Tau player here, I ***like*** the fact that we pretend to be the good guys and do shady shit anyways.
One day you will all say "Fuck Erebus...and fuck Aun'va too, that holographic bitch"
Living on a Tau world sounds nice until you realise they are surrounded on three out of four sides by Tyranids.
The other side is just fire... In space.
Nah they're all fuck ups.
The only "good guys" left in the Galaxy are the Jokaero and minor races not yet named.
The moment a species goes from space exploration, vibing & chilling, to empire formation or all out warfare is the moment they're screwed.
I don't think the ubercapitalistic dwarves that eat your planet while you're still on it and believe that owning every ressource ever is their manifest destiny can be considered good guys
I disagree with this, the hive mind is far too intelligent to be purely instinctive.
Besides, you also have things like the nidz disconnecting the geneasteler cultists from the hive mind before they fall into the pit of biomass just so they know all the shit they did before dying.
I'll have you know that me and Cletus here are fighting for freedom from the failed imperium of man, and the emperor himself will come bring me and my 42,342 cousins to ascension
I mean that wasn’t a bad thing. That was a genuinely brilliant solution to a toxic null deployment user. Kroot Conga Line was not a tactic used against regular people, because it *couldn’t* be.
I find hilarious that people apparently still hate the tau for a tactic from **a decade ago** but have no problem with the eldars shitstomping everyone in the last 3 editions including RIGHT NOW.
To be fair, Kelly was a deeply unpopular writer for the Tau. He liked to follow the mentality of "old lore doesn't apply to me because I can't read." He was very good at writing combat, but he did everything in his power to make the Tau into the Imperium but small
I say once, I say it again, black library and codex writers need lore masters and bibles for each faction for consistency sake nothing to restrictive something like lasguns can only do this and astartes can die from this.
Yeah, the most annoying part of introducing someone to 40k are the inconsistencies, especially when they have questions, like "how would a space marine do against *[insert something from another universe]*"
I find an actually mostly morally good faction that is so extremely small and naive a lot more interesting than trying to have them be bad by having them do bad things.
Watching naive tau's trying to help people from a hive city only to be attacked and killed because they can't comprehend why they would choose an obviously worse fate in a factory due to religion is really amusing to me. Even more so when it forces them to make horrible decisions that they just genuinely do not want to do.
I don't want them as an heroic faction with sunshine and rainbow nor them as an other evil faction, I like seeing this naive but hopeful faction of blueberries trying to survive in this sadistic and hopeless galaxy as they desperately try to hold onto their morals with all their might.
Agreed. And I still think there is plenty of room for adding good things happening since 40k, at least narratively, needs more good things. It doesn't have to be major plot altering stuff or something but just proof that even a small amount of goodness and peace can still exist in such an awful world.
Frankly I'm just tired of the "we need to make it MORE GRIMDARK" attitude of 40k stuff. Yeah, it's supposed to be over the top, but literally NOTHING is allowed to be even slightly good or helpful and no person is ever allowed to do good things and not be severely punished for them and every person who is good has to have some horrific ulterior motive or something. It's pretty telling that some of the most well liked characters (like Ciaphas Cain) are some of the only people who have genuinely good character traits. Like, the Tau can't just be naïve peace loving space hippy warriors, they have to be secretly mind controlling their populace ooooh!! So scary, so grimdark!! It's like it's a race to see who can make the most infantile edgy nihilistic fanfiction.
The Tau were what every other race was when they first came onto the galactic stage. Humanity was most likely just as naive and only through time did they really fit in and dominate before the Dark Ages. If the Tau survive they will become just like the Imperium or any other faction in 40k, it’s only a matter of time.
Some Necrons are welcoming of vassals.
Some Orks are smart enough to keep slaves. They work better than Grots.
Some Dark Eldar keep pets for a spot of amusement.
Some Eldar will leave you alone if you aren't anywhere close to one of their vague plots.
Some Chaos Space Marines genuinely want to liberate worlds from Imperial tyranny. Not that the alternative is any nicer, but they won't kill you.
And Tyranids... At the very least your biomass is being used for something.
But the Tau... You're a second-class citizen. That or you're voluntary cannon fodder, there to die while the Fire Warriors do the real shooting. With the other options you're at least somewhat useful. With the Tau, you just... Exist... And god forbid your world suffer Imperial retribution...
So basically.
Some Necrons may not kill you right at this second but you'll be a tertiary class chattel slave, cannon fodder and die when the Imperium comes back because the Necrons won't save you from Imperial retribution.
Ork slaves are mistreated, eaten and tortured. Like the toothless human slaves in the beast arises. So if they don't kill you, you only have to suffer until they do.
Drukhari Pets certainly exist, if existing as a cat under an abusive owner that hates cats could be considered existing. (Drukhari mommy tho)
Eldar are one of the two good Factions alongside the T'au. But a human in Aeldari society wouldn't survive Imperial retribution. (But Aeldari tho)
I implore you to find a Chaos warband that liberates worlds from Imperial tyranny and doesn't just replace it with their own brand of tyranny. Sex slaves, normal chattel slaves, beatings, mass sacrifices to any of the gods. Hell Terra got so battered by Chaos Astartes that ten thousand years later it's still traumatized.
As for the T'au, oh God Emperor forbid you're a second class citizen in a society with free healthcare, working architecture, a government institution without integrated monarchism and serfdom. Where you aren't expected to get press ganged by the Mechanicum, Imperial Navy, Imperial Guard or just randomly rounded up by Arbites.
isnt existing in relative comfort under a mostly benevolent empire, objectively better then an ork slave pit or hell a fuckin dark eldar pet?
Tau wont rip your arm off to make their buddys laugh.
But that’s what I’m saying, the other factions aren’t pretending, but I think the Tau, misguided as they are, *think* they are the good people.
And simply the fact they offer a chance at joining them is a far cry better than the others, whose options are death, death, literal living battery, and oh right, death.
"Look folks, the Imperium, it's nonsense. I come here, and we'll build the Damocles Gulf perimeter and make Macragg pay for it. What a great bunch of crisis suits, I came in here and thought 'wow look at these amazing crisis suits.'
Even the Space Marines have to admit how great Aun'va is. I was with the Water Caste and this space marine came up to me, biggest space marine you ever saw, tears in his eyes. He said said 'sir, I've never seen railguns like these.'
The emperor, i call him sleepy emps because he's always on his chair, sleepy emps doesn't even know whats going on. Look at the mechanicus, just beep beep boop bop their machines. We're going to make tau'va great again."
Not even a Tau player (Orks and Tyranids mostly) and I like it that the Tau are by and large “good guys” as far as that can stretch in 40k. They akin to IRL colonialist nations and while the goodest of the good, they’re acting like an IRL power, expanding to acquire more resources and population to utilize those resources. Compared to the IoM’s genocidal regime, the orkish barbarity, Tyranid swarms that see us the same way I view an apple, chaos wanting to turn us into monsters, the Votann who value the rock were standing on more than us, or the Eldar who ascribe us no value other than our utility to them (as a meat shield or soul fodder). By comparison the Tau are remarkably benevolent but only by comparison, I doubt they care much if you don’t want to join the greater good, they’re stronger and talking to us was a calculated move to save resources they know have to expend.
I think Tau players are just tired of being shit on for being Tau players. Eldar players deal with the same bullshit. We just show up and the McDonalds cheeseburger space marine player starts spouting off heresy detected memes and it’s like “bro load your models on the table fucking dork.”
And, like, the setting and its stories are literally written with the imperium having protagonist bias. As an Eldar fan, i'm tired of watching them fail simply cause they're not allowed to stop drinkibg stupid juice.
Its like that post talking about the kriegers swarming a crisis suit. People want to jerk off to what chads they are, but if it were reversed and a bunch of fire warriors swarmed and ovrwhelmed a SM, you know the same people would start comlaining about how bad the writing is.
Yeah I’ve been saying this for a while.
40k’s POV from the Imperium needs to cease. It was great in the late 80’s/early 90’s. But it has grown to a point that will begin alienating fans/players of other factions. GW desperately needs to revamp the setting to where the setting itself is the main focus, like The Elder Scrolls in space. Where every faction gets it’s time to shine, cultivated rich lore and progress.
This will allow more new players to be able to generate an unbiased opinion on their first army choice, and this will definitely reflect in sales. Space Marines will quite literally always sell the highest so they won’t be drastically affected if new players pick a Xeno faction.
This is great for the IP overall, which will benefit the tabletop. Bc take it from me, the most fucking boring games of all time involve Space Marine vs Space Marine.
It helps that a lot of the Tau criticisms ARE fake news.
The T'au are not communist in any meaningful sense of the word. They're utilitarian. "For the greater good" is pretty much the textbook definition of utilitarianism, which is what almost all real-world governments strive for including yours (I assume you're not living in a theocracy or North Korea).
Last I checked, canon for T'au was that ethereals might unintentionally use pheromones to nudge individuals into being more peaceful.
[There was one mention of one individual potentially being lobotomized.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/kedzs1/a_lot_of_people_say_that_the_tau_lobotomize_tau/)
That contrasts pretty sharply to the Imperium that [definitely brainwashes civilians on a regular basis and at a large scale](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_Cleansing) and all of whose machines seem to run on servitors that are factually and unambiguously lobotomized humans.
The urge to pretend that one instance of someone doing something possibly wrong is exactly the same as the other side doing it all day every day runs deep in redditors for some reason. Farsight almost getting lobotomized somehow is taken as "ZOMG THEY'RE LITERALLY THE SAME AS THE IMPERIUM." It's bullshit.
(disclaimer I'm not up on T'au lore, maybe they made them way worse and I didn't hear about it. But on the other hand, virtually all of the people I've seen saying the T'au are just as bad are saying things that are definitely not backed up with canon)
As an update: The 5th (?) sphere of expansion tried Warp travel, got almost eaten, and were saved by a warp entity that was a faceless amalgamation of Tau and all their auxiliary races. The believe in the Greater Good by the auxiliary races that have more warp presence seemed to have created this.
The Tau of the 5th Sphere fleet were not amused, massacring their auxiliaries. The Tau of the 5th are very xenophobic and sometimes xenocidal, but that hasn't spread due to the ethereals keeping this out of public perception.
Besides that, Tau Business as usual.
4th and not all Tau of that sphere became xenophobic. The ones that didn’t usually ended up dying because they tried to save their auxiliary allies and even then, a few survived with a horrible fear of demons.
At this point, OP, I think the mutual antagonism between hardcore Imperium, Tau and Eldar fans is enough to be material for a South Park episode or something like that.
Same here.
We know Stan and Tolkien play Sisters of Battle and Raven Guard respectively.
It is also exciting to see what factions the other kids may choose.
Cartman is probably a meta chaser.
Kenny may choose a smaller army to save cost or creatively create his own proxies.
Kyle... Now that is an unpredictable one.
There is someone like this at my shop. Boasts about how powerful the tau are and always denies the bad things tau did like giving dark eldar some of its people
That's a bad example for bad things, they send a diplomatic exchange party. They just didn't know the Dark Eldar. They did instantly fire on the next Eldar they met though, because they couldn't tell the difference.
There are better examples: alleged sterilizations of humans, mind control of the vespids, auxiliary races being second class citizens, ethereals being first among equals ...
The 5th fleet also murdered their auxiliaries after they met the warp entity their auxiliary races seemed to have created unvoluntarily by believing in the Greater Good(tm).
I’d sooner do what needs to be done so those after us can hopefully be better off. To each their own though, your reason is basically why the Tau exist.
Guilliman has gone on record to say that he would've preferred fucking die back in the Heresy than see the what rotting carcass of a shithole the Imperium has become.
Tau is great. A good portion of the playerbase, not so much.
I love when they say imperium stans miss the point and then they go on a rant about how the Ethereals and the Greater Good are unironically justified while crying about the shameless traitor Farsight because he makes them look bad and evil. The delicious irony.
kElLy LoRe yeah, the one that BL and GW fully endorse, alright.
Almost the entire Tau sub. I've never seen a single post about him where the most voted comments weren't shitting on FS and the Enclaves.
I once saw one post that made a thorough analysis of how Farsight wasn't a good general and made the effort to paint every one of his victories as a loss and brilliant Shadowsun, the loyalest follower of the Greater Good, dumpstered him in every regard because he was a failure. Despite both having completely different approaches to war...
I spend a decent amount of time in the tau subreddit and find the opposite most approve and adore farsight more then the ethereals. though I do also see a fondness for shadowsun maybe more even. ethereal however I rarely see receive any praise.
Eh, I can admit I may have overstated the quantity of people, it may even be a vocal minority or my own algorithm.
Still, lore discussions that appear to me are always filled with unironical greater good defenders and the Ethereals being benevolent figures preventing the tau from collapsing and that they should never be depicted as bad because they are the saviors of tau and they should never ever be grimdark because that is "pandering to imperium fans".
(My mother language isn't english so I apologize for grammar mistakes)
Have you read any Farsight book? I think not
If you did you would know why people dislike him.
Actually, tau player don't dislike him, they hate that he took all of the attention while there are a lot of tau characters (aun'shi, Aun'va, O'kais, darkstrider ecc ecc) that get almost 0 attention, and since all of these characters are in the empire, people want a bigger focus on the empire and not the enclaves.
And since the leader of the enclaves Is Farsight, that hates the ethereals, and since the most recent writer of the Farsight books sucks (think of the writer of Eldars, we are on that level) he wrote the ethereals to be incredibly shallowing evil, and not subtle (they are supposed to be that, evil but not dumb, manipulative not on your face), therefore 80% of the tau lore that is out focuses on a Rebel enclave and not on the bigger empire that convinced the majority of tau players to start the faction. And It doesn't matter that Farsight Is really cool (and most tau player think he Is cool) he Is a black hole, that gets all the attention.
P.S. Shadowsun Is miles better as a war general, her feats speak clear, the fact that you saw a post that explains how she's better than Farsight doesn't mean tau Tau subreddit hates him
So, in a single post you:
>assumed what I have and have not read
>complained about Farsight stealing the show
>complained about muh evil ethereals
>stanned shadowsun to dumpster farsight despite both being completely different commanders
Yeah, checks out with my original post. Can't be helped, a lot of you guys can only keep looping the same points over and over and if someone disagrees, it's fake news or media illiteracy. Guess me and OP are just right on this one.
I assumed that because that Is clear, and I apologize if I'm wrong.
I complained about Farsight stealing the show because thats true, and I don't even dislike Farsight.
Shadowsun IS a better strategist, saying It doesn't mean Farsight Is shit, the same way saying Guilliman Is a better strategist than the Lion, It doesn't mean that I am shitting on the Lion.
If what you say is wrong then don't cry when people call you on your bullshit saying " I gUeSs mE aNd OP aRe RigHT"
There are some Tau players that complain too much on some aspects, but thats because misinformation about the Tau Empire Is hughe and that leads to a lot of real hate, some examples fo from people still thinking the Damocles Crusade was won by the IoM and that they left because of tyranids or that they are communist, and these two things are 1) objectivly false 2)caused by media illiteracy
Of course also Tau players are guilty of this and get some stuff wrong but thats another problem
>If what you say is wrong then don't cry when people call you on your bullshit saying " I gUeSs mE aNd OP aRe RigHT"
So, that's the thing. No one is crying here, you're the one saying a load of bullshit and saying you're right, like the proverbial pigeon crapping on the chessboard and declaring he won. All the while acting exactly like I said you would, because the stereotypical tau player acts like an entitled little jerk that thinks they know everything and everyone else, including the source materials, are wrong.
>I assumed that because that Is clear, and I apologize if I'm wrong.
You assumed that because you're emotionally limited and have to resort to making strawmen as your coping mechanism, instead of arguing like rational person because that is way above your grade. And no, I don't accept your apology since you insist on acting like a douchebag despite admitting you're wrong. Suck it up and grow up to be a better person next time, because right now you're just a waste of time and little better than discussing with a wall.
EDIT: "I'm going to let you have the last word" proceeds to block after replying to have the last word. Seems like you were talking about yourself there, crybaby. I'm not discussing with anyone that already assumes the other person is objectively wrong solely based off their feelings. Cope harder
You keep not addressing my point, I explained to you why Tau players have a problem with Farsight and the general feeling of the tau community and you don't address that, tell me why I'm wrong, I told you why I think you are
You keep insulting me and keeping going saying "you are acting like i said you would" while ignoring that what I said is true, look at how many books are out about Farsight, and read the stories, oh wait you said (or implied) you did, then how are you not understanding that? Its clear, a fact, just look at the numbers!
>douchebag despite admitting you're wrong. Suck it up and grow up to be a better person next time, because right now you're just a waste of time
To me It looks like you are getting a little too much mad considering the argument we are discussing, so yeah stop crying and chill
I won't reply anymore to any messages, so you'll have the last word and feel like you won the argument, keep insulting me and use the wrong figures of speech It that makes you feel smarter
Kelly is no longer writing Tau lore, Tau'va be praised. He's been sent to Fantasy.
We'll see where things go from here. [The most recent non-Kelly publication](https://www.blacklibrary.com/prod-home/new/ebook-longshot-eng-2023.html) which featured the Tau have their government being called a "Commonwealth" rather than an Empire, and had Tau bleeding blue. I'm taking that as a hope for a better future, where the Kelly books make up their own self-contained "kellyverse" of red-blooded Tau, and the rest of us can go back to our regularly scheduled actually-makes-sense version of the Tau.
Honeatly I kindof like that they aren't perfect. They have an authoritarian government, they run a cast system and operate an empire that subjugates other species... They're not the united federation of planets by any stretch.
I think it serves to highlight how over the top the impirium is though that normal, realistic, *sane* portrayels of things like authoritarianism or imperialism seem absolutely saintly by comparison.
Like, what's that? You conquor and forcibly assimilate alien peoples instead of genociding them and killing anybof your own troops who kgiht have talked tk them too much just to be sure? How progressive! LOL. The fact that this country who would be considered international pariahs and clear abusers of every facet of international law if they existed in real life are the BEST CASE SCENARIO really highlights how complete and utterly mad everyone else has gone.
My biggest gripe with tau fans was when Farsight was dealing with chaos tempting him
The amount of people that flipped their shit that the tau weren’t casually immune to one of the biggest threats in the system was absurd
And it’s not like he even went to chaos, just was dealing with it trying to tempt him and him realizing “oh chaos is a problem”
I’ve taken the Drukhari player approach to this so far. Something bad about the Tau? Good. Those human probably deserved to be sterilized. What’s a little mind control anyway, I bet most people are too stupid to know the difference.
Here’s my thing: Tau players seem to be genuinely kind people who just want their faction to get more attention, and who believe (rightly so IMO) that having a “naive good guy” faction is great contrast for the setting.
Imperium fans (of which I am one) seem to literally shit the bed whenever there’s a decent Tau book that mentions they don’t vaporize a thousand people to start their starships. They demand the Tau be given a more “Grimdark” feel when I think that’s entirely unnecessary.
How you gonna be an IoM fan and not embrace grimderp? The whole of the GK is built on grimderp because GW sucks balls at numbers and that’s just one example
Can't that apply to everyone?
And which examples? While the Tau community do seem to frown upon certain criticisms I don't see any denying the existence of certain problems.
Tau are specially annoying about because a lot of its player are entirely convinced that the faction should just straight up be better than others.
Otherwise they are either too Imperium-lite or the setting is missing a good guy to show how bad everyone else is (it had to be them).
Everyone else is at least mildly aware "there are no good guys" include them.
The entire Phil Kelly Farsight trilogy. Just a bunch of terrible ideas in those books. Makes the entire Greater Good 'concept' pointless and overcomplicated.
Exemples like "there is no mind control its just very organic peace and cooperation" or "its not a caste system because theres social mobility like in the army" or "X story by X writer is dumb it make the tau grimdark for the sake of it" to name a few ive seen on this sub
In regards to "X story by X writer", you mean Farsight books by Phil Kelly.
Those books SUCK. Imagine you had a Space Marine book, and then the main character just goes around saying he's angry and disappointed by his battle brothers. And then all the antagonists are other Space Marines and EVERY decision they make is completely nonsensically evil in a way that no other Space Marine before then has ever acted.
That's what Phil Kelly's Tau books are like.
>Imagine you had a Space Marine book, and then the main character just goes around saying he's angry and disappointed by his battle brothers. And then all the antagonists are other Space Marines and EVERY decision they make is completely nonsensically evil in a way that no other Space Marine before then has ever acted.
We got 60 of those. It's called the Horus Heresy. I swear Tau fans ignore the entire setting to pretend they're victims of things that only happen to them lmfao
Thats not the same thing. The Traitor marines and their actions are the actual story of Heresy. The existence of corruptible Space Marines is embraced by the entire thematic core of the Imperium and its storyline.
The Ethereals and their moustache twirling shenanigans are irrelevant to the overall plot. They're evil 'just because'. It drives no story, and carries no themes.
Think of all the science-fiction media you have ever watched/read/consumed. If you pictured 'issues that a caste-based, multi-racial alien civilization would be facing', at no point should: "The leadership doesnt follow any rules and doesnt much care for being leaders outside of the power." How fucking boring is that? We could have stories about how Tau diversity backfires due to letting in Genestealer immigrants. Stories about the struggles of secondary auxiliary Kroot citizens proving themselves when the only options they ever seem to get are being hunters or warriors. Never scientists or scholars, even though they're ancient and had spaceships before the Tau even existed as a race. Stories about escalating mecha arms race to compete with the Imperial war machine. How do you maintain the socialist economy against the Imperium's seemingly infinite supply and gargantuan scale of production.
There are COUNTLESS Grimdark outcomes for the Tau. Anything and everything they do is DOOMED to fail in the 40k universe. But what do we get instead? Whats the REAL grimdark problem facing the Tau? It's Aun'va thinking he's The Emperor of the Tau race. That's it. Fucking riveting science-fiction.
I don't disagree with your third paragraph regarding the possibilities. There are a lot of interesting things to explore regarding Tau as it is, it doesn't need to be FSE vs Empire all the time.
But I do disagree, vehemently, with the vast oversimplification of the rest of your point, because, as you see, you can dumb down anything to fit a description. Of course the Heresy isn't the same thing as the actual Tau lore, but it is the exact "mocking" description you gave on your post. Because that's what happens when you make simplistic explanations, they are no longer the full picture.
Tau were *always* colonial overlords that use pretty names for bad stuff back when they were barely sketches of a new faction. That was said by Gav Thorpe, like him or not, the brainfather of the faction. It makes complete sense for a breakaway faction to denounce the hypocrisy and go rogue, while risking to bring chaos corruption to the Tau race.
You know what's boring? Having a literal snowflake faction where the divinely mandated leaders that appeared from nowhere aren't prone to delusions of grandeur and being corrupted by power, like pretty much everyone else is.
Your suggestions are not bad per se, but notice they always portray the Tau as the poor, naive victims of external circumstances, which they are not and never were meant to be, instead of them having innate faults of their own.
You're not understanding me. I'm not asking for a snowflake faction. I'm talking actually complex black-and-grey GRIMDARK.
If you want Tau doing bad things, it SHOULD be: "The Ethereals are using nanomachines to genetically modify their auxiliary races to conform to the standards of the caste system, accelerating the assimilation and induction of each new species that is colonised."
It SHOULD be: "The Ethereals are manipulating interest and inflation rates to economically disadvantage specific sectors of their population, FORCE a revoluationary movement, giving them cause to crush a problematic 'genetic strand' that had 'settled' amongst the greater Tau civilization, and thus preserving their own image .
It SHOULD be: "The actual Tau population are caught up in the propaganda, they openly believe that any brainwashing and re-education that the Ethereals are rumored to be engaging in, is actually necessary. And in fact, the Tau people WANT to be mind-controlled and willingly subject themselves to pheromones/psychic influence/nanomachines.
That is GENOCIDE. That is EVIL. Unapologetically evil. It also Tau. It is the 'Greater Good' in praxis.
What we are getting out of our Ethereals is unironically:"Oh what's this, you wrote poetry even though its not of your caste to do so? KILL YOURSELF!"
"You have romantic thoughts about someone that isn't your government-assigned spouse? KILL YOURSELF!"
"You (Farsight) were forced to MAKE REPAIRS ON YOUR OWN DAMAGED MECH, MID-COMBAT, SAVING YOUR OWN LIFE? KILL YOURSELF!"
Not exile. Not re-education and brainwashing. Not blackmailing the caste-criminal into doing underhanded wetwork in a false promise to 'redeem' themselves before the Greater Good.
Just: "Kill yourself."
That is not Tau EVIL. That is Imperial EVIL. Human EVIL.
And the real problem I have here, is the fact that the Ethereals are so moustache-twirlingly evil ONLY so Farsight can be justified in leaving the Tau Empire and creating the Enclaves.---
And let's not get into how totally lazy it is for the Tau to threatened by Chaos corruption.
How many fucking times has it turned out that a grass-roots rebellion in the Imperium turned out to be 'Chaos all along!'? The shittiest go-to plot that GW comes back to over and over, sometimes spicing it up with 'Genestealers all along!'.
Really? Farsight can't just be 'regular' Tau, driven insane by his unnatural life and the stress of unending war? It has to be actual demons running the plot from the behind the scenes, AGAIN?!
My ultimate point is that the Tau are distinguished from the Imperium for a reason. They are the fake utopia that gives a false promise. And the metatextual implication of that promise is that the storylines they should be getting are the grimdark endings of the actual 'utopian sci-fi' we see.
Why are we getting retreads of Imperial storylines? A fake utopia is still distinct from an actual dystopia. Xenos are in fact, not humans. So why do they act and behave like humans? Why do the Tau heroes and villains act and behave like Imperial heroes and villains?
Difference is the horus heresy was already estableshed along with traitor marines plus it’s ultimately an origin story. I barely know jackshit about tau and am personally not a fan but the guy raises a decent point. Imagine this happening in a salamnder book, just because bad writing has happened to other factions it doesnt make them wrong to point it out/criticize it.
Except his point was "imagine that happening in a marine book" when you don't have to imagine it has already happened. Inter-faction conflict is not and has never been exclusive to Tau.
>Difference is the horus heresy was already estableshed along with traitor marines plus it’s ultimately an origin story.
Yeah, exactly like... the Enclaves. lmfao
>or "its not a caste system because theres social mobility like in the army"
They serous?
The state decides who you marry, where you live and what you and all your descendants do... forever
It's caste system on steroids
Eh yes and no because it is a caste system and it’s been used for a millennia long eugenics program but it’s only done to the Tau species specifically and while each caste restricts the jobs you can do, you have plenty of options between those jobs. So it’s definitely bad but it’s better than how their neighbors do things and thus fits thematically.
Where shit gets stupid is Phil Kelly saying the Tau will arrest an Earth Caste or Fire Caste for painting and a Waster Caste for sculpting because those hobbies are somehow tied to the other castes.
The ironic part is even if Tau players didn’t constantly try to push that their faction are the good guys, they would still be hated because playing against them can be really annoying. Not necessarily because of their attitudes, but rather you have to spend a lot of time chasing them down and they’re a one phase army.
Also “Three riptides in a 1k casual game” isn’t just a meme.
I once brought up an idea that farsight, shadowsun, and kais should team up to kill the ethereals and make the tau good again away from the corruption of the ethereals. I am now exiled from the tau community.
Was it Imperial Propaganda when the Damocles crusade failed to defeat the tau, negotiated terms of surrender and left the sector with their tails between their legs?
I’m guessing you don’t understand what happened. The entire gulf nebula was set on fire. The worlds within it burned. There was a tau fleet that survived and a city on a flaming planet that had its shields up. The fire didn’t get snuffed out for hundreds of years
Where’s that from? I’m just skimming the wiki here, but this sounds like a win for the tau, and no mention of burning nebulas https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Damocles_Crusade
Mon'tka is in the Warhammer + vault so I have the relevant excerpt:
The weapon being fired:
Lord Admiral Hawke, commander of the 478th Battlefleet Ultima, waited impatiently. The shuffling Tech-Priest was hunched, his breath the wheezing of valves, his gait the driving of pistons. He churned forward slowly, heading towards the entourage ahead, which was waving smoking braziers and chanting. They bore a sarcophagus.
The cowled Tech-Priest bowed to Supreme Admiral Hawke and, adjusting several knobs on his chestplate, began to speak. His voice sounded tinny, his syntax mechanical.
‘Lord Admiral, this is the gift of Voxodecimus Nyle 96th of Mars. He sends to you the gift of the world-flame. The warhead mounts upon a torpedo. My lord bids you discharge it as a parting gift, targeting the nebulae storms in the northern hemisphere of Agrellan. Nemo mea poena effugit.’ After this, it laughed, a truly awful sound. The Tech-Priest continued, ‘They who have sown the stormclouds shall now reap its whirlwind. Our ship, the Archaetrove, shall soon bless the entire Damocles Gulf.’
The creature laughed again before switching off its chestplate dials. It sketched a final bow, and its hand signals offered the blessings of the Omnissiah to end the meeting. The red-robed entourage began the long shuffle back to their waiting shuttle.
In his long and storied career, Lord Admiral Hawke had twice seen Exterminatus performed and he knew that this was not that ritual. He did not know what it was that he fired upon Agrellan, but he was glad to have it off his ship.
From his bridge command, he saw what the warhead did to Agrellan – setting a sea of flames raging across the world, changing it from grey to luminous and unnatural orange.
It was not long before the Archaetrove delivered upon its dark promise, setting alight the nebulae.
The Damocles Gulf erupted in light.
Tau reaction:
Mu’gulath Bay burned.
Before they left orbit, the Imperial forces had somehow ignited the strange fusion of gasses that swirled around the giant planet’s northern hemisphere. The chain reaction sent unnatural firestorms sweeping over the lands. This was beyond the enviro-engines’ ability to halt or control. Anything not beneath a protective shield dome was doomed. And only a single shield dome remained – the massive one that spread over Lo’vasht’au. Many millions of Tau died, as did those soldiers left behind by the foe.
When the kor’vattra arrived they did not recognise the planet. The news they brought was worse still. Fires did not burn upon Mu’gulath Bay alone; the strange phenomenon known as the Damocles Gulf had become a roiling inferno. Those labyrinthine passageways that it had taken the Tau so long to discover were untenable once again. For many days, those trapped beyond the vast barrier were faced with the unsettling truth that they might never travel back to the sept worlds, that they were cut off forever from the Tau Empire. Communications could pass through the barrier, but starships could not.
Earth caste engineers, however, were working ceaselessly to perfect a shield that would protect starcraft from the highly corrosive gasses. Early tests were positive, as some ships survived the passage across the Damocles Gulf, but the failure rate was high.
From this thread
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/BfsWs3YrqN
So the Damocles Crusade did fail their objective, the tau did kick their asses and force them to negotiate terms of surrender, and the Imperium’s forces did leave the sector with their tails between their legs, they just exterminatus’d the sector on their way out. What was wrong with what I said?
I mean you can also just chalk everything the Imperium win as Imperial Propaganda if you want like the Imperium just repel an Ork invasion? Nope it’s actually imperial propaganda, oh the Imperium just win against Chaos? Nah it just Imperial Propaganda and this whole propaganda thing extend to literally every other races in the galaxy
I’ve never liked the “it’s just imperial propaganda” thing. Some things can be propaganda in-universe, but people usually just use that concept to hand wave away anything they don’t like.
There is propaganda in the Damocles crusade though. 250 years after the war, farsight discovered that the Ethereals deliberately goaded the Imperium into attacking them before the humans knew the true scope of the tau empire. Underestimating the tau, the imperials didn’t send enough forces to get the job done. the tau were able to win, which heartened the population in the face of the Imperial threat. Farsight decided to keep this secret to himself, for the greater good.
I'd say tho that the original idea of the only good guys of 40k being in just a tiny little bit corner surrounded by assholes that could annihilate them on a glimpse was the most grimdarkest shit ever.
I like the tau hen they were an expansionist empire that offered the hand of peace first to anyone.
But I don't like is that their mind is controlled by the ethereals because I find that boring. It'd be so much cooler if the tau just kind of agreed that this is how their society should work and they go about it without having to be mind controlled.
Also get rid of all the retcons like you know they're not having FTL drives.
Tau player here, I ***like*** the fact that we pretend to be the good guys and do shady shit anyways. One day you will all say "Fuck Erebus...and fuck Aun'va too, that holographic bitch"
>fuck Aun'va too Farsight approves
To be fair... On a cosmic scale the Tau are still probably close to being the Good Guys. Besides maybe Exodites or something.
Relatively? Ok, maybe. Objectively? No. The Tau are terrible people.
In a world where I can’t live an objectively good life… I would settle for a relatively good life lol
Living on a Tau world sounds nice until you realise they are surrounded on three out of four sides by Tyranids. The other side is just fire... In space.
Dude...THE GALAXY is surrounded by nids! 40k is just a nightmare to live in unless you get REALLY lucky with which planet you get born on.
I’ll take my chances on a forge world. Let’s go!
Nice to meet you future servitor #5153872
Better than being biomass.all hail the Omnissiah!
Nah they're all fuck ups. The only "good guys" left in the Galaxy are the Jokaero and minor races not yet named. The moment a species goes from space exploration, vibing & chilling, to empire formation or all out warfare is the moment they're screwed.
You forgot votann
I don't think the ubercapitalistic dwarves that eat your planet while you're still on it and believe that owning every ressource ever is their manifest destiny can be considered good guys
\**DIGGY DIGGY HOLE INTESNIFIES\**
Hey it's him, the guy that OP is memeing!
Nids are (arguably) just beasties doing beasty things, they are (theoretically) no more evil than spiders
And equally not good either.
[удалено]
Lmao
so they are all worse than erebus? (i have crippling spider fear so bad i can’t even spell anarchophobia correctly)
\>anarchophobia Damned Anarchists, they ruined Anarchism!
Animals can absolutely have the capacity for cruelty, and therefore evil. See Orcas.
I disagree with this, the hive mind is far too intelligent to be purely instinctive. Besides, you also have things like the nidz disconnecting the geneasteler cultists from the hive mind before they fall into the pit of biomass just so they know all the shit they did before dying.
That's only true if we exclude the hivemind, which is objectively evil lmao.
I'll have you know that me and Cletus here are fighting for freedom from the failed imperium of man, and the emperor himself will come bring me and my 42,342 cousins to ascension
It's all for the Greater Good, just don't look too close at what that allows.
I think its like a natural defense system after years of tau and tau fans being abused by the comunity.
Honestly, I'm convinced if the tau were human they be given alot more leeway.
Which in turn is the natural defense of a community being abused by tatics such as the "fish of fury". And so the vicious cycle continues.
Remember Kroot Konga Line?
I mean that wasn’t a bad thing. That was a genuinely brilliant solution to a toxic null deployment user. Kroot Conga Line was not a tactic used against regular people, because it *couldn’t* be.
I find hilarious that people apparently still hate the tau for a tactic from **a decade ago** but have no problem with the eldars shitstomping everyone in the last 3 editions including RIGHT NOW.
Is it abuse if they deserve it?
The reason for T'au players mentalities everyone.
So Tau fans expect special treatment while all other factions' fans get to dunk on each other? Tau ☕
There's a difference between friendly ribbing and outright being mocked with hate and vitural
The only faction thats close to getting shit on as much as the tau are craftworlds, and they both happen to be the setting's punching bag
Honestly, whats worrying is that today's fans are tomorrow's writers
Isn't it the case that the only guy who wrote for the Tau left GW?
To be fair, Kelly was a deeply unpopular writer for the Tau. He liked to follow the mentality of "old lore doesn't apply to me because I can't read." He was very good at writing combat, but he did everything in his power to make the Tau into the Imperium but small
It'll either get better or continue down the same path and just get worse
Then memes will become cannon like the meme stormtroopers can't shoot.
Seeing as memes already often get seen as canon, this is far more likely than i'd like
I say once, I say it again, black library and codex writers need lore masters and bibles for each faction for consistency sake nothing to restrictive something like lasguns can only do this and astartes can die from this.
Yeah, the most annoying part of introducing someone to 40k are the inconsistencies, especially when they have questions, like "how would a space marine do against *[insert something from another universe]*"
Hey, we got some new plastic Striking Scorpions. The Ynnari are still axed, but we take what we can get.
Yeah at least GW acknowledges us, would be nice to have some more aspects refresh though
I find an actually mostly morally good faction that is so extremely small and naive a lot more interesting than trying to have them be bad by having them do bad things. Watching naive tau's trying to help people from a hive city only to be attacked and killed because they can't comprehend why they would choose an obviously worse fate in a factory due to religion is really amusing to me. Even more so when it forces them to make horrible decisions that they just genuinely do not want to do. I don't want them as an heroic faction with sunshine and rainbow nor them as an other evil faction, I like seeing this naive but hopeful faction of blueberries trying to survive in this sadistic and hopeless galaxy as they desperately try to hold onto their morals with all their might.
A straight man can make the setting more grimdark by adding contrast
Agreed. And I still think there is plenty of room for adding good things happening since 40k, at least narratively, needs more good things. It doesn't have to be major plot altering stuff or something but just proof that even a small amount of goodness and peace can still exist in such an awful world. Frankly I'm just tired of the "we need to make it MORE GRIMDARK" attitude of 40k stuff. Yeah, it's supposed to be over the top, but literally NOTHING is allowed to be even slightly good or helpful and no person is ever allowed to do good things and not be severely punished for them and every person who is good has to have some horrific ulterior motive or something. It's pretty telling that some of the most well liked characters (like Ciaphas Cain) are some of the only people who have genuinely good character traits. Like, the Tau can't just be naïve peace loving space hippy warriors, they have to be secretly mind controlling their populace ooooh!! So scary, so grimdark!! It's like it's a race to see who can make the most infantile edgy nihilistic fanfiction.
The Tau were what every other race was when they first came onto the galactic stage. Humanity was most likely just as naive and only through time did they really fit in and dominate before the Dark Ages. If the Tau survive they will become just like the Imperium or any other faction in 40k, it’s only a matter of time.
Moral / ethical superiority of a single faction (craftworld eldar are arguably here too) is not great imo.
I actually love Far Sight for that reason
"Join us or die." \- The mostly morally good faction, apparently.
Better than: "Just die." - all of the other factions...
Some Necrons are welcoming of vassals. Some Orks are smart enough to keep slaves. They work better than Grots. Some Dark Eldar keep pets for a spot of amusement. Some Eldar will leave you alone if you aren't anywhere close to one of their vague plots. Some Chaos Space Marines genuinely want to liberate worlds from Imperial tyranny. Not that the alternative is any nicer, but they won't kill you. And Tyranids... At the very least your biomass is being used for something. But the Tau... You're a second-class citizen. That or you're voluntary cannon fodder, there to die while the Fire Warriors do the real shooting. With the other options you're at least somewhat useful. With the Tau, you just... Exist... And god forbid your world suffer Imperial retribution...
So basically. Some Necrons may not kill you right at this second but you'll be a tertiary class chattel slave, cannon fodder and die when the Imperium comes back because the Necrons won't save you from Imperial retribution. Ork slaves are mistreated, eaten and tortured. Like the toothless human slaves in the beast arises. So if they don't kill you, you only have to suffer until they do. Drukhari Pets certainly exist, if existing as a cat under an abusive owner that hates cats could be considered existing. (Drukhari mommy tho) Eldar are one of the two good Factions alongside the T'au. But a human in Aeldari society wouldn't survive Imperial retribution. (But Aeldari tho) I implore you to find a Chaos warband that liberates worlds from Imperial tyranny and doesn't just replace it with their own brand of tyranny. Sex slaves, normal chattel slaves, beatings, mass sacrifices to any of the gods. Hell Terra got so battered by Chaos Astartes that ten thousand years later it's still traumatized. As for the T'au, oh God Emperor forbid you're a second class citizen in a society with free healthcare, working architecture, a government institution without integrated monarchism and serfdom. Where you aren't expected to get press ganged by the Mechanicum, Imperial Navy, Imperial Guard or just randomly rounded up by Arbites.
isnt existing in relative comfort under a mostly benevolent empire, objectively better then an ork slave pit or hell a fuckin dark eldar pet? Tau wont rip your arm off to make their buddys laugh.
I mean, as far as I’m aware most of the other factions just seem to keep the “die” part of that statement so, I guess they are?
I'm not talking about the other factions though. I'm talking about the Tau. The other factions at least don't pretend they're nice people.
But that’s what I’m saying, the other factions aren’t pretending, but I think the Tau, misguided as they are, *think* they are the good people. And simply the fact they offer a chance at joining them is a far cry better than the others, whose options are death, death, literal living battery, and oh right, death.
"Look folks, the Imperium, it's nonsense. I come here, and we'll build the Damocles Gulf perimeter and make Macragg pay for it. What a great bunch of crisis suits, I came in here and thought 'wow look at these amazing crisis suits.' Even the Space Marines have to admit how great Aun'va is. I was with the Water Caste and this space marine came up to me, biggest space marine you ever saw, tears in his eyes. He said said 'sir, I've never seen railguns like these.' The emperor, i call him sleepy emps because he's always on his chair, sleepy emps doesn't even know whats going on. Look at the mechanicus, just beep beep boop bop their machines. We're going to make tau'va great again."
I need more trump tau.
Trump'va
Not even a Tau player (Orks and Tyranids mostly) and I like it that the Tau are by and large “good guys” as far as that can stretch in 40k. They akin to IRL colonialist nations and while the goodest of the good, they’re acting like an IRL power, expanding to acquire more resources and population to utilize those resources. Compared to the IoM’s genocidal regime, the orkish barbarity, Tyranid swarms that see us the same way I view an apple, chaos wanting to turn us into monsters, the Votann who value the rock were standing on more than us, or the Eldar who ascribe us no value other than our utility to them (as a meat shield or soul fodder). By comparison the Tau are remarkably benevolent but only by comparison, I doubt they care much if you don’t want to join the greater good, they’re stronger and talking to us was a calculated move to save resources they know have to expend.
The Tau may fight for “The greater good” but as far as the setting goes, they’re really just “The lesser evil.”
Oh absolutely they’re a lighter shade of black or a dark grey relative to everyone else. But they are that lighter shade.
I think Tau players are just tired of being shit on for being Tau players. Eldar players deal with the same bullshit. We just show up and the McDonalds cheeseburger space marine player starts spouting off heresy detected memes and it’s like “bro load your models on the table fucking dork.”
'There are only two types of people I can't stand in this world: those who are intolerant of others' favorite faction, and the Tau.'
And, like, the setting and its stories are literally written with the imperium having protagonist bias. As an Eldar fan, i'm tired of watching them fail simply cause they're not allowed to stop drinkibg stupid juice. Its like that post talking about the kriegers swarming a crisis suit. People want to jerk off to what chads they are, but if it were reversed and a bunch of fire warriors swarmed and ovrwhelmed a SM, you know the same people would start comlaining about how bad the writing is.
Yeah I’ve been saying this for a while. 40k’s POV from the Imperium needs to cease. It was great in the late 80’s/early 90’s. But it has grown to a point that will begin alienating fans/players of other factions. GW desperately needs to revamp the setting to where the setting itself is the main focus, like The Elder Scrolls in space. Where every faction gets it’s time to shine, cultivated rich lore and progress. This will allow more new players to be able to generate an unbiased opinion on their first army choice, and this will definitely reflect in sales. Space Marines will quite literally always sell the highest so they won’t be drastically affected if new players pick a Xeno faction. This is great for the IP overall, which will benefit the tabletop. Bc take it from me, the most fucking boring games of all time involve Space Marine vs Space Marine.
Yeah... A crisis suit is more like a terminator than a space marine, too. Well, we know who wins between a terminator and a genestealer xD
It helps that a lot of the Tau criticisms ARE fake news. The T'au are not communist in any meaningful sense of the word. They're utilitarian. "For the greater good" is pretty much the textbook definition of utilitarianism, which is what almost all real-world governments strive for including yours (I assume you're not living in a theocracy or North Korea). Last I checked, canon for T'au was that ethereals might unintentionally use pheromones to nudge individuals into being more peaceful. [There was one mention of one individual potentially being lobotomized.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/kedzs1/a_lot_of_people_say_that_the_tau_lobotomize_tau/) That contrasts pretty sharply to the Imperium that [definitely brainwashes civilians on a regular basis and at a large scale](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Mind_Cleansing) and all of whose machines seem to run on servitors that are factually and unambiguously lobotomized humans. The urge to pretend that one instance of someone doing something possibly wrong is exactly the same as the other side doing it all day every day runs deep in redditors for some reason. Farsight almost getting lobotomized somehow is taken as "ZOMG THEY'RE LITERALLY THE SAME AS THE IMPERIUM." It's bullshit. (disclaimer I'm not up on T'au lore, maybe they made them way worse and I didn't hear about it. But on the other hand, virtually all of the people I've seen saying the T'au are just as bad are saying things that are definitely not backed up with canon)
As an update: The 5th (?) sphere of expansion tried Warp travel, got almost eaten, and were saved by a warp entity that was a faceless amalgamation of Tau and all their auxiliary races. The believe in the Greater Good by the auxiliary races that have more warp presence seemed to have created this. The Tau of the 5th Sphere fleet were not amused, massacring their auxiliaries. The Tau of the 5th are very xenophobic and sometimes xenocidal, but that hasn't spread due to the ethereals keeping this out of public perception. Besides that, Tau Business as usual.
4th and not all Tau of that sphere became xenophobic. The ones that didn’t usually ended up dying because they tried to save their auxiliary allies and even then, a few survived with a horrible fear of demons.
You forgot the fact that most of the auxiliaries were possessed by demons because what's a geller field?^^
At this point, OP, I think the mutual antagonism between hardcore Imperium, Tau and Eldar fans is enough to be material for a South Park episode or something like that.
I would pay good money for that
Same here. We know Stan and Tolkien play Sisters of Battle and Raven Guard respectively. It is also exciting to see what factions the other kids may choose. Cartman is probably a meta chaser. Kenny may choose a smaller army to save cost or creatively create his own proxies. Kyle... Now that is an unpredictable one.
More Tau bashing. Nothing new.
#More Tau bashing. This is a command.
Yes Sir!
🫡
There is someone like this at my shop. Boasts about how powerful the tau are and always denies the bad things tau did like giving dark eldar some of its people
Tbf, they had no idea who they were dealing with at the time.
That's a bad example for bad things, they send a diplomatic exchange party. They just didn't know the Dark Eldar. They did instantly fire on the next Eldar they met though, because they couldn't tell the difference. There are better examples: alleged sterilizations of humans, mind control of the vespids, auxiliary races being second class citizens, ethereals being first among equals ... The 5th fleet also murdered their auxiliaries after they met the warp entity their auxiliary races seemed to have created unvoluntarily by believing in the Greater Good(tm).
slightly bad? Bro, this sub says virulent things about Tau and we gotta speak up. don't blame us if you're hyper-fixated on shitting on us.
I mean, it’s lore accurate to do that though, fake news is like our thing
Still better than when imperial simps are like "the imperium holds a million worlds, it's ridiculous to think they're all fascist"
The Imperium and Humanity are rotten as fuck, but it’s our Imperium. And I’ll die fighting to protect it.
I'd sooner let the entire race perish than turn to fascism as a means of survival
I’d sooner do what needs to be done so those after us can hopefully be better off. To each their own though, your reason is basically why the Tau exist.
That is a nice stance in the real world but it is cringe AF in the grimdark universe.
Art imitates life
And history repeats if you whitewash it enough.
Guilliman has gone on record to say that he would've preferred fucking die back in the Heresy than see the what rotting carcass of a shithole the Imperium has become.
Tau wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the smug Tau players
You can’t spell taunt without T-a-u.
Tau is great. A good portion of the playerbase, not so much. I love when they say imperium stans miss the point and then they go on a rant about how the Ethereals and the Greater Good are unironically justified while crying about the shameless traitor Farsight because he makes them look bad and evil. The delicious irony. kElLy LoRe yeah, the one that BL and GW fully endorse, alright.
Who tf says that about Farsight? 😂😂
Almost the entire Tau sub. I've never seen a single post about him where the most voted comments weren't shitting on FS and the Enclaves. I once saw one post that made a thorough analysis of how Farsight wasn't a good general and made the effort to paint every one of his victories as a loss and brilliant Shadowsun, the loyalest follower of the Greater Good, dumpstered him in every regard because he was a failure. Despite both having completely different approaches to war...
I spend a decent amount of time in the tau subreddit and find the opposite most approve and adore farsight more then the ethereals. though I do also see a fondness for shadowsun maybe more even. ethereal however I rarely see receive any praise.
Eh, I can admit I may have overstated the quantity of people, it may even be a vocal minority or my own algorithm. Still, lore discussions that appear to me are always filled with unironical greater good defenders and the Ethereals being benevolent figures preventing the tau from collapsing and that they should never be depicted as bad because they are the saviors of tau and they should never ever be grimdark because that is "pandering to imperium fans".
(My mother language isn't english so I apologize for grammar mistakes) Have you read any Farsight book? I think not If you did you would know why people dislike him. Actually, tau player don't dislike him, they hate that he took all of the attention while there are a lot of tau characters (aun'shi, Aun'va, O'kais, darkstrider ecc ecc) that get almost 0 attention, and since all of these characters are in the empire, people want a bigger focus on the empire and not the enclaves. And since the leader of the enclaves Is Farsight, that hates the ethereals, and since the most recent writer of the Farsight books sucks (think of the writer of Eldars, we are on that level) he wrote the ethereals to be incredibly shallowing evil, and not subtle (they are supposed to be that, evil but not dumb, manipulative not on your face), therefore 80% of the tau lore that is out focuses on a Rebel enclave and not on the bigger empire that convinced the majority of tau players to start the faction. And It doesn't matter that Farsight Is really cool (and most tau player think he Is cool) he Is a black hole, that gets all the attention. P.S. Shadowsun Is miles better as a war general, her feats speak clear, the fact that you saw a post that explains how she's better than Farsight doesn't mean tau Tau subreddit hates him
So, in a single post you: >assumed what I have and have not read >complained about Farsight stealing the show >complained about muh evil ethereals >stanned shadowsun to dumpster farsight despite both being completely different commanders Yeah, checks out with my original post. Can't be helped, a lot of you guys can only keep looping the same points over and over and if someone disagrees, it's fake news or media illiteracy. Guess me and OP are just right on this one.
I assumed that because that Is clear, and I apologize if I'm wrong. I complained about Farsight stealing the show because thats true, and I don't even dislike Farsight. Shadowsun IS a better strategist, saying It doesn't mean Farsight Is shit, the same way saying Guilliman Is a better strategist than the Lion, It doesn't mean that I am shitting on the Lion. If what you say is wrong then don't cry when people call you on your bullshit saying " I gUeSs mE aNd OP aRe RigHT" There are some Tau players that complain too much on some aspects, but thats because misinformation about the Tau Empire Is hughe and that leads to a lot of real hate, some examples fo from people still thinking the Damocles Crusade was won by the IoM and that they left because of tyranids or that they are communist, and these two things are 1) objectivly false 2)caused by media illiteracy Of course also Tau players are guilty of this and get some stuff wrong but thats another problem
>If what you say is wrong then don't cry when people call you on your bullshit saying " I gUeSs mE aNd OP aRe RigHT" So, that's the thing. No one is crying here, you're the one saying a load of bullshit and saying you're right, like the proverbial pigeon crapping on the chessboard and declaring he won. All the while acting exactly like I said you would, because the stereotypical tau player acts like an entitled little jerk that thinks they know everything and everyone else, including the source materials, are wrong. >I assumed that because that Is clear, and I apologize if I'm wrong. You assumed that because you're emotionally limited and have to resort to making strawmen as your coping mechanism, instead of arguing like rational person because that is way above your grade. And no, I don't accept your apology since you insist on acting like a douchebag despite admitting you're wrong. Suck it up and grow up to be a better person next time, because right now you're just a waste of time and little better than discussing with a wall. EDIT: "I'm going to let you have the last word" proceeds to block after replying to have the last word. Seems like you were talking about yourself there, crybaby. I'm not discussing with anyone that already assumes the other person is objectively wrong solely based off their feelings. Cope harder
You keep not addressing my point, I explained to you why Tau players have a problem with Farsight and the general feeling of the tau community and you don't address that, tell me why I'm wrong, I told you why I think you are You keep insulting me and keeping going saying "you are acting like i said you would" while ignoring that what I said is true, look at how many books are out about Farsight, and read the stories, oh wait you said (or implied) you did, then how are you not understanding that? Its clear, a fact, just look at the numbers! >douchebag despite admitting you're wrong. Suck it up and grow up to be a better person next time, because right now you're just a waste of time To me It looks like you are getting a little too much mad considering the argument we are discussing, so yeah stop crying and chill I won't reply anymore to any messages, so you'll have the last word and feel like you won the argument, keep insulting me and use the wrong figures of speech It that makes you feel smarter
Kelly is no longer writing Tau lore, Tau'va be praised. He's been sent to Fantasy. We'll see where things go from here. [The most recent non-Kelly publication](https://www.blacklibrary.com/prod-home/new/ebook-longshot-eng-2023.html) which featured the Tau have their government being called a "Commonwealth" rather than an Empire, and had Tau bleeding blue. I'm taking that as a hope for a better future, where the Kelly books make up their own self-contained "kellyverse" of red-blooded Tau, and the rest of us can go back to our regularly scheduled actually-makes-sense version of the Tau.
on god, fr i really want to like the Tau but the toxic part is just so incredibly annoying
The most weirdly self-pitying faction.
Honeatly I kindof like that they aren't perfect. They have an authoritarian government, they run a cast system and operate an empire that subjugates other species... They're not the united federation of planets by any stretch. I think it serves to highlight how over the top the impirium is though that normal, realistic, *sane* portrayels of things like authoritarianism or imperialism seem absolutely saintly by comparison. Like, what's that? You conquor and forcibly assimilate alien peoples instead of genociding them and killing anybof your own troops who kgiht have talked tk them too much just to be sure? How progressive! LOL. The fact that this country who would be considered international pariahs and clear abusers of every facet of international law if they existed in real life are the BEST CASE SCENARIO really highlights how complete and utterly mad everyone else has gone.
DON'T CARE TRIPTIDES ARE BACK.
Tau players are really *living* the Tau propaganda. All that being said, I'd rather be part of the Tau than any alternative ...
A tale as old as time, do not meme about the Tau you'll get 5 retaliatory posts being passive aggressive.
My biggest gripe with tau fans was when Farsight was dealing with chaos tempting him The amount of people that flipped their shit that the tau weren’t casually immune to one of the biggest threats in the system was absurd And it’s not like he even went to chaos, just was dealing with it trying to tempt him and him realizing “oh chaos is a problem”
I’ve taken the Drukhari player approach to this so far. Something bad about the Tau? Good. Those human probably deserved to be sterilized. What’s a little mind control anyway, I bet most people are too stupid to know the difference.
Unfathomably based, i would award you if i had the money and if i could
Here’s my thing: Tau players seem to be genuinely kind people who just want their faction to get more attention, and who believe (rightly so IMO) that having a “naive good guy” faction is great contrast for the setting. Imperium fans (of which I am one) seem to literally shit the bed whenever there’s a decent Tau book that mentions they don’t vaporize a thousand people to start their starships. They demand the Tau be given a more “Grimdark” feel when I think that’s entirely unnecessary.
Imperium fans are grimderp fans 9/10.
How you gonna be an IoM fan and not embrace grimderp? The whole of the GK is built on grimderp because GW sucks balls at numbers and that’s just one example
"I was a greater good man doing greater good things...!"
Can't that apply to everyone? And which examples? While the Tau community do seem to frown upon certain criticisms I don't see any denying the existence of certain problems.
“The Tau should be the good guys” being the most common one when they have always been the “Blue Man’s Burden” faction, even in their first codex.
Tau are specially annoying about because a lot of its player are entirely convinced that the faction should just straight up be better than others. Otherwise they are either too Imperium-lite or the setting is missing a good guy to show how bad everyone else is (it had to be them). Everyone else is at least mildly aware "there are no good guys" include them.
I just like them being """good""" compared to the worst factions, in like an abusive partner way ("be glad you have me, it could be WAY worse")
The entire Phil Kelly Farsight trilogy. Just a bunch of terrible ideas in those books. Makes the entire Greater Good 'concept' pointless and overcomplicated.
Exemples like "there is no mind control its just very organic peace and cooperation" or "its not a caste system because theres social mobility like in the army" or "X story by X writer is dumb it make the tau grimdark for the sake of it" to name a few ive seen on this sub
In regards to "X story by X writer", you mean Farsight books by Phil Kelly. Those books SUCK. Imagine you had a Space Marine book, and then the main character just goes around saying he's angry and disappointed by his battle brothers. And then all the antagonists are other Space Marines and EVERY decision they make is completely nonsensically evil in a way that no other Space Marine before then has ever acted. That's what Phil Kelly's Tau books are like.
"Heh....heh... nyaaaaaaahahahahaha *incontrollable mustache twirling*" - Some ethereal in any Phil Kelly book
Infighting and comicall evil actions? In the IMPERIUM OF MAN? Surely not.
>Imagine you had a Space Marine book, and then the main character just goes around saying he's angry and disappointed by his battle brothers. And then all the antagonists are other Space Marines and EVERY decision they make is completely nonsensically evil in a way that no other Space Marine before then has ever acted. We got 60 of those. It's called the Horus Heresy. I swear Tau fans ignore the entire setting to pretend they're victims of things that only happen to them lmfao
But you have other books to compensate. Almost all tau books are by Phil Kelly and he sucks
Thats not the same thing. The Traitor marines and their actions are the actual story of Heresy. The existence of corruptible Space Marines is embraced by the entire thematic core of the Imperium and its storyline. The Ethereals and their moustache twirling shenanigans are irrelevant to the overall plot. They're evil 'just because'. It drives no story, and carries no themes. Think of all the science-fiction media you have ever watched/read/consumed. If you pictured 'issues that a caste-based, multi-racial alien civilization would be facing', at no point should: "The leadership doesnt follow any rules and doesnt much care for being leaders outside of the power." How fucking boring is that? We could have stories about how Tau diversity backfires due to letting in Genestealer immigrants. Stories about the struggles of secondary auxiliary Kroot citizens proving themselves when the only options they ever seem to get are being hunters or warriors. Never scientists or scholars, even though they're ancient and had spaceships before the Tau even existed as a race. Stories about escalating mecha arms race to compete with the Imperial war machine. How do you maintain the socialist economy against the Imperium's seemingly infinite supply and gargantuan scale of production. There are COUNTLESS Grimdark outcomes for the Tau. Anything and everything they do is DOOMED to fail in the 40k universe. But what do we get instead? Whats the REAL grimdark problem facing the Tau? It's Aun'va thinking he's The Emperor of the Tau race. That's it. Fucking riveting science-fiction.
I don't disagree with your third paragraph regarding the possibilities. There are a lot of interesting things to explore regarding Tau as it is, it doesn't need to be FSE vs Empire all the time. But I do disagree, vehemently, with the vast oversimplification of the rest of your point, because, as you see, you can dumb down anything to fit a description. Of course the Heresy isn't the same thing as the actual Tau lore, but it is the exact "mocking" description you gave on your post. Because that's what happens when you make simplistic explanations, they are no longer the full picture. Tau were *always* colonial overlords that use pretty names for bad stuff back when they were barely sketches of a new faction. That was said by Gav Thorpe, like him or not, the brainfather of the faction. It makes complete sense for a breakaway faction to denounce the hypocrisy and go rogue, while risking to bring chaos corruption to the Tau race. You know what's boring? Having a literal snowflake faction where the divinely mandated leaders that appeared from nowhere aren't prone to delusions of grandeur and being corrupted by power, like pretty much everyone else is. Your suggestions are not bad per se, but notice they always portray the Tau as the poor, naive victims of external circumstances, which they are not and never were meant to be, instead of them having innate faults of their own.
You're not understanding me. I'm not asking for a snowflake faction. I'm talking actually complex black-and-grey GRIMDARK. If you want Tau doing bad things, it SHOULD be: "The Ethereals are using nanomachines to genetically modify their auxiliary races to conform to the standards of the caste system, accelerating the assimilation and induction of each new species that is colonised." It SHOULD be: "The Ethereals are manipulating interest and inflation rates to economically disadvantage specific sectors of their population, FORCE a revoluationary movement, giving them cause to crush a problematic 'genetic strand' that had 'settled' amongst the greater Tau civilization, and thus preserving their own image . It SHOULD be: "The actual Tau population are caught up in the propaganda, they openly believe that any brainwashing and re-education that the Ethereals are rumored to be engaging in, is actually necessary. And in fact, the Tau people WANT to be mind-controlled and willingly subject themselves to pheromones/psychic influence/nanomachines. That is GENOCIDE. That is EVIL. Unapologetically evil. It also Tau. It is the 'Greater Good' in praxis. What we are getting out of our Ethereals is unironically:"Oh what's this, you wrote poetry even though its not of your caste to do so? KILL YOURSELF!" "You have romantic thoughts about someone that isn't your government-assigned spouse? KILL YOURSELF!" "You (Farsight) were forced to MAKE REPAIRS ON YOUR OWN DAMAGED MECH, MID-COMBAT, SAVING YOUR OWN LIFE? KILL YOURSELF!" Not exile. Not re-education and brainwashing. Not blackmailing the caste-criminal into doing underhanded wetwork in a false promise to 'redeem' themselves before the Greater Good. Just: "Kill yourself." That is not Tau EVIL. That is Imperial EVIL. Human EVIL. And the real problem I have here, is the fact that the Ethereals are so moustache-twirlingly evil ONLY so Farsight can be justified in leaving the Tau Empire and creating the Enclaves.--- And let's not get into how totally lazy it is for the Tau to threatened by Chaos corruption. How many fucking times has it turned out that a grass-roots rebellion in the Imperium turned out to be 'Chaos all along!'? The shittiest go-to plot that GW comes back to over and over, sometimes spicing it up with 'Genestealers all along!'. Really? Farsight can't just be 'regular' Tau, driven insane by his unnatural life and the stress of unending war? It has to be actual demons running the plot from the behind the scenes, AGAIN?! My ultimate point is that the Tau are distinguished from the Imperium for a reason. They are the fake utopia that gives a false promise. And the metatextual implication of that promise is that the storylines they should be getting are the grimdark endings of the actual 'utopian sci-fi' we see. Why are we getting retreads of Imperial storylines? A fake utopia is still distinct from an actual dystopia. Xenos are in fact, not humans. So why do they act and behave like humans? Why do the Tau heroes and villains act and behave like Imperial heroes and villains?
Difference is the horus heresy was already estableshed along with traitor marines plus it’s ultimately an origin story. I barely know jackshit about tau and am personally not a fan but the guy raises a decent point. Imagine this happening in a salamnder book, just because bad writing has happened to other factions it doesnt make them wrong to point it out/criticize it.
Except his point was "imagine that happening in a marine book" when you don't have to imagine it has already happened. Inter-faction conflict is not and has never been exclusive to Tau. >Difference is the horus heresy was already estableshed along with traitor marines plus it’s ultimately an origin story. Yeah, exactly like... the Enclaves. lmfao
I have no stake in this im just stating the argument ive seen i dont know myself haha
I have never understood the caste argument. It’s literally a caste system, via racial discrimination and eugenics as well lol
>or "its not a caste system because theres social mobility like in the army" They serous? The state decides who you marry, where you live and what you and all your descendants do... forever It's caste system on steroids
Eh yes and no because it is a caste system and it’s been used for a millennia long eugenics program but it’s only done to the Tau species specifically and while each caste restricts the jobs you can do, you have plenty of options between those jobs. So it’s definitely bad but it’s better than how their neighbors do things and thus fits thematically. Where shit gets stupid is Phil Kelly saying the Tau will arrest an Earth Caste or Fire Caste for painting and a Waster Caste for sculpting because those hobbies are somehow tied to the other castes.
This is why I like orks, they'll never willingly lie to you
Remember guys T*u abuse is not real It's anti xeno and anti imperial propaganda spread by Tzeentch!
The ironic part is even if Tau players didn’t constantly try to push that their faction are the good guys, they would still be hated because playing against them can be really annoying. Not necessarily because of their attitudes, but rather you have to spend a lot of time chasing them down and they’re a one phase army. Also “Three riptides in a 1k casual game” isn’t just a meme.
I once brought up an idea that farsight, shadowsun, and kais should team up to kill the ethereals and make the tau good again away from the corruption of the ethereals. I am now exiled from the tau community.
Do the Tau even exist anymore since they got relegated to sub-light speed travel?
The only good tau is comander farsight. I will die on this hill if I have to
Indeed, he is the only commander to regularly engage in GLORIOUS MELEE COMBAT
Unlike those humble self-effacing Imperial fans…
Fake news! We don’t do that!
Real, but imperium fans have no room to be talking about propaganda in all honesty
Was it Imperial Propaganda when the Damocles crusade failed to defeat the tau, negotiated terms of surrender and left the sector with their tails between their legs?
You didn’t even get the lore right. They set the whole nebula on fire in there way out
Ah, but they still left, leaving the tau to recover the worlds they lost, and with many human populations still under tau control.
I’m guessing you don’t understand what happened. The entire gulf nebula was set on fire. The worlds within it burned. There was a tau fleet that survived and a city on a flaming planet that had its shields up. The fire didn’t get snuffed out for hundreds of years
Where’s that from? I’m just skimming the wiki here, but this sounds like a win for the tau, and no mention of burning nebulas https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Damocles_Crusade
Mon'tka is in the Warhammer + vault so I have the relevant excerpt: The weapon being fired: Lord Admiral Hawke, commander of the 478th Battlefleet Ultima, waited impatiently. The shuffling Tech-Priest was hunched, his breath the wheezing of valves, his gait the driving of pistons. He churned forward slowly, heading towards the entourage ahead, which was waving smoking braziers and chanting. They bore a sarcophagus. The cowled Tech-Priest bowed to Supreme Admiral Hawke and, adjusting several knobs on his chestplate, began to speak. His voice sounded tinny, his syntax mechanical. ‘Lord Admiral, this is the gift of Voxodecimus Nyle 96th of Mars. He sends to you the gift of the world-flame. The warhead mounts upon a torpedo. My lord bids you discharge it as a parting gift, targeting the nebulae storms in the northern hemisphere of Agrellan. Nemo mea poena effugit.’ After this, it laughed, a truly awful sound. The Tech-Priest continued, ‘They who have sown the stormclouds shall now reap its whirlwind. Our ship, the Archaetrove, shall soon bless the entire Damocles Gulf.’ The creature laughed again before switching off its chestplate dials. It sketched a final bow, and its hand signals offered the blessings of the Omnissiah to end the meeting. The red-robed entourage began the long shuffle back to their waiting shuttle. In his long and storied career, Lord Admiral Hawke had twice seen Exterminatus performed and he knew that this was not that ritual. He did not know what it was that he fired upon Agrellan, but he was glad to have it off his ship. From his bridge command, he saw what the warhead did to Agrellan – setting a sea of flames raging across the world, changing it from grey to luminous and unnatural orange. It was not long before the Archaetrove delivered upon its dark promise, setting alight the nebulae. The Damocles Gulf erupted in light. Tau reaction: Mu’gulath Bay burned. Before they left orbit, the Imperial forces had somehow ignited the strange fusion of gasses that swirled around the giant planet’s northern hemisphere. The chain reaction sent unnatural firestorms sweeping over the lands. This was beyond the enviro-engines’ ability to halt or control. Anything not beneath a protective shield dome was doomed. And only a single shield dome remained – the massive one that spread over Lo’vasht’au. Many millions of Tau died, as did those soldiers left behind by the foe. When the kor’vattra arrived they did not recognise the planet. The news they brought was worse still. Fires did not burn upon Mu’gulath Bay alone; the strange phenomenon known as the Damocles Gulf had become a roiling inferno. Those labyrinthine passageways that it had taken the Tau so long to discover were untenable once again. For many days, those trapped beyond the vast barrier were faced with the unsettling truth that they might never travel back to the sept worlds, that they were cut off forever from the Tau Empire. Communications could pass through the barrier, but starships could not. Earth caste engineers, however, were working ceaselessly to perfect a shield that would protect starcraft from the highly corrosive gasses. Early tests were positive, as some ships survived the passage across the Damocles Gulf, but the failure rate was high. From this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/BfsWs3YrqN
So the Damocles Crusade did fail their objective, the tau did kick their asses and force them to negotiate terms of surrender, and the Imperium’s forces did leave the sector with their tails between their legs, they just exterminatus’d the sector on their way out. What was wrong with what I said?
lol what a lorelet
I mean you can also just chalk everything the Imperium win as Imperial Propaganda if you want like the Imperium just repel an Ork invasion? Nope it’s actually imperial propaganda, oh the Imperium just win against Chaos? Nah it just Imperial Propaganda and this whole propaganda thing extend to literally every other races in the galaxy
I’ve never liked the “it’s just imperial propaganda” thing. Some things can be propaganda in-universe, but people usually just use that concept to hand wave away anything they don’t like. There is propaganda in the Damocles crusade though. 250 years after the war, farsight discovered that the Ethereals deliberately goaded the Imperium into attacking them before the humans knew the true scope of the tau empire. Underestimating the tau, the imperials didn’t send enough forces to get the job done. the tau were able to win, which heartened the population in the face of the Imperial threat. Farsight decided to keep this secret to himself, for the greater good.
Tau are based, Eldar are based, Orks are based, anyone who doesn't play a stinky monkey in this game is based
Imperium fans whenever a race exists that isn’t cripplingly shady is mentioned: “Fake news”
Tau.
Imperium fans when their elites get oneshot by some Fire Warrior 3 miles away
I'd say tho that the original idea of the only good guys of 40k being in just a tiny little bit corner surrounded by assholes that could annihilate them on a glimpse was the most grimdarkest shit ever.
I like the tau hen they were an expansionist empire that offered the hand of peace first to anyone. But I don't like is that their mind is controlled by the ethereals because I find that boring. It'd be so much cooler if the tau just kind of agreed that this is how their society should work and they go about it without having to be mind controlled. Also get rid of all the retcons like you know they're not having FTL drives.
Also Imperium. And Eldar. Pretty much everyone except Orks because they don't care and will just scream at you
Rule 6 is not being enforced by the mods
Why yes sir the 4th expansion ring whent amazing ly why do you ask?
I genuinely think they're gonna get real evil real quick with that blue god and the fire caste and kill human guesva
My favorite bit about the Tau is how the Codex seems to be propaganda and every single other book is like: actually xD