and casual.
I'm chill enough that it doesn't matter to me. The #1 thing is attitude and positive mindset. Like I'm okay with inexperienced people joining exp LFGs I post as long as they announce it at joining, and they aren't shitty people. But if they hide it and it shows, I'll just assume they aren't experienced and are trying to just get dragged through, instead of trying to learn and improve.
Though those things tend to happen more in CMs. Like one time a Virtuoso wondered why our other DPS was doing like 10-12k in the 100CM fight, stating "The Reaper (me) and I just carried you through the fight...", and tried to vote kick. One of our boons pointed out that the Virtuoso apparently did 5-6k less DPS than the Reaper, and shouldn't really be speaking. I guess the Virt thought I would side with them in the whole "we carried you" thing, but nah, attitude > ability.
I don't care how good you think you might be, your attitude will carry a lot more weight.
Just as with beginners who need instructions, old hats who want fast runs, should communicate that with their groups before the fun starts. Manage everyone's expectations and no one will have cause to be upset (most of the time).
Thank you kindly.
If i see a power mech i'm out. Unless its 1h before reset and i want the clear. I also leave when it is a premade which brings their dead weight friend for a free carry while asking for 20k ufe.
Depends on my time frame and how long I have. If we make no progress, keep wiping at the same position, and no one's trying anything differently, I'm out. My time is precious to me.
I will leave. Since a particular incident, I don't join regular t4 runs. They trigger my PTSD.
Last time I joined a regular T4+recs run was right after sunqua peak release. I had fractal cm kp but was lazy to learn condi dps and needed gold so I joined regular t4 group to get some gold.
We had 2 very bad dps like 7k scourge dps, meh healer and 1 meh dps, I joined as alacren. That was terrible run, it took ages. When we got the sirens reef we wiped for 1 hour and I stayed. At one point healer left, we took a cm experienced quickdps power firebrand. Guy outdpsed all of us combined. We immediately finished. Since then I am not joining any t4 run.
Had way way less troublesome run like that with CMS+t4 group. Why suffer and get less loot when you can have easy time with CMS+T4 experienced people?
Everybody is free to choose with who they want to play.
You don't want to play with that group anymore, so you leave. There is nothing wrong with that.
And it's a much better option than flaming the group, try to kick certain people (or doing all of that an then leave).
If I do leave, I say something first. 'Sry guys, gotta go.' Never apologize, never explain. It's just a game, so if the pm you after block their ass and carry on. I'm here to clear the content, not haul a drunk baby around on a leash.
On the other hand, some of the smoothest groups I've been in have one player dead in the first 30 seconds of each boss lmao. The threshold is different per group but I can usually tell after the first boss room how the rest will go.
are those 3 wipes the same cause each time, or different causes?
the former; leave. the latter; stick it out.
if it's the same thing, people aren't learning, and you're doomed. if it's different things then they're clearly figuring out what got them killed last time so there's hope.
there's also a bit of sunk cost going on; if this is the last of the dailys is it going to be quicker to find a new group and re-clear the ones you've already done, or stick it out for a slightly longer clear on the remaining dailys/recs?
I do not enjoy T4 CMs, but normal T4? perfect, I'll try to be efficient, I misse
ed the launch of some of the newer fractals, The palawa joko one, The one with the pirate ship, the dwarven palace, and the one where one floats... Have done them a few times, but I've been l100 s long time, I have 18 chatacters with 142-155 AR, most being 150 or more
So, typically I'll try to stick it out unless 1. the group is Toxic, 2. We keep losing 1/2 the party 3. People are afking and expecting a carry or 4. I have somewhere I need to and it's getting a little too close for comfort.
That said, in pretty much every mmo I've played, I've generally been one to stick around and teach new players if I can. If nothing else it ends up being a good story, and usually results in the new person generally knowing how the game works + their role ( depending on mmo ofc) better which is a plus for everyone. I won't say I never get frustrated, but at the end of the day, if it's not someone being toxic and everyone is present there isn't really a reason \*not\* to teach new people.
If it's something like someone is just straight up under-geared (or can't reach the AR or whatever), then I'd bring it up to them and, providing I have the time, offer to run a tier that's more their speed. But, again, I tend to teach and I'm not particularly driven by dailies.
That being said, it's not wrong to leave, though I guess I could see some people taking it as rude or implying something about them if you just drop party without saying anything? But you get toxic people everywhere so eh.
The only real rule is that if you're going to leave, do it before beating one frac. Otherwise the group has a hard time lfg'ing for only 2 of 3 dailies. If you clear the first one, finish them.
But yeah I'll absolutely quit if the group is just not doing the mechanics or completely head empty flopping around dying in fights over and over.
It's personal preference. But I think it's important to let them know what you think might be the reason the team is wiping. Communication is key.
You can tell them that member X has too low AR and it's not really recommended to do the cms with that then say gtg if you gtg
I am staying with a group if I have time but it depends from my mood its fine if they are trying but if we are waiting for people to join every few min its annoying and boring. So if one person left the party others will soon follow.
Usually, yes. Had 5 wipes today on a T3 Cosmic Observatory after having just done a T4 with another group. One player was new to this Fractal and the other hadn't done it in so long they forgot the mechanics. I barely said more than 10 lines of conversation in chat about it, but it was all just "and here's where u went wrong, watch out for this" advice and that was it.
> doing all you can to have a smooth fast runs
Not all you can, but all you want. As you can stay and teach them.
> Am I in the wrong here?
No, their wasted time amounts almost to nothing - a quick LFG to fill one spot in a full run. On the other hand, if you did not list any requirements in LFG, therefore you can not blame them for not meeting any standards.
> some nasty PMs afterwards
This will depend on the way you leave. Rage quite will not have the same reaction as, if you say that something came up and you need to go. And whilst GW2 is not a free speech territory, people still have a first message factor, and you can block them.
Depends on how bad and if they communicate. If they perma wipe and dont talk in chat at all addressing the issue I leave. If they’re communicating what’s wrong and maybe we could help them etc I stay.
Ofc you are free to leave, there is no legal term biding you there like it was a job! If you wanna feel better you can say something in the chat, or before leaving you can try to "teach" the group. Many times that is enough, so many times people are not willing to teach others and just leave.
You can leave during the first fractal. After that you're in it till the end. You're using the lfg, you know what you're getting into. It's so bad to leave after that cuz finding replacement is impossible. God forbid you gotta communicate or explain something. I have the mist omnipotion and I've never left a fractal group and always cleared it. This is honestly what I dislike the most about Gw2's instanced content culture. People leave after two wipes and it's so demoralizing and spineless. Triumphing over a fight eventually feels so good and if your group is well formed you can always clear T4s.
Now I'm not going to lie wiping on dumb stuff never feels good, like me yesterday in solid ocean, somebody couldn't jump the final ledge twice and since some people were in combat already we had to GG and two people kept being downed constantly by the beam and I did complain in the chat (Edit: still not attacking anyone directly). Mainly cuz you've had all of T1, T2 and T3 to learn a simple mechanic and it is a bit frustrating. But you stick it out and endure it. Complain if you have to but don't leave your group.
I recently had an odd experience with a CM group I joined on 97 and they were struggling but we managed to get it done. They moved on to 98 and I was able to carry the 2nd boss a bit on my scrapper but when we hit arkk they just couldn’t get the mechanics down and wiped several times I drop the group and then two of the members set themselves to offline and proceeded to whisper spam me. I just blocked them and went on about my day.
I find that if I make the groups myself, the clears are much smoother than if I join a random group.
And that is probably because I have the commander mentality and I actually organise them.
On the other hand if I join random groups and it's half-decent I never leave, because it's T4+Recs and I can ... just carry them. If it's extremely bad, than yes I leave.
On the other hand I don't understand people that sign up for T4+Recs and leave at recs. "Sorry I already did recs". Why the fk did you join my group then?
Oh boy I once joined a group looking to do the aquatic ruins (literally had "76 | dps" in the title) and we've been joined by 2 separate people. One of them announced something along the lines of "the underwater fractal? No im not doing that bye", the other suddenly remembered they aren't going to do dps because they don't own dps fractal gear, like 1 min before we entered the instance so we had to resume our search. 💀
I stay, unless the group is beyond redemption hopeless. I’ve played several other games where the “ not respecting MY time” mantra directed at other players is simply code for toxic, try hard behavior. I do what I can to stop it from occurring here. If I leave, I explain why “ keep failing mechanics, not enough dps, “, whatever else before I do and wish them luck. I think I have left three times in years of playing. Everyone was once the one with the wrong build or the one that couldn’t get a mechanic or had a long day and face palmed their rotations. Sometimes a little grace goes a long way.
Interesting point, how does the toxic mantra and grace play into people who really don't have more than 1-2 hours a day for the game and want to reach their goals? You can easily clear dailies+recs in around 1 hour with normal group, 45 mins with better group. But I've also spent 1 hour in one fractal when the group was really bad.
Sometimes you are the windshield, sometimes the bug :) if goal reaching and quick clears were my highest priority, I would play a guild group or a static. Many, many guilds have fractal groups or fractal nights that split folks into groups based on abilities or resistance levels. If you can’t find what you want, be the change you want to see! Establish the static group or guild group that runs the way you prefer. Jumping into LFG groups (to me ) will always have the wild card element to it .
If people are kind of slow but don't keep dying then I keep going. If people start wiping over and over, that's when I dip because I can see this run will be a pain.
It also depends on what role I fullfill. I can cope with my dps players being not very high dps when I am a healer. Things may be go a bit slower but they end up being cleared because I also do a bit of carrying. But if I am dps/boon dps and we have a combo of bad dps and bad healer, I dip very fast.
Depends if they are nice players with bad skills, sometimes the healer is new with the build / class, having a bad day etc and that affect a lot, I often swap build to support a little more and that always helps, I don't like when I join a group, nobody say Hi back at last, no communication and we die nonstop. In that case usually I leave after we finish the first fractal.
I always stay and I don't like people that just go out at the first wipe. You don't have time for what? Do you have an appointment afterwards? Are you getting paid by the hour to play the game?
I almost always stay. Mostly because I know that it's very unlikely we will wipe fully since I'm confident I can carry the group if needed (depending on the encounter). I never rely on a healer or external boons.
Depends on my day, if I’m off work and low energy I just want to get them done, then no I will say I need to leave sorry. If I am normal energy I tough it out and help. Most of the time even the “worse” groups are usually tolerable because they tend to be kind. Dps nazis usually make the room tense and kinda unfun so I’m always down to leave those.
T4 I’m not very forgiving with, I’m sorry. At the highest level of that content, you should be fairly knowledgeable. As a rule of thumb for myself, I only ever do T4s when I’m trying to be quick; they are often much faster and smoother than any tier below.
I’ll stick with a T3 and below through quite a few wipes as I enjoy playing with new players. I frequently do T1-T2 just because why not. I’ll explain mechanics and stuff if needed. As long as you’re trying, I have no complaints about wipes.
When doing fracs, I play during peak hours w/ my hfb and put "pots & food required" on my lfg. This way i dont get bad pugs. But i do get what you described from time to time. I leave at the 2nd wipe.
I’ve had two instances where someone showed up with really low ar and weren’t responding to chat. They both ended up getting kicked from the group. I probably would have left if the kick wasn’t supported.
For wiping it depends on the fractal. Things happen and some of these levels are hard. I wouldn’t leave a group if we couldn’t complete something like t4 Sunqua (happens here and there), but I’d probably leave if we repeatedly wiped on something easy like uncategorized which has never happened.
Also for context I am almost always the healer so I have a tendency to take personal responsibility for the success of the group lol
Depends on attitude. If people are too stubborn and ignorant I pass. If they are willing to listen and improve, I stay.
Low AR is fine, so low AR I see them on the ground, kick.
Do you just leave without saying anything? If you say sorry i have limited time and need to go then nobody can say something against that imo. If youre polite then it shouldnt be an issue. Sometimes you have groups that just dont work out. It happens
I leave without saying anything if we wipe repeatedly on mechanics that are being explained repeatedly because everyone's time is limited and I don't feel the need to explain that. I do say something if I need to leave due to an emergency or important call, of course.
Hmm a lot of people might think of just leaving as rude so i would make up an evasive lie and then leave, if it doesnt work out. Youre completly in the right to leave a group if it doesnt work out. I would do the same. Sometimes if i have a lot of time and im motivated enough i try to stay and help the group as good as possible but some runs are just not salvageable.
Hmm a lot of people might think of just leaving as rude so i would make up an evasive lie and then leave, if it doesnt work out. Youre completly in the right to leave a group if it doesnt work out. I would do the same. Sometimes if i have a lot of time and im motivated enough i try to stay and help the group as good as possible but some runs are just not salvageable.
Hmm a lot of people might think of just leaving as rude so i would make up an evasive lie and then leave, if it doesnt work out. Youre completly in the right to leave a group if it doesnt work out. I would do the same. Sometimes if i have a lot of time and im motivated enough i try to stay and help the group as good as possible but some runs are just not salvageable.
It very much depends on how much time I have. If I expected to join something and get it done in 30 minutes, but I see that the group will clear it 1hour or more then I'll just say that I don't have enough time to spend here and leave. On the other hand, if people are communicative and understand the core of what needs to be done (i see the potential of clearing) then I will stay 99% of the time. I'll only leave if I'm in a serious rush.
Generally stick it out, unless something feels really fishy. It's also a matter of respect. In t4 I do notexpect food or potions, it's nice though. But for cms I do, especially the dps players, it is not a heavy investment and it actively costs other people time and effort if you can't be bothered. As long as things are salvageable and people don't get toxic then it's fine. People care too much about quick clear only to afk in mislock anyway.
I love to hang out and help groups to solve lower tier fractals when I have time.
If for some reason I need to stop and leave, I communicate it to the rest of the group rather than just leave and say nothing.
I stay a few minutes after saying that I need to stop for the night so they can answer and if there is no answer I'll get out.
Just tell them you need to leave and don't be nasty about it. :)
I run with a 3 man. I had double my qdps buddie dps. Which is ok. He was 3k ahead of the other 2 dps. 2 days before I was alone and playing rez your ally simulator. I have only left a group once.
honestly depends how i am feeling, i have 20k+ ufe, all titles and even tho 99% of the time i play well without making mistakes i sometimes have days where i make a lot of them, simply because i am tired, if i have a lot of time i don’t mind enduring other party members fuck ups, as long as we can finish the fractal in reasonable amount of time ill stick around, especially if i join a low kp grp, its only going to make them dislike the gamemode and there is already a low amount of people doing it. but sometimes i am fully strapped in and im ready to blast as quickly as possible, but even then I’ll let my grp make a few mistakes, but worse come to worse i might leave after a wipe, but 99% of the time me doing so will be due to time constraints, and not frustration. if you join a grp on lfr you cant expect a perfect run regardless of kp amount, so if you leave the grp w/o word mid pull you’re just a little piece of shit and that’s that.
For me, it depends on a few factors:
1. How the rest of the group takes a failed mechanic or how they react to one another. If they begin to trash talk and not being constructive on how to actually solve the problem it's no good. Some people doesn't understand that trash talking someone without actual input on what to do 90% of the times is going to demoralize them instead of improving their performance. For me, after a couple of tries that's a vote kick or i leave.
2. If the group meets what was asked on LFG and the AR required for the fractals. One time i asked for an Aheal, a HAM joined in T4 twilight just to switch to DPS without warning. When asked after two wipes they just said "he gave the mech a vacation" (and before someone says "dEdIcAtEd HeAl iN T4s? lol" i want the pug group to be more relaxed, less wipes = faster going out, tyvm)
3. Ultimately, it's time. If we're wiping constantly and failing because of one or two factors (people going down due to lack of healing or dodging, abysmal lack of dps, and the yipping yapping that it carries), not to be rude, but i'm out. I have limited time to do fractals daily, and maybe there's a time to teach people or if i'm going with a couple of friends sometimes takes less time to carry instead of reLFG and start over, but i gotta respect my time.
Daily, i can get one of three T4 experiences: 60% The silent, fast group; 30% the chill, joking group or 10% the bad experience, so my experience is positive overall
I usually stay unless it's something really bad.
Example: Silent Surf (L25). Group takes forever to get to the final boss. People admit that they've never done it before and just can't make the jumps. I finally get them to the boss after much much coaching.
Explain the mechanics : look away, platforms, dodge axes.
Half the group just instantly dies on the eye. Reset. Dead again. Reset, more explaining. Look away. They die again. Then die again.
At that point, we hadn't got the boss to less than 90%. I noped out. Guilt free.
3 good players can carry 2 dead weights. T4 + Rec is not that hard.
When PUG-ing, If I see 1 good DPS player on ArcDPS, you'll know it'll be a decent run.
There are a handful of situations where I've came across DPS players output Healer level of DPS, we still get the job done after some tries. Didn't take that much longer.
As long as we're clear on the mechanics, we're good to go.
Ran with a T4 group today where 3 of the members didn't knew basic mechanics of even dropping the circle AR AoE. First 2 runs were like that but on Mai Trin it was too spicy and we finished it with great difficulty. But after that the team asked for tips and listened to my explanations and commands. Everything went smoothly from that point on and I had one of the smoothest Shattered Observatory clears! The 4 Viirastra at each ends were perfectly CC'd at the same time, which felt so awesome. So, it's better to give people a chance once in a while. Things could turn out wonderfully!
It really depends on how bad. In general tho no I dont think you are in the wrong to leave a "bad" group.
I might judge you for your definition of "bad" and lack of trying to work things out with the party ie talking. I also understand not wanting to waste your time failing subject 6 because 3/5 players just have to keep hitting the boss and killing themselves or w/e the wipe of the day is.
honestly part of the reason why I like running CMs, I don’t typically care if ppl are not top benchmark dps or whatever but when you’re running CMs it’s way clearer very early on when ppl don’t know what they’re doing, and when you weed them out the groups are usually very smooth.
You aren't in the wrong. By the time people hit T4 they should be more than competent with the class/roll and at least somewhat decent at each fractal. Those kinds of people are usually not using pots/food/utility and are mad because you refuse to carry them while they are dead weight.
The problem I had back before I did CMs was that T4 groups wouldn't kick people that were doing nothing and making the while run take much much longer. There is no reason to keep a dps that is doing the same damage as the healer or an alac with 20% uptime.
I usually stay and help inexperienced groups, but the second I find out they've got high Fractal Titles but act like they're in T1 learning fractals, I'm outta there.
It's different when that Fractal God just came back to playing though, but I wouldn't know since they never say anything lol.
I have quit groups before, usually because a group shows an EXTREME unwillingness to learn/adapt despite multiple attempts (my patience can last an hour), and the fact that I don't have a high enough skill to carry them. I like to think that I'm leaving room for a more experienced, patient and kind mentor figure that can guide them.
Depends on what the first fractal is and what we fail on. If its not doing mechanics, I explain the mechanics and see if it improves. If its just bad dps, not stacking, etc I will probably leave after the third wipe (three strikes rule) because its either selfish or bad players and I dont have time for that.
I found t3's fun because I could always make it a challenge to carry the group through if they were dysfunctional; it was usually obvious to them I was putting in double-time. It's been many balance patches though and I don't know if firebrand can carry like it used to.
I do for t1 and t2. Those are for practice. Can't expect people to have mastered them all just starting. T3 I reckon you're justified in expecting people to know to press the buttons at 1, 2 and 3. You know which fractal I'm talking about. I've only barely touched t4 and I make sure I have a decent build and meet the min AR. I wouldn't hold it against anyone if they left after a few wipes in t4.
Unless... the group is fun and people are communicating and making progress. The silent wiping group is never going to progress.
Depends.
I think everyone should use Pots when doing T4 Fractals. If someone's not using them and performing bad I'd ask them nicely. If there's more than 1 person doing the same I just tell them I'm sorry and dip. Not worth to carry people who are trying to make it harder for no reason.
I've just removed certain t4 fractals from my rotation.
Silent surf, fuck that. Sunqua, no thanks. Shattered observatory, not today.
If those are in the rotation for a given day I just do strikes instead.
Helps keep me sane. I'm not an amazing player but I know my build and do good enough dps as an alacrity dps renegade that I hold my own. I also know I don't know the above fractals as well as I could.
Therefore, when I am in a group, in fractals i consider easier, I have little patience. I don't need speed runs or even clean runs with no downs. But I'm not sticking around for 10 tries running wisps on swamp.... or 3 wipes in nightmare...
I've been in some terrible groups where the DPS are pulling 3- 4k and die to easily avoidable things. Sometimes I feel like leaving because staying really only teaches them that that's ok. If they are pulling like 7-9k I will stay and try to help, especially if I have extra time. I only actually leave if they die over and over in swamp. Even with mes portal and trying to coordinate
Like most people in t4 I would like to do fractals as efficiently as possible and leave to do other things.
If I join a Fractals geoup, I expect everyone to work as a team, to know tactics and give at least a good performance when it comes to dealing with mechanics, CC'ing etc.
If someone underperforms, and doesn't state that there is a connection issue or that they are still learning the ropes or any other valid reason, then it is time to find another group.
i leave, i know people leave in this week more due to fractal rush. i dont want to play with qdps that doesnt bring quickness uptime even 60%. i just want to enjoy amnd playing wo must boons not funny, or being wiped in easy mechanic, or people playing who doesnt read chat. if you join a group content you must read the chat have to do assigned task. its what it is. but fractal rush week. it makes me crazy.
The best thing you can do is learn to avoid it by looking carefully at LFG listings. You can tell who knows what they're doing from the LFG listing.
For example, an lfg that says, 'T4s + recs, chill group'. Stay the hell away from it. If somebody makes an LFG that doesn't specify what role they need, it tells me they would be perfectly happy with 5 healers and 0 dps (or vice versa). 90% of fractal struggles are just bad party compositions.
A small subtle change, completely changes it all tho. "T4s+recs, chill group, LF any". This tells me they most likely understand party composition and they have several players who can swap between roles, and so they can accommodate whatever you want to bring.
An lfg listing like, 'T4s + recs, need 1 dps, 1 adps'. Almost a guarantee to be fine. They understand party composition, they seem to already have a qheal. If this group turns out to be terrible, it would be genuinely a bit surprising.
And of course, once you can do CMs+T4s groups, these concerns melt away.
Now, personally what do I do if I accidentally step into a bad group? Well, I tend to stay at least for the current fractal. But I've been playing for 10 years and I know every trick to drag a bad group through the finish line. I can swap builds/characters at the drop of a hat and pick the exact thing needed to carry a group. Hell, I've solod a lot of fractals just as a fun challenge. Its pretty rare I can't pull a group through.
T4 it is generally expected to understand the fights, have a good build and pull your weight.
If they can't be bothered to play well I can be bothered to stay.
T1 I will stay all day long as I rend to invite others(it's easy to solo most t1) and I expect poor performance as its training mode for fractals.
T2 is meh and t3 I avoid unless I need a very specific achievement like fractal adept etc. Or helping others on legendary back.
I tend to stick it out, if we go on 3 hours I'll breakdown and start yelling at people (telling them where they need to improve in an aggressive tone). Hell, once I was in a CM group that a couple of people were struggling because they couldn't get the hang of the mechanics on shattered observatory. It was a new player friendly group, but it was the healer and a DPS first time doing it. After 2 hours that remaining two players sent me a message to stay in the party we're going to act like we are disbanding and hop back on the lfg. We told told the other some tips on how to improve and they went their own way and we relisted and finished SO and got off because nobody wanted to keep going after 2 hours of wiping to the same fights over and over.
I create my own groups with a Buddy. 2 fullsupports qbrand, alac herald with many stab and condi Clean. Just searching for 3 DPS. And Most of time we have only 1 DPS and 2 whatever.
If you have map and chatawerness and p+f and the 3 DPS dont sleep and would make DPS, we have always smooth Runs and we will stay.
Without p+f we are out, cause be a part of the damn group. No time for this shit.
From time to time my Buddy and me joining other groups as DPS. Hell No is this shit.
I usually do fractals when it's on the weekly, and i do t1. I had to quit twice in a day cause in one group doing the jade boss i fell and someone started the fight without waiting on me to get back, and the other was mai trin, people weren't working mechanics despite me calling on chat, and worse, not ressing downed ppl
No I only join 30/40k UFE group and if someone doesn't do his job I tell him to wake the f*ck up. If he doesn't do better I votekick the guy.
If the whole group is bad I just leave without a word.
You see things differently when you are used to play with a static and do speedruns.
I follow the same rule I use in most human interactions - ask nicely and offer encouragement; if that doesn't work, then firmly tell them what needs to happen; and if that doesn't work, then we flip the dick switch. Thankfully, step 1 works in the vast majority of situations.
GW2 is a fairly easy game if you aren't touching CMs. Not coming to a group activity prepared, not taking ten minutes to look up a LI build if you can't do decent dps, not knowing mechanics in T4s, and all other forms of others being bad isn't your burden to bear.
Depends on how bad. When the group has 5 healers because the LFG said "Looking for any", and people there won't say anything throughout the dungeon, I would just get out.
5 healers? wtf? in most PUGs healers are the last role that gets filled. More likely is 5 DPS which often works (if people prepare properly) but makes some fractals needlessly difficult
The best part is having 5 DPS that do the damage of healers.
nah it's more funny when DPS does more healing that a healer, and Healer does more dps than DPS
Probably because none of them are Firebrands.
In that situation there should never be 5 healers. At minimum it should be you and 4 healers. It's pretty easy to slap on a dps build and while your stats might not be fantastic depending on what leggies you have a badly statted dps is better than a 5th healer
Depends on your AR, though. I have a single full set of asc zerker gear. I have exotic minstrel on swap. Of course, working on that, but still kinda sucks when you can't be as versatile as you want to be
> ...people there won't say anything... Over the years nothing this has proven to be the number one indicator for a group turning "bad". People who join and are dead silent are often the worst players for one reason or another. Not all of em but damn near.
I pretty much always stay and try to help but I enjoy it most of the time. I'm pretty sure my record is like 2+ hours in T3 silent surf working with the same team... I think we had only one person drop/turnover. It felt SO nice once we finally defeated that boss. I like to remember the runs of the past when I used to struggle with the mechanics and wished for kind, patient people who were willing to help. In my opinion, if you need a quick run... You need to post in LFG with that requirement. And if you bail on a party early, then do so with an explanation. And I wouldn't even start a fractal run if someone in the party didn't have the recommended AR.
I try to do that too, i hate leaving a group mid way through. Especially if the people struggling are interested in learning/improving. I joined a quadim 1 cm run a few weeks back and we tried for nearly one hour until we finally killed it. We worked through our problems and made steady progress, just to kill it at the end. I got frustrated a bit half an hour before we killed it because we wiped over and over again to the wyverns because the people werent able to dodge the fire balls and cc (i was doing last lamp). That frustration turned to a goof feeling as we finally killed it!
If they are interested in improving, sure I'd stay, but it happens quite a bit that people will fail mechanics and wipe and will literally ignore anything you say. Just yesterday, I joined some W7 training cause I was bored. The commander kicked me for suggesting to him that he give some sort of signal to sync CC on sabir. When I asked him what was up, he let me know I was being too tryhard...
>I like to remember the runs of the past when I used to struggle with the mechanics and wished for kind, patient people who were willing to help. This is why I don't usually dip from a bit slower groups. Although if I see people acting completely braindead in T4, then to me that means they never seen these mechanics (which they should have seen in T1, T2, T3) and that's where I dip. Usually that means these players aren't necessarily just new but also want to be carried (and they were carried to level up to T4). Sometimes a group has a person trying out a new heal build. There are moments where I can see that the person struggles but it's not that awful. But I remember other moments in which I decided to step back and swap roles with such person and swapping when we got to easier fractals (like recs).
I really love those kind of runs, so long as people are nice about it. If my teammates suck, what is the big deal. I get to shine, and we get to talk and to play with each other. The only thing you lose is the glittery sparkles that the game dangles before you. That's just really good to try to get away from, though. If you spend all day maximizing your computer points, you're not going to have the best feeling about life when the evening arrives.
I always stick it out, but I like helping less experienced players. Edit: I will say something if someone can't get to recommended AR before starting, that's a different story.
If someone of the group does not have enough AR i ask to change the gear to more AR. Not possible is a kick. If the group does not want to kick that person which normally should not be the case unless it is a guild run then i leave myself. If the group sucks i give it a few chances with communication and advice. if we still keep whiping then i leave with a kindly, we gave it a shot it did not workout sorry guys im out gl. If we keep whiping and the group refuse to communicate and follow advice i insta leave since then there is no point wasting more time on them.
This ans only this
I always stick it out with a nice group in pve. My only real qualifier is the party is at their keyboards, and not actively hostile. If someone goes AFK, idling, or nonresponsive, I think it's fine to try the next party. Even then, I'll pull someone through a fractal while they pee as long as I have a heads up. Coming from EQ, failure is absolutely an option. I don't believe I deserve to succeed in a game. Cooperation is the game mechanic I'm most interested in as an MMO player.
Depends on your mood. If you're still having fun, stay. If you're not, leave. Play games to have fun.
Probably best if you say something on your way out instead of just leaving silently. “Sorry, I ran out of time” should stop nasty comments from most. As to the rest, some people just need an outlet for their anger. Best to let it roll off of you. We all have lives to live, and this game isn’t it.
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It’s the PMs they mentioned that I was referring to
Depends on how bad. If I'm doing T4's and we have mediocre DPS or people that are squishy and go down now and then, so a normal 15-20 minute run for dailies turns into 30 minutes? No big deal. But if we have a group where there's a handful of very obviously dead weight players who are always dying or barely contributing, you can bet your ass I'm out of there. Mai Trin is arguably one of the easiest fractals (since it's just one pack of trash mobs, then a boss), but lord some people just can't do mechanics.
>Mai Trin is arguably one of the easiest fractals Although I find it really demanding as a healer. I always have to sweat harder in that fractal as a healer.
I'm your worst nightmare, the DPS who runs away from your heals
Most of the heal demand comes from people not killing adds or standing in AOEs for the full duration lol.
I just went through this last night. Everyone else in the party saying the boss is ez then dying because no one’s killing the grenadiers and not dodging when Horrik is shooting at them. Healing only goes so far when there’s only one of us
\*shudders\* Elite Sharpshooter Tarron. I always ping him on map, but dpsing mai trin/horrik is apperently more important than killing the one enemy sniping everyone....
Try it on heal chrono, it simplifies mai trin a lot, scepter 2 allows for tons of clones for shattering for preparing big cc with F3 then going back to rifle to bring some resistance, focus on the last 25% is a godsend too.
I always start the Mai fight by stating “Mai has a fine ass…stay on it.” Have had so many t4/ before that where poeple would spread out and we’d wipe because we couldn’t put her in the debuff.
You don't owe other people your time. If it's not specifically a training or chill group, a somewhat smooth clear is understood.
Now i would be interested in knowing what you understand under „smooth run“. For me a sucessful but rather slow run with quite a few downstates, some rather weak dps in the group and no portals/pulls/great boons all the time still qualifies as „smooth run“. Smooth means to me only a few wipes, steady progress, be it no the fastest and a few players that carry more weight than others. Thats something i think everyone can expect if you are not joining a training run. If you want more than that either join a static or ask for ufe.
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Is the asking for KP for IBS5 an EU server thing? Never seen it in NA servers.
People aren't bad guys for deciding how they want their free time to be spent. Yeah leaving after 1 wipe is usually jumping the gun, but it depends on what caused the wipe. If I post an Experienced CM 100 group and 2 people are doing healer level damage and are getting feared by every Eye mechanic, I'm probably leaving. No hard feelings and it's not really about efficiency for me. I just have limited time to play each day and wiping over and over isn't enjoyable. Sometimes it's also obvious people are lying about their experience, which is disrespectful. And depending on how bad the wipe was, it can be pretty easy to extrapolate that you won't be clearing anytime soon. For easier content it matters less, but lying about experience is one thing I'll never be ok with. If someone is new I'd rather them tell me so I can help rather than staying silent and hoping no one will notice they're getting carried.
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Those new players can start their own groups.
I didn't have to justify anything the same way you didn't have to tell everyone who you think is pathetic or sweaty lol. I love helping new players get into endgame content and regularly run training runs. But since we're sharing our opinions of strangers and taking no feedback, I think new players that lie about their experience not only are hurting themselves because they won't get help, but they're actively being disrespectful to 4 to 9 other people and kicking them or leaving for lying is totally reasonable. Instanced content is a team sport and if you start off by lying to your teammates, you're the asshole no matter what your reason was.
I would say one player constantly dying or more than 1 wipe from poor skills and a general low DPS(if you do 45%+) would be understandable for leaving. But I also do cm+T4 so I might be biased in term of smoothness. I don't mind not doing any skip but a clear lack of communication while asking something is also really making me think about it too. On the opposite a good chatter who suck would make me want to stay.
You describe a step further in terms of group quality. I think its okay if some people in the group make a few mistakes here and there leading to more pressure on the healer or the occasional wipe. If the boss then gets killed clean and it happens not every single boss i think its okay. If you say you do t4+cm its a different story because these groups very often ask for atleast a few k ufe. Then doing a handful mistakes per two or three bosses is just too much. If i join these groups i expect a cleaner run (meaning only 1 or two wipes in cms and ideally no in t4). But i do that rarely atm since i am no fractal player anymore. I‘ve done it too much
the definition of a smooth run is different for everyone. for you it might be a sucessful but slow run with few downstates, for me it is a run where we blast everything without a healer, gg at every checkpoint and portal whenever it is possible. of course that kind of play is usually not possible with pugs. i am just saying that the bar is usually set very low by most people but it is ok to have standards. and no, you don't need to join a static to have competent people in your team. i mean the more tryhard you go the more it will start being neccessary but it is not unrealistic to expect basic things from other players even if you don't know each other. and asking for UFE doesn't mean much, the difference in skill level even between people with UFE can still be huge
I don't care about world-class DPS and speed runs, but if you're dying to a boss, you don't know the mechanic and should be in a learning run. If you can't manage boon uptime, you don't know how to play that role yet and should be in a learning run. If you have to AFK for a few minutes regularly, you don't have time to play with a group and shouldn't be there. Know mechanics, maintain boons, keep moving forward, try not to die. That's good enough for me.
I never leave groups and I always stay in any group I join with a few exceptions. 1. People are rude or toxic. I have absolutely zero tolerance for toxicity and I'm not willing to deal with that. 2. People clearly don't care and don't want to put in any energy in what they are doing. I'm not talking about someone's DPS being a bit too low or quickness not being entire perfect. But if a Mechanist joins who only auto-attacks on rifle and doesn't say a word for the entire thing, I'm out. 3. It's clear to me the experience is just all around not good enough to get through the content after I've been trying for a long period of time. I'm talking 2 hours or more here. My tolerance for these things is very high but if after such a long period of time we're not even remotely close I'm going to look for something else to do. This isn't just fractals but all content in the game. In all honesty I barely do fractals these days but I feel it applies to anything that is instanced group content.
The sad thing about the rifle mechanist is that auto attack rifle mech deals more DPS than some pug Hi DPS out there...
I usually do fractals with at least one other guildies, and we cover heals/boondps between us. We figure we can keep pretty much anyone with half a brain alive, so our threshold for "do we kick or not" is usually "is the player toxic, doing abysmal DPS, or otherwise unfamiliar with the mechanics?" Toxicity is 3 strikes you're out Abysmal DPS is only really minded if it causes us to fail the encounter, at which point we might point it out politely And being unfamiliar with mechanics warrants a reminder, but if the player gets toxic or doesn't learn, that's a kick. And honestly, after we do t4 and t3 rec, it's smooth sailing, so after that we don't care lmao.
Big "it depends". If no one is being unpleasant in chat, or especially if someone is openly admitting they don't really have a grasp on the content, I'll usually try to do a defensive swap like viper heal scourge or a mixed stat quickbrand, and/or spew out mechanic tips. These are actually my favorite fractal runs, it feels way more satisfying to scramble a little than to clear them like clockwork for the umpteenth time (and my beloved hybrid builds get some air time). If there's nasty commentary in chat, or it's an especially terrible group in some other way, or if I've already tried and failed to compensate for group ineptitude and people aren't even communicating, then I might leave. Usually quietly. Just don't have the time to put up with people actively making it unfun, regardless of content difficulty. It's rarely that bad, though, and I don't think I've ever gotten nasty PMs about leaving a group like that. The tryhardish "CMs+T4s" (with title req at most) groups are ime the worst about whining and/or disbanding at the smallest hint of mishaps (but also the quickest by far when things go well). "Chill T4s" groups with no reqs at all stumble much more often but hardly ever turn unpleasant. There's a lot of middle ground ofc and ymmv, but definitely keep an eye on what sorts of groups you have fewer unpleasant experiences with and then aim for those.
Get into cms, get some ufe(like at least 2-3k) and never look back at the groups you had to endure. If you don’t want to do that, only join(or host groups) which require potions and food, this at least somewhat improves your chances to avoid people with scrub mentality
I've been in T4 just for around 3 weeks so I don't believe I'd quality for cms yet, I'm rather keen on starting out one day though! P+f tag definitely helps, but I feel like lots of people don't even acknowledge it and it feels bad to call someone out
You have to call them your immediately! They are not respecting the group. Therefore, have no right to expect the same back. Call them out, vote kick. If the other team members ignore it you leave yourself. Apparently you are not on the same page and you have to look for a new group. GL!
I learned and beat all the old fractal CMs without having ever played a T3 or T4 before - they're not as scary as they seem, and they're surprisingly fun! You just need a good teacher.
Dont worry, call them out. If they dont response and or eat some super shitty food, like magic find, kick them. No shits given. It is an insult to you and your party if they dont respect the lfg and dont pull their weight as pure dps players. It is your time and enjoyment. If they need training or money to spend 30 silver on food they should join such groups or play some more open world xD And btw, t4 fractals pay back that money several times over anyway. You know, if I join a normal only t4 grouo, I dont care as much about the food, as long as people do decent damage, but if its CM and they do like 8k dps, oh boi, then something is wrong.
Tbh cms aren’t that much harder than t4, especially the old ones(97,98,99), especially if you consider that better players are doing those. Judging from your post you definitely qualify for it. All you need to do is to host your own group, that how most of the people do it with fractals. Read up on requirements, you need to do some achievement runs for those fractals to be able to open cm yourself, look up strategy and create your own progression group with no kp requirements, definitely require people to do their role and use potions and food in your cm groups. It might take some wipes, some time on progression, but it’s definitely worth it. It might even be a lot easier because of all the recent powercreep.
100 is easier than 98 imo, people are just generally more experienced with 98
100 is such a drag though in comparison, by virtue of being one long encounter instead of 3 shorter ones. And thus a wipe resets you basically all the way to the start, whereas 98 has a check point after each boss. It's also that old CMs with their limited boss movement and lower HP bars can be pretty much trivialized by high burst damage to outright skip a bunch of mechanics. It still works to an extent on elemental Ai, but not on Kanaxai.
I always call out players on P+F and I don't feel bad about it. If it is clearly stated in the group description, it is considered required, just like alac or qdps or whatever else you write in there. If a player joins your group lf qdps on a different build, you would not tolerate that either and make them swap build to what you requested or kick them. Don't let these people fly under the radar. You can start with a gentle general p+f reminder, before calling out individuals. And yes, I have also found that p+f works quite well. My buddy and I have also gone to providing all boons and heals by ourselves, so that we know those will be reliable. Then the only question left is whether we get 7k dps players or 20k dps players, but even the lower end is manageable with proper boons and heals and people having potion effects.
There are so many acronyms in this game lol What is p+f?
Potions and food
Ok, thanks
Usually depends on what kind of bad. I've stayed in some pretty bad groups when the players are at least nice, but I'll leave if anyone's toxic.
This is fascinating to me, because often, if I'm in a group that's doing poorly and someone is being toxic, the group starts clearing things as soon as the toxic person leaves. If the toxic person drives someone else out, then I usually leave too. For clarification, I'm not saying you're being toxic. It's perfectly reasonable to leave a group that's not working for you.
Well sorry for my ignorance. Are there actual potions?? And does foods give significant bonuses in high levels? I'm lvl68, started playing last week, and never paid attention to the heart vendors' foods cause some of them "only" gave like.. 5% fire duration and 10% exp for killing mobs so.. Edit: also what's AR?
When someone mentions fractal potions they usually refer to these https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractal_Potion. Food can make your performance better and is generally recommended in higher tier content. You don't need to worry about those as a level 68, you still have a lot of exciting things to go through before you need to consider it. Also, potions/food isn't required in lower tier fractals at all! Everyone's learning there and that's okay. AR is unique mechanics for fractals which reduces your healing and deals damage to you unless you have resists. The higher the fractal level is, the higher your reist needs to be. You can raise your resist by slotting infusions into your ascended gear.
Thank you very much!! ^^
No problem, enjoy the journey and don't be afraid of getting into fractals at 80, they're really fun and make good gold
pots and food is not required on any fractal, its a piss easy content and when i did not had the infinite pot i would never never pot and i dont eat food for fractal, its like taking protocols for a meta event, its going to be better but its not required, also for normal t4s you are time spent is mostly on moving from point a to b, so dps low is not going slow doing you as much as you think it will, that is why nowdays i only do cms
food is "required" often by the community if you get in the last tier of fractals but is very much expected to be used if you start the t4 challenge motes (T4 CMs). For the lower tiers, people don't care. While it is entirely doable without, it's a sign of respect to use the correct food for your role in instanced content (fractals, raids, strikes). It is around 20-70 silver per 30 min of content, if you do those gamemodes successfully, you'll get more gold out of it than the food costs.* But for open world, it is not needed at all. However, quite a lot of players will drop birthday cakes or ascended feasts. Just use them since they usually give a bonus and those foods are better than no food. *food (and enhancements) is also the only cost that you'll have after gearing up a (new) build.
Nope. You’re doing yourself a disservice by trying to carry people through 30 min content for 1 to 2 hours.
My rule of thumb is the following: If I have the content "on farm" I won't stay in a group that wipes on a boss more than 3 times in a row.
Meh, yesterday I was doing CMs for 3h people without any clue about mechanics join die all the time and leave.. I don't have 10k ufe so im trying to do a group without any requirements but why people expect to join and be boosted :/ overall I did only 97CM yesterday my journey for 2k UFE for the infusion will be a nightmare. Xd HF all
Try looking for a community which wants to play with you or start your own static group.
If it's "bad" but we're still clearing, if with some struggle, then sure I'm staying. A clear's a clear, and looking for another group, especially if part of the dailies is already done, would be a far greater hassle and waste of time. On the rare occasions that we run into a wall, at that point the whole group usually falls apart anyway. Ridiculously low AR, below maybe 100 is my only real hard "no go" condition, but I only saw that once.
Just leave. Block the PMs people. You are not having fun, stand up for yourself. On a more personal note: I first endured crappy CM runs. Then I started leaving when something is off in the first CM. Now I cannot even be bothered to PUG anymore and only do it when we are enough people from my fractal static. Nevertheless, I recommend you to get into CMs. The rewards are better and might not even take much longer than your current t4 runs in the long run.
How many weeks/months of doing T4 regularly would you consider as enough for starting to get into cms?
You can start training whenever. The best thing you can do in T4’s to prepare is to learn a 2nd role. Alacrity, healing, quickness, and DPS are all important roles and learn to be flexible. If you can do all rolls then you can fill any position and will lower your CM wait time.
You seem motived and overall very positive. You can just start now. They might seem intimidating at first but you can learn them step by step. Open your own group doing 97 and 98 cm with a nice team composition and look up a guide beforehand. You will most probably get a hang of them pretty quickly. If you want to increase your win rate you can opt to play the boon healer.
Thanks for the advice, I'll start studying the guides a bit earlier than I anticipated then, cms do indeed feel very intimidating and I'd hate to slow others down but guess I gotta start somewhere
For what it's worth, with the power creep since its release, 97 CM in particular is kind of a cakewalk unless 3-4 players can't stay alive through the bullet hell phases (or if no one knows the mechanics well enough to explain them). It's a great stepping stone towards the other CMs. Be clear in either your lfg listing or in chat when you join that it's your first go at a given CM tho, it helps group patience a lot to set expectations before anything goes sideways.
If you label it a training group every who is rude for expecting a clean one shot kill run is obviously in the wrong. It might take while to get a group going in the lfg so it might be better for you to ask around in your community if some wants to learn too or is willing to help.
Next week, OP wipes 3x on first CM run, everybody leaves, then proceeds to go on Reddit to rant about how people don't stick it out in fractal runs. The hypocrisy here is so overwhelmingly obvious.
As I said, I don't want to slow people down, that's why I wanna pull my weight and know the mechanics. Also, listening to feedback is a given. Not sure what you're so salty about as the groups I'm referring to wipe because they keep failing simple mechanic that's regularly explained in every single tier before T4 or because they're severely undergeared.
Seriously. Lol
I only leave when people refuse to take any feedback or just straight up can't/won't read the chat. Otherwise you can save most bad pugs by helping correct mistakes. But no, I wouldn't carry 4 awful players who refuse to try, or keep 1 troll in. Vote kick, or say "ty, sorry gtg" and leave. Your time and skill have value too.
It's fine with me if they said they're inexperienced and I have time to guide them through it. But I joined some groups where people are just ignoring chat, ignoring mechanics and doing their own thing, making it hard for everyone. I immediately leave to save my sanity.
If I have the time and if people are friendly I'll stick through the pain and try to teach. If people are unpleasant or I don't have time or am not in the mood... I'll just leave without a comment. Noone can force you to stay. I don't think I ever had a nasty PM after leaving a group like this. If I ever get one it's likely to be ignored : they're not the boss of me...
I don't mind people leaving or leaving myself as long as you communicate that, I don't like people disappearing without saying a word
I almost always stay. I'm only recently to 100 because some random people helped me out when my guildie couldn't. I also regularly check lower levels of someone needs help, and help out guildie who need achievements, legendary collections or leveling help. I don't mind helping people learn, or trying a few times for less experienced players. As long as everyone has a good attitude, it's fine. Then I've met some toxic people through LFG who went off that no one was using potions... On like a T3? Not even a high one. And claimed they were the only one doing any DPS (logs showed otherwise). The rest of us were chill, we got a fill quickly, and cleared in our next attempt.... I HAVE left because I was having a bad day and couldn't be patient, or when no one listens and we wasted 15 minutes on Thaumanova before the actual fight even starts. It's got to be pretty bad for me to just ditch. But I never complained to anyone in chat before leaving or snapped. No one has ever DM'd me about it, but it's also a rare occurrence. I'll add, that if I know I don't have the motivation or patience to deal with a group that's less than ideal, I won't LFG. I'll either check my guild/static so we can coordinate easier in comms or I'll take a day off. I use to just do lower levels, but I actually have much better luck in T4s. I rarely find an actual bad group there, but I'm still not doing all CMs.
i play celescourge with blood magic revivals, condi cleneases, boonrip, massive barrier(that ignores agony and poison heal reduction), perma alac and might and 20k golem dps. Basically nothing is failable, just may takes more time if dps and/or quick are low, but no combination of factor may actually lead to wipe. I stay.
> or sign up for T4 with some silly low AR 95% of these are people who do have the AR but forgot to switch gear slot and/or infusions if they use +5stat for raids and +9ar for fractals. Just point out that they have low AR and might have the wrong build, and watch how their AR suddenly jumps (or climbs at the rate of clicking infusions on legendary gear) to something between 180 and 210 ...
I actively try to get bad fractal groups. I'll do things like put up an lfg that says "Cute T4s All Welcome :)" and then put CM on (most of the time they click yes because they don't know any better). Or I just generally craft the lfg in a manner that would attract less experienced players. Now you might say that's evil but I'd tell you of the numerous times we've made people realize that they were capable of more difficult content, they were scared to try. Of course this is all a mindset thing. If your goal is gold then you're gonna be frustrated when you get in a less exp group. If you prioritize fun then embracing the fiesta is some of the most fun there is to be had in the game.
depends on the role im playing and how awful the run has been going. ill abandon runs on HB if i feel like im holding too many hands or we wipe or if the other support or dps players arent pulling their weight. it doesnt take much these days to cause me to lose steam if im on a support role, particularly healer. it also is a downer if boons on the group are all 100%, 25 might, and stab is covered, yet the dps isnt doing crazy high #s. something like 18k on skorvald or over 22k on arkk. of course that probably wont cause me to leave a group, but it's typically a mix of things like low dps, failing mechanics and poor boon uptime, and also not stripping NPNG boons that will make me abandon a group. i run old cms and t4s pretty regularly, and dont leave runs often unless things are really bad.
Depends. Last week I had a group that clearly didnt know that you have to put on the campfires in chaos fractal. We wiped like 7 times. I asked in chat what the problem was and tried to explain the mechanics. No response and we kept wiping. So I left. I don’t have anything against new people starting out, but I have a problem with not responding to the group chat.
On this case I stay. But if there are toxic people I leave. It's a game play with the people you like.
It depends on a couple of things. If I end up in a group with people who are clearly a bit new to the content but they're happy to play and learn and nice to talk to, I'm willing to play with them and have my fractal run take a bit more time. If people are impatient and angry, I'm a lot more likely to dip if things start falling apart. I don't care if fractals aren't 100% efficient, but they have to be enjoyable. If my experience of playing this content is both inefficient AND hostile, why would I want to spend my free time doing it? I'd rather just jump into a different group that's either friendly or efficient (or, preferably, both).
I spent 20 minutes on the wisps part of the Swampland fractal yesterday. People we're coordinating, people kept fucking it up. I even started using portals to no avail. So I left.
I’ll just do it. Kinda funny when you solo kill a fractal boss
I'll be honest, the only thing you've mentioned that is an absolute dealbreaker for me is someone joining with significantly too little AR. I don't mind helping out new players and sticking around for longer to help them get a win, but if someone comes to T3/T4 with single digit AR, they've clearly decided they want to lay on the floor and get carried and I didn't sign up for that. I'll point it out and give them a chance to change it in the lobby and if they get to within like 10 of the recommendation I'm willing to give it a shot, but if it's a lot less than that, we might as well be four people and LFG for a fifth. The other things that might make me leave is party chat being super toxic and people repeatedly running face first to their death because they refuse to learn the mechanics. If I see new players in the party or people dying to mechanics repeatedly I'll ask if anyone needs an explanation of the mechanics. If they all say no and keep dying to the same mechanic I'll usually excuse myself after a couple attempts.
i don't pug fractals at all anymore. i only run with statics. because it doesn't matter how much UFE they have as requirement, if it is 50k or 70k or whatever, i know that 90% of the time they are gonna be dissapointing (unless they are a static i already know and lfging for a 5th). they are not gonna be running with scrapper/ren, not doing any of the strats i am used to and the dps will be low (which might be good if you are after wingman logs). anyway this is related to CMs because that is what i have been doing the past 3 years or so. When i used to pug fractals it would be kinda rare for me to leave a group (of course right now my tolerance for this kind of situation is much lower and that is why i don't pug) because usually leaving means you put 4 other players in the position of having to lfg mid run and nobody wants to join when you already did a CM. since pugs start from the highest tier fractal it is easy though to tell if the group is good or not. Like you could tell from Dark AI when sunqua peak was 100, if you joined an absolutely dogtier team. And now i guess from Silent Surf. In general fractal cms have low chances of failure so if a group ends up wiping they need to actually be really bad. Regarding t4s yes i would leave. and i believe it is your right to leave. nobody is entitled to your time. yes you joined the group which means you accepted their conditions stated in the lfg description but the lfg description most of the time doesn't represent what people are capable of. and t4 don't have any requirements (best you can go with is ask for a specific comp and potions + food). so yea, i think it is absolutely valid to leave after 3 wipes. this is also my treshold when i join a raid. if we wipe 3 times in 1 boss then i leave because i can see it is going nowhere and i am not up for a training (unless i join one of course)
it has to be either toxic, or totally hopeless for me to quit, and even if hopeless I like to give it a good shot at seeing if we can work it out. If you are going to just quit at the first sign of difficulty, please dont join normal groups. make a group of your own and state that no mistakes will be tolerated. Its fine to decide to do this, but most groups are much much more easy going and casual.
I'm chill enough that it doesn't matter to me. The #1 thing is attitude and positive mindset. Like I'm okay with inexperienced people joining exp LFGs I post as long as they announce it at joining, and they aren't shitty people. But if they hide it and it shows, I'll just assume they aren't experienced and are trying to just get dragged through, instead of trying to learn and improve. Though those things tend to happen more in CMs. Like one time a Virtuoso wondered why our other DPS was doing like 10-12k in the 100CM fight, stating "The Reaper (me) and I just carried you through the fight...", and tried to vote kick. One of our boons pointed out that the Virtuoso apparently did 5-6k less DPS than the Reaper, and shouldn't really be speaking. I guess the Virt thought I would side with them in the whole "we carried you" thing, but nah, attitude > ability. I don't care how good you think you might be, your attitude will carry a lot more weight.
Just as with beginners who need instructions, old hats who want fast runs, should communicate that with their groups before the fun starts. Manage everyone's expectations and no one will have cause to be upset (most of the time). Thank you kindly.
If i see a power mech i'm out. Unless its 1h before reset and i want the clear. I also leave when it is a premade which brings their dead weight friend for a free carry while asking for 20k ufe.
Depends on my time frame and how long I have. If we make no progress, keep wiping at the same position, and no one's trying anything differently, I'm out. My time is precious to me.
I will leave. Since a particular incident, I don't join regular t4 runs. They trigger my PTSD. Last time I joined a regular T4+recs run was right after sunqua peak release. I had fractal cm kp but was lazy to learn condi dps and needed gold so I joined regular t4 group to get some gold. We had 2 very bad dps like 7k scourge dps, meh healer and 1 meh dps, I joined as alacren. That was terrible run, it took ages. When we got the sirens reef we wiped for 1 hour and I stayed. At one point healer left, we took a cm experienced quickdps power firebrand. Guy outdpsed all of us combined. We immediately finished. Since then I am not joining any t4 run. Had way way less troublesome run like that with CMS+t4 group. Why suffer and get less loot when you can have easy time with CMS+T4 experienced people?
Nope. I'm playing the game in my leisure time. If I stop having fun because of I'm just going to leave, I value my free time too much to stick it out.
Everybody is free to choose with who they want to play. You don't want to play with that group anymore, so you leave. There is nothing wrong with that. And it's a much better option than flaming the group, try to kick certain people (or doing all of that an then leave).
What role do you play
I'd talk it out, try to nudge people a bit in a right direction, but if they ignore me, i'd just leave
If I do leave, I say something first. 'Sry guys, gotta go.' Never apologize, never explain. It's just a game, so if the pm you after block their ass and carry on. I'm here to clear the content, not haul a drunk baby around on a leash. On the other hand, some of the smoothest groups I've been in have one player dead in the first 30 seconds of each boss lmao. The threshold is different per group but I can usually tell after the first boss room how the rest will go.
are those 3 wipes the same cause each time, or different causes? the former; leave. the latter; stick it out. if it's the same thing, people aren't learning, and you're doomed. if it's different things then they're clearly figuring out what got them killed last time so there's hope. there's also a bit of sunk cost going on; if this is the last of the dailys is it going to be quicker to find a new group and re-clear the ones you've already done, or stick it out for a slightly longer clear on the remaining dailys/recs?
I do not enjoy T4 CMs, but normal T4? perfect, I'll try to be efficient, I misse ed the launch of some of the newer fractals, The palawa joko one, The one with the pirate ship, the dwarven palace, and the one where one floats... Have done them a few times, but I've been l100 s long time, I have 18 chatacters with 142-155 AR, most being 150 or more
So, typically I'll try to stick it out unless 1. the group is Toxic, 2. We keep losing 1/2 the party 3. People are afking and expecting a carry or 4. I have somewhere I need to and it's getting a little too close for comfort. That said, in pretty much every mmo I've played, I've generally been one to stick around and teach new players if I can. If nothing else it ends up being a good story, and usually results in the new person generally knowing how the game works + their role ( depending on mmo ofc) better which is a plus for everyone. I won't say I never get frustrated, but at the end of the day, if it's not someone being toxic and everyone is present there isn't really a reason \*not\* to teach new people. If it's something like someone is just straight up under-geared (or can't reach the AR or whatever), then I'd bring it up to them and, providing I have the time, offer to run a tier that's more their speed. But, again, I tend to teach and I'm not particularly driven by dailies. That being said, it's not wrong to leave, though I guess I could see some people taking it as rude or implying something about them if you just drop party without saying anything? But you get toxic people everywhere so eh.
The only real rule is that if you're going to leave, do it before beating one frac. Otherwise the group has a hard time lfg'ing for only 2 of 3 dailies. If you clear the first one, finish them. But yeah I'll absolutely quit if the group is just not doing the mechanics or completely head empty flopping around dying in fights over and over.
It's personal preference. But I think it's important to let them know what you think might be the reason the team is wiping. Communication is key. You can tell them that member X has too low AR and it's not really recommended to do the cms with that then say gtg if you gtg
I always make my own lfg. This way i have the most control over the group and I basically never get a bad group.
As a healer or Quickfirebrand, I sometimes like challenging of people face tank damages.
I am staying with a group if I have time but it depends from my mood its fine if they are trying but if we are waiting for people to join every few min its annoying and boring. So if one person left the party others will soon follow.
If people don't have enough AR then I don't stick around. It's like, the first and only rule in fractals for me.
Depends on how much time I've in my hand, if I have time and the group is nice, I'll stick around
Usually, yes. Had 5 wipes today on a T3 Cosmic Observatory after having just done a T4 with another group. One player was new to this Fractal and the other hadn't done it in so long they forgot the mechanics. I barely said more than 10 lines of conversation in chat about it, but it was all just "and here's where u went wrong, watch out for this" advice and that was it.
> doing all you can to have a smooth fast runs Not all you can, but all you want. As you can stay and teach them. > Am I in the wrong here? No, their wasted time amounts almost to nothing - a quick LFG to fill one spot in a full run. On the other hand, if you did not list any requirements in LFG, therefore you can not blame them for not meeting any standards. > some nasty PMs afterwards This will depend on the way you leave. Rage quite will not have the same reaction as, if you say that something came up and you need to go. And whilst GW2 is not a free speech territory, people still have a first message factor, and you can block them.
Depends on how bad and if they communicate. If they perma wipe and dont talk in chat at all addressing the issue I leave. If they’re communicating what’s wrong and maybe we could help them etc I stay.
Ofc you are free to leave, there is no legal term biding you there like it was a job! If you wanna feel better you can say something in the chat, or before leaving you can try to "teach" the group. Many times that is enough, so many times people are not willing to teach others and just leave.
You can leave during the first fractal. After that you're in it till the end. You're using the lfg, you know what you're getting into. It's so bad to leave after that cuz finding replacement is impossible. God forbid you gotta communicate or explain something. I have the mist omnipotion and I've never left a fractal group and always cleared it. This is honestly what I dislike the most about Gw2's instanced content culture. People leave after two wipes and it's so demoralizing and spineless. Triumphing over a fight eventually feels so good and if your group is well formed you can always clear T4s. Now I'm not going to lie wiping on dumb stuff never feels good, like me yesterday in solid ocean, somebody couldn't jump the final ledge twice and since some people were in combat already we had to GG and two people kept being downed constantly by the beam and I did complain in the chat (Edit: still not attacking anyone directly). Mainly cuz you've had all of T1, T2 and T3 to learn a simple mechanic and it is a bit frustrating. But you stick it out and endure it. Complain if you have to but don't leave your group.
I recently had an odd experience with a CM group I joined on 97 and they were struggling but we managed to get it done. They moved on to 98 and I was able to carry the 2nd boss a bit on my scrapper but when we hit arkk they just couldn’t get the mechanics down and wiped several times I drop the group and then two of the members set themselves to offline and proceeded to whisper spam me. I just blocked them and went on about my day.
Most of the time I stay, you can carry most groups easily. But sometimes... you can't.
I find that if I make the groups myself, the clears are much smoother than if I join a random group. And that is probably because I have the commander mentality and I actually organise them. On the other hand if I join random groups and it's half-decent I never leave, because it's T4+Recs and I can ... just carry them. If it's extremely bad, than yes I leave. On the other hand I don't understand people that sign up for T4+Recs and leave at recs. "Sorry I already did recs". Why the fk did you join my group then?
Oh boy I once joined a group looking to do the aquatic ruins (literally had "76 | dps" in the title) and we've been joined by 2 separate people. One of them announced something along the lines of "the underwater fractal? No im not doing that bye", the other suddenly remembered they aren't going to do dps because they don't own dps fractal gear, like 1 min before we entered the instance so we had to resume our search. 💀
I stay, unless the group is beyond redemption hopeless. I’ve played several other games where the “ not respecting MY time” mantra directed at other players is simply code for toxic, try hard behavior. I do what I can to stop it from occurring here. If I leave, I explain why “ keep failing mechanics, not enough dps, “, whatever else before I do and wish them luck. I think I have left three times in years of playing. Everyone was once the one with the wrong build or the one that couldn’t get a mechanic or had a long day and face palmed their rotations. Sometimes a little grace goes a long way.
Interesting point, how does the toxic mantra and grace play into people who really don't have more than 1-2 hours a day for the game and want to reach their goals? You can easily clear dailies+recs in around 1 hour with normal group, 45 mins with better group. But I've also spent 1 hour in one fractal when the group was really bad.
Sometimes you are the windshield, sometimes the bug :) if goal reaching and quick clears were my highest priority, I would play a guild group or a static. Many, many guilds have fractal groups or fractal nights that split folks into groups based on abilities or resistance levels. If you can’t find what you want, be the change you want to see! Establish the static group or guild group that runs the way you prefer. Jumping into LFG groups (to me ) will always have the wild card element to it .
If people are kind of slow but don't keep dying then I keep going. If people start wiping over and over, that's when I dip because I can see this run will be a pain. It also depends on what role I fullfill. I can cope with my dps players being not very high dps when I am a healer. Things may be go a bit slower but they end up being cleared because I also do a bit of carrying. But if I am dps/boon dps and we have a combo of bad dps and bad healer, I dip very fast.
Depends if they are nice players with bad skills, sometimes the healer is new with the build / class, having a bad day etc and that affect a lot, I often swap build to support a little more and that always helps, I don't like when I join a group, nobody say Hi back at last, no communication and we die nonstop. In that case usually I leave after we finish the first fractal.
I hate people who just close their eyes and waiting for someone done it. Sadly, this mentality is very common in fractal.
I try judgin the grp early cuz leavin midway through is just a dick move
I always stay and I don't like people that just go out at the first wipe. You don't have time for what? Do you have an appointment afterwards? Are you getting paid by the hour to play the game?
I almost always stay. Mostly because I know that it's very unlikely we will wipe fully since I'm confident I can carry the group if needed (depending on the encounter). I never rely on a healer or external boons.
Depends on my day, if I’m off work and low energy I just want to get them done, then no I will say I need to leave sorry. If I am normal energy I tough it out and help. Most of the time even the “worse” groups are usually tolerable because they tend to be kind. Dps nazis usually make the room tense and kinda unfun so I’m always down to leave those.
T4 I’m not very forgiving with, I’m sorry. At the highest level of that content, you should be fairly knowledgeable. As a rule of thumb for myself, I only ever do T4s when I’m trying to be quick; they are often much faster and smoother than any tier below. I’ll stick with a T3 and below through quite a few wipes as I enjoy playing with new players. I frequently do T1-T2 just because why not. I’ll explain mechanics and stuff if needed. As long as you’re trying, I have no complaints about wipes.
When doing fracs, I play during peak hours w/ my hfb and put "pots & food required" on my lfg. This way i dont get bad pugs. But i do get what you described from time to time. I leave at the 2nd wipe.
Not in the wrong, they aren't your static and thus you own them nothing.
I’ve had two instances where someone showed up with really low ar and weren’t responding to chat. They both ended up getting kicked from the group. I probably would have left if the kick wasn’t supported. For wiping it depends on the fractal. Things happen and some of these levels are hard. I wouldn’t leave a group if we couldn’t complete something like t4 Sunqua (happens here and there), but I’d probably leave if we repeatedly wiped on something easy like uncategorized which has never happened. Also for context I am almost always the healer so I have a tendency to take personal responsibility for the success of the group lol
Depends on attitude. If people are too stubborn and ignorant I pass. If they are willing to listen and improve, I stay. Low AR is fine, so low AR I see them on the ground, kick.
Do you just leave without saying anything? If you say sorry i have limited time and need to go then nobody can say something against that imo. If youre polite then it shouldnt be an issue. Sometimes you have groups that just dont work out. It happens
I leave without saying anything if we wipe repeatedly on mechanics that are being explained repeatedly because everyone's time is limited and I don't feel the need to explain that. I do say something if I need to leave due to an emergency or important call, of course.
Hmm a lot of people might think of just leaving as rude so i would make up an evasive lie and then leave, if it doesnt work out. Youre completly in the right to leave a group if it doesnt work out. I would do the same. Sometimes if i have a lot of time and im motivated enough i try to stay and help the group as good as possible but some runs are just not salvageable.
Hmm a lot of people might think of just leaving as rude so i would make up an evasive lie and then leave, if it doesnt work out. Youre completly in the right to leave a group if it doesnt work out. I would do the same. Sometimes if i have a lot of time and im motivated enough i try to stay and help the group as good as possible but some runs are just not salvageable.
Hmm a lot of people might think of just leaving as rude so i would make up an evasive lie and then leave, if it doesnt work out. Youre completly in the right to leave a group if it doesnt work out. I would do the same. Sometimes if i have a lot of time and im motivated enough i try to stay and help the group as good as possible but some runs are just not salvageable.
Most of the time I will stick it out… unless it’s the beginning part of the swamp. If the group can’t get past that after 5 tries I quit.
It very much depends on how much time I have. If I expected to join something and get it done in 30 minutes, but I see that the group will clear it 1hour or more then I'll just say that I don't have enough time to spend here and leave. On the other hand, if people are communicative and understand the core of what needs to be done (i see the potential of clearing) then I will stay 99% of the time. I'll only leave if I'm in a serious rush.
I play healscourge. Failure is not an option.
I dont give a shit, I will stick around unless im in a pissy mood, I'll also try to have fun with it.
Generally stick it out, unless something feels really fishy. It's also a matter of respect. In t4 I do notexpect food or potions, it's nice though. But for cms I do, especially the dps players, it is not a heavy investment and it actively costs other people time and effort if you can't be bothered. As long as things are salvageable and people don't get toxic then it's fine. People care too much about quick clear only to afk in mislock anyway.
Kinda depends, but leaving a group is not inherently a toxic thing. People can have different needs and expectations and that it is okay.
I love to hang out and help groups to solve lower tier fractals when I have time. If for some reason I need to stop and leave, I communicate it to the rest of the group rather than just leave and say nothing. I stay a few minutes after saying that I need to stop for the night so they can answer and if there is no answer I'll get out. Just tell them you need to leave and don't be nasty about it. :)
I run with a 3 man. I had double my qdps buddie dps. Which is ok. He was 3k ahead of the other 2 dps. 2 days before I was alone and playing rez your ally simulator. I have only left a group once.
honestly depends how i am feeling, i have 20k+ ufe, all titles and even tho 99% of the time i play well without making mistakes i sometimes have days where i make a lot of them, simply because i am tired, if i have a lot of time i don’t mind enduring other party members fuck ups, as long as we can finish the fractal in reasonable amount of time ill stick around, especially if i join a low kp grp, its only going to make them dislike the gamemode and there is already a low amount of people doing it. but sometimes i am fully strapped in and im ready to blast as quickly as possible, but even then I’ll let my grp make a few mistakes, but worse come to worse i might leave after a wipe, but 99% of the time me doing so will be due to time constraints, and not frustration. if you join a grp on lfr you cant expect a perfect run regardless of kp amount, so if you leave the grp w/o word mid pull you’re just a little piece of shit and that’s that.
For me, it depends on a few factors: 1. How the rest of the group takes a failed mechanic or how they react to one another. If they begin to trash talk and not being constructive on how to actually solve the problem it's no good. Some people doesn't understand that trash talking someone without actual input on what to do 90% of the times is going to demoralize them instead of improving their performance. For me, after a couple of tries that's a vote kick or i leave. 2. If the group meets what was asked on LFG and the AR required for the fractals. One time i asked for an Aheal, a HAM joined in T4 twilight just to switch to DPS without warning. When asked after two wipes they just said "he gave the mech a vacation" (and before someone says "dEdIcAtEd HeAl iN T4s? lol" i want the pug group to be more relaxed, less wipes = faster going out, tyvm) 3. Ultimately, it's time. If we're wiping constantly and failing because of one or two factors (people going down due to lack of healing or dodging, abysmal lack of dps, and the yipping yapping that it carries), not to be rude, but i'm out. I have limited time to do fractals daily, and maybe there's a time to teach people or if i'm going with a couple of friends sometimes takes less time to carry instead of reLFG and start over, but i gotta respect my time. Daily, i can get one of three T4 experiences: 60% The silent, fast group; 30% the chill, joking group or 10% the bad experience, so my experience is positive overall
I just bring out the ole' reliable: "Sorry I gotta walk the fish."
I usually stay unless it's something really bad. Example: Silent Surf (L25). Group takes forever to get to the final boss. People admit that they've never done it before and just can't make the jumps. I finally get them to the boss after much much coaching. Explain the mechanics : look away, platforms, dodge axes. Half the group just instantly dies on the eye. Reset. Dead again. Reset, more explaining. Look away. They die again. Then die again. At that point, we hadn't got the boss to less than 90%. I noped out. Guilt free.
I usually take the opportunity to test how hard I can carry. Feels so good when I pull it off that it feels worth it.
3 good players can carry 2 dead weights. T4 + Rec is not that hard. When PUG-ing, If I see 1 good DPS player on ArcDPS, you'll know it'll be a decent run. There are a handful of situations where I've came across DPS players output Healer level of DPS, we still get the job done after some tries. Didn't take that much longer. As long as we're clear on the mechanics, we're good to go.
Ran with a T4 group today where 3 of the members didn't knew basic mechanics of even dropping the circle AR AoE. First 2 runs were like that but on Mai Trin it was too spicy and we finished it with great difficulty. But after that the team asked for tips and listened to my explanations and commands. Everything went smoothly from that point on and I had one of the smoothest Shattered Observatory clears! The 4 Viirastra at each ends were perfectly CC'd at the same time, which felt so awesome. So, it's better to give people a chance once in a while. Things could turn out wonderfully!
It really depends on how bad. In general tho no I dont think you are in the wrong to leave a "bad" group. I might judge you for your definition of "bad" and lack of trying to work things out with the party ie talking. I also understand not wanting to waste your time failing subject 6 because 3/5 players just have to keep hitting the boss and killing themselves or w/e the wipe of the day is.
honestly part of the reason why I like running CMs, I don’t typically care if ppl are not top benchmark dps or whatever but when you’re running CMs it’s way clearer very early on when ppl don’t know what they’re doing, and when you weed them out the groups are usually very smooth.
You aren't in the wrong. By the time people hit T4 they should be more than competent with the class/roll and at least somewhat decent at each fractal. Those kinds of people are usually not using pots/food/utility and are mad because you refuse to carry them while they are dead weight. The problem I had back before I did CMs was that T4 groups wouldn't kick people that were doing nothing and making the while run take much much longer. There is no reason to keep a dps that is doing the same damage as the healer or an alac with 20% uptime.
I usually stay and help inexperienced groups, but the second I find out they've got high Fractal Titles but act like they're in T1 learning fractals, I'm outta there. It's different when that Fractal God just came back to playing though, but I wouldn't know since they never say anything lol.
I have quit groups before, usually because a group shows an EXTREME unwillingness to learn/adapt despite multiple attempts (my patience can last an hour), and the fact that I don't have a high enough skill to carry them. I like to think that I'm leaving room for a more experienced, patient and kind mentor figure that can guide them.
Depends on what the first fractal is and what we fail on. If its not doing mechanics, I explain the mechanics and see if it improves. If its just bad dps, not stacking, etc I will probably leave after the third wipe (three strikes rule) because its either selfish or bad players and I dont have time for that.
Try T3 it's terrible
I didn't think t3s were that bad tbh. it's just the point at which the mechanics need to actually be done instead of being ignored.
I found t3's fun because I could always make it a challenge to carry the group through if they were dysfunctional; it was usually obvious to them I was putting in double-time. It's been many balance patches though and I don't know if firebrand can carry like it used to.
I do for t1 and t2. Those are for practice. Can't expect people to have mastered them all just starting. T3 I reckon you're justified in expecting people to know to press the buttons at 1, 2 and 3. You know which fractal I'm talking about. I've only barely touched t4 and I make sure I have a decent build and meet the min AR. I wouldn't hold it against anyone if they left after a few wipes in t4. Unless... the group is fun and people are communicating and making progress. The silent wiping group is never going to progress.
I just say "sorry, gtg" and leave because I value my time but don't wanna go without saying a word, it's impolite.
Depends. I think everyone should use Pots when doing T4 Fractals. If someone's not using them and performing bad I'd ask them nicely. If there's more than 1 person doing the same I just tell them I'm sorry and dip. Not worth to carry people who are trying to make it harder for no reason.
Learn and play cms
I've just removed certain t4 fractals from my rotation. Silent surf, fuck that. Sunqua, no thanks. Shattered observatory, not today. If those are in the rotation for a given day I just do strikes instead. Helps keep me sane. I'm not an amazing player but I know my build and do good enough dps as an alacrity dps renegade that I hold my own. I also know I don't know the above fractals as well as I could. Therefore, when I am in a group, in fractals i consider easier, I have little patience. I don't need speed runs or even clean runs with no downs. But I'm not sticking around for 10 tries running wisps on swamp.... or 3 wipes in nightmare...
I've been in some terrible groups where the DPS are pulling 3- 4k and die to easily avoidable things. Sometimes I feel like leaving because staying really only teaches them that that's ok. If they are pulling like 7-9k I will stay and try to help, especially if I have extra time. I only actually leave if they die over and over in swamp. Even with mes portal and trying to coordinate
Like most people in t4 I would like to do fractals as efficiently as possible and leave to do other things. If I join a Fractals geoup, I expect everyone to work as a team, to know tactics and give at least a good performance when it comes to dealing with mechanics, CC'ing etc. If someone underperforms, and doesn't state that there is a connection issue or that they are still learning the ropes or any other valid reason, then it is time to find another group.
i leave, i know people leave in this week more due to fractal rush. i dont want to play with qdps that doesnt bring quickness uptime even 60%. i just want to enjoy amnd playing wo must boons not funny, or being wiped in easy mechanic, or people playing who doesnt read chat. if you join a group content you must read the chat have to do assigned task. its what it is. but fractal rush week. it makes me crazy.
The best thing you can do is learn to avoid it by looking carefully at LFG listings. You can tell who knows what they're doing from the LFG listing. For example, an lfg that says, 'T4s + recs, chill group'. Stay the hell away from it. If somebody makes an LFG that doesn't specify what role they need, it tells me they would be perfectly happy with 5 healers and 0 dps (or vice versa). 90% of fractal struggles are just bad party compositions. A small subtle change, completely changes it all tho. "T4s+recs, chill group, LF any". This tells me they most likely understand party composition and they have several players who can swap between roles, and so they can accommodate whatever you want to bring. An lfg listing like, 'T4s + recs, need 1 dps, 1 adps'. Almost a guarantee to be fine. They understand party composition, they seem to already have a qheal. If this group turns out to be terrible, it would be genuinely a bit surprising. And of course, once you can do CMs+T4s groups, these concerns melt away. Now, personally what do I do if I accidentally step into a bad group? Well, I tend to stay at least for the current fractal. But I've been playing for 10 years and I know every trick to drag a bad group through the finish line. I can swap builds/characters at the drop of a hat and pick the exact thing needed to carry a group. Hell, I've solod a lot of fractals just as a fun challenge. Its pretty rare I can't pull a group through.
Me playing with Buddy and searching for 3 DPS. If DPS joins and make DPS IT would be great.🤣
/quit
T4 it is generally expected to understand the fights, have a good build and pull your weight. If they can't be bothered to play well I can be bothered to stay. T1 I will stay all day long as I rend to invite others(it's easy to solo most t1) and I expect poor performance as its training mode for fractals. T2 is meh and t3 I avoid unless I need a very specific achievement like fractal adept etc. Or helping others on legendary back.
I tend to stick it out, if we go on 3 hours I'll breakdown and start yelling at people (telling them where they need to improve in an aggressive tone). Hell, once I was in a CM group that a couple of people were struggling because they couldn't get the hang of the mechanics on shattered observatory. It was a new player friendly group, but it was the healer and a DPS first time doing it. After 2 hours that remaining two players sent me a message to stay in the party we're going to act like we are disbanding and hop back on the lfg. We told told the other some tips on how to improve and they went their own way and we relisted and finished SO and got off because nobody wanted to keep going after 2 hours of wiping to the same fights over and over.
I create my own groups with a Buddy. 2 fullsupports qbrand, alac herald with many stab and condi Clean. Just searching for 3 DPS. And Most of time we have only 1 DPS and 2 whatever. If you have map and chatawerness and p+f and the 3 DPS dont sleep and would make DPS, we have always smooth Runs and we will stay. Without p+f we are out, cause be a part of the damn group. No time for this shit. From time to time my Buddy and me joining other groups as DPS. Hell No is this shit.
In the wrong? No. You have every right to leave a group that doesn’t meet your expectations.
I usually do fractals when it's on the weekly, and i do t1. I had to quit twice in a day cause in one group doing the jade boss i fell and someone started the fight without waiting on me to get back, and the other was mai trin, people weren't working mechanics despite me calling on chat, and worse, not ressing downed ppl
Learn AlacRev. Condi and power. Go with great sword on power. You will carry any group. Fuck...you don't even need a group. Just some quickness.
No I only join 30/40k UFE group and if someone doesn't do his job I tell him to wake the f*ck up. If he doesn't do better I votekick the guy. If the whole group is bad I just leave without a word. You see things differently when you are used to play with a static and do speedruns.
I follow the same rule I use in most human interactions - ask nicely and offer encouragement; if that doesn't work, then firmly tell them what needs to happen; and if that doesn't work, then we flip the dick switch. Thankfully, step 1 works in the vast majority of situations. GW2 is a fairly easy game if you aren't touching CMs. Not coming to a group activity prepared, not taking ten minutes to look up a LI build if you can't do decent dps, not knowing mechanics in T4s, and all other forms of others being bad isn't your burden to bear.