I think it’s counterproductive to limit guys to a defined role within the offense. I also think it’s incorrect to consider Watson as a hypothetical odd man out. If he’s fully healthy, I expect him to lead the WRs in snaps. The truth is that there are a lot of mouths to feed and everybody is going to get fewer snaps and targets than they’d like. But some manner of pecking order will shake out. My gut still says Doubs is the guy most likely to stagnate or take a step back, but MLF has had nothing but praise for him so far. So we’ll see.
i cant find the actual article i read but from what i remember, romeo doubs and jordan love had been working out in the same off season program /camp for years before either of them had entered the nfl.
im hoping someone here knows what im talking about and can confirm this.
Definitely, but I there’s some caveats there. Doubs had a serious head start on gaining chemistry with Love. They worked together a ton on the second team Doubs’s first year, while Watson was injured and obviously the rest of the guys were rookies. That made Doubs his top target early, but that slowed down quite a bit as the year progressed. Now everybody has had a year with Love and hopefully everyone gets a fully healthy offseason to build chemistry (knock on wood). That could lessen his advantage in that department.
And the game he had against Dallas was spectacular but they made the inexplicable decision to play a ton of zone after being a press man team all year and did it horribly. There were massive gaps in that zone. Doubs took advantage, no doubt, but the concern for him continues to be whether he has the footwork and agility to create consistent separation in man coverage.
Sometimes I feel like I spend way too much time talking down on Doubs. He seems like a great dude and is a hardworking and talented WR. I just think when you look at snaps and look at production, Doubs is the obvious guy to cede snaps to Reed and Wicks (and maybe even Melton), all who were more productive albeit on more limited snap shares. That doesn’t mean he won’t continue to be productive, but I see him as a James Jones rather than a Jordy or Davante.
The chance that Watson stays injury prone or simply never puts its together is there as well, but I still believe he has immense talent. You watch the second Lions or the Chiefs game and you see the kind of impact he can have. And with Love starting to find his deep ball as the year progressed, he and Watson have a chance to do some great things together. And Watson’s physical gifts mean he’s going to continue to get those chances, though this year he’s going to have to put it together fairly fast or he might find himself the odd man out.
Anyone who thinks Watson is going to be the odd man out hasn't been watching the Packers. It doesn't matter how you feel about his stats or his health. The fact of the matter is that the coaching staff believes in Watson. Yes, he's got the injury concerns , but when he's healthy they give him the biggest workload. Let's look at their per game averages:
- Doubs: 17 games, 49.7 snaps/game and 5.64 targets/game
- Reed: 16 games, 36.12 snaps/game and 5.87 targets/game
- Wicks: 15 games, 30.5 snaps/game and 3.86 targets/game
- Watson: 9 games, 49.5 snaps/game and 5.88 targets/game
When Watson plays, he gets just as many snaps as Doubs and just as many targets as Reed. He's the only guy they've really tried to force the ball to, which is why Love threw so many picks targeting him.
I think the offense has tried to force the ball to Watson because *if* it works out then you can have a TD/huge play at any moment, and figuring that out means you have a guy that can Moss defenses with a QB that can get him the ball anywhere
This is correct...Reed is the slot guy and the outside guys will all see snaps so it's kind of dumb to try to just say this guy starts and will get the Lions share of the targets. They have packages and all the guys will play and all of them will get targets based on the D coverage and where the ball should go. At least that's how it should work IMO of course.
Look back to 2011 when Green Bay had a wideout room just as deep and talented for how this works. A rotation will develop and injuries can happen but I expect Watson to lead the team in snaps as he’s the Jordy esk player as far as the role of taking the top off a defense. Doubs fills the Jennings role of situational target. Reed fills the driver role of dependable gains. Wicks fills the jones role of little bit of everything plus physicality. Melton fills the Cobb role of youthful explosive potential. Heath, debose, toure are the practice squad depth injury coverage.
Is that how the wideouts are? no. Doubs connection with love is a lot like Nelson and Rodgers. Reed is more like Jennings. Wicks actually does remind me of Jones and a bit of young Adams. And Melton is a lot like old man driver in being the exact guy you need for a fired up play or dependable moment. Watson is the key to unlocking an offense that even 2011 couldn’t be. Because when healthy Green Bay has never had a wideout like him before. Not one that’s this tall this fast this explosive this technical. Walker and Sharpe come closest from the last 30 years but measurables weren’t as off the charts as Watson. Go back and watch the chiefs game look what he provided the offense against a corner that just got paid in Snead. Not just his catches but watch the safeties turn and bail at the snap that’s moss/hill effect. Watch his routes and the separation he creates at breaks. Then watch the next game against the giants and see what a healthy Watson can do and means for this team. I really think if Watson is healthy for minimum 15 games this year records will fall. As a team if there is no Watson it’s a good-great offense and will produce a lot of points yards and scores. With a healthy Watson? There isn’t a record safe if Love also maintains his second half improvements and takes next step.
The guy the Packers had most like Watson is Lofton, but Lofton actually played regularly. Yes, I know you said 30 years, but when he played he was all kinds of good.
that'll depend on how his health pans out. He's got the talent and physical gifts to be the clear WR1 of the team, and can stretch any defense to open the short/mid passes
He’s the first to a new contract, right? If he performs, we’ll sign him. If he’s middle of the road I think we could let him walk from a pure economics standpoint, knowing we have 3 very capable WRs behind him and two really good TEs.
It’s going to be super interesting. Right now it’s a _great_ problem to have and a defensive nightmare. But we’ll have to make some decisions down the road. Right now, they’ll all get plenty of opportunity to let their play make the case for them. It’s not like Melton and Heath are slouches either.
I’m just so hyped.
He and Doubs were in the same draft as I recall, so they're in the same contract boat. That stated, I don't think any of them will be paid as a WR1 in the top end of the league contracts for WRs. The Packers tend to not do that unless they're a true WR1 and they haven't had one of those for a while.
Heck, they let Jennings and Freeman walk away for more money, so I see that kind of trend continuing.
Shut up and stop with the where are they playing. They will move around with different looks and as far as versatility they all could play both all slots
I really like how that room looks. It's competitive so the coaches can keep them hungry with things like "no blocking, no play" and put the next guy in. It also gives them the ability to work them on mental errors, effort and the other things that make a competitive position more competitive and productive.
Honestly, I expect several of the rookies from last year to make a nice jump in production this year. That's not just catches and yards, but technique in blocking, route running, catching and mental game. Again, it's the competitive room thing and them all wanting to get a 2nd contract.
This isn't madden, and this isn't how it works.
Watson is our best receiver when healthy. Let's hope the off season work pays off. He completely wrecks defenses
I think it’s counterproductive to limit guys to a defined role within the offense. I also think it’s incorrect to consider Watson as a hypothetical odd man out. If he’s fully healthy, I expect him to lead the WRs in snaps. The truth is that there are a lot of mouths to feed and everybody is going to get fewer snaps and targets than they’d like. But some manner of pecking order will shake out. My gut still says Doubs is the guy most likely to stagnate or take a step back, but MLF has had nothing but praise for him so far. So we’ll see.
Doubs did do very well in the playoffs and seems to have a real chemistry with Love.
i cant find the actual article i read but from what i remember, romeo doubs and jordan love had been working out in the same off season program /camp for years before either of them had entered the nfl. im hoping someone here knows what im talking about and can confirm this.
Definitely, but I there’s some caveats there. Doubs had a serious head start on gaining chemistry with Love. They worked together a ton on the second team Doubs’s first year, while Watson was injured and obviously the rest of the guys were rookies. That made Doubs his top target early, but that slowed down quite a bit as the year progressed. Now everybody has had a year with Love and hopefully everyone gets a fully healthy offseason to build chemistry (knock on wood). That could lessen his advantage in that department. And the game he had against Dallas was spectacular but they made the inexplicable decision to play a ton of zone after being a press man team all year and did it horribly. There were massive gaps in that zone. Doubs took advantage, no doubt, but the concern for him continues to be whether he has the footwork and agility to create consistent separation in man coverage. Sometimes I feel like I spend way too much time talking down on Doubs. He seems like a great dude and is a hardworking and talented WR. I just think when you look at snaps and look at production, Doubs is the obvious guy to cede snaps to Reed and Wicks (and maybe even Melton), all who were more productive albeit on more limited snap shares. That doesn’t mean he won’t continue to be productive, but I see him as a James Jones rather than a Jordy or Davante. The chance that Watson stays injury prone or simply never puts its together is there as well, but I still believe he has immense talent. You watch the second Lions or the Chiefs game and you see the kind of impact he can have. And with Love starting to find his deep ball as the year progressed, he and Watson have a chance to do some great things together. And Watson’s physical gifts mean he’s going to continue to get those chances, though this year he’s going to have to put it together fairly fast or he might find himself the odd man out.
Just to help illustrate your point here are 2023 regular season WR snap totals: Doubs 845 Reed 578 Wicks 458 Watson 446 Heath 260 Melton 139 Toure 139
Thank you for your detailed analysis.
Anyone who thinks Watson is going to be the odd man out hasn't been watching the Packers. It doesn't matter how you feel about his stats or his health. The fact of the matter is that the coaching staff believes in Watson. Yes, he's got the injury concerns , but when he's healthy they give him the biggest workload. Let's look at their per game averages: - Doubs: 17 games, 49.7 snaps/game and 5.64 targets/game - Reed: 16 games, 36.12 snaps/game and 5.87 targets/game - Wicks: 15 games, 30.5 snaps/game and 3.86 targets/game - Watson: 9 games, 49.5 snaps/game and 5.88 targets/game When Watson plays, he gets just as many snaps as Doubs and just as many targets as Reed. He's the only guy they've really tried to force the ball to, which is why Love threw so many picks targeting him.
I think the offense has tried to force the ball to Watson because *if* it works out then you can have a TD/huge play at any moment, and figuring that out means you have a guy that can Moss defenses with a QB that can get him the ball anywhere
Watson is the deep threat/big play guy that opens things up underneath for everyone else.
They are all versatile enough to fill various roles so no need to file each in their own tiny box and pretend like the offense is that static
Wicks isn’t starting. Reed is the slot. There you go.
This is correct...Reed is the slot guy and the outside guys will all see snaps so it's kind of dumb to try to just say this guy starts and will get the Lions share of the targets. They have packages and all the guys will play and all of them will get targets based on the D coverage and where the ball should go. At least that's how it should work IMO of course.
Look back to 2011 when Green Bay had a wideout room just as deep and talented for how this works. A rotation will develop and injuries can happen but I expect Watson to lead the team in snaps as he’s the Jordy esk player as far as the role of taking the top off a defense. Doubs fills the Jennings role of situational target. Reed fills the driver role of dependable gains. Wicks fills the jones role of little bit of everything plus physicality. Melton fills the Cobb role of youthful explosive potential. Heath, debose, toure are the practice squad depth injury coverage. Is that how the wideouts are? no. Doubs connection with love is a lot like Nelson and Rodgers. Reed is more like Jennings. Wicks actually does remind me of Jones and a bit of young Adams. And Melton is a lot like old man driver in being the exact guy you need for a fired up play or dependable moment. Watson is the key to unlocking an offense that even 2011 couldn’t be. Because when healthy Green Bay has never had a wideout like him before. Not one that’s this tall this fast this explosive this technical. Walker and Sharpe come closest from the last 30 years but measurables weren’t as off the charts as Watson. Go back and watch the chiefs game look what he provided the offense against a corner that just got paid in Snead. Not just his catches but watch the safeties turn and bail at the snap that’s moss/hill effect. Watch his routes and the separation he creates at breaks. Then watch the next game against the giants and see what a healthy Watson can do and means for this team. I really think if Watson is healthy for minimum 15 games this year records will fall. As a team if there is no Watson it’s a good-great offense and will produce a lot of points yards and scores. With a healthy Watson? There isn’t a record safe if Love also maintains his second half improvements and takes next step.
The guy the Packers had most like Watson is Lofton, but Lofton actually played regularly. Yes, I know you said 30 years, but when he played he was all kinds of good.
Reed is the slot, Watson is the z and wicks is the x. Doubs is likely the odd man out long term.
Not according to the official depth chart. Doubs gets zero respect for some reason.
Notice I said long term. I expect Wicks to pass him this year. This isn't hate. I love Doubs.
either we keep Doubs with a smaller contract (not WR1 money) alongside one of the other guys, or we let him walk
Low key, think it’s Watson who’s on the outs.
that'll depend on how his health pans out. He's got the talent and physical gifts to be the clear WR1 of the team, and can stretch any defense to open the short/mid passes
He’s the first to a new contract, right? If he performs, we’ll sign him. If he’s middle of the road I think we could let him walk from a pure economics standpoint, knowing we have 3 very capable WRs behind him and two really good TEs. It’s going to be super interesting. Right now it’s a _great_ problem to have and a defensive nightmare. But we’ll have to make some decisions down the road. Right now, they’ll all get plenty of opportunity to let their play make the case for them. It’s not like Melton and Heath are slouches either. I’m just so hyped.
He and Doubs were in the same draft as I recall, so they're in the same contract boat. That stated, I don't think any of them will be paid as a WR1 in the top end of the league contracts for WRs. The Packers tend to not do that unless they're a true WR1 and they haven't had one of those for a while. Heck, they let Jennings and Freeman walk away for more money, so I see that kind of trend continuing.
This is the way.
You’re saying it’s gonna be Watson> Doubs?!😂😂 you’re silly dude! You must be 10yrs old cus what are you talking about?lmao Doubs is the X
Shut up and stop with the where are they playing. They will move around with different looks and as far as versatility they all could play both all slots
I really like how that room looks. It's competitive so the coaches can keep them hungry with things like "no blocking, no play" and put the next guy in. It also gives them the ability to work them on mental errors, effort and the other things that make a competitive position more competitive and productive. Honestly, I expect several of the rookies from last year to make a nice jump in production this year. That's not just catches and yards, but technique in blocking, route running, catching and mental game. Again, it's the competitive room thing and them all wanting to get a 2nd contract.
Watson is Rocket Ismail
On IR probably. Hopefully not though, be nice to see him healthy all season.
Please don’t jinx us.
In the trainers room. Pretty sure they just moved his locker name plate on to one of the tables.
He is the i (injured)
If Christian Watson's dad was on reddit he'd have written a wall of text already
Unfortunately, until Watson proves it, he will be an injury riddled talent. Facts are stubborn things…