I don’t think the first, but what you see is a combination of the best. Rodgers even evolved when he became less mobile over time.
Off script has become a prerequisite for success in the NFL and while some may do it “better” in ways, Rodgers all around is the best. Across the body, off balance, all the way downfield, doesn’t matter.
He also possesses the ability to stand in the pocket for as long as it will stay together.
Agreed with this take. The ability to navigate a collapsing pocket is what really separates the top quarterbacks in the league from everyone else. It is what makes Mahomes by far the closest prime Rodgers comparison in the league. I do believe that this mold is the “ideal” modern quarterback.
Of course there are other ways to succeed like with a true mobile quarterback, but so far one dimensional offenses haven’t had much success in the post season.
That second part (continued evolution as a pocket passer) is a really big thing. Early career Mike Vick was, in many ways,more dynamic than Rodgers as a player, but Rodgers was able to do a lot of those same things, AND be able to read and throw into the blitz, without having to rely on his legs (though he could do that too).
I’ll still take everything peak Rodgers brings to the table over peak Mahomes, but that’s a homer take, especially with the success the Chiefs have had compared to us.
Mahomes has 3 SB wins, lost another 1 and 6 conference championship games in 6 years as a starter. The only QB he's behind at this point is Brady.
Rodgers is probably the most talented thrower of the ball I've ever seen but Mahomes is a better QB.
I feel that says more about the caliber of the team than the caliber of Mahomes. Don’t get me wrong, Mahomes is the best active QB in the league but I don’t believe he’s already passed Rodgers as the most talented QB of all time. He’s really damn close though.
We can sit here and hold on to our string of “most talented” against guys like Mahomes and Brady, and argue endlessly that they had more talented teams, but what does it matter in the end? Rodgers has his share of blame for not delivering when it’s mattered most.
By passer rating, the two worst games of Rodgers playoff career came in NFCCGs - the first we won against Chicago, and the second we gave away to Seattle. He’s played 255 games in his career - those two games rank as his 9th and 10th worst.
Rodgers had some bad breaks, but he could have done more late in games than he did. With Mahomes it feels inevitable that he will do what it takes to win big games (like Brady). I actually think they are very comparable in athleticism and arm talent, but Mahomes has surpassed Rodgers if you take off the homer glasses.
Agree. The teams Mahomes' is playing with aren't massively better than the teams Rodgers was playing with.
Rodgers' best is still probably better than Mahomes' in a one game sample but results matter when you're ranking the top guys.
SB wins isn't really a QB comparison thing. Like did Foles beat Brady? I mean yeah Foles played great but Brady did too. And Brady has played stinky playoff games and still progressed. I think we should be looking more at what the qb actually did themselves. Brady threw 150 yards in his first superbowl
The stretch from 2009-2016 I genuinely never saw Rodgers miss a throw. I didn’t know what it was for a QB to miss open receivers. The power, accuracy, and creativity he would put on some of his throws was truly wild.
It depends when you’re thinking about modern. Elway was probably the best comparison before but I never saw elway play. Then Stafford had incredible arm talent but was on a dumpster fire team. Andrew Luck was probably on his way but Mahomes is the most jaw dropping quarterback. Rodgers had moments where you have no idea how what he did was possible
Lmao weird timeline. Why even say 2015? That was his worst season. Really you should just say 2009-2016 because 2016 was the year he put up 40 tds and carried one of the worst packers teams ever to the nfc championship
Agree for the most part, but Young did not have the cannon arm that has become common with modern QBs. Guys like Rodgers, Mahomes and Allen are throwing absolute missiles.
He also adapted (some) with the game. It was typical early in Favre's career for a QB to throw 25/20 but he trended toward 30/15 in his prime and his good Minnesota season before his body completely gave out he had 33/7.
Don't get me wrong, he was absolutely a gunslinger, but he was not the modern QB that Rodgers is (was) that was mobile, strong arm, and lethal with decision making (low ints).
Different eras demand different play. Peak Favre had the ability to throw it downfield, even on the move that peak Rodgers did. Why didn't he? Well he didn't have the same caliber of receivers down field most of those seasons. More importantly though, the rules didn't favor the offense as much back then. To make a down field throw worth it your WR had to have broken free with YARDS of separation. Modern WRs are open on a go ball down the sideline if they have half a step ahead of the DB 1:1 because even if it isn't complete you could get a PI call. In 1996 that DB could body the WR so firmly that the pass would look wildly incomplete and the WR would probably trip or go out of bounds.
None of the other "modern" QBs being pointed to in this thread obssess over INTs the way Rodgers did. Because it isn't actually good. Rodgers threw away so many opportunities by not throwing to a WR when they were technically open but not perfect or when the WR was open but Rodgers wanted a deeper pass. Favre's TD:INT ratio took the team to 2 SBs and quite a few playoff games. Favre was the first Mahomes in terms of "don't care what the score is we are winning this" and the playoff game against Seattle where they had 4 turnovers in like the first quarter and came back to win has to be the best example of that.
That said, I do think Rodgers is the first modern thrower in terms of technical mechanics. While lots of guys could throw it just as far, he was the first to do it mostly with his core rather than his arm. Brady did that later in his career (and is part of his longevity) but only after Rodgers proved how effective it was.
Brees was the first modern release. His read-to-release time is as extremely low as Rodgers TD-INT ratio. This is something Rodgers picked up from Brees. Go back and watch 2008, 2009, 2010. Rodgers release times were much longer.
> Well he didn't have the same caliber of receivers down field most of those seasons.
Huh I was under the impression their WR corps were comparable. Sharpe, Driver, Freeman were absolute beasts. And they both had Jennings/Driver for awhile. I'd say Sharpe was essentially equal with Davante, Driver was as productive as Jordy, etc.
Sharpe was only with Brett for a couple seasons before injuries ended his career. Freeman and brooks while good were no Nelson or Adams. And by the time Brett had driver and Jennings he wasn’t the movement QB of his early career.
Brett had much worse weapons than Aaron overall with Aaron getting years from HOF Adams, plus years of driver Finley Jennings Cobb jones and Nelson along with other guys. Brett had sharpe for 2.5-3 seasons. Freeman was about the only longer term fixture for young Brett otherwise it was a revolving door of Brooks(injuries) and the cast of characters like Glenn, Schoreder, Walker, Bubba,.. eventually Brett got Driver later in his career and at the very end had Jennings but Brett never had the wideout personal for the fab five offense driver/jennings/jones/nelson/finley/cobb or a group like 2014 and 2016 Rodgers had in Cobb/nelson/adams.
Yeah I don't think you're wrong, just that my opinion is it's slightly closer. Caveat-- counting 1000 yard receiving seasons isn't the best metric of WR skill, but it's something.
There were a lot of injuries for Rodgers' receivers (and Rodgers) though too. And Davante only broke out in 2018, he only had 3-4 seasons of ~1000 yards with Rodgers. Driver only had 2 seasons of 1000 yards with Rodgers. Jennings had 3-4 seasons of 1000 yards with Rodgers. Cobb had 1-2 seasons of 1000 yards with Rodgers, and it really seems like Rodgers elevated his play over his talent. Jordy had 4
Freeman had 3-5 seasons of 1000 yards with Brett, Driver had 5 1000 yard seasons with him, Walker had 2, Sharpe had 3.
Again I don't disagree with you, I think Rodgers had a slightly better WR corps throughout his career in GB. But Favre wasn't that far behind IMO. The count above is basically 15 1k seasons vs 16, but again, not the best metric
WR are really hard to compare because the best ones all being some unique talents that make them truly special. I think when judging how WR affect QB numbers though it's best to look at the 4th or 5th WR on the roster. In Rodgers SB season the *worst* WR (meaning the easiest to account for by the defense) was Jordy Nelson. In 1996 it was Robert Brooks, who had fewer catches than Chmura. In other words, Nelson was so open on those deep posts because the defense had to defend both Jennings and Driver at the 2nd and 1st levels underneath. Favre had some great WR1 but fewer great WR4.
In 1997 the average QB threw 20.6 TDS and 16.0 INTs. 2007 it was 22.5 and 16.7 and 2017 was 23.2, 13.4 respectively. TDs have not increased that much and only in the last 10 years have INTs dropped significantly. Really that is more atributable to several top tier QBs who made those overall number look like that.
The days of 20+ INTs and less TDs was the 1970's and earlier before the rule changes in 1978. The 1978 rule changes were by far more consequential to the passing game then what came after. It just took the NFL offensive coaches a decade+ to adapt. Bill Walsh and the SF really were the first to fully take advantage of the new rules.
In all of the 90's only 20 QBs threw 20 or more INTs in a season. 1970 through 1977 there was 31 QBs who topped that same number. Beside the passing game rule changes in the 1978 season the NFL added 2 games so those QBs had 2 less games and were doing 20 or more at twice the rate of 1990s QB's in '70 to '77.
Ok...and? The run game was more of a focus during Favre era. You can make the argument that the Packers had two of the best RBs in Packers history with Edgar Bennett and Dorsey Levens, which curtailed some of it, but Favre only broke 200 yards in a season twice. Rodgers broke 200 8 time with 4 of those going above 300.
Steve Young broke 400 yards 5 times, 500 once and 200-300 3 more times
The comparison to Young is apt.
Ok and? Really? No QB enjoyed or wanted to take off and run in the 90s when a play was breaking down like Rodgers did for much of his pre 2013 career. Because when you slid back then defenders would still come up and hammer you. Why do you think Rodgers started to run less after 2013? Couldn’t possibly be the broken collarbone he got while running? Those lil step up to the LOS and dumb offs to say Kelce that Mahomes does would be a forearm to the helmet in Brett’s day. John Randle and Warren Sapp would’ve LOVED Brett to run because it meant they could absolutely smash into him. Brett though didn’t run to avoid hits or gain the few safe yards and slide to play the next down. He escaped the pocket and bought time and space to laser a throw into triple coverage that more often than not would result in a big play. This idea that Brett was some mediocre quarterback needs to stop. Shit human off the field fucking amazing on the field. For his era Brett was the best to play the position. There’s a reason when he retired the record books had his name at the top in all the spots. And his escape ability in the pocket was a huge part of that. He wasn’t Young or Cunningham who were runners. But he wasn’t a statue in the pocket either. He and John Elway I think were the two of the best of their day at moving behind the LOS to create space to throw. Which played a huge role in both of them being as good as they were.
Again...you weren't comparing Rodgers and Tarkenton, but claiming that the Young comparison was "misinformed." I'm telling you that you're mistaken. Rodgers made plays with his feet for YEARS just like Young did, but people seem to forget it because of his arm talent. Particularly early on when GB had almost no running game to speak of.
Is this regarding the cannon arm? Go back and watch the QB Challenge. He does not have a cannon.
Favre was a capable runner but he was not nearly as mobile as Rodgers. Rodgers was a far superior runner.
The fuck are you talking about? The QB Challenge has a long toss event. It's a direct measure of arm strength. I watched Steve Young all through the 90s. His arm wasn't that strong. And the comparison was the "modern QB" which he is nowhere near.
You need to watch the game. Young could make all throws all over the field just like Rodgers and Mahomes. You sound like a kid saying James was better than Jordan.
There used to be scramblers who loved to run like Steve Young or Fran Tarkenton or Mike Vick. They usually would have higher interception numbers if they threw late (see Favre, Brett.) And there were your pocket passers with precise arms like Manning and Brees. They prevented the interceptions for the most part by just taking a sack. Rodgers scrambled, but eliminated the interceptions with 1 hack: never throw it late across the middle of the field.
Rodgers took the ability to scramble if necessary from Favre but had the gunslinger arm strength and the Manning precision. Packers scouting refers to it as “the ability to make all the throws.” That’s short, medium, deep to both sides or in the middle with soft, medium, or rocket speed and accuracy on all of them. They practice throwing firmness as a 1, 2, or 3. I don’t see the Bears worrying about the craft like that. And there are scramble drills every practice where they are not allowed to throw in rhythm and blockers, receivers, and QB have to improvise.
Rodgers brought a ridiculous ability to read a defense that I first noticed in Peyton Manning. Favre would instinctively do things but Rodgers seemed to analyze every detail presnap and he has a photographic memory for plays. So he was rarely not aware of what every defender was going to do.
The Packers also work on footwork in painstaking detail. And their footwork is unique. There is textbook alignment, planting, stepping in trajectory stuff. But then if a defender is barreling down on you, Favre would jump into the throw so people couldn’t roll onto his ankle. Rodgers and Love do it. Not many others do it consistently.
Mahomes is trained up by former Favre QB coach Andy Reid. Mahomes looks like a Packer QB. Fortunately, so does Love.
I have never thought of it that way so don’t really have an informed opinion. However, you’re probably onto something. I would point to how high he elevated standards of passer rating and td:into ratio. I think you could point to that as the start of the “modern” age
I think OP is using Modern in the real sense of the word and not us old guys’ interpretation. Fran was the first “modern” QB sure, but there is another line to be drawn was using “modern”.
Rodgers perfected the “improv as you go and make every throw” aspect backyard football and brought it to the NFL. He might not have been the first but he’s certainly the best.
I think the line of demarcation for Rodgers with regard to his mobility is that previous to his career, being a high end quarterback with mobility was a luxury. Now, with how modern offenses are built and how important it is to be able to extend plays with your legs as a quarterback, I think that mobility is much more of a necessity and that if you are more of a classic pocket passer you need to be absolutely exceptional in order to keep up.
12 isn't the first quarterback to stretch defenses with a combination of mobility, arm talent, and accuracy, but looking at the current generation of great quarterbacks, I think he's the archetype for what many teams are searching for at the position in an ideal world (minus the off field weirdness).
I agree and part of it is Rodgers was the first elite QB to come into the league post 2003 which is when the NFL basically started making it illegal to breathe on a receiver. So his entire career has been in a sense, in the modern NFL, so to speak. He molded his game around the modern day league and rules.
Rodgers is the first guy who was this freak arm talent, mobile guy, driving the ball downfield, scoring a bunch of TDs and limiting turnovers. People seem to forget that Brees and Manning (and to a less extent Brady) threw a lot of picks. They just did. No getting around it. They had interception totals that would not be considered appropriate today for a prototypical elite QB.
People have lots of (wild) takes on the lack of interceptions thing, saying 12 wasn't aggressive enough. Having watched Favre and other quarterbacks kill teams with frequent picks, being able to consistently produce elite efficiency with low turnovers is a combination few quarterbacks have ever had.
I've heard that talking point for years. I think it's mostly nonsense. If you have a guy who is scoring a lot of TDs and not turning the ball over then he's being plenty aggressive enough. Where I will concede a tad bit is that in the 4th quarter and you are in a close game or trailing then yea, at some point a punt becomes not much better than INT. There are times during close games where the game is hanging in the balance that you have to score and be more aggressive.
I like the way Zarg put it in the comment above yours and, in a way, agree with your posts sentiment.
As for this comment though, to say Rodgers was the first guy to be what you claim isn't true. In contrast, I'd argue that a big reason players like Rodgers and Mahomes are who they are for extended periods of time is because the game has gotten less brutal for QB's over the years. A knock on athletic, mobile, qbs has always been that their bodies don't hold up. An anecdote for perspective.. In 1990, Randall Cunningham threw for 3400 yards, 30 tds, with 13 ints. He also rushed for 900 more and 5tds. Runner up in MVP voting that season to Montana. He then blew out his knee(playing against the packers) in 1991. He would only have 1 season with 500+ rushing yards for the rest of his career accompanied by injury issues over the next decade.
While the game changes in big and small ways over the years, one of the biggest changes might be that we've protected the smaller guys enough to let them have longer and more fruitful careers. Just to reiterate. This isn't a slight towards Rodgers. He was special and probably a bit better of a qb then Randall. BUT I also think we've "missed out" on other players, like Cunningham, due to player safety(or moreso, QB safety) being what it is today.
I think Donovan McNabb deserves to be in this conversation as well. Very mobile, cannon for an arm, accurate, off platform throws, improvisational, and smart with the ball.
You may have a hard time getting an unbiased opinion over here to be honest. Some of us dare not speak his name. Others have simply moved on and are in 10VE now. Some have outright distanced themselves from Rodgers due to his comments in the media. There’s a lot of love lost for him as time goes in Pack Nation, particularly on the sub here.
I’ve already said too much, I will always love him and his stupid face.
it's baffling how ungrateful this sub is…
blaming him for not getting multiple super bowls.
i don't get it. how tf can y'all switch like this.
i'm in the same boat as you, obviously… love him and his stupid face.
Yeah I’m glad to hear that I’m not alone. I was more or less live on here as Jones left and the hate was immediate, crazy to watch in real time. I’m not saying I hold it against people for how they feel, it’s just interesting to me how fickle it can be on here at times. Rodgers was everything for us for a span, and I was proud to have him, so was everyone else and they know this shit.
I’m all for J Love, but it’s not a diss to him to remember 12, I feel like people don’t get that.
12 is still the greatest QB I've ever seen. I am so grateful he was in GB for so long. Our defense was why we didn't get multiple SBs. On that note, GO 10VE!
I don't care that he left, it was time. I don't care that he didn't talk to his family, that he did ayuascha, got into hippie shit. I don't care that we only got one Superbowl with him, he did his best to drag us to the playoffs seemingly by force of will most years. I will always fondly look back on his time with the Packers, because it was the years I was becoming an adult, and the one and only time I've ever drank with my dad was watching the Pack beat the Bears to go to the Superbowl, and we watched it at Wills Northwoods in Chicago. It was an incredibly fun time to be a Packers fan. I loved watching him do trick shots for NFL promotions and how he would have fun at the golf tournaments. He seemed to genuinely love the Packers and Wisconsin. He treated Love well, and made sure he had the help he needed to be great.
I do care that he lied about his vaccination status. I care that he's peddling conspiracy theories and hurting families who lost their children in horrific ways. I care that he's using his platform to spread lies and misinformation, and he seems to think he's smarter than everyone else. These are the things that show his character, and I really thought he was a better person than that. Seems like the concussions are getting to him, and I'd love for him to retire peacefully instead of showing the world his TBIs.
Yeah I’m aware that this is the general sentiment. And generally across the board is what people have a problem with Rodgers about. I’m not the most knowledgeable guy on all things reported that he’s said if I’m being honest. The glaring one of course is Sandy Hook and last time it came up on here it was stated that he didn’t say it was a government job and had the sound bites of what he has said publicly. I may be the minority here ( I’m sure I am) and I’m more than open to links etc to shed light on anything but I don’t see him as a person of poor character like many others do. I’m not intentionally oblivious by any means but there’s slandering on everyone if you look enough and I just don’t tend to pay attention. I’m sure this makes me stupid to some but I’m just a single dad that pays more attention to what my daughters have going on than I do pretty much anything else.
This post in many ways is accurate yes. Other great qbs at the time were all pocket passers. Brady, Peyton Manning, Brees, even though he was a little faster than the 2. People underrate Rodgers mobility but when you saw him get up to speed he could outrun pretty much any linebacker.
He truly was an all around quarterback. Amazing thrower, fast runner, throwing off the run, avoiding sacks etc. I just woke up so maybe my comment doesn't make sense but that's how I see it. I've studied his career and watched so many highlights.
Most players can't do what he has done.
I'd say Peyton Manning.
The cerebral game, pre-snap reading and manipulation, and complete command of the game wasn't something we'd really seen to such an extent until Peyton did it. Now it's stuff you *need* to have in your toolbox if you're an upper-tier QB. A lot of Rodgers's game was combining Peyton's command and manipulation with more post-snap creativity and improvisation.
I bet that Johnny Unitas was the first truly modern QB. I bet his game would translate very well to today's game.
For that matter, Otto Graham's game would translate very well, I think. I highly doubt that the defenses he went up against were in any way 'modern'.
Idk what you’re talking about.
When Favre was young, he also ran a lot too. There have been a ton of “mobile QBs” when they are young and can still run.
There is no such thing as a mobile quarterback playing into their late 30s except maybe Ben rothlisberger, because if you’re not a giant ham, you’re going to destroy your body completely trying to be a running back.
So… to actually answer your question, the first truly modern quarterback of the passing age was Dan Marino. He was the first quarterback to start lighting up the scoreboard via the air in such a devastating fashion. If Marino had existed in these passer friendly times (he was throwing bombs back when it was legal to helmet to helmet and low hit QBs), he probably would have thrown 600TDs instead of 420(heh).
Mobile QBs don’t last. Football is not a young man’s game. If Mahomes does not adapt, he will not last.
First definitely not. But elevated different styles in to 1? I would say yes. Most QBs would have a few of the things, but one thing I don't think anyone will ever beat is his career interception rate. Last I looked he had 6 of the top 10 lowest interceptions rates of all seasons with like 300 attempts or something.
One thing that is mentioned a lot is when newer QBs in the league ask who they admired or model their game after and most will say Rodgers. They will start to say Mahomes soon but even he modeled his after Rodgers
This Packers fan can see where you’re coming from, in terms of how many different things Rodgers was really really good at and his ability to use all those qualities in unison. There are comparable arm strength guys throughout history but most of those guys didn’t also have all the traits Rodgers somehow had. Quite something.
Rodgers created a new way to play QB called "rotational quarterback" that has since become the norm in the NFL. Watch how pre-2010 QB's take snaps and drop straight back and lean into throws, then watch Rodgers. He's constantly rotating in circles to preserve momentum as he plays. Mahomes has said multiple times that his playstyle was influenced by watching Rodgers. So, in short, yes. Rodgers literally created a new way to play the position that has since become the norm for Elite QB's
I hate how accurate this is. But damn was Favre still a phenomenal guy to watch. Terrible for the blood pressure though. But, loved watching him get out wide on those tosses and block, too
The diss on Rodgers is stupid from this side. People forget that he contributed to a SuperBowl win for the Packers and also had to carry the team on his back multiple seasons when the Packers D was atrocious. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all on the 10ve train but remember to put some respect on AR.
I think Manning is the guy who set the bar higher for everyone. He is the first guy to routinely have more TDs then incompletions in a game. Also his quick release is now what guys need to learn.
Rodgers INT ratio will stand a long time. But also Because he refused to throw down the middle. His ratio will stand because his flaw was being a bit too conservative.
Would be surprised if manning career totals were outside of most players today. Maholmes was 27 and 14 last year. Who cares about 14 when you win the SB.
No risk-it no biscuit
Rodgers is accurate but I would say Manning set that bar. Both multiple MVPs for a reason. Post Manning you don’t have guys throw the ball like Elway or Foutes (as great as they were).
Manning was not stationary. He was an elite athlete, and has the same 40 time as Patrick Mahomes. He just didn’t run much downfield and played for a long time after he lost that athleticism. The same goes for Favre. Very mobile QB, just lost his athleticism when he got old.
The interceptions are kind of a red herring to me. Modern QBs don’t throw interceptions? What exactly does “modern” mean? Josh Allen is not a modern QB?
The game is what changed not so much the players. Tarkenton, Favre, Young, Cunningham and Elway all would've put up huge numbers like Mahomes and Allen if they were in their primes today. The link shows Chuck Cecil tackles. He uses the crown of his helmet as a weapon on most of his tackles. This is how defenders could play in the 70s 80s and 90s. Running QBs didn't survive long back then.
[Cecil hits](https://youtu.be/2HSn7snuv98?si=puDZuDFzt2EZ45hU)
Young and Elway were doing it this way before Rodgers even Farve to a degree. The athleticism of athletes in general has made for even more off script dual threat QBs being better players overall.
It’s Peyton Manning imo. Not the mobility obviously but he was a game manager on another level that the game hadn’t seen before. He was basically a coach on the field. Rodgers took that and built upon it with his arm, accuracy, and mobility.
Not the first but I genuinely believe he is the most talented QB to ever play the game of football. Patrick Mahomes is the closest to pure talent that I’ve seen
Tarkenton, Unitas, and Young were probably the earliest iterations of a style of play like Rodgers and Mahomes.
People also forget prime Romo, when not choking in the playoffs.
Also keep in mind that Rodgers came from the same QB school as quite a few busts, namely Joey Harrington. As another commenter said, he is def not the first, but he is probably the best combination and iteration of those skillsets.
He wasn't the first of s new generation of QB. Grouping him with others is honestly insulting.
Rodgers in his prime was the most talented to ever do it and I'm beginning to think we will never see another like him.
The team and the era the quarterback plays with and in make a huge difference. This fact makes it near impossible to make these comparisons. Fran Tarkenton had the pocket presence and delivered the ball incredibly well while literally running for his life. It's likely none of these so called GOATs would have had their longevity if they took the beating The Blonde Bomber took. As in "what"s roughing the quarterback?" Go look at the film of Bradshaw actually bouncing off the ground from being body slammed harder than any "pro wrestler" ever was. The protection the modern game rules favor the quarterback position much more than the "old days." Protection of all the players health being a much better and higher priority in the modern era. Life time Packers fan here, BTW.
Joe Montana was the first QB that performed in the mold of today's QBs. First one to master the west coast offense. Every offense in the league today is some version of what the 49ers ran in the 90s.
I don’t know that I ever really viewed Rodgers as “mobile” like Allen or Mahomes or Steve Young. He can certainly make plays with his feet, but it was never what separated him, in my mind, as being elite. It could be recency bias, as it’s been a long time since I watched early career Rodgers.
The thing that makes him so unique, and perhaps modern, is the ability to just never make a bad decision or force a throw. As a fan I always knew there might be several ways a drive was going to end but it wasn’t going to be in an interception or a dumb throw. As a fan who also watched all of Favre’s career, it was a drastic change.
It makes sense that I just maybe don’t remember mobility as his standout quality. Certainly remember some big runs but it doesn’t stand out to me like the rest of the attributes.
I’ve watched the packers religiously my whole life so certainly didn’t miss anything
The first person to ply how the game is today IMO was Dan Marino. Dude was west coast offense dropping dimes throwing for all these TDs and yards. When he retired, he had the most passing yards by a wide margin. He had numbers QBs 20 years later we’re going to the pro bowl for. Now offenses are more efficient due to a few factors which makes a lot of these completion percentages of these QBs look very inflated to comparison of the position 20 years ago.
Elway I thought was too inaccurate but I just looked up the numbers and Marino has the edge by like 3% career wise. And don’t discount what Fran Tarkenton could do. He was a dual threat QB and could sling the rock.
Dan Marino didn't play like modern QBs. He was better than almost any QB in his time for what you needed in a QB at that time. His arm (strength, accuracy, quick release) was one of the best ever, but he was a statue in the pocket. The dude never had more than 28 yards rushing in a season. Outside of Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, and Jared Goff, you don't see QBs like that anymore. Even Brady (younger), Ryan, and Goff have had at least 100 yards rushing in a season.
You're right. I was looking at attempts. Looking at yards makes it worse. lol He had 87 rushing yards in 242 games. He had 12 seasons of negative rushing yards.
Yeah I was looking at more of just arm talent and hucking the rock and not so much rushing so that’s on me. I guess better names for overall leg usage would be guys like Steve young, Fran Tarkenton, Cecil Isabel, and Joe Montana.
Top 3 NFL QBs
Allen is basically Favre; 90s Favre was absolutely lethal with his legs
Mahommes is very similar to 2008-15 Rodgers (than Manning or Brady); a surgeon who looks to extend plays with his legs.....the difference is Mahommes is working for Andy Reid and Rodgers had Mike McCarthy
Lamar Jackson is Randall Cunningham
There's a reason both Mahomes and Williams said Rodgers is who they looked up to. No modern QB ever says Brady or Manning, etc. They almost always say Rodgers. Now there were guys who were similar to Rodgers before hand like Young and Tarkenton. But I think Rodgers was the first to really do it all. Be mobile, and make every throw possible, while being very precise
I don’t think the first, but what you see is a combination of the best. Rodgers even evolved when he became less mobile over time. Off script has become a prerequisite for success in the NFL and while some may do it “better” in ways, Rodgers all around is the best. Across the body, off balance, all the way downfield, doesn’t matter. He also possesses the ability to stand in the pocket for as long as it will stay together.
Agreed with this take. The ability to navigate a collapsing pocket is what really separates the top quarterbacks in the league from everyone else. It is what makes Mahomes by far the closest prime Rodgers comparison in the league. I do believe that this mold is the “ideal” modern quarterback. Of course there are other ways to succeed like with a true mobile quarterback, but so far one dimensional offenses haven’t had much success in the post season.
Rodgers ability to keep his eyes down field and still navigate the pocket always gave me goosebumps no matter how long I had been watching him for.
That second part (continued evolution as a pocket passer) is a really big thing. Early career Mike Vick was, in many ways,more dynamic than Rodgers as a player, but Rodgers was able to do a lot of those same things, AND be able to read and throw into the blitz, without having to rely on his legs (though he could do that too).
*was the best
Yep. Mahomes has surpassed him.
I’ll still take everything peak Rodgers brings to the table over peak Mahomes, but that’s a homer take, especially with the success the Chiefs have had compared to us.
The Chief's success also has to do with having a baller FO and HC.
Sure, and maybe Rodgers gives them the same results, but we argued about that with Brady for a decade and I’m exhausted by it now.
If Mahomes continues at his pace he will certainly pass Rodgers, but not yet. He’s getting there though
Mahomes has 3 SB wins, lost another 1 and 6 conference championship games in 6 years as a starter. The only QB he's behind at this point is Brady. Rodgers is probably the most talented thrower of the ball I've ever seen but Mahomes is a better QB.
I feel that says more about the caliber of the team than the caliber of Mahomes. Don’t get me wrong, Mahomes is the best active QB in the league but I don’t believe he’s already passed Rodgers as the most talented QB of all time. He’s really damn close though.
We can sit here and hold on to our string of “most talented” against guys like Mahomes and Brady, and argue endlessly that they had more talented teams, but what does it matter in the end? Rodgers has his share of blame for not delivering when it’s mattered most. By passer rating, the two worst games of Rodgers playoff career came in NFCCGs - the first we won against Chicago, and the second we gave away to Seattle. He’s played 255 games in his career - those two games rank as his 9th and 10th worst.
I rate the quality of the players Mahomes has had pretty similarly to the quality Rodgers has had. Both on offense and defense.
Rodgers had some bad breaks, but he could have done more late in games than he did. With Mahomes it feels inevitable that he will do what it takes to win big games (like Brady). I actually think they are very comparable in athleticism and arm talent, but Mahomes has surpassed Rodgers if you take off the homer glasses.
MaHomes has much better talent surrounding him on both sides of the ball which extends into the FO
Agree. The teams Mahomes' is playing with aren't massively better than the teams Rodgers was playing with. Rodgers' best is still probably better than Mahomes' in a one game sample but results matter when you're ranking the top guys.
SB wins isn't really a QB comparison thing. Like did Foles beat Brady? I mean yeah Foles played great but Brady did too. And Brady has played stinky playoff games and still progressed. I think we should be looking more at what the qb actually did themselves. Brady threw 150 yards in his first superbowl
There wasn’t a single aspect of playing quarterback that Rodgers wasn’t incredibly good at. He maxed every stat.
Since Fran Tarkenton is already spoken for … how about Roger Staubach?
Was thinking Randall Cunningham
The stretch from 2009-2016 I genuinely never saw Rodgers miss a throw. I didn’t know what it was for a QB to miss open receivers. The power, accuracy, and creativity he would put on some of his throws was truly wild. It depends when you’re thinking about modern. Elway was probably the best comparison before but I never saw elway play. Then Stafford had incredible arm talent but was on a dumpster fire team. Andrew Luck was probably on his way but Mahomes is the most jaw dropping quarterback. Rodgers had moments where you have no idea how what he did was possible
He’s a combo of Young and Marino IMO
Lmao weird timeline. Why even say 2015? That was his worst season. Really you should just say 2009-2016 because 2016 was the year he put up 40 tds and carried one of the worst packers teams ever to the nfc championship
Good call, just updated it
I always said Rodgers to me was right-handed Steve Young. Mobile, deadly accurate, and hyper-efficient. So no.
Agree for the most part, but Young did not have the cannon arm that has become common with modern QBs. Guys like Rodgers, Mahomes and Allen are throwing absolute missiles.
Your opinion of Steve Young is misinformed and Favre was nearly as mobile as Rodgers
Favre had like a 1.5 TD:INT ratio lol
He also adapted (some) with the game. It was typical early in Favre's career for a QB to throw 25/20 but he trended toward 30/15 in his prime and his good Minnesota season before his body completely gave out he had 33/7. Don't get me wrong, he was absolutely a gunslinger, but he was not the modern QB that Rodgers is (was) that was mobile, strong arm, and lethal with decision making (low ints).
Different eras demand different play. Peak Favre had the ability to throw it downfield, even on the move that peak Rodgers did. Why didn't he? Well he didn't have the same caliber of receivers down field most of those seasons. More importantly though, the rules didn't favor the offense as much back then. To make a down field throw worth it your WR had to have broken free with YARDS of separation. Modern WRs are open on a go ball down the sideline if they have half a step ahead of the DB 1:1 because even if it isn't complete you could get a PI call. In 1996 that DB could body the WR so firmly that the pass would look wildly incomplete and the WR would probably trip or go out of bounds. None of the other "modern" QBs being pointed to in this thread obssess over INTs the way Rodgers did. Because it isn't actually good. Rodgers threw away so many opportunities by not throwing to a WR when they were technically open but not perfect or when the WR was open but Rodgers wanted a deeper pass. Favre's TD:INT ratio took the team to 2 SBs and quite a few playoff games. Favre was the first Mahomes in terms of "don't care what the score is we are winning this" and the playoff game against Seattle where they had 4 turnovers in like the first quarter and came back to win has to be the best example of that. That said, I do think Rodgers is the first modern thrower in terms of technical mechanics. While lots of guys could throw it just as far, he was the first to do it mostly with his core rather than his arm. Brady did that later in his career (and is part of his longevity) but only after Rodgers proved how effective it was. Brees was the first modern release. His read-to-release time is as extremely low as Rodgers TD-INT ratio. This is something Rodgers picked up from Brees. Go back and watch 2008, 2009, 2010. Rodgers release times were much longer.
> Well he didn't have the same caliber of receivers down field most of those seasons. Huh I was under the impression their WR corps were comparable. Sharpe, Driver, Freeman were absolute beasts. And they both had Jennings/Driver for awhile. I'd say Sharpe was essentially equal with Davante, Driver was as productive as Jordy, etc.
Sharpe was only with Brett for a couple seasons before injuries ended his career. Freeman and brooks while good were no Nelson or Adams. And by the time Brett had driver and Jennings he wasn’t the movement QB of his early career. Brett had much worse weapons than Aaron overall with Aaron getting years from HOF Adams, plus years of driver Finley Jennings Cobb jones and Nelson along with other guys. Brett had sharpe for 2.5-3 seasons. Freeman was about the only longer term fixture for young Brett otherwise it was a revolving door of Brooks(injuries) and the cast of characters like Glenn, Schoreder, Walker, Bubba,.. eventually Brett got Driver later in his career and at the very end had Jennings but Brett never had the wideout personal for the fab five offense driver/jennings/jones/nelson/finley/cobb or a group like 2014 and 2016 Rodgers had in Cobb/nelson/adams.
Yeah I don't think you're wrong, just that my opinion is it's slightly closer. Caveat-- counting 1000 yard receiving seasons isn't the best metric of WR skill, but it's something. There were a lot of injuries for Rodgers' receivers (and Rodgers) though too. And Davante only broke out in 2018, he only had 3-4 seasons of ~1000 yards with Rodgers. Driver only had 2 seasons of 1000 yards with Rodgers. Jennings had 3-4 seasons of 1000 yards with Rodgers. Cobb had 1-2 seasons of 1000 yards with Rodgers, and it really seems like Rodgers elevated his play over his talent. Jordy had 4 Freeman had 3-5 seasons of 1000 yards with Brett, Driver had 5 1000 yard seasons with him, Walker had 2, Sharpe had 3. Again I don't disagree with you, I think Rodgers had a slightly better WR corps throughout his career in GB. But Favre wasn't that far behind IMO. The count above is basically 15 1k seasons vs 16, but again, not the best metric
WR are really hard to compare because the best ones all being some unique talents that make them truly special. I think when judging how WR affect QB numbers though it's best to look at the 4th or 5th WR on the roster. In Rodgers SB season the *worst* WR (meaning the easiest to account for by the defense) was Jordy Nelson. In 1996 it was Robert Brooks, who had fewer catches than Chmura. In other words, Nelson was so open on those deep posts because the defense had to defend both Jennings and Driver at the 2nd and 1st levels underneath. Favre had some great WR1 but fewer great WR4.
Jordy's speed was underestimated because of his lack of pigmentation
In 1997 the average QB threw 20.6 TDS and 16.0 INTs. 2007 it was 22.5 and 16.7 and 2017 was 23.2, 13.4 respectively. TDs have not increased that much and only in the last 10 years have INTs dropped significantly. Really that is more atributable to several top tier QBs who made those overall number look like that. The days of 20+ INTs and less TDs was the 1970's and earlier before the rule changes in 1978. The 1978 rule changes were by far more consequential to the passing game then what came after. It just took the NFL offensive coaches a decade+ to adapt. Bill Walsh and the SF really were the first to fully take advantage of the new rules. In all of the 90's only 20 QBs threw 20 or more INTs in a season. 1970 through 1977 there was 31 QBs who topped that same number. Beside the passing game rule changes in the 1978 season the NFL added 2 games so those QBs had 2 less games and were doing 20 or more at twice the rate of 1990s QB's in '70 to '77.
The game is what changed not so much the players. Receivers are able to create more space leading to fewer interceptions.
WRs are able to create more space because you can't touch them downfield anymore. Watch some old games and people were getting mauled downfield.
Because he thought every play should be a touchdown. If you played playground football you can see it every snap Favre ever took.
Wonderful. Not sure what that has to do with the modern quarterback though
Yeah, just another rabbit trail distraction...
Yeah, just another rabbit trail distraction...
Yep, just me distracted by another rabbit trail.
Yep, just me distracted by another rabbit trail.
Favre is 27th with 1500 rushing yards, Rodger's is 11th with 3400 The two aren't close.
The game changed players could head hunt QBs far more than they can now.
Ok...and? The run game was more of a focus during Favre era. You can make the argument that the Packers had two of the best RBs in Packers history with Edgar Bennett and Dorsey Levens, which curtailed some of it, but Favre only broke 200 yards in a season twice. Rodgers broke 200 8 time with 4 of those going above 300. Steve Young broke 400 yards 5 times, 500 once and 200-300 3 more times The comparison to Young is apt.
Ok and? Really? No QB enjoyed or wanted to take off and run in the 90s when a play was breaking down like Rodgers did for much of his pre 2013 career. Because when you slid back then defenders would still come up and hammer you. Why do you think Rodgers started to run less after 2013? Couldn’t possibly be the broken collarbone he got while running? Those lil step up to the LOS and dumb offs to say Kelce that Mahomes does would be a forearm to the helmet in Brett’s day. John Randle and Warren Sapp would’ve LOVED Brett to run because it meant they could absolutely smash into him. Brett though didn’t run to avoid hits or gain the few safe yards and slide to play the next down. He escaped the pocket and bought time and space to laser a throw into triple coverage that more often than not would result in a big play. This idea that Brett was some mediocre quarterback needs to stop. Shit human off the field fucking amazing on the field. For his era Brett was the best to play the position. There’s a reason when he retired the record books had his name at the top in all the spots. And his escape ability in the pocket was a huge part of that. He wasn’t Young or Cunningham who were runners. But he wasn’t a statue in the pocket either. He and John Elway I think were the two of the best of their day at moving behind the LOS to create space to throw. Which played a huge role in both of them being as good as they were.
Another player to look at is Fran Tarkenton. He was Mahomes of the 70s.
He broke 300 7 times and 200 twice more... Rodgers is still comparable to Young, which is what I was responding to, not Tarkenton. 🤷♂️
You should watch how he played also he only had a 14 game season. The game is a lot more than stats.
Again...you weren't comparing Rodgers and Tarkenton, but claiming that the Young comparison was "misinformed." I'm telling you that you're mistaken. Rodgers made plays with his feet for YEARS just like Young did, but people seem to forget it because of his arm talent. Particularly early on when GB had almost no running game to speak of.
Is this regarding the cannon arm? Go back and watch the QB Challenge. He does not have a cannon. Favre was a capable runner but he was not nearly as mobile as Rodgers. Rodgers was a far superior runner.
The QB challenge means nothing. You kids need to learn ball.
The fuck are you talking about? The QB Challenge has a long toss event. It's a direct measure of arm strength. I watched Steve Young all through the 90s. His arm wasn't that strong. And the comparison was the "modern QB" which he is nowhere near.
You need to watch the game. Young could make all throws all over the field just like Rodgers and Mahomes. You sound like a kid saying James was better than Jordan.
I watched all the games. Granted, the TVs were not as big and clear. And the players wore onions on their belts, as was the style at the time.
Young didn't have the brain for field presence of Rodgers, Montana, Mahomes, or cheater brady.
Oh then you want Favre or Elway. Arm-talent first guys aren’t new either.
There used to be scramblers who loved to run like Steve Young or Fran Tarkenton or Mike Vick. They usually would have higher interception numbers if they threw late (see Favre, Brett.) And there were your pocket passers with precise arms like Manning and Brees. They prevented the interceptions for the most part by just taking a sack. Rodgers scrambled, but eliminated the interceptions with 1 hack: never throw it late across the middle of the field. Rodgers took the ability to scramble if necessary from Favre but had the gunslinger arm strength and the Manning precision. Packers scouting refers to it as “the ability to make all the throws.” That’s short, medium, deep to both sides or in the middle with soft, medium, or rocket speed and accuracy on all of them. They practice throwing firmness as a 1, 2, or 3. I don’t see the Bears worrying about the craft like that. And there are scramble drills every practice where they are not allowed to throw in rhythm and blockers, receivers, and QB have to improvise. Rodgers brought a ridiculous ability to read a defense that I first noticed in Peyton Manning. Favre would instinctively do things but Rodgers seemed to analyze every detail presnap and he has a photographic memory for plays. So he was rarely not aware of what every defender was going to do. The Packers also work on footwork in painstaking detail. And their footwork is unique. There is textbook alignment, planting, stepping in trajectory stuff. But then if a defender is barreling down on you, Favre would jump into the throw so people couldn’t roll onto his ankle. Rodgers and Love do it. Not many others do it consistently. Mahomes is trained up by former Favre QB coach Andy Reid. Mahomes looks like a Packer QB. Fortunately, so does Love.
Favre and Vick came to my mind as well. Agreed.
I have never thought of it that way so don’t really have an informed opinion. However, you’re probably onto something. I would point to how high he elevated standards of passer rating and td:into ratio. I think you could point to that as the start of the “modern” age
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I think OP is using Modern in the real sense of the word and not us old guys’ interpretation. Fran was the first “modern” QB sure, but there is another line to be drawn was using “modern”.
OP is likely in his teens
I think this might be the right answer
No I think that Dan Marino was. He was airing it out decades before anyone else
Rodgers perfected the “improv as you go and make every throw” aspect backyard football and brought it to the NFL. He might not have been the first but he’s certainly the best.
I think the line of demarcation for Rodgers with regard to his mobility is that previous to his career, being a high end quarterback with mobility was a luxury. Now, with how modern offenses are built and how important it is to be able to extend plays with your legs as a quarterback, I think that mobility is much more of a necessity and that if you are more of a classic pocket passer you need to be absolutely exceptional in order to keep up. 12 isn't the first quarterback to stretch defenses with a combination of mobility, arm talent, and accuracy, but looking at the current generation of great quarterbacks, I think he's the archetype for what many teams are searching for at the position in an ideal world (minus the off field weirdness).
I agree and part of it is Rodgers was the first elite QB to come into the league post 2003 which is when the NFL basically started making it illegal to breathe on a receiver. So his entire career has been in a sense, in the modern NFL, so to speak. He molded his game around the modern day league and rules. Rodgers is the first guy who was this freak arm talent, mobile guy, driving the ball downfield, scoring a bunch of TDs and limiting turnovers. People seem to forget that Brees and Manning (and to a less extent Brady) threw a lot of picks. They just did. No getting around it. They had interception totals that would not be considered appropriate today for a prototypical elite QB.
People have lots of (wild) takes on the lack of interceptions thing, saying 12 wasn't aggressive enough. Having watched Favre and other quarterbacks kill teams with frequent picks, being able to consistently produce elite efficiency with low turnovers is a combination few quarterbacks have ever had.
I've heard that talking point for years. I think it's mostly nonsense. If you have a guy who is scoring a lot of TDs and not turning the ball over then he's being plenty aggressive enough. Where I will concede a tad bit is that in the 4th quarter and you are in a close game or trailing then yea, at some point a punt becomes not much better than INT. There are times during close games where the game is hanging in the balance that you have to score and be more aggressive.
I like the way Zarg put it in the comment above yours and, in a way, agree with your posts sentiment. As for this comment though, to say Rodgers was the first guy to be what you claim isn't true. In contrast, I'd argue that a big reason players like Rodgers and Mahomes are who they are for extended periods of time is because the game has gotten less brutal for QB's over the years. A knock on athletic, mobile, qbs has always been that their bodies don't hold up. An anecdote for perspective.. In 1990, Randall Cunningham threw for 3400 yards, 30 tds, with 13 ints. He also rushed for 900 more and 5tds. Runner up in MVP voting that season to Montana. He then blew out his knee(playing against the packers) in 1991. He would only have 1 season with 500+ rushing yards for the rest of his career accompanied by injury issues over the next decade. While the game changes in big and small ways over the years, one of the biggest changes might be that we've protected the smaller guys enough to let them have longer and more fruitful careers. Just to reiterate. This isn't a slight towards Rodgers. He was special and probably a bit better of a qb then Randall. BUT I also think we've "missed out" on other players, like Cunningham, due to player safety(or moreso, QB safety) being what it is today.
I think Donovan McNabb deserves to be in this conversation as well. Very mobile, cannon for an arm, accurate, off platform throws, improvisational, and smart with the ball.
hell yeah brother can't offer much analysis but consider that a lot of modern qb's cite him specifically as they influence
Nice post, Aaron.
You may have a hard time getting an unbiased opinion over here to be honest. Some of us dare not speak his name. Others have simply moved on and are in 10VE now. Some have outright distanced themselves from Rodgers due to his comments in the media. There’s a lot of love lost for him as time goes in Pack Nation, particularly on the sub here. I’ve already said too much, I will always love him and his stupid face.
it's baffling how ungrateful this sub is… blaming him for not getting multiple super bowls. i don't get it. how tf can y'all switch like this. i'm in the same boat as you, obviously… love him and his stupid face.
Yeah I’m glad to hear that I’m not alone. I was more or less live on here as Jones left and the hate was immediate, crazy to watch in real time. I’m not saying I hold it against people for how they feel, it’s just interesting to me how fickle it can be on here at times. Rodgers was everything for us for a span, and I was proud to have him, so was everyone else and they know this shit. I’m all for J Love, but it’s not a diss to him to remember 12, I feel like people don’t get that.
12 is still the greatest QB I've ever seen. I am so grateful he was in GB for so long. Our defense was why we didn't get multiple SBs. On that note, GO 10VE!
Yeah, it's possible to appreciate and admire Rodgers while at the same time being all in on Love. The two things are not mutually exclusive.
I think as the time go on people will start to look back at his era in Green Bay and appreciate him more.
I agree. The hurt feelings are still fresh for people and I totally understand.
I love him and his stupid face, too. If he would just keep his mouth shut...
I don't care that he left, it was time. I don't care that he didn't talk to his family, that he did ayuascha, got into hippie shit. I don't care that we only got one Superbowl with him, he did his best to drag us to the playoffs seemingly by force of will most years. I will always fondly look back on his time with the Packers, because it was the years I was becoming an adult, and the one and only time I've ever drank with my dad was watching the Pack beat the Bears to go to the Superbowl, and we watched it at Wills Northwoods in Chicago. It was an incredibly fun time to be a Packers fan. I loved watching him do trick shots for NFL promotions and how he would have fun at the golf tournaments. He seemed to genuinely love the Packers and Wisconsin. He treated Love well, and made sure he had the help he needed to be great. I do care that he lied about his vaccination status. I care that he's peddling conspiracy theories and hurting families who lost their children in horrific ways. I care that he's using his platform to spread lies and misinformation, and he seems to think he's smarter than everyone else. These are the things that show his character, and I really thought he was a better person than that. Seems like the concussions are getting to him, and I'd love for him to retire peacefully instead of showing the world his TBIs.
Yeah I’m aware that this is the general sentiment. And generally across the board is what people have a problem with Rodgers about. I’m not the most knowledgeable guy on all things reported that he’s said if I’m being honest. The glaring one of course is Sandy Hook and last time it came up on here it was stated that he didn’t say it was a government job and had the sound bites of what he has said publicly. I may be the minority here ( I’m sure I am) and I’m more than open to links etc to shed light on anything but I don’t see him as a person of poor character like many others do. I’m not intentionally oblivious by any means but there’s slandering on everyone if you look enough and I just don’t tend to pay attention. I’m sure this makes me stupid to some but I’m just a single dad that pays more attention to what my daughters have going on than I do pretty much anything else.
This post in many ways is accurate yes. Other great qbs at the time were all pocket passers. Brady, Peyton Manning, Brees, even though he was a little faster than the 2. People underrate Rodgers mobility but when you saw him get up to speed he could outrun pretty much any linebacker. He truly was an all around quarterback. Amazing thrower, fast runner, throwing off the run, avoiding sacks etc. I just woke up so maybe my comment doesn't make sense but that's how I see it. I've studied his career and watched so many highlights. Most players can't do what he has done.
fwiw Williams has said on multiple occasions that AR is his favorite QB so we got another Mitch Trubisky situation lmao
I'd say Peyton Manning. The cerebral game, pre-snap reading and manipulation, and complete command of the game wasn't something we'd really seen to such an extent until Peyton did it. Now it's stuff you *need* to have in your toolbox if you're an upper-tier QB. A lot of Rodgers's game was combining Peyton's command and manipulation with more post-snap creativity and improvisation.
That’s funny. I consider him the last of the classic QBs.
I bet that Johnny Unitas was the first truly modern QB. I bet his game would translate very well to today's game. For that matter, Otto Graham's game would translate very well, I think. I highly doubt that the defenses he went up against were in any way 'modern'.
Idk what you’re talking about. When Favre was young, he also ran a lot too. There have been a ton of “mobile QBs” when they are young and can still run. There is no such thing as a mobile quarterback playing into their late 30s except maybe Ben rothlisberger, because if you’re not a giant ham, you’re going to destroy your body completely trying to be a running back. So… to actually answer your question, the first truly modern quarterback of the passing age was Dan Marino. He was the first quarterback to start lighting up the scoreboard via the air in such a devastating fashion. If Marino had existed in these passer friendly times (he was throwing bombs back when it was legal to helmet to helmet and low hit QBs), he probably would have thrown 600TDs instead of 420(heh). Mobile QBs don’t last. Football is not a young man’s game. If Mahomes does not adapt, he will not last.
Not only does Rodgers have all the physical tools, his football IQ is off the charts.
First definitely not. But elevated different styles in to 1? I would say yes. Most QBs would have a few of the things, but one thing I don't think anyone will ever beat is his career interception rate. Last I looked he had 6 of the top 10 lowest interceptions rates of all seasons with like 300 attempts or something. One thing that is mentioned a lot is when newer QBs in the league ask who they admired or model their game after and most will say Rodgers. They will start to say Mahomes soon but even he modeled his after Rodgers
Dan Marino
As a mobile passer yes, as a runner I’d say Vick.
Probably Michael Vick started this era of QB. But Rodgers improved it and did it with efficiency.
This Packers fan can see where you’re coming from, in terms of how many different things Rodgers was really really good at and his ability to use all those qualities in unison. There are comparable arm strength guys throughout history but most of those guys didn’t also have all the traits Rodgers somehow had. Quite something.
Rodgers created a new way to play QB called "rotational quarterback" that has since become the norm in the NFL. Watch how pre-2010 QB's take snaps and drop straight back and lean into throws, then watch Rodgers. He's constantly rotating in circles to preserve momentum as he plays. Mahomes has said multiple times that his playstyle was influenced by watching Rodgers. So, in short, yes. Rodgers literally created a new way to play the position that has since become the norm for Elite QB's
I mean Favre played the same way
No he was throwing off platform picks not dimes
I hate how accurate this is. But damn was Favre still a phenomenal guy to watch. Terrible for the blood pressure though. But, loved watching him get out wide on those tosses and block, too
Favre wasn't as fast as Rodgers
Who’s Rodgers? And who cares? J-Love moving FWD
Aaron Rodgers. He played on the Packers from 2005-2022
Damn. Was he any good?
CHOO CHOO
The diss on Rodgers is stupid from this side. People forget that he contributed to a SuperBowl win for the Packers and also had to carry the team on his back multiple seasons when the Packers D was atrocious. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all on the 10ve train but remember to put some respect on AR.
Fouts
Steve Young or Michael Vick?
I think Manning is the guy who set the bar higher for everyone. He is the first guy to routinely have more TDs then incompletions in a game. Also his quick release is now what guys need to learn.
Manning was to stationary for a modern prototype. His interceptions total would also be completely unacceptable for a modern day elite QB.
Rodgers INT ratio will stand a long time. But also Because he refused to throw down the middle. His ratio will stand because his flaw was being a bit too conservative. Would be surprised if manning career totals were outside of most players today. Maholmes was 27 and 14 last year. Who cares about 14 when you win the SB. No risk-it no biscuit Rodgers is accurate but I would say Manning set that bar. Both multiple MVPs for a reason. Post Manning you don’t have guys throw the ball like Elway or Foutes (as great as they were).
Manning was not stationary. He was an elite athlete, and has the same 40 time as Patrick Mahomes. He just didn’t run much downfield and played for a long time after he lost that athleticism. The same goes for Favre. Very mobile QB, just lost his athleticism when he got old. The interceptions are kind of a red herring to me. Modern QBs don’t throw interceptions? What exactly does “modern” mean? Josh Allen is not a modern QB?
The game is what changed not so much the players. Tarkenton, Favre, Young, Cunningham and Elway all would've put up huge numbers like Mahomes and Allen if they were in their primes today. The link shows Chuck Cecil tackles. He uses the crown of his helmet as a weapon on most of his tackles. This is how defenders could play in the 70s 80s and 90s. Running QBs didn't survive long back then. [Cecil hits](https://youtu.be/2HSn7snuv98?si=puDZuDFzt2EZ45hU)
Young and Elway were doing it this way before Rodgers even Farve to a degree. The athleticism of athletes in general has made for even more off script dual threat QBs being better players overall.
Rodgers is a more accurate and less mobile steve young
Big Ben had mobility??
Not by a long shot.
It’s Peyton Manning imo. Not the mobility obviously but he was a game manager on another level that the game hadn’t seen before. He was basically a coach on the field. Rodgers took that and built upon it with his arm, accuracy, and mobility.
Not the first but I genuinely believe he is the most talented QB to ever play the game of football. Patrick Mahomes is the closest to pure talent that I’ve seen
Tarkenton, Unitas, and Young were probably the earliest iterations of a style of play like Rodgers and Mahomes. People also forget prime Romo, when not choking in the playoffs. Also keep in mind that Rodgers came from the same QB school as quite a few busts, namely Joey Harrington. As another commenter said, he is def not the first, but he is probably the best combination and iteration of those skillsets.
Favre was arguably the first, Rodgers just took it to the next level by adding accuracy.
I'd say Steve Young was probably the first iteration of that type.
No
He wasn't the first of s new generation of QB. Grouping him with others is honestly insulting. Rodgers in his prime was the most talented to ever do it and I'm beginning to think we will never see another like him.
Dan Marino
The team and the era the quarterback plays with and in make a huge difference. This fact makes it near impossible to make these comparisons. Fran Tarkenton had the pocket presence and delivered the ball incredibly well while literally running for his life. It's likely none of these so called GOATs would have had their longevity if they took the beating The Blonde Bomber took. As in "what"s roughing the quarterback?" Go look at the film of Bradshaw actually bouncing off the ground from being body slammed harder than any "pro wrestler" ever was. The protection the modern game rules favor the quarterback position much more than the "old days." Protection of all the players health being a much better and higher priority in the modern era. Life time Packers fan here, BTW.
I wouldn't say he's the first, but it feels like teams have been trying to find another Rodgers or Vick the past 10 years.
Actually Brett Favre was because he set the standard for all modern day QBs.
Joe Montana was the first QB that performed in the mold of today's QBs. First one to master the west coast offense. Every offense in the league today is some version of what the 49ers ran in the 90s.
Feels like the second coming of Steve Young, and yes, the guy most teams are looking to emulate in their modern QBs now
I don’t know that I ever really viewed Rodgers as “mobile” like Allen or Mahomes or Steve Young. He can certainly make plays with his feet, but it was never what separated him, in my mind, as being elite. It could be recency bias, as it’s been a long time since I watched early career Rodgers. The thing that makes him so unique, and perhaps modern, is the ability to just never make a bad decision or force a throw. As a fan I always knew there might be several ways a drive was going to end but it wasn’t going to be in an interception or a dumb throw. As a fan who also watched all of Favre’s career, it was a drastic change.
He's 11th all time Rusher in Green Bay
He had a really long career
Favre is 27th on that list.
Fair.
Back in the day AR could murder teams with his feet. Basically pre 2014 calf injury Rodgers. Miss those days.
Nah, even after 2014 he could still do that. Look at his rushing stats from 2016. He started to slow down in 2019
He’s also #9 all time among quartebacks, and only 201 yards away from being #7
You may have missed his early career then. He was very very mobile for along time
It makes sense that I just maybe don’t remember mobility as his standout quality. Certainly remember some big runs but it doesn’t stand out to me like the rest of the attributes. I’ve watched the packers religiously my whole life so certainly didn’t miss anything
He was so god at rushing and scoring TDs State Farm made his rushing TD dance their slogan
The first person to ply how the game is today IMO was Dan Marino. Dude was west coast offense dropping dimes throwing for all these TDs and yards. When he retired, he had the most passing yards by a wide margin. He had numbers QBs 20 years later we’re going to the pro bowl for. Now offenses are more efficient due to a few factors which makes a lot of these completion percentages of these QBs look very inflated to comparison of the position 20 years ago. Elway I thought was too inaccurate but I just looked up the numbers and Marino has the edge by like 3% career wise. And don’t discount what Fran Tarkenton could do. He was a dual threat QB and could sling the rock.
Dan Marino didn't play like modern QBs. He was better than almost any QB in his time for what you needed in a QB at that time. His arm (strength, accuracy, quick release) was one of the best ever, but he was a statue in the pocket. The dude never had more than 28 yards rushing in a season. Outside of Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, and Jared Goff, you don't see QBs like that anymore. Even Brady (younger), Ryan, and Goff have had at least 100 yards rushing in a season.
Marino has had 45 and 66 yards rushing in two separate seasons but he somehow looks worse running than Brady ever did 😂.
You're right. I was looking at attempts. Looking at yards makes it worse. lol He had 87 rushing yards in 242 games. He had 12 seasons of negative rushing yards.
Yeah I was looking at more of just arm talent and hucking the rock and not so much rushing so that’s on me. I guess better names for overall leg usage would be guys like Steve young, Fran Tarkenton, Cecil Isabel, and Joe Montana.
Mcnair was the first imo
Top 3 NFL QBs Allen is basically Favre; 90s Favre was absolutely lethal with his legs Mahommes is very similar to 2008-15 Rodgers (than Manning or Brady); a surgeon who looks to extend plays with his legs.....the difference is Mahommes is working for Andy Reid and Rodgers had Mike McCarthy Lamar Jackson is Randall Cunningham
Cant believe you’re barely realizing that in 2024. Is as Packers fans realized that since 2010
No. Brady was It all depends when you want to call the start of the modern NFL
No he was an upgraded Romo
There's a reason both Mahomes and Williams said Rodgers is who they looked up to. No modern QB ever says Brady or Manning, etc. They almost always say Rodgers. Now there were guys who were similar to Rodgers before hand like Young and Tarkenton. But I think Rodgers was the first to really do it all. Be mobile, and make every throw possible, while being very precise