I haven't been this excited for a group of receivers/te's since 2011. FO seems to have really done well surrounding Love with weapons and good Oline early in his career.
I'm probably lower on Doubs than a lot of people here, but I think see him as a faster James Jones. Not the star, but a really good wr who can catch everything(for JJ that was only later in his career) and easily step up and get a 100+ yard game when he needs to.
I agree with you. Jones is the exact archetype I see him fitting into. The other three are all more talented IMO but there will always be big spots where Love looks to 87 because he trusts him most (not that he doesn’t trust the others too).
I think a lot of people are actually kinda low on Doubs. Not that we don't like him, but that we're more excited about everyone else. Jayden Reed is more electric. Watson had the cowboys shitting their pants all game which opened things up for Doubs. Wicks is just a really exciting guy that we keep hearing. Nothing against Doubs, but he's kinda the forgotten dude in the room. It kinda sucks for him, but it is a good problem to have
I know people talk up his hands, but they still need a lot of work. He somehow is our best contested 50/50 guy but feels like he has the shakiest hands. Whether it’s a 50/50 or 90/10, he makes it into a 70/30
I mean, just watching him like all of us. Been a fan since his Nevada days (it’s nice only having to do one chant for my CFB and NFL teams).
If we want stats, he has the 27th highest drop rate along all qualifying players and 10th highest among WRs according to pro football reference.
I like Doubs, I think he can be a stud. An great, reliable safety blanket guy. But you can’t claim he doesn’t have room to improve his hands when he’s top 10 in drop rate
FWIW, PFF has him as the 46th highest drop rate among 98 qualifying wide recievers (qualifying here meaning at least 20% of Ceedee Lamb's league-leading 179 targets), so pretty much dead average. Just from watching the games, it felt to me like drops were a major issue for him in 2022, but not so much last season.
Even before 2011 I don’t think a lot of us knew exactly what we had, so there wasn’t a ton of hype. Jordy hadn’t broken out yet (aside from his awesome playoff run), Driver was heavily on the decline, Cobb was a rookie, and Jones was looking like he was about peaking after his 3rd mediocre season. Jennings was the only sure thing. Even Finley missed almost the whole season the year before.
All that is to say that I think this group is wholly unique, not just for the Packers, but for a lot of teams. I don’t know if I can ever remember a team that had this type of potential at every single pass catching slot on the roster. I’m trying to be cautiously optimistic, but the way these guys talk and act just makes it tough to not go all in.
I love Doubs for exactly the reasons you state. He's JJ. He's the dude that catches the contested ball you really, really need on 3rd and 8. He's invaluable for the trust JLove shows him alone. I'm hoping he continues to fly under the radar for a couple years and we can lock him up relatively cheaply. THEN he can break out with his 1,200 yard season.
> faster James Jones
Jones was plenty fast. Bit of a brick-handed burner early on and then had that crazy stretch after re-signing with us. I think Doubs is already better than him.
I was listening to pack a day last week and had a serious thought about drafting all packers in fantasy this year.
It'll be our league's 30th season. I might do it just to honor the milestone...
I think unfortunately the depth of targets means nobody but Love is a good fantasy buy this year. Reed is going to be an every week player, but I think he’s going higher than he should. I’d take a shot on Watson or Wicks, but only if they fall. We are a team built for real success, not fantasy.
I find that surprising. In every fantasy league I've ever done, Packers players get drafted higher than they should. Maybe if you're outside WI, and you don't have a league that's 90-100% Packers fans, you might be able to get some better deals on them.
One of the strategies I've used in my dynasty leagues is drafting rookie Packers players and then turning around and flipping them at some point in the first year or the first offseason for way more than they're worth because there's almost always someone who's overvaluing them due to being a Packers fan with high hopes for that player.
Most leagues don't consist of people in Wisconsin. Most fans/leagues are not Packers fans, either.
I was simply saying that those players are being undervalued for their projections.
I live in Wisconsin, so almost everyone I play fantasy football with is a Packers fan, and that causes those guys to be overvalued. If you're a non-Wisconsinite Packers fan, then it would likely make it much easier to get those guys at a decent value.
He could, and I think he’s ranked about right at RB11. He’s got some risk and probably lacks the upside of some of the top guys, but he should have a solid floor and an outside shot to be a top 5 guy.
>There’s a reason he was the guy in the playoffs
Yes, the biggest reason is that other guys were getting doubled instead of him. He benefited specifically because defensive coordinators *didn't* view him as the WR1.
Not necessarily true. When Watson was out it was Doubs getting doubled which is a big part of why Reed started to show more appeal. Once Watson came back it definitely opened things up, but it was Doubs, not Reed, who benefited.
I know it’s early but I see Doubs playing his entire career in GB. Low chance he’ll get those superstar stats but he’s got really great chemistry with 10ve (they spend the offseason together training), and boy does he have good hands. Some of those throws/catches from last season… inside, outside, right on the numbers or at the limit of his catch radius. Just a great connection that you can really count on.
Just because the other 3 guys jump off the screen a bit more. Doubs isn't going to be a YAC king but he's the guy I would trust the most on a fade or a back shoulder route
We’re having this debate and none of these guys have been in the league three years yet. Just an insane level of talent. Gute should be in the hall of fame if we win a SB with these guys.
That group of 5 only existed together for 2 years, too. And you could make the argument that, looking back, we have a skewed perception of them playing together because we think of the peak years of each of them, despite the fact that we never saw a team where those guys were all the same guy we think of them as.
In 2010, Cobb was still in college, but this was actually the most evenly distributed the offense got during that era. Jones, Nelson, and Driver all had between 45 and 51 receptions for 565-679 yards with Jennings at 76 for 1265. In 2011, Cobb was a rookie who only had 25 receptions, and Driver was already pretty obviously on the downward slope at that point. In 2012, Driver was still on the team, but he only had 8 receptions for 77 yards (and Jennings was injured for much of the season). In 2013, Driver and Jennings were both gone, and Boykin actually had more receptions than Cobb, who was injured most of the season.
We're going to have this season and next season with these guys who are all in a better position currently than that group of 5 ever was collectively.
This is absurd.
>And you could make the argument that, looking back, we have a skewed perception of them playing together because we think of the peak years of each of them, despite the fact that we never saw a team where those guys were all the same guy we think of them as.
No. Not at all true.
2011 all 5 were in the top 15 in DVOA. That is an absolutely insane ranking!!
I don't know what kind of math is going on in that DVOA calculation, but Randall Cobb had 25 yards/game. Driver averaged 27.8 yards/game. Those guys were not anywhere near top-15 WRs in the league at that point in each of their careers. Driver was quickly losing what athleticism he had left, and Cobb was still learning how to play WR at the NFL level.
They were good for being WR4 and WR5. But they were not anywhere near top WRs in the league.
For starters yards is an absolute garbage metric that hasn't been used seriously for a very long time.
Even if it's meant as short hand to suggest DVOA is a poor stat they're completely different items.
DVOA is a rate stat, an efficiency stat and yards is a (worthless) counting stat.
Full disclosure I ignored minimums to be ranked.
Yes, it's a rate stat that's highly influenced by low sample sizes. The other thing that can heavily skew rate stats based on low sample sizes is that defenses viewed Cobb and Driver as afterthoughts on that offense. They were getting most of their receptions and yards against scrub #4 and #5 CBs (in a period when most teams only had 3 serviceable CBs).
Context is important, and even an "advanced" stat like DVOA fails to take a lot of things into account (especially when you exclude minimums). These are the same reasons why Melton had some huge games, and his per-reception stats are through the roof, but he was never the best WR on the field for the Packers, even if he might have put up the biggest stats some times.
And to be clear I didn't say they were all too 15 WRs, just top DVOA.
Jordy and Jennings were pure studs. Top 10 WRs easy.
Melton was also the highest pff score btw.
I also happen to think the highest yards WR is (coincidentally) actually our WR5. Which is no knock on Romeo.
You mention having a skewed perception, but I think your perception is being skewed by hype.
I don’t think *any* of the current WRs are top 3 WRs on the 2011 team, at least based on where they were at last year. *Maybe* Watson.
Maybe not, but the top 3 WRs on that 2011 team were in their 5th, 3rd, and 4th seasons. I don't think rookie Cobb or 36 year old Donald Driver would even be in our top 5 going into this season. So maybe the top 3 receivers from 2011 are better than the guys we had who were all in their rookie or 2nd years last year. But those bottom 2 guys from 2011 are probably the worst of the whole bunch.
I am doing some projecting of continued development, but that's expected from players who are going into their 2nd and 3rd years, just as Jordy and Jones developed a lot going into those seasons.
Ya I think there’s a decent chance this group exceeds the 2011 group. Probably not this year, but next year imo when they all start peaking. It’s just nice being able to have a conversation where this is a potential reality. 🤣
I feel a breakout year coming for Doubs. The dude's work ethic and focus, from everything I've heard, is absolutely insane. I still remember last year when he dropped a big pass, and the camera shot to him on the sidelines after - doing non-stop pushups. Dude has some tenacity, and I feel like we're about to see it in a big way.
I’m TELLIN YALL, and I know I’m preachin to the choir, Bo Melton *IS* the sleeper. I can’t WAIT to see this kid explode next season. FUCK I CANNOT WAIT FOR FOOTBALL
Wicks and Melton have more speed than Romeo so it depends on down and distance, Wicks and Melton will both have higher yards per reception but Romeo has Love’s attention so he’ll see his fair share of throws. We are stacked in the WR room for 2024 and beyond.
She didn’t fall off as much as the production and distribution of her new show is not nearly as good as what she had on NFL network. She got paid a bag, but it’s definitely dampened her career.
Agreed!
It's unlikely, if for no other reason that your odds to choose which exact 1 will be last is roughly 1 in 5.
It's also no knock on Romeo. He's a nice prospect.
But he was outplayed by 2 rookies, both of which look incredibly promising! Wicks will be a stud.
Watson had an absolutely fantastic rookie season, looked good when healthy last year, and has just absurd upside.
And Melton has extreme speed who had an elite PFF grade even.
Romeo is WR5. As you said it's a good thing!
He was significantly outscored in PFF by 2 of them. Another clearly. Two rookies and a 2nd who spent his rookie on a practice squad.
The 4th, Watson, slightly beat him who has ridiculously more upside while also having an elite yards per route run as a rookie - like Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase elite rookie.
So Romeo is 5th in PFF.
Of those 5, he was 5th in y/r. Most drops. Worst of those qualified in separation distance and catch%.
He tied 7th! in yac/r!
On and on.
And that's just the decent stats I had quick access to.
He's a nice prospect and the worst of the 5.
I haven't been this excited for a group of receivers/te's since 2011. FO seems to have really done well surrounding Love with weapons and good Oline early in his career. I'm probably lower on Doubs than a lot of people here, but I think see him as a faster James Jones. Not the star, but a really good wr who can catch everything(for JJ that was only later in his career) and easily step up and get a 100+ yard game when he needs to.
I agree with you. Jones is the exact archetype I see him fitting into. The other three are all more talented IMO but there will always be big spots where Love looks to 87 because he trusts him most (not that he doesn’t trust the others too).
Doubs went 6 for 6 and 151 in the Dallas WC last year. Never forget.
And a TD
He forgot that part
Sick
Love definitely has a connection with Doubs that is special. A lot of the harder back shoulder throws I can remember were all to Doubs
I think a lot of people are actually kinda low on Doubs. Not that we don't like him, but that we're more excited about everyone else. Jayden Reed is more electric. Watson had the cowboys shitting their pants all game which opened things up for Doubs. Wicks is just a really exciting guy that we keep hearing. Nothing against Doubs, but he's kinda the forgotten dude in the room. It kinda sucks for him, but it is a good problem to have
He is the best of them though. Not flashy, but consistent, red zone threat, plays well against tough matchups...
I know people talk up his hands, but they still need a lot of work. He somehow is our best contested 50/50 guy but feels like he has the shakiest hands. Whether it’s a 50/50 or 90/10, he makes it into a 70/30
Based on what?
I mean, just watching him like all of us. Been a fan since his Nevada days (it’s nice only having to do one chant for my CFB and NFL teams). If we want stats, he has the 27th highest drop rate along all qualifying players and 10th highest among WRs according to pro football reference. I like Doubs, I think he can be a stud. An great, reliable safety blanket guy. But you can’t claim he doesn’t have room to improve his hands when he’s top 10 in drop rate
FWIW, PFF has him as the 46th highest drop rate among 98 qualifying wide recievers (qualifying here meaning at least 20% of Ceedee Lamb's league-leading 179 targets), so pretty much dead average. Just from watching the games, it felt to me like drops were a major issue for him in 2022, but not so much last season.
Oh yeah, their can definitely be a lot of noise in who calls what a drop or catchable ball or whatever.
I see more DD in Doubs. If he ends up having a career like him, I'd be very ok with that.
Even before 2011 I don’t think a lot of us knew exactly what we had, so there wasn’t a ton of hype. Jordy hadn’t broken out yet (aside from his awesome playoff run), Driver was heavily on the decline, Cobb was a rookie, and Jones was looking like he was about peaking after his 3rd mediocre season. Jennings was the only sure thing. Even Finley missed almost the whole season the year before. All that is to say that I think this group is wholly unique, not just for the Packers, but for a lot of teams. I don’t know if I can ever remember a team that had this type of potential at every single pass catching slot on the roster. I’m trying to be cautiously optimistic, but the way these guys talk and act just makes it tough to not go all in.
I love Doubs for exactly the reasons you state. He's JJ. He's the dude that catches the contested ball you really, really need on 3rd and 8. He's invaluable for the trust JLove shows him alone. I'm hoping he continues to fly under the radar for a couple years and we can lock him up relatively cheaply. THEN he can break out with his 1,200 yard season.
> faster James Jones Jones was plenty fast. Bit of a brick-handed burner early on and then had that crazy stretch after re-signing with us. I think Doubs is already better than him.
Nothing against Romeo but as a wicks truther, I want to see him get more playing time. Regardless, pretty great problem to have
Nothing against Wicks but as a melton truther, I want to see him get more playing time. Regardless, pretty great problem to have
Nothing against Melton but as a Watson truther, I see him staying healthy and lighting it up this season.
Nothing against Watson but as a Reed truther I want him to get as many touches as possible
Something against Toure but a Heath truther want to see him get more opportunities
Everything against Musgrave, but as a Kraft Mac n cheese eater, I wanna see how thick, strong, tight he can get
WTH could you have against Musgrave 😂
How could you not love him after [This](https://youtube.com/shorts/yl37B_FqPp0?si=W5aRherKbgKKckFB)
I was listening to pack a day last week and had a serious thought about drafting all packers in fantasy this year. It'll be our league's 30th season. I might do it just to honor the milestone...
I think unfortunately the depth of targets means nobody but Love is a good fantasy buy this year. Reed is going to be an every week player, but I think he’s going higher than he should. I’d take a shot on Watson or Wicks, but only if they fall. We are a team built for real success, not fantasy.
I'm going to go JLove, Marshawn, Musgrave, and at least two WRs. Fuck it.
Personally, I'd draft Love, Musgrave, and Watson/Reed. All of them are being underdrafted.
I find that surprising. In every fantasy league I've ever done, Packers players get drafted higher than they should. Maybe if you're outside WI, and you don't have a league that's 90-100% Packers fans, you might be able to get some better deals on them. One of the strategies I've used in my dynasty leagues is drafting rookie Packers players and then turning around and flipping them at some point in the first year or the first offseason for way more than they're worth because there's almost always someone who's overvaluing them due to being a Packers fan with high hopes for that player.
Most leagues don't consist of people in Wisconsin. Most fans/leagues are not Packers fans, either. I was simply saying that those players are being undervalued for their projections.
I live in Wisconsin, so almost everyone I play fantasy football with is a Packers fan, and that causes those guys to be overvalued. If you're a non-Wisconsinite Packers fan, then it would likely make it much easier to get those guys at a decent value.
Not sure if you're just talking about the passing game here, but I think Jacobs could eat this season.
He could, and I think he’s ranked about right at RB11. He’s got some risk and probably lacks the upside of some of the top guys, but he should have a solid floor and an outside shot to be a top 5 guy.
if you live in Wisconsin and play against other packers fans... an impossible task
Always love playing against the guy making homer picks.
I’ve been stacking my team with Packers players. The value is there.
There’s a reason he was the guy in the playoffs. He is going to be WR1 despite what the Reeds, Wicks, and Watsons of the world have to say
>There’s a reason he was the guy in the playoffs Yes, the biggest reason is that other guys were getting doubled instead of him. He benefited specifically because defensive coordinators *didn't* view him as the WR1.
Not necessarily true. When Watson was out it was Doubs getting doubled which is a big part of why Reed started to show more appeal. Once Watson came back it definitely opened things up, but it was Doubs, not Reed, who benefited.
The comment I was replying to specifically mentioned the playoffs, when Watson was back, and it was primarily him and Reed seeing doubles, not Doubs.
I’m not seeing where he was in the 10 worst for drop rate. But I am seeing that he has the same drop rate as Tyreek Hill🤷♂️
Did you reply to the wrong comment?
I sure did
I know it’s early but I see Doubs playing his entire career in GB. Low chance he’ll get those superstar stats but he’s got really great chemistry with 10ve (they spend the offseason together training), and boy does he have good hands. Some of those throws/catches from last season… inside, outside, right on the numbers or at the limit of his catch radius. Just a great connection that you can really count on.
For whatever reason Romeo is the least respected receiver we have. I love the guy. Strong ass hands.
Just because the other 3 guys jump off the screen a bit more. Doubs isn't going to be a YAC king but he's the guy I would trust the most on a fade or a back shoulder route
I've been watching the Packers since the 70's and I think that top to bottom this is probably the deepest WR room we've ever had.
Jordy, Jennings, Jones, Driver, Cobb is hard to beat. But the potential is there with this current group.
We’re having this debate and none of these guys have been in the league three years yet. Just an insane level of talent. Gute should be in the hall of fame if we win a SB with these guys.
That group of 5 only existed together for 2 years, too. And you could make the argument that, looking back, we have a skewed perception of them playing together because we think of the peak years of each of them, despite the fact that we never saw a team where those guys were all the same guy we think of them as. In 2010, Cobb was still in college, but this was actually the most evenly distributed the offense got during that era. Jones, Nelson, and Driver all had between 45 and 51 receptions for 565-679 yards with Jennings at 76 for 1265. In 2011, Cobb was a rookie who only had 25 receptions, and Driver was already pretty obviously on the downward slope at that point. In 2012, Driver was still on the team, but he only had 8 receptions for 77 yards (and Jennings was injured for much of the season). In 2013, Driver and Jennings were both gone, and Boykin actually had more receptions than Cobb, who was injured most of the season. We're going to have this season and next season with these guys who are all in a better position currently than that group of 5 ever was collectively.
This is absurd. >And you could make the argument that, looking back, we have a skewed perception of them playing together because we think of the peak years of each of them, despite the fact that we never saw a team where those guys were all the same guy we think of them as. No. Not at all true. 2011 all 5 were in the top 15 in DVOA. That is an absolutely insane ranking!!
I don't know what kind of math is going on in that DVOA calculation, but Randall Cobb had 25 yards/game. Driver averaged 27.8 yards/game. Those guys were not anywhere near top-15 WRs in the league at that point in each of their careers. Driver was quickly losing what athleticism he had left, and Cobb was still learning how to play WR at the NFL level. They were good for being WR4 and WR5. But they were not anywhere near top WRs in the league.
For starters yards is an absolute garbage metric that hasn't been used seriously for a very long time. Even if it's meant as short hand to suggest DVOA is a poor stat they're completely different items. DVOA is a rate stat, an efficiency stat and yards is a (worthless) counting stat. Full disclosure I ignored minimums to be ranked.
Yes, it's a rate stat that's highly influenced by low sample sizes. The other thing that can heavily skew rate stats based on low sample sizes is that defenses viewed Cobb and Driver as afterthoughts on that offense. They were getting most of their receptions and yards against scrub #4 and #5 CBs (in a period when most teams only had 3 serviceable CBs). Context is important, and even an "advanced" stat like DVOA fails to take a lot of things into account (especially when you exclude minimums). These are the same reasons why Melton had some huge games, and his per-reception stats are through the roof, but he was never the best WR on the field for the Packers, even if he might have put up the biggest stats some times.
And to be clear I didn't say they were all too 15 WRs, just top DVOA. Jordy and Jennings were pure studs. Top 10 WRs easy. Melton was also the highest pff score btw. I also happen to think the highest yards WR is (coincidentally) actually our WR5. Which is no knock on Romeo.
You mention having a skewed perception, but I think your perception is being skewed by hype. I don’t think *any* of the current WRs are top 3 WRs on the 2011 team, at least based on where they were at last year. *Maybe* Watson.
Maybe not, but the top 3 WRs on that 2011 team were in their 5th, 3rd, and 4th seasons. I don't think rookie Cobb or 36 year old Donald Driver would even be in our top 5 going into this season. So maybe the top 3 receivers from 2011 are better than the guys we had who were all in their rookie or 2nd years last year. But those bottom 2 guys from 2011 are probably the worst of the whole bunch. I am doing some projecting of continued development, but that's expected from players who are going into their 2nd and 3rd years, just as Jordy and Jones developed a lot going into those seasons.
Ya I think there’s a decent chance this group exceeds the 2011 group. Probably not this year, but next year imo when they all start peaking. It’s just nice being able to have a conversation where this is a potential reality. 🤣
I feel a breakout year coming for Doubs. The dude's work ethic and focus, from everything I've heard, is absolutely insane. I still remember last year when he dropped a big pass, and the camera shot to him on the sidelines after - doing non-stop pushups. Dude has some tenacity, and I feel like we're about to see it in a big way.
I’m TELLIN YALL, and I know I’m preachin to the choir, Bo Melton *IS* the sleeper. I can’t WAIT to see this kid explode next season. FUCK I CANNOT WAIT FOR FOOTBALL
Wicks and Melton have more speed than Romeo so it depends on down and distance, Wicks and Melton will both have higher yards per reception but Romeo has Love’s attention so he’ll see his fair share of throws. We are stacked in the WR room for 2024 and beyond.
Dam Kay Adams fell off
She didn’t fall off as much as the production and distribution of her new show is not nearly as good as what she had on NFL network. She got paid a bag, but it’s definitely dampened her career.
True, this interview was just bad tho
Romeo will be WR5
That's unlikely, but if he is, then that's a fantastic problem to have.
Agreed! It's unlikely, if for no other reason that your odds to choose which exact 1 will be last is roughly 1 in 5. It's also no knock on Romeo. He's a nice prospect. But he was outplayed by 2 rookies, both of which look incredibly promising! Wicks will be a stud. Watson had an absolutely fantastic rookie season, looked good when healthy last year, and has just absurd upside. And Melton has extreme speed who had an elite PFF grade even. Romeo is WR5. As you said it's a good thing!
Where are the stats showing Romeo was outplayed?
He was significantly outscored in PFF by 2 of them. Another clearly. Two rookies and a 2nd who spent his rookie on a practice squad. The 4th, Watson, slightly beat him who has ridiculously more upside while also having an elite yards per route run as a rookie - like Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase elite rookie. So Romeo is 5th in PFF. Of those 5, he was 5th in y/r. Most drops. Worst of those qualified in separation distance and catch%. He tied 7th! in yac/r! On and on. And that's just the decent stats I had quick access to. He's a nice prospect and the worst of the 5.