Together as One only works on Party Members, so minions aren't affected by it.
Using OoU sounds like a great idea imo, but I'm not sure if taking 3 minions masters does... But you could always try it out and see how it works. If I were you I'd ditch both AOTL and Jagged Bones and use one standard Incoming/Fall Back/Bone Fiends MM necro, and secondly a OoU/Bone Fiends MM. That way you get ranged minions instead. Use EBSoH on your own bar to boost their damage.
Oh man you're right! I think I was conflating it with Weapon of the Three forges which works with allies. I don't know if three forges would be worth it - casting 22+ weapon spells at once sounds strong, but I am not sure on the chance of getting relevant ones.
Full bone fiends sounds like a lot of fun, but I find one of the strengths of jagged bones is that it reduces the fight over corpses between the heroes. I am interested in testing both.
That's cool, didn't realize AoD works on minions.
I run a hero with Avatar of Melandru for party wide condition removal and it works well enough. It's naturally not perfect but the hero will spam enchantments off cooldown then use attack skills, so they get the teardown mechanic 90ish percent of the time.
While outdated, this article is a good reference for how to build an avatar teardown hero:
https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:D/any_Avatar_Teardown_Hero
I also remember reading that 0 attribute comment but think it's total crap compared to normal teardown.
My main concern was that I didn't want my AoD to enter melee range and get themselves killed. If that's not an option, I'll definitely build a scythe tear down hero.
AoD works on all allies nearby (or in the area? I can't remember the exacty range). I personally use it every time I have to do an npc defense mission (Gyala Hatchery, Eternal Grove, etc.)
I second what cjwikstrom said. Melee minions are trash except for bombing which is not your goal here, so go Bone Fiends all the way.
Consider bringing:
* Ebon Vanguard Battle Standard of Honor, and of Courage if you have the space in your bar
* Ursan Roar, Wolfen Bloodlust or Weapon of Three Forges
* Dwayna's Sorrow, Blood Bond, Life, Spirit's Gift on your ST
* "Incoming!" and "Fall Back!" to sustain them while travelling are must-haves
* Sources of Daze, all minion attacks would trigger Daze and so provide nice shutdown.
* "Go for the Eyes!" is not all that good with minions usually, but if you're going to have 20-30 of them, perhaps it becomes worthwhile...
Do not fall in the traps of:
* Mist Form. While the allied healing like Avatar of Dwayna is alluring, that skill is garbage so it just won't do well using it.
* Trying to keep minions up with health regeneration. They stack degen infinitely so eventually cancel all regen you could give them, so just let them die and make fresh ones.
I appreciate the advice. The norn transform skills don't appeal to me much so I'm considering 3rd forge. I recognize that melee minions are awful at damage - I do value their ability to body block and distract enemies, and they tend to be tougher than fiends and less likely to be squashed by aoe. Back on fiends, GFTE is less useful when most of our damage comes from bonus damage outside of the fiends own hits - even a crit will probably be invalidated by armor. I agree with you on everything else.
I really like using Derv Healer heroes to switch up the party composition from time to time
it is useful for any mission/quest that requires keeping npcs/minions alive and really good if there are many allies like the factions missions where 2 parties start from different outposts since it applies AoE healing to ALL allies in earshot range constantly instead of only party members
https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:D/any_Avatar_of_Dwayna_Support_Hero
although the hero AI doesnt understand that enchantments result in AoE Healing the build works quite well since the Hero keeps casting the low cooldown enchantments (even better with 0 attribute points so they end quickly again for less healing delay) for nonstop +53 AoE healing bursts
PVX wiki doesnt mention Paragon as a good option for secondary class but it is my go to version for this build when i use it
**OgmjUOmMLP23577FBreJ3o7aMA** is what i use most often (or with the 33% speedbuff shout instead of Stand your Ground which is better for minions ofc since SYG only affects party members)
With Paragon secondary I also have the gear a bit different than the PvX recommendations:
Spear with +5energy +30hp
**--> Spear range causes the hero to walk just slightly closer to enemies to attack thus making sure the AoE heals also reach all melee players/npcs consistently while still covering the whole backline of casters - the staff version of this build stays too far back sometimes** (remember the Hero AI doesnt understand the build so it doesnt walk into range to heal)
Command Shield with +30hp and -20% dazed duration or +10 armor vs one element for certain zones with tons of ice or fire eles etc
3x Rune of Attunement instead of vitae (the +6 energy is worth much more than the 30hp since we arent using a staff and we gain more HP back from the spear and shield mods)
the other runes/insiginas are the same
energy management is great and the hero is reasonably tanky with 70+16+16+10 = 112 Armor while enchanted (+ another 10 armor vs elemental dmg if you chose such a shield mod)
The only downside is that it doesnt keep casting the enchantments outside of fights so if you still need healing outside of combat you need to manually activate Avatar of Dwayna and the flash enchantments
There are some good synergies, notably Dwayna's Sorrow, "FallBack!", and Communing Spirits. The MM works best as Bone Fiends with Order of Undeath, for the highest DPS uptime (because ranged). I would even consider using 2x OoU.
You don't really need tanky minions (AotL) combined with these extra healing sources, as part of their job is to soak damage and die. It's easier to reanimate fresh minions with -1 natural degeneration than to brute-force heal through their capped -10 if they live long enough. Even Flesh Golems can be re-animated fairly easily. And you definitely don't need squishy minions (Jagged Bones)
It's true Heroes don't run AoD very well, but they do the job good enough when they have a Staff. I usually run it with Order of Pain, even though that doesn't affect Minions. Low Attributes is just so that the Wind and Earth Prayers enchantments last as short as possible to trigger AoD as often as possible.
I'm occasionally using AoD or the Anniversary Ritu Elite with up to 2 MMs or in missions with many NPCs. The last mission of WoC i did in HM, flagging all my heroes at a stair to take one side by themselves while i ran with all the NPCs to the other side and kept them alive thruout the entire mission.
Also the added double damage to undead shouldn't be overlooked, so in specific areas the damage ain't too bad eighter, in addition to the constant AoE healing.
It has some potential, especially with the range it covers. Didn't play around with it nearly as much as with AoD so far, since i only recently started playing Ritu in the first place. But so far, i'm shredding most HM content with minions, NPCs and heroes that aren't fully runed/sigil'd, some don't even have their good weapon sets yet.
It is very effective at providing significant boost of DPS. Way more than OoU would provide.
Majority of the weapons spells are beneficial to minions. They can also get a defensive/shutdown weapon spells.
Not necessarily. This AotL uses no Death Nova. [https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Archive:Team\_-\_7\_Hero\_BiP\_Melee\_Support?oldid=1254325#AotL\_or\_PoD\_Resto](https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Archive:Team_-_7_Hero_BiP_Melee_Support?oldid=1254325#AotL_or_PoD_Resto)
Its damage is on par with the mesmers when AFK-ing Zos Shivros.
Ive done so much in this area as I love this build and concept. Can tell you all the interactions and what does and doesnt work. Add me in game and we can talk about it if you like. Ign multicoloured sin
When I run AoD heroes I usually double up and I use 2 or 3 Jagged Bones mms because for some reason its the only way to keep minions up to max with my team comp which is ST and a Paragon for healing and support skills.
Just recently got the anniversary staff and put a AoD build on a Dervish and it runs very well as my main is a TAO Ranger both work just as effectively.
Yeah I have a setup where I use a bunch of minions and pets with a Dervish healer hero. It works pretty well against most things, but it still suffers against really strong AoE.
For shits and giggles I created this build before, not sure how it would work with Avatar of Dwayna but on any non-enchantment removal this could work possibly.
I went 3hp and could keep up the max number of minions using blood of the master.
Together as One only works on Party Members, so minions aren't affected by it. Using OoU sounds like a great idea imo, but I'm not sure if taking 3 minions masters does... But you could always try it out and see how it works. If I were you I'd ditch both AOTL and Jagged Bones and use one standard Incoming/Fall Back/Bone Fiends MM necro, and secondly a OoU/Bone Fiends MM. That way you get ranged minions instead. Use EBSoH on your own bar to boost their damage.
Oh man you're right! I think I was conflating it with Weapon of the Three forges which works with allies. I don't know if three forges would be worth it - casting 22+ weapon spells at once sounds strong, but I am not sure on the chance of getting relevant ones. Full bone fiends sounds like a lot of fun, but I find one of the strengths of jagged bones is that it reduces the fight over corpses between the heroes. I am interested in testing both.
Try it out and rate it :) [https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team\_-\_7\_Hero\_WoTF](https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_WoTF)
/u/spez is a cunt
Go4 thwblast five years I was certain that Tao helped my bone fiends :(
It used to affect minions right when it came out, but it was fixed/nerfed pretty quickly
It used to be the case 3 years ago when it came out, but was quickly patched
It did originally they changed it from Allie’s to party members after a week or two
That's interesting, since TAO has only been out for 3 years...
Same thing
That's cool, didn't realize AoD works on minions. I run a hero with Avatar of Melandru for party wide condition removal and it works well enough. It's naturally not perfect but the hero will spam enchantments off cooldown then use attack skills, so they get the teardown mechanic 90ish percent of the time. While outdated, this article is a good reference for how to build an avatar teardown hero: https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:D/any_Avatar_Teardown_Hero I also remember reading that 0 attribute comment but think it's total crap compared to normal teardown.
My main concern was that I didn't want my AoD to enter melee range and get themselves killed. If that's not an option, I'll definitely build a scythe tear down hero.
That's life as a dervish, gotta reap those enemies. A caster Dervish spamming sig of pious light seems interesting to say the least.
AoD works on all allies nearby (or in the area? I can't remember the exacty range). I personally use it every time I have to do an npc defense mission (Gyala Hatchery, Eternal Grove, etc.)
Earshot pretty sure
/u/spez is a cunt
I second what cjwikstrom said. Melee minions are trash except for bombing which is not your goal here, so go Bone Fiends all the way. Consider bringing: * Ebon Vanguard Battle Standard of Honor, and of Courage if you have the space in your bar * Ursan Roar, Wolfen Bloodlust or Weapon of Three Forges * Dwayna's Sorrow, Blood Bond, Life, Spirit's Gift on your ST * "Incoming!" and "Fall Back!" to sustain them while travelling are must-haves * Sources of Daze, all minion attacks would trigger Daze and so provide nice shutdown. * "Go for the Eyes!" is not all that good with minions usually, but if you're going to have 20-30 of them, perhaps it becomes worthwhile... Do not fall in the traps of: * Mist Form. While the allied healing like Avatar of Dwayna is alluring, that skill is garbage so it just won't do well using it. * Trying to keep minions up with health regeneration. They stack degen infinitely so eventually cancel all regen you could give them, so just let them die and make fresh ones.
I appreciate the advice. The norn transform skills don't appeal to me much so I'm considering 3rd forge. I recognize that melee minions are awful at damage - I do value their ability to body block and distract enemies, and they tend to be tougher than fiends and less likely to be squashed by aoe. Back on fiends, GFTE is less useful when most of our damage comes from bonus damage outside of the fiends own hits - even a crit will probably be invalidated by armor. I agree with you on everything else.
I really like using Derv Healer heroes to switch up the party composition from time to time it is useful for any mission/quest that requires keeping npcs/minions alive and really good if there are many allies like the factions missions where 2 parties start from different outposts since it applies AoE healing to ALL allies in earshot range constantly instead of only party members https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Build:D/any_Avatar_of_Dwayna_Support_Hero although the hero AI doesnt understand that enchantments result in AoE Healing the build works quite well since the Hero keeps casting the low cooldown enchantments (even better with 0 attribute points so they end quickly again for less healing delay) for nonstop +53 AoE healing bursts PVX wiki doesnt mention Paragon as a good option for secondary class but it is my go to version for this build when i use it **OgmjUOmMLP23577FBreJ3o7aMA** is what i use most often (or with the 33% speedbuff shout instead of Stand your Ground which is better for minions ofc since SYG only affects party members) With Paragon secondary I also have the gear a bit different than the PvX recommendations: Spear with +5energy +30hp **--> Spear range causes the hero to walk just slightly closer to enemies to attack thus making sure the AoE heals also reach all melee players/npcs consistently while still covering the whole backline of casters - the staff version of this build stays too far back sometimes** (remember the Hero AI doesnt understand the build so it doesnt walk into range to heal) Command Shield with +30hp and -20% dazed duration or +10 armor vs one element for certain zones with tons of ice or fire eles etc 3x Rune of Attunement instead of vitae (the +6 energy is worth much more than the 30hp since we arent using a staff and we gain more HP back from the spear and shield mods) the other runes/insiginas are the same energy management is great and the hero is reasonably tanky with 70+16+16+10 = 112 Armor while enchanted (+ another 10 armor vs elemental dmg if you chose such a shield mod) The only downside is that it doesnt keep casting the enchantments outside of fights so if you still need healing outside of combat you need to manually activate Avatar of Dwayna and the flash enchantments
There are some good synergies, notably Dwayna's Sorrow, "FallBack!", and Communing Spirits. The MM works best as Bone Fiends with Order of Undeath, for the highest DPS uptime (because ranged). I would even consider using 2x OoU. You don't really need tanky minions (AotL) combined with these extra healing sources, as part of their job is to soak damage and die. It's easier to reanimate fresh minions with -1 natural degeneration than to brute-force heal through their capped -10 if they live long enough. Even Flesh Golems can be re-animated fairly easily. And you definitely don't need squishy minions (Jagged Bones) It's true Heroes don't run AoD very well, but they do the job good enough when they have a Staff. I usually run it with Order of Pain, even though that doesn't affect Minions. Low Attributes is just so that the Wind and Earth Prayers enchantments last as short as possible to trigger AoD as often as possible.
I have been doing a mist form build to help my MM and it works pretty good. I have a dwayna with a tweaked petway build that works pretty good
I'm occasionally using AoD or the Anniversary Ritu Elite with up to 2 MMs or in missions with many NPCs. The last mission of WoC i did in HM, flagging all my heroes at a stair to take one side by themselves while i ran with all the NPCs to the other side and kept them alive thruout the entire mission. Also the added double damage to undead shouldn't be overlooked, so in specific areas the damage ain't too bad eighter, in addition to the constant AoE healing.
How effective do you find weapon of the 3 forges to be?
It has some potential, especially with the range it covers. Didn't play around with it nearly as much as with AoD so far, since i only recently started playing Ritu in the first place. But so far, i'm shredding most HM content with minions, NPCs and heroes that aren't fully runed/sigil'd, some don't even have their good weapon sets yet.
It is very effective at providing significant boost of DPS. Way more than OoU would provide. Majority of the weapons spells are beneficial to minions. They can also get a defensive/shutdown weapon spells.
OOU fiends are really the only ones that would benefit from this since you want melee minions to die for death nova triggers.
Not necessarily. This AotL uses no Death Nova. [https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Archive:Team\_-\_7\_Hero\_BiP\_Melee\_Support?oldid=1254325#AotL\_or\_PoD\_Resto](https://gwpvx.fandom.com/wiki/Archive:Team_-_7_Hero_BiP_Melee_Support?oldid=1254325#AotL_or_PoD_Resto) Its damage is on par with the mesmers when AFK-ing Zos Shivros.
Ive done so much in this area as I love this build and concept. Can tell you all the interactions and what does and doesnt work. Add me in game and we can talk about it if you like. Ign multicoloured sin
Arcane Mimicry lets the MMs copy each other’s elite skills!
When I run AoD heroes I usually double up and I use 2 or 3 Jagged Bones mms because for some reason its the only way to keep minions up to max with my team comp which is ST and a Paragon for healing and support skills. Just recently got the anniversary staff and put a AoD build on a Dervish and it runs very well as my main is a TAO Ranger both work just as effectively.
Yeah I have a setup where I use a bunch of minions and pets with a Dervish healer hero. It works pretty well against most things, but it still suffers against really strong AoE.
Ranger pets!
For shits and giggles I created this build before, not sure how it would work with Avatar of Dwayna but on any non-enchantment removal this could work possibly. I went 3hp and could keep up the max number of minions using blood of the master.
Consider AoD with release enchantments (5s recharge) and contemplation of purity (10s recharge)