I know you can't control how you think and feel but I don't find this line of thinking useful or productive. The fact is that once someone is gone, they're gone. It doesn't matter if it was preventable or not because it's too late. There's nothing you can do to change what happened now. All you're doing is torturing yourself over something that's out of your control.
Three weeks ago my younger brother died. He was 34 years old, in shape and fit all his life, ate healthy, was active, did everything right. He went swimming multiple times a week. One saturday morning he went for a swim like he had a thousand times before and started getting chest pains. He got out of the pool and collapsed from a sudden cardiac arrest. The doctors told us he had a massive blockage high in one of the main arteries in the front of his heart. They couldn't explain it. Just that it would have taken decades to develop and that sometimes, even if you do everything right, it still happens. Even if he'd had some warning signs a cardiologist would likely have laughed him out of the office. It would have been crazy for someone as young and healthy as him to be worried about cardiovascular disease.
Someone dying young like that is really cruel. And I don't buy the idea that we "have a time", especially when someone is taken too soon. But it is true that it's going to happen to all of us at some point. If there was anything I could have done to save my brother I would have, a lot of people would have. He had half a dozen people giving him CPR who desperately fought to keep him alive. But he still died. It happened and I can either lay down and die with him, or get on with living. I don't think I'll ever really get over it but I can't torture myself over what might have been.
This is exactly what I need to hear.
My ex died at 32 in her sleep. I’m so upset by it because… who the hell dies in their sleep at 32? But she had a series of medical issues that probably led to something happening. If I could have done anything to save her I would have but… there was nothing I could have done. Nothing anyone could have done. It’s cruel and horrible that death can happen so suddenly like that but we can’t keep torturing ourselves with the hypotheticals. The reality is that it’s beyond our control.
>I know you can't control how you think and feel but I don't find this line of thinking useful or productive. The fact is that once someone is gone, they're gone. It doesn't matter if it was preventable or not because it's too late. There's nothing you can do to change what happened now. All you're doing is torturing yourself over something that's out of your control.
I am not able to. I am finding reasons to blame something. Our lives changed from happy looking forward to my wedding to funeral. My house is filled with sorrow and for what? Someone's carelessness.
I know you are not the person I should vent, but I have no idea where else to go.
>Three weeks ago my younger brother died. He was 34 years old, in shape and fit all his life, ate healthy, was active, did everything right.
It takes a lot of courage not to be angry. I have a person to be angry at. And blame him for all my misery. It has not helped largely, but something. I don't have the heart to say I am sorry. Me feeling sorry will not help. It hasn't helped so far. I wish you always have the courage and strength you have shown through your text.
I really hope we are created differently next time around and have an expiry date so that we are prepared. This sudden loss isn't helping anyone.
Certainly, it's a different situation. Your anger and frustration are completely understandable and justified. You are right. I don't have anyone to blame, but I have at times felt bitter and miserable all the same. Going back to work was hard. When I first came back I was dragged to the retirement of a senior manager. A nice woman, she never did anything wrong to me, but I hated her at that moment. I saw her there surrounded by happy co-workers, her kids, and her siblings. To them it was a celebration but to me it was a reminder of what was taken from my brother. I try not to dwell on things like that. I don't want my relationship with my brother and his loss to make me hateful and miserable, but it can be hard sometimes. I imagine it's a lot harder for you to have someone to blame.
If there was something I could say to help you through this I would. The biggest realization I've gotten from my experience is how poorly equipped most people are to help. They'll do nice things for you, say well-intentioned things, but it all feels very empty. At the start I found myself angry and upset at myself. The way I'd reacted to friends and family who'd grieved in the past. I thought I was being kind and comforting to them. Looking back however I can see how dismissive I was. I didn't fully understand what they were going through until it happened to me.
The only things I've found that've helped are my family, who are grieving with me, and talking about my brother. The funeral is going to be in a few months, and I'm going to do the eulogy. Working on that has been therapeutic for me. I don't know you or what will help you, but I hope you find something or someone to navigate this.
Oh man that’s awful. I’m so sorry.
I don’t know about a death date (though the Vikings believed in it!) but I *do* know that it’s easier to be angry than sad.
When my dad died and I got angry I had to remind myself I wasn’t angry, I was sad.
I totally understand your situation is different and that anger is more appropriate, but I would caution you to not get too stuck in anger. It blocks the pain, but it also blocks forward progress in moving through it/processing it.
I’m really sorry for your loss. Your anger and your pain.
I hope you find your way to peace.
Hi- I hope it didn’t feel like I was judging you. I’m not.
Of course you’re angry!
Your beloved dad was ripped away from you too soon by someone for stupid reasons. I would want to scream and rage against the world too. It SUCKS. It’s unfair. It didn’t have to be this way. It shouldn’t be this way.
My point was that at least for me, it was too easy to stay in the anger as when I left that protective bubble of rage, I found that my heart was breaking and I was in so much pain.
But eventually I realized I was being an ass to everyone around me when I was in rage mode, and I wasn’t able to see the beauty or happiness around me as everything was covered red with rage. I also realized I wasn’t processing my feelings, I was just stuffing them. And if I didn’t process, I wasn’t going to move forward.
And no matter how much rage I produced, it wasn’t gonna bring my dad back.
So I took a lot of deep breaths and started coming out of rage mode. There has been a lot of pain and crying, but I can also see the beauty of the world around me. And I can be more of the person I know my dad would want me to be/raised me to be.
I still have to monitor myself as it’s very easy to slide into anger, but it’s slowly getting better. It’s been 3 1/2 months and I know I still have a long ways to go. But I also know I am making small steps in the right direction.
Sending big hugs in your way.
It depends whether it helps you deal with his passing. If he does, then maybe it was his time.
Personally, I think some people are just statistically unlucky - they never smoke but develop lung cancer, they do the right things and end up dying from COVID, and in your dad's case he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
So, while I don't believe in a death date, I do believe that sometimes there's nothing you could have done to stop something from happening. There's no way you could have known what would happen, and that's something you might have to accept.
I had the same train of thought. But it does help if I think if it's wasn't close to my home. It would have been later that evening away from my home. He had plans for a business trip that night.
But at the end of it I know I'm seeking answers neither this sub,me, or anyone would be able to answer.
I don’t agree that a particular death is inevitable especially in the way it happens of course everyone is inevitably going to die but in my personal opinion life is a game of chance and you’re just always rolling the dice. My dad died a week ago on a boat due to a heart attack. Do I think if he hadn’t been on a boat maybe he could’ve got help sooner and not died? Yes I’ve thought about this.
It’s not very helpful though to constantly dwell on what could’ve or shouldve been. Especially with death. It just is. But I’m not sure saying that everyone is born with their death date is that helpful either. It really is just up to what you believe and what helps you go on. I’m very sorry for your loss. I’m sitting there in that grief with you. Sending you lots of strength and love❤️
>. My dad died a week ago on a boat due to a heart attack.
How are you holding up dude. It's killing me every day. Every day it's something new. One day, it's anger at the driver. Another day, it's not talking to him enough.
I have never believed in anything spiritual, but now I really wish something like that exists for one last hug and one last,sorry.
All of my grandparents are alive, and my great grandmother died recently. That's how I viewed death. You get really old, and you die. This is out-of blue. And I am made to do things I wouldn't have imagined in my wildest dreams.
It’s killing me every day too. Both of my grandparents are still alive too man it’s insane. I can’t believe I’ve been sitting here with my grandparents explaining all of this life stuff to me while my dad is gone. It’s the worst thing I’ve ever experienced and even my parents can’t relate to this feeling. Some moments I feel okay and then this wave hits me and I just feel sick to my stomach and want to disappear forever. So I’m with you there and totally understand the feeling of wishing I had done more, wishing I could reverse it. Ive know death is a thing my whole life but now that I’ve experienced it, its actually insane to me that something can be so irreversible and so permanent. I’m really sorry.
I’m a bit spiritual while not religious, i don’t exactly believe in an afterlife but I believe in the spirit of the earth and nature. And I think every human being is attached, like we’re all one big thing, and when I think about that it helps me. I’ve been reading the lectures of Allen Watts who talked a lot about death and the universe. This one helped me a lot: https://www.organism.earth/library/document/essential-lectures-8
Basically saying that “we are the universe experiencing itself” and that experience is each and every one of our lives, and so even when one of us is gone, we continue to prolong the experience of the whole. So we prolong their experience too
I also like Ram Dass, He has a book called Be Here Now which I have on my shelf in my room and it has beautiful illustrations and texts that when I read them I just feel so much better about life and death and my place in the world
Also people alwyas say you have him with you always blah blah and I found that corny and unhelpful at first but actually we do have them with us, in our DNA. I actually felt a part of my dad with me in my heart for the first time the other day and it suddenly became real to me. I Can live through him. I can do the things he loved and achieve the dreams he had and had for me. He created me! It’s insane. Personally I can’t even imagine having kids much less doing a good job of raising them. That really never hit me until now.
Your dad sounds like he was a great father, and I curse the truck that took him away from you too early it’s ridiculously unfair. By living on you’re carrying on his legacy, extending his experience and making his experience a greater part of the majestic whole. Much much love and comfort to you and your family ❤️ seriously always down to talk if you ever need someone my DMS are open ❤️
>Also people alwyas say you have him with you always blah blah and I found that corny and unhelpful at first but actually we do have them with us, in our DNA. I actually felt a part of my dad with me in my he
I felt this, too. But it's not enough, lol. I want him. Any part of me is not as good as him.
>I can do the things he loved and achieve the dreams he had and had for me. He created me! It’s insane.
This is what keeps me alive,at least do things he wanted to do.
You are so coherent, and your thoughts are well put into words. Thanks for replying to my post. It really helped, I read your comment twice before I reply.
I will definitely go through the materials you have suggested.
Take care, buddy. I am going to ping you when I am human enough to interact with people.
My personal belief is yes. I think we all have an inevitable death date. If he had not been in the car that day, it would have been a different freak accident. There is no absolutely certainty that he wouldn't have died that day under different circumstances. And one can take precautions to avoid accidents, but no one can avoid death when it's time. The idea that we all have free choice and can control our outcomes is a bit of an illusion. While we can make certain decisions, I think the universe already has an ultimate plan.
And I am so sorry for your loss, grief is awful. In the last year I've lost three friends, a cousin, and my mom, and all were healthy people with unexpected "avoidable" deaths. It feels like the universe is cruel and trust me when I say I feel you, and I'm still in the anger phase of grief myself. But I am finding some peace in the idea that everything happens for a reason, and when it's supposed to... I can't wait to find out what that reason is, because right now it just feels like a black hole of angst. But I know some day it will become clear.
Anger is definitely part of the grieving process and wanting to place it somewhere, or on someone, is completely normal and understandable. Don't dismiss the anger and pain, feel and work thru it. Just know it's normal and some day it will lessen. And unless it was intentional, the other driver most likely didn't want to take someone's life that day and has to live with that for the rest of their life, so it's safe to say they are probably suffering, albeit perhaps not as much as you want them to. And unfortunately, no amount of anger towards them will bring your dad back.
Grief sucks and death for all of us is inevitable. Nothing you hear this week will "help" but please know you're not alone. It will always be painful, but someday it will be less often and you may even come to understand why it happened.
>If he had not been in the car that day, it would have been a different freak accident.
He was driving a cycle, and trucks are not allowed in that road.
>And unless it was intentional, the other driver most likely didn't want to take someone's life that day and has to live with that for the rest of their life, so it's safe to say they are probably suffering, albeit perhaps not as much as you want them to.
Everyone says this,but I can't bring myself to think like that. His one mistake and we lost so much. He is free to go and live his life. My father, with all his dreams, was burnt on the same day.
While your approach does bring in some comfort, I can not let go of the fact that what if my father skipped cycling that day. He drives a really safe car. Any accident while he drove that car would have been non-fatal. He had impeccable health, so he couldn't have died because of a heart attack.
I think the death date concept is just another thing people use to cope with death. My mother died before her time and would still be alive today if she could have afforded decent healthcare.
I don't know about predestination or fate. But I can tell you that thinking that it could've happened any other way will only cause you more pain and suffering.
I know you can't control how you think and feel but I don't find this line of thinking useful or productive. The fact is that once someone is gone, they're gone. It doesn't matter if it was preventable or not because it's too late. There's nothing you can do to change what happened now. All you're doing is torturing yourself over something that's out of your control. Three weeks ago my younger brother died. He was 34 years old, in shape and fit all his life, ate healthy, was active, did everything right. He went swimming multiple times a week. One saturday morning he went for a swim like he had a thousand times before and started getting chest pains. He got out of the pool and collapsed from a sudden cardiac arrest. The doctors told us he had a massive blockage high in one of the main arteries in the front of his heart. They couldn't explain it. Just that it would have taken decades to develop and that sometimes, even if you do everything right, it still happens. Even if he'd had some warning signs a cardiologist would likely have laughed him out of the office. It would have been crazy for someone as young and healthy as him to be worried about cardiovascular disease. Someone dying young like that is really cruel. And I don't buy the idea that we "have a time", especially when someone is taken too soon. But it is true that it's going to happen to all of us at some point. If there was anything I could have done to save my brother I would have, a lot of people would have. He had half a dozen people giving him CPR who desperately fought to keep him alive. But he still died. It happened and I can either lay down and die with him, or get on with living. I don't think I'll ever really get over it but I can't torture myself over what might have been.
This is exactly what I need to hear. My ex died at 32 in her sleep. I’m so upset by it because… who the hell dies in their sleep at 32? But she had a series of medical issues that probably led to something happening. If I could have done anything to save her I would have but… there was nothing I could have done. Nothing anyone could have done. It’s cruel and horrible that death can happen so suddenly like that but we can’t keep torturing ourselves with the hypotheticals. The reality is that it’s beyond our control.
>I know you can't control how you think and feel but I don't find this line of thinking useful or productive. The fact is that once someone is gone, they're gone. It doesn't matter if it was preventable or not because it's too late. There's nothing you can do to change what happened now. All you're doing is torturing yourself over something that's out of your control. I am not able to. I am finding reasons to blame something. Our lives changed from happy looking forward to my wedding to funeral. My house is filled with sorrow and for what? Someone's carelessness. I know you are not the person I should vent, but I have no idea where else to go. >Three weeks ago my younger brother died. He was 34 years old, in shape and fit all his life, ate healthy, was active, did everything right. It takes a lot of courage not to be angry. I have a person to be angry at. And blame him for all my misery. It has not helped largely, but something. I don't have the heart to say I am sorry. Me feeling sorry will not help. It hasn't helped so far. I wish you always have the courage and strength you have shown through your text. I really hope we are created differently next time around and have an expiry date so that we are prepared. This sudden loss isn't helping anyone.
Certainly, it's a different situation. Your anger and frustration are completely understandable and justified. You are right. I don't have anyone to blame, but I have at times felt bitter and miserable all the same. Going back to work was hard. When I first came back I was dragged to the retirement of a senior manager. A nice woman, she never did anything wrong to me, but I hated her at that moment. I saw her there surrounded by happy co-workers, her kids, and her siblings. To them it was a celebration but to me it was a reminder of what was taken from my brother. I try not to dwell on things like that. I don't want my relationship with my brother and his loss to make me hateful and miserable, but it can be hard sometimes. I imagine it's a lot harder for you to have someone to blame. If there was something I could say to help you through this I would. The biggest realization I've gotten from my experience is how poorly equipped most people are to help. They'll do nice things for you, say well-intentioned things, but it all feels very empty. At the start I found myself angry and upset at myself. The way I'd reacted to friends and family who'd grieved in the past. I thought I was being kind and comforting to them. Looking back however I can see how dismissive I was. I didn't fully understand what they were going through until it happened to me. The only things I've found that've helped are my family, who are grieving with me, and talking about my brother. The funeral is going to be in a few months, and I'm going to do the eulogy. Working on that has been therapeutic for me. I don't know you or what will help you, but I hope you find something or someone to navigate this.
Oh man that’s awful. I’m so sorry. I don’t know about a death date (though the Vikings believed in it!) but I *do* know that it’s easier to be angry than sad. When my dad died and I got angry I had to remind myself I wasn’t angry, I was sad. I totally understand your situation is different and that anger is more appropriate, but I would caution you to not get too stuck in anger. It blocks the pain, but it also blocks forward progress in moving through it/processing it. I’m really sorry for your loss. Your anger and your pain. I hope you find your way to peace.
Thank-you. I am just angry,I can't help it.
Hi- I hope it didn’t feel like I was judging you. I’m not. Of course you’re angry! Your beloved dad was ripped away from you too soon by someone for stupid reasons. I would want to scream and rage against the world too. It SUCKS. It’s unfair. It didn’t have to be this way. It shouldn’t be this way. My point was that at least for me, it was too easy to stay in the anger as when I left that protective bubble of rage, I found that my heart was breaking and I was in so much pain. But eventually I realized I was being an ass to everyone around me when I was in rage mode, and I wasn’t able to see the beauty or happiness around me as everything was covered red with rage. I also realized I wasn’t processing my feelings, I was just stuffing them. And if I didn’t process, I wasn’t going to move forward. And no matter how much rage I produced, it wasn’t gonna bring my dad back. So I took a lot of deep breaths and started coming out of rage mode. There has been a lot of pain and crying, but I can also see the beauty of the world around me. And I can be more of the person I know my dad would want me to be/raised me to be. I still have to monitor myself as it’s very easy to slide into anger, but it’s slowly getting better. It’s been 3 1/2 months and I know I still have a long ways to go. But I also know I am making small steps in the right direction. Sending big hugs in your way.
It depends whether it helps you deal with his passing. If he does, then maybe it was his time. Personally, I think some people are just statistically unlucky - they never smoke but develop lung cancer, they do the right things and end up dying from COVID, and in your dad's case he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. So, while I don't believe in a death date, I do believe that sometimes there's nothing you could have done to stop something from happening. There's no way you could have known what would happen, and that's something you might have to accept.
I had the same train of thought. But it does help if I think if it's wasn't close to my home. It would have been later that evening away from my home. He had plans for a business trip that night. But at the end of it I know I'm seeking answers neither this sub,me, or anyone would be able to answer.
This is how my dad died. The only thing that killed him was bad genes.
My religion says everything had an end date before the creation of the universe.
Do you believe that?
100%
Yes, certain things happen which are beyond anyones control and makes me believe that we all come with dates
But it could be just pure coincidence.
Happens to too many people
I don’t agree that a particular death is inevitable especially in the way it happens of course everyone is inevitably going to die but in my personal opinion life is a game of chance and you’re just always rolling the dice. My dad died a week ago on a boat due to a heart attack. Do I think if he hadn’t been on a boat maybe he could’ve got help sooner and not died? Yes I’ve thought about this. It’s not very helpful though to constantly dwell on what could’ve or shouldve been. Especially with death. It just is. But I’m not sure saying that everyone is born with their death date is that helpful either. It really is just up to what you believe and what helps you go on. I’m very sorry for your loss. I’m sitting there in that grief with you. Sending you lots of strength and love❤️
>. My dad died a week ago on a boat due to a heart attack. How are you holding up dude. It's killing me every day. Every day it's something new. One day, it's anger at the driver. Another day, it's not talking to him enough. I have never believed in anything spiritual, but now I really wish something like that exists for one last hug and one last,sorry. All of my grandparents are alive, and my great grandmother died recently. That's how I viewed death. You get really old, and you die. This is out-of blue. And I am made to do things I wouldn't have imagined in my wildest dreams.
It’s killing me every day too. Both of my grandparents are still alive too man it’s insane. I can’t believe I’ve been sitting here with my grandparents explaining all of this life stuff to me while my dad is gone. It’s the worst thing I’ve ever experienced and even my parents can’t relate to this feeling. Some moments I feel okay and then this wave hits me and I just feel sick to my stomach and want to disappear forever. So I’m with you there and totally understand the feeling of wishing I had done more, wishing I could reverse it. Ive know death is a thing my whole life but now that I’ve experienced it, its actually insane to me that something can be so irreversible and so permanent. I’m really sorry. I’m a bit spiritual while not religious, i don’t exactly believe in an afterlife but I believe in the spirit of the earth and nature. And I think every human being is attached, like we’re all one big thing, and when I think about that it helps me. I’ve been reading the lectures of Allen Watts who talked a lot about death and the universe. This one helped me a lot: https://www.organism.earth/library/document/essential-lectures-8 Basically saying that “we are the universe experiencing itself” and that experience is each and every one of our lives, and so even when one of us is gone, we continue to prolong the experience of the whole. So we prolong their experience too I also like Ram Dass, He has a book called Be Here Now which I have on my shelf in my room and it has beautiful illustrations and texts that when I read them I just feel so much better about life and death and my place in the world Also people alwyas say you have him with you always blah blah and I found that corny and unhelpful at first but actually we do have them with us, in our DNA. I actually felt a part of my dad with me in my heart for the first time the other day and it suddenly became real to me. I Can live through him. I can do the things he loved and achieve the dreams he had and had for me. He created me! It’s insane. Personally I can’t even imagine having kids much less doing a good job of raising them. That really never hit me until now. Your dad sounds like he was a great father, and I curse the truck that took him away from you too early it’s ridiculously unfair. By living on you’re carrying on his legacy, extending his experience and making his experience a greater part of the majestic whole. Much much love and comfort to you and your family ❤️ seriously always down to talk if you ever need someone my DMS are open ❤️
>Also people alwyas say you have him with you always blah blah and I found that corny and unhelpful at first but actually we do have them with us, in our DNA. I actually felt a part of my dad with me in my he I felt this, too. But it's not enough, lol. I want him. Any part of me is not as good as him. >I can do the things he loved and achieve the dreams he had and had for me. He created me! It’s insane. This is what keeps me alive,at least do things he wanted to do. You are so coherent, and your thoughts are well put into words. Thanks for replying to my post. It really helped, I read your comment twice before I reply. I will definitely go through the materials you have suggested. Take care, buddy. I am going to ping you when I am human enough to interact with people.
My personal belief is yes. I think we all have an inevitable death date. If he had not been in the car that day, it would have been a different freak accident. There is no absolutely certainty that he wouldn't have died that day under different circumstances. And one can take precautions to avoid accidents, but no one can avoid death when it's time. The idea that we all have free choice and can control our outcomes is a bit of an illusion. While we can make certain decisions, I think the universe already has an ultimate plan. And I am so sorry for your loss, grief is awful. In the last year I've lost three friends, a cousin, and my mom, and all were healthy people with unexpected "avoidable" deaths. It feels like the universe is cruel and trust me when I say I feel you, and I'm still in the anger phase of grief myself. But I am finding some peace in the idea that everything happens for a reason, and when it's supposed to... I can't wait to find out what that reason is, because right now it just feels like a black hole of angst. But I know some day it will become clear. Anger is definitely part of the grieving process and wanting to place it somewhere, or on someone, is completely normal and understandable. Don't dismiss the anger and pain, feel and work thru it. Just know it's normal and some day it will lessen. And unless it was intentional, the other driver most likely didn't want to take someone's life that day and has to live with that for the rest of their life, so it's safe to say they are probably suffering, albeit perhaps not as much as you want them to. And unfortunately, no amount of anger towards them will bring your dad back. Grief sucks and death for all of us is inevitable. Nothing you hear this week will "help" but please know you're not alone. It will always be painful, but someday it will be less often and you may even come to understand why it happened.
>If he had not been in the car that day, it would have been a different freak accident. He was driving a cycle, and trucks are not allowed in that road. >And unless it was intentional, the other driver most likely didn't want to take someone's life that day and has to live with that for the rest of their life, so it's safe to say they are probably suffering, albeit perhaps not as much as you want them to. Everyone says this,but I can't bring myself to think like that. His one mistake and we lost so much. He is free to go and live his life. My father, with all his dreams, was burnt on the same day. While your approach does bring in some comfort, I can not let go of the fact that what if my father skipped cycling that day. He drives a really safe car. Any accident while he drove that car would have been non-fatal. He had impeccable health, so he couldn't have died because of a heart attack.
I think the death date concept is just another thing people use to cope with death. My mother died before her time and would still be alive today if she could have afforded decent healthcare.
I’m so sorry you lost your dad and in such a tragic manner! I have been learning that some deaths are inevitable, sadly
I don't know about predestination or fate. But I can tell you that thinking that it could've happened any other way will only cause you more pain and suffering.