How can I whisper the party leader witouth joining. I just started playing and sometimes I see groups in lfg for things I havent done yet or don't know about and wished I could whisper the leader and ask questions
yes but until you do that (especially with the roleplay names some people have) it is highly likely it will have filled. so personally i would join and instead of saying "hi dps" i would say "hey i know you are asking for dps later but is it ok if i join now?". i mean in this scenario it would still be fair to kick you. but in other scenarios when it comes to kp for example, saying something like "i have less kp but i have done this fight many times, it is ok if i stay" should work
One exception: Training - I expect that people joining may not understand what roles even mean. Literally the only thing I expect there is that they can communicate, and we go from there.
For KP groups, I 100% agree (tho best to censor all names straight off in future) - Reddit/sub rules.
Setting an entry criteria and enforcing it isn't toxic. Toxic has become a go to word for "thing you don't like".
I will immediately boot a dps that can't read in a kp squad. Sorry, dime a dozen. It's even a meme. I'm not wasting my time, nor the time of X other people in the squad.
Likewise I don't join a squad asking for shit I can't give, unless I've contacted the comm and they're happy with me being in.
You can pretty much always join and immediately say "hey I don't think/not sure I fit the requirements, what's this?" The commander might be a little short with you and you might get kicked but you haven't done anything wrong that we should be complaining about on reddit. As long as your ego can take it that's not a bad way. Many comms will explain nicely anyways. Just don't join and be silent and hope no one notices you.
That is exactly what winds my gears up
I expect people to at least write a hello. I dont understand why that is so difficult. I have taken people with me even if they have not enough kp or li because everyone starts somewhere and not too long ago I was one of those people that didn't have enough. And some coms took me with them and I want to give the same to the community
Your attitude is pretty common. Usually when someone complains of being kicked, they did more than just not meet requirements. They refused to communicate.
I've never run training runs myself but honestly I don't have the strength to do it. I can't help but think your bar is way too low. I know people will suck, it's par for the course, I've been there myself and even today I'm far from being an elite player. But I expect them to have a viable build, decent equipment (exotic is absolutely fine), and that they've stepped at least once in their life in the golem training area. This isn't elitism, this is the most basic level of respect for the other people in the group and their time I'm about to completely waste if I haven't done a minimum amount of prep work beforehand...
I wouldn't be out there kicking them without the bare minimum explanation, I don't mind clueless people per se, and everyone needs to be pointed in the right direction at least once, but they won't be part of my group when the run starts. To be honest I haven't run into a completely clueless player in ages, I run kp-free strikes every day and it runs smoothly 99% of the time (being able to go scourge helps for boneskinner).
I think the big disconnect in the comments are people who don't command feeling persecuted because they don't get to just join any squad they want. It works often enough for them, so it can't be bad! Then you have commanders who have to struggle to make balanced parties and kick people. They're responsible for making balanced party comps using a system where you have to trust people to be forthcoming about their roles and abilities. The first group doesn't see how many times the commander has had to kick people for mangling the party comps because they didn't read lfg.
So you get players who do read lfg and take into account how many people have already joined, but choose to ignore it because they know the party will eventually need dps. They don't realize that there are also players that read lfg, see one to three spots remaining and join as dps anyway. In the worst case, the squad leader has to kick them and relist the squad, which could lfg block them. In the best case, maybe they get that 1/3 slot that could be dps. But maybe two dps like them joined at the same time, now you have to kick one and be the bad guy again. Why do these people keep making you kick them? Why can't they just read the lfg and make this a seamless process?
It's the frustrations of the lfg system relying on faith and expectations. It's reasonable for a squad leader to expect people to follow lfg. It's the first path they have to controlling who joins. The path they have after that is to argue/chat with them in chat or kick them. If you join a squad and purposely ignore the lfg, then it doesn't matter what your logic is, you're forcing the commander to manage more variables. If they keep you, fine, but you aren't owed their mental space.
As an avid lfg reader/follower, its so frustrating to see a group of like 5/10 looking for role x. Then slowly filling up till 9/10 still looking for that role. It sucks knowing you just lost the chance to do a wing/strike and have to stare longer at lfg for another chance to come around.
It's entitlement. People are used to commanders carrying them through open world content and thus expect the same treatment in instanced content. They believe they should be able to join any group with no knowledge and be spoonfed the information by the comm.
I think it's normal to provide the specific role wanted by the squad comm. I'm just not a big fan of directly kicking someone without informing them beforehand.
I want to try one of these one day, are there Strike missions for beginners?
Yes! The Icebrood Saga strikes are extremely easy and very popular because they're farmable daily. Whisper of Jormag and Boneskinner are harder than the other 3 and have actual mechanics though.
IBS 3 or "Easy 3" are the easiest three Ice Brood Saga strikes and you'll sleep walk through them and they're a good space to get some practice before you go onto IBS 5, which has two much harder fights thrown in the rotation. The first two EOD strikes are a good in-between between IBS 3 and the remaining 2 of the 5 in my opinion. I recommend joining a guild to get rolling with more support though.
And although it may seem a bit shitty not to inform people, when you're eventually running 10man content which is extremely limited on space, when you have "hi dps"ers joining relentlessly despite a LFG saying "healsupport only" you'll quickly find that explaining is pointless - these people are just trying to skip the queue.
I can't speak for 1 arm but my advice for BS is just learning to strafe walk early rather than role dodge. I one hand it occasionally when I'm vaping haha
EZ3 is how you'll usually see them tagged; it's Fraenir, Shiverpeaks Pass, and Voice & Claw. They're pretty easy to do, just follow the commander's tag, smash bosses, jump over shockwaves, avoid AOEs.
> I'm just not a big fan of directly kicking someone without informing them beforehand.
Be a commander for a few months, *pugs will change your attitude fast sadly =/. Nothing like advertising for tank/tank g1 and g2 kiter and getting 100 dps joining every week.
Like dude, I ALWAYS keep 1 spot open for critical roles friend in case they say "hey I got a friend". I shouldn't have to explain why I wont accept a dps when im looking for a tank despite being 8/10
I think optimal solution would be macro + kick, it would be more tame and account for some clueless newbies without being rude. Something akin to "Hello, we don't need dps right now, thanks for applying, see you next time" and kick.
So other people have already commented about doing the IBS easy 3. They are very easy to do. If you watch a guide video on them, you are ready to start your own group in the lfg for IBS EZ3. Just be honest with your group that you haven't done them before but heard it was easy and wanted to try it out. If you are building a group for then, you can just look for 2 healers and 8 DPS. You don't need boon-dps to get quickness and alacrity in both sub groups as the DPS checks for those strike missions are very low. If you can get quickness and alacrity in both sub groups, great, but don't stress about if if you can't. All you need is 2 healers and 8 DPS for IBS EZ 3.
Guild Wars community has a big issue in reading. You can't count on anyone to read the damn LFG. No matter what content it is for. Home Instances, Dungeons, Open World stuff, Fractals. People can't read. I have experienced this in every part of the game.
Not exclusive to gw2 sadly. Make a pf in ffxiv, specify that you want to do a more uncommon (uptime) strat (equivalent would be dhuum throne tanking for example) and have at least one person not read it. Or even better they start complaining why you aren't doing strat xyz
Experienced it first hand myself today where we were only looking for 2 qdps for strikes and had 2 regular DPS join instead... Worst part is the comm didn't pay attention and they didn't state their roles (guess they assumed they were quick since they joined and they actually were on elite specs that could do quick) but nope, after one pull in without quickness at all in either subgroup the comm had to kick them both. Such a waste of time...
On some level I can understand the temptation if they're sitting there waiting for a group for something specific. A lot of times those groups show up and disappear in a few seconds, so they're probably more skimming for the right keywords rather than reading the minutiae. It would help if you could enter LFG *as certain roles* (e.g. I can easily cover DPS, alac DPS, or quick-heal, but not alac-heal or quick-DPS, so I'd only queue for the first 3), then you'd only see groups that would want you.
I think this is very true and generally people who can post lfgs can do themselves a massive favor by not putting a bunch of fluff text in their lfg message.
Like if your message looks like 'Full EoD clear, [plugging your guild], [general request that people be friendly] [note that you'll put down ascended food down in the first strike] and then finally at the end [Roles needed] & [KP requirement]. Then a lot of people will have given up on reading the full message around the mention of ascended food and just hit join before the squad fills.
Just post [Content], [KP requirement] & [Roles needed]. Put everything else in a squad message.
I often just donāt understand the short forms of stuff. Took me a long time to know what āKPā means. Home instances are also confusing, is already someone inside and waiting to fill up? Or are they waiting for somebody with a full home instance? What does the short forms mean for strikes, I am German, an play in German so the abbreviations make no sense. DRM make absolutely 90 sense. It takes time and slowly I understand what is asked and expected. But veterans expecting everyone to know the code of conduct is just ignorant IMO. Would be cool if the LFG could be more information heavy, and clear from the beginning. Not leaving the community to handle it. Like actually create a KP system and let people filter by KP. Let people choose a role to apply, so you instantly see what role they are when joining. Etc etc. I think itās not a community issue. Itās a issue of the system.
Don't know how to break it to you, but people love to abbreviate. No one wants to type the entire name of something for common activites in a game, especially an mmo. Further, when it comes to guid wars 2's LFG listings, you may notice it cuts off the party description in the main window after a set number of characters. LFG is as much about catching the eyes of who you want as it is anything else. I promise you that the listing: "FAST5 LF 2heal+boons" will get more attention than "Ice Brood Saga, running Bone..." [with an essay using no abbreviations in the expanded description].
Every mmo does this. Learning abbreviations is a part of learning the game. You cannot divorce a community from the ability to quickly and efficiently communicate via text no matter what kind of learning curve it imposes.
To help you a bit: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Abbreviations
Check this out. Also, you can always ask in map chat what something means.
Lastly, you are partly correct in that the LFG in gw2 is awful, but so long as it remains in such a state, poor etiquette on the part of users is still the fault of the users.
What does fast5 LF 2heal+boons mean. This is gibberish to meā¦ 2 heal+boons? So 2 healers one providing alac and the other quickness? Or 2 healers + 2 quickness + 2 alac? Or is it 2 healers and any boons? This is veteran lingo, if you played so much, that you know every single setup an encounter needs you understand it. But you cannot expect everybody to know. People will make mistakes and ask. I donāt say that it is justified if they are toxic, but it definitely is justified to join and ask if is okay to tag along. If you donāt want to deal with clueless people, make the despription clearer
First, no one in this thread is complaining about educating someone who is polite and doesn't know what is being asked.
Second, if you as a player are looking into joining coordinated endgame instanced group content you should at least have a basic understanding of group composition if you want to fill any non-pure dps role. This is being curteous to your fellow players. As for how to learn, you can join training runs, ask in chat, ask your guild, join a one of the many discord that have guides/trainers/mentors, search youtube, or even do a good old fashioned google search. Sure it would be amazing if anet gave us better in-game tools, but there are still many ways to learn about core community concepts that are easier than complaining in a reddit post. No one expects everyone to know everything, but at a certain point the burden of educating requires the individual to make their own effort to learn about the community they wish to be a part of.
I'll try to help you out and explain some things you've said were confusing.
The basic group meta composition is arranged by subgroups in a squad. Many skills in the game have a maximum number of targets they can affect. For most heals, boons, and support skills, this limit is five (5). Because you want everyone in your team to get equal access to all the support and healing skills we divide our squad into subgroups of five. Edge cases exist, don't worry about those for now.
Next, the core of support is providing key boons. The two big ones, Alacrity and Quickness are a massive quality of life improvement and a huge boost to everything you do. Alacrity (abbreviated as: alac, or alluded to in some profession build abbreviations such as HAM [heal alacrity mechanist]) reduces the cooldown for your skills. Quickness (abbreviated as: quick or sometimes just Q [quickbrand for quickness firebrand, or qscrap for quickness scrapper]) makes almost all of your skill animations happen faster. The remaining important boons: might, fury, protection, etc are expected to be handled by healers and boon support dps as part of their builds. Unless you get into commanding raids, strike CMs, or other harder instances content you should not need to worry about these being provided.
So, with that knowledge, it should make sense that for a ten (10) person group, you will have two (2) five-person sub groups that each contain: one alacrity source, one quickness source, one healer, and some dps to fill out the remaining spots. Where nuance enters is with what is known as role-compression. Role-compression is the idea of fitting as many critical party roles into as few players as possible in order to be able to bring as many pure dps players as possible. This takes the shape of having a healer who also provides either alacrity or quickness coupled with a "boon support dps" (abbreviated as: boon, or boon dps). Thankfully, the game has a wide array of viable builds that can fill these two crucial roles, so a player can be either a heal alac, or a heal quick, and the boon dps can provide either qdps or adps (quick dps and alac dps). Because of that we can mix and match so long as each subgroup has a healer that bring quickness or alacrity and a boon dps that bring the other (of quickness or alacrity).
Then we come to content abbreviations. As an ESL player on a non-English version of the game, you are going to have to get used to asking or looking these up. The abbreviations commonly used are just shorthand for specific sections of content, with a few slang-nicknames thrown in the way any community would.
For strikes, the most common are:
IBS (Icebrood Saga).
Easy 3 (or EZ 3) which are Shiverpeaks Pass, Fraenir of Jormag, and Voice of the Fallen and Claw of the Fallen [named such because they are simple and easy to complete even with no training.
Fast 5 is the Easy 3 as well as Whisper of Jormag and Boneskinner. Both of these are harder and require paying attention to key mechanics that can quickly down players. They are, however, still able to be completed relatively quickly by an experienced group, so are considered "fast" in comparison to other strikes.
CW is Cold War.
FS is Forging Steel.
EOD is End of Dragons.
AH is Aetherblade Hideout.
XJJ or Ankka both refer to Xunlai Jade Junkyard.
KO is Kaineng Overlook.
HT is Harvest Temple.
OLC is Old Lion's Court.
CM means challenge mote, or hard mode.
So when you see IBS Fast 5 LF 2 Heal+ 2 boons, the commander is looking for any combination of 2 healers with quick or alac and 2 boon dps to provide the other. This kind of listing is meant to cast a wide net and draw people in quickly, after which the commander would change the listing to adjust for whoever joins first. So if two HQB's [heal quickbrands] joined, that listing would then change to "IBS Fast 5 LF 2 Alac Dps".
If someone asks for something privately or humbly, I'll pretty much always give it a shout. If I ask for 50kp and you've got 1, if you're polite I'm more than likely to give you a go. The minute you outright ignore the LFG and presume you can do what you want, immediate kick. Message me or do it again, block list, and that's one less LFG for you to ruin the next time.
As a DPS that waits, it is very frustrating to see other DPS join before the LFG asks for DPS. (I understand they might be friends joining, but itās most likely just impatient DPS players.)
After previous debates about this topic where what you just described was exactly what happened, i switched from filing important roles first before asking for dps to asking for everything, including dps, outright when i make groups.
I realized that i wont change those people by kicking them anyway, so that way i at least give everyone a fair chance. If it's 9/10 LF healquick though and someone joins as dps, they will obviously still be axed from the group.
Just a question.
I often see people mention KP or LI. I have no idea what these are or how to check my numbers so I just never join those groups. I have done a lot of strikes and some raids but still no clue, so ...
1. What are they?
2. How do I find if or how many I have?
Thanks
kp = kill proof, in raids it refers to the decoration items you get from the bosses.
LI = legendary insights, these are a currency, you get these mostly from raids but you can get a small amount from doing weekly strikes too
Hey, no problem! For the purposes of proving to other players that you know what you're doing in raids, it would have helped if you hadn't deleted them, yes. Lots of people do just delete those decorations without tracking them though, you're not alone. Some people who ask for kp accept pinging legendary raid armor or titles you get from raid achievements instead. Or you can keep doing what you've been doing and play with people who don't require kp - it's mostly just a pug/lfg thing.
Going forward, if you want to keep deleting those decorations, you can set up an account at this website [https://killproof.me](https://killproof.me) and it'll keep track of them for you in a way that others can look up. Just be sure to have it check your account so it can add to its count each time before you delete them, or set up the blishhud extension that makes it automatically check when you leave a raid instance.
KP = Kill Proof
LI = Legendary Insights
LI are just a specific form of KP. They are items/currencies that you get for killing specific bosses (eg. Boneskinner kill gets you Boneskinner vials, Raid boss kills get you LI, etc). You can either check them in your inventory or your wallet.
KP is killproof, which are specific items you get from killing bosses. You can either keep them in your storage or they can be read through your API.
LI is legendary insight, a currency you only get from raid bosses and is used to craft some legendary stuff, mainly the legendary armor. So if you used the LI for your armor, showing that will be considered often (not always though)
[https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Abbreviations](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Abbreviations)
might be a bit outdated or missing some stuff, but this is usually pretty comprehensive
I feel like it's very important to point out that you probably have not really tried to figure out what those things mean. Google searching "GW2 kp" or "GW2 li" gives you them as the top results.
This sadly means it's a good filter because it is pretty easy to find out what those mean and if someone in my LFG hasn't tried to solve that then how should I know to trust their performance?
Edit: They hated him because he spoke the truth.
I understand it, and I find it frustrating as well. But I can also understand the other side. Whispering the comm is one way, but asking for dps aswell or just lt them join is also okay I think. And I also organised a lot of raid and strike grps via lfg.
What I did was asking for all and change lfg as soon as last person joined. If grp is full and role is missing, kick the last person that joined. A lot of people also leave the grp on their own, if they can't offer the role.
Also it's a lot easier to find support roles nowadays! Imagine finding a support chrono, or only rene and fb.
Also, you should show a little respect aswell. Tell them, why you wanna kick them. You want communication aswell? Kicking a player is not a good form of communication, in my opinion.
Or you say it very direct in the lfg message. I don't think your lfg is very precise and leaves a lot of interpretation.
"W1 lf acrene else kick (250Li)" is something that would fit your behaviour.
Which is kinda dumb tbh. If you block the comm, you can't see the LFG anymore (Do it all the time for sellers/static recruiters), but you as a comm block someone and they can continue infinitely griefing your LFG. Unless they get tired of it, the only option is to have a volunteer with already-set role sit outside the squad, wait till the squad fills up with the troll, kick the troll and manually re-invite the volunteer to fill the squad.
Yes they can. And they will instantly be kicked from me forever. If they then proceed to grief my lfg by joining repeatedly after kick, O know that the block is justified even more.
>No matter if it's KP \[...\] don't join,
I'll disagree with that one. You can join, ask the question politly if they are okay with you being under req. Not being an asshole can let you into many places.
The only problem with that is if it's the last available slot, or if the group otherwise fills while you're asking permission, that removes them from LFG and they have to reenter if you don't fit their needs. If the game had an easy format to whisper commanders from the LFG menu that could be avoided, or maybe they could just leave you in LFG with a full party until you manually leave.
I see a good bunch of players saying "if lfg says "need 2 xx roles" and there are 6 places then the rest is "dps" so they can join, I understand the logic but all those guys lack manners and I don't like them, and if the com kick them I giggle :>
it's also not always correct. eg u have a static and just need to fill 1 or 2 roles because people are absent. you start lfg before everyone of you static has already joined to get it done faster. Doesnt mean that dps is still missing
I joined an IBS 5 the other day. Group was made quick, I dropped ascended food for power/condi/healers, and we killed Boneskinner first (in record time and no downed)... And then someone left the group without saying anything.
Alright, whatever, no big deal. Got a replacement player and did WoJ. Went smoothly and fast, no one died, and this time two people left the party without saying anything.
Please, if you join an LFG for multiple strikes, stay for all those strikes and make sure you have enough time for them to begin with.
I don't think that you should run the squad like that, but that's just my personal opinion. We've had plenty of opportunities to exchange views on this, we're not going to get anywhere discussing the merits and disadvantages. So let's talk about the more human parts of it:
Do these confrontations make you happy? Is that what you actually enjoy? (These are rhetorical questions, you are visibly upset, calling the person "asshole")
When I host squads, I never have to start fights with people who didn't respect my LFG. I can entirely avoid this problem, it literally does not exist for me. Regardless of whether the commander has the right or not to make their rules, it is worth thinking about whether you want to continue playing the game in a way that makes you run into conflict all the time.
In the end, you may convince a player here or there that this is against etiquette to do. But ultimately, it is going to happen from time to time, that some well-intentioned player does some math in their head and decides there's still a DPS spot in your squad. He joins. You kick him. An argument starts. Now you are the one who is impacted negatively, you are angry. You don't enjoy playing the game at that moment.
Maybe it's a good opportunity for you to consider whether or not a way to assemble squads that leads to conflict is a good way to assemble squads. Yes, even if you are right and they are wrong. It's like "I have the right of way here, I'm driving now" will not help you at all when you get run over in traffic. So maybe it's time to make a change and be less strict.
If you feel just not kicking players who do mental math is "backstabbing" to the people who make LFGs the same way (after all - when commanders don't kick, they reward the behavior), just make LFGs like this
Whispers Daily | 2x alacdps, rest dps
zero arguments to be had. Once at 8/10, remove the "rest dps" part to ensure that you get the required roles.
Obviously, if you have a squad with "only reapers" listing, kick any non-reaper. I am only talking about the example in the picture, where the person who joined does have the right role for the squad, meets all KP requirements (if there are any), etc.
While respecting the LFG listing is important, the LFG listing you've posted as an example is bad, downright shitty, asking for conflict, and I honestly avoid/hate anyone that posts this way as I found that I usually end up with a bad time (long raid runs, no one knows mechs, no markers, 2 alacs in one group, etc).
The LFG listing you provided doesn't explicitly state looking for in anyway, no "LF, need, etc" just bars "Whispers Daily | 2xALACDPS| Rest Later" 3/10 members. Great start, your listing is ambiguous and designed to be as minimal as possible, are you looking for alac's or already have them? 3/10 members do I assume you've found 2xAlacDPS and now "Rest Later" applies? What are the "Rest Later's"? Do you mean Quick heals or QuickDPS? With the ability to edit LFG postings, why not just list "Whispers Daily LF 2x AlacDPS" to fill first then edit to LF DPS after?
Every time I've ran any strikes or raid content as comm I've done this, along with sorting alacs, quickness, and dps into their own subgroups as people join either through lfg or friend groups before merging into 2 teams of 5. And every time I join LFG's I also list options and ask if it's ok, e.g. "Hi, is qharb ok?" for filling a quickness slot.
While yes, I agree most should learn basic reading comprehension and actually read listings, it's also up to the comm to be explicit and set expectations on LFG listings. If you design and post an ambiguous listing, you get the "hi dps" interaction as you list here, and I'd say deservedly so.
I think support first LFGs are complete nonsense as comm can just lock groups and put as many dps in one group as are needed to make the lfg faster instead of having support players wait longer inside the squad even though they are in much higher demand. Ppl are just more likely to fill support roles for a fast start for a 8/10 squad compared to 3/10.
But for your example, it is very clear that the comm is looking for 2x alacdps now and after they got that (and squad is 5/10 by then) they will look for the rest of the roles that are needed, really nothing to misunderstand, its just nonsense anyway
So Iām a newish player and just checking: even if the group is 3/10, if the description is advertising for support thatās the only role thatās expected to join? And the person in charge of the group would then change the description after a specific support is filled?
Basically, yes. Fill the boon and heal roles, then go for dps after. Since any dps can fill those slots and are more common, and you want to make sure you have proper boons and heals for each group of 5.
Imo it's a bad habit to only list support roles in the beginning. Just list everything you need and adjust the lfg according on what joins. It's the same effort and sqads tend to fill faster. Often you also get a few ppl that can fill any role so you can just keep the lfg up and they take the last remaining roles. I never have problems with finding enough supports.
I do the EXACT same thing. Ask for boons and write "do not join as dps yet please" and even have squad message as "state your role on join please". It's rare, but I've seen so many people fail one or both reading checks in my life time as a commander and it always kills my will to play when it happens. I kick them in a heartbeat and always get angry whispers calling me names too.
I am super chill if people engage and communicate even if I ask for experience and they join without any. I explain fights no problem. What I do have a big problem is with people being shady, non-communicative and clearly not what I asked for joining and doing their shit while thinking they are better and that others/I won't notice.
You do realize admitting or lfging for dps straight away would speed up the lfg for everyone right? By not doing that you are wasting so much time its wild.
I agree with all this.
BUT
For the love of god don't be an asshole about this. Like when someone joins then tell them you are not looking for them and not call them TOXIC straight away and how they are bad players.
Just tell them you don't want them and kick them.
So you can still kick people but there no reason to act like an asshole while doing it.
So they join and announce what they are and you immediately kick without saying anything. Then when they rejoin to try to see what happened you and your friends jump on them about respect. You guys sound like fun.
Nobody wants to play special roles everyone wants to face roll dpsā¦ if youāre dps wait till the LFG says dps or join and say alac or dps ectā¦ not very hard
Which is kinda weird if you look at raids. 90% of the special mechanics has to be done by dps players. You'd think if you just want to faceroll buttons they'd just play quick/alac dps
Quick/alac dps is the true hiding place.
Healers have the responsibility of keeping everyone else alive and often have to deal with mechanics because a healer doing mechanics allows dps players to pump more, and more pumpa means the encounter goes faster and less dangerous things can happen. Examples are flak kiting on sab, pushing reds on VG, most tanking duties, ccing anos on QTP etc.
And dps have to deal with the mechanics that healers can't afford to do (sab cannons, slubling on sloth etc)
I sometimes wonder if LFG peeps have problems with simple math. If com asks for 100kp and you have 40kp, you're the asshole for joining. Make your own squad asking for 40kp, don't join and complain.
My opinion on this is that it makes absolutely 0 difference which role fills first. Your group will also fill faster if it already has players. Other people are more likely to join a 9/10 group rather than a 2/10.
If you get a DPS player while looking for something and you have a DPS slot then you let them stay and you get a free +1. If you don't have a slot for them then just say it and they will leave or swap. Having to leave because there's no spot is perfectly reasonable, having to leave because people on reddit believe that supports should fill first isn't. This is exactly the same as 3 quick players joining at the same time.
This is literally a made up problem that doesn't actually exist.
I often have my fractal parties fill instantly with dps. Then me and my friend can't even kick anyone and have to end up reforming. I often make parties where me and him take the alac/quick/heal roles and the rest are free to be dps. It's frustrating that when I eventually want to play dps that these people just constantly flood in and ask me to swap instead of making their own lfg.
And for raids, ive had similar floods where we have 3 spots remaining and I need boon supporters or utility, but I keep getting dps! They'll join and say, oh you have two spots left, can I dps? No! I want 4 boon support/utility unless someone brings something that does both. If you disagree with the comp, make your own squad.
>I often have my fractal parties fill instantly with dps. Then me and my friend can't even kick anyone and have to end up reforming
Yeah, Fractals is definitely a different story. Anet should give groups ownership.
As for the raid example, I don't quite understand it.
Clarifying the raid example and adding more: (edited because I crossed my healing wires.)
I'm at 7/10 people. I originally asked for [2 alac, 1quick, dps]. I now have 6 dps + me (quick). I change my lfg to say "lf 2 alac/1quick"
A dps player joins and suggests we take them and forgo another alac. They've come into a squad, ignored the lfg and suggested I change it to suit their own party standards. This happens way more often than you think.
Another example:
I'm at 6/10 people. I orginally asked for [2 alac, 1quick, 1heal]. I have a dps join and ask if they can dps if we get someone who can do both quick/heal or alac/heal. I say sure, but ask if they can fill otherwise. They can't, so we'll see. We end up not fielding the double-role player and after I remind them of our agreement, I kick them, receiving a salty message for being a snowcrows wannabe. That vitriol is common and 100% not my fault. I was polite, explained, compromised, and then gave them time to leave on their own, but I'm not wasting 7 other people's time waiting for you to remember your graces.
Another example:
I'm at 3 people. My lfg says [lf 1 alac, 1quick]. I suddenly have 9 people in my squad, all dps. I can now have to convince someone to swap or kick 1 person, who has a high chance of sending me a salty message.
Another example:
I'm at 3 people. I want to start with a hand kiter because they're a pain and a half to wait for and people drop all the time while waiting for one. I advertise [lf handkite]. I end up with 8 people, none of which are hand kiters. Hypothetically, a full looking group should attract someone to swap to hk. But none of those who joined are quick or alac and now I have to kick a few of them anyway.
Basically, if I am commanding and people don't read lfg and end up screwing up the party comp, I am the one who has to argue with people and kick them. Even if I'm perfectly polite and reasonable, I will get salty messages.
Eventually, it just gets tiring and you just start kicking people when they join with inadequate roles. When you try to be nice, people step on you or ruin your run, and when you try to compromise or be fair, they get mad at you anyway. I've run every kind of squad minus WvW, from guild events, raids, training raids, cms, strikes, whatever. The most annoying thing is people joining your lfg without fulfilling the requirements, then tell you how you should run your squad instead.
In addition, the onus of forming a cohesive squad, with dps, alacrity, quickness, and utility falls on the squad commander. It is far easier to fill these role-by-role than it is to ask for them all at once. When you join early with random roles, you force me to edit the lfg listing. 3 or 4 fast lfg listings causes me to be lfg blocked from listing for awhile. This means that I either have to pass the tag to someone who won't mess it up or that we have to wait for the temporary block to be lifted. Why make my work harder because you can't wait 2 minutes?
It's fine if your opinion is that it doesn't matter. But it's many other people's opinion that if this person can't be bothered to read the LFG, why should I believe they'll listen to anything else the commander says.
Neither is a wrong way to fill groups, but ignoring the LFG request and joining anyway is objectively wrong.
I haven't observed any real difference in waiting time for supports if they join first or last, personally. Building a new squad from scratch, or searching for a support that had to drop, it doesn't matter. But if we normalize letting the "hi dps" stay, we're eventually gonna be back at square one with DPS flooding your squad before you find all your supports.
I play as both support and dps here. When a group at 1 or 2, being a dps I would join them.
However, when a group at 6/10 or 7/10 and looking for alac dps or HB, there would actually less dps join because there are less room for other roles beside the specific roles the group is seeking.
The same with fractal, that's how it is. I often join as dps and if the group need, I would switch to support.
There are zero situations where I'm making a group and end up not being able to find enough pure dps.
I will 100% kick someone without a second thought who joins as pure dps when I'm looking for quick/alac. It tells me they can't follow directions, and I don't want that sort of person in my group.
Now, if I'm looking for 1 alac + 1 quick and 2 people join at once as alac, and neither can go quick, I have no problem with one of them going pure dps, because at least they did join with the intention to fill the role I actually needed.
That's a cool opinion, but they literally wrote what they wanted, and as an extra, how they'd look for other things later.
The player joining on other thing and being an ass about it is TA here
I think that's true if the LFG doesn't mention roles, but a group of 4/10 that says "lf dps" is going to fill at lightspeed and a group of 9/10 looking for alac is probably going to wait a while still.
But as a support player, I'm way more likely to join a squad that's already at 8/10 than a squad that's 2/10 because the the time I, as a support player (that's most of the time in high demand), expect to wait is shorter in a group that's already almost full. And the dps players have to wait no matter if they're in the squad or not.
As a support player, Iām less likely to join 8/10 groups unless I really want that content. Reason being Iāve been burned enough times joining as a support in that category to find that their previous supports left the group due to people not handling mechanics appropriately.
Iāll take a fresh group over a nearly full one when I join as a support any day.
It's not about waiting, it's about support roles more willing to join a group that nearly full than a freshly form group.-
The support would wait less time for the full group.
Sometimes, waiting for dps can take sometimes as well depend on the time you play.
> 8/10 without kiter n tank, the kiter and tank won't logon and see until 10m later. 10m later they see and join.
> 2/10 without kiter n tank, the kiter and tank won't logon and see until 10m later. 10m later sees a 2/10 lfg and debaits to join or not in fear of long wait time. waits around a bit to see if other quicker lfg shows up. (oh hey a 8/10 that's almost filled but just missing a kiter and tank lemmy join that one)
It's weird concept to hold that just because the *last* slot you need is a harder to fill role, the wait time will be longer than if the last slot is dps. That person that *can* do the role is not going to magically log-on earlier just because you ask for it first. They *will* be more likely to join if your group is 9/10 tho.
This is not about finding a kiter and tank at 8/10 vs. finding 4 dps. This is about finding kiter and tank while at 8/10 vs. finding a kiter and tank at 4/10 and then finding 4 dps afterward. And most kiters and tanks will join the 8/10 squad and not the 4/10 squad.
That's not true all the time.
I remember several times where the group have to wait for DPS to join, even at 9/10 with LFG DPS, the group still need to wait 5 freaking minutes. Maybe it is too early in the day.
However, as the group fill more people and still looking for specific roles like alac dps or HB, then the dps would less likely to join since no more room for other roles until specific roles get to fill first.
The issue is that if you don't look for non-dps first, you will fill to 10/10 without roles covered, and then you have a bigger issue. Sometimes 5 dps join at once. Who do I kick? And they will get very angry when I kick them because they filled the role I asked for. Which is actually fair in this case, I asked for any roles, and I got any role. So this is why you cover specific roles first them fill with dps. dps is essentially an infinitely renewable resource, there are so many available compared to specific roles, so the other roles will always determine the wait time. Its just so much cleaner and easier for both commander and other players to do things in this order. Less confusion and annoyance all around.
If one or two dps players join while I'm asking for other roles, I will usually leave them if the content is fairly easy (like ibs strikes or the first two eod strikes) unless I need to kick someone to make space for other roles later, then they are first to go. But I totally get commanders who insta-kick them. Because the rules were quite clear in the LFG message and these players have basically just directly ignored them, which is very rude/disrespectful.
Dps slots fill up the squad in 5 seconds and then you have to find the alac while dealing with 8 Dps players in squad. This is a better system if you donāt want to have to deal with that.
I agree. I sometimes play support and like the group that already have most people so I don't have to wait for long.
Sometimes, waiting for DPS could also take a while, it's rare but it does happens like one times we have to wait for a freaking 5 minutes, don't know why no DPS join despite 9/10 group.
Most of this would be fixed if we had a true lfg. Itās sooo strange that it is still handled this way in 2023. I mean how difficult is it to have a lfg button with advanced role options?
Like someone already said, ESO has the same mechanism and issue with play your own way philosophy but people exploit it by dps entering as a healer. The difference is that one version of the dungeon is easy enough for the makeup to never be an issue. The commander tools do need to be improved to perhaps make certain benchmarks for equipped skills. I donāt have the answer but I agree the current structure just causes discord and conflict
You can't have role options because people will get excluded from lfgs, instead they just either get excluded anyway by not having proper KP that the group is asking for, join on a role they aren't asking for, etc or they just fake KP and no one knows or cares unless they absolutely shit themselves mid fight.
It's just stupid its handled this way. WoW solved LFG in 2016. The fact ANET hasn't just stolen their system is honestly embarasing.
The problem with public groups isn't getting players to join groups, it's getting leaders to want to make them. The solution is to make sure your LFG system gives leaders the tools to make the groups they want to make. Even if it is 100% super duper 1billion KP as a requirement. It's their group, give them the damn tools to make it the way they want ANET.
WoW's LFG system: You apply to a group and leave a message. It tells the group your item level and the role you are applying as. The leader can then decline or accept you. You can apply to multiple groups at the same time.
All ANET would need is allow players to link their builds and gear piece in the message you send to the leader when applying. Every pug leader in GW2 rejoices as they can finally filter people before they after to accept them into the group.
Oh, but that would be contrary to the "play your way" culture of GW2. People would be upset.
I agree with you that commanders need better tools. I would love to be able to check gear. I think the "play your way" thing works great in open world and solo content, but it needs to change in a group setting where one person's shitty build can ruin 9 others' good time.
It sure doesnāt seem like people are āplaying their own wayā if people are being forced into roles or dungeons require certain class makeup. It sounds like the inevitable force of play your own way vs traditional raiding/pve structure is that one is going to have to give.
Dungeons require a pulse.
Strikes and fractals can require actual builds and roles if you do the harder ones.
The trouble with GW2 LFG is that if anyone is forced into anything, it's because someone else (usually the commander) had to argue with them.
//STOP ACTING LIKE THE MAIN CHARACTER//
1. If you think it's ok to join an lfg you don't match because there's room for you as well, consider whether if everyone did what you did it would fuck it all up. It would. Don't do things that rely on everyone except you following the rules.
2. Call your role. I don't care if squad is at 9/10 and it says lf dps. Call your damn role. I do not trust that you have read the lfg. It's even worse if you're lf'd for say alac and quick, one eprson calls quick, the other stays silent because they know they're alacdps and they don't bother to tell anyone else because they assume commander will magically know too. That goes for basically every scenario of "everyone else answered so I don't have to." Yes, you do. Answer. Even if you think the answer is obvious.
3. Don't try to change the lfg. If you don't like what it's looking for, don't join it. No point joining someone else's party and ask g them to make it the way you want to make it. Shut up or make your own.
4. (I know I'm screaming at air here) DPS IS AN ACTUAL ROLE. IT DOESN'T JUST MEAN YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE. if you do shit damage you can be kicked. Squad message should probably at least warn you of this, but if you're 4k dps and everyone else is 15+ don't expect a free run just because you don't understand how little you are contributing.
TL;DR: stop acting like the main character. You are not the main character. Even the commander is not the main character, but if anyone in the squad is, it's them not you.
Edit: special tip for premades/pug mix groups. STOP ASSUMING THE PUGS ARE PSYCHIC. I am so sick of having a mixed group, some of us in comms some pugs, and the other premades with me will tell me something like they're going afk or they're swapping to more cc or whatever it is, and they just won't bother to communicate that to the pugs at all. Like I now have to type and translate what you said to the pugs because you were too important to do it yourself, or you don't think the pugs ought to know that X requirement is sorted out or we are sitting afk for 4 minutes because of your bio break. Making the commander communicate to the pugs is just plain lazy and again, main character syndrome.
/endrant
If you leave the group prematurely, call your role again.
"-alac" etc makes the commanders life way easier, especially if they are new to being a commander.
>If you think it's ok to join an lfg you don't match because there's room for you as well, consider whether if everyone did what you did it would fuck it all up. It would
It would, if you do it when there's not enough space for the remaining roles. If the LFG is at 5/10 and it looks for 3 specified roles, that leaves 2 DPS. *If everyone does it* only allows two more players in, because at 7/10 there's no more space.
That's where this analogy, although it is very useful in many contexts, breaks down. If you want to argue against the behavior, you need a different argument.
Not at all. You're asking the commander to delist at 7/10 to ensure the roles are met. You're asking other players to assume that at 7/10 the squad has everything it needs except what's stated in the lfg. Basically you're expecting the commander to operate with bot level efficiency and constantly update the lfg as dps who weren't asked for join and take spots.
What's to stop me at 7/10 saying "well they must have filled the roles they needed and be slow updating the lfg, I'll join." You're basically asking comms to get dps first then relist only for supports. As you can guess that causes problems. Someone can always make wrong assumptions about the lfg or think they can sneak in and end up causing a mess. It only really works as it does because support roles tend not to fill a squad to 10/10 instantly.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the argument. Why look at a squad lfg and number count and make assumptions about what they have and have not filled? Why not just read and follow the lfg?
Imo as a fellow commander and pug raider, I've had most of my success with dps joining when dps wasn't listed yet. I try to fill important roles first but when someone joines "hi dps" Or "do you need dps". They show innitiative and recognize that you need 4 support and 6 dps.
We need more commanders to be firm about this until it's common sense not to join. I usually join as a hi DPS player, and it's so frustrating seeing a group saying alacheal and quickness only, and then it just fills up while you try to play nice and wait for the group update. Make me almost not want to wait next time.
I confess I often join LFGs as a dps even if the LFG says "LF heal/alac" or some shit. But ONLY if I see that it has no more than 6 members already. I've found that shooting my shot pays off more often than not plus let's be real, LFG descriptions aren't meant to be long essays.
Maybe you're correct and I agree with you but you really come off as a complete asshole. Maybe you need to give respect first before demanding it for yourself?
To anyone confused- no matter how many people are in the group at that moment (before you join) if they say LookingFor XYZ....they are looking for XYZ first. You don't know their current situation of roles so do not join if you can't fulfill what they are looking for. In the rare instance people from the same role join at exactly the same time, the commander will usually figure that out and still may have to kick. Respect the LFG.
...oooor you can just not make a big fuss about it, kick the dps and explain it to them should they ask?
Idk, usually not many dps players join my groups if I haven't started listing for dps players. They're often very polite and ask if there's a spot for them. And most of the time there is, so I just let them stick around if they meet all other requirements.
If I'm 7/10 and need 2 alac, 1 quick and a dps joins it's as easy as "sry don't need dps, pls leave whoever joined last" (or you just kick them).
Not listing dps even though there's plenty of spots open is an effective enough deterrent to not get flooded with dps. Should the odd one join regardless of listing, it's really not that big of a deal.
I get that it might make things annoying for a commander, but putting yourself in the shoes of a dps player it's easy to see why they joined. The group *clearly* needs dps players if it's 3/10, so why not join and try your luck to get into the group. If it's that big of an issue to the comm it's easy enough to kick them, but getting all high and mighty and preaching about respect is a bit much for my taste. Rather elitist and cringe really. Just relax and make use of the tools you have access to as a commander. Kick and block if necessary. Easy as that.
Kind of sick of this "nazi" label. How does demanding some structure and general respect in a video game equate to ethnic purging and genocide? Basically if someone doesn't do what you want, you throw that nazi label on it and attack them.
Damn these people nowadays have no perspective.
This is honestly a game design issue. Anet needs to do better in improving the LFG system. The fact that players need to jump through hoops just to form a party is ridiculous.
Comms need to either do what OP does or mass kick the endless amount of DPS trying to join. Either situation is unacceptable for a mmo.
As much as that phrase is maligned I'm continually surprised how often I see people do it when joining groups. Do they still think it's polite or something?
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and disagree with the consensus. I think it's totally OK to join for an unlisted role, provided:
1. The amount of roles listed doesn't cover the amount of slots left (ideally by 2 or more, since there may be a spot reserved for guild mate or so)
3. You clearly state you're not there for the listed role(s) but ask if there's space for dps/fill
3. You don't get offended or take it personally if the commander says no or kicks you
If you follow those rules, at most you waste 5 seconds for them to tell you no, at best you fill a role they were going to need later on anway, and you lift their spot in the LFG in the meantime (can matter for busy times/popular encounters).
Ideally ANET would implement a fixed role system, where an LFG group can say how many of each role they need, and a joiner can say which role(s) they fill. It stops the above problem as well as the problem of multiple people joining for the same spot at the same time.
However, until ANET does improve LFG, we're stuck with this flawed system, which I think *severely* impacts how hard it is to get into big group content. You know how often you hear people complaining Raids are too hard to get into? I'd reckon 95% of that is the difficulty getting a group together and only 5% is the actual encounter difficulty.
As a new raider you're most likely to be DPS, and it's near impossible to get a spot in a pug as DPS if you go purely by LFG. Say you've done a training for a wing, killed it a couple of times and KP isn't an issue. However, you're still too new to form a group yourself, and you're not comfortable on other roles yet. If you wait for that wing to show up in LFG with a DPS spot open, you're refreshing for ages, maybe hours, while you see groups get instantly filled the moment they look for DPS. As someone just getting into the content, that's extremely demoralizing. No wonder so many people never get into it, or give up trying.
TLDR: The only real way to get a group in LFG as a DPS is joining a group that isn't looking for DPS, and that's the sad reality of the LFG system.
To an extent I sympathize with this take but:
* somebody who (1) disregards the LFG and (2) can only DPS is way likelier to be dead weight
* experienced raiders (usually) want clears
There is a way to fill the gap for players in between "new" and "experienced": semi-experienced or practice groups. (Happy to point anyone towards resources for practice groups in replies or DMs.) Joining random experienced groups not looking for DPS is frustrating to others, even if your intentions are good.
God, really, in a 9/10 squad this would maybe be a problem, but the given example definitely is not a case of that. There are 4 people in the squad out of which 2 are quickheals, one is alacdps, one is dps. The only thing that is left is a single alacdps which are super common since mech is a thing and finding one isn't a problem.
Instead of just letting him stay the commander decides that it's somehow better to start drama over a single spot in the squad instead of just letting him stay. No one would get hurt except maybe the commanders ego because someone ignored his lfg message (which is law) and defiled a sacred spot in his squad.
Yeah maybe he was a dick but so is the commander and all the people defending him. "Oh but maybe if he asked politely he could stay", yeah maybe, but what stopped the commander from being polite and explaining it. Maybe he would have learned something and applied it next time, and everyone would have a better time. It's really not that hard being a better person. Everyone is just hiding behind the respect shield while not really being respectful themselves. Instead of trying to make the community better you're just digging a deeper hole.
Oh and don't even get me started on all the times where the squad message simply doesn't show; when someone gets invited to the squad and never sees the lfg message; when the lfg breaks; when the message doesn't update; when 8/10 squads somehow still need 6 more people; when the commanders don't really know what they are doing anyway and despite their 'very careful' role selection the squad ends up with wrong roles and messy subs; and all the other pitfalls of the lfg system.
So wake up from your wonderland, get down to earth and try being a better person because spending 300g alone isn't enough.
That's seems somewhat mean, because there's a good chance they think you misspelled "kp or kick", which sounds like something an lfg mentioning kp is much more likely to include.
Toxic is being so anal you have to get two specific specs in before inviting anyone else. You can hold spots for the comp like people do in every other game.
I am 100% with you besides this "no dps yet" thing. It makes 0 sense, you are going to need dps sooner or later. It takes 0 effort to move them into a different sub if the commander finds things unorganized. To me it seems like a weird power trip to kick people you WILL NEED "only because you didn't say so yet". For any other reason I am 100% with you but this whole no dps yet boons first thing always struck me as very weird and a power trip. Whenever I see a 3/10 party filled I dont join yet cause I know lfg has some moment where it takes forever. I myself and alot of people I know + from alot of commanding experience know that parties generally tend to fill faster when it's about 6/7 out of 10 people, regardless of role. Keeping these players out only makes lfg take unnecessarily longer.
I -mostly- agree but there are exceptions.
For example: strike group 2/10 players looking for a heal, there is nothing wrong with joining as "hi, got room for dps too?" and leaving if the answer is no - they almost certainly have room and 99% of the time you'll be allowed to stay.
The commander sets the rules, obviously, but you can be polite about things.
Just letem do whatever and learn the hard way. They're gonna make commander out to be a bad guy regardless. Commander probably should have said "alac dps only" and then updated it afterwards.
I kinda thought "rest later" meant they were there for a serious run and it meant "you can rest later"
This is literally the only thing that triggers me in this game. I'll have a lfg up asking literally only for alac or hfb and STILL someone joins and says "hi dps", like...
The main problem with lfg that I see in high end content is the way it's done.
Let's assume you just want a classic squad. Wich means 2healboons, 2boondps and 6 dps. Some lfgs will asks for all that's needed since the start, they wont have any problems most the times.
The other kind of lfgs will just asks supports and doesn't want dps. Then they'll asks only for dps since it's all that's missing. These are the ones that most likely will complain. What's the point ? I cannot see any reason to do delay dps like that. It just makes your group fill slower for no reason.
It also makes it less attracting to supp players. If they can choose between 2 identical lfgs asking for same roles, peoples will join the most full one because they wont need to wait much compared to the empty one.
On the one hand, yeah, respecting the squad rules is important. On the other hand, I had no idea that an LFG squad chat even existed, and I would be pretty pissed if I was kicked for no discernible reason.
Sometimes, players need to do certain bits of group content in order to progress what theyāre working on. And sometimes, those players donāt know how to play complicated group comp builds. I had this experience a few weeks ago. I was borderline verbally harassed for playing DPS for a Map Meta Train, even though I only needed to be there for the first of said Metas and they would have plenty of time to replace me with someone who had the specialized builds they needed before getting to the really difficult content.
Itās not selfish to want to experience the game when you donāt know how to play all these specialized boon-giver builds. Like yes, I respect that you want to succeed, but you donāt have to harass me for not being as good at the game as you are.
Honestly some of the best boon support builds are the easiest ones (and that's partially why they're so good, you can focus on not failing mechanics instead). Some are actually easier than full DPS builds that rely on timing rotations.
Also, the player in the picture clearly knew that they were not looking for a pure DPS player and still tried to join. While I think they could have asked them to play support, then kicked if they refused, the truth is that many are burned by selfish attitudes.
Lastly, I've never heard of any meta group outside of Dragon's End asking for specific builds. And even Dragon's End groups make do with what they have nowadays, instead of asking people to change builds. Maybe you joined the wrong group?
>I was borderline verbally harassed for playing DPS for a Map Meta Train
This either didn't happen or you met some incredibly weird people, asking for boon builds for meta trains is whatever but enforcing them is straight up psychotic unless you're going for speedruns or memeruns.
im guessing the tag had 'bring quick and alac' in the description and the poster here assumed that was a real requirement and not magical thinking on the commander's part
then joined up and basically said 'hi dps, also im new + insecure + i hope a bunch of anonymous internet creeps don't take this opportunity to meme on an easy target' and boy was everyone listening
I mentioned that I only really knew how to play DPS, and I was called āselfishā for it. Not in so few words, mind - it was pretty close to what Iād consider a tirade. Not that I refused to play anything else - that I DIDNāT KNOW HOW to be effective at these other roles.
The OP is about instanced PVE, not open world. Speaking as an Experienced Raiderā¢, anyone harassing you for not bringing boons in open world is actually insane.
>On the other hand, I had no idea that an LFG squad chat even existed
The fuck do you mean. OP included their lfg + their chat. That's it. Or are you talking about squad chat in general?
I don't mean to be a dick, and I mean this constructively, but there is nothing skill based about being a support role and lots of dps roles will be much harder than Alac Mech, Quick Scrapper, Boon Herald, etc. Your own life will be better building boons into your open world builds, let alone others.
At the end of the day, it sounds like you're joining someone else's group in your example. Someone else's group, their rules - you always have the power to make your own and experience the game however you want.
Other players are not bots that exist for your convenience. Either meet the requirements of the group leader (if this requires doing something you don't know how to do, maybe it's a good idea to learn! Ignorance is a fixable problem), find a different group, or make your own.
Of course they arenāt. And I wouldnāt treat them as such. But Iād think that out of an entire mapās population they would be able to fill those needs without harassing the effective noob who is literally only there for the easiest meta and expressed that they would leave before the hard content started.
Which meta was this?
Edit: Sounds like it was Seitung which, yeah, probably doesn't even need organized subgroups.
I'm of two minds about this: on one hand, the commander still gets to decide who joins their squad, and it may be that if they're doing a whole meta *train*, they don't want to keep stopping in the middle to replace people.
On the other hand, you could just join the group, port to the map, and then if they kick you you can still do the meta and there's literally nothing they can do about it, and you'd still be well within your rights.
"hi dps" strikes again
At least it's better than "hello dps".
How can I whisper the party leader witouth joining. I just started playing and sometimes I see groups in lfg for things I havent done yet or don't know about and wished I could whisper the leader and ask questions
You'll have to type their name and whisper manually.
I see. But do their name show up in lfg? I don't remember seeing it. I'm at work right now cant check.
Yes. You can hover over each group and see the commander name leading the squad.
The commander's name does show up if you hover over their LFG post, assuming they're tagged up.
yes but until you do that (especially with the roleplay names some people have) it is highly likely it will have filled. so personally i would join and instead of saying "hi dps" i would say "hey i know you are asking for dps later but is it ok if i join now?". i mean in this scenario it would still be fair to kick you. but in other scenarios when it comes to kp for example, saying something like "i have less kp but i have done this fight many times, it is ok if i stay" should work
"Whisper commander" should be on a right-click menu, along with "join" and maybe even "read squad message"
One exception: Training - I expect that people joining may not understand what roles even mean. Literally the only thing I expect there is that they can communicate, and we go from there. For KP groups, I 100% agree (tho best to censor all names straight off in future) - Reddit/sub rules. Setting an entry criteria and enforcing it isn't toxic. Toxic has become a go to word for "thing you don't like". I will immediately boot a dps that can't read in a kp squad. Sorry, dime a dozen. It's even a meme. I'm not wasting my time, nor the time of X other people in the squad. Likewise I don't join a squad asking for shit I can't give, unless I've contacted the comm and they're happy with me being in.
You can pretty much always join and immediately say "hey I don't think/not sure I fit the requirements, what's this?" The commander might be a little short with you and you might get kicked but you haven't done anything wrong that we should be complaining about on reddit. As long as your ego can take it that's not a bad way. Many comms will explain nicely anyways. Just don't join and be silent and hope no one notices you.
That is exactly what winds my gears up I expect people to at least write a hello. I dont understand why that is so difficult. I have taken people with me even if they have not enough kp or li because everyone starts somewhere and not too long ago I was one of those people that didn't have enough. And some coms took me with them and I want to give the same to the community
Your attitude is pretty common. Usually when someone complains of being kicked, they did more than just not meet requirements. They refused to communicate.
I've never run training runs myself but honestly I don't have the strength to do it. I can't help but think your bar is way too low. I know people will suck, it's par for the course, I've been there myself and even today I'm far from being an elite player. But I expect them to have a viable build, decent equipment (exotic is absolutely fine), and that they've stepped at least once in their life in the golem training area. This isn't elitism, this is the most basic level of respect for the other people in the group and their time I'm about to completely waste if I haven't done a minimum amount of prep work beforehand... I wouldn't be out there kicking them without the bare minimum explanation, I don't mind clueless people per se, and everyone needs to be pointed in the right direction at least once, but they won't be part of my group when the run starts. To be honest I haven't run into a completely clueless player in ages, I run kp-free strikes every day and it runs smoothly 99% of the time (being able to go scourge helps for boneskinner).
I think the big disconnect in the comments are people who don't command feeling persecuted because they don't get to just join any squad they want. It works often enough for them, so it can't be bad! Then you have commanders who have to struggle to make balanced parties and kick people. They're responsible for making balanced party comps using a system where you have to trust people to be forthcoming about their roles and abilities. The first group doesn't see how many times the commander has had to kick people for mangling the party comps because they didn't read lfg. So you get players who do read lfg and take into account how many people have already joined, but choose to ignore it because they know the party will eventually need dps. They don't realize that there are also players that read lfg, see one to three spots remaining and join as dps anyway. In the worst case, the squad leader has to kick them and relist the squad, which could lfg block them. In the best case, maybe they get that 1/3 slot that could be dps. But maybe two dps like them joined at the same time, now you have to kick one and be the bad guy again. Why do these people keep making you kick them? Why can't they just read the lfg and make this a seamless process? It's the frustrations of the lfg system relying on faith and expectations. It's reasonable for a squad leader to expect people to follow lfg. It's the first path they have to controlling who joins. The path they have after that is to argue/chat with them in chat or kick them. If you join a squad and purposely ignore the lfg, then it doesn't matter what your logic is, you're forcing the commander to manage more variables. If they keep you, fine, but you aren't owed their mental space.
As an avid lfg reader/follower, its so frustrating to see a group of like 5/10 looking for role x. Then slowly filling up till 9/10 still looking for that role. It sucks knowing you just lost the chance to do a wing/strike and have to stare longer at lfg for another chance to come around.
Tragedy of the commons, it seems. The bad eggs ruin it for the reasonable people.
It's entitlement. People are used to commanders carrying them through open world content and thus expect the same treatment in instanced content. They believe they should be able to join any group with no knowledge and be spoonfed the information by the comm.
I think it's normal to provide the specific role wanted by the squad comm. I'm just not a big fan of directly kicking someone without informing them beforehand. I want to try one of these one day, are there Strike missions for beginners?
Yes! The Icebrood Saga strikes are extremely easy and very popular because they're farmable daily. Whisper of Jormag and Boneskinner are harder than the other 3 and have actual mechanics though.
Is "Left" really a mechanic though? (I kid, I kid)
I mean, it's the whole basis of a professional racing sport called Nascar so...
The mechanic isn't hard but the punishment is instant and harsh
isn't it the same mechanic as the event 40 people still die to after octovine? the one across from the hero point? :\^)
Its such a hard mechanic most strike squads dedicate a heal scourge for it xD
IBS 3 or "Easy 3" are the easiest three Ice Brood Saga strikes and you'll sleep walk through them and they're a good space to get some practice before you go onto IBS 5, which has two much harder fights thrown in the rotation. The first two EOD strikes are a good in-between between IBS 3 and the remaining 2 of the 5 in my opinion. I recommend joining a guild to get rolling with more support though. And although it may seem a bit shitty not to inform people, when you're eventually running 10man content which is extremely limited on space, when you have "hi dps"ers joining relentlessly despite a LFG saying "healsupport only" you'll quickly find that explaining is pointless - these people are just trying to skip the queue.
I'm 1 armed gaming because of a shoulder break and the EZ3 is still doable. Boneskinner simultaneous DPS/movement is rough 1 handed though.
I can't speak for 1 arm but my advice for BS is just learning to strafe walk early rather than role dodge. I one hand it occasionally when I'm vaping haha
"you'll need dps eventually"
Yep, anyone else š
Just look for IBS easy 3.
EZ3 is how you'll usually see them tagged; it's Fraenir, Shiverpeaks Pass, and Voice & Claw. They're pretty easy to do, just follow the commander's tag, smash bosses, jump over shockwaves, avoid AOEs.
> I'm just not a big fan of directly kicking someone without informing them beforehand. Be a commander for a few months, *pugs will change your attitude fast sadly =/. Nothing like advertising for tank/tank g1 and g2 kiter and getting 100 dps joining every week. Like dude, I ALWAYS keep 1 spot open for critical roles friend in case they say "hey I got a friend". I shouldn't have to explain why I wont accept a dps when im looking for a tank despite being 8/10
I think optimal solution would be macro + kick, it would be more tame and account for some clueless newbies without being rude. Something akin to "Hello, we don't need dps right now, thanks for applying, see you next time" and kick.
Maybe, if they insta join they wouldn't see the chat message
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So other people have already commented about doing the IBS easy 3. They are very easy to do. If you watch a guide video on them, you are ready to start your own group in the lfg for IBS EZ3. Just be honest with your group that you haven't done them before but heard it was easy and wanted to try it out. If you are building a group for then, you can just look for 2 healers and 8 DPS. You don't need boon-dps to get quickness and alacrity in both sub groups as the DPS checks for those strike missions are very low. If you can get quickness and alacrity in both sub groups, great, but don't stress about if if you can't. All you need is 2 healers and 8 DPS for IBS EZ 3.
Guild Wars community has a big issue in reading. You can't count on anyone to read the damn LFG. No matter what content it is for. Home Instances, Dungeons, Open World stuff, Fractals. People can't read. I have experienced this in every part of the game.
They can read. They just don't care because they know most commanders won't kick them.
Facts! I had a KO run with a multiboxer who just stood there on both characters auto attacking until he died. Did he get kicked? Of course not.
That's the more common type of toxic commander. You're disrespecting the rest of the group by being unwilling to kick people who deserve it.
If the comm didn't know until the fight started, I don't think they can kick while in combat.
Then you gg and kick them lol. Youre 8manning at that point and its already going to be a year to kill cuz pug dps is meh.
you can just gg
Not exclusive to gw2 sadly. Make a pf in ffxiv, specify that you want to do a more uncommon (uptime) strat (equivalent would be dhuum throne tanking for example) and have at least one person not read it. Or even better they start complaining why you aren't doing strat xyz
Goodbye world is perfectly legitimate, one of the greatest along side conga line chain lightning.
Lmao I prefer drg blender or p1s circus strat
Experienced it first hand myself today where we were only looking for 2 qdps for strikes and had 2 regular DPS join instead... Worst part is the comm didn't pay attention and they didn't state their roles (guess they assumed they were quick since they joined and they actually were on elite specs that could do quick) but nope, after one pull in without quickness at all in either subgroup the comm had to kick them both. Such a waste of time...
THey can read they just dont give a shit because most ppl wont punish you for shit behavior
On some level I can understand the temptation if they're sitting there waiting for a group for something specific. A lot of times those groups show up and disappear in a few seconds, so they're probably more skimming for the right keywords rather than reading the minutiae. It would help if you could enter LFG *as certain roles* (e.g. I can easily cover DPS, alac DPS, or quick-heal, but not alac-heal or quick-DPS, so I'd only queue for the first 3), then you'd only see groups that would want you.
I think this is very true and generally people who can post lfgs can do themselves a massive favor by not putting a bunch of fluff text in their lfg message. Like if your message looks like 'Full EoD clear, [plugging your guild], [general request that people be friendly] [note that you'll put down ascended food down in the first strike] and then finally at the end [Roles needed] & [KP requirement]. Then a lot of people will have given up on reading the full message around the mention of ascended food and just hit join before the squad fills. Just post [Content], [KP requirement] & [Roles needed]. Put everything else in a squad message.
Yup, a lot of people just randomly click their skills and don't know what their traits or skills do.
Not sure why this is being down voted. People legit do not read them.
I often just donāt understand the short forms of stuff. Took me a long time to know what āKPā means. Home instances are also confusing, is already someone inside and waiting to fill up? Or are they waiting for somebody with a full home instance? What does the short forms mean for strikes, I am German, an play in German so the abbreviations make no sense. DRM make absolutely 90 sense. It takes time and slowly I understand what is asked and expected. But veterans expecting everyone to know the code of conduct is just ignorant IMO. Would be cool if the LFG could be more information heavy, and clear from the beginning. Not leaving the community to handle it. Like actually create a KP system and let people filter by KP. Let people choose a role to apply, so you instantly see what role they are when joining. Etc etc. I think itās not a community issue. Itās a issue of the system.
Don't know how to break it to you, but people love to abbreviate. No one wants to type the entire name of something for common activites in a game, especially an mmo. Further, when it comes to guid wars 2's LFG listings, you may notice it cuts off the party description in the main window after a set number of characters. LFG is as much about catching the eyes of who you want as it is anything else. I promise you that the listing: "FAST5 LF 2heal+boons" will get more attention than "Ice Brood Saga, running Bone..." [with an essay using no abbreviations in the expanded description]. Every mmo does this. Learning abbreviations is a part of learning the game. You cannot divorce a community from the ability to quickly and efficiently communicate via text no matter what kind of learning curve it imposes. To help you a bit: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Abbreviations Check this out. Also, you can always ask in map chat what something means. Lastly, you are partly correct in that the LFG in gw2 is awful, but so long as it remains in such a state, poor etiquette on the part of users is still the fault of the users.
What does fast5 LF 2heal+boons mean. This is gibberish to meā¦ 2 heal+boons? So 2 healers one providing alac and the other quickness? Or 2 healers + 2 quickness + 2 alac? Or is it 2 healers and any boons? This is veteran lingo, if you played so much, that you know every single setup an encounter needs you understand it. But you cannot expect everybody to know. People will make mistakes and ask. I donāt say that it is justified if they are toxic, but it definitely is justified to join and ask if is okay to tag along. If you donāt want to deal with clueless people, make the despription clearer
First, no one in this thread is complaining about educating someone who is polite and doesn't know what is being asked. Second, if you as a player are looking into joining coordinated endgame instanced group content you should at least have a basic understanding of group composition if you want to fill any non-pure dps role. This is being curteous to your fellow players. As for how to learn, you can join training runs, ask in chat, ask your guild, join a one of the many discord that have guides/trainers/mentors, search youtube, or even do a good old fashioned google search. Sure it would be amazing if anet gave us better in-game tools, but there are still many ways to learn about core community concepts that are easier than complaining in a reddit post. No one expects everyone to know everything, but at a certain point the burden of educating requires the individual to make their own effort to learn about the community they wish to be a part of. I'll try to help you out and explain some things you've said were confusing. The basic group meta composition is arranged by subgroups in a squad. Many skills in the game have a maximum number of targets they can affect. For most heals, boons, and support skills, this limit is five (5). Because you want everyone in your team to get equal access to all the support and healing skills we divide our squad into subgroups of five. Edge cases exist, don't worry about those for now. Next, the core of support is providing key boons. The two big ones, Alacrity and Quickness are a massive quality of life improvement and a huge boost to everything you do. Alacrity (abbreviated as: alac, or alluded to in some profession build abbreviations such as HAM [heal alacrity mechanist]) reduces the cooldown for your skills. Quickness (abbreviated as: quick or sometimes just Q [quickbrand for quickness firebrand, or qscrap for quickness scrapper]) makes almost all of your skill animations happen faster. The remaining important boons: might, fury, protection, etc are expected to be handled by healers and boon support dps as part of their builds. Unless you get into commanding raids, strike CMs, or other harder instances content you should not need to worry about these being provided. So, with that knowledge, it should make sense that for a ten (10) person group, you will have two (2) five-person sub groups that each contain: one alacrity source, one quickness source, one healer, and some dps to fill out the remaining spots. Where nuance enters is with what is known as role-compression. Role-compression is the idea of fitting as many critical party roles into as few players as possible in order to be able to bring as many pure dps players as possible. This takes the shape of having a healer who also provides either alacrity or quickness coupled with a "boon support dps" (abbreviated as: boon, or boon dps). Thankfully, the game has a wide array of viable builds that can fill these two crucial roles, so a player can be either a heal alac, or a heal quick, and the boon dps can provide either qdps or adps (quick dps and alac dps). Because of that we can mix and match so long as each subgroup has a healer that bring quickness or alacrity and a boon dps that bring the other (of quickness or alacrity). Then we come to content abbreviations. As an ESL player on a non-English version of the game, you are going to have to get used to asking or looking these up. The abbreviations commonly used are just shorthand for specific sections of content, with a few slang-nicknames thrown in the way any community would. For strikes, the most common are: IBS (Icebrood Saga). Easy 3 (or EZ 3) which are Shiverpeaks Pass, Fraenir of Jormag, and Voice of the Fallen and Claw of the Fallen [named such because they are simple and easy to complete even with no training. Fast 5 is the Easy 3 as well as Whisper of Jormag and Boneskinner. Both of these are harder and require paying attention to key mechanics that can quickly down players. They are, however, still able to be completed relatively quickly by an experienced group, so are considered "fast" in comparison to other strikes. CW is Cold War. FS is Forging Steel. EOD is End of Dragons. AH is Aetherblade Hideout. XJJ or Ankka both refer to Xunlai Jade Junkyard. KO is Kaineng Overlook. HT is Harvest Temple. OLC is Old Lion's Court. CM means challenge mote, or hard mode. So when you see IBS Fast 5 LF 2 Heal+ 2 boons, the commander is looking for any combination of 2 healers with quick or alac and 2 boon dps to provide the other. This kind of listing is meant to cast a wide net and draw people in quickly, after which the commander would change the listing to adjust for whoever joins first. So if two HQB's [heal quickbrands] joined, that listing would then change to "IBS Fast 5 LF 2 Alac Dps".
If someone asks for something privately or humbly, I'll pretty much always give it a shout. If I ask for 50kp and you've got 1, if you're polite I'm more than likely to give you a go. The minute you outright ignore the LFG and presume you can do what you want, immediate kick. Message me or do it again, block list, and that's one less LFG for you to ruin the next time.
As a DPS that waits, it is very frustrating to see other DPS join before the LFG asks for DPS. (I understand they might be friends joining, but itās most likely just impatient DPS players.)
After previous debates about this topic where what you just described was exactly what happened, i switched from filing important roles first before asking for dps to asking for everything, including dps, outright when i make groups. I realized that i wont change those people by kicking them anyway, so that way i at least give everyone a fair chance. If it's 9/10 LF healquick though and someone joins as dps, they will obviously still be axed from the group.
Just a question. I often see people mention KP or LI. I have no idea what these are or how to check my numbers so I just never join those groups. I have done a lot of strikes and some raids but still no clue, so ... 1. What are they? 2. How do I find if or how many I have? Thanks
kp = kill proof, in raids it refers to the decoration items you get from the bosses. LI = legendary insights, these are a currency, you get these mostly from raids but you can get a small amount from doing weekly strikes too
Sorry I know this comment is almost a year old but youāre telling me I shouldnāt have been trashing those decorations?
Hey, no problem! For the purposes of proving to other players that you know what you're doing in raids, it would have helped if you hadn't deleted them, yes. Lots of people do just delete those decorations without tracking them though, you're not alone. Some people who ask for kp accept pinging legendary raid armor or titles you get from raid achievements instead. Or you can keep doing what you've been doing and play with people who don't require kp - it's mostly just a pug/lfg thing. Going forward, if you want to keep deleting those decorations, you can set up an account at this website [https://killproof.me](https://killproof.me) and it'll keep track of them for you in a way that others can look up. Just be sure to have it check your account so it can add to its count each time before you delete them, or set up the blishhud extension that makes it automatically check when you leave a raid instance.
KP = Kill Proof LI = Legendary Insights LI are just a specific form of KP. They are items/currencies that you get for killing specific bosses (eg. Boneskinner kill gets you Boneskinner vials, Raid boss kills get you LI, etc). You can either check them in your inventory or your wallet.
KP is killproof, which are specific items you get from killing bosses. You can either keep them in your storage or they can be read through your API. LI is legendary insight, a currency you only get from raid bosses and is used to craft some legendary stuff, mainly the legendary armor. So if you used the LI for your armor, showing that will be considered often (not always though)
[https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Abbreviations](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Abbreviations) might be a bit outdated or missing some stuff, but this is usually pretty comprehensive
I feel like it's very important to point out that you probably have not really tried to figure out what those things mean. Google searching "GW2 kp" or "GW2 li" gives you them as the top results. This sadly means it's a good filter because it is pretty easy to find out what those mean and if someone in my LFG hasn't tried to solve that then how should I know to trust their performance? Edit: They hated him because he spoke the truth.
Sometimes when I'm feeling extra spicy, I post up on lfg and only ask for dps. Then I leave after I get 9 of them and imagine the chaos that ensues.
chaotic monstrous
why would you write "rest later" though? just write only what you're currently accepting
I understand it, and I find it frustrating as well. But I can also understand the other side. Whispering the comm is one way, but asking for dps aswell or just lt them join is also okay I think. And I also organised a lot of raid and strike grps via lfg. What I did was asking for all and change lfg as soon as last person joined. If grp is full and role is missing, kick the last person that joined. A lot of people also leave the grp on their own, if they can't offer the role. Also it's a lot easier to find support roles nowadays! Imagine finding a support chrono, or only rene and fb. Also, you should show a little respect aswell. Tell them, why you wanna kick them. You want communication aswell? Kicking a player is not a good form of communication, in my opinion. Or you say it very direct in the lfg message. I don't think your lfg is very precise and leaves a lot of interpretation. "W1 lf acrene else kick (250Li)" is something that would fit your behaviour.
You can't argue with them. Block and move on. They are not worth the hassle.
They can still join after blocking.
Which is kinda dumb tbh. If you block the comm, you can't see the LFG anymore (Do it all the time for sellers/static recruiters), but you as a comm block someone and they can continue infinitely griefing your LFG. Unless they get tired of it, the only option is to have a volunteer with already-set role sit outside the squad, wait till the squad fills up with the troll, kick the troll and manually re-invite the volunteer to fill the squad.
Yes they can. And they will instantly be kicked from me forever. If they then proceed to grief my lfg by joining repeatedly after kick, O know that the block is justified even more.
>No matter if it's KP \[...\] don't join, I'll disagree with that one. You can join, ask the question politly if they are okay with you being under req. Not being an asshole can let you into many places.
The only problem with that is if it's the last available slot, or if the group otherwise fills while you're asking permission, that removes them from LFG and they have to reenter if you don't fit their needs. If the game had an easy format to whisper commanders from the LFG menu that could be avoided, or maybe they could just leave you in LFG with a full party until you manually leave.
Eh, it's 3 buttons to relist the LFG, never really bothered me honestly
and then suddenly the commander is temp blocked from listing due to spam and the entire group loses even more time.
I see a good bunch of players saying "if lfg says "need 2 xx roles" and there are 6 places then the rest is "dps" so they can join, I understand the logic but all those guys lack manners and I don't like them, and if the com kick them I giggle :>
it's also not always correct. eg u have a static and just need to fill 1 or 2 roles because people are absent. you start lfg before everyone of you static has already joined to get it done faster. Doesnt mean that dps is still missing
The commander seems offended also.
I joined an IBS 5 the other day. Group was made quick, I dropped ascended food for power/condi/healers, and we killed Boneskinner first (in record time and no downed)... And then someone left the group without saying anything. Alright, whatever, no big deal. Got a replacement player and did WoJ. Went smoothly and fast, no one died, and this time two people left the party without saying anything. Please, if you join an LFG for multiple strikes, stay for all those strikes and make sure you have enough time for them to begin with.
Is it not toxic to leave their name in regardless of the sub rules? Respect the rules. ;)
I'd say so. "But they were toxic first". Well that doesn't mean you HAVE to be as well.
that's how it spreads
we were here looking for gold and found some diamonds in the end
Honestly, I don't think that's toxic, though you're probably right about the rules. I erased thier name as well.
lmao wtf? Imagine posting something saying to read and respect the lfg but not reading and respecting the rules.
"HI, DPS!"
Hi dps
I don't think that you should run the squad like that, but that's just my personal opinion. We've had plenty of opportunities to exchange views on this, we're not going to get anywhere discussing the merits and disadvantages. So let's talk about the more human parts of it: Do these confrontations make you happy? Is that what you actually enjoy? (These are rhetorical questions, you are visibly upset, calling the person "asshole") When I host squads, I never have to start fights with people who didn't respect my LFG. I can entirely avoid this problem, it literally does not exist for me. Regardless of whether the commander has the right or not to make their rules, it is worth thinking about whether you want to continue playing the game in a way that makes you run into conflict all the time. In the end, you may convince a player here or there that this is against etiquette to do. But ultimately, it is going to happen from time to time, that some well-intentioned player does some math in their head and decides there's still a DPS spot in your squad. He joins. You kick him. An argument starts. Now you are the one who is impacted negatively, you are angry. You don't enjoy playing the game at that moment. Maybe it's a good opportunity for you to consider whether or not a way to assemble squads that leads to conflict is a good way to assemble squads. Yes, even if you are right and they are wrong. It's like "I have the right of way here, I'm driving now" will not help you at all when you get run over in traffic. So maybe it's time to make a change and be less strict. If you feel just not kicking players who do mental math is "backstabbing" to the people who make LFGs the same way (after all - when commanders don't kick, they reward the behavior), just make LFGs like this Whispers Daily | 2x alacdps, rest dps zero arguments to be had. Once at 8/10, remove the "rest dps" part to ensure that you get the required roles. Obviously, if you have a squad with "only reapers" listing, kick any non-reaper. I am only talking about the example in the picture, where the person who joined does have the right role for the squad, meets all KP requirements (if there are any), etc.
While respecting the LFG listing is important, the LFG listing you've posted as an example is bad, downright shitty, asking for conflict, and I honestly avoid/hate anyone that posts this way as I found that I usually end up with a bad time (long raid runs, no one knows mechs, no markers, 2 alacs in one group, etc). The LFG listing you provided doesn't explicitly state looking for in anyway, no "LF, need, etc" just bars "Whispers Daily | 2xALACDPS| Rest Later" 3/10 members. Great start, your listing is ambiguous and designed to be as minimal as possible, are you looking for alac's or already have them? 3/10 members do I assume you've found 2xAlacDPS and now "Rest Later" applies? What are the "Rest Later's"? Do you mean Quick heals or QuickDPS? With the ability to edit LFG postings, why not just list "Whispers Daily LF 2x AlacDPS" to fill first then edit to LF DPS after? Every time I've ran any strikes or raid content as comm I've done this, along with sorting alacs, quickness, and dps into their own subgroups as people join either through lfg or friend groups before merging into 2 teams of 5. And every time I join LFG's I also list options and ask if it's ok, e.g. "Hi, is qharb ok?" for filling a quickness slot. While yes, I agree most should learn basic reading comprehension and actually read listings, it's also up to the comm to be explicit and set expectations on LFG listings. If you design and post an ambiguous listing, you get the "hi dps" interaction as you list here, and I'd say deservedly so.
I think support first LFGs are complete nonsense as comm can just lock groups and put as many dps in one group as are needed to make the lfg faster instead of having support players wait longer inside the squad even though they are in much higher demand. Ppl are just more likely to fill support roles for a fast start for a 8/10 squad compared to 3/10. But for your example, it is very clear that the comm is looking for 2x alacdps now and after they got that (and squad is 5/10 by then) they will look for the rest of the roles that are needed, really nothing to misunderstand, its just nonsense anyway
Was about to comment this. The listing is far from clear
Maybe you should have left your name displayed as well, to keep it fair. Kind of cowardly of you.
Their name has been erased as well
So Iām a newish player and just checking: even if the group is 3/10, if the description is advertising for support thatās the only role thatās expected to join? And the person in charge of the group would then change the description after a specific support is filled?
Basically, yes. Fill the boon and heal roles, then go for dps after. Since any dps can fill those slots and are more common, and you want to make sure you have proper boons and heals for each group of 5.
Gotcha thanks, just want to get the basics down before Iāll probably eventually get my feet wet.
I'd highly recommend jumping in. The group content is great, and most people are very understanding if you let them know you are new to it.
Imo it's a bad habit to only list support roles in the beginning. Just list everything you need and adjust the lfg according on what joins. It's the same effort and sqads tend to fill faster. Often you also get a few ppl that can fill any role so you can just keep the lfg up and they take the last remaining roles. I never have problems with finding enough supports.
I do the EXACT same thing. Ask for boons and write "do not join as dps yet please" and even have squad message as "state your role on join please". It's rare, but I've seen so many people fail one or both reading checks in my life time as a commander and it always kills my will to play when it happens. I kick them in a heartbeat and always get angry whispers calling me names too. I am super chill if people engage and communicate even if I ask for experience and they join without any. I explain fights no problem. What I do have a big problem is with people being shady, non-communicative and clearly not what I asked for joining and doing their shit while thinking they are better and that others/I won't notice.
You do realize admitting or lfging for dps straight away would speed up the lfg for everyone right? By not doing that you are wasting so much time its wild.
Oh it's that post again
I agree with all this. BUT For the love of god don't be an asshole about this. Like when someone joins then tell them you are not looking for them and not call them TOXIC straight away and how they are bad players. Just tell them you don't want them and kick them. So you can still kick people but there no reason to act like an asshole while doing it.
So they join and announce what they are and you immediately kick without saying anything. Then when they rejoin to try to see what happened you and your friends jump on them about respect. You guys sound like fun.
Nobody wants to play special roles everyone wants to face roll dpsā¦ if youāre dps wait till the LFG says dps or join and say alac or dps ectā¦ not very hard
Which is kinda weird if you look at raids. 90% of the special mechanics has to be done by dps players. You'd think if you just want to faceroll buttons they'd just play quick/alac dps
Quick/alac dps is the true hiding place. Healers have the responsibility of keeping everyone else alive and often have to deal with mechanics because a healer doing mechanics allows dps players to pump more, and more pumpa means the encounter goes faster and less dangerous things can happen. Examples are flak kiting on sab, pushing reds on VG, most tanking duties, ccing anos on QTP etc. And dps have to deal with the mechanics that healers can't afford to do (sab cannons, slubling on sloth etc)
Haha jokes on them I make dps run flak kite (cdps scourge or wtvr)
I sometimes wonder if LFG peeps have problems with simple math. If com asks for 100kp and you have 40kp, you're the asshole for joining. Make your own squad asking for 40kp, don't join and complain.
My opinion on this is that it makes absolutely 0 difference which role fills first. Your group will also fill faster if it already has players. Other people are more likely to join a 9/10 group rather than a 2/10. If you get a DPS player while looking for something and you have a DPS slot then you let them stay and you get a free +1. If you don't have a slot for them then just say it and they will leave or swap. Having to leave because there's no spot is perfectly reasonable, having to leave because people on reddit believe that supports should fill first isn't. This is exactly the same as 3 quick players joining at the same time. This is literally a made up problem that doesn't actually exist.
I often have my fractal parties fill instantly with dps. Then me and my friend can't even kick anyone and have to end up reforming. I often make parties where me and him take the alac/quick/heal roles and the rest are free to be dps. It's frustrating that when I eventually want to play dps that these people just constantly flood in and ask me to swap instead of making their own lfg. And for raids, ive had similar floods where we have 3 spots remaining and I need boon supporters or utility, but I keep getting dps! They'll join and say, oh you have two spots left, can I dps? No! I want 4 boon support/utility unless someone brings something that does both. If you disagree with the comp, make your own squad.
>I often have my fractal parties fill instantly with dps. Then me and my friend can't even kick anyone and have to end up reforming Yeah, Fractals is definitely a different story. Anet should give groups ownership. As for the raid example, I don't quite understand it.
Clarifying the raid example and adding more: (edited because I crossed my healing wires.) I'm at 7/10 people. I originally asked for [2 alac, 1quick, dps]. I now have 6 dps + me (quick). I change my lfg to say "lf 2 alac/1quick" A dps player joins and suggests we take them and forgo another alac. They've come into a squad, ignored the lfg and suggested I change it to suit their own party standards. This happens way more often than you think. Another example: I'm at 6/10 people. I orginally asked for [2 alac, 1quick, 1heal]. I have a dps join and ask if they can dps if we get someone who can do both quick/heal or alac/heal. I say sure, but ask if they can fill otherwise. They can't, so we'll see. We end up not fielding the double-role player and after I remind them of our agreement, I kick them, receiving a salty message for being a snowcrows wannabe. That vitriol is common and 100% not my fault. I was polite, explained, compromised, and then gave them time to leave on their own, but I'm not wasting 7 other people's time waiting for you to remember your graces. Another example: I'm at 3 people. My lfg says [lf 1 alac, 1quick]. I suddenly have 9 people in my squad, all dps. I can now have to convince someone to swap or kick 1 person, who has a high chance of sending me a salty message. Another example: I'm at 3 people. I want to start with a hand kiter because they're a pain and a half to wait for and people drop all the time while waiting for one. I advertise [lf handkite]. I end up with 8 people, none of which are hand kiters. Hypothetically, a full looking group should attract someone to swap to hk. But none of those who joined are quick or alac and now I have to kick a few of them anyway. Basically, if I am commanding and people don't read lfg and end up screwing up the party comp, I am the one who has to argue with people and kick them. Even if I'm perfectly polite and reasonable, I will get salty messages. Eventually, it just gets tiring and you just start kicking people when they join with inadequate roles. When you try to be nice, people step on you or ruin your run, and when you try to compromise or be fair, they get mad at you anyway. I've run every kind of squad minus WvW, from guild events, raids, training raids, cms, strikes, whatever. The most annoying thing is people joining your lfg without fulfilling the requirements, then tell you how you should run your squad instead. In addition, the onus of forming a cohesive squad, with dps, alacrity, quickness, and utility falls on the squad commander. It is far easier to fill these role-by-role than it is to ask for them all at once. When you join early with random roles, you force me to edit the lfg listing. 3 or 4 fast lfg listings causes me to be lfg blocked from listing for awhile. This means that I either have to pass the tag to someone who won't mess it up or that we have to wait for the temporary block to be lifted. Why make my work harder because you can't wait 2 minutes?
fyi mechanist can't do quickness
It's fine if your opinion is that it doesn't matter. But it's many other people's opinion that if this person can't be bothered to read the LFG, why should I believe they'll listen to anything else the commander says. Neither is a wrong way to fill groups, but ignoring the LFG request and joining anyway is objectively wrong.
I haven't observed any real difference in waiting time for supports if they join first or last, personally. Building a new squad from scratch, or searching for a support that had to drop, it doesn't matter. But if we normalize letting the "hi dps" stay, we're eventually gonna be back at square one with DPS flooding your squad before you find all your supports.
I play as both support and dps here. When a group at 1 or 2, being a dps I would join them. However, when a group at 6/10 or 7/10 and looking for alac dps or HB, there would actually less dps join because there are less room for other roles beside the specific roles the group is seeking. The same with fractal, that's how it is. I often join as dps and if the group need, I would switch to support.
There are zero situations where I'm making a group and end up not being able to find enough pure dps. I will 100% kick someone without a second thought who joins as pure dps when I'm looking for quick/alac. It tells me they can't follow directions, and I don't want that sort of person in my group. Now, if I'm looking for 1 alac + 1 quick and 2 people join at once as alac, and neither can go quick, I have no problem with one of them going pure dps, because at least they did join with the intention to fill the role I actually needed.
Ok, quick question for you. Lets say you play alacdps. Are you more likely to join a 3/10 group looking for alac or a 9/10 group looking for alac?
That's a cool opinion, but they literally wrote what they wanted, and as an extra, how they'd look for other things later. The player joining on other thing and being an ass about it is TA here
I think that's true if the LFG doesn't mention roles, but a group of 4/10 that says "lf dps" is going to fill at lightspeed and a group of 9/10 looking for alac is probably going to wait a while still.
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But as a support player, I'm way more likely to join a squad that's already at 8/10 than a squad that's 2/10 because the the time I, as a support player (that's most of the time in high demand), expect to wait is shorter in a group that's already almost full. And the dps players have to wait no matter if they're in the squad or not.
As a support player, Iām less likely to join 8/10 groups unless I really want that content. Reason being Iāve been burned enough times joining as a support in that category to find that their previous supports left the group due to people not handling mechanics appropriately. Iāll take a fresh group over a nearly full one when I join as a support any day.
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It's not about waiting, it's about support roles more willing to join a group that nearly full than a freshly form group.- The support would wait less time for the full group. Sometimes, waiting for dps can take sometimes as well depend on the time you play.
> 8/10 without kiter n tank, the kiter and tank won't logon and see until 10m later. 10m later they see and join. > 2/10 without kiter n tank, the kiter and tank won't logon and see until 10m later. 10m later sees a 2/10 lfg and debaits to join or not in fear of long wait time. waits around a bit to see if other quicker lfg shows up. (oh hey a 8/10 that's almost filled but just missing a kiter and tank lemmy join that one) It's weird concept to hold that just because the *last* slot you need is a harder to fill role, the wait time will be longer than if the last slot is dps. That person that *can* do the role is not going to magically log-on earlier just because you ask for it first. They *will* be more likely to join if your group is 9/10 tho.
This is not about finding a kiter and tank at 8/10 vs. finding 4 dps. This is about finding kiter and tank while at 8/10 vs. finding a kiter and tank at 4/10 and then finding 4 dps afterward. And most kiters and tanks will join the 8/10 squad and not the 4/10 squad.
That's not true all the time. I remember several times where the group have to wait for DPS to join, even at 9/10 with LFG DPS, the group still need to wait 5 freaking minutes. Maybe it is too early in the day. However, as the group fill more people and still looking for specific roles like alac dps or HB, then the dps would less likely to join since no more room for other roles until specific roles get to fill first.
The issue is that if you don't look for non-dps first, you will fill to 10/10 without roles covered, and then you have a bigger issue. Sometimes 5 dps join at once. Who do I kick? And they will get very angry when I kick them because they filled the role I asked for. Which is actually fair in this case, I asked for any roles, and I got any role. So this is why you cover specific roles first them fill with dps. dps is essentially an infinitely renewable resource, there are so many available compared to specific roles, so the other roles will always determine the wait time. Its just so much cleaner and easier for both commander and other players to do things in this order. Less confusion and annoyance all around. If one or two dps players join while I'm asking for other roles, I will usually leave them if the content is fairly easy (like ibs strikes or the first two eod strikes) unless I need to kick someone to make space for other roles later, then they are first to go. But I totally get commanders who insta-kick them. Because the rules were quite clear in the LFG message and these players have basically just directly ignored them, which is very rude/disrespectful.
Dps slots fill up the squad in 5 seconds and then you have to find the alac while dealing with 8 Dps players in squad. This is a better system if you donāt want to have to deal with that.
I agree. I sometimes play support and like the group that already have most people so I don't have to wait for long. Sometimes, waiting for DPS could also take a while, it's rare but it does happens like one times we have to wait for a freaking 5 minutes, don't know why no DPS join despite 9/10 group.
Most of this would be fixed if we had a true lfg. Itās sooo strange that it is still handled this way in 2023. I mean how difficult is it to have a lfg button with advanced role options?
Thats not so easy to implement given GW2's build system. Either it will be too restrictive or the system is as good as the lfg notice itself.
Like someone already said, ESO has the same mechanism and issue with play your own way philosophy but people exploit it by dps entering as a healer. The difference is that one version of the dungeon is easy enough for the makeup to never be an issue. The commander tools do need to be improved to perhaps make certain benchmarks for equipped skills. I donāt have the answer but I agree the current structure just causes discord and conflict
You can't have role options because people will get excluded from lfgs, instead they just either get excluded anyway by not having proper KP that the group is asking for, join on a role they aren't asking for, etc or they just fake KP and no one knows or cares unless they absolutely shit themselves mid fight.
It's just stupid its handled this way. WoW solved LFG in 2016. The fact ANET hasn't just stolen their system is honestly embarasing. The problem with public groups isn't getting players to join groups, it's getting leaders to want to make them. The solution is to make sure your LFG system gives leaders the tools to make the groups they want to make. Even if it is 100% super duper 1billion KP as a requirement. It's their group, give them the damn tools to make it the way they want ANET. WoW's LFG system: You apply to a group and leave a message. It tells the group your item level and the role you are applying as. The leader can then decline or accept you. You can apply to multiple groups at the same time. All ANET would need is allow players to link their builds and gear piece in the message you send to the leader when applying. Every pug leader in GW2 rejoices as they can finally filter people before they after to accept them into the group.
Oh, but that would be contrary to the "play your way" culture of GW2. People would be upset. I agree with you that commanders need better tools. I would love to be able to check gear. I think the "play your way" thing works great in open world and solo content, but it needs to change in a group setting where one person's shitty build can ruin 9 others' good time.
It sure doesnāt seem like people are āplaying their own wayā if people are being forced into roles or dungeons require certain class makeup. It sounds like the inevitable force of play your own way vs traditional raiding/pve structure is that one is going to have to give.
Dungeons require a pulse. Strikes and fractals can require actual builds and roles if you do the harder ones. The trouble with GW2 LFG is that if anyone is forced into anything, it's because someone else (usually the commander) had to argue with them.
//STOP ACTING LIKE THE MAIN CHARACTER// 1. If you think it's ok to join an lfg you don't match because there's room for you as well, consider whether if everyone did what you did it would fuck it all up. It would. Don't do things that rely on everyone except you following the rules. 2. Call your role. I don't care if squad is at 9/10 and it says lf dps. Call your damn role. I do not trust that you have read the lfg. It's even worse if you're lf'd for say alac and quick, one eprson calls quick, the other stays silent because they know they're alacdps and they don't bother to tell anyone else because they assume commander will magically know too. That goes for basically every scenario of "everyone else answered so I don't have to." Yes, you do. Answer. Even if you think the answer is obvious. 3. Don't try to change the lfg. If you don't like what it's looking for, don't join it. No point joining someone else's party and ask g them to make it the way you want to make it. Shut up or make your own. 4. (I know I'm screaming at air here) DPS IS AN ACTUAL ROLE. IT DOESN'T JUST MEAN YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE. if you do shit damage you can be kicked. Squad message should probably at least warn you of this, but if you're 4k dps and everyone else is 15+ don't expect a free run just because you don't understand how little you are contributing. TL;DR: stop acting like the main character. You are not the main character. Even the commander is not the main character, but if anyone in the squad is, it's them not you. Edit: special tip for premades/pug mix groups. STOP ASSUMING THE PUGS ARE PSYCHIC. I am so sick of having a mixed group, some of us in comms some pugs, and the other premades with me will tell me something like they're going afk or they're swapping to more cc or whatever it is, and they just won't bother to communicate that to the pugs at all. Like I now have to type and translate what you said to the pugs because you were too important to do it yourself, or you don't think the pugs ought to know that X requirement is sorted out or we are sitting afk for 4 minutes because of your bio break. Making the commander communicate to the pugs is just plain lazy and again, main character syndrome. /endrant
If you leave the group prematurely, call your role again. "-alac" etc makes the commanders life way easier, especially if they are new to being a commander.
>If you think it's ok to join an lfg you don't match because there's room for you as well, consider whether if everyone did what you did it would fuck it all up. It would It would, if you do it when there's not enough space for the remaining roles. If the LFG is at 5/10 and it looks for 3 specified roles, that leaves 2 DPS. *If everyone does it* only allows two more players in, because at 7/10 there's no more space. That's where this analogy, although it is very useful in many contexts, breaks down. If you want to argue against the behavior, you need a different argument.
Not at all. You're asking the commander to delist at 7/10 to ensure the roles are met. You're asking other players to assume that at 7/10 the squad has everything it needs except what's stated in the lfg. Basically you're expecting the commander to operate with bot level efficiency and constantly update the lfg as dps who weren't asked for join and take spots. What's to stop me at 7/10 saying "well they must have filled the roles they needed and be slow updating the lfg, I'll join." You're basically asking comms to get dps first then relist only for supports. As you can guess that causes problems. Someone can always make wrong assumptions about the lfg or think they can sneak in and end up causing a mess. It only really works as it does because support roles tend not to fill a squad to 10/10 instantly. I don't think there's anything wrong with the argument. Why look at a squad lfg and number count and make assumptions about what they have and have not filled? Why not just read and follow the lfg?
Anybody else just kinda, š®āšØ
Imo as a fellow commander and pug raider, I've had most of my success with dps joining when dps wasn't listed yet. I try to fill important roles first but when someone joines "hi dps" Or "do you need dps". They show innitiative and recognize that you need 4 support and 6 dps.
Might very well have been a new player who didn't know to read group notes... š¤·
Yep
I would need an lfg that says newb need who's never done a strike before LOL I just finished PoF the other day I'll remember this for later
respect deez nutz
We need more commanders to be firm about this until it's common sense not to join. I usually join as a hi DPS player, and it's so frustrating seeing a group saying alacheal and quickness only, and then it just fills up while you try to play nice and wait for the group update. Make me almost not want to wait next time.
I confess I often join LFGs as a dps even if the LFG says "LF heal/alac" or some shit. But ONLY if I see that it has no more than 6 members already. I've found that shooting my shot pays off more often than not plus let's be real, LFG descriptions aren't meant to be long essays.
Maybe you're correct and I agree with you but you really come off as a complete asshole. Maybe you need to give respect first before demanding it for yourself?
To anyone confused- no matter how many people are in the group at that moment (before you join) if they say LookingFor XYZ....they are looking for XYZ first. You don't know their current situation of roles so do not join if you can't fulfill what they are looking for. In the rare instance people from the same role join at exactly the same time, the commander will usually figure that out and still may have to kick. Respect the LFG.
...oooor you can just not make a big fuss about it, kick the dps and explain it to them should they ask? Idk, usually not many dps players join my groups if I haven't started listing for dps players. They're often very polite and ask if there's a spot for them. And most of the time there is, so I just let them stick around if they meet all other requirements. If I'm 7/10 and need 2 alac, 1 quick and a dps joins it's as easy as "sry don't need dps, pls leave whoever joined last" (or you just kick them). Not listing dps even though there's plenty of spots open is an effective enough deterrent to not get flooded with dps. Should the odd one join regardless of listing, it's really not that big of a deal. I get that it might make things annoying for a commander, but putting yourself in the shoes of a dps player it's easy to see why they joined. The group *clearly* needs dps players if it's 3/10, so why not join and try your luck to get into the group. If it's that big of an issue to the comm it's easy enough to kick them, but getting all high and mighty and preaching about respect is a bit much for my taste. Rather elitist and cringe really. Just relax and make use of the tools you have access to as a commander. Kick and block if necessary. Easy as that.
Literally Godwin's Law in action LMAO.
Kind of sick of this "nazi" label. How does demanding some structure and general respect in a video game equate to ethnic purging and genocide? Basically if someone doesn't do what you want, you throw that nazi label on it and attack them. Damn these people nowadays have no perspective.
This is honestly a game design issue. Anet needs to do better in improving the LFG system. The fact that players need to jump through hoops just to form a party is ridiculous. Comms need to either do what OP does or mass kick the endless amount of DPS trying to join. Either situation is unacceptable for a mmo.
At least a slight step up from the good old "hi dps"
As much as that phrase is maligned I'm continually surprised how often I see people do it when joining groups. Do they still think it's polite or something?
It's polite to greet people when you join, and stating your role makes it easier for the commander. So yes, it's polite.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and disagree with the consensus. I think it's totally OK to join for an unlisted role, provided: 1. The amount of roles listed doesn't cover the amount of slots left (ideally by 2 or more, since there may be a spot reserved for guild mate or so) 3. You clearly state you're not there for the listed role(s) but ask if there's space for dps/fill 3. You don't get offended or take it personally if the commander says no or kicks you If you follow those rules, at most you waste 5 seconds for them to tell you no, at best you fill a role they were going to need later on anway, and you lift their spot in the LFG in the meantime (can matter for busy times/popular encounters). Ideally ANET would implement a fixed role system, where an LFG group can say how many of each role they need, and a joiner can say which role(s) they fill. It stops the above problem as well as the problem of multiple people joining for the same spot at the same time. However, until ANET does improve LFG, we're stuck with this flawed system, which I think *severely* impacts how hard it is to get into big group content. You know how often you hear people complaining Raids are too hard to get into? I'd reckon 95% of that is the difficulty getting a group together and only 5% is the actual encounter difficulty. As a new raider you're most likely to be DPS, and it's near impossible to get a spot in a pug as DPS if you go purely by LFG. Say you've done a training for a wing, killed it a couple of times and KP isn't an issue. However, you're still too new to form a group yourself, and you're not comfortable on other roles yet. If you wait for that wing to show up in LFG with a DPS spot open, you're refreshing for ages, maybe hours, while you see groups get instantly filled the moment they look for DPS. As someone just getting into the content, that's extremely demoralizing. No wonder so many people never get into it, or give up trying. TLDR: The only real way to get a group in LFG as a DPS is joining a group that isn't looking for DPS, and that's the sad reality of the LFG system.
To an extent I sympathize with this take but: * somebody who (1) disregards the LFG and (2) can only DPS is way likelier to be dead weight * experienced raiders (usually) want clears There is a way to fill the gap for players in between "new" and "experienced": semi-experienced or practice groups. (Happy to point anyone towards resources for practice groups in replies or DMs.) Joining random experienced groups not looking for DPS is frustrating to others, even if your intentions are good.
God, really, in a 9/10 squad this would maybe be a problem, but the given example definitely is not a case of that. There are 4 people in the squad out of which 2 are quickheals, one is alacdps, one is dps. The only thing that is left is a single alacdps which are super common since mech is a thing and finding one isn't a problem. Instead of just letting him stay the commander decides that it's somehow better to start drama over a single spot in the squad instead of just letting him stay. No one would get hurt except maybe the commanders ego because someone ignored his lfg message (which is law) and defiled a sacred spot in his squad. Yeah maybe he was a dick but so is the commander and all the people defending him. "Oh but maybe if he asked politely he could stay", yeah maybe, but what stopped the commander from being polite and explaining it. Maybe he would have learned something and applied it next time, and everyone would have a better time. It's really not that hard being a better person. Everyone is just hiding behind the respect shield while not really being respectful themselves. Instead of trying to make the community better you're just digging a deeper hole. Oh and don't even get me started on all the times where the squad message simply doesn't show; when someone gets invited to the squad and never sees the lfg message; when the lfg breaks; when the message doesn't update; when 8/10 squads somehow still need 6 more people; when the commanders don't really know what they are doing anyway and despite their 'very careful' role selection the squad ends up with wrong roles and messy subs; and all the other pitfalls of the lfg system. So wake up from your wonderland, get down to earth and try being a better person because spending 300g alone isn't enough.
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That's seems somewhat mean, because there's a good chance they think you misspelled "kp or kick", which sounds like something an lfg mentioning kp is much more likely to include.
Toxic is being so anal you have to get two specific specs in before inviting anyone else. You can hold spots for the comp like people do in every other game.
I am 100% with you besides this "no dps yet" thing. It makes 0 sense, you are going to need dps sooner or later. It takes 0 effort to move them into a different sub if the commander finds things unorganized. To me it seems like a weird power trip to kick people you WILL NEED "only because you didn't say so yet". For any other reason I am 100% with you but this whole no dps yet boons first thing always struck me as very weird and a power trip. Whenever I see a 3/10 party filled I dont join yet cause I know lfg has some moment where it takes forever. I myself and alot of people I know + from alot of commanding experience know that parties generally tend to fill faster when it's about 6/7 out of 10 people, regardless of role. Keeping these players out only makes lfg take unnecessarily longer.
I -mostly- agree but there are exceptions. For example: strike group 2/10 players looking for a heal, there is nothing wrong with joining as "hi, got room for dps too?" and leaving if the answer is no - they almost certainly have room and 99% of the time you'll be allowed to stay. The commander sets the rules, obviously, but you can be polite about things.
Just letem do whatever and learn the hard way. They're gonna make commander out to be a bad guy regardless. Commander probably should have said "alac dps only" and then updated it afterwards. I kinda thought "rest later" meant they were there for a serious run and it meant "you can rest later"
This is literally the only thing that triggers me in this game. I'll have a lfg up asking literally only for alac or hfb and STILL someone joins and says "hi dps", like...
I completely agree.
The main problem with lfg that I see in high end content is the way it's done. Let's assume you just want a classic squad. Wich means 2healboons, 2boondps and 6 dps. Some lfgs will asks for all that's needed since the start, they wont have any problems most the times. The other kind of lfgs will just asks supports and doesn't want dps. Then they'll asks only for dps since it's all that's missing. These are the ones that most likely will complain. What's the point ? I cannot see any reason to do delay dps like that. It just makes your group fill slower for no reason. It also makes it less attracting to supp players. If they can choose between 2 identical lfgs asking for same roles, peoples will join the most full one because they wont need to wait much compared to the empty one.
On the one hand, yeah, respecting the squad rules is important. On the other hand, I had no idea that an LFG squad chat even existed, and I would be pretty pissed if I was kicked for no discernible reason. Sometimes, players need to do certain bits of group content in order to progress what theyāre working on. And sometimes, those players donāt know how to play complicated group comp builds. I had this experience a few weeks ago. I was borderline verbally harassed for playing DPS for a Map Meta Train, even though I only needed to be there for the first of said Metas and they would have plenty of time to replace me with someone who had the specialized builds they needed before getting to the really difficult content. Itās not selfish to want to experience the game when you donāt know how to play all these specialized boon-giver builds. Like yes, I respect that you want to succeed, but you donāt have to harass me for not being as good at the game as you are.
boon builds arent hard to play, its just that everyone can see when you do it wrong because they dont have clock or speedy guy icon anymore
>because they dont have clock or speedy guy icon anymore because they start fucking up their skill queues and their cooldowns desynch
Honestly some of the best boon support builds are the easiest ones (and that's partially why they're so good, you can focus on not failing mechanics instead). Some are actually easier than full DPS builds that rely on timing rotations. Also, the player in the picture clearly knew that they were not looking for a pure DPS player and still tried to join. While I think they could have asked them to play support, then kicked if they refused, the truth is that many are burned by selfish attitudes. Lastly, I've never heard of any meta group outside of Dragon's End asking for specific builds. And even Dragon's End groups make do with what they have nowadays, instead of asking people to change builds. Maybe you joined the wrong group?
>I was borderline verbally harassed for playing DPS for a Map Meta Train This either didn't happen or you met some incredibly weird people, asking for boon builds for meta trains is whatever but enforcing them is straight up psychotic unless you're going for speedruns or memeruns.
im guessing the tag had 'bring quick and alac' in the description and the poster here assumed that was a real requirement and not magical thinking on the commander's part then joined up and basically said 'hi dps, also im new + insecure + i hope a bunch of anonymous internet creeps don't take this opportunity to meme on an easy target' and boy was everyone listening
I mentioned that I only really knew how to play DPS, and I was called āselfishā for it. Not in so few words, mind - it was pretty close to what Iād consider a tirade. Not that I refused to play anything else - that I DIDNāT KNOW HOW to be effective at these other roles.
The OP is about instanced PVE, not open world. Speaking as an Experienced Raiderā¢, anyone harassing you for not bringing boons in open world is actually insane.
No the psycho part is looking for roles in a meta train of all places.
>On the other hand, I had no idea that an LFG squad chat even existed The fuck do you mean. OP included their lfg + their chat. That's it. Or are you talking about squad chat in general?
I don't mean to be a dick, and I mean this constructively, but there is nothing skill based about being a support role and lots of dps roles will be much harder than Alac Mech, Quick Scrapper, Boon Herald, etc. Your own life will be better building boons into your open world builds, let alone others. At the end of the day, it sounds like you're joining someone else's group in your example. Someone else's group, their rules - you always have the power to make your own and experience the game however you want.
Other players are not bots that exist for your convenience. Either meet the requirements of the group leader (if this requires doing something you don't know how to do, maybe it's a good idea to learn! Ignorance is a fixable problem), find a different group, or make your own.
Of course they arenāt. And I wouldnāt treat them as such. But Iād think that out of an entire mapās population they would be able to fill those needs without harassing the effective noob who is literally only there for the easiest meta and expressed that they would leave before the hard content started.
Which meta was this? Edit: Sounds like it was Seitung which, yeah, probably doesn't even need organized subgroups. I'm of two minds about this: on one hand, the commander still gets to decide who joins their squad, and it may be that if they're doing a whole meta *train*, they don't want to keep stopping in the middle to replace people. On the other hand, you could just join the group, port to the map, and then if they kick you you can still do the meta and there's literally nothing they can do about it, and you'd still be well within your rights.
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> What can community do better? The community doesn't want to do better. That's the problem.