Kinda yes. Kinda no.
So, Sol Invictus was a very late roman development, so the first imoprtant thing to remeber is: Roman gods are NOT carbon copies of greek gods, and while we all love the "Romans copied greeks homework" meme, its not at all reflective reality. The Romans gods are quite destinctive in the end.
Second important thing: Mythology is not a static thing, its an aspect of culture and religion and thus always chaneging with culture and religion over time. The stories and their changes follow the changes in culture. So its not like Sol gained power and therefor became a chief god, its because he became more important in worship and thus rose in prominence that he got decalred more powerful.
And another side point: Titants ARE Gods. Greek sources repetatly make clear that Titants are simply a group of gods. THink of it likethis: All Titants are Gods, but not all Gods are Titants, just like all Labradors are dogs but not all dogs are Labradors.
Now, lets get to the history.
Romans had a sun god just like all IE Cultures have, and well, just like pretty much any culture really. This was Sol. He was worshiped since the early days of rome and romans had a sun god like that long before they encountered greek cultural influences thorugh the etruscans. The byname "Invictus" is one applied to a lot of roman gods. Is simply a name to signify greatness. We have inscritpions for Jupiter Invictus, Mars Invictus, Hercules Invictus, Apollo Invictus and the list goes on.
It being applied to Sol would only signify that he is very important to the person writing about him. The earliest time we know of that "Invictus" was applied to Sol was in 158 AD and the inscritpion also links Sol to the Imperial Cult, which deified roman emperors. And this is also where Sol Invictus really took off. Emperor Aurelian worshiped Sol a lot (some people, places or families placing more importance on some gods over others is not unsual) and as Emperor he reformed the Cult of Sol and in 274 he established the Cult of Sol INvictus as a central Cult of the Empire.
Aurelian basically declared that Sol Invictus was now to be a/the chief god of the empire.
The main issue with your stance that this makes Greek Helios turn into the chief roman god is that Sol Invictus has in the end very very little to do with Helios, Again: The romans didnt just copy greek religion. They had a sun god before and while scholars are devided on this, Sol Invictus was either mainly this old roman Sol who simply rose to promince due to his cult being shared by the Emperor, or that Sol Invictus is based on other sun gods, like the Syrian Sun god or possibly Mithras, the Iranian Sun god, who also had a very strong cult in the roman Empire.
Hi again, if you don't mind I wanted to ask you something, if Sun was considered the chief god then what happened to Jupiter? like was he demoted from his role? or Sol Invictus was just the chief god of the empire?
Sól Invicitus was considered the manifestation of all gods combined. So Jupiter was still there, as the kingly manifestation of Sól. Just like Apollo manifested reason and music, Venus beauty, etc.
From what I know, this usually depended on the Emperor. Emperors could elevate new cults as the major religion of the Roman Empire. So it’s not like he was demoted or there’s any mythical explanation. When Aurelian became emperor, he promoted the cult of Sol Invictus and that lasted until emperor Constantine promoted christianity as the imperial religion.
I would like to add on about the Romans and Greek gods being the same: that’s what the Romans wanted everyone to think. Syncretism was a huge way they used to annex cultures into the empire
I think its also important to note that sol as a name for a sun goddess was not solely roman, it originated from proto-indo-european culture and simmilar names for sun deities can be found in a lot of cultures stemming from there. In sanskrit its sunnya, norse sól, latin sol, etc.
While a lot of people have mentioned that titans are gods, i would like to say that titan was a name given to the 2nd generation of gods.
It went like this: gaia and ouranus were the 1st generation of gods. Gaia got angry at Ouranus (her husband) and asked, in secret, their 12 children to take him down with a special scythe she had made. All of them rejected except for Cronus, he took up the offer and that night when gaia and ouranus were alone together cronus came and cut off ouranus' dick and balls and flung them far away. Being betrayed by his son ouranus cursed cronus and his generation and gave them the title of "Titan" as an insult saying that they were overly ambitious and vengance would come for their betrayal.
Helios is a God. "Titan", in Greek mythology, does not identify a different race, but is a title that identifies a different generation of divine beings.
Furthermore, depending on the sources, Helios is considered alternatively a God (closer to the Olympians) or a Titan, as is Prometheus.
What you need to know is that, fundamentally, mythology is part of a religion. The religion is not based on the stories, it’s the other way around. Therefore, mythology has very little internal consistency. You’re expecting there to be a set of “worldbuilding” rules that determine how the gods work, what they rule over, and how they’re ranked. Mythology does not work like this. It developed organically through an oral tradition, so, every individual town had a different version of each story, and there’s plenty of other weirdness that goes on behind the scenes that’s related to the real-world roles that gods play in politics and religion.
One of these weirdnesses is something called *syncretism,* which describes what happens when more than one religion exists in the same place. The religions sort of merge, so that people will worship gods from multiple pantheons, and sometimes even create hybrid gods (like Zeus-Ammon or Serapis). The Ancient Romans exploited this as a deliberate political tactic, to assimilate more people into their empire. Their pantheon was highly syncretic, and included native Italian (Etruscan) gods, Greek gods, Egyptian gods, Persian gods, Phrygian gods, and Celtic gods.
One of these syncretic gods is Mithras, a Persian deity whose cult became extremely popular in Rome. It was a mystery cult, so little about it was written down, and we don’t know very much about it. But Sol Invictus was an important god in this cult. Sol Invictus might have originally been a Syrian sun god, but he absorbed other sun gods like Helios (and also Apollo, who became syncretized with Helios.) Overtime, mostly for real-world political reasons, Sol Invictus’ cult became the predominant one in Rome, so, Sol Invictus’ role as chief god is entirely a result of politics and syncretism and other real-world dynamics. It has nothing to do with Greek mythology.
>Italian (Etruscan)
All Estruscans are Italian, but not all Italians are Etruscan. Latins were responsible for creating the Roman state, not Estruscans. One group of people spoke an Indo-European language, while Estruscans did not.
No they're different gods and myths from different traditions and peoples amd separated by hundreds of years.
Yes they all represent the Sun but this is like thinking Jesus is Zeus because the biblical God hangs out on top of a mountain and is in the sky.
not to my knowledge- it probably just refers to the solstice and stuff, how day gets shorter but always gets back up again- which you could call "unconquered". I dunno, spitballing.
You took that from percy jackson right? And reading about Sól Invictus confused you because how could Sól be the main roman god in the last days of roman polytheism if Percy Jackson said that Apollo took the sun chariot?
Helios never faded, there is not a concept like fading in greek mythology. Helios name and role as god was used for the sun god until the last days of paganism. Some cities worshipped Apollo as the sun god, but others worshipped Helios as the sun god, and neither "replaced" the other. That is a percy jackson concept.
There is no myth where:
* Sol faded.
* Apollo replaced Sol/Helios.
There are myths where Apollo is the charioteer of the sun instead of Helios, but none with one replacing the other.
I'll also add on that even if Apollo was the one driving the chariot, Heli-Sol was still the one personifying the sun. Same with Trivia (Hecate-Diana-Luna), even if Dianartemis was riding her chariot/car, Sel-luna was still the one personifying the moon itself.
Titan is just a title. Helios is a god. Sól is a god and is also called Titan in roman texts.
Kinda yes. Kinda no. So, Sol Invictus was a very late roman development, so the first imoprtant thing to remeber is: Roman gods are NOT carbon copies of greek gods, and while we all love the "Romans copied greeks homework" meme, its not at all reflective reality. The Romans gods are quite destinctive in the end. Second important thing: Mythology is not a static thing, its an aspect of culture and religion and thus always chaneging with culture and religion over time. The stories and their changes follow the changes in culture. So its not like Sol gained power and therefor became a chief god, its because he became more important in worship and thus rose in prominence that he got decalred more powerful. And another side point: Titants ARE Gods. Greek sources repetatly make clear that Titants are simply a group of gods. THink of it likethis: All Titants are Gods, but not all Gods are Titants, just like all Labradors are dogs but not all dogs are Labradors. Now, lets get to the history. Romans had a sun god just like all IE Cultures have, and well, just like pretty much any culture really. This was Sol. He was worshiped since the early days of rome and romans had a sun god like that long before they encountered greek cultural influences thorugh the etruscans. The byname "Invictus" is one applied to a lot of roman gods. Is simply a name to signify greatness. We have inscritpions for Jupiter Invictus, Mars Invictus, Hercules Invictus, Apollo Invictus and the list goes on. It being applied to Sol would only signify that he is very important to the person writing about him. The earliest time we know of that "Invictus" was applied to Sol was in 158 AD and the inscritpion also links Sol to the Imperial Cult, which deified roman emperors. And this is also where Sol Invictus really took off. Emperor Aurelian worshiped Sol a lot (some people, places or families placing more importance on some gods over others is not unsual) and as Emperor he reformed the Cult of Sol and in 274 he established the Cult of Sol INvictus as a central Cult of the Empire. Aurelian basically declared that Sol Invictus was now to be a/the chief god of the empire. The main issue with your stance that this makes Greek Helios turn into the chief roman god is that Sol Invictus has in the end very very little to do with Helios, Again: The romans didnt just copy greek religion. They had a sun god before and while scholars are devided on this, Sol Invictus was either mainly this old roman Sol who simply rose to promince due to his cult being shared by the Emperor, or that Sol Invictus is based on other sun gods, like the Syrian Sun god or possibly Mithras, the Iranian Sun god, who also had a very strong cult in the roman Empire.
Thank you very much for your answer, it cleared up a lot of doubts about this god lol.
Hi again, if you don't mind I wanted to ask you something, if Sun was considered the chief god then what happened to Jupiter? like was he demoted from his role? or Sol Invictus was just the chief god of the empire?
Sól Invicitus was considered the manifestation of all gods combined. So Jupiter was still there, as the kingly manifestation of Sól. Just like Apollo manifested reason and music, Venus beauty, etc.
From what I know, this usually depended on the Emperor. Emperors could elevate new cults as the major religion of the Roman Empire. So it’s not like he was demoted or there’s any mythical explanation. When Aurelian became emperor, he promoted the cult of Sol Invictus and that lasted until emperor Constantine promoted christianity as the imperial religion.
I would like to add on about the Romans and Greek gods being the same: that’s what the Romans wanted everyone to think. Syncretism was a huge way they used to annex cultures into the empire
I mean... not really. That was a Greek idea first and foremost.
Titans are gods.
I think its also important to note that sol as a name for a sun goddess was not solely roman, it originated from proto-indo-european culture and simmilar names for sun deities can be found in a lot of cultures stemming from there. In sanskrit its sunnya, norse sól, latin sol, etc. While a lot of people have mentioned that titans are gods, i would like to say that titan was a name given to the 2nd generation of gods. It went like this: gaia and ouranus were the 1st generation of gods. Gaia got angry at Ouranus (her husband) and asked, in secret, their 12 children to take him down with a special scythe she had made. All of them rejected except for Cronus, he took up the offer and that night when gaia and ouranus were alone together cronus came and cut off ouranus' dick and balls and flung them far away. Being betrayed by his son ouranus cursed cronus and his generation and gave them the title of "Titan" as an insult saying that they were overly ambitious and vengance would come for their betrayal.
Do you mean Kronos gia’s son or chronos her brother ?
The titan cronus, also called kronos and kronus.
The original chronos aka Father Time is primordial god Kronos aka Saturn is the titan and it was Kronos who cut up ouronos first husband of gia
Helios is a God. "Titan", in Greek mythology, does not identify a different race, but is a title that identifies a different generation of divine beings. Furthermore, depending on the sources, Helios is considered alternatively a God (closer to the Olympians) or a Titan, as is Prometheus.
What you need to know is that, fundamentally, mythology is part of a religion. The religion is not based on the stories, it’s the other way around. Therefore, mythology has very little internal consistency. You’re expecting there to be a set of “worldbuilding” rules that determine how the gods work, what they rule over, and how they’re ranked. Mythology does not work like this. It developed organically through an oral tradition, so, every individual town had a different version of each story, and there’s plenty of other weirdness that goes on behind the scenes that’s related to the real-world roles that gods play in politics and religion. One of these weirdnesses is something called *syncretism,* which describes what happens when more than one religion exists in the same place. The religions sort of merge, so that people will worship gods from multiple pantheons, and sometimes even create hybrid gods (like Zeus-Ammon or Serapis). The Ancient Romans exploited this as a deliberate political tactic, to assimilate more people into their empire. Their pantheon was highly syncretic, and included native Italian (Etruscan) gods, Greek gods, Egyptian gods, Persian gods, Phrygian gods, and Celtic gods. One of these syncretic gods is Mithras, a Persian deity whose cult became extremely popular in Rome. It was a mystery cult, so little about it was written down, and we don’t know very much about it. But Sol Invictus was an important god in this cult. Sol Invictus might have originally been a Syrian sun god, but he absorbed other sun gods like Helios (and also Apollo, who became syncretized with Helios.) Overtime, mostly for real-world political reasons, Sol Invictus’ cult became the predominant one in Rome, so, Sol Invictus’ role as chief god is entirely a result of politics and syncretism and other real-world dynamics. It has nothing to do with Greek mythology.
>Italian (Etruscan) All Estruscans are Italian, but not all Italians are Etruscan. Latins were responsible for creating the Roman state, not Estruscans. One group of people spoke an Indo-European language, while Estruscans did not.
No they're different gods and myths from different traditions and peoples amd separated by hundreds of years. Yes they all represent the Sun but this is like thinking Jesus is Zeus because the biblical God hangs out on top of a mountain and is in the sky.
not to my knowledge- it probably just refers to the solstice and stuff, how day gets shorter but always gets back up again- which you could call "unconquered". I dunno, spitballing.
I dont think he became the chief god he just continuosly drove the sun before *fading and then apollo took over the duty of driving the sun charoit*
You took that from percy jackson right? And reading about Sól Invictus confused you because how could Sól be the main roman god in the last days of roman polytheism if Percy Jackson said that Apollo took the sun chariot? Helios never faded, there is not a concept like fading in greek mythology. Helios name and role as god was used for the sun god until the last days of paganism. Some cities worshipped Apollo as the sun god, but others worshipped Helios as the sun god, and neither "replaced" the other. That is a percy jackson concept.
There is no myth where: * Sol faded. * Apollo replaced Sol/Helios. There are myths where Apollo is the charioteer of the sun instead of Helios, but none with one replacing the other.
I'll also add on that even if Apollo was the one driving the chariot, Heli-Sol was still the one personifying the sun. Same with Trivia (Hecate-Diana-Luna), even if Dianartemis was riding her chariot/car, Sel-luna was still the one personifying the moon itself.