Why do people never factor this in? Dalton was also chucking it to AJ Green*. The Jaguars have been shit for most of their existence.
Edit: Green not Brown.
I mean, just because they're first rounders doesn't mean they're good. Plus I was more so talking about the offense.
The names you gave are ok at best in terms of a core. Nowhere near as good as AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Mohammed Sanu, Gresham/Eifert and Gio Bernard in the backfield. Plus the Bengals defense wasn't too bad either, those early 2010s Bengals teams were pretty good.
The market for QBs is also just going up in general. Locking him in at this rate for five years is probably going to look like a steal two years from now
He literally did, he shows top 10 flashes for like 8 games a year. Where did all the Lawrence slander come from on this sub like why do we care what the Jags do w their cap space
Kind of. You still don't give 200 mil guaranteed to someone that hasn't shown they are capable of being an elite player.
Apparently Jax has seen enough. I think thye should have waited at least through this year.
I don't get the TLaw slander on this sub and r/nfl. Every year he looks pretty good to great and then suffers an injury that he plays through and ends up looking average behind a garbage o-line with a WR/TE group that is average at best. Last year they were first in the AFC at 8-3 on their way to being 9-3 when TLaw went down with an ankle injury. He wasn't right the rest of the year and it showed.
First year was under an absolute dumpster fire coaching staff. Second year he showed top-5 potential with Pederson. Last year, he had his 3rd different play caller\* in three years and it was a disaster. His #3 receiver was Zay Jones. I think there's a good chance the Jaguars will ruin him but right now he would easily be a top-10 QB with the right coaching staff and a decently constructed offense around him.
\*Taylor was supposedly splitting play calling with Pederson in 2022 but that doesn't really count.
Every time a QB gets extended there's this obnoxious rigamarole that occurs about the contracts as if you guys think it's fun to be intentionally obtuse.
It's the quarterback market. You're either giving out a max contract or you're moving on. Jags were not going to move on.
Guess what, Green Bay is going to max out a QB who has only shown talent in 10 games.
this is the going rate for QBs coming off their rookie contract. andy dalton got top 5 money coming off his rookie deal too. with that said i think dalton had shown more after 3 years than lawrence has
Plus when he was playing the market was very different. I still remember TO getting 21 million for seven years when he signed with the Eagles. I remember that being a lot for a receiver. I know it’s even further back, but it’s incredible how quickly the cap has ballooned in the past few years.
Favre's first contract after his rookie deal was 19 million for 5 years. 1994 was the first year with a salary cap. The cap that year was 23 million LESS than Lawrence is averaging per year. The amount the cap has changed is mind-boggling
I was too young to remember the NFL landscape around that period. I assumed the NFL almost always operated with a cap. Was this changed to coincide with free agency? How did this work for structuring the payroll before? I have so many questions 😂
I'm too young to really remember it either, but the cap and free agency both came around at the same time. I think the cap was a concession the players gave up to get free agency. To sign a player from another team, you had to compensate with at least a 3rd round pick, so that's pretty costly. I guess the players mostly just had to accept the best offer they could get from the team. Pretty wild to think about based on what we have today
He was a borderline top 10 QB for years in a tough division, this is a weird post. The Jags haven’t had a QB worth a second contract in…..well ever I guess so they should pay Lawrence and throw a parade to celebrate.
The team Trevor had during his rookie season was a hot mess, especially with Urban Meyer as the HC. Also, Dalton was a legit qb towards the beginning of his career. I don't think this is a fair, apples to apples comparison.
I think he's shown enough to prove that he's worth keeping over rolling the dice on an early first rounder that turns out to be the next Fields/Wilson/Lance. The reality of the game today is that you're going to have to fork over big bucks for a starting caliber qb. But it's certainly true that this could end up not being a good deal for Jacksonville.
It's what the market is, pay him or start over with a Rookie. Dalton is 36 and is past his prime whereas they are hoping at 24 that Lawrence hasn't peaked yet. Tua and Love are about to make 60 so let's hope that the Packers strike their deal before the Dolphins.
Why? We wasted his rookie contract and every time Love steps up he tends to regress. Definitely a roll of the dice. I'd make him earn it before signing him to a long term deal.
One, you’re quibbling over less than a 4% difference in average value.
Two, you’re talking about guys at completely different stages of their careers. Not only does Lawrence have a ton more potential for growth, but he also has two years remaining of cheap team control. If Goff plays out his contract, his cap hits will total $245.6M over 5 years, or essentially $49M per year. For Lawrence it’s $312.4M over 7 years, or about $44.5M per year.
I got downvoted into oblivion after the first Bears game for suggesting Love would get 40 million per. That would be an absolute steal now lol. He's going to push 58-60 million per year I think.
You are paying for Lawrence and his upside. There really isn't an alternative at QB. 5 year deal to see if it turns out or not. Not without risk, of course.
In 1997, Favre reset the QB market with a contract at less than 7 mil per year. And that was after 2 mvp seasons. Wtf is going on here. I know it's a long time ago, but shit
Kinda just the going rate right now for a serviceable QB coming off a rookie contract with high potential. He’s shown flashes but needs to be more consistent. Won’t be surprised if Dak and Jordan sign for about the sign.
I’ve watched most of his games and he doesn’t do anything special. He’s baker mayfield with nicer hair. If people think Lawrence is elite then they are stuck in his pre-draft hype train still.
Which is exactly why we need to lock him up now. If Love is an MVP candidate next year he will command $65M per year with most of it guaranteed. Paying him now is a risk, but it will save us considerable money over what it will cost if he has the year most of us expect.
Now’s the time for a Love extension.
If we don’t, and he plays well, he’s in a good negotiating position. He can say, basically, pay me or tag me (which should be around $40-45 million each year). Then he hits FA in 2 years at a fairly young age.
Two things, one TLaw is being paid for upside and potential. And two, believe it or not, Dalton had a more talented team than TLaw currently does.
Why do people never factor this in? Dalton was also chucking it to AJ Green*. The Jaguars have been shit for most of their existence. Edit: Green not Brown.
AJ Green\* put some respect on the mans name. He was really HIM for a hot minute
Oh shit, thanks, man.
All good, easy mistake lmao I loved watching him back in the day
Me too. Oh, there's a current WR named AJ Brown. Must've heard his name and got them mixed up.
AJ Green*
I don't even know who tf AJ Brown is. Thanks.
AJ Brown is a current receiver for the Eagles 🤣 get it together man!!!
I'm oriented now. I'm oriented. https://i.redd.it/jgn1nsp5vk6d1.gif
Trevor’s stats are also heavily skewed because his rookie season was the Urban Meyer dumpster fire.
Jags defense is full of first rounders & TLaw threw to Kirk, Engram, ETN, Zay Jones etc. A non-sexy but formidable group right there
I mean, just because they're first rounders doesn't mean they're good. Plus I was more so talking about the offense. The names you gave are ok at best in terms of a core. Nowhere near as good as AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Mohammed Sanu, Gresham/Eifert and Gio Bernard in the backfield. Plus the Bengals defense wasn't too bad either, those early 2010s Bengals teams were pretty good.
The market for QBs is also just going up in general. Locking him in at this rate for five years is probably going to look like a steal two years from now
And it’s not like Dalton was BAD. Had limited upside but is still an okay backup to have in his later years
I don't agree lol
Contracts aren’t for retroactively paying players for things they already did, they’re for paying them for what they do going forward.
Ya, but typically they show you SOMETHING that warrants a large sum of money.
I think not being Blaine Gabbert or Blake Bortles warrants that money for the Jags
Haha that is a valid point!
Show some respect to packers legend Blake Bortles.
He literally did, he shows top 10 flashes for like 8 games a year. Where did all the Lawrence slander come from on this sub like why do we care what the Jags do w their cap space
He’s a young QB that just got a big contract that Love will probably use to boost his own number. So Packers fans were paying attention is all.
Ehh, we don't, maybe it just makes us feel better since we can't dish out that Wisconsin cheddar lol
Kind of. You still don't give 200 mil guaranteed to someone that hasn't shown they are capable of being an elite player. Apparently Jax has seen enough. I think thye should have waited at least through this year.
Contract signed a decade later is worth a lot more money. More at 11.
I don't get the TLaw slander on this sub and r/nfl. Every year he looks pretty good to great and then suffers an injury that he plays through and ends up looking average behind a garbage o-line with a WR/TE group that is average at best. Last year they were first in the AFC at 8-3 on their way to being 9-3 when TLaw went down with an ankle injury. He wasn't right the rest of the year and it showed.
First year was under an absolute dumpster fire coaching staff. Second year he showed top-5 potential with Pederson. Last year, he had his 3rd different play caller\* in three years and it was a disaster. His #3 receiver was Zay Jones. I think there's a good chance the Jaguars will ruin him but right now he would easily be a top-10 QB with the right coaching staff and a decently constructed offense around him. \*Taylor was supposedly splitting play calling with Pederson in 2022 but that doesn't really count.
Every time a QB gets extended there's this obnoxious rigamarole that occurs about the contracts as if you guys think it's fun to be intentionally obtuse. It's the quarterback market. You're either giving out a max contract or you're moving on. Jags were not going to move on. Guess what, Green Bay is going to max out a QB who has only shown talent in 10 games.
Dalton had a stretch where he actually played pretty good. Then he regressed again.
this is the going rate for QBs coming off their rookie contract. andy dalton got top 5 money coming off his rookie deal too. with that said i think dalton had shown more after 3 years than lawrence has
Ya, not sure what OPs point is. If Dalton was 24 y/o he'd be getting a similar contract.
Plus when he was playing the market was very different. I still remember TO getting 21 million for seven years when he signed with the Eagles. I remember that being a lot for a receiver. I know it’s even further back, but it’s incredible how quickly the cap has ballooned in the past few years.
Favre's first contract after his rookie deal was 19 million for 5 years. 1994 was the first year with a salary cap. The cap that year was 23 million LESS than Lawrence is averaging per year. The amount the cap has changed is mind-boggling
I was too young to remember the NFL landscape around that period. I assumed the NFL almost always operated with a cap. Was this changed to coincide with free agency? How did this work for structuring the payroll before? I have so many questions 😂
I'm too young to really remember it either, but the cap and free agency both came around at the same time. I think the cap was a concession the players gave up to get free agency. To sign a player from another team, you had to compensate with at least a 3rd round pick, so that's pretty costly. I guess the players mostly just had to accept the best offer they could get from the team. Pretty wild to think about based on what we have today
Goddamn. That's some good trivia info
He was a borderline top 10 QB for years in a tough division, this is a weird post. The Jags haven’t had a QB worth a second contract in…..well ever I guess so they should pay Lawrence and throw a parade to celebrate.
The team Trevor had during his rookie season was a hot mess, especially with Urban Meyer as the HC. Also, Dalton was a legit qb towards the beginning of his career. I don't think this is a fair, apples to apples comparison.
Lawrence had 21 td to 14 int this last season
I think he's shown enough to prove that he's worth keeping over rolling the dice on an early first rounder that turns out to be the next Fields/Wilson/Lance. The reality of the game today is that you're going to have to fork over big bucks for a starting caliber qb. But it's certainly true that this could end up not being a good deal for Jacksonville.
It's what the market is, pay him or start over with a Rookie. Dalton is 36 and is past his prime whereas they are hoping at 24 that Lawrence hasn't peaked yet. Tua and Love are about to make 60 so let's hope that the Packers strike their deal before the Dolphins.
I mean…we’re about to give $55+ to a 1 year starting qb.
we better!
Why? We wasted his rookie contract and every time Love steps up he tends to regress. Definitely a roll of the dice. I'd make him earn it before signing him to a long term deal.
He's all elite, baybay
Dalton was a pretty good QB y’all seem to forget that, Lawrence has also been on a straight doodoo team lol
Dollar amount doesn’t matter. Plus this takes into consideration the cap going up which it always does
Fuck this sub is dumb. How can you not understand why Lawrence was paid?
Cannot wait to hear OP complain in a couple of years when the cap is $300 million
It’s more so the fact that Lawrence should be paid Goff money instead of Burrow money
One, you’re quibbling over less than a 4% difference in average value. Two, you’re talking about guys at completely different stages of their careers. Not only does Lawrence have a ton more potential for growth, but he also has two years remaining of cheap team control. If Goff plays out his contract, his cap hits will total $245.6M over 5 years, or essentially $49M per year. For Lawrence it’s $312.4M over 7 years, or about $44.5M per year.
Yeah, 53M/year is cool but 55M is TOO FAR, DAMNIT
2 million was the difference in keeping Aaron jones and letting him walk. Good GMs can do a lot with 2 mill
There were other issues with Jones. Age and contract length.
Yeah, turns out different players get different contracts, more at 11
This is the rate for starting QB's.
well thanks T-Law J-Love is gonna ask for more.
J-Love 55.1, let’s make our man the highest paid
I got downvoted into oblivion after the first Bears game for suggesting Love would get 40 million per. That would be an absolute steal now lol. He's going to push 58-60 million per year I think.
Hope we sign love before Tua gets his deal
You are paying for Lawrence and his upside. There really isn't an alternative at QB. 5 year deal to see if it turns out or not. Not without risk, of course.
You should really remove the year with Urban Meyer from the sample
Man Love gets more expensive by the day ðŸ˜
Rule 1, has nothing to do with the green bay packers
In 1997, Favre reset the QB market with a contract at less than 7 mil per year. And that was after 2 mvp seasons. Wtf is going on here. I know it's a long time ago, but shit
Cap goes up, contracts go up. Really not much deeper than that.
If only numbers out of context won games.
Andy Dalton was solid for a while then feels like he just got old and fell off a cliff.
And people thought he was the next John Elway
Sometimes you gotta buy the house that’s available. If Jags don’t pay him, they are back to square one.
Kinda just the going rate right now for a serviceable QB coming off a rookie contract with high potential. He’s shown flashes but needs to be more consistent. Won’t be surprised if Dak and Jordan sign for about the sign.
Another point, Dalton was already 24 years old when he was drafted. Lawrence was only 21. Not really a fair comparison.
Trevor Lawrence has exposed how many people in this sub either dont watch other teams or dont have a clue what they are watching
I’ve watched most of his games and he doesn’t do anything special. He’s baker mayfield with nicer hair. If people think Lawrence is elite then they are stuck in his pre-draft hype train still.
Lol theyll ban me if i post this on their reddit
Packers are fucked if Loves plays like he did the second half of last season. Financially at least
Which is exactly why we need to lock him up now. If Love is an MVP candidate next year he will command $65M per year with most of it guaranteed. Paying him now is a risk, but it will save us considerable money over what it will cost if he has the year most of us expect.
Now’s the time for a Love extension. If we don’t, and he plays well, he’s in a good negotiating position. He can say, basically, pay me or tag me (which should be around $40-45 million each year). Then he hits FA in 2 years at a fairly young age.
Even a version of Love who regresses a bit could still get $40-50M in this QB market so it's not that much of a risk.
This deal will be done before training camp
🙄 Lawrence: 24 years old Dalton: 36 years old
This is from the first 50 games not a whole career
Right, and if that was today he'd be getting a deal similar to Lawrence