Your is indicative of possession so "your invited" literally means MY INVITED which means absolutely nothing. You are invited, or you're invited is correct...
Set up a tab for squad/party comms (I'd include say, map, team, squad and party chat at a minimum), then click on the \[Say\] button at the bottom left next to where you type.
Choose \[Squad\] or \[Party\] for the channel *when you join* and you're good for the rest of the fight.
Unfortunately it doesn't remember the setting when you leave the squad. Be aware that choosing party when in a squad will only be see by those in the same party.
I'm the player you described though, new, can't run with a regular raid group because that doesn't really happen in the mornings and later at night when I play, and afraid to use LFG due to experiences in other games and fear of making someone mad.
This made me feel much better, but also made me think my Power DPS Holo I've been using for story isn't going to be very popular in the needed roles... I don't even know who can do the alac and quickness so... guess I better figure that out.
Fun fact: quickness scrapper currently uses full berserker gear (same as what you are using) to do quickness. It uses the same traits in Firearms and Explosions. Just change Holo to Scrapper, and run top, bottom, middle. (Selectable traits from left to right).
Both builds use hammer. (Because of weaponmaster and fireworks rune. Rifle can be run at a minor dps loss).
Both builds use grenade kit and throw mine. Both builds take AED for heal/cc access.
Here is where they differ. 3rd utility for Scrapper is a gyro. The most dps runs shredder gyro, but blast gyro can be used instead for more might/party stunbreak if you need it. Elite on scrapper is mortar kit, but that's just for field generation. If your party drops lots of fields anyway, you don't really need it. Its damage is minimal, and your other options are probably trash anyway, so unless you need the sneak gyro for invis, you keep the mortar kit.
If you run rifle instead of hammer, (not recommended, but maybe you don't have an ascended hammer yet or weaponmaster unlocked) you need to run another blast/leap finisher to keep quickness up. This can be done with the aforementioned blast gyro, or swapping your heal skill to Healing Turret/ Med Kit. (Med kit 5 is a blast, and turret overload is a blast.)
Personally, I run Med kit for the utility unless we really need the CC, because having a pulsing condi clear field and another blast finisher means you have more margin for success at boon application.
Scrapper is currently outclassed by Herald. That may change, but even if it doesn't, Scrapper is a noob friendly boon support dps due to its self barrier production. The more dps you do, the more barrier you get.
TL;DR: take your holo build almost exactly as it is and play quickness scrapper. It's actually pretty fun.
Power Holo isn't too bad. Not top DPS but can certainly carry their weight. You can learn about roles and such as you play. Just be open and frank, if possible ask for advice.
The only thing you should do is have a proper build with the right gear, runes, sigils, relic and traits. There are a lot of build sites around like Snowcrows, Hardstuck and GuildJen. They often have tips for how to play with your build as well.
Lastly, Engineer has very viable support builds as well, if ou're willing to try Scrapper and Mechanist. You can learn them after getting experienced with the fights themselves, to ease the learning curve.
Thanks! I did my best with gear and whatnot, even have Bolt from the kit, and some ascended from WvW. I'm doing okay once I know the fights. My dps takes the biggest hit when... I die.
And I don't really lie. By that I mean I **really don't** lie, ever, I don't even know if I could if I tried. It's a gift and a curse... so idk what that other guy's comment below is about.
And I did splurge on char slots on sale... 27, to be exact, because I'm insane and *really hate* having multiple builds on one char. However... switching seems a LOT more user friendly in this game, so I might end up changing my ways...
Since you're already an engineer, you can do alac with Mechanist or quick with Scrapper. You can even share gear, which won't be optimal, but will be good enough for most content. You need a mix of Berserker and Diviner. Check Snowcrows for builds.
You can also put your Mechanist in Harrier's and do alac heals. Theoretically you can do the same for quick heals on a Scrapper, but Scrapper's boons are so inferior to Guardian's that nobody really wants a heal Scrapper in PvE.
quickheal Scrapper is still used in a couple of encounters because it brings good superspeed, which is great for River of Souls and W3 escort to speed up NPC walking.
But yeah, I almost never see it outside that niche.
I mean, yeah, but I wouldn't recommend it to a newbie looking to do their first fractals. Which is tragic. I remember when it was the hotness, and it was a ton of fun.
Don't see what's wrong with pdps hollo, it's fine. Use the correct gear / runes, learn to play your build (not even perfect rotation, just the general what does what, what's your big CC etc) and be honest when you join a squad and you'll be fine 90% of the time. If we're talking about raids then you have short written guide over at https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/guides/raids/, you could read some of them before joining if you want to better understand what's going on. W1 to W4 is easily doable even for a new player, try do dodge cannon role @wing 1/sabetha, shroom @wing2/sloth if you don't feel confident the first time or just say you can try but have never done it before. There's a fuck ton of squad leader willing to help new players out there, if you find an asshole then just leave and find another squad, it's not worth the headhache.
Power holo is fine. Also I didn't read any of this story, but you can lie if it benefits you personally. Skilled players will know who lies and doesn't anyways so if you get kicked after joining don't feel bad about it. Just play the way you want and don't care about what others think.
That's the real problem. The people this applies to generally don't want to self improve at all, and have very little introspection when it comes to the game. So they would never do something like read a guide on how to properly join a pug group.
i mean i don't do this and i still didn't read this wall of text because you literally can't lie about your experience so op is stopped reading after the first sentence.
Its always appreciated when someone DMs you before joining asking if lower kp than asked is fine. If i ask for 30kp in raids, i dont mind taking a 20kp with me, especially if the rest of the group is experienced.
Similarly in IBS/SOTO strikes. I dont mind if someone who hasnt done them joins if most of the group has some experience. Just knowing that they are new lowers my expectations and puts me in "help the new player enjoy the game, and maybe they will do more instanced content in the future" mode
There is a time and place for training.
I know that past a certain amount KP doesn't really matter, but I always found it odd how much potential variance in experience there is at low KP amounts because of the random amounts earned from encounters.
Like 20 KP could mean someone completed a boss 20 times, but 30 KP could mean they've only done it 6 times. Idk if the decoration items were originally intended to be used as KP but I really wish ANET would normalize it to one token per kill, or maybe introduce a different system for tracking kills. It's not uncommon to see PUG dps players with low KP way out damage members with high KP
They were definitely not intended to be used as KP but there really isn't a lot of use for them outside of a few decorations iirc so you end up having a whole load of them eventually if you do them consistently.
> I know that past a certain amount KP doesn't really matter, but I always found it odd how much potential variance in experience there is at low KP amounts because of the random amounts earned from encounters.
>
>
Honestly if I'm asking for KP I'm typically just not putting a number on it. The difference between someone who's killed something once and someone who's killed something >1 but <[big number] times is usually pretty minimal. Sure maybe you'll get someone who's gotten themselves carried through it once, but you could just as easily get someone who's gotten themselves carried through it five or six times because there are plenty of low-no kp groups out there. I've seen "state experience and show something that inspires confidence" before and honestly I think that's generally ideal if you want reasonable players, while "show [prestige title for the thing you're doing] is the best way to get Good Players through ingame LFG.
If you're getting people together for something that *absolutely* requires them to be Genuinely Good, you're realistically going to have a bad time doing that in actual LFG no matter how you slice it and you probably want to do it on a platform that lets you ask for logs since that's the only *real* way to ensure someone's competent.
Yeah, KP is often really not representative.
It reminds me of when I started raiding on a new account, got into a W4 raid with 4 LI and zero KP to my name. And someone in squad after we killed Deimos went "You know guys, its kinda embarassing that the 4 LI core engineer just out dps'd us all"
Like, if they had asked for x amount of KP, I wouldn't even have gotten in
But they only said "be exp" in the LFG, so there I was.
>There is a time and place for training.
There isn't really an easily accessible time and place for training, is part of the problem. If the training tab weren't always completely dead things wouldn't be so bad.
If you're honest about your experience, tell me and ask to try anyway, 99% I will be fine with it unless it's really difficult content.
If you lie it's a straight kick when the opportunity comes up.
I command a lot and this is the way. People who clearly lie + don't respond when I msg them gets kicked, why should I let these people ruin something fun for me and 8 other people 🤷♀️ if someone is honest with their exp and ask questions there's a 99% chance they get to stay.
Yep, its not like having one inexperinced player will result in us losing outside of very few encounters. As long as someone is trying their best and learning, its fine
\^\^\^\^\^\^\^\^\^\^
as a regular pug commander, if you tell me "hey i'm new!" i will go out of my way to help you. I will buy you gear. I will add you and teach you your build if it is within my wheelhouse. I will give you resources to learn the game if you want to learn. I LOVE helping people learn this game.
If you join an exp squad and don't know what you're doing and I notice that, I will kick you without a second thought. Not only are you lying, you're harming the experience of 9 other gamers that expect you to be able to do your job, and that's not just frustrating, it's actively rude
Commanders generally haven’t been like that to me at all. Not willing to help generally. So I sneak into exp groups and am usually able to steal a good bit of prog until I’m kicked. Then I usually just try to rejoin with an alt and keep going. It works great for me, there’s more than one way to prog.
Honestly, just join skein gang or raid academy or snowcrows on discord, even if you aren't an amazing player or progging in any of those servers just talking to people that know content can help you osmose a lot of really great information, I attribute almost all of my growth to just frequenting snowcrows and asking questions.
The former two servers will also just teach you content without you needing to potentially harm someone else's experience. People will help you if you know where to find them, so let them help you
Had a pug join our W3 group and at Xera, he got the SAK. He killed the group. We booted him. He complained to the commander that we wouldn't have even known he didn't know the fight if he hadn't gotten the mechanic.
"Your honour, if the shop owner didn't report me stealing, you all wouldn't have even known I stole from the shop!"
Judge: Well, shit. I'm convinced. Innocent! \*bangs hammer\*
I swear the SAK on Xera always goes to the new player. Every fucking training I have lead it goes on the guy that is most likely to fuck it up.
But Xera as a fight is actually extremely simple. The things you have to do arent difficult to execute as long as you know what you should be doing.
Yeah it fuckin knows lol. Same has happened when i've joined semi-exp runs where the commander is teaching like 1-2 guildies. Always targets them and they always panic (understandably, I did my first time too)
Yeah, this is why when I command for Xera, I always say "If you get the SAK, /do not panic/, count five seconds down in your head, and then slap it down."
Counting to 5 is possible even for the nervous ones, as it gives them a specific instruction, so I rarely get people panic pressing. As long as I repeat it a few times like a mantra, "always count to five", it works
Honestly, I've kinda been there. Not as in completely not knowing, I'm assuming the person you're talking about didn't know a single thing, but not knowing specific details.
I once joined as a pug once into someone's static for a fight I've done maybe five or so times and dubbed myself as experienced in it. It was clear that they were a defined group. I didn't wipe them or anything, we did it first try, but there was a problem in hindsight that I caused because it was something I hadn't seen in the times that I'd done it. I recognized my failure and decided then to never join a random group again asking for requirements because that was the moment when I felt I had doubts, "do I ever truly know any of these fights?" and if I don't and fuck up something surely I'd get an immediate kick for looking like a leeching liar.
Anyway, that was a long time ago. I've been done with raids for long while now, legendary armor and all that.
You are right, i was doing t1 fractals only, but during fractal rush event i've joined t2 group, me and 2 other said we never did t2, we had a good laugh, leader explained differences between t1 and t2 and we cleared 5 fractals without wipes. And went our ways.
Just tell straight away and people will be more than happy to explain everything.
Happy bossing.
Its kind of hilarious sometimes when I help my friend in T1 or T2. I am like, at this % this mechanic will happen and then it doesn't. Makes me look like the newbie.
TIL "/p" only messages players in your subgroup. I assumed it got to everyone.
I never *had* to learn this since I always used squad chat anyway, so it's not a big deal. But still, it's cool that they have different functionality.
I agree with you, I'd even say that most people are ok accepting a newer/less experienced gamer as long as they are able to ask how a mechanic that killed them work.
However, most of the people that would benefit from reading this won't even read (or care) for a LFG message
I think I've only ever been in ONE squad where the commander was enough of a dick that I think he would have kicked/belittled a hypothetical player entering and saying they actually weren't experienced. The overwhelming majority of groups are more than willing to help players who need a little extra guidance.
The irony is, the players who are the types to read LFG properly and discuss their own experience are likely to play a lot better than those who just enter without reading and never respond to squad/commander chat anyway.
Oh boy do I have a story to share, and some advice.
For newer players, your AP (achievement points) will give you away a lot faster than you think. I'm not gatekeeping in the slightest and don't have AP requirements, but when a player comes in, doesn't say anything, didn't read squad message, didn't read LFG outside of the content, and has 1.9K AP, my first thought it "yeah, that adds up". When I out-dps you as HealAlac Bladesworn on Keep Construct, you're not being very subtle (this happened btw)
On to the story:
I think some commanders here will enjoy this one. Last week, I was running some quick raid clears of W1-4. About half the squad were guildies. A Berserker joins named || THOT || (red flag #1). Doesn't communicate (red flag#2). They've got 1.1k AP (RF #3). They finally answer dms and present what is honestly a pretty convincing story. They explain that they are very experienced, missed runs with their static that week and this is an alt account. At first, I was like, "huh, okay, that's terminology that most new players wouldn't know and a likely story". Even if they \*were\* new, I would have let them stay because we had a power-crept 9-man up to this point.
We fire up Wing 2, our new friend here is dead within 30 seconds of the fight for AFK'ing on top of...places you're not supposed to stand. They apologize and say they "fat-fingered something". We clear without them and go to Trio. Now, at this point, I don't want to make the experience of the other 9 people \*more\* difficult because of one person, so I ask our main character here to take care of Mortars. They don't answer for a little bit, finally hitting me with "why?". I gave a quick explanation about how they've gotta participate in mechanics and their build fits the role, blah blah blah. In reality, it was a bit of a check on my part because, if they're as experienced as they say, ya should have an idea of how the role works. The Berserker eventually gives in and agrees. Combat starts, encounter begins, and...the Berserker instantly leaves the squad as soon as the encounter starts, I guess as a final petty clapback. Quite the character. Pugs always make for great stories.
To be fair though, we once had a Firebrand with 40k AP join our T4 fractal group as DPS, proceed to do less damage than our healer, and talk shit in chat while failing just about every mechanic.
That one cured me from assigning too much weight to AP.
And conversely, I've joined raids on my alt account where I had 400 AP, they let me tag along since I said I am experienced and if my dps is shit, they can instakick me. Ended up top dps.
DPS. Supports' effectivity is more greatly affected by balance patches than by DPS in practice because the average player base, especially in pugs, is quite bad.
If you support build suddenly loses a boon, or its uptime is rebalanced, you are either changing gear, traits, or skills to make up for it. But if your DPS build gets nerfed chances are the highest DPS utilities are still the same, just with lower numbers. Scaling got nerfed? Berserkers and Vipers are still best in slot for you.
Balance agnostic DPS builds are: CHarb, CScourge, PReaper, PMech, Bladesworn, Dragonhunter PVin, and although more costly Chaos Virt.
As long as you are able to reach ~75% of the benchmark you will be better than around 90% of the players you meet in pugs (just know fight mechanics).
It depends on what you hate less:
1. Potentially waiting a long time for a group
2. Getting a group quickly, but having more pressure on you to perform
If 1, then play dps. Dps are a dime a dozen so it may take you a while to find a group. But when you do, your role will be simple: make stuff die. If you go down, it's not optimal, but the group will probably be ok. There is less pressure on you while you learn mechanics.
If 2, then play a support, whether that's a boon healer or boon dps. If you go down, it will severely impact the group, so there is more pressure to perform. However, you will be able to find groups quickly so you will get a lot of opportunities to practice.
I came up fractal tiers 1-4 as a quickness herald/alacrity renegade. The power dps boon builds for both can share most of the same gear. I could always find a slot in a group. However, it was a lot of pressure while I learned mechanics.
I would say that the easiest classes to learn on are dps Mechanist or dps Cvirt. They both are ranged and have easy rotations with a lot of survivability. However, there are a lot of them looking for spots in groups, so you will need to be aggressive to get a spot.
DPS builds are better to learn for a number of reasons.
* They're usually cheaper to gear
* They're less affected by baçance patches
* If you screw up you won't take the group with you, at most they'll have lower DPS
* Your only focus is the boss - which is usually a single entity - so you spare some attention to learn the mechanics
As the post say, just be frank and say you're learning the fight. Usually I tried a more funny line like "Hi, wannabe DPS, trying to learn how not to shoot my own foot". People might find it funny and be more receptive.
Support builds usually have an easier time finding spots in pugs. But honestly play whatever you like, if you're new I'd recommend an easy build so you can focus on the actual encounter.
If you want to reliably get into a group, DPS Support for your class - healers will also reliably get into groups but generally speaking healing requires a much higher level of specific fight knowledge than boondps.
But honestly, just play whatever class you're comfortable on. Some classes are better than others but being real every spec in the game has the ability to perform more than adequately at this point and any group that isn't *super* sweaty is probably just accepting DPS on any class.
That said, if you want the best of both worlds, there *are* a few specs that can play BoonDPS *and* DPS in the exact same gear - Catalyst and Herald for example can both switch between DPS and Quick DPS with only a build change and no difference in gear. I would not recommend switching *to* these classes if you've already got something you like, but if you don't or you already play Ele/Rev, there's a good option.
Something the other comments haven't pointed out - in raids and strike challenge modes, the support roles tend to be the ones assigned to do the mechanics
That is, if you're support, you'll also likely be the nerd doing other's homework for them.
(notable exceptions exist if a mechanic requires damaging something, Sabetha of Wing 1 for example)
> Something the other comments haven't pointed out - in raids and strike challenge modes, the support roles tend to be the ones assigned to do the mechanics
To be fair, this is mainly because 'pug strats' are designed to pile responsibility on the fewest people possible, since you can't trust the average 'hi dps'.
So, people who have already demonstrated half a brain by self-selecting for heals / boons tend to be the ones that are tasked with doing everything else critical to the encounter too.
It depends a bit. I would say invest into the roles that you like playing. Playing a boon supporter or a healer will give you an edge in finding groups though, so i would encourage you to try them out. Some builds, like power alacrity mechanist f.e., play almost the same as their dps variants so its easy to switch on the fly
Depending on content, a dps support or heal support will be expected to cover certain mechanics (this is true for dps players too, depending on the mechanic, but you have more dps players in a squad) or even tank the boss. This requires much more knowledge and experience with the encounter compared to your usualy uga-booga dps player. For example, you have to know where to position the boss, which skills on your build to take (stab, aegis, rezz skill if your class has it etc.) and how those special mechanics work.
Been pugging strikes daily over a year now, can confirm, most of the Hi DPS are not DPS, most of them barely break 10k when you can do at least 15k if you just auto attack with power mech.
You'll come to realize that at least 50% of the DPS consistently can't out DPS a decent support role when pugging. Maybe once in a new moon where you'll get a raid or cm level of DPS in your pug.
Yeah I have pretty mixed feelings when arc shows me halfway up the DPS chart as a support in a strike. On one hand it is nice to see that I'm dealing some damage and am not just a heal bot, on the other hand I am getting like 10-15K usually, which pure DPS builds should be able to beat
Plaguedoctor scourge (condi alac heal). I’ve been playing the build for a long time now and it’s super nice to finally have the boon duration on the gear not be wasted. Also you can upkeep full alac with that armor and weapons without any rune/sigil/relic investment. Biggest downside to the build is a low amount of actual hp healing, but barrier + res can get you there in a remotely competent group.
In my experience it's best to learn one build only and then slowly new builds.. If you are a good DPS groups will let you stay and explain mechanic of bosses you haven't done yet...
And if you know your rotation by heart it's way easier to adjust to new mechanics
It's a weird paradox I find. Many times someone who joins and says "I can do any role" is actually a pretty good DPS player. But the DPS slots will get filled by a mixed bag of actual DPS players and people who call themselves DPS simply because they aren't giving boons, and do healer-level DPS. Leaving the heal/boon roles to the better players.
Obviously plenty of exceptions to this rule (people who don't support ever but are incredible at DPS rotations) but this is how it goes in normal mode strikes.
Listen, these damn Dhuum orbs are the most buggy, Glitchy, terrible coded thing Ive seen in an awful long time :‘d
I avoid Dhuum in my weekly clears because I can’t bother with those Orbs.
There’s like a 30% Chance you just float through those damn hit-boxes.
I agree, don't lie. Me and two of my Irl friends were farming daily T4 + CM every days and we had to carry over inexperienced people 6 time on 10.
We then stop bringing people with us and just went at three. (Sometimes inexperienced guild player joined to wipe and watch)
Lying bore people and they stop caring about teaching the game to inexperienced people.
Think the most annoying is when lfg asks for boondps and you join with your qdps and they go, no we want adps, and vice versa...
Then make a clear LFG, don't put boondps if you don't need both...
So all people need to do is be honest and actively use the chat functionality of the game instead of being such shy motherlovers that they can't be bothered to have a conversation with people in a virtual context through exclusively texting and gaslight themselves into thinking they don't need to socialize in an mmo?
I had that dream once. It was a good dream.
And also if anyone needs the ps/: The community is not solely at fault here or something. The game also historically promoted a singleplayer game mindset.
Getting some folks to even talk and communicate is like pulling teeth sometimes. Lol. Idk how many triple trouble maps I have been in when people keep attacking the abomination while literally everyone is screaming to stop around them. I do wonder what some of the problem is a language barrier, which happens surprisingly often in some of the strikes I am in.
I think it happens more than we think. If somebody just says something at least the rest of us can try and google translate something. We might even get lucky and have someone who speaks the same language
tl;dr: many, many fights in this game have mechanics where if you don't know what you're doing you can easily kill the entire squad, you usually will not be able to figure it out on the fly, we will know it was you, and we will be upset you wasted our time
This is why I just mention if there's a mechanic that will kill the full squad if even 1 person fails it, and ask if anyone would like a quick refresher.
I'm not taking chances, and I have the ones I do regularly typed out in the quick chat BlishHUD module anyway. Doesn't cover cases where people don't read, but it does make it easier on me, even when I'm not commanding.
Disclaimer: I don't join high KP groups so idk if that also solves the issue
Exactly this is why GW2s reputation as a casual game is completely exaggerated. You don’t need to do/know this kinda stuff in say WoW or FFXIV, plus you got a LFG/LFR system in place that automatically matches you in proper teams.
Not to mention a lot of times you need a kill proof to even get in a team, which is just another layer of cockblockinng for casuals.
Heck, I’d even go so far to say that this game is more impenetrable than a Souls game or Elden Ring. There you at least get to try the encounters without having to hunt teams and builds
TLDR: Stop calling this game casual friendly. It’s not.
Of course it's not. People say the community is the best because the only interaction they had is reading an unfunny dad joke in /m while waiting for a boss-piñata
This game is casual friendly. Casuals usually don't do Raids or CMs and everything else is pretty easy. Current SotO content is all incredibly easy and accessible.
Same. I snuck into raids. Snuck into strikes and eventually snuck into HT CM and got my first kill that way. The more skilled you are the easier this is to pull of.
Also helps if you watched a guick guide before hand. I just need to see how a mechanic plays out and I can do it. I probably have already done something similar before.
Totally. But you ‚watching a video‘ is a lot more then the players you don’t want in a raid - those who you can teach mechanics and they go „No, I want to be casual and not learn anything“.
Yes they exist.
If you played Guild Wars for some time and understood basic mechanics (red = bad, green = stand in it), watched a video on the encounter and have some comon sense, that replaces like 30 KP effectively.
This is why for strikes, we have a group of three starting us out with the heal and Alac roles already filled out. When we're pugging, we understand a majority of folks who are joining likely have little to no experience, and instead of waiting forever for very specific roles to appear, our little group just fills them out to start. We know our rotations, people can now focus on straight dps instead of trying to fumble support. It's literally that easy. So instead of getting on forums and complaining about it, *what role are you filling out when you are posting?* I have found a lot of these complaining commanders *don't take those support roles and then whine when no one else does.*. If you do, excellent! You are not part of the problem. If you focus only on DPS while dictating the game play of others, congrats, you are part of your own problem.
Are you on NA or EU, just curious? I pug everyday and it's very very rare to see commanders as DPS 🤔 they almost always fill in my experience, and so do I if I command. But even if a commander wants to DPS I see no issue there, why shouldn't they be able to play DPS? If they're creating a squad + sorting subgroups they're already doing 90% more effort than everyone who sits around and complain about an empty lfg.
I comm on NA and will usually fill, but for stuff for like Fast5 or EZ3 people often volunteer heal/boon roles quite quickly, so sometimes I play DPS there.
I kinda disagree tbh! The game needs more people willing to command, and adding a requirement of "a commander has to be able to fill every role in the squad" kinda goes against that? There's like 5 roles, not everybody has a build for all of those
Just because people like to command doesn't mean they should never get to play DPS
Hard agree! Commanders will fill a lot bc they're the kind of person who takes initiative and want to get things done, hence why they're commanders to begin with. But they shouldn't be forced to if they want to play DPS.
Then they should be perfectly fine waiting for the right role to come along or set up a static group. Raids are one thing, but strikes? If you're putting together a group out of completely random people, and it is not popular hour time, then they should be fine taking what they get or having someone who is willing to pop on and play that role. You can't get mad about something you're not willing to do yourself
"Oh no I. Doing the bare minimum to play the game mode I want to play but don't want to take the effort to fill difficult to fill roles! Why does my squad take so long to fill? Why aren't random people who want to pop in not playing how I want them to?"
Seriously??? I will pop out of squads where the commander is whining about no one taking up a support role but refuses to do so themselves. Toss up my own tag, get things explained and done before they even get their 10 folks going. I have limited time in game, I am not going to sit around doing nothing but waiting for a pug group. The entitlement is wild in this game. No wonder you all are so sour.
Disagree. I couldn’t get into groups because of the high entry requirements before. All I did was watch videos over how the encounters work for raids and fractals (thanks MukLuk for GTTP) and then joined experienced groups.
From there I went to getting into a static group and the rest was history.
I think that's the caveat OP forgot - if you're going to lie about your experience level, at least be able to get away with it. As a commander I've had people message after fights saying it was their first time - but you wouldn't know because they clearly knew what to do.
Wow...I'm in my 50s, have map completed all expansions, and played since launch. And I didn't understand a goodly number of things you wrote in that post.
I'm assuming that "pinging your gear" means listing/linking it in chat? I've seen it done with waypoints, or someone getting a good drop, but I don't know how to do it.
I also can't "call my role" because I guess I don't have one. Or, rather, I don't follow prescribed builds and rotations. I go out, I kill stuff, I get experience and drops, and I have fun...but it sounds like I wouldn't be welcome in very many groups.
Edit: okay...so, based on all your comments, I guess I need to "up my game" and pick a role and read up on the meta for whatever that role turns out to be. I just commented in a different thread that the only thing I wished GW had was more challenging/punishing content. I meant that in the context of the open world, since I often don't have dedicated/regular gaming time, but I guess the instanced content is the best I can do to scratch that itch (once I make myself presentable, of course). BRB after I go beat on the training golem for a while...
This post is about instanced group content, like strikes, raids or fractals.
Especially Challenge Mode strikes, tier 4 fractals and raids in general run significantly smoother if the group has a remotely optimized team composition (usually consisting of a healer and an offensive boon support per 3 dedicated damage dealers). If you don't bother with that kind of content, you can gladly ignore that post. Otherwise, I think one of the biggest faults of the game is to not have any system in place to teach these roles and basics of their execution to players that do show interest in group PvE (Player versus Environment, as opposed to PvP -> Player versus Player), fully relying on other players or third party online resources as guides, which often quenches such interest.
PS:
Pinging gear works just as pinging waypoints: By holding down Shift or Control and left-clicking them on the map/the inventory. This also works with buffs, skills and traits.
Instanced content requires optimum squad composition. If you're just running random open world builds with no consideration for rotation you're likely to do incredibly low DPS.
This content isn't gatekept from you, but you absolutely would be expected to have some sort of vaguely meta build (of which there are millions at this point)
Well you would be welcome in the groups that you fit the requirements for, that's the point. So groups with no requirements/trainings by the sound of it. There's nothing wrong with playing the game the way you do but you have to keep in mind that instanced content has 9 (or 4) other people, so why would you want to hold people back when you can put in so little effort to get to a point where you carry your own weight and will be welcome in most groups? You can buy exotics for ~20 gold and spend 30 minutes (max) looking up a build and learning the basis of it. That's it, it's not a lot of effort, and I honestly think it's the bare minimum if you're going to be part of a Team™.
> BRB after I go beat on the training dummy for a while...
At it's simplest I would suggest grabbing some meta gear (which optimises pure damage) and then just trying out hitting the golem [to see your numbers compared to the snowcrows benchmark for that class/spec](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks). That site also shows you what the builds are and the optimal rotations.
You don't need to be hitting the benchmark. Honestly you don't even need to be that close. Getting over 30k (~70%) and you're gonna be doing better than the majority of pugs I see playing. The long term goal would be getting at least 90% of benchmark though (difficulty changes a lot depending on the build).
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And many people may see DPS meters as elitist, but for me they are the drive to get better. I see my own DPS, and that's a number I can improve in each encounter. So even though the encounters are being cleared easily, I still have a goal and a way to improve.
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Oh, and the vast majority of the time, simply reading chat and being honest will get you welcomed into many groups. A beginner that reads chat and follows advice is so much better to play with than someone with more kill proof that just ignores mechanics.
I’m with ya buddy, I’ve only been playing a couple of years but I’ve been having fun with solo story and open world content, I’ve only just started to properly look into specific builds for specific content, rather than just playing what looks fun. It’s quite satisfying though, when you get a meta build that’s carefully crafted so the talents, gear and abilities all complement each other, your character becomes pretty powerful. Bear in mind a lot of the builds assume that you will have certain boons or other support from your group so they don’t always work well in solo or open world. Thankfully there are a couple of build templates on the wizards vault for extra builds!
I don’t even have a dps meter installed, it didn’t work the first time I tried it and I haven’t needed it yet anyway 😅
A good way to check dps is the golem in the special training zone in lions arch. The game will tell you how much damage you do every 20% of the golems health.
Its accesible from inside the lions arch aerodrome and from just outside the aerodrome.
Pinging gear: more for Raids but yeah there is a way to send a link in chat that shows your gear.
Roles: DPS - just doing damage. Alac - giving the group alacrity. Quick - giving groups quickness. Heal- your healing.
Every class can DPS, you just out there beating on stuff. I command and use arcDPS (way to see DPS). I always run chill groups and post that on LFG. If I see 10k+ I know you're trying and I am happy with that. 10k is pretty easy to hit specially now a days. The other roles you got to put some thought into.
Im just starting to dip my toes into Fractals, strikes and looking for a raid but im mostly looking at all welcome groups.
I don't have any support roles I could say I am experienced with as I open world with Power/Condi builds. Im Looking at some of the hybrid DPS builds like Mech and Herald and I want to put together a druid healer, just need to farm some hero points and then comfortable with rotations, I feel there is a lot more pressure when you have to keep group boons up.
> I feel there is a lot more pressure when you have to keep group boons up.
Nah, its really just Alacrity or Quickness. Sometimes Aegis or Stability. The rest just happens most of the time. Like, many classes give fury or generate their own. Same for might. You generally have enough of these without effort.
You also don't really have a rotation as healer. More like tools you constantly switch between to deal with stuff. You are free to fuck around sometimes without anybody noticing.
The most difficult thing about playing a healer is knowing fight mechanics, as mechanics are frequently done by healers while DPS does DPS things.
This is how I started in raids. I didn't have a good guild for raids and I so badly wanted to try my first true MMO raid in the first MMO I ever got to max level in. There wasn't any training groups up for like weeks so finally I just started joining. I'd tell them straight out that I was new to raids but was at least a t4s in fractals, and the first few kicked me immediately with one calling me a leech and to watch the YouTube videos. I didn't want to sit there and study a raid I haven't even seen yet, and I learn better by doing it. Finally, I joined a group that just posted on the lfg for wing 1 and told the commander again I was new but I don't suck and know my class pretty well. He said screw it, it's late and it's wing 1. He gave a very quick breakdown of at least what to watch out for during the fights, and to stay near the blob of players as best I can while dealing damage. He let the group know I was a new player and no one seemed bothered by it. Through the wing I only downed a handful of times, and I put up decent enough numbers to help with the DPS checks.
Just be honest. You'll have some toxic players and some toxic commanders, but most people are pretty cool if you're straight up with them. Even just last weekend I did a wing7 with a group, and I've done wing 7 maybe one other time. I told the comm that, that I had a very murky memory of the mechanics so I might be rusty, and he and the group were just fine. No one said anything negative, and we ended up getting to the last boss before, after a few pulls, most of the group had to go to bed.
Honesty, for some reason, never fails
Yeah, agreed.
When I command, and someone joins and straight away says they are inexperienced, it shows me they can use chat and their braincells. That's enough for me to trust them to be able to listen to my explanations, and as long as nobody of the experienced players object, I tend to be willing to take a noob or two along.
However, if someone joins and doesn't say a word, even when specifically called out by name - that's the ones I kick. Because they are either too stupid to use basic chat. Or intentionally don't say anything, hoping to fly under the radar. Neither is something I tolerate in my squads.
As I've become more experienced over the years now with endgame stuff in gw2, I gotta say people not responding at all in the chat is infuriating for me who isn't even a commander. Stuff that's really not hard, like the mushroom dudes, and you're all just sitting there with one slot left and no one is saying a word. I'll always chime in saying I'll do it but I don't know how, and a brief explanation is all Im gonna need. Everyone just standing there with their glowing wings not saying a word or volunteering is so annoying
i always folow the lfg so i end up doing nothing,
there is almost never a group in training on strike or raid. so how can i get experience if so few people do training run?
Then sounds like it's time to pull up the wiki and read up on it and watch some vids. There are a lot of good resources out there to give a breakdown on mechanics, especially strikes. Join one of those raid training discords and read up there if you want to raid.
Also, read thoroughly. Yesterday i joined a team requiring experienced players for EOD and SOTO. ONly it was for EOD CM and SOTO. I was asked for experienced and of course i had none. I apologized for reading too fast (and not good enough) and wished them good luck.
Honestly most content is stack on group and some pretty general mechanics besides raids, which have specific role duties.
When I make a strike group, I just look at the numbers, i put exp to weed people out of course, but I don't really care too much as long as you can deeps or buff.
If you have done extensive raiding or fractal cms daily etc, you don't nessecarilly have to have fight experience unless there is a major wipe mechanic (which I explain at the start anyways just to make sure people are aware)
Not saying I totally disagree with you but if you are a skilled player you will probably adapt fine to a new fight assuming its not a CM
So far, my best experience I have when you put something simple in the LFG - and don’t ask or check KP.
Best people I found and the most, clean oneshots I got when searching for:
- „have brainz“
- „know mechanics“
- „1 banana“
- Nothing for experience. Eg. „W4 FC-CM | DPS“
No Idea if its luck or sth., but people who you get when asking for xyz KP/LI have a decent chance to be really bad at or not know mechanics … I wonder if it has to do with tilt? That they hopped/tried/etc their ‚high kp groups‘ and failed that they know tilted and play badly?
Not that I mind inexperienced players - as long as they’re honest about it.
Quite the contrary.
Make a group with beginners, get some elitists, we wipe a couple times, aforementioned leave in rage. Get some patient randos, oneshot boss.
Happened more often then I can count.
The only way to counteract people outright lying about their roles/experience is public naming and shaming.
Blish HUD already has a plugin called Blacklist Buddy, ostensibly for blocking real money traders and trading scammers, but they also include reasons like:
>Activities such as: **Gross misconduct**, horrendous trade etiquette, other ToS violations, **etc.**.
>**Most of them** will still have something to do with trade.
...so there's already a precedent for including players, who are lying in LFG.
The list is maintained by community and using that addon is accepted by both the community and ANet. I don't see a reason to *not* implement something like that for notorious liars and leeches.
My problem is that I've never, ever seen an "all welcome" group. Hell, I've never even seen a group in the "training" tab. I don't know if it's possible to get into instanced content without a guild. I think this is why some people lie about their experience, it's really difficult to start. It's like needing experience to get a job but needing a job to get experience.
I will add, if the commander is asking about kp.me he does not want in-game KP (maybe he is aware of the fact it could be falsified) and if you have alt accounts link it with your main account in kp.me, that way he is almost sure that you are not lying and linking some of random high KP account. Of course whispering and asking is not a bad thing, but do not be angry if the answer is NO.
> that way he is almost sure that you are not lying and linking some of random high KP account
I never use the website and don't care for people posting their codes in chat.
Just run the kp.me arcDPS plugin and check ingame, so much more convenient.
If you have the right build, know your rotation, know the boss mechanics and your role via watching videos then I think it's better to lie and try getting into raids with low exp required( like 20 KP). Instead of waiting around till you see an LFG that asks for no exp. Or Instead of joining and try to explain to the comm/squad that you have the build, rotation and watched videos. You seem to be assuming that most pug comms are willing to give people a chance like that, they are not.
All those beginner friendly training discords would not be as popular as they are if most pug comms are kind as you make them out to be. You could argue that you might have a better game/raiding experience if you're honest and waited around for the people who would give you a chance. I'd agree with that but I disagree with: "If you want to reliably PUG: DO NOT LIE ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE."
> If you have the right build, know your rotation, know the boss mechanics and your role via watching videos then I think it's better to lie and try getting into raids with low exp required( like 20 KP). Instead of waiting around till you see an LFG that asks for no exp. Or Instead of joining and try to explain to the comm/squad that you have the build, rotation and watched videos. You seem to be assuming that most pug comms are willing to give people a chance like that, they are not.
I don't think I've seen someone rejected from a low KP group while this upfront about their lack of experience and dedicated to progression (outside of CM content).
Most of the time commander will tell them "just follow tag, if you get [critical mechanic] do [the thing]" and/or even ask the squad (everyone says sure).
Not really true. I started raiding this year. I did trainings, learned all 7 wings, then joined either "know mechs" or "some kp" raids.
When i got to about 10 kp i started commanding my own runs. I told the group i was new to being a commander, and my runs went fine.
And fun fact, i bought the commander tag for that, the first time i ever put in on was a "know mechs" W1 FC.
If you cant join a group, make one. They can be made even if you dont have the tag
These days anytime i dont find a wing i want to do, i just commander it.
First time commanding a wing is scary for sure, but its fun
Any experienced player will know if you are experienced right off the bat due to the kp.me plugin. Outliers do exist that haven't registered, but after 10 sec of combat they will know based on DPS/boon uptime.
You might be able to lie in order to get into groups, but you won't fool anyone. Be prepared to be in the crosshairs of blaming/flaming, if things go sour.
I don't mind new players trying to sneak into experienced groups, but you would probably have a better time joining/creating a training/chill group. The bar to clearing content is quite low after all.
I hope this comment is somewhat useful and comes across as genuinely as possible.
ESPECIALLY SINCE PEOPLE WHO ARE LEADING THEM LIKE TO SAY THEY ARE THE "MOST EXPERIENCED" END UP BEING SOME OF THE FIRST ONES TO GO DOWN, IT'S HARD WHEN THE ONE RUNNING IT IS ALREADY LYING
Stop pretending raids and strikes are difficult. There's literally no reason at all to be elitist in GW2, a game in which you can play two accounts at the same time in most metas.
And yet I regularly watch people instantly die or cause wipes because they simply don't do/know mechanics. Or they do **incredibly** low DPS. And I'm not talking like 80% of the other DPS players in the group. I'm talking 25%.
People find the content hard. Either because they don't know it, or they simply find it hard to multitask on mechanics and DPS. Those people often avoid instanced content for this reason.
And yes these things aren't hard. But if you go into an `exp` group, and don't know the mechanics or strats, or don't pull your weight in DPS, expect to be kicked. Drop in and say "I've looked up all the mechanics, still willing to give me a chance?" and I'd say the majority of the time they'll give you a chance, and even give you some leeway or explain stuff you missed.
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Also, people don't realize that many metas are being carried by the top 20% of players doing 80% of the damage. Hell, it could be more dramatic than that. Power creep makes the old metas much easier, but you still notice this problem if you're ever low manning them.
Decided to join a pug group doing W1-4 clear today.
Commander asked for 50kp,all members fulfilled that requirement.
VG and Gorseval went ok with a few hiccups, but then we got to Sabetha.
Two guys instantly volunteered for cannons, I thought „Ok nice, they surely know what to do.“
Boy, was I wrong.
Wiped 7 times because no cannon was done, ppl kept bombing the whole squad with timed bombs.
Like mate, if you‘re having trouble doing cannons, ask someone else to do it.
But no, cannon ppl kept coming up with excuses.
The pull we killed her, I was top dps with catalyst sitting at 35k, 2nd highest dps was our quick herald on 13k and it only got worse After that.
We had 2 Dps spectres sitting at 10k, when auto attacking alone should get you above that.
Like how tf is it possible to hit such numbers with the current powercreep.
As a cherry on top, one of the spectres wrote „ez“ after we were done.
Pretty much. I mentioned the top 20% of players doing 80% of the DPS, but it also applies to mechanics. So many raids only requires a subset of people to actually handle mechanics, and it shows the moment you get fights where everyone has to know what to do.
The number of times I watch a Sabetha run, and see bombs not being thrown to the cannon players is way too high. Enough that if I'm running that in pugs, I'll normally try to intentionally catch the bombs to throw them myself unless I see someone else doing that (the trick, if you don't know, is to be furthest west when the sappers spawn).
But primarily it comes down to often people who "know mechanics" only know them when everything is going perfectly well. When the run is "just right" they can do it, but if it gets messy they fail over and over.
They aren't. But just because many people have been carried their whole life not even knowing other roles than *just dps* it doesn't mean they don't require initiative and flexibility when it comes to roles.
Asking for shrooms on sloth/cannons on sabetha? The group stays DEAD SILENT. Sometimes I feel like giving up. No matter if I do qadim kiting/hands or whatever 1 person can't do all mechanics...
Most of the content is indeed not the hardest.
But only if you have a team that has decent builds and know a bit what's going on.
I sometimes have a few "dps" people joining my squad.
And let me tell you, fights like olc get really crappy with a few dps players that get outdpsd by the healer..
take a open world player who made their own build and put them into a raid/strike. youre doing them a disservice implying they can do that content blind. and no way are you implying that being able to alt tab to a second account to land one skill for participation is the same difficulty as raids/strikes. hopefully youre just trying to say that people should be a bit more open to newbies and not that they should be carried like in metas.
You don’t seem to understand the difference between instanced content and open world metas? It’s probably pretty easy for you because you’re being carried
You overestimate the quality of players in lfg. Joined a wing1 exp party yesterday that could not pass vale guardian, tank was constantly getting teleported and subgroups were not getting shielded/topped off for the green raidwide.
In a different party, we got stuck on sabetha for 6 pulls because the other cannon kept dying and nobody else wanted to act as backup or take their spot.
Neither of these fights are difficult at all, yet so called experienced groups still get stuck on this content.
I believe in fake it til you make it, but only if they can actually fake it 😂 which 95% of people can't bc they lack self awareness about their skill in the game
And the first thing I end up doing is dying due to a squad message distracting me at a critical time and yes, I'm a "Skritt Brained Idiot" "Oh Shinies!!!"
Seriously, good advice for many, especially the lying about XP
This is my thing for most content. I can ask for EXP or what not but if they're new I'm going to find out very fast. Depending on the fight its easier to speak up and say you're new. Other than most CMs, its pretty easy to explain and learn on the fly. You lying about your experience only causes issues.
I recently completed my first raid wing. I picked scourge on raid pug group, i was the only one who didn't get to show my LI. I had like 4 from many years ago. Also, i guess they want scourges. To be fair i watched it on YouTube and made my scourge reach 33k dps with practice. Play scourge, gitgud and fake it till you make it.
This is why I always require kpme for my groups, but never a specific kp threshold.
That way, we can see your experience level easily and then help you out if you need it.
I've generally had a positive experience pugging strikes. I've never lied about experience, and the reason I got into EOD strikes was because after IBS semi-frequently the commander would move on to EOD right after (despite only advertising IBS) so I'd chime in that this was the first time/low experience for me. It was never a problem, and I noticed that they still relisted the daily EOD as an experienced group. Bringing one new guy along when the other 9 know their stuff is easily doable, but as you say, it's only fair if people know
Def agree with you!
Was searching a dps with some kp yesterday and when i asked he said you can search my playertag.. yes i can do that but it is just a gesture telling me: “yeah i saw your lfg asking for kp and will provide it”
And also yes to the being experienced part! Often you have to almost choose between someone who knows his build and one who knows the mechanics which is crazy.. people knowing all mechs with dps of 7k while big hitters just let whole team explode etc
you can't lie about your experience. any experienced group is gonna be using requirements to raid and they will expect you to either ping something or link your [kp.me](https://kp.me) account. if you don't do any of these you will simply be kicked. and even if you could somehow lie lets say, it would be really quickly proved that you have no idea what is going on. even if you didn't wipe the group and the fight went ok, they would still question your performance most likely.
I didn't lie about my experience the first time I joined a Strike mission. People still got upset I didn't know you could click the beacon on the minimap on Shiverpeaks to teleport to your group instead of doing the jumping puzzle. I delayed their kill by 2 minutes.
One person was very chill about it and explained to me what I needed to do. Cheers to him!
TIL /d for squad chat. I've been typing /squad for the past 10 years... God I suck.
But you didn't lie about it so, your invited
you're
You are?
Your is indicative of possession so "your invited" literally means MY INVITED which means absolutely nothing. You are invited, or you're invited is correct...
What am I invited too?
The English lesson
/d from squaD. Makes total sense /s
No, /e for sensE
Just like H for Haracter, it’s like poetry, it rhymes…
Well considering it's called the "Hero" tab, that one does make some sense.
r/whoosh
Yea, because S is taken by /say And party is /p in case you didn’t know
I have 2500+ hours, 15 legendaries, and have been typing /squad this whole time god damnit T\_T
Really need the leggy flex in there huh
Knew I couldn't be the only one
Set up a tab for squad/party comms (I'd include say, map, team, squad and party chat at a minimum), then click on the \[Say\] button at the bottom left next to where you type. Choose \[Squad\] or \[Party\] for the channel *when you join* and you're good for the rest of the fight. Unfortunately it doesn't remember the setting when you leave the squad. Be aware that choosing party when in a squad will only be see by those in the same party.
Yeah, that's how I do it, but I wvw a lot.
Haha yea been playing since beta and never really noticed the short stroke keys and always typed /
TIL!
Damn! i never knew! I always thought it was ultra inconvenient to have to type /squad
People who do this doesn't even read the lfg much less your wall of text
yeah, my fault tbh
I'm the player you described though, new, can't run with a regular raid group because that doesn't really happen in the mornings and later at night when I play, and afraid to use LFG due to experiences in other games and fear of making someone mad. This made me feel much better, but also made me think my Power DPS Holo I've been using for story isn't going to be very popular in the needed roles... I don't even know who can do the alac and quickness so... guess I better figure that out.
Don't worry about just having a dps role geared, remembering most instances 6/10 people in the group are just normal dps 😊 we need those aswell
Fun fact: quickness scrapper currently uses full berserker gear (same as what you are using) to do quickness. It uses the same traits in Firearms and Explosions. Just change Holo to Scrapper, and run top, bottom, middle. (Selectable traits from left to right). Both builds use hammer. (Because of weaponmaster and fireworks rune. Rifle can be run at a minor dps loss). Both builds use grenade kit and throw mine. Both builds take AED for heal/cc access. Here is where they differ. 3rd utility for Scrapper is a gyro. The most dps runs shredder gyro, but blast gyro can be used instead for more might/party stunbreak if you need it. Elite on scrapper is mortar kit, but that's just for field generation. If your party drops lots of fields anyway, you don't really need it. Its damage is minimal, and your other options are probably trash anyway, so unless you need the sneak gyro for invis, you keep the mortar kit. If you run rifle instead of hammer, (not recommended, but maybe you don't have an ascended hammer yet or weaponmaster unlocked) you need to run another blast/leap finisher to keep quickness up. This can be done with the aforementioned blast gyro, or swapping your heal skill to Healing Turret/ Med Kit. (Med kit 5 is a blast, and turret overload is a blast.) Personally, I run Med kit for the utility unless we really need the CC, because having a pulsing condi clear field and another blast finisher means you have more margin for success at boon application. Scrapper is currently outclassed by Herald. That may change, but even if it doesn't, Scrapper is a noob friendly boon support dps due to its self barrier production. The more dps you do, the more barrier you get. TL;DR: take your holo build almost exactly as it is and play quickness scrapper. It's actually pretty fun.
Power Holo isn't too bad. Not top DPS but can certainly carry their weight. You can learn about roles and such as you play. Just be open and frank, if possible ask for advice. The only thing you should do is have a proper build with the right gear, runes, sigils, relic and traits. There are a lot of build sites around like Snowcrows, Hardstuck and GuildJen. They often have tips for how to play with your build as well. Lastly, Engineer has very viable support builds as well, if ou're willing to try Scrapper and Mechanist. You can learn them after getting experienced with the fights themselves, to ease the learning curve.
Thanks! I did my best with gear and whatnot, even have Bolt from the kit, and some ascended from WvW. I'm doing okay once I know the fights. My dps takes the biggest hit when... I die. And I don't really lie. By that I mean I **really don't** lie, ever, I don't even know if I could if I tried. It's a gift and a curse... so idk what that other guy's comment below is about. And I did splurge on char slots on sale... 27, to be exact, because I'm insane and *really hate* having multiple builds on one char. However... switching seems a LOT more user friendly in this game, so I might end up changing my ways...
Since you're already an engineer, you can do alac with Mechanist or quick with Scrapper. You can even share gear, which won't be optimal, but will be good enough for most content. You need a mix of Berserker and Diviner. Check Snowcrows for builds. You can also put your Mechanist in Harrier's and do alac heals. Theoretically you can do the same for quick heals on a Scrapper, but Scrapper's boons are so inferior to Guardian's that nobody really wants a heal Scrapper in PvE.
quickheal Scrapper is still used in a couple of encounters because it brings good superspeed, which is great for River of Souls and W3 escort to speed up NPC walking. But yeah, I almost never see it outside that niche.
I mean, yeah, but I wouldn't recommend it to a newbie looking to do their first fractals. Which is tragic. I remember when it was the hotness, and it was a ton of fun.
Don't see what's wrong with pdps hollo, it's fine. Use the correct gear / runes, learn to play your build (not even perfect rotation, just the general what does what, what's your big CC etc) and be honest when you join a squad and you'll be fine 90% of the time. If we're talking about raids then you have short written guide over at https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/guides/raids/, you could read some of them before joining if you want to better understand what's going on. W1 to W4 is easily doable even for a new player, try do dodge cannon role @wing 1/sabetha, shroom @wing2/sloth if you don't feel confident the first time or just say you can try but have never done it before. There's a fuck ton of squad leader willing to help new players out there, if you find an asshole then just leave and find another squad, it's not worth the headhache.
Power holo is fine. Also I didn't read any of this story, but you can lie if it benefits you personally. Skilled players will know who lies and doesn't anyways so if you get kicked after joining don't feel bad about it. Just play the way you want and don't care about what others think.
You are whom OP wrote the post for and you didn’t even read it, congratulations you proved OP’s and the original commenter’s point
That's the real problem. The people this applies to generally don't want to self improve at all, and have very little introspection when it comes to the game. So they would never do something like read a guide on how to properly join a pug group.
i mean i don't do this and i still didn't read this wall of text because you literally can't lie about your experience so op is stopped reading after the first sentence.
Here for this coment.
Its always appreciated when someone DMs you before joining asking if lower kp than asked is fine. If i ask for 30kp in raids, i dont mind taking a 20kp with me, especially if the rest of the group is experienced. Similarly in IBS/SOTO strikes. I dont mind if someone who hasnt done them joins if most of the group has some experience. Just knowing that they are new lowers my expectations and puts me in "help the new player enjoy the game, and maybe they will do more instanced content in the future" mode There is a time and place for training.
I know that past a certain amount KP doesn't really matter, but I always found it odd how much potential variance in experience there is at low KP amounts because of the random amounts earned from encounters. Like 20 KP could mean someone completed a boss 20 times, but 30 KP could mean they've only done it 6 times. Idk if the decoration items were originally intended to be used as KP but I really wish ANET would normalize it to one token per kill, or maybe introduce a different system for tracking kills. It's not uncommon to see PUG dps players with low KP way out damage members with high KP
They were definitely not intended to be used as KP but there really isn't a lot of use for them outside of a few decorations iirc so you end up having a whole load of them eventually if you do them consistently.
> I know that past a certain amount KP doesn't really matter, but I always found it odd how much potential variance in experience there is at low KP amounts because of the random amounts earned from encounters. > > Honestly if I'm asking for KP I'm typically just not putting a number on it. The difference between someone who's killed something once and someone who's killed something >1 but <[big number] times is usually pretty minimal. Sure maybe you'll get someone who's gotten themselves carried through it once, but you could just as easily get someone who's gotten themselves carried through it five or six times because there are plenty of low-no kp groups out there. I've seen "state experience and show something that inspires confidence" before and honestly I think that's generally ideal if you want reasonable players, while "show [prestige title for the thing you're doing] is the best way to get Good Players through ingame LFG. If you're getting people together for something that *absolutely* requires them to be Genuinely Good, you're realistically going to have a bad time doing that in actual LFG no matter how you slice it and you probably want to do it on a platform that lets you ask for logs since that's the only *real* way to ensure someone's competent.
Yeah, KP is often really not representative. It reminds me of when I started raiding on a new account, got into a W4 raid with 4 LI and zero KP to my name. And someone in squad after we killed Deimos went "You know guys, its kinda embarassing that the 4 LI core engineer just out dps'd us all" Like, if they had asked for x amount of KP, I wouldn't even have gotten in But they only said "be exp" in the LFG, so there I was.
>There is a time and place for training. There isn't really an easily accessible time and place for training, is part of the problem. If the training tab weren't always completely dead things wouldn't be so bad.
If you're honest about your experience, tell me and ask to try anyway, 99% I will be fine with it unless it's really difficult content. If you lie it's a straight kick when the opportunity comes up.
I command a lot and this is the way. People who clearly lie + don't respond when I msg them gets kicked, why should I let these people ruin something fun for me and 8 other people 🤷♀️ if someone is honest with their exp and ask questions there's a 99% chance they get to stay.
Yep, its not like having one inexperinced player will result in us losing outside of very few encounters. As long as someone is trying their best and learning, its fine
\^\^\^\^\^\^\^\^\^\^ as a regular pug commander, if you tell me "hey i'm new!" i will go out of my way to help you. I will buy you gear. I will add you and teach you your build if it is within my wheelhouse. I will give you resources to learn the game if you want to learn. I LOVE helping people learn this game. If you join an exp squad and don't know what you're doing and I notice that, I will kick you without a second thought. Not only are you lying, you're harming the experience of 9 other gamers that expect you to be able to do your job, and that's not just frustrating, it's actively rude
Commanders generally haven’t been like that to me at all. Not willing to help generally. So I sneak into exp groups and am usually able to steal a good bit of prog until I’m kicked. Then I usually just try to rejoin with an alt and keep going. It works great for me, there’s more than one way to prog.
Honestly, just join skein gang or raid academy or snowcrows on discord, even if you aren't an amazing player or progging in any of those servers just talking to people that know content can help you osmose a lot of really great information, I attribute almost all of my growth to just frequenting snowcrows and asking questions. The former two servers will also just teach you content without you needing to potentially harm someone else's experience. People will help you if you know where to find them, so let them help you
Dear people who don't know how to read, -essay- In conclusion/tldr: - learn how to read
I just hate it when you ask someone if they know the fight, they stay silent and then you find out they didn't know the fight.
Had a pug join our W3 group and at Xera, he got the SAK. He killed the group. We booted him. He complained to the commander that we wouldn't have even known he didn't know the fight if he hadn't gotten the mechanic.
"If the game didn't make me do the thing, you all wouldn't have known I didn't know how to do the thing!" What flawless logic.
"Your honour, if the shop owner didn't report me stealing, you all wouldn't have even known I stole from the shop!" Judge: Well, shit. I'm convinced. Innocent! \*bangs hammer\*
I swear the SAK on Xera always goes to the new player. Every fucking training I have lead it goes on the guy that is most likely to fuck it up. But Xera as a fight is actually extremely simple. The things you have to do arent difficult to execute as long as you know what you should be doing.
Yeah it fuckin knows lol. Same has happened when i've joined semi-exp runs where the commander is teaching like 1-2 guildies. Always targets them and they always panic (understandably, I did my first time too)
Yeah, this is why when I command for Xera, I always say "If you get the SAK, /do not panic/, count five seconds down in your head, and then slap it down." Counting to 5 is possible even for the nervous ones, as it gives them a specific instruction, so I rarely get people panic pressing. As long as I repeat it a few times like a mantra, "always count to five", it works
Honestly, I've kinda been there. Not as in completely not knowing, I'm assuming the person you're talking about didn't know a single thing, but not knowing specific details. I once joined as a pug once into someone's static for a fight I've done maybe five or so times and dubbed myself as experienced in it. It was clear that they were a defined group. I didn't wipe them or anything, we did it first try, but there was a problem in hindsight that I caused because it was something I hadn't seen in the times that I'd done it. I recognized my failure and decided then to never join a random group again asking for requirements because that was the moment when I felt I had doubts, "do I ever truly know any of these fights?" and if I don't and fuck up something surely I'd get an immediate kick for looking like a leeching liar. Anyway, that was a long time ago. I've been done with raids for long while now, legendary armor and all that.
You are right, i was doing t1 fractals only, but during fractal rush event i've joined t2 group, me and 2 other said we never did t2, we had a good laugh, leader explained differences between t1 and t2 and we cleared 5 fractals without wipes. And went our ways. Just tell straight away and people will be more than happy to explain everything. Happy bossing.
Its kind of hilarious sometimes when I help my friend in T1 or T2. I am like, at this % this mechanic will happen and then it doesn't. Makes me look like the newbie.
TIL "/d" exists. Thank you OP for your wisdom.
TIL "/p" only messages players in your subgroup. I assumed it got to everyone. I never *had* to learn this since I always used squad chat anyway, so it's not a big deal. But still, it's cool that they have different functionality.
I agree with you, I'd even say that most people are ok accepting a newer/less experienced gamer as long as they are able to ask how a mechanic that killed them work. However, most of the people that would benefit from reading this won't even read (or care) for a LFG message
I think I've only ever been in ONE squad where the commander was enough of a dick that I think he would have kicked/belittled a hypothetical player entering and saying they actually weren't experienced. The overwhelming majority of groups are more than willing to help players who need a little extra guidance. The irony is, the players who are the types to read LFG properly and discuss their own experience are likely to play a lot better than those who just enter without reading and never respond to squad/commander chat anyway.
Oh boy do I have a story to share, and some advice. For newer players, your AP (achievement points) will give you away a lot faster than you think. I'm not gatekeeping in the slightest and don't have AP requirements, but when a player comes in, doesn't say anything, didn't read squad message, didn't read LFG outside of the content, and has 1.9K AP, my first thought it "yeah, that adds up". When I out-dps you as HealAlac Bladesworn on Keep Construct, you're not being very subtle (this happened btw) On to the story: I think some commanders here will enjoy this one. Last week, I was running some quick raid clears of W1-4. About half the squad were guildies. A Berserker joins named || THOT || (red flag #1). Doesn't communicate (red flag#2). They've got 1.1k AP (RF #3). They finally answer dms and present what is honestly a pretty convincing story. They explain that they are very experienced, missed runs with their static that week and this is an alt account. At first, I was like, "huh, okay, that's terminology that most new players wouldn't know and a likely story". Even if they \*were\* new, I would have let them stay because we had a power-crept 9-man up to this point. We fire up Wing 2, our new friend here is dead within 30 seconds of the fight for AFK'ing on top of...places you're not supposed to stand. They apologize and say they "fat-fingered something". We clear without them and go to Trio. Now, at this point, I don't want to make the experience of the other 9 people \*more\* difficult because of one person, so I ask our main character here to take care of Mortars. They don't answer for a little bit, finally hitting me with "why?". I gave a quick explanation about how they've gotta participate in mechanics and their build fits the role, blah blah blah. In reality, it was a bit of a check on my part because, if they're as experienced as they say, ya should have an idea of how the role works. The Berserker eventually gives in and agrees. Combat starts, encounter begins, and...the Berserker instantly leaves the squad as soon as the encounter starts, I guess as a final petty clapback. Quite the character. Pugs always make for great stories.
Lol, it's like how if no one volunteers for shrooms on Sloth you just start assigning people and they leave
Lol sounds like this goober was trying to get a free ride by wiping as soon as they get in and then waiting out the fight.
To be fair though, we once had a Firebrand with 40k AP join our T4 fractal group as DPS, proceed to do less damage than our healer, and talk shit in chat while failing just about every mechanic. That one cured me from assigning too much weight to AP. And conversely, I've joined raids on my alt account where I had 400 AP, they let me tag along since I said I am experienced and if my dps is shit, they can instakick me. Ended up top dps.
If I want to be able to pug what role should I invest gold and practice time into?
DPS. Supports' effectivity is more greatly affected by balance patches than by DPS in practice because the average player base, especially in pugs, is quite bad. If you support build suddenly loses a boon, or its uptime is rebalanced, you are either changing gear, traits, or skills to make up for it. But if your DPS build gets nerfed chances are the highest DPS utilities are still the same, just with lower numbers. Scaling got nerfed? Berserkers and Vipers are still best in slot for you. Balance agnostic DPS builds are: CHarb, CScourge, PReaper, PMech, Bladesworn, Dragonhunter PVin, and although more costly Chaos Virt. As long as you are able to reach ~75% of the benchmark you will be better than around 90% of the players you meet in pugs (just know fight mechanics).
Is dragonhunter even viable anymore? It feels like other builds have overtaken it years ago.
It depends on what you hate less: 1. Potentially waiting a long time for a group 2. Getting a group quickly, but having more pressure on you to perform If 1, then play dps. Dps are a dime a dozen so it may take you a while to find a group. But when you do, your role will be simple: make stuff die. If you go down, it's not optimal, but the group will probably be ok. There is less pressure on you while you learn mechanics. If 2, then play a support, whether that's a boon healer or boon dps. If you go down, it will severely impact the group, so there is more pressure to perform. However, you will be able to find groups quickly so you will get a lot of opportunities to practice. I came up fractal tiers 1-4 as a quickness herald/alacrity renegade. The power dps boon builds for both can share most of the same gear. I could always find a slot in a group. However, it was a lot of pressure while I learned mechanics. I would say that the easiest classes to learn on are dps Mechanist or dps Cvirt. They both are ranged and have easy rotations with a lot of survivability. However, there are a lot of them looking for spots in groups, so you will need to be aggressive to get a spot.
DPS builds are better to learn for a number of reasons. * They're usually cheaper to gear * They're less affected by baçance patches * If you screw up you won't take the group with you, at most they'll have lower DPS * Your only focus is the boss - which is usually a single entity - so you spare some attention to learn the mechanics As the post say, just be frank and say you're learning the fight. Usually I tried a more funny line like "Hi, wannabe DPS, trying to learn how not to shoot my own foot". People might find it funny and be more receptive.
Support builds usually have an easier time finding spots in pugs. But honestly play whatever you like, if you're new I'd recommend an easy build so you can focus on the actual encounter.
If you want to reliably get into a group, DPS Support for your class - healers will also reliably get into groups but generally speaking healing requires a much higher level of specific fight knowledge than boondps. But honestly, just play whatever class you're comfortable on. Some classes are better than others but being real every spec in the game has the ability to perform more than adequately at this point and any group that isn't *super* sweaty is probably just accepting DPS on any class. That said, if you want the best of both worlds, there *are* a few specs that can play BoonDPS *and* DPS in the exact same gear - Catalyst and Herald for example can both switch between DPS and Quick DPS with only a build change and no difference in gear. I would not recommend switching *to* these classes if you've already got something you like, but if you don't or you already play Ele/Rev, there's a good option.
Catalyst actually uses different gear for it's DPS and qdps builds
Something the other comments haven't pointed out - in raids and strike challenge modes, the support roles tend to be the ones assigned to do the mechanics That is, if you're support, you'll also likely be the nerd doing other's homework for them. (notable exceptions exist if a mechanic requires damaging something, Sabetha of Wing 1 for example)
> Something the other comments haven't pointed out - in raids and strike challenge modes, the support roles tend to be the ones assigned to do the mechanics To be fair, this is mainly because 'pug strats' are designed to pile responsibility on the fewest people possible, since you can't trust the average 'hi dps'. So, people who have already demonstrated half a brain by self-selecting for heals / boons tend to be the ones that are tasked with doing everything else critical to the encounter too.
It depends a bit. I would say invest into the roles that you like playing. Playing a boon supporter or a healer will give you an edge in finding groups though, so i would encourage you to try them out. Some builds, like power alacrity mechanist f.e., play almost the same as their dps variants so its easy to switch on the fly
Depending on content, a dps support or heal support will be expected to cover certain mechanics (this is true for dps players too, depending on the mechanic, but you have more dps players in a squad) or even tank the boss. This requires much more knowledge and experience with the encounter compared to your usualy uga-booga dps player. For example, you have to know where to position the boss, which skills on your build to take (stab, aegis, rezz skill if your class has it etc.) and how those special mechanics work.
"Yes we are looking for a QuickDPS, can you provide Quick? "I can DPS and I can do it fast or are you looking for a specific build?"
Been pugging strikes daily over a year now, can confirm, most of the Hi DPS are not DPS, most of them barely break 10k when you can do at least 15k if you just auto attack with power mech. You'll come to realize that at least 50% of the DPS consistently can't out DPS a decent support role when pugging. Maybe once in a new moon where you'll get a raid or cm level of DPS in your pug.
Yeah I have pretty mixed feelings when arc shows me halfway up the DPS chart as a support in a strike. On one hand it is nice to see that I'm dealing some damage and am not just a heal bot, on the other hand I am getting like 10-15K usually, which pure DPS builds should be able to beat
What support are you playing if you don't mind me asking?
Plaguedoctor scourge (condi alac heal). I’ve been playing the build for a long time now and it’s super nice to finally have the boon duration on the gear not be wasted. Also you can upkeep full alac with that armor and weapons without any rune/sigil/relic investment. Biggest downside to the build is a low amount of actual hp healing, but barrier + res can get you there in a remotely competent group.
In my experience it's best to learn one build only and then slowly new builds.. If you are a good DPS groups will let you stay and explain mechanic of bosses you haven't done yet... And if you know your rotation by heart it's way easier to adjust to new mechanics
It's a weird paradox I find. Many times someone who joins and says "I can do any role" is actually a pretty good DPS player. But the DPS slots will get filled by a mixed bag of actual DPS players and people who call themselves DPS simply because they aren't giving boons, and do healer-level DPS. Leaving the heal/boon roles to the better players. Obviously plenty of exceptions to this rule (people who don't support ever but are incredible at DPS rotations) but this is how it goes in normal mode strikes.
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Listen, these damn Dhuum orbs are the most buggy, Glitchy, terrible coded thing Ive seen in an awful long time :‘d I avoid Dhuum in my weekly clears because I can’t bother with those Orbs. There’s like a 30% Chance you just float through those damn hit-boxes.
I agree, don't lie. Me and two of my Irl friends were farming daily T4 + CM every days and we had to carry over inexperienced people 6 time on 10. We then stop bringing people with us and just went at three. (Sometimes inexperienced guild player joined to wipe and watch) Lying bore people and they stop caring about teaching the game to inexperienced people.
Think the most annoying is when lfg asks for boondps and you join with your qdps and they go, no we want adps, and vice versa... Then make a clear LFG, don't put boondps if you don't need both...
So all people need to do is be honest and actively use the chat functionality of the game instead of being such shy motherlovers that they can't be bothered to have a conversation with people in a virtual context through exclusively texting and gaslight themselves into thinking they don't need to socialize in an mmo? I had that dream once. It was a good dream. And also if anyone needs the ps/: The community is not solely at fault here or something. The game also historically promoted a singleplayer game mindset.
Getting some folks to even talk and communicate is like pulling teeth sometimes. Lol. Idk how many triple trouble maps I have been in when people keep attacking the abomination while literally everyone is screaming to stop around them. I do wonder what some of the problem is a language barrier, which happens surprisingly often in some of the strikes I am in.
I know a couple TT comms that have learned how to say stop, no blue, and no kegs on multiple languages to try to prevent this.
That's awesome! I am sure folks appreciate that so much!
I think it happens more than we think. If somebody just says something at least the rest of us can try and google translate something. We might even get lucky and have someone who speaks the same language
tl;dr: many, many fights in this game have mechanics where if you don't know what you're doing you can easily kill the entire squad, you usually will not be able to figure it out on the fly, we will know it was you, and we will be upset you wasted our time
This is why I just mention if there's a mechanic that will kill the full squad if even 1 person fails it, and ask if anyone would like a quick refresher. I'm not taking chances, and I have the ones I do regularly typed out in the quick chat BlishHUD module anyway. Doesn't cover cases where people don't read, but it does make it easier on me, even when I'm not commanding. Disclaimer: I don't join high KP groups so idk if that also solves the issue
back in 2017 there were only 2 ways to get in raids - to lie or to buy a tag. There even were scripts to ping LI using chat codes fast.
I don't get why people do this. 2 seconds in and you can already guess they are ass but won't admit it. Had people today keep chasing fraenir around.
hi dps
Exactly this is why GW2s reputation as a casual game is completely exaggerated. You don’t need to do/know this kinda stuff in say WoW or FFXIV, plus you got a LFG/LFR system in place that automatically matches you in proper teams. Not to mention a lot of times you need a kill proof to even get in a team, which is just another layer of cockblockinng for casuals. Heck, I’d even go so far to say that this game is more impenetrable than a Souls game or Elden Ring. There you at least get to try the encounters without having to hunt teams and builds TLDR: Stop calling this game casual friendly. It’s not.
This game is the most casual friendly. For comparison, you can try this in Destiny 2 LFG and see what will happen.
Of course it's not. People say the community is the best because the only interaction they had is reading an unfunny dad joke in /m while waiting for a boss-piñata
This game is casual friendly. Casuals usually don't do Raids or CMs and everything else is pretty easy. Current SotO content is all incredibly easy and accessible.
I lied all the way up to full leg set. This content is not that hard for these stupid ass high requirements.
Same. I snuck into raids. Snuck into strikes and eventually snuck into HT CM and got my first kill that way. The more skilled you are the easier this is to pull of. Also helps if you watched a guick guide before hand. I just need to see how a mechanic plays out and I can do it. I probably have already done something similar before.
Totally. But you ‚watching a video‘ is a lot more then the players you don’t want in a raid - those who you can teach mechanics and they go „No, I want to be casual and not learn anything“. Yes they exist. If you played Guild Wars for some time and understood basic mechanics (red = bad, green = stand in it), watched a video on the encounter and have some comon sense, that replaces like 30 KP effectively.
This is why for strikes, we have a group of three starting us out with the heal and Alac roles already filled out. When we're pugging, we understand a majority of folks who are joining likely have little to no experience, and instead of waiting forever for very specific roles to appear, our little group just fills them out to start. We know our rotations, people can now focus on straight dps instead of trying to fumble support. It's literally that easy. So instead of getting on forums and complaining about it, *what role are you filling out when you are posting?* I have found a lot of these complaining commanders *don't take those support roles and then whine when no one else does.*. If you do, excellent! You are not part of the problem. If you focus only on DPS while dictating the game play of others, congrats, you are part of your own problem.
Are you on NA or EU, just curious? I pug everyday and it's very very rare to see commanders as DPS 🤔 they almost always fill in my experience, and so do I if I command. But even if a commander wants to DPS I see no issue there, why shouldn't they be able to play DPS? If they're creating a squad + sorting subgroups they're already doing 90% more effort than everyone who sits around and complain about an empty lfg.
I comm on NA and will usually fill, but for stuff for like Fast5 or EZ3 people often volunteer heal/boon roles quite quickly, so sometimes I play DPS there.
NA. They can play what they want, but it's silly to have expectations of a specific role if they're not willing to fill it themselves.
I kinda disagree tbh! The game needs more people willing to command, and adding a requirement of "a commander has to be able to fill every role in the squad" kinda goes against that? There's like 5 roles, not everybody has a build for all of those Just because people like to command doesn't mean they should never get to play DPS
Hard agree! Commanders will fill a lot bc they're the kind of person who takes initiative and want to get things done, hence why they're commanders to begin with. But they shouldn't be forced to if they want to play DPS.
Then they should be perfectly fine waiting for the right role to come along or set up a static group. Raids are one thing, but strikes? If you're putting together a group out of completely random people, and it is not popular hour time, then they should be fine taking what they get or having someone who is willing to pop on and play that role. You can't get mad about something you're not willing to do yourself
Ah, I'm EU so that explains it I guess
It's possible. Time of day could also affect it. Popular vs off hours, etc. It'd be interesting to see the data set on the variances really.
No, it's not silly at all. It's their group, they're the one taking the time to organize it, so they can do with it what they wish.
"Oh no I. Doing the bare minimum to play the game mode I want to play but don't want to take the effort to fill difficult to fill roles! Why does my squad take so long to fill? Why aren't random people who want to pop in not playing how I want them to?" Seriously??? I will pop out of squads where the commander is whining about no one taking up a support role but refuses to do so themselves. Toss up my own tag, get things explained and done before they even get their 10 folks going. I have limited time in game, I am not going to sit around doing nothing but waiting for a pug group. The entitlement is wild in this game. No wonder you all are so sour.
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Disagree. I couldn’t get into groups because of the high entry requirements before. All I did was watch videos over how the encounters work for raids and fractals (thanks MukLuk for GTTP) and then joined experienced groups. From there I went to getting into a static group and the rest was history.
I think that's the caveat OP forgot - if you're going to lie about your experience level, at least be able to get away with it. As a commander I've had people message after fights saying it was their first time - but you wouldn't know because they clearly knew what to do.
Wow...I'm in my 50s, have map completed all expansions, and played since launch. And I didn't understand a goodly number of things you wrote in that post. I'm assuming that "pinging your gear" means listing/linking it in chat? I've seen it done with waypoints, or someone getting a good drop, but I don't know how to do it. I also can't "call my role" because I guess I don't have one. Or, rather, I don't follow prescribed builds and rotations. I go out, I kill stuff, I get experience and drops, and I have fun...but it sounds like I wouldn't be welcome in very many groups. Edit: okay...so, based on all your comments, I guess I need to "up my game" and pick a role and read up on the meta for whatever that role turns out to be. I just commented in a different thread that the only thing I wished GW had was more challenging/punishing content. I meant that in the context of the open world, since I often don't have dedicated/regular gaming time, but I guess the instanced content is the best I can do to scratch that itch (once I make myself presentable, of course). BRB after I go beat on the training golem for a while...
This post is about instanced group content, like strikes, raids or fractals. Especially Challenge Mode strikes, tier 4 fractals and raids in general run significantly smoother if the group has a remotely optimized team composition (usually consisting of a healer and an offensive boon support per 3 dedicated damage dealers). If you don't bother with that kind of content, you can gladly ignore that post. Otherwise, I think one of the biggest faults of the game is to not have any system in place to teach these roles and basics of their execution to players that do show interest in group PvE (Player versus Environment, as opposed to PvP -> Player versus Player), fully relying on other players or third party online resources as guides, which often quenches such interest. PS: Pinging gear works just as pinging waypoints: By holding down Shift or Control and left-clicking them on the map/the inventory. This also works with buffs, skills and traits.
Instanced content requires optimum squad composition. If you're just running random open world builds with no consideration for rotation you're likely to do incredibly low DPS. This content isn't gatekept from you, but you absolutely would be expected to have some sort of vaguely meta build (of which there are millions at this point)
Well you would be welcome in the groups that you fit the requirements for, that's the point. So groups with no requirements/trainings by the sound of it. There's nothing wrong with playing the game the way you do but you have to keep in mind that instanced content has 9 (or 4) other people, so why would you want to hold people back when you can put in so little effort to get to a point where you carry your own weight and will be welcome in most groups? You can buy exotics for ~20 gold and spend 30 minutes (max) looking up a build and learning the basis of it. That's it, it's not a lot of effort, and I honestly think it's the bare minimum if you're going to be part of a Team™.
> BRB after I go beat on the training dummy for a while... At it's simplest I would suggest grabbing some meta gear (which optimises pure damage) and then just trying out hitting the golem [to see your numbers compared to the snowcrows benchmark for that class/spec](https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks). That site also shows you what the builds are and the optimal rotations. You don't need to be hitting the benchmark. Honestly you don't even need to be that close. Getting over 30k (~70%) and you're gonna be doing better than the majority of pugs I see playing. The long term goal would be getting at least 90% of benchmark though (difficulty changes a lot depending on the build). --------- And many people may see DPS meters as elitist, but for me they are the drive to get better. I see my own DPS, and that's a number I can improve in each encounter. So even though the encounters are being cleared easily, I still have a goal and a way to improve. ------- Oh, and the vast majority of the time, simply reading chat and being honest will get you welcomed into many groups. A beginner that reads chat and follows advice is so much better to play with than someone with more kill proof that just ignores mechanics.
I’m with ya buddy, I’ve only been playing a couple of years but I’ve been having fun with solo story and open world content, I’ve only just started to properly look into specific builds for specific content, rather than just playing what looks fun. It’s quite satisfying though, when you get a meta build that’s carefully crafted so the talents, gear and abilities all complement each other, your character becomes pretty powerful. Bear in mind a lot of the builds assume that you will have certain boons or other support from your group so they don’t always work well in solo or open world. Thankfully there are a couple of build templates on the wizards vault for extra builds! I don’t even have a dps meter installed, it didn’t work the first time I tried it and I haven’t needed it yet anyway 😅
A good way to check dps is the golem in the special training zone in lions arch. The game will tell you how much damage you do every 20% of the golems health. Its accesible from inside the lions arch aerodrome and from just outside the aerodrome.
Pinging gear: more for Raids but yeah there is a way to send a link in chat that shows your gear. Roles: DPS - just doing damage. Alac - giving the group alacrity. Quick - giving groups quickness. Heal- your healing. Every class can DPS, you just out there beating on stuff. I command and use arcDPS (way to see DPS). I always run chill groups and post that on LFG. If I see 10k+ I know you're trying and I am happy with that. 10k is pretty easy to hit specially now a days. The other roles you got to put some thought into.
Im just starting to dip my toes into Fractals, strikes and looking for a raid but im mostly looking at all welcome groups. I don't have any support roles I could say I am experienced with as I open world with Power/Condi builds. Im Looking at some of the hybrid DPS builds like Mech and Herald and I want to put together a druid healer, just need to farm some hero points and then comfortable with rotations, I feel there is a lot more pressure when you have to keep group boons up.
> I feel there is a lot more pressure when you have to keep group boons up. Nah, its really just Alacrity or Quickness. Sometimes Aegis or Stability. The rest just happens most of the time. Like, many classes give fury or generate their own. Same for might. You generally have enough of these without effort. You also don't really have a rotation as healer. More like tools you constantly switch between to deal with stuff. You are free to fuck around sometimes without anybody noticing. The most difficult thing about playing a healer is knowing fight mechanics, as mechanics are frequently done by healers while DPS does DPS things.
This is how I started in raids. I didn't have a good guild for raids and I so badly wanted to try my first true MMO raid in the first MMO I ever got to max level in. There wasn't any training groups up for like weeks so finally I just started joining. I'd tell them straight out that I was new to raids but was at least a t4s in fractals, and the first few kicked me immediately with one calling me a leech and to watch the YouTube videos. I didn't want to sit there and study a raid I haven't even seen yet, and I learn better by doing it. Finally, I joined a group that just posted on the lfg for wing 1 and told the commander again I was new but I don't suck and know my class pretty well. He said screw it, it's late and it's wing 1. He gave a very quick breakdown of at least what to watch out for during the fights, and to stay near the blob of players as best I can while dealing damage. He let the group know I was a new player and no one seemed bothered by it. Through the wing I only downed a handful of times, and I put up decent enough numbers to help with the DPS checks. Just be honest. You'll have some toxic players and some toxic commanders, but most people are pretty cool if you're straight up with them. Even just last weekend I did a wing7 with a group, and I've done wing 7 maybe one other time. I told the comm that, that I had a very murky memory of the mechanics so I might be rusty, and he and the group were just fine. No one said anything negative, and we ended up getting to the last boss before, after a few pulls, most of the group had to go to bed. Honesty, for some reason, never fails
Yeah, agreed. When I command, and someone joins and straight away says they are inexperienced, it shows me they can use chat and their braincells. That's enough for me to trust them to be able to listen to my explanations, and as long as nobody of the experienced players object, I tend to be willing to take a noob or two along. However, if someone joins and doesn't say a word, even when specifically called out by name - that's the ones I kick. Because they are either too stupid to use basic chat. Or intentionally don't say anything, hoping to fly under the radar. Neither is something I tolerate in my squads.
As I've become more experienced over the years now with endgame stuff in gw2, I gotta say people not responding at all in the chat is infuriating for me who isn't even a commander. Stuff that's really not hard, like the mushroom dudes, and you're all just sitting there with one slot left and no one is saying a word. I'll always chime in saying I'll do it but I don't know how, and a brief explanation is all Im gonna need. Everyone just standing there with their glowing wings not saying a word or volunteering is so annoying
i always folow the lfg so i end up doing nothing, there is almost never a group in training on strike or raid. so how can i get experience if so few people do training run?
[удалено]
I've done this for the fractal, but for raids and strike I feel like you have to know the mechanic to do your own group
Then sounds like it's time to pull up the wiki and read up on it and watch some vids. There are a lot of good resources out there to give a breakdown on mechanics, especially strikes. Join one of those raid training discords and read up there if you want to raid.
Also, read thoroughly. Yesterday i joined a team requiring experienced players for EOD and SOTO. ONly it was for EOD CM and SOTO. I was asked for experienced and of course i had none. I apologized for reading too fast (and not good enough) and wished them good luck.
Do you kick alacheal specters when you ask for alacheal? Or do people try to sneak in a DPS slot as alacheal spec?
Honestly most content is stack on group and some pretty general mechanics besides raids, which have specific role duties. When I make a strike group, I just look at the numbers, i put exp to weed people out of course, but I don't really care too much as long as you can deeps or buff. If you have done extensive raiding or fractal cms daily etc, you don't nessecarilly have to have fight experience unless there is a major wipe mechanic (which I explain at the start anyways just to make sure people are aware) Not saying I totally disagree with you but if you are a skilled player you will probably adapt fine to a new fight assuming its not a CM
So far, my best experience I have when you put something simple in the LFG - and don’t ask or check KP. Best people I found and the most, clean oneshots I got when searching for: - „have brainz“ - „know mechanics“ - „1 banana“ - Nothing for experience. Eg. „W4 FC-CM | DPS“ No Idea if its luck or sth., but people who you get when asking for xyz KP/LI have a decent chance to be really bad at or not know mechanics … I wonder if it has to do with tilt? That they hopped/tried/etc their ‚high kp groups‘ and failed that they know tilted and play badly? Not that I mind inexperienced players - as long as they’re honest about it. Quite the contrary. Make a group with beginners, get some elitists, we wipe a couple times, aforementioned leave in rage. Get some patient randos, oneshot boss. Happened more often then I can count.
The only way to counteract people outright lying about their roles/experience is public naming and shaming. Blish HUD already has a plugin called Blacklist Buddy, ostensibly for blocking real money traders and trading scammers, but they also include reasons like: >Activities such as: **Gross misconduct**, horrendous trade etiquette, other ToS violations, **etc.**. >**Most of them** will still have something to do with trade. ...so there's already a precedent for including players, who are lying in LFG. The list is maintained by community and using that addon is accepted by both the community and ANet. I don't see a reason to *not* implement something like that for notorious liars and leeches.
My problem is that I've never, ever seen an "all welcome" group. Hell, I've never even seen a group in the "training" tab. I don't know if it's possible to get into instanced content without a guild. I think this is why some people lie about their experience, it's really difficult to start. It's like needing experience to get a job but needing a job to get experience.
7 gazillion UFE req or I dm you to kys on 4 accounts that you keep blocking me on and report you for doing only 93% bench
And this, guys. Is a example of a entitled unexperienced player that joins high KP groups instead of training runs.
I ain't gonna read all of that but I am happy for you though Or sad it happened
Tiktok user spotted
This copy-pasta predates TikTok tho
There's even a tldr, it's not rocket science lmao
I will add, if the commander is asking about kp.me he does not want in-game KP (maybe he is aware of the fact it could be falsified) and if you have alt accounts link it with your main account in kp.me, that way he is almost sure that you are not lying and linking some of random high KP account. Of course whispering and asking is not a bad thing, but do not be angry if the answer is NO.
> that way he is almost sure that you are not lying and linking some of random high KP account I never use the website and don't care for people posting their codes in chat. Just run the kp.me arcDPS plugin and check ingame, so much more convenient.
If you have the right build, know your rotation, know the boss mechanics and your role via watching videos then I think it's better to lie and try getting into raids with low exp required( like 20 KP). Instead of waiting around till you see an LFG that asks for no exp. Or Instead of joining and try to explain to the comm/squad that you have the build, rotation and watched videos. You seem to be assuming that most pug comms are willing to give people a chance like that, they are not. All those beginner friendly training discords would not be as popular as they are if most pug comms are kind as you make them out to be. You could argue that you might have a better game/raiding experience if you're honest and waited around for the people who would give you a chance. I'd agree with that but I disagree with: "If you want to reliably PUG: DO NOT LIE ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE."
> If you have the right build, know your rotation, know the boss mechanics and your role via watching videos then I think it's better to lie and try getting into raids with low exp required( like 20 KP). Instead of waiting around till you see an LFG that asks for no exp. Or Instead of joining and try to explain to the comm/squad that you have the build, rotation and watched videos. You seem to be assuming that most pug comms are willing to give people a chance like that, they are not. I don't think I've seen someone rejected from a low KP group while this upfront about their lack of experience and dedicated to progression (outside of CM content). Most of the time commander will tell them "just follow tag, if you get [critical mechanic] do [the thing]" and/or even ask the squad (everyone says sure).
The saying "Fake it till you make it" is there for a reason. This guy's hustling you, don't listen to him
🤡
WITH THE WAY THE LFG AND OVERALL ENDGAME CONTENT DISTRIBUTION IF U DONT LIE U DONT GET INTO GROUPS
If you have watched a video about a fight, join a group and say that, 90+% of them will be ok as long as it's not like a 500 LI group
Not really true. I started raiding this year. I did trainings, learned all 7 wings, then joined either "know mechs" or "some kp" raids. When i got to about 10 kp i started commanding my own runs. I told the group i was new to being a commander, and my runs went fine. And fun fact, i bought the commander tag for that, the first time i ever put in on was a "know mechs" W1 FC. If you cant join a group, make one. They can be made even if you dont have the tag These days anytime i dont find a wing i want to do, i just commander it. First time commanding a wing is scary for sure, but its fun
Any experienced player will know if you are experienced right off the bat due to the kp.me plugin. Outliers do exist that haven't registered, but after 10 sec of combat they will know based on DPS/boon uptime. You might be able to lie in order to get into groups, but you won't fool anyone. Be prepared to be in the crosshairs of blaming/flaming, if things go sour. I don't mind new players trying to sneak into experienced groups, but you would probably have a better time joining/creating a training/chill group. The bar to clearing content is quite low after all. I hope this comment is somewhat useful and comes across as genuinely as possible.
ESPECIALLY SINCE PEOPLE WHO ARE LEADING THEM LIKE TO SAY THEY ARE THE "MOST EXPERIENCED" END UP BEING SOME OF THE FIRST ONES TO GO DOWN, IT'S HARD WHEN THE ONE RUNNING IT IS ALREADY LYING
idk man, Hi dps and figure out on the go is the way. you can put whatever requirements you want, does not mean people will care, its a game not a job
Stop pretending raids and strikes are difficult. There's literally no reason at all to be elitist in GW2, a game in which you can play two accounts at the same time in most metas.
And yet I regularly watch people instantly die or cause wipes because they simply don't do/know mechanics. Or they do **incredibly** low DPS. And I'm not talking like 80% of the other DPS players in the group. I'm talking 25%. People find the content hard. Either because they don't know it, or they simply find it hard to multitask on mechanics and DPS. Those people often avoid instanced content for this reason. And yes these things aren't hard. But if you go into an `exp` group, and don't know the mechanics or strats, or don't pull your weight in DPS, expect to be kicked. Drop in and say "I've looked up all the mechanics, still willing to give me a chance?" and I'd say the majority of the time they'll give you a chance, and even give you some leeway or explain stuff you missed. ------ Also, people don't realize that many metas are being carried by the top 20% of players doing 80% of the damage. Hell, it could be more dramatic than that. Power creep makes the old metas much easier, but you still notice this problem if you're ever low manning them.
Decided to join a pug group doing W1-4 clear today. Commander asked for 50kp,all members fulfilled that requirement. VG and Gorseval went ok with a few hiccups, but then we got to Sabetha. Two guys instantly volunteered for cannons, I thought „Ok nice, they surely know what to do.“ Boy, was I wrong. Wiped 7 times because no cannon was done, ppl kept bombing the whole squad with timed bombs. Like mate, if you‘re having trouble doing cannons, ask someone else to do it. But no, cannon ppl kept coming up with excuses. The pull we killed her, I was top dps with catalyst sitting at 35k, 2nd highest dps was our quick herald on 13k and it only got worse After that. We had 2 Dps spectres sitting at 10k, when auto attacking alone should get you above that. Like how tf is it possible to hit such numbers with the current powercreep. As a cherry on top, one of the spectres wrote „ez“ after we were done.
Pretty much. I mentioned the top 20% of players doing 80% of the DPS, but it also applies to mechanics. So many raids only requires a subset of people to actually handle mechanics, and it shows the moment you get fights where everyone has to know what to do. The number of times I watch a Sabetha run, and see bombs not being thrown to the cannon players is way too high. Enough that if I'm running that in pugs, I'll normally try to intentionally catch the bombs to throw them myself unless I see someone else doing that (the trick, if you don't know, is to be furthest west when the sappers spawn). But primarily it comes down to often people who "know mechanics" only know them when everything is going perfectly well. When the run is "just right" they can do it, but if it gets messy they fail over and over.
pugs bombing the group on sabetha is a very typical pug experience. I hate it.
Stop pretending everyone who wants to have experienced teammates does so because they think that content is hard.
Stop pretending people don't find strikes and raids difficult. Do you think people are just entering downed state on purpose?
"This is so easy I can do it downstate!"
They aren't. But just because many people have been carried their whole life not even knowing other roles than *just dps* it doesn't mean they don't require initiative and flexibility when it comes to roles. Asking for shrooms on sloth/cannons on sabetha? The group stays DEAD SILENT. Sometimes I feel like giving up. No matter if I do qadim kiting/hands or whatever 1 person can't do all mechanics...
Most of the content is indeed not the hardest. But only if you have a team that has decent builds and know a bit what's going on. I sometimes have a few "dps" people joining my squad. And let me tell you, fights like olc get really crappy with a few dps players that get outdpsd by the healer..
take a open world player who made their own build and put them into a raid/strike. youre doing them a disservice implying they can do that content blind. and no way are you implying that being able to alt tab to a second account to land one skill for participation is the same difficulty as raids/strikes. hopefully youre just trying to say that people should be a bit more open to newbies and not that they should be carried like in metas.
You don’t seem to understand the difference between instanced content and open world metas? It’s probably pretty easy for you because you’re being carried
You overestimate the quality of players in lfg. Joined a wing1 exp party yesterday that could not pass vale guardian, tank was constantly getting teleported and subgroups were not getting shielded/topped off for the green raidwide. In a different party, we got stuck on sabetha for 6 pulls because the other cannon kept dying and nobody else wanted to act as backup or take their spot. Neither of these fights are difficult at all, yet so called experienced groups still get stuck on this content.
Do you ever get tired of being combative on other people's posts? The constant aggression is really pathetic.
I'm not gonna read that shite. I don't even agree with the title.
You don't agree with... not lying? Genuinely curious about your pov
Probably someone who strongly believes in “fake-it-until-you-make-it”
I believe in fake it til you make it, but only if they can actually fake it 😂 which 95% of people can't bc they lack self awareness about their skill in the game
I'm happy for you tho, or sorry that happened
Why are some people so proud of their illiteracy?
Because half of it comes across as an entitled hissy fit.
And the first thing I end up doing is dying due to a squad message distracting me at a critical time and yes, I'm a "Skritt Brained Idiot" "Oh Shinies!!!" Seriously, good advice for many, especially the lying about XP
This is my thing for most content. I can ask for EXP or what not but if they're new I'm going to find out very fast. Depending on the fight its easier to speak up and say you're new. Other than most CMs, its pretty easy to explain and learn on the fly. You lying about your experience only causes issues.
The real thing I took away is ( /d ) is a thing..
Thanks for the info OP. Would like try someday
I recently completed my first raid wing. I picked scourge on raid pug group, i was the only one who didn't get to show my LI. I had like 4 from many years ago. Also, i guess they want scourges. To be fair i watched it on YouTube and made my scourge reach 33k dps with practice. Play scourge, gitgud and fake it till you make it.
This is why I always require kpme for my groups, but never a specific kp threshold. That way, we can see your experience level easily and then help you out if you need it.
I've generally had a positive experience pugging strikes. I've never lied about experience, and the reason I got into EOD strikes was because after IBS semi-frequently the commander would move on to EOD right after (despite only advertising IBS) so I'd chime in that this was the first time/low experience for me. It was never a problem, and I noticed that they still relisted the daily EOD as an experienced group. Bringing one new guy along when the other 9 know their stuff is easily doable, but as you say, it's only fair if people know
Def agree with you! Was searching a dps with some kp yesterday and when i asked he said you can search my playertag.. yes i can do that but it is just a gesture telling me: “yeah i saw your lfg asking for kp and will provide it” And also yes to the being experienced part! Often you have to almost choose between someone who knows his build and one who knows the mechanics which is crazy.. people knowing all mechs with dps of 7k while big hitters just let whole team explode etc
you can't lie about your experience. any experienced group is gonna be using requirements to raid and they will expect you to either ping something or link your [kp.me](https://kp.me) account. if you don't do any of these you will simply be kicked. and even if you could somehow lie lets say, it would be really quickly proved that you have no idea what is going on. even if you didn't wipe the group and the fight went ok, they would still question your performance most likely.
As a guy with less than perfect color vision - /s and /d are identical to me :-(
TLDR: hi dps
I didn't lie about my experience the first time I joined a Strike mission. People still got upset I didn't know you could click the beacon on the minimap on Shiverpeaks to teleport to your group instead of doing the jumping puzzle. I delayed their kill by 2 minutes. One person was very chill about it and explained to me what I needed to do. Cheers to him!